Recap: Islanders 4, Caps 3 (OT)
by David M. Getz on Oct 30, 2009 10:09 PM EDT
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74 comments
[AP Recap - Game Center - Game Summary - Event Summary]
The Washington Capitals have a heck of a record this season - no one can dispute that. They've also had some inconsistent efforts, a few lucky bounces and, truth be told, won some games they probably didn't deserve to. It'd be easy to look at last night's game on a superficial level and declare it a failure on the team's part; to say that the team tonight's lost the point they maybe shouldn't have taken out of Long Island. But while there's no doubt the Capitals could have played better the reality is that they were played a hard working team, on a bad ice surface, on the day after a game with travel in between. Certainly they could have won; possibly the should have won. But we can live with the result.
Ten additional thoughts on last night's game:
- No matter the result, the story tonight was Tomas Fleischmann. For one night at least, we all saw what Bruce Boudreau sees on a regular basis: a guy capable of being a major offensive force in the National Hockey League. What's even more impressive is how Flash made his impact. We're accustomed to a guy who spends most of the game on the perimeter and tries to produce by relying on his skill. But tonight we saw a guy who was willing to get to the dirty areas - the corners, the front of the net - to help his team. What's more is that Fleischmann was able to do with without sacrificing the speed and agility that's given him success in the past. In short, just a hell of a night for a guy whose fought his way back to the lineup from a downright frighting injury.
- The game's underway, and the crowd's in to it. The Islanders take a four minute penalty. Blood is in the water. The Caps knows it. The fans know it. The Islanders know it. And out comes Washington's first firstplay unit of Alex Ovechkin, Mike Green, Alexander Semin, Nicklas Backstrom and...Tomas Fleischmann.
Sigh.Good thinking, Coach. - Ovechkin-to-Semin-to-Backstrom halfway through the first was as bad as the carebear line gets; after the game Boudreau simply said of Semin's pass, "It was a dumb play".
- Nicklas Backstrom looks off. Making bad passes, giving the puck away, and struggling with his skating stride. Something's not quite right with him, and neither injury nor illness would surprise me.
- The ice quality at Verizon Center is bad enough that it's usually not worth mentioning that it's bad on a day to day basis. That said: tonight's ice was bad.
- Brian Pothier has all but disappeared since his assist against the Rangers. There's value in the "I didn't notice him, and that's a good thing" approach when you're talking about defensemen, but at some point a puck-mover like Potsy has got to create something.
- I'm not going to say that Mike Knuble's goal interference penalty shouldn't have been called, but I am going to say that I wouldn't have been surprised if that had been the first time I'd ever seen a goalie called for a dive.
- Look, it's hard to play in your own end as a defenseman in the NHL, and there's an awful lot to keep track of. That said, Tom Poti needs to find a way to stop screening his goalies.
- Milan Jurcina had 16:06 of total ice time; 2:32 shorthanded. Shaone Morrisonn had 14:43; 0:40 shorthanded. I guess we know how Boudreau would have voted on Friday's Pick 'Em.
- Say what you want about the pucks that got through, but Jose Theodore had a couple of very nice saves tonight - and at key moments, no less.
Things should get interesting this Sunday - it might not really be possible to have a "grudge match" with a Western Conference opponent, but the Caps have got to feel like they have something to prove to the Blue Jackets after being swept by identical 3-0 scores in their two meetings last season.
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Things should get interesting this Sunday – it might not really be possible to have a “grudge match” with a Western Conference opponent, but the Caps have got to feel like they have something to prove to the Blue Jackets after being swept by identical 3-0 scores in their two meetings last season.
And the Blue Jackets just lost a shootout at home to the depleted Pens.
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by Your Nation's Capital on Oct 30, 2009 10:16 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
they lost that game?
they were up 3-1!!!
by twistedlogic on Oct 31, 2009 12:20 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Penguins are always dangerous. They scored twice in the last three minutes to tie it up, and then Crosby got the only goal in the shootout. The Kid is now 4 for 4 in shootouts this year.
