Saturday Caps Clips
by EmilyB on Jul 30, 2011 9:09 AM EDT
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PrintYour savory Saturday brunch links:
- So Tomas Vokoun could be kinda good in Washington. Like, shiny-trophy-hoisting kinda good... [RMNB]
- ...or not. Thank goodness this is the last one. [Puck Daddy]
- Consistent Mike Knuble is consistent. And will play his 1,000th game sometime this season. [Capitals Overtime]
- The Hershey Bears have re-signed Joel Rechlicz and his fists of fury. Which possibly means D.J. King keeps his roster slot in DC. [Lebanon Daily News]
- The NHL draft class of 2011 is so six weeks ago. The 2012 draft class? Let's just say that teams that hold potential lottery picks and like offensively talented Russians are paying close attention. [Dobber Hockey]
- "...when Americans start to get good at something they take over. So if I’m a Canadian I’m watching out." [CSN Washington (Raby)]
- Alex Ovechkin plays hockey like he's a kid in a candy store. So it seems right that he's now a face on a candy bar. [@brettleonhardt, Alex Ovetjkin, RMNB, Mr. Big on Facebook]
- What's better than beer and Caps hockey? A news aggregator that covers beer, and Caps hockey. [The Driveway Beers Daily]
- Congrats to Peerless and the cousins on the occasion of their sixth blogiversary. Keep on keeping on. [The Peerless Prognisticator]
- Finally, John Carlson is "pretty pumped" to get to meet (and maybe play with) his boyhood hero Nomar Garciaparra at that charity soccer match tomorrow. [NHL.com (Masisak), Celebrity Soccer Challenge]
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I can see guys like Thomas, Rinne, Miller and Lundqvist being ranked ahead of Vokoun. Maybe even Fleury and Luongo. But I could easily take issue with Niemi, Brodeur, Kiprusoff, Bryzgalov,Cam Ward and Carey Price being higher on the Puck Daddy list. Obiously career-wise, Vokoun isn’t in the same conversation as Brodeur, but Marty isn’t the guy he was 5 years ago. Niemi? Sorry, I’ll take Vokoun despite his winning the Cup with Chicago. Kipper? Not any more. Bryz? With his playoff record? Uh-uh. Cam Ward I can make a decent argument that he’s ahead of Vokoun, but with Vokoun on the Caps this season, that could easily change. Price? Sorry, I need more than one good season to move him ahead of a guy who’s been very good for the better part of a decade. Time will tell, but if Vokoun can excel with Florida, I fell pretty good about what he can accomplish here in DC vs the guys ranked ahead of him.
Agreed. I did think it was odd though that he called the #8 goalie on the list (Cam Ward) elite. Almost 1/3 of all the starters in the NHL can’t be considered elite.
Unless you’re going to argue we’re just in an era of elite goaltenders (a-la the NBA having an era of elite talents). Compared to the pre-butterfly days, maybe, but at first glance I wouldn’t be convinced by such an angle.
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Hasek, Roy and Brodeur were all elite and all played at the same time. Is anyone at their level right now?
Thomas has had two seasons at that level, but with a down one in between and without the same history of consistency. Miller? Rinne? Maybe, but I’m not sure anyone right now matches those three.
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Jul 30, 2011 2:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Brodeur isn’t on the same level as Hasek and Roy, in my opinion.
"Essentially, all models are wrong, but some are useful" George E.P. Box
by Knee high to a duck on Jul 30, 2011 5:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Maybe not in any one year when Hasek or Roy was at his best, but Brodeur owns all of the all time records (and has a better career save percentage than Roy).
If you were offered any one of the three, as a rookie, right now, I think it’d be a very hard choice to make. Hasek was more excellent, while he played, with Roy second in both peak and career value, and Brodeur with the most staying power. How much does the difference between Hasek and Brodeur matter in any one season? Enough to justify the 50+% more games that Brodeur has played?
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Jul 30, 2011 6:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Adjust for era and the save percentages are different; Roy spent the first 10 years of his career in the go-go offensive era before the trap, Brodeur was on the team that ushered in the trap era as a rookie. Adjust for the quality of the teams and Brodeur’s records are different, or still owned by other people. Longevity is nice, but the Devils paid big bucks for Brodeur. Elite tender? Sure, he’s pretty damn good. But he’s not in the discussion with Hasek or Roy or Dryden.
