Monday Caps Clips
by J.P. on Jul 11, 2011 6:41 AM EDT
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Your savory breakfast links:
- Ready... Set... Develop! Development Camp gets underway today with Group A hitting the Kettler Ice at 9:45 and Group B skating at 2:00. Here's some (more) pre-camp coverage to whet your whistle. [WashTimes (Whyno), CRtC]
- On an administrative note, our Tweet Tweeters page is a great place to keep up with all of the Development Camp, um, developments in real-time.
- On an administrative note, our Tweet Tweeters page is a great place to keep up with all of the Development Camp, um, developments in real-time.
- Where the Caps' summer stands as of this morning. [WashTimes (Whyno), Examiner (Hoffman), Next Year D.C., Ross Hollebon, justanothersportsfan, Caps News Network]
- The Tomas Vokoun signing wasn't just news in south Florida. [St. Pete Times]
- Also, sad goalie is/was sad. [iSport.cz via Google Translate]
- Great stuff on defenseman "errors." Spoiler alert: Karl Alzner owns. [Corey's Corner]
- More match-ups that mattered from the past season from the man chronicling them. [Peerless, Peerless, Peerless]
- Alex Ovechkin, leg man. [Alex Ovetjkin]
- Mathieu Perreault as a kid. [NHL Players as Kids]
- As first reported by Tim Leone, Christian Hanson is the newest member of the organization. [Patriot-News (Leone), CI (Carrera)]
- First-hand reporting from Red Rocker auditions. [Puck Buddys]
- A couple of Semyon Varlamov interviews that leave more questions than answers. [CI (Malamud), Puck Daddy (Chesnokov)]
- Speaking of Varly, here's a goal-by-goal breakdown of his 2010-11. [Corey's Corner]
- Happy 55th birthday to Jorgen Pettersson, happy 45th birthday to Bob Joyce, and a nod to the memory of Gaetan Duchesne, who would have turned 49 today.
- And finally, on ten years ago today the Caps sent Kris Beech, center Michal Sivek , defenseman Ross Lupaschuk and future considerations the Pittsburgh Penguins for defenseman Frantisek Kucera and a throw-in right wing.
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For those who might not otherwise visit the Fan Post section, I updated the development camp fan post late yesterday…up to 16FA invites identified plus a few maybes. Also, updated the Caps development camp player twitter list, now up to 13 accounts – know of a few more but not active accounts at this time.
Adam Mitchell – has some local ties
There could be 2 or more FA invites who will be on the ice today, who participated last summer, too. Cameron Burt and Andrew Cherniwchan (maybe)
You perhaps knew me better as "Your Nation's Capital." Same great commentary, now with 100% more transparency!
Even though the cap space is needed right now…
He’s classified as "someone who can fill-in when another player is hurt" but you’d be better off just rolling five defensemen instead of playing him after watching some of the idiotic mistakes he made this season.
…this quote puts into words why I’m ok with sucking it up and just buying Sloan out. Brutal.
But why is a buyout better than stashing him in Hershey? You can’t possibly think that he’s so awful that he’s contagious, can you?
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The rationale for the buyout might be this:
- Yes, he could help out in Hershey and that would take his salary out of the cap calculation.
- However, we’re just unlikely to call him up for any extended period of time. Macneil, Collins, and even Orlov are head of him on the org chart. Not only do we not like him, but his cap hit, even for a game, is way more than these guys.
- In Hershey, we’d thus be keeping for true emergencies (9D?) and taking up a potential developmental roster spot.
Nice guys finish first, but sometimes the season is awfully long.
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Yeah, I’m not buying that any of that is worth $233,333 on the cap (and his cap hit for one game isn’t way more than the guys you listed in the grand scheme of things). I think they miscalculated and thought they wouldn’t be as close to/over the cap as they are, so they accomodated a “loyal soldier.”
I’d love someone to ask GMGM or Don Fishman if they’d take the same course of action given what they know now about how things have played out. (Granted, I wouldn’t necessarily expect a straight-forward answer on that…)
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Which gives further pause to those who were discontent with the return for Fehr and argued that GMGM knew all along what he was going to do. It would be nice to have that $233K back.
Nice guys finish first, but sometimes the season is awfully long.
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So here’s a question for the group – obviously this is purely speculative, but which of the following best completes the sentence “George McPhee knew he was going to trade Eric Fehr…”
A) long before the Troy Brouwer trade.
B) once Troy Brouwer was acquired.
C) once Joel Ward was signed.
D) once Troy Brouwer was signed.
E) once he realized Karl Alzner was going to be more difficult to sign than he’d thought.
F) once Winnipeg bowled him over with an offer he couldn’t refuse. (Ha!)
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E) once he realized Karl Alzner was going to be more difficult to sign than he’d thought.
Only because the return for Fehr suggests “cap space relief.”
I am a little surprised Alzner is not signed yet. I guess he is looking for $3.5×2 which is not only high, but would make subsequent JC74 (and possibly Green) negotiations that much harder.
Hard to believe Alzner will roll the dice with the QO and go for a big payday in arb. A lot of risk there for a “stay at home” defensemen who prob wouldn’t have the flashy boxcar stats to increase his perceived value.
"Shots aren't the important thing. Scoring chances are way more important than shots." - Bruce Boudreau
See my work on WaPo's Capitals Insider, ESPN Insider and Russian Machine Never Breaks (RMNB) Insider. I also log the Caps scoring chances. The 2010-11 summary spreadsheet is posted on Google Docs.
Follow me on Twitter @ngreenberg
But even if Alzner was locked up at $2.5*whatever right now, there’d still be too many dicks on the dancefloor at RW, no?
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by J.P. on Jul 11, 2011 8:13 AM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
I get what you are saying, but the org has made some shrewd moves and this one just smacks of “quick fix” IMO.
"Shots aren't the important thing. Scoring chances are way more important than shots." - Bruce Boudreau
See my work on WaPo's Capitals Insider, ESPN Insider and Russian Machine Never Breaks (RMNB) Insider. I also log the Caps scoring chances. The 2010-11 summary spreadsheet is posted on Google Docs.
Follow me on Twitter @ngreenberg
I suppose. But I think they essentially chose Brouwer over Fehr (who had obviously fallen out of favor with Boudreau… if he was ever “in” favor), but were likely to give him another shot until they were able to land Ward, which made Fehr a “quick fix,” for sure, but also one that made a lot of sense given the direction the team is going and the depth chart.
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Dicks on RW dancefloor = Knuble, Semin, Ward, 4th line
Brouwer takes the roster spot on the 2nd line that was opened when Brooks Laich shifted into the roster spot opened by not-resigning Arnott. Brouwer and Fehr weren’t competing for a spot. Unless you think the Caps were legitimately thinking of him as a 2nd liner and were planning to move Semin to LW. Which I can’t see.
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Jul 11, 2011 9:15 AM EDT up reply actions
Fair point, but given the money and the likely spot on the depth chart, it’s pretty easy to see Brouwer as the replacement for Fehr, and I don’t think it’s incorrect to see it that way. I suppose you see Brouwer as the replacement for “Laich the W,” but when “Laich the C” isn’t working and they grab another pivot, it’s going to look a lot more like Brouwer’s replaced Fehr, no?
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Depends on who moves where. If Laich-the-C fails and they grab another pivot, I still see Brouwer staying on the 2nd line replacing Laich-the-Wing-from-last-year. I see Laich-now on the 3rd line, at left wing, replacing Marco Sturm. Laich-center-Ward is a potentially great shutdown line. Move Brouwer down and Laich up, and the team gets worse.
Fehr, if returned to this team, would cause Ward to shift to the left (filling the roster spot of Sturm/Chimera) and would be the first guy up to the scoring lines if Knuble or Semin were out. Ward’s filling half of that role now (3RW) and it’s unclear right now what happens to the other half of that role if Knuble or Semin get hurt.
But no matter what, the team had an opening for a full-time 2LW, even when Fehr was on the team. Brouwer took that opening. Arguably they didn’t have an opening at 3RW because Fehr was there, but they signed Ward anyway. Seems to me Ward took Fehr’s spot, not Brouwer.
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Jul 11, 2011 9:33 AM EDT up reply actions
But no matter what, the team had an opening for a full-time 2LW, even when Fehr was on the team. Brouwer took that opening. Arguably they didn’t have an opening at 3RW because Fehr was there, but they signed Ward anyway. Seems to me Ward took Fehr’s spot, not Brouwer.
Perhaps. But we’re eight years out from Eric Fehr’s draft year. The team has a grizzled vet RW on the top line and a natural LW playing on the right side for the past few years. With Laich’s move off the second-line wing, that spot should have been Fehr’s, and probably would have been with a different coach. In an ideal world, Fehr would have inherited that 2R role by now, or at least been given a real shot at it.
By skill-set and contract, Brouwer is a much closer replacement for Fehr – Ward is a completely different player with a completely different role than Fehr would ever be asked to perform. Ward’s a Chimera replacement (knock wood), Brouwer’s the Fehr substitute, IMO.
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Boyd Gordon was drafted 3 years before Fehr, but nobody wrote “Caps lose 2nd line center Boyd Gordon in free agency” this offseason.
Nobody was penciling Fehr into the 2nd line this offseason. Not after 10 goals and 10 assists in 52 games. Doghouse or not, I don’t think Bruce Boudreau cost Fehr his “rightful” slot on the 2nd line. I think Fehr and his own bad shoulders cost him that space.
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Jul 11, 2011 9:51 AM EDT up reply actions
No doubt. But even when healthy, he was hardly given the chance to take that role that others have been given elsewhere up and down the lineup.
Ultimately, it doesn’t really matter, of course – the moves don’t have to be in-kind replacements. And they’re not here. But I still maintain that Brouwer was acquired as a conscious decision not to give Fehr one more shot at proving himself capable of top-six minutes, and the signing of Ward was them saying he’s not going to get those top-nine minutes either.
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by J.P. on Jul 11, 2011 10:09 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I also think you need to add the Sjogren signing to your list.
I also think you need to consider the ages of Brouwer and Sjogren. It’s not as though GMGM just said, “hey we need some veteran guys for next year.” He acquired two players that could be with the Caps for several years, both of whom are younger than Fehr. To me, that fairly screams, “we’re done waiting around for you to fully develop. You are what you are: a talented but inconsistent and consistently injured winger.”
Armareddon.
Agreed. But it’s also worth noting that at the time of the Sjogren signing and the Brouwer trade, BL21 was still unsigned – had he fallen through, the team would’ve needed another UFA C, but they might have hung onto F16 a little longer.
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I personally date the day the Caps consciously decided not to give Fehr one more shot at proving himself capable of to-six minutes at around the time of the Knuble extension last season. Not necessarily just because of that signing, but because of all that was going on last year.
But yeah, I see what you mean. Brouwer (and Sjogren) were the Caps’ first opportunities to really do something about it.
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Jul 11, 2011 10:48 AM EDT up reply actions
I can see where you’re coming from, but I think it was more likely after this playoffs with his shoulder injuries. I think the Caps rightly deduced that, for all of Fehr’s talent, he’s never going to be able to make it through a full 82-game season healthy, let alone the grind of 4 playoff series. What’s the point of having a guy on the roster that you know won’t be able to play when it really matters?
Armareddon.
Is it assumed that Johannson would be the 3C? If the 3rd line was meant to be another scoring line (like the ‘09-’10 Caps), I could see it, but I don’t think of him as a C on a checking line.
"I remembered when he said that and I kind of looked at him during the warm up and told myself that I got to shut these guys out tonight." - Michal Neuvirth, 02.06.11.
I think Laich is 3C and Johansson is 2C
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Jul 11, 2011 9:51 AM EDT up reply actions
So did GMGM enter the offseason thinking Fehr was an expendable part? I have to think he’s too meticulous to not know that 1) he was likely going to spend big on the FA market 2) that would put him up against the cap and 3) Fehr was the most expendable asset in the event that he needed space.
I think GMGM saw Fehr as an expendable part he’d like to keep. And he probably could have, if not for Vokoun.
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Jul 11, 2011 9:52 AM EDT up reply actions
(But obviously I agree re: the return on Fehr, though I’d add that his health may be getting lost in that a bit – quite possible GMGM said, “Look, I haven’t a clue if his shoulder’s ever going to be able to hold up, but if you want to roll the dice on that, you can have him for next-to-nothing.”)
