Wednesday Caps Clips: Leafs @ Caps Game Day
by J.P. on Nov 3, 2010 6:39 AM EDT
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PrintYour savory breakfast links:
- Previews of tonight's truculence from Vogs, NHL.com, KOL and RLS, and be sure to check out my favorite SB Nation blog, Pension Plan Puppets, for more coverage from the other side of tonight's match up.
- Notes and assorted whatnot from yesterday's practice. [Caps365 video (Boudreau, Neuvirth), CI, DCEx, TBD]
- Bruce Boudreau on keeping the Alex Ovechkin-Nicklas Backstrom-Alexander Semin line together: "We'll see how long this lasts until they start getting really too [fancy] playing with each other instead of doing the right things." Over/under set at three shifts. [CI (Carrera)]
- Related: Mike Knuble is frustrated with his slow start. [CSN Washington (Masisak), CI (Carrera)]
- More on theSuper Line. [Puck Update]
- The Caps have been bringin' the D. And the G. [Dump 'n Chase]
- Mike Green getting recognized for his defense? In Canada? This I've gotta see. [Globe and Mail (Duhatschek)]
- FOTB (Friend of the Blog) Greg Wyshynski thinks Michal Neuvirth's Rookie of the Month award for October should've gone to someone else. FOTB Greg Wyshynski is wrong. [Puck Daddy]
- In praise of Jeff Schultz. [Box Seats]
- A look at the last five games' Fenwick. [RLS]
- Here are yesterday's radio hits for your listening pleasure:
- Backstrom on The Sports Junkies... [106.7 The Fan (audio)]
- ... John Carlson on NHL Live... [NHL Live (audio)]
- ... Brooks Laich on Hockey Central @ Noon... [The FAN 590 (audio)]
- ... and Neuvirth on LaVar and Dukes. [106.7 The Fan (audio)]
- BOOM! [Reliable Source]
- A preview of the Caps/Pens "24/7" series on HBO will air on November 20. [NHL]
- Six questions with Ted Leonsis. [Gunaxin]
- Trevor Bruess is fitting in nicely in Hershey. [Patriot-News (Leone)]
- Checking in on future Caps. [RMNB]
- The Pacific Northwest gets to know Quintin Laing. [Times Colonist]
- Finally, happy 41st birthday to Jim McKenzie.
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Watched the Evgeny Kuznetsov at RMNB and all I can say is wow. In a fast paced game he looks fantastic. No idea what is major issue is or why he slipped to us in the draft but I can’t wait to see him if he makes it over here.
He’s russian, that’s why..
I have a twitter.
Not another Capitals blog!
"Victory is sweetest when you've known defeat"
"It was like mid-December and I remember talking to Matt Bradley and we were tied or something," Knuble said. "It is frustrating, because you want to get off to a good start and not be patient and wait for them. That’s not how the game works. You want it now and you want it today – immediately."
which was then followed by the line, “Is Mike Knuble gonna have to choke a bitch?”
I poured spot remover on my dog. Now he's gone.
So my question is…what exactly was Ovi’s “lady friend” dressed up as?
"Do you see my fist? It was fists like these that built quaint Canadian cities out of the harsh Canadian wilderness, etc. etc."
Not in Seattle anymore.
You mean “dressed down”, or “undressed”, don’t you?
OK, it’s as much or more cover than a bikini, but wasn’t it cold over the weekend? :-)
"It's always good to have vikings."
She was dressed as Alex Ovechkin’s girlfriend, of course.
You perhaps knew me better as "Your Nation's Capital." Same great commentary, now with 100% more transparency!
Well, that’s the point, isn’t it? Dress as something that doesn’t exist?
by DrinkingPartner on Nov 3, 2010 9:33 AM EDT up reply actions
"Do not be afraid to ask for credit, for our way of refusing is very polite."
by Laich It Or Lump It on Nov 3, 2010 8:41 AM EDT up reply actions
If I could rec Puck Daddy posts, I’d rec this from Justin Bourne. Spot on, Bourne. Spot on.
Atta dinnin stick a who!
Continuing a string of Puck-Daddy-inspired messages…
FOTB (Friend of the Blog) Greg Wyshynski thinks Michal Neuvirth’s Rookie of the Month award for October should’ve gone to someone else. FOTB Greg Wyshynski is wrong. [Puck Daddy]
So in one “of the Month” competition, the guy with 9 goals and 10 assists in 10 games beats out the goalie who in 6 games has allowed just 3 goals on 185 shots (.984 s%).
In the other, the guy with 4 goals and 4 assists in 10 games lost to the goalie with the 2.15 GAA and .926 s%.
Why is PD even writing about rookie of the month? Isn’t the real story here Stamkos beating Thomas out? Nothing against Stamkos, but we’ve seen that kind of production before. Forget one month — Gretzky kept it up for four consecutive seasons. Now, being compared to Gretzky is normally enough to win you player of the month, but there’s nobody in the history of hockey who has ever maintained what Thomas is doing for more than a few games.
The GAA record is .921, and that was in the 1920s. Since 1940, the best is 1.695. Thomas is at less than 1/3 of that. The s% record is .9366. If Thomas were stopping .9366, he’d have allowed 12 goals — four times more than the 3 he has actually allowed.
Isn’t that more deserving of recognition than Stamkos’s hot streak?
Atta dinnin stick a who!
I was about to post this as a stand-alone comment when yours appeared, so I will just post it as a reply and curse my timing:
Eberle’s sublime first NHL goal served as a calling card for his rookie season; he’s become one of the best penalty killers in the NHL; and, most important of all, he’s grabbed the headlines from his more famous teammate this season, the one with the No. 1 overall draft pick sweater.
These assertions fall flat to me. Firstly, Eberle’s youtube highlight goal can be countered with Neuvirth’s youtube highlight save on Eric Staal (unless you are D’ohboy), and I do not think a youtube moment should factor heavily into the RotM decision, but perhaps I am wrong on this point. Also, Eberle garnering more media attention than Taylor Hall in a one-month span is pretty much irrelevant, not to mention difficult to quantify.
What really surprised me, however, was tagging Eberle as "one of the best penalty killers in the NHL." Apparently Eberle emerged as an elite penalty killer within the first month of the season? While his two short-handed goals were impressive, that is hardly compelling evidence of being an elite penalty killer. Edmonton currently has the second worst penalty kill in the league, so I find it hard to believe that anyone from that unit is elite. That assertion is also based on 22:07 of short-handed TOI during ten games, which far too small of a sample size to form general superlatives. Eberle is definitely a solid two-way center, but if we are focusing on the month of October, penalty killing should not be in the discussion.
"Do not be afraid to ask for credit, for our way of refusing is very polite."
by Laich It Or Lump It on Nov 3, 2010 9:08 AM EDT up reply actions
Also, Eberle garnering more media attention than Taylor Hall in a one-month span is pretty much irrelevant, not to mention difficult to quantify.
Agree – and I’d compare it to Neuvirth providing great goaltending despite the knock on the Caps before the season being that the goaltending was a question mark. It’s a nice story but ultimately irrelevant to this kind of award.
if we are focusing on the month of October, penalty killing should not be in the discussion
…and if it is, doesn’t the goalie have to be the best PKer? Don’t the Caps have one of the top PK rates in the League right now, at least in part because of Neuvy? And on that note, doesn’t Edmonton have one of the worst PK success rates? :P
If anyone needs me, I'll be at Kettler.
Allow me to clarify: I didn’t mean penalty killing should be barred from the discussion for Rookie of the Month in general (or any “of the Month” award). I just mean penalty killing does not help the argument for Eberle as RotM. And yes, Edmonton is second worst in the league on the PK with a 68.8% success rate.
"Do not be afraid to ask for credit, for our way of refusing is very polite."
by Laich It Or Lump It on Nov 3, 2010 9:19 AM EDT up reply actions
Oh, I wasn’t picking on you – I was agreeing with you (in an apparently convoluted and unclear way, sorry…need more caffeine). That if Wysh is going to make the argument that PKing ability is one of the things putting Eberle over the top, I’d point to Neuvy and the Caps over-90% effectiveness rate on the PK as a rebuttal.
If anyone needs me, I'll be at Kettler.
I gotcha. Just wanted to clarify the part of my comment that you quoted. When I re-read it, I didn’t like how it was worded. That is a great point about Neuvy on the PK. The Caps, and Neuvirth by extension, have only allowed one short-handed goal against so far. Neuvy definitely deserves some of the credit for that accomplishment.
"Do not be afraid to ask for credit, for our way of refusing is very polite."
by Laich It Or Lump It on Nov 3, 2010 9:33 AM EDT up reply actions
Wait…allowed only one SH goal? What does that have to do with our PK?
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
Bah, strike that comment from the record. I don’t know what I was thinking. Apparently I can’t read a simple chart.
"Do not be afraid to ask for credit, for our way of refusing is very polite."
by Laich It Or Lump It on Nov 3, 2010 9:47 AM EDT up reply actions
Still a fair point. Neuvy was awesome and, therefore, quite deserving of his honor. I refuse to jinx future awards however.
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
by twistedlogic on Nov 3, 2010 10:00 AM EDT up reply actions
I have a feeling, that much like how the Caps wouldn’t have drafted Anton Gustafsson if his last name was “Jones” or any other, that if Jordan Eberle hadn’t scored that highlight reel goal, it wouldn’t even be an issue that Neuvy’s the ROTM.
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Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Nov 3, 2010 9:20 AM EDT up reply actions
Like I said above, Eberle’s highlight reel goal could be countered by Neuvy’s highlight reel save; however, I think the general population appreciates a great goal far more than a great save.
"Do not be afraid to ask for credit, for our way of refusing is very polite."
by Laich It Or Lump It on Nov 3, 2010 9:22 AM EDT up reply actions
They’re excited about a hyped guy living up to it. Neuvy was a guy some people thought could do well, but he wasn’t exactly a World Juniors standout and a first round pick like Eberle.
"Semin had two goals this year, Perreault comes in and he gets three."
So shouldn’t they set the bar higher on Eberle then?
(Yes, I know about the avatar hounding - just pretend mine is invisible.)
They’re excited about a hyped guy living up to it.
by DrinkingPartner on Nov 3, 2010 1:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Also from PD:
Neuvirth is 22, an AHL champion and a player with 22 NHL games to his credit before his “rookie year.” Eberle is 20 and played 20 games in the AHL before debuting for the Oilers in October.
Yes, Neuvy is two years older and has more experience but the goalie is the most difficult position in hockey, isn’t? Also, being a goaltender in a team like the Caps with all the pressure and expectations on the team this year is a much bigger challenge than being a forward in a team with little if any expectations this year. The fact of the matter is that Neuvy has been the Caps best and most consistent player this year. He is the reason the Caps have a winning record right now.
