The Southeast Division's Top Ten Goaltenders

by Becca H on Sep 22, 2011 11:00 AM EDT

We've looked at the centers of the Southeast. We've counted down the wingers. We've ranked the defenseman. Now it's on to the last line of defense, the lunatic fringe of the Southeast Division: the goalies. And away we go...

Honorable Mention: Jacob Markstrom, Chris Mason

10. Brian Boucher (Carolina Hurricanes)
Last year's rank: N/A

	GP	MIN	W	L	O	GA	GAA	SA	SV	SV%	SO
2010-2011	34	1885	18	10	4	76	2.42	902	826	.916	0

After riding starting goalie Cam Ward into the ground the last couple of years, the Hurricanes decided it was time to get him a legitimate NHL backup - so they went out and got Brian Boucher, who just about fulfills that requirement. Boucher's bounced around a bit in his career and has yet to find a consistency to his game, but he provides Ward with his best reliever since Martin Gerber. Maybe.

9. Scott Clemmensen (Florida Panthers)
Last year's rank: 6

	GP	MIN	W	L	O	GA	GAA	SA	SV	SV%	SO
2010-2011	31	1696	8	11	7	74	2.62	833	759	.911	1

It's no surprise that Clemmensen's 31 starts last season were the second-most in his career considering a good portion of that career was spent in New Jersey...a team that's been pretty set in net for a few years. He did a decent job backing up Tomas Vokoun last season, however, by also compiling the second-lowest GAA he's ever posted and a respectable (if not stellar) save percentage.

8. Braden Holtby (Washington Capitals)
Last year's rank: N/A

	GP	MIN	W	L	O	GA	GAA	SA	SV	SV%	SO
2010-2011	14	736	10	2	2	22	1.79	332	310	.934	2

Last year very few people outside the Caps’ organization – and parts of Saskatchewan – had heard of Braden Holtby. But within months of making his NHL debut, he had some people actually questioning whether he shouldn’t be the man between the pipes for a Stanley Cup hopeful. After a somewhat rocky start in his first callup, Holtby worked out some kinks and made the second one count, posting eye-popping numbers (in an admittedly small sample) to remind us that the future of Caps' goaltending is in very good hands.

7. Mathieu Garon (Tampa Bay Lightning)
Last year's rank: N/A

	GP	MIN	W	L	O	GA	GAA	SA	SV	SV%	SO
2010-2011	36	1938	10	14	6	88	2.72	887	799	.901	3

With two years in Columbus under his belt (where he achieved the somewhat unusual feat of having better numbers than the starting goalie), Garon heads south to help Tampa continue to shore up what was once their most vulnerable position. His three shutouts last year, including back-to-back goose eggs in early November, were the most he's had since the '07-'08 season.

6. Jose Theodore (Florida Panthers)
Last year's rank: N/A

	GP	MIN	W	L	O	GA	GAA	SA	SV	SV%	SO
2010-2011	32	1793	15	11	3	81	2.71	963	882	.916	1

One of many familiar faces for Cap fans on the new-look Panthers, Theodore heads to South Florida fresh off a season that saw him earn his lowest GAA in four years...and his best save percentage since before the lockout.

5. Michal Neuvirth (Washington Capitals)
Last year's rank: 7

	GP	MIN	W	L	O	GA	GAA	SA	SV	SV%	SO
2010-2011	48	2689	27	12	4	110	2.45	1283	1173	.914	4

After winning pretty much everywhere he'd played, Neuvirth came into training camp and made a statement when he essentially stole away the starter's job that was believed to be Semyon Varlamov's to lose. A few inconsistent performances and injuries aside, Neuvirth's rookie season was an excellent one - and from the sound of it, he's determined to challenge Vokoun for every start he can, hero worship be darned.

4. Ondrej Pavelec (Winnipeg Jets)
Last year's rank: 8

	GP	MIN	W	L	O	GA	GAA	SA	SV	SV%	SO
2010-2011	58	3225	21	23	9	147	2.73	1705	1558	.914	4

Despite a scary start to the season, Pavelec was impressive for the Thrashers last year and continued to establish himself as one of the League's better young goalies. He set career highs across the board, including doubling his shutout total from a season ago. Of course, two of those shutouts came against the Caps, a team against whom he posted a 3-1-0 record, a 0.984 save percentage and a GAA of 0.55. Ruh roh.