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I thought I read somewhere that Caps said Fehr would be ready for game 1, and then WPG said he wouldn’t, so yes, health wasn’t a factor in Caps favor here.
"Shots aren't the important thing. Scoring chances are way more important than shots." - Bruce Boudreau
See my work on WaPo's Capitals Insider, ESPN Insider and Russian Machine Never Breaks (RMNB) Insider. I also log the Caps scoring chances. The 2010-11 summary spreadsheet is posted on Google Docs.
Follow me on Twitter @ngreenberg
Per McNally, "Fehr (right shoulder surgery) said he “doubts” he’ll be ready for training camp and “it could be a while longer” before he’s cleared."
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I thought BB said he’d be ready to go. I could be very mistaken here.
"Shots aren't the important thing. Scoring chances are way more important than shots." - Bruce Boudreau
See my work on WaPo's Capitals Insider, ESPN Insider and Russian Machine Never Breaks (RMNB) Insider. I also log the Caps scoring chances. The 2010-11 summary spreadsheet is posted on Google Docs.
Follow me on Twitter @ngreenberg
I’d say there’s a good chance that you’re right… and Bruce is wrong.
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If I did hear/see it correctly, that would actually work against my argument of it being related to Alzner signing, since it could have been a ploy to get it out there he was healthier than he was.
"Shots aren't the important thing. Scoring chances are way more important than shots." - Bruce Boudreau
See my work on WaPo's Capitals Insider, ESPN Insider and Russian Machine Never Breaks (RMNB) Insider. I also log the Caps scoring chances. The 2010-11 summary spreadsheet is posted on Google Docs.
Follow me on Twitter @ngreenberg
I doubt the Caps would knowingly mislead as to the health of one of their guys when it came down to trade time – didn’t LA/EDM just get into a bit of a dust-up on that point?
I’m sure GMGM laid his cards on the table re: Fehr’s health when talking with ‘Peg. As little as they got for him, while leveraged against the cap, my bet is that it would’ve been less if GMGM hadn’t been sending Fehr home.
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Perhaps “ploy” was too strong a word.
“Jerry, just remember, it’s not a lie if you believe it.”
-George Costanza
"Shots aren't the important thing. Scoring chances are way more important than shots." - Bruce Boudreau
See my work on WaPo's Capitals Insider, ESPN Insider and Russian Machine Never Breaks (RMNB) Insider. I also log the Caps scoring chances. The 2010-11 summary spreadsheet is posted on Google Docs.
Follow me on Twitter @ngreenberg
I remember reading somewhere that the Fehr trade was conditional to passing a medical evaluation on Monday (today)
What doesnt kill you makes you stronger.
by BetterOffWith28 on Jul 11, 2011 8:43 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
The trade has one last hurdle to pass in the next few days.
Fehr had surgery on his shoulder after the season was over and the Jets will have their medical experts check him over to make sure everything’s in order.
"Shots aren't the important thing. Scoring chances are way more important than shots." - Bruce Boudreau
See my work on WaPo's Capitals Insider, ESPN Insider and Russian Machine Never Breaks (RMNB) Insider. I also log the Caps scoring chances. The 2010-11 summary spreadsheet is posted on Google Docs.
Follow me on Twitter @ngreenberg
Oh, sweet, the Caps are relying on Fehr’s health now. Can’t see how that could go wrong…
(And thanks.)
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Btw, dibs on the headline “Fehr Flunks Physical, Fucks Former Franchise.”
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(Though I suppose the Caps wouldn’t be his former franchise at that point…)
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"Fehr Flunks Fysical, Fucks Former Franchise."
Fixed it for you.
"Shots aren't the important thing. Scoring chances are way more important than shots." - Bruce Boudreau
See my work on WaPo's Capitals Insider, ESPN Insider and Russian Machine Never Breaks (RMNB) Insider. I also log the Caps scoring chances. The 2010-11 summary spreadsheet is posted on Google Docs.
Follow me on Twitter @ngreenberg
I thought folks don’t like the deal. Caps don’t need to trade Fehr right now — they’re under the offseason cap. Doesn’t strike me as a big deal if it gets voided. The only person who really suffers is Fehr, who’d been planning to play back home.
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Jul 11, 2011 9:16 AM EDT up reply actions
Based on past situations like this, like you said Winnipeg knows about the shoulder surgery but in these cases teams want to make sure there are no other issues (like the other previously repaired shoulder) or issues with the recent surgery. As you noted see LA EDM for exhibit a and once again wow that quote from Lombardi about EDM was something.
by sk84fun_dc on Jul 11, 2011 9:03 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
If the Jets kill the deal, it would be a PR nightmare for the franchise. (Sample headline:“Jets Crush Fehr’s Boyhood Dream of Playing for Hometown Team”) Despite all the goodwill for returning to Winnipeg, management is already feeling some heat for not doing much in the off-season. That’s partly why they got Fehr in the first place. Fehr would have to walk into that physical carring one of his arms in a plastic bag for Winnipeg to walk away from the trade.
Physical
Edmonton isn’t involved so I don’t see the trade getting rescinded due to failed physical
by CapsDegenerate on Jul 11, 2011 10:44 AM EDT up reply actions
Thanks Neil, kinda busy at work right now to search for the article, I think it was from Winnipeg. I even remember it mentioning A deadline for MondAy at5PM
What doesnt kill you makes you stronger.
by BetterOffWith28 on Jul 11, 2011 8:56 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
No, BB was 100% right.
“Eric Fehr will be healthy enough to occupy the doghouse and sit on the bench by game 1.”
Obviously, this is all speculation.
by Rob Parker on Jul 11, 2011 8:41 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
That is a very low threshold of “healthiness.”
Nice guys finish first, but sometimes the season is awfully long.
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(For the folks reading this thread many hours later, I apologize for bringing it up again.)
I believe the answer is C, but D and E exacerbated it.
I think, if the list is in chronological order, then E belongs before B. If it was easier to sign Alzner, I think it would be have been done earlier, but that’s just speculation.
In addition, there is also another option which is “When trades of other players (i.e., Chimera, Semin) fell through.”
Nice guys finish first, but sometimes the season is awfully long.
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I agree with C—Ward took Fehr’s spot on the 3RW, and Sjogren provides the depth. Could McPhee and Fishman have misjudged the market for Alzner so much so that it precipitated the Fehr move? I guess so, but I doubt it.
Some people don't want to be informed. They want to find out that what they already believe in is right. --Warren Peace
I’d go with C for sure, since GMGM has even stated that Ward was way more than they had anticipated, and that Ward could easily replace Fehr on the third line.
"I remembered when he said that and I kind of looked at him during the warm up and told myself that I got to shut these guys out tonight." - Michal Neuvirth, 02.06.11.
I’m going with some time in between B and C, but the idea had been there for a while, no doubt.
I think snagging Brouwer was them choosing Brouwer over Fehr. But I think they’d have held onto Fehr at that point, maybe give him one last chance. But they were obviously still looking for at least one wing (i.e. Ward), so when they landed one, that just sealed the deal.
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I think that’s probably true. They weren’t going to bail on Fehr until they knew they had the players to replace him. I also think that given the statements we heard, both verbal and non-verbal, it was pretty clear that Fehr was going to be out.
D’oh has laid out the logic pretty clearly that this off-season is a statement that GMGM is fully behind BB and places the blame on the players. Ted talked about changes coming. Well, changes require… change. So looking at the list of who might go, every one of us was able to figure out it was going to be a Young Gun for massive change or a combination of 2-4 guys that were more expendable. Fehr was obviously on the expendable list. GMGM had to know he was going to try to force Fehr out of the lineup before even the draft. Fehr was, at best, an emergency asset in case Ward was way too expensive, but even if they didn’t get Ward I bet they go for another defensive-minded F. You just can’t trust Fehr to take those third line minutes, what with his brutal D zone turnovers at least 4 times a shift.
Obviously, this is all speculation.
I think it’s much simpler than that. Fehr’s a nice player, but not someone you can count on when you’re in cap hell. He’s injured so much, you have to carry an extra player to cover for him. And the Caps can’t afford that. So they can’t afford Eric Fehr.
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Jul 11, 2011 9:18 AM EDT up reply actions
The #Fancystats have generally backed Fehr as a pretty solid F, for what that’s worth. I just wonder whether BB may have had a legitimate gripe with Fehr, whether it be his work ethic, drive, willingness to follow instructions, etc.
I wonder what conversations BB and GMGM had about Fehr that may have led to him eventually being cast aside for nothing.
You’re missing my answer. It’s
G) when Tomas Vokoun fell in their laps
The difference between Vokoun and Holtby is $800,000. They probably knew the likely cost of Brouwer when they acquired him, they probably think they still know the likely cost of Alzner and haven’t moved off of what they think it’ll take to sign him (or he’d be signed), and they probably signed Ward with all of that in mind.
But you can’t say “no” to Vokoun in that situation, even if it costs you another player that you’d like to keep.
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Jul 11, 2011 9:13 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
So you think that sans Vokes, they’d have kept Fehr? Not sure I see that – I think the Ward signing was the Fehr death knell.
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Yeah, I do think that. Right now they have no scoring line depth. And the return for Fehr was so low, that says to me it was unplanned and out of necessity. Nothing unplanned about signing Joel Ward, but there was plenty unplanned about acquiring Vokoun.
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Jul 11, 2011 9:35 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Yeah, I do think that. Right now they have no scoring line depth.
True story.
And the return for Fehr was so low, that says to me it was unplanned and out of necessity.I think people under-estimate the impact of his health on the return they got. I also think it was pretty clear that Fehr wasn’t someone who BB felt comfortable utilizing.
Nothing unplanned about signing Joel Ward, but there was plenty unplanned about acquiring Vokoun.But the dollars there (the delta b/t he and BH70) aren’t enough to cover Fehr’s salary – at least one significant move would still have had to have been made (maybe it would’ve been Chimera, I suppose).
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I’m assuming Chimera gone when I say they could have kept Fehr.
Ward-Laich-Fehr is a lot better than Chimera-Laich-Ward
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Jul 11, 2011 9:53 AM EDT up reply actions
Eh, I’m not sure it’s a lot better over the course of a season, given Fehr’s durability.
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_____________
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Jul 11, 2011 10:50 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
About 2.7 seconds before I used it. Was hoping Google Image Search would give me a hamlet.
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Jul 11, 2011 10:57 AM EDT up reply actions
Fehr
I’m sure Fehr was targeted for movement long before GMGM went shopping. Whether it was “definite” or “only if I spend more $$$$ than I need to signing everyone” is to be determined.
But then, once Brouwer was signed (choice D) – GMGM was probably convinced Fehr needed to go for certain.
by CapsDegenerate on Jul 11, 2011 10:51 AM EDT up reply actions
It’s noteworthy that McPhee has been able to shed the roster of its three most injury prone* players in a matter of two weeks.
Some people don't want to be informed. They want to find out that what they already believe in is right. --Warren Peace
by bigonetimer on Jul 11, 2011 10:56 AM EDT up reply actions
What about Mike “western omelet” Green?
Comrades, leave me here a little, while as yet 't is early morn:
Leave me here, and when you want me, sound upon the bugle-horn
I don’t think “injury prone” is appropriate for Green yet. He had some injuries this season that were hard to come back from, but when he did he seemed to be 70%-80% of what we expect from him. He doesn’t rise to the level of Fehr’s glass shoulders or Poti’s career-threatening groin yet.
In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.
He has great games played numbers but the shoulder, big mac cheeks and the concussion are getting rather worrisome.
Comrades, leave me here a little, while as yet 't is early morn:
Leave me here, and when you want me, sound upon the bugle-horn
I would say “lack of judgement” or “failure to protect himself” are more accurate than “injury prone”.
"Neuvy was eating pucks for breakfast, lunch, and dinner."
by SeattleCapsFan on Jul 11, 2011 12:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Same difference due to the end results.
Comrades, leave me here a little, while as yet 't is early morn:
Leave me here, and when you want me, sound upon the bugle-horn
Not quite the same. You can teach the judgment and skill to avoid some of those injuries. Physical frailness (at least relative physical frailness at the NHL level) is not something as easily mitigated.