Lobbies: Green, Carlson, Orlov
by CapsFan2020 on Nov 3, 2010 10:10 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Neuvirth’s save on Staal was good (I even said as much), but it doesn’t hold a candle to Eberle’s goal. That was sick.
Moreover, I don’t even think that Neuvirth’s save on Staal was his best play from that game, let alone his month.
And I hear you talk the talk, but I don't see you walk the walk and I still don't believe a thing you say.
I don’t disagree that Eberle’s goal is superior to Neuvirth’s save. The overall point is that a highlight reel moment is being offered in support of Eberle for RotM, while Neuvy has a highlight of his own to counter. If you search for “Michal Neuvirth” on YouTube, the save on Staal is the third result, so it is recognized as one of Neuvy’s finest plays of late.
Also, mentioning you by name was nothing more than a stab at a continuity joke. That thread was pretty epic.
"Do not be afraid to ask for credit, for our way of refusing is very polite."
by Laich It Or Lump It on Nov 3, 2010 10:35 AM EDT up reply actions
I was actually going to post a second reply that I think that Wysh’s argument is a little spurious. Neuvy was clearly more deserving. He’s been carrying the team, while Eberle’s been a nice little surprise. It’s just not comparable.
No worries about the continuity joke. I just didn’t want people to think I was delusional – it was definitely a good save.
And I hear you talk the talk, but I don't see you walk the walk and I still don't believe a thing you say.
I’m with you. In yesterday’s Clips, I asserted that if you thought anyone other than Thomas deserved first star of the month you had to be nuts. I don’t know what they were thinking. I guess if you multiply it out, Stamkos is on pace to get 155 points. That’s pretty impressive in it’s own right. I just think Thomas’ stats are much more impressive.
I couldn’t help wondering if Wysh was trying to show he’s not a Capitals’ apologist, as he often is accused of being.
"It's always good to have vikings."
There was one thing in the Wysh article I really liked and that he mentioned that while Neuvy and Eberle were both good choices for Rookie of the Month in October, the real story would be rookie of the year, and he listed his two front runners of Subban and Carlson.
Not too shabby when the team that finished with the best record in the NHL has two viable Calder Trophy candidates. I like this a whole lot…. :D
Washington Capitals 2009-10 = Quebec Nordiques 1994-95
--- D'ohboy
by MikeL-Pivonka on Nov 3, 2010 10:11 AM EDT up reply actions
If Stamkos keeps this up, he’ll score around 150 points this season. That kind of production hasn’t been seen in 15 years.
He had a great month and well deserved the award.
If Stamkos keeps this up, he’ll score around 150 points this season. That kind of production hasn’t been seen in 15 years./blockquote>
If Thomas keeps this up, he’ll put up stats that haven’t been seen. . . EVER.
That’s much more impressive in my opinion.
And I hear you talk the talk, but I don't see you walk the walk and I still don't believe a thing you say.
WTF? This is the second time the block quotes have messed up on me…
And I hear you talk the talk, but I don't see you walk the walk and I still don't believe a thing you say.
The preview didn’t show it this way.
I’m using Chrome this morning because Firefox was being epically slow. I think that might have something to do with it.
And I hear you talk the talk, but I don't see you walk the walk and I still don't believe a thing you say.
I did consider that you might be on a smartphone and therefore not have access to the preview button. I just felt like someone needed to yank your chain.
Sorry for being snarky at you.
"It's always good to have vikings."
It’s cool. It’s just annoying because I can’t see it. But Chrome is soooooo much faster/smoother than Firefox on this site.
And I hear you talk the talk, but I don't see you walk the walk and I still don't believe a thing you say.
and Safari just doesn’t have these “slowness” problems…at least not on the sites I visit. yeah, I left that door wide open. C’mon, if you’re feelin’ froggy. :-)
Country Gentlemen's Pig Fertilizer Gazette
Dunny-on-the-World
Safari on a Mac? I’d hope you don’t experience slowness on a $1000+ computer.
"Semin had two goals this year, Perreault comes in and he gets three."
What if he just bought it because it was sexy?
by DrinkingPartner on Nov 3, 2010 11:04 AM EDT up reply actions
What if he just bought sexy because it was it?
It takes a special kind of man to be a Scuttlin' Crab Man
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Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Nov 3, 2010 11:05 AM EDT up reply actions
1) Everything I do is sexy, because it’s me doing it. BOOM!
2) No, had a mac since ’06. Never slow, not once, not my macbook, not my iMac, not my Macbook Pro. All fast, all the time. And always, always, Sexy!
see. No instructional miscues here.
Country Gentlemen's Pig Fertilizer Gazette
Dunny-on-the-World
When three of the top 8 all-time single season GAA are happening this season, you know that it means that for goalies, these things tend to even themselves out. (Or we’re just having a really low-scoring year in the NHL, which makes Stamkos’s stats even more impressive.)
That is an interesting statistic. If I wasn’t so lazy I’d look at the total goals scored this year in the league. I suspect that the number is down . . . but is it because of the great goalie performances we’re seeing, or is it causing the great goalie performances we’re seeing . . . .
Here’s the single-season GAA:
http://www.hockey-reference.com/leaders/goals_against_avg_season.html
Average goals per game:
07-08: 5.57
08-09: 5.83
09-10: 5.68
10-11: 5.55
So it’s lower from the past two years, but the same as 3 years ago.
Stamkos’s production has already slowed down. There’s no way he maintains that pace.
Secondly, if Thomas were to maintain his numbers, as D’ohboy points out, it would be not only the greatest goaltending season but the greatest season by any player in the history of the sport, period.
"Now wait a minute. This is just purely a social call. You know, just two adults getting a stew on, man."
by The Ghost of Bebop on Nov 3, 2010 10:46 AM EDT up reply actions
That’s true, but it’s also unlikely. There are very few players who have put up 150 points in a season, you can count ’em on one hand with a few fingers to spare.
Stamkos is terrific, but he’s no Gretzky or Lemieux.
Washington Capitals 2009-10 = Quebec Nordiques 1994-95
--- D'ohboy
by MikeL-Pivonka on Nov 3, 2010 1:13 PM EDT up reply actions
How many fingers do you have on your hand? Yzerman, Esposito and Nicholls would like a word with you.
The guy is Peter Schumpmaker. Lord knows what a schump is, but you can bet your bippy his ancestors made them. What he's doing is far worse than crafting fine schumps.
by Steckel Me Elmo on Nov 3, 2010 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Bernie Nicholls had my favorite bizarro season ever in 88-89 when he dropped that 70/80/150. He had 39 the next year and then never topped 30 again.
Second place is Jimmy Carson’s 55/52/107 the year before (although he followed that up with a 49/51/100 in 88-89).
It takes a special kind of man to be a Scuttlin' Crab Man
Box Seats Blog
Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Nov 3, 2010 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Rob Brown?
"DON'T SAY THAT! Please! That is the worst, most stupid thing anyone could say! Cause it quite clearly isn't "only a game." I mean if it was do you honestly think I'd care this much?"
He could have my two favorite bizarro minor league seasons
42/113/155 (with 188 PIMs!!) for Kalamazoo in the IHL in 93-34
52/91/143 (with 100 PIMs) for Chicago Wolves in the IHL in 95-96
He had three 100+ points, 100 PIM seasons in that league. And another one where he finished with over a hundred points and 98 PIMs. If fantasy hockey had existed in that time and place like it does now, those would be the three greatest fantasy hockey years ever.
LOL…he also put up 76/136/212 at Kamloops his last year of Juniors (with 101 PIMs) in 63 games.
It takes a special kind of man to be a Scuttlin' Crab Man
Box Seats Blog
Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Nov 3, 2010 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Having lived in Kamloops for three years in the late 90s, I can tell you that Rob Brown’s # hangs from the rafters at Sportmart Place (or whatever they call it now). I can also tell you most people in Kamloops think Rob Brown is a giant prick.
I poured spot remover on my dog. Now he's gone.
He always seemed like one when he was playing.
It takes a special kind of man to be a Scuttlin' Crab Man
Box Seats Blog
Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Nov 3, 2010 1:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Rob Brown’s line there at Kamloops is still the WHL record for assists and points in a single season. Ray Ferarro’s got the record for goals (108…he had 15 hat tricks that year, also a WHL record).
It takes a special kind of man to be a Scuttlin' Crab Man
Box Seats Blog
Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Nov 3, 2010 1:45 PM EDT up reply actions
I remember reading some interview recently where a current NHL coach said that the best junior player he had ever seen was Rob Brown. He coached out west, so he missed some guys, but Brown was a great offensive talent (when it didn’t require him to have to actually skate).
What ever happened to him? Last I remember he was on the Blackhawks ’92 Stanley Cup finals team, then I lost track and am too lazy to look it up . . .
According to his hockeydb, he spent three years in the IHL with Phoenix and Chicago, came back to the Pens for three years in the late 90s, and spent the last three years of his career with the Wolves in the IHL, retiring after 02-03
It takes a special kind of man to be a Scuttlin' Crab Man
Box Seats Blog
Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Nov 3, 2010 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions
I also like Mitch Lamoureux’s stat line for the 1981-1982 Oshawa Generals
43/78/121 with 275 PIMs preceded by a season of 50/69/119 and 256 PIMs
Confessional- Mitch Lamoureux dated my babysitter from when I was 6 years old.
I poured spot remover on my dog. Now he's gone.
I thought Mitch Lamoureux was a guy who could have been a great golfer, could have gone pro, all he needed was a little time and practice. Decided to go to college instead. Went for four years, did pretty well. At the end of his four years, his last semester he was kicked out… You know what for?
"DON'T SAY THAT! Please! That is the worst, most stupid thing anyone could say! Cause it quite clearly isn't "only a game." I mean if it was do you honestly think I'd care this much?"
Utilizing the green on a golf course at night as if it was a bedroom or the back seat of a station wagon.
Life With Spidey -- a blog about sports, travel, work, family and fun.
Representing Caps fandom in the Gateway to the West.
Warren Young in 84-85?
40/32/72. Only hit double digits in goals once more in his career and by 88-89 was out of the NHL
I poured spot remover on my dog. Now he's gone.
Hi, I’m Dan Quinn, nice to meet you.
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by bilspacecadet on Nov 3, 2010 3:25 PM EDT up reply actions
The Caps went into almost every game this month NEEDING Neuvy to perform in order to be in a game and win. Edmonton was playing with house money with its rookie. To me it’s absolutely clear cut that Neuvy’s performance coupled with his teams situation makes him the clear-cut rookie of the month. Does that mean he’s the best rookie or the one with the most upside? No. But it does mean he should be honored for what he did. Next!
Everything sounds smarter in Tikkanesse....
