2008-09 Rink Wrap Wrap
by J.P. on Jun 29, 2009 7:00 AM EDT
in Rink Wraps
110 comments
Another year gone by, another round of Rink Wraps complete, and another year of Alex Ovechkin exceeding expectations.
All the votes - more than 16,000 of them - have been tallied, and here are your final ratings for the 2008-09 Caps (and for more math-y goodness on the voting, check out fnralch's FanPost):
The bars in black represent the five-to-six range of "as expected," with the green and red indicating the unexpected, both good and bad.
Congrats go out to Michael Nylander for setting a new low, breaking Tomas Fleischmann's mark of 4.14 from last year, and to John Erskine, Flash and Milan Jurcina for delivering so little a season ago that their performances this year provided them with the biggest gains in this ratings racket (other than Brian Pothier, that is, whose mere ability to lace 'em up and contribute blew all expectations out of the water). On the flip side, Nyls, Shaone Morrisonn, Sergei Fedorov, Donald Brashear, Jeff Schultz and Chris Clark all saw big drops in their scores.
Oh, and the coach? The scoring system was a little different for him (i.e. based purely on performance), and he came in with an impressive 7.74.
It's somewhat ironic that on an individual level, well over half of the players rated here exceeded expectations (and only a half-dozen played below their anticipated level of performance), and yet the team as a whole probably fell short of where we'd have hoped they'd be at the outset of the season. One thing is for certain - another campaign with a similar end result and there will be a lot less green on next year's version of the chart above.
So what jumps out at you? Any surprises? With whose score do you most disagree?
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Its a post from me, so its pretty obvious, how on earth do you rate T.Poti ahead of J.Schultz? I can not figure it out, its flat out mind boggling.
by JSchon on Jun 29, 2009 7:10 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Agreed. I was just blown away by the way fans so underappreciate Schultz.. Among Caps defensemen, Sarge has the second highest +/-, the third highest TOI average while taking the fewest penalties and was two points behind Jurcina for second in defense scoring despite playing 15 fewer games. You watch, they’ll end up trading him and he’ll go on to play top four minutes for the next 15 years.
by b.orr4 on Jun 29, 2009 9:13 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Schultz is 23, Poti is a 10 year vet. Schultz makes $.735M, Poti makes $3.5M. The overwhelming higher expectations have to squarely fall on Poti’s shoulders. If you want to argue that Poti’s stats are slightly better than Schultz, fine I won’t argue, but expectation wise Poti had one of the worst seasons by any cap not named Clark, Nylander or Theodore. In fact, Poti’s stint with the Caps has been an outright major disappointment.
by JSchon on Jun 29, 2009 9:20 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think the fact that Poti’s role has changed so drastically in DC (i.e. that he no longer sees much powerplay time) is giving him underwhelming numbers. He’s been asked to primarily play defense, and he’s done a pretty good job at that.
by David M. Getz on Jun 29, 2009 9:22 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fine. The guy is playing a different because of Green. One guy stepped up and the other didn’t. Poti is the other guy, that other guy is making a lot of money to do something a lot of guys could do for less. So, the reason he is here now has changed but that was not why we brought him here.
So, if we sign Nik Antropov, just for laughs, as our 2nd C at $2.5M for 3 years, but he ends up in year 2 as a 4th line checker, but a good one because Gustafsson outplays him at age 23, thats ok?
I say failure.
by JSchon on Jun 29, 2009 9:29 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So, if we sign Nik Antropov, just for laughs, as our 2nd C at $2.5M for 3 years, but he ends up in year 2 as a 4th line checker, but a good one because Gustafsson outplays him at age 23, thats ok?
That’s not the same scenario. The way the Capitals structure their powerplay, there’s only going to be one defenseman out for the first unit and for the majority of it. That defenseman now is Mike Green who is by far and bar none the best offensive defenseman in the NHL. He scored 61% more often than the next guy!