In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.
true, but injuries beget injuries. Especially with Green’s concussion and shoulder — both of those leave him more vulnerable to the same injuries in the future. Plus, whatever is keeping him from working out during the summer(s)
Comrades, leave me here a little, while as yet 't is early morn:
Leave me here, and when you want me, sound upon the bugle-horn
Your math just doesn’t make sense though. If you assume that Alzner’s asking somewhere in the $3.5 range and that the Caps are looking to pay somewhere in the $2.5 range and that the Caps only have $400k in cap space right now, trading Fehr + removing the $800k difference between Vokoun and Holtby still doesn’t get the Caps under the Cap.
Prior to trading Fehr, they were $1.8m over the cap (or thereabouts). Add in $3m for Alzner, and they’re $4.8m over the cap. Remove the $800k for Vokoun and you’re at $4m. Remove Poti and you’re still over, and I think writing off his cap hit is far from a foregone conclusion.
In other words, the Caps still needed to trade Fehr. Combined with the fact that they brought in three wings this off-season and it seems clear as day to me that they intended to trade him some time ago.
Armareddon.
I did a capgeek earlier with Fehr and Vokoun on the roster. No time to look for it now. It wasn’t pretty, but it was rule-compliant. And after a few games, you could call up a replacement forward if someone got hurt.
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Jul 11, 2011 10:51 AM EDT up reply actions
I’m just looking at the basic math from Capgeek as it stands now and as it stood prior to the trade. I don’t know what kind of extra moves you made in your roster.
Moreover, I think we’re both writing off the fact that GMGM will want some flexibility over the course of the season. To that end, I don’t think he’s done trading.
Armareddon.
I still had it up. (In another browser on Capgeek, you perv)
CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR
FORWARDS
Alexander Ovechkin ($9.538m) / Nicklas Backstrom ($6.700m) / Mike Knuble ($2.000m)
Troy Brouwer ($2.350m) / Marcus Johansson ($0.900m) / Alexander Semin ($6.700m)
Joel Ward ($3.000m) / Brooks Laich ($4.500m) / Eric Fehr ($2.200m)
Matt Hendricks ($0.825m) / Jeff Halpern ($0.825m) / Jay Beagle ($0.512m)
DEFENSEMEN
Roman Hamrlik ($3.500m) / Mike Green ($5.250m)
Karl Alzner ($3.750m) / John Carlson ($0.845m)
Dennis Wideman ($3.937m) / Jeff Schultz ($2.750m)
John Erskine ($1.500m)
GOALTENDERS
Michal Neuvirth ($1.150m) / Braden Holtby ($0.637m)
BUYOUTS: Tyler Sloan ($0.233m)
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $63,605,405; BONUSES: $80,000
CAP SPACE (21-man roster): $694,595
There’s space enough for Eakin.
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Jul 11, 2011 11:00 AM EDT up reply actions
But not Orlov. And there’s no room for pretty much anything else in trade unless guys are made to go away.
And you’re assuming that Poti is on LTIR or made to go away. I think that’s where you could make an ass out of u and me.
Armareddon.
There’s nothing that possibly works with Poti still on this team.
And yeah, this team is 2 injuries deep at defense, 1 injury deep at forward and goal. Any more injuries than that, and folks are going to have to go on LTIR.
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Jul 11, 2011 11:08 AM EDT up reply actions
And your roster also has no Chimera… Not to enter into the conversation we’ve been having regarding him, but that’s a serious confounding variable that you’re discounting.
Armareddon.
I thought I made it clear above — I was already assuming it would come down to Fehr or Chimera.
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Jul 11, 2011 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions
To put the same thing the other way, there was already no room for Chimera if you kept Fehr and no room for Fehr if you kept Chimera.
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Jul 11, 2011 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions
Right. Which is why if the Caps want to keep Semin, I think both Fehr and Chimera need to go.
I’m just curious about Chimera, since the team clearly saw him in a leadership role (given the A), and since there’s supposedly a newfound emphasis on “accountability.”
Armareddon.
How about DJ Kings money…seems like 600K we could use
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I’m with you. I expect Chimera follows Fehr out the door.
Depth is looking a bit stretched when does, though.
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Despite my desire to see Semin magically turn into a bona-fide 2C, I’d rather take the marginal loss from Fehr/Chimera to Sjogren/Eakin than take the drop-off from Semin to . . . Brouwer?
Armareddon.
This is why the Caps’ roster construction has always worried me. Lots of $$$ tied up in two very talented wings.
Armareddon.
I get the feeling that it’s going to be only one very talented wing next year, and the Caps will instead have a lot of money tied up in three very talented defensemen.
Tortorella: Can I get another question? I went in here in a pretty good mood today, too.
Larry Brooks: So did I.
Tortorella: Well, you obviously f***ed that up, didn't you?
Yeah, that’s my hope. He looks like he’s going to be great, though I really hope that his recent shoulder issues don’t turn him into Fehr 2.0. Then again, Fehr was never the dominant sort of player Kuznetsov seems to be.
Tortorella: Can I get another question? I went in here in a pretty good mood today, too.
Larry Brooks: So did I.
Tortorella: Well, you obviously f***ed that up, didn't you?
if the Caps want to keep Semin, I think both Fehr and Chimera need to go.
Before Vokoun was signed, the Caps could have kept Semin and either Fehr or Chimera, but not both. After Vokoun, it became impossible to keep Fehr. But I think they could still keep Chimera if they want to, and still have barely enough room for one callup, but it gets very tight at that point. (As you know, I’d rather that they play Sjogren or Eakin and have extra salary capability).
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Jul 11, 2011 4:33 PM EDT up reply actions
If Poti isn’t made to go away then I seriously question GMGM’s judgment.
Obviously, this is all speculation.
And/or his ability to clean up after himself.
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I guess. But after what happened with Nyls you’d think he knows how to bury a guy if he needs to clean up after himself. If he doesn’t bury Poti it’s because, presumably, he thinks Poti is going to contribute this season. I guess the alternative reason would be so he doesn’t hurt Tommy’s feelings by sending him to an AHL injury retirement. Neither outlook is confidence inspiring. Tom Poti is not going to be a reliable contributor this year; certainly not enough to justify the cap hit. We have 6 NHL caliber D that are as good or better than him, and a 7th that isn’t as talented but isn’t as injury riddled or expensive. Tom Poti would be an awfully expensive 7D.
Obviously, this is all speculation.
Don’t disagree with any of that. My only issue is that I can see Poti not being healthy enough to go to the AHL, meaning he spends the year on LTIR. Which means we can’t bank his cap space. Which means the Caps are basically back at the point where they need to free up some more room should they desire deadline flexibility.
Armareddon.
I don’t buy it. Theoretically you could be right. In practice it’s just not a realistic concern.
The NHL exhibits almost zero oversight over how teams categorize the health of players. Short of a huge public embarrassment, they don’t even ask. So if the Caps come into camp and say “Poti is healthy, we are demoting him because he’s not good enough to justify his salary cap hit” the league won’t ask questions. Conversely, if LTIR was in our interest and the Caps wanted to say “Poti is hurt, he can’t play so he’s LTIR” the league wouldn’t ask questions (the Mike Rathje solution).
If the Caps want to demote Poti to get him to the AHL they will have the opportunity. I don’t know if they will take advantage of it, but I think they should. I’d make him prove he can stay healthy in HER before risking a roster spot and cap space on having him on the NHL roster.
Obviously, this is all speculation.
I share D’oh’s concerns. I think more likely than not they work something out where Poti leaves the roster entirely, but it’s not a sure thing.
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Jul 11, 2011 12:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Yep, that’s easily the best end-game here.
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Especially given the team’s desire to do right by loyal soldiers. I know GMGM stuffed Nylander in the minors, but I get the feeling that he tried a gajillion times to find a taker, and it was only after that the Nyls was sent to hockey purgatory.
I foresee a similar scenario playing out with Poti, only this time it’ll involve an injury and an NHLPA grievance if the Caps try to force Poti to the AHL when he’s not healthy. Then Poti will acrimoniously end up on LTIR.
Armareddon.
Why would Poti give up that money? I mean, he already left enough on the table, no need to give it all away.
Obviously, this is all speculation.
by Rob Parker on Jul 11, 2011 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
ISWYDT.
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by Bald Pollack on Jul 11, 2011 1:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Given that Rathje, Hatcher, and basically nobody ever files a grievance, no I don’t think it’ll happen.
Obviously, this is all speculation.
I’m not afraid of the grievance for putting him on LTIR. I’m afraid of the grievance for sending him to the AHL when he’s hurt. Poti on LTIR is much worse than Poti in the A.
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Jul 11, 2011 4:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Right, I know what grievance you are talking about. I just don’t see the same threat. Poti is on a one-way deal. It is not going to be a matter of money for him. If he can’t play, why does he care if he counts on the cap? If he gets to the point where he can play, then bring him up through waivers and if someone wants him then fine (although maybe eating half his salary for no performance creates pressure on GMGM to keep him in the AHL even if he heals). Is anyone aware of a player filing a grievance in a similar situation to Poti? It seems like it’s “just not the way things are done” in the NHL.
Obviously, this is all speculation.
Can you think of any player that accepted a one way ticket to the AHL when he was hurt?
I’m not really aware of any precedent either way.
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Jul 11, 2011 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, I’ll think about it but it seems like a pretty rare situation. If Tom Poti is a loyal soldier, then he should shut his fucking mouth and deal with it. If he can’t see the implications for the team, and wants to be a prick about it, he can go Scrooge McDuck into a mountain of peanuts for all I care.
At some point GMGM should probably reinforce the “loyal” part in all these loyal soldier deals.
Obviously, this is all speculation.
by Rob Parker on Jul 11, 2011 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
It’s my understanding that only the NHL or NHLPA can bring a grievance, and it has nothing to do with whether a player wants to file the grievance or not. You better believe the union won’t let a member player get sent to the minors while injured, just to clear their cap hit, even if the player doesn’t take any active steps towards filing a grievance.
Tortorella: Can I get another question? I went in here in a pretty good mood today, too.
Larry Brooks: So did I.
Tortorella: Well, you obviously f***ed that up, didn't you?
You don’t think the players have any say in the matter? If it was all union, then Rathje would have had a grievance on his behalf.
Obviously, this is all speculation.
Maybe because his back wasn’t ever healthy enough to allow him to play again? And bringing a grievance would have been a waste of time and money on the union’s part? There’s a reason he’s not playing in the league anymore.
Tortorella: Can I get another question? I went in here in a pretty good mood today, too.
Larry Brooks: So did I.
Tortorella: Well, you obviously f***ed that up, didn't you?
The reason he’s not in the league is the same reason he was on LTIR for PHI. Because he’s not any good. They used the knee injury as an excuse to LTIR him. We’d basically be doing the opposite with Poti. Saying he’s healed but isn’t very good so we are demoting him. He can try to prove himself, or not, in HER. I have little doubt that any strenuous attempt to prove himself will result in another blown groin. I’d just rather have that attempt happen where it won’t mess up our cap.
Obviously, this is all speculation.
I believe that what you just wrote is the actual standard, from some legal union document.
And that it’s also utter horseshit. (and I use that term as a legal term of art for something written on paper and signed by duly authorized personnel that everyone neverthless believes is totally untrue)
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Jul 11, 2011 5:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Let me rephrase: I think the union can bring a grievance on behalf of a player who asks them to. I also believe that the union can bring a grievance on their own without any support from the player.
Tortorella: Can I get another question? I went in here in a pretty good mood today, too.
Larry Brooks: So did I.
Tortorella: Well, you obviously f***ed that up, didn't you?
Yup. And I get frustrated over what they do, and don’t choose to grieve. But that’s OT. You’re absolutely right, though.
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Jul 11, 2011 8:48 PM EDT up reply actions
I wonder how much of our agony on Poti is just navel-gazing while both the team and Poti are honestly trying to figure out whether or not he will be able to play next season?
Would the best result (for cap implications) be the team sends Poti down to the AHL for a long-term conditioning stint and then decides he has to go to the LTIR from there? Poti just isn’t going to retire and give up the contract, because he isn’t exactly going to have hockey-player income after he retires.
Does Poti’s contract pay differently at the AHL level? If not, wouldn’t the loyal soldier thing to do on his part be to accept the AHL demotion, cash your NHL-caliber checks, and then hope next year you can contribute again?
In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.
To answer your questions:
1) The best result for the cap is sending Poti down to the AHL and keeping him there. The problem is that to go to the AHL for longer than two weeks (and for salary cap relief), he has to clear waivers. You can’t put an injured player on waivers. Therefore, that’s a non-starter if he’s injured.
2) His contract is a one-way contract, so he gets paid the same amount of money regardless of whether he plays at the NHL or AHL level.
3) Even if it would be the loyal-soldier thing to do, there’s no way the NHLPA or the NHL let him go to the AHL and remain injured in the AHL. He’s going to have to play if he’s down there.
Tortorella: Can I get another question? I went in here in a pretty good mood today, too.
Larry Brooks: So did I.
Tortorella: Well, you obviously f***ed that up, didn't you?
Thanks. But then, what if Poti re-aggravates his injury in the AHL? What salary cap ramifications then if he legitimately goes to LTIR due to playing in the AHL? No difference?
Not that I want to see that happen, really. I wish Tom Poti well… just not on the salary cap.
In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.
If he plays in the AHL and legitimately gets injured, he doesn’t count on the cap (see Nylander, Michael 2010-2011 season).
Tortorella: Can I get another question? I went in here in a pretty good mood today, too.
Larry Brooks: So did I.
Tortorella: Well, you obviously f***ed that up, didn't you?
If you send Poti to the AHL (after clearing waivers on the way down), you really can’t call him back up to the main team. that’ll give another team an opportunity to grab him on reentry waivers. and if they do that, the Caps pay (and are liable for the cap hit for) 1/2 his salary. The Caps absolutely cannot afford to carry a dead 1.5 Million cap hit.
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Jul 11, 2011 4:38 PM EDT up reply actions
You mean cannot afford to carry another dead 1.5 million cap hit? Add up the overpayments for loyal soldiers and I think you get to 1.5 pretty damn quick. Whether it’s overpaying a roster player, a buyout for Sloan, or a re-entry waivers hit on Poti, I don’t see much difference in how “dead” the cap space is. It’s cap space unwisely spent. Just because Sloan and Poti (hypothetically) won’t even be on the roster doesn’t make the space a worse allocation.
Obviously, this is all speculation.
So we’re adding dead space for “bad” contracts, right?
OK, $3 Million in open space for Vokoun. $2 Million in open space for Neuvirth. $500,000 for Sjogren (who doubtless could have gotten more if league rules allowed it — and I’m not counting any other ELCs). $1 Million for Green.
OK, where’s the $6.5 million in dead space that makes up for all the good contracts on this team?
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Jul 11, 2011 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m just saying poorly used cap space is all the same. At the end of the day the big picture is what matters. If the savings exceed the bad spending then the team should be ok.
But saying that we can’t afford more poorly used money because it’s “dead” is disingenuous. What if we signed TSlo to 1.5 million? Not “dead” space, but we still can’t afford it.
Obviously, this is all speculation.
But seriously, add up the overpayments. Poti’s going to be gone. You have $233,333 to Sloan. How much more of the roster space is loyal soldier overpayments? $1 Million to Laich? I don’t think so, not after this offseason. Maybe $500,000 to him. About $250,000 to Hendricks. Another $500,000 to Ward. Maybe $300,000 to Erskine? (Though honestly, that guy earned his salary last year). Wideman’s overpaid, but that don’t count as loyal solider BS — McPhee didn’t do it.
I get less than $3 Million. Or, you know, exactly the discount Vokoun took. Less than 5% of the salary cap.
The truth is that the bulk of the Caps’ salary is productive money. I keep saying it — as long as McPhee keeps his mistakes small and his successes big, I’m happy with him.
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Jul 11, 2011 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
You just argued that we are looking, at best, at having Poti in LTIR! How are you going to assume he’s gone! As far as I’m concerned, LTIR is almost the same as having him on the roster as the 7D.
So why can’t they continue to take on more dead space since their savings are so huge?
Obviously, this is all speculation.
I ain’t going to defend the Poticontract. But the Caps are going to Nylander him, one way or another. He ain’t going to be on the cap. And we’re talking about cap space here.
I ain’t going to admit that the overpayment situation over the rest of the roster is a serious problem. I don’t believe that. Whole lot of teams in this league are overpaying a single player a lot more than the Caps are overpaying everyone else.
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Jul 11, 2011 5:08 PM EDT up reply actions
How does Poti come off the books if he doesn’t retire or go to the AHL?
Obviously, this is all speculation.
Does Poti have an NMC? My understanding with the Nylander thing is that we were stuck with his contract on the cap because we weren’t able to assign him to the minors.
With Poti, can’t he simply be "Redden"ed, that is, he still counts to our 50 contracts and we still have to pay him his 2.85, but that it won’t be on the cap in Washington?
Of course, if someone were to pick him up on the waiver wire, all’s well that end’s well, too, yes?
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Right, but Gouldie and D’oh think Poti won’t let us send him to the AHL.
Obviously, this is all speculation.
He has no NMC. But you can’t waive an injured player. His groin has a no movement clause.
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Jul 11, 2011 5:14 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Ahhhh. Gotcha. That’s the part of the equation I was missing.
So, in theory, we can LTIR Poti until he’s healthy, and once he’s cleared to play, make the assignment move. So.. still should be in the clear to clear him from the cap hit?
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If he’s on LTIR, then they can spend over the salary cap by the amount of his salary.
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Jul 11, 2011 5:13 PM EDT up reply actions
But you can’t bank it, which helps a lot.
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Right. If we want to do anything at the deadline, we’d better be banking something. Banking $0 through late February isn’t going to allow us to get much. Maybe we can pull Scotty Walker out of retirement…
Obviously, this is all speculation.
Which is why I can’t get behind the “it’s only .5% of the total cap” argument. Yes, that’s true in a vacuum, but all of these dumb decision taken together result in a weaker team.
Unless they help you with the good deals.
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Jul 11, 2011 4:48 PM EDT up reply actions
I think an argument linking T-Slo and T-Po’s contract’s to Vokoun’s contract is tenuous at best.
Armareddon.
I think there’s a legitimate argument that people want to come to DC. I say that because people keep coming to DC. And saying that they wanted to come to DC. And sometimes, taking less money to come to DC. Or choosing DC when they’d get identical money elsewhere.
I think it’s legitimate to say, maybe you don’t fuck with that. Maybe you keep promoting that kind of thing, keep treating people right, and hope that you continue to have that kind of reputation.
Of course Vokoun didn’t come to the DC because they treated Tyler Sloan right. But if they didn’t treat people right, maybe he would have taken his $1.5 Million contract to Detroit, or San Jose, or Tampa, or some other successful organization.
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Jul 11, 2011 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions
People come to play for the Caps for the same reason that fans keep filling the stadium:
Because the Caps win.
Period.
Armareddon.
Right. And I don’t know that the Caps have a history of treating players all that well. Michael Nylander, for instance, ought to be a cautionary tale for anyone considering signing a contract with the Caps as a UFA.
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Larry Brooks: So did I.
Tortorella: Well, you obviously f***ed that up, didn't you?
Unless they help you with the good deals.
“They” being dumb decisions in favor of the Caps? I don’t see why you would credit those. Every deal is independent. Just because Neuvirth signed a sweetheart deal doesn’t mandate that Poti be given an extension as a Karmic offset. It’s possible to win the Neuvy negotiation and not shit the bed with Poti/Sloan/King.
I ain’t ever going to defend the Poti deal. Didn’t like it then, don’t like it now.
But Hendricks? TSlo? These things are chump change. Worth the investment in defining who you are as a team and an organization.
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Jul 11, 2011 4:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Nope, original contract was dumb. Paying $233,333 to let him go — not worth losing sleep over.
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Jul 11, 2011 5:09 PM EDT up reply actions
The best result is that Poti retires, his salary is covered (mostly) by insurance, and he takes a front-office position with the team that covers his deductible and any remaining salary difference.
Armareddon.
The best result is that Poti retires
Looks like you may be getting your wish.
cmasisak22 Corey Masisak
#Caps McPhee says Tom Poti’s injury “not any better than it was 6 months ago.” He’d like to have Poti for next yr but “not counting on him.”
That sounds to me more like he’s spending the year on LTIR. It would be a bummer for him to lose the contract money by retiring, but I imagine the team would find a job for him if he wants it.
Don’t try to figure Sasha out. Just ride the wave.
What’s the deal on insurance? Don’t guys usually get coverage to protect themselves against an injury curtailing their career?
Poti’s made enough money and is at an age (and with 2yrs of guaranteed money left) that I’d be shocked if he had such a policy. My understanding is that teams get insurance on a limited number of players, but I assume that insurance pays the team if they have to pay the player, not the player if he is forced to retire. And who knows if Poti was actually a player that was covered.
by Dirk Dangler on Jul 11, 2011 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Poti is a nerd, so, I’d bet he would have insurance.
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by sydtron on Jul 11, 2011 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I’m still trying to figure out what he did to deserve that. Did he throw a Warhammer figure at someone while he was on the bench?
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he went to college, duh
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Well it was in Pittsburgh and the Pens were losing 6-1 in the 3rd. I’m not sure there was a lot of thought put into the comment.
Release the Mackan!
by Killer_Carlson on Jul 11, 2011 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Always glad to help.
Release the Mackan!
by Killer_Carlson on Jul 11, 2011 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions
I think you’re missing one option:
G) Before the draft.
I think the best postseason return GMGM could’ve received for Fehr would have been at the draft. He publicly said that he’d spoken with Chicago about Brouwer prior to the draft and he’d already signed Sjogren. We know that he targeted Ward (at $3m/4years, did he ever) prior to the outset of free agency.
I don’t know exactly when he knew he was going to trade Fehr, but I at least know that he planned on bringing in some wings, and I know that those wings would essentially occupy the same roster spot and salary cap slot as Fehr.
Add this to the fact that we know Fehr isn’t exactly an on-ice favorite of the coach and. . . I’m pretty much of the opinion that he knew he was out of the door a while ago. Which is in large part what makes the paltry return so galling.
Armareddon.
I think you’re missing one option:
G) Before the draft.
Wouldn’t that be A) Long before the Brouwer Trade?
Release the Mackan!
by Killer_Carlson on Jul 11, 2011 12:41 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
The timeline is irrelevant to me. Whether it was 6 months ago or 6 weeks ago doesn’t matter functionally, except insofar as if they knew he was gone 6 months ago, they should have been looking to deal him at the deadline when he was (ostensibly) healthy.
Either way, I feel like GMGM’s moves this offseason have made it clear that he planned on revamping the team at the depth wing position, and that therefore he ought to have moved Fehr at the draft, when the return was likely to be higher.
In all likelihood, he may well have tried to move him at the draft and found no takers at the asking price. Or he may simply have decided that there were no prospects worth trading up for in this year’s draft.
Armareddon.
I saw reference in one article or another that the FO had a list of players they targeted, and the amount of salary that they would allocate to that player.
I’d love to know who was on the list and where Brouwer and Ward ranked on it.
I suppose the chances of getting that info are nil, but it would be real interesting to see what other plans or strategies the club had on paper.
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Well in the trade post I already made my point about why I think GMGM was right to hold on to Fehr until he had the replacements signed, even if he knew he wanted to replace Fehr at the draft. My comment here was more to point out that JP’s option A is the same thing as your option G.
Release the Mackan!
by Killer_Carlson on Jul 11, 2011 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Not really. I think GMGM likely had some kind of understanding with Chicago leading up to the draft. I’m not sure if that’s “Long before the Brouwer trade.”
Here’s how I see it: they knew they wanted to change their wings. They accepted early on that Fehr was the likely casualty if they were successful. I think in that case you trade him earlier to maximize your return. I can see the argument for the other side though (hold onto him to give you negotiating leverage with UFAs).
Armareddon.
Doesn’t help ’em with Ward.
And if they dump Fehr and don’t get Ward, the remaining options aren’t so good. Ponikarovsky?
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Jul 11, 2011 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Doesn’t help ’em with Ward.
Which is why, although I understand that side of the argument, I don’t really agree with it.
Armareddon.
It’s not “hold onto him to give you negotiating leverage with UFAs.” It’s “hold onto him so you’re not completely boned if you don’t get the guy you really want.”
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Jul 11, 2011 4:46 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t think an injured Fehr was really make-or-break for this team after getting Sjogren and Ward. Especially with Eakin in the fold.
Armareddon.
“After getting … Ward.” After we got Ward we were in a bind. Before that, when we had leverage to move Fehr, we weren’t sure he was expendable.
Obviously, this is all speculation.
Sorry, I’m lost.
My point was if they knew that Fehr was the likely casualty, it was better to get rid of him earlier rather than later. Once Ward, Hamrlik, Halpern and Vokoun were on board, he HAD to go, and then we got fork-stabbed.
Armareddon.
OK, imagine a hypothetical world where the Caps don’t acquire Sjogren and Ward. Do you think the Caps should trade Fehr away before the draft in that world? Do you think they should trade him away in mid-July in that world?
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Jul 11, 2011 5:00 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m imagining the real world in which GMGM already had Sjogren before the draft and had already discussed Brouwer before the draft.
Between Sjogren, Brouwer and Eakin, I think the Caps were pretty decently covered in the event that Ward or another UFA winger slipped from their grasp.
Remember, we’re talking about a guy who wasn’t healthy and couldn’t stay out of Boudreau’s doghouse. I’m not really seeing him as an integral part of the 2011-2012 Washington Capitals and, clearly, neither did the organization.
Given that’s the case, I’m betting they tried and failed to unload him at the draft.
Armareddon.
So now we’re counting on Eakin and Sjogren as our fallbacks if we don’t get Ward. Sounds dodgy to me. Especially since they’re likely to end up playing at least one of them on opening night anyway, and the Caps did get Ward.
And by the way, if he did try and fail to unload him at the draft, then maybe a 4th rounder is fair compensation for an injured, injury-prone wing. Or at least not far off it.
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Jul 11, 2011 5:10 PM EDT up reply actions
then maybe a 4th rounder is fair compensation for an injured, injury-prone wing. Or at least not far off it.
This is the conclusion I’m coming to.
Armareddon.
The corollary to my point being: the Caps were willing to out-bid the opposition for Ward even with Fehr in the fold. Given that being the case, what was the point of holding onto Fehr?
I suppose maybe if the bidding had gone up to $3.5m, but. . . seriously?
Armareddon.
Oh, I agree that if McPhee had gotten on a conference call with all the GMs, say, on June 15, and asked them what they were bidding for Ward, and none of them came up to 3.0 Million, and they all swore not to go above that — then yes, it would have made sense to trade Fehr away then. But unless he knew for sure he was getting Ward, maybe you hang onto Fehr until you know that 3RW is taken care of.
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Jul 11, 2011 5:01 PM EDT up reply actions
So Ward falls through. Oh NOES!!! What ever shall the Caps do with Ovechkin, Semin, Knuble, Brouwer, Chimera, Sjogren, Eakin, Hendricks, and Beagle?
How on earth would they fill the hole left by an injury-prone guy who plays the least-important position on the ice and was already in the coach’s doghouse?
Armareddon.
Aren’t you now arguing against your own position that the Caps are utter buffoons for not dealing such a valuable player earlier and getting a draft pick a round or two higher?
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Jul 11, 2011 5:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Not directly in response to your question, but I suspect GMGM had several possible strategies to pursue in terms of personnel change-out/upgrade. It would stand to reason that he had a similar number of contingent strategies to ship out redundant players, once it became clearer which potential strategy would be realized.
One, I have to believe, included upgrading the C personnel.
At any rate, keeping Fehr for as long as he did raised his floor – it obviated the possibility where they end up with no competent wings (Fehr gone, no trade/signing for Brouwer, no signing of Ward). It also lowered the ceiling, by preventing him from getting max value for Fehr.
It also allowed him to negotiate for the W he did get from a position of strength. The narrative then was, “we’d like to have [Wing X] but we have reasonable in-house options if it doesn’t work out.” Obviously, the impact of that is pretty much impossible to ascertain, but I think it’s a factor that we have to acknowledge.
In response to your question, I would say D) and E) conjointly, just based on my gut.
Patron saint of quality footwear.
"we’d like to have [Wing X]…
And fighter B, though it’s a tie?
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by J.P. on Jul 11, 2011 11:20 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Red Leader, Standing By
Tortorella: Can I get another question? I went in here in a pretty good mood today, too.
Larry Brooks: So did I.
Tortorella: Well, you obviously f***ed that up, didn't you?
No…no…that’s not true…that’s impossible!
Founding member of the "Bring Silent Jay McClement to Washington" club.
by Flash in the Pan on Jul 11, 2011 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions
From GMGM’s presser today, I think the answer to the question “when did he know he was going to trade Fehr?” was approximately around the time they acquired Ward.
If you listened closely, however, it’s clear that they’d been considering trading him from the outset. Essentially, he said, “we wanted to pick up several wings. When we did that, we knew we’d have to ship some guys (Fehr) out for picks and prospects.”
Armareddon.
G) When he signed Vokoun.
Bruce Boudreau when asked about Brooks Laich's return to the lineup, he said: "He just adds another dimension to our team. If it was puzzle, he just fits that thing. He completes us."
Brooks Laich completing everything from teams to tires and everything in between.
GMGM’s one from today? No.
Was guessing that when Vokoun’s surprise signing happened McPhee suddenly found himself 1.5 closer to the cap than ever expected.
Bruce Boudreau when asked about Brooks Laich's return to the lineup, he said: "He just adds another dimension to our team. If it was puzzle, he just fits that thing. He completes us."
Brooks Laich completing everything from teams to tires and everything in between.
Nope. He said (paraphrasing): “we targeted some wings and we knew if we got them, we’d send out some roster players for draft picks to replenish the organization and get cap relief.”
Vokoun really didn’t factor it seems.
Armareddon.
Yeah, but he didn’t say which wings. Signing Ward may have meant that someone had to go — but signing Vokoun meant it had to be Fehr specifically.
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Jul 11, 2011 4:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Nope. Big difference between two players who add up to 2.5 and one player who himself gets 2.2. We’re playing at the margin here.
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Jul 11, 2011 4:47 PM EDT up reply actions
That’s just silly. King is a non-entity in terms of the team. If he goes away entirely, it literally does nothing but add some more cap space.
I’m not even sure what your point is here.
Armareddon.
Because if you move one guy you have to bring one salary back. Two presumably means you have to bring two salaries back (if you are holding an equally sized roster).
Obviously, this is all speculation.
??? GMGM specifically said they were looking to trade roster players for prospects and picks. What rule is there that requires bringing two salaries back?
Either I’m totally confused or your argument makes no sense.
Armareddon.
Without Chimera,
It is possible to make a Caps roster with 12 forwards, room for a call-up, and Eric Fehr, with Braden Holtby as the backup.
It is not possible to make a Caps roster with 12 forwards, room for a call-up, and Eric Fehr, with Vokoun as a goalie.
King is irrelevant. He could be one of those other 12 forwards, or he could be the call-up, or he could be outside the organization’s plans.
With Chimera,
It is possible to to make a Caps roster with 12 forwards and room for a call-up with either Vokoun or Holtby on the roster, as long as none of those forwards are Eric Fehr.
King is, again, irrelevant. He could be one of those other 12 forwards, or he could be the call-up, or he could be outside the organization’s plans.
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Jul 11, 2011 5:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Wouldn’t (or shouldn’t) the easier answer to be to use a little more discretion when it comes to extending your non-core/fringe assets long-term? Sloan’s a cap hit for the next 2 years, Poti’s extension kicks in now (as does Erskine if memory serves).
I’m all for locking up assets early as the next one, but it would appear that waiting a couple more months (rather than signing someone 5-12 months before their current deal expires) might avoid some of these issues.
"My favorite fan base in D.C. Is United's. Period. The end." - Steinberg
MLS: If you're on crystal meth you can ref a match, just don't swear in the stands.
by Bald Pollack on Jul 11, 2011 8:11 AM EDT up reply actions
Sure, but that ship had sailed. With Sloan, it was a question of mitigating the damage of the bad K (as it will be with Poti).
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How many ships have to leave port before it’s a problem though? Sloan wants to leave then fine, maybe he should have reconsidered his deal at the time, but by the same token locking him up more than a year before this situation comes up (and impacting your team now that he’s gone) might be something that should be rethought of in the future.
Maybe they should ask the question about these things that smarter man asks when things like this happen.
"My favorite fan base in D.C. Is United's. Period. The end." - Steinberg
MLS: If you're on crystal meth you can ref a match, just don't swear in the stands.
by Bald Pollack on Jul 11, 2011 8:20 AM EDT up reply actions
Just so we’re clear, I’m not saying that Tyler Sloan is the reason why Eric Fehr was sent to the ‘Peg for 40 cents on the dollar*, simply the FO’s thinking when it comes to these extensions is one of the reasons why we are where we are when it comes to making decisions on assets.
"My favorite fan base in D.C. Is United's. Period. The end." - Steinberg
MLS: If you're on crystal meth you can ref a match, just don't swear in the stands.
by Bald Pollack on Jul 11, 2011 8:24 AM EDT up reply actions
Agreed – why sign fringe NHLers (at best) to multi-year deals? It. Does. Not. Make. Sense.
(To be clear, Poti’s a different story – more than a fringe NHLer when healthy.)
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Does it just seem like GMGM loves signing people to 2 year deals? It just seems like Semin is the only full time NHLer under 30 he’s signed to a 1 year deal.
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One exception that almost proves the rule you’re laying out here: Jay Beagle’s multiyear contract puts his cap hit at below the league minimum salary this year, because it’s averaged from the previous year when the minimum was lower.
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Jul 11, 2011 9:19 AM EDT up reply actions
Whyno posted something about Sloan asking for a trade.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2011/jul/8/capitals-defenseman-tyler-sloan-bought-out-because/
It seems that McPhee bought him out to give him a chance to sign on with another NHL team, or have some say in where he went.
Because now I can justify browsing and commenting during the work day with the argument that I am promoting my business.
by Sombrero Guy on Jul 11, 2011 10:11 AM EDT up reply actions
Right – they did the guy a solid at a cost (vis a vis the cap). Good PR/human relations, bad cap management, given the alternative(s).
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
I tend to think they were doing Fehr a solid by shipping him off to his hometown team. Not sure if GMGM had many other offers, particularly given F16’s health issues. He probably could have gotten a better return by waiting until Fehr was healthy, but took the bird in the hand.
I also think the Jets were probably keen on bringing in a hometown boy so they were willing to take a risk on his health.
Just trying to capture the spirit of the thing...
by dcsportsfan1 on Jul 11, 2011 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions
And if Varly is really telling the truth, then McPhee did him a solid by trading him to his favorite boyhood team. Of course, the possible lottery pick in return probably helped.
Ok, I know some people think Varly is full of lies now, but you really think he is lying about being a fan of Roy as child? Yesterday I was looking for something on him and I came across a quote from a translated article on this site from 2009 where he talked about Roy. Seriously, I think people are taking things a little too far if they are going to disbelieve everything he says from now on.
Who do you compare yourself to in sports? Who is your idol?
"I used to consider Patrick Roy as my hockey idol. I wouldn’t say, of course, that I compare myself to him-I was just really attracted to his style of play. Right now, the person I am trying to equate myself with is Roger Federer, the Swiss tennis player. I like how he devotes himself to the game, his favorite thing. This is a guy who is always at the highest level, constantly winning tournaments, and his high bar never falls. He is a very stable athlete. In my own game I’d like to achieve the same stability that he has."
Taking it to the extreme, aren’t you? Roy isn’t controversial. He is unrelated to Varly’s negotiations with the Caps and is only tangential to his trade to the Avs.
(Yes, I know about the avatar hounding - just pretend mine is invisible.)
When b.orr suggests that Varly is lying about the Avs being his childhood favorite team, which Varly stated was because he was a fan of Roy growing up, I think it’s reasonable to respond with a source with Varly saying he was a fan of Roy in 2009. Not everything out of Varly’s mouth is a lie. I don’t consider giving a source to back up something Varly said which b.orr said is in doubt to be unrelated to the discussion. If you personally find my comments unrelated and tangential, then don’t read them.
Nice pull. I note with interest Varly’s comment that Federer
is a very stable athlete. In my own game I’d like to achieve the same stability that he has.
So you’ve got a guy who prizes “stability”, has unstable health, and is in a comically unstable work situation (three closely -matched G spinning under a coach with flexible standards). Why wouldn’t he be, as he said, “ready for a change”?
....when the truth is if they knew anything about the game, they'd be in it.
