Alex Semin and The Curse of Elite Talent
by J.P. on Aug 31, 2011 9:02 PM EDT
Email
Print
Alexander Semin. Other-worldly talented, but without the [insert desirable trait as represented by internal organ(s)] to translate that talent into big-time performances when it matters most. Or so the narrative goes, at least.
As impressive as Semin's skill set is, it's also been something of a curse. As TSN's Scott Cullen wrote not long ago (in the piece from which the title to this post is respectfully borrowed), "Great accomplishments, that only the tiniest percentage ever have a chance to achieve, are not enough when you have seemingly unlimited skills."
Granted, Cullen was referring to Alexei Kovalev, but read over the piece and substitute Semin's name for that of his elder countryman and it's a pretty comfortable fit. Like Kovalev, Semin "tends to get burned in the court of public perception [because] his talent suggest[s] a player capable of being more dominant if he applied himself more consistently." (See? Like a glove.)
And it's this disconnect and disappointment that has had his teammates - current and former - willing to talk, perhaps surprisingly openly and critically, about the Russian winger. Here's a by-no-means-comprehensive rundown of what Semin's teammates have had to say about "the enigma":
"When you see a kid who has more talent than the reigning MVP, you want to see more. He's teasing you. The frustrating thing is he hasn't gotten everything out of his talent. He doesn't have the intangibles Ovie has. With Ovie there's accountability. He's had a bad groin and played through it. Ovie realizes what he has to live up to. So far [Semin] just puts up points." - Olie Kolzig, 12/2008
"I think he needs the corrections and a little more discipline in his game, and he needs to know how important he is to this team to win." - Jason Arnott, 3/2011 (as part of an overwhelmingly positive assessment of Semin, it should be noted)
"Any time he's on the ice he's a threat and can score a goal. It's just a matter of if he wants to push through and score that goal. So we'll see." - Mike Green, 6/2011
"I don’t mind saying Alexander Semin’s name, because he’s one guy who has so much talent, he could easily be the best player in the league, and just for whatever reason, just doesn’t care.
"When you’ve got a guy like that, you need him to be your best player, or one of your best players, and when he doesn't show up, you almost get the sense that he wants to be back in Russia. That’s tough to win when you’ve got a guy like that who’s supposed to be your best player not being your best player, or one of your best players." - Matt Bradley, 8/2011
"It's not like [Bradley] went out and told lies.... I don't have anything to say on what Brads said except that he was spot on." - David Steckel, 8/2011
Update (10/1/11): "talked w/Shaone Morrison (sic) 2 wks ago...echoed EVERYTHING said on A. Semin. Says he's more talented than Ovie but doesn't care/try. Never will." "Morrison said the Caps used to take bets on WHEN in Dec Semin would pretend to be injured, and how long into prac he'd lay down on ice" - Tweets (here and here) from WGR550 Buffalo's Jeremy White, 9/30/11
[Have more examples? Drop 'em in the comments and we'll update the post.]
Point being, Semin is frustrating to fans. He's frustrating to coaches. He's frustrating to teammates. But that frustration comes from being teased with greatness unrealized. Until that changes, expect the talking to continue, and the court of public perception to find Semin guilty.
61 comments
|
4 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
Hopefully these quotes fire him up this season
If they dont then I think that tells us all we need to know about Sasha…he just doesnt give a #%$
by Twisted Wrister on Aug 31, 2011 9:16 PM EDT reply actions
Mike Green on June 30, 2011 said Semin was one of the most skilled guys in the league and anytime he’s on the ice he’s a threat and can score goals, it’s just a matter if Semin wants to push through and score.
Then on 8/30/2011 Green said:
"We know as an organization what Semin is about. He’s one of the best players skill-wise in the NHL. Again, it goes back to everyone being back on the same page. I feel that if you’re not going to be committed this year, you’re not going to fit in with our team. I think that’s important that we address that and Matt Bradley definitely brought it out in the media. It’ll be dealt with when we get back for the season."
So, up until now, Greener’s saying that being uncommitted was no barrier to fitting in on this team. It’s a wonder that the playoffs have gone so poorly.
by mechanicsville on Aug 31, 2011 9:38 PM EDT up reply actions
I feel that if you’re not going to be committed this year, you’re not going to fit in with our team.
I read that as a standard athletic cliche. Greenie probably wants to emphasize it this year, but I suspect he’d have claimed the same thing every season with every team he’s been on, starting with peewee.
Quand on change d'attitude ça change tout
The quote, to me, is a stark reminder of how much the Caps still have to prove from an intestinal fortitude standpoint. And the subject of JP’s post here will most likely be the most important barometer of their progress.
by mechanicsville on Aug 31, 2011 10:12 PM EDT up reply actions
I added that first one. Thanks. (The second one, to me, is much more diplomatic and not really openly and specifically critical.)
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
Funny that in a post about Semin, JP writes
expect the talking to continueFrom some perspectives, at least.
by NateEwell on Aug 31, 2011 10:37 PM EDT reply actions 4 recs
Hardly! Been meaning to join the fray here for a while, finally got around to it. And JP’s already giving me a hard time about not having an avatar.
If he didn't, I would have.
I’d suggest this:
"My favorite fan base in D.C. Is United's. Period. The end." - Steinberg
by Bald Pollack on Sep 1, 2011 10:33 AM EDT up reply actions
For me, there are two distinct points in Semin’s career that made my jaw drop followed by ‘holy shit’.
Hat trick vs. Tampa at some point in 2007
Hat trick vs Ottawa in Feb, 2010
Any player that can toy with other NHL players like he does in these brief periods you’d think would be HOF-worthy. I remember Joe B. saying something like ‘sometimes Alex Semin makes the other team look like men’s league out there" in reference to the Ottawa hat trick, and I thought he was pretty spot on.
At the same time, I can’t help thinking the narrative about ’he’s not trying hard enough’ or ‘his head’s not in the game’ is a little too easy. That’s an easy thing for an observer to say, answers the question why he’s not mens-leaguing the opposing team nightly, and you don’t have to think any more.
But I find it unsatisfying. I don’t think you get to a place where you’re scoring 40 goals in the NHL if you can’t put your head in the game. In the terms of this argument, what causes Semin to try or not try? Why would he be trying on one night/shift and not on another?
I don’ t know what the answer is, but I think it’s something more challenging. Maybe it is more that he needs a consistent, suitable center to complement his skills. Maybe he needs better line matching. Maybe he needs more PK time. Whatever it is, I hope the end of the discussion isn’t ‘he doesn’t care’ because that puts the ball entirely in his court, and with his level of talent, I don’t think his bosses (or teammates) can that easily dish the responsibility for getting the best out of him.
“…this ruinous, Jupiterian thunderbolt of a shot…”
My favorite phrase from my favorite (yes) Ryan Lambert column ever.
If only.
You perhaps knew me better as "Your Nation's Capital." Same great commentary, now with 100% more transparency!
He scored 40 once. And now it isn’t just observing fans that say he doesn’t care. Sometimes you just don’t want to try. Most people get weeded out if they don’t want to try, he has enough talent to progress to the NHL. That doesn’t mean there aren’t games when he doesn’t feel like pushing or fighting through obstacles.
Obviously, this is all speculation.
My point is not that it’s just fans (though I think players pick up on the narratives in the media). It’s that this is too easy of an excuse. If he’s got the talent, then he needs a mentor who can make him try, and make him want to try. That’s what the Caps haven’t found for him. It’s a management issue to me, more than a Sasha issue.
That takes too much responsibility off Semin.
Obviously, this is all speculation.
by Rob Parker on Sep 1, 2011 7:13 AM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
Agreed. It’s on him. He’s a grown man getting handsomely remunerated to play a game – it’s on him to play it to the best of his ability.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
To further add to this, who says the team hasn’t tried to mentor him and make him try? They brought in Fedorov, and for all the raving about what he did for Semin he wasn’t able to improve his consistency. Arnott wasn’t able to improve his consistency. Knuble and AO haven’t gotten him to improve his consistency.
To me it’s kind of absurd to claim that other people are responsible for making someone try hard instead of looking at the individual. If you are slacking off at your job while everyone is working their ass off, you think your boss is going to blame himself for not motivating you, or just fire your ass?
Release the Mackan!
by Killer_Carlson on Sep 1, 2011 10:16 AM EDT up reply actions
His inconsistency and “variable application of effort” combined with amazing talent reminds me of Jimmy McNulty. Tragic hero.
Much rather have Omar on this team.
J.P.: You might be the king of all geeks here…
by Alz Well That Ends Well on Sep 1, 2011 11:00 AM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
The Wire gets a rec. I don’t make the rules, I just follow them.
Release the Mackan!
by Killer_Carlson on Sep 1, 2011 11:15 AM EDT up reply actions
Although I’d say that Lester Freeman is probably a better Semin analog than McNulty. McNulty’s effort is there, it’s just sometimes misguided and he’s an asshole. Cool Lester Smooth is more likely to take a shift off if he doesn’t like what he’s assigned.
Obviously, this is all speculation.
Lester lurks quietly but I would say he works for the team’s goals over his own (for the most part). McNulty will sacrifice anyone to get what he thinks is right (“Ray Cole… that’s collateral damage.”)
J.P.: You might be the king of all geeks here…
by Alz Well That Ends Well on Sep 1, 2011 11:26 AM EDT up reply actions
Lester is perfectly willing to play by his own rules. He gets an interesting murder? Works his ass off. Stuck in the evidence room? Time to build model boats inside of glass bottles. Doesn’t like the departments priorities? We must kill again…
I’d agree with F&B that McNulty works his ass off but is just misguided in strategy (AO?). That’s part of the reason his relationships are a mess, he’s always working. Well, that and he’s an alcoholic philanderer.
I’d say Bunk is more of the company man. Follows the rules, but isn’t afraid to get dirty. Lots of folksy sayings. Brooks Laich.
Release the Mackan!
by Killer_Carlson on Sep 1, 2011 11:31 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I’ll stop now before this gets too far OT. But I will point out the irony of something else threadjacking a discussion on Semin’s consistency…
Release the Mackan!
by Killer_Carlson on Sep 1, 2011 11:41 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Pretty sure Steckel is Pryzbylewski; not worth a whole lot, generally, but has a specific useful skillset and – fuck, he just shot another cop by accident. Jesus Christ.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
by J.P. on Sep 1, 2011 11:57 AM EDT up reply actions 6 recs
“We all in the game. You got wicked wrister. I got more goals than anyone since the lockout.”
J.P.: You might be the king of all geeks here…
by Alz Well That Ends Well on Sep 1, 2011 11:25 AM EDT up reply actions
I wonder if part of it is that when you make those risky 50/50 plays, inevitably there will be stretches where they’re all successful or they all fail, and voila, good/bad Sasha.
Red Line Station and @RedArmyLine, featuring coverage of the most frustrating team in the NHL
I believe in next year.
by red army line on Sep 1, 2011 7:55 AM EDT up reply actions
Which is why the 10/2 plays (10% chance something good happens, 2% chance something bad happens, 88% chance of stalemate and we’re back where we started) are smarter plays than the 50/50 plays. It’s about patience, judgment, and above all discipline.
Semin goes too frequently for the high risk, high reward play. Which isn’t necessarily good for a team that’s focused on winning games.
"Fais gros comme moi!" - Alex Ovechkin
by Gould Old Days on Sep 1, 2011 4:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Not sure that’s entirely fair to Semin. Weighing for potential results, the end result of his 50/50 versus the 10/2 plays ends up as 30-30-60 in 60 GP (conservative). I don’t give a damn how he does it as long as his production in aggregate is there and there aren’t very disturbing signs that it won’t be (injuries, “superhero imma do it all” mode). If his plays are coinflips, we can’t control when his production comes, anyway.
Red Line Station and @RedArmyLine, featuring coverage of the most frustrating team in the NHL
I believe in next year.
by red army line on Sep 2, 2011 1:36 AM EDT up reply actions
So that assumes that there are no qualitative differences from regular season to playoffs, or you don’t have any concern that he might not be able to succeed by doing the same thing in the playoffs as the regular season, right?
Obviously, this is all speculation.
Neither. Just that he can make a similar adjustment as almost anyone else and be successful in the postseason.
Red Line Station and @RedArmyLine, featuring coverage of the most frustrating team in the NHL
I believe in next year.
by red army line on Sep 2, 2011 4:48 PM EDT up reply actions
While Semin is perceived as “not caring”, I also find it hard to believe that anyone could consistently get about 35 goals per year, give or take a few if they didn’t care. There is the old cliche that was said in baseball but I’m sure it could be applied to hockey as well. It’s easier to make the big leagues than it is to stay there. I’m sure the history of hockey is filled with “one year” wonders, including Jonathan Cheechoo who won the Rocket Richard trophy in 2005-2006 and has not approached that level since.
Rocking the Red for teams on the banks of the Potomac and at the Gateway Arch and Singing the Blues about Hockey.
Did your kids know anyone that got a 1500 on the SATs without studying much? Sometimes it happens in all areas of human life, I don’t see why hockey is different.
And consistently scoring 35 is a bit generous.
Obviously, this is all speculation.
by Rob Parker on Aug 31, 2011 11:09 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
While I see the analogy you’re getting at with the SAT scores and talent, comparing scores on one test is more like comparing performance on a given night (or given time frame). Perhaps a better analogy would be like getting an A in a class or achieving a certain GPA. And, yes there are people who ace a class or get a great GPA with effort that seems relatively minimal.
But in that regard, there probably is a minimum effort that has to be made to get an A in a class. Papers (and other work) have to be turned in on time. Some homework or reading has to be done.
Perhaps 35 is too generous a number. I was looking for a number between 30 and 40 to use.
Rocking the Red for teams on the banks of the Potomac and at the Gateway Arch and Singing the Blues about Hockey.
But he has fewer than 30 more than he has 40.
Define your academic performance how you would like, it’s the same concept. There is some minimal effort to do what Semin does. He has to tie his skates and probably stretch. But he may be able to do it with much less effort or urgency than his peers because he is that talented.
Obviously, this is all speculation.
by Rob Parker on Aug 31, 2011 11:23 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
every sport has it’s “one year wonders” who manage to put it together for a reason and then for whatever reason don’t ever do it again. every sport also has the hard workers who make it because they want it, the OCD personalities who are immensely gifted but being great isn’t enough, they want to be extraordinary, and they ridiculously gifted who don’t have to try all that hard to be almost great. And they’re okay with being almost great. But that tends to drive everyone around them absolutely nuts.
Caps fans aren’t on the ledge; they’ve already jumped, and are merely trying to drag others into a mournful descent with them..--Stienz
Pledge Drive 2010-2011: SO KIDS CAN!! Help build a playground
I think it all goes back to the “love to win vs. hate to lose”. Ovi clearly hates to lose. He has said a million times he’d take 0/0/0 if the team wins. It’s never really struck me that Semin hates to lose. Part of that may just be that he obscures it from public view as he does with the rest of his life, but he doesn’t really seem too broken up win or lose.
J.P.: You might be the king of all geeks here…
by Alz Well That Ends Well on Sep 1, 2011 11:02 AM EDT up reply actions
There are also different ways of being competitive, and this is where IMO the disconnect with Semin arises.
Semin has always struck me as a more internally competitive kind of guy—the kind of guy who is trying to improve his personal game or record. For example in a two-person race he would be the type to focus on beating his personal best time rather than do anything to make sure that the other racer doesn’t beat him. If the other guy is faster than he would shrug and say “well, he’s faster.”
Ovi has the other type of competitive fire—he would rather spend his last ounce of energy to make sure he won that race. The winning is what matters, not his personal best. To him, no one should be faster.
by capsyoungguns on Sep 1, 2011 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m not sure I accept the dichotomy, but assuming it’s true, the first type of competitiveness seems better suited to practice — i.e. personal improvement; whereas the second is better suited to a team sport.
J.P.: You might be the king of all geeks here…
by Alz Well That Ends Well on Sep 1, 2011 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Well yes I did make my example too stark of a difference here to make my point. There are more than just two ways of exhibiting competitiveness. And by no means are competitive styles mutually exclusive.
It’s more of an conclusion I’ve reached over the years of watching the differences among the kids in my son’s competitive sports. There are some kids who are so outwardly driven, sometimes to the point of obnoxiousness, whereas other kids are more “meh.” And some are very analytical or thoughtful about it. And some just care about the end result, not the process.
I probably should develop this thought further. First it needs more thought. But I do think it’s simplistic to just say an athlete has no heart. Mind you I am not part of the Semin lobby. The guy frustrates and baffles me too.
by capsyoungguns on Sep 1, 2011 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions
I’ve coached youth hockey for 9 years — I absolutely observe the same thing. But occasionally I do see a player who reminds me of Semin — unworldly talent, but just coasting on that gets them the results they are looking for. “Oh, I guess our team winning the championship would be nice but I’m content with us finishing well in the regular season and having beastly individual numbers.” Now, they are anywhere from 10-17 and in MD no one (hi Jeff Halpern) is going to go on and play in the NHL, but the same attitudes are there.
I kind of agree that it’s unfair to say Semin has no heart. I just think people are grading him against other NHLers, already the best of the best, and the ones who don’t have Semin’s talent have to put in a lot more grit and work to get there. So when you look at the “relative” heart levels, he doesn’t compare well to the other examples. And if I’m putting together a team, I probably look elsewhere.
J.P.: You might be the king of all geeks here…
by Alz Well That Ends Well on Sep 1, 2011 2:00 PM EDT up reply actions
That’s fair and I am in agreement.
Perhaps driving some of these comments from former teammates like Brads is the thought: “Man, what could I do if I had just a tenth of that’s guy’s talent.”
by capsyoungguns on Sep 1, 2011 2:20 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m sure that’s a big one. The other thing is that individual accomplishments can’t really be shared. So Sasha may feel good about X goals or Y points, but an awesome stats year and no Cup can’t really be shared with the role players. I think we’ve discussed on here before that Brads probably realizes his best chance at a Cup was the last 3 years in DC, and he has nothing but questions about the team’s dedication and jokes about them becoming San Jose East to show for it.
J.P.: You might be the king of all geeks here…
by Alz Well That Ends Well on Sep 1, 2011 2:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Averaging 33 goals/season might be a more accurate way to phrase it. I guess the premise here is that Semin’s talent level is so lofty that he can do just that…score 30+ per year without caring. Personally, I’m withholding judgement on this whole “not caring” meme. Darn thing about it is we won’t have any more evidence one way or the other until late spring/early summer (fingers crossed) 2012.
by mechanicsville on Aug 31, 2011 11:26 PM EDT reply actions
I don’t think you can say Semin doesn’t care as a blanket statement. He obviously cares sometimes and puts in more effort during those times. I think he cared against the Rangers in the playoffs. I’ve never seen Semin dive headfirst into the boards in an attempt to score before. I don’t know what happened with him against Tampa Bay. He’d done well against Tampa during the regular season so I was hoping he would keep it up in the playoffs but obviously he switched back to not caring as much.
Semin is what he is. The team knows what he is by now and keeps re-signing him, but maybe they have reached their limit. Hopefully all this talk does motivate him, but I don’t see Semin as the type that responds to external motivation. Maybe if the team got him a less broken down version of someone like Arnott to play with all season, it would help.
A setup question in a Russian interview this past season asked if he “knew” he was going to have a good game before he has a good game. He responded along the lines that he couldn’t discuss such things. Opinion/stretch/whatever, but I’d think most players/people who had never considered such a thing or didn’t pay the idea much credence would have not thought twice about saying “Not really, that’s ridiculous.” He has exhibited no problem making such terse responses in interviews. Or the stock “I’m a hockey player, I always just try my best, and sometimes it works out.” But no, he wasn’t comfortable talking about such things.
If he does “feel” like he is going to have a good game before his good games, maybe he just has to come to terms with working his butt off and focusing when it isn’t going to be a “good game” and feeling good about a strong performance despite not having that good feeling. He may find he garners a few points in those bad ones.
"If you want to go down in [sport] history, you have to win the [name] Cup."
-Amy Wambach
See, the thing that gets me is… if it really came down to him not being motivated enough to put in the effort, don’t you think one of his best friends would talk to him about it… maybe bust his ass a little bit, or remind him how important he is to the team? If only our captain was close to him, or someone he respects. Oh wait.
I find it hard to believe that Ovechkin couldn’t see the value in trying to light a fire under Semin… so what’s going on between them?
Warning: I started watching hockey in 2007. So, yeah.
IIRC when Arnott said he talked to Sasha to find out what made him tick and he also seemed to suggest that no one else on the team did the same. Whether that’s because the rest of the team gave up on trying to understand him or he’s just a loner, I don’t think we’ll know.
This sig is brought to you by... Frungy, The Sport of Kings!
Or maybe AO is talking to him a lot, just not in the media. Maybe AO knows Semin doesn’t like the spotlight so he thinks there are better ways to motivate him. Or Maybe the fact that he is good friends may be keeping him from throwing him under the bus publicly. Or maybe AO just thinks Semin is a lost cause.
The silence of AO regarding Semin is by no means definitive evidence that Semin has no problems with motivation and work ethic. Particularly when there are some similar questions about Ovechkin.
Release the Mackan!
by Killer_Carlson on Sep 1, 2011 10:23 AM EDT up reply actions
A leopard can’t change its spots.
"You just have a sense," Holland says. "The type of player you want, the type of situation you reference for your next game, you see it."
by Acer Jonesy's Laughker on Sep 1, 2011 6:33 AM EDT reply actions
Quoting...
“With great power comes great responsibility.”
“To whom much has been given, much will be expected.”
These seem to be the quotes that would apply here…
Winnipeg? Winnipeg??? Oy! (And now it's official...)
I prefer “You got a gift. When you were a baby, the Gods reached down and turned your right arm into a thunderbolt. You got a Hall-of-Fame arm, but you’re pissing it away.”
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
by J.P. on Sep 1, 2011 11:18 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Can the Caps clear a little space to p/u Crash Davis?
by mechanicsville on Sep 1, 2011 11:23 AM EDT up reply actions
He seems to care...
…just not about the things that make you consistently great.
I always got the impression that Semin cares about the artistry that he can display more than about consistently doing the things that help a team win. His comments on Crosby vs. Kane gave me the feeling that his priorities are just radically different than most of the other players in the NHL. He’ sees the elegant and overtly skillful, but seems to miss the small, deep things that make a player like Crosby so great.
so, Sasha should have been a figure skater?
Caps fans aren’t on the ledge; they’ve already jumped, and are merely trying to drag others into a mournful descent with them..--Stienz
Pledge Drive 2010-2011: SO KIDS CAN!! Help build a playground
by RedBirdie on Sep 1, 2011 1:44 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
Related FanPosts on Japers' Rink
Related FanShots on Japers' Rink
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recent FanPosts
FanShots
Quick hits of video, photos, quotes, chats, links and lists that you find around the web.
Recent FanShots
The Vault
In Association With
Latest Puck Daddy - NHL from Yahoo! Sports
- Who are the Non-Smythe candidates for the Devils, Kings?
- End is near for Rick Nash, Blue Jackets as trade discussions set to resume
- Why the Devils and the Kings are evidence the Capitals shouldn’t trade Alex Ovechkin
- Eulogy: Remembering the 2011-12 New York Rangers
- Stanley Cup Final: 5 keys for New Jersey Devils and Los Angeles Kings
Latest stories and headlines from NHL.com
- Throwing a curve: Marty McSorley hopes LA Kings straighten out the curse of his illegal stick
- Marty McSorley hopes LA Kings reverse his curse
- Driven DeBoer delivers Devils back to NHL's elite
- Driven DeBoer, fired by Panthers, delivers Devils back to the land of elite in just one year
- Bruins acquire son of Hall of Famer Ray Bourque