I think FOTB Greg Wyshynski gets it wrong for another reason.
Neuvirth’s stats for the month of October are top ten in the NHL in terms of starts (first), goals against average (10th; higher if you discount goalies who have played four or fewer games), and save percentage (10th overall; higher if you count goalies who have played in four or fewer games). He hasn’t just been impressive for a rookie; he’s been an impressive goaltender.
Eberle’s game isn’t all about scoring. He’s a very good defensive forward on a pretty bad hockey team. He’s going to get some minuses that aren’t his fault.
Washington Capitals 2009-10 = Quebec Nordiques 1994-95
--- D'ohboy
by MikeL-Pivonka on Nov 3, 2010 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Speaking of Edmonton, has anyone seen enough Oilers games to give a scouting report on the big 3 rooks in EDM? I saw only a tidbit of the On The Fly highlights of last night’s game against VAN, but have seen literally nothing else of them. Hall is definitely fast.
Eberle is the most polished at this stage and clearly the best ‘NHLer’ (which the stats prove).
Hall is still trying to get accustomed to the timing and physicality of it all, I haven’t been overly impressed.
Paajarvi is the fastest by far, and I think he’ll prove the most useful NHL player. He can do everything.
I agree with most of your assessments, Chris, esp. on Hall. He is still the kid in the candy store with a 10 dollar bill. Eyes wide, wondering what he should do with it. He’s going to come around though, there’s lots of talent there. When he adjusts (see Steven Stamkos year 1 vs. Steven Stamkos year 2) watch out.
Eberle is very polished, and while he has some upside, I don’t think it’s as near as high as Hall. He reminds me a bit of Brooks Laich, although Brooks took a little longer to develop.
Paajarvi could be a good player or he could be a bust. There have been a lot of fast players in NHL history that ended up being not so good. I don’t think that will happen in Paajarvi’s case, but it could.
Washington Capitals 2009-10 = Quebec Nordiques 1994-95
--- D'ohboy
by MikeL-Pivonka on Nov 3, 2010 10:09 AM EDT up reply actions
Good comparison w/ Hall/Stamkos, but I don’t think Hall has Stamkos’ ceiling at all. Its early, though.
by Chris Burton on Nov 3, 2010 10:10 AM EDT up reply actions
I disagree in that I think we have a pretty good idea of what Stamkos’ celiing is, and it is possible that Hall beats it.
I know I am going to get in trouble for this here at The Rink since I am going to say that a player is made much better by another player, but Stamkos has an ideal situation being on a line with Marty St. Louis. The situation with Stamkos and Marty isn’t the same as with Backstrom and Ovechkin, but there are some similarities in that a great player is elevating the game of another terrific player.
Marty is an amazing playmaker, and all Stamkos has to do is find some open space and Marty feeds him the puck. With Downie on that line causing trouble in front (when not in the box) it makes for a couple hundred good shots at goal and 40+ goals every year. I can see Stamkos matching his 50 from last year, but when Marty retires or begins to slow down (there’s no sign of it happening yet, but we’re all mortal) I suspect Stamkos will go from a 50-55 goal guy to a 35-45 goal guy (unless Tampa can find a replacement for Marty… good luck, he’s a special talent).
I think Hall can be as good as that or better than Stamkos, given time. Scary that both Stamkos and Hall can’t go out for a beer after the game… then again, neither can Carlson.
Washington Capitals 2009-10 = Quebec Nordiques 1994-95
--- D'ohboy
by MikeL-Pivonka on Nov 3, 2010 10:18 AM EDT up reply actions
I know I am going to get in trouble for this here at The Rink since I am going to say that a player is made much better by another player/blockquote>
I don’t think there’s anyone here who would dispute that this occurs.
And I hear you talk the talk, but I don't see you walk the walk and I still don't believe a thing you say.
I agree my friend, but we argue against it (with good reason) vehemently in the case of Backstrom/Ovechkin. In the case of Stamkos/St. Louis though, it seems apparent, to me anyway, that Stamkos is drinking heavily from this fountain. Much like Jarri Kurri. Kurri was a very good player in his own right, but being Wayne Gretzky’s finisher made him a superstar.
Washington Capitals 2009-10 = Quebec Nordiques 1994-95
--- D'ohboy
by MikeL-Pivonka on Nov 3, 2010 10:23 AM EDT up reply actions
He is a very good player, but playing with Marty makes him great. I’m not saying he wouldn’t have had a good second season, but no way he scores 51 if he’s playing with someone other than Marty St. Louis that’s not named Backstrom, Crosby, Toews or Thornton.
Stamkos is a terrific player and he can play for my team any day. I just think he is getting a lot of advantages in his situation. He is taking those advantages and capitalizing on them, a sign of a great player.
Hall still has to prove he belongs in the NHL. I think he will sometime this season and will get better, like Stamkos did in his rookie season.
Washington Capitals 2009-10 = Quebec Nordiques 1994-95
--- D'ohboy
by MikeL-Pivonka on Nov 3, 2010 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Toews a terrific player, but he is not a good enough playmaker to be mentioned with Crosby, Backstrom, St. Louis or Thornton.
The guy is Peter Schumpmaker. Lord knows what a schump is, but you can bet your bippy his ancestors made them. What he's doing is far worse than crafting fine schumps.
by Steckel Me Elmo on Nov 3, 2010 1:13 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
You’re probably right… but I suspect we might see a couple of 100 point seasons from Toews before he retires…
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--- D'ohboy
by MikeL-Pivonka on Nov 3, 2010 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Disagree, I’d take Toews over Thornton today, not just in the future. Toews is far and away the best defensive player on that list, even if he doesn’t put up gaudy boxcars. G and A aren’t all there is to hockey, as you know.
"Essentially, all models are wrong, but some are useful" George E.P. Box
by Knee high to a duck on Nov 3, 2010 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions
I think you’re in the majority in taking Toews over Jumbo Joe, but we’re talking about pure play-making in this case…. I do think Toews has the potential to be a top notch playmaker and I think he may end up doing that.
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--- D'ohboy
by MikeL-Pivonka on Nov 3, 2010 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t disagree at all. If I’m building a hockey team I definitely take Toews over Thornton. But if we’re discussing the playmaking aspect and getting Stamkos the puck, as MLC was referring to, then I take Thornton, and it’s not close.
The guy is Peter Schumpmaker. Lord knows what a schump is, but you can bet your bippy his ancestors made them. What he's doing is far worse than crafting fine schumps.
by Steckel Me Elmo on Nov 3, 2010 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Just had a scary thought about playmakers… I could have added the Sedins… Imagine Stamkos playing with the Sedin brothers… Yikes!
Just as long as it was in Vancouver
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--- D'ohboy
by MikeL-Pivonka on Nov 3, 2010 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions
That’s fair, I didn’t make the playmaking connection. Savard is a sick playmaker, as well. Actually, so is Pavel Datsyuk when he’s healthy. I swear he has eyes in the back of his head.
"Essentially, all models are wrong, but some are useful" George E.P. Box
by Knee high to a duck on Nov 3, 2010 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Joe Thornton made Jonathan Cheechoo a 50-goal scorer. That’s freaking insane.
And I hear you talk the talk, but I don't see you walk the walk and I still don't believe a thing you say.
Cheechoo that season took over 300 shots (67 more than his next highest season) with nearly 20 mins TOI a game and a career-best 17.7% shooting. That season by San Jose, if memory serves, was in the same vein as the Caps’ 07-08, albeit less dramatic, a frantic push after a big change.
Didn’t Cheechoo also have some hand and leg injuries? Must have lost a step and I guess derailed his career. He probably didn’t have the talent to score 40-50 consistently, but 35-40 seems reasonable.
by red army line on Nov 3, 2010 2:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Toews over Thornton. Point of Reference- the last Winter Games.
I poured spot remover on my dog. Now he's gone.
Small sample size, but yes. Toews is a better hockey player, but I didn’t pick up that they were talking about playmaking.
"Essentially, all models are wrong, but some are useful" George E.P. Box
by Knee high to a duck on Nov 3, 2010 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Evgeni Malkin is a much better playmaker than Toews is, too. Toews has a huge number of strengths, but making ridiculous passes make easy and doing it on the regular isn’t one of them.
"Essentially, all models are wrong, but some are useful" George E.P. Box
by Knee high to a duck on Nov 3, 2010 1:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Really? Thornton was the shutdown center last season for SJS, highest Corsi Rel QoC and didn’t even hit 50% zonestart. He’s a better offensive player at this point. I think I’d still take him over Toews.
by red army line on Nov 3, 2010 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions
No chance I’m taking Thornton over Toews. Joe was the shutdown center, but he spent a lot of time playing with the Marleau, who’s an elite defensive player. If Toews had spent the majority of the season playing with Hossa, I’d write that off as a wash, but Toews is the guy carrying the water defensively for his line. Joe is good on D, Toews is elite. They both carried a defensive liability (Kane and Heatley) on their lines, so I’m washing that, too. Thornton is the better playmaker, Toews is the better goalscorer. If Chicago had shot anything like a normal percentage last season, Toews woulda had a lot more points, too.
"Essentially, all models are wrong, but some are useful" George E.P. Box
by Knee high to a duck on Nov 3, 2010 1:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Thornton spent less time with Marleau than one might think, and Toews got plenty of shifts with Marian Hossa, Patrick Sharp, Troy Brouwer, and Andrew Ladd. I’m not sure how the numbers bear out the last three, but I do know Hossa is an excellent Corsi player and Sharp and Ladd have reputations for being very good defensive players (I think Brouwer does too, but not sure).
Both appear in similar places on their teams’ Corsi Rel QoC lists, with similar values around 0.950 (CHI, SJS). In Corsi Rel QoT, Toews is 2nd, and Thornton 6th, about 0.6 points lower (CHI, SJS). Toews was 7% higher in Zonestart, but both were around 8th among their teams’ forwards.
Toews Corsi Rel: 8.8 (3rd). His PDO was 98.9%, but with that a sv% just below .900 and shooting at 9.5%. Thornton was at 2.2 (6th), 103.1%, 11% shooting, and .922 sv%.
They both look like some of the better PKers on their teams, and when you factor in 4-on-5 offense, both jump to the top of their lists (how the hell does a guy with ~1.5 TOI SH/gm finish +1.6 in +/-ON60 4-on-5?! The Hawks really scored that many SHGs???) (CHI SJS). Toews gets a huge plus here though for playing tough minutes with strong teammates, while Thornton with strong teammates got easy minutes.
Both are top PP guys on their teams (CHI SJS). While Thornton gets middling 5-on-4 minutes in terms of QoC, Toews is last (easiest). Thornton also looks to have slightly worse teammates (well, numerically it’s ~0.2 higher, but in terms of rank on team Thornton is lower). Both are also 2nd on their teams in 5-on-4 pts/60, with Thornton getting about 0.2 more than Toews. Advantage Thornton, it looks like.