I will also note that the Blue Jackets had a full house last night. A house full of Penguins fans, that is. From the NHL on the Fly highlights that I saw, I’d say at least half and maybe as much as 2/3 of the audience was cheering for the Pens. So it was essentially a home game for them.
And for some reason the Jackets chose to wear their road whites for this game, which allowed the Pens to wear those awful baby blues.
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by Your Nation's Capital on Oct 31, 2009 9:14 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Penguins have that nice 11-2 record, but four of those wins have come from the Gimmick. Last year a team started 10-2-1 with two Gimmick wins and four other one-goal wins to their credit. That was the Rangers. Are the Penguins better? Yes. Are they clearly the head-and-shoulders dominant team of the early going. We don’t think so.
If you've read this far...seek help.
by ThePeerless on Oct 31, 2009 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rec’d because Peerless always speaks the truth.
And let’s not forget that a couple of their wins in general and a couple of their gimmick wins, including last night’s, were come-from-behind wins. It’s not like they’re steamrolling over teams from the opening faceoff and never letting up..
Except Montreal, of course…but I’m pretending that one didn’t happen.
by Becca H on Oct 31, 2009 4:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
the Penguins opponents haven’t been of particularly impressive quality early on, either.
by RedBirdie on Oct 31, 2009 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, but.
The Penguins are showing consistently that they are willing to grind it out and do the work for their wins. 4-0 in the Gimmick is still eight points and a quiet sense of satisfaction.
Further to my Pens fans point, this:
http://penguins.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=504276
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by Your Nation's Capital on Oct 31, 2009 4:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
But the other numbers are great here, too – 4th in GA/G, 7th in GF/G, 2nd in 5-on-5 ratio… those numbers say they’ve been pretty dominant so far.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
by J.P. on Oct 31, 2009 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Flash has been off to a great first two games. I hope it continues.
"My face is my mask."
by jakeshapiro on Oct 30, 2009 10:23 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Eight game point streak, 13 points in 8 games — not too shabby.
Aren’t you supposed to feel better after a win than after an OTL?
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Oct 30, 2009 10:32 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Solid point, and I apreciate the perspective, but Caps really ought to beat the Islanders.
by mechanicsville on Oct 30, 2009 10:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I feel like I’ve been Kanye Wested.
“I’m going to let you finish making your point, but the 2009 New York Islanders are one of the worst teams of all time. Of all time.”
(Not that I disagree…)
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Oct 30, 2009 11:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sounds like maybe I offended you. Sure didn’t mean to. Maybe I missed your original point.
by mechanicsville on Oct 31, 2009 11:35 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not offended. Just found it funny.
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Oct 31, 2009 11:41 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Another interesting tidbit from the press conference was Boudreau mentioning that he thought very hard about breaking up the carebear line. Noted that he sometimes has to break them up because they try to pass to each other too much instead of taking the shot. Also said that he didn’t break them up because every time he thought about doing it there was a penalty or power play, and it would have messed with the other lines too much.
Expect them to be broken up by Sunday.
by Kolzilla on Oct 30, 2009 10:34 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
The Lighthouse Hockey recap is worth a read.
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by Your Nation's Capital on Oct 30, 2009 10:50 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Lighthouse Hockey’s always worth a read – good writing and a healthy dose of Ranger hate, that’s a winning combination in my book :)
by Becca H on Oct 30, 2009 11:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That is good, thanks for the pointer. It’s right on — before the game, I was trying to explain to my husband (an indifferent hockey fan) the heights from which the Islanders have fallen. And after the game, I told him that it seemed like the Isles were right on the verge.
"Camaraderie, that's what the Washington Capitals are all about."
by CapitalCentre on Oct 30, 2009 11:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
As much as I would like to credit the Isles with a win, it was a Caps loss, and nothing else. I like Lighthouse, but really, it was less the Isles execution than the Caps sucking that decided this game.
