Caps Sign Jeff Schultz

I just don’t think Green and Schultz make each other better. They’re both good, but I’d like to see more (on ice) chemistry between them

But you’re not just criticizing Schultz, you’re being ridiculous. If someone said Green was so bad defensively that he’s really only a 3rd pair D they’d get ridiculed as well. You want to talk about whether Schultz is an ideal partner for Green, fine. But going straight to third pair and the other dismissive language is unjustified.

When did I say that compensation didn’t matter?

Look, Schultz is making an appropriate amount of money for his skillset and his place on this team. You can disagree with that if you like, but your only assertion thus far to support your argument is that your “lying eyes” tell you he’s goofy-looking. That’s the same argument Mike Keenan made when he sat Dominik Hasek – he looks goofy.

Green gets criticized in part because of his salary (with $$$ comes expectations), and because of his GreenLife52 personality. He also gets criticized because he’s disappeared pretty badly in two consecutive playoff years.

this is utterly irrational.

I only said that the defenders blind faith in him and failure to concede or acknowledge the validity of an opposing viewpoint actually makes me dislike Schultz as a player.

I can’t disagree strongly enough on this, particularly because some of the “defenders blind faith” by the veterans here do acknowledge his faults (or at least, have in the past).

It’s not blind faith when you can provide ample background stats and information that show why you believe. Blind faith is more along the lines of what even you’re doing with Alzner and Carlson, who despite their good track records so far have little NHL experience that really show how well they’ll be in the future. How I and most Caps fans believe in Schultz is entirely based on stats and trends that we see rather than just our eyes, because in hockey so much of the game isn’t visible.

There’s posts of me as a Schultz detractor a few years ago, and while I wouldn’t argue he’s the best defenseman on the team (John Erskine Carlson, dawg), after reviewing what the people who supported him brought to the table, I was able to see that there was more to his game than just what I saw.

I only said that the defenders blind faith in him and failure to concede or acknowledge the validity of an opposing viewpoint actually makes me dislike Schultz as a player.

You are the one who has given no evidence other than your “lying eyes.” I, on the other hand, have cited actual facts to back up my argument. You’re the one relying on blind faith here, not me.

Second, I acknowledge that Schultz isn’t perfect. He is a goofy skater and is prone to getting beat one-on-one by Daniel Briere-types in open ice.

At the same time, my eyes, Bruce Boudreau’s eyes, GMGM’s eyes and the statistics all agree that he’s a top-4 defenseman. Your eyes and the mouthbreathers over on Caps Insider are on the other side of the fence.

Sorry, but you’re walking the fine line towards Troll Town, buddy.

We agree— you are irrational.

This is going to be last I say on the matter, because you admit to being irrational and are choosing to focus on that rather than the actual point of the responses to you.

To sum up the arguments:

Schultz Fan: I like Schultz because Stat A, B, C, D show him to be a good NHL player in line with the amount of money we have decided to pay him.

FreakinandPeakin: I don’t like Schultz because he’s awkward. Awkwardness is a punishable offense. He is overpaid. I IRRATIONALLY DISLIKE HIM BECAUSE SCHULTZ FAN KEEPS PRESENTING ME WITH STATS.

Yes, he’s slow.
Yes, he’s awkward.
Yet…
He’s good at his job, which is to keep the puck out of the net.

Eric Dickerson had the goofiest running styles, HOF.

Kevin McHale was extremely slow and goofy looking playing basketball, HOF.

Ivan Lendl was a goofy robot on the tennis court, HOF.

Being slow and/or awkward doesn’t mean you can’t be effective as an athlete if you have other compensating factors, like being tall, smart and long. All things Schultz has shown over the past couple of years.

Jerry Rice did run a 4.71 40. Where did that get him?

Because you’re on a site full of armchair GMs and lawyers.

Because in the end, only results matter. Those results are reflected in stats. in a play or a game or a few games, you might trust your eyes over the numbers, but over a season or two, numbers =results, and that is all that matters.

You can’t come into the conversation and say Ovechkin belongs on the 3rd line without stats.

Since the stats will back you up—AO’s raw numbers, Semin’s inconsistency with most of his points in multi point games and lots of dot games.

Marc Staal is probably a similar case. He’s underrated, probably even in the NYR fanbase.

You’re confusing disagreeing with your stance and your arguement with attacking you personally.

Please disagree, just come up with a better argument than “my lying eyes.”

There are any number of different potential arguments, but you resorted to one that’s pretty difficult to argue and when challenged by actual arguable points, you retreated to being defensive rather than countering them.

You are throwing out strawmen and pulling the martyr act with the best of them. Keep it up and you’ll get an official invite to the Semin Lobby.

2.75 million is 3rd/4th defenseman money, no matter how much of a raise it is. It’s about half what Green makes as a 1st.

3rd/4th defenseman is what most of us wish Schultz was. He can be your 2 in a pinch, like he was last year. We’d all like someone better to push him down the depth chart. Maybe Alzner can do it.

You’re telling us Schultz is a 5/6 at best. I don’t understand why you say that.

I don’t understand what you mean. You are saying his age, salary and depth chart position shouldn’t be used in evaluating him?

I’m saying that you said I/we was/were making “pre-determined excuses for what Jeff Schultz’s failings will be”. I asked what those were and you said, “He is young. What he earns shouldn’t matter. Where he is in the line-up shouldn’t matter when judging him.”

What I’m saying is, I don’t understand how those factors are excuses for future failings when each of those factors indicates that we should expect more of him in the future. So if we’re saying we expect more out of Schultz than what he’s given so far, how are we making excuses for him in advance?

To take it back to the report card conversation, what are your expectations for him this season?

I expect him to be basically what he was this past year, but a little better. A solid, steady defensive defenseman who does his job without a lot of flash or flair, kills penalties well, and who struggles with quick forwards because his skating isn’t that great.

Mine are now for a defensemen who earned over a 300% increase in salary to play on the top pairing of a SC contender. Is that an unfair standard?

It’s not the method I would use to evaluate a player, because I’d evaluate them based on what I think their talent is, rather than their depth chart position or salary (or salary change).