Toews was a 17.1 GVT, Thornton a 16.6 (CHI SJS). Both were third on their teams among skaters (Thornton also fell behind Evgeni Nabokov).
It’s closer than I thought, but I’m still taking Thornton. I think his passing ability and offensive play give him an edge since those are among the top handful in the league. I see all of Toews abilities as very good to excellent (~50-60 on the 80 point scale) but Thornton’s passing as truly elite (70). That makes it a win for Thornton in my book.
by red army line on Nov 3, 2010 2:28 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Paajarvi could be a good player or he could be a bust./blockquote>
I totally disagree. Paajarvi has hands and ice vision that a typical speedy bust (Rico Fata) would kill for. Even if Paajarvi doesn’t end up being a great scorer, his downside projection is to be someone like Samuel Pahlsson – not a great NHLer, but a very valuable player in his own right.
And I hear you talk the talk, but I don't see you walk the walk and I still don't believe a thing you say.
Yeah, this is where I am. He’s got all kinds of raw talent. Like I said, I think he may end up being the best of the 3.
by Chris Burton on Nov 3, 2010 10:20 AM EDT up reply actions
Raw talent doesn’t always win out. There are only 3 forwards with more talent than Fleischmann on the Caps (You can probably guess which three) but Flash isn’t considered the 4th best forward (I’d put him either 5th or 6th). Part of it is also drive, and that’s why someone like Brooks Laich and Mike Knuble are better players than Fleischmann, even though Fleischmann has more raw talent. Flash is effective in what he does, but if it’s late in the game, and I’m down a goal with 6 guys one the ice, Laich’s going out there, along with Knuble…
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--- D'ohboy
by MikeL-Pivonka on Nov 3, 2010 10:27 AM EDT up reply actions
From what I’ve seen of Paarjarvi so far, he’s got the potential to be dominating and I agree on his downside — worst-case scenario barring serious injury is a Sammy Pahlsson type two-way forward with some finish in his game.
"Essentially, all models are wrong, but some are useful" George E.P. Box
by Knee high to a duck on Nov 3, 2010 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions
I love watching Paajarvi play. He’s got great speed, great hands, and a ton of smarts already.
Plus, you want to talk about sick rookie goals? Paajarvi’s first goal last week was pretty awesome. Cuts to the far side of the post like he’s gonna roof it backhand, only to one-hand chip it over Kipprusoff’s pad on the near side. Beauty of a deke.
I never saw that… any chance its up at YouTube somewhere?
Washington Capitals 2009-10 = Quebec Nordiques 1994-95
--- D'ohboy
by MikeL-Pivonka on Nov 3, 2010 10:24 AM EDT up reply actions
It’s in the top ten goals of the week video at NHL.com.
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Thanks… will take a look when I get home at night. :)
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--- D'ohboy
by MikeL-Pivonka on Nov 3, 2010 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Mike Green getting recognized for his defense? In Canada? This I’ve gotta see. [Globe and Mail (Duhatschek)]
I dig this article — like everything from Duhatschek it’s well written — but how do you get all the way through writing an article about Mike Green’s defense this year without posting any goals against stats at all? I’m not looking for any advanced stats here, just a simple number of times he’s been scored against versus how long he’s been out there. Because Green’s results so far have been ridiculously good.
Atta dinnin stick a who!
There’s another article on Green today in the Star, and maybe gives you want you want.
http://www.thestar.com/sports/hockey/nhl/article/884950—goal-oriented-cap-eyes-cup-olympics
"It's always good to have vikings."
Was about to post this myself. Great piece except for one sentence that is absolutely bugging me – on his being on the ice for only one goal against so far:
Nobody anticipated that kind of defensive competence from a guy who previously couldn’t pick his own goalie out of a police lineup.
I mean…really? Maybe he was better at the offense before but I never felt like he was completely hapless in his own end, either.
If anyone needs me, I'll be at Kettler.
Goodness — he was average at one thing and exceptional at another. What a terrible player!
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Nov 3, 2010 10:10 AM EDT up reply actions
Personal attacks!
"DON'T SAY THAT! Please! That is the worst, most stupid thing anyone could say! Cause it quite clearly isn't "only a game." I mean if it was do you honestly think I'd care this much?"
by Bald Pollack on Nov 3, 2010 10:13 AM EDT up reply actions
Just making him a better player….
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Nov 3, 2010 10:19 AM EDT up reply actions
Gotcha. Consider my post a belated ISWYDT.
"DON'T SAY THAT! Please! That is the worst, most stupid thing anyone could say! Cause it quite clearly isn't "only a game." I mean if it was do you honestly think I'd care this much?"
by Bald Pollack on Nov 3, 2010 10:22 AM EDT up reply actions
Fahey recalled
Per the team.
"DON'T SAY THAT! Please! That is the worst, most stupid thing anyone could say! Cause it quite clearly isn't "only a game." I mean if it was do you honestly think I'd care this much?"
Guess Sloan isn’t playing.
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
Forget his many faults for the moment. It’s got to be killing him that he’s finally had the opportunity to play every night (and knows it will eventually end when Poti gets healthy) and he gets hurt.
"It's always good to have vikings."
I was just thinking that! There’s no question he’s a weak link (on a chain that could use some further forging) but after last year’s Hockey Diaries, I just can’t help feel very sorry for Sloan. I desperately want him to become a better player.
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Oh absolutely, considering that his faults are less than Fahey’s faults.
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
by twistedlogic on Nov 3, 2010 10:00 AM EDT up reply actions
You got here, first. I’d much rather have Sloan than Fahey in the lineup.
by DrinkingPartner on Nov 3, 2010 10:10 AM EDT up reply actions
Exactly. Although, in a perfect world, the Caps wouldn’t require either of them to play.
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
by twistedlogic on Nov 3, 2010 10:13 AM EDT up reply actions
Perfect world for a Caps fan, Sloan is so far displaced that he’s tearing it up on the bottom pairing in Hershey (I wouldn’t wish South Carolina on him).
by DrinkingPartner on Nov 3, 2010 10:15 AM EDT up reply actions
While accurate, this is excruciatingly sad commentary on the organizational defensive depth.
"Essentially, all models are wrong, but some are useful" George E.P. Box
by Knee high to a duck on Nov 3, 2010 12:13 PM EDT up reply actions
000
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by YvonLabresMoustache on Nov 3, 2010 9:48 AM EDT up reply actions
glad I sold my seats. this game could be UGLY
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lurch from the junkies dropping the knowledge that backstrom’s career +/- is already +66. holy crap i love this team.
don’t you mean, “lurch from the junkies, reading a stat who couldn’t explain correctly if his life depended on it….”
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Well, getting them to shut up about the Redskins for more than 5 seconds is a start…
(I’m a huge football fan…just saying their show can, at times, be very one-dimensional).
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by PaintDrinkingPete on Nov 3, 2010 10:11 AM EDT up reply actions
and by “at times” you mean, “always” right? Because the station should be called WFANoftheRedskins. And the junkies mention more euphemisms for tits (about 4 times) in an hour than they mention other sports in a month.
Country Gentlemen's Pig Fertilizer Gazette
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I appreciate the tits references, and they do tend to talk lots of basketball, baseball, college sports… I dislike all of these non-hockey sports, but at least it’s not all football.
You had me at no problem.
see, I don’t agree. I think they do a half sentence about anything, then finish with a Skins reference, or a Skins player being at the game, or a joke about how a bad play is just like the Redskins, or how the locker room environment is different from that of the Redskins. They don’t actually discuss the other sports, EXCEPT, when A) they are talking about placing a bet, or the March Madness pool, or B) a sports figure or sports analyst is being interviewed.
I’m not saying they don’t know about anything other than football. I’m saying they make a very concerted effort NOT to talk about anything else for more than 30 seconds. AND none of them know squat about Hockey.
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All I get is 15 minutes each morning on my drive in to work, and this morning it was 15 minutes on how awesome John Wall is, how he had 9 steals last night, and other related basketball crap.
And yes, none of them know jack sh!t about hockey.
You had me at no problem.
I’d be talking about John Wall today too, if I was a sports talk dude.
You perhaps knew me better as "Your Nation's Capital." Same great commentary, now with 100% more transparency!
Well, he had a lot of help, and playing in an era when there were more “major” league teams than there are now, with no Russians, Czechs, Slovaks, Ukranians, Kazakhs, etc., there were going to be some very bad teams. The Caps were 8-67-5 that season, and they were lucky to win 8.
Washington Capitals 2009-10 = Quebec Nordiques 1994-95
--- D'ohboy
by MikeL-Pivonka on Nov 3, 2010 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions
On the flipside, that reminds me of a stat that always blows my mind,
Brian Engblom, 1981-1982 Montreal Canadiens +78 in 76 games.
Traded to the Caps the next year and in his final 7 NHL seasons never got higher than +3 (the other 6 seasons were in the minuses).
I poured spot remover on my dog. Now he's gone.
RE: Knuble
Last year at times I wondered if he was the best off-season free agent signing of the season, but I can’t help but notice he just seems off his game this year. Is it the years catching up with him? Is it a nagging ailment? Is it nothing more than a “slow start”? I certainly don’t know, but I do know this: the top line hasn’t been clicking at all for most of the first month of the season, nor the power play. I’m not necessarily blaming Knuble for the lack of scoring on the top line’s part, but he wasn’t exactly helping to fire it up either. You really don’t need any first line guys to be “invisible”, which is about what Knuble has been as of late. I think this move, as temporary as it may be, was a smart one, and hopefully beneficial to both Ovi and Backstrom as well as Knuble.
We’ve seen the “care bear line” crash and burn before, and we may just see it happen again (plus, you’ve got the whole “all your eggs in one basket” issue), but frankly something needed to be shaken up. They got things rolling a bit in Calgary, and hopefully that 2nd period was a sign of things getting back on the right track. Even with all the weapons the Caps have, with the lack of depth they have a center this year, I’m thinking they may need to rely a bit more on Ovi’s line to provide goals…but we’ll see about that — either way, BB had to fine some way to get them to start putting points on the board.
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by PaintDrinkingPete on Nov 3, 2010 10:06 AM EDT reply actions
The summer wasn’t good to him, it seems. He doesn’t seem rested or refreshed, and he’s even slower than he was before. Perhaps he’s no different from anyone else on the team and will get back into the swing, but I don’t have high hopes for him this year. God help us if he gets extended by GMGM.
by DrinkingPartner on Nov 3, 2010 10:12 AM EDT up reply actions
God help us if he gets extended by GMGM.
If he gets extended I will flood this place with “Peggy Olson head desk” GIFs.
