Sunday Caps Clips: Two Points in T.O.
by J.P. on Feb 26, 2012 8:28 AM EST
in Caps Clips
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Your savory breakfast links:
- Recaps and other assorted musings on last night's win from us, Caps365 video (Hunter, Caps players), Vogs, Capitals Voice, NHL.com, WaPo (gamer, blog), WashTimes (gamer), CSNW (blog), SB Nation DC, Frankovic, Peerless, RMNB, DSP, RtR and hockey hourly.
- Not two weeks ago the Caps recalled Braden Holtby rather than give Michal Neuvirth both starts in a back-to-back set. But this weekend, and with a healthy Tomas Vokoun, the cage was all Neuvy's... [WaPo, WashTimes]
- ... and here's a little bit of what he did with it. [RMNB]
- Does that mean he's "The Guy" for now? [WashTimes]
- The power play has been going through a rough stretch of (not so) late. [Dump 'n Chase]
- With the trade deadline just over a day away, are the Caps looking to acquire... two brooms and a mop in the final weeks of the season? [National Post]
- HFBoards called - it wants its trade proposal generator back. [CSNW]
- Alex Ovechkin 's struggles continue to fuel a cottage industry of Canadian writers. [G&M]
- Still searching for answers as to why the season went sideways? Blame Twitter? [Mr. Irrelevant]
- Chalk up another loss for the Bears. [Patriot-News]
- The latest on Evgeny Kuznetsov and his injury. [RMNB, SB Nation DC]
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Maybe we can just trade Gormley?
"Everything in excess... moderation is for monks"--Robert A. Heinlein
"Facts are meaningless, they can be used to prove anything"--Homer Simpson
by SpeedRacer on Feb 26, 2012 9:01 AM EST reply actions 9 recs
That has to be about the dumbest idea in the history of earth. There is a combination of players one might trade for Ovechkin, but Nash? He’s a nice player. He is also — as many goal scorers who came before him — in decline. From 40 to 33 to 32 to a pace for 27 (Ovechkin has 25 now). Trading Ovechkin is, perhaps, a debate worth having. Ovechkin-for-Nash is not.
If you've read this far...seek help.
That has to be about the dumbest idea in the history of earth.
Disagree. You are trading a very bad contract (Nash) for one that is simply terrible (Ovechkin). Even if the salary cap rises in subsequent years, it is hard to fathom a scenario where it gets to the point that $9.5×10 is not a killer.
Over the next 6yrs (life of Nash deal), I am not so sure their on-ice production will be that much different. At least not $2+million worth different.
I am not saying I would make the trade, mostly due to all the off-ice contributions Ovechkin brings to the table, but I don’t think it is out-right laughable.
"Shots aren't the important thing. Scoring chances are way more important than shots." - Bruce Boudreau
See my work in the Washington Post and on ESPN Insider.
Follow me on Twitter @ngreenberg
It’s a video game or message board trade, completely divorced from the associated externalities and realities.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
by J.P. on Feb 26, 2012 9:59 AM EST via iPhone app up reply actions
Don’t disagree, but if the opportunity presented itself I wouldn’t call it “the dumbest idea in the history of earth.”
"Shots aren't the important thing. Scoring chances are way more important than shots." - Bruce Boudreau
See my work in the Washington Post and on ESPN Insider.
Follow me on Twitter @ngreenberg
Seeing what Howson has done recently, maybe you could net Ryan Johansen coming back the other way, too.
Red Line Station and @RedArmyLine, featuring coverage of the most frustrating team in the NHL
I believe in next year.
by red army line on Feb 26, 2012 10:41 AM EST up reply actions
… which would guarantee at least one “no relation” per game.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
by J.P. on Feb 26, 2012 10:46 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I’ll take the over.
"Everything in excess... moderation is for monks"--Robert A. Heinlein
"Facts are meaningless, they can be used to prove anything"--Homer Simpson
by SpeedRacer on Feb 26, 2012 12:17 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
It is a potential trade that has zero, absolutely positively no frigging hope in hell, chance of transpiring.
Gormley’s gonna get hair on his palms if he keeps this up.
Patron saint of quality footwear.
Gormley’s gonna get hair on his palms if he keeps this up.
Who says he doesn’t already?
Nice guys finish first, but sometimes the season is awfully long.
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Dude IS pretty creepy on the tv.
"Everything in excess... moderation is for monks"--Robert A. Heinlein
"Facts are meaningless, they can be used to prove anything"--Homer Simpson
That’s enough – let’s try to keep our criticisms relatively substantive.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
Roger dat, so I’ll try. He looked uncomfortable on camera at first and seems little, if any, better now (cf. Alan May). His posts seem designed to troll for page hits as much as offer anything of value to the Caps community. As an “insider”, he doesn’t add anything for me. And I’m sorry, I meant no personal attack.
"Everything in excess... moderation is for monks"--Robert A. Heinlein
"Facts are meaningless, they can be used to prove anything"--Homer Simpson
It’s cool. I’ve got no problem with criticizing how folks do their jobs and whatnot, but that’s where it should end.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
That’s the expense side. The income side presents a significant problem, at least in the short term. Doing the back of the envelope arithmetic, $2M translates to about 700 season tickets at average prices for pre-March 15 renewal. That works out to the need for a 95 percent or so renewal rate on season tickets alone. Do the Caps do that with Rick Nash skating in Alex Ovechkin’s place? Does Nash improve the club’s performance to creating a “winner’s effect” on purchase of tickets? Economically, this could be a net loser for the Caps even with the reduction in net contract cost and added cap flexibility, not to mention the uncertain effects on the ice.
If you've read this far...seek help.
by ThePeerless on Feb 26, 2012 10:07 AM EST up reply actions
I’ll grant, the “dumbest idea in the history of earth was hyperbole.” That idea is reserved for the shootout.
