Tuesday Caps Clips: Isles @ Caps Game Day
by J.P. on Feb 28, 2012 6:33 AM EST
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PrintYour savory breakfast links:
- Previews (and such) of tonight's fracas with the Fishsticks from Vogs, NHL.com, Peerless, RMNB and CRtC, and be sure to check out our SB Nation partner Lighthouse Hockey for more coverage from the other side of tonight's match-up.
- Notes and assorted whatnot from yesterday's practice out at Kettler:
- In general. [Caps365 video (Rinkside Update, Hunter, Ovechkin, Wideman, Ward, Laich, Vokoun), WaPo, WashTimes, CSNW]
- On the two Caps that might've been most-expected to be shipped out of town yesterday. [NHL.com, WaPo, WashTimes (and again), DCEx (and again), CSNW, KOL]
- Nicklas Backstrom, it was revealed, now resides on Long-Term Injured Reserve (which, in and of itself, may or may not mean much of anything at all). [WashTimes, WaPo]
- So, uh, that was a bit of a deadline dud, eh? [Caps365 video (McPhee), Dump 'n Chase, WaPo (and again and again), WashTimes (and again), CSNW (and again), DCEx, 106.7 The Fan, AP, Sporting News, ESPN, SB Nation DC, Frankovic, Peerless, OFB, DSP, RMNB, Sick Unbelievable, RtR, hockey hourly, Nosebleeds, Homer McFanboy, Hockey's Future]
- Speak softly and carry no stick? [WashTimes]
- What holding 'em might mean. [WaPo]
- Karl Alzner is the jewel of the Caps' 2007 draft class. Duh. [Hockey's Future]
- Well here's a pretty money customized jersey. [Mr. Irrelevant]
- With a little paper transaction, the Caps made Dmitry Orlov eligible for the AHL playoffs in the event that he's not playing here well into May. Ahem. [Patriot-News]
- Finally, happy 44th birthday to Jeff Greenlaw and happy 54th to Jay Johnston.
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Third game in a row against a subpar opponent. Hope the results are the same as the first two.
The Artist Formerly Known as CP2Devil.
Associate Editor at Five For Howling.
Crush the small countries.
You perhaps knew me better as "Your Nation's Capital." Same great commentary, now with 100% more transparency!
by EmilyB on Feb 28, 2012 6:41 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Edmonton did us a huge favor last night by knocking off the Jets.
Unconscionable for them to drop that game.
"Now fair's fair Henry. If I nail Hotlips and punch Hawkeye, can I go home too?
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Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Feb 28, 2012 7:15 AM EST up reply actions
the Ukraine is weak!
To alcohol, the cause of--and solution to--all of life's problems.
by Alz in the family on Feb 28, 2012 9:56 AM EST up reply actions
Caps used to own the Islanders. I think it’s gone the other way lately.
"Pub. Ah, yes: a meeting place where people attempt to achieve advanced states of mental incompetence by the repeated consumption of fermented vegetable drinks."
OTOH, the Isle have always played the Caps tough, even when the Caps were pulling out wins against them.
Patron saint of quality footwear.
True, a lot of OT winners there, and one very long shoot-out. So long that Caps-Killer Jon Sim got a shot at winning it.
Occasionally reporting from Section 421 of the Verizon Center...
by MikeL-Pivonka on Feb 28, 2012 9:41 AM EST up reply actions
Looking forward to more of General Manager Kristoffer Backstrom’s thoughts on team improvement.
"My favorite fan base in D.C. is United's. Period. The end." - Steinberg
Fair deal on a lease? Apparently accomplished, though the mission is not complete. Let's Keep United in DC and realize the dream of a stadium with local investment and incentives to US Soccer's greatest club franchise.
by Bald Pollack on Feb 28, 2012 6:41 AM EST reply actions 5 recs
No idea. Hope he sit the next couple of plays out though.
"My favorite fan base in D.C. is United's. Period. The end." - Steinberg
Fair deal on a lease? Apparently accomplished, though the mission is not complete. Let's Keep United in DC and realize the dream of a stadium with local investment and incentives to US Soccer's greatest club franchise.
by Bald Pollack on Feb 28, 2012 7:02 AM EST up reply actions
*sits, ugh
/Waits for 5 Hour Energy to kick in
"My favorite fan base in D.C. is United's. Period. The end." - Steinberg
Fair deal on a lease? Apparently accomplished, though the mission is not complete. Let's Keep United in DC and realize the dream of a stadium with local investment and incentives to US Soccer's greatest club franchise.
by Bald Pollack on Feb 28, 2012 7:03 AM EST up reply actions
If we knew anything about the game, we’d be related to someone who was in it.
You perhaps knew me better as "Your Nation's Capital." Same great commentary, now with 100% more transparency!
by EmilyB on Feb 28, 2012 7:06 AM EST up reply actions 27 recs
Anyone ask Joe B about the relationship?
Occasionally reporting from Section 421 of the Verizon Center...
by MikeL-Pivonka on Feb 28, 2012 9:42 AM EST up reply actions
Poll: is GMKB better or worse than Howson?
by jopierce on Feb 28, 2012 7:22 AM EST via iPhone app up reply actions
He can’t be any worse than Howson, that’s the sad part.
Rocking the Red for teams on the banks of the Potomac and at the Gateway Arch and Singing the Blues about Hockey.
He made it pretty much impossible for Nash to come back there next year. Killed all the leverage he had.
"Now fair's fair Henry. If I nail Hotlips and punch Hawkeye, can I go home too?
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by YvonLabresMoustache on Feb 28, 2012 7:37 AM EST up reply actions
If Nash leaves Columbus the way Heatley left Ottawa, let’s hope he’s not sorry. If you ask for a trade when you have a NMC, you’d better be prepared to expand your list of acceptable teams.
"The Caps fan doesn't say, 'is the glass half full' or 'is the glass half empty'. He wonders when the glass is going to spill."
Well, if he can’t partially dictate the terms of where he’d like to be traded, that kinda defeats the purpose of the NMC, doesn’t it?
The whole issue I have is that Howson has completely killed all the leverage he had, because now he HAS to trade Nash. You can’t bring him back and make him the face of your franchise after you’ve publicly gone ahead and said “he wants out”. I don’t like to be “that guy” that calls for people to be fired, but in another way to say that, CBJ has to look to go in a different direction in terms of its GM.
Because of his own stupidity, and frankly, arrogance, he’s going to have to trade Nash now for 30 cents on the dollar and make a Hossa/Dupuis level trade.
"Now fair's fair Henry. If I nail Hotlips and punch Hawkeye, can I go home too?
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by YvonLabresMoustache on Feb 28, 2012 8:34 AM EST up reply actions
That’s certainly true, but you’d be safe in betting that Howson’s not going to make it easy on him. Say San Jose is his first choice (going with one of the deadline narratives). It’s easy for Howson to make it expensive for them. Or make Nash miserable in Columbus. At that point, what’s he going to do? Besides poison the locker room, that is.
Howson may be an idiot, but you can’t argue that he at least tried last summer to do something. Both Columbus and Buffalo proved that you can’t just throw money at free agents to get them to play for you and make it work, although Florida is the exception to the rule currently.
"The Caps fan doesn't say, 'is the glass half full' or 'is the glass half empty'. He wonders when the glass is going to spill."
Good luck making SJS overpay. Their history of picking up big name talent at sell-low moments suggests they are going to fleece CBJ. There’s simply no way SJS offers more than what NYR offered.
Howson is an idiot, end of story. There’s no mitigating factors. Sure, he gets credit for being aggressive and trying to help the team, but he didn’t do enough homework and he ended up trading an unhappy player on a good contract for one of the worst contracts around. And now he’s turned what would have been an immediate-rebuild trade for Nash into something that will most assuredly be less in the summer.
Please, call me F&B.
I agree Howson’s an idiot but I’m not convinced he’ll get less this summer. In theory, more teams can get involved and the NYR probably would do that deal in the summer. So maybe he’s set a floor for Nash’s value. For Columbus’ sake, though, hopefully it’s a floor that Patrick or someone else will be using in negotiations.
by Dirk Dangler on Feb 28, 2012 9:21 AM EST up reply actions
I don’t think you can say for sure that NYR will do that deal in the summer. Given that they have a good shot at the Cup this year they were clearly willing to give up a ton at the deadline for the biggest name being dangled. I’m not sure they would be willing to do the same in the offseason when there are more options out there and after Howson killed his leverage.
Release the Mackan!
by Killer_Carlson on Feb 28, 2012 11:15 AM EST up reply actions
Absolutely not “for sure” but the CW is that better deals are made in the summer when more teams can get involved. Your point about leverage is a good one though.
by Dirk Dangler on Feb 28, 2012 11:34 AM EST up reply actions
Is that the case here, though? It was Nash’s NTC that limited the number of suitors. It’s not like he’s a UFA this summer, like Brad Richards was last year.
"You can want to get to April but when you get to April you may not like the answers you get, so you might as well enjoy the ride while it's going on." - Brian McNally on JRR, 8/29/2011
I’m not sure that the CW is that better deals are made in the summer, from a sellers standpoint. I think it’s generally assumed that in the frenzy and pressure of the trade deadline teams are more likely to overpay for a player than in the offseason when they can consider more options and take more time to think about them.
Release the Mackan!
by Killer_Carlson on Feb 28, 2012 11:50 AM EST up reply actions
Certainly logic to that. But many pundits were predicting that a trade of Nash wouldn’t happen til the summer when more teams have flexibility which is what I cited as the CW. And bagace, I get your point and Nash’s no trade clause hinders Howson somewhat. But I have to believe that Nash will expand that list at least a little over the summer when the alternative may be staying in Columbus.
by Dirk Dangler on Feb 28, 2012 12:52 PM EST up reply actions
Do people believe the offers being reported by media? My guess is there are some either/or combinations in those offers that get lost in translation from leak to reporting.
I’m sure the deal went through several iterations, many of which both would have been acceptable to the Rangers and given CBJ better return than they will receive this summer.
But to answer your specific question, I am willing to believe that the reported deals were on the table, along with others we will never know about.
"You do that, you go to the box, you know. Two minutes, by yourself, and you... feel shame" -Denis Lemieux
at what point does Howson get fired? This is a serious question because as far as I can tell he’s put together the worst team in the league, turned down a massive offer from NYR for Nash and then effectively destroyed any leverage he had to actually get a good return for Nash.
I think Craig Patrick took a position as an ‘adviser’ there recently, so maybe the ownership group talks to him to see what it’d take to get him to be GM.
"My favorite fan base in D.C. is United's. Period. The end." - Steinberg
Fair deal on a lease? Apparently accomplished, though the mission is not complete. Let's Keep United in DC and realize the dream of a stadium with local investment and incentives to US Soccer's greatest club franchise.
by Bald Pollack on Feb 28, 2012 8:49 AM EST up reply actions
Howson should get fired, but he’s going another route by putting pressure on Nash to get Nash to open up his list of teams he is willing to go to….supposedly Nashville had the best deal but Nash didn’t want to go there…
Team is already destroyed at this point it’s about getting the most out of Nash’s trade value and him increasing the # of teams he is willing to go to will do that.
Nashville’s deal was good. NYR’s deal was good. I’d personally probably take the NYR deal but I know Gooback must have been tempting for a team that can’t find a goalie.
Please, call me F&B.
Plus… NASHville. I mean, c’mon.
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Should be no problem since he’s got his own.
"Now fair's fair Henry. If I nail Hotlips and punch Hawkeye, can I go home too?
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by YvonLabresMoustache on Feb 28, 2012 9:56 AM EST up reply actions
and the visuals are not helping!
Cross check and all call.
by bigonetimer on Feb 28, 2012 10:48 AM EST up reply actions
What was NSH’s offer?
Must’ve been rich to top the NYR cornucopia.
Patron saint of quality footwear.
I know precisely zero about the first three names and very little about Wilson, so I’ll take your word for it that it tops NYR’s offer.
Patron saint of quality footwear.
Ryan Ellis is an undersized but highly skilled offensive D. His defensive play is going to be a question but he’s an excellent passer, and has a cannon from the point.
I don’t know much about Laakso but he’s always mentioned in the cadre of young promising D in Nashville.
Wilson was a high pick with a huge frame and hands, but he’s not the best skater and his commitment (especially defensively) has been a questionmark and landed him in Trotz’ doghouse, though he seems to have gotten out of late. He also scored against the Caps in the game that marked the beginning of the end for BB.
I didn’t say it tops NYR’s offer, I’d personally take NYR’s, but if you really need a goalie I can see how Gooback tips the scales.
Please, call me F&B.
Out of curiosity… Why do you call him Gooback?
by Murshawursha on Feb 28, 2012 12:05 PM EST up reply actions
Because of the South Park episode. He’s always trying to take Pekka Rinne’s jaaaaaaaaaahb.
Please, call me F&B.
They took Rinne’s jerb?
"He leaves every ounce of energy that he has on the ice and works very hard at it, and he wants to be the best and he wants to win, If you don’t follow that, you’ve got something wrong with you."
by nogoodtrying on Feb 28, 2012 12:15 PM EST up reply actions
Ellis had 100+ points in the OHL last year, first time a CHL D hit 100 since the mid-90s, I think.
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I believe in next year.
by red army line on Feb 28, 2012 1:01 PM EST up reply actions
I don’t like his size, though. I’m pretty wary of tiny defensemen, especially in this day and age.
"Now fair's fair Henry. If I nail Hotlips and punch Hawkeye, can I go home too?
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Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Feb 28, 2012 2:42 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, I agree, but based on that I think he’d kind of like a right-handed Orlov: undersized, good puck-mover, decent skater, cannon of a shot.
Red Line Station and @RedArmyLine, featuring coverage of the most frustrating team in the NHL
I believe in next year.
by red army line on Feb 28, 2012 2:44 PM EST up reply actions
A lot of folks over on the Cannon were saying that Patrick has a lot of power in the decision making process. If that’s true I’m not sure it would change much; unless he’s trying to tank the team to get Howson fired.
Once you take the fisting element out, it's not romantic anymore.
by Steckel Me Elmo on Feb 28, 2012 9:00 AM EST up reply actions
I don’t see how Howson isn’t fired. God bless Columbus. It’s almost as if they look at all the choking we’ve done and think “It’s not worth it to even try”………….
by CapsDegenerate on Feb 28, 2012 9:03 AM EST up reply actions
Any chance he gets a better deal over the summer than what NYR reportedly offered him? Ridiculous.
Please, call me F&B.
It’s conceivable, because there will potentially be more teams with the flexibility/cap room to add him.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
And there will also be less deadline desperation, more players available without giving up anything, and more high profile players for the teams with cap flexibility to chase. If you are a GM this summer, do you offer a ton to try to get Nash or save your assets and throw all your available cap space at Ryan Suter?
Please, call me F&B.
Well, if I need a forward I’m not looking at Suter and if I need a D, I’m not looking at Nash.
But if you’re asking whether I’d throw assets and cash at Nash or just cash at Parise, it’s a no-brainer.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
Yeah, there’s a positional mis-match but even in that case a stud D >>>>> stud-in-name W. Point being there are going to be more players available to chase than just Nash. Nash may end up in a “consolation award” situation, but then the value of return will go back down because many bidders will have been removed from the equation.
Please, call me F&B.
Yep, all good points (though, IIRC the UFA crop of F’s sucks).
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
Honestly, if I’m even considering Nash’s contract I’d make a run at Semin first. Possibly/probably less money, no cost in assets, better player. Sure, more baggage and wrong passport, but if we are talking about CBJ meeting or beating the NYR offer from yesterday, you’re talking about a very good NHL player, 3 first round picks, and a high-risk, high-reward prospect on top.
Please, call me F&B.
Eh, I don’t see there being much market overlap for those two players, given the realities of the NHL’s old boy’s club of GMs. But the smarter ones (Ken Holland?) would certainly take Semin ten times out of ten over Nash, given their respective costs.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
I buy Nash as overrated (although not highly), but I don’t buy Semin as underrated (I think people still think of him as a 35G+ player, and I think that ship has sailed).
Either way, with salary not an issue, I’d take Nash. If Semin makes closer to $5m next year, I’d be more likely to take Semin.
Unleash the Apathy.
I’d be more likely to take Semin.
We’re going to miss these jokes when he’s gone…
by Twenty Seven Ninety on Feb 28, 2012 9:39 AM EST up reply actions
Nash is making 7.8 through 2018. Semin would have to get an insane deal for me to want Nash over Semin. It doesn’t need to be down to 5. If Semin got his current 6.7 until 2018 (which he won’t), I’d take Semin. But that’s obvious since on the same contract I’d take Semin.
Please, call me F&B.
Because I think Nash is extremely overrated. I think Semin’s the better offensive player and I don’t think he gives any of that up on D. Semin has his inconsistency baggage, but I’d be willing to bet if we watched Nash every game we’d find some stuff that we don’t like. He’s billed as a franchise player. I don’t think he is.
If you can guarantee you have Ryan Getzlaf to play C for Nash and an equally stud opposite wing, then I could be convinced to take Nash. Especially if it’s against a World Championship roster.
Please, call me F&B.
I don’t think either guy is a franchise player, because neither of them is a stud C or D.
That being said, in isolation, I’d take Nash.
Unleash the Apathy.
The notion that there are categorically no franchise wings is just absurd. The list is short, but it’s not 0. I agree that W is the least important position. I disagree with how much you devalue the position. Though it is nice to see you finally dropped G off that franchise list.
Please, call me F&B.
1) Name a “franchise” wing who’s actually won a Cup when he was still the “franchise.”
2) Fuck Ryan Miller.
Unleash the Apathy.
Piss off with your spurious qualifiers. I guess that means Dominick Hasek was never a franchise goalie.
Please, call me F&B.
Exactly. So your distinction is ridiculous. Anything that says Hasek wasn’t a franchise player is patently flawed.
I guess Sundin was never a franchise player. Neither was Pronger. Or Langway. Or Iginla. Or Alfredsson. Gretzky never won anything in LA. Lindros never won in PHI. Guess none of those guys are franchise players.
Please, call me F&B.
by Rob Parker on Feb 28, 2012 10:33 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Holy living fuck, old, broken-down Hasek was most definitely not THE FRANCHISE when he was playing for the Wings in 2002.
Unleash the Apathy.
Yeah. But he was when he played for Buffalo and won nothing. So if “name one guy that won a Cup as the franchise” is a legitimate qualification on “franchise player” then that means Hasek wasn’t a “franchise player” in Buffalo, which is about the most ridiculous claim anyone has made in the history of ever.
Please, call me F&B.
by Rob Parker on Feb 28, 2012 10:38 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I’m not really sure why we’re discussing Hasek.
My point was only about wings. I think you can find goalies who won the Cup as the franchise.
Unleash the Apathy.
Your initial statement was that a guy can’t be a franchise player unless they are a stud C or D. Then you asked me to name a “franchise W” that won a Cup as the franchise, as if winning a Cup is a logical imperative to be “the franchise.” Then, when confronted with a franchise W that won a Cup, you counter that, gasp!, there were other good players on that team. You’ve set up a structure of definitions that precludes any franchise players, or at least allows anyone to doubt the legitimacy of calling anyone a franchise player.
Is Sid a franchise player? Well he won with Malkin. Is Malkin? He won with Sid. Was Sakic? He had Forsberg and Roy. Roy? He had Forsberg and Sakic. Forsberg? He had Sakic and Roy. Yzerman? Fedorov, et. al.
Please, call me F&B.
Then you asked me to name a "franchise W" that won a Cup as the franchise, as if winning a Cup is a logical imperative to be "the franchise."
That’s a mighty logical leap there, Carl Lewis.
Unleash the Apathy.
as if winning a Cup is a logical imperative to be “the franchise.”
That wasn’t the point. The point was if your best player is a wing, you’re not very likely to win a Cup.
Therefore, I would not build a franchise around a wing, even a great one.
Unleash the Apathy.
Bossy was the best player for the Islanders. By a mile. His teams were also stacked. There is no reason you can’t win being built around an elite winger. The trick is having enough almost-as or near-elite players in other positions.
I thought Bossy was great, but I would say that Trottier and Potvin were just as important to that Isles dynasty as Backstrom and Green are as important to the Caps with Ovie.
by Rather Bengt on Feb 28, 2012 11:38 AM EST up reply actions
He’s the closest, but the presence of Lecavalier and Richards somewhat detract from considering him a “franchise” player.
Unleash the Apathy.
You’re probably right.
So does that mean the Capitals should’ve drafted Malkin instead, even though he’s not as good?
No, because Malkin isn’t a franchise player either, troll. When did Malkin win without Crosby and Staal and MAF and Scuderi and Letang and Orpik?
Please, call me F&B.
I was actually being serious.
Say Malkin is 95% as good as Ovechkin, but he plays a much more important position. Is the positional difference worth the talent gap?
There’s a shit-ton more to consider with those two – no way Malkin could’ve done for hockey in this town what Ovi has (and I know people will chime in with “no way Ovi has done for hockey in this town what a Cup would have,” but I think that’s a bit of a canard).
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
I’m being serious too. You’ve asked the Malkin question 3 out of every 5 days for the last two months. We’ve said “no” 10 out of 10 times. We get it, you like to rile up Caps fans. The answer is still no. The answer will be no next time you ask, probably on Thursday. And then it will be no the time after that when you ask. It will likely still be no the next time you ask.
Please, call me F&B.
by Rob Parker on Feb 28, 2012 10:39 AM EST up reply actions 4 recs
You have to calm down, kid. A “franchise wing” list was just posted, showing that nobody led their team to a Cup win. The Caps have a franchise wing. They could’ve picked a franchise center.
And obviously the answer isn’t no for everyone.
A franchise player definition has also been posited proving that nobody is a franchise player because all Cup winners have help. So Malkin isn’t a franchise C.
And it’s actually legitimate to ask whether Malkin is that team’s franchise player, even aside from the ridiculous definitions.
So I’ll mark it down for Thursday Clips, we can talk about AO or Malkin again?
Please, call me F&B.
So basically there is no such thing as a franchise player. Because if you don’t win a Cup you aren’t a franchise player, and if you do win a Cup you have at least a couple other guys that had to be really good, thus detracting from considering them a “franchise” player. Expert manipulation of definitions there.
Please, call me F&B.
I’m not manipulating anything. I’m stating that St. Louis a grey area. He’s clearly a great player, and his performance over the 8-9 years since TB won the Cup suggests that maybe he was that team’s “Franchise” player.
At the time, however, that team also had two “stud” centers. It’s too easy to forget that Lecavalier was once a great player.
Unleash the Apathy.
So name one guy that won a Cup singlehandedly? How can you find any “franchise player” based on the limitations you’ve set up? There aren’t any.
Please, call me F&B.
The ‘93 team wasn’t very good. The first Dryden team beat an amazingly heavily favored Bruins team that was 30 points ahead of them during the regular season.
You’re selling both teams vastly short. They may not have been favorites but they weren’t the ’96 Panthers or the ’03 Ducks.
Please, call me F&B.
The 1971 Bruins team that Montreal beat was probably the best team to not get out of the first round, and maybe the best to not win a Cup. They had a 192 goal differential that year. They scored fewer than 2 goals only 5 times.
Seriously. Just name one.
The best I can think of off the top of my head is Bossy.
St. Louis is another candidate, but that was before Lecavalier fell off a cliff, and Richards was a huge part of that team.
Bellows in 93 with the Canadiens is another candidate, although I think it’s a stretch to consider him a “franchise” player at that point.
I just look around at the “Franchise” wings that have played in my lifetime, and I see precious few of them who won Cups when they were “the Franchise.”
Jagr*
Bure
Selanne*
Kariya
Iginla
Neely
Shanahan*
Hull*
Gartner
Robitaille*
Bondra
Andreychuk*
Tkachuk
Fleury
Mogilny*
Larmer*
Heatley
Kovalchuk
Hossa*
Alfredsson
Bellows***
G. Roberts*
Doan
Leclair*
Gaborik
Nash
O. Nolan
Naslund
Ovechkin
*Won a Cup, but it was either before (Jagr, Roberts, Leclair), or after (Andreychuk, Hull, Shanahan, Mogilny, Selanne, Hossa, Larmer) they were a “Franchise” player.
Unleash the Apathy.
St. Louis is another candidate, but that was before Lecavalier fell off a cliff, and Richards was a huge part of that team.
Lecavalier hadn’t fallen off a cliff at that point because he hadn’t even made it to the top of the cliff in 2004. His two best seasons were 06-07 (108 pts) and 07-08 (92 pts). In 03-04 he had 66 pts, which is right in line with his last 4 “fall off a cliff” seasons where he has posted point totals of 67, 70, 54 (in 65 games) and 46 (through 58 games).
Release the Mackan!
by Killer_Carlson on Feb 28, 2012 11:31 AM EST up reply actions
Oh and MSL won the Art Ross and Hart trophies that year. So yeah, saying anyone else was the franchise player for TB even back then isn’t really accurate.
Release the Mackan!
by Killer_Carlson on Feb 28, 2012 11:33 AM EST up reply actions
Even if I grant you St. Louis (and I think the performances of Lecavalier and Richards attenuate this to a large degree), That’s still one team in 30 years since Bossy.
Unleash the Apathy.
So having a help up front means that MSL wasn’t a franchise player. So I assume then that you would say that Yzerman and Sakic were not franchise players either?
Release the Mackan!
by Killer_Carlson on Feb 28, 2012 11:46 AM EST up reply actions
No. On the other hand, I do find it relevant to point out that St. Louis had two excellent centers playing on his team.
Still, I grant that St. Louis looks like the lone exception.
Unleash the Apathy.
And it’s also relevant that Yzerman and Sakic both had excellent centers and wings playing on their teams. So what we’ve come to is that a team needs multiple great players to win a Cup. A team with an elite W and nothing else is fucked. But so is a team with an elite C or D with nothing else. NSH has 2 elite D and they just last year finally won a series. PIT had generational Cs in Lemieux and Crosby but didn’t win anything either time until they put a ton of other talent around them.
The “best player title” is a completely arbitrary red herring. A Cup winning team needs several good pieces, and because elite Ws are rarer than elite Cs and Ds and W is a less important position (which no one has argued otherwise) it is more likely that the best player on teams with several pieces will be a C or D.
What really matters in winning a Cup is that you have depth in top end talent. I don’t think it matters a lick if the best player is a W, C, or D if you have that depth (it just won’t likely be a W due to the rarity of elite Ws that are better than great Cs). To argue that the position of the best player inherently matters would mean that holding Backstrom’s production constant the Caps are better off with the current underachieving AO than they are with the MVP AO, because MVP AO means that the best player is a W. That’s a ludicrous assertion. Your making a causation out of a much more nuanced correlation.
Release the Mackan!
by Killer_Carlson on Feb 28, 2012 1:24 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
And it’s also relevant that Yzerman and Sakic both had excellent centers and wings playing on their teams.
It surely is. I never made any claim otherwise.
PIT had generational Cs in Lemieux and Crosby but didn’t win anything either time until they put a ton of other talent around them.
Sure. And Hawerchuk never won anything either. Nor did Sundin. At the same time, both Crosby and Lemieux (and Yzerman and Sakic/Forsberg and Pronger and Toews and Datsyuk) won Cups as the best player on their team. The same is difficult to find with wings.
The "best player title" is a completely arbitrary red herring.
I obviously disagree.
A Cup winning team needs several good pieces, and because elite Ws are rarer than elite Cs and Ds and W is a less important position (which no one has argued otherwise) it is more likely that the best player on teams with several pieces will be a C or D.
This is certainly a possible explanation.
What really matters in winning a Cup is that you have depth in top end talent.
No argument here.
I don’t think it matters a lick if the best player is a W, C, or D if you have that depth
This is where I disagree.
To argue that the position of the best player inherently matters would mean that holding Backstrom’s production constant the Caps are better off with the current underachieving AO than they are with the MVP AO, because MVP AO means that the best player is a W. That’s a ludicrous assertion.
It would be a ludicrous assertion, if that’s what I were saying. I think a better way of phrasing my assertion would be: holding Ovechkin’s production relatively constant, Backstrom, Green, Center X and/or Goalie X would need to perform better, or at least as well as Ovechkin.
In other words, if Ovechkin is the Caps’ best player, the Caps are likely hosed. Other guys at other positions will need to eclipse him. In 2007, it wasn’t that Selanne wasn’t still good – he was – but he certainly wasn’t responsible for carrying that team. Same goes for Shanahan once he joined the Wings, and Hull once he joined the Stars.
Ovechkin will win a Cup once he’s more of a complementary piece to a well-rounded team built around centers and defensemen. As long as he’s the best/most important player on the Caps, I don’t think they’ll win a Cup.
Your making a causation out of a much more nuanced correlation.
Perhaps. I just find the correlation too stark to simply ignore it. It’s possible that it’s merely correlation, but it’s equally possible that there’s a causative effect in my opinion.
Regardless, my original position stands, I wouldn’t build a franchise around either Nash or Semin. Or Ovechkin for that matter.
Unleash the Apathy.
for argument’s sake…Malkin not only outscored Crosby in the playoffs, but won the Art Ross that year and had a higher points per game than Sid did during the regular season to boot (more goals, more assists, better +/-).
Now granted, Malkin probably got to face easier competition thanks to Sid.
Everything ends badly...otherwise it wouldn't end.
by Davethecapsfan on Feb 28, 2012 1:56 PM EST up reply actions
Either way, the leading player was a center. It’s not as though Chris Kunitz carried them to the Cup.
Unleash the Apathy.
Basically it just reinforces the theory you need contributions from throughout your team. Some good bounces in OT games never hurts either.
Everything ends badly...otherwise it wouldn't end.
by Davethecapsfan on Feb 28, 2012 2:00 PM EST up reply actions
Right, and it also calls into question the meaning/importance of the “franchise” label. Crosby is obviously the franchise player. There’s no way to challenge that. Does it matter? He didn’t (and couldn’t) win it alone.
(And I’ll just note that while D’oh says Pronger was undeniably The Franchise for the Ducks, Pronger is gone and Selanne isn’t.)
Please, call me F&B.
Because they also lost Niedermeyer (who I think has just as much of a claim as best player on that team), McDonald, and Giguere.
Most teams won’t be the same when they lose two HOF Dmen, a 1/2C and their starting goalie.
Release the Mackan!
by Killer_Carlson on Feb 28, 2012 3:03 PM EST up reply actions
Regarding Pronger as the franchise player for the Ducks: didn’t he arrive in a trade that same season, onto a team that already had two first-ballot HOFers (including one at his same position) plus a goalie who’d been with the franchise for a long time and who’d won the Smythe only four years earlier?
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by red army line on Feb 28, 2012 3:18 PM EST up reply actions
I dunno. Sean Pronger bounced around to a lot of teams.
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by YvonLabresMoustache on Feb 28, 2012 3:20 PM EST up reply actions
Because I’m bored, I tallied all of the seasons for the elite wingers in your list posted above. I only counted seasons in which these players were the top scorer on the team or close to it). I did not count seasons in which the player was injured for a substantial chunk, or had a down year leading to him being just a contributor. I also made sure not to double count teams that had multiple wingers as their best players.
Total winger-centric team-seasons since 1985 (first year from your list that qualified: 131
Total NHL team-seasons during that time: 678
That’s 19% of team-seasons since 1985 qualifying as winger-centric teams.
Obviously there’s a ton of wiggle room in these numbers. Some of the players on your list I gave 0 qualifying seasons to (leclair); others got fewer seasons than you might like since they were complimentary pieces and not THE MAN that year.
Regardless, I thought it interesting that there so many teams that qualified as winger centric.
by Ginga on Feb 28, 2012 3:01 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Just so I’m not being accused of having a spurious/nebulous qualifier, here’s how I define “Franchise wing,”
A player who is unquestionably the best player on their team at that time, whose career body of work also stands them among the elite in their position (hence, no Hakan Loob).
Teemu Selanne provides a good example: he was unquestionably the best player on his team in Winnipeg, and he and Kariya were the best players on the Ducks during his first tenure there.
When he won the cup in 06-07, however, he was clearly no longer the best player on the Ducks.
Jagr is another example. While he was a good player in 1990-92, he was certainly not the best player on those Penguins teams.
Since that time, however, Jagr was almost always the best player on his team (until, perhaps, this year).
Unleash the Apathy.
I don’t think either guy is a franchise player, because neither of them is a stud C or D.
So do franchise Ws exist or not exist? Are you conflating whether they exist and whether they are wise to invest in? That seems like the only logical resolution to your points.
Please, call me F&B.
It was a throwaway line meant to convey that I wouldn’t build my theoretical franchise around either player.
Quit fixating on it and respond to the substance of what I’ve said.
Unleash the Apathy.
No, you quibbled semantics and then quit.
My point is that any team where a wing is the best player is not going to win a Cup.
This doesn’t necessarily doom the Caps, it just means that they won’t win as long as Ovechkin is the best player.
Perhaps his regression is actually bringing us closer to the Cup.
Unleash the Apathy.
That wasn’t your point. It wasn’t a throwaway line. It was essentially the entire comment.
If your point was that building around a W isn’t wise then we’d just be having the same conversation we’ve had. But categorically saying franchise Ws don’t exist is an entirely different, broader, point.
And then adding on that you have to win a Cup to be a franchise player is another layer of ridiculous. Maybe you just didn’t express you clearly, but it wasn’t a throwaway line and I’m not even sure where the “substantive” part of the argument really lies.
MSL was the best player for the Lightning. They won the Cup.
Please, call me F&B.
Mike Bossy says hi.
Once you take the fisting element out, it's not romantic anymore.
by Steckel Me Elmo on Feb 28, 2012 11:10 AM EST up reply actions
Which I noted. Twice.
I think it’s interesting that, in my lifetime, I can literally think of one team that won a Cup with a winger as their best player.
One. Debatably two if you count St. Louis.
Unleash the Apathy.
Which is obviously counter to any of the points you’ve raised.
Are wings less valuable? Yeah, obviously.
Can a W be a franchise player? Yeah.
Can a team win a Cup with the W as their best player? Yeah.
Please, call me F&B.
by Rob Parker on Feb 28, 2012 11:15 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Can a team win a Cup with the W as their best player? Yeah.
Then why hasn’t it happened since 1983? Even if we count St. Louis, that’s twice in 30 years.
There are typically 8 wings on any given team. Wings are therefore the most numerous players in the league, and yet. . . twice in 30 years.
You don’t find that even mildly intriguing?
Unleash the Apathy.
Prime Ovechkin, Jagr, Bure, Neely, and Selanne were about as good as wings could possibly be, yet not one of them ever won a Cup.
At what point is this no longer anomalous?
Unleash the Apathy.
You’ve moved your point so far that you aren’t even arguing the same original point. If all you’d said was “Ws aren’t as important as Cs and Ds” then there never would have been debate.
Please, call me F&B.
Islanders should count as four. And isn’t that a function of the fact that fewer teams have wingers as their best players? You could make the argument based on position scarcity that if you happen to have an elite winger, you have an advantage. There’s just been fewer chances to assemble such teams, because there are far fewer elite wingers than centers.
Position scarcity? There are more wings in hockey than any other position. They’re the least-scarce position.
Unleash the Apathy.
As for the “there are more elite centers than wings,” of the top-50 all-time scorers, only 15 are wings, 29 are centers and 6 are defensemen.
Unleash the Apathy.
I wasn’t disagreeing. I still think that there are enough “elite” wings by anyone’s definition (Jagr, Bure, Ovechkin, Iginla, Neely, Selanne) to question why they’re so infrequently the best player on a Cup-winning team.
Unleash the Apathy.
You also have Bure losing in game 7 SCF, Iginla losing in game 7 SCF (after having an OT G6 goal wiped out that would have won him a Cup), Neely having his career eviscerated way too early, Jagr winning two Cups, Selanne winning a Cup tied for 2nd in team scoring.
Please, call me F&B.
Jagr and Selanne weren’t close to being the best players on their team when they won their cups.
Unleash the Apathy.
Right. Selanne had to compete with Andy McDonald.
I know Prongermeyer was on that ANA team, but Selanne was easily the best F on that team. He had 48 goals and 94 pts. It’s a complete joke to say that he “wasn’t close” to being the best player on the team. You’re venturing into the territory that any W on a Cup winning team categorically can’t be the best player because they are a W, and thus your argument is unfalsifiable.
Release the Mackan!
by Killer_Carlson on Feb 28, 2012 11:41 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Odd then, that in the playoffs, he was out-scored by both Getzlaf and Perry.
Selanne wasn’t the best player on that team. I never argued much about whether he’s the best forward, because it doesn’t matter. The presence of Prongermayer relegates Selanne.
Unleash the Apathy.
Outscored by Perry meaning “both had 15 points.” Perry’s also a W…
How often do you think the best player on a team doesn’t lead the team in playoff scoring? The fact that he lead the team in scoring by 16 points (closer to 50 and 40, respectively when comparing to Getzlaf and Perry) doesn’t indicate he was actually the best F? Who do you think was facing the top D units that playoffs…
Please, call me F&B.
My point was that if Selanne were so unbelievably great that year as a scoring winger, he at least ought to have led his team in scoring.
As it was, he didn’t even put up more points than Pronger.
The notion that Selanne was the best player on that team is laughable.
Unleash the Apathy.
So is the notion that anyone said he was.
Selanne was the best forward on the 2006-07 Anaheim Ducks. Fact.
Please, call me F&B.
Regular season – I can buy that. Post-season, not so much.
Furthermore, the original point wasn’t “was this guy the best forward” on his team, it was “was this guy the best player – the Franchise.”
At that point, Pronger was clearly the Franchise, and going forward, the Franchise was increasingly Getzlaf and Perry.
Unleash the Apathy.
Freddy Modin outscored Lecavalier in the 2004 playoffs. That means that 2 of the 3 best players on TB were Ws!
Release the Mackan!
by Killer_Carlson on Feb 28, 2012 1:29 PM EST up reply actions
It’s a team sport, and one skater is going to be on the ice for only a third of the game. I would think those players not winning during those years had more to do with a) lack of sufficient other parts on their teams, and b) luck, rather than some undefined impediment to teams winning with a winger as their best player.
I think I’d be more inclined to agree if the distinction weren’t so stark. Accepting St. Louis, that’s one guy in 30 years, and there have been some pretty amazing wings in that time (Jagr, Bure, Selanne, Kariya, Ovechkin, Neely, Hull, etc.)
I have a hard time believing that 1/30 is purely luck.
Unleash the Apathy.
The number is really more like 4-6 in 30 if you count every year’s team separately (which I think you should). Islanders x 4, TB? and Detroit. Then you compare that with the low number of teams competing in that era that actually were built around a winger (or had the winger as their best player, or whatever definition you want). I suspect winger-centric teams might be overrepresented. That settles it: trade Backstrom for Parise!
The lack of winger-centric teams is a great point. D’oh listed all those great wingers, but also went through great pains to show that they were never the best player on their teams. So if we have a bunch of great Ws but they are never the best player then of course we won’t see teams with Ws as their best player win.
Release the Mackan!
by Killer_Carlson on Feb 28, 2012 11:54 AM EST up reply actions
It was essentially the entire comment.
And then I asked you a related, but completely different question.
We’ve had the goalie discussion before. You know where I come down. I think it’s not coincidental that, between 1995 and 2003, the Stanley Cup only went to teams with goalies named Brodeur, Roy, Hasek and Belfour.
The larger point – and one which I personally think is worth discussion – is, why don’t teams whose best player is a wing seem to win the Cup?
Given the sheer numbers alone, we’d expect to see more than Bossy and the iffy inclusion of St. Louis.
Unleash the Apathy.
I think it’s not coincidental that, between 1995 and 2003, the Stanley Cup only went to teams with goalies named Brodeur, Roy, Hasek and Belfour.
I missed this whole discussion but…Mike Vernon? Chris Osgood?
Everything ends badly...otherwise it wouldn't end.
by Davethecapsfan on Feb 28, 2012 1:04 PM EST up reply actions
Did Hasek start with the Wings in ’02?
Everything ends badly...otherwise it wouldn't end.
by Davethecapsfan on Feb 28, 2012 1:10 PM EST up reply actions
The Hasek you’ve already skewered in this thread as a broken down non-franchise goalie?
Please, call me F&B.
At that point? He was good, but he was nowhere near his 95-99 prime.
Career Sv%: .922
From 95-99, was over .930 five times.
2001-2: .915
Unleash the Apathy.
Yes, I’m his agent. I can represent you, too, if you’d like. (I’ll get you in the middle seat during Lunchbox tapings!)
But NHL players in their prime — even coming off of down seasons — do not take pay cuts.
Heh… Semin’s in his prime… good one.
And I hate the center seat – feels like I’m watching a tennis match.
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When you look at his PPG, it goes up and down every other year:
1.17
0.86
1.25
0.90
1.09
0.86
So he’s due for another great season next year.
Prospalnomics?
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by J.P. on Feb 28, 2012 10:18 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
And Rick Nash can’t take a pay cut. Is Semin going to get a raise that puts him at 7.8? No.
In the last three years Nash has had worse Corsi On and Corsi Rel than Semin. The Corsi Rel is particularly damning because Nash is competing against not-so-good players for the Corsi Rel, while Semin is competing against Baxter and AO. The QComp also hasn’t been all that different. The obvious difference is that Nash is on a worse team, so has less help, but Semin, as we all know, hasn’t had a real 2C to play with either so they are both trying to carry a line with no help down the middle. If Semin needs to be able to carry a line without a real 2C in order to earn his 6.7, then shouldn’t Nash have to do that and then more if he’s going to earn his 7.8? Well Nash does less than Semin for more money.
Please, call me F&B.
by Rob Parker on Feb 28, 2012 10:00 AM EST up reply actions 6 recs
m nn. m be bb b b b m. bbbbcb b b
D
You never truly know anyone until you get a look at their hard drive.
by ChrisAm on Feb 28, 2012 10:15 AM EST via iPhone app up reply actions
I missed out on this…what did the Rangers offer?
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by YvonLabresMoustache on Feb 28, 2012 9:56 AM EST up reply actions
……
Yeah I would have taken that deal.
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by YvonLabresMoustache on Feb 28, 2012 10:18 AM EST up reply actions
Well, it did provide some entertainment yesterday. Considering that the team didn’t, at least there was some value to it.
"The Caps fan doesn't say, 'is the glass half full' or 'is the glass half empty'. He wonders when the glass is going to spill."
Sure it did, it made me think that he’s replaced Piers Morgan as the douchiest Arsenal fan on twitter.
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by Bald Pollack on Feb 28, 2012 7:11 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
___
Slow your roll, GMKB. Don’t overplay your hand, or Mother Nature’s going to ask for a sizable return.
Kid’s still got a lot to learn about his new GMing gig, but I like where his head is at.
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by J.P. on Feb 28, 2012 8:23 AM EST up reply actions 9 recs
Something tells me Darth Vader from the planet Vulcan came to him in the middle of the night and threatened to melt his brain if he tweeted again about the trade deadline.
Then again, are we sure we know exactly which Backstrom boy was at the controls of that twitter account?
Just trying to capture the spirit of the thing...
by dcsportsfan1 on Feb 28, 2012 8:41 AM EST up reply actions 7 recs
duh Duh DUH!
At the same time, I like GMKB as an emerging meme.
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A bit of Kuznetsov news* this early a.m. – He has returned to Chelyabinsk from Germany. If the GoogleTrans has it right, the German docs determined he has either a sprain or a deep bruise and they built him a special brace. There are contradictory estimates of his return – most say he’d be ready by the second round of the playoffs and at least one says he could be ready sooner if Traktor can take the first round to six or seven games.
The 2012 Gagarin Cup playoffs begin on Thursday, “Yugra” at “Traktor.” The first round sked is March 1, 2, 4, 5, 7, 9 and 11.
Congrats are in order for Chelyabinsk Traktor, who finished out of the playoff hunt last year and came back this year to finish with 114 points and capture the Continental Cup (the KHL version of the Presidents’ Trophy). The player who scored the 5-4 game-winning goal over Severstal to secure the Cup for Traktor?
Jan Bulis. :)
*As you may imagine, there’s a lot of white noise in the Russian press about this. I’m trying to pick from more credible sources, but no real guarantees that I’m getting it right. Plus, standard googletrans advisories apply.
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by EmilyB on Feb 28, 2012 7:03 AM EST reply actions 4 recs
I, for one, am hoping Traktor gets swept in the first round. Last thing I want to see is Kuznetsov trying to come back to play in the playoffs.
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by Carl Putnam on Feb 28, 2012 7:15 AM EST up reply actions 6 recs
Recall the best scorer of the regular season winners of newly minted NHL suffered a knee injury (sprain) on the last seconds of the home match with “Spartacus.” Canadian defender red-white Andre Benoit blocked Kuznetsova, who crashed into the side. From the ice of the 92nd issue of “Tractor” carried away on a stretcher and then to the “fast” to the hospital to take a picture “scabs.”
The next day came to Eugene to train the team on crutches. The guidance of the club said that in Germany, Kuznetsov again examined, and he appointed a course of treatment. German doctors also make for a striker “Tractor” special knee. In it, he is almost able to walk without pain, and also take a course of rehabilitation.
According to head coach “Bear” Valery Belousov first round of the playoffs, where the club will play with the Chelyabinsk “Ugra” (1, 2, 4, 5, 7, 9 and 11 March – games are up to four wins) Kuznetsov miss. Doctors say the team that released Eugene on the ice only if his knee is fully ready to load. It is possible that the attacker will be able to enter the game until the middle of the second series of the playoffs, and even in the semifinals Gagarin Cup. But before this round of “Tractor” yet to be reached.
The time frame noted here looks a bit more like the three-to-five weeks that’s been reported previously.
You perhaps knew me better as "Your Nation's Capital." Same great commentary, now with 100% more transparency!
I love it – “the 92nd issue of Traktor”. Here’s hoping for a big game tonight from the 8th issue of the Caps!
by Twenty Seven Ninety on Feb 28, 2012 8:50 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
dima
Good for the eagle! I hope he tears it up in the AHL playoffs. Unless of course he’s tearing it up in the NHL!!!
A danger to myself and others on the ice
by can't skate on Feb 28, 2012 7:23 AM EST via mobile reply actions
Of course, we’d rather that the eagle tears it up in the NHL but failing that, tearing it up in the AHL. May the Eagle “Fly like an eagle”.
Speaking of him, I wonder when he’ll be able to play without the face cage.
Rocking the Red for teams on the banks of the Potomac and at the Gateway Arch and Singing the Blues about Hockey.
Tonight, probably. I think Whyno tweeted at practice yesterday that he was given the green light to take it off.
by jopierce on Feb 28, 2012 7:46 AM EST via iPhone app up reply actions
fracas with the Fishsticks
Your efforts do not go unnoticed.
Jaromir Jagr is now 40. That's 280 in Jagr years.
by Acer Jonesy's Laughker on Feb 28, 2012 7:25 AM EST reply actions
The day after the Caps did nothing at the deadline three years ago, I wrote this. I thought it was interesting to look back on (the comments, too).
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I wonder who JP was referring to in the post those as the "future captain" though? Brooks?
Yep. Brooks.
Awkward…
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Fair deal on a lease? Apparently accomplished, though the mission is not complete. Let's Keep United in DC and realize the dream of a stadium with local investment and incentives to US Soccer's greatest club franchise.
by Bald Pollack on Feb 28, 2012 7:33 AM EST up reply actions
Hey, you can get to the Hall of Fame batting around .300…
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Kind of related, nice work yesterday on the stream. Guessing it was a long day?
"My favorite fan base in D.C. is United's. Period. The end." - Steinberg
Fair deal on a lease? Apparently accomplished, though the mission is not complete. Let's Keep United in DC and realize the dream of a stadium with local investment and incentives to US Soccer's greatest club franchise.
by Bald Pollack on Feb 28, 2012 7:41 AM EST up reply actions
Thanks, and yeah, whole lotta nothin’ goin’ on.
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Groundhog Day to a degree, though circumstances and roster situation is different. I think the reasons for not making deals this time were different, but the message essentially remains the same.
Sure you wanted Derek Morris
Assuming whoever wanted him had never seen him play.
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"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the the universe." A.E.
The Artist Formerly Known as CP2Devil.
Associate Editor at Five For Howling.
The evening after J.P. wrote that piece, the Capitals lost to the Leafs 2-1. Three days later they lost to the Penguins 4-3 in a shootout. Their record was 40-21-6 for 86 points.
Then, in their remaining 15 games, the Capitals went 10-5, but did it with six of those 10 wins on the road and a 5-2 close.
If doing nothing at the trade dealine (and a reprint of J.P.‘s post from 2009) can drive the boys to a 66% winning percentage, I’ll take it. The would net us 26 of the remaining 40 points, for a total of 93 points and a likely playoff spot.
Here’s hoping history repeats itself.
Nice guys finish first, but sometimes the season is awfully long.
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Interesting…and we quoted it in this
The title… “Hard Hats and Rock Stars.”
If you've read this far...seek help.
___
Jesus, what a prescient piece.
… Is this a team of rock stars, or is it one of hard hats?
The Caps present a hard hat to a player after each win, symbolic of having given an exemplary effort in a victory. It is a symbol.
The Caps have another symbol of sorts, and it is reflected in the video played before the team takes this ice each game. In it, the Caps are made up to look like rock stars with screaming fans left in their wake as they take the stage.
For this season, we’re now at the point where the team is going to go in one of two directions with the players they have. They will take the hard hat symbol they bestow on one player and take it on as a team symbol, or they will be the rock stars that look splashy in their costumes and last – snap! – that long.
Most rock stars make music that lasts until the next top-40 list comes out. They’re last week before next week gets here. Hard hats build things that stand for years.
What’s it going to be?…Rock Stars or Hard Hats?
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That was three years ago – they stuck with “rock stars” for a while and, predictably, it wasn’t built to last.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
My favorite part of that video is still how absolutely horrified Backstrom looks riding in the car.
I think I made a GIF of that.
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by YvonLabresMoustache on Feb 28, 2012 8:35 AM EST up reply actions
0000
"Now fair's fair Henry. If I nail Hotlips and punch Hawkeye, can I go home too?
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Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Feb 28, 2012 8:37 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Unbearable to watch.
"He leaves every ounce of energy that he has on the ice and works very hard at it, and he wants to be the best and he wants to win, If you don’t follow that, you’ve got something wrong with you."
by nogoodtrying on Feb 28, 2012 8:40 AM EST up reply actions
The video or Theodore’s hair?
"Now fair's fair Henry. If I nail Hotlips and punch Hawkeye, can I go home too?
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Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Feb 28, 2012 9:58 AM EST up reply actions
Yes.
"He leaves every ounce of energy that he has on the ice and works very hard at it, and he wants to be the best and he wants to win, If you don’t follow that, you’ve got something wrong with you."
by nogoodtrying on Feb 28, 2012 10:12 AM EST up reply actions
From Rock Stars and Hard Hats to Handbags and Gladrags.
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by Bald Pollack on Feb 28, 2012 8:36 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Caps fans won’t be happy McPhee didn’t pull a deal, but in a few years, when Alzner is an All-Star and goalie Simeon Varlamov is winning 40 games for Washington, those same fans will be happy they weren’t dealt.
-shwedy
by shwedy on Mar 5, 2009 5:24 AM PST actions
Above is quoting Lebrun, I should note.
Interesting.
Patron saint of quality footwear.
LeBrun also praised them for standing pat this year.
Related: which extremely unlikely event is more likely – Alzner playing in an All-Star game or Varly winning 40 in a season?
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Alzner in the ASG.
Once you take the fisting element out, it's not romantic anymore.
by Steckel Me Elmo on Feb 28, 2012 9:32 AM EST up reply actions
Agree.
While he overstates the star level of the two players, Alzner did turn into a top pairing guy and Varly in a 1G in the NHL, so he was on the right track, anyway.
It really would have been a bummer to part with either for Derek Morris.
Patron saint of quality footwear.
I think Girardi’s appearance at the ASG this year gives a defense-first defenseman hope, but even Girardi’s offensive numbers crush Alzner’s. Barring funny business with the voting, I think I’d bet on Varly having one magical year.
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I think there’s still a bit of upside to Alzner’s offensive game. He’s likely never to get PP time, which will hurt, but if the Caps can improve on offense, he may pick up enough secondary assists to get into the conversation.
And I hold out hope that in a world where Wideman is an all star, Alzner can get sufficient recognition to make the game at some point.
by Dirk Dangler on Feb 28, 2012 9:51 AM EST up reply actions
I think this is Varly’s magical year with regard to his health, but his play has suffered.
So I’m figuring Alzner has his year where everything goes right in his future. Say he gets 10 goals and is +30 (or any big number) by the AS game, then I can see him getting in with McGuire et al shilling for him.
Patron saint of quality footwear.
I’m guessing he’ll get to ten goals in 2015 or so.
Wait, you meant 10 in one year? By mid-January of that year?
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I’m all for luck coming here and not to wherever Varly is.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
You’ll still end up being disappointed. Varly doesn’t need luck, just a full time goalie coach.
Please, call me F&B.
by Rob Parker on Feb 28, 2012 10:11 AM EST up reply actions 8 recs
And all Neuvy needs is a few starts in a row to find his rhythm.
And all Holtby needs is the confidence that comes with an NHL sweater/paycheck.
And all Grubauer needs is a chance.
People act like managing goalies is so tough…
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by J.P. on Feb 28, 2012 10:20 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
As soon as Varlamov stays healthy enough long enough on a team that’s good enough for him to become the 8th goalie to win 40 games in a single season since the lockout.
Once you take the fisting element out, it's not romantic anymore.
by Steckel Me Elmo on Feb 28, 2012 9:43 AM EST up reply actions
9th goalie*
(Brodeur, Bryzgalov, Fleury, Kiprusoff, Luongo, Miller, Nabokov, Turco)
Once you take the fisting element out, it's not romantic anymore.
by Steckel Me Elmo on Feb 28, 2012 9:45 AM EST up reply actions
Lundqvist could sneek in before Varly.
(Yes, I know about the avatar hounding - just pretend mine is invisible.)
Rinne might get in there this year. He has 35 wins. Howard, depending on how hard the Wings ride him (32). Fleury might make it again (32) because they ride him harder than a rented mule.
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They’re equally unlikely unless there are some serious changes in management in Denver.
Occasionally reporting from Section 421 of the Verizon Center...
by MikeL-Pivonka on Feb 28, 2012 9:46 AM EST up reply actions
Honestly though, hindsight being what it is, what if we HAD gone all in and mortgaged the future for Pronger? Is the enough of a boost that we beat Pittsburgh and maybe, just maybe, win the Cup? Of course, or the flip side, we wouldn’t have had Varly’s heroics.
Obviously there’s no way to answer that question, but I can’t help but wonder. I do recall thinking at the time it would have been an overpayment, but I’d have countered with Varly and a first to see if they went for it.
by Murshawursha on Feb 28, 2012 2:11 PM EST up reply actions
Cheap Tickets to Caps-Isles
Check out the Rink Rat Ticket Exchange if you want my 2 tickets to the Caps-Isles game tonight at well below STH cost.
Unleash the Apathy.
___
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by J.P. on Feb 28, 2012 7:57 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
What? The rink melted??
Occasionally reporting from Section 421 of the Verizon Center...
by MikeL-Pivonka on Feb 28, 2012 9:46 AM EST up reply actions
You couldn’t add even a little snark to say that you are boycotting the game tonight because the Caps didn’t make a move yesterday?
Nice guys finish first, but sometimes the season is awfully long.
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Meaningless cherry-picking or Measuring-stick Indicator?
I was curious how the Sharks would do on their 9-game roadie in light of their stop and pop at VC: 2-6-1, with the other victory at Toronto.
Jaromir Jagr is now 40. That's 280 in Jagr years.
by Acer Jonesy's Laughker on Feb 28, 2012 7:53 AM EST reply actions
Looking Ahead
The Caps have 11 home and 9 away games left.
The combined record of the teams left on the Caps schedule is 464-357-144.
17 of the 20 games are against teams from the East.
The only two EC teams they don’t play are the Sens and Pens.
The three WC teams they play are the Wings (A), Hawks(A), and Wild (H).
They play every team below them in the EC standings at least once.
They play the team directly ahead of them, the Jets, twice: 3/16 (A), 3/23 (H).
The Artist Formerly Known as CP2Devil.
Associate Editor at Five For Howling.
by Carl Putnam on Feb 28, 2012 8:22 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
So near perfect at home and better than they’ve been on the road gets them in with almost no margin for error.
Plan the 8th place banner raising!
Please, call me F&B.
You asked, I answered.
And I think that 95 gets them 3rd (and another SED banner), FWIW.
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And I think that 95 gets them 3rd (and another SED banner), FWIW.
Agree
"Shots aren't the important thing. Scoring chances are way more important than shots." - Bruce Boudreau
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Once you take the fisting element out, it's not romantic anymore.
by Steckel Me Elmo on Feb 28, 2012 9:25 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I think that record would allow some margin or error. However, I don’t see them going 10-1 at home.
The Artist Formerly Known as CP2Devil.
Associate Editor at Five For Howling.
Do you see them going 4-5 on the road either? It’s not out of the realm of possibility, but I don’t see it happening.
Once you take the fisting element out, it's not romantic anymore.
by Steckel Me Elmo on Feb 28, 2012 9:28 AM EST up reply actions
My best guess is 8-3 at home and 3-4-1 on the road. That would give them 90 points.
The Artist Formerly Known as CP2Devil.
Associate Editor at Five For Howling.
No kidding. Best case might be 3-6 on the road and 8-3 at home (maybe some OT/SO L’s thrown in there). That gets them to 89+ points.
Time to pick the deity of your choice and get busy praying…
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Science be praised!
Why so serious? Its just DC sports...
by LoveThatJoker on Feb 28, 2012 2:28 PM EST up reply actions
Agreed, though other than NJ on Friday and Philly on Sunday, their opponents are non-playoff teams, Minny and the Jets/Panthers. So, conceivable but agreed, not likely.
by Dirk Dangler on Feb 28, 2012 9:34 AM EST up reply actions
better than they’ve been on the road
Better than they have been against some tough opponents. Six of those nine away games are Bosx2, CHI, DET, PHI and NYR.
"Shots aren't the important thing. Scoring chances are way more important than shots." - Bruce Boudreau
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Right, and the other three are NYI, WPG, and TBL, against whom the Caps are 1-4 this year on the road.
by Twenty Seven Ninety on Feb 28, 2012 9:33 AM EST up reply actions
Right, I don’t even remotely think they will go 10-1, 4-5. I’m just saying that even if they do about as well as we can hope, they still aren’t in a great spot.
Please, call me F&B.
Eh, if they go 10-1/4-5, they’re in a pretty great spot.
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With a game in hand and 3 points up, I don’t think it’s unrealistic for FLA to still be able to top 95 points. Especially if teams let them play 60+ every single fucking night.
Please, call me F&B.
Maybe. But at 95, they’re in even if they don’t win the SED.
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I’m no math major, but shouldn’t you also be looking at what Winnipeg and Florida are facing in their schedule and what their likely point totals are going to be?
by morning skate on Feb 28, 2012 9:45 AM EST up reply actions
I’m no math major, but shouldn’t you also be looking at what Winnipeg and Florida are facing in their schedule and what their likely point totals are going to be?
I did right after All star break.
Chances of winning SE Div with points it took:
FLA Win SE Div 58.40% 96
WSH Win SE Div 32.30% 96
WPG Win SE Div 9.30% 94
"Shots aren't the important thing. Scoring chances are way more important than shots." - Bruce Boudreau
See my work in the Washington Post and on ESPN Insider.
Follow me on Twitter @ngreenberg
It’ll be interesting to see how many points are needed for 8th given the bleh nature of the teams chasing it. I think it’s conceivable that less than 90 gets it done.
by Dirk Dangler on Feb 28, 2012 9:46 AM EST up reply actions
Given the mediocrity of Washington, Winnipeg, Florida and Toronto, I think someone is going to get in with less than 90 points. Hell, I’m not convinced 7th place is out of reach for all the teams in that grouping, although they’d have to get into the low 90s to get there. One thing I know for sure, trying to predict who’s going to win games based on the other teams record is near impossible. I try and do it every year and fail miserably.
by morning skate on Feb 28, 2012 9:59 AM EST up reply actions
Well, says here that 89 points could get you in. Consider WPG’s loss last night and that probably bumps down to 88 points getting you in (personally, that sounds low to me).
That would mean 21 points, so… 9-8-3 as the absolute worst best record that could get them in?
(Again, I think it’ll take more than 88 points, but that’s based on one projection.)
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And likely a division title if they win all the games over Fla and Wpg.
Occasionally reporting from Section 421 of the Verizon Center...
by MikeL-Pivonka on Feb 28, 2012 9:47 AM EST up reply actions
Great quotes from Ray Whitney yesterday in an article about the Coyotes. Funny how they made me think more about the Caps than the Coyotes.
"This is it," Whitney said. "We’re not getting any more help."
But just so we’re clear, Whitney would like to clear up one misconception about this current group’s recent run of success.
"When you go unbeaten in 10 of 11, everybody says it’s the chemistry. If you lose 10 of 11 they (complain) about the chemistry," Whitney said. "This chemistry bull can go.
"I’d say it’s more hard work, execution and the guy in net (Mike Smith). That’s been the key, and that’s what’s going to carry us."
The Artist Formerly Known as CP2Devil.
Associate Editor at Five For Howling.
by Carl Putnam on Feb 28, 2012 8:58 AM EST reply actions 2 recs
Obviously chemistry is bull. It’s the identity that matters.
Please, call me F&B.
by Rob Parker on Feb 28, 2012 9:20 AM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Ha, yes it does.
Of course, without reading more of the article, I’d note that they did add Vermette, it just wasn’t technically on deadline day.
According to John Shannon from Sportsnet deals done before the actual deadline day don’t count.
The Artist Formerly Known as CP2Devil.
Associate Editor at Five For Howling.
Ha, thanks for confirming he’s someone I don’t need to follow on twitter.
by sk84fun_dc on Feb 28, 2012 9:32 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
John Shannon is atrocious as are most of the SportsNet hockey crew.
by Rather Bengt on Feb 28, 2012 9:55 AM EST up reply actions
Aucoin recalled. I guess he’s going to be here for the duration.
"The Caps fan doesn't say, 'is the glass half full' or 'is the glass half empty'. He wonders when the glass is going to spill."
Am I wrong or is there now a limit on how many non-injury replacement recalls can occur between now and the end of the season? Does this and Orlov’s recalls count against that limit?
Just trying to capture the spirit of the thing...
by dcsportsfan1 on Feb 28, 2012 9:08 AM EST up reply actions
Supposed to be four non-emergency recalls. I assume Orlov counts too.
"The Caps fan doesn't say, 'is the glass half full' or 'is the glass half empty'. He wonders when the glass is going to spill."
So they’ve burned two on day one? I guess that means no Rechlicz to help with the playoff push.
Just trying to capture the spirit of the thing...
by dcsportsfan1 on Feb 28, 2012 9:19 AM EST up reply actions
Speaking of Recker, welcome to teh Twitterz.
https://twitter.com/therecker19
You perhaps knew me better as "Your Nation's Capital." Same great commentary, now with 100% more transparency!
Aucoin will count, not sure how they can classify this one as emergency recall although I did wonder out loud about it this morning on twitter; my understanding is Orlov counts since the AHL CDR rule relates to be being on the roster as of 3pm yesterday; haven’t heard anything to contradict that plus the Jay Beagle situation last year indicates this is the case.
Last year the Caps chose to keep Beagle on the NHL roster on trade deadline day, which meant Beagle was not available to Hershey for the remainder of last season. At the time, there was a comment made about not wanting to use up one of the four non-emergency recalls.
As far as Aucoin, he’s played 8 NHL games since he last cleared waivers. if he plays in 10, he’ll have to clear waivers to be sent back down. The count towards the 30 days on the NHL roster is at less than 20 days at the moment.
A few notes about waivers post-deadline. If another team claims Aucoin the claiming team can’t play him during the regular season or the playoffs this season. The only thing claiming Aucoin and placing him on their NHL roster does is prevent the Caps and Bears from being able to play Aucoin (and technically would give the team negotiating rights this summer.) Aucoin is an UFA this summer so it’s not like a team would be claiming a player because they are under contract beyond this season. I am not saying I think he’d be claimed anyway, but these issues make it even less likely, unless it was done specifically to keep him from playing for the Caps/Bears. Also, the claiming team would have to keep him on their NHL roster.
If another team claims Aucoin the claiming team can’t play him during the regular season or the playoffs this season. The only thing claiming Aucoin and placing him on their NHL roster does is prevent the Caps and Bears from being able to play Aucoin (and technically would give the team negotiating rights this summer.)
Does that happen often (a claim in such a situation)? I’d imagine that it would be considered a rather ungentlemanly thing to do.
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No, no it does not for the reason given. Same issue on re-entry waivers, which is a situation seen more frequently than a player on regular waivers post-deadline. Can’t recall, but I think a waiver claim may have happened in this situation once or twice over many years, but it was for a player under contract beyond the current season.
Strategically, it makes more sense to risk a player on waivers or re-entry waivers post trade deadline if your hope is that the player clears. See Caps and Collins and Laing in past seasons.
OT: Have to dig up the case, but there was a player either traded or claimed on waivers post trade deadline either from or to Calgary at one point (I think pre lockout) where the player was the one who ended up being punished by this situation since in effect he wasn’t able to play anymore that season.
HF should be careful out on the limb, calling Alzner the jewel of the Caps’ 2007 draft.
Once you take the fisting element out, it's not romantic anymore.
by Steckel Me Elmo on Feb 28, 2012 9:07 AM EST reply actions
Pretty sure Theo Ruth’s mom would even agree with that.
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Alzner was the obvious pick and at the Caps draft event (when they unveiled the nifty new team colors and threads) there was a pretty nice cheer at Kettler.
Occasionally reporting from Section 421 of the Verizon Center...
by MikeL-Pivonka on Feb 28, 2012 9:49 AM EST up reply actions
LA King fans I’m sure would agree. It’s got to be brutal looking at Thomas Hickey who still hasn’t played a game in the NHL and realizing you could have had Alzner.
by morning skate on Feb 28, 2012 10:19 AM EST up reply actions
I know we have talked about the use of fancy stats in the NHL. Here is a little nugget from the LAK conf call re: acquiring Jeff Carter:
Question: How much did Richards and Carter actually play together in Philly?
LOMBARDI: "You’ve got all these computer guys who can tell you how much they played together. Trust me, we looked at all that."
"Shots aren't the important thing. Scoring chances are way more important than shots." - Bruce Boudreau
See my work in the Washington Post and on ESPN Insider.
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I was told by a Flyers fan/hockey writer friend that they didn’t actually play on a line together very much in Philly.
But as the man says, there are computer guys for that.
Yea, they didn’t play that much together at 5v5 but they did play on the PP together last season (~30% of TOI).
"Shots aren't the important thing. Scoring chances are way more important than shots." - Bruce Boudreau
See my work in the Washington Post and on ESPN Insider.
Follow me on Twitter @ngreenberg
With the Nash trade particulars out there, it reminded me of the two Eric Lindros offers that the Nordiques got from the Rangers and Flyers (eventually settled by an arbitrator). They were:
Flyers: Peter Forsberg, Ron Hextall, Chris Simon, Mike Ricci, Kerry Huffman, Steve Duchesne, 2 firsts (’93 and ’94) and $12 million
Rangers: Doug Weight, Tony Amonte, Alexei Kovalev, John Vanbeisbrouk, 3 firsts (’93, ’94, and ’95) and $15 million
For one player. That was just unbelievable.
insane. absolutely insane.
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Remind me which two of the three franchises involved there won a Cup within five years of that being settled.
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The one that was saved from itself and the one that got half a team’s worth of players.
Please, call me F&B.
And then that 1994 pick became a piece of this deal:
1994-Jun-28 Draft pick rights traded from Quebec Nordiques with Garth Butcher, Mats Sundin and Todd Warriner to Toronto Maple Leafs for Wendel Clark, Sylvain Lefebvre, Landon Wilson and round 1 pick in the 1994 draft (Jeff Kealty)
That draft pick is Nolan Baumgartner. I’m still trying to piece together how the pick ended up in DC.
"Now fair's fair Henry. If I nail Hotlips and punch Hawkeye, can I go home too?
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Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Feb 28, 2012 10:30 AM EST up reply actions
Nordiques
Traded Eric Lindros to Flyers for Ron Hextall, Peter Forsberg, Steve Duchesne, Kerry Huffman, Mike Ricci, 1993 first round pick (#10-Jocelyn Thibault), future considerations (Chris Simon, 1994 first round pick (#10-Nolan Baumgartner) on 07-21), $15M cash on 1992-06-30Maple Leafs
Traded Wendel Clark, Sylvain Lefebvre, Landon Wilson, 1994 first round pick (#22-Jeff Kealty) to Nordiques for Mats Sundin, Garth Butcher, Todd Warriner, 1994 first round pick (#10-Nolan Baumgartner) on 1994-06-28Capitals
Traded Mike Ridley, 1994 first round pick (#16-Eric Fichaud) to Maple Leafs for Rob Pearson, 1994 first round pick (#10-Nolan Baumgartner) on 1994-06-28
By the way, I will now waste the rest of the day on that site. Holy mackerel.
"Now fair's fair Henry. If I nail Hotlips and punch Hawkeye, can I go home too?
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Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Feb 28, 2012 10:35 AM EST up reply actions
The Capitals ended up with that 16 pick (Fichaud) through the Scott Stevens Trade.
"Now fair's fair Henry. If I nail Hotlips and punch Hawkeye, can I go home too?
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Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Feb 28, 2012 10:36 AM EST up reply actions
How come we never see super awesome blockbuster trades like those anymore?
by Murshawursha on Feb 28, 2012 2:20 PM EST up reply actions
Because everyone is so stacked up together. Few teams are really terrible enough to gut everything, and most are in the good to mediocre range. And that was pre-Salary Cap as well.
"Now fair's fair Henry. If I nail Hotlips and punch Hawkeye, can I go home too?
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Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Feb 28, 2012 2:44 PM EST up reply actions
because back then, if your own had deep pockets, you could just buy up the talent. You want Brendan Shanahan? Go get him. You want Brett Hull? Go get him too. Oh, and Luc Robitaille? Yep, we got cash for that. And you can keep the players you drafted! Just sign them to some nice big contracts.
The salary cap has turned the entire league into a draft-and-develop operation. You can no longer just buy a team, or trade for a team.
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by ThePeerless on Feb 28, 2012 10:33 AM EST up reply actions
Also, the Rangers turned around and traded away Amonte and Weight in their run up to the Cup win in ’93.
Rangers won a Cup in 1993? really?
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The one that also had to relocate in order to get the goaltender they needed to finish the deal… no way the Habs trade Roy to the Nordiques.
Occasionally reporting from Section 421 of the Verizon Center...
by MikeL-Pivonka on Feb 28, 2012 11:42 AM EST up reply actions
In their defense, the Flyers did make it to a Finals with Lindros and lost in the conference finals twice.
The trade did not really damage the Flyers franchise.
Really? That’s an interesting spin. It’s obviously impossible to prove a negative, but if you consider 0 SCF finals game won as a success I guess it worked out just fine for PHI. Would you argue they couldn’t have had just as much success if they kept all the players they sent to COL? I think that’s a tough sell.
Please, call me F&B.
Well, you gotta remember at the time how much hype was around Lindros. People thought he was going to be the Next Giant Thing.
"Now fair's fair Henry. If I nail Hotlips and punch Hawkeye, can I go home too?
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by YvonLabresMoustache on Feb 28, 2012 10:23 AM EST up reply actions
He was an amazing player. He just didn’t know how to control being beaten up so much and it cost him.
And I hated him so, so much.
Lindros was able to play for 13 seasons. Beginning to wonder if the newer “Next One” is going to match that.
"You can want to get to April but when you get to April you may not like the answers you get, so you might as well enjoy the ride while it's going on." - Brian McNally on JRR, 8/29/2011
I hope so. I really do.
But if he legit can’t play any more, I hope he’s sensible enough to get out while he’s still in charge of his mental faculties.
"Now fair's fair Henry. If I nail Hotlips and punch Hawkeye, can I go home too?
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Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Feb 28, 2012 11:26 AM EST up reply actions
Well, he’s only got one more year on his current contract. Got to think Shero isn’t going to renew it if he’s still out the end of next season.
"You can want to get to April but when you get to April you may not like the answers you get, so you might as well enjoy the ride while it's going on." - Brian McNally on JRR, 8/29/2011
I would think if he still hasn’t played by next season, he’s probably going to retire, or at least just walk away for a few years.
"Now fair's fair Henry. If I nail Hotlips and punch Hawkeye, can I go home too?
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Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Feb 28, 2012 11:31 AM EST up reply actions
Lindros was a great player when he came into the league. His problem was that he was not as durable as the physical game he played. The first hint should have been how his brother Brett had to retire after a very brief career due to concussions.
When Lindros was playing and healthy he could dominate a game.
Occasionally reporting from Section 421 of the Verizon Center...
by MikeL-Pivonka on Feb 28, 2012 11:44 AM EST up reply actions
Anyone else still checking regularly to see if the Caps pull off a trade? It’s just stuck in my head for some reason……..
by CapsDegenerate on Feb 28, 2012 10:25 AM EST reply actions
I heard Ovechkin and Semin weren’t on the ice this morning. Must be something big brewin’.
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I think I know what it is.
"My favorite fan base in D.C. is United's. Period. The end." - Steinberg
Fair deal on a lease? Apparently accomplished, though the mission is not complete. Let's Keep United in DC and realize the dream of a stadium with local investment and incentives to US Soccer's greatest club franchise.
by Bald Pollack on Feb 28, 2012 10:30 AM EST up reply actions
Penner rejoices.
Once you take the fisting element out, it's not romantic anymore.
by Steckel Me Elmo on Feb 28, 2012 11:04 AM EST up reply actions
Forget it Jake, it’s Chinatown.
"My favorite fan base in D.C. is United's. Period. The end." - Steinberg
Fair deal on a lease? Apparently accomplished, though the mission is not complete. Let's Keep United in DC and realize the dream of a stadium with local investment and incentives to US Soccer's greatest club franchise.
by Bald Pollack on Feb 28, 2012 10:27 AM EST up reply actions
Louis Black: “BRING ME SOME GD PANCAKES”……………….If GMGM pull off a trade after the deadline I think he should get GM of the year.
by CapsDegenerate on Feb 28, 2012 12:14 PM EST up reply actions
___
My reaction to yesterday? So, it has come to this…
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
by J.P. on Feb 28, 2012 10:29 AM EST reply actions 7 recs
Reminds me I need to order cat food for our special needs cat… Thanks!
Occasionally reporting from Section 421 of the Verizon Center...
by MikeL-Pivonka on Feb 28, 2012 11:46 AM EST up reply actions
Reminds me I need to make dinner for my mother-in-law.
Just trying to capture the spirit of the thing...
by dcsportsfan1 on Feb 28, 2012 11:52 AM EST up reply actions
You feed cat food to your mother in law?
Occasionally reporting from Section 421 of the Verizon Center...
by MikeL-Pivonka on Feb 28, 2012 2:09 PM EST up reply actions
You dont?
Just trying to capture the spirit of the thing...
by dcsportsfan1 on Feb 28, 2012 3:24 PM EST up reply actions
That Sheba shit is expensive. She gets dry food.
"Now fair's fair Henry. If I nail Hotlips and punch Hawkeye, can I go home too?
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Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Feb 28, 2012 3:25 PM EST up reply actions
Good tip. I will consider that.
Just trying to capture the spirit of the thing...
by dcsportsfan1 on Feb 28, 2012 3:28 PM EST up reply actions
FLA or TOR
Who do we root for tonight? I’ll go with FLA. Get some breathing room near eighth place and then chase down FLA later
I don’t think the Caps stand much chance of advancing anywhere in the playoffs unless they get the #3 seed, so I’m rooting against FLA.
Toronto.
"Now fair's fair Henry. If I nail Hotlips and punch Hawkeye, can I go home too?
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Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Feb 28, 2012 11:26 AM EST up reply actions
George McPhee’s Facebook Wall.
Great work done over at RMNB.
Once you take the fisting element out, it's not romantic anymore.
by Steckel Me Elmo on Feb 28, 2012 11:06 AM EST reply actions
Great work… albeit derivative.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery … so they say.
Once you take the fisting element out, it's not romantic anymore.
by Steckel Me Elmo on Feb 28, 2012 11:11 AM EST up reply actions
this was my favorite part of that one
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30 Thoughts. 27 & 28 regard the Caps, and there’s all sorts of trade goodies. And Nash stuff. 8 coachs, 65 games under .500? Yikes.
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Interesting.
One GM thought San Jose could’ve closed a Nash trade if it still had Charlie Coyle, who was traded to Minnesota in the Brent Burns deal. “That guy is a stud,” he said.
"Now fair's fair Henry. If I nail Hotlips and punch Hawkeye, can I go home too?
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Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Feb 28, 2012 11:33 AM EST up reply actions
28 is not particularly encouraging. Though it isn’t really anything earth shattering.
28. McPhee had an interesting line about his players: “The same guys who played hard for Bruce [Boudreau] are playing hard for Dale [Hunter].”
Once you take the fisting element out, it's not romantic anymore.
by Steckel Me Elmo on Feb 28, 2012 11:36 AM EST up reply actions
it’s remarkably blunt for GMGM.
Pledge Drive 2011-2012: CARSON KOLZIG FOUNDATION! Season Pledge total--$1328.52!
McPhee had an interesting line about his players: “The same guys who played hard for Bruce [Boudreau] are playing hard for Dale [Hunter].”
Ouch. Very ouch.
Unleash the Apathy.
Hey, maybe that’s out of context and snips the following sentence: “And the really encouraging thing is that the guys who didn’t play hard for Bruce are busting their asses now for Dale!”
Ahem.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
Some line combos for tonight. Nabby in goal.
NYIslanders @NYIslanders
Nielsen will center Ullstrom and Bailey, Cizikas will center Grabner and Okposo. Martin will be with Reasoner and Pandolfo. #Isles
You perhaps knew me better as "Your Nation's Capital." Same great commentary, now with 100% more transparency!
Sounds like they’ve brought up a lot of kids. Gotta beat the teams that have punted on the season.
"Now fair's fair Henry. If I nail Hotlips and punch Hawkeye, can I go home too?
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Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Feb 28, 2012 11:40 AM EST up reply actions
I’d feel better if they brought up a kid goalie.
by morning skate on Feb 28, 2012 11:46 AM EST up reply actions
I’m guessing we don’t know who’s in net yet?
That'll make your weagle wink!
"You're the boss, apple sauce" - @GreenLife52
Looks like Nabby
Stephen Whyno @SWhyno Reply Retweet Favorite · Open
#Isles’ Capuano said Nabokov starts in goal at #Caps
by morning skate on Feb 28, 2012 11:52 AM EST up reply actions
That’s…good?
"He leaves every ounce of energy that he has on the ice and works very hard at it, and he wants to be the best and he wants to win, If you don’t follow that, you’ve got something wrong with you."
by nogoodtrying on Feb 28, 2012 11:55 AM EST up reply actions
And yet somehow Dale Hunter thinks the Caps need the added edge of not revealing who our goaltender is until just before game time. The Isles have scored the fewest goals in the Eastern Conference but somehow not saying who’s in net will be the difference.
Just trying to capture the spirit of the thing...
by dcsportsfan1 on Feb 28, 2012 11:56 AM EST up reply actions
Yes, but...
Three, yes three Fishsticks are outscoring Ovechkin: Tavares, Parentau, and Moulson (wish he was a Cap).
How is that fucking possible?
by S h a g g y on Feb 28, 2012 12:05 PM EST up reply actions
effort.
Be Utterly Facinating @ http://www.thirstdc.com
by TheFuryUnleashed on Feb 28, 2012 12:08 PM EST up reply actions
Isles have beaten the Caps twice this season, by a combined 8 to 3. Vokoun played both games. Neuvy has the hot hand right now.
I’m jumping around a bith with the logic, but I think Neuvy goes tonight.
Regardless, I agree, generating offense will be the issue as the Caps got blanked by Nabby last time……
by CapsDegenerate on Feb 28, 2012 12:11 PM EST up reply actions
Steroids! (Just in my mind.)
....when the truth is if they knew anything about the game, they'd be in it.
--GMGM
by redlineblue on Feb 28, 2012 12:30 PM EST up reply actions
Jean Believeau is in the hospital. Suffered a stroke.
Dave Stubbs (via Whyno)
Prayers to #Habs icon Jean Béliveau, hospitalized after having suffered a stroke
"Now fair's fair Henry. If I nail Hotlips and punch Hawkeye, can I go home too?
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Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Feb 28, 2012 11:59 AM EST reply actions
Best wishes to Le Gros Bill and his family… hopefully it’s minor (but he is 80 years old…)
Occasionally reporting from Section 421 of the Verizon Center...
by MikeL-Pivonka on Feb 28, 2012 2:12 PM EST up reply actions
Transcript of a Rick Nash press conference from this morning (with Pahlsson’s name typed “Paulson” so hopefully the rest is accurate)
Read like prepared answers as one would expect, but still worth a read, IMO
Nash handled that well. I think the media want to throw bombs just to create controversy. I would not characterize Nash as having a shitty, me-first attitude, that’s for sure. He’s a good, sometimes a great player.
Howson blew a golden opportunity to take a player whose reputation drastically outsized his production/ability to win a Cup in CLB and ultimately, rebuild in a balanced fashion. Nash doesn’t need to account for Howson’s dumbassery, and any fans who boo him are IMO misled.
by S h a g g y on Feb 28, 2012 12:13 PM EST up reply actions
Knuble and Hamrlik scratched again according to Sir Chuck of Gormley.
"Now fair's fair Henry. If I nail Hotlips and punch Hawkeye, can I go home too?
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Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Feb 28, 2012 12:11 PM EST reply actions
Both veterans voiced their displeasure over the reasoning coach Dale Hunter gave for tasking them out of the lineup and the lines of communication were not exactly flowing freely on Tuesday.
"I just told them they’re not playing tonight and get ready to play (in the future)," Hunter said. "You never know when you’re going to get in.
"They’re professionals. It’s like Schultzie. He was scratched how many games? Twelve in a row? Now what is he doing?"
Schultz was scratched 18 of 20 games from Dec. 9 through Jan. 31 and has played in 10 of the last 11 games.
"He didn’t say anything," Hunter said. "He just went out, worked hard in practice. It proves a point."
"When you do get in and you play well like Schultzie has, he deserves to be in the lineup. That’s what bumps out another guy. If Hammer or Noobs get in, they’ll bump out a guy. That’s the way it is."
"Now fair's fair Henry. If I nail Hotlips and punch Hawkeye, can I go home too?
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Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Feb 28, 2012 12:13 PM EST up reply actions
Caps, for the first time I can recall, told media that the scratches wouldn’t be made available to talk. Interesting.
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I always assumed that was the player’s option and not the team telling them what to do.
Just trying to capture the spirit of the thing...
by dcsportsfan1 on Feb 28, 2012 12:41 PM EST up reply actions
It looks like there’s a communication breakdown. Seems like it’s always the same with this team.
"Now fair's fair Henry. If I nail Hotlips and punch Hawkeye, can I go home too?
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Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Feb 28, 2012 12:48 PM EST up reply actions
Hard to see Schultz bumping Hamr out when 8D are being carried as directly analogous to Knuble being bumped out by a career AAAA player who has to be called up and down constantly to preserve waiver days.
by Twenty Seven Ninety on Feb 28, 2012 12:25 PM EST up reply actions
Both are playing more inspired hockey right now?
"He leaves every ounce of energy that he has on the ice and works very hard at it, and he wants to be the best and he wants to win, If you don’t follow that, you’ve got something wrong with you."
by nogoodtrying on Feb 28, 2012 12:40 PM EST up reply actions
Schultz: model citizen.
Much respect.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
No wonder they had a Canadian kid reading the American Declaration of Independence.
Comrades, leave me here a little, while as yet 't is early morn:
Leave me here, and when you want me, sound upon the bugle-horn
First of all, Schultz apparantly never says anything, so there’s that. Also, Schultz is a 26 year old defensemen who’s NHL future (and paycheck) beyond the next two years is still up in the air. Probably best to keep your head down and work hard in that situation.
Knubs and Hamr are two decade veteran’s who can afford be a little mouthy because they’ve got resumes which will outweigh any perceived problems that squaking will cause. I’ve not heard that either of them are not playing hard in practice.
Just trying to capture the spirit of the thing...
by dcsportsfan1 on Feb 28, 2012 1:29 PM EST up reply actions
I think it is less the resume issue for MK22 and RH44 and the fact that at their age, they do not have as much hockey left. They can see the end from where they are. And, especially in MK22’s case, he is a player who probably has a more comfortable relationship with the media than Schultz, whose demeanor does not seem to make him and easy or ready quote. That said, it seems to be it just isn’t in Schultz’ nature to rock the boat. What he is on the ice — not an excitable sort — might be what he is like off the ice.
If you've read this far...seek help.
Why did Gormley tweet that like 12389039039 times??? I need to go ahead and unfollow him. What a waste.
"He leaves every ounce of energy that he has on the ice and works very hard at it, and he wants to be the best and he wants to win, If you don’t follow that, you’ve got something wrong with you."
by nogoodtrying on Feb 28, 2012 12:16 PM EST up reply actions
I don’t think he’s mastered the art of putting two links in the same tweet, even though he doesn’t need to use two different links because they both go to the same place. He puts it out with the URL short’ner and then without.
I’ll never say an unkind word about him. Man’s a joy.
"Now fair's fair Henry. If I nail Hotlips and punch Hawkeye, can I go home too?
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Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Feb 28, 2012 12:22 PM EST up reply actions
The Whynocerous:
Officially, #Caps’ goalie vs. #NYI is “game time” call, Hunter said. Gotta be Neuvirth, though, right?
"Now fair's fair Henry. If I nail Hotlips and punch Hawkeye, can I go home too?
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Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Feb 28, 2012 12:26 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Rec’d for Whyno’s new nickname… love it!
Occasionally reporting from Section 421 of the Verizon Center...
by MikeL-Pivonka on Feb 28, 2012 2:14 PM EST up reply actions
New content on Ye Olde Fronte Page.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
SBN Headline
By Calling Out Rick Nash, Scott Howson May Have Written Own Ticket Out Of Columbus
So I guess totally sucking at his job wasn’t enough to do it.
Unleash the Apathy.
It clearly was not. The Columbus rebuild doesn’t start with trading Nash or drafting Yakupov. It starts with firing Howson.
Once you take the fisting element out, it's not romantic anymore.
by Steckel Me Elmo on Feb 28, 2012 1:20 PM EST up reply actions
Mentioned it yesterday on the OT: Would people be so forgiving to the player wanting out of a losing team if that player had been named Ovechkin?
"You can want to get to April but when you get to April you may not like the answers you get, so you might as well enjoy the ride while it's going on." - Brian McNally on JRR, 8/29/2011
I think you have to wait a few more years to make that a comparable. At at least the Caps have won a playoff series since he’s been here.
"The Caps fan doesn't say, 'is the glass half full' or 'is the glass half empty'. He wonders when the glass is going to spill."
Not really comparing the teams but how the players are perceived. I understand Howson has been stupid in his dealings, but you have to figure one of the reasons Nash got his huge contract was because he was being financially compensated for sticking with a bad team. And now he wants out, yet he’s still limited which teams he will consider. Sounds a bit selfish to me, yet all I’ve seen from the media is how dare Howson reveal the truth about who asked for what. Has anyone called him out for Columbus’ failings, called him uncoachable or worse, a coach killer?
"You can want to get to April but when you get to April you may not like the answers you get, so you might as well enjoy the ride while it's going on." - Brian McNally on JRR, 8/29/2011
People are giving him credit for sticking in that prison for as long as he did. And he also did frame his trade request in the idea of wanting to help the rebuild, thinking that the assets they got in return for him could be a good jump start to that.
Once you take the fisting element out, it's not romantic anymore.
by Steckel Me Elmo on Feb 28, 2012 1:37 PM EST up reply actions
That’s just good PR. The type that maybe his agent should have been using over the weekend, instead of the “you’d better trade him now” threat he was using.
I do think he is entitled to some goodwill for signing that contract in the first place.
"The Caps fan doesn't say, 'is the glass half full' or 'is the glass half empty'. He wonders when the glass is going to spill."
Yeah, I left out the latter part of what I was going to say. His comments are definitely self-serving. But he is right that it is best for everyone involved (except maybe the team trading for Nash).
Once you take the fisting element out, it's not romantic anymore.
by Steckel Me Elmo on Feb 28, 2012 1:46 PM EST up reply actions
A decade with the team. 8 coaches (JESUS! coach killer much?). Zero playoff wins and only 1 playoff appearance. Honestly, I’m shocked he lasted this long.
Pledge Drive 2011-2012: CARSON KOLZIG FOUNDATION! Season Pledge total--$1328.52!
Wonder how GMGM feels about Columbus?
Just trying to capture the spirit of the thing...
by dcsportsfan1 on Feb 28, 2012 1:31 PM EST up reply actions
With this whole Nash debacle, is he really worth it all? He’s been a PPG player only twice in his career, albeit on a bad team. Putting him on a contender would definitely make his point total rise, but it’s still not a guarantee. He has a 7.8 million cap hit through 2018, which is incredibly high because Columbus needed to give him that amount in order to keep him there long term. I don’t see how a team, especially one in contention, would cripple their team long term and possibly at the moment to acquire him for what the rumored packages were. When a team tries to trade a superstar, it’s near impossible to get back equal talent.
I think Howson punched his own ticket with the Carter trade, not so much everything that’s happened with Nash. If anything, Nash has made Howson’s job more difficult because he’s asked for a trade, but can ultimately decide where he does and doesn’t want to go due to his NTC. If possible, I think Columbus is better suited to fire the coach and GM, try to get Nash to commit one more time to the team, and rebuild their franchise with Nash, not without him.
I did a quick scan to compare the productivity of Nash vs Semin since the 2006-2007 season. Since then (and assuming my math is correct), Nash scored 191 goals since then and had a total of 381 points. Semin scored 183 goals and had a total of 373 points. Nash would get top line minutes for a bad team. Sasha generally would get 2nd line minutes and occasional first line minutes.
In doing a salary comparison, Nash sounds like he’s more overpaid than Semin (and people have complained about how badly overpaid Semin is.) For Nash, it’s even worse. Granted, if we were comparing their whole body of work over an entire career, Nash would rate ahead of Semin, as he could step right into Columbus’s lineup and produce so had a head start in producing goals at the NHL level (2002-2003). Semin didn’t really bloom as a really productive player until 1 year post lockout (as he spent that extra year in Russia post lockout.)
Rocking the Red for teams on the banks of the Potomac and at the Gateway Arch and Singing the Blues about Hockey.
I don't get it...
From Friedman’s 30 Thoughts
27. Washington Capitals GM George McPhee’s decision not to make rental moves at the deadline makes it obvious he doesn’t see a winning hand. Three non-Ovechkin reasons: Washington dropped from fourth to 19th (so far) in goals against; Mike Green still looks sore after missing 47 games; and Nicklas Backstrom remains out with a concussion. One has got to think McPhee lacks optimism on the possibility of Backstrom’s return.
This seems to beg the question of why the Caps weren’t sellers on trade deadline day then. They had five tradeable UFAs (Vokoun, Wideman, Semin, Knuble, and Halpern) and a salary dump (Hamrlik) available. Even if you couldn’t get a legit 2C yesterday, you could have stockpiled picks and prospects as trade assets over the summer when one might be more available. Now you are looking at giving up roster players and limited picks AND having to address the holes in the lineup with the loss of the FAs. Seems like stupid asset management to me.
The one I really don’t like GMGM failing to trade is RomHam. Allegedly there was a lot of interest in him (at least from Chicago) and the Caps had a chance to give themselves $3.5MM more for next season.
Once you take the fisting element out, it's not romantic anymore.
by Steckel Me Elmo on Feb 28, 2012 1:39 PM EST up reply actions
I don’t have a problem moving Hamrlik if there is a chance Hunter won’t be back (and if the season continues the way it has been, with ups and downs like riding the Vomit Comet, then Hunter won’t be back). That seems to be an issue between them, not between Hamrlik and the Caps organization.
Occasionally reporting from Section 421 of the Verizon Center...
by MikeL-Pivonka on Feb 28, 2012 2:16 PM EST up reply actions
I don’t particularly want Hamrlik on the roster regardless of the coach. I think that $3.5MM price tag on him is a pretty bad K. But not so bad that it can’t be moved.
Once you take the fisting element out, it's not romantic anymore.
by Steckel Me Elmo on Feb 28, 2012 2:22 PM EST up reply actions
I didn’t like the signing when it happened, and I like it even less now. I still have no idea why GMGM brought him in.
Pledge Drive 2011-2012: CARSON KOLZIG FOUNDATION! Season Pledge total--$1328.52!
I was fine with the signing at the right price; I thought Hamrlik could still be a useful player. But GMGM definitely overpaid.
Same thing happened with Ward – good signing in a vacuum. But it doesn’t happen in a vacuum and the K is a bad one.
Once you take the fisting element out, it's not romantic anymore.
by Steckel Me Elmo on Feb 28, 2012 2:29 PM EST up reply actions
Same reason as Ward. Playoff performer. He wasn’t banking on needing them to be great just to make the playoffs.
Just trying to capture the spirit of the thing...
by dcsportsfan1 on Feb 28, 2012 3:30 PM EST up reply actions
It’s all kind of valid.
Everything ends badly...otherwise it wouldn't end.
by Davethecapsfan on Feb 28, 2012 1:43 PM EST up reply actions
I should clarify that I mean IF you are of the mind at best this team can just squeak into the playoffs with little to no chance of going anywhere…then it’s valid.
Everything ends badly...otherwise it wouldn't end.
by Davethecapsfan on Feb 28, 2012 1:57 PM EST up reply actions
Because you can never entirely divorce a “hockey” decision from a “business” decision, and the fact is that the Caps are still in the playoff mix, probably depend on playoff income for their revenue models, and have to renew tickets. You cannot say, “that’s a wrap” on the season with 20 games left and that dynamic.
As for Friedman’s conclusion, I think he is right to a point. If nothing else changes, or even if the Caps front office has concluded that Backstrom isn’t coming back this season, then he’s probably right. But McPhee has given his club an odd chance. The same “support” mix is in place as was the case before Green’s surgery and Backstrom’s concussion. If Green returns to form in the last 20 games, and if Backstrom miraculously heals, he has a team in place. He’s gone all in on his own roster architecture implemented last summer. He could be staking his own job on it.
If you've read this far...seek help.
But there is a middle road…one that hedges your bets much more, and that was to move SOME of the UFAs. Some combo of two or three of the five…GMGM gets to pick from all available options. I get the sense from hearing his press conference that he was exclusively looking to buy in this market (with the exception of maybe dumping Hamrlik). This was a huge mistake if the Caps don’t make the playoffs (pretty likely IMO) or get bounced really fast. At a minimum, I would have expected some combination of a first, a second, a low round pick, and/or some mid-level prospects for Wideman and Knuble.
Right or wrong, I don’t think McPhee sees this as a losing hand. I think he wanted to trade for some help but stuck to his “I’m not going to pay a lot for this muffler” mantra.
Me, i would have moved Wideman and Knuble at a minimum.
It isn’t even anger-inducing. It does not seem to be worth that kind of emotional investment. It might not even be disappointing any more. It is expected.
-Peerless 5.6.2011
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