Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Login-facebook
Around SBN: Indy 500: Coverage of the 'Greatest Spectacle In Racing'

Tuesday Caps Clips: Rock Bottom?

Your savory breakfast links:

Facebook_16 Twitter_16

Comment 748 comments  |  0 recs  | 

Do you like this story?

More from Japers' Rink

Saturday Caps Clips

May 2012 by J.P. - 26 comments

Friday Caps Clips

May 2012 by EmilyB - 83 comments

The Noon Number

May 2012 by J.P. - 7 comments

2011-12 Rink Wrap: Mike Green

May 2012 by J.P. - 51 comments

The Noon Number

May 2012 by J.P. - 6 comments

Thursday Caps Clips

May 2012 by EmilyB - 313 comments

Comments

Display:

Frankovic

“Much of what McPhee does also hinges on the prospects of Backstrom getting healthy because without him, let’s face it, this team can’t go deep in the playoffs, even if the GM adds another center.

One thing is for certain, the Caps were horrible on Monday night and they had no confidence on the ice the entire game. If the Capitals next three games before the trade deadline (at Ottawa, home against Montreal, and at Toronto) go anything like they did in Carolina, then the GM should probably start playing for next season"

Game. Set. Match.

by ShootTheBullets on Feb 21, 2012 7:04 AM EST reply actions  

Key word being “should.”

Wonder if the owner, in the heels of a poorly received hike in season ticket prices, agrees with that assessment.

What’s the furthest out of first in the SE and 8th in the Conference the team can be on Monday morning?

Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world

by J.P. on Feb 21, 2012 7:08 AM EST via iPhone app up reply actions  

This is still a team with a rough 6-of-7 road stretch remaining (at BOS, NYI, WPG, CHI, DET, PHL). If they are not in the top eight by the end of this weekend, it’s really hard to see a path to getting in by either avenue.

FLA has MIN, at CAR, and MTL before Monday
WPG has four home games through Monday: PHL, TBL, STL, EDM
TOR has three home games: NJD, SJS, and WSH

FLA and WPG might actually be in a position to put some distance between themselves and the Caps. Toronto has a tougher road, even though they’re at home.

Washington is at OTT, home to MTL, and at TOR between now and Monday. I would think they need at least two of three, and one of the wins has to be Toronto.

If you've read this far...seek help.

by ThePeerless on Feb 21, 2012 7:25 AM EST up reply actions  

So the SED could look like this:

WPG: 72 (65 GP)
FLA: 71 (61 GP)
WSH: 63 (62 GP)

And the bottom of the East would include those teams and:

TOR: 70 (62 GP)

To me, that’d be enough to throw in the towel. But again, I’m not the one making the call and I’m not the one who has to sell giving up with 20 games left trailing by four wins to people whose ticket prices I just jacked up again.

Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world

by J.P. on Feb 21, 2012 7:30 AM EST up reply actions  

I think there is an opportunity here for a mea culpa of sorts; things didn’t work out as plamned so take ownership and admit that mistakes were made. Hershey is pretty barren of future NHL talent. There isn’t anything that can be done to bring Nicky back or save this season, so the best thing to do is face those facts, trade away players that aren’t in the future plans can and get ready to retool the team again this summer. The fans may not like the situation, but I’d imagine they would rather ownership shoot straight and acknowledge the deficiencies with this team rather than pretend there are still playoff expectations for this season.

I don't want to work, I want to hang on the blog all day.

by cainoo7x on Feb 21, 2012 7:59 AM EST via Android app up reply actions   2 recs

As Neil just pointed out on Twitter, Ted, last summer:

“The [#Caps] will make the playoffs – as I promised – 10 to 15 years in a row. That’s what I believe.”

Think they’re not going to try to salvage this season?

Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world

by J.P. on Feb 21, 2012 8:43 AM EST up reply actions  

Alzner for Zhitnik!

"Now fair's fair Henry. If I nail Hotlips and punch Hawkeye, can I go home too?

Now Dropping Bombs at Capitals Outsider

Twitter
Ron and Fez 11 to 3

by YvonLabresMoustache on Feb 21, 2012 8:44 AM EST up reply actions  

Coburn wishes.

Please, call me F&B.

by Rob Parker on Feb 21, 2012 9:26 AM EST up reply actions  

I’ll lose a lot of respect and support for Ted and GMGM if they mortgage the future to try and uphold a pompous claim

(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
┬─┬ノ( º _ ºノ)

by JediChewbacca on Feb 21, 2012 8:48 AM EST up reply actions  

I don’t think they’ll mortgage much of the future, but I don’t think they’ll do the mini-firesale that they probably ought to.

Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world

by J.P. on Feb 21, 2012 8:50 AM EST up reply actions  

I’d deal Wideman in a heartbeat. You’d get a metric shit ton in return.

I’d also bounce Knuble. Bet they’d love to have him in either Boston or Vancouver. Those are two trades you could make relatively cheaply, and still keep your season together.

"Now fair's fair Henry. If I nail Hotlips and punch Hawkeye, can I go home too?

Now Dropping Bombs at Capitals Outsider

Twitter
Ron and Fez 11 to 3

by YvonLabresMoustache on Feb 21, 2012 8:53 AM EST up reply actions  

agree

Agree on Knuble and Wideman, can get good value for him, also Semin needs to go, only way he stays here is to take big paycut and he wont do that, 6.7 mil this yr for 16 goals, sorry but time for him to go elsewhere

by jeffo79 on Feb 21, 2012 11:49 AM EST up reply actions  

If he can bring back a strong center who can be useful for a few years I don’t mind, but I think a lot of real contending teams would have use for Vokoun and Semin, who could very well be gone at the end of the season. I would just rather GMGM get value for what he has.

(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
┬─┬ノ( º _ ºノ)

by JediChewbacca on Feb 21, 2012 8:53 AM EST up reply actions  

Wideman and Vokoun need to go — both should get an inequal amount of return compared to their future potential with the team.Anyone else, who knows. Those two are sure-fire moves to make.

Comrades, leave me here a little, while as yet 't is early morn:
Leave me here, and when you want me, sound upon the bugle-horn

by sydtron on Feb 21, 2012 10:46 AM EST up reply actions  

Well, management needs to decide whether the goal is some number of consecutive playoff appearances or whether it’s to win the Stanley Cup because those goals aren’t necessarily congruant.

I don't want to work, I want to hang on the blog all day.

by cainoo7x on Feb 21, 2012 10:13 AM EST up reply actions  

I think they believe it is. The idea is to get into the playoffs often enough and hope to get hot/lucky. Can’t win if you’re not in.

by kingbonehead on Feb 21, 2012 10:19 AM EST up reply actions  

Good point JP, I said “should”

That clause was also dependent on them playing horribly like they did last night.

They will not be consistent at all with the holes up front right now, but if they can scratch and claw 2 or 3 wins out the rest of the week and GMGM feels that 19 is back at some point, then he has to make moves.

Plus GMGM may not be too secure in his position right now, his job is likely on the line.

The ticket hike is just another factor in a convoluted mess, at this stage.

by Ed F - WNST on Feb 21, 2012 7:32 AM EST up reply actions  

Yep. Lots of moving parts.

If I had to bet at this point, I think my money is largely on standing pat – you can sell that to fans (“We’re not giving up, but the right deals weren’t there”), you don’t mortgage the future for an unrealistic hope at a shot at… something, and you don’t waive the white flag to your customers.

Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world

by J.P. on Feb 21, 2012 7:35 AM EST up reply actions  

This is where I think they are coming down. They cannot realistically add much in salary, and even if they could, there are too many holes on this roster for a trade or two to make a difference between playoff qualifier and Stanley Cup contender. And there is the whole matter of “the plan.” How do you sell trading picks/prospects for players when you have spent the last five years extolling the virtues of building through the draft (a strategy I agree with)?

The missing variable here is there are jobs on the line, and those jobs are held by people who make talent decisions. This is a team that has regressed quite a bit in just a couple of years, with the interchangeable role players brought in not contributing much and the core just not nearly as productive as it once was (or as healthy, to be fair). Do deals get made to buy a year?

If you've read this far...seek help.

by ThePeerless on Feb 21, 2012 7:41 AM EST up reply actions  

Nicky

I just think that leaving nick on the sidelines would be best long-term, and a reboot is needed for this squad, since it seems like we’re on the receiving end of a lot more beat-downs than we’ve been administering. They have no confidence and for whatever reason, the team chemistry is just not positive.
Looking back, Brooks (by seniority & innate leadership skills) should have been named captain instead of Ovi when we traded Clark. He’s apparently just not cut out to be captain. He was a great player playing scared now. Everytime there’s an issue with Ovi’s aggressiveness, he plays erratically and tentatively, and (a) he can’t center his own line and (b) Nicky covered for his lack of defense.

by ShootTheBullets on Feb 21, 2012 7:52 AM EST up reply actions  

With all due respect to Laich, while there’s clearly a leadership void on this team, if he or anyone needs a letter to be a leader, they’re in the wrong line of work.

I can buy “Ovi shouldn’t have been named captain because it’s put too much pressure on him” before I buy “Laich should’ve been named captain because he’s obviously a great leader.”

Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world

by J.P. on Feb 21, 2012 7:55 AM EST up reply actions  

I couldn’t agree more. Which shirt the C is sewn on makes little difference to the bottom line.

What doesnt kill you makes you stronger.

by BetterOffWith28 on Feb 21, 2012 8:23 AM EST via mobile up reply actions  

How can you possibly have the insight to say “innate leadership skills?” Are you aware that most high-level hockey teams give a lot of weight to the opinions of the players on the team when it comes to determining Captains? Even if it’s not an outright vote, if there is a guy with clear “innate leadership skills” that the players look up to, coaches will notice that. Would I like to see some/most of these guys take some cues from Laich in terms of work ethic and commitment? You betcha. But the fact that he has so rarely worn a letter I think speaks to how much sway/influence he has over the rest of the players.

Please, call me F&B.

by Rob Parker on Feb 21, 2012 9:38 AM EST up reply actions  

You know I was here begging for BB to get fired. it was either him or the players at that point. At this point I am becoming one of the " Blow the whole thing up" guys. This is a poorly built team, their is a lack of hart and commitment. I would genuinly ship OVI out of DC. He is absolutly not worth the rest of his contract and to think he ever will be again , naive.

Ice Breakers>Goal Shakers....THE CAPS !!

by RedRocka on Feb 21, 2012 8:05 AM EST up reply actions  

I don’t understand the notion of “shipping off” Ovi. Yes, his contract is long and expensive. But it’s not realistic to say that you can simply just get rid of someone like Ovechkin without causing irrevocable harm to the fanbase, the team, and the game. What will it accomplish? For better or for worse, Ovi and this team are in it together and by extension, the DC area’s enthusiasm for hockey has a lot to do with him. Washington has become a good place for hockey (fans and recreational players alike) and it is a place a lot of NHL players want to consider, even if it hasn’t won a Cup. I think a lot of fans would stop watching if GMGM (or whoever is GM) traded Ovi. There’s a lot of loyalty tied into him because (whether you like it or not) he had a significant part in reinvigorating this franchise.

by jopierce on Feb 21, 2012 8:49 AM EST via iPhone app up reply actions   2 recs

Yeah, there’s a lot more to it than the on-ice production (or, more specifically, the lack thereof).

Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world

by J.P. on Feb 21, 2012 8:51 AM EST up reply actions  

the DC area’s enthusiasm for hockey has a lot to do with him

I disagree. I remember nights from 05-08 when the Verizon Center was empty, despite Ovechkin playing out of his mind.

Amazing Ovechkin on a crappy team = interesting highlights on evening news.

Amazing Ovechkin on a great team = arena full (08-11)

Mediocre Ovechkin on a mediocre team = 2011-????

Washington fans (all fans) support winners, not great players.

Unleash the Apathy.

by D'ohboy on Feb 21, 2012 9:12 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

I agree with that – there’s an initial curiosity factor, but then if the wins don’t come, the fans won’t. What’s the Wiz’ attendance looking like these days?

Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world

by J.P. on Feb 21, 2012 9:34 AM EST up reply actions  

JOHN WALL?!?!?!

Unleash the Apathy.

by D'ohboy on Feb 21, 2012 9:36 AM EST up reply actions  

5...maybe 6?

(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
┬─┬ノ( º _ ºノ)

by JediChewbacca on Feb 21, 2012 9:36 AM EST up reply actions  

STEPHEN STRASBURG?!?!?!

Unleash the Apathy.

by D'ohboy on Feb 21, 2012 9:36 AM EST up reply actions  

Americans love a winner. And will not tolerate a loser.

"Now fair's fair Henry. If I nail Hotlips and punch Hawkeye, can I go home too?

Now Dropping Bombs at Capitals Outsider

Twitter
Ron and Fez 11 to 3

by YvonLabresMoustache on Feb 21, 2012 9:37 AM EST up reply actions  

Unless they are running for office.

Please, call me F&B.

by Rob Parker on Feb 21, 2012 9:42 AM EST up reply actions   4 recs

Hall of Fame goalie Chris Osgood Jeremy Roenick for President!

Adequate combination of winner and loser.

Comrades, leave me here a little, while as yet 't is early morn:
Leave me here, and when you want me, sound upon the bugle-horn

by sydtron on Feb 21, 2012 12:27 PM EST up reply actions  

All good points. Truth be told if this is all OVI can bring to the table now and going forward,then now would be the time to deal him. I definatly believe there are teams out there that would pay the price to get him. OVI has done what he has done to reinvigurate the franchise, but at the same time if this is all he has ,he will soon undue all he has done for DC hockey and his salary will crush any chance this team has at a real future.It doesn’t matter it isn’t happening this season anyway.

Ice Breakers>Goal Shakers....THE CAPS !!

by RedRocka on Feb 21, 2012 1:55 PM EST up reply actions  

I truly believe that OVI will improve when the rest of the team does.

by jm87 on Feb 21, 2012 2:45 PM EST up reply actions  

I will disagree with you both a little bit. The resurgance came not because of Ovi or because of the wins, it came because of a highpaced interesting hockey with a lot of up and downs, high scoring, amazing comebacks and beautiful plays during the games. Ovi contributed a lot to it and the wins came along. It was exciting to watch them and many people discovered or rediscovered their love to the game.

by aleand on Feb 21, 2012 2:42 PM EST up reply actions  

It took those years for me to be aware that there was a hockey team in DC. Getting the keys to the city was the turning point. All the coverage made me aware of him and the team.

(Yes, I know about the avatar hounding - just pretend mine is invisible.)

by oldemystix on Feb 21, 2012 10:59 AM EST up reply actions  

yes

I love that Statement

by jeffo79 on Feb 21, 2012 11:52 AM EST up reply actions  

Fans that won’t watch if Ovi is traded are … meh. I could take it or leave it. There were virtues to having $10 seats available.

I understand he’s not going anywhere, but I don’t think his impact on the fan base should outweigh the impact on ice and on the salary cap.

Please, call me F&B.

by Rob Parker on Feb 21, 2012 9:41 AM EST up reply actions   4 recs

$10 tickets…I miss those days of being able to see games in person.

http://actionontheice.blogspot.com/

by Drubert90 on Feb 21, 2012 9:44 AM EST up reply actions   2 recs

Me too. But then again, some of the games weren’t worth seeing…

by kingbonehead on Feb 21, 2012 10:11 AM EST up reply actions  

But, yeah, there’s no need to ship him out. Just wait for the next round of CBA amnesty if that’s your goal. You’ll never get great value for him on the trade market, I suspect.

Please, call me F&B.

by Rob Parker on Feb 21, 2012 9:42 AM EST up reply actions  

What everyone seems to overlook is the bottom line about Ovie; he’s still a talented, skilled, offensive source. Sure, no one can deny that Ovie’s production has dipped dramatically over the last 3 seasons, but he has still been a consistent 30-goal scorer. We shouldn’t jump overboard just because of a few leaks. he might not be the player that he used to be, but he is still a valuable player that we should hold on to.

"By the age of 18, the average American has witnessed 200,000 acts of violence on television, most of them occurring during Game 1 of the NHL playoff series."
-Steve Rushin-

by Penguin Hunter on Feb 21, 2012 4:40 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

Sure, in a vacuum.

Please, call me F&B.

by Rob Parker on Feb 21, 2012 4:49 PM EST up reply actions  

30 goals is all well and good. But not at $9.5MM for 13 years. You can’t ignore the cap hit. The value his on ice production provides does not come close to matching the value his cap hit dictates he should have.

Once you take the fisting element out, it's not romantic anymore.

by Steckel Me Elmo on Feb 21, 2012 4:49 PM EST up reply actions  

Can the Caps not renegotiate his contract? I don’t understand this stuff all too well.

"By the age of 18, the average American has witnessed 200,000 acts of violence on television, most of them occurring during Game 1 of the NHL playoff series."
-Steve Rushin-

by Penguin Hunter on Feb 21, 2012 5:02 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

Contracts aren’t renegotiable in the NHL. If a player is traded, his contract goes with him.

(Yes, I know about the avatar hounding - just pretend mine is invisible.)

by oldemystix on Feb 21, 2012 5:04 PM EST up reply actions  

All contracts are guaranteed; the only way for the Caps to not have the cap hit completely would be to trade him, send him to the minors, or loan him to a European team. None of which are happening. They could buy out his contract but that would be worse than having him. So the Caps are stuck with one of the worst contracts in the league.

Once you take the fisting element out, it's not romantic anymore.

by Steckel Me Elmo on Feb 21, 2012 5:07 PM EST up reply actions  

Unless contract amnesty makes it into the next CBA…..

by discuit on Feb 21, 2012 5:21 PM EST up reply actions  

This could be a hot topic in the offseason CBA agreements, I hope.

"By the age of 18, the average American has witnessed 200,000 acts of violence on television, most of them occurring during Game 1 of the NHL playoff series."
-Steve Rushin-

by Penguin Hunter on Feb 21, 2012 7:09 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

Do not rule out Ovi in the KHL for the last few years of his deal.

That’s not a prediction, but it could happen.

It isn’t even anger-inducing. It does not seem to be worth that kind of emotional investment. It might not even be disappointing any more. It is expected.

-Peerless 5.6.2011

by macvechkin on Feb 21, 2012 5:26 PM EST up reply actions  

I think it depends on how you define buyer/seller. Columbus feels like a somewhat unique situation where 2-3 potential solutions at 2C are likely to be moved at the deadline — Carter, Vermette and Brassard. I would be “buying” one of those guys, but more with a view to the future rather than trying to squeeze in the playoffs this year. I otherwise would be selling guys that don’t fit into the plans for next year. In summary, buy on the 2C and sell the rest.

by Dirk Dangler on Feb 21, 2012 8:53 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

But only if a good deal presents itself and this is a move to get a 2C that will be here for a couple of years, not a rental.

by Gin and Tonic on Feb 21, 2012 12:22 PM EST up reply actions  

Frankly, my worry is that once again, GMGM and Ted will simply say “well, we weren’t healthy” and downplay the roster problems.

"Money talks. I listen."

by apk3000 on Feb 21, 2012 7:40 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

these roster problems have nothing to do with skill or ability. Same core that was #1 in the east 2 years straight plus a goalie on a discount. The problem is leadership, chemistry and coaching…You can win with a Captain making double of what he is earning this year, a sniper making 4x what he deserves this year, and a #1 center on the LTIR.

by SA-Town on Feb 21, 2012 7:45 AM EST up reply actions  

Right, and the worry is that the front office will just say “we’ll just get healthy and try again” making only minor changes that don’t address those chemistry/leadership/coaching/whatever issues.

"Money talks. I listen."

by apk3000 on Feb 21, 2012 7:53 AM EST up reply actions  

The big diference from two/three years ago is A bonafide second line center. I think this is what this team lacks. No Fedorov, Morrison Belanger …

What doesnt kill you makes you stronger.

by BetterOffWith28 on Feb 21, 2012 8:28 AM EST via mobile up reply actions  

Not sure I’d call either Mo or Belanger a 2C. Mo’s production falling off the cliff led to the Belanger trade, no?

"When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro"

by Steve-R on Feb 21, 2012 9:39 AM EST up reply actions  

these roster problems have nothing to do with skill or ability.

While I agree that there are “chemistry” issues, I don’t think you can downplay some of the skill problems on the Caps. They are collectively a terrible group of passers (especially the defense), and the team isn’t particularly fast. What speed there is exists primarily in role players. The biggest issue is that the Caps’ most skilled players either play less-important positions (the Alexs) or are injury prone (Green).

Unleash the Apathy.

by D'ohboy on Feb 21, 2012 9:15 AM EST up reply actions  

They need to go back to school on faceoffs, too.

That'll make your weagle wink!
"You're the boss, apple sauce" - @GreenLife52

by boutros23 on Feb 21, 2012 9:22 AM EST up reply actions  

Losing your #1C will affect that, but yeah, agreed.

Unleash the Apathy.

by D'ohboy on Feb 21, 2012 9:23 AM EST up reply actions  

Don’t worry. Carly was learning to take faceoffs earlier this month.

(Yes, I know about the avatar hounding - just pretend mine is invisible.)

by oldemystix on Feb 21, 2012 11:01 AM EST up reply actions  

The passing has been atrocious, no doubt. I either didn’t appreciate how poor they were in the past, or they’ve regressed horribly, because passing was not one of hte issues that I anticipated would bedevil this team.

I’m also somewhat of the mind that simultaneous down years from most of the roster will make things look worse than they might actually be.

Patron saint of quality footwear.

by fat_daddyo on Feb 21, 2012 9:32 AM EST up reply actions  

Is this really a “down” year though? It’s not as though everyone on the team is having an atrocious year shooting the puck. It’s also not as though the goalies suddenly couldn’t stop a beach ball.

I’m not seeing a whole lotta luck at work here. I’m seeing a bad team.

Unleash the Apathy.

by D'ohboy on Feb 21, 2012 9:35 AM EST up reply actions  

That’s a point I’ve made repeatedly. Yes, they’re collectively underachieving. But the notion that this team is gangsta-stacked is ridiculous.

Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world

by J.P. on Feb 21, 2012 9:39 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

BINGO

We are not nearly as talented as people around the league think.

by brazilianbeast on Feb 21, 2012 12:23 PM EST up reply actions  

They are talented enough that they should be dominating every team in the division.

"By far the worst performers on the (R*dskins) are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins

by smutsboy1 on Feb 21, 2012 12:24 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, the PDO and the shooting pct basically refutes my last point, I understand that.

No scoring from Laich, Knuble, Ward, and Semin is going to be tough to overcome, is basically my point.

Whether it’s because they’re unable to generate chances or because they have some general, group malaise? Both? Dunno.

Patron saint of quality footwear.

by fat_daddyo on Feb 21, 2012 9:40 AM EST up reply actions  

I too noticed poor passing this year...

for the first time in the Ovie era. Too many passes that are a step too far ahead, or a step behind, players fumbling passes—and the other problem is a lack of chemistry and creativity in the offensive end. We’re near the end of the season and these guys play like they’re strangers! Even when Backstrom was healthy, I saw very little chemistry on the top line—very little between him and Ovie. Watch detroit or vancouver—guys are in synch. Not the Caps.

by slipperyice on Feb 21, 2012 12:51 PM EST up reply actions  

When was the last time you saw OVI in on a breakaway? It used to happen every other game.

Ice Breakers>Goal Shakers....THE CAPS !!

by RedRocka on Feb 21, 2012 1:59 PM EST up reply actions  

That’s bullshit. The Canes weren’t healthy last night… They have more injuries than the Caps.

by F1 Billy on Feb 21, 2012 9:57 AM EST up reply actions  

Did Skinner and Staal play?

Please, call me F&B.

by Rob Parker on Feb 21, 2012 10:00 AM EST up reply actions  

Like the Caps, their MVP didn’t play.

Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world

by J.P. on Feb 21, 2012 10:02 AM EST up reply actions  

But Chad LaRose!!!!

"Now fair's fair Henry. If I nail Hotlips and punch Hawkeye, can I go home too?

Now Dropping Bombs at Capitals Outsider

Twitter
Ron and Fez 11 to 3

by YvonLabresMoustache on Feb 21, 2012 10:02 AM EST up reply actions  

They needed minimum 7 and preferably 8 points out of this roadie in order to feel comfortable about the playoffs. I think they’re done.

Patron saint of quality footwear.

by fat_daddyo on Feb 21, 2012 9:00 AM EST up reply actions  

And yet .500 is optimistic.

Please, call me F&B.

by Rob Parker on Feb 21, 2012 9:46 AM EST up reply actions  

And yet .500 on the road gets them into the playoffs, I’d wager.

Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world

by J.P. on Feb 21, 2012 9:47 AM EST up reply actions  

If they can TCOB at home, sure.

Please, call me F&B.

by Rob Parker on Feb 21, 2012 9:49 AM EST up reply actions  

This team has been awful. Maddeningly awful.

And yet, there have been “Have they turned the corner?” moments nearly weekly.

Florida last Friday and the week before. Montreal before that. The Bruins before the break. Etc.

A win tomorrow night could be another one of those moments. Another tease. Or a corner turned.

There’s plenty of opportunity remaining. But they’re making things awfully hard on themselves.

Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world

by J.P. on Feb 21, 2012 9:52 AM EST up reply actions  

Sure are. I still am of the mind that I’ll believe they miss the playoffs when they are mathematically eliminated. It doesn’t really matter to me, though. There’s not a substantial difference (to me) between playing 82 games and playing 87 games.

Please, call me F&B.

by Rob Parker on Feb 21, 2012 9:54 AM EST up reply actions   4 recs

I think there’s a difference, but it’s largely narrative-related – “Ovechkin’s team failed to even qualify for the playoffs” is a different summertime story than “Ovechkin’s team had a down year and was once again summarily dismissed in the post-season.”

Maybe not.

Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world

by J.P. on Feb 21, 2012 9:56 AM EST up reply actions  

“Caps got their choking out of the way early this year.”

Please, call me F&B.

by Rob Parker on Feb 21, 2012 10:00 AM EST up reply actions  

Choking is about the most favorable thing you could say about them, since it implies a reasonably high level of talent.

Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world

by J.P. on Feb 21, 2012 10:01 AM EST up reply actions  

Right, nobody calls CBJ a bunch of chokers!

Please, call me F&B.

by Rob Parker on Feb 21, 2012 10:03 AM EST up reply actions  

Can’t choke if you’re not inherently awesome to begin with!

Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world

by J.P. on Feb 21, 2012 10:03 AM EST up reply actions  

Well it’s not CBJ’s fault they are in the Central. In any other division they’d be considered a successful franchise.

And, if you frame it right, you can call them a successful franchise right now. CBJ is the most successful franchise with 0 playoff games won in their history, in that they aren’t playing in Winnipeg this season.

Please, call me F&B.

by Rob Parker on Feb 21, 2012 10:04 AM EST up reply actions  

CBJ’s underlying numbers are just peachy. Bad luck.

Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world

by J.P. on Feb 21, 2012 10:06 AM EST up reply actions  

That might change soon.

"Now fair's fair Henry. If I nail Hotlips and punch Hawkeye, can I go home too?

Now Dropping Bombs at Capitals Outsider

Twitter
Ron and Fez 11 to 3

by YvonLabresMoustache on Feb 21, 2012 10:06 AM EST up reply actions  

Turn enough corners and you’ll find yourself standing right back where you started from

I used to be a hockey player, but then I took an arrow in the knee

by Icebat on Feb 21, 2012 11:34 AM EST up reply actions  

Not if you’re in Boston.

by RCheli on Feb 21, 2012 11:38 AM EST up reply actions   2 recs

Ha, I was actually up there visiting a girl in November. Met some friends for a drink at a trendy hotel bar (and saw the worst cross-dresser ever, but maybe because I’ve seen so many in austin). I wanted to show her some night spots in cambridge. Damned if we didn’t end up back in the same damn intersection in boston 4 times before I switched on gps

I used to be a hockey player, but then I took an arrow in the knee

by Icebat on Feb 21, 2012 2:29 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

Too true. What a fucked up layout.

Please, call me F&B.

by Rob Parker on Feb 21, 2012 2:33 PM EST up reply actions  

Tell me about it. I drove a taxi there during college.

by morning skate on Feb 22, 2012 2:48 PM EST up reply actions  

The Caps, turning so many corners they’re going in a Nylander.