So if the Capitals were to sign Antropov, to only play one center on the first powerplay unit, and Anton Gustafsson wound up scoring 61% more goals than anyone else in the NHL (in the 80-85 range), yeah, I wouldn’t fault him for being moved down the depth chart.
by David M. Getz on Jun 29, 2009 9:40 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It is apparent that I have a serious issue with Poti. I need help. I see all your points and most of them make sense, but I can’t forget why he was brought here to do and at what cost. While a guy like Johnny Oduya won’t get $3.5M per year and is far more effective as a defensive defensemen that Poti will ever be.
by JSchon on Jun 29, 2009 9:44 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I am a huge Poti fan. I believe the team is much better with Poti in the lineup than without. He is flat-out a better defenseman than Schultz right now (as should be expected given their career tracks — that’s nothing against Schultz).
They don’t need offense from Poti, though a little more (any!) would be nice. They need a solid, veteran defender who can shut things down. He’s adjusted his game to become that and done far, far better than I expected from watching his pre-Caps career. We all keep talking about people stepping out of their “comfort zone.” Well, Poti saw what the team had in Mike Green (offense) and what they didn’t have in absolutely anyone else (shutdown D) and he’s stepped into that role. He’s still not perfect for it, but in my world, he gets a lot of credit for being as effective as he has been. Definitely exceeding my expectations for him in that role.
by Gould Old Days on Jun 29, 2009 9:30 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And here are the key numbers to back it up, in my mind: Tom Poti faced the highest quality of competition of any regular on the team. His role was simply to get out there when the other team’s best players were out there and stop goals.
Without Tom Poti, I’m not sure the Caps make the playoffs. Who else can do that on this team?
by Gould Old Days on Jun 29, 2009 9:34 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think the Caps still make the playoffs without Poti, but I agree on your other points, that they’re a better team with him in the line-up and that he’s changed his game to meet the needs of the team and done so quite well.
And he rocks the double black eye look.
by RedBirdie on Jun 29, 2009 9:36 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Tom Poti is not the reason we made the playoffs. The are so many holes in that statement, I wouldn’t know where to start my argument.
by JSchon on Jun 29, 2009 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I stand by what I said. Who on the team right now can fill that role? I’m a Schultz fan, but he ain’t ready for that pressure. Who on the team can provide a veteran presence on the back line? There’s only one guy.
If the Caps didn’t have Poti, they’d have to trade for a veteran defenseman or they’d be in real trouble.
by Gould Old Days on Jun 29, 2009 3:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And we shouldn’t forget, Poti missed 30 games last season and played a good number of games hurt. I don’t have a problem with Poti’s play. He’s kind of reinvented himself as a defensive defenseman who really bolstered the PK when he was on the ice. My problem is with the low marks Schultz received. They’re just totally unfounded in my view.
by b.orr4 on Jun 29, 2009 9:36 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think my issue is also the blasting that Schultz gets. I think Poti is overpaid, but his salary was agreed upon with him being a puck mover, which he was. I just think we got a injury prone false bill of goods.
by JSchon on Jun 29, 2009 9:39 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Schultz def should be in the 6-7 range. Poor guy is the Rodney Dangerfield of the Caps…
by wittcap79 on Jun 29, 2009 9:46 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think the interesting question when it comes to Schultz is “If the team decides his ribs are hurting him too much and he never plays Game One against New York and hence never gets beaten by Dubinsky, what’s his score?”
I’d wager it’s at least half a point higher.
by David M. Getz on Jun 29, 2009 9:47 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Depends on who you ask, but very likely. We all remember the moset recent experience. i.e. the playoffs, and it seems to have colored a lot of votes, both up (Steckel) and down (Schultz).