If you've read this far...seek help.
by ThePeerless on Feb 26, 2012 10:08 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
That works out to the need for a 95 percent or so renewal rate on season tickets alone. Do the Caps do that with Rick Nash skating in Alex Ovechkin’s place?
Do the Caps do that with Alex Ovechkin leading the team to 8/9th place finishes?
"Shots aren't the important thing. Scoring chances are way more important than shots." - Bruce Boudreau
See my work in the Washington Post and on ESPN Insider.
Follow me on Twitter @ngreenberg
For 12-13, probably (the team is forecasting a lower renewal rate from last season, but I don’t think it’s below that level). Past that, the Caps would have to market with an eye toward a host of other things (you wouldn’t be seeing price hikes of the sort we’ve seen the last few years). Much hinges, in either scenario, on what the club does in other areas. We’ve always maintained that the bigger, more important job, was what the team could build around Ovechkin. If their performance to date has resulted in this team, what suggests they would be better at building the other 20 skaters on the roster with Nash, or anyone else for that matter.
If you've read this far...seek help.
by ThePeerless on Feb 26, 2012 10:16 AM EST up reply actions
The team has an opportunity for the next few years with cheap goaltending to overspend on other areas and surround Ovechkin with some better talent at center….let’s hope they don’t waste it.
That window will close quick with expiring contracts, even with the leverage the club might have in them Green and Carlson are RFAs after this season, Alzner and Neuvirth after next.
If you've read this far...seek help.
by ThePeerless on Feb 26, 2012 10:21 AM EST up reply actions
One note is that Carlson, and than Neuvirth will be non arb RFA's
keeping the price low(see Alzner, Karl)
MOAR SEVERINO!
“Trade Ovechkin” is a great hypothetical for everyone to hammer on because it’s never going to happen and no one will ever be proven wrong for advocating it. It’s perfect for bar conversation and page views, right alongside “They should’ve drafted Malkin instead.”
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
by J.P. on Feb 26, 2012 10:17 AM EST up reply actions 3 recs
This is where I’m at. Could it happen? I suppose. I could get a date with Beyonce, too.
"Everything in excess... moderation is for monks"--Robert A. Heinlein
"Facts are meaningless, they can be used to prove anything"--Homer Simpson
It's shouldn't be THAT far fetched. What is...
Ovie now—or what has he been the last couple of years? A 30+ goal scorer with a questionable work ethic? Guys like that get traded all the time. True, he hasn’t been helped by Backstrom’s injury this year—but Ovie’s falloff started long before that.
by slipperyice on Feb 26, 2012 11:54 PM EST up reply actions
Not likely, sure, but I don’t think you can say it would never happen. At least not until the NTC kicks in.
"Shots aren't the important thing. Scoring chances are way more important than shots." - Bruce Boudreau
See my work in the Washington Post and on ESPN Insider.
Follow me on Twitter @ngreenberg
Better chance that Semin would score 40 in 2011-12.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
Heh. Agreed.
"Shots aren't the important thing. Scoring chances are way more important than shots." - Bruce Boudreau
See my work in the Washington Post and on ESPN Insider.
Follow me on Twitter @ngreenberg
My understanding of the Ovi NTC is that starting July 1, 2014 he can list up to 10 teams each year he will not accept a trade to, and can modify that list in September of every subsequent year.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
Agreed. It’ll obviously never happen but it’s not dumb from a hockey standpoint. That contract is so bad that I doubt there are more than 5 other contracts in the league that would put the Caps in a worse salary cap v. production situation. The politics of it happening are completely separate from the merits of it in terms of helping the hockey team.
Please, call me F&B.
Is it a bad contract if Ovechkin can return to his previous form? And thinking about it, it was a 6 year deal, with a 7 year deal tacked on – would it be a bad deal if it was just the original 6 year deal?
Gotta get to eighth place!
It would have been a fine contract at the original 6. It would be a fine contract if he was a perennial 100 point player.
He’s not.
Please, call me F&B.
They’re all legit, even if they are moot for all practical purposes. They can be instructive for other reasons.
Please, call me F&B.
Well, the unfortunate reality is we just have to hope that he gets back to being a perennial 100 point player, and not sign anyone for that kind of long term deal. Any deal longer than what is a stupid deal? 7 years?
Gotta get to eighth place!
I think it just depends on the player, but 7 is a pretty solid rule of thumb. I might take it to 6 but that’s splitting hairs. Things change really quickly, and the whole league has learned that (some harder than others). AO’s play fell off because of whatever. Sid would have been another guy you’d jump at giving a lifetime deal to… 14 months ago. Through no (or very little) fault of his own Sid’s career is in serious jeopardy and the idea of a long-term deal for him should be laughable.
You could construct scenarios where lifetime deals make sense (and I think the Richards and Carter ones make the most sense), but those are generally not going to be realistic (what if Mike Green signed for 12 years at 2 million per!) or involve cap circumvention that is probably going to be closed up in the next CBA (B. Richards).
Please, call me F&B.
The chances of the Caps making that decision between now and 3 p.m. on Monday are beyond remote. But it sure is worth debating. Your thoughts?
My thoughts? When something has the “beyond remote” chance of occurring, it’s not worth debating much less blogging about it.
Just trying to capture the spirit of the thing...
by dcsportsfan1 on Feb 26, 2012 9:24 AM EST up reply actions
The “trade Ovi” thought experiment was discussed here recently and was interesting from a purely hypothetical perspective. However, Gormley just seems interested in generating page hits.
"Everything in excess... moderation is for monks"--Robert A. Heinlein
"Facts are meaningless, they can be used to prove anything"--Homer Simpson
The "trade Ovi" thought experiment was discussed here recently and was interesting from a purely hypothetical perspective.
Do you really think the team would never entertain the thought of trading Ovechkin? Gretzky was traded. It can happen.
"Shots aren't the important thing. Scoring chances are way more important than shots." - Bruce Boudreau
See my work in the Washington Post and on ESPN Insider.