Hasek also didn’t crack the NHL until a relatively late age because he was stuck in Europe. Guess who has the most games in major hockey leagues (NHL, KHL, Men’s senior international competition)? It ain’t Brodeur.
Aside from maybe Dryden (who played for overwhelmingly superior Habs teams in the ‘70s), no goalie has ever had a stretch as good as Hasek’s ‘98-’99.
And another: How many years did Brodeur finish in the top 5 in Sv%? Top 10? 4 and 6, respectively. Roy has 9 and 15, Hasek 9 and 11.
Marty Brodeur had himself an excellent career, but let’s not confuse the teams he played for with his own personal success.
"Essentially, all models are wrong, but some are useful" George E.P. Box
by Knee high to a duck on Jul 30, 2011 11:13 PM EDT up reply actions
And another. It’s Hasek in the prime of Brodeur’s career and it’s not even close.
"Essentially, all models are wrong, but some are useful" George E.P. Box
by Knee high to a duck on Jul 30, 2011 11:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Hasek, easy. When not in the NHL he’s dominated the leagues he’s played in in Europe, most recently the KHL, taking the save percentage leader crown. He’s almost beaten Howe in terms of total pro seasons now as well.
Red Line Station and @RedArmyLine, featuring coverage of the most frustrating team in the NHL
I believe in next year.
by red army line on Jul 31, 2011 2:14 AM EDT up reply actions
Luongo definitely looks HOF caliber, at least until the spring.
Red Line Station and @RedArmyLine, featuring coverage of the most frustrating team in the NHL
I believe in next year.
by red army line on Jul 31, 2011 2:15 AM EDT up reply actions
OK, so the PD Traveling All Stars starting lineup is:
G: Tim Thomas
D: Zdeno Chara
D: Shea Weber
LW: Alex Ovechkin
C: Sidney Crosby
RW: Corey Perry
It’s one way to go…
If you've read this far...seek help.
by ThePeerless on Jul 30, 2011 10:22 AM EDT up reply actions
Happy birthday Peerless!
You perhaps knew me better as "Your Nation's Capital." Same great commentary, now with 100% more transparency!
thank you thank you….and thanks for all the kind words folks
If you've read this far...seek help.
by ThePeerless on Jul 30, 2011 11:23 AM EDT up reply actions
Happy Birthday. A good day’s reading always includes one of your posts.
BTW I have thoroughly enjoyed your series, “Rebuild…Renovations, parts 1-4.” Great clincher: “Put another way, there really are no more excuses. If not now, when?”
"Hockey won’t hold still for a portrait. To gain a glimpse inside you join it in progress—just as the players do." Epilogue of 24/7
by capsyoungguns on Jul 30, 2011 1:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Six years.
Who coulda predicted?
"You just have a sense," Holland says. "The type of player you want, the type of situation you reference for your next game, you see it."
by Acer Jonesy's Laughker on Jul 30, 2011 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions
And that’s not counting all the great posts on the NHL message board before the blog was born
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Jul 30, 2011 6:37 PM EDT up reply actions
I def. think Vokoun is top 5-8 in the league. I’d put the Vezina nominees ahead of him, and perhaps MAF, Lundy, Miller, and Price. But come on, Brodeur? After last season? He’s an all-time great, but it’s not like I would have put even Gretzky as one of the league’s best players in his final years
MAF ain’t like the others. Nor is Price.
Red Line Station and @RedArmyLine, featuring coverage of the most frustrating team in the NHL
I believe in next year.
by red army line on Jul 30, 2011 11:32 AM EDT up reply actions
If the guy was going by actual projections and not mixing it with his own opinion Vokoun should be top 8. Why? Because the Caps are a good team who win a lot. Winning goalies tend to have better stats than losing ones. Vokoun may not increase his impressive averages namely his s% of .920+ but posting that in DC will lower his GAA maybe as much as half a goal.
Kipper and Broduer are going down hill and it doesn’t help that their teams aren’t that good either.
Bruce Boudreau when asked about Brooks Laich's return to the lineup, he said: "He just adds another dimension to our team. If it was puzzle, he just fits that thing. He completes us."
Brooks Laich completing everything from teams to tires and everything in between.
Vokoun may not increase his impressive averages namely his s% of .920+ but posting that in DC will lower his GAA maybe as much as half a goal
How so?
Through the power of speculation.