Proud member of the Popsicle Division of the Cupcake Conference.

by Bman21212 on Feb 21, 2012 11:35 AM EST up reply actions  

They’ll probably TCBY at home instead.

Unleash the Apathy.

by D'ohboy on Feb 21, 2012 9:53 AM EST up reply actions  

Well it’s healthier than Haagen Das.

Please, call me F&B.

by Rob Parker on Feb 21, 2012 9:54 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

It could very well but their road schedule isn’t kind. I don’t think they have even that level of a push in them.

by Langway on Feb 21, 2012 11:12 AM EST up reply actions  

(“Hear, hear”… the more you know.)

Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world

by J.P. on Feb 21, 2012 8:42 AM EST up reply actions   2 recs

Derp. Yeah, I knew better.

by Murshawursha on Feb 21, 2012 8:43 AM EST up reply actions  

Bring up the dude with the wooden stick again.

I believe he has certain…skills that would be useful for this.

http://actionontheice.blogspot.com/

by Drubert90 on Feb 21, 2012 9:19 AM EST up reply actions  

We’ve already got people that watch stuff from the bench.

"My favorite fan base in D.C. is United's. Period. The end." - Steinberg

Fair deal on a lease? Apparently accomplished, though the mission is not complete. Let's Keep United in DC and realize the dream of a stadium with local investment and incentives to US Soccer's greatest club franchise.

by Bald Pollack on Feb 21, 2012 9:22 AM EST up reply actions   3 recs

They watch stuff on the ice, too.

Unleash the Apathy.

by D'ohboy on Feb 21, 2012 9:24 AM EST up reply actions   2 recs

Just saying, well I give Hendy credit for trying last time out, he didn’t lay down the beating I had hoped against Bourque. If not wooden stick (Rechlicz) then at least throw Erskine in that game. Or the dark horse option, Schultz. I think he’s got some pent up rage that needs to be unleashed….

http://actionontheice.blogspot.com/

by Drubert90 on Feb 21, 2012 9:31 AM EST up reply actions  

What’s the Missing Link doing nowadays? Sign him, may as well!

Comrades, leave me here a little, while as yet 't is early morn:
Leave me here, and when you want me, sound upon the bugle-horn

by sydtron on Feb 21, 2012 12:28 PM EST up reply actions  

What about Semin? Everyone forgets the epic bongos.

Proud member of the Popsicle Division of the Cupcake Conference.

by Bman21212 on Feb 21, 2012 4:13 PM EST up reply actions  

Last night was indeed the rock bottom for me. I put 100% of last night’s result on the players nothing less.

When I coached I would always differentiate between physical mistakes and mental mistakes. Physical mistakes are forgivable. Sometimes you’ll fan on a shot or misplay a puck or trip over the blue line. It happens. Mental mistakes are unforgivable from mites through to the NHL.

Last night, the Capitals players made a 60 minute mental mistake.

Nice guys finish first, but sometimes the season is awfully long.
Follow me on Twitter.

by STLSpidey on Feb 21, 2012 8:09 AM EST reply actions   1 recs

I put 100% of last night’s result on the players

I certainly don’t want to absolve the players of anything related to that awful, embarrassing effort, but when you’ve got guys saying, ""We weren’t ready to play," there has to be at least some acknowledgement of a coaching failure, no?

Dale can’t get out there and play for them, but he can prepare them – strategically, emotionally, etc. – and at least part of that preparation clearly didn’t happen prior to last night.

Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world

by J.P. on Feb 21, 2012 8:23 AM EST up reply actions  

I think the coaching failure occured the day he was hired. Love Dale and I think he was put in a tough spot coming in mid-season and trying to switch the defensive system. The system is clearly not one that is either suited for the current roster nor easy to switch to in mid stream. Seems like they could have slowed down the defensive system changes until the offseason and maximized the talents they have now.

Beyond that, not sure how much Dale and the other coaches need to remind the players not to turn the puck over at the blue line, fumble it, pass up shots, etc. The best strategy and emotional prep mean little if the players don’t change their bad habits.

Lets all keep in mind though, that the team is still in contention for a playoff spot and I think as JP pointed out last night, a win against Ottawa means a 500 road trip which is what we all wanted at minimum. I’d rather lose to Carolina and Tampa, teams outside the playoff hunt, than Ottawa.

Just trying to capture the spirit of the thing...

by dcsportsfan1 on Feb 21, 2012 8:41 AM EST up reply actions  

I think the coaching failure occured the day he was hired. Love Dale and I think he was put in a tough spot coming in mid-season …

Agree.

… and trying to switch the defensive system. The system is clearly not one that is either suited for the current roster nor easy to switch to in mid stream. Seems like they could have slowed down the defensive system changes until the offseason and maximized the talents they have now.

Disagree. The personnel that’s here is fine for any system. It’s just not executing. At all. Moreover, the talent that they have here has been vastly overrated. I think blaming the system lets far too much off the hook.

Beyond that, not sure how much Dale and the other coaches need to remind the players not to turn the puck over at the blue line, fumble it, pass up shots, etc. The best strategy and emotional prep mean little if the players don’t change their bad habits.

Agree… in the absence of Brouwer’s quote which expressly addresses their lack of mental preparation.

Lets all keep in mind though, that the team is still in contention for a playoff spot and I think as JP pointed out last night, a win against Ottawa means a 500 road trip which is what we all wanted at minimum. I’d rather lose to Carolina and Tampa, teams outside the playoff hunt, than Ottawa.

Keep hope alive.

Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world

by J.P. on Feb 21, 2012 8:48 AM EST up reply actions  

The vastly overrating the talent point is a good one and really hard to put a finger on. Did the uber performances of the Alexes and Green during the glory years just open things up for everyone else? Or disguise the shortcomings with the rest of the roster? Because really, losing Flash, Fehr, Varly/Theo and adding Alzner, Carlson, Wideman and Vokoun are clear upgrades. I guess the conclusion is “the old young guns just ain’t what they used to be, ain’t what they used to be, ain’t what they used to be …” and that’s the difference?

by Dirk Dangler on Feb 21, 2012 9:00 AM EST up reply actions  

Is that the difference? I think it permeates the entire roster and extends to nearly every player on it.

The big guns haven’t produce and/or haven’t been healthy. (Ovechkin, Backstrom, Green, Semin)

The secondary scorers have gone into hiding. (Laich, Brouwer, Knuble, Chimera, Ward)

The sophomores have struggled. (Carlson, Johansson, Neuvirth)

And so on. There are relatively few players who have met expectations, and none of them, save Vokoun (who has had his own bouts of inconsistency) and perhaps Alzner and Wideman, are real impact players.

Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world

by J.P. on Feb 21, 2012 9:05 AM EST up reply actions  

Part of me feels like all these players in down years is neither a coaching issue or a player issue, but just a whole lot of bad luck/juju or whatever you want to call it. It just isn’t our year

(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
┬─┬ノ( º _ ºノ)

by JediChewbacca on Feb 21, 2012 9:07 AM EST up reply actions  

Agree with everything you said. Just grasping for reasons why a team can fall off of a cliff so badly when “on paper” they look better. I think you nailed it — underperformance by basically an entire roster.

by Dirk Dangler on Feb 21, 2012 9:08 AM EST up reply actions  

The caps have spared fans the spectacle of underachievement in the playoffs. They went right to it in the regular season.

But snark aside, the talent on this team is really quite overrated. Even when healthy it has the look of the Tampa Bay teams right after the lockout — three “talent” forwards (Richards, Lecavalier, St. Louis), an offensive-minded defenseman (Boyle), and really not much else, or players who were in their own ways overrated. The Caps have better top-end goaltending than those teams. TBL squeaked into the playoffs, but didn’t last. Things got ugly for them in short order.

If you've read this far...seek help.

by ThePeerless on Feb 21, 2012 9:16 AM EST up reply actions  

You missed the biggest, most glaring correlation:

An over-priced superstar in decline.

Unleash the Apathy.

by D'ohboy on Feb 21, 2012 9:19 AM EST up reply actions  

His personal production doesn’t concern me as much as some other things. He is past his pull date as a 50-goal scorer, but this is not uncommon for players — even prolific goal scorers — having passed their 25th birthday. What concerns me more is in seeming inability to pull others along even when he is performing well, and he doesn’t seem to have the personality traits to inspire in other ways (he’s not a “talky” captain). I cannot imagine a scenario in which the club seriously entertains a trade for him, and I don’t think an amnesty scenario really has much more juice. The club has invested its marketing soul in Ovechkin, and to change strategy? Things might have to get worse — a lot worse — before anything drastic happens on that score.

If you've read this far...seek help.

by ThePeerless on Feb 21, 2012 9:26 AM EST up reply actions  

Fans back winners.

A team in a salary-cap league that pays $10m/year to a 35G-40A (being generous going forward) wing who plays desultory defense is going to have a tough time assembling a winning roster around him.

Unleash the Apathy.

by D'ohboy on Feb 21, 2012 9:29 AM EST up reply actions  

I watch Ovechkin and think he needs to be locked in a room to watch Rocky III over and over. The whole “eye of the tiger,” “go back to your roots” thing. He is so different a player to see on the ice these days — performance and expression — as to be unrecognizable from the 2005-2009 version. There is something to the “rock star” thing, in my opinion. Too many distractions. Hey, it’s who he is, and he has as much right as anyone to pursue his happiness. But it does look as if there are too many things going on with him that he has as relentless a focus on hockey as some other, more accomplished players these days.

If you've read this far...seek help.

by ThePeerless on Feb 21, 2012 9:37 AM EST up reply actions  

Ovi lost his swagger. It’s not a lack of talent

(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
┬─┬ノ( º _ ºノ)

by JediChewbacca on Feb 21, 2012 9:39 AM EST up reply actions  

Doesn’t look like he’s that happy now…..

I guess he has to hit rock bottom (Like Rocky!) before he changes his ways.

by kovachs on Feb 21, 2012 9:42 AM EST up reply actions  

Where’s Clubber Lang when you need him?

by kingbonehead on Feb 21, 2012 10:15 AM EST up reply actions  

The Stick Incident

I think you can put a tick mark next to almost all commentary on Ovi’s issues (MTL series, lifestyle, prep and so on) but one I don’t hear as often is fragility of his ego, confidence, swagger as bluster. After the stick on fire when he scored his 50th in 2009 the criticism of him also caught fire especially in the Canadian press where they skewered his style, his character, his team play etc. He then had to answer for it time and again and the likes of Cherry and Milbury have never let it go. I honestly believe this is a major factor in his demise. He’s not mature or confident enough to shut out the naysayers and instead internalizes things more than he should. Of course, I’m not in his head so just speculating but body language says more than words and he did start falling off the cliff shortly thereafter.

Oh this young man has had a very trying rookie season, with the litigation, the notoriety, his subsequent deportation to Canada and that country's refusal to accept him...

by Steve47 on Feb 21, 2012 11:46 AM EST up reply actions  

Olie got it right when he talked about Ovie not feeling the love. Ovie was accustomed to being loved and feted. He has been sheltered and pampered a lot (putting aside the Soviet/post-Soviet period of his childhood and loss of his brother). It was a shock to his system when much of the outside love dried up and he has poor coping mechanisms to handle it.

I’m with others who have said he needs a good psycologist. Seeing one helped Greenie a bit. I think it would be beneficial for Ovie too.

(Yes, I know about the avatar hounding - just pretend mine is invisible.)

by oldemystix on Feb 21, 2012 12:24 PM EST up reply actions  

Olie got it right when he talked about Ovie not feeling the love. Ovie was accustomed to being loved and feted.

Lately he’s just been fetid.

Once you take the fisting element out, it's not romantic anymore.

by Steckel Me Elmo on Feb 21, 2012 12:53 PM EST up reply actions  

You make a great point: Ovie does not make...

others on the team better, as most really great players do. Whether it is his cherry-picking offensive style, his personality, work ethic—something is wrong. And it probably doesn’t help that Semin, our other star player, is very quiet. Not to bash the Russians, but there might be something there.

I also think hiring Hunter was a terrible move. Coaches need to communicate effectively and motivate/inspire—those are more important qualities than one’s “system.” Hunter quite obviously is not a good communicator with the media—he sort of stumbles around and doesn’t even like it—and my bet is that he doesn’t communicate very well with the team either. And he obviously had zero nhl coaching experience. Teams either respond to new coaches or they don’t.

by slipperyice on Feb 21, 2012 1:01 PM EST up reply actions  

Ovie made Dainus Zubrus and Chris Clark look like legitimate first-line NHLers…

by Murshawursha on Feb 21, 2012 1:09 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

What do you mean by “making others better”?

He inflates his linemates’ point totals, and even if he doesn’t today as much as he did four years ago, he still probably does.

He can still create opportunities off a standard pass better than almost anyone else on this team, which makes those passes look great.

He can still set up his linemates near the net, even if his passes tend to be too hard. He still takes plenty of shots which helps net-crashers, though far from the historic totals we’re used to.

He still takes attention on the rush, opening space for his linemates and a D jumping into the rush, if any.

Red Line Station and @RedArmyLine, featuring coverage of the most frustrating team in the NHL
I believe in next year.

by red army line on Feb 21, 2012 1:15 PM EST up reply actions   3 recs

I like the last point best. Although I think we disagreed once before on my following idea, I still believe the old system was fine (offense, offense, offense) if each line had a stay at home, tough as nails d-man to cover for the puck rushing d-man AND the forwards were mentally tough enough to crash the net for the rebounds. That was the flaw I saw in the MTL series – few players willing to go to the hard areas consistently – rather than a lack of a defensive system or a hot goaltender. I would just say water under the bridge except I think it’s in that system where Ovi thrives and this is where I see your last point.

Oh this young man has had a very trying rookie season, with the litigation, the notoriety, his subsequent deportation to Canada and that country's refusal to accept him...

by Steve47 on Feb 21, 2012 2:37 PM EST up reply actions  

Ah, net-crashers. The proliferation of goalie interferece calls is going to make that role less rewarding.

(Yes, I know about the avatar hounding - just pretend mine is invisible.)

by oldemystix on Feb 21, 2012 2:55 PM EST up reply actions  

Yes, as NHL caliber players, the d men should be able to play any system and I agree, the biggest problem is execution. But, I think you impact the ability to properly execute by switching systems mid-season. Goes to your point (and by others) that the time to make the move would have been over the summer.

But given the need to make a change, GMGM and Dale should have perhaps slow played the big switch. I may be wrong, but was the defense the biggest problem when BB got canned on or was it creating shots and goaltending?

Just trying to capture the spirit of the thing...

by dcsportsfan1 on Feb 21, 2012 9:16 AM EST up reply actions  

Well Ottawa has been our slump-busters for a few years now…

by dcrothman on Feb 21, 2012 9:40 AM EST up reply actions  

Not with you this morning JP.

At this level, I am hard pressed to blame Hunter. These players have to go out and play their hardest and show heart and they didn’t. I believe this is on the players.

Nice guys finish first, but sometimes the season is awfully long.
Follow me on Twitter.

by STLSpidey on Feb 21, 2012 9:06 AM EST up reply actions  

The Caps are in a hard place with respect to Hunter. If they commit to him, but only for next year, are they going to undertake the kind of significant retooling of the roster they will need to make them more nimble (and intelligent) in their own end and develop a “Hunter” mentality? If the Caps don’t, and they sink further next year, do they let Hunter go? Then what?

The Caps have done the accountability thing on the ice. They switched coaches, they have benched players (though arguably not all the ones who might merit some quiet time). They can’t be in the position of moving checkers around a chess board thinking they’re going to win at Parcheesi. It might be time for a more complete spring cleaning if this season blows up. This bunch has had quite a while to move the needle on achievement and hasn’t done it.

If you've read this far...seek help.

by ThePeerless on Feb 21, 2012 9:20 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

How many times can we go to the “we weren’t up for this/ready for this” well before questioning the character of the men on this team? It was heard under BB and is still alive and well; be ready or get the fuck out of town.

It isn’t even anger-inducing. It does not seem to be worth that kind of emotional investment. It might not even be disappointing any more. It is expected.

-Peerless 5.6.2011

by macvechkin on Feb 21, 2012 4:58 PM EST up reply actions  

Carolina, to their credit, came out flying and continued to fly for a full 60 minutes. I hadn’t seen them in a bit and was quite surprised as to how fast they were playing – as were the Caps apparently.

It's not that I hate people, I just seem to feel better when they're not around - Hank Chinaski

by Edanger6 on Feb 21, 2012 5:12 PM EST up reply actions  

Rock Bottom for me was Steckel’s breakaway goal in the Leafs game, although that Sabres game runs a close second, mostly because I got the stomach flu during that game.

This is pretty close, but what makes me feel (somewhat) better is that if the Jets lose tonight, the Caps will be in the EXACT SAME SPOT on Wednesday with a chance to take the division lead again. They just can’t keep blowing these chances again and again, because the other teams are just letting them hang around. That’s not going to keep happening forever.

"Now fair's fair Henry. If I nail Hotlips and punch Hawkeye, can I go home too?

Now Dropping Bombs at Capitals Outsider

Twitter
Ron and Fez 11 to 3

by YvonLabresMoustache on Feb 21, 2012 8:29 AM EST up reply actions  

Did you hear the slogan for the T-Shirts this year?

2011-12 Capitals: Treading Water to the Promised Land

Please, call me F&B.

by Rob Parker on Feb 21, 2012 10:01 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

They just can’t keep blowing these chances again and again,

I bet they can, unfortunately.

Once you take the fisting element out, it's not romantic anymore.

by Steckel Me Elmo on Feb 21, 2012 10:03 AM EST up reply actions  

They must really like those chances.

"Now fair's fair Henry. If I nail Hotlips and punch Hawkeye, can I go home too?

Now Dropping Bombs at Capitals Outsider

Twitter
Ron and Fez 11 to 3

by YvonLabresMoustache on Feb 21, 2012 10:03 AM EST up reply actions   3 recs

Is this the Rock Bottom where you can at least get a decent buzz on some craft brews?

Please, call me F&B.

by Rob Parker on Feb 21, 2012 9:47 AM EST up reply actions  

0000

"Now fair's fair Henry. If I nail Hotlips and punch Hawkeye, can I go home too?

Now Dropping Bombs at Capitals Outsider

Twitter
Ron and Fez 11 to 3

by YvonLabresMoustache on Feb 21, 2012 9:51 AM EST up reply actions  

Getting clearer by the game that even though we are only a point or two out of the playoffs we are several players and an attitude away from winning in the playoffs. Time to:
-sit Nicky for the rest of the year
-trade away any player that is not going to be re-signed which I think means Wideman, Knuble, Vokoun and Semin. While they may not get asmuch value as desired, any pick is better than no pick
-trade away any player that clearly does not fit on the team if the value is there. I include Schultz, johansson and whomever GMGM feels is no longer in the plans
-after trading Vokoun bring up Holtby and figure out if either of them can be depended on to be the #1 going forward. I think it’s Holtby which probably means trading Neuvirth and bringing on a more veteran back up.

While the team will finish weaker, weaker means better positioning in a strong draft.

And free beer. Lots of free beer for fans still showing up at Verizon. That’s about the only way I can make it to anger game after last night’s farce on ice.

by Jamesrd on Feb 21, 2012 8:25 AM EST reply actions  

Though it’s not a strong draft….

That'll make your weagle wink!
"You're the boss, apple sauce" - @GreenLife52

by boutros23 on Feb 21, 2012 8:26 AM EST up reply actions  

I think there are mixed views on that. Going into the season, I think many experts felt this was one of the deepest drafts in a long time. It does seem though that the group has lost a little of it’s luster. Maybe injuries to several prospects? Not sure but a would agree that it isn’t as clear of a deep draft as originally thought.

by Dirk Dangler on Feb 21, 2012 9:02 AM EST up reply actions  

I disagree on Semin and the goalies. Semin is starting to build a little more value. A salary dump would not be the best move right now. Unless you get a phenomenal deal, closer to what you’d get if he had been playing to his level all season long, then you should trade him now. That deal won’t come, so you aren’t risking much by waiting until the offseason when you can re-sign him (if he’ll take less money) to see what he could do with a real 2C or you trade him while his value has stayed relatively the same. The market will calm down if Nash makes it to the offseason. Many teams won’t be able to get him and they know it. Semin presents a good alternative.

As for the goalies, I agree you should trade Vokoun, especially of the season is done, but I disagree that you should trade Neuvy and that Holtby is your #1 going into next year. Nothing about his play this year suggests that he should be #1. He hasn’t had to work for it in the NHL. Neuvy and Holtby should be 1a/1b next year. The goalie market is always filled with talent. The problem is, a team with serious cap problems and lots of players to re-sign (Green, Carlson) needs all the money it can get. Holtby and Neuvy are $1.7 million together and very young. I would rather not go with more rental players. I think that was one of the problems with this team in the last few years. Goal is an area in which we don’t have a huge problem. There’s average play and then there’s abysmal play. I’m confident the two young goalies can do very well, and if GMGM can’t solve the problems with depth at center and defense, it will matter less and less who is in net.

by jopierce on Feb 21, 2012 9:00 AM EST via iPhone app up reply actions  

Frankly I’d like to see if GMGM can get a deal done with Vokoun for one/two years at a reasonable cap hit. If not, he (or his successor) will clearly be looking for vet help during the summer.

by Dirk Dangler on Feb 21, 2012 9:03 AM EST up reply actions  

Why would Vokoun give a break on his salary demands to a mediocre team? Not going to happen.

by kovachs on Feb 21, 2012 9:09 AM EST up reply actions  

He’ll be 36 this summer and while he’s had a good year, it’s very similar to what he did in FLA and didn’t get the deal he wants. I agree he probably wants out of this shit show but I’d explore it. I could see him move to Tampa in the off season though. Closer to the family, and with a goalie, probably ahead of the Caps at this point.

by Dirk Dangler on Feb 21, 2012 9:16 AM EST up reply actions  

Of course the team should explore it, but I see no reason for him to choose the Caps over other Mediocre teams. He came to the Caps because he thought they were a contending team.

by kovachs on Feb 21, 2012 9:21 AM EST up reply actions  

I don’t see why Vokoun would settle for less money when he’s had a great year. He’s not in it for the long haul anymore. He only has a few years left to make a serious run for the Cup and he does not have time to wait for the Caps to figure things out. He could make more money elsewhere. And without knowing his financial situation, I think it makes sense that if you’re going to retire by 38, you need to make as much money as you can while the money is good so you and your family can live off that while you consider alternate career options after retirement.

by jopierce on Feb 21, 2012 9:22 AM EST via iPhone app up reply actions  

What makes you think Semin would take less money if he hasn’t done so yet?

Please, call me F&B.

by Rob Parker on Feb 21, 2012 10:10 AM EST up reply actions  

What makes you think he was presented with a take-it-or-leave-it offer of less money?

Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world

by J.P. on Feb 21, 2012 10:10 AM EST up reply actions  

Well I think it’s obvious that it wasn’t “take-it-or-leave-it” but didn’t the quotes that came out indicate that Semin was the one that wanted the one year term? Maybe I’m mis-remembering, but I thought the signs all suggested that GMGM had a multi-year deal on the table, presumably for lower AAV (though I guess you never know…). If Semin was open to the idea of taking less money to ensure a spot on this team long term, I find it hard to believe he wouldn’t have already had that option.

Please, call me F&B.

by Rob Parker on Feb 21, 2012 10:14 AM EST up reply actions  

I think your recollection is right, but I also don’t think the team has ever come as close to being ready to part ways with him as they are right now, so they can truly put an offer on the table that suits their needs and which they wouldn’t be devastated if he walked away from.

Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world

by J.P. on Feb 21, 2012 10:20 AM EST up reply actions  

That’s fair too.

Please, call me F&B.

by Rob Parker on Feb 21, 2012 10:23 AM EST up reply actions  

Why would you consider moving MoJo?

Please, call me F&B.

by Rob Parker on Feb 21, 2012 10:09 AM EST up reply actions  

MoJo has been massively disappointing as of late, and arguably for the season. He was supposed to be our 2C, and maybe that was too much of him to ask. How is the guy still this horrible at faceoffs? He seems to lose every board battle. I’m not ready to give up on him, but if he’s part of a package that gets us some top-6 talent in return, I might be for it.

by dcrothman on Feb 21, 2012 11:21 AM EST up reply actions  

I heartily recommended this comment by clicking upon the “rec” button to indicate my explicit endorsement of the opinions expressed within.

Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world

by J.P. on Feb 21, 2012 11:25 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Agree. He’s playing like garbage now, but it’s way too early to completely bail on him.

That being said, if he’s the linchpin in a deal to acquire a no-shit #2C, I’d think about moving him. I don’t think I would have said that a year ago, but I’m increasingly less convinced of his ability to play as a top-2 center.

Unleash the Apathy.

by D'ohboy on Feb 21, 2012 11:32 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

I wouldn’t have a problem moving him in a deal for a no-shit #2C (assuming we’re talking Carter type, i.e. really a 1b). I’m sick and fucking tired of this issue remaining unresolved.

Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world

by J.P. on Feb 21, 2012 11:35 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Agreed, and if he’s not a top-2C then he wouldn’t seem to fit the traditional “grinder” mindset of a 3C on this team, unless they’re going to change identities of the bottom 2 lines.

In that case, he might be a good fit along one of the wings next season.

by Kolzilla on Feb 21, 2012 11:35 AM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, sure, for a no-shit 2C. That’s not how I read that comment though. (And is he really likely to be a lynchpin in that kind of deal?) I just don’t see why he should, ex ante, be on the “not in future plans” list.

Please, call me F&B.

by Rob Parker on Feb 21, 2012 11:36 AM EST up reply actions  

I agree with your last sentence. Regarding the first, it is often said that a “young roster player” is needed in the better deals. Leaving aside Matty P or Beagle (b/c they won’t get anything done), I think MarJo is the most sparable good young roster player we have to include in a meaningful deal (Carlzner obviously stays but I’m at the point where Orlov stays for me over MarJo).

by Dirk Dangler on Feb 21, 2012 12:07 PM EST up reply actions  

I’m wondering if he ends up like Kyle Turris, in that his development program was so screwed up that he never reaches his potential here. He should have been in Hershey last year, learning to play Top 6 minutes and adjusting to the North American game. Instead, he’s been consistently used in roles that he isn’t ready for.

I am a hockey fan first, and a Caps fan second.

by iwearstripes on Feb 21, 2012 11:45 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Great comment. And that’s on GMGM. He prefers to force young players into roles they are not ready for than signing cheap veterans to do the dirty work.

Example: forcing Eakin into 4th line duties instead of signing guys like Asham or others to do the job while the youngster develops in Hershey.

It’s like WSH forgot how they had such a success developing guys like Alzner, Neuvirth, Carlson, etc.

by brazilianbeast on Feb 21, 2012 12:55 PM EST up reply actions  

It’s like WSH forgot how they had such a success developing guys like Alzner, Neuvirth, Carlson, etc.

Of course, that method required accepting (embracing?) being a less than spectacular team. I’m not sure it’s GMGM, or Uncle Ted who’s grown impatient, but someone isn’t doing the right things to build the best team long-term.

I am a hockey fan first, and a Caps fan second.

by iwearstripes on Feb 21, 2012 1:29 PM EST up reply actions  

Agreed. But to be honest, I think that’s mainly on GMGM.

by brazilianbeast on Feb 21, 2012 1:47 PM EST up reply actions  

You had to mention Asham. Ick.

(Yes, I know about the avatar hounding - just pretend mine is invisible.)

by oldemystix on Feb 21, 2012 2:57 PM EST up reply actions  

Damn y’all, the original question was why would you consider moving MoJo. I said I’m not ready to give up on him…

by dcrothman on Feb 21, 2012 12:51 PM EST up reply actions  

Was it?

-trade away any player that clearly does not fit on the team if the value is there. I include Schultz, johansson and whomever GMGM feels is no longer in the plans

“if the value is there” is a bit of a weasel term, but it wasn’t a question, it was a course of action.

Please, call me F&B.

by Rob Parker on Feb 21, 2012 12:55 PM EST up reply actions  

Your questions was

Why would you consider moving MoJo?

by dcrothman on Feb 21, 2012 12:56 PM EST up reply actions  

And seeing as it wasn’t the primary comment on that topic, it’s not “the original question.”