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by YvonLabresMoustache on Nov 3, 2010 10:13 AM EDT up reply actions
Just use a subject line, please!
(not saying you wouldn’t).
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by PaintDrinkingPete on Nov 3, 2010 10:14 AM EDT up reply actions
God help us if he gets extended by GMGM.
Frightening thought.
Knuble’s struggles would have been the perfect opportunity for Fehr to get a tryout on the first line as his eventual replacement. For this reason Fehr’s struggles this year are even more disappointing. Hopefully he’ll turn it around and make the most of the possible opening.
I would definitely like to see Fehr get an opportunity on the top line. IMO, Knuble’s lack of speed and puck-handling ability really drags the line down sometimes, and Fehr is better in both of those areas.
"Now wait a minute. This is just purely a social call. You know, just two adults getting a stew on, man."
by The Ghost of Bebop on Nov 3, 2010 10:17 AM EDT up reply actions
I’ve been thinking that putting him up there with Ovie and Nick could possibly cure those struggles.
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
by twistedlogic on Nov 3, 2010 10:19 AM EDT up reply actions
Or break a few bones in his body and end the argument early.
by DrinkingPartner on Nov 3, 2010 10:21 AM EDT up reply actions
That would sure make the “to scratch or to dress Eric Fehr” decision easier!
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
by twistedlogic on Nov 3, 2010 10:23 AM EDT up reply actions
They should hold a contest to see who lasts longer in front of the net: Fehr or Flash!
by DrinkingPartner on Nov 3, 2010 10:27 AM EDT up reply actions
While I’ll grant you that he’s the better puckhandler in open ice, I think Fehr might be the only forward on the team slower than Knuble and Steckel.
And I hear you talk the talk, but I don't see you walk the walk and I still don't believe a thing you say.
Nawww. Fehr’s faster than Knuble. Not much, but anything’s something.
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
by twistedlogic on Nov 3, 2010 10:35 AM EDT up reply actions
Those results can be very surprising. (not necessarily for the Caps, just saying that in a non-game scenario, you’d be surprised which NHL players are extremely fast)
by Chris Burton on Nov 3, 2010 10:37 AM EDT up reply actions
Disagree. Fehr is noticeably faster than both Knuble and Steckel.
"Now wait a minute. This is just purely a social call. You know, just two adults getting a stew on, man."
by The Ghost of Bebop on Nov 3, 2010 10:39 AM EDT up reply actions
In a straight line? Doubt it. With the puck on his stick? Perhaps.
Beyond defensive awareness, there’s a reason Knuble kills penalties and Fehr doesn’t.
And I hear you talk the talk, but I don't see you walk the walk and I still don't believe a thing you say.
Fehr’s acceleration isn’t very good, but when he gets going he’s definitely faster than Knuble. Knuble has deceptive quickness, which is what makes him a decent PKer beyond defensive awareness, but in a straight line or with the puck on his stick Fehr is faster, IMO.
"Now wait a minute. This is just purely a social call. You know, just two adults getting a stew on, man."
by The Ghost of Bebop on Nov 3, 2010 10:48 AM EDT up reply actions
We’ll just agree to disagree then. Every time Fehr has been put up on the first or second line, he’s looked awkward and out of place, primarily because he can’t keep up with the play. Once the puck is in either zone, he’s fine, but he’s just not graceful in the neutral zone despite improving his skating over the last two years.
And I hear you talk the talk, but I don't see you walk the walk and I still don't believe a thing you say.
I agree that Fehr is slow on either the first or second line. But we’re talking about Ovi & Backstrom on line 1. And those guys move! Ovi with the powerful strides, and Backstrom just is always in the best spot to get open and/or to the puck first. On line 2, you’ve got “Flash” who can also move, and Semin, who can also really move (when he feels like it). Lots, and lots of NHLers would look slow on those lines.
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Fair enough. It’s kind of a hard argument to have since there’s no statistical method for quantifying player speed.
"Now wait a minute. This is just purely a social call. You know, just two adults getting a stew on, man."
by The Ghost of Bebop on Nov 3, 2010 11:10 AM EDT up reply actions
I just go by what I see. Fehr is clearly better with the puck on his stick, but Knuble never looks “slow” next to guys like Ovie or Semin, while Fehr always looks a step or two behind. Combine that with the fact that Knuble gets regular PK time and, at least in terms of “hockey speed,” I give the edge to Knuble. Not by much though.
And I hear you talk the talk, but I don't see you walk the walk and I still don't believe a thing you say.
Or mental speed for that matter. I think Fehr is always a step behind Ovie and Nicky because he isn’t reading/reacting to the play as fast as they are.
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
by twistedlogic on Nov 3, 2010 11:17 AM EDT up reply actions
That has almost nothing to do with his actual speed. Knuble doesn’t look lost with AO and Backstrom, and it’s not because he’s fast. Lots of slow guys manage to look fine with faster players, but that’s because of their ability to read the play and know where to be, not because they aren’t actually slow.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
Fehr’s plenty fast, but he’s not quick.
by DrinkingPartner on Nov 3, 2010 11:05 AM EDT up reply actions
Yep, exactly.
"Now wait a minute. This is just purely a social call. You know, just two adults getting a stew on, man."
by The Ghost of Bebop on Nov 3, 2010 11:09 AM EDT up reply actions
An accurate distinction, I think.
"Do you see my fist? It was fists like these that built quaint Canadian cities out of the harsh Canadian wilderness, etc. etc."
Not in Seattle anymore.
by SeattleCapsFan on Nov 3, 2010 11:15 AM EDT up reply actions
Agree — it’s not like anyone on the team has been on fire offensively, so the window of opportunity hasn’t exactly shut on anyone yet either.
Really anxious to see if they can pick up where they left off on Saturday (without the defense lapsing) this evening, and hoping it wasn’t just a fluke or anomaly.
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by PaintDrinkingPete on Nov 3, 2010 10:19 AM EDT up reply actions
Not worried about Knuble yet. He had several chances on the road trip that he failed to cash in on largely due to inaccurate shooting or mistiming the puck. He’s getting chances which tells me that he’s skating fast enough to get in position. If he keeps doing that the goals will come IMO.
Well, he needs at the very least start getting the type of goals, or at least scoring opportunities, he’s known for…in front of the net.
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by PaintDrinkingPete on Nov 3, 2010 10:16 AM EDT up reply actions
Knuble is averaging the 7th highest ice time among any Capital (14 and a half a game).
He has the worst PTS/60 of any Capital forward other than DJ King and David Steckel. He’s only been on the ice for three goals for (worst of any player on the team that’s played 10 games. And he’s spent the majority of his time with Ovechkin and Backstrom.
Eesh.
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by YvonLabresMoustache on Nov 3, 2010 10:28 AM EDT up reply actions
I’m not worried about Knuble. He’s not getting a ton of PP time (which is going to Laich instead), and he’s had some bad luck and faced some tough keepers. If he’s still shooting 3.1% in a month’s time, then I’ll be worried.
And I hear you talk the talk, but I don't see you walk the walk and I still don't believe a thing you say.
Wouldn’t the fact that he’s not getting a ton of PP time mean that he doesn’t really have the ability to play those minutes any longer at a high level?
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by YvonLabresMoustache on Nov 3, 2010 10:34 AM EDT up reply actions
No. I don’t really think it takes much skating ability to stand in front of the net.
But now that I look at it, Knube’s getting 3 mins a game. He’s not getting first-team time, but that’s not terrible either.
I think the goals will come and when they do, they’ll come in bunches.
And I hear you talk the talk, but I don't see you walk the walk and I still don't believe a thing you say.
Further, Knuble isn’t there only for his own production. Knuble’s been at the top of the league in PP-on-ice S% for the last two seasons and that’s not an accident. There’s literally no one better at screening the goalie and making his life tough. Holmstrom is as good, Smyth probably is to, but there’s no one who is distinctly better. He makes everyone on the ice a better effective shooter when he can do his thing in front of the net.
"Essentially, all models are wrong, but some are useful" George E.P. Box
by Knee high to a duck on Nov 3, 2010 12:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Goodness, folks. The man has always been a streaky scorer, and his production has always been dependent on his linemates producing. Moreover, his lack of scoring at the beginning of the season is nothing new for him.
For instance, last year, through the first 10 games, he had two goals and six assists. This year, he has one goal and four assists. He has three fewer points. Then again, last year, through his first 11 games, Alex Ovechkin had eleven goals and nine assists, while Nicklas Backstrom had three goals and twelve assists. In other words, he’s doing slightly worse this year than last year, and a lot of that is likely due to his linemates not producing nearly as much.
The year before that, he had six goals and four assists in his first 11 games. Then again, that was after putting up zero goals in his first six games and going on a five-game goal scoring streak. After that, he had zero goals or assists in his next five.
The year before that, he had three goals and three assists through his first 11 games.
Have a little patience.
In other Knuble Knews, I found out from my research that his middle name is Rudolf. That’s kind of awesome.
by Wheeler on Nov 3, 2010 10:51 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
So the Rink consensus seems to be “Love ya Knubs, but let’s make this your final year.”
New team motto for the 2010-2011 Caps: Win one for the Slippers.
I poured spot remover on my dog. Now he's gone.
by Rather Bengt on Nov 3, 2010 10:52 AM EDT up reply actions 6 recs
I don’t think he comes back next year for two reasons, and neither is related to his production. One of those reasons is that Fehr emerges and makes him replaceable; the other is that we’re going to re-sign Semin.
If we do bring Knuble back, it’s going to be for one year plus performance bonuses, and he’s going to be a third-liner who gets powerplay time.
My primary point was that (a) he’s looked off his game so far this season and (b) things needed to be shaken up on the top line. I’m certainly not pressing the panic button on him yet.
"I am ready for his provocations"
twitter
by PaintDrinkingPete on Nov 3, 2010 10:54 AM EDT up reply actions
What was I saying all summer long in the Knuble v Laich one sided discussion?
Oh yeah, Knuble’s 38 going to be 39 when his contract ends. So few players ever reach playing to that age in the NHL and the few that do are most often shadows of their previous selves.
Nicklas Lidstrom, for example, has slowly decayed over the years. For him though it’s been going from “the best in the league” to “a great d-man” Mike Modano sits in the same boat. Brodeur is definitely not the goalie he used to be, which still says a lot considering he plays 70 games a year and continuously makes his way into Vezina talks.
These guys are considerably more skilled than Knuble and show signs of their age which is the same or slightly older – I’m not saying Knuble is about to fall apart on us, but I do expect his production to be lower this year than lasts.
Bruce Boudreau when asked about Brooks Laich's return to the lineup, he said: "He just adds another dimension to our team. If it was puzzle, he just fits that thing. He completes us."