If you were also to apply Vokoun’s s% last season to the amount of shots Neuvy faced last year he comes out with about 100 goals against, which would be the lowest in the league for a starting goalie. Using Neuvy’s time played as well with Vokouns stats he would of had a 2.23 gaa good enough for 3rd as a starting goalie.
Starting goalie qualifies as a lot of games played like 40 or more. Opposed to back ups playing 20 games.
Bruce Boudreau when asked about Brooks Laich's return to the lineup, he said: "He just adds another dimension to our team. If it was puzzle, he just fits that thing. He completes us."
Brooks Laich completing everything from teams to tires and everything in between.
Looking at the math, I think half a goal would be real tough. Half a goal is about 1/5th of Vokoun’s GAA, so to drop a GAA by that much and keep sv% the same, you’d have to lower shots against by 1/5th, or about 6 shots per game. Florida allowed 3 shots per game more than the Caps last year. So that gets you only halfway there.
Meanwhile, the Caps were shorthanded 32 times more than the Cats last year — Florida was one of the most disciplined teams in the league. And both teams were near the bottom of the league in power plays. So there’s a good chance Vokoun will see more penalty kill action this year than last year. And that’ll push his GAA up some.
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Jul 30, 2011 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Well yes, going down that much is a bit of a stretch. But it would definitely earn him a 10 out of 10 in his summer Caps review!
If he can perform the same way he did for the cats, his GAA will definitely shrink and could match up with any of the league’s top performers.
While the caps had more PK chances against they were one of the best units in the league and despite the 32 chance differential, the Caps only had 2 more goals against on the PK. Another IF, but if the caps PK is as effective as it was last year I don’t think it will push up his GAA much or at all.
Bruce Boudreau when asked about Brooks Laich's return to the lineup, he said: "He just adds another dimension to our team. If it was puzzle, he just fits that thing. He completes us."
Brooks Laich completing everything from teams to tires and everything in between.
Hypothetical: one week before the trade deadline, Colorado is bottom two. Do you give the other team some NHL help so the Caps can nail Yakupov?
Red Line Station and @RedArmyLine, featuring coverage of the most frustrating team in the NHL
I believe in next year.
and even if you have a better chance if Colorado finishes dead last, you don’t do anything detrimental to this year’s Capitals teams chances, by trading away a serviceable player.
Because now I can justify browsing and commenting during the work day with the argument that I am promoting my business.
by Sombrero Guy on Jul 30, 2011 12:18 PM EDT up reply actions
I see what you did there.
I’m also not convinced Nail goes 1. Ryan Murray might end up with that distinction.
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I’m already understanding why folks are so excited about this next draft. Is Huberdeau even #2 in comparison to the players who are coming?
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Jul 30, 2011 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Grigorenko might slip a bit as a playmaking wing. Galchenyuk is a scoring center with Nail pulling his numbers up. Would also not be surprised to see Forsberg and Frk do so.
I wonder if the Canadiens will draft Malcolm Subban….
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Visit us online at : http://winterion.com
Dobber has Grigorenko as a C, I guess we’ll find out where he lands when he hits the CHL with the Remparts this season.
with his Bure-like speed, Datsyuk-like shiftiness, Kovalchuk-like sniping abilities and Ovechkin-like celebrations and passion
Obvious hyperbole, but if Yakupov really does have those traits in somewhat lesser measures, we could be looking at a pantheon player.
"Essentially, all models are wrong, but some are useful" George E.P. Box
by Knee high to a duck on Jul 30, 2011 11:15 PM EDT up reply actions
When was the last time lottery range drafted players were matched by players a year younger, as Yakupov and the MHL player seem to be at Huberdeau’s level already (purely by counting stats)? Sid and Alex? Well, maybe Tavares
Red Line Station and @RedArmyLine, featuring coverage of the most frustrating team in the NHL
I believe in next year.
by red army line on Jul 31, 2011 2:19 AM EDT up reply actions
No, for the lottery reasons stated, and because you’re still looking at excellent draft position. You’re better off waiting until after the lottery and trying to trade up to No. 1 if you want a particular player that badly.
Trading up isn’t always possible. It really depends on where the scouts think the talent falls off, or if there’s one superstar in the draft and a bunch of other good, but not stellar, talents. I would absolutely consider sending another team a player if it meant that COL finished last.
