Monday Caps Clips: Do Not Laich
by EmilyB on Feb 6, 2012 6:41 AM EST
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Your savory breakfast links:
- Recaps and other assorted musings on yesterday's loss from us, Caps365 video (Hunter, Caps players, Julien, Bruins players), Vogs, Capitals Voice, NHL.com, WaPo (gamer, blog), WashTimes (gamer, blog, blog), DCEx (gamer), CSNW (gamer, blog, Beninati), 106.7 The Fan, Frankovic, RMNB, DSP, Hockey Hourly, hockey yelling, Homer McFanboy and Clydeorama (pics)
- Brooks Laich, skater down. [Caps365 (video), RMNB, Caps Outsider, OFB, WashTimes, Eye on Hockey]
- Super Sunday memories. [BrooksLaichYear]
- Brooks Laich, skater down. [Caps365 (video), RMNB, Caps Outsider, OFB, WashTimes, Eye on Hockey]
- The Week That Was, Volume 17. [Peerless]
- The "must-wins" begin. [KOL]
- The eternal "glass half empty" question. [NFTN]
- Trouble with a Capitals T. [Homer McFanboy]
- Time's a'wasting. [WashTimes]
- The Hershey Bears finally defeated the Baby Pens on Giant Center ice. [Patriot-News]
- Philipp Grubauer has a nifty new Caps/Stingrays bucket. [DaveArt]
- Finally, happy 58th birthday, Bob Sirois.
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So this is just cheerleading?
ThePeerless
Caps fans note…NYG were 6-6 after 12 games (and gave up 87 points in last two losses), got into playoffs with 9-7 record…won it all.
Hey, if only…
"The Caps fan doesn't say, 'is the glass half full' or 'is the glass half empty'. He wonders when the glass is going to spill."
Well, 2011 (going into 2012) has been the season of underachieving teams squeaking into the playoffs, blasting through the playoffs to beat higher seeded teams, and winning all the marbles. That description fit the St. Louis Baseball Cardinals, the World Series winners, and the NY Giants, Superbowl winners. It also fits the Caps. Of course, now there’s this whole getting into the playoffs to start with thing.
The Giants also essentially got in the playoffs due to being the best team in a sucky division and were a worse regular season teams than teams who missed. But both the Giants and Cardinals had previously been champions within the last decade and have playoff success.
Rocking the Red for teams on the banks of the Potomac and at the Gateway Arch and Singing the Blues about Hockey.
If I’m remembering correctly via osmosis (too much sports talk radio), the Giants had significant injuries early in the season and got healthy as the playoffs approached (losing to the Redskins being something of an anomaly that late). Caps are rolling into the opposite problem, as per usual. We’ll see if that changes when (?!) Green returns and if Backstrom gets healthy, but regardless of the big talk, I didn’t like the way the medical professionals (read: sports writers) were diagnosing Laich’s knee.
"The Caps fan doesn't say, 'is the glass half full' or 'is the glass half empty'. He wonders when the glass is going to spill."
Their defense was largely gutted early. At one point they were missing their entire secondary.
If you've read this far...seek help.
Meh – if those guys were actually important, they wouldn’t be called “secondary.”
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by J.P. on Feb 6, 2012 8:51 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
“Scratch your way to the playoffs and then anything can happen” sounds a lot better when your coach and most important player have won the championship before and have that experience to draw upon.
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the championship
I’m assuming you aren’t talking about World Juniors or the Memorial Cup, eh?
Just trying to capture the spirit of the thing...
Nope – the championship for which they’re now competing (Coughlin and Manning had before last night, obviously).
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Yeah, but they didn’t have that experience four years ago when they won in nearly the same manner.
DIfferent sports and all, but the Giants got healthy and a bit lucky in the playoffs. The Caps need to weather the storm and hope to be the healthiest team going into the playoffs.
Just trying to capture the spirit of the thing...
Coughlin had won a SB prior to four years ago, but yeah, the Caps have to hope they’re healthy going into the playoffs.
More than that, though, they have to hope they can win enough with key players out to even make the playoffs. On second thought, hope’s not going to do it…
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OMG a Cuse Guy!
Lordy we are all down here. Get this daught married Hoya boy and vociferous one at that. They r all off to dome Weds, good for them. I meh so what its cold there I recall. Gimme MSG Big East Final to stir my juices baby. Gtown misses us lots already nhahaha
Both times the Eli Manning-led (vomit) Giants have won the super bowl, they did it by knocking off the heavily favored Green Bay Packers in Green Bay and New England Patriots. (as a packers owner, this pretty much sends me into a worsening spiral of depression and crying fits)
All we need is the NHL to bump up the Milwaukee Admirals, and the caps are golden!
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They also beat 13-3 San Francisco in San Francisco.
I’ve always thought the most remarkable team I ever saw was the 1990 Minnesota North Stars, who lost to the Penguins in the Stanley Cup finals. They finished 4th in the Norris with 68 points. The only team that finished with less points and made the playoffs was Vancouver with 65 in the Smythe. Chicago and St. Louis finished with 106 and 105 points in that division respectively, which was tops in the league.
Yet, the Stars beat Chicago in the first round, beat St. Louis in the second round, then knocked off the defending Cup champs (Edmonton) in the Conference Finals before bowing out to Pittsburgh in 6.
"Now fair's fair Henry. If I nail Hotlips and punch Hawkeye, can I go home too?
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by YvonLabresMoustache on Feb 6, 2012 9:21 AM EST up reply actions
in some ways, watching these so-so teams get hot at just the right time, pisses me off and reminds me that’s why I prefer the old baseball model. You couldn’t just skate by during the regular season. (yes, aware that expanding to 10 teams will likely benefit the Nats this season and/or next). Watching #7 Philly take on #8 Montreal for the Eastern Conference crown a couple seasons ago made me want to do very violent things.
Pointless griping, because no way are they goign to give up a huge revenue produced when over half the league makes that playoffs. But that doesn’t make it suck any less.
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I remember that playoff season well. Jon Casey was on fire during the playoffs for the North Stars that year.
I also remember that the broadcast I saw on CBC had lots of shots of then owner Norm Green up in the owner’s box. Of course, Green would go on to be hated in the Twin Cities for selling the franchise to Texas. As was said in an early 90s SI Article:
Green was much reviled in Minnesota following the decision (due to poor attendance during a string of losing seasons, the failure to reach stadium deals in Minneapolis or Saint Paul, and a sexual harassment lawsuit against Green that resulted in his wife threatening to leave him unless he moved the team) to move the franchise. The article included a quote from North Stars booster club president Julie Hammond: “When [Norm Green] came here, he said, ‘Only an idiot could lose money on hockey in Minnesota.’ Well, I guess he proved that point.”
It’s such a crazy, crazy run. I mean, Hull dropped 86/45/131 that year. Oates dropped 25/90/115. Ed Belfour won the Calder, the Jennings and the Vezina. The Stars’ leading scorers were Dave Gagner with 40/42/82, Brian Bellows with 35/40/75 and Brian Propp with 26/47/73.
Think about that for a second. Brett Hull had more goals that year than Minnesota’s leading scorer had POINTS.
"Now fair's fair Henry. If I nail Hotlips and punch Hawkeye, can I go home too?
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by YvonLabresMoustache on Feb 6, 2012 9:37 AM EST up reply actions
And still won’t sniff the total.
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ah, the days when the league encouraged offense.
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Gretzky led the league with 41/122/163. He tallied 48 assists during one 23-game streak. Those are junior hockey numbers.
Gretzky is great for so many, many reasons, but to me his most awe-inspiring achievement is how he turned Bernie Nicholls into a 150-point player (70/80/150) his first season in LA after leaving the Oilers. That’s near indescribable.
"Now fair's fair Henry. If I nail Hotlips and punch Hawkeye, can I go home too?
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by YvonLabresMoustache on Feb 6, 2012 9:52 AM EST up reply actions
122 assists. I can’t even really imagine that.
I made the mistake of getting into hockey just as the New Jersey trap came in.
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Ray Ferraro’s 1983-84 WHL season with teh Brandon Wheat Kings: 108/84/192.
The season before he was on the Memorial Cup winning Portland WinterHawks team that had future NHLers such as Cam Neely, Mike Vernon, Brian Curran, John Kordic among others.
by Rather Bengt on Feb 6, 2012 10:04 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I know I’ve dug them up before, but Rob Brown’s numbers in Regina:
85-86, 69 games, 58/115/173 (and 171 PIMs)
86-87, 63 games, 76/136/212 (and 101 PIMs)
But that’s overshadowed by far by his IHL season in 93-94 with the Kalamazoo Wings, where in 79 games he put up 42/113/155, with 188 PIMs.