--GMGM
This just mystifies me even more. Sloan wants to be traded. Ok, GMGM presumably offered him to every team. GMGM then put Sloan on waivers and nobody claimed him. On a one year, $700K contract, I can’t believe the contract is why teams didn’t take him. It’s because he’s not a very good hockey player. At that point, I think it would have been very fair for GMGM to say, “Tyler, we tried and nobody wants you, even for free. So I’m sorry, but you need to ride out this year in Hershey and then you can do what you want.” To then give him the buyout, I really don’t get it unless they wanted to make sure that Tyler wasn’t getting more ice in Hershey than others higher in the prospect pecking order and didn’t want to be “unfair” by loaning him to another AHL team where he assuredly wouldn’t be called up.
by Dirk Dangler on Jul 11, 2011 10:18 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Yea, stupid loyal soldiers. Should have been stashed in Hershey for a year.
Proud member of the Popsicle Division of the Cupcake Conference.
We’re talking about 0.5% of the salary cap here. I think that’s a good investment in goodwill no matter how close you are to the top of the cap. The benefits of other investments in goodwill (Vokoun taking 1.5 Million, Sjogren choosing the Caps) have already paid benefits. I’m fine with it.
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Jul 11, 2011 10:55 AM EDT up reply actions
Sloan
I’m sure GMGM just looked at it and said something like “the buyout amount isn’t even half a percent of the salary cap” and didn’t think it would matter.
Would agree that lacks some foresight………
by CapsDegenerate on Jul 11, 2011 10:58 AM EDT up reply actions
jinx
i swear GOD’s comment hadn’t appeared when i was typing……(the reference about .5% of cap)
by CapsDegenerate on Jul 11, 2011 11:01 AM EDT up reply actions
Do you really want to send a guy to your AHL affiliate (the one where your young kids learn from the veterans) that isn’t happy with the organization? That’s why Sheldon Souray was playing in Hershey. Edmonton didn’t want him around their kids, knowing he was pissed at the organization.
For Souray, and Wade Redden, at least they were legit NHLers who were playing in the minors because they had huge salaries. If you’re a marginal NHLer making not much more than league minimum, getting buried in the minors can be the death blow to any hopes you have of a career in the bigs.
I am a hockey fan first, and a Caps fan second.
by iwearstripes on Jul 11, 2011 11:36 AM EDT up reply actions
I did have a few nits to pick with that article:
Carlson gave up a lot of goals and had the most mistakes on the team, which is expected when you have a rookie who led the team in ice-time.
Well, yeah, he technically lead the team in GA and errors, but he was essentially on par with Hannan’s numbers (and gave up fewer goals) in harder minutes. In fact, Alzner was the only guy on the team with a lower GA/60 number. Maybe Alzner held Carlson afloat there, but it’s not like Carlson was drowning in those minutes, either. Not the way Erskine or Sloan, or even Tom fuckin’ Poti. Damn if these numbers confirm the shit out the “saw him bad” impression of Poti that a lot of folks have.
I’d be really interested to see these numbers done for scoring chances (although that would be a monumental undertaking), because that would help wash out some of the randomness associated with just using goals, if only from having a better sample.
"Essentially, all models are wrong, but some are useful" George E.P. Box
by Knee high to a duck on Jul 11, 2011 10:56 AM EDT up reply actions
Also, not all scoring chances are created the same. Personally, I’m not too upset if Carlson or Green makes a mistake against another team’s 4th line, because the odds of that mistake ending up in the net are minuscule. On the other hand, you don’t want to do the same thing against the other team’s 1st line.
Armareddon.
True story. Which makes Alzner’s numbers even more impressive, given that he was up against top competition all year.
"Essentially, all models are wrong, but some are useful" George E.P. Box
by Knee high to a duck on Jul 11, 2011 11:00 AM EDT up reply actions
whatever his contract is I hope it’s for a long ass time. The guy’s learning curve is parabolic. Or whatever, his advancement has been so great that it’s going back in time and making him a better player.
Comrades, leave me here a little, while as yet 't is early morn:
Leave me here, and when you want me, sound upon the bugle-horn
Agree with you on sample size and chances big time.
Also…an accurate assessment of the “failure chain” requires a couple of things. One, a sophisticated and nuanced grasp of the game itself. I’m not saying that the author doesn’t have this; for all I know, he might. But he might not, either.
The second is a camera view that shows where everyone on the ice is in the flow of play leading up to the goal. Which I’m pretty sure doesn’t exist at all.
So while I applaud the effort, and have no specific bone to pick with the conclusions, I’m thinking that the info is necessarily incomplete.
Still, I do think the info gives us data we didn’t have before, which is always good.
Patron saint of quality footwear.
I think the failure chain is going to be particularly difficult with forwards. Lots of their mistakes are going to come in the offensive zone or on the backcheck out of camera view.
I also think you need to consider the degree of the mistake. Lots of plays have more than one error, and it’s hard to untangle fault in those situations. Take the first goal of game 3 v. TBL. Laich turns the puck over in the neutral zone, Green plays the two-on-one like he’s TSlo, Neuvirth doesn’t exactly come up looking great on a five hole shot. Who is to blame? I think Neuvirth had the least egregious error, but between Laich and Green both looked dreadful. Do you give Laich a higher degree of blame because without his error you never have Green in a vulnerable two-on-one position? Or is Laich’s error immaterial with respect to Green’s error? The answers are probably going to differ depending on what you are trying to show. If you just want to code who made mistakes on the play then they are unrelated, but as you try to move closer to defining “blame values” on players for each goal you are going to have to consider the relative blameworthiness of each player, last chance doctrine, contributory negligence, and the like.
Obviously, this is all speculation.
I think those are all terrific points. Trying to assess relative blameworthiness ups the complication factor by a lot. I don’t think I could do it well, and I feel like I know enough about the game to have mostly informed opinions.
I definitely think on the play in question that Neuvy gets a smaller down mark than Laich and Green, but he deserves one.
Patron saint of quality footwear.
Green and Laich would be charged with errors.
"My Sports Blog":http://myfriendcorey.wordpress.com
by MyFriendCorey on Jul 11, 2011 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions
this is, to me, the answer. Just count mistakes. If you end up with more or less than 1 mistake per goal, that’s fine.
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Jul 11, 2011 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Whoever contributed to the goal against are the ones who got charged with errors and there were a good few times where more than one player was responsible for it. I only did defensemen for this exercise, though.
"My Sports Blog":http://myfriendcorey.wordpress.com
by MyFriendCorey on Jul 11, 2011 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions
If you’re a Lightning fan, this quote should pretty well sum up your feelings after Vokoun signed with the Caps. The real upside is that we won’t have to listen to Feinstein all year saying the Caps need a veteran goalie.
Told McPhee should have bought a lottery ticket that day, Lightning GM Steve Yzerman said, “He didn’t need to. He already won the lottery.”
by b.orr4 on Jul 11, 2011 9:05 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Japers' Rink people going to Fan Day
I’ve started a roll call in the OTOT thread to find out who among us are going to the scrimmage on Fan Day this Saturday. Last year, several of us managed to sit together and meet irl and had a really good time.
There's always more to learn about Hockey.
So far, the count on the OTOT thread is 20 people going to the scrimmage. We’ll try to sit by the first penalty box you come to as you enter the rink to watch the game.
There's always more to learn about Hockey.
O sweet jeebus
The rink has had plenty of traffic and good discussion lately thanks to GMGM….Did we really need a Red Rockers link in Clips?
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No like-y? No read-y.
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by J.P. on Jul 11, 2011 9:29 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Oh, Im not reading…Im looking at pics
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Why are folks so up in arms about the Red Rockers? Sure they’re not necessary, but they are pleasant enough people who are there to hand out free swag and they cheer for the good guys in red… I can live with that…
Winnipeg? Winnipeg??? Oy! (And now it's official...)
by MikeL-Pivonka on Jul 11, 2011 10:58 AM EDT up reply actions
Nipping this in the bud.
We’re not going down this road today.
Warnings commence from this point onward.
"Essentially, all models are wrong, but some are useful" George E.P. Box
by Knee high to a duck on Jul 11, 2011 10:59 AM EDT up reply actions
Consider the bud nipped. :)
Winnipeg? Winnipeg??? Oy! (And now it's official...)
by MikeL-Pivonka on Jul 11, 2011 11:01 AM EDT up reply actions
I believe nipping was part of the problem in the first place.
/Ok, now I’ll behave. I literally could not resist myself./
Armareddon.
by D'ohboy on Jul 11, 2011 11:06 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Hence my original comment…it is in clips tho ;)
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It is. And I think it’s fair game if you’re talking about the substance of the post that’s in Clips. But if it starts going far afield, expect it to be moderated.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
Right – it’s one thing to discuss the content of the article, it’s another thing to get far afield about people’s personal approval of the Red Rockers.
"Essentially, all models are wrong, but some are useful" George E.P. Box
by Knee high to a duck on Jul 11, 2011 11:41 AM EDT up reply actions
Given the content of the article, is it even possible to talk about without going down that road? I’m categorically not trying to raise the discussion, but the whole article is about the depth of talents/roles required of the Red Rockers. Learning about the process and how much is expected isn’t going to change anyone’s mind if you already think they are pandering and stupid. It’s just (possibly) more rigorous and challenging pandering.
Obviously, this is all speculation.
Eh, this is probably the last time I’ll link to anything Rockers-related. I was just trying to give the boys some love for actually doing some legwork on a Caps-related topic, but it’s obviously not worth the ensuing fuster-cluck.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
I actually found the article interesting, in that the team clearly sees the RRs as less of a dance/cheer squad, and more as sort of an outgoing team of customer service ambassadors.
Armareddon.
Hey, I agree. But if it’s just going to devolve into “Boobies vs. No Boobies” without people giving a toss about the substance, it’s not worth it.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
It’s entirely also possible that I’m overly sensitive on the potential for another hockey-content-free flamewar.
"Essentially, all models are wrong, but some are useful" George E.P. Box
by Knee high to a duck on Jul 11, 2011 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Nothing in today’s comments on the article are untoward.
by Berube Doobie Doo on Jul 11, 2011 5:15 PM EDT up reply actions
I’ve dropped more than enough napalm in those fuster-clucks, but I did enjoy reading the article, so thanks for linking it. PBs always does some solid, if occasionally off-beat, work.
Caps fans aren’t on the ledge; they’ve already jumped, and are merely trying to drag others into a mournful descent with them..--Stienz
Pledge Drive 2010-2011: SO KIDS CAN!! Help build a playground
Are you saying we should do a non discussion poll on whether or not the article changed your opinion on the RR?
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If it degenerates into flame-war territory, I would agree with you…but if there’s a link in the clips, it’s got to be fair territory for commentary, right?
Patron saint of quality footwear.
...
This line here, from the story, could create said flame-war
Judging from the games and Caps events we’ve been to (crashed), the Rockers – now in their fourth season – have endeared themselves to the fans. OK, maybe a little more with a certain set of guys than others (as puzzling as this is to us), but watching little kids at Verizon decked out in red get all excited at the chance of meeting a real Rocker – well, we get why Mike Wurman, director of game entertainment and TV production for the Capitals, likes to call the squad "our ambassadors."
which is why I thought putting it in clips was begging for a RinkRiot
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The whole article is about their role and talents, which is, if not the crux of the debate, extremely closely related. Tread lightly.
Obviously, this is all speculation.
Yea, I dont want to talk about the RR since I am form the no harm no foul crowd, I really wanted to talk more with the figure heads on why we would poke the bear
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form = from
Check out a new social network, Hockey Connect, a place for coaches, players, family and fans to share strategies and experiences.
I understand it’s a potentially divisive topic. I recall the brouhaha.
Anyway, I have zero feelings one way or the other regarding the Red Rockers, so I’m done with this topic.
Patron saint of quality footwear.
Just wish they had better arms.
The only time I’ve caught a freebie it was Slap Shot doing the throwing.
"When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro"
They could stand to run up a few extra stairs to the nosebleeds, too, although I don’t care all that much about what they’re giving away.
Don’t try to figure Sasha out. Just ride the wave.
It begins.
ikeastan
First one on the ice… Gabby! Haha
You perhaps knew me better as "Your Nation's Capital." Same great commentary, now with 100% more transparency!
Gabby! Gabby! Hey!
Ok, I’ll stop channelling Joey Ramone…
Winnipeg? Winnipeg??? Oy! (And now it's official...)
by MikeL-Pivonka on Jul 11, 2011 10:58 AM EDT up reply actions
happy start of summer hockey (if only for a week), everyone! Monday feels a little brighter knowing that there’s hockey going on.
Caps fans aren’t on the ledge; they’ve already jumped, and are merely trying to drag others into a mournful descent with them..--Stienz
Pledge Drive 2010-2011: SO KIDS CAN!! Help build a playground
In yesterday’s thread, vtcapsfan99 posted some of Fedor’s Semin trades, including this one:
Semin+Alzner for Kostitsyn+Weber+1st? I’d add Desharnais.
Just wondering, is that to the Habs for Andrei and Yannick, or the Preds for Sergei and Shea? Doesn’t really matter, but I think it’s funny.
Founding member of the "Bring Silent Jay McClement to Washington" club.
by Flash in the Pan on Jul 11, 2011 9:55 AM EDT reply actions
Habs if he says add Desharnais….although Id think hard about it if it were Preds…if only to save Ovis wrist from getting unnecessarily obliterated during the preseason
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Oh, I assumed that was some random prospect of ours.
Founding member of the "Bring Silent Jay McClement to Washington" club.
by Flash in the Pan on Jul 11, 2011 10:15 AM EDT up reply actions
If that’s Shea Weber, I’d do the trade, only if we were guaranteed he would sign a contract with us since he’s a a RFA.
yeah, no brainer even if it means losing Semin. Of course, that’s if Weber is willing to sign. We could see about moving Green for a quality forward then with that amount of blueline depth.
Comrades, leave me here a little, while as yet 't is early morn:
Leave me here, and when you want me, sound upon the bugle-horn
There’s only one Weber I’m interested in, and it’s not the traffic cone from Team Switzerland.
Obviously, this is all speculation.
by Rob Parker on Jul 11, 2011 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
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Comrades, leave me here a little, while as yet 't is early morn:
Leave me here, and when you want me, sound upon the bugle-horn
anybody else having problems linking to Tweet Tweeters page? – getting “Web Site cannot be found” message
I'll never put on a life jacket again
You using IE? I know it has problems in that browser…
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
Aye. Me too. And same problem.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
Here’s another way to get at the list itself – http://twitter.com/list/JapersRink/tweet-tweeters
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
Totally random fact (assuming correct) from the Boston Globe:
Lots of bargains still available on the market, including Chris Clark. Interesting note: Clark scored hat tricks on Roberto Luongo and Tim Thomas, two of the three Vezina Trophy finalists. Never mind that they took place in 2005-06 and 2006-07, respectively .
Those were the days…. :)
Don’t try to figure Sasha out. Just ride the wave.
He had help back then…Zubrus was a heck of a playmaker… oh and there was this other guy on his line back then too. Wonder what happened to him?
Winnipeg? Winnipeg??? Oy! (And now it's official...)
by MikeL-Pivonka on Jul 11, 2011 11:00 AM EDT up reply actions
Stephen Whyno Not packed crowd for first morning session of #Caps development camp at Kettler. Sparse at best.
Thought it would be packed.
Kids have summer camps. Grownups have jobs. I’m not terribly surprised. These are mostly no-names, after all.
Don’t try to figure Sasha out. Just ride the wave.
and a lot of us used some vacation time to make 4th of July an extra long weekend. harder to take additional time off.
I will be there for Wednesday’s scrimmage, though.
Caps fans aren’t on the ledge; they’ve already jumped, and are merely trying to drag others into a mournful descent with them..--Stienz
Pledge Drive 2010-2011: SO KIDS CAN!! Help build a playground
It was a perfectly respectable weekday crowd for both sessions. I don’t know what Whyno was expecting. Saturday will be a zoo.
(Yes, I know about the avatar hounding - just pretend mine is invisible.)
My reaction attending regularly over the years was that it was emptier than the last couple of years on day 1. Note, this is not a complaint; after Monday and non-scrimmage does tend to be quieter before the Saturday insanity.
Originally found this thru BSH. HP takes a look at GVT +/- this off season. Caps looking good, fwiw.
http://www.hockeyprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=1013
Patron saint of quality footwear.
Separate but related….
Does anyone know where to find final GVT ratings for the year? I would normally just go through behindthenet (http://www.behindthenet.ca/2010/gvt.php?sort=3&mingp=&team=&pos=), but those stopped being updated at about game 68.
Does anyone know where to find final GVT ratings for the year?
They used to have it public on Google Docs. I can’t find the link right now, but they did have it up there.
"Shots aren't the important thing. Scoring chances are way more important than shots." - Bruce Boudreau
See my work on WaPo's Capitals Insider, ESPN Insider and Russian Machine Never Breaks (RMNB) Insider. I also log the Caps scoring chances. The 2010-11 summary spreadsheet is posted on Google Docs.
Follow me on Twitter @ngreenberg
By the way, this whole Poti situation is starting to remind me of the New Jersey Devils’ cap situation from last year. After signing Kovalchuk, Volchenkov, and Tallinder, plus trading for Arnott, the Devils were significantly over the cap. They managed to solve this issue when Bryce Salvador (a decent defenseman with a cap hit only 25k more than Poti’s) went down to a concussion after Lou Lamoriello hit him with a crowbar after James Van Riemsdyk hit him in a preseason game.
Tortorella: Can I get another question? I went in here in a pretty good mood today, too.
Larry Brooks: So did I.
Tortorella: Well, you obviously f***ed that up, didn't you?
I’m not too concerned. Well, if Alzner doesn’t get signed I’m going to burn down the Verizon Center at least. I already have kindling (playoff towel from the past two seasons soaked in my tears, which are oddly enough flammable)
Comrades, leave me here a little, while as yet 't is early morn:
Leave me here, and when you want me, sound upon the bugle-horn
If you’re Neuvirth, you can’t be liking this (per Katie):
When asked if Vokoun and Michal Neuvirth would have a genuine compeition for the top spot in Washington, though, Boudreau said the 35-year-old Czech’s experience all but pencils him into that role at this stage.
"We’re always going to play who we think is the best," Boudreau said. "But if you’re looking at a guy that’s had the experience and done everything and if they’re a No. 1 goalie… You’ve got to give Vokoun the respect that he’s coming in and he’s going to be the No. 1 guy. We’ll see where it goes from there."
I can’t imagine Neuvy takes offense to that. He understands that no one is going to hand him anything and that he has to earn his ice time – exactly as it would’ve been if the guy he was sharing the cage with was named Vokoun, Varlamov or Holtby.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
Except that it sounds like Boudreau just handed the #1 job to Vokoun. Don’t disagree, though, that Neuvy has to understand that Vokoun’s probably going to be the #1. just noting that I doubt he’s going to like it.
“We’re always going to play who we think is the best,” Boudreau said.
Full stop. Everything after that is fluff.
Besides, what does “#1 goalie” mean in October?
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
According to the PD interview with Varly, the first half starter is dispositive.
Obviously, this is all speculation.
What a turd that interview was…
Did you have a deal with SKA?
I can’t say.
OK, moving right along since I won’t follow-up on that…
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
Didn’t one of the Russian journo’s tweet that Varly was going to have something to say about Holtby or something?
Those two articles, as you noted, left a lot unanswered.
Patron saint of quality footwear.
Yeah, I’m still waiting for the juicy tidbit about Holtby from Varly.
"Hockey is my life, wine is my passion." -- Igor Larionov
by Scott in Shaw on Jul 11, 2011 4:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Sorry, that’s overly harsh on my part. I’d like to take that back. I do think there was ample opportunity to ask follow-up questions that would have shed an enormous amount of light on the situation, though. Apologies for the word choice.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
I wonder how unhappy Varly might be with his Russian agent, but still needs the agent for sponsorship and non-hockey contract deals back there. Sure you can always hire another agent, but is my suspicion that in Russia, sometimes agent blackballs you.
In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.
What makes you suspect that agents in Russia would blackball players That’s asinine…agents (regardless of nationality) work for their players best interest or they get fired. I’ll continue beating the dead horse…until Varlamov fires his Russian agent for the nationalistic nonsense I’ll continue to believe he was acting on behalf of Varlamov’s request.
by Yoshietree on Jul 11, 2011 11:43 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I wonder what Theodore would say…the first half starter means you’ll start the first 3-4 periods of the playoffs?
That depends if he blacked out after vomiting all over the ice 2 straight years.
Everything ends badly...otherwise it wouldn't end.
by Davethecapsfan on Jul 11, 2011 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, pretty much. That’s a lot of my problem with how Varly (allegedly) handled this whole situation. He thought he wasn’t given a fair shake this year, but he doesn’t see how maybe Theo thought he didn’t get a fair shake the prior two years.
Obviously, this is all speculation.
by Rob Parker on Jul 11, 2011 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
They both got fair shakes really…although I would have liked to see Varly get a game or 2 against Tampa. The only time I would have wanted to see Theo again either year was Game 7 against Pens.
Everything ends badly...otherwise it wouldn't end.
by Davethecapsfan on Jul 11, 2011 3:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Couldn’t disagree more – Theo should’ve started G4 against PIT, or at the very least one of the other two (G3 or G5) in that three-in-four stretch. Varly was spent.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
I could buy that, I just really thought he should start one game of the back to back. If Varly was spent before that, he definitely shouldn’t have started both ends of that. If memory serves that stretch you bring up included both of our OT losses in the series (G3 + G5).
Everything ends badly...otherwise it wouldn't end.
by Davethecapsfan on Jul 11, 2011 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Truthfully, I think they would both have a semi-legitimate gripe (assuming Theo had one, probably safe to assume). The only constant is that if you cost the Caps a game in the playoffs (and I don’t think Neuvy did that this year), you’re out. Well, that, and that Varly could never stay healthy enough to make himself the #1 going into the playoffs.
Don’t recall Neuvy being the goalie saying “Name me #1 or I walk.”
Boss: "How's that task coming?" Alz: "Eh, it's trending Sasha." Boss: "What?" Alz: "..."
by Alz Well That Ends Well on Jul 11, 2011 2:01 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
If you believe Slava Malamud, Varly never made this demand. Slava tweeted yesterday
Two things about Varly that must be clear to anyone by now: 1. It was NOT about $, 2. He never demanded any guarantees. Period.
I am apparently not smart enough to figure out how to link directly to a specific tweet, but his feed is here http://twitter.com/#!/SlavaMalamud
Because now I can justify browsing and commenting during the work day with the argument that I am promoting my business.
by Sombrero Guy on Jul 11, 2011 4:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Perhaps Varly told his agents that’s what he wanted, and the agents made the demand, but Varly didn’t.
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Jul 11, 2011 4:41 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Okay, reading WAY between the lines here:
Per varly’s comments, / Slavas interpretation of varly’s thoughts, the decision was not about:
Money
Guarantees
George McPhee
Ted (maybe a little, but whatevs)
Caps Fans
Never mentioned in any article/tweet/what have you:
Bruce Boudreau.
Would a different coach have made a difference?
You perhaps knew me better as "Your Nation's Capital." Same great commentary, now with 100% more transparency!
Interesting observation. I do think it’s possible that BB played into it, along with the competition from Neuvy/Holtby (not on a “I need a guarantee” level, just that his odds are undeniably lower when competing with two other strong G prospects).
And the other option, perhaps, is contract term. I think Varly has said he wanted three years to go up to Sochi, but apologies if that has been debunked or if the Caps were willing to go to three.
I have difficulty believing much of what has been said by Varly, his people, since the trade. So much of it comes across as an attempt to improve (re-write) the narrative.
(Yes, I know about the avatar hounding - just pretend mine is invisible.)
Trudat, but questions about BB’s goalie management are just as fair — and they long predate anything Varlamov said or signed. (My good friend Olaf has details).
The definition of “hot hand” can change on successive nights from ‘hand that won’ to ‘hand that looked really sharp in losing’ to ‘hand that only gave up one pathetic beachball of a goal’.
BB’s guys think he’s a great handler. Unfortunately, most of the roster aint BB’s guys.
....when the truth is if they knew anything about the game, they'd be in it.
--GMGM
Quick OT instruction to Sombrero Guy: Under the tweet, there is a time reference (like “One hour ago” or “3 days ago”). If you click on that, the individual tweet will open in a different window. You can then copy the link address.
"I remembered when he said that and I kind of looked at him during the warm up and told myself that I got to shut these guys out tonight." - Michal Neuvirth, 02.06.11.
I’m not the least bit surprised that BB’s penciled in Vokoun as number one going into camp. Two years ago, Bruce was saying that Theo’s experience made him the number 1 goalie going into training camp. Mind you, in this was August 2009, after Bruce had benched him in the playoffs. TEB’s headline was Jose Theodore starts as ‘Number One Guy’ in Washington Capitals Net.
“Right now José is the number one guy and the other two young men [Varlamov and fellow prospect Michal Neuvirth] have got to come in and play the way they did last year and try to push him out,” Boudreau said. “José won 32 games for us last year, and like the year before when Cristobal Huet got hot down the stretch, Varly came in and did a great job where we just couldn’t take him out.”
“But that was 13 games,” Boudreau added. “It doesn’t make up for 12 years of experience. I’ve seen an awful lot of goalies come in at a young age and go into a slump for a year or two. I think José has earned and deserves the right [to be] the number one guy.”
Theo’s reaction was that it’s a title, but you have to earn it on the ice. From Vokoun’s comments, I’d guess he’d say the same thing. And I’d guess that Neuvirth knows that things can change in net an a moment’s notice.
Quand on change d'attitude ça change tout
Formatting fail…forgot to preview and reply to borr
Except that it sounds like Boudreau just handed the #1 job to Vokoun. Don’t disagree, though, that Neuvy has to understand that Vokoun’s probably going to be the #1. just noting that I doubt he’s going to like it.
by b.orr4
The TEB article quote is
"Right now José is the number one guy and the other two young men [Varlamov and fellow prospect Michal Neuvirth] have got to come in and play the way they did last year and try to push him out," Boudreau said. "José won 32 games for us last year, and like the year before when Cristobal Huet got hot down the stretch, Varly came in and did a great job where we just couldn’t take him out."
"But that was 13 games," Boudreau added. "It doesn’t make up for 12 years of experience. I’ve seen an awful lot of goalies come in at a young age and go into a slump for a year or two. I think José has earned and deserves the right [to be] the number one guy."
Quand on change d'attitude ça change tout
After listening to GMGM's press conference. . .
I think Eakin enters training camp with an inside track to making the team. Obviously, he’s got to perform, but GMGM’s comments as to having another roster spot to fill combined with Eakin’s tiny cap hit should give him advantages over guys like Sjogren, Hanson or Beagle.
Moreover, I think the organization loves the kid.
In other words, I’d be more surprised if Eakin weren’t with the team on opening night than I would be if he were.
Armareddon.
I agree…I went to last year training camp and to me the only guy that stood out was Eakin, much more than Johansson … not that I’m know much about hockey.
What doesnt kill you makes you stronger.
by BetterOffWith28 on Jul 11, 2011 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions
When he said they have one more slot to fill, do you think that means King stays as the nacho eater? If they get rid of King, that should mean two slots are available (carrying 13 Fs). I guess I can see that — one of Eakin, Sjogren, Hanson or Beagle makes the team and the rest play full time in Hershey, with King there as filler. If there’s a real injury, re-call someone and King goes back to the press box.
The other wild card is whether Beagle is subject to waivers this year. It looks to me like he is, but I’m not sure how old he was when he signed his first contract.
by Dirk Dangler on Jul 11, 2011 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Honestly, I’d rather he have 60+ games of top 6 minutes in Hershey and get his 8-10 games in spots, but it’s hard to argue the math on the cap.
My question is whether he slots as a wing or as a pivot up here. It might not matter.
Some people don't want to be informed. They want to find out that what they already believe in is right. --Warren Peace
Based on last year and the Mackan situation, D’ohboy should be in agreement with you.
I have a hard time seeing him play C in the NHL. I think he could be a quality W, though. Speed, work ethic, and a good shot. He should get his chances.
Obviously, this is all speculation.
If he comes in as winger, I’m on board. Marjo had trial by fire and probably could have spent some time in Hershey. I’m not betting on another forward to do the same unless they’re Sjogren or mystery SM-liiga/SEL player, someone who has played at a closer to NHL level than Eakin.
Comrades, leave me here a little, while as yet 't is early morn:
Leave me here, and when you want me, sound upon the bugle-horn
Yeah, I don’t think there’s any question that the wing could be where he maxes out offensively. But, if he’s as much of a pain in the ass to play against (or if the reputation he has developed to date is accurate), he could be much more useful as a C in our lineup, which is really bereft of a true shutdown center at the moment.
Some people don't want to be informed. They want to find out that what they already believe in is right. --Warren Peace
Pain in the ass <> true shutdown C. I don’t think he’ll ever have what it takes to be a true shutdown C. You can be a contributing pain in the ass on the W, and it seems like the biggest pains are all Ws. If he is going to go that route (which I personally highly doubt), it’s probably better to have him on the W so you aren’t losing a PK C to any silly PIMs.
Obviously, this is all speculation.
I didn’t mean to conjure ‘pest’ (like Burrows/Avery) with ‘pain in the ass.’ I meant a guy who covers you like a glove because he’s faster than you and plays in your face. A guy who draws more PIM’s than he takes. Of course, that’s plenty useful on the wing…
Just curious, but what is it that makes you think he doesn’t have a shutdown pivot role in his future?
Some people don't want to be informed. They want to find out that what they already believe in is right. --Warren Peace
I don’t think he’ll physically ever be able to handle NHL top line Fs in a shutdown capacity. How many 5’10" shutdown Cs are there? Maybe Stephen Weiss (listed 5’11") but I think it’s asking a lot of him.
Obviously, this is all speculation.
East is a little bit more smaller up the middle now that the Flyers imploded to bring in Bryz but I’d say it would be tough unless Eakin can put on a serious amount of muscle which will end up killing his biggest asset. You really need to be about Kesler sized or have incredibly hand-eye like Datsyuk and the former is impossible and the latter improbable.
Comrades, leave me here a little, while as yet 't is early morn:
Leave me here, and when you want me, sound upon the bugle-horn
I’m not sure size is really the end-all, be-all. Right now, Eakin’s size will probably hinder him a bit because he’s just generally tiny and physically immature. If he can fill out his frame with a little muscle, he’ll probably be able to hold his own. Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Giroux, Saku Koivu, Plekanec, Weiss, Oshie, Duchene, Mike Richards, Brad Richards – they’re all in the same size range as Eakin and none of them are completely overmatched by the likes of Malkin, the Staals, etc.
Armareddon.
Yeah, and aside from Weiss and maybe Plekanec you didn’t really name a true shutdown C. There is also a ton of incredible talent on that list. Oddly enough, I don’t see Talbot included. I don’t think Eakin is going to be a defensive liability, but I don’t think he’ll make his NHL living as a defensive ace either. He’s going to have to score some to justify his position. And in any event, he’s probably an NHL W, so that even further differentiates him from that group.
Obviously, this is all speculation.
Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Giroux, Mike Richards, Saku Koivu. . . None of them qualify as quality defensive/two-way centers in your book?
Armareddon.
Shutdown versus two-way?
Comrades, leave me here a little, while as yet 't is early morn:
Leave me here, and when you want me, sound upon the bugle-horn
Every one of those guys would be in the NHL if they played mediocre D, with the possible exception of Koivu (though he would have had an NHL career in his prime).
I don’t consider those guys “defensive shutdown guys.” I consider them elite studs (again, minus Koivu). If you want to put Eakin in that class, then fine. I’d be ecstatic. I’m also not holding my breath. And if he is that good, he’ll be a great 2C, not a shutdown D. Maybe we’re back to semantics.
Obviously, this is all speculation.
Probably. I’m just saying that a lack of size never prevented Mike or Brad Richards from being good defensively.
Armareddon.
oh, no, definitely, but those guys have a skillset that Eakin most likely doesn’t. They were either higher draft picks or slipped through the cracks thanks to pre-lockout hockey madness.
Plus, all things considered I’m a little biased/sour on any Canadian “defensive forwards”. I just don’t see them having the same instincts that American or Euro players do on defense.
Comrades, leave me here a little, while as yet 't is early morn:
Leave me here, and when you want me, sound upon the bugle-horn
Totally overmatched by the likes of Steckel though.
Proud member of the Popsicle Division of the Cupcake Conference.
I don’t know what qualifies as “shut down,” but the two guys I see in Eakin’s future are Todd Marchant and Kris Draper. He’ll be a guy who normally scores about 15 goals, but he’ll probably have one crazy year where he gets 25 or something. Both of those guys had strong defensive reputations.
Armareddon.
Yep, you’ve mentioned both Marchant and Draper in past discussions, and I’d be very satisfied if Eakin turns out like either of them, Draper in particular. Interesting that KD only hit double digits in goals once before age 30, then hit it 5 times in a row. Great career for a ‘little’ guy…
Some people don't want to be informed. They want to find out that what they already believe in is right. --Warren Peace
Eakin hasn’t even played in the AHL though. Does he have the same NHL caliber skill sets as Jeff Skinner or Derek Stepan(both never played AHL hockey either though they had pretty darn good rookie years) opposed to Sjogren’s SEL experience?
Taking cap out of the picture of course.
I didn’t go to last year’s dev camp and probably won’t to this years so I haven’t seen Eakin play in real time and can only form opinion based on other’s opinions.
Bruce Boudreau when asked about Brooks Laich's return to the lineup, he said: "He just adds another dimension to our team. If it was puzzle, he just fits that thing. He completes us."
Brooks Laich completing everything from teams to tires and everything in between.
I’ll be shocked if time reveals that Eakin has the same skill level as Skinner.
Obviously, this is all speculation.
As much as I hope it happens, I don’t think Skinner winning the Calder was a fluke.
I have planned my grand attacks; I will stand behind their backs. With my brand new battle-axe, they will taste my wrath. They will hear me say as the pavement whirls, "I hate California girls."
by Steckel Me Elmo on Jul 11, 2011 4:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Expecting a Calder-winning performance from the kid is a bit much. I’d be fine if Eakin turns in a rookie year like Logan Couture.
In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.
I think even that’s a bit much. Depending on GP and TOI, I think something like 10G/15A would be excellent.
Armareddon.
Not a direct comparison to skinner’s offensive stats as much as he had other intangibles that got him into the NHL as an 18 yr old kid playing against men, was the point.
I mean would you play an 18yr old kid who had the hands of Gretzky but skated slower than Erksine, was a wet noodles against the boards, and every time he was checked had to suck some air like a certain former Redskin on the bench?
Skinner and Stepan were conditioned to already play against men, does Eakin have the same physicality to withstand, or knowledge to avoid, a Shea Weber check? Would he get man handled along the boards everytime..any 220+ lbs 6’3" NHLer comes along? Sjogren may be less skilled than Eakin but probably has a step on him in all of those due to his SEL experience is what I’m conjecturing to.
Bruce Boudreau when asked about Brooks Laich's return to the lineup, he said: "He just adds another dimension to our team. If it was puzzle, he just fits that thing. He completes us."
Brooks Laich completing everything from teams to tires and everything in between.
He was said to be physically ready by the draft, right?
Red Line Station and @RedArmyLine, featuring coverage of the most frustrating team in the NHL
To help with basic Timeonice functions.
If I reference a lot of stats, just assume I haven't seen anything to contradict or invalidate them.
by red army line on Jul 11, 2011 6:18 PM EDT up reply actions
So much for his ruinous meet in with social media
(> ^ .(> O .O)>
by Sentient Cheese on Jul 11, 2011 6:23 PM EDT up reply actions
So, one of the Hanson brothers’ kids is in Hershey now? Neat. Depth center with a moderately low chance of seeing time with the Caps?
Winterion Game Studios
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Yep. And all the WB/S Penguin fans are bent about the signing. Yay Bears.
You perhaps knew me better as "Your Nation's Capital." Same great commentary, now with 100% more transparency!
Koudys
I saw the first group on the ice today and was impressed by Patrick Koudys. Does anyone know what they have planned for him in the short and long-term?
They’ll probably let him play out his NCAA eligibility in RPI. Unless he wants to leave early, I think he stays.
Obviously, this is all speculation.
For the long-long-term, Ted might ask him to apply his civil engineering degree towards more materials science-based applications and work on new hockey helmets, pads, and sticks.
I’m rooting hard for the Engineer to make it into the NHL.
In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.
Can he improve the ice at Verizon?
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Jul 11, 2011 4:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Do they have senior thesis projects at RPI for their civil engineers? If so, let’