3. Dwayne Roloson (Tampa Bay Lightning)
Last year's rank: N/A

	GP	MIN	W	L	O	GA	GAA	SA	SV	SV%	SO
2010-2011	54	3199	24	25	5	138	2.59	1596	1458	.914	4

One of these days he's going to start playing as if he's in his forties...right?

2. Cam Ward (Carolina Hurricanes)
Last year's rank: 3

	GP	MIN	W	L	O	GA	GAA	SA	SV	SV%	SO
2010-2011	74	4318	37	26	10	184	2.56	2375	2191	.923	4

Nobody appeared in more games last season (and by extension faced more shots) than Cam Ward, and all he did over the course of that marathon was put up the best save percentage in the division while posting four shutouts to boot. You can argue whether or not he should be considered "elite" using the truest definition of the word, but he frustrated the hell out of some of the division's best snipers while keeping his team afloat - and that has to count for something.

1. Tomas Vokoun (Washington Capitals)
Last year's rank: 1

	GP	MIN	W	L	O	GA	GAA	SA	SV	SV%	SO
2010-2011	57	3224	22	28	5	137	2.55	1753	1616	.922	6

He's still got the best save percentage in the League since the lockout (a mark he shares with reigning Vezina winner Tim Thomas), along with the fifth-most shutouts and the tenth-highest win total during that span, despite playing on a team that consistently finished the season out of the playoffs. His six shutouts - including two against the Caps - were the most in the Southeast last season and tied him with the likes of Martin Brodeur, Antti Niemi and Pekka Rinne. Now let's see what he can do with a contending team in front of him...

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Comments

Good work again.

I think we’ll see Neuvy pull ahead of Ondrej soon enough.

1 and 2 are difficult. Voukon deserves the respect for being good on bad teams for so long. BUT Cam Ward is one of the best goalies in the league in my opinion. Originally from the Raleigh/Durham Area in NC I’ve watched Cam a lot, he keeps the canes in most games they have no business being in, and wins a lot for them as well. So, I’d but Ward at #1 and Tomas at #2

by aaw6848 on Sep 22, 2011 11:12 AM EDT reply actions

Vokoun at #1 is a good ranking. He’s been a top-10 goalie despite being on a bottom-10 team. Ward is great, but he’s had a significantly better team around him. With an elite team, Vokoun will have a chance to be truly dominant this season. However, I don’t see anyone else who can compete with those two for either of the top two spots.

My mind is all twisted like a peanut.

by timmyv38 on Sep 22, 2011 11:18 AM EDT up reply actions

absolutely they’re a 1A 1B situation in the SE. Maybe it is because Tomas has always been in the shadows of the NHL, but I see Ward as a Top Goalie in the league. Vokoun, for whatever reason, I just don’t see in the same light

by aaw6848 on Sep 22, 2011 11:23 AM EDT up reply actions

Ward also faces SO many more shots than Vokoun, and watchign Cam for years now play so many games and make so many saves a night; it just puts him on a different level for me.

by aaw6848 on Sep 22, 2011 11:25 AM EDT up reply actions

Ward only saw 2 more shots per game than Vokoun last season

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by RedBirdie on Sep 22, 2011 11:32 AM EDT up reply actions

Ward also faces SO many more shots than Vokoun

Uh, no he doesn’t.

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by J.P. on Sep 22, 2011 11:34 AM EDT up reply actions

Nobody appeared in more games last season (and by extension faced more shots) than Cam Ward, and all he did over the course of that marathon was put up the best save percentage in the division while posting four shutouts to boot.

How dare I use the Stats given to me in the Post!

by aaw6848 on Sep 22, 2011 11:42 AM EDT up reply actions

ah, but on a per-game basis, Vokoun and Ward face about the same number of shots. So Ward is not facing “SO many more shots” in each game. In fact, Ward only sees more over the course of the season because without Ward having to shoulder and Iron Man workload, Carolina would finish far lower than where they usually do. Never underestimate the need for a quality back-up goalie.

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by RedBirdie on Sep 22, 2011 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions

but I never said “in each game.” I totally meant what I said: Ward faces more shots, as well as playing in more games. More workload with similar results.

by aaw6848 on Sep 22, 2011 11:49 AM EDT up reply actions

If you look at the link JP posted, Vokoun has faced more shots over the last 4 seasons – despite Ward facing so many more last season. So your argument really has no basis.