Follow me on Twitter @ngreenberg
But didn’t Pocklington trade Gretzky because he wasn’t able to afford his price? Ovi is, for better or worse, the face of the Capitals. And while hardcore fans could see the the benefit of a smart trade, I think the more casual fans who are helping to fill the arena might not.
"Everything in excess... moderation is for monks"--Robert A. Heinlein
"Facts are meaningless, they can be used to prove anything"--Homer Simpson
Ovi is, for better or worse, the face of the Capitals.
For now he sure is, and one of the faces of the NHL as well, which is why I think you have to look at off-ice contributions too when evaluating Ovi’s contract.
But, can a lot change between now and when the no-trade clause kicks in? Absolutely.
"Shots aren't the important thing. Scoring chances are way more important than shots." - Bruce Boudreau
See my work in the Washington Post and on ESPN Insider.
Follow me on Twitter @ngreenberg
And isn’t the no-trade limited? I forget if he names the teams he can or can’t be traded to without permission. So even then, it could happen in theory, but the limitation makes it more difficult in terms of the return.
"The Caps fan doesn't say, 'is the glass half full' or 'is the glass half empty'. He wonders when the glass is going to spill."
Short-term, sure, but it really depends on what the team looks like and how it performs in a Post-Ovechkin era, if there ever is one.
"Shots aren't the important thing. Scoring chances are way more important than shots." - Bruce Boudreau
See my work in the Washington Post and on ESPN Insider.
Follow me on Twitter @ngreenberg
Ovie has been huge to the franchise--but...
it’s all about winning. Superstars don’t matter so much when a team isn’t winning. The ultimate pr is a very good, winning hockey team.
by slipperyice on Feb 26, 2012 11:57 PM EST up reply actions
It’s all in the details. Ovechkin can be traded, but you are not just trading a player, you are trading a whole “brand.” The whole Rock the Red theme is a product of what Ovechkin has accomplished so far. That said, one has to entertain the notion of whether the “brand” has been tarnished by the play on the ice and the apparent change in Ovechkin’s whole on-ice/off-ice persona (gone seem to be the days of “jump-into-the-glass-Ovi”). If you do entertain that notion, the idea of trading Ovechkin has to become a more feasible consideration. Then it becomes timing. Does one wait for his re-starting his production to something approaching Ovi 1.0 levels, or is that a whole “Waiting for Godot” exercise in which the re-start never comes, and you are left with a rapidly depreciating asset?
That’s the cold-hearted nature of the business.
If you've read this far...seek help.
by ThePeerless on Feb 26, 2012 10:12 AM EST up reply actions
I absolutely agree with you about the “brand” issue. Not saying it can’t or shouldn’t happen, but that “Ovi trade day” would be one of those earth-shattering, much lamented, and oft discussed memories on the part of the young hockey fans here in Washington. When I think of just how many no. 8 youth jerseys are worn here! And the rapid growth of hockey to the point where there are kids on waiting lists because there isn’t enough ice to have more teams—interest and growth due to Ovi. And young fans are the ones most likely to stay faithful to hockey. Especially considering how often old time Caps fans, young themselves back then, still talk about painful memories, such as the trade of Stevens. No question but that trading Ovi would tilt the franchise negatively in the short term. It has ramifications far beyond moving a bad contract.
The question is whether it would be better for the franchise in the long term. Which is so hypothetical at the moment I’m not convinced. But I am certainly open to the idea, although it would be of a total franchise rebuild risky kind of venture.
However, Ovi for Nash is a categorical no for me. The Caps would be losing in this trade the intangibles of a winger who is still an impact player for a winger who although great still has lesser numbers and is also in decline. And the Caps would still be looking to solve the 2nd line center problem. As well as only going from a terrible contract to a bad one.
Ovechkin on how he can help the team: "Score MOAR goals."
by capsyoungguns on Feb 26, 2012 10:44 AM EST up reply actions
1) Agree on the “Brand” thing.
2) Also agree that trading Ovi for Nash would be a bad idea, to say the least. If anything, Nash’s productivity beginning with the 2008-2009 has been more comparable to Semin’s than to Ovi’s and that includes this year.
3) If Ovi were to be traded and for it to make sense for the Caps, it would have to include a VERY good draft pick or younger player who’s expected to be a star, preferable one who’s a center. Nash is a year older so fails on that account as good value. If the Islanders offered John Tavares and their first pick, the Caps should jump on that one. (Of course, the Islanders would never make that offer.) The receiving team would have to have lots of Cap space and lots of good, rising young players and that would probably only happen for a team that happened to be recently horrible. When Ovi is eligible to be traded, I’m sure most of the horrible teams would be on his “no trade” list. So, any candidate would have to have Cap space to burn, need a drawing card, and a bad team who’s looking to turn the corner.
Rocking the Red for teams on the banks of the Potomac and at the Gateway Arch and Singing the Blues about Hockey.
Gormley is basically the equivalent of a tabloid reporter who creates scenarios that will never happen with the hopes that readers will react to them which will lead to page views which will lead to his bosses thinking how valuable he is to CSN. It’s an approach that has worked for publications like the National Enquirer and the NY Post for decades. May help you keep your job but it doesn’t make for good journalism or even journalism. It’s the lazy man’s way to being topical.
by morning skate on Feb 26, 2012 9:38 AM EST up reply actions 7 recs
Rec’quiring minds want to know!
Cross check and all call.
by bigonetimer on Feb 26, 2012 10:15 AM EST up reply actions
Trade Gormely — Sounds like a winner.
Rocking the Red for teams on the banks of the Potomac and at the Gateway Arch and Singing the Blues about Hockey.
Whenever someone starts to rag on Gormley, this is what I see
I know, it’s Grimley, but…
It's all wrong, but it's all right.
by OldPhil on Feb 26, 2012 10:41 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
No, no, he’s on the right track. While we’re at it, let’s just trade Perreault for Suter and Weber.