"I think the relentless negative coverage in The Washington Post is a real difference from previous years," Redskins general counsel David Donovan said. "But in terms of the way our actual fans are behaving, we don't see any difference."
by Sct112 on Oct 31, 2009 12:45 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It’s hard to look at a game like this without a biased eye if you root for one of the teams involved. The winners see it as a great performance for them, the losers see it as their team not executing.
It’s why I always find it funny to read press clippings from the opponent’s city the day after losing to the Caps, especially Canadian teams, and see how differently they saw it.
by Becca H on Oct 31, 2009 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Knuble had an ugly game, or at least from my seats.
And not the good ugly we all want.
The atmosphere was bad! It’s either that or the Iced mocha I had before the game just made me extra perky.
"And next year it will be ours."
by Ovechwin on Oct 30, 2009 10:56 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Nice summary DMG. Theo played well and deserved better. Breakdowns lead to chances, and you can only stop so many… Flash had another good game – congrats on the stud performance tonight and welcome back to the fold. I just hope this does not solidify BBs view he is the best fit for all situations. Just a thought from the crowd…
by kcfatts on Oct 30, 2009 11:11 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I wouldn’t have been surprised if that had been the first time I’d ever seen a goalie called for a dive.
And if you made a list of goalies most likely to take that penalty, I’d put Roloson at the top. Maybe share it with Biron. Roli’s what I’d call a sneaky goalie, not outright dirty but always doing little things that seem a little below the belt.
by Becca H on Oct 30, 2009 11:21 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I still haven’t seen the replay but I turned to my brother and said “I didn’t see it but I guarantee that was a dive.”. Roloson can go to hell afaic.
If consequences dictate the course of action, then it doesn't matter what's right, it's only wrong if you get caught. If consequences dictate the course of action, then I should play God...
by Fehr and Balanced on Oct 30, 2009 11:48 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
Playing against a hard working team is only a reason for losing if you don’t work hard.
Of all our iniquities ignorance may be the worst
by Killer_Carlson on Oct 30, 2009 11:28 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Semin is dead to me. If gmgm can’t pull off a kessel like deal this off-season I’ll settle for 85 cents on the dollar.
If consequences dictate the course of action, then it doesn't matter what's right, it's only wrong if you get caught. If consequences dictate the course of action, then I should play God...
by Fehr and Balanced on Oct 30, 2009 11:50 PM EDT via mobile reply actions 0 recs
If I weren’t so sour on AS I’d be spitting plenty of venom at the po-po right now.
If consequences dictate the course of action, then it doesn't matter what's right, it's only wrong if you get caught. If consequences dictate the course of action, then I should play God...
by Fehr and Balanced on Oct 30, 2009 11:57 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
Ha. I bet you were ’faced when you wrote this.
by Cluster on Oct 31, 2009 10:09 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
In vino veritas
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
by J.P. on Oct 31, 2009 2:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was ‘faced but that doesn’t make it not true. I honestly don’t think Semin is ever going to change; he’s a head case and we are going to have to live with that. I’ll root for him and hope he produces with the Caps but I don’t think it’s wise to commit 6 million dollars to him. Poti is a defensive zone turnover waiting to happen, he can’t be gone soon enough. I also don’t understand where the Green hate is coming from. He had a Jeff Schulz defensive game: steady for most of the night punctuated by one glaring gaffe. I can’t tell you how many plays he made just by beating everyone to the puck. Any other D would have had to win a battle and do something but Green just used his speed to win the loose puck and get a clear. He gets no credit for making those plays look so easy.
If consequences dictate the course of action, then it doesn't matter what's right, it's only wrong if you get caught. If consequences dictate the course of action, then I should play God...
by Fehr and Balanced on Oct 31, 2009 2:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I honestly don’t think [he]is ever going to change; he’s a head case and we are going to have to live with that….
He gets no credit for making those plays look so easy.
Both statements describe how I feel about both Green and Semin. I guess we’re stuck taking the good with the bad.