Brooks Laich completing everything from teams to tires and everything in between.
Modano this year has been just plain awful. With some guys, it’s not that gradual decline but a drop off a cliff.
Rearrange these words to make a sentence: coming it a away seen mile
I poured spot remover on my dog. Now he's gone.
by Rather Bengt on Nov 3, 2010 11:00 AM EDT up reply actions
For Modano, yes. I have no clue why he wanted to try and play another season when his last two years have been mediocre at best. He could’ve gone down as playing a full career with one team, and instead, he has that little blip at the end with terrible stats.
Bobby Orr playing with the Blackhawks. Joe Namath with the Rams. Tony Dorsett with the Broncos. Just a little sad.
Willie Mays with the Mets
I poured spot remover on my dog. Now he's gone.
by Rather Bengt on Nov 3, 2010 11:05 AM EDT up reply actions
Brett Favre with…oh, never mind.
You perhaps knew me better as "Your Nation's Capital." Same great commentary, now with 100% more transparency!
O.J. Simpson, anyone?
We're Hüsker Dü and we're on MTV. Who are you, and what are you on?
by bilspacecadet on Nov 3, 2010 3:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Yep
Life With Spidey -- a blog about sports, travel, work, family and fun.
Representing Caps fandom in the Gateway to the West.
Kolzig with the Lightning.
Release the Mackan!
by Killer_Carlson on Nov 3, 2010 2:09 PM EDT up reply actions
The One That Worked
Life With Spidey -- a blog about sports, travel, work, family and fun.
Representing Caps fandom in the Gateway to the West.
Knuble’s a different animal though. You’re comparing him to the wrong guys. Lidstrom and Modano both require speed for their game. Lidstrom can overcome that somewhat with smarts, but once the legs go, smarts can only do so much.
Knuble has avoided major injuries for the best part of his career. He’s not slow, but speed isn’t a huge part of his game. The guys he compares to (think Dave Andreychuk or Gary Roberts) actually had pretty long careers provided they stayed healthy.
And I hear you talk the talk, but I don't see you walk the walk and I still don't believe a thing you say.
But hands still go. The best power forwards of the past 20 years — John LeClair, Kevin Stevens, Rick Tocchet — had a decent second to last season, and then their final season was total crap.
had a decent second to last season, and then their final season was total crap./blockquote>
And the things you lose are always the last place you find them.
Stevens was brutal for years before he finally retired.
Leclair did drop off a cliff, but he also had tons of injuries.
Tocchet had one halfway decent season that had been preceded by several crappy ones and he had a ton of injuries.
My guess is that Knuble breaks out of this slump and puts up 25/25 before the season ends.
And I hear you talk the talk, but I don't see you walk the walk and I still don't believe a thing you say.
GOD DAMNIT. No more Chrome.
And I hear you talk the talk, but I don't see you walk the walk and I still don't believe a thing you say.
I thought you said Firefox was doing this to you? Chrome’s great with SBN stuff, in my experience.
by DrinkingPartner on Nov 3, 2010 11:26 AM EDT up reply actions
Agreed. Comparing Chrome with Firefox is like comparing Matty P to John Erskine (speed-wise)
by Steck It Out on Nov 3, 2010 11:31 AM EDT up reply actions
IE for the win!! But in all seriousness…..
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
by twistedlogic on Nov 3, 2010 11:31 AM EDT up reply actions
Firefox with ABP for the win, in my opinion.
"I am ready for his provocations"
twitter
by PaintDrinkingPete on Nov 3, 2010 12:19 PM EDT up reply actions
You can even see where the blockquote tag is supposed to end. Why the hell doesn’t it show in the preview?
And I hear you talk the talk, but I don't see you walk the walk and I still don't believe a thing you say.
You can even see where the blockquote tag is supposed to end. Why the hell doesn’t it show in the preview?
Posting this using Chrome on Windows XP.
"Semin had two goals this year, Perreault comes in and he gets three."
Preview worked, looks ok. Maybe page refresh or something?
"Semin had two goals this year, Perreault comes in and he gets three."
I had this same problem a few monfs ago where this kept happening. I remember I solved it by putting the tags in first, and then putting the text in between instead of highlighting and hitting the quote button.
It takes a special kind of man to be a Scuttlin' Crab Man
Box Seats Blog
Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Nov 3, 2010 11:12 AM EDT up reply actions
That’s what I always do.
"Do you see my fist? It was fists like these that built quaint Canadian cities out of the harsh Canadian wilderness, etc. etc."
Not in Seattle anymore.
by SeattleCapsFan on Nov 3, 2010 11:16 AM EDT up reply actions
Mac.
And this has never happened before.
And I hear you talk the talk, but I don't see you walk the walk and I still don't believe a thing you say.
Ya, Idk D’ohboy. I’ve always just been able to
type bq, type what I want, and skip a line and be fine
like so, also using chrome. never used the / block quote end thing tho
Bruce Boudreau when asked about Brooks Laich's return to the lineup, he said: "He just adds another dimension to our team. If it was puzzle, he just fits that thing. He completes us."
Brooks Laich completing everything from teams to tires and everything in between.
I wasn’t trying to make a comparison directly because all of them are quite different players. The last little bit was just a generality that even if great players decline so do most everyone else.
Knuble, for never being a headline himself, has done very well for himself over his career playing in the shadows and putting up good numbers without ever really being sidelined. But if you look at his stats he definitely already peaked and was slowly declining, until he came to the Caps – a decidedly more offensive team – and bounced back up a little.
I kind of wonder if he still can be a first liner, his production should slip a little, I’m saying like 52 points max this season, but does that still make him a top line guy? Or does he stay bounced down to the 2nd and his production will take a much larger hit.
Bruce Boudreau when asked about Brooks Laich's return to the lineup, he said: "He just adds another dimension to our team. If it was puzzle, he just fits that thing. He completes us."
Brooks Laich completing everything from teams to tires and everything in between.
Knuble’s production since 02-03 has been remarkably steady. I’m not seeing the decline/peak you’re referring to.
And I hear you talk the talk, but I don't see you walk the walk and I still don't believe a thing you say.
05-06___31-34-65
06-07___24-30-54
07-08___29-26-55
08-09___20-27-47
09-10___29-24-53
His 05-06 was his best season total points and production rate for his career. From 05-09 he was on the Flyers and dipped a bit. He didn’t fall of a cliff, and probably won’t ever(well unless he’s still trying to play at 45!) but it seems to indicate to me his production was going down, before coming to play with Alex and Nicky. And even that could be argued as a slip in points because….they are Alex Ovechkin and Nick Backstrom 2 of the top 5/10 (depending on who you ask) players in the league.
Bruce Boudreau when asked about Brooks Laich's return to the lineup, he said: "He just adds another dimension to our team. If it was puzzle, he just fits that thing. He completes us."
Brooks Laich completing everything from teams to tires and everything in between.
For Your Consideration... Dave Andreychuk
A player who played a similar type game to Knuble and scored many goals in front of the net. His offensive peaks were higher (scoring over 40 goals 3 times, a high of 53 in 1993-1994) and also had a drop in scoring as his career went on, although he still scored over 20 goals in his last 4 years in the NHL). He was well loved by fans of the teams he went to (We call Knubs Grandpa Slippers, he was called “Uncle Dave” by Leafs fans. That said he was a vital part of a Stanley Cup winning team in his final full year in 2003-2004.
I poured spot remover on my dog. Now he's gone.
by Rather Bengt on Nov 3, 2010 11:44 AM EDT up reply actions
Anyone think we’ll see some DJ King v. Colton Orr action tonight? I do not believe the two have ever gone. Orr has not been fighting much this year, but his team sucks, so maybe he’ll do it to stir the pot.
If King is in the lineup, I think you can bank on it unless the Leafs jump out to an early lead.
And I hear you talk the talk, but I don't see you walk the walk and I still don't believe a thing you say.
The Leafs aren’t a terrible team, but if they want to get going early, then we could see some fisticuffs.
by Steck It Out on Nov 3, 2010 10:48 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
No, I agree they aren’t terrible, but they’ve lost three in a row, 6 out of 7, and are getting booed at home, especially Phaneuf who is being called the “$7 million turnstyle.” Given the media and fan pressure, etc. I am sure they feel under the gun.
They’re under pressure to win, especially after their good start. So I wouldn’t put it past them to try and get some energy going early.
by Steck It Out on Nov 3, 2010 11:32 AM EDT up reply actions
I haven’t seen an update on Phaneuf for tonight. Has anyone?
Life With Spidey -- a blog about sports, travel, work, family and fun.
Representing Caps fandom in the Gateway to the West.
She’s already a more reliable reporter than Damien Cox.
by Steck It Out on Nov 3, 2010 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Dead horse -
Did you see his article last night about those poor teams with injured stars that can’t replace them and why the salary cap is a problem? Poor babies.
Life With Spidey -- a blog about sports, travel, work, family and fun.
Representing Caps fandom in the Gateway to the West.
Ha! Yeah…that’s two dead horses, actually, “Damien Cox is an ass” and “teams who can’t replace injured stars b/c of the cap only have themselves to blame”. Nice work, Spidey ;)
If anyone needs me, I'll be at Kettler.
He is a massive, massive ass. I missed yesterday, so I presume that there’s already been discussion about his latest anti-Caps, anti-Ovi, anti-Ted bullshit write-up that passes for journalism on the lowest threshold ever.
Life With Spidey -- a blog about sports, travel, work, family and fun.
Representing Caps fandom in the Gateway to the West.
NB:
Yesterday’s discussion of That Ass included a reminder that it’s worth the trouble to Not Click on his articles. He’s a troll, and keeping his page hits down is Caps-fan PK.
There's no 'i' in "team". But there's a 'nap' in "champion".
by redlineblue on Nov 3, 2010 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Whoops, now the Leafs issued a statement saying that @CuthbertElisha is fake, so ignore that twitter post.
AVERY!
It takes a special kind of man to be a Scuttlin' Crab Man
Box Seats Blog
Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Nov 3, 2010 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions
The cut on his leg he got last night is apparently keeping him out tonight.
"DON'T SAY THAT! Please! That is the worst, most stupid thing anyone could say! Cause it quite clearly isn't "only a game." I mean if it was do you honestly think I'd care this much?"
by Bald Pollack on Nov 3, 2010 11:34 AM EDT up reply actions
I guess that means they have to play Brett Lebda. Yikes.
by Chris Burton on Nov 3, 2010 11:36 AM EDT up reply actions
Lebda > Fahey?
Life With Spidey -- a blog about sports, travel, work, family and fun.
Representing Caps fandom in the Gateway to the West.
Well, yeah. But the Caps clearly have more ways to exploit Lebda’s problems than the Leafs do Fahey.
by Chris Burton on Nov 3, 2010 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions
Uh, yes. By a lot.