Patron saint of quality footwear.
Has there been any official confirmation that @Kuzya92 is indeed Kuznetsov? Because people are starting to re-tweet the “3-5 weeks” prognosis on his injury.
"You can want to get to April but when you get to April you may not like the answers you get, so you might as well enjoy the ride while it's going on." - Brian McNally on JRR, 8/29/2011
According to Genadi Boguslavski, “Montreal based hockey writer for Russian paper Sovetsky Sport,” it is official:
The official twitter of #caps prospect Evgeny Kuznetsov @Kuzya92
"Shots aren't the important thing. Scoring chances are way more important than shots." - Bruce Boudreau
See my work in the Washington Post and on ESPN Insider.
Follow me on Twitter @ngreenberg
Hang on: The guy who’s confirming this is named is “Bogus”? : )
"You can want to get to April but when you get to April you may not like the answers you get, so you might as well enjoy the ride while it's going on." - Brian McNally on JRR, 8/29/2011
by bagace on Feb 26, 2012 9:30 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
I used @plysenkov as the source when I started to follow early this morning; he had the first tweet in the series today from what I can tell and IMO, deserves credit as the source of verification.
Pavel Lysenkov @plysenkov
The official twitter of Evgeny Kuznetsov (#traktor1947 and #caps) – @Kuzya92 (5 hours ago)
He went all Vokoun on that break, didn’t he?
If you've read this far...seek help.
by ThePeerless on Feb 26, 2012 10:20 AM EST up reply actions
Well, Vokoun was his idol.
"The Caps fan doesn't say, 'is the glass half full' or 'is the glass half empty'. He wonders when the glass is going to spill."
Just took him awhile to adapt to Vokoun’s style I guess.
Seriously, that was a gorgeous save. At the time I thought “See Neuvy can just as athletic in his flashy in his lunge and glove save.”
Ovechkin on how he can help the team: "Score MOAR goals."
by capsyoungguns on Feb 26, 2012 10:52 AM EST up reply actions
I laughed. so unusual to see Neuvy get really fired up. Not sure if he was yelling at his guys, or just really really pumped up about making a huge save on an ex-teammate.
Pledge Drive 2011-2012: CARSON KOLZIG FOUNDATION! Season Pledge total--$1328.52!
Mentioned this in the recap:
For those upset about DH’s comment regarding TV’s recent play, again, to show that his has happened a time or two before in the history of the game:
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/hockey/leafs-beat/reimer-feels-the-heat-after-another-lacklustre-showing/article2350169/
non-Caps, goalie Brad Thiessen expected to get his first NHL start today for the Pens against Columbus
Good move by the Sens in light of the Anderson injury and glad to see he’s not going to the Bolts.
by Rather Bengt on Feb 26, 2012 12:11 PM EST up reply actions
Some debate now as to whether he has signed the extension, but have to think he has/will.
Yes, a good move by Ottawa; some speculation going on about how Lehner will react; should be interesting.
As to TB, still watching to see what they do about goaltending and whether they do something now or during the summer.
Has Lehner been playing well in BIngo this year sk8?
by Rather Bengt on Feb 26, 2012 12:16 PM EST up reply actions
He has struggled for stretches. Recently had a hand/arm injury late in a Sens/Bears game and since he returned (was out a couple of weeks) his stats haven’t looked good either; I wonder if he’s still hurting. Team has had a lot of injuries and call-ups and no surprise, lost some players after winning last year.
From Bob McK
Ben Bishop’s extension from OTT is one year, one way worth $650,000. Won’t be signed until tomorrow.
by Rather Bengt on Feb 26, 2012 2:52 PM EST up reply actions
Glad to have the recent two victories, but I don’t think they changed the basic ‘sell/trade’ strategy for GMGM over the next 24 hours. Basically, I think he should extract value (preferably a top 6 forward(s)) for the following players:
Vokoun, Wideman (thanks to Greenie being back and Orlov stepping up), Hamr, Ward, Halpy, Knubes. It was difficult not to add Semin to that group but it would be nice with any of the cash he can shake lose from the above actions, he could Hemsky (verb; transitive) Semin.
I think we can keep our young defensive corps and Neuvy to get us into the playoffs.
You're right; I don't know what I am talking about.
I would love it if Semin would take $5 mil per for two years, but I don’t see it…hope I’m wrong as #28 has had a rebirth under Hunter.
Think that #28 sticks around to try to make a run this season….amazing what a difference it makes having Green back in the lineup, helps cover up some of the lack of centers deficiency.
As in with Green’s return to the lineup, I could see him get some pucks that, before his return, would go into the other team’s offensive zone.
Would also love Sasha take $5 mil for two years. (I don’t think he’d be able to command over $6 this year somehow.)
Rocking the Red for teams on the banks of the Potomac and at the Gateway Arch and Singing the Blues about Hockey.
Plekanec willing to waive his no trade clause supposedly. Thoughts?
by kovachs on Feb 26, 2012 12:12 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Do the Caps have enough turtleneck sweaters in stock to keep him happy?
by Rather Bengt on Feb 26, 2012 12:13 PM EST up reply actions
Damn you. Now I’ll have a picture of Alexei Yashin in my head for the rest of the day.
Nice guys finish first, but sometimes the season is awfully long.
Follow me on Twitter.
I like Pleks and think he would be a good 2C. He’s good on both sides of the puck. The term of his contract does give me pause somewhat $5 mil per until 2016-2017.
by Rather Bengt on Feb 26, 2012 12:19 PM EST up reply actions
Tough minutes eater, reliable 20G+ and PK’s like a madman. Buy.
Cross check and all call.
by bigonetimer on Feb 26, 2012 12:52 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Like RB the contract gives me pause, but I’ve always been a fan of his and I think he would fill the 2C hole. He’s always around the 50% FO wise and is their shutdown center. This year his offensive numbers are a bit off. Seems like a combo of his shooting percentage being a bit down combined with how bad the Habs as a whole have been.
I would be interested to read our resident Habs fan’s take. Thoughts Becca?
The Artist Formerly Known as CP2Devil.
Associate Editor at Five For Howling.
by Carl Putnam on Feb 26, 2012 12:57 PM EST up reply actions
He’d fill the 2C hole well for maybe two more years, then his O probably falls to good 3C for the remainder of the deal. Something to consider.
I’d do that deal toot sweet if we could send Laich the other way.
"Essentially, all models are wrong, but some are useful" George E.P. Box
I have $50 to Olie's autism charity or So Kids Can and a beer on the under for 50/57/107 as AO's final stat line for 2011-'12
And on Pekka Rinne's PK SV% dropping under .920 by the end of the '12 season
by Knee high to a duck on Feb 26, 2012 1:29 PM EST via iPhone app up reply actions
Eh – I think you want to hold onto Laich to eat the tough minutes.
I don’t think this team has nearly enough center depth to go trading their one (presently healthy) decent defensive center.
Yes, I know that Laich’s Corsi stats are poor, but he’s getting hammered on QComp and Zone Starts.
Unleash the Apathy.
I wonder though, in that case, whether it would be best to put Laich on Plekanec’s wing and have them eat the tough minutes, and have 3A/3B scoring lines for the 3rd and 4th. I get the feeling Laich is worth much more as a two-way player at LW, unfortunately.
Red Line Station and @RedArmyLine, featuring coverage of the most frustrating team in the NHL
I believe in next year.
by red army line on Feb 26, 2012 3:07 PM EST up reply actions
All I know is that the Caps probably shouldn’t trade Laich at this point – even if the return is another center. With Backstrom out and Laich gone in trade, they’re an injury away from MoJo – MP – Halpern – Beagle down the middle.
/shudders/
Unleash the Apathy.
And with Backstrom out and Laich here isn’t that the exact same picture? At least if you trade Laich for a C you actually have another C playing behind Nick.
Please, call me F&B.
by Rob Parker on Feb 26, 2012 7:02 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
… their one (presently healthy) decent defensive center.
I think that’s a bit unfair to Halpern. Dude’s been solid in his role.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
Ok, but Laich has allowed Halpern to take somewhat easier minutes, and I don’t want to rely on 35+ Halpy to play more than 15:00 repeatedly throughout the playoffs.
Unleash the Apathy.
No disagreement there at all.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
by J.P. on Feb 26, 2012 5:39 PM EST via iPhone app up reply actions
Of course, conflicting info on whether he waived his NTC or not – but barring that, what do you buy with?
1st rounder would seem too much, but only god knows what the market is. The fact that we’d be assuming a contract of $5M per for four more years and an NTC would drop the price down. He’s also 29, which could drop the price a bit.
If the Habs are blowing up and restarting, could we get Plek for Eakin and lower round draft pick? I’m not very good at guessing value.
Nice guys finish first, but sometimes the season is awfully long.
Follow me on Twitter.
I disagree a 1st rounder would be too much. Caps traded a 1st rounder for Brouwer this past draft. Pleks would fill a more vital role than Brouwer and is a better player.
EF is now saying that Plekanec’s agent is saying that his client did not withdraw his no-trade clause, take that as you will.
by Rather Bengt on Feb 26, 2012 1:04 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
The age and expense don’t reduce the price?
Nice guys finish first, but sometimes the season is awfully long.
Follow me on Twitter.
He’s 29. I am not really fretting over the price. I think he would easily fetch a 1st rounder were he available. Where a 35 year old Hal Gill and a 34 year old Pavel Kubina can fetch 2nd rounders….Actually more apropos, where a 36 year old Jason Arnott can fetch a 2nd rounder and a (albeit salary dumped) roster player at the deadline, I don’t think the fact Pleks is almost 30 will devalue him.
by Rather Bengt on Feb 26, 2012 1:12 PM EST up reply actions
Of course, the expected value of the 1st rounder is an unknown factor. Back when we traded for Brouwer, we knew exactly what pick it was. The value of our 1st is now an unknown quantity but, unless we both make the playoffs and do better than expected, it’s a pick that’s earlier in the round in a deeper draft than last year.
Rocking the Red for teams on the banks of the Potomac and at the Gateway Arch and Singing the Blues about Hockey.
FWIW – Cox just tweeted that he thinks 60% likely that Grabovski is moved. 1st rounder for him or for Plek, if you have a choice?
Nice guys finish first, but sometimes the season is awfully long.
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Grabovski’s UFA, so should be cheaper to acquire, right? That’s without looking at stats or anything.
"The Caps fan doesn't say, 'is the glass half full' or 'is the glass half empty'. He wonders when the glass is going to spill."
Yes, but the flipside with a UFA is you will likely lose him after the season. Fine if you just want to rent, but 2C situation needs to be solved long term.
The Artist Formerly Known as CP2Devil.
Associate Editor at Five For Howling.
Exactly CP, I am tired of the revolving door scenario the Caps are currently using at 2C.
by Rather Bengt on Feb 26, 2012 1:26 PM EST up reply actions
I wasn’t suggesting one over the other, just asking a question. No argument, I want the long term solution like everyone else. They tried short term last year (Arnott).
"The Caps fan doesn't say, 'is the glass half full' or 'is the glass half empty'. He wonders when the glass is going to spill."
They tried short term last year (Arnott).
Belanger and Feds before that. None were 2C’s at that point in their career, and in Belanger’s case, he never was.
The Artist Formerly Known as CP2Devil.
Associate Editor at Five For Howling.
Of course, he wasn’t a deadline deal. Never mind :)
by Rather Bengt on Feb 26, 2012 1:38 PM EST up reply actions
Still on topic. Brought in to fill hole/s at center.
The Artist Formerly Known as CP2Devil.
Associate Editor at Five For Howling.
Every time I see your Yotes CP, I wish Hanzal were on the Caps.
How’s Vermette looked in the couple games he’s played with PHX?
by Rather Bengt on Feb 26, 2012 1:43 PM EST up reply actions
Hard not to love Marty. Anchors the best two way line in hockey IMO.
I didn’t get to see the majority of Vermette’s first game. He’s looked excellent yesterday against the Oilers. Good in the dot as usual and had several excellent scoring opportunities. He’s going to be an excellent fit for Tippett’s system.
The Artist Formerly Known as CP2Devil.
Associate Editor at Five For Howling.
Tough one.
Grabovski is the flashier of the two, but a part of me is tempted by Pleks because of how responsible defensively he is. You can use him on the PP and PK. Grabs plays on a line in Toronto where Kulemin does the dirty D work. The other factor is you have to sign him at the end of the year and God knows what he will be asking (TOR media reports are saying $5 mil is a starting point). With Pleks you have the security of him being locked in, even if it is for longer than with which I am initially comfortable.
by Rather Bengt on Feb 26, 2012 1:22 PM EST up reply actions
I didn’t look to see Grabo was a UFA. Given that, no way I’m paying the same for him, as I am for Pleks, unless I prenegotiate an extension, which won’t be possible at the deadline.
Nice guys finish first, but sometimes the season is awfully long.
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Without looking, I suspect they’re similarly effective players. Plekanec has cost certainty, Grabbo could walk.
On identical Ks, I want the younger of the two.
So Plekanec if there’s no agreement to sign a discount deal (and I don’t know why there would be), Grabs if there is. I’d rather hang onto the 1st and assets, truth be told.
"Essentially, all models are wrong, but some are useful" George E.P. Box
I have $50 to Olie's autism charity or So Kids Can and a beer on the under for 50/57/107 as AO's final stat line for 2011-'12
And on Pekka Rinne's PK SV% dropping under .920 by the end of the '12 season
by Knee high to a duck on Feb 26, 2012 1:27 PM EST via iPhone app up reply actions
Agreed. I wouldn’t give up much for either, not in a deadline market. If you really want Grabo then go into July 1 with a plan to bring to his agent. You’d have to do that anyway and he’s not going to turn this team into a Cup contender so why give up a lot of value?
I’m in the same boat with Pleks regarding 2/3C. If nothing else, this year we’ve learned that if you want to contend you need a 2C that can step up for 1C if you want to be a contender. Not a 2C that could be (and in a couple years will probably relegated to) a stud 3C. I also hate Pleks so I’d really have to hold my nose to take him.
Please, call me F&B.
I’d do Eakin and a middle pick in a heartbeat. Of course, that deal only works if you can get Gauthier to go insane. Contract isn’t awful, so Caps can’t claim they would be taking some abomination off the Habs hands. If all they want is a 1st round pick I’d do it immediately. However, if they made such a deal it would also mean the Caps would need to move a bunch of salary in another deal or two to get under the cap.
The Artist Formerly Known as CP2Devil.
Associate Editor at Five For Howling.
Well – presumably Backstrom is going to LTIR. That opens up plenty.
Nice guys finish first, but sometimes the season is awfully long.
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Well, the Habs need a blueliner to run the PP, right?…
I really, really hope I’m not underwhelmed today and tomorrow, but I expect I will be, unfortunately. With such big holes in the lineup, it’s hard to address them all without giving up significant assets.
Red Line Station and @RedArmyLine, featuring coverage of the most frustrating team in the NHL
I believe in next year.
by red army line on Feb 26, 2012 1:12 PM EST up reply actions
it’s hard to address them all without giving up significant assets
And I think that’s what will make the posts here very interesting tomorrow – or even more interesting than usual.
Someone is bound to get moved that wasn’t anticipated, like Steckel last year. It’s easy to say that Semin or Wides or Halpy or Knuble get moved, but don’t be shocked if we see someone with a contract for next year moved as well.
Nice guys finish first, but sometimes the season is awfully long.
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Um – yes. Like Ovie for Nash.
Nice guys finish first, but sometimes the season is awfully long.
Follow me on Twitter.
Short term, yes. Long term, no. You would still likely have to deal an asset or two in the offseason or I guess you could just let Semin go for nothing.
The Artist Formerly Known as CP2Devil.
Associate Editor at Five For Howling.
FWIW – SportsClubStats has the Caps at 63.5% likely to make the playoffs in their weighted scenario. They ran the simulation 6.2M times. 33% of the 6.2M, they finish 3rd, 21% 8th, and 17% 9th.
To give you a sense of how important the head-to-head matchups are (at least in their model), last night’s win, combined with other games, added 12.9% their playoff likelihood.
Florida’s chances are 74.5% likely. Winnipeg’s only 35.5%, but presumably that has to with the already played games.
Nice guys finish first, but sometimes the season is awfully long.
Follow me on Twitter.
I put little weight in simulations that are run less than 6.3 million times.
by Stormblue on Feb 26, 2012 12:56 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Damn, beat me to it. ;)
"The Caps fan doesn't say, 'is the glass half full' or 'is the glass half empty'. He wonders when the glass is going to spill."
ha, fwiw, I’ve had the AHL transactions page up all morning; wasn’t sure if they’d announce it or if it would just show up there.
I rely on twitter, and since I’m again working, it’s open on my computer.
"The Caps fan doesn't say, 'is the glass half full' or 'is the glass half empty'. He wonders when the glass is going to spill."
I look forward to Coiner’s next goal with the Caps in 2015.
by Rather Bengt on Feb 26, 2012 1:05 PM EST up reply actions
Touche. Also, he’s coming up on the waiver limit (and clear day roster).
"The Caps fan doesn't say, 'is the glass half full' or 'is the glass half empty'. He wonders when the glass is going to spill."
Will this be a “paper” assignment? And we’ll see him back Tuesday?
Rocking the Red for teams on the banks of the Potomac and at the Gateway Arch and Singing the Blues about Hockey.
Depends who we pick up and whom we let go on Monday.
Nice guys finish first, but sometimes the season is awfully long.
Follow me on Twitter.
by STLSpidey on Feb 26, 2012 12:59 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
And will they do the “paper” reassignment of Dima to Hershey and subsequent callup of Dima so he can qualify for Hershey’s “clear day” roster as well, just in case.
Rocking the Red for teams on the banks of the Potomac and at the Gateway Arch and Singing the Blues about Hockey.
I’d be surprised if they didn’t.
Red Line Station and @RedArmyLine, featuring coverage of the most frustrating team in the NHL
I believe in next year.
by red army line on Feb 26, 2012 1:11 PM EST up reply actions
I’d be surprised if they do. I think he’s here to stay and the only way Hershey gets him back this year is if they play longer than the Caps do. And right now, I’d say that’s a 50/50 proposition.
"The Caps fan doesn't say, 'is the glass half full' or 'is the glass half empty'. He wonders when the glass is going to spill."
It only has to be a “paper transaction.” That’s what they did with Carlson, IIRC.
Red Line Station and @RedArmyLine, featuring coverage of the most frustrating team in the NHL
I believe in next year.
by red army line on Feb 26, 2012 1:52 PM EST up reply actions
Really disappointed there’s no game of the week this afternoon. I want my hockey on my computer!
"The Caps fan doesn't say, 'is the glass half full' or 'is the glass half empty'. He wonders when the glass is going to spill."
Speaking of Sunday games, when did they make the Caps-Flyers game a 7:00 pm game? Last I looked it was 3:00pm, with a possibility of NBC making it a 12:30.
"You can want to get to April but when you get to April you may not like the answers you get, so you might as well enjoy the ride while it's going on." - Brian McNally on JRR, 8/29/2011
You can’t catch a SE division leader with a pot and a pan, moron, u take a broom and a mop……..
by Obi wan Knuble on Feb 26, 2012 1:29 PM EST via iPhone app reply actions
From Pierre LeBrun
Johnny Oduya (UFA July 1) getting the most traction on Jets… no guarantee he’ll move but he’s most likely of the Jets to be dealt
The absolute lack of any news or rumors regarding he Caps is killing me
by Beakers Lab on Feb 26, 2012 6:30 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
There are never any reliable rumors concerning the Caps. Every trading day is a surprise party for Caps fans (except last year, when Arnott was almost a given to come here).
If you've read this far...seek help.
Yeah, me too. Does anyone know if GMGM went to the office today….or, at least has his cell phone on? Let’s get some value while we can for Knubes, Vokoun, Wides, and Hamr….at least.
You're right; I don't know what I am talking about.
Eh. I’m at the point where I don’t mind anything GMGM does. No reason to sell parts of a team that has a decent chance of making the playoffs and making a few million dollars on the bottom line. No reason not to either, long term. I don’t care anymore, because I like seeing the team win. Hamr and Knubes for draft picks or bodies would be fine, because they aren’t playing. Wideman is, so hold on to him (I’d even re-sign him, personally, ESPECIALLY if you can move Hamrlik).
/shrug/meh at this point.
Gotta get to eighth place!
Of course GMGM has his phone on. Not hearing anything doesn’t mean nothing will happen. GMGM (who is even defined online) doesn’t let rumors happen. Ninja.
Proud member of the Popsicle Division of the Cupcake Conference.
GMGM is obviously taking calls.
This trade deadline is going to be just like the season. A boring, steaming disappointment. GMGM surely knows that this isn’t an “all in” kind of season. You don’t mortgage anything that has future value to help this team. But they are also close enough that they aren’t going to go into sell mode. They are going to try to make the playoffs, so you won’t see Vokoun, Wideman, or Semin get shipped out. You may see some depth players move, but depth players aren’t going to change the complexion of the current or future team.
Please, call me F&B.
Would love to see them be aggressive about solving the longer term problems of this team….if that meant shipping out Vokoun and Wideman to get assets that would add up to a legit center that would help them longer than this year I would pull the trigger and partially give up on this year.
I’m sure they would sell off Wideman and Vokoun for a true 1/2 C. But no playoff team is going to sell their 1/2C, and only playoff teams would wand Wideman / Vokoun with their one year contracts. 1/2 Cs are just exceedingly rare.
Proud member of the Popsicle Division of the Cupcake Conference.
Get a first for Vokoun, get a first for Wideman….
You know have 4 first round picks and prospects to offer other teams.
I’d be on board with that, but Vokoun does have a NMC so that might complicate things. And I am still not sure who 4 1st round picks would bring. Any suggestions on who you want the 2C to be?
Proud member of the Popsicle Division of the Cupcake Conference.
I’m sure they could talk Vokes into waiving his NMC if it involved a trade to a team that had a good chance for the Cup. The question is … what teams fit that category who could use help in goal?
We can already eliminate the Rangers, Vancouver, Nashville, and probably St. Louis for that. Detroit — depends on health of Howard. Chicago — maybe. Flyers — rumor has it they’re looking for goaltending.
Rocking the Red for teams on the banks of the Potomac and at the Gateway Arch and Singing the Blues about Hockey.
I can’t imagine trading Vokes to anyone in the East. Here are the teams in the West, ranked by pts. I struck out Phoenix, LA, Calgary, Minnesota, and Anaheim have great goaltending so I can’t imagine them giving up anything for a deadline rental.
Vancouver
Detroit
Phoenix
St Louis
Nashville
Chicago
San Jose
Dallas
Los Angeles
Colorado
Calgary
Minnesota
Anaheim
Any of those remaining seem desperate enough to pay out the nose for Vokoun? I don’t see him moving for anything less than a 1st+.
Proud member of the Popsicle Division of the Cupcake Conference.
Toronto, as we just saw. I doubt, however, they would want to trade with us. San Jose has been hurting in goal, too, recently,.