My mind is all twisted like a peanut.

by timmyv38 on Sep 22, 2011 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions

Facts have a well-know Vokoun bias!

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by RedBirdie on Sep 22, 2011 11:51 AM EDT up reply actions

No. He faced more shots last year. He hasn’t over a larger sample.

And the results haven’t been similar other than last year (admittedly the most relevant of any single year, but still not enough from which to draw any grand conclusions).

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by J.P. on Sep 22, 2011 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions

maybe i’m considering other factors, like age, a little too much.

by aaw6848 on Sep 22, 2011 12:00 PM EDT up reply actions

It’s a factor, no doubt. And if it’s the reason Vokoun had a relatively rough 2010-11, we all could be in for bigtime heartbreak.

But my money’s on a bounce-back year. He’s not dead yet.

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by J.P. on Sep 22, 2011 12:03 PM EDT up reply actions

Maybe I’m adding to much reality to your fantasy trade, but I don’t think one should overlook their respective salaries, either.

"You just have a sense," Holland says. "The type of player you want, the type of situation you reference for your next game, you see it."

by Acer Jonesy's Laughker on Sep 22, 2011 12:07 PM EDT up reply actions

but I never said "in each game." I totally meant what I said: Ward faces more shots, as well as playing in more games.

I know this conversation has moved on, but if you’re going to look at the performance of each goaltender, you have to look at it on a per game basis, because a goaltender can play only one game at a time, and that’s when they face the shots.

Last year, Voukon faced an average of 33 shots per game, while Ward faced 32. Voukon played only 57 games last season, in comparison to Ward’s 74. While Cam definitely had many more games than Tomas, he did not face many more shots than him on a per game basis.

by Forsch31 on Sep 23, 2011 1:04 PM EDT up reply actions

Nice response. Not defensive or confrontational at all.

You claimed that Ward “faces SO many more shots than Vokoun,” which must mean, like, a lot more since you all-caps’d “so.” But the facts say otherwise. That’s all.

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by J.P. on Sep 22, 2011 11:49 AM EDT up reply actions

No intention in being confrontational. I’m used to caps and bolding things to make a point, not to scream on the internet. In the legal world it’s pretty common and kind of just rolls out of me.

I was given numbers above to compare a list of top 10 goalies, I used those numbers and found a reason to think one of the rankings was off a little. Forgive me.

by aaw6848 on Sep 22, 2011 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions

I also think you underestimate the powers of your own sarcasm, sir.

by aaw6848 on Sep 22, 2011 11:57 AM EDT up reply actions

Are you finished? Because if so, I’d like to get back to a substantive discussion.

I’ll readily concede that Ward had a better 2010-11 season than Vokoun did. But I maintain that Vokoun is the better goalie right now and likely in 2011-12. Obviously as the years go on, that’s likely to change. But it’s Vokoun-Ward 1-2 as of today.

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by J.P. on Sep 22, 2011 12:00 PM EDT up reply actions

Are you kidding me? My misconstrued sarcasm made you that upset? I’m sorry – no harm intended.

As I said above, I think you may have hit the nail and I may be thinking too much “big picture” about these two guys. Simply stating that I would take Cam Ward, in a trade straight up has more to do with the longevity as well as talents of ward moreso than “who is the better goalie for this season”

by aaw6848 on Sep 22, 2011 12:04 PM EDT up reply actions

Well, those (as well as salary, which would clearly favor Vokes) aren’t really relevant criteria for these rankings.

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by J.P. on Sep 22, 2011 12:06 PM EDT up reply actions

Yea, the firestorm I’ve created has made that clear to me. (SARCASM) Even conceding that THIS YEAR Vokoun is the better choice, I simply don’t think there is as large of a gap between the two as, “one is elite and the other isn’t.” But I guess that’s a different discussion.

by aaw6848 on Sep 22, 2011 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions

It might be a different discussion, but why not have it?

Vokoun, since the lockout, has the League’s 2nd-best SV% (by a hair), at .922. Cam Ward’s SV% is .909 over that same span. That’s 20th in the League (min. 200 games played). (Granted, including Ward’s first couple of seasons vs. Vokoun’s prime accounts for some of that discrepency.)