How has there not been a book or something written about this guy? I know you’ve said before he’s a colossal asshole, but does he just turn down all interviews?
"Now fair's fair Henry. If I nail Hotlips and punch Hawkeye, can I go home too?
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by YvonLabresMoustache on Feb 6, 2012 10:21 AM EST up reply actions
Just a small correction: Brown’s gaudy numbers were with Kamloops, not Regina. Actually I don’t know how much Brown turns down interviews these days as I believe he does the colour for OIlers’ radio broadcasts. he may have mellowed over the years since becoming part of the media himself.
Although they aren’t as crazy as Brownie’s totals, the early 80s totals of Oshawa General Mitch Lamoureux always jump out at me with the Points/PIMs difference:
80-81 63 games 50/69/119 (and 256 PIMs)
81-82 66 games 43/78/121 (and 275 PIMs) post season: 12 g 4/17/21 68 PIMs
Weird personal note: Mitch also dated my babysitter I had when I was around 7 years old growing up in Oshawa.
by Rather Bengt on Feb 6, 2012 10:35 AM EST up reply actions
Crap. I guess I just was thinking of Regina for some reason.
Lamoureux has his number retired in Hershey.
"Now fair's fair Henry. If I nail Hotlips and punch Hawkeye, can I go home too?
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by YvonLabresMoustache on Feb 6, 2012 10:43 AM EST up reply actions
Bernie Nicholls had some good totals before Gretzky got there (I think two seasons with 45+ goals).
I like what Mario Lemieux did for Robbie Brown and Warren Young even more.
But I am biased.
41/54/95 in 83-84 and 46/54/100 in 84-85. Then he had 39/73/112 in a combo season with the Kings and Rangers in 89-90. 75 points in 47 games with LA that year, 37 in 32 with NYR.
"Now fair's fair Henry. If I nail Hotlips and punch Hawkeye, can I go home too?
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by YvonLabresMoustache on Feb 6, 2012 11:15 AM EST up reply actions
Exactly. He wasn’t Hall-of-Fame caliber by any means, but he was a good offensive player. Much better than Brown or Young.
And his name sounds like “Burning Nipples.”
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by J.P. on Feb 6, 2012 11:16 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Also had a really douchey hair cut.
"Now fair's fair Henry. If I nail Hotlips and punch Hawkeye, can I go home too?
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by YvonLabresMoustache on Feb 6, 2012 11:21 AM EST up reply actions
You can see a young Steven Tyler’s face just start to begin to melt in the background.
"Now fair's fair Henry. If I nail Hotlips and punch Hawkeye, can I go home too?
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by YvonLabresMoustache on Feb 6, 2012 11:42 AM EST up reply actions
There was a reason “The Exorcist” was set in DC…
Occasionally reporting from Section 421 of the Verizon Center...
by MikeL-Pivonka on Feb 6, 2012 10:33 AM EST up reply actions
laich
Brooksie with the always fun “day to day”
by Obi wan Knuble on Feb 6, 2012 7:25 AM EST via iPhone app reply actions
Close to 25 million dollars sidelined right now, is that right or too high?
by Obi wan Knuble on Feb 6, 2012 7:36 AM EST via iPhone app up reply actions
I think it’s a hair under $20m, assuming Laich’s out (and inclusive of Poti’s K).
"My favorite fan base in D.C. Is United's. Period. The end." - Steinberg
Which DC sports team has the Most Valuable Players? That would be DC United, a team being pushed out by the city. Help Keep United in DC so they can receive a fair deal on a lease and help develop a path to build a stadium with local investment and incentives.
Put a different way, the salary cap is $64.3 million. Of that amount, $16.45 million is now on the bench (Backstrom, Green, Laich) — 25.6 percent of the cap.
If you add in Tom Poti (remember him?), those numbers go to $19.325 million and 30.05 percent.
If you've read this far...seek help.
(But adding Poti essentially double-counts, as Hamrlik ~= Poti)
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(1+Hamrlik)^n=1+nx/1!(n(n-1) Poti^2)/2!
"Now fair's fair Henry. If I nail Hotlips and punch Hawkeye, can I go home too?
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by YvonLabresMoustache on Feb 6, 2012 7:50 AM EST up reply actions
And then of course, there’s the classic:
Nylander=Ď€r^2
"Now fair's fair Henry. If I nail Hotlips and punch Hawkeye, can I go home too?
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Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Feb 6, 2012 7:51 AM EST up reply actions 4 recs
Figurin' out the Caps' chances just gets harder and harder...
If you've read this far...seek help.
by ThePeerless on Feb 6, 2012 8:08 AM EST up reply actions 7 recs
Stop taking pictures of Neil’s mom’s basement!
"My favorite fan base in D.C. Is United's. Period. The end." - Steinberg
Which DC sports team has the Most Valuable Players? That would be DC United, a team being pushed out by the city. Help Keep United in DC so they can receive a fair deal on a lease and help develop a path to build a stadium with local investment and incentives.
by Bald Pollack on Feb 6, 2012 8:19 AM EST up reply actions 20 recs
Rec’d you both.
Ovechkin on how he can help the team: "Score MOAR goals."
by capsyoungguns on Feb 6, 2012 8:39 AM EST up reply actions
Nice.
"Shots aren't the important thing. Scoring chances are way more important than shots." - Bruce Boudreau
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For those who didn’t watch Dale’s post gamer, after giving the Brooks “day to day” update, Hunter was asked about Orlov. Hunter said he broke his nose against Montreal and got hit again against the Bs and his eyes were watering to much to play. But Hunter really looked like he wanted to burst out laughing. Old school.
The increasing absence of the highest paid players due to injury/suspension could provide more opportunities to see what the team depth is like, if further evidence were needed. Perhaps a player or two will step into the breach and make a case that they deserve more playing time. Less time would also be a possibility.
/Breaking out an old, old can of Caps turd polish.
by Acer Jonesy's Laughker on Feb 6, 2012 7:47 AM EST reply actions
not good times ...
My son taught me something new over the weekend — you’re never too young to be let down by your favorite hockey team.
Waiting for the day Al Iafrate calls and tells me he's my father.
Cute kid.
And be careful with those bumbos – don’t want your boy sidelined a la Nicky. /Parent’d
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Today’s 8:00 AM Number:
70.75 – Average heigh, in inches, of the Caps’ top-four healthy centers (and that includes the laughable claim that Mathieu Perreault is 5’10").
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Perreault himself only claims 5’8".
That'll make your weagle wink!
"You're the boss, apple sauce" - @GreenLife52
….where it counts.
"Now fair's fair Henry. If I nail Hotlips and punch Hawkeye, can I go home too?
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by YvonLabresMoustache on Feb 6, 2012 8:08 AM EST up reply actions
Almost time to fail for Nail!
Comrades, leave me here a little, while as yet 't is early morn:
Leave me here, and when you want me, sound upon the bugle-horn
Not a game-specific recap (insofar as I can tell), but read his “Week that Was.”
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The measure the short guys on skates…and then fudge the numbers up. I think it was ~two years ago, no one on Hershey (at least in one press release I read) had no one listen below 5’10"..despite both Jojo and Perreault playing for them at the time…
Though Jojo might be taller than he seems to me.
I like Laich, but I <3 Green
Keep the faith!!!!!!
by RockinRed4Life on Feb 6, 2012 11:00 AM EST up reply actions
I think last year Hershey had Perreault listed at 5’8" at the same time the Caps listed him at 5’10". I was therefore willing to belive it was probably 5’9", but if the man himself says 5’8"….
"The Caps fan doesn't say, 'is the glass half full' or 'is the glass half empty'. He wonders when the glass is going to spill."
5’8" with skates on
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She is only 5'1" and he is in flip flops
"Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity"
by caps_shutterbug on Feb 6, 2012 1:26 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
That hat is worth two inches.
"The Caps fan doesn't say, 'is the glass half full' or 'is the glass half empty'. He wonders when the glass is going to spill."
Heh. Actually, I wasn’t implying anything other than the height of the hat. I definitly think he looks seven or eight inches taller than the gal in the photo. And we don’t know what she was wearing on her feet, either.
"The Caps fan doesn't say, 'is the glass half full' or 'is the glass half empty'. He wonders when the glass is going to spill."
Dude has some serious hair stuffed under that hat. Worth a couple of inches for sure.
Ovechkin on how he can help the team: "Score MOAR goals."
by capsyoungguns on Feb 6, 2012 7:19 PM EST up reply actions
Violence is not only embedded in [the sport]; it is the very celebration of it. It is why we like it. Take it away, continue efforts to curtail the savagery, and the game will be nothing, regardless of age or skill.