If you want to get all technical, you would “consider” moving every single player on the roster, including Backstrom. Realistically, there are guys you don’t consider moving. Even more to the point, the comment that I responded to explicitly talks about MoJo as a guy that doesn’t fit on the team.

Please, call me F&B.

by Rob Parker on Feb 21, 2012 12:59 PM EST up reply actions  

Sorry to cause confusion. The intent was to say I would move him for the right deal. I agree it may be too early to give up on him but if we wait to find out, he may have little value. As a one time believer that he would fill our 2nd C role, I am skeptical now. He’s a pretty big mess right now and doesn’t appear to have the right make up for 3rd or 4th line C. Maybe move him back to wing although I never liked that much.

If you want talent you have to trade talent. Right now I hope GmGm is open to moving him to someone who is betting on his potential more than he thinks he actually has.

by Jamesrd on Feb 21, 2012 6:36 PM EST up reply actions  

The intent was to say I would move him for the right deal.

I think all of us would move anyone on this team for the right deal, honestly. What sort of deal would you move him for?

Red Line Station and @RedArmyLine, featuring coverage of the most frustrating team in the NHL
I believe in next year.

by red army line on Feb 21, 2012 8:26 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

No, he’s young, cost controlled, and has upside. Those are the sort of players you need to hold onto in my opinion.

by Gunjin on Feb 21, 2012 12:24 PM EST up reply actions  

but also the type that you sometimes need to trade to get something good in return.

by kingbonehead on Feb 21, 2012 1:12 PM EST up reply actions  

Not sure if I agree with some stuff like trading Wideman or Knuble, but I’m not going to argue.

All I know is that I’d streak through the Phone Booth pants down with an “I love Crosby” shirt to keep Vokoun. It’s nice to know that even though he has a few sloppy goals, I feel like he’s the most reliable goalie overall that we’ve had since Kolzig. Theo was dependable and stole a few games, but I just think it’s nice to have a borderline elite goalie for once.

by Brainumbc on Feb 21, 2012 11:02 AM EST up reply actions  

Lack of Chemistry?

I know that in my pathetic attempts at playing hockey that “chemistry” seems to be so important in this sport. When I am on the ice (playing defense, typically) I can tell which players I have “chemistry” with because I instinctively know where they are the majority of the time. With other partners, I feel like I am second guessing and double checking to determine if they are where I think they are and in a sport like hockey, fractions of a second can make all the difference between succeeding in a pass/play and not.

So my question to those of you who have played more and at higher levels, does “chemistry” become more important as you climb the skill ladder or less important? It seems to me it would be more so because the speed and decision making time would demand it.

Although I understand the need for coaches to arrange lines to obtain the proper skill sets (and to break bad habits that players can get into with one another) on the ice, I always wonder about the non-stop shuffling. It seems to me that it reduces that “chemistry” build up that can come with playing with the same partners over and over. BB would sometimes drive me crazy with the shuffling of lines. I don’t think DH has been doing it as much as BB but maybe I am wrong.

I do think the defense has been a little out of whack since Green came back but I also believe it should only take a handful of games before that settles down and the benefits of Green’s style will begin to show.

So, I guess my root question is:

Is “chemistry” important in the NHL and, if so, are the Caps missing it?

by BBinLP on Feb 21, 2012 8:38 AM EST reply actions   4 recs

When I am on the ice (playing defense, typically) I can tell which players I have "chemistry" with because I instinctively know where they are the majority of the time. With other partners, I feel like I am second guessing and double checking to determine if they are where I think they are and in a sport like hockey, fractions of a second can make all the difference between succeeding in a pass/play and not.

There’s another word for that: “Coaching.”

Chemistry exists, I think, but it’s impact is far overblown and often used as an inarguable trump card that proves itself. “The Bruins won because they had better Chemistry.” Yeah… and a record setting goaltending performance. “Chemistry” is often used in place of “lots of talent” and “good coaching.”

Please, call me F&B.

by Rob Parker on Feb 21, 2012 10:12 AM EST up reply actions  

Agreed – “chemistry” is one of those nebulous catch-alls to lazily explain the good or the bad.

Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world

by J.P. on Feb 21, 2012 10:15 AM EST up reply actions  

I think a big part of what we call “chemistry” is players that are equally committed to playing the system. You get comfortable with certain guys because you know where they’ll be on the ice. If you’re all sticking to the system, everyone should know have a good general idea of where their linemates are at any given time.

I am a hockey fan first, and a Caps fan second.

by iwearstripes on Feb 21, 2012 10:52 AM EST up reply actions  

And I’m still at a loss as to what Hunter’s system is. Especially on offense.

I also cannot discern any progress towards either end between Hunter’s first game and now.

"By far the worst performers on the (R*dskins) are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins

by smutsboy1 on Feb 21, 2012 10:54 AM EST up reply actions  

There were some sparks in the SJS, FLA and TB games. I’ve seen flashes of something that looks like a viable offensive system, but it’s not there with any consistency.

Unleash the Apathy.

by D'ohboy on Feb 21, 2012 10:55 AM EST up reply actions  

I agree. There are periods/games where I got my hopes up, only to see no lasting effects over the next few games.

Culminating in last night’s debacle against an utterly bad team.

"By far the worst performers on the (R*dskins) are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins

by smutsboy1 on Feb 21, 2012 10:56 AM EST up reply actions  

against the Preds, at home, too.

by brazilianbeast on Feb 21, 2012 1:00 PM EST up reply actions  

I buy that, but think it’s more about the game-planning, buy-in and discipline (none of which would fit a traditional definition of “chemistry”) and less about something like “they just have a sense and know where the other’s going to be!”

Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world

by J.P. on Feb 21, 2012 10:58 AM EST up reply actions  

Couldn’t agree more with that JP – based on being in the building last night and seeing passes constantly go to empty spaces.

How much of this can be put on coaching and the constant line shuffling? It seems like the guys are coming to the rink these days with no idea who their linemates are going to be. I can’t count how many times last night I saw a clever pass be met with a Hurricane because the Capital the pass was intended for wasn’t there – that’s not necessarily lack of effort. Hockey is a game of inches, and when you’re skating with different linemates every night (and often not even consistently through an entire game), how do you build that chemistry? The early part of the season, everyone was singing the praises of the Laich/Chimera/Ward line – they couldn’t be stopped. That line was shutting down the opposing teams’ top lines and putting in offense of its own. It meshed well and complimented itself.

Obviously part of the line shifting has to do with Backstrom gone, but other than him, has there been significant personnel changes? Why isn’t that line together anymore? I think I’ve seen 850 different combinations in the last two games, and that’s not one of them.

Don’t get me wrong – the effort last night was disastrous and the collective hockey IQ of the skaters wearing white was somewhere south of the current temperature in Wowota, Saskatchewan, but is DH32 putting these guys in the best position to win?

by STLEdge on Feb 21, 2012 11:41 AM EST up reply actions  

I think the most “telling” thing for me last night was the complete lack of speed the Caps showed relative to Carolina. That set off all sorts of alarm bells for me, because while you can fix systems, coaches, etc., you can’t “fix” athleticism, at least easily.

"Now fair's fair Henry. If I nail Hotlips and punch Hawkeye, can I go home too?

Now Dropping Bombs at Capitals Outsider

Twitter
Ron and Fez 11 to 3

by YvonLabresMoustache on Feb 21, 2012 8:43 AM EST reply actions  

Which is funny, because GMGM has been preaching speed for the last 2-3 years (with Laich, GMGM said his speed was the big factor, Chimera and Johannsen also clearly speed first guys, Kuz has great speed, etc.). I wonder if it wasn’t “speed” as much as it was “desire.” I think the Caps team speed is pretty good when they’re going, but playing at 3/4 speed makes them look pretty slow.

by Dirk Dangler on Feb 21, 2012 9:06 AM EST up reply actions  

Maybe it’s because their breakouts are so goddamn terrible that everything gets turned to mudd in the neutral zone?

"Now fair's fair Henry. If I nail Hotlips and punch Hawkeye, can I go home too?

Now Dropping Bombs at Capitals Outsider

Twitter
Ron and Fez 11 to 3

by YvonLabresMoustache on Feb 21, 2012 9:07 AM EST up reply actions  

IMO, you saw a team (guess which one) who was playing with nothing to lose and another team which was playing scared and squeezing their sticks. One team skating fast and loose and the other team trying not to crap their pants.

You give up a bit of a weak goal early on and those sticks get tighter. You give up another and it’s full on panic time. Third goal in the last minute of the period and it’s time for a diaper change.

Just trying to capture the spirit of the thing...

by dcsportsfan1 on Feb 21, 2012 9:21 AM EST up reply actions  

the diapers weren’t securely fastened, which explains the crap all over the ice…

(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
┬─┬ノ( º _ ºノ)

by JediChewbacca on Feb 21, 2012 9:23 AM EST up reply actions  

I spend a decent amount of time watching the Avalanche, and the difference between the two teams in overall speed is shocking. Mind you, the Avs employ Paul Stastny, Ryan O’Byrne, and Shane O’Brien – not guys who are exactly renowned as speedsters.

Outside of Chimera and Johansson, this is a pretty slow team. Ah, for the days when Mike Green could still skate without his innards trying to escape.

Unleash the Apathy.

by D'ohboy on Feb 21, 2012 9:23 AM EST up reply actions   2 recs

Laich, Ovechkin, Carlson, Wideman, Semin, Perreault…all those guys have decent NHL speed, no?

Patron saint of quality footwear.

by fat_daddyo on Feb 21, 2012 9:36 AM EST up reply actions  

Decent, yes, but if these are your top end guys (at least those not named “Chimera”), their team speed lags some other teams.

If you've read this far...seek help.

by ThePeerless on Feb 21, 2012 9:39 AM EST up reply actions  

Sure. And as pointed out downthread, a common remark from opposing announcers this year has been that the Caps are a slow team.

Patron saint of quality footwear.

by fat_daddyo on Feb 21, 2012 9:44 AM EST up reply actions  

Not one of those guys is markedly above average (and I’d say Wideman is below average, to be honest).

Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world

by J.P. on Feb 21, 2012 9:39 AM EST up reply actions  

I will say that Wideman is looking better over the last few months than he did to start the season. His skating was god-awful in October/November/December. He finally looks like he’s recovered from his thigh injury.

Still, not fast.

Unleash the Apathy.

by D'ohboy on Feb 21, 2012 9:44 AM EST up reply actions  

Definitely. Somehow his point totals have tricked people into thinking he’s got speed. Maybe if he really did have an extra pair of legs he’d go faster.

Please, call me F&B.

by Rob Parker on Feb 21, 2012 9:52 AM EST up reply actions  

Well, so much of his production has come on the PP, which is probably the deceiver – people see “D with points” and assume he’s a puck-rusher.

And while we’re on Wideman… what the fucking hell was that dive to try to keep the puck in the zone on the PP last night?

Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world

by J.P. on Feb 21, 2012 9:54 AM EST up reply actions  

I have no idea. Literally. I didn’t watch the game as I was busy pursuing my own triumphant return.

Please, call me F&B.

by Rob Parker on Feb 21, 2012 9:55 AM EST up reply actions  

Oh, do be sure to check it out. It’s Staal’s shorty.

You’ll also love the second goal (focus on 90 and 52).

And the first (watch 29).

Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world

by J.P. on Feb 21, 2012 9:57 AM EST up reply actions  

I’d be more interested in hearing about Jeff Carter hanging out with Staal’s shorty.

Please, call me F&B.

by Rob Parker on Feb 21, 2012 10:13 AM EST up reply actions   2 recs

Wideman was screaming for MoJo to pass it along the boards. Mojo’s pass was not only not on the board’s, but off the mark (and soft)….but not dive-worthy off the mark. 50/50 blame?

by dcrothman on Feb 21, 2012 10:14 AM EST up reply actions  

Definitely some shared blame, but Wideman has to be in a position where he can make the play no matter where the puck is (within reason). But he was like a third baseman that got caught on his heels or leaning the wrong way, and then made one awful, awful decision.

Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world

by J.P. on Feb 21, 2012 10:17 AM EST up reply actions  

Ya, deciding to dive there to try and keep the puck in was definitely an all-or-nothing play. He needs to make a better decision there.

I don't want to work, I want to hang on the blog all day.

by cainoo7x on Feb 21, 2012 10:18 AM EST up reply actions  

Really, it was almost a nothing-or-nothing play – even if he gets a stick on it, Staal is hard-charging and probably gets the puck.

Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world

by J.P. on Feb 21, 2012 10:21 AM EST up reply actions  

When I said all-or-nothing, I was thinking along the lines of the play will either work, or it will fail in spectacular fashion with no middle ground. Nothing-or-nothing is a better description of that play’s actual chances for success, however.

I don't want to work, I want to hang on the blog all day.

by cainoo7x on Feb 21, 2012 10:26 AM EST up reply actions  

No frigging clue what 90 thought he was doing in that second goal. That was something that would make a Mite coach crazy.

Patron saint of quality footwear.

by fat_daddyo on Feb 21, 2012 11:01 AM EST up reply actions  

As I remarked on Twitter:

And, much like you always leave a note, that’s why you don’t dive for a puck kids.

"Now fair's fair Henry. If I nail Hotlips and punch Hawkeye, can I go home too?

Now Dropping Bombs at Capitals Outsider

Twitter
Ron and Fez 11 to 3

by YvonLabresMoustache on Feb 21, 2012 9:57 AM EST up reply actions  

That’s when I had to stop watching. Broke my heart.

by KSR17 on Feb 21, 2012 9:58 AM EST up reply actions  

The caps are one of the biggest and heaviest teams in the league right now. It’s not a coincidence.

by brazilianbeast on Feb 21, 2012 1:03 PM EST up reply actions  

Caps, big and heavy, but not thuggish. Slow but meek. Sounds like a champion roster to me.

Proud member of the Popsicle Division of the Cupcake Conference.

by Bman21212 on Feb 21, 2012 4:19 PM EST up reply actions  

Even if we were to trade for some players this team would not last in the playoffs. I think we should just count this one as a lost season and just wait till next year. It would be nice if we could get rid of some of the dead weight and just bring up some players from the AHL to REALLY see what we have. With 2 first round pics and some prospects in the AHL we could make some decent trades and go from there. I’d like to see what Hunter could do with players that can actually play the game and actually care!

by Caps Fan since 84 on Feb 21, 2012 9:10 AM EST reply actions  

I think it’s pretty hard to advocate throwing in the towel this season. Sure, the team looks like crap when they’re bad, and it seems like when they do win, they get a lead then hold on for dear life. That being said, they’re chasing Florida, Winnipeg, and Toronto. None of these teams strike fear into me, and despite their flaws as a team, it wouldn’t be crazy to think they could string a few wins together and overtake 2 of those teams.

Still, I think GMGM needs to focus on clearing cap space and giving himself some room to not necessarily rebuild, but reload for next year. Don’t give away players for pennies on the dollar that could help you sneak into the playoffs, but if you get a substantial offer for someone on an expiring deal, it needs to be accepted. In addition, if he can get anything for Ward or Hamrlik to get their contracts off the books, do it. Hamrlik has played better since Hunter’s arrival, but he, along with Ward, aren’t guys that are essential to making this team a winner moving forward, and even for this season.

After this year’s performance, I think that it’s become a little more evident that GMGM’s roster building wasn’t as strong as initially perceived. This is why I say this deadline and offseason are going to be huge for him if he wants to keep his job. His hire of Dale Hunter and the firing of Boudreau are separate issues. Bruce needed to go, and I’m even less confident in Dale’s coaching abilities at this level. McPhee said something along the lines of “coaching experience is coaching experience, no matter the level,” during Hunter’s introductory press conference. I wish I could remember the exact quote, but this is crap. The game is different when dealing with 18 year old boys, and grown men. The stakes are higher, the talent is better, and the overall style is different, so just because GMGM is very convincing when he speaks, doesn’t mean everyone should buy his BS.

Watching this team, there is no system. Dale has been here nearly two months and the team looks just as lost as his first day on the job. He isn’t utilizing the players to their strengths, and I don’t think you can make enough changes to this roster to bring in guys who play “Hunter” hockey. The problem doesn’t need to lie with either the players or the coach, it can fall on both. The players haven’t performed well all year, but whatever this style of hockey is that Hunter is preaching is crap. The stat guys on this board have shown that it doesn’t matter what players are out there, nobody can win consistently playing his style of hockey.

by UMDTerps3 on Feb 21, 2012 9:40 AM EST up reply actions  

God it’s painful to watch them try and leave the zone. Yes, that has quite the effect on the Caps being able to utilize their speed. I’d add that even after a year plus of playing more dump and chase hockey, they are terrible at dumping in for a winger coming with speed. Maybe it’s because most dump ins are for changes after getting hemmed in their own zone, but it drives me crazy the number of times they bang the puck around away from the charging winger, or are going sideways on the blue line during the dump in.

by Dirk Dangler on Feb 21, 2012 9:12 AM EST reply actions  

whoops, reply fail to YLM

by Dirk Dangler on Feb 21, 2012 9:12 AM EST up reply actions  

Maybe a lot of that has to do with the fact that they’re one of the slower teams in the league (if you buy what opposing coaches are saying).

Please, call me F&B.

by Rob Parker on Feb 21, 2012 9:27 AM EST up reply actions  

I think w/ NB19 they have a fast group up front, but any team with 55 and 44 on the back line is going to be slow overall.

Just trying to capture the spirit of the thing...

by dcsportsfan1 on Feb 21, 2012 9:28 AM EST up reply actions  

NB19 isn’t particularly fast.

Unleash the Apathy.

by D'ohboy on Feb 21, 2012 9:29 AM EST up reply actions  

He got faster from last year to this year, that’s for sure.

That'll make your weagle wink!
"You're the boss, apple sauce" - @GreenLife52

by boutros23 on Feb 21, 2012 9:32 AM EST up reply actions  

Is that snark related to yesterday’s Ups and Downs comments? If so, bravo.

Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world

by J.P. on Feb 21, 2012 9:37 AM EST up reply actions  

Haha, unintentional. I wish I were that clever.

That'll make your weagle wink!
"You're the boss, apple sauce" - @GreenLife52

by boutros23 on Feb 21, 2012 10:00 AM EST up reply actions  

No, but he compensates for it by being ridiculously smart and talented with the puck. He slows the game to his own pace.

Please, call me F&B.

by Rob Parker on Feb 21, 2012 9:39 AM EST up reply actions  

No disagreement there whatsoever. He’s still not “fast” though.

MoJo is fast, but he’s constantly out of sync with the game.

Unleash the Apathy.

by D'ohboy on Feb 21, 2012 9:45 AM EST up reply actions  

Too Fast For Love?

Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world

by J.P. on Feb 21, 2012 9:46 AM EST up reply actions  

He’s a hot mess right now. Literally nothing goes right with the puck on his stick.

Patron saint of quality footwear.

by fat_daddyo on Feb 21, 2012 9:47 AM EST up reply actions  

“Literally nothing?” He hasn’t killed a girl.

Please, call me F&B.

by Rob Parker on Feb 21, 2012 9:50 AM EST up reply actions  

I can’t imagine how bad Espen Knutsen feels about that. Though it did go off of Morris’ stick.

Once you take the fisting element out, it's not romantic anymore.

by Steckel Me Elmo on Feb 21, 2012 9:58 AM EST up reply actions  

That is a story I wish I hadn’t just googled.

If wishes were horses, we'd all be eating steak.

by Hang a Laingtern on Your Problems on Feb 21, 2012 1:54 PM EST up reply actions  

Hah. He hasn’t plumbed the farthest depths of bad outcomes, true, but he always seems to cough the puck up when he has it, or make a bad decision about where to take it, and when he has a shot he either blows it or decides to pass when he should shoot, etc.

Culminating with that disaster on CAR’s second goal last night.

Patron saint of quality footwear.

by fat_daddyo on Feb 21, 2012 11:06 AM EST up reply actions  

Not to mention last night’s “Quicksand” third line with Hendy and 22 on the wings.

by Twenty Seven Ninety on Feb 21, 2012 9:50 AM EST up reply actions  

BTW, i though Vokoun showed some good speed getting down the runway after he was yanked.

Just trying to capture the spirit of the thing...

by dcsportsfan1 on Feb 21, 2012 9:29 AM EST up reply actions   3 recs

I hadn’t heard that from opposing coaches. Interesting.

by Dirk Dangler on Feb 21, 2012 9:30 AM EST up reply actions  

League-wide, the Caps are not seen as a “fast” team.

Unleash the Apathy.

by D'ohboy on Feb 21, 2012 9:36 AM EST up reply actions  

I get that, just didn’t hear of any attribution to opposing coaches (other than how they attack the Capitals).

by Dirk Dangler on Feb 21, 2012 9:52 AM EST up reply actions  

Ron Wilson said it (or was credited as saying it when we played the Leafs).

Please, call me F&B.

by Rob Parker on Feb 21, 2012 9:54 AM EST up reply actions  

MON’s broadcast team also attributed the same remark to one of their assistants, who remained anonymous.

Patron saint of quality footwear.

by fat_daddyo on Feb 21, 2012 11:07 AM EST up reply actions  

As did NYI’s.

Please, call me F&B.

by Rob Parker on Feb 21, 2012 11:10 AM EST up reply actions  

The speed is spread out through the lineup. Doesn’t a 28/90/25 line qualify as “speedy”? Granted that’s putting all your eggs in one basket, but they were skating as the second line last night, weren’t they?

by STLEdge on Feb 21, 2012 11:43 AM EST up reply actions  

Sure, they have fast players, but the team as a whole is not that fast.

Please, call me F&B.

by Rob Parker on Feb 21, 2012 11:44 AM EST up reply actions  

and speed can refer more to how the team advances the puck rather than individuals’ straight line speed without the puck. chimera might beat everyone in a race, but if he can’t do it with the puck it doesn’t help that much with the team speed.

by Ginga on Feb 21, 2012 2:26 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

the team speed we do have routinely overskates the puck or loses it before getting a shot away (Mojo and Ovi). The problem with the team speed is coherency through the neutral zone. We don’t have to be lightning fast, but some quick coordinated skating through center ice into the o-zone would be wonderful

(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
┬─┬ノ( º _ ºノ)

by JediChewbacca on Feb 21, 2012 9:31 AM EST up reply actions  

I think they are/seem slower because they aren’t playing up to their speed potential. Their up tempo games have been the exception instead of the norm this year.

(Yes, I know about the avatar hounding - just pretend mine is invisible.)

by oldemystix on Feb 21, 2012 11:18 AM EST up reply actions  

That was the worst. That is defense 101 — get the puck out of your zone by making the safest and most effective first pass. That did not happen, and you can’t blame that on team speed (their own or their opponent’s).

by RCheli on Feb 21, 2012 10:16 AM EST up reply actions  

Can someone please tell me why the Caps STOPPED skating once they hit the offensive blue line? EVERY player EVERY time would start coasting once they hit the blue line and started telegraphing a pass and then BOOM…turnover. Utterly painful.

by dcrothman on Feb 21, 2012 9:16 AM EST reply actions  

As JP says...

As presently constituted, this is not a playoff team. Now DH may feel, and I truly believe he thinks this, that his system will prevail IF they get into the playoffs. And he may have a paradigm that will succeed – but they aren’t playing with that fluidity and grace that was characteristic of this team the last few years.
It’s striking that at the start of the season, even with the influx of new faces, the chemistry looked, well, perfect, on paper. But we have guys who have now played for years with each other who cannot get their shit together. Really painful to watch.
My guess is, that GMGM makes at least one major move before the deadline so he can say he tried – his ass is on the line anyway. Semin for Suter or Weber? Could happen, and bring some desperately needed leadership here.

by S h a g g y on Feb 21, 2012 9:42 AM EST reply actions  

There are a lot of things that “could” happen. You could even win the lottery tomorrow. Semin for Suter or Weber is not in the category of things that “could” happen.

by kovachs on Feb 21, 2012 9:46 AM EST up reply actions   2 recs

What in the Caps’ play over the past few months suggests that the playoffs will be a success? They will not be facing backup goalies with the frequency they have faced them so far (24 times in 59 games), and will not be facing bottom-feeders. They are 8-6-2 under Dale Hunter against teams in the East currently playoff eligible (4-3-1 with Backstrom, 4-3-1 without).

If you've read this far...seek help.

by ThePeerless on Feb 21, 2012 9:49 AM EST up reply actions  

What in the Caps’ play over the past few months suggests that the playoffs will be a success?
They are 8-6-2 under Dale Hunter against teams in the East currently playoff eligible

Just get in and the Cup is ours!

Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world

by J.P. on Feb 21, 2012 9:50 AM EST up reply actions  

0000
Just get in and the Cup is ours!

"Now fair's fair Henry. If I nail Hotlips and punch Hawkeye, can I go home too?

Now Dropping Bombs at Capitals Outsider

Twitter
Ron and Fez 11 to 3

by YvonLabresMoustache on Feb 21, 2012 9:53 AM EST up reply actions  

he chose…poorly

If you've read this far...seek help.

by ThePeerless on Feb 21, 2012 9:57 AM EST up reply actions  

Absolutely. This team is clearly lightning in a bottle just ready to explode!

by Dirk Dangler on Feb 21, 2012 9:54 AM EST up reply actions  

We know we’ve hit rock-bottom when someone emails me and asks how does it feel to be a fan of the Capskins. The Washington Capitals is supposed to be everything the Redskins aren’t: winners and champions. And that ‘friend’ is right. We’ve become the Capskins, the laughing stock of the league. When we can’t beat a lower team that is riddled with injuries and who is playing their third goalie, then we obviously have a problem.

This quote from Rachel Green from the TV sitcom “Friends” kind of summarizes how I, and I’m sure all of the Caps faithful, feel:

“Ya know I really thought I had hit rock bottom, but today it’s like there’s rock bottom, then 50 feet of crap then me.”

by F1 Billy on Feb 21, 2012 10:03 AM EST reply actions  

I don’t think it’s THAT dire yet.

For example, the Caps have made the playoffs in the last five years.

"Now fair's fair Henry. If I nail Hotlips and punch Hawkeye, can I go home too?

Now Dropping Bombs at Capitals Outsider

Twitter
Ron and Fez 11 to 3

by YvonLabresMoustache on Feb 21, 2012 10:05 AM EST up reply actions  

Number of times advancing in the playoffs since 1998:

Capitals: 2.

Redskins: 2.

Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world

by J.P. on Feb 21, 2012 10:07 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

0000

"Now fair's fair Henry. If I nail Hotlips and punch Hawkeye, can I go home too?

Now Dropping Bombs at Capitals Outsider

Twitter
Ron and Fez 11 to 3

by YvonLabresMoustache on Feb 21, 2012 10:11 AM EST up reply actions  

Ouch.

Lethal.

"By far the worst performers on the (R*dskins) are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins

by smutsboy1 on Feb 21, 2012 10:12 AM EST up reply actions  

at least the skins are on the right track again.

can you say that about the caps right now? I don’t think so. We look lost as a franchise, considering our philosophy, coaching, etc.

by brazilianbeast on Feb 21, 2012 1:14 PM EST up reply actions  

The Washington Capitals is supposed to be everything the Redskins aren’t: winners and champions.

Only one of those teams has ever been a winner and a champion, and they’ve done it multiple times. I’d trade current relative statuses with the Skins if histories were also swapped.

Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world

by J.P. on Feb 21, 2012 10:05 AM EST up reply actions  

I’d trade current relative statuses with the Skins if histories were also swapped.

This is a topic of its own. Skins had fun 20 years from 72-92, but last 20 has been pretty rough-and 1992 is so long ago you can barely remember the good times. Stanley cups might be fun to remember, though, and would be nice to see something in rafters besides Southeast Division Champions…

Caps this season feels like Skins have for past 20 years. Looks good on paper, but can’t seem to play. Need new coach/new position ‘x’, new offensive system, new defensive system… Ugh.

by kingbonehead on Feb 21, 2012 10:10 AM EST up reply actions  

The Skins have no looked good on paper, even one iota, in the past 20 years. The Caps have looked amazing on paper.

by feeya7 on Feb 21, 2012 10:32 AM EST up reply actions  

More like the discussion about rock-bottom between Walon and Bubbles.

Please, call me F&B.

by Rob Parker on Feb 21, 2012 10:07 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Nice.

Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world

by J.P. on Feb 21, 2012 10:07 AM EST up reply actions  

When Ottawa Senators commentator Denis Potvin suggested Detroit director of pro scouting Mark Howe and Florida Panthers scout Peter Mahovlich were in attendance for Monday’s Sens-Islanders game to eye Isles hulking 6-foot-4, 253-pound defenceman Milan Jurcina, Howe and Mahovlich broke into wry grins while refusing to verbally acknowledge Povin’s suggestion.

Potvin later was informed that Isles defenceman Mark Eaton has asked for a trade and likely is in play too.

Link

That'll make your weagle wink!
"You're the boss, apple sauce" - @GreenLife52

by boutros23 on Feb 21, 2012 10:07 AM EST reply actions  

Mark Eaton?! We can finally get that top 4D we’ve needed so desperately!

Please, call me F&B.

by Rob Parker on Feb 21, 2012 10:08 AM EST up reply actions  

Eaton’s not very good, but for a contender, he’s the kind of veteran defensman you want. He can fill in anywhere if there’s an injury, and can play 10-12 minutes without being a disaster.

by RCheli on Feb 21, 2012 10:21 AM EST up reply actions  

Stop selling him short. He’s a solid top 4. Better than whatever the Caps are trotting out there.

Please, call me F&B.

by Rob Parker on Feb 21, 2012 10:24 AM EST up reply actions  

I don’t think he’s a top 4 any more. He’s 34 and fragile. Since the lockout he’s averaged around 50 games a season.

But I’d much rather have him on my team than, say, Tomas Kaberle or Joe Corvo (especially when you look at the salaries between them).

by RCheli on Feb 21, 2012 10:28 AM EST up reply actions  

Milan Jurcina is a lot of things, but I’m not sure I’d call him “Hulking”.

The Caps have to get Mark Eaton, if only to secure the fan base in Delaware.

"Now fair's fair Henry. If I nail Hotlips and punch Hawkeye, can I go home too?

Now Dropping Bombs at Capitals Outsider

Twitter
Ron and Fez 11 to 3

by YvonLabresMoustache on Feb 21, 2012 10:12 AM EST up reply actions  

Disagree – “hulking” is exactly what Juice is. He’s easily the broadest-chested hockey player I’ve ever seen in person.

Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world

by J.P. on Feb 21, 2012 10:17 AM EST up reply actions  

I’d call him more “Lurching” than “Hulking”.

"Now fair's fair Henry. If I nail Hotlips and punch Hawkeye, can I go home too?

Now Dropping Bombs at Capitals Outsider

Twitter
Ron and Fez 11 to 3

by YvonLabresMoustache on Feb 21, 2012 10:20 AM EST up reply actions  

Meaning “chest most like a broad’s” I take it.

Please, call me F&B.

by Rob Parker on Feb 21, 2012 10:24 AM EST up reply actions  

His torso is something. I just got lost in a GIS for a bit.

That'll make your weagle wink!
"You're the boss, apple sauce" - @GreenLife52

by boutros23 on Feb 21, 2012 10:26 AM EST up reply actions  

Perky Pecs.

(Yes, I know about the avatar hounding - just pretend mine is invisible.)

by oldemystix on Feb 21, 2012 11:21 AM EST up reply actions  

Chris Clark joked that Juice looked like an extra from “300” back in the day

www.wiseadvertising.com

Because now I can justify browsing and commenting during the work day with the argument that I am promoting my business.

by Sombrero Guy on Feb 21, 2012 5:44 PM EST up reply actions  

If Juice and his amazing minus 26 went to Detroit, the taunting would never cease.

Pledge Drive 2011-2012: CARSON KOLZIG FOUNDATION! Season Pledge total--$1328.52!

by RedBirdie on Feb 21, 2012 11:16 AM EST up reply actions  

Game by game, Dale Hunter is turning into an unmitigated disaster.

_

"By far the worst performers on the (R*dskins) are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins

by smutsboy1 on Feb 21, 2012 10:14 AM EST reply actions  

I feel like I’m defending DH32 all the time, but I really think that any expectations of a dramatic turn around in 2011 were misplaced. That just doesn’t happen. Changing coaches mid-season is akin to a white flag.

You truly can’t judge until next season. I’m a broken record on this, yes, but I believe it’s true.

Nice guys finish first, but sometimes the season is awfully long.
Follow me on Twitter.

by STLSpidey on Feb 21, 2012 10:15 AM EST up reply actions  

Here’s a question.

Not saying it necessarily needs to happen, but has a team ever changed coaches TWICE in a season?

"Now fair's fair Henry. If I nail Hotlips and punch Hawkeye, can I go home too?

Now Dropping Bombs at Capitals Outsider

Twitter
Ron and Fez 11 to 3

by YvonLabresMoustache on Feb 21, 2012 10:17 AM EST up reply actions  

Oh God. Starting the fire DH bandwagon a bit early, no?

Nice guys finish first, but sometimes the season is awfully long.
Follow me on Twitter.

by STLSpidey on Feb 21, 2012 10:18 AM EST up reply actions  

No, not saying that. Just wondering if it’s ever happened.

Honestly, I don’t even think it’s an option. If they want to change again, just let his contract expire at the end of the season and move on.

"Now fair's fair Henry. If I nail Hotlips and punch Hawkeye, can I go home too?

Now Dropping Bombs at Capitals Outsider

Twitter
Ron and Fez 11 to 3

by YvonLabresMoustache on Feb 21, 2012 10:21 AM EST up reply actions  

Caps had three coaches in 1974-1975 and three coaches in 1981-1982

If you've read this far...seek help.

by ThePeerless on Feb 21, 2012 10:24 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Make it 4!

Proud member of the Popsicle Division of the Cupcake Conference.

by Bman21212 on Feb 21, 2012 11:47 AM EST up reply actions  

I feel like I’m defending DH32 all the time, but I really think that any expectations of a dramatic turn around in 2011 were misplaced. That just doesn’t happen. Changing coaches mid-season is akin to a white flag

I don’t think I’d go that far, but I do think that the expectation of Hunter – a coach with no NHL or AHL coaching experience – adapting quickly enough to the NHL were misplaced (if anyone had such expectations).

Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world

by J.P. on Feb 21, 2012 10:19 AM EST up reply actions  

I expected Hunter to struggle but also show signs of life.

Is there a single positive development we can point to under his tenure?

"By far the worst performers on the (R*dskins) are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins

by smutsboy1 on Feb 21, 2012 10:21 AM EST up reply actions  

Haven’t given up a goal from center ice in the last two games?

"Now fair's fair Henry. If I nail Hotlips and punch Hawkeye, can I go home too?

Now Dropping Bombs at Capitals Outsider

Twitter
Ron and Fez 11 to 3

by YvonLabresMoustache on Feb 21, 2012 10:22 AM EST up reply actions  

Yes. He’s moved from one tie and one shirt and one suit to an ensemble.

Nice guys finish first, but sometimes the season is awfully long.
Follow me on Twitter.

by STLSpidey on Feb 21, 2012 10:22 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Sure – his calm demeanor seems to resonate with the team (regardless of what the results might indicate). Case in point, Friday night in Florida – Knuble’s goal gets waved off and yet they come back from that and win. If Bruce is behind the bench there, he probably has an aneurysm and the team predictibly implodes.

Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world

by J.P. on Feb 21, 2012 10:23 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Perhaps, then, the biggest test of Coach Hunter’s tenure is how his team will respond in the next game versus Ottawa.

by dcrothman on Feb 21, 2012 10:26 AM EST up reply actions  

meh, the boudreau caps had plenty of come from behind performances. his manic persona was different than hunter’s, but not necessarily worse in and of itself.

by Ginga on Feb 21, 2012 10:28 AM EST up reply actions  

The players tend to disagree. Boudreau’s near-manic persona wore thin.

Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world

by J.P. on Feb 21, 2012 10:31 AM EST up reply actions  

Right, but that’s after 4 years behind the bench.

by RCheli on Feb 21, 2012 10:31 AM EST up reply actions  

Right, and a change from that has been a welcome one. That’s all I’m saying.

Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world

by J.P. on Feb 21, 2012 10:37 AM EST up reply actions  

I’d be more inclined to accept that as true if the performances of the players whom have been here that whole time had reflected a willingness to grow and adapt.

Just because one coach yelled at you the first 700 times you made a mistake doesn’t mean the new coach who doesn’t yell at you for the same thing the next 300 times, is automatically a good thing.

Country Gentlemen's Pig Fertilizer Gazette
Dunny-on-the-World

by Boggles on Feb 21, 2012 11:55 AM EST up reply actions  

Like I said, I wasn’t making a judgment on whether it’s a good thing or a bad thing (though I believe it to be the former, for now), just noting that the players welcome it, and not just because they don’t like getting yelled at.

Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world

by J.P. on Feb 21, 2012 12:02 PM EST up reply actions  

Did he damage the team beyond recognition? Players in disagreement with the coach, then what . Are they un-coachable? A welcome change. Probably most, maybe all the changes that Dan Snyder makes are welcome changes … to him.

by Ahberg on Feb 21, 2012 10:39 AM EST up reply actions  

No and maybe.

And not sure what Snyder has to do with anything.

Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world

by J.P. on Feb 21, 2012 10:42 AM EST up reply actions  

Sorry about the obscurity and Snyder.

What I meant by that was that the coaching change (BB-DH) was a ‘welcome’ change for those who were invested in the change – as I’m sure the changes from someone who makes a lot a lot of changes (and Mr. Snyder is my poster person for this) are welcome changes to that person.

My sub text is that I think BB was not the problem – the team was (and is). So the players can welcome changes, but welcoming changes may not make for a better hockey team.

Maybe they were tired of BB and would not respond to him anyway, anyhow. Maybe now they are tired of DH and have shut him off too. So they need the ‘perfect’ coach for their sensibilities. Tail wagging the dog.

by Ahberg on Feb 21, 2012 11:21 AM EST up reply actions  

All fair points (and also points that go to something I mentioned in last night’s recap, namely that regardless of whether DH is the right guy for the job or BB is the greatest coach since Toe Blake, his time here was up and his continued coaching in DC was untenable).

Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world

by J.P. on Feb 21, 2012 11:23 AM EST up reply actions  

When it’s time to change, then its time to change
Don’t fight the tide, come along for the ride, don’t you see

by kingbonehead on Feb 21, 2012 1:17 PM EST up reply actions  

I’m not sure you can extrapolate that. There are a ton of very vocal coaches, one of whom has the best record in the East right now.

by RCheli on Feb 21, 2012 10:28 AM EST up reply actions  

If that’s the best we can do, I remain seriously concerned for Hunter’s potential as an NHL coach.

"By far the worst performers on the (R*dskins) are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins

by smutsboy1 on Feb 21, 2012 10:29 AM EST up reply actions  

Is he too calm? I was expecting a bit more focused fire in his coaching personality. Calm when needed, inspiration when needed.

As for the waived off goal, it was nice seeing the coach hold it together behind the bench, but his meh response after the game was a bit deflating. Questioning the call, especially with the penalty on top of it would have been good support of the player and an indication to the league that something was right about the decision making of the ref/how the incident is being called in games.

(Yes, I know about the avatar hounding - just pretend mine is invisible.)

by oldemystix on Feb 21, 2012 11:30 AM EST up reply actions  

I was in your camp until the past few weeks.

But this team is losing in large part b/c of effort, lack of identity, and seemingly lack of focus.

That’s coaching.

They’re not losing because the roster is horribly mismatched. I mean, what is the offensive strategy even supposed to be?

"By far the worst performers on the (R*dskins) are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins

by smutsboy1 on Feb 21, 2012 10:19 AM EST up reply actions  

As I wrote above, I’m concerned about the heart of the players right now. I’ve never questioned that before, but I’m starting to wonder. I don’t know how much of last night is on Hunter. I think the players bear nearly all the responsibility for their current performance.

Mini-mites need to be motivated. HS players need to be motivated. NHL players shouldn’t need to be.

Nice guys finish first, but sometimes the season is awfully long.
Follow me on Twitter.

by STLSpidey on Feb 21, 2012 10:21 AM EST up reply actions  

This team’s struggles go way beyond motivation.

And reality is that even pro athletes need leadership & motivation from their coach.

"By far the worst performers on the (R*dskins) are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins

by smutsboy1 on Feb 21, 2012 10:22 AM EST up reply actions  

But motivation has to mean something for the players who otherwise should know professionally how to play as a team. If, for example, Boudreau’s “time was over” in DC, what does it say about the team. He might be on pace for another Adams.

“It’s nice to get to the 60-point plateau, because then you can at least see the guys in the distance. We always believed that we’re there. We don’t really care what anybody else thinks about it. As long as we believe we’re there, we’re OK.” — Anaheim coach Bruce Boudreau

by Ahberg on Feb 21, 2012 10:26 AM EST up reply actions  

This team’s struggles go way beyond motivation.

"By far the worst performers on the (R*dskins) are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins

by smutsboy1 on Feb 21, 2012 10:28 AM EST up reply actions  

What do you mean by “identity”?

Which teams have it? Which don’t? What are those identities?

Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world

by J.P. on Feb 21, 2012 10:24 AM EST up reply actions  

defense-first
hard-working
high-flying high-scoring
tough

I mean, jesus even Boudreau’s Caps at least had an identity.

The Rangers. The Bruins.

From OFB, as linked above:

You watch John Tortorella’s Rangers night in and night out and you know the caliber and quality and character of play you’re almost certain to see. The Blueshirts don’t play a pretty game of hockey, but they do play cohesively, with extraoridnary selflessness, a style conspicuously embodied by their captain, and most especially they play a style of regular season hockey well suited to the transitional demands of postseason hockey. I give the Rags a ton of credit: though they were bested twice by the Capitals in the postseason in the span of just three years, they weren’t much intimidated by those results, and they believed themselves capable of surpassing the Caps in short order.

They have.

George McPhee has spent the past four or five years simply drafting the best available talent he could from entry draft positions which seldom deliver bluechip talent — the byproduct of successive years of regular season success. He applied no blueprint whatsoever to the selections, no overarching roster composition philosophy. Glen Sather and John Tortorella, blessed already by the presence of one of the planet’s finest goaltenders, took a much different approach, seeking to assemble size and grit and character — the very traits any coach most would want for his club in the postseason — most particularly on the blueline. The Rangers today are infinitely closer to a Stanley Cup than are the Capitals, and given the Rags’ precocious youth on the blueline, that may be the case for some years.

"By far the worst performers on the (R*dskins) are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins

by smutsboy1 on Feb 21, 2012 10:27 AM EST up reply actions  

jesus even Boudreau’s Caps at least had an identity

Yeah, they won a Presidents’ Trophy.

The three teams you’ve named – Boudreau’s Caps and the Rangers and Bruins – include the last two Eastern Conference regular season champs and the two that could finish there this year. Coincidence?

Identity is a narrative that gets attached to winning teams and the lack thereof blamed for the shortcomings of losing teams.

Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world

by J.P. on Feb 21, 2012 10:30 AM EST up reply actions  

“identity”
“strategy”
“tactics”

use whatever euphemism you want.

this team is flailing out there every night. and I can’t see that it’s gotten one iota better between Hunter’s first game and last night.

"By far the worst performers on the (R*dskins) are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins

by smutsboy1 on Feb 21, 2012 10:32 AM EST up reply actions  

Well, one of those three things is an amorphous, narrative-based tag and the other two are actual elements of game-planning. There’s a difference.

Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world

by J.P. on Feb 21, 2012 10:38 AM EST up reply actions  

I prefer to use identity somewhat interchangeably with strategy when it comes to hockey.

Unleash the Apathy.

by D'ohboy on Feb 21, 2012 10:39 AM EST up reply actions  

well, then it’s good for my argument that I mentioned a whole host of problems under Hunter, not just identity.

"By far the worst performers on the (R*dskins) are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins

by smutsboy1 on Feb 21, 2012 10:41 AM EST up reply actions  

The “identity” of a team is the characters by which you can identify a team. I don’t know why you think it’s such a faulty thing.

I know the word is often swung around as “what this winning team looks like” or “how this championship team is a championship team” but “identity” is an extremely useful way to compare or judge teams.

Soon the Championship with be ours, all ours!

by kingzman264 on Feb 21, 2012 4:20 PM EST up reply actions  

Identity is extremely important, and very real. It’s a “catch-all” term, but it embodies a lot of things, such as chemistry, strategy and even heart. Its how Peyton won with the god-awful Colts team. Its how Eli, who is honestly a terrible QB, wins with the Giants. Its how the Pens keep winning despite missing their best player for over a year and having intermittent injuries to their other stars. Identity allows James Neal to come in and light the league on fire. You lose one guy, another guy and step in, because he knows exactly what to do, and does it.

The Caps don’t have that right now.

by feeya7 on Feb 21, 2012 10:42 AM EST up reply actions   2 recs

Peyton won with identity or by being the best QB in the league? Unless by “identity” you mean “having the best QB in the league.”

Please, call me F&B.

by Rob Parker on Feb 21, 2012 10:43 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

What if the Colts had attempted to run the ball on 1st and 2nd down every offensive series?

Unleash the Apathy.

by D'ohboy on Feb 21, 2012 10:46 AM EST up reply actions  

Not sure where you’re going, but when teams tried to drop 10 guys into coverage Peyton routinely audibled to a run.

Please, call me F&B.

by Rob Parker on Feb 21, 2012 10:47 AM EST up reply actions  

Yes, this is identity: Peyton runs the offense his way, and everyone buys in. No complaining if you don’t get enough touches on the ball. No crying if he doesn’t throw to you enough. He speaks, you listen, win game. Why do you think hes having trouble finding a new team? Cause other teams don’t want to “give him” the offense.

by feeya7 on Feb 21, 2012 10:48 AM EST up reply actions  

Or he’s old, expensive, and has a badly fucked up neck. Either/or.

Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world

by J.P. on Feb 21, 2012 10:49 AM EST up reply actions  

Or 4 neck surgeries in a year. One or the other.

You think there aren’t 20+ teams that would hand the keys to a healthy Peyton?

Please, call me F&B.

by Rob Parker on Feb 21, 2012 10:49 AM EST up reply actions  

He’s not having trouble finding a new team. It’s just a messy divorce from the Colts that’s not finalized.

by discuit on Feb 21, 2012 10:51 AM EST up reply actions  

My point is that successful strategies/identities use their assets wisely.

I don’t think the Caps’ current strategy/identity uses their assets wisely.

Unleash the Apathy.

by D'ohboy on Feb 21, 2012 10:53 AM EST up reply actions  

So identity is “coaching?”

Please, call me F&B.

by Rob Parker on Feb 21, 2012 10:55 AM EST up reply actions  

For me, it’s a combination of coaching and roster management.

Unleash the Apathy.

by D'ohboy on Feb 21, 2012 10:57 AM EST up reply actions   2 recs

Disagree. Everything you’ve identified is the result of excellent game-planning and/or roster management.

Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world

by J.P. on Feb 21, 2012 10:44 AM EST up reply actions  

We may be having a semantic argument at this point. But I can’t understand why many here are so against this concept of identity. Its not like we just made it up, and I don’t think its something that gets assigned to great teams “post-hoc” as you are suggesting. Its WHY teams are great teams, we just often don’t recognize it until they’ve won.

by feeya7 on Feb 21, 2012 10:55 AM EST up reply actions  

So – what is the identity of the Columbus Blue Jackets? The Pittsburgh Pirates? The University of Maryland football team?

If you lose, do you automatically have no identity?

Nice guys finish first, but sometimes the season is awfully long.
Follow me on Twitter.

by STLSpidey on Feb 21, 2012 10:56 AM EST up reply actions  

Pirates- Enjoys selling off their best prospects when they start showing signs of being able to compete.

by RossingtonCollins on Feb 21, 2012 10:58 AM EST up reply actions  

I know you are being snarky, but that’s not an identity. That’s a management philosophy.

Nice guys finish first, but sometimes the season is awfully long.
Follow me on Twitter.

by STLSpidey on Feb 21, 2012 11:00 AM EST up reply actions  

Of course not. You can lose and still have an identity. And I don’t know enough about those teams to tell you anything. Also, you can win and not have much of an identity, just incredible talent, too. Identity is part of the equation, but more often there than not with good teams.

by feeya7 on Feb 21, 2012 11:01 AM EST up reply actions  

I think it’s arguable that CBJ’s problems are, in part, due to a disconnect between their briefly successful identity under Hitchcock and their roster moves.

(Not to take away from just how poorly they’ve been at acquiring and developing talent.)

But seriously, who looked at Nik Zherdev and Nik Filatov and thought they’d ever, EVER last under Hitch?

Unleash the Apathy.

by D'ohboy on Feb 21, 2012 11:04 AM EST up reply actions  

So – what is the identity of the Columbus Blue Jackets? The Pittsburgh Pirates? The University of Maryland football team?

Witness Protection Program?

If you've read this far...seek help.

by ThePeerless on Feb 21, 2012 2:18 PM EST up reply actions   2 recs

The Animals?

"Now fair's fair Henry. If I nail Hotlips and punch Hawkeye, can I go home too?

Now Dropping Bombs at Capitals Outsider

Twitter
Ron and Fez 11 to 3

by YvonLabresMoustache on Feb 21, 2012 2:25 PM EST up reply actions  

we just often don’t recognize it until they’ve won

So it’s there, we just don’t see it until we’re trying to explain how and why things went well.

So… any reason to think that the Caps have an identity that isn’t readily apparent yet, but is just waiting to be discovered retrospectively after they rattle off a few wins?

Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world

by J.P. on Feb 21, 2012 11:00 AM EST up reply actions  

No, no reason to think that Caps have an identity right now. I’m saying that they don’t have one. I think they did have one, back in 08 when they won the presidents trophy. They were run n’ gun. Everyone knew it. Right now, I don’t know what they “do”, but thats probably because they aren’t “doing” anything. Cept losing 0-5 to other bad teams.

by feeya7 on Feb 21, 2012 11:04 AM EST up reply actions  

If they win the Cup, they’ll be described as a plucky group of players who struggled through some down times only to find their identity at the end of the regular season and the playoffs.

God know what that identity will be. Depends on the narrative, I guess? :-)

Nice guys finish first, but sometimes the season is awfully long.
Follow me on Twitter.

by STLSpidey on Feb 21, 2012 11:04 AM EST up reply actions  

described as a plucky group of players who struggled through some down times only to find their identity at the end of the regular season and the playoffs

This is narrative.

Boston having a roster with Lucic, Chara, McQuaid, Thornton, and Horton isn’t narrative. It’s what the B’s do. They fuck with you, knowing full-well that you won’t want to fuck back, because Lucic or Chara will beat the fuck out of you.

I don’t think that alone is why they won the Cup – getting historically amazing goaltending helps – but I do think that having a solid idea of who your team is and how you play as a group is important.

Unleash the Apathy.

by D'ohboy on Feb 21, 2012 11:23 AM EST up reply actions  

I didn’t claim it was anything other than narrative. Identity will be foisted on the Caps, if they win.

I still think identity comes from within, not from outside.

So, only good teams have an identity? Sorry for asking the same question over and over.

Someone started this by saying the Caps have no identity. Can you have an identity and not be successful? Seems like the answer is no.

Nice guys finish first, but sometimes the season is awfully long.
Follow me on Twitter.

by STLSpidey on Feb 21, 2012 11:26 AM EST up reply actions  

No, I think bad teams can have identities. Minnesota is a good example. I think Colorado also has an identity.

I will say, however, that consistently poor teams never seem to have a solid image of what they are, or what they’d like to be.

Unleash the Apathy.

by D'ohboy on Feb 21, 2012 12:19 PM EST up reply actions  

Hey, full credit to boston, but i also think they...

were helped by the fact that the western conference big dogs beat up on each other pretty seriously before the finals.

by slipperyice on Feb 21, 2012 8:14 PM EST up reply actions  

I agree with you that the current Caps are lacking identity; however, I would say it isn’t why teams are great teams. An identity helps a team stand out, allows people to quickly define them and their system. An identity can help a team be successful because parts can be found that fit the image the team has created and plugged in with relative ease. (The Red Wings are one of the best at doing this.)

The Caps identity is undergoing change. Whether it had to undergo such a big shift is another question. It’s identity is muddled and its roster now seems to contain players for two different identities/systems. The harmony and predictability of the “run-and-gun” years is gone. What will/can replace it remains a question. (Frankly, I think BB was on the right track with a hybrid system – an offensive team with more defensive responsibility fit more of the players than anything done this year.

(Yes, I know about the avatar hounding - just pretend mine is invisible.)

by oldemystix on Feb 21, 2012 11:52 AM EST up reply actions  

a team with excellent game-planning and/or roster management maintains that identity as a well maintained team.

Soon the Championship with be ours, all ours!

by kingzman264 on Feb 21, 2012 4:21 PM EST up reply actions  

You still think Eli is a bad QB?

by RossingtonCollins on Feb 21, 2012 10:45 AM EST up reply actions  

He wears the wrong laundry, so yes.

Please, call me F&B.

by Rob Parker on Feb 21, 2012 10:47 AM EST up reply actions  

Absolutely. He is terrible. He gets WAY too much credit for how completely solid, up and down, offensively and defensively, the Giants are. Peyton is the entire colts organization. Eli is just along for the ride with the Giants.

by feeya7 on Feb 21, 2012 10:50 AM EST up reply actions  

This is a joke, right? (And OT, but whatever.)

by RCheli on Feb 21, 2012 10:51 AM EST up reply actions  

Alright, we can take the rest of the football discussion elsewhere…

Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world

by J.P. on Feb 21, 2012 10:51 AM EST up reply actions  

I agree with the Giants being a solid team on both sides of the ball, but out-dealing Brady twice on the biggest stage in football doesn’t

by RossingtonCollins on Feb 21, 2012 10:51 AM EST up reply actions  

sorry, tried to cancel but clicked post instead.

by RossingtonCollins on Feb 21, 2012 10:52 AM EST up reply actions  

Did everybody forget that the Rangers missed the playoffs just 2 years ago? Shit happens.

by dcrothman on Feb 21, 2012 10:36 AM EST up reply actions  

Or that for all that “identity” they haven’t won a single playoff series under Torts?

Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world

by J.P. on Feb 21, 2012 10:39 AM EST up reply actions  

To me OFB is a frontrunner opinion. Now the Rangers are the benchmark team – this month.

by Ahberg on Feb 21, 2012 10:41 AM EST up reply actions  

They certainly seem like a well built team.

Time will tell I supposed.

"By far the worst performers on the (R*dskins) are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins

by smutsboy1 on Feb 21, 2012 10:50 AM EST up reply actions  

How much better-built are they than at any other point during Torts’ tenure, when they haven’t managed to win a single playoff series?

Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world

by J.P. on Feb 21, 2012 10:52 AM EST up reply actions  

Well, their defense is much better (at least the top 4). They added a center in Richards and Lundkvist is a top 5 goaltender.

So, I’d say that the maturity of Staal, DelZotto, a solid set of centers, and a great goalie makes them built much better.

by RCheli on Feb 21, 2012 10:57 AM EST up reply actions  

yup.

"By far the worst performers on the (R*dskins) are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins

by smutsboy1 on Feb 21, 2012 11:00 AM EST up reply actions  

Looks like the same top-four and goalie (though I’ll give you maturity and development there and elsewhere on the roster) and a new top pivot.

We shall see, I suppose.

Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world

by J.P. on Feb 21, 2012 11:02 AM EST up reply actions  

I agree that the Rangers’ “identity” is no different than in years past. I just think they’ve got a better group of players to execute it. That, and they seem to be getting a good dose of luck.

Unleash the Apathy.

by D'ohboy on Feb 21, 2012 11:05 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Getting a 1C moves everyone down, so now Dubinsky and Anisimov don’t have to log those top minutes and puts them in better situations to succeed.

Staal and Del Zotto and Girardi and McDonough and whatever two other defensemen fill up the bottom pair is as good a top four as you’ll see in the East, and the Rangers, for once, realized that you have to keep a young core together to get better and mature.

by RCheli on Feb 21, 2012 11:05 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

This season Anisimov has typically played wing on the line with Stepan and Gaborik.

Dubinsky has been shuffled up and down the lineup, he currently resides on the 3rd line with Prust and Boyle playing more of a shutdown role.

Ideally we’d love to have Sauer back, probably not happening this year, but that if that happens that gives them a top 5 D of Girardi/McDonagh/Staal/Del Zotto/Sauer. Going forward if Tim Erixon is anything close to the real deal they’ll be in good shape. That would makes up for the fact that the Rangers haven’t developed a consistent 30 goal guy since Tony Amonte.

by MyFavBaseballSquadron on Feb 21, 2012 12:23 PM EST up reply actions  

And then proceeded to ship him off to Chicago (albeit to get pieces to win a Cup).

And the Rangers first-round picks from ‘96 to ’04 could’ve been the worst set of players ever in a ten year period:

Jeff Brown (0 NHL games)
Stefan Cherniski (0 NHL games)
Manny Malholtra (good defensive forward but was he worth the 7th overall pick?)
Pavel Brendl (78 NHL games)
Jamie Lundmark (didn’t make it to 300 NHL games)
Dan Blackburn (not really their fault)
Hugh Jessiman (2 NHL games)
Al Montoya (finally getting a chance after being drafted in ’04)
Lauri Korpikoski (is a third-line forward for the Coyotes)

That is just terrrible.

by RCheli on Feb 21, 2012 12:32 PM EST up reply actions  

Yowza.

"Now fair's fair Henry. If I nail Hotlips and punch Hawkeye, can I go home too?

Now Dropping Bombs at Capitals Outsider

Twitter
Ron and Fez 11 to 3

by YvonLabresMoustache on Feb 21, 2012 12:41 PM EST up reply actions  

To be fair

Toronto’s draft record is pretty bad too. And then account for the fact that they often trade away their 1st round picks, not just under Burke but that was going on in the 90s too.

by MyFavBaseballSquadron on Feb 21, 2012 12:42 PM EST up reply actions  

Just for trivia, no one’s had a worse draft than the 1990 Oilers, whose 11 draft picks that year played a combined zero NHL games.

"Now fair's fair Henry. If I nail Hotlips and punch Hawkeye, can I go home too?

Now Dropping Bombs at Capitals Outsider

Twitter
Ron and Fez 11 to 3

by YvonLabresMoustache on Feb 21, 2012 12:44 PM EST up reply actions  

Although they might have some heat from the 03 Coyotes draft, who have had zero NHL games from 8 players.

"Now fair's fair Henry. If I nail Hotlips and punch Hawkeye, can I go home too?

Now Dropping Bombs at Capitals Outsider

Twitter
Ron and Fez 11 to 3

by YvonLabresMoustache on Feb 21, 2012 12:48 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah well if I was an Oiler fan back then the team could have done absolute jack for the entire 90s and the preceeding decade probably would have kept me sated .

by MyFavBaseballSquadron on Feb 21, 2012 12:48 PM EST up reply actions  

In the same ’96 to ’04 time period, the Maple Leafs drafted:

Nik Antrapov
Luca Cereda (0 NHL games)
Brad Boyes
Carlo Colaiacovo
Alex Steen

That’s only one bust, really. The fact that in 9 seasons they only had 5 firsts is pretty terrible. But when they picked, they chose pretty well.

by RCheli on Feb 21, 2012 12:47 PM EST up reply actions  

I’ll bet they want that Carlo and Alex for Lee Stempniak trade reversed.

Nice guys finish first, but sometimes the season is awfully long.
Follow me on Twitter.

by STLSpidey on Feb 21, 2012 12:51 PM EST up reply actions  

Carlo was hurt all the time IIRC.

"Now fair's fair Henry. If I nail Hotlips and punch Hawkeye, can I go home too?

Now Dropping Bombs at Capitals Outsider

Twitter
Ron and Fez 11 to 3

by YvonLabresMoustache on Feb 21, 2012 12:53 PM EST up reply actions  

Speaking of which, guess who’s hurt now?

"Now fair's fair Henry. If I nail Hotlips and punch Hawkeye, can I go home too?

Now Dropping Bombs at Capitals Outsider

Twitter
Ron and Fez 11 to 3

by YvonLabresMoustache on Feb 21, 2012 12:53 PM EST up reply actions  

Boyes never played for Toronto though.

And while Steen has been decent enough I would have wanted a little more than a point every other game player out of the first round.

Then again the late 90’s and 00’s prior to the 2003 weren’t terribly deep drafts.

by MyFavBaseballSquadron on Feb 21, 2012 12:52 PM EST up reply actions  

Sure, but they’re good players (and some better than good).

And Boyes brought them two seasons of an aging Owen Nolan (groan).

by RCheli on Feb 21, 2012 12:53 PM EST up reply actions  

Malhotra was also the asking price the first time NYR tried to get Bure and Neil Smith said he was untouchable. Oops.

Please, call me F&B.

by Rob Parker on Feb 21, 2012 12:49 PM EST up reply actions  

If you look at Malholtra’s career, he is the classic case of the late bloomer. His first 8 seasons in the NHL were not good, but his post-lockout career has been extremely solid.

by RCheli on Feb 21, 2012 12:51 PM EST up reply actions  

Hard to say a guy that was highly touted as an 18 year old was truly a late bloomer, but I get your point. It’s still criminal to take him off the table when Bure is the return.

Please, call me F&B.

by Rob Parker on Feb 21, 2012 12:57 PM EST up reply actions  

Of course, they still got Bure. Was that later on?

by RCheli on Feb 21, 2012 12:58 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, several years later. After two almost-60 goal seasons in FLA and the knee injuries set in.

Please, call me F&B.

by Rob Parker on Feb 21, 2012 1:00 PM EST up reply actions  

Well, Neil Smith had a good run in the early 90s, and then shit the bed. He, like Craig Patrick in Pittsburgh, decimated his team because he was allowed to stay on too long based on a Stanley Cup victory.

by RCheli on Feb 21, 2012 1:02 PM EST up reply actions  

I’ve always maintained that Messier was essentially co-GM of the post-Cup teams. How else to explain the Jari Kurri/McSorely trades.

Now Sather was terrible to start off his tenure in NY, but the first few years were basically him trying to undo some of the damage that Smith did post-94.

by MyFavBaseballSquadron on Feb 21, 2012 3:28 PM EST up reply actions  

DPE drafting was not very good. Not only did offense die, but so did scouting.

OPERATION TANK IS A GO.
In an unprecedented move 9 teams in the Eastern Conference have decided to officially "pass" on the playoffs

by Ubiquitous on Feb 21, 2012 1:04 PM EST up reply actions  

Although how many of those draft picks looked bad at the time? Brendl was highly touted, and that draft wasn’t exactly start-studded.

Please, call me F&B.

by Rob Parker on Feb 21, 2012 1:07 PM EST up reply actions  

Sure, but as a highly paid GM/scout, you’re supposed to be the expert and know when highly touted is legit or not.

by RCheli on Feb 21, 2012 1:10 PM EST up reply actions  

Fire everyone that ever missed on a prospect!

Obviously Havlat was the pick to make there, and 20 other teams fucked it up as well.

Please, call me F&B.

by Rob Parker on Feb 21, 2012 1:13 PM EST up reply actions  

Yes, fire them all because they missed on just one highly-touted draft pick.

Oh, wait. They missed consistently! Now fire them!

by RCheli on Feb 21, 2012 1:21 PM EST up reply actions  

I’m not going to look at every one of those draft classes, but the late 90s weren’t exactly a golden age. I suspect a lot of those mediocre-to-bad picks came in mediocre-to-bad draft years.

Please, call me F&B.

by Rob Parker on Feb 21, 2012 1:23 PM EST up reply actions  

As a Rangers fan I’ll chime in.

Pretty different team (both on paper and in terms of development) that you guys beat in 09 and that missed the playoffs in 10. If you remember the top 4 D featured the likes of Redden and Rozsival.

Gaborik wasn’t there in 2009 and he was basically their only consistent scoring threat in his first year in NY. Del Zotto was a rookie in 2010, McDonagh came in halfway through last year. Add in Callahan adding more than just hustle and the occasional goal and they’re a team that’s done a partial rebuild over the past 2 seasons.

Not to mention Torts was an in season replacement in 2009 and it took him a couple of seasons to craft the roster to how he wanted it (i.e. get rid of dead wood).

by MyFavBaseballSquadron on Feb 21, 2012 12:19 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

A golden year from Lundqvist, a full year of Gabo (at least so far) and Richards (ditto) and a bunch of good performances from role players…a lot has gone right for them this year.

I’m not saying they’re a bad team, because they’re not. But I do think they’re the team for whom everything has gone mostly right this year. Much like the Caps in ‘09-’10.

Patron saint of quality footwear.

by fat_daddyo on Feb 21, 2012 11:18 AM EST up reply actions  

(old school Batman announcer voice)

Will Gabby grapple with the ghastly task for consistency in the playoffs

Will King Henrik once again face Matt Bradley in the post season?

Will Tortorella tollerate the tenacity of the home team crowd of tossing waterbottles?

by Brainumbc on Feb 21, 2012 11:21 AM EST up reply actions  

Almost all top teams there. Win and people want to know how you’re winning and that becomes your identity.

Is there any reason that the Caps (with a little more hustle, perhaps, though I think that would be looked at as being there with a few more wins) don’t fit that Rangers identity?

Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world

by J.P. on Feb 21, 2012 10:41 AM EST up reply actions  

Because their top-end talent is playing like crap?

Unleash the Apathy.

by D'ohboy on Feb 21, 2012 10:42 AM EST up reply actions  

But that’s not the Rangers identity you identified – you said the Rangers “hope the top-end skill guys can score a bit.” The Caps hope the same.

Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world

by J.P. on Feb 21, 2012 10:43 AM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, and one of those teams is having good/great years from their top-end talent, and the other isn’t.

I’m not sure where we’re disagreeing.

Unleash the Apathy.

by D'ohboy on Feb 21, 2012 10:44 AM EST up reply actions  

Not sure we are. I guess I’m saying the Caps have every bit as much “identity” as the Rangers as you’ve identified theirs, just markedly different results.

Point being, this team’s problem isn’t a “lack of identity,” it’s a lack of playing good hockey.

Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world

by J.P. on Feb 21, 2012 10:47 AM EST up reply actions  

Point being, this team’s problem isn’t a "lack of identity," it’s a lack of playing good hockey.

I disagree somewhat. I think the lack of an “identity,” or strategy, or common purpose, is contributing somewhat to the lack of good hockey.

Hunter said he wanted the team to be “tough to play against.” Right now, the only manifestation I see of that are the blocked shots.

Unleash the Apathy.

by D'ohboy on Feb 21, 2012 10:50 AM EST up reply actions  

That’s fair, and they certainly aren’t delivering on “tough to play against.”

But again, I think that’s somewhat chicken-or-egg with winning – when they’re playing well, they’ve been tough to play against and when they’ve been tough to play against, they’ve played well.

So wherein lies the disconnect? Most of the “tough to play against” has to come from the role players, no? Where are Chimera, Brouwer, Ward, Hendricks and so on?

Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world

by J.P. on Feb 21, 2012 10:55 AM EST up reply actions  

But, to be fair:

Colorado – Speed. Out-skate teams at a mile high. Make them suck wind.
Phoenix – System-first defense.
LAK – Mind-numbing, spirit-crushing, defense-first hockey.

Unleash the Apathy.

by D'ohboy on Feb 21, 2012 10:44 AM EST up reply actions  

Where does narrative end and identity begin?

Please, call me F&B.

by Rob Parker on Feb 21, 2012 10:48 AM EST up reply actions  

Hard to say. Both are responses to the same questions – “What is (the team’s) modus operandi or personality?”

Narrative is the answer provided by journalists, bloggers, folks like us – and is difficult to shake.

Identity is the answer provided by the players.

Nice guys finish first, but sometimes the season is awfully long.
Follow me on Twitter.

by STLSpidey on Feb 21, 2012 10:53 AM EST up reply actions  

I think that’s where I come down, in which case none of us really know the “identity” until someone comes out and says it.

Please, call me F&B.

by Rob Parker on Feb 21, 2012 10:56 AM EST up reply actions  

Again, I disagree.

Look at Philly. They had an identity, albeit one that always seemed to cost them come playoff time.

Ludicrously deep forward corps (usually comprising some pretty big, tough dudes), relatively weaker defense and goaltending.

They’ve gone away from that (or at least tried to) this year. I’m not certain that it’s an improvement.

Unleash the Apathy.

by D'ohboy on Feb 21, 2012 10:58 AM EST up reply actions  

This is a great point, for me.

PHI’s identity is a team that can’t buy a save. And yet, last year with their nobody goalies, their goaltending was actually better than they got this year now that they “addressed the problem.”

Goaltending wasn’t the reason they lost in the SCF. You could argue goaltending was a huge reason they even got there in the first place.

So your identity is narrative, and one that isn’t even supported by an inspection of the evidence.

Please, call me F&B.

by Rob Parker on Feb 21, 2012 11:02 AM EST up reply actions  

Your argument makes no sense.

The Flyers have historically prioritized acquiring talented forwards over defense and goaltending.

The Flyers have historically had some “tougher/bigger” guys among that corps of forwards.

The Flyers have traditionally lived (and died) with how their random grab-bag of goalies performed.

Over the last few years, I think Holmgren has tried to redefine the Flyers’ identity, and I’m not sure it’s been all that successful. He brought in Pronger who, while he often behaved like the Flyers of old, shifted the relative weight of the Flyers’ salary structure toward the defense.

Then last summer, he went out and traded forward depth to acquire a goaltender.

Even if Bobbryz was playing well, I’m not certain that Holmgren’s moves would have worked, because they seem antithetical to how the Flyers have viewed themselves.

Philly’s identity this year isn’t a team that can’t buy a save – that’s just their results on the ice. I have a hard time describing what Philly’s identity really is, because I think that they really don’t have one. Honestly, this is the first time I can remember saying that, except for maybe that one year where everything fell apart under Hitchcock.

Unleash the Apathy.

by D'ohboy on Feb 21, 2012 11:13 AM EST up reply actions  

So Pronger doesn’t fit your identity narrative, but somehow you say he does. He was the leader on their Cup run and then took the C when they traded out their old C, who would actually fit your identity narrative more than Pronger does.

I’m saying that “PHI ignores goaltending” is a narrative more than a truthful identity. Just because the owner bought into the narrative doesn’t make it true.

Please, call me F&B.

by Rob Parker on Feb 21, 2012 11:18 AM EST up reply actions  

No, he fits it perfectly. I’m arguing that Holmgren has been shifting the Flyers’ identity over the last few years. The moves last summer were part of a bigger pattern. Less forward-heavy, more emphasis on defense and goaltending.

I’m not sure how you can realistically argue that Philadelphia has treated the goalie position as an afterthought since Hextall.

Unleash the Apathy.

by D'ohboy on Feb 21, 2012 11:26 AM EST up reply actions  

I’m saying it hasn’t cost them nearly as much as people tend to say it did. They made the SCF with “afterthought” level goaltending. Roman Czechmanek was great for them and then he has a meltdown at the end of his NHL career and everyone pretends like he wasn’t a stud. They brought in two goalies, who maybe didn’t have the same pedigree or reputation, had both been to an SCF. How often does that get mentioned? Never. It’s “LOL FUCKING LEIGHTON AND BIIIIIIIIRON.”

Please, call me F&B.

by Rob Parker on Feb 21, 2012 11:32 AM EST up reply actions  

Also doubles as the worst currently-serving ref in the game.

Please, call me F&B.

by Rob Parker on Feb 21, 2012 12:57 PM EST up reply actions  

I don’t think what you’ve described is an identity. You’ve described a type of roster management and roster philosophy.

Now, if you had used the Broad Street Bullies as an example, then you’ve got a team identity. That team was built through roster management, but the identity went much, much farther than that and picked up the vibes of the city at that time. Players that were normally clean, adopted a different persona when they joined the Flyers then. The Players embraced the BSB identity and it got them two Cups.

Nice guys finish first, but sometimes the season is awfully long.
Follow me on Twitter.

by STLSpidey on Feb 21, 2012 11:02 AM EST up reply actions  

Is roster management/philosophy really all that different from identity? I don’t know that I would separate the two.

"You do that, you go to the box, you know. Two minutes, by yourself, and you... feel shame" -Denis Lemieux

by leacha on Feb 21, 2012 11:08 AM EST up reply actions  

I explicitly said that I think they’re pretty much the same thing earlier in the thread.

You have an idea of what kind of team you’d like to build, then you go get players that fit that mold.

Nashville under Poile is a perfect example. They’re a really good modern facsimile of the Poile-built Caps. Exceptional defensemen, lunch-pail forwards. Lots of effort, not much top-end talent.

Unleash the Apathy.

by D'ohboy on Feb 21, 2012 11:18 AM EST up reply actions  

So a bad GM, by definition, builds a team with no identity?

Nice guys finish first, but sometimes the season is awfully long.
Follow me on Twitter.

by STLSpidey on Feb 21, 2012 11:22 AM EST up reply actions  

I think a bad GM either doesn’t have a “vision” for what he’d like his team to be, or he can’t figure out which players will fit that vision.

Good example – why in fuck did Minnesota acquire Marty Havlat? Why did they compound that error by trading him for Dany Heatley? Who on earth thought that would be a good idea?

Unleash the Apathy.

by D'ohboy on Feb 21, 2012 11:27 AM EST up reply actions  

C’mon D’oh. Please answer my question.

A bad GM builds a team without identity or with an identity?

Nice guys finish first, but sometimes the season is awfully long.
Follow me on Twitter.

by STLSpidey on Feb 21, 2012 11:28 AM EST up reply actions  

I answered. I have a job. I have other things to do.

Also, this is a dumb question.

Unleash the Apathy.

by D'ohboy on Feb 21, 2012 12:21 PM EST up reply actions   2 recs

I think a bad GM either doesn’t have a "vision" for what he’d like his team to be, or he can’t figure out which players will fit that vision.

So would the Caps’ acquisition of Jagr fit that mold – hard-working, defense-oriented team with strong goaltending suddenly goes to shit by adding a prima donna skill guy?

After the fact, it seems that way. But if it had worked, it’s probably a team that “out-works its opponents and plays well in its own end, but then burns you on the PP and with elite talent.”

Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world

by J.P. on Feb 21, 2012 11:33 AM EST up reply actions  

But how does that work when you’re giving 20 mins/night to a player who doesn’t fit that mold?

How does that work when said player requests (nee demands) that you bring in some other skilled guys to play with him?

Unleash the Apathy.

by D'ohboy on Feb 21, 2012 12:22 PM EST up reply actions  

You tell me – is bringing in a guy who ostensibly should be able to help your team but doesn’t necessarily fit the mold an inherently bad move? Or are identities and molds malleable?

Is it only after a failure that we say the reason it didn’t work is that he didn’t fit the identity?

As for the second part, no player should dictate management decisions, but I’m not sure what that has to do with this.

Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world

by J.P. on Feb 21, 2012 12:28 PM EST up reply actions  

I think that acquiring players who don’t fit an overall strategy/identity is never, NEVER a good idea, no matter how great it sounds in theory.

I literally cannot think of an occasion when it has worked in the NHL.

Unleash the Apathy.

by D'ohboy on Feb 21, 2012 12:36 PM EST up reply actions  

How about Brett Hull in Dallas?

Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world

by J.P. on Feb 21, 2012 12:41 PM EST up reply actions  

Hull was 34 by the time he got to Dallas, though.

by RCheli on Feb 21, 2012 12:48 PM EST up reply actions  

Hull’s probably a good exception, but. . .

Hull was already 34 by the time he went to Dallas (maturity), and Hull already had his “kick at the can” doing it his way in StL in 1996, and it failed.

The Stars were stacked with veterans and their coach didn’t take shit from anyone. The Stars weren’t built around Hull in the way the Caps were built around Jagr.

So I guess that, while I take your point, it was pretty much a perfect situation to get Hull to play along.

Unleash the Apathy.

by D'ohboy on Feb 21, 2012 12:49 PM EST up reply actions  

I’m hearing Hull was 34 by about the time he got to Dallas.

"Now fair's fair Henry. If I nail Hotlips and punch Hawkeye, can I go home too?

Now Dropping Bombs at Capitals Outsider

Twitter
Ron and Fez 11 to 3

by YvonLabresMoustache on Feb 21, 2012 12:51 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Maybe they had a crazy idea that they needed to score some goals.

Please, call me F&B.

by Rob Parker on Feb 21, 2012 11:33 AM EST up reply actions  

You don’t need Heatley to score goals. He’s a guy who has never had a good reputation defensively. Maybe that was the only deal they got for Havlat, but it doesn’t make sense within the context of what Minnesota appears to be doing.

Unleash the Apathy.

by D'ohboy on Feb 21, 2012 12:23 PM EST up reply actions  

Huh? You don’t need Heatley specifically to score goals, but you need someone. They tried to get goals out of Havlat and it didn’t work. They flipped him for what they thought was a better goal scorer.

Go check out your narrative identity for MIN, I think it’s pretty clear they needed to add some offense.

Please, call me F&B.

by Rob Parker on Feb 21, 2012 12:52 PM EST up reply actions  

Minnesota’s commitment to defense isn’t a narrative, it’s how they play.

Given their commitment to defense, they’d have been better off targeting someone who plays it on occasion, as opposed to Heatley, who usually has to be introduced to his goalie at the end of the season.

Unleash the Apathy.

by D'ohboy on Feb 21, 2012 12:58 PM EST up reply actions  

Or… considering the strength in team D they could use a guy that can score goals, especially on the PP, hoping that they could cover his ass defensively.

They play defensively. Fact. It’s an “identity.” Narrative.

Please, call me F&B.

by Rob Parker on Feb 21, 2012 1:01 PM EST up reply actions  

Now you’re just playing semantics.

If I’m the GM of Minnesota and I need to go acquire a wing to score me some goals, but not kill me defensively, and I’ve got about $7m to spend, I can think of much better candidates than Havlat or Heatley. Hell, even from the Sharks, I would have angled for Clowe or Marleau. Hossa would be another target.

Heatley just screams “poor fit” with Minnesota’s defensive identity.

Unleash the Apathy.

by D'ohboy on Feb 21, 2012 1:05 PM EST up reply actions  

Havlat isn’t bad defensively.

You don’t think there was a reason Marleau wasn’t traded? Like, maybe he wasn’t on the table?

Clowe is nice but he’s not exactly a defensive stud and he isn’t the same caliber scorer as Heatley.

So you don’t like the Heatley trade because you think he’s a “poor fit” with their “identity.” Meanwhile, the guy is leading the team in goals and points. Sounds an awful lot like he’s doing what they brought him in to do.

Please, call me F&B.

by Rob Parker on Feb 21, 2012 1:09 PM EST up reply actions  

1. Koivu is out, so he’s only leading them by default.

2. Just wait, the Jagr trade didn’t look like a disaster right away, either.

Unleash the Apathy.

by D'ohboy on Feb 21, 2012 1:10 PM EST up reply actions  

“By default” meaning “by scoring more than anyone else.”

Please, call me F&B.

by Rob Parker on Feb 21, 2012 1:13 PM EST up reply actions  

Even if Koivu catches him in points, Heater would still lead in goals. Which is why he’s there.

Please, call me F&B.

by Rob Parker on Feb 21, 2012 1:15 PM EST up reply actions  

And yet they’ll still miss the playoffs.

Let’s chat in a year or so when they’ve missed the playoffs again and we start hearing chatter about how Heatley is tired of losing.

Unleash the Apathy.

by D'ohboy on Feb 21, 2012 1:21 PM EST up reply actions  

So Heatley is a bad fit because he “doesn’t fit their defensive identity” or a bad fit because he doesn’t like losing?

Please, call me F&B.

by Rob Parker on Feb 21, 2012 1:24 PM EST up reply actions  

Or a bad fit because he’s overrated?

Once you take the fisting element out, it's not romantic anymore.

by Steckel Me Elmo on Feb 21, 2012 1:26 PM EST up reply actions  

Or a bad fit because he’s just a douche bag? What “identity” does a whiny douche bag fit into? If the answer is “none” (and why wouldn’t it be) then why would any sane GM ever bring the guy to their club? Goals < Identity.

Please, call me F&B.

by Rob Parker on Feb 21, 2012 1:27 PM EST up reply actions  

Was he overrated at that point?

by brs03 on Feb 21, 2012 1:28 PM EST up reply actions  

Look at Philly. They had an identity, albeit one that always seemed to cost them come playoff time.

Isn’t there actually a disconnect between Philly’s “identity” (i.e. the Bullies) and the team’s actual make-up over the past few years?

Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world

by J.P. on Feb 21, 2012 11:03 AM EST up reply actions  

I don’t think the Flyers have the Broad Street Bullies identity any longer.

Nice guys finish first, but sometimes the season is awfully long.
Follow me on Twitter.

by STLSpidey on Feb 21, 2012 11:05 AM EST up reply actions  

Next time Rinaldo runs a guy from behind just wait and see how it plays out.

Please, call me F&B.

by Rob Parker on Feb 21, 2012 11:06 AM EST up reply actions  

Fair enough. I was the one who asked the other day why the hell a team needed Rinaldo, Sestito AND Shelley.

Nice guys finish first, but sometimes the season is awfully long.
Follow me on Twitter.

by STLSpidey on Feb 21, 2012 11:06 AM EST up reply actions  

Arena full of mouth breathers?

"Now fair's fair Henry. If I nail Hotlips and punch Hawkeye, can I go home too?

Now Dropping Bombs at Capitals Outsider

Twitter
Ron and Fez 11 to 3

by YvonLabresMoustache on Feb 21, 2012 11:07 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

I don’t think they’ve been “bullies” for some time, but ever since I can remember, the Flyers have always had a dauntingly deep corps of forwards, and they usually had at least a handful of guys who were big and physical.

Unleash the Apathy.

by D'ohboy on Feb 21, 2012 11:06 AM EST up reply actions  

Agreed, but I think you’d be hard-pressed to find a team and an identity across the League (among fans, pundits, whatever) that would be mentioned more often than “Flyers” and “tough.” It’s how they market themselves, how they are perceived, etc. If there’s identity, that’s gotta be it, even though the current incarnation doesn’t necessarily fit the bill. And that’s the narrative part I’m getting at.

Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world

by J.P. on Feb 21, 2012 11:09 AM EST up reply actions  

Point taken, but I think Richards was a prototypical Flyer. He wasn’t the most talented guy, but he’d break your ankle if it meant winning a game/series.

Carcillo’s fight against Talbot was, to me, the apotheosis of the Flyers’ identity.

I don’t see anything like that in these Flyers. That’s likely less of an issue for them right now than their complete and utter lack of goaltending, but I think it’s a problem nevertheless.

Unleash the Apathy.

by D'ohboy on Feb 21, 2012 11:16 AM EST up reply actions  

Agreed on Richards – seemed to be cut from the same cloth as Clarke et. al. Perhaps sending him packing was the final nail in the coffin on the traditional Flyers identity. Certainly, bringing in 68 and relying on Giroux (who is, of course, fantastic, but hardly fitting the PHI mold) and a couple of Russians is about as un-Flyers as it gets.

Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world

by J.P. on Feb 21, 2012 11:20 AM EST up reply actions  

I think there’s an organization wide, from the very top on down, that if you wear the Flyers logo, you better have some swagger. Doesn’t matter who you are, you’re now a Flyer are we are the biggest baddest team on the block and you have to uphold decades of that reputation.

and then there’s the goalies….

Pledge Drive 2011-2012: CARSON KOLZIG FOUNDATION! Season Pledge total--$1328.52!

by RedBirdie on Feb 21, 2012 11:27 AM EST up reply actions  

Related to this a bit, they may be douchebags, but at least they’ve embraced it.

"My favorite fan base in D.C. is United's. Period. The end." - Steinberg

Fair deal on a lease? Apparently accomplished, though the mission is not complete. Let's Keep United in DC and realize the dream of a stadium with local investment and incentives to US Soccer's greatest club franchise.

by Bald Pollack on Feb 21, 2012 11:45 AM EST up reply actions  

yep. So have the Bruins.

Pledge Drive 2011-2012: CARSON KOLZIG FOUNDATION! Season Pledge total--$1328.52!

by RedBirdie on Feb 21, 2012 11:51 AM EST up reply actions  

They transfered their identity to the Bruins.

(Yes, I know about the avatar hounding - just pretend mine is invisible.)

by oldemystix on Feb 21, 2012 11:59 AM EST up reply actions  

I’d also argue that bad teams don’t have a strategy, or their strategy failed, or they don’t have the talent to execute the strategy they’ve got.

If the Bruins went out and acquired Alex Semin and Mike Ribeiro, it probably wouldn’t work out too well, for example.

Unleash the Apathy.

by D'ohboy on Feb 21, 2012 10:47 AM EST up reply actions  

Because Semin and Ribeiro aren’t the kind of guys you can rely on to try to win a Cup.

Please, call me F&B.

by Rob Parker on Feb 21, 2012 10:48 AM EST up reply actions  

But even as spare parts, they wouldn’t fit with how Boston plays.

Ribeiro might be a great fit in Vancouver though.

Unleash the Apathy.

by D'ohboy on Feb 21, 2012 10:50 AM EST up reply actions  

What fit might that be? Just because he’s a ho-bag?

Sedin
Kessler
Malhotra
Who cares.

Which of those guys does it make sense to bump for Ribeiro?

Please, call me F&B.

by Rob Parker on Feb 21, 2012 10:52 AM EST up reply actions  

Not saying that it makes sense, I’m saying that he fits with their oeuvre.

Unleash the Apathy.

by D'ohboy on Feb 21, 2012 10:54 AM EST up reply actions  

From what I’ve seen, Who Cares has pretty good Corsi numbers.

"Now fair's fair Henry. If I nail Hotlips and punch Hawkeye, can I go home too?

Now Dropping Bombs at Capitals Outsider

Twitter
Ron and Fez 11 to 3

by YvonLabresMoustache on Feb 21, 2012 10:55 AM EST up reply actions   2 recs

Contract steal, that guy. Would be pretty funny to see him score a goal in the VC.

Please, call me F&B.

by Rob Parker on Feb 21, 2012 10:57 AM EST up reply actions  

I just hope they don’t throw James Neal money at that guy. I’ve heard his attitude level is pretty varied from game-to-game.

"Now fair's fair Henry. If I nail Hotlips and punch Hawkeye, can I go home too?

Now Dropping Bombs at Capitals Outsider

Twitter
Ron and Fez 11 to 3

by YvonLabresMoustache on Feb 21, 2012 10:59 AM EST up reply actions  

Well I’d say 5 mill for a fourth liner is a bad deal, regardless.

Please, call me F&B.

by Rob Parker on Feb 21, 2012 11:03 AM EST up reply actions  

One word: consistency. There’s no identity without identifiable execution patterns to discern.

The only identity this team warrants is, for the most part, their sloppiness with the puck.

by Langway on Feb 21, 2012 11:24 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Didn’t see this before I typed mine. Agree completely.

by Gin and Tonic on Feb 21, 2012 1:37 PM EST up reply actions  

And almost all mention something about effort and discipline. Something that has been lacking from the Caps on a regular basis.

Identity is driven by consistency. No consistency, no identity.

If the Caps played every game like they did against FLA on Friday, I don’t think there would be the same questions about identity.

by Gin and Tonic on Feb 21, 2012 1:36 PM EST up reply actions  

Identity is def all narrative. Identity means only what a team does well. A team is “tight checking”, or “high-flying”, or “defense-first”, because that’s what they do well. The Caps don’t seem to do anything well on a regular basis this year. Thus, no identity.

by kingbonehead on Feb 21, 2012 11:04 AM EST up reply actions  

Tell that to any team coached by Hitchcock, Tippett or Boudreau.

Unleash the Apathy.

by D'ohboy on Feb 21, 2012 11:19 AM EST up reply actions  

What’s the identity of Boudreau’s Ducks?

Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world

by J.P. on Feb 21, 2012 11:20 AM EST up reply actions  

Scrappy team on a playoff push?

by RossingtonCollins on Feb 21, 2012 11:23 AM EST up reply actions  

Have a goalie on fire and forwards who meet expectations?

"You do that, you go to the box, you know. Two minutes, by yourself, and you... feel shame" -Denis Lemieux

by leacha on Feb 21, 2012 11:23 AM EST up reply actions  

A hungry team in pursuit of carrots – with carrots available with every win. Can they hit the 60 plateau – can they surpass another team with a win (Ryan said recently that they are clocking this in relation to both East and West teams), can they surpass the Caps, can they surpass one team with a win, then another with another win, etc… They have rewards in the standings for each win.

Bonus for them is that they are playing well within a team system (and Hiller has been lights out). It might be true that BB has had an effect on all of this.

by Ahberg on Feb 21, 2012 11:27 AM EST up reply actions  

same identity the early BB Caps had: having fun playing firewagon hockey.

Pledge Drive 2011-2012: CARSON KOLZIG FOUNDATION! Season Pledge total--$1328.52!

by RedBirdie on Feb 21, 2012 11:28 AM EST up reply actions  

And as fun to watch as the early BB caps (my non-point).

by Ahberg on Feb 21, 2012 11:29 AM EST up reply actions  

You know a Boudreau-coached team is going to play aggressive offensively. True, he dabbled in the trap, but you could tell he never really liked it, and he went away from it pretty quickly.

Same thing goes for Jacques Lemaire. You know what you’re getting.

Same thing goes for a team built by David Poile. You know what you’re getting.

Same thing goes for a team that Scotty Bowman is involved with. You know what you’re getting.

Same thing goes for a team built/coached by a Sutter. You know what you’re getting.

Unleash the Apathy.

by D'ohboy on Feb 21, 2012 11:30 AM EST up reply actions  

Scotty Bowman had a lot more variability than you’re giving him credit for.

Please, call me F&B.

by Rob Parker on Feb 21, 2012 11:34 AM EST up reply actions  

Yeah. How’d those stints with the Blues and Sabres go?

And don’t tell me about his three finals appearances with the Blues. The divisions were rigged to get expansion teams in the finals, and they won zero games in three appearances.

Nice guys finish first, but sometimes the season is awfully long.
Follow me on Twitter.

by STLSpidey on Feb 21, 2012 11:35 AM EST up reply actions  

How about his Cups with MON and PIT. Something tells me there’s a reason the Left Wing Lock is associated with the Red Wings and not his prior stints behind the bench…

Please, call me F&B.

by Rob Parker on Feb 21, 2012 11:37 AM EST up reply actions  

Bowman then joined the Montreal Canadiens as head coach. Though the Habs were the defending champions, Al MacNeil had been sacked as head coach due to accusations of favouritism toward the team’s anglophone players.

Please, call me F&B.

by Rob Parker on Feb 21, 2012 11:38 AM EST up reply actions  

Yep. He learned and grew and changed. We’re in alignment here.

Nice guys finish first, but sometimes the season is awfully long.
Follow me on Twitter.

by STLSpidey on Feb 21, 2012 11:38 AM EST up reply actions  

Scotty Bowman’s teams (and those he’s been involved with, like the Blackhawks) have been about puck possession.

I can’t speak about his teams in StL or Buffalo, but since Montreal, his teams have always, always possessed the puck. He’s also shown a knack for getting veteran guys to buy into his system, regardless of their reputation.

Unleash the Apathy.

by D'ohboy on Feb 21, 2012 12:25 PM EST up reply actions  

Groundbreaking.

Please, call me F&B.

by Rob Parker on Feb 21, 2012 12:53 PM EST up reply actions  

Doesn’t matter if it’s groundbreaking or not, it’s how his teams play.

Hire Lemaire and you get solid defense via the trap.

Hire Hitch or Tippett, and you likewise get solid commitment to defensive systems.

Hire a Sutter, and you get gritty, defensive hockey.

Hire Quenneville or Tortorella, and you get aggressive, puck-pressure hockey.

I think the Caps hired Hunter in hopes of getting something akin to Quenneville or Torts (or Bylsma), and instead they’ve gotten something more akin to the Calgary version of Sutter.

Unleash the Apathy.

by D'ohboy on Feb 21, 2012 1:01 PM EST up reply actions  

Basically Bowman was hired to do a rebuild after the French Connection years in Buffalo. He succeeded to some degreel – the Sabres had some of their worst years toward the end of his time in Buffalo and had to be re-rebuilt. But under his tenure is when the Sabres drafted Barrasso and Housley. And Calle Johansson for that matter.

by Philaster on Feb 21, 2012 11:19 PM EST up reply actions  

Parros’ moustache?

"Now fair's fair Henry. If I nail Hotlips and punch Hawkeye, can I go home too?

Now Dropping Bombs at Capitals Outsider

Twitter
Ron and Fez 11 to 3

by YvonLabresMoustache on Feb 21, 2012 11:45 AM EST up reply actions  

Getzlaf’s bald spot?

Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world

by J.P. on Feb 21, 2012 11:45 AM EST up reply actions  

Spot?

"Now fair's fair Henry. If I nail Hotlips and punch Hawkeye, can I go home too?

Now Dropping Bombs at Capitals Outsider

Twitter
Ron and Fez 11 to 3

by YvonLabresMoustache on Feb 21, 2012 11:46 AM EST up reply actions  

0000

I’d love it if he went with the “horseshoe”. The world needs more bald hockey players.

"Now fair's fair Henry. If I nail Hotlips and punch Hawkeye, can I go home too?

Now Dropping Bombs at Capitals Outsider

Twitter
Ron and Fez 11 to 3

by YvonLabresMoustache on Feb 21, 2012 11:48 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Rec’d for truth.

"My favorite fan base in D.C. is United's. Period. The end." - Steinberg

Fair deal on a lease? Apparently accomplished, though the mission is not complete. Let's Keep United in DC and realize the dream of a stadium with local investment and incentives to US Soccer's greatest club franchise.

by Bald Pollack on Feb 21, 2012 11:50 AM EST up reply actions  

You mean a monk’s tonsure?

by RCheli on Feb 21, 2012 11:52 AM EST up reply actions  

You had to use THAT picture?

"You can want to get to April but when you get to April you may not like the answers you get, so you might as well enjoy the ride while it's going on." - Brian McNally on JRR, 8/29/2011

by bagace on Feb 21, 2012 12:35 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

The Caps had an identity as a high-flying offensive team...

and then got spooked by the playoff losses and tried to change it by becoming tougher and more defensive. They brought in two guys, brouwer and ward, who are tough and yet can score a bit (at least brouwer). I thought they were exactly the type of players the Caps needed—playoff players, if you will.

But the transition has flopped, thus far. Whether this stylistic change is partly or mostly responsible for Ovie’s offensive falloff is hard to say, but he’s been pretty average for two years. Also, the goalkeeping early in the year was TERRIBLE. It’s gotten better but I would hardly call the Caps goalies exceptional. They aren’t. Then, of course, first Green and then Backstrom suffered serious injuries—and the team has just fallen apart. And I also think hiring Hunter was a big mistake. This team has completely lost its confidence and its mojo. If this poor play continues through the end of the year, would the GM REALLY bring Hunter back? Add it up—suspect head coach, average goalkeeping, style change, Ovie falloff and two big injuries, and to me the Caps problems aren’t so mysterious after all.

by slipperyice on Feb 21, 2012 8:31 PM EST up reply actions  

That’s not how it went. BB initially changed nothing. Then, losing happened. So he tried to limit goals against instead.

Ovechkin still produces like a top-line wing. 30-30-60 is top line wing on almost every team.

Vokoun was the main reason for the winning streak earlier in the season. Sure, it’s been a little streaky, but Vokoun has the second-highest save percentage since the lockout (Thomas overtook him only after last season) for a reason—he’s one of the five best goalies in the game, easy. He may not be that good anymore, but he’s still well above average. Neuvirth has had his struggles, but I think he’s still an average starter (or maybe a smidge below) just having some rough nights.

Maybe it won’t be GMGM’s decision on whether to bring Hunter back…

Red Line Station and @RedArmyLine, featuring coverage of the most frustrating team in the NHL
I believe in next year.

by red army line on Feb 21, 2012 10:57 PM EST up reply actions   2 recs

I love this thread but after reading through it I think identity is being confused with organizational philosophy. From what I perceive, the Caps had a philosophy of offense first, get derailed by MTL and then lose that focus on the core philosophy. Not a judgment, just reality. In the meantime, the organization through the minor league system is naturally still tooled for that philosophy. Now DH – whether alone or not – is tasked with changing the philosophy of the organization with not enough of the “right” tools in the box. It creates a system, a philosophy, that is out of focus.

In reality, I personally would have chosen a BB replacement who could work with the existing set of players to come up with a winning formula rather than try to continue to hammer a defense first system that I feel some of these players don’t want to be a part of and may not have the skill set necessary to succeed. And if the players can’t be shown its value they will reject it as I think we’ve seen already.

Oh this young man has had a very trying rookie season, with the litigation, the notoriety, his subsequent deportation to Canada and that country's refusal to accept him...

by Steve47 on Feb 21, 2012 4:18 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

what is the offensive strategy even supposed to be?

Well, I’m not there when they’re discussing x’s and o’s, so I can only watch the actual games and listen to the players and coaches speaking after each game. I hear and see a lot about this “cycling the puck” concept. Apparently the idea is to tire out the defense, keep the puck in the other team’s zone, and generate scoring chances.

Then I notice this curious skating thing they do when they’re exiting their zone. It could just be coincidence, but it seems to happen a lot, especially after line changes: a guy holds the puck behind the net or deep in the zone, and while he’s doing that…it’s like all the other players get bored maybe and start doing this ice capades thing criss-crossing like they’re the blue angels or something.

It may all just be coincidence though.

One thing I know they must be practicing is the move where they bring the puck back into shooting position and lose it, or fumble or pass the puck off to the other team. And the not scoring thing seems to be a key part of their current strategy. Irrespective of the rest of the strategies implemented, I think these two really have a lot of potential in affecting the Caps’ playoff hopes.

I used to be a hockey player, but then I took an arrow in the knee

by Icebat on Feb 21, 2012 12:50 PM EST up reply actions   2 recs

Orpik, most noticeably, has been going out of his way to light up opposing skaters in the neutral zone. This provides for some wonderful ‘WOW" moments, but isn’t the recipe he used while developing into a top notch defenseman.

Actually, that’s exactly what he’s been doing his whole career.

Link.

Please, call me F&B.

by Rob Parker on Feb 21, 2012 10:19 AM EST reply actions  

I was always a little mystified when Orpik started being talked about as an elite defender.

"By far the worst performers on the (R*dskins) are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins

by smutsboy1 on Feb 21, 2012 10:23 AM EST up reply actions  

amazing what the “right” logo on your chest can do for your personal narrative.

Pledge Drive 2011-2012: CARSON KOLZIG FOUNDATION! Season Pledge total--$1328.52!

by RedBirdie on Feb 21, 2012 11:21 AM EST up reply actions  

Or playing with a then-rapidly-improving Kris Letang, I guess.

Red Line Station and @RedArmyLine, featuring coverage of the most frustrating team in the NHL
I believe in next year.

by red army line on Feb 21, 2012 1:06 PM EST up reply actions  

It was a long drive back to Blacksburg from Raleigh...

I pick the worst games to go to. Last night was unbelievable. The crowd was half Caps fans and we were all shaking our heads.

by alright alright alright on Feb 21, 2012 10:23 AM EST reply actions  

Yotes staying in Glendale.

Good for Carl!

"Now fair's fair Henry. If I nail Hotlips and punch Hawkeye, can I go home too?

Now Dropping Bombs at Capitals Outsider

Twitter
Ron and Fez 11 to 3

by YvonLabresMoustache on Feb 21, 2012 10:23 AM EST reply actions  

As a non-interested party, that’s disappointing.

They should move to Seattle – or any other city in the world.

"By far the worst performers on the (R*dskins) are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins

by smutsboy1 on Feb 21, 2012 10:24 AM EST up reply actions  

No building in Seattle, and good luck getting one built.

As far as Quebec goes, that’s a teeny, tiny market (when the Nords were there, the only market in N America smaller was Green Bay), and they don’t have a building either (although to be fair, they’d build one in about 10 minutes, but they’d have to find somewhere to play in the interim).

"Now fair's fair Henry. If I nail Hotlips and punch Hawkeye, can I go home too?

Now Dropping Bombs at Capitals Outsider

Twitter
Ron and Fez 11 to 3

by YvonLabresMoustache on Feb 21, 2012 10:32 AM EST up reply actions  

I still say that another team in Toronto would be a smart move (out near the airport).

If the New York area can have 3 teams, why can’t Toronto have 2?

by RCheli on Feb 21, 2012 10:34 AM EST up reply actions  

MLSE.

Please, call me F&B.

by Rob Parker on Feb 21, 2012 10:35 AM EST up reply actions  

So they’d rather prop up teams in failing markets? And do they really think that a new team will affect, in any way, their team’s skyrocketing value?

by RCheli on Feb 21, 2012 10:37 AM EST up reply actions  

NHL doesn’t like more teams in Canada because that means less American ratings data, which hurts them with advertising.

"Now fair's fair Henry. If I nail Hotlips and punch Hawkeye, can I go home too?

Now Dropping Bombs at Capitals Outsider

Twitter
Ron and Fez 11 to 3

by YvonLabresMoustache on Feb 21, 2012 10:40 AM EST up reply actions  

Spurious. It doesn’t have to be zero sum.

Please, call me F&B.

by Rob Parker on Feb 21, 2012 10:40 AM EST up reply actions  

Which is just plain ridiculous on their part considering the viewership in some of the markets (Phoenix and Miami, especially). I would say that there would be greater viewership in Michigan and upstate New York from a new Toronto team than in Miami, which averages, get this 3,000 television homes per game.

by RCheli on Feb 21, 2012 10:47 AM EST up reply actions  

I just stated a fact, one that’s been pretty well reported. I’ve been in favor of having a second team in Toronto for a long time, I think you know that. You asked why Toronto can’t have 2 teams. The answer is MLSE.

Please, call me F&B.

by Rob Parker on Feb 21, 2012 10:40 AM EST up reply actions  

Maple Leafs Sports and Entertainment.

by RCheli on Feb 21, 2012 11:12 AM EST up reply actions  

Isn’t Seattle making progress toward an arena?

That'll make your weagle wink!
"You're the boss, apple sauce" - @GreenLife52

by boutros23 on Feb 21, 2012 10:34 AM EST up reply actions  

“Making progress” and actually “having” an arena are two vastly, vastly different things, as any fan of DC United will tell you.

"Now fair's fair Henry. If I nail Hotlips and punch Hawkeye, can I go home too?

Now Dropping Bombs at Capitals Outsider

Twitter
Ron and Fez 11 to 3

by YvonLabresMoustache on Feb 21, 2012 10:39 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

read the Seattle Times link.

"By far the worst performers on the (R*dskins) are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins

by smutsboy1 on Feb 21, 2012 10:39 AM EST up reply actions  

Seattle just got a building agreement in place, but they have to secure the teams first.

And unlike most stadium deals, this one seems to not screw the taxpayers.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2017525119_arena17m.html

"By far the worst performers on the (R*dskins) are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins

by smutsboy1 on Feb 21, 2012 10:35 AM EST up reply actions  

Why taxpayers have to spend one penny on these arenas is beyond me.

by RCheli on Feb 21, 2012 10:35 AM EST up reply actions  

Because the theory is that it’ll benefit them in the long run.

Please, call me F&B.

by Rob Parker on Feb 21, 2012 10:37 AM EST up reply actions  

But you don’t ascribe to that theory, do you?

by RCheli on Feb 21, 2012 10:39 AM EST up reply actions  

I don’t think it has to be one answer for every single case. Fact of the matter is governments spend a shitload of money on lots of things people object to under the guise of “benefiting in the long run.” Sometimes you agree, sometimes you don’t. I don’t see why stadium deals are inherently different.

Please, call me F&B.

by Rob Parker on Feb 21, 2012 10:41 AM EST up reply actions  

I don’t see why stadium deals are inherently different.

Because they’re no evidence they’re likely to do what they claim.

Just b/c the government wastes money elsewhere, doesn’t make this ongoing farce ok

"By far the worst performers on the (R*dskins) are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins

by smutsboy1 on Feb 21, 2012 10:43 AM EST up reply actions  

See below. “Evidence” is irrelevant.

Please, call me F&B.

by Rob Parker on Feb 21, 2012 10:44 AM EST up reply actions  

Because usually when it comes to entertainment, the support from the government is not helping out profitable companies.

by RCheli on Feb 21, 2012 10:48 AM EST up reply actions  

As opposed to the bail outs and other forms of corporate aid? Isn’t it more objectionable for the government to subsidize profitable companies?

Please, call me F&B.

by Rob Parker on Feb 21, 2012 10:50 AM EST up reply actions  

Well, it’s not really the same thing. Sports teams are, first and foremost, entertainment. I don’t see New York handing out checks to get another Broadway theater built.

by RCheli on Feb 21, 2012 10:53 AM EST up reply actions  

Sports are a billion dollar business, regardless of what you think they should be.

And yeah, totally agree, there’s never been government subsidies for entertainment like, say, a national endowment for the arts. Or museums.

And ultimately it doesn’t really matter whether it’s entertainment or not. It’s a decision that is made by publicly elected representatives based on what they think is in the best interest of their constituents. There’s no reason to draw the line in the sand at entertainment. If that’s how you feel, vote on it. Or maybe do something that might make a difference.

Please, call me F&B.

by Rob Parker on Feb 21, 2012 10:59 AM EST up reply actions  

But those are not money-making industries. Museums and theater companies are not for-profit organizations.

by RCheli on Feb 21, 2012 11:02 AM EST up reply actions  

So is sports a money-making industry or entertainment? Entertainment when you want it to be, and industry when you don’t?

Please, call me F&B.

by Rob Parker on Feb 21, 2012 11:03 AM EST up reply actions  

I’m not sure where I said sports can’t be both.

It’s like Hollywood. When I hear that cities give production companies a tax break because they bring their movie shoots to a city or a state, I go bonkers. The tax benefit from them filming for three weeks does not offset the financial benefit.

by RCheli on Feb 21, 2012 11:08 AM EST up reply actions  

Sports teams are, first and foremost, entertainment.

To me that indicates you’re putting more emphasis on the entertainment aspect. If it’s still a big business then it’s irrelevant that it’s also entertainment.

Please, call me F&B.

by Rob Parker on Feb 21, 2012 11:11 AM EST up reply actions  

Tell that to the Spy Museum. Or Broadway.

by discuit on Feb 21, 2012 11:03 AM EST up reply actions  

But the NEA isn’t giving money to the Lion King.

by RCheli on Feb 21, 2012 11:08 AM EST up reply actions  

I think Polin financed the Verizon Center, but look at how its presence has transformed the Chinatown area and created an economically vibrant area of the city where there wasn’t before? On the flip side, the development that was supposed to accompany the publicly financed Nats stadium has yet to materialize.

I don't want to work, I want to hang on the blog all day.

by cainoo7x on Feb 21, 2012 10:43 AM EST up reply actions  

Was just going to bring up the Verizon Center as an example of arena construction with positive benefits for the neighborhood and local economy. But as you point out, it was 100% privately financed.

by discuit on Feb 21, 2012 10:45 AM EST up reply actions  

and is the exception, not the rule.

for every verizon center there’s a nationals park, caps centre, Fedex field.

"By far the worst performers on the (R*dskins) are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins

by smutsboy1 on Feb 21, 2012 10:46 AM EST up reply actions  

Let’s suppose for a moment that the Verizon Center was publicly financed. Would the redevelopment and economic growth of Chinatown suddenly go away or not be worth the investment? The point is that sometimes new arenas do provide a benefit to their communities and sometimes they don’t, regardless of how they are financed.

I don't want to work, I want to hang on the blog all day.

by cainoo7x on Feb 21, 2012 10:53 AM EST up reply actions  

The point is that sometimes new arenas do provide a benefit to their communities and sometimes they don’t,

Except most often they do not.

We don’t need to pretend like it’s a 50/50 proposition. Those odds are far too generous.

"By far the worst performers on the (R*dskins) are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins

by smutsboy1 on Feb 21, 2012 10:55 AM EST up reply actions  

The benefits to communities are greatly outweighed by those that have no economic impact. And when you’re looking at hundreds of millions of dollars, it takes a long time for even successful arenas to “repay” their gift.

by RCheli on Feb 21, 2012 10:55 AM EST up reply actions  

The arena was privately financed, but the infrastructure was not.

And that’s as much as should ever be publicly financed.

"The Caps fan doesn't say, 'is the glass half full' or 'is the glass half empty'. He wonders when the glass is going to spill."

by gfcaps fan on Feb 21, 2012 11:16 AM EST up reply actions  

Regarding the Nats stadium, that was bad timing: The real estate market crashed right when it was ready to go.

"You can want to get to April but when you get to April you may not like the answers you get, so you might as well enjoy the ride while it's going on." - Brian McNally on JRR, 8/29/2011

by bagace on Feb 21, 2012 12:39 PM EST up reply actions  

And they are starting to do some stuff around it, albeit slowly.

by brs03 on Feb 21, 2012 12:44 PM EST up reply actions  

not like there was anything here to start with. in chinatown, you at least had the city government just a couple blocks away at Judiciary Square, downtown centered around Metro Center a couple blocks the other direction, and some office buildings. The area around the ballpark was basically bulldozed. The Navy Yard is still 6 blocks away and a secure campus. the DOT HQ, while an outstanding example of seamlessly integrating security needs with the existing street scape, has not had the expected impact on spurring local retail.

The market crash just compounded all these problems.

Is this year an exciting year to live in the ballpark neighborhood? Absolutely. But it’s been a long, somewhat desolate slog to get to this point. And while the promise of ballpark patrons is driving no small part of this, there are a lot residents here that have been clamoring for years for restaurants, grocery stores, gyms, and everything else.

Pledge Drive 2011-2012: CARSON KOLZIG FOUNDATION! Season Pledge total--$1328.52!

by RedBirdie on Feb 21, 2012 12:54 PM EST up reply actions  

But it was still an area where you wouldn’t go before the VC was built. I remember the first time I visited my brother at his job on M street. He said get off Metro Center and take 13th and not 12th and he was right it was only one block and the world pretty much fell off a cliff.

Ran up that way recently and it’s hard to belive its the same place. Night and day…

To alcohol, the cause of--and solution to--all of life's problems.

by Alz in the family on Feb 21, 2012 1:39 PM EST up reply actions  

just pointing out that the VC location had a lot more going for it than the ballpark location. The VC also hosts about 200 events a year, vs. 85 for Nats Park. Anyone who was expecting the ballpark to do for that neighborhood what the VC did for Chinatown was ignoring the fundamental differences between the two.

The VC also had the advantage of opening just ahead of a decade-long economic boom.

Pledge Drive 2011-2012: CARSON KOLZIG FOUNDATION! Season Pledge total--$1328.52!

by RedBirdie on Feb 21, 2012 1:51 PM EST up reply actions  

fair enough.

The funny thing for me is I frequented the future baseball stadium site frequently (more shows than I can count at Nation as well as a buddy’s house he referred to as ‘the ghetto fortress’) and never went to anything near Chinatown before VC came along.

To alcohol, the cause of--and solution to--all of life's problems.

by Alz in the family on Feb 21, 2012 1:55 PM EST up reply actions  

Except there’s never been a single conclusive study showing that this is likely to be true.

It happens, but it’s the exception, not the rule.

It’s the disconnect that is slowly getting exposed in these sweetheart stadium deals.

"By far the worst performers on the (R*dskins) are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins

by smutsboy1 on Feb 21, 2012 10:39 AM EST up reply actions  

Oh so “single conclusive studies” are now a pre-requisite for governments to spend money?

I said “the theory is…” I’m not advocating for anything.

Please, call me F&B.

by Rob Parker on Feb 21, 2012 10:42 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Oh so "single conclusive studies" are now a pre-requisite for governments to spend money?

jesus I would hope so.

regardless, what is your argument, “I know the benefits are unlikely to materialize, but the gov wastes money elsewhere so this is ok?”

"By far the worst performers on the (R*dskins) are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins

by smutsboy1 on Feb 21, 2012 10:44 AM EST up reply actions  

My argument, insofar as there is one, is that “local governments fund arenas under the theory that the presence of an arena, and professional team as a tenant, will benefit the local community more than it will cost in the long run.”

Hope in one hand and crap in the other. Governments spend money on lots of stuff without conclusive studies (or any at all in some cases). Par for the course.

Please, call me F&B.

by Rob Parker on Feb 21, 2012 10:46 AM EST up reply actions  

Cool. I agree on both counts.

1. local govs still believe the lies

2. govs waste money on lots of shit

so back to my original point:

And unlike most stadium deals, this one seems to not screw the taxpayers.

"By far the worst performers on the (R*dskins) are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins

by smutsboy1 on Feb 21, 2012 10:48 AM EST up reply actions  

Just like the last two didn’t, right?

Councilmember Sally Bagshaw was skeptical about the investor guarantees of public funding, saying that the city had similar guarantees from the Sonics to play at KeyArena and a 30-year lease on the Kingdome, which was demolished after 24 years, leaving the taxpayers with the remaining debt.

"Now fair's fair Henry. If I nail Hotlips and punch Hawkeye, can I go home too?

Now Dropping Bombs at Capitals Outsider

Twitter
Ron and Fez 11 to 3

by YvonLabresMoustache on Feb 21, 2012 10:49 AM EST up reply actions  

seems

as in, “i am not sure.”

I greatly appreciate you adding more info to the discussion.

I too am extremely skeptical of every stadium deal.

"By far the worst performers on the (R*dskins) are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins

by smutsboy1 on Feb 21, 2012 10:52 AM EST up reply actions  

...
Oh so “single conclusive studies” are now a pre-requisite for governments to spend money?

jesus I would hope so.

me too, but politics throws a huge wrench in the works.

from the jon stewart rally:

by Natty Bumppo on Feb 21, 2012 6:24 PM EST up reply actions   4 recs

One of the all time greats.

Please, call me F&B.

by Rob Parker on Feb 21, 2012 9:32 PM EST up reply actions  

The biggest actual “benefit” is that having a major pro team validates your city as “major league” in the eyes of many people. Now that expansion has pretty reached its limits, the relocation threats aren’t taken seriously so the actual financial benefits are starting to come into question.

"Money talks. I listen."

by apk3000 on Feb 21, 2012 10:48 AM EST up reply actions  

Who’s going to move a team there without an arena deal already in place?

"Now fair's fair Henry. If I nail Hotlips and punch Hawkeye, can I go home too?

Now Dropping Bombs at Capitals Outsider

Twitter
Ron and Fez 11 to 3

by YvonLabresMoustache on Feb 21, 2012 10:41 AM EST up reply actions  

McGinn and Constantine outlined an investment proposal that calls for no new taxes and, they said, shields the public from risk by requiring investors to make up any revenue shortfall. The deal also would put the teams on the hook for the public share if one of them left before 30 years.

Yeah the league (and its investors) are going to love that idea.

"Now fair's fair Henry. If I nail Hotlips and punch Hawkeye, can I go home too?

Now Dropping Bombs at Capitals Outsider

Twitter
Ron and Fez 11 to 3

by YvonLabresMoustache on Feb 21, 2012 10:44 AM EST up reply actions  

Until there’s an official announcement, it ain’t official.

"The Caps fan doesn't say, 'is the glass half full' or 'is the glass half empty'. He wonders when the glass is going to spill."

by gfcaps fan on Feb 21, 2012 11:14 AM EST up reply actions  

I’ll tell you one thing

you’re nuts if you don’t like those alternate sweaters

Χαίρε στους νικητές

by Big Boutros on Feb 21, 2012 11:04 AM EST reply actions  

Will you please stick to the narrative please? No separate identities here.

Nice guys finish first, but sometimes the season is awfully long.
Follow me on Twitter.

by STLSpidey on Feb 21, 2012 11:06 AM EST up reply actions  

You know, Spidermans
I wish you and I didn’t agree on this one critical thing
The midseason coaching change
It scraps the season
Why didn’t you fire Boudreau in June, George

Χαίρε στους νικητές

by Big Boutros on Feb 21, 2012 11:11 AM EST up reply actions  

Too many syllables for a haiku.

by RCheli on Feb 21, 2012 11:13 AM EST up reply actions  

yeah it’s just my commenting style
always has been
not sure why

Χαίρε στους νικητές

by Big Boutros on Feb 21, 2012 11:14 AM EST up reply actions  

I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again and again.

Blue Pants today, Blue Pants tomorrow, Blue Pants forever.

"Now fair's fair Henry. If I nail Hotlips and punch Hawkeye, can I go home too?

Now Dropping Bombs at Capitals Outsider

Twitter
Ron and Fez 11 to 3

by YvonLabresMoustache on Feb 21, 2012 11:07 AM EST up reply actions  

dude bro you read my mind

Χαίρε στους νικητές

by Big Boutros on Feb 21, 2012 11:07 AM EST up reply actions  

Gormley Gasm!

“Vokie”? Really?

"Now fair's fair Henry. If I nail Hotlips and punch Hawkeye, can I go home too?

Now Dropping Bombs at Capitals Outsider

Twitter
Ron and Fez 11 to 3

by YvonLabresMoustache on Feb 21, 2012 11:05 AM EST reply actions  

To everyone that’s flirting with this “throw in the towel this season” idea:

Not that I’m going to argue against it, but if we’re going to go with that attitude, wouldn’t it just be more fun to go with a “let’s try some suicidal firewagon shit for the next 20 games and see what happens” attitude first? I mean hey, if the team has a fork stuck in them already, why not just give all the young guns the carte blanche to just go nuts and throw everything they have into offense and at least entertain the fans.

by Brainumbc on Feb 21, 2012 11:11 AM EST reply actions   1 recs

I Support This Sentiment. Where Do I Sign.

Nice guys finish first, but sometimes the season is awfully long.
Follow me on Twitter.

by STLSpidey on Feb 21, 2012 11:13 AM EST up reply actions   2 recs

Dale to Ovi: BE SELFISH!

Dale to Semin: Forget being responsible with your sticks. Hack at some ankles! Play some bongos!!

Dale to Green: We only need one D man since Vokoun counts as a goalie and 0.5 defensemen anyways

by Brainumbc on Feb 21, 2012 11:13 AM EST up reply actions  

I’d be fine with that, if we sold off some of the valuable pieces who likely won’t be here next season first.

Failure is always an option.

by timmyv38 on Feb 21, 2012 11:15 AM EST up reply actions  

Fair enough. Let’s bang out the details now and send the proposal to Ted.

I’m thinking something along the lines of:

“We the demographic of the DC sports and entertainment markets…”

Who else wants in this continental congress?

by Brainumbc on Feb 21, 2012 11:18 AM EST up reply actions  

Short answer: this team isn’t good enough to do that.

There’s not enough talent in the Top 6 to go back to the Caps style of play from 2-3 seasons ago. That being said, if the Caps truly embodied the style of play that the Caps played in late 90’s, it would probably better suit their personnel. Win battles along the boards and in front of the net, and most of all, get pucks on goal. The sexy word of today seems to be “identity,” so if this is an identity, it’s not unique at all, but it’s what the good teams all are able to do. In addition, if you want to play a suffocating defensive style of hockey, you either need a top shut down pair that can contain the league’s top lines, or have a defensive system that everyone is committed to.

From a roster building standpoint, GMGM needs to be in contact with Wideman’s agent discussing at least a ballpark dollar amount for a contract extension beyond this season. It’s not that he isn’t worth it, but I just don’t see how this team can afford to give him 5+ million a year without getting rid of Hamrlik or Ward at the deadline. If Wideman isn’t back next year, he needs to be moved for future assets. Vokoun on the other hand, I’d hold onto because it’s more likely a goalie can get hot and bail this team out down the stretch. In addition, he’s more important to the bring back next year, IMO.

by UMDTerps3 on Feb 21, 2012 11:26 AM EST up reply actions  

Short answer: this team isn’t good enough to do that.

I don’t know. I think Nikki’s getting better. Ovi might not be able to hit 65 goals again, but if we get this whole “silly defense” nonsense out of his head and tell him to stop looking for the pass, he’ll just do what he used to do well. And if Knuble can’t keep up with 2 years ago, Troy probably can. And Green looks like he’s got a little mental rust defensively, but he looks to me like he can still get a rush going.

by Brainumbc on Feb 21, 2012 11:33 AM EST up reply actions  

Despite the blame falling on guys like Ovi, Nick, and Green, they’re not the biggest issue. It’s always been the supporting cast GMGM has put around those guys. Sure, it’s on those guys to lead by example on and off the ice, which is where Ovechkin catches a lot of flack, however, the successful teams always have their secondary players rise to the occasion.

Looking back at the teams who won the Cup, the Bruins had Brad Marchand. The Blackhawks were carried largely by their marquee players (Toews, Kane, Sharp, Keith & Seabrook), however, you could argue that Dave Bolland solidified himself as a good two-way player during the 09-10 playoffs, and was an integral part in their cup run. The Penguins the year before, like the Blackhawks, had their two best players (Malkin & Crosby) play extremely well, but veterans like Bill Guerin and Ruslan Fedotenko contributed more than just moral support in the locker room. And Detroit the year before, as well as year in and year out are always contenders, not just because of guys like Zetterberg and Datsyuk, but because of role players like Holmstrom, Filppula, and Helm.

The Caps aren’t built like any of those teams. Maybe Brooks Laich could be that guy, but his salary shows that he’s no longer an “under the radar” guy, but someone that this team is relying on to perform at a high level when the team needs it the most. I’ll give you that Brouwer probably can be one of these guys, but offensively, he’s not bringing it right now. Joel Ward is being paid like he should be, but he’s getting 4th line minutes at 2nd liner’s salary. Matty P works with the cards he was dealt, but he’s not an NHL center on a cup contending team. MoJo has the tools, but he’s so out of sync with the game, and not quite physically there, that he can’t be someone you can count on night in and night out like he is now.

With a week to go before the deadline, it’s time for GMGM to sit down and give each player on this roster a hard look and determine if they have a spot on this team in the future. His biggest mistake this year was being a little too optimistic at where some of the younger players were in their development stages, but he can’t go back and fix that now. I’m convinced the best course of action is to shed salary, and use the offseason to find some guys who are more skilled, and bring different elements of play on a consistent basis.

by UMDTerps3 on Feb 21, 2012 11:56 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

...

That’s a well argued, well thought response, but if you think about it, it may be too much. This particular subtread is for us simple minded folk who say, “fuck being responsible, let’s just let the big guns have some fun for the rest of the season” :)

LET THEM ENTERTAIN US, AT LEAST!

ARE YOU NOT ENTERTAINED?!?!?

by Brainumbc on Feb 21, 2012 12:04 PM EST up reply actions  

No sweat, if anything, run and gun would help STH’s get more value on the secondary market for their tickets, as well as more free wings.

by UMDTerps3 on Feb 21, 2012 12:07 PM EST up reply actions  

ARE YOU NED FED?!?!? ARE YOU NOT FULL!

by Brainumbc on Feb 21, 2012 12:12 PM EST up reply actions  

If it’s entertainment provisioning you seek, I might suggest re-visiting the ice girls attire controversy of yester-year as well

I used to be a hockey player, but then I took an arrow in the knee

by Icebat on Feb 21, 2012 1:06 PM EST up reply actions  

if we get this whole "silly defense" nonsense out of his head and tell him to stop looking for the pass, he’ll just do what he used to do well.

I think it’s actually the opposite. Teams for years to play against Ovechkin tried to cycle to hem him into his own end. The Caps used to still be able to get the puck out, or, at least, maintain possession when they got the puck. Now, they likely don’t have possession to begin with, and are even worse at getting the puck out of their end, so Ovechkin ends up spending 50 seconds a shift standing in his own end regularly, and that won’t change if he cheats.

Red Line Station and @RedArmyLine, featuring coverage of the most frustrating team in the NHL
I believe in next year.

by red army line on Feb 21, 2012 1:12 PM EST up reply actions  

and that won’t change if he cheats.

I’m not so sure that’s always the case. If he cheats, he pulls the opponent’s right D-man off the blue line, which can free up some space in the defensive zone to break the puck out.

It doesn’t always work though…

I am a hockey fan first, and a Caps fan second.

by iwearstripes on Feb 21, 2012 1:37 PM EST up reply actions  

I see the issues as mostly down low. Guys like Brian Boyle and Brandon Prust are great at keeping the puck below the goal line. He may force the D to play a little more conservatively, but I don’t think that changes much unless the Caps’ D can force the cycle to eventually move above the faceoff dots.

Red Line Station and @RedArmyLine, featuring coverage of the most frustrating team in the NHL
I believe in next year.

by red army line on Feb 21, 2012 2:18 PM EST up reply actions  

The Caps seem fairly decent at getting the puck in their zone, they just can’t seem to get it out. Maybe they would be better off going for lob home runs to a cherry picker.

"Money talks. I listen."

by apk3000 on Feb 21, 2012 3:22 PM EST up reply actions  

I wasn’t able to watch last-night’s game (luckily) but prior to that in recent games they definitely were trying just that, setting up those home-run/breakout attempts with Ovi, and on the PK with Chimera trying to streak past the PP point men (They tried that part under Boudreau as well). Maybe such adjustments caused Ovi and others to regress out of the team-plan? The simple message getting complicated with exceptions(?)

I was happy with how they were playing most of the time in the games surrounding and including the Rangers game, many of those games they did lose yes. A lot of offensive presence/zone time, hard work, people on the same page. A lot of posts hit, un-screened shots stopped, and chances missed. The scoring/winning recession did not start with this administration or system, but scoring/winning sure does make up for a lot.

I used to be a hockey player, but then I took an arrow in the knee

by Icebat on Feb 21, 2012 3:37 PM EST up reply actions  

Dave Hodge at TSN re Ovie’s leaving last night’s game:

@TSNDaveHodge: Ovie left because he thought Hunter said to play wide-open and pretend it’s the All-Star Game.

Har-dee har-har, Dave.

by S h a g g y on Feb 21, 2012 11:13 AM EST reply actions  

000

"Now fair's fair Henry. If I nail Hotlips and punch Hawkeye, can I go home too?

Now Dropping Bombs at Capitals Outsider

Twitter
Ron and Fez 11 to 3

by YvonLabresMoustache on Feb 21, 2012 11:15 AM EST up reply actions  

From Boswell’s WaPo chat, kind of amazing – he’s at Nats spring training (and the typos are his)

The whole transsition to the Hunter style has them flummoxed. The first question I got in the Nats clubhouse was, “What’s wwrong with the Caps. They look awful. Is McPhee going to be fired?”

"The Caps fan doesn't say, 'is the glass half full' or 'is the glass half empty'. He wonders when the glass is going to spill."

by gfcaps fan on Feb 21, 2012 11:26 AM EST reply actions  

It’s been about 10 season since the Caps have had a seasoned head coach. Ron Wilson was the last Caps coach with any NHL head coaching experience (4 years with the Ducks). He was followed by Butch, Hanlon, and BB.

I would have liked to see GMGM replace BB with a veteran NHL coach rather than yet another “rookie” NHL coach.

"I’d still like to see us show some fight and get on the board a few times here." - Davethecapsfan

by hotdog88gt on Feb 21, 2012 11:30 AM EST reply actions  

I would have liked to see GMGM replace BB with a veteran NHL coach rather than yet another "rookie" NHL coach.

I agree, especially in hindsight.

"By far the worst performers on the (R*dskins) are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins

by smutsboy1 on Feb 21, 2012 11:37 AM EST up reply actions  

Would that have been an improvement? The problem with the team is there is currently no center that is truly NHL caliber playing on the team and a complete lack of scorers.

DH32 may not have earned another year but he certainly hasn’t shown he doesn’t deserve another year. I think GMGM himself is more of an issue right now than DH32. The lack of pivots is showing to be a huge issue.

Comrades, leave me here a little, while as yet 't is early morn:
Leave me here, and when you want me, sound upon the bugle-horn

by sydtron on Feb 21, 2012 12:48 PM EST up reply actions  

If you got a seasoned head coach that knew what buttons to push with Ovi you might have seen some better results even with everything else equal.

BB got by harnessing his energy to cover up sloppy technique. Dale (or GMGM-through-Dale) seems to be emphasizing technique that’s a bad fit. Finding a veteran coach with more experience in this type of situation might be able to close the gap between old-Ovi and now-Ovi a little more.

This team can do a lot with a little when Ovi is an MVP-level player.

by brs03 on Feb 21, 2012 12:52 PM EST up reply actions  

Many, many people have tried to push Ovie’s buttons. Apart from floater-whisperers like Nolan or Babcock, I don’t see anyone having any additional insight into Ovechkin.

Comrades, leave me here a little, while as yet 't is early morn:
Leave me here, and when you want me, sound upon the bugle-horn

by sydtron on Feb 21, 2012 1:02 PM EST up reply actions  

That doesn’t mean there’s no right answer to him, though. If he’s physically capable of being something like what he used to be, it’s a question of getting him there mentally.

by brs03 on Feb 21, 2012 1:04 PM EST up reply actions  

It’s not that he needs to be what he used to be — he can’t; forwards start nosediving in points after 25. It’s that he isn’t compensating to justify his contract — floating/lazy backchecking and inability to adapt his offensive game to counteract his aging.

Comrades, leave me here a little, while as yet 't is early morn:
Leave me here, and when you want me, sound upon the bugle-horn

by sydtron on Feb 21, 2012 1:08 PM EST up reply actions  

That’s fair, but that’s still an issue of mentality. If he’s going to change his game they’ve got to find the right way to get through to him.

by brs03 on Feb 21, 2012 1:10 PM EST up reply actions  

To which I quote:

Some men you just can’t reach. So you get what we had here last week, which is the way he wants it… well, he gets it. I don’t like it any more than you men.

The only person that can fix Ovechkin is Ovechkin. That $10m contract says so.

Comrades, leave me here a little, while as yet 't is early morn:
Leave me here, and when you want me, sound upon the bugle-horn

by sydtron on Feb 21, 2012 1:15 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

We don’t really know that. He can clearly be influenced (Fedorov did a lot of good for him, he responds to his mama, etc.)

But if it’s true, if there’s no coach that can reach him and change him, then the Caps are boned.

by brs03 on Feb 21, 2012 1:17 PM EST up reply actions  

lol, someone with knowledge told me Fedorov was a terrible influence on the Russians.

Pledge Drive 2011-2012: CARSON KOLZIG FOUNDATION! Season Pledge total--$1328.52!

by RedBirdie on Feb 21, 2012 3:38 PM EST up reply actions  

I never bought the “Fedorov as great influence” angle.

He was a bit of a prima donna / malcontent on every team he played for, and he was notorious for his nightlife activities.

Unleash the Apathy.

by D'ohboy on Feb 21, 2012 3:53 PM EST up reply actions  

prima donna/malcontent didn’t come up, but his rock star lifestyle certainly did. And he was apparently all about sharing it with any of the younger guys who wanted to tag along.

Pledge Drive 2011-2012: CARSON KOLZIG FOUNDATION! Season Pledge total--$1328.52!

by RedBirdie on Feb 21, 2012 3:56 PM EST up reply actions  

Maybe that is what Ovie needs, a wingman. Or to be a wingman.

Comrades, leave me here a little, while as yet 't is early morn:
Leave me here, and when you want me, sound upon the bugle-horn

by sydtron on Feb 21, 2012 4:05 PM EST up reply actions  

When many of us were saying “fire Boudreau,” the common reply was “who would you hire in his place?” Is it fair to repeat that question in response to people who are saying “fire GMGM”?

Campaign Promises fantasy team: Hamrlik To Fall

by CapitalCentre on Feb 21, 2012 3:35 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Yes, and I feel like it’s a much more difficult question to answer with the GM position.

by Murshawursha on Feb 21, 2012 3:39 PM EST up reply actions  

I would be very curious to know what sort of GM ted would be looking for. Such a complete unknown, because he’s never hired one.

Pledge Drive 2011-2012: CARSON KOLZIG FOUNDATION! Season Pledge total--$1328.52!

by RedBirdie on Feb 21, 2012 3:41 PM EST up reply actions  

Agreed. I even think it might be harder simply to lay out the parameters of what sort of experience and technique the right candidate should have.

Campaign Promises fantasy team: Hamrlik To Fall

by CapitalCentre on Feb 21, 2012 3:46 PM EST up reply actions  

Right because there aren’t GMs in the AHL (well, there are, but it’s not really the same as in the NHL) and we don’t really know who different teams’ director of scouting or assistant GMs are (again, the information is available and maybe you know the names of the guys from your favorite teams, but not in general).

by RCheli on Feb 21, 2012 3:49 PM EST up reply actions  

Here’s a list from ESPN ($).

Red Line Station and @RedArmyLine, featuring coverage of the most frustrating team in the NHL
I believe in next year.

by red army line on Feb 21, 2012 6:13 PM EST up reply actions  

This whole identity discussion is going off track. So, I decided to check with my friends at dictionary.com.

Their definitions for identity focuses on condition, character, personality.

Their definitions of narrative center on a story.

I interpret this as follows —

  • Broad Street Bullies is an identity. That gets to the Flyers personality and character.
  • Having strong defense, but poor goaltending is a narrative.
  • Folding under pressure could be an identity, albeit not a very desirable one.
  • Hard working is an identity.
  • Making poor draft picks and paying them too much is a narrative.

Nice guys finish first, but sometimes the season is awfully long.
Follow me on Twitter.

by STLSpidey on Feb 21, 2012 11:33 AM EST reply actions  

Bourne breaks down perhaps the shittiest goal from last night:

http://blogs.thescore.com/nhl/2012/02/21/systems-analyst-swooping-forwards-and-soft-plays-with-the-puck-kill-the-capitals/

And the fact that you probably can’t decide which was the shittiest says a lot…

Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world

by J.P. on Feb 21, 2012 11:40 AM EST reply actions  

Wish we had someone that could do that. Get on it, D’oh.

Please, call me F&B.

by Rob Parker on Feb 21, 2012 11:45 AM EST up reply actions  

Wasn’t there another play where the guy from CAR pretty much had a tap in, but he decided to pass it to another player instead?

"Now fair's fair Henry. If I nail Hotlips and punch Hawkeye, can I go home too?

Now Dropping Bombs at Capitals Outsider

Twitter
Ron and Fez 11 to 3

by YvonLabresMoustache on Feb 21, 2012 11:46 AM EST up reply actions  

ouch.

"By far the worst performers on the (R*dskins) are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins

by smutsboy1 on Feb 21, 2012 11:48 AM EST up reply actions  

My tweet at the time:

So very pathetic. How many failed clears on that one?
Neil suggested that be the Noon Number today.

Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world

by J.P. on Feb 21, 2012 11:51 AM EST up reply actions  

This is where we miss Tom Poti and his vaunted puck-clearing ability.

"Now fair's fair Henry. If I nail Hotlips and punch Hawkeye, can I go home too?

Now Dropping Bombs at Capitals Outsider

Twitter
Ron and Fez 11 to 3

by YvonLabresMoustache on Feb 21, 2012 11:51 AM EST up reply actions  

Not just that play, the whole game.

by RCheli on Feb 21, 2012 11:53 AM EST up reply actions  

Yep. It was quite literally the worst zone-clearing I can remember ever seeing in an NHL hockey game.

Disclaimer: I can only remember 24 hours into the past.

Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world

by J.P. on Feb 21, 2012 11:54 AM EST up reply actions  

Last year’s Blackhawks present “Exhibit C”.

"Now fair's fair Henry. If I nail Hotlips and punch Hawkeye, can I go home too?

Now Dropping Bombs at Capitals Outsider

Twitter
Ron and Fez 11 to 3

by YvonLabresMoustache on Feb 21, 2012 12:00 PM EST up reply actions  

God…point three.

It’s an absolute miracle Chimera didn’t end up in the “quiet room”.

"Now fair's fair Henry. If I nail Hotlips and punch Hawkeye, can I go home too?

Now Dropping Bombs at Capitals Outsider

Twitter
Ron and Fez 11 to 3

by YvonLabresMoustache on Feb 21, 2012 11:51 AM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, total buddy pass by DWides.

Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world

by J.P. on Feb 21, 2012 11:52 AM EST up reply actions  

Maybe he thought it was Ovie and was trying to get him back for the practice “fight?”

by STLEdge on Feb 21, 2012 11:55 AM EST up reply actions  

That’s like one of those passes in football where a QB leads a WR too far on a crossing pattern and gets his brains splattered across the field by a Safety.

If I’m Chimera I’m taking a screencap of that and putting it in Wideman’s locker with the caption “You owe me”.

"Now fair's fair Henry. If I nail Hotlips and punch Hawkeye, can I go home too?

Now Dropping Bombs at Capitals Outsider

Twitter
Ron and Fez 11 to 3

by YvonLabresMoustache on Feb 21, 2012 11:57 AM EST up reply actions  

Gotta be the second one?

Going to check now and see if I’m right.

Patron saint of quality footwear.

by fat_daddyo on Feb 21, 2012 12:30 PM EST up reply actions  

Nope, 5th.

Patron saint of quality footwear.

by fat_daddyo on Feb 21, 2012 12:39 PM EST up reply actions  

Today’s Nooner is up. Go check it out… if you dare!

MWAHAHAHAHAHA!

Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world

by J.P. on Feb 21, 2012 12:07 PM EST reply actions  

Twitter seems to be full of stars out with ailments, unless some accounts have been suddenly hacked.

Toews, upper body (no futher detail). Datsyuk arthroscopic knee surgery.

"The Caps fan doesn't say, 'is the glass half full' or 'is the glass half empty'. He wonders when the glass is going to spill."

by gfcaps fan on Feb 21, 2012 12:49 PM EST reply actions  

Sucks for the Wings. Any timetable on Datsyuk? Might make them back into players again at the Deadline.

"Now fair's fair Henry. If I nail Hotlips and punch Hawkeye, can I go home too?

Now Dropping Bombs at Capitals Outsider

Twitter
Ron and Fez 11 to 3

by YvonLabresMoustache on Feb 21, 2012 12:52 PM EST up reply actions  

2-3 weeks is what I’m reading.

by brs03 on Feb 21, 2012 12:53 PM EST up reply actions  

Arthroscopic is just the knee clean-up right?

"Now fair's fair Henry. If I nail Hotlips and punch Hawkeye, can I go home too?

Now Dropping Bombs at Capitals Outsider

Twitter
Ron and Fez 11 to 3

by YvonLabresMoustache on Feb 21, 2012 12:54 PM EST up reply actions  

you’d be amazed what they can do artho these days. They do ACL reconstructions arthoscopically now.

2-3 does sound like cleaning up loose bodies. torn meniscus, perhaps?

Pledge Drive 2011-2012: CARSON KOLZIG FOUNDATION! Season Pledge total--$1328.52!

by RedBirdie on Feb 21, 2012 12:57 PM EST up reply actions  

Maybe they figured that since they’re a lock to make the dance, might as well get Datsyuk’s knee cleaned up now while they have the opportunity.

"Now fair's fair Henry. If I nail Hotlips and punch Hawkeye, can I go home too?

Now Dropping Bombs at Capitals Outsider

Twitter
Ron and Fez 11 to 3

by YvonLabresMoustache on Feb 21, 2012 12:58 PM EST up reply actions  

makes sense. No point in having him play on a balky knee and making it worse to the point where he’s useless in the playoffs.

Pledge Drive 2011-2012: CARSON KOLZIG FOUNDATION! Season Pledge total--$1328.52!

by RedBirdie on Feb 21, 2012 12:59 PM EST up reply actions  

Rangers and Canucks have game(s) in hand, but Wings are currently your Presidents’ Trophy winner, so I’d say they’re not worried about the playoffs.

"The Caps fan doesn't say, 'is the glass half full' or 'is the glass half empty'. He wonders when the glass is going to spill."

by gfcaps fan on Feb 21, 2012 1:01 PM EST up reply actions  

WHAT?!?! must not tell Mr. B this until after dinner.

Pledge Drive 2011-2012: CARSON KOLZIG FOUNDATION! Season Pledge total--$1328.52!

by RedBirdie on Feb 21, 2012 12:55 PM EST up reply actions  

What, he doesn’t have internet at work?

"The Caps fan doesn't say, 'is the glass half full' or 'is the glass half empty'. He wonders when the glass is going to spill."

by gfcaps fan on Feb 21, 2012 12:57 PM EST up reply actions  

he’s in training this week. Very limited internet access, when he gets access at all.

Pledge Drive 2011-2012: CARSON KOLZIG FOUNDATION! Season Pledge total--$1328.52!

by RedBirdie on Feb 21, 2012 1:00 PM EST up reply actions  

and now he’s seen it. Got a “WHAT THE HELL?!” text a moment ago.

Pledge Drive 2011-2012: CARSON KOLZIG FOUNDATION! Season Pledge total--$1328.52!

by RedBirdie on Feb 21, 2012 3:37 PM EST up reply actions  

Feels good to have company in your misery, doesn’t it?

"The Caps fan doesn't say, 'is the glass half full' or 'is the glass half empty'. He wonders when the glass is going to spill."

by gfcaps fan on Feb 21, 2012 3:44 PM EST up reply actions  

he pretty much reacted the same way we did about Laich’s knee. EVERYBODY PANIC!

Pledge Drive 2011-2012: CARSON KOLZIG FOUNDATION! Season Pledge total--$1328.52!

by RedBirdie on Feb 21, 2012 3:46 PM EST up reply actions  

And Ovechkin is off for a maintenance day. Not because he was limping last night, definitely not.

"The Caps fan doesn't say, 'is the glass half full' or 'is the glass half empty'. He wonders when the glass is going to spill."

by gfcaps fan on Feb 21, 2012 1:02 PM EST reply actions  

You perhaps knew me better as "Your Nation's Capital." Same great commentary, now with 100% more transparency!

by EmilyB on Feb 21, 2012 1:23 PM EST up reply actions  

A small favor

Can someone find me an online clip of the film session from last year’s Caps vs. Pens 24/7 show? Remember the part where Boudreau talks about getting under Malkin’s skin, and Bylsma says that Neuvirth gives up rebounds?

Any help is appreciated.

Unleash the Apathy.

by D'ohboy on Feb 21, 2012 3:02 PM EST reply actions  

That’s Episode 3, fwiw.

You perhaps knew me better as "Your Nation's Capital." Same great commentary, now with 100% more transparency!

by EmilyB on Feb 21, 2012 3:24 PM EST up reply actions  

This also appears to be the one for which there are no youtube clips.

Unleash the Apathy.

by D'ohboy on Feb 21, 2012 3:34 PM EST up reply actions  

Of course.

Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world

by J.P. on Feb 21, 2012 3:36 PM EST up reply actions  

Blysma had them pull that episode so Neuvy couldn’t pump himself up watching the “He’s shaky” clip any more.

Pledge Drive 2011-2012: CARSON KOLZIG FOUNDATION! Season Pledge total--$1328.52!

by RedBirdie on Feb 21, 2012 3:39 PM EST up reply actions  

Is that the pre-game clip that goes straight into Bylsma announcing the lineup?

"You do that, you go to the box, you know. Two minutes, by yourself, and you... feel shame" -Denis Lemieux

by leacha on Feb 21, 2012 3:43 PM EST up reply actions  

This is a tough and disappointing time for all us Caps fans but I think the discussion points to three certain conclusions: 1) the under-performance of our Guns (injuries or middling play) is the single biggest factor in our woeful state this year, 2) per the wonderful stats and analyses put forward virtually daily over the season by JP, Neil, Rob, other posters, etc. the balance of the roster is not a Stanley Cup caliber team in the Guns’ absence, 3) personal favorites aside, it appears the coaching might not be a major factor in wins/losses so far (at least not yet). So, if there is agreement about those three then it seems to me that the immediate action plan is a personnel overhaul that better complements the skills of a new ‘core’ going forward: Ovi, Nicky, Greener (if healthy), Carlzner, Orlov, Brouwer, Neuvy/Holtby. Every other player is tradeable, and if a consequence of any dealings in pursuit of that goal means we don’t make the playoffs this year then so be it….as hard as it is to write that.

You're right; I don't know what I am talking about.

by Wilderthing on Feb 21, 2012 3:26 PM EST reply actions  

So some people think DH should be fired, and some think GMGM could get fired too. What are the odds that a new GM comes in and Hunter stays? I’m thinking pretty low because it seems a major reason Hunter was hired was that he’s a Caps legend and GMGM likes to reward his soldiers. A new GM won’t have that. Oh, and the fact that his team kinda sucks. I think there’s a better chance of both staying than both going, though.

by hockeyman33 on Feb 21, 2012 3:26 PM EST reply actions  

What are the odds that a new GM comes in and Hunter stays

Depends, is the new GM Rod Langway?

Just trying to capture the spirit of the thing...

by dcsportsfan1 on Feb 21, 2012 4:54 PM EST up reply actions  

Alan May.

You perhaps knew me better as "Your Nation's Capital." Same great commentary, now with 100% more transparency!

by EmilyB on Feb 21, 2012 5:02 PM EST up reply actions  

Huzzah! Per McKenzie, Downie just got traded to Colorado.

"The Caps fan doesn't say, 'is the glass half full' or 'is the glass half empty'. He wonders when the glass is going to spill."

by gfcaps fan on Feb 21, 2012 3:52 PM EST reply actions   1 recs

Awkwaaaaaaaaaaard.

Reporter: "What’s your Mom’s birthday?"
Tortorella: "I have no idea."

by Wheeler on Feb 21, 2012 3:56 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Varly’s year going from bad to worse?

"The Caps fan doesn't say, 'is the glass half full' or 'is the glass half empty'. He wonders when the glass is going to spill."

by gfcaps fan on Feb 21, 2012 4:00 PM EST up reply actions  

Downie out of the SE division and in the other Conference, sounds good.

And one more reason to root against Colorado, ok. (like a few players on the team, but for Caps draft pick reasons, obviously rooting for Colorado to finish low in the standings.)

by sk84fun_dc on Feb 21, 2012 6:31 PM EST up reply actions  

McKenzie just tweeted that TB traded Downie to Colorado. I feel like having a party! No details yet though.

Failure is always an option.

by timmyv38 on Feb 21, 2012 3:53 PM EST reply actions  

hallelujah!

Pledge Drive 2011-2012: CARSON KOLZIG FOUNDATION! Season Pledge total--$1328.52!

by RedBirdie on Feb 21, 2012 3:57 PM EST up reply actions  

Kyle Quincey heading to Tampa.

Nice guys finish first, but sometimes the season is awfully long.
Follow me on Twitter.

by STLSpidey on Feb 21, 2012 4:07 PM EST up reply actions  

so, the Great Sell-Off of 2012 begins? (please please please please please!)

Pledge Drive 2011-2012: CARSON KOLZIG FOUNDATION! Season Pledge total--$1328.52!

by RedBirdie on Feb 21, 2012 4:08 PM EST up reply actions  

This deal really doesn’t make sense from Colorado’s perspective. I guess they save some money, but they were already near the cap floor. They’re stacked with defensemen, but after Grossman got the return he did, I can’t believe Quincey just brought back Downie.

Really confounding.

Unleash the Apathy.

by D'ohboy on Feb 21, 2012 4:13 PM EST up reply actions  

That seems to be the majority opinion on Twitter as well. If there was a good pick going from Tampa Bay to Colorado, I could understand it – but straight up?

Failure is always an option.

by timmyv38 on Feb 21, 2012 4:18 PM EST up reply actions  

Change in Plans --From Bob McK
I am now hearing TB has traded Kyle Quincey to DET. Working on details but sounds like Quincey to DET for a first-round pick. Verifying

by Rather Bengt on Feb 21, 2012 4:18 PM EST reply actions  

Goddamit Bob!!! Get it right. These are people’s lives we’re dealing with!

Nice guys finish first, but sometimes the season is awfully long.
Follow me on Twitter.

by STLSpidey on Feb 21, 2012 4:20 PM EST up reply actions  

He may have gotten it right. But TB got Quincey and shipped him to DET for a 1st rounder.

by Rather Bengt on Feb 21, 2012 4:21 PM EST up reply actions  

That should cheer Quincey up. Getting traded from a bubble team to a non-contender to the 1st place team.

Failure is always an option.

by timmyv38 on Feb 21, 2012 4:24 PM EST up reply actions  

If so…. that was quick. So it essentially ends up as Downie for a late 1st-rounder… talk about a steal.

Failure is always an option.

by timmyv38 on Feb 21, 2012 4:20 PM EST up reply actions  

dammit. I don’t want Detroit to get better!

Pledge Drive 2011-2012: CARSON KOLZIG FOUNDATION! Season Pledge total--$1328.52!

by RedBirdie on Feb 21, 2012 4:23 PM EST up reply actions  

So Tampa gets a first round pick for Downie? Who is that good for?

Nice guys finish first, but sometimes the season is awfully long.
Follow me on Twitter.

by STLSpidey on Feb 21, 2012 4:23 PM EST up reply actions  

Everyone involved except Colorado.

Failure is always an option.

by timmyv38 on Feb 21, 2012 4:25 PM EST up reply actions  

If Steve Downie is worth basically a 1st round pick can we please trade Wideman for every single pick of next year’s draft

Comrades, leave me here a little, while as yet 't is early morn:
Leave me here, and when you want me, sound upon the bugle-horn

by sydtron on Feb 21, 2012 4:24 PM EST up reply actions   2 recs

Downie’s RFA, Wideman’s UFA. But you knew that.

"The Caps fan doesn't say, 'is the glass half full' or 'is the glass half empty'. He wonders when the glass is going to spill."

by gfcaps fan on Feb 21, 2012 4:36 PM EST up reply actions  

Which could make Wideman more valuable to some teams and less valuable to others.

Nice guys finish first, but sometimes the season is awfully long.
Follow me on Twitter.

by STLSpidey on Feb 21, 2012 4:37 PM EST up reply actions  

Right. Downie’s been good on a line with elite players in TB (cough, cough), so if it transfers, it could be a win for Colorado. Have no idea how Quincey’s been, but if he’s any good, Detroit ends up a big winner going forward, bolstering the defense.

But, Yzerman was obviously doing Detroit a favor as the intermediary; I doubt Detroit and Colorado would have made the deal straight up.

"The Caps fan doesn't say, 'is the glass half full' or 'is the glass half empty'. He wonders when the glass is going to spill."

by gfcaps fan on Feb 21, 2012 4:41 PM EST up reply actions  

Colorado doesn’t HAVE a first to give, for starters.

And Li’l Stevie Y lending a hand to Detroit, who would guess?

You perhaps knew me better as "Your Nation's Capital." Same great commentary, now with 100% more transparency!

by EmilyB on Feb 21, 2012 4:44 PM EST up reply actions  

Colorado doesn’t HAVE a first to give, for starters.

Oh, yeah, there is that. ;)

"The Caps fan doesn't say, 'is the glass half full' or 'is the glass half empty'. He wonders when the glass is going to spill."

by gfcaps fan on Feb 21, 2012 5:01 PM EST up reply actions  

BTW, you have it backwards. Detroit gave up the first to Tampa. So it would have been Quincey for Detroit’s first to COL.

"The Caps fan doesn't say, 'is the glass half full' or 'is the glass half empty'. He wonders when the glass is going to spill."

by gfcaps fan on Feb 21, 2012 5:27 PM EST up reply actions  

it could be a win for Colorado

No. Just. . . no.

Unleash the Apathy.

by D'ohboy on Feb 21, 2012 4:44 PM EST up reply actions  

As Bob Mck said about Quincey’s worth to the Wings:

DET likes/knows Quincey, former Wing. Good insurance if Brad Stuart goes to UFA or Lidstrom retires, tho many in DET think Nick comes back.

by Rather Bengt on Feb 21, 2012 4:53 PM EST up reply actions  

I dunno who being a UFA makes him more valuable to. If he’s an RFA, you can trade him in the summer and get value back. As a UFA, he’s worthless in July unless you can sign him.

I am a hockey fan first, and a Caps fan second.

by iwearstripes on Feb 21, 2012 5:23 PM EST up reply actions  

Don’t want to be Greg sherman today.

Or any day, for that matter.

But really not today.

You perhaps knew me better as "Your Nation's Capital." Same great commentary, now with 100% more transparency!

by EmilyB on Feb 21, 2012 4:25 PM EST up reply actions  

Is he always this bad? Or just when dealing with the SE?

Failure is always an option.

by timmyv38 on Feb 21, 2012 4:26 PM EST up reply actions  

Always.

You perhaps knew me better as "Your Nation's Capital." Same great commentary, now with 100% more transparency!

by EmilyB on Feb 21, 2012 4:27 PM EST up reply actions  

That turd burglar needs to be fired. Yesterday.

Unleash the Apathy.

by D'ohboy on Feb 21, 2012 4:29 PM EST up reply actions  

A race to the bottom between him and Pierre Gauthier.

You perhaps knew me better as "Your Nation's Capital." Same great commentary, now with 100% more transparency!

by EmilyB on Feb 21, 2012 4:30 PM EST up reply actions  

As of July 2nd anyway.

"You do that, you go to the box, you know. Two minutes, by yourself, and you... feel shame" -Denis Lemieux

by leacha on Feb 21, 2012 5:24 PM EST up reply actions  

…after giving the Capitals Stastny and Duchene for Semin and Wideman.

Red Line Station and @RedArmyLine, featuring coverage of the most frustrating team in the NHL
I believe in next year.

by red army line on Feb 21, 2012 6:15 PM EST up reply actions  

Bob McKenzie @TSNBobMcKenzie
DET also trades minor leaguer Sebastien Piche to TB as part of the Kyle Quincey trade.

Failure is always an option.

by timmyv38 on Feb 21, 2012 4:29 PM EST up reply actions  

Anyone know anything about him?

Failure is always an option.

by timmyv38 on Feb 21, 2012 4:30 PM EST up reply actions  

Sebastien Piche is actually a Quebecois brand of puck bag.

Unleash the Apathy.

by D'ohboy on Feb 21, 2012 4:30 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Looks like he’s an offensive defenseman who’s spent the majority of his post QMJHL life (3 years) in the ECHL.

by RCheli on Feb 21, 2012 4:31 PM EST up reply actions  

I’m pretty sure it’s a contract move.

By my math, Detroit is at 51 contracts, with 2 slide rule eligible. They want to be able to take on another contract without shipping one out.

Piche almost certainly carries zero value beyond his possession of a standard player contract.

"You do that, you go to the box, you know. Two minutes, by yourself, and you... feel shame" -Denis Lemieux

by leacha on Feb 21, 2012 5:33 PM EST up reply actions  

CoLOLrado Avalanche

Seriously, the organization is run by sub-frittatas.

Unleash the Apathy.

by D'ohboy on Feb 21, 2012 4:27 PM EST reply actions  

And not the delicious sandwich kind.

Please, call me F&B.

by Rob Parker on Feb 21, 2012 4:35 PM EST up reply actions  

Holly Schnikes!! If Downie is worth a 1st, what are Vokoun and Wideman worth?

Nice guys finish first, but sometimes the season is awfully long.
Follow me on Twitter.

by STLSpidey on Feb 21, 2012 4:29 PM EST reply actions  

it’s going to be a total madhouse on deadline day, isn’t it? Awesome.

Pledge Drive 2011-2012: CARSON KOLZIG FOUNDATION! Season Pledge total--$1328.52!

by RedBirdie on Feb 21, 2012 4:31 PM EST up reply actions  

I really should take vacation that day, or at least work at home.

Nice guys finish first, but sometimes the season is awfully long.
Follow me on Twitter.

by STLSpidey on Feb 21, 2012 4:32 PM EST up reply actions  

C’mom GMGM….get busy.

You're right; I don't know what I am talking about.

by Wilderthing on Feb 21, 2012 4:33 PM EST up reply actions  

Hey!! You got an avatar. Way to go!!

Nice guys finish first, but sometimes the season is awfully long.
Follow me on Twitter.

by STLSpidey on Feb 21, 2012 4:33 PM EST up reply actions  

flavored vodka and smoked meat for everyone!

Pledge Drive 2011-2012: CARSON KOLZIG FOUNDATION! Season Pledge total--$1328.52!

by RedBirdie on Feb 21, 2012 4:34 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Yeah, sorry it took so long. Thanks for your help and earlier comments.

You're right; I don't know what I am talking about.

by Wilderthing on Feb 21, 2012 4:34 PM EST up reply actions  

It does fit “Wilderthing” tho’ I’m still hoping Ovi has left his wilder parts behind him.

Ovechkin on how he can help the team: "Score MOAR goals."

by capsyoungguns on Feb 21, 2012 6:57 PM EST up reply actions  

I arranged to have that day off. I just hope it’s worth it.

Failure is always an option.

by timmyv38 on Feb 21, 2012 4:34 PM EST up reply actions  

28th, right? I think my day is clear.

Pledge Drive 2011-2012: CARSON KOLZIG FOUNDATION! Season Pledge total--$1328.52!

by RedBirdie on Feb 21, 2012 4:40 PM EST up reply actions  

27

What doesnt kill you makes you stronger.

by BetterOffWith28 on Feb 21, 2012 4:40 PM EST up reply actions  

sheeeeeeeeeeeeeeit. Monday’s are always such a bad day at the office.

Pledge Drive 2011-2012: CARSON KOLZIG FOUNDATION! Season Pledge total--$1328.52!

by RedBirdie on Feb 21, 2012 4:41 PM EST up reply actions  

27th. Next Monday.

Failure is always an option.

by timmyv38 on Feb 21, 2012 4:40 PM EST up reply actions  

LeBrun
Tampa now has 2 first-rounders, 3 second-round rounders, and another second-rounder in either ‘12 or ’13 at Florida’s option (Kubina)

Stevie y’s making a play for Nash!!!1

"My favorite fan base in D.C. is United's. Period. The end." - Steinberg

Fair deal on a lease? Apparently accomplished, though the mission is not complete. Let's Keep United in DC and realize the dream of a stadium with local investment and incentives to US Soccer's greatest club franchise.

by Bald Pollack on Feb 21, 2012 4:45 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Suppose this is a miscommunication between Greg Sherman and his wife?

Mrs. Sherman: “Oh and one more thing?”
Greg Sherman: “Yes?” (as he runs out the door…)
Mrs. Sherman: “Can you get some Downy? We’re almost out…”

Greg only hears the first part of what his wife says…

Occasionally reporting from Section 421 of the Verizon Center...

by MikeL-Pivonka on Feb 21, 2012 5:13 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Here’s a question..I happened to listen in to the Puck Daddy radio spot today because the teaser said they would talk about the Caps. They did, but what really flummoxed me was when one of the pundits (Marek?) confessed that he, and he thought everyone who was not a Capitals fan, took perverse pleasure in watching Washington fail. They both agreed that the whole league would celebrate when we don’t make the play-offs.
I can understand Pittsburgh, or Philly but everyone???? Seriously?
Should I consider the source?

by KSR17 on Feb 21, 2012 4:42 PM EST reply actions  

Sure. Ovechkin is hyped a lot in the league, and a lot of people don’t like it. It’s a team that, to many people’s eyes, don’t play the “right way” (whatever that means), and they like to see those types of teams fail.

by RCheli on Feb 21, 2012 4:44 PM EST up reply actions  

I’m sure NY would be happy as well… No clue why they’d say everyone.

What doesnt kill you makes you stronger.

by BetterOffWith28 on Feb 21, 2012 4:45 PM EST up reply actions  

They’ll miss all the Japers’ links, I’m telling you now.

You perhaps knew me better as "Your Nation's Capital." Same great commentary, now with 100% more transparency!

by EmilyB on Feb 21, 2012 4:46 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

I lived in the Boston market until a couple of months ago and watched a lot of game coverage from the Canadian market as well and the team was vilified often because a) players perceived to be ego-centric b) BB was too bombastic and c) TL was promising too much (setting the organization up to fail and causing others to rejoice). Oh, and Crosby is the “good” guy – the Canadian boy – while Ovechkin was set up as the “bad” guy – the Russian machine never break.

Oh this young man has had a very trying rookie season, with the litigation, the notoriety, his subsequent deportation to Canada and that country's refusal to accept him...

by Steve47 on Feb 21, 2012 4:48 PM EST up reply actions  

Interesting you mentioned Ted Leonesis over promising, you could be spot on.

What doesnt kill you makes you stronger.

by BetterOffWith28 on Feb 21, 2012 4:53 PM EST up reply actions  

I have lived on both coasts while being a Caps fanatic. For what its worth, I don’t recall ever hearing anything about TL. In fact, if anything surprised me it was how little interest there was in the Caps in these areas. (Even among hockey writers….can you imagine Nicky ranked 93rd by a hockey ‘expert?’!!) As to animosity, my opinion is that its 80% Ovi…unfortunately. I never understood it; nor do I now. I’m biased but he brought such a thrill to the game that benefited every team and, yet, there are so many people who want him and, therefore, the Caps to fail. It makes no sense but I think that explains a lot of it. And, then, of course there is the Crosby issue but I just had lunch so I don’t want to discuss that.

You're right; I don't know what I am talking about.

by Wilderthing on Feb 21, 2012 5:16 PM EST up reply actions  

In my area of CA, the Caps have gotten more press ( usually good) the past few years. There are lots of Ovie fans too in my hometown, an area that barely knew hockey existed. Gretzky who?

(Yes, I know about the avatar hounding - just pretend mine is invisible.)

by oldemystix on Feb 21, 2012 5:19 PM EST up reply actions  

That’s nice to hear.

You're right; I don't know what I am talking about.

by Wilderthing on Feb 21, 2012 5:27 PM EST up reply actions  

because Washington crashed the party and they did it in a way that made the rest of the league look foolish. They made hockey look fun and easy and one giant party and don’t you know hockey is VERY SERIOUS BUSINESS?

the Caps, no doubt, have shot themselves in the foot a number of times, but I don’t think it’s a coincidence that the game is being called in such a way to strangle the life out of Boudreau hockey. it’ll be interesting to see when the backlash starts against Anaheim.

Pledge Drive 2011-2012: CARSON KOLZIG FOUNDATION! Season Pledge total--$1328.52!

by RedBirdie on Feb 21, 2012 4:50 PM EST up reply actions   3 recs

I wouldn’t hold my breath – not enough Russians there.

by Gin and Tonic on Feb 21, 2012 5:23 PM EST up reply actions  

#Blackhawks acquire future considerations from Tampa Bay in exchange for Rockford forward Brandon Segal.

Tampa Bay is busy today.

Failure is always an option.

by timmyv38 on Feb 21, 2012 5:04 PM EST reply actions  

Is that strictly an AHL deal, or does he have upside?

"The Caps fan doesn't say, 'is the glass half full' or 'is the glass half empty'. He wonders when the glass is going to spill."

by gfcaps fan on Feb 21, 2012 5:06 PM EST up reply actions  

He’s 28. I don’t think there’s much of an upside there.

by RCheli on Feb 21, 2012 5:07 PM EST up reply actions  

Thanks. That was much easier than looking it up myself. ;)

"The Caps fan doesn't say, 'is the glass half full' or 'is the glass half empty'. He wonders when the glass is going to spill."

by gfcaps fan on Feb 21, 2012 5:09 PM EST up reply actions  

Age 28 and less than 100 NHL games… not much there.

Occasionally reporting from Section 421 of the Verizon Center...

by MikeL-Pivonka on Feb 21, 2012 5:10 PM EST up reply actions  

He’s played some in the NHL – 92 games, 11G, 11A, 79 PIMS. 4th liner, maybe?

Failure is always an option.

by timmyv38 on Feb 21, 2012 5:09 PM EST up reply actions  

Barely…

Occasionally reporting from Section 421 of the Verizon Center...

by MikeL-Pivonka on Feb 21, 2012 5:09 PM EST up reply actions  

More likely, he’ll be an AHLer. Probably why he was traded for “future considerations” – whatever that actually means.

Failure is always an option.

by timmyv38 on Feb 21, 2012 5:11 PM EST up reply actions  

Chicago needed to offload a contract, maybe?

"The Caps fan doesn't say, 'is the glass half full' or 'is the glass half empty'. He wonders when the glass is going to spill."

by gfcaps fan on Feb 21, 2012 5:13 PM EST up reply actions  

Somewhat amusing – his first 2 NHL games were with the Bolts.

Failure is always an option.

by timmyv38 on Feb 21, 2012 5:10 PM EST up reply actions  

According to Bob McK’s retweet the future considerations is F Matt Fornataro.

Fornataro’s hockeydb page

by Rather Bengt on Feb 21, 2012 5:14 PM EST up reply actions  

Somebody call the Tribune! Stop the presses!

by RCheli on Feb 21, 2012 5:15 PM EST up reply actions  

So just a swap of AHLers, it appears.

Failure is always an option.

by timmyv38 on Feb 21, 2012 5:15 PM EST up reply actions  

Caps-related note: Fornataro played with the ECHL Stingrays in 2009-2010 and was the 6th leading scorer.

by Rather Bengt on Feb 21, 2012 5:16 PM EST up reply actions  

@erlendssontrib

While saying he knows it’s a business Steven Stamkos said it’s difficult to see good friend Steve Downie dealt today, they were road roomies

You perhaps knew me better as "Your Nation's Capital." Same great commentary, now with 100% more transparency!

by EmilyB on Feb 21, 2012 5:36 PM EST reply actions  

I looked for the Hockey News feature story about them from a few years ago, but it’s not online.

That'll make your weagle wink!
"You're the boss, apple sauce" - @GreenLife52

by boutros23 on Feb 21, 2012 5:40 PM EST up reply actions  

You’d think with the contract he has, Stamkos could afford his own hotel room.

Occasionally reporting from Section 421 of the Verizon Center...

by MikeL-Pivonka on Feb 22, 2012 9:09 AM EST up reply actions  

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

A Washington Capitals blog from the most powerful city in the world

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recent FanPosts

Small
Washington Capitals Contract & Draft Info. - 2012 Offseason
Monkey_small
Collecting on that 2nd Rounder for Varlamov
File3551291133107_small
Let's Show Some Love for the Captain
Puck_bunny_by_qwerty3png_small
Pledge Drive 2011-2012 Wrap up
2438624750100337552s425x425q85_small
Offseason moves?
Gould_small
I'm Proud of the Washington Capitals
Me_and_a_late_friend_small
Round 2 Bold Predictions: Let's Review!
Jp_avatar_2_small
Braden Holtby's Family Gets More Interesting By The Minute
Hockeyjerseys1-99_small
Win Tonight
N1230931879_30909553_5511_small
Alex Semin: Gettin' Paid (With Fancy Charts!)

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >

FanShots

Quick hits of video, photos, quotes, chats, links and lists that you find around the web.

Recent FanShots

OT Hockey 5/27
OT Hockey 5/25
Will lack of national discussion cause NBA, NHL playoffs to suffer?
Caps Signed Hockey Sticks
Dean Evason talks wristers in the May 28, 2012 issue of ESPN The Mag. (Click here for a larger version)
Semin's Agent Says Sasha's Uninterested in Staying
"My legs felt good and I wanted to be dangerous with the puck every time,"...
Oh well. Season's over... (via Mr. I, via @bruce_arthur)
NYC game 7 viewing
Game 7 in Manila?

+ New FanShot All FanShots >

More great SB Nation Blogs

The Vault

Guidelines_medium Cap_side2_medium Draft_side2_medium Exchange_medium Cba_side2_medium Rules_side32_medium


Managing Editor

Jp_avatar_2_small J.P.

Associate Editors

Witt_small David Getz

At_kettler_small Becca H

Avatar_small Kareem E.

Golf_murphy_small Rob Parker

Ad34hihocwl0x15cmoubvuxdb-ehczsv8ag3k6qkujpodapllokm7crajbsbss2axbdk11fp2iur8jkoxdxmitirvrgrctxufboskj7xu4bwhtulx7o19cm_small Stephen Pepper

Captain-c_small EmilyB

Contributors

Ov_avatar_small tuvanhillbilly

Moderators

600full-fear-and-loathing-in-las-vegas-screenshot_small Bald Pollack

Gould_small Gould Old Days

79c29_small Knee high to a duck

4140101486_small Rink Moderators