There’s no way on earth Cam Ward has ever been considered elite (other than for one specific two-month stretch). So the only question then is whether or not Vokoun is considered elite. I suppose reasonable minds could differ on that point – maybe he’s no longer elite after last season – but I don’t think there’s much question that his body of work has earned him “elite” status that can’t be washed away with one relatively sub-par (but still very good) year for a shit team.

In sum, yeah, there gap between the two based on what they’ve achieved in their respective careers, Stanley Cup notwithstanding, is plenty lart to consider one elite and the other second-tier.

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by J.P. on Sep 22, 2011 12:21 PM EDT up reply actions

There’s no way on earth Cam Ward has ever been considered elite (other than for one specific two-month stretch)

To me, every player has a point where they perform at a certain level over a span of time that launches them into the “elite” category, and whether other events happen that take them out of that category (be it injury, age or being on a piss poor team and having a bad record and taking a hit to your numbers), like you say about Vokoun:

…maybe he’s no longer elite after last season

He still performed well enough for long enough to be considered elite. And essentially taking a Conn Smythe winning playoff performance out of the equation is a bight of an oversight. Particularly when, looking at Wards still fantastic numbers during the seasons after ‘06 on the caliber of team he was on – with the workload he has. Of course this is all opinion, but I haven’t seen him “fall out” of that elite label just yet.

by aaw6848 on Sep 22, 2011 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions

how long ago was Wards Conn Smythe playoff run again? And that’s judged solely on the playoffs, not on the grueling regular season.

and if you want to drag “quality of team” into this, well…..Vokoun didn’t exactly have a lot to work with down there in Florida.

my bigger issue if I never saw Ward as elite, which, to me, implied a level of consistency Ward doesn’t display.

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by RedBirdie on Sep 22, 2011 1:13 PM EDT up reply actions

I didn’t mean to throw dirt on Vokoun, the panthers have also been pretty damn bad (worse, actually). I see, it again, may simply be how I define “elite” is different

by aaw6848 on Sep 22, 2011 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions

I wouldn’t trade any Capital for Cam Ward given that contract.

Obviously, this is all speculation.

by Rob Parker on Sep 22, 2011 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions

It is so obvious that Vokoun is the class of the division — it’s not even close. The only thing that you’d have to be concerned about is his health. While he’s never had any long-term injuries (or even a history of being dinged a lot), he’s 35, and that could be a concern.

Look at Brodeur. He still has all the talent. It’s just that his body is starting quit on him.

by RCheli on Sep 22, 2011 11:25 AM EDT reply actions

HHow have their relative work loads looked? And Vokoun has that blood thing. But yeah, I don’t see a battle for number 1. The disagreements I have are in the 9-HM range.

Obviously, this is all speculation.

by Rob Parker on Sep 22, 2011 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions

Brodeur by a mile. But I don’t know if it’s really workload related. I think it’s just age related. After a certain point, those little injuries that you used to be able to shake off put you out of games and on IR.

by RCheli on Sep 22, 2011 11:31 AM EDT up reply actions

I find it strange I’m the only one who thinks Cam Ward is tops in the league

by aaw6848 on Sep 22, 2011 11:33 AM EDT up reply actions

In the entire league? Or just the division?

You could argue for the SE (though I wouldn’t agree). But not in the whole NHL.

by RCheli on Sep 22, 2011 11:34 AM EDT up reply actions

Maybe I’m biased because I’ve seen him play so many times, but yes – I’d put him in the 5 spot in the entire league. Basing that on who I would pick for my fantasy team this year. Which I would assume is a good starting point for Top goalies for the coming year.

by aaw6848 on Sep 22, 2011 11:37 AM EDT up reply actions

ok. that wasn’t wholly true, the fantasy angle wasn’t exactly where I’m coming from. I’m just saying that TODAY, who would you take? Cam or Vokoun? I would take Cam

by aaw6848 on Sep 22, 2011 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions

You’re on an island, my friend.

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by J.P. on Sep 22, 2011 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions

Cam ward says NO!

"You just have a sense," Holland says. "The type of player you want, the type of situation you reference for your next game, you see it."

by Acer Jonesy's Laughker on Sep 22, 2011 11:41 AM EDT up reply actions

I would take Vokoun. He’s shown how good he can be without support – now he’s going to have one of the best teams on his side. I think he’ll have one of his best years.