You're right; I don't know what I am talking about.
by Wilderthing on Feb 26, 2012 10:39 PM EST up reply actions
Why would Toronto not want to trade with us? Yea they don’t want to make us better this year, but it’s not like we’ll play them in the playoffs. If they sneak in as an 8, we would be either 3 or 7, which would make an 8 matchup unlikely till the finals.
Proud member of the Popsicle Division of the Cupcake Conference.
What about Stastny from Colorado?
A couple of first round picks + eakin, or mojo….still leaves you with two first round picks for next year…
At $6.6, just below Backstrom, that would replace Semin’s money. It would also make it tight for other players needing raises, but for a legit 1/2C I’d do it.
2 1sts (Oh hey, have your 1st back guys!) + mojo. I’d do it, but would Colorado? We’d probably have to throw in some other NHL player as well.
Proud member of the Popsicle Division of the Cupcake Conference.
Decisions decisions….i’m sure they have conversations with Semin’s agent and have an idea what he wants for next year which factors into their decision… I think it’s pretty clear that at $6.7 per he can’t come back.
I don’t think Semin comes back at more than 5. We simply don’t have enough cap space to sign another winger.
Hmm, 2 1st + mojo and Semin? I’d do that for Stastny, and Colorado might as it wouldn’t look like they were giving up on this year.
Proud member of the Popsicle Division of the Cupcake Conference.
I’m a Stastny fan but two first rounders plus Mojo? In the Avs dreams. He is UFA after two more seasons, he is not good enough or young enough to fetch that price.
It isn’t even anger-inducing. It does not seem to be worth that kind of emotional investment. It might not even be disappointing any more. It is expected.
-Peerless 5.6.2011
Thing is, you can probably move all four of those guys and still not be giving up. Wideman was of most value, but now that Green is back, he’s expendable.
It isn’t even anger-inducing. It does not seem to be worth that kind of emotional investment. It might not even be disappointing any more. It is expected.
-Peerless 5.6.2011
Yes, that was exactly my point. Certainly, with Knubes & Hamr, it should not affect the playoff chances. Therefore, anything we do with them (even just getting cap room) is a plus. It is a little more iffy with Wides because even though he has been so productive for the team this year Green looks to be back at 90%, Orlov is approaching Wide’s offensive punch and is probably no more of a defensive liability, and Carly looks to be getting his mojo back. As such, while risky, I think trying to get some – if not substantial – value now makes a lot of sense. And I think the same ‘iffy’ argument applies to TV, although it is probably riskier than with Wides and the others. Anyway, Rob is probably correct; we all probably be disappointed.
You're right; I don't know what I am talking about.
It’s not “giving up” but it is lowering playoff chances. Wideman is not useless with a healthy Green, he’s still a good D. I think he’s over priced and it would be a great benefit long term to trade Wideman, but I don’t think trading Wideman for picks would help the team this year. You need lots of healthy D to make it in the playoffs.
That said, I’d be selling everyone if I was GMGM and I knew Baxter wasn’t going to be back soon. A cup will not happen without Backstrom.
Proud member of the Popsicle Division of the Cupcake Conference.
Yes, getting rid of Wideman would lower our playoff chances. So what should GMGM do? I figure if Nicky hasn’t been skating recently, he won’t be coming back any time soon. Those of us with college aged kids will likely see our kids home on spring break before Nicky even starts practicing with the team, much less playing.
The worst case would be to hold onto our assets and miss the playoffs, as the Panthers did 3 years ago.
Yet, I still have this hope that the Caps can still make the playoffs and I have not given up on the season.
Rocking the Red for teams on the banks of the Potomac and at the Gateway Arch and Singing the Blues about Hockey.
But, the entire point to this thread (at least in my mind) is that you CAN sell some of these assets (see discussion) and STILL not necessarily miss out of the playoffs. It is not ‘either-or.’ Instead, it is a combination of maximizing existing assets to not ‘hurt’ the chances for the playoffs, and simultaneously realize how important the next few years are to the franchise. I, personally, vote for a strong sell and try to get Nicky healthy for next year. But, I also realize the emotional tug to have the Caps make the playoffs this year plus the need for Ted to make a few bucks on a couple playoff games. No matter what, though, don’t waste assets now on some vain and unrealistic hope.
You're right; I don't know what I am talking about.
by Wilderthing on Feb 26, 2012 10:51 PM EST up reply actions
Late Sunday standings review:
3rd – Florida – 70 points, 61GP, 29W, 25ROW
8th – Winnipeg – 68 points, 64GP, 30W, 26ROW
9th – Washington – 67 points, 62GP, 31W, 30ROW
10th – Toronto – 65 points, 62GP, 29W, 26ROW
Caps begin a 5-game home stand Tuesday, with three of the five games against teams currently out of the playoffs.
Florida has four of the next six on the road with games at Toronto, Winnipeg and back-to-back Philadelphia and Pittsburgh.
Winnipeg is the only team in action tomorrow night, hosting Edmonton. Six of their next eight games are at home.
Nice guys finish first, but sometimes the season is awfully long.
Follow me on Twitter.
Does anyone know what the story with Derek Roy is? I remember him being mentioned from time to time as potentially available, but I haven’t heard anything recently.
He brings more offense than Plekanec and is cheaper, but isn’t as great defensively. Thoughts?
I’d like to have a bigger 2C as well, but Roy seems to compensate pretty well for his small stature. I don’t see why he’d cost much more than Plekanec, and I think I’d rather have him given his cap hit and production.
reply fail...
Above post was meant as a reply to kovacks.
Backstrom on LTIR
Room for a big move:
@RealKyper
#SNtrade. For the #Caps does putting Nick Backstrom on Long term IR recently now free up cap space for a big bold move?
Endavant, a triomfar, a guanyar Villarreal!
by siempre_riquelme on Feb 27, 2012 9:01 AM EST reply actions
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