"It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees." - Delores Ibarruri
by gotsparkly on Jun 29, 2009 9:50 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
OK, everyone forget about Schultz in the playoffs, and re-vote, kidding.
by JSchon on Jun 29, 2009 9:51 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is an interesting discussion but it just causes me to lament what might have been. If only Schultz hadn’t gotten hurt, if only Green wasn’t a shadow of his former self, etc. Maybe then we would have had an answer for that guy parked next to the net and banging in goals. Alas, we’re reduced to discussing whether their Rink Wrap ratings are too high or too low.
by Lisita on Jun 29, 2009 9:57 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think the interesting question when it comes to Schultz is "If the team decides his ribs are hurting him too much and he never plays Game One against New York and hence never gets beaten by Dubinsky, what’s his score?"
Or if he’s 6’3" instead of 6’6, does he not stand out like Big Bird and not get noticed as much for his mistakes? Jeff’s size ultimately may be his biggest advantage, but right now it just makes him look overly gawky and clumsy.
by b.orr4 on Jun 29, 2009 10:14 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If he’s 3 inches shorter does he have to live up to the uninformed expectations of fans that assume because you are tall you need to hit everything that moves? Schultz’s reach is his biggest asset (does anyone besides DMG remember how well he matches up against Malkin?) but for now his size is the biggest reason he gets hated on.
by Fehr and Balanced on Jun 29, 2009 5:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah, i do think schultz gets more crap than he deserves at times – he does stand out, and therefore when he makes a mistake, that mistake stands out as well.
by kellobellow on Jun 29, 2009 6:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Tom Poti wasn’t signed for his defense, however, and I’d say you are being a little to kind rating it “pretty good”. I’d call him fair at best. This is why I’ve been advocating trading him to a team in search of that veteran PP QB presence. From what I watched of Tom Poti I can honestly say that net/net I’d just as soon ride with Sloan.
Russian Machine Never Breaks
by macvechkin on Jun 29, 2009 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’ll have to admit that I’m a bit surprised at how high both Erskine and Jurcina are. Now, I’ll admit they both had fantastic post-season play, but I felt they were just mediocre at best during the regular season. Hopefully they can build upon the playoffs and come out hard during the regular season, starting in October and continuing all the way through the end of the playoffs (hopefully June!).
I need 100% of you guys to give 110% 100% of the time.
by capsfan4life on Jun 29, 2009 7:10 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Juice is a little low. Flash is little low. Not necessarily in score but where they rank on the totem pole.
by JSchon on Jun 29, 2009 7:11 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I like Stecks, but that near-8 is a little high.
by Bald Pollack on Jun 29, 2009 7:38 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I disagree. This is based on potential, and he’s always been seen as an energy 4th line guy – nothing more. He’s a great penalty killer, and when he found his stride in the playoffs with Laich & Bradley, he deserved every tenth of that score.
by :hsughrofl: on Jun 29, 2009 8:15 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
OK, to clarify, as one who’s stated he’d be a good third line center choice, I think the 8 is a little high.
by Bald Pollack on Jun 29, 2009 8:20 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Team vs. individuals
The Stanley Cup is a team award, not an individual award. I don’t find it especially odd for individuals to get higher than expected and the team to fall short, because we’ve commented many times that it looks like a lot of times they’re a bunch of individuals on the ice as opposed to a team, and that teamwork is sometimes an issue.
Also, we hoped they’d win the Stanley. We hope that every year. Does that mean we necessarily expect it? I don’t think so – I know I wasn’t necessarily expecting the hardware this year, and since the scores are relative to expectations, not hopes, it still isn’t inconsistent with itself.
I’d say you’re right. Next year, expectations are higher. Much higher.
"It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees." - Delores Ibarruri
by gotsparkly on Jun 29, 2009 7:45 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
The whole was less than the sum of its parts in the end.
Ovechkin….big numbers
Green…record-setting numbers
Backstrom…improvement
Semin…most prolific offensive player in the league on a per-game basis
Theodore…had his moments
Laich…solid numbers
etc., etc.
Look at any one part, and you could say, “good job.” Look at the whole, and you’d probably say something else.
If you've read this far...seek help.
by ThePeerless on Jun 29, 2009 8:03 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Why would you say something else? It was a fantastic season. Ended a little earlier than I would have hoped, but no earlier than I expected. Team wasn’t fully baked yet. Even next year I don’t think they should be the Stanley Cup favorites.
I look at the whole and say “good job”
by Gould Old Days on Jun 29, 2009 9:38 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
They’d better be a favorite soon. The window will start to close on this group of Capitals sooner than one might think.
If you've read this far...seek help.
by ThePeerless on Jun 29, 2009 9:50 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So true. In 1992, The Penguins had just won their second consecutive Cup. Lemieux was 26, Jagr was 20. Everyone envisioned several more championships coming their way. They never won another. That’s why I firmly believe McPhee has to make the really bold move of going for a Cup this year. You just never know when that window will close.
by b.orr4 on Jun 29, 2009 10:20 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Winning 1 first certainly allows for easier breathing. I agree we need to get one under our belt and you don’t do it by being patient 100% of the time.
by JSchon on Jun 29, 2009 10:24 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Actually I would say expectations were low-er, but not many could have envisioned him being the disaster he was. :-)
Russian Machine Never Breaks
by macvechkin on Jun 29, 2009 3:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I disagree with that. He had a good year before getting hurt last year. I expected him to come in and be a decent #3 center when he was called upon for duty. And he wasn’t. He really came in WAY below expectations.
by DrinkingPartner on Jun 29, 2009 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Buy-out window about to close
LOL
The window is about to close on any buy-out possibility. Unless there is a KHL/trade miracle, looks like Michael will be a Cap come October
I find sometimes it's easy to be myself
sometimes I find it's better to be somebody else
by Fauxrumors on Jun 29, 2009 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think Fehr’s is low. 5.37 is the lower end of more or less meeting expectations, but the guys put up goals and points at a higher rate than almost anyone else on the team and played very good defense despite playing with worse teammates than most guys on the team and against better opponents than most guys on the team. That’s way ahead of what I would have expected.
I’m also a little surprised Ovechkin was the highest. I mean, he had a great year, but we expect that from him. Mike Green had a historically great year. To me he was far and away the guy who exceeded expectations the most.
by David M. Getz on Jun 29, 2009 9:03 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
But but but … Mike Green can’t play defense! </snark>
"It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees." - Delores Ibarruri
by gotsparkly on Jun 29, 2009 9:10 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I completely agree on all of your points.
by JSchon on Jun 29, 2009 9:14 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, when the voting was going on, my thought was “you people really didn’t expect Ovie to have the year he did?” Based on the voting rules (i;e, potential and expectations), he did what he was supposed to, and earned about a 6, maybe a 7. Green definitely reached his potential and exceeded expectations.
by Baildog on Jun 29, 2009 9:27 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Many of us had grade inflation, and admitted it. “I expect a Hart season from Ovechkin, but it is ridiculous to expect that of anyone, so if he pulls it off I’m going to give him more than just a 6”
by Gould Old Days on Jun 29, 2009 9:39 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
THANK YOU, DMG
I voted Ovie a 6—goals and points were what I expected, thought the giveaways and wrister-whiffs were mildly disconcerting, stepped up nicely in the playoffs. How anyone could be surprised by his 2009 performance is beyond me.
I’d fight you on Greenie being far and away the biggest surprise—Backstrom wasn’t far behind. Did you see him making the leap into top ten scorer so soon? I didn’t.
by bilspacecadet on Jun 29, 2009 1:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’d fight you on Greenie being far and away the biggest surprise—Backstrom wasn’t far behind. Did you see him making the leap into top ten scorer so soon? I didn’t.
I didn’t, but if you’d asked me at the beginning of the year if I thought it was more likely Backstrom would be in the top ten in scoring or Mike Green would tie for the 7th best (defenseman) goals-per-game average in the history of the NHL and become only the seventh defenseman to score thirty goals, I would have picked the first one without a whole lot of hesitation.
by David M. Getz on Jun 29, 2009 2:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
…or Mike Green would tie for the 7th best (defenseman) goals-per-game average in the history of the NHL and become only the seventh defenseman to score thirty goals in a season where he suffered a major shoulder injury and missed 14 games
fixed it :) What Green did was nuts, absolutely nuts, and I don’t know if we’ll ever see another season like that by a D-man any time soon. (although, Hockey Gods, another one out of Green next season would be greatly appreciated. After what you put us through with the Flightless Fowl, its the least you could do)
by RedBirdie on Jun 29, 2009 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And I would guess, he’s also the first of those seven to not be selected to the all-star game in the same season he accomplished those feats. Now that’s insane.
by b.orr4 on Jun 29, 2009 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
that still blows my mind that he didn’t even make the team as a reserve.
Being named first-team at the awards ceremony, as lovely and nice and prestigious as it is, just doesn’t quite make up for such a huge snub.
and in all of that, don’t forget, he set a new record for goals scored by a defenseman in consecutive games. I still get chills thinking about the fact that I witnessed one of the historically great seasons by an individual.
by RedBirdie on Jun 29, 2009 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
As I said on FTR, the league might throw us a bone with the draft, but any bone from the league isn’t one I want.
"It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees." - Delores Ibarruri
by gotsparkly on Jun 29, 2009 4:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Goals and Points maybe have been what you expected, but relative to the rest of the league they were probably more impressive than last year.
Russian Machine Never Breaks
by macvechkin on Jun 29, 2009 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So what jumps out at you?
Only that our expectations are perennially low. This is the nature of a Caps’ fan: bemused and mildly surprised by seeing genuinely good hockey and by owning quality players that deliver it.
by Uncle C on Jun 29, 2009 9:18 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
My expectations are as follows.
Compete for SC every year for the next 12, win 2 or 3.
by JSchon on Jun 29, 2009 9:21 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I think that’s fair. High, but not unfair. This team, once fully baked, is capable of that.
"It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees." - Delores Ibarruri
by gotsparkly on Jun 29, 2009 9:49 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ovechkin is a once in a lifetime talent for a team, city, fanbase etc… He, in my opinion has a 12 year shelf life. We better make the most of it. We are NOT that far away now.
by JSchon on Jun 29, 2009 10:12 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
that window doesn't stay open long
If you've read this far...seek help.
by ThePeerless on Jun 29, 2009 11:47 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It really all depends on the development of some players, and the decisions that the front office makes. If Varly or Neuvy or both dont pan out, we might not be as set for as long as you think. If GMGM lets go of NickyB instead of Semin, or both (I would cry…..) then we also wont be competitive for that long. Freak injuries also happen. One dirty player who decides OV has celebrated one too many times and knocks him out, god forbid, and we need to find a new star. You really cant expect to be competitive for 12-13 years with everything that could possibly happen in this league. Unless, of course, youre detroit :P
by amkcaps on Jun 29, 2009 10:14 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good grief, thats a lot of negatives happening to 1 organization. The VC center could also implode and Cher could also sing the national anthem.
by JSchon on Jun 29, 2009 10:21 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Cher could also sing the national anthem
That will be the day I give up my tickets!
by RedBirdie on Jun 29, 2009 10:40 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hell, and the Verizon Center ice, could freeze over.
by Stormblue on Jun 29, 2009 2:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wow, aren’t we just the negative bunch now. Some of you have been Caps fans for too long.
"It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees." - Delores Ibarruri
by gotsparkly on Jun 29, 2009 10:24 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You hit the nail right on the head. Just kidding, im just trying to be semi-realistic. I guess it was a little exxagerated. Sorry for seeming like a negative nancy :-P
by amkcaps on Jun 29, 2009 11:37 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, there’s being realistic and there’s being a pessimist, and the lines can get kind of blurry. :)
"It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees." - Delores Ibarruri
by gotsparkly on Jun 29, 2009 1:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
As the ratings are based on final result vs. initial expectations, I have to say that I’m little surprised by Jose Theodore’s numbers. I think we all knew what we were getting with Theo, and he did manage to have a good enough regular season to keep us near the top of the conference the entire time. His ability to play well enough was indeed a question going into the playoffs, but it was a question that was folks were asking in October. He did start the season a little shaky and it looked like he and Johnson were going to battle it out all year, but he definitely stepped up and took charge when Johnson went down and we needed him to play everyday.
I probably would have ranked Theodore a point or two higher only because he didn’t really disappoint me based on what I expected him to do.
I also really wish I could rank Clark higher, and could really only do so because his lack of production was most likely caused by injury, but you can’t deny that this season was a disappointing one for our captain—it’s really hard to see his name near the bottom of that list.
by PaintDrinkingPete on Jun 29, 2009 9:34 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Eh, on Theo. We needed average goaltending, but I’d say what we got from him, minus that stretch in Dec/Jan, was slightly below average.
Those #‘s don’t scream average goaltending to me.
He got what he deserved.
by wittcap79 on Jun 29, 2009 9:54 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good point—although you probably have to take a look at the entire defense when you look at some numbers. Still, he played well enough to win games with this team. I do feel that the Caps wouldn’t have made it past the first round if he started every game against the Rangers.
by PaintDrinkingPete on Jun 29, 2009 12:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
LOL, sure; well enough. Of course when the guys in front of you average 3.27 G/Gm it’s pretty easy to be good enough.
by wittcap79 on Jun 29, 2009 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Is anyone worried that McPhee is saying...
“We feel Brooks Laich can play [second-line center], and he might be able to play it very well,” McPhee said. “He did it a lot last year when Sergei was injured.”
McPhee added: “Chris Clark scored 30 goals [as a first-line right wing] a couple of years ago. We’ve got guys internally who can do it. We’ll just see what’s out there. If there’s a player out there that can help our club, we’ll be interested. Just don’t expect us to go out and commit to a big or long-term deal in free agency. We’ve seen that movie before.”
If we don’t fill these rolls correctly I don’t see the team getting past the 2nd round.
by zephyr on Jun 29, 2009 11:24 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Clark has demonstrated an ability to be a goal-scorer on this team, with less talent. The wild car is, of course, his health — can he be the player after the injuries that he was before them? As for Laich, he has not demonstrated an ability to be the second line center on a consistent basis. I have my doubts that he has the playmaking skill the position seems to require.
If you've read this far...seek help.
by ThePeerless on Jun 29, 2009 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree that Clark may be able to fill that 1st line right wing but even with all my love for Laich I agree that it’s very doubtful he is the 2nd line center the team needs.
by zephyr on Jun 29, 2009 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Clark is 2 years removed from that 30 goal season, which was 50% more goals than his best season and and almost 2x his 82-game career rate. Expecting more than 10-15 out of him, even with Ovie and Backs. I think you’re getting Kozlov’s numbers with more PIMs and fewer assists, and I don’t think he makes that line particularly better.
I think going into the season with him as RW1 is a mistake, but I’d really like to be proven wrong.
-d
by meep_42 on Jun 29, 2009 1:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m not counting on him filling the roll but I think he might be able to.
by zephyr on Jun 29, 2009 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Totally agree.
Clark had one, fluky year, playing with Ovechkin. Even if he was healthy, he wouldn’t replicate that season.
Russian Machine Never Breaks
by macvechkin on Jun 29, 2009 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t think it was a fluke at all. He probably wouldn’t put up 30+ goals, but the season before he put up 20G 19A. I’d be fine with that, essentially replicating Kozlov + a little grit.
by Yoshietree on Jun 29, 2009 5:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
what he doesn’t have going for him is that he’s 33 1/2 at the start of next season and two injury plagued years removed from that season. he might add grit, but skill wise he doesn’t essentially replace kozlov. i guess i could live with giving him a try if he could chip in 20 and not take the bone headed penalties i saw him take when he did play.
Russian Machine Never Breaks
by macvechkin on Jun 30, 2009 2:07 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
not take the bone headed penalties i saw him take when he did play.
No arguments here if you’re talking about playoffs. I really have no idea what he’s capable of, but if he comes into camp close to 100% I would certainly give him the opportunity to play himself off of the line. Even though the team had a lack of talent during his 20 and 30 goal campaigns…he still had to show some element of chemistry with OV and he’s obvioulsy willing to go to the net, which intrigues me as that’s something OV and Backs have never had on their line.
by Yoshietree on Jun 30, 2009 8:21 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It doesn’t concern me a bit. McPhee’s going to say he’s comfortable with what the team has now because if he says otherwise it (1) undermines the confidence of the players and (2) sends the message out that Washington has some really significant holes they need to fill, which you want to deny as much as possible.
by David M. Getz on Jun 29, 2009 12:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Besides, who says they need it right now? That kind of talent comes cheaper at the trade deadline, you know …
"It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees." - Delores Ibarruri
by gotsparkly on Jun 29, 2009 1:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I actually think the trade deadline is one of the most over-inflated times of the year. You are going to overpay for almost every player you pick up at the trade deadline so you really would rather fill those holes earlier in the year. But since we have so many guys from Hershey that need a legitimate shot I’d be happier letting them try to win the spot before just going out and trading for a veteran to do that.
by Fehr and Balanced on Jun 29, 2009 5:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I actually think the trade deadline is one of the most over-inflated times of the year. You are going to overpay for almost every player you pick up at the trade deadline so you really would rather fill those holes earlier in the year.
I tend to agree. That’s when teams get desperate and do stupid things. Couple that with the fact that the salary cap (and the three point game) have increased parity and you’re probably looking at another situation where there are seven sellers at twenty-three buyers at the deadline.
by David M. Getz on Jun 29, 2009 5:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And by down playing the needs he maintains a better bargaining position. If he starts off with “We are F’d with our 2C and 1RW…” then other teams are going to push harder for more in return. Maintaining bargaining position is a huge factor in pulling off a successful trade (See: Dany Heatley).
by Fehr and Balanced on Jun 29, 2009 5:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It’s too early to worry yet.
"It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees." - Delores Ibarruri
by gotsparkly on Jun 29, 2009 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
rec’d as sensible
from the house that Red Jesus built
by bigonetimer on Jun 29, 2009 2:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That’s just McPhee speak so the other GMs won’t try and rob him when he starts talking trade. If Ted’s saying we need a #2 center and a Stay at Home defenseman, you know he’s hearing that from his GM. I honestly doubt the Caps are going into camp with both Laich as the #2 center and Clark on the top line. Defense might be a different story.
by b.orr4 on Jun 29, 2009 11:54 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
A theory to revisit: build the offense now, get your S@H defenseman at the deadline.
And there is no way I can see Brooks Laich at 2C long term. Rather it be Steckel who gets a look there in camp anyway, just to see, if nothing is done…
from the house that Red Jesus built
by bigonetimer on Jun 29, 2009 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Laich would be a better 2nd line center than Steckel. That’s still not saying much though.
by zephyr on Jun 29, 2009 3:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think Laich’s game is better suited for the wing; he’s fine as a center but not a #2. I think Steckel skates well enough, and as long as he can handle the extra 4-5 minutes and still be effective as a PK’er he could be very serviceable, allowing Boyd to step into the checking center.
And then you have Circles…
from the house that Red Jesus built
by bigonetimer on Jun 29, 2009 4:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, James Mirtle just posted a list of the UFA forwards out there. Might be a list to consider there for entertainment value.
One jumped out at me for a good chuckle – Robert Lang is available, at a 4.0 salary this season. Not sure we could afford it realistically, but the idea tickles the part of me that appreciates coming full circle.
"It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees." - Delores Ibarruri
by gotsparkly on Jun 29, 2009 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Too bad he’s missing a major tendon in his leg.
by Mobsky on Jun 30, 2009 12:52 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Looks like any big trades will take a back seat to UFA’s for the next few days. Maybe when that dust setles this weekend we might see trade winds pick up again?
I find sometimes it's easy to be myself
sometimes I find it's better to be somebody else
by Fauxrumors on Jun 29, 2009 1:17 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Boy I hope some GM’s is like “man I didnt get my hat in that AWESOME Pronger trade, man he was so cheap… I guess I’ll go to the next best thing… Mr. Michael Nylander I wonder if I need to give anything up for him.”
by MetalCap on Jun 29, 2009 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That salary is standing in the way of us and a real shot at a Cup this year
Honestly, if George and Bruce can convince Nyls to move, they deserve an extension and bonus on the spot.
from the house that Red Jesus built
by bigonetimer on Jun 29, 2009 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don’t count your chickens yet – the eggs haven’t even all been laid yet. I think it’s both premature and a little bit doomful to say we won’t win a Cup unless we move Nylander.
"It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees." - Delores Ibarruri
by gotsparkly on Jun 29, 2009 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
hey, now!! I never said ‘we won’t win one unless we move him.’ : )
from the house that Red Jesus built
by bigonetimer on Jun 30, 2009 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
There would be no shortage of Caps fans willing to pack up his stuff and drive him to the airport for free! LOL
I find sometimes it's easy to be myself
sometimes I find it's better to be somebody else
by Fauxrumors on Jun 29, 2009 1:27 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Just wondering
What exactly were the expectations for Mike Green if 30 goals and being a finalist for the Norris get you an 8.3?
Russian Machine Never Breaks
by macvechkin on Jun 29, 2009 3:46 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I think how Green played in the playoffs affected how people viewed him when it came time to vote.
by RedBirdie on Jun 29, 2009 3:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
probably....
Yet 1-8-9 in 14 games (4th on team) isn’t exactly wretched for a guy who was falling apart physically.
Russian Machine Never Breaks
by macvechkin on Jun 29, 2009 4:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
no, its not. But expectations were astronomically high.
by RedBirdie on Jun 29, 2009 4:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, your best players need to be your best players and he wasn’t good enough.
by zephyr on Jun 30, 2009 1:18 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No but him having the worst +/- (in the playoffs) on the team doesn’t help matters…
http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats.htm?fetchKey=20093WASSASAll&sort=plusMinus&viewName=summary
by Yoshietree on Jun 29, 2009 5:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
mike green exceeded all expectations, even astronomical ones, based on his regular season. if you are going to downgrade him because he went -5 in the last four playoff games, with a bum shoulder requiring surgery, some sort of virus and his goaltender showing his age…then i see no point to the exercise.
Russian Machine Never Breaks
by macvechkin on Jun 30, 2009 2:16 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Personally, his playoff performance did not bring his score down. But if you read above, you’ll notice it was in response to the fact his playoff performance affected how people viewed him when time to vote.
If you can’t recognize how poorly Green played in the playoffs, injury or no injury, then you’re right, there is no point to the exercise.
by Yoshietree on Jun 30, 2009 8:25 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I downgraded him on the playoffs. His injury was in his shoulder, not his brain. He didn’t have to be the same Mike Green we saw all season but he made some terrible decisions that led to goals against in the PIT series. Since every game was pretty close, except game 7, those little mental mistakes very well could have cost us games and the series.
by Fehr and Balanced on Jun 30, 2009 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
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Southeast Standings
| GP | W | L | OTL | PT | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
Washington
|
22 | 13 | 5 | 4 | 30 |
|
Tampa Bay
|
19 | 8 | 4 | 7 | 23 |
|
Atlanta
|
18 | 10 | 6 | 2 | 22 |
|
Florida
|
20 | 9 | 9 | 2 | 20 |
|
Carolina
|
21 | 4 | 12 | 5 | 13 |
(updated 11.21.2009 at 8:36 AM EST)
Certain photos copyright © 2009 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