My mind is all twisted like a peanut.

by timmyv38 on Sep 22, 2011 11:42 AM EDT up reply actions

Vokoun, easy.

Ward is great, but Vokoun is elite.

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by RedBirdie on Sep 22, 2011 11:43 AM EDT up reply actions

I can’t help but feel like if Ward wasn’t a SE division rival, people would have different attitudes. If I’m alone on this, I’m alone on it.

If we could trade vokoun for Ward straight up today, I’d do it.

by aaw6848 on Sep 22, 2011 11:44 AM EDT up reply actions

Everyone here respects his ability, so him being on a rival team has nothing to do with it. Last season, we ranked Vokoun as #1 despite him being on a rival team.

My mind is all twisted like a peanut.

by timmyv38 on Sep 22, 2011 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions

again, I said Ward is great. he’s just not quite elite. IMO.

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by RedBirdie on Sep 22, 2011 11:46 AM EDT up reply actions

If Ward was able to consistently put up numbers like he did last year people would have different attitudes. He hasn’t. Instead last year he had a career year that was still about on par with Vokoun’s season, which was a bit of a down year for him. Consistency is critical for goalies. Vokoun has shown it, Ward has not.

Release the Mackan!

by Killer_Carlson on Sep 22, 2011 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions

I hope you just mean in a fantasy league. Even if you can convince everyone (anyone) that Ward > Vokoun, there’s no way you can hold that position once you consider salaries.

Obviously, this is all speculation.

by Rob Parker on Sep 22, 2011 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions

How do you feel about MAF as a goalie? Your answer should be the exact same for Cam Ward. I don’t think either are elite. Both are good enough to not kill a very good team and have the potential to get hot and play great. Neither are in the “elite” range, IMO.

Obviously, this is all speculation.

by Rob Parker on Sep 22, 2011 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions

MAF is fine, but not the world’s greatest goaltender EVAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! that some people (not here) make him out to be. All things being equal, I’d rank Ward ahead of MAF, and both behind Vokoun.

why do I get the feeling you meant to respond to the post above mine?

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by RedBirdie on Sep 22, 2011 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions

It was just a general insertion into the thread, and another classic F&B Z-fail. RCheli beat me to the point.

Obviously, this is all speculation.

by Rob Parker on Sep 22, 2011 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions

we all z-fail once in a while.

actually, thinking about it more, I think MAF is barely above average. which is not to say he’s bad. But I don’t think he’s quite in the “great-but-not-elite” ground. And when he’s off his game, oof.

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by RedBirdie on Sep 22, 2011 4:47 PM EDT up reply actions

Would you call him the Alex Semin of goalies? :)

Everything ends badly...otherwise it wouldn't end.

by Davethecapsfan on Sep 22, 2011 4:53 PM EDT up reply actions

I’ll withhold judgment until I get tape of Semin calling his teammates “fucking fuckface” in practice :)

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by RedBirdie on Sep 22, 2011 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions

Hahaha

Everything ends badly...otherwise it wouldn't end.

by Davethecapsfan on Sep 22, 2011 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions

Cam Ward is Marc Andre Fleury. Both very good goalies who took their team to a Stanly Cup, but are still in the second tier of goalies in the league.

They’re not Miller or Lundqvist or Thomas or Rinne. They’re really good and most any team would want them as their starter, but they’re not elite.

by RCheli on Sep 22, 2011 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions

This. Ward is a solid goalie and gets huge credit from some corners for his Stanley Cup run (and justifiably so for those two months at least) and his 4-0 record in Game 7’s (except of course, it should be a more pedestrian 2-1 if Marty hadn’t shit the bed in the last minute and a half a few years ago). My issue with ranking him “elite” is his inability most seasons to carry a weaker team into the playoffs more often. Look at some of the Ranger teams Lundy has pushed into the playoffs the last couple of years. Yes, when the Canes make the playoffs they make deep runs but then they disappear from the postseason discussion for a few years at a time.

Everything ends badly...otherwise it wouldn't end.

by Davethecapsfan on Sep 22, 2011 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions

Look, if the Caps had Ward instead of Vokoun, there wouldn’t be a call to find someone better. He’s in the top half of NHL starting goalies (and that’s as elite as it is in this sport), and has the ability to carry a team.