"Essentially, all models are wrong, but some are useful" George E.P. Box
by Knee high to a duck on Nov 3, 2010 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Which is more commentary on how bad Fahey is than Lebda being half-way decent. The Leafs blueline is actually pretty deep.
"Essentially, all models are wrong, but some are useful" George E.P. Box
by Knee high to a duck on Nov 3, 2010 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions
In Girl Who Played with Fire, Bloomquist used duct tape to close up Lisbeth’s gun shot wounds.
Just a thought.
Life With Spidey -- a blog about sports, travel, work, family and fun.
Representing Caps fandom in the Gateway to the West.
by STLSpidey on Nov 3, 2010 11:37 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
I know this is off topic, but is that book (Dragon Tattoo) the most overrated blockbuster since the DaVinci Code? I know the guy died before he could work with an editor, but man, that thing was way overwritten.
Sorry – can’t agree. I loved all three. If I recall correctly, so did RedBirdie and B23. Not that we’re book experts, but just saying.
Life With Spidey -- a blog about sports, travel, work, family and fun.
Representing Caps fandom in the Gateway to the West.
and my dad has “borrowed” my copies and has yet to give them back! apparently he’s quite addicted.
Pledge Drive 2010-2011: SO KIDS CAN!! Help build a playground
His GF tweeted
Out for about 4 weeks. Not a happy camper, but wants to get himself back in working condition. Thanks for the support.
It takes a special kind of man to be a Scuttlin' Crab Man
Box Seats Blog
Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Nov 3, 2010 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Seriously? From the girlfriend. Wow, twitter is a miracle. TMZ must have like 20 interns following the twitter pages of every pro-athlete’s current (and most recent ex) girlfriend.
Country Gentlemen's Pig Fertilizer Gazette
Dunny-on-the-World
http://www.nationalpost.com/todays-paper/Washington+capitalizes+offensive+reunion/3767742/story.html
You perhaps knew me better as "Your Nation's Capital." Same great commentary, now with 100% more transparency!
From Emily’s link:
In the 18 games they started together as a unit last season — apart from their time together on the power-play during most games — Ovechkin, Backstrom and Semin combined for 39 goals and 91 points in those games.
To quote Alex, that’s sick.
"I would feed them lefts until I was pretty much tired of doing it." - Alan May, JRR, 10.16.2010
“We’ll see how long it lasts until they start getting too [fancy] playing with each other instead of doing the right thing,” Boudreau said.
Anyone know what BB said that got replaced as “fancy”? The WaPo made the same alteration.
"Hockey is my life, wine is my passion." -- Igor Larionov
by Scott in Shaw on Nov 3, 2010 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions
He likes to describe them as “cute” all the time. That would be my guess.
"Semin had two goals this year, Perreault comes in and he gets three."
Why would they edit that?
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
Caps dropped from 4 to 5 overall in HF’s organizational rankings.
5. Washington Capitals
Strengths: With Jose Theodore’s exit comes a new era of goaltending in Washington. The tandem of Semyon Varlamov and Michal Neuvirth are the foundation of a strong Capitals’ prospect group. Equally promising are the team’s two top defensive prospects, John Carlson and Karl Alzner. Marcus Johansson, Evgeny Kuznetzov, and Mathieu Perreault headline an offensively talented group of forwards, which is especially deep at center. Weaknesses: The Capitals have depth issues on both wings, particularly on the left side. Aside from Carlson, Alzner, and possibly Dmitri Orlov, the Capitals have very few sure NHLers on the back end. The Capitals look to have lost a talented prospect in Anton Gustafsson, their 2008 first round pick who recently stepped away from the game of hockey. Top 5 Prospects: 1. Semyon Varlamov, G, 2. John Carlson, D, 3. Karl Alzner, D, 4. Michal Neuvirth, G, 5. Marcus Johansson, C. Lost to Trade: Stefan Della Rovere.
http://www.hockeysfuture.com/articles/12460/hockeys_future_organizational_rankings_fall2010110/
Preds, Kings, Oilers, and Panthers round out the top 5.
If our top 5 “prospects” are currently (barring injury) starting in the NHL, then I guess I don’t understand these rankings or what a prospect is.
Eat, drink, and be merry! And then drink some more.
Less than 70 or so NHL GP for skaters, not sure about goalies. I guess once you hit UFA you’re automatically disqualified too.
by red army line on Nov 3, 2010 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Wow
According to Dreger:
Phaneuf suffered a deep cut last night. Burke says he’s out at least 4 weeks.
Life With Spidey -- a blog about sports, travel, work, family and fun.
Representing Caps fandom in the Gateway to the West.
Yep he got tangled up along the boards and was cut by Peter Regn’s skate. He left the ice immediately putting no weight on the injured leg.
I poured spot remover on my dog. Now he's gone.
by Rather Bengt on Nov 3, 2010 12:03 PM EDT up reply actions
similar to what happened to Corvo last season?
Pledge Drive 2010-2011: SO KIDS CAN!! Help build a playground
Yeah it was not too pretty looking and happened right as a disputed goal was going on. The Sportsnet team seemed to pay more attention to Phaneuf’s injurey than the goal.
I poured spot remover on my dog. Now he's gone.
by Rather Bengt on Nov 3, 2010 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions
He walked off the ice but left the arena on a stretcher with his leg heavily bandaged and iced.
You perhaps knew me better as "Your Nation's Capital." Same great commentary, now with 100% more transparency!
You perhaps knew me better as "Your Nation's Capital." Same great commentary, now with 100% more transparency!
Interesting quote in that article:
In related media release today, the Leafs issued this statement at roughly the same time: “Please note that Elisha Cuthbert does not a have a Twitter account. Please refrain from quoting this false source in future reporting. Thanks for the co-operation.”
Think Sean Avery set up a fake Elisha Cuthbert twitter account? Bummer for Dion.
Just trying to capture the spirit of the thing...
I’d like to see those Kevlar-threaded socks be mandatory equipment for our players.
by DrinkingPartner on Nov 3, 2010 2:03 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Yea, and the Bradley helmets. And I honestly don’t know why players don’t wear a shield, unless they plan on fighting.
Proud member of the Popsicle Division of the Cupcake Conference.
The helmets and shields are preference-based. Socks are socks, unless they’re talking normal socks as opposed to hockey socks, which is what I had in my mind.
by DrinkingPartner on Nov 3, 2010 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions
I’ve not worn them, but I think the kevlar socks might be thicker than normal socks and perhaps not as comfortable. You are talking about players who won’t wear updated head gear because it doesn’t look good on them, so I doubt guys would be wlling to use kevlar socks if they don’t feel and perform the same as normal socks.
Just trying to capture the spirit of the thing...
For some reason, I was initially thinking they’d be kevlar hockey socks, which, if a little thicker and heavier externally, won’t make their equipment/skates feel weird. I’d guess that’s the next step, though.
by DrinkingPartner on Nov 3, 2010 4:33 PM EDT up reply actions
I wear some Kevlar motorcycle gear and that s—t is HOT — hotter than my leathers, hotter than my best prom night, hotter than D’oh after a pithy BL21 quote. It’s not necessarily thick, but it’s for damn sure not comfortable, especially if you’re doing fancy stuff. Like moving around.
There's no 'i' in "team". But there's a 'nap' in "champion".
by redlineblue on Nov 3, 2010 4:51 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
knee high/F&B, et al
I hate to say you told me so, but both of you have several times, so I’m here to own up – in doing deeper research today, and watching the team in his absence, I’m beginning to believe that Ryan Suter is more important to the Nashville Predators than Shea Weber, and as such, is probably a better hockey player.
Ouch.
by Chris Burton on Nov 3, 2010 12:19 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
So, um,
Does this mean the Caps can have Weber for Fleischmann now?
There's no 'i' in "team". But there's a 'nap' in "champion".
I’ll sweeten the deal and throw Sloan in, if it makes a difference to Poile.
Life With Spidey -- a blog about sports, travel, work, family and fun.
Representing Caps fandom in the Gateway to the West.
If by “Sloan”, you mean “Backstrom”, then we may have a deal. :p
by Chris Burton on Nov 3, 2010 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Backstrom for Weber and Suter? Yes Sir!!
Life With Spidey -- a blog about sports, travel, work, family and fun.
Representing Caps fandom in the Gateway to the West.
Actually — no.
Life With Spidey -- a blog about sports, travel, work, family and fun.
Representing Caps fandom in the Gateway to the West.
I wouldn’t make that deal either so its ok.
by Chris Burton on Nov 3, 2010 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions
So Green is definitely better than Weber?
Many a night from yonder ivied casement, ere I went to rest,
Did I look on great Orion sloping slowly to the West.
no as in “no, Green is so far ahead of Weber can’t even see him with a telescope?”
One day you’ll be converted to the greenlife.
Many a night from yonder ivied casement, ere I went to rest,
Did I look on great Orion sloping slowly to the West.
Ha. Not exactly. I’m not a Green hater by any stretch of the imagination, but even objectively I’d take Weber before anyone but Keith, I think, in a vacuum.
by Chris Burton on Nov 3, 2010 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions
I just wonder if you put Doughty or Green in Nashville how they would look in comparison to Weber.
The Artist Formerly Known as CP2Devil.
Links guy at Five For Howling.
Impossible to say, because its so hard to measure Weber’s abilities outside of Suter. I don’t think Green would do as well simply because of the surrounding talent and system, not because of his ability.
by Chris Burton on Nov 3, 2010 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Let’s just put it this way: when AO’s out of the lineup, everyone steps up for their fallen/missing Captain. When Mike Green’s out of the lineup, the team Defense crumbles like a shortbread cookie. It’s not the talent around Green that makes him what he is.
by DrinkingPartner on Nov 3, 2010 2:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Right, no disagreement there, but its because you don’t have secondary and tertiary defensemen as good as Ryan Suter or Kevin Klein (though Alzner and Carlson will surpass KK very, very shortly).
I don’t think this is a “Green looks better by comparison” type of deal, though. Green is a completely unique player in that he does what he does better than anybody else in the league, and that the Caps seriously depend on that skillset (which Carlson may or may not develop in a few more years). I don’t think Weber or Suter can claim that kind of role on their team.
But that’s open to debate.
by DrinkingPartner on Nov 3, 2010 2:13 PM EDT up reply actions
I’d take Green first and the more I think about it, it’s not really all that close for me. The things Green has (speed, offensive acumen/ice vision) are un-teachable and don’t develop with age, while his shortcomings (defensive acumen) tend to diminish with experience. I was worried last year that he was gaining too much weight and losing his speed, but after seeing the shape he’s in this year, that worry has subsided.