"Essentially, all models are wrong, but some are useful" George E.P. Box
by Knee high to a duck on Jul 31, 2011 12:54 AM EDT up reply actions
No. There are too many variables in play to be sure that it helps and it just seems like really bad karma. However, if a logical trade comes up with a team that is selling at the trade deadline which happens to make life harder for the Avs, that’s perfectly fine.
Based on the talent in the upcoming draft, is there a consensus out there as to whether the Caps will want the 2nd in 2012 regardless of where Bruins end up in the standings, as opposed to the Av’s 2nd in 2013?
In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.
Depends on how much help, but if you could significantly increase your odds of one of Grigoriev, Yakupov, or Murry, I think that’s something you have to do. Yakupov is my personal favorite, but Pronman likes Grigoriev better, if I’m reading correctly.
"Essentially, all models are wrong, but some are useful" George E.P. Box
by Knee high to a duck on Jul 30, 2011 5:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Err, Grigorienko.
"Essentially, all models are wrong, but some are useful" George E.P. Box
by Knee high to a duck on Jul 30, 2011 5:27 PM EDT up reply actions
No, but if you play that other team in the last week of the season, the decision on whether to “rest” your best players will be much more interesting.
I wouldn’t. Take your chance with the lottery. There’s more than one impact player in this draft so just take what falls into your lap. We are already in a good position, no need to get too clever. We also don’t want to take any steps back in the playoff run just so we can potentially move up a spot in the draft lottery.
Now, if we have to move a roster player out for some reason (make space for an in-coming player), then I’d consider sending the roster player to a team competing with COL, but are they really buyers? Is a guy they are willing to take really going to help them enough to put them over the top? More likely it’s a spare part.
Obviously, this is all speculation.
The Habs pulled a similar move to get Lafleur, right?
Red Line Station and @RedArmyLine, featuring coverage of the most frustrating team in the NHL
I believe in next year.
by red army line on Jul 31, 2011 12:20 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t really know, but either way, times have changed. The lotto wasn’t around when Lafleur was drafted, for starters.
Obviously, this is all speculation.
The two consensus guys at the top of that draft were Lafleur first, but Marcel Dionne wasn’t a bad consolation prize. If there’s a big drop from 2 → 3, the calculus changes (the last place team is guaranteed 1st or 2nd pick, no?)
"Essentially, all models are wrong, but some are useful" George E.P. Box
by Knee high to a duck on Jul 31, 2011 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions
I thought last place was guaranteed top 3, but I’ll check up on it when I get a chance.
And yeah, the depth of the draft will change the calculus, but in what is being described as an incredibly deep draft, I don’t think the Caps need to be greedy and say “First overall or bust.” In all likelihood, COL isn’t really going to be in contention for 1 overall, I don’t think. Maybe they get more bad luck and they do get into the lotto, but I think 8-10 is more realistic.
Obviously, this is all speculation.
Vokoun
Sure, a Vezina would be nice, but don’t we really want him to win the Conn Smythe?
by RPI93 on Jul 30, 2011 12:42 PM EDT reply actions 3 recs
I’d be okay with Semin winning the Conn Smythe if Vokoun doesn’t.
In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.
Dudes, I’d be okay with freakin’ DJ King winning the Smythe.
Warning: I started watching hockey in 2007. So, yeah.
by Laich Button on Jul 30, 2011 3:30 PM EDT up reply actions
But only in the case if DJ King is not traded or waived during this coming season. We do have to include all proper caveats.
Rocking the Red for teams on the banks of the Potomac and at the Gateway Arch and Singing the Blues about Hockey.
Careful wishing for that, especially for a goalie. 15 goalies have won the Conn Smythe. Only 11 of them were happy about it. Crozier, Hall, Hextall and Giguere would gladly trade that award for a different one…
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Jul 30, 2011 6:42 PM EDT up reply actions
You’ll note that I didn’t specify which shiny trophy he could be hoisting.
You perhaps knew me better as "Your Nation's Capital." Same great commentary, now with 100% more transparency!
The Vezina’s got all that wood platform breaking up the shiny, though.
Lacking specific evidence to the contrary, I shall blame this on Chemmy and Two Line Pass.
by CapitalCentre on Jul 30, 2011 5:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Greed, for the lack of a better term, is good.
You perhaps knew me better as "Your Nation's Capital." Same great commentary, now with 100% more transparency!
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