I’d say the same about Fleury. Just because they’re not the BEST doesn’t mean that they’re not great players.

by RCheli on Sep 22, 2011 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions

I’m not saying they aren’t solid NHL starters, but I don’t rank them in the top 5 in the NHL. If you had them, you wouldn’t necessarily be looking to upgrade, but then again, if you had them and Vokoun offered to sign for $1.5 million…you’d still sign Vokoun wouldn’t you?

Everything ends badly...otherwise it wouldn't end.

by Davethecapsfan on Sep 22, 2011 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions

As a fan, in a heartbeat. As a GM, I’d probably use that money elsewhere.

But I’m not saying that Ward’s not good or Vokoun is awesome. I think the difference between them is marginal (in Vokoun’s favor) and either could be a Stanley Cup-winning goalie.

by RCheli on Sep 22, 2011 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions

I’ll buy that. For that price I don’t think I could say no. My main point in my reply was agreeing with you that Ward is much like Fleury in that he has shown a period of great play, and been solid otherwise but seems to be elevated in some people’s minds because of one 2 month span. Not suggesting at all that they aren’t good, just agreeing that they are second tier goalies in the league.

Everything ends badly...otherwise it wouldn't end.

by Davethecapsfan on Sep 22, 2011 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions

If you had them, you wouldn’t necessarily be looking to upgrade, but then again, if you had them and Vokoun offered to sign for $1.5 million…you’d still sign Vokoun wouldn’t you?

Well, we have a pretty good example (sample size one) that that isn’t necessarily the case – Ken Holland said no thanks to Vokoun and stuck with a guy who’s likely not even as good as Fleury or Ward.

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by J.P. on Sep 22, 2011 1:33 PM EDT up reply actions

True, but we have yet to see the results of that decision. And I wonder if Holland would sign Fleury or Ward either if they were in Vokoun’s spot. He may just have a lot of confidence in Howard.

Everything ends badly...otherwise it wouldn't end.

by Davethecapsfan on Sep 22, 2011 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions

I thought Ken Holland said “OK, but you’ll be backing up Jimmy.”

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by RedBirdie on Sep 22, 2011 1:51 PM EDT up reply actions

True enough (not sure it impacts the main point here, but true enough).

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by J.P. on Sep 22, 2011 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions

if I’m Tomas Vokoun, I’d feel insulted if I’m having to back up pretty-average Jimmy Howard. damn right I’d be shopping my services elsewhere.

And I would like to take this moment to thank Mr. Holland for making such a bonehead statement, if it’s true. Thank you, thank you, thank you!

Pledge Drive 2011-2012: CARSON KOLZIG FOUNDATION! Supporting autism awareness and treatment.

by RedBirdie on Sep 22, 2011 2:00 PM EDT up reply actions

We don’t know yet if it was boneheaded.

Everything ends badly...otherwise it wouldn't end.

by Davethecapsfan on Sep 22, 2011 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions

Impacts my point, I wasn’t suggesting you’d only sign Vokoun to his price tag as an upgrade over your starter, $1.5 mil isn’t a terrible price for a backup, especially one with Vokoun’s resume.

Of course, Vokoun likely had other plans.

Everything ends badly...otherwise it wouldn't end.

by Davethecapsfan on Sep 22, 2011 2:01 PM EDT up reply actions

Gotcha. I’d thought you meant that with guys like Ward/Fleury, you’d still sign Vokoun to be your #1. I don’t think there’s much doubt that he’s a better backup than either of those guys (or anyone else in any other league in the world) currently has.

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by J.P. on Sep 22, 2011 2:05 PM EDT up reply actions

Gotcha, yeah wasn’t making that claim.

Everything ends badly...otherwise it wouldn't end.

by Davethecapsfan on Sep 22, 2011 2:13 PM EDT up reply actions

I don’t think we should necessarily put words into Holland’s mouth, because we really don’t know the specifics.

by RCheli on Sep 22, 2011 2:13 PM EDT up reply actions

Didn’t Vokoun say he was asked to be the backup there? I could be wrong.