And I hear you talk the talk, but I don't see you walk the walk and I still don't believe a thing you say.
I understand what you’re saying, and I certainly think Green is an elite defenseman, but Weber is significantly better on defense and I’m confident he’d put up unbiblical numbers in a system with Ovechkin, Backstrom, and Semin.
Basically, he’s enough better defensively and close enough on offense that I think Weber’s the better no. 1 defenseman.
I wonder if you would you think that if he’d been paired with Shaonne Morrison for a significant amount of time as opposed to Ryan Suter.
Just to be clear, I’m not sure which one I like better right now which is a testament to how good they both are.
The Artist Formerly Known as CP2Devil.
Links guy at Five For Howling.
Probably so. He’s been paired with Francis Bouillon for the past 6 games and still produced/played at an extremely high level, and the difference between Bouillon and Morrisonn is negligible at best. Small sample size, but still.
I’d agree there.
I’m interested to see that pairing in action tonight.
The Artist Formerly Known as CP2Devil.
Links guy at Five For Howling.
They usually start the game together, but Weber will play with every other defenseman at times throughout the game. The Weber/Klein pairing has been the best, IMO, but I’m not the coach.
I’m hoping for a Sulzer/Weber pairing myself.
The Artist Formerly Known as CP2Devil.
Links guy at Five For Howling.
Very, very small sample size. I don’t know how bad Boullion is, but I know Morrisonn is overpaid by about 1.2 mil at 2.0 mil a year with BUF. Not a guy you should have skating with Mike Green.
"Essentially, all models are wrong, but some are useful" George E.P. Box
by Knee high to a duck on Nov 3, 2010 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions
If Bouillon is a very capable 4D, then he is significantly better than ShaMo.
The guy is Peter Schumpmaker. Lord knows what a schump is, but you can bet your bippy his ancestors made them. What he's doing is far worse than crafting fine schumps.
by Steckel Me Elmo on Nov 3, 2010 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Morrisonn is a barely acceptable 6D in that he’s better than Erskine and Sloan. He’s at the very bottom of NHL-caliber and he’s not hanging on by much. Dumb as a goddamn rock.
"Essentially, all models are wrong, but some are useful" George E.P. Box
by Knee high to a duck on Nov 3, 2010 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Whether he was or wasn’t Morrison was paired with Green for a fair amount of his time in D.C. Boullion is marginally better, but not by some huge amount. He’s only playing with Weber because Suter is out. My point was Green played most of his formative years with guys who were nowhere near Suter’s level.
The Artist Formerly Known as CP2Devil.
Links guy at Five For Howling.
Green has an ability to be a “one-man” breakout that Weber doesn’t. Weber has a better slapshot, but I think that’s one of the most overrated skills in the NHL because unscreened point shots almost never beat keepers anymore.
Weber’s a bit better defensively right now (and I think the gap is getting smaller by the day), and defensive acumen is something that improves as players get older.
The one thing that concerns me about Green is his tendency to get injured and his apparent mental frailty. I give him a pass on the latter because he’s still pretty young.
And I hear you talk the talk, but I don't see you walk the walk and I still don't believe a thing you say.
Then you have to worry about Weber injuring his teammates with that shot. He’s put what, four top-6 offensive players on the IR with that thing in the last few years? It’s not as bad as Green’s injury-proneness, but it’s a noticeable trend.
"Essentially, all models are wrong, but some are useful" George E.P. Box
by Knee high to a duck on Nov 3, 2010 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions
its getting embarrassing
- broke David Legwand’s jaw
- broke Patric Hornqvist’s wrist
- broke Jordin Tootoo’s foot
- broke Martin Erat’s ankle
All in the space of 12 months. Now, is the risk worth it to have a franchise defenseman who can shut down the game’s best players and score 23 goals? Sure, but its still annoying, I’ll grant you that.
Weber’s a bit better defensively right now (and I think the gap is getting smaller by the day), and defensive acumen is something that improves as players get older.
This is where I completely disagree – I think the gap is pretty large, but its really a subjective argument.
Weber’s much more durable and stronger mentally, for sure – he gets much better as the games get more important. Team hasn’t followed so far, but still.
I think this comment is the first time I can say I truly disagree with you on this subject. Weber is better right now, but the difference isn’t that significant.
The Artist Formerly Known as CP2Devil.
Links guy at Five For Howling.
Fair enough, but it comes down to whether or not I’d be comfortable putting Mike Green against Alex Ovechkin, Sidney Crosby, Steven Stamkos, Rick Nash, or whoever when the season was on the line, and the fact is I would not – yet. Certainly moreso than, say, Brent Seabrook or Dan Boyle, but not Weber.
Is it subjective because we’ll both be biased towards our own guy or is it subjective because of the systems they play in? Nashville’s system is notoriously more defensive-minded, while Washington’s is one where defensemen like Green are encouraged to not only join the rush but often start and/or lead.
To some extent it could be one of those "chicken or the egg" situations like Brodeur in NJ – is the system more defensive because of Marty or does he benefit from a more defensive system? Is Nashville’s system built like that because of Weber’s skills (and the Caps’ system because of Green’s) or do each of them just benefit from their respective teams’ systems?
Either way, I think it’s unfair to say Green is that far behind Weber defensively just because he’s asked to do more (and is capable of doing more) offensively.
If anyone needs me, I'll be at Kettler.
The one thing that concerns me about Green is his tendency to get injured and his apparent mental frailty. I give him a pass on the latter because he’s still pretty young.
I know this is going to fall under your favorite category of guys just saying the right thing, and I’d agree that in this case I won’t fully believe it until he proves it in April/May/June…and it’s definitely just my personal observation…but doesn’t Green seem calmer, more confident and more composed this year? On the ice, in interviews, etc. I’ve said it before, I really think yoga was a great move for him.
If anyone needs me, I'll be at Kettler.
It’s not just you, though I’d hope he keeps some of that in reserve in April.
"DON'T SAY THAT! Please! That is the worst, most stupid thing anyone could say! Cause it quite clearly isn't "only a game." I mean if it was do you honestly think I'd care this much?"
Definitely agree. Just makes me feel good to see it right now, I’m not sure I’ve ever seen him look this comfortable. I feel like he shoulders so much criticism, most of it unfair (partly why I’m so protective of him at times) – it’d be nice if he was able to use it to fuel his performance rather than weigh it down.
If anyone needs me, I'll be at Kettler.
Well the quotes in that Duhatschek would seem to run counter (in tone) to stuff he’s said in previous years, but I could have been reading too much into that too early in the morning.
"DON'T SAY THAT! Please! That is the worst, most stupid thing anyone could say! Cause it quite clearly isn't "only a game." I mean if it was do you honestly think I'd care this much?"
I think the sports psychologist he saw/sees is worth at least twice what he’s paying.
"It's always good to have vikings."
by gfcaps fan on Nov 3, 2010 1:52 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
that sports shrink should be nominated for sainthood. Getting Green’s head screwed on straight is a miracle.
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No, we’re in full agreement on this one.
And I hear you talk the talk, but I don't see you walk the walk and I still don't believe a thing you say.
Wow…I feel like I should screencap this comment for posterity ;)
If anyone needs me, I'll be at Kettler.
This will totally ruin the radio show.
John Carlson - Glory follows him.
Six Beers Too Many Fantasy Team - BizNasty's Hobo Rodeo
A guest appearance from Howlin’ Mad Murphy will get it back on track.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
by Rob Parker on Nov 3, 2010 5:32 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I hate to have you come to that conclusion, because he’s been sitting on my IR slot.
We’ll see what the team does if Weber misses extended time, but Suter is very, very good. They’re both top-10 defenders, IMO, and you should count yourself lucky that you get to cheer for both of them on the same pairing and that they’re so well matched.
But further to the point, important to the team and better player aren’t necessarily the same thing. Weber holds a top pairing on his own, just not the best top-pairing in the league. I’m not good enough at judging hockey talent to tell the difference in overall effectiveness apart, but I do know that Suter is a better skater and much smoother at breaking out.
"Essentially, all models are wrong, but some are useful" George E.P. Box
by Knee high to a duck on Nov 3, 2010 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Exactly. I think Suter is more important, but Weber better.
Without Suter, we’ve been outshot every night, and had a much harder time getting out of the defensive zone. Suter has the best shots for per 60 on the team, and the lowest shots against/60. The engine just doesn’t run as smoothly when he’s out, and the difference, to me, is starker than when Weber’s out. I would still contend Weber is the better hockey player, but its close, and its really near impossible to tell because the two are attached at the hip.
Well one thing that is easily agreed on is that Suter, Green and guys like them are the single most important part of the defense. Weber is amazing, but I don’t think you can legitimately pick him ahead of Green unless you have Keith or Lidstrom inked into your lineup. After that, you get guys like Weber and don’t even think twice.
Many a night from yonder ivied casement, ere I went to rest,
Did I look on great Orion sloping slowly to the West.
Slightly OT, but jersey question. If you’re going to buy a jersey, would you get the white Winter Classic jersey or the standard Red one? My first thought is red since its really hard to rock the red while wearing white.
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
Rock the whatever you want to spend your money on.
"Semin had two goals this year, Perreault comes in and he gets three."
Well yea…but for the same price, which would be more appropriate? I feel like the WC jersey is a one-shot deal that isn’t entirely versatile, but its slightly cooler than buying the red one which seemingly everyone in VC has.
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
i don’t think anyone will give you any shit for a WC jersey.
by DrinkingPartner on Nov 3, 2010 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions
And if they do, they’re just assholes.
"Essentially, all models are wrong, but some are useful" George E.P. Box
by Knee high to a duck on Nov 3, 2010 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
You perhaps knew me better as "Your Nation's Capital." Same great commentary, now with 100% more transparency!
From 9 a.m. to noon, Comcast-Spectacor is holding a “If You Can Carry It, You Can Keep It” event in which fans can pay $25 to get into the Spectrum and walk away with anything they can carry out of the building.
How is that different from any other game they ever played there?
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Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Nov 3, 2010 3:07 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
Rio Grande Valley Killer Bees special Star Wars Night Jersey
<img src=“a href=”http://photobucket.com/images/rio%20grande%20valley%20killer%20bees" target="_blank">
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I poured spot remover on my dog. Now he's gone.
by Rather Bengt on Nov 3, 2010 3:57 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
that jersey is so full of /win, i’m afraid it’s going to fall to the dark-side
Soon the Championship with be ours, all ours!
Evil will always triumph, because good is dumb.
And I hear you talk the talk, but I don't see you walk the walk and I still don't believe a thing you say.
by D'ohboy on Nov 3, 2010 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Wattup Caps fans!
Just thought i’d pop by and say:
GO LEAFS GO!
/runs for the door
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E"
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