…
The game doesn’t simply cause injury. It is injury. It is an occupational hazard that, yes, can turn into tragedy. The inherent danger can never be strained out, except at the margins. Nor should it be.
I was pointed to that column from a post at The Economist. It’s Buzz Bissinger mouth-breathing about the football, but it’s clearly applicable to hockey as well. No easy answers (but I’m hardly convinced that that means we should just throw our hand up and say, “Fuck it, it is what it is”). Just thought it was interesting.
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Football is a considerably less violent game than it was 30 years ago and is almost unrecognizable compared to the sport it was a half-century ago. But, are injuries up? Especially those the result from impact? It’s just a simple application of Newton’s Second Law: force equals mass times acceleration. Larger men who are faster competing in the same confined space. It applies to football; it applies to hockey.
If you've read this far...seek help.
Ah, yes, but with the Caps you make to make some adjustments for various quantum effects. For example, the theorized necessity for quantized energy is not always present nor is the mass equivalency applicable for several players. On the other hand, simultaneous measurement of two complementary values – such as position and momentum – has certainly been confirmed as ‘uncertain’ this year.
0000
I’ve always looked on it as part of a “contract” we make as fans of sport. I wrote this in the aftermath of Chara/Pacioretty:
I have to admit that I’ve been struggling with a lot of this, especially in terms of what it all means. Incidents like this make me feel like I’ve sold my soul to become a hockey fan. I look at what happened to Pacioretty, and I look at what just happened to Bob Probert, and I feel shaken. But I feel like as much as I WANT to see hits and fights, I want more to live in this fantasy world where every time a guy gets blown up, he gets right back up to his feet as if nothing happened, and everything’s okay. And that’s not always the case. Every player is not going to get back to his feet. Every retired player is not going to have normal brain activity and die old and full of years instead of in the middle of his forties. As much as I abhor violence personally, I actively encourage it by buying into the concept of organized sports. This is something I continually have to reconcile with myself.
I hate that this happened in the game I’ve grown to love. I hate that it stains the game, and most of all, I hate the fact that Max Pacioretty is a 22-year-old kid who may never play a game of hockey again. No matter what discipline you exercise on Chara (and he’s getting none), you can’t take back that moment. It’s all a part of the contract we’ve all tacitly agreed to as fans and athletes, and that’s something with which we all have to live.
"Now fair's fair Henry. If I nail Hotlips and punch Hawkeye, can I go home too?
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by YvonLabresMoustache on Feb 6, 2012 9:05 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Wysh was lamenting on his podcast recently that Scott Stevens would be kicked out of the league if he played today. He’s right, and it does kinda suck. No easy solutions, though. The league will never go back to allowing more soul-crushing open ice hits.
That presumes that Scott Stevens would be the same type of player. I don’t think a lot of people go for huge hits any more, because if you swing and miss, it’s off to the races on the other end.
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by YvonLabresMoustache on Feb 6, 2012 11:16 AM EST up reply actions
Right. During the early part of his career, Stevens was much more offensive oriented. Look at his number pre-94 and after.
Which comes down to timing and knowing when to pick your spots. Shanny specifically talked about Stevens’ timing in the interview he did with Wysh so it seems odd that Wysh went right back to the “Stevens couldn’t play today” thing on the podcast. I guess he just didn’t buy what Shanny was selling but I thought it was a good response. Obviously there’s no real way to test it though.
Please, call me F&B.
Never heard Shanny’s interview, but if he was claiming that Stevens’s greatest hits would have been legal today because he had good timing, yeah that’s bullshit.
These are slam dunk suspensions today.
How is the timing wrong on Lindros? Kariya is a split second late but his elbows and hands were down. Considering how many hits the guy threw I think it’s only reasonable to expect one or two to cross into that gray area.
If Stevens on Lindros is ever a “slam dunk suspension” I’ll just stop watching the NHL.
Where is the timing issue on Kozlov? The puck is right there so it’s not late. He might get a penalty and a phone call for sheer violence but his skate’s on the ice and the puck is there. Elbows in. Statutorily everything is in check. My issue is that it’s hitting a guy that is already engaged with your teammate, which traditionally is a bush league hit. But since the Code is a relic of the past, and has been for some time, it’s less of an issue. And ultimately it’s not going to be a suspendable offense because it’s not outlawed by the rule book.
Please, call me F&B.
My point wasn’t that Stevens’s timing was wrong, it’s that under the current rule 48 and Shanny’s precedent, timing is completely irrelevant. Head targeted and principal point of contact = suspension. Shanny’s apparent claim that Stevens’s supernatural timing transmogrified head checks into legal ones is what is bullshit
This was a suspension and the timing was at least the same as, if not better than, any of the Stevens hits (hit while still carrying the puck or at the worst a millisecond after).
by Ginga on Feb 6, 2012 12:01 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Timing is very important. If AO had timed his hit better (launched a split second later) his skates would have been on the ice and he wouldn’t fly into Michalek’s dome. When you are exploding into a guy the timing is crucial.
JFJ got suspended because he blindsided a guy in the head. The Kozlov hit you linked to could be considered blindside. Kariya and Lindros shouldn’t be considered blindside by any reasonable definition. But given that Perron was “blindsided” by Thornton I guess anything is possible.
Please, call me F&B.
All three hits would be suspensions. Principle point of contact = head. Blindside or not, he was targeting the head, and I think that’s almost an automatic Shanaban.
by kingbonehead on Feb 6, 2012 12:27 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Except that reference to “blindside” was removed from rule 48 this year, and non-blindside hits to the head are now being suspended.
And I completely disagree with you about JFJ being more of a blindsider than the Kariya hit. Look at the Kariya vid again. Stevens was skating parallel to the blue line while Kariya was skating north-south. It’s almost textbook “blindside.” And certainly the Kozlov hit was at comparable to JFJ in terms of being from the blindside.
So blindside is not a valid distinction between those hits, and in any event, that wasn’t Shanny’s basis for his post hoc rationalization. If he were honest, he’d say tempi cambi rather than make up some crap about how Stevens would still be allowed to make these hits.
by Ginga on Feb 6, 2012 12:29 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Kariya was only “blindside” because he turned his head over his shoulder to watch the pass. If he’s looking forward he sees Stevens.
Lindros? I don’t see any definition of “blindside” that includes hitting a guy from right in front. If Lindros wasn’t hanging that melon of his that hit is right in the sternum.
Please, call me F&B.
Meh, Lindros wasn’t much less of a blindsider than Jacques’s either. Stevens came at him laterally (parallel to the blue line) from his right side. Only difference is he was coming from a bigger distance so Lindros had a longer time to see him. But the contact still came from the same direction.
But none of this matters since “blindside” isn’t in the rule anymore.
Stevens was definitely not parallel to the blue line. It was maybe a 45 degree angle, and if Lindros had looked he’d have seen him.
No, blindside isn’t in there, but they still consider whether the puck carrier put himself in a bad position to create the head contact. It’s hard for me to fathom how skating through the neutral zone looking at your laces wouldn’t count, but I’m not going to try to predict what the NHL would or wouldn’t do.
How many of the Stevens hits were worse than Michalek on Hendricks?
Please, call me F&B.
It’s hard for me to fathom how skating through the neutral zone looking at your laces wouldn’t count, but I’m not going to try to predict what the NHL would or wouldn’t do.
Me either, but I would love for another Lindros hit to happen so I can watch Shanahan go through contortions explaining how it’s legal under his own precedent and the wording of that rule. Who am I kidding, he’d just ignore it like the Michalek hit.
Or, he’d follow his own precedent and say that since the skater did something to put his face in the danger zone there is no suspension.
He didn’t ignore the Michalek hit. He issued his ruling and said that there were mitigating factors. You can disagree with it but to say that he just ignored it does a disservice.
Please, call me F&B.
I actually didn’t remember any ruling on the Michaelek hit.
And saying the player did something to put himself in a vulnerable position would be a contortion because he’s acknowledged that in several rulings that nonetheless resulted in suspensions.
It’s not a contortion, necessarily, unless you just think any distinction is a contortion. No two hits are the same, there can be mitigating factors in two separate hits but one hit could still be suspendable. It’s a tough line.
Shanny called Michalek and then issued a statement saying he wasn’t punishing him because Hendricks’ knees buckled and that’s what dropped his head to the level where Michalek elbowed him.
Please, call me F&B.
If Stevens on Lindros is ever a "slam dunk suspension" I’ll just stop watching the NHL.
Uhm… You might wanna quit watching hockey then. Stevens on Lindros was straight shoulder-to-jaw, the head was the principle point of contact, and frankly I don’t think there’s any way that hit isn’t suspended if it happens today.
Not cold turkey, but I’ve already cut down.
I still say that hit is legal, and needs to be legal. There is no way the GMs intended to take that hit out of the game.
Please, call me F&B.
I have mixed feelings on the issue. I agree that keeping your head up is critical (given that most players are taught that from mite onward), but at the same time, I don’t think that just because a player has his head down, it’s open season for a guy to blow him up with a shoulder to the head.
Watching Stevens on Lindros sort of reminded me of Richards on Booth, though admittedly in the latter case Richards came at him from a his back right.
If I thought Stevens launched himself at Lindros’ head I’d agree. But that’s not how I see the play. Stevens’ shoulder is on a collision course for Lindros’ sternum but Lindros carries his head in a way that literally makes it impossible for Stevens to hit him in the sternum without making head contact.
Richards came from a much more blindside angle and almost exclusively hit Booth’s head. Stevens made contact with center mass but he had to go through Lindros’ face to do it. I blame that on Lindros.
The ability of these guys to skate through the neutral zone with such speed, to be able to pass the puck and receive pass with such speed, all while knowing someone is trying to destroy them is one of the parts of the game I enjoy most. If guys could just skate through the neutral zone looking at their feet or back over their shoulder with no fear of god the game would be less talented and less entertaining. This isn’t men’s league hockey and should not be played as such.
Please, call me F&B.
As much as I am not a fan of Brooks Orpik
…his hit on Daniel Paille Saturday was pretty sweet
Even if Paille didn’t fly 25 feet as Steggy and Errey claimed. Props to Paille getting right back up and not milking it for a penalty.
by Rather Bengt on Feb 6, 2012 11:39 AM EST up reply actions
Another massive hit on the weekend was in the late HNIC game when Niklas Kronwall rocked Ales Hemsky. A lot of Oilers’ fans got up in arms about it but the Edmonton Journal ran a good frame by frame breakdown of it showing it to be clean
by Rather Bengt on Feb 6, 2012 11:53 AM EST up reply actions
Everyone just assumes Kronwall left his feet; when he doesn’t it’s like seeing a UFO land in your back yard.
pretty much. Dude leaves his feet all. the. time. how he’s never been suspended is beyond me.
that said, the hit against Hemsky was totally clean and an absolute monster.
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He made a pretty brilliant move in the Detroit game the other night. Didn’t score on it, but he showed some great athleticism for a big man.
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by YvonLabresMoustache on Feb 6, 2012 12:07 PM EST up reply actions
@Rabiesmalin Nicklas Bäckström had the team over for a Super Bowl dinner last night. #Caps
No one passes the french onion dip like NB19.
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by J.P. on Feb 6, 2012 9:00 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
His dinnerware has the prettiest saucers…
That'll make your weagle wink!
"You're the boss, apple sauce" - @GreenLife52
by boutros23 on Feb 6, 2012 9:01 AM EST up reply actions 11 recs
He laughed because the bowl was decorated with lots of little “89s”
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by YvonLabresMoustache on Feb 6, 2012 9:06 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
He was invited, but he had to sit in the other room.
That'll make your weagle wink!
"You're the boss, apple sauce" - @GreenLife52
by boutros23 on Feb 6, 2012 9:08 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Good ol’ number XIX, a great teammate. Wonder if XXI was able to make it with the bad leg and all? No doubt VIII was there first a left last.
Just trying to capture the spirit of the thing...
LII ate all the wings before anyone else showed up.
XXVIII was there all night, but no one noticed him.
XC spent the whole night trying to force others to take shots rather than taking any himself.
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Too bad they sent L back to Hershey.
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by YvonLabresMoustache on Feb 6, 2012 9:21 AM EST up reply actions
LXXIV was guarding a seat for XXIX but someone slipped past him and stole it. Also heard during halftime XXX showed up, and I’m not talking about Neuvy.
Just trying to capture the spirit of the thing...
Vin Diesel?
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Nope...
Hendricks, and I don’t mean XXVI…
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by MikeL-Pivonka on Feb 6, 2012 10:38 AM EST up reply actions
Thanks for linking to my tweet. To follow up on that tweet – Nicklas Bäckström’s personal trainer Sebastian Falk is in Washington for a visit. I don’t know if it’s a just a social visit or if they are planning to work out together like they did in the summer.
OMG. Just yesterday I was thinking that they should brong Sebbe over to work with Nicklas – and here he is! :)
Very good for Nicky whether he’s ready to skate again or not.
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Excellent. Can you think about 21,19 and 52 being healthy today then? It’s worth a try at least.
by Malin A on Feb 6, 2012 11:46 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Analyzing Caps' playoff chances
Let’s assume NYP, BOS, PHI, and PIT are pretty solid (although PIT is within 6 points of the Caps, just sayin’ !) . That leaves:
FLA 51 GP, 59 Pts
NJD 52 GP, 63 Pts
OTT, 55 GP, 61 Pts
TOR, 52 GP, 60 Pts
WAS, 52 GP, 58 Pts
I think OTT is most at risk here of not getting in. They are not playing well now (3-6-1 in last 10) and have played the most games. NJD is getting hot at the right time, so I’m going to call them likely. This leaves TOR, OTT and WAS to fight over the remaining spots.
Hoping WAS has enough character to stay in the hunt until Nicky and Green get back. I hated to see them spot BOS that 2 goal lead, but I saw some playmaking yesterday that leaves me hopeful that they can build upon and gain more confidence.
Ottawa’s looser defensively than Madonna’s pelvis.
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by YvonLabresMoustache on Feb 6, 2012 9:22 AM EST up reply actions
Ottawa need better goaltending. They have enough talent elsewhere, that an improvement over Anderson/Auld could push them into the playoffs.
Is Halak available from St. Louis?
I wouldn’t think so. He’s been playing out of his mind lately, and probably has pushed Elliott out of the 1 spot.
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by YvonLabresMoustache on Feb 6, 2012 11:22 AM EST up reply actions
To go back to Ottawa? Behind that defense?
That didn’t work out too well last year.
He hasn’t won a game since January 7th, and has played just twice since then.
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by YvonLabresMoustache on Feb 6, 2012 11:25 AM EST up reply actions
(That was sarcasm on my part that obviously was missed because… well, because I’m not good at this.)
What about J.S Giguere? Khabibulin (he has one year left on his deal at a reasonable $3.75 million)? Nabokov?
For Giggy and Nabokov it all depends on whether COL or the Islanders want to sell at the deadline and just blow things up. The Avs are only three points out of 8th, and the Isles are only a point behind Tampa, and 4 points behind the Jets (but 10 points out of 8th). With the charity point, everyone just hangs around long after they should at this point of the season and makes it tough to sell to the fans that you’ve got to blow things up.
Khabibulin still has a year left at 3.75 on a 35+. I wouldn’t take it if I were the Senators.
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by YvonLabresMoustache on Feb 6, 2012 11:37 AM EST up reply actions
So who gets the call-up with Laich questionable for Tuesday?
- Eakin?
- Potulny?
- Hanson?
- None?
- Other?
What’s Potulny’s waiver status?
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by YvonLabresMoustache on Feb 6, 2012 9:28 AM EST up reply actions
No re-entry waivers required.
Waivers: Same as Aucoin, 10 NHL games played or 30 days on NHL roster, which happens first, both cumulative since last time cleared waivers (beginning of season when he was assigned to Hershey, starting at zero if recalled)
If an emergency recall to replace an injured player (no available player at NHL level; note Beagle is on Caps roster and assumption is he’s healthy), the waiver clock won’t start.
Rechlicz!
They’ve obviously consistently surprised me with their recalls of late, so I’ll say Potulny. Why not?
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They have to have an extra forward, just in case, right? As in, someone pulls a muscle in warm ups.
If so, Potulny seems the right choice.
Nice guys finish first, but sometimes the season is awfully long.
Follow me on Twitter.
Beagle is around, but one would think they’d recall someone. I haven’t done the math regarding available dollars using LTIR using Poti and Green’s dollars, but at this point, they can put Backstrom on LTIR, too, as it’s not going to impact his availability/return.
Yeah. I was ignoring $$$. Mrs. Spidey tends to do that a lot.
Nice guys finish first, but sometimes the season is awfully long.
Follow me on Twitter.
You snark – but dressing 11 forwards and 7 defensemen is a viable option.
4 has played at least one game at wing for the Caps.
Nice guys finish first, but sometimes the season is awfully long.
Follow me on Twitter.
But can he play center?
"The Caps fan doesn't say, 'is the glass half full' or 'is the glass half empty'. He wonders when the glass is going to spill."
No. But you 90, 85, 23, 15, and 83 all can “play” center.
Nice guys finish first, but sometimes the season is awfully long.
Follow me on Twitter.
Only half snark, honestly.
Just trying to capture the spirit of the thing...
by dcsportsfan1 on Feb 6, 2012 10:21 AM EST up reply actions
So who gets the call-up with Laich questionable for Tuesday?
- Eakin?
- Potulny?
- Hanson?
- None?
- Other?
Sjogren.
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Practice has started and sounds like no recall for today’s practice…12 forwards on the ice.
no Laich (and that’s no surprise)
Next games are at home, so unless you expect an injury in practice, I don’t see why they’d call someone else up, all else being equal, of course.
"The Caps fan doesn't say, 'is the glass half full' or 'is the glass half empty'. He wonders when the glass is going to spill."
If they weren’t using LITR space, I wouldn’t have expected a recall. The Bears played 3 in 3 this weekend, but I was thinking it was 50/50 they’d recall someone for practice today.
I wasn’t necessarily thinking about the cap space/money. Hence my comment about all else being equal. They already called up an extra player and skated him in place of someone who’s been on the roster all year (except when he was out injured, but you get my point).
"The Caps fan doesn't say, 'is the glass half full' or 'is the glass half empty'. He wonders when the glass is going to spill."
I asked this in the recap yesterday to sk8 and em, but any of the Rink AHL followers (of which I can’t really say I am one) can answer it:
What is the main reason Graham Mink has never made the NHL, except for extremely small sips of coffee with the Caps? You would think with his size and AHL scoring prowess, he would have had a chance somewhere.
Generally speaking, the guys that light it up in the AHL but never make it are either A) slow or B) small. It’s a wasteland of undersized players competing against glacially slow skaters
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See Giroux, Alexandre.
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by YvonLabresMoustache on Feb 6, 2012 10:01 AM EST up reply actions
I think Rooster’s problem was/is less about footspeed and more about shot-release speed. D’s close so quick in the NHL that you need a quick release to be successful. His release is good enough to dominate the A, but just way slow for the NHL.
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Release speed was an issue that I think with time he could adjust, but Giroux’s skating while improved in the years I’ve watched him is still an issue at the NHL level and also his play away from the puck. Lazy stick penalties, taking liberties behind the play, not getting back to the defensive zone, etc.
Yeah, all of that, too. But if you can score, NHL teams overlook that pesky other stuff.
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by HockeyGoalie29 on Feb 6, 2012 11:38 PM EST up reply actions
It was like shooting one of those giant medieval catapults. He’d have to wind up between each shot.
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by YvonLabresMoustache on Feb 6, 2012 10:23 AM EST up reply actions
Thanks guys. I couldn’t recall his limited stints up here with the Caps.
by Rather Bengt on Feb 6, 2012 10:05 AM EST up reply actions
I think the Stars know how to lock down a game. They’re 15-0-0 when leading after two periods. Only Vancouver and Boston (21-0 each) and Washington (16-0) are better.
We’re 16-0-0 when leading after 2??
The safe word will be "hwiskey"
by kschaeff on Feb 6, 2012 10:45 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
hmmmm……yep. Shocked me, too.\
so, lesson to take away from this: score enough damn goals to be leading after 2 and you’ll win the damn game!
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Poor Fehrsie
From Ken Wiebe of the Winnipeg Sun:
The Jets made forward Eric Fehr a healthy scratch yesterday for the 1st time this season. Fehr has only 2 points in 29 games this year
.
Don’t expect to see him in Bruno Maglis though, everyone knows Fehrsies wear boots.
Please, call me F&B.
by Rob Parker on Feb 6, 2012 10:53 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
From Andy Strickland
Panthers defenseman Jason Garrison will be a UFA after the season, and signs are pointing to him hitting the open market. It’s possible the Panthers could move him, rather than lose him for nothing. Sources are saying he could be looking for something in the $4.5 million range
.
If he does go on the open market, and the Caps don’t resign Wides do you think they should make a move for Garrison?
Not at that type of term/price, no.
My first reaction when I read that write-up the other day was ‘wow’. I understand he’ll be looking for a payday, but those numbers are just crazy for that player. Also, take a look at his game by game stats for the season; his production has slowed down since the beginning of the year.
yeah, that $4.5 number shocked me.
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Since Caps play Panthers tomorrow night and an ex-Cap,
OnFrozenPond George Richards
RT @FlaPanthers: #FlaPanthers Coach Dineen announces that Marco Sturm had minor knee surgery today, out 3-4 weeks. #NHL
such terrible luck with those knees. wonder if it’s the same one he had surgery on previously.
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Man I feel bad for Marco and his injury luck. The guy seems to have such a positive disposition.
by Rather Bengt on Feb 6, 2012 11:00 AM EST up reply actions
Was he smiling during the surgery?
(Yes, I know about the avatar hounding - just pretend mine is invisible.)
Ups and Downs are up. Go read them and comment so I don’t feel like I wasted my time writing them.
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I don’t know if this was talked about during yesterday’s clips, but how about that blatant slewfoot by Zac Rinaldo on Parise and the subsequent fight between Kovalchuk and Schenn?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=274q26tg3VE
I gained a ton of respect for Kovalchuk, lost any respect (not that I had any) for Rinaldo (who said he did it to stir things up), and questioned the intelligence of Schenn to get into a fight (and get rocked) only weeks after being out for an extended period with a concussion.
Didn’t Rinaldo get two fines for that game?
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Yeah, but no suspension.
To me, that slew foot merited something.
It’s one thing to do it in the heat of competition — going to the boards, trying to get leverage, tying up your opponent’s skates — but this was blatant and really dangerous.
I mentioned this in one of the weekend clips threads, but the thing that struck me most about the slew foot is how no one in the NHL is willing to call it a slew foot. A slew foot is specifically defined in the NHL rules and has specific, harsh penalties. I think this is why referees are so disinclined to actually call one (that and incompetence). The most alarming part, though, is Shanahan’s video, where he called it a “dangerous trip.” If that is all we are going to call it, why is slew footing specifically defined?
I'll have the milksteak, over hard
Hopefully the GIF stays up:
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by Bald Pollack on Feb 6, 2012 11:35 AM EST up reply actions 10 recs
“I am going to FUCK this Russian primadonna up!”
Please, call me F&B.
by Rob Parker on Feb 6, 2012 11:38 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
“Damien Cox said he’s Russian so he’s gotta be enigmatic. And there was that fight with Mike Green and…”
POW
“… I like turtles….”
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by MikeL-Pivonka on Feb 6, 2012 2:10 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
That was a complete prayer of a swing from Kovalchuk.
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by YvonLabresMoustache on Feb 6, 2012 11:41 AM EST up reply actions
wow…that hurt…I dont think a more experienced brawler takes that shot that cleanly
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and schenn wasn’t far removed from his concussion. bad choice, brayden.
by Natty Bumppo on Feb 6, 2012 1:55 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Although if he’s completely healed, then why does timing matter? Would it be “smarter” to fight a month from now? Next season? Presumably once you’re healed you’re healed, so why does fighting right away change that? Just optics?
Please, call me F&B.
you think we know enough about brain injuries that we can label a player “completely healed” with no fear of compound concussion symptoms and long-term consequences? i’d give it a few years, myself. from what i’ve read, the medical community doesn’t have perfect answers. but if you’re brayden schenn and your paycheck has nothing to do with dropping the gloves, then sure, keep the gloves on the rest of your career.
in other words, maybe it’s a different story for erskine or hendricks, who need to show their value hasn’t been diminished by the injury. not wiser health-wise, but the motivation would be understandable.
Yeah, but that gets more to the heart of the fighting debate than it does to the concussion debate. I completely agree with you on the limits of what we know, that’s why I’ve questioned how the doctors can say that flying with a concussion only has “short-term effects.” How many “mild concussions” have been on short-term recovery schedules and then dragged out? So in that sense I agree, but if the fear is that the “healed” players aren’t really healed, then they shouldn’t be on the ice at all.
I understand that fighting presents a clear and identifiable risk of getting punched in the head, but all game long Schenn was at risk of getting hit by any number of objects, legally or illegally. So if you still have the fear that he might suffer a compound concussion, he shouldn’t play, period.
Please, call me F&B.
So in that sense I agree, but if the fear is that the "healed" players aren’t really healed, then they shouldn’t be on the ice at all.
i don’t think the issue will ever be black-and-white enough to make “fully healed” proclamations. so if that’s what we accept as truth—that even the doctors can’t have 100% certainty—then it becomes a case of managing risk. one way to manage risk would be to sit the player out. if the player is on the ice, then obviously he can’t avoid errant pucks or his share of hits, but he can minimize his risk by staying away from fights.
re: the decision to sit or start, there’s been a point of emphasis in the NFL to have independent neurologists make the decision, so neither the player nor the team has motivation conflicting with the player’s health. does anyone know if that’s been discussed by the NHL?
Again, how does that statement not argue for the general abolition of fighting (as your boy RCheli has argued several times)?
Please, call me F&B.
Go me!
No more fighting in the NHL! It’s not needed! Blah, blah!
(Though that’s honestly how I feel.)
Good to see you here, Mr. Proteau!
(all snark aside, that’s how I feel too, actually)
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by YvonLabresMoustache on Feb 6, 2012 3:14 PM EST up reply actions
I’m a bit conflated because I like watching fights. It’s exciting. I just think it’s the easiest way to eliminate some (and I have to emphasize the word some) head injuries.
Jay Beagle from Asham.
Matt Cooke from Evander Kane.
Did DiPietro get a concussion from Brent Johnson?
Taylor Hall didn’t get a concussion, but he got hurt fighting.
Didn’t Troy Brouwer hurt Christian Ehrhoff this season?
Ehrhoff: was it the punch, or the head hitting the ice? I’m guessing the latter.
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I don’t think it’s even remotely fair to try to sneak broken hands into this discussion.
Please, call me F&B.
Who broke his hand? I thought Hall hurt his knee.
Anyway, what about Todd Bertuzzi and Steve Moore. That was sort of a fight.
Look, those were ones I thought of off the top of my head, and I’m sure there are a ton more.
Again, I love a good fight. Those fights in the 80s where the guys sweaters came flying off were exciting. But I just don’t know if it’s all worth it.
Steve Moore and Todd Bertuzzi is even a weaker argument. I think we can all agree that jumping a guy from behind and slamming him face first into the ice is a bad play.
Put differently, would how you feel about that play be any different if either player had recently returned from a concussion?
Please, call me F&B.
I think it does count because Bertuzzi kept on wanting to fight Moore, and Moore turned him down. So Bertuzzi jumped him.
And I don’t know what you mean by the second part. I don’t think I could be any more disgusted at Bertuzzi, regardless of previous injuries.
My point is that Bertuzzi and Moore didn’t fight. It was a mugging. Obviously there is no place for that. You’re forcing your agenda here.
This started as a question of whether or not players who have had concussions should fight. The questions about Schenn’s judgments stem from his decision to fight after being cleared for a concussion. The disdain for Bert/Moore has nothing to do with either guy having a history of head injuries. It was the single most goonish act I’ve seen. Don’t even try to pretend like it was a fight or the kind of play you determine policy off of.
Please, call me F&B.
It wasn’t a fight, but it was because of a fight (or a non fight). Moore hit Naslund and injured him. The Canucks thought it was a dirty hit (it wasn’t, but Marc Crawford put a bounty on Moore’s head). In a subsequent game, out to do damage, various Canucks challenged him to fight. He didn’t want to go — and shouldn’t have had to.
Bertuzzi, unable to take no for an answer (and his team losing 8-2) jumped him because Moore wouldn’t fight.
This has everything to do with fighting.
This is why I don’t like you.
(Also, did you know that Moore fought Matt Cooke earlier in the same game? Which makes what Bertuzzi did even more despicable.)
Yes. I did. He fought and they got it over with. That’s why Moore didn’t feel the need to fight Bertuzzi.
Using Bert on Moore as a reason fighting should be illegal is like using a gang rape as the reason everyone should be abstinence only.
Please, call me F&B.
by Rob Parker on Feb 6, 2012 4:41 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Scott Walker from… oh, I forget who, at the end of the ’09-10 season.
Reporter: "What’s your Mom’s birthday?"
Tortorella: "I have no idea."
Walker and Aaron Ward. Wasn’t a clean fight, though. Total sucker punch.
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i think it is a perfectly independent argument from the question of banning fighting. again, it’s an issue of managing risk. like YLM described above, there are inherent risks in playing the sport and everyone involved (even the fans) accepts that reality. there are risks in skating, there are risks in hitting, there are risks in fighting.
yes, fighting increases your chances of injury, and thus banning fighting might prevent injuries on the whole. but the same can be said of hitting or blocking shots. since the majority of hockey people seem to accept fighting as part of the game, then it’s just another in a long list of risks that a player can manage. i understand the fighting is compulsory for certain players because that’s the skill that allows them to wear an NHL jersey. therefore they incur a greater health risk, and can’t manage risk by avoiding fights. but the same goes for other players whose skills (skating, shooting, whatever) got them to the NHL, and puts them at risk for reasons besides fighting. if a player is one of the best at blocked shots (dan girardi, josh gorges)…he accepts his increased risk in order to contribute to his team. we all accept his increased risk. if a player suffers repeated injury or faces long-term consequences from another injury, then he can either minimize risk on the ice or he can retire. both happen all the time, and we accept it.
it’s when we decide that fighting isn’t a part of the game that it’s fair game to be banned on health reasons (though then you get the counter-argument that fights have a role in preventing cheap shots). to me, that’s a separate argument.
I don’t really see how it’s separate. It’s just preferential.
If you are talking about limiting a marginal risk for a player who has been declared healthy, then there’s no reason not to limit that risk for all players, aside from the Boogaard sub-set that is only in the league because they can fight. So any player with NHL level talent shouldn’t fight is what it boils down to when I read it.
Please, call me F&B.
so ban lying on the ice to block shots, also.
any player with top-6 talent that has had even a single concussion should consider never fighting again. and if the odds are greater sooner after the last incident—and we think they are—then definitely don’t fight in your first few weeks back. i don’t see why that condemns fighting altogether.
i’m indifferent in the fighting argument. i wouldn’t mind seeing fights abolished, but that’s because i don’t care much about them as a fan.
I’m not talking about banning anything. If Dan Girardi has an LBI and then gets cleared to play but with instructions not to block shots then I don’t think he should be cleared to play.
If Cal Clutterbuck has a UBI and gets cleared to play but not to finish his checks, then he’s not healthy enough to play.
If B. Schenn is cleared to play, cleared to take hits and go into the corner, but not cleared to fight, then he’s not healthy enough to play.
It’s easy to say “don’t fight, it’s a needless risk” because it’s a marginal part of the game and so you feel like you could just cut the risk without losing much. It’s not tied to his concussion; if there are risks from his recent concussion then he shouldn’t take a bodycheck either. So now it’s just about the absolute risk fighting poses, which implies just abolishing it.
At this point I don’t really care about fighting either. Shelley on Orr does nothing for me. I’d rather it be in the game as it was intended to be, but since that day is gone it doesn’t matter to me. But saying that a guy shouldn’t fight because he had a recent concussion but that he can take on the other risks inherent to the game just doesn’t make sense to me.
Please, call me F&B.
The difference is is that those examples for Clutterbuck and Girardi are part of the game play. Schenn’s is not.
So you’re admitting that it’s preferential. You don’t personally see any role for fighting in hockey, which obviously makes it a lot easier to justify your conclusion.
Please, call me F&B.
players play hurt all the time in sports. you know that. they take risks with their bodies all the time. to your point below: i’m not trying to make the point that fighting is more or less important than hitting or blocking shots, i’m trying to make the point that for brayden schenn it has very little importance. we complain when alex ovechkin blocks shots (at least i do).
Right, players play hurt. “Healthy” means different things for pro athletes and desk jockeys. But when an NHL player is deemed “healthy” that means they should be able to do all of the activities in the game. It may hurt Girardi to block that next shot, or Clutterbuck to finish that next check, but they can suck it up and do it.
The head is different. As far as I understand it, “healthy” after a concussion means “symptom free after some period of time including vigorous exercise and full contact practice.” So now you’re in the position of saying that even a symptom free player isn’t healed, or at least that you don’t trust the doctors when they say he is. I’m not really sure where that path takes us.
Please, call me F&B.
gronkowski played in the super bowl without being able to make cuts on his bad ankle. he more-or-less said “i can cut right no problem, but not left.” it’s up to the coach to figure out if a guy can be effective without blocking shots or fighting, and a lot of players—not just the goons—might not have a roster spot without the willingness to fight. which i think is what matt hendricks alluded to at one point as advice from an older player? preparing for class, no time to dig up.
bottom line: i don’t think there is a hard line between minimizing risk and avoiding it altogether. if there reaches a point where by minimizing your own personal risk on the ice, you are jeopardizing your team, then yes you shouldn’t be out there. most coaches i believe would be happy with ryan nugent-hopkins turning down every fight from now until he retires.
Right, but that’s RNH. He never played with the kind of grit Schenn came up with. It’s part of Schenn’s game. If you want to change that, ok. But if he’s deemed healthy he should be able to play his game. If you are worried that he’s going to get another (worse) concussion if he fights then how do you even dress him? He’s going to be subjected to much greater risk every time he battles for the puck.
I don’t want Nick fighting when he returns to the lineup, but that has nothing to do with him returning from a concussion. If when he returns we are saying “I’m scared if he fights because he might suffer a compound concussion” then I’d say don’t dress him.
Please, call me F&B.
I never really thought he was a first line guy. I thought he was supposed to be a good two-way secondary scorer but I guess it depends on who you ask.
His junior career he had between 48-82 PIM per season. Not exactly racking up the PIMs but you can be sure he picked up some fights in there.
Please, call me F&B.
How thorough are they on CHL fighting? I thought it was mostly just professional leagues.
Please, call me F&B.
If I were Schenn or any player that recently had a diagnosed concussion, I would beg out of a fight. You don’t have to go.
(By preferential I mean it’s ok to take away fighting to minimize risk because it’s not as important as hitting or shot blocking, etc. It reveals more about how you feel about the particular action than anything else. If the guy isn’t healthy enough to go out and play the full game then he shouldn’t be playing at all. You don’t trust the medical diagnosis that he’s healthy because brains are crazy, so then you can never really be sure that a guy is “healthy” so when is it acceptable to take the fighting risk?)
Please, call me F&B.
With head injuries you never know when the symptoms will rear their heads again. I got a concussion about 5 1/2 years ago and I still have the occasional bouts of dizziness, nausea, etc. The problem with concussions and their diagnosis, is that there is never a sure bet that symptoms won’t return.
This is what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps.
by That Beardy Guy on Feb 6, 2012 3:05 PM EST up reply actions
I haven’t watched Carolina much this season, but a little surprising to read this; I was more surprised about the contract to begin with when he signed. Rutherford isn’t afraid of admitting mistakes, Kaberle, now possibly this .
TSNBobMcKenzie Bob McKenzie
Hearing CAR’s Anthony Stewart is being put on today’s waiver wire at 12 noon ET. Stewart has one more full season at $900K on his contract.
It is of note that two teams have chosen not to tender a QO and now Carolina is waiving him:
2011/07/02 Signed as an unrestricted free agent by the Carolina Hurricanes to a two-year contract.
2011/06/28 Winnipeg Jets did not tender a qualifying offer.
2010/07/16 Re-signed as a restricted free agent by the Atlanta Thrashers to a one-year contract.
2009/07/13 Signed as an unrestricted free agent by the Atlanta Thrashers.
2009/06/29 Florida Panthers did not tender a qualifying offer .
I know, but for a relatively small contract, he is tempting, no? Last year, when he had a lot of ice time, he was able to put up decent numbers. This year, when he’s averaging until 8 minutes a game, he’s completely dropped off a cliff.
Sure, and he’s been given a chance to do something with it. He never has. What kind of team is going to take him? A team that is rebuilding is going to want to take a look at guys with more upside, a contender is going to want a real player. Maybe a team that is injury-riddled in their bottom 3/6 would take a look at him.
Please, call me F&B.
For what he’s due and what the new team will be required to give him, I would think most any team would look at him and say, “We can change him” or “He’s not the worst guy in the world to be the 13th forward who can step in and play if an injury comes up” and they won’t have to break the bank to get him.
I mean, if the Caps have an opportunity (and he isn’t claimed), why wouldn’t they take a chance? I mean, isn’t Stewart an upgrade over Hendricks? Or Eakin, Aucoin, Beagle?
Beagle, certainly. Aucoin, maybe. Eakin – at this point, maybe. Hendricks – I don’t think so. That said, I’d like to see the Caps put in a claim – he would improve the 4th.
Failure is always an option.
Stewart is better than Aucoin, and Hendricks has 6 points in 48 games. Beagle definitely, and I think that Eakin would probably benefit from 20 minutes per night in Hershey than 8 minutes a night in Washington.
Except that Aucoin isn’t going to be used as a grinder, he’s a completely different kind of player from Stewart. Aucoin could conceivably be on a PP unit.
Eakin is the kind of player I referenced above regarding rebuilding teams. Why would you give a sweater to a guy you know has topped out when you can get a look at/develop a young and promising prospect?
Hendricks is better.
Please, call me F&B.
Aucoin, to maximize his talents, shouldn’t be used on the third/fourth lines, but that’s likely where he is going to skate.
And how is Hendricks better? Because he fights more?
Because he is on an NHL team that isn’t begging other teams to take him off their hands?
How is Astew better? Because he was really good when he was 18? If Astew wasn’t a first round pick would anyone even have given him a sniff after 2007? How many (bad) teams need to check him out and jettison him?
Please, call me F&B.
Totally agree about Eakin. I’d prefer to see him stay in Hershey for the rest of the season. Aucoin could be more productive than Stewart, if he’s not being used on the 4th – which I don’t see happening. Hendricks is having a bad year in scoring (as is the rest of the 4th), but he helps out with his fighting and hitting.
Failure is always an option.
Isn’t Chris Stewart’s future kind of up in the air with the Blues, too?
That'll make your weagle wink!
"You're the boss, apple sauce" - @GreenLife52
How is Jon Stewart’s career at Comedy Central looking? Are his numbers acting as a setup man for Stephen Colbert dwindling?
by Rather Bengt on Feb 6, 2012 12:10 PM EST up reply actions
If it’s any solace to all of them, Rod Stewart has had some amazing staying power, and Jimmy Stewart acted for many, many years. Jackie Stewart, however, had only a few good seasons on the track.
Nice guys finish first, but sometimes the season is awfully long.
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Rod SS is his non-union German equivalent.
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by YvonLabresMoustache on Feb 6, 2012 12:30 PM EST up reply actions
I gotta admit, I miss the guy a little bit
Corey Perry reprised his mini-stick routine Saturday at Honda Center, the Ducks’ forward busting out the move that was so popular during All-Star weekend festivities.
Participating in the breakaway event during the Ducks’ annual skills competition, Perry scored again using the tiny goalie stick.
It was Bruce Boudreau, however, who punctuated the performance this time, telling the crowd, "It’s great that he could score with Jason Blake’s stick."
When Sheldon Brookbank struggled during a shooting drill, Boudreau said, "I can see why Sheldon hasn’t scored a goal this season."
When a rules controversy erupted between Perry and Teemu Selanne, Boudreau said, "To me, the older guy is always right. And, Teemu, by far, is the older guy."
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by YvonLabresMoustache on Feb 6, 2012 12:19 PM EST reply actions
Related to this, I’d pay cash money to see annual team skills competitions come back across more of the league.
"My favorite fan base in D.C. Is United's. Period. The end." - Steinberg
Which DC sports team has the Most Valuable Players? That would be DC United, a team being pushed out by the city. Help Keep United in DC so they can receive a fair deal on a lease and help develop a path to build a stadium with local investment and incentives.
by Bald Pollack on Feb 6, 2012 12:23 PM EST up reply actions
That was so much fun. I have such great memories of Alan May and Al Iafrate wearing bandannas and goofing around.
Plus, it was free to the public, which was awesome. I also remember a time where they opened up the Cap Centre to the public and let you watch the Stanley Cup Finals between Minnesota and Pittsburgh there.
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by YvonLabresMoustache on Feb 6, 2012 12:25 PM EST up reply actions
Same here. I’m planning on doing a post after the season on ideas to make NHL better. Adding skills comps for every team and then having a league wide one at NHL awards is one of them. Yes, that means dumping the wretched exhibition game.
The Artist Formerly Known as CP2Devil.
Associate Editor at Five For Howling.
how many more years and how many more millions of dollars are the Flyers on the hook for?
Pledge Drive 2011-2012: CARSON KOLZIG FOUNDATION! Season Pledge total--$1210.35!
He signed a 9 year, 51 million dollar deal this summer
2011-12 $10,000,000 $10,000,000 $0 $5,000,000 $5,666,667
2012-13 $6,500,000 $6,500,000 $0 $0 $5,666,667
2013-14 $8,000,000 $8,000,000 $0 $0 $5,666,667
2014-15 $6,000,000 $6,000,000 $0 $0 $5,666,667
2015-16 $6,000,000 $6,000,000 $0 $0 $5,666,667
2016-17 $5,500,000 $5,500,000 $0 $0 $5,666,667
2017-18 $5,500,000 $5,500,000 $0 $0 $5,666,667
2018-19 $2,250,000 $2,250,000 $0 $0 $5,666,667
2019-20 $1,250,000 $1,250,000 $0 $0 $5,666,667
KNOWN CLAUSES: NMC
LOL.
"Now fair's fair Henry. If I nail Hotlips and punch Hawkeye, can I go home too?
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by YvonLabresMoustache on Feb 6, 2012 12:26 PM EST up reply actions
Holy mother. He’s making 10 million this year AND has a 5 million signing bonus?!
/slow whistle
"Now fair's fair Henry. If I nail Hotlips and punch Hawkeye, can I go home too?
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by YvonLabresMoustache on Feb 6, 2012 12:27 PM EST up reply actions
and a NMC?! Holmgren’s a freaking genius!
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I hope Holmgren stays forever and never leaves.
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by YvonLabresMoustache on Feb 6, 2012 12:28 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Although this trade is certainly one big joke, we should be careful in evaluating Holmgren’s overall performance on this one trade alone. It will take a couple more years for the final evaluations, but I am in the corner that says the Richards & Carter deals will work out pretty damn well for the Flyerz.
Bryz was a FA signing, no?
The Carter and Richards deals came at least partially in order to fit Bryz under the cap. And also I think in order to drastically alter the makeup of the team,
Finally, Bryz’s signing reeks of Ed Snider to me, so I’m not sure you can lay the whole thing completely at Holmgren’s feet.
Patron saint of quality footwear.
I think Bryz was traded to Philly after the season ended, so Philly would have the opportunity the exclusively negotiate a deal. I can’t recall of the deal was finished before free agency began.
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June 7, 2011: Traded to Philadelphia by Phoenix for Matt Clackson, Philadelphia’s 3rd round choice in 2012 Entry Draft and future considerations, June 7, 2011.
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by YvonLabresMoustache on Feb 6, 2012 2:35 PM EST up reply actions
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Well mine wasn’t as much about that one trade, it’s the bigger picture. If Ed wanted a goalie so bad, and there were only two real options on the market (Bryz and Vokoun) then instead of just trading for Bryz and showing your cards (we are going to sign a big name goalie… and it’s you) and putting all the leverage in Bryz’ camp, they should have traded for both Bryz and Vokoun, then started a bidding war and signed the cheaper goalie. Tell them both they don’t care which guy they sign, make it clear that whoever doesn’t sign is going to be out in the cold (as Vokoun ended up), and then see who cracks first.
Please, call me F&B.
Good thing Snyder has all that Comcast NBCSN money to spend.
"You can want to get to April but when you get to April you may not like the answers you get, so you might as well enjoy the ride while it's going on." - Brian McNally on JRR, 8/29/2011
Amazing how two sports owners who don’t have many clues on how to spend money are both named Snyder….
Occasionally reporting from Section 421 of the Verizon Center...
by MikeL-Pivonka on Feb 6, 2012 2:15 PM EST up reply actions
That’s huMANNNgous big…
With money like that, he can go kill a tiger….
Occasionally reporting from Section 421 of the Verizon Center...
by MikeL-Pivonka on Feb 6, 2012 2:14 PM EST up reply actions
Geez, @Mirtle reporting on twitter today that both Tom Renney and Liny Ruff got dinged up at practice. Renney took a puck to the head and got stitches.
That'll make your weagle wink!
"You're the boss, apple sauce" - @GreenLife52
Yeah, i caught that, too. Sounds like he went down pretty hard.
That'll make your weagle wink!
"You're the boss, apple sauce" - @GreenLife52
Sounds like a rough situation.
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by YvonLabresMoustache on Feb 6, 2012 2:03 PM EST up reply actions
Besides CAR's Anthony Stewart, other waiver wire happenings
From Bob McK
SJS put Andrew Murray on waivers. BOS puts Zach Hamill on waivers
If he gets waived, he’d be a Blue Jacket by the end of the day, and on some other team at the trade deadline.
Occasionally reporting from Section 421 of the Verizon Center...
by MikeL-Pivonka on Feb 6, 2012 2:16 PM EST up reply actions
Kerstein
#Caps Chimera said he thought it has hurt them not playing meaningful games to make the playoffs down the stretch the last few seasons
So I’m clear, playing the Pens and B’s four of the last ten games of the ‘09-’10 year and the Hawks, Wings and Flyers in the last 13 games last year weren’t meaningful? These guys need to harden the fuck up.
"My favorite fan base in D.C. Is United's. Period. The end." - Steinberg
Which DC sports team has the Most Valuable Players? That would be DC United, a team being pushed out by the city. Help Keep United in DC so they can receive a fair deal on a lease and help develop a path to build a stadium with local investment and incentives.
What Stanley Cup champion of recent memory played meaningful games down the stretch? The Bruins, Blackhawks, Penguins, and Red Wings all had high seeds sewn up well in advance of the playoffs.
You asked, I looked (of course we can debate “meaningful”). In their last 10:
The B’s played the Rags twice, the Flyers and Hawks once (among NYI, NJ, OTT, ATL, TOR and MON).
The Hawks played the Wings three times, the B’s once (among MON, CLB, STL, ANA, FLA, PHX).
Pens played the Flyers and Rags once (among MON, NYI, TB, CAR, NJD, CAL, LAK, FLA).
Wings played the Jackets 4 times and the Hawks, Preds and Blues twice.
"My favorite fan base in D.C. Is United's. Period. The end." - Steinberg
Which DC sports team has the Most Valuable Players? That would be DC United, a team being pushed out by the city. Help Keep United in DC so they can receive a fair deal on a lease and help develop a path to build a stadium with local investment and incentives.
Yeah, I can’t imagine there’s any correlation between playing “meaningful” games late and playoff success. Maybe for an opening game or two for a team that coasted in (hi there, 2010!)… but then again, the teams that battle to the end may take a breather when they’re finally in (hi there, 2008!).
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Curious what the context was for his comments, especially seeing tweets about quotes from Alzner about must win home games.
It’s all part of the plan, get coach fired, lose games, have to win last week of season to qualify… yeah right because they need to be playing meaningful games late in the season.
I’m sure it’s just trying to put a b.s. positive spin on the predicament in which they find themselves. But I haven’t seen the question or any such context.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
I, for one, am not reading anything into Hunter’s comments about Laich today. Sounds like he hadn’t seen the doctor before Hunter’s comments were made. Hopefully, there is good news and it’s minor, but for now, just hoping.
Is anyone taking Hunter’s comments as positive or negative? I mean, I’m sure someone is, but anyone with a brain?
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
Usually a safe bet to guess that someone somewhere is dumber than a box of rocks.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
As long as Steigerwald is breathing on this earth.
That'll make your weagle wink!
"You're the boss, apple sauce" - @GreenLife52
by boutros23 on Feb 6, 2012 1:41 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Ugh… I just imagined what his breath must smell like (and I’ll save F&B/D’oh the time – yes, sheep balls).
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
by J.P. on Feb 6, 2012 1:43 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
need help w a class
I’m in an Ethics in Sport class and I’m looking for source material on a paper I’m writing on fighting in hockey. I remember that TEB wrote a piece a while ago talking about Matt Hendricks and how the tough-guy schtick was a huge part of him making it to the next level in hockey. I think it featured interviews with his wife and dad. I couldn’t find it after some cursory google searching, so I was wondering if anyone would be able to help me?
Also, if you folks have any good articles about hockey fighting off the top of your heads, I’d much appreciate the help!
by Mike Wise, from late April or early May 2009, if you’re looking for it.
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Just look for the last game Brash played for the Caps – it’s a few days after that, IIRC.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
here you go: For Washington Capitals forward Matt Hendricks, fighting is all in a day’s work, by Paul Farhi
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Just keep that article away from Mr. Tony, because he HAAATES Paul Farhi.
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by YvonLabresMoustache on Feb 6, 2012 1:59 PM EST up reply actions
I come bearing the other links:
Mike Wise on Donald Brashear – Fighting’s a Way of Life
New York Times on Derek Boogaard: Part One
January 31’s clips mentioned the release of Stadium Journey Magazine and the website’s Verizon Center review, but did you know:
Stadium Journey Magazine has ranked Verizon Center as the top NHL venue and the fourth-best venue in the country in their "Best Stadiums of 2011" issue
http://washingtoncapitals.tumblr.com/post/17161949074/verizon-center-ranked-top-venue-in-nhl
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