My mind is all twisted like a peanut.

by timmyv38 on Sep 22, 2011 2:24 PM EDT up reply actions

This is from a CSN article. It looks like it was just a matter of interest and his feeling that the Caps are better:

"My belief is this team’s got a better chance to win than Detroit does, and they showed a lot more interest," Vokoun said.

Vokoun, 35, said the challenge of being the first goaltender to bring a Stanley Cup to D.C. overrode Detroit’s reputation as Hockeytown.

"They’re comparable teams, but Detroit has won the Stanley Cup three times [actually, four since 1997] and Washington has never won it," Vokoun said. "I think that’s a lot better challenge for me and for the team to do something special.

by RCheli on Sep 22, 2011 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions

then there’s this, from the Free Press, via Puck Daddy:

The Wings are looking for a veteran with some playoff experience to play behind Jimmy Howard. Howard’s youth — he’s only 27 — is going to turn off some prospective candidates, because those looking to play more know that’s more likely to happen behind a starter in his 30s.

“Some of the goalies we talked to didn’t want to be a backup,” general manager Ken Holland said.

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by RedBirdie on Sep 22, 2011 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions

Yeah, pretty clear what happened here. Not sure what the contention is.

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by J.P. on Sep 22, 2011 2:37 PM EDT up reply actions

Not really strange that you would support a goalie that you have seen often- especially one who is in the top echelon of the league. From 20,000 ft up, though, I can’t agree with you.

by Sturmtiger on Sep 22, 2011 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions

My only disagreement is I’d rank Neuvy above Pavleec. What made you put Pavelec ahead, considering you had Neuvy ranked ahead of him last year? Was it Pavelec’s play against us this season or something else?

"I wear tinted visor not to trick other players, but so hot girls in stands don't see me looking at them" - Alex Ovechkin

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by sami426 on Sep 22, 2011 12:09 PM EDT reply actions

Those two really could have gone other way, you could make a legit case for Neuvy over Pavelec or vice versa. I think Pavelec maybe gets the slight edge (for now) because he was the outright starter and had the same s% and # of shutouts as Neuvy despite playing on a worse team. Plus he bitch-slapped the Caps around quite a bit. But I don’t think it’s crazy to say that Neuvy could be ranked ahead of him.

The definition of being a Caps fan is watching the same team over and over and expecting different results.

by Becca H on Sep 22, 2011 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions

So The Caps have the #1 Winger (Thats obvious though) #1 Defenseman AND the #1 Goalie… This is the first time I’ve ever seen this much bias on here.

by RossingtonCollins on Sep 22, 2011 12:20 PM EDT reply actions

Would you disagree on any of the choices though?

"I wear tinted visor not to trick other players, but so hot girls in stands don't see me looking at them" - Alex Ovechkin

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by sami426 on Sep 22, 2011 12:23 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs

Wait I take that back. Stamkos was the number one center

"I wear tinted visor not to trick other players, but so hot girls in stands don't see me looking at them" - Alex Ovechkin

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by sami426 on Sep 22, 2011 12:23 PM EDT up reply actions

You don’t think he should have been?

The definition of being a Caps fan is watching the same team over and over and expecting different results.

by Becca H on Sep 22, 2011 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions

That’s not what I meant. I was just saying we don’t have the number one in every ranking. Without a doubt, Stamkos is the top guy in the division

"I wear tinted visor not to trick other players, but so hot girls in stands don't see me looking at them" - Alex Ovechkin

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by sami426 on Sep 22, 2011 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions

Ah, gotcha…just checking.

The definition of being a Caps fan is watching the same team over and over and expecting different results.

by Becca H on Sep 22, 2011 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions

With which do you disagree?

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by J.P. on Sep 22, 2011 12:23 PM EDT up reply actions

No bias, really. Ovechkin is probably the best winger in the NHL, Vokoun is an elite goalie, and Green is the only top-tier dman in the SE. To me, this points to a general lack of depth in the SE.

My mind is all twisted like a peanut.

by timmyv38 on Sep 22, 2011 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions

Or it could just be taken to show how much talent GMGM has gotten together on this roster.

My mind is all twisted like a peanut.

by timmyv38 on Sep 22, 2011 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions

A little of both. Plus I think it would be interesting to look at other divisions and see how dominant one team is over the others – my guess is you’d see a similar trend in at least two or three of the others. There just aren’t too many divisions that have balanced talent throughout, and as a result you have one or two teams that are the best because they tend to have all of the top players at one position.