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Oct 31, 2009 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think Green is much less of a headcase than Semin. I think Green has a ways to go but I also think he consciously tries to better his game. I think part of the early season slump was hesitation because he was trying to pay more attention to his defensive responsibilities. Over the last 3 seasons I think Green’s game has advanced and developed in both ends, and I think that will continue. Save for a brief moment of enlightenment when Fedorov first arrived I don’t see Semin making any conscious effort to adapt or develop his game. He’s going to continue to over pass, under shoot, and make poor decisions with the puck. He’s a very good player, but he’ll never be the great player that he should be with that skill-set. He’s like a much more skilled version of Maxim Afinigenov, IMO.
If consequences dictate the course of action, then it doesn't matter what's right, it's only wrong if you get caught. If consequences dictate the course of action, then I should play God...
by Fehr and Balanced on Oct 31, 2009 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Green, to me, a headcase in the “oh, my stick/gloves/skate/whatever is wrong!!!!!” way and probably needs a little handholding. He also didn’t seem to believe in his own talent and ability before last season. A classic headcase. But despite all his doubts, he can turn it on (that doesn’t mean he’s immune from stupid mistakes). He drives coaches batty, but you want him because when it counts, you can rely on him.
Semin is not a headcase. Semin is that guy: the one who is so freakishly talented and knows it and can coast on that. Some days he shows up hard, some days he doesn’t, but there’s no apparent rhyme or reason. He’s not competitive, he doesn’t have that drive. He also drives coaches batty, but you never know what you’re going to get from day to day.
by RedBirdie on Oct 31, 2009 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The difference is about definitions. Green’s issues with equipment do classify him as a head case but it’s a different kind of head case than Semin. Green seems to at least be aware that he is playing competitive hockey every game. Semin… I’m not even going to guess what he thinks his job is. I don’t think I’ve ever been as angry at a regular season play as I was when he passed that puck (a terrible pass, by the way).
If consequences dictate the course of action, then it doesn't matter what's right, it's only wrong if you get caught. If consequences dictate the course of action, then I should play God...
by Fehr and Balanced on Oct 31, 2009 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Besides the fact that I happen to disagree on Green (though see how someone could feel that way), I don’t think we’re “stuck” with Semin. He’s a tremendous asset and a moveable one.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
by J.P. on Oct 31, 2009 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I could definitely have been clearer. I meant only that as long as we have them, we’ll have to take the good with the bad. And there’s definitely more good than bad.
Green takes a lot of shifts off, mentally. He’s such a ridiculous athlete, he recovers a lot of the time that he does that. I don’t see that changing real soon. It’s the same with Semin and wanting to play a beautiful game, instead of the simple plays and taking what he’s given. That’s all I really meant. They both have their flaws, but the benefits outweigh them.
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Oct 31, 2009 6:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think Semin’s are more ingrained. I don’t see him growing out of it. I do see Green growing out of it as he develops and matures.
If consequences dictate the course of action, then it doesn't matter what's right, it's only wrong if you get caught. If consequences dictate the course of action, then I should play God...
by Fehr and Balanced on Oct 31, 2009 6:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m getting the impression both players “issues” are turning it off, mentally. I don’t then see how Green would improve on this while Semin will not. I do think though that when it matters more (against elite teams, in the postseason, when Ovie is slumping) Semin ramps up his effort level and just seems to dominate the opposing five guys on the ice by himself, and Green seems to be everywhere, battling for every loose puck and always open for the pass.
by red army line on Nov 1, 2009 2:54 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Know OV 2-goal game, know win. No OV 2-goal game, no win.
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by Your Nation's Capital on Oct 30, 2009 11:52 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Bouds on the Care Bears:
“They were way too fancy and way too cute,” Boudreau said. “They could have had four or five goals if they were sharp.”
Had to miss the game tonight for a HS Homecoming football game, but it seems I didn’t miss much at all.
When Hell freezes over, I'll play hockey there, too.
by Steck It Out on Oct 31, 2009 12:11 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
i cant say that backstrom is "on"
bur his stats this week have been fairly good. 1G 5A +2 rating…..he also had a couple of points on the PP and a handful of SOG.
not so bad…although he needs to shoot more on the power play
by twistedlogic on Oct 31, 2009 12:28 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
The four giveaways and the half-hearted play on Tavares on the winning goal are so not like Nik. I agree with DMG that he’s either sick or nursing some kind of injury. I’m going to go with sick because he just looked totally out of gas on that play. And as was noted elsewhere, the Caps coulda, maybe shoulda won, but losing to the Isles tonight was no disgrace. I’m not going to say NY deserved to win but they certainly earned it. Still, for the second of a back-to-back and the third in four nights, I can’t fault the effort. 8-2-3 for the month isn’t too shabby.
by b.orr4 on Oct 31, 2009 12:47 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is a serious question...
it’s not meant to “rile up” any Caps fans, I just want an honest opinion.
I know Mike Green is an offensive gamebreaker, but he will probably be the team’s highest paid defenseman for the next few years. My question is, if you had the opportunity to swap Mike Green for a Jay Bouwmeester, Duncan Keith, or Shea Weber, would you?
None of those defensemen have 80 point potential like Green does, but they all are much better defensively. J-Bo, Weber, or Keith would get around 60-65 points playing on the Caps PP (maybe more), and they wouldn’t have those lapses in concentration like Green does. I watched parts of the game tonight, and Green looked awful in his own zone. There are times when he is solid back there, but others where he looks like he should be a winger.
I feel a shutdown D that you can trust in any situation is better than a $5m+ D-man who could score 80, but be on the ice for 100 goals against. So, hypothetical question, if you could trade Green for one of the aforementioned D, would you?
by Link_Gaetz on Oct 31, 2009 12:37 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
P.S. – What I mean by “be the teams highest paid defenseman over the next couple years” is that the Caps won’t have much room to go out and get a top-pair defensive-defenseman, since Green is making so much. Too many Old Rasputins tonight…
by Link_Gaetz on Oct 31, 2009 12:41 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Objectively, Green is on the ice for more goals for than against, by a pretty wide margin. Sometimes he has a warty game, sometimes he’s so good that everyone else looks like their in slow motion
. By Mirtle’s numbers (and Ryder’s, which are pretty thoroughly researched) he’s well above average in his own end and absolutely unparalleled in the offensive zone. Of all the D-men currently playing in the NHL, there are only a handful that can match his contributions, in the offensive and defensive zone combined. Niedermayer’s Norris year, Lidstrom, and Pronger are the only ones that spring readily to mind. Otherwise, forget it, I’d rather have Green.
This isn’t to say that Keith and Weber aren’t fantastic defensemen in their own right – they are. I’d just rather have Green.
by Knee high to a duck on Oct 31, 2009 12:57 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Green is young enough, and hes actually pretty underrated on defense. He can grow into a far more solid defensive defenseman. I have no problem keeping him
by renstar on Oct 31, 2009 12:45 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I feel a shutdown D that you can trust in any situation is better than a $5m+ D-man who could score 80, but be on the ice for 100 goals against. So, hypothetical question, if you could trade Green for one of the aforementioned D, would you?
Hypothetically, though, the defenseman who could score 80 but gives up 100 isn’t really Green. His defensive statistics are pretty good and he was among the NHL leaders in +/- for defensemen last season.
Personally I like Green on the team and I like his salary because you always pay a premium for offense, especially on the blue line. Right now Green makes well below market value, and I’ll take that in the vast majority of situation.
by David M. Getz on Oct 31, 2009 1:04 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Green – 24 years old – 52 goals, 144 points in 242 games, 49 PCD
PCD is Alan Ryder’s defensive player contribution score for 2008-2009. Bigger number is better. Green’s 49 is very good — he’s #14 in the league among defensemen
Weber – 24 years old – 48 goals, 123 points in 242 games, 38 PCD
Weber’s a close call because he has played in a low scoring system so his offense may be underrated, but Ryder has him significantly below Green in defensive player contribution. 38 PCD ain’t bad, but Green’s 49 is very good
Keith – 26 years old – 31 goals, 128 points in 322 games, 49 PCD
Keith is Green’s equal defensively, but Green is clearly better on offense
Bouwmeester – 26 years old – 53 goals, 203 points in 471 games, 17 PCD
Overrated and overpaid. A good step below the other three defensemen here
Oh, and of course, it’s been said once before on this thread, but there’s really no support for:
who could score 80, but be on the ice for 100 goals against.
Mike Green was on the ice for 119 goals for in 2007-08, and only 71 against. Last year he was on the ice for 145 goals for (#2 in the league, behind only Ovechkin), and just 62 goals against. 110 NHL defensemen were on the ice for more goals against last year.
Greener might one day get his due for his defensive skill. (Perhaps once he gets another partner…)
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Oct 31, 2009 1:50 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
this is an interesting set of data, but there is no way…no way Mike Green is as good defensively as Duncan Keith (or Brent Seabrook) or Shea Weber. Just isn’t. And if the kid can’t find a way to stop hitting the glass ten feet above the goalie’s head….
by bigonetimer on Oct 31, 2009 9:14 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
\no way Mike Green is as good defensively as Duncan Keith (or Brent Seabrook) or Shea Weber. Just isn’t.
I’ll give you this: Greener’s not very big, and he doesn’t hit players terribly frequently. In fact, the only thing he excels at in his defensive game is keeping the puck out of the net.
More GF/GAON numbers, and I’ll throw in Phaneuf becuase it’s fun
Mike Green, 07/08 GFON 119, GAON 71, 08/09 GFON 145, GAON 62
Weber, 07/08 GFON 50, GAON 45 (only 54 GP), 08/09 GFON 101, GAON 75
Seabrook, 07/08 GFON 82, GAON 85, 08/09 GFON 94, GAON 87
Keith, 07/08 GFON 95, GAON 98, 08/09 GFON 109, GAON 88
Bouwmeester, 07/08 GFON 92, GAON 111, 08/09 GFON 106, GAON 108
Dion Phaneuf, 07/08 GFON 134, GAON 98, 08/09 GFON 139, GAON 122
So to recap, Green has been on the ice for 71 and 62 goals against in the last two years, respectively. Of the other four defensemen, the only player who was on the ice for fewer than 71 goals in either of those years was Shea Weber, who was on for 45 goals against in his 54-game rookie year.
So what’s the explanation? You think the Caps’ goaltending was superior over the last two years? (Kolzig, Huet, Johnson, Theodore) Think Green’s partner (ShaMo) has been carrying him defensively? Or maybe, just maybe, Mike Green is pretty good at keeping the puck from finding the back of the net.
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Oct 31, 2009 10:29 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Oops, rookie fail. Weber’s been around longer than that.
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Oct 31, 2009 10:30 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’ll say it again: Mike Green is not as good defensively as Duncan Keith or Brent Seabrook or Shea Weber.
by bigonetimer on Oct 31, 2009 10:39 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’ll say it again: Justify yourself. Come on man, give me anything. I’m giving you the best, deepest statistical hockey analyst (Alan Ryder). I’m giving you raw, intuitive numbers.
Give me one thing that makes you think the Caps would give up fewer goals if they replaced Mike Green with one of the guys listed above.
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Oct 31, 2009 10:43 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What comes into play I think is the question of whether holding onto the puck is considered “defense” perse. It certainly serves to keep pucks out of one’s net, but to some people that’s “offense”.
To me anything that keeps the puck out of the Caps’ net is defense, so Green is elite.
by red army line on Nov 1, 2009 2:57 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bowmaster should not be in the conversation, but I would trade 52 straight up for either Shea Weber or Duncan Keith. That would be a net gain for the Caps
by bigonetimer on Oct 31, 2009 9:19 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, the Caps would certainly score fewer goals, but I guess they’d make up for it by allowing more, so that makes sense.
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Oct 31, 2009 10:31 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Actually, that may be too strong. Keith’s a 49 PCD, same as Green. Seabrook’s a 47 — an insignificant difference. So that Caps probably wouldn’t allow more goals with those guys instead of Green. They’d just score a lot less.
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Oct 31, 2009 10:42 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
While I agree that we would score a handful fewer, I don’t agree that we would allow more. First of all, it’s nearly impossible to impose, say, Weber’s GAON/OFF numbers onto what he would do in DC—I’d be surprised if they did not improve.
Secondly, have a look at QCOMP and QTEAM for Weber and compare to 52…still think Shea Weber’s stats would not benefit from playing in Washington?
Finally, did you watch 52 last night? Fucking awful defensively.
by bigonetimer on Oct 31, 2009 10:57 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t think BBs system is designed to make the defense look better. High risk, High reward.
Mike Green fits into the system pretty darn well, and we all know what happens when a player doesn’t fit into the system.
"And next year it will be ours."
by Ovechwin on Oct 31, 2009 11:04 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No question Mike fits the BB system, but we are a mediocre defensive team, one that wins in spite of its defense (at times) not because of it (mostly). That’s fine for the regular season, but not May.
by bigonetimer on Oct 31, 2009 11:18 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I disagree. Doesn’t matter when a game’s played – October, June, anywhere in between, the name of the game is outscoring your opponents and you can do that by scoring a lot or by allowing very few (or, ideally, both).
I agree the Capitals defense could use an upgrade, but I still keep Green because he’s more than adequate defensively and absolutely blows away the competition offensively. Ergo I think it’s easier to upgrade the defense by keeping that offense from the blue line and adding a top four whose solid in his own end than it is to move Green for someone who’s slightly better in their own end and try to replace his offense with someone else.
by David M. Getz on Oct 31, 2009 11:48 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
still think Shea Weber’s stats would not benefit from playing in Washington?
is a strawman — where did I ever say they wouldn’t? But this is the key point:
we are a mediocre defensive team
Yup, the Caps other than Green haven’t been great defensively. The Caps have also gotten, at best, average goaltending. Yet despite those handicaps, Green has been on the ice for far fewer goals against than the peers listed above.
Weber has benefited from playing in a more defensive system and from having good goaltending, particularly from Rinne last year. Yet he was still on the ice for many more goals against. On the Caps over the last two years, Weber probably would have been on the ice for more goals for and more goals against.
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Oct 31, 2009 12:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bad ice, it happens every year around this time. Hopefully when Abe finally kicks it, Ted will banish that horse show to Upper Marlboro where it belongs.
by Thag on Oct 31, 2009 5:52 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Milan Jurcina had 16:06 of total ice time; 2:32 shorthanded. Shaone Morrisonn had 14:43; 0:40 shorthanded. I guess we know how Boudreau would have voted on Friday’s Pick ’Em
And after watching the game, I know how I would vote. Anytime they decide to move ShaMo is just fine with me.
by b.orr4 on Oct 31, 2009 7:54 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I’d personally be okay with moving both of them and bringing up Alzner (though not now, later in the year).
by red army line on Nov 1, 2009 2:59 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nylander
BTW, Nylander got a goal in his last game with Grand Rapids. If the KHL wanted to see if he can still play is six points in six games enough?
by b.orr4 on Oct 31, 2009 8:03 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
The Griffins were1-3 before Nyls’ arrival, and are now 6-3, which means they have now won five straight. Surely Nyls was a big factor in that turnaround.
IS PAЯTY NOW
by Your Nation's Capital on Oct 31, 2009 8:53 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Although they didn’t really deserve to win last night, it was so dispiriting that all I could was come home and go straight to bed. Ugh.
The good — Flash doing his darnedest to turn us all into believers like Bruce. When I saw him everywhere, all I could think was, “why is Bruce favoring him so much? It’s only his second game back and he hasn’t proven anything yet.” Heh. Later, I didn’t see it out of the realm of possibility that he’d complete the hat trick for the win. Also, Ovechkin continues at his torrid pace.
The bad — The overpassing is ridiculous. Maybe if they get it in their heads that it effectively cost them the game, they’ll let up. Probably, not, but a girl can dream, At least cut down on it some?
Oveckhin going down and limping off the ice? Sucked all the air out of the room. Coming back out onto the ice? Relief.
The ugly — Mike Green whiffing on the pass right in front of the net, leaving Theo totally helpless.
As to that Theodore hot streak? Well, put that one on hold for the moment; time to start a new one? So, if you’re Bruce, who starts in goal tomorrow? Until last night, there was no question, now I’m not so sure.
by gfcaps fan on Oct 31, 2009 8:52 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I’m not ready to declare Theo’s hot streak over. I thought he played very well last night despite the numbers. He was left out to dry a ton last night, and while he maybe could have stopped one or two of those goals, he was (once again) bailing out the team all night.
Of all our iniquities ignorance may be the worst
by Killer_Carlson on Oct 31, 2009 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed. I hope he gets the start tomorrow, and Bruce has put his foot into a few asses.
by bigonetimer on Oct 31, 2009 5:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Meh. It had to happen sometime. I look at this one as an unfortunate necessity – as long as they were getting the W’s, the habit of taking shifts off would continue. They had to lose, embarrassingly, before anything would change. Not guaranteeing it will happen now, but it was guaranteed not to for as long as they continued to win like that.
Besides, four in six and the second night of a back-to-back, they all looked gassed to me. Oh well. Next!
Make no little plans; they have no magic to stir men's blood...Make big plans, aim high in hope and work. - Daniel H. Burnham
Fan Clubs: Sloan, Schultz
by gotsparkly on Oct 31, 2009 10:58 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Has Boudreau reached a plateau as Coach
The result of the Islanders game brings a problem to crystal clear view. Is Coach Boudreau still an effective coach? The problem with the Caps now is they KNOW they are talented enough so they are no longer hungry and they look too comfortable. That my friends is a coaching/GM problem. Either Boudreau needs to shake up that room or McPhee needs to step in and shake up the roster or the coaches.
http://www.turnersportsdesk.com/2009/10/Has-Boudreau-become-white-noise-to-his-players.aspx
What do you think?
by Cavalierman on Oct 31, 2009 12:20 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
(Belated) Observations from Section 421
1) Nick Backstrom on Tavares on the OT goal…Nick, hit the guy.
2) Too many passes by Ovi/Backstrom/Semin. When you have the shot, take it.
3) Welcome back to Tomas Fleischmann!
4) Kyle Okposo can shoot the puck hard, can’t he?
5) Theo had a good game despite a soft goal as the first one. He had no chance on the Green giveaway (unforgivable giveaway) and on the 3rd goal by the Isles… I doubt he only saw the puck on the way out of the net.
6) Great third period by the Caps… they just didn’t score but boy did they outplay the Isles for that 20 minutes.
Tough loss, but still, a point is nice. The Islanders ripped Buffalo 5-0 tonight… they’re playing well now and the Caps got 3 points of the four…
Let's go Caps!
by MikeL-Caps on Nov 1, 2009 12:56 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
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Southeast Standings
| GP | W | L | OTL | PT | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
Washington
|
22 | 13 | 5 | 4 | 30 |
|
Tampa Bay
|
19 | 8 | 4 | 7 | 23 |
|
Atlanta
|
18 | 10 | 6 | 2 | 22 |
|
Florida
|
20 | 9 | 9 | 2 | 20 |
|
Carolina
|
21 | 4 | 12 | 5 | 13 |
(updated 11.21.2009 at 8:36 AM EST)
Certain photos copyright © 2009 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