The definition of being a Caps fan is watching the same team over and over and expecting different results.

by Becca H on Sep 22, 2011 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions

Agreed. Atlantic and NE probably wouldn’t have this happen, and I don’t think Central would. The SE just doesn’t have many top players – but those players are very good. Ovie, Stamkos, Vokoun, and arguably Green are among the best at their positions.

My mind is all twisted like a peanut.

by timmyv38 on Sep 22, 2011 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions

I think you could make the case that the Central would be dominated by Detroit and Chicago. The Northwest would be a cakewalk for Vancouver. NE I think would be Boston, maybe the Habs get one or two in there. And the Atlantic…probably a toss-up between Pitt and Philly, no?

…now I kind of want to try this for the other divisions, just for funsies.

The definition of being a Caps fan is watching the same team over and over and expecting different results.

by Becca H on Sep 22, 2011 12:41 PM EDT up reply actions

Atlantic is probably the only mixed bag. Lunqvist for goalie, Crosby for center, Pronger for d-man….

Central probably belongs to Detroit. Obviously, they have that top D spot locked down. You could probably make the case the C and W go to Zetterburg and Dats. But goaltending in that division goes to Rinne (no one else stands out. at all)

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by RedBirdie on Sep 22, 2011 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions

Definitely would have two teams in other divisions – just not one that toally dominates like the SE.

My mind is all twisted like a peanut.

by timmyv38 on Sep 22, 2011 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions

Well, Tampa’s close-ish in the SE. Stamkos as #1 center, MSL as #2 winger (and a completely different type of winger than Ovechkin), Hedman as maybe a #2 defenseman in a year or two. Goaltending is where they separate.

by RCheli on Sep 22, 2011 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions

Oh, and depth.

by RCheli on Sep 22, 2011 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions

And coaching…

"Fais gros comme moi!" - Alex Ovechkin

by Gould Old Days on Sep 22, 2011 11:32 PM EDT up reply actions

Yeah, I buy two in each, not one like SE. In the NE I say Buffalo gives a good run too – with D and G at least. The Pacific is also another mixed bag, and I don’t necessarily think Detroit has Central locked down – I’d consider #1D from Chicago, and Toews and Kane are arguable.

by Vinn on Sep 22, 2011 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions

Northwest for sure. That’s a sad-sack division right now.

The definition of being a Caps fan is watching the same team over and over and expecting different results.

by Becca H on Sep 22, 2011 1:00 PM EDT up reply actions

I have complete faith in Ovechkin having a rebound season and dominating once again. I don’t have that same faith in Green.

He’s still the top defenseman in the SE, but I can see him just as easily having another injury-filled mediocre season as he would have another 70-point campaign.

by RCheli on Sep 22, 2011 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions

I guess that depends on whether the Caps can find a way to protect Green…

Obviously, this is all speculation.

by Rob Parker on Sep 22, 2011 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions

Who is a better winger in the SE (heck, the whole of the NHL) than Alex Ovechkin? Who is a better d-man in the SE than Mike Green (because I don’t see anyone else in the SE with two Norris nods. Or breaking the ppg barrier. Twice)?

if you’re going to slam these rankings, please provide some facts to back up your claims than the rankings are biased.

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by RedBirdie on Sep 22, 2011 12:27 PM EDT up reply actions

Bias or just a statement of fact that, related to the rest of the division, the Caps have a pretty strong team? If you did this exercise with other divisions you’d likely find that the top spot in a lot of the categories if not all belong to whichever is the best team (for example, try it with the NW and do so without giving every top spot to Vancouver).

But Ovie’s a given. Green is, for now at least, still the best D compared to the rest of the field. And Vokoun was the #1 last year when he was with Florida…we’re not going to bump him from the top spot just because he now plays for the Caps and we want to avoid a look of bias, right?

The definition of being a Caps fan is watching the same team over and over and expecting different results.

by Becca H on Sep 22, 2011 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions

Granted, I can see how it feels like a sequence of homer picks in these lists. But the numbers and the rationale behind the rankings are given, and as you admit, you don’t tend to see bias here. I read this to be just an objective attempt at ranking that happens to fit with the subjective hopes.

In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.

by skyywise on Sep 22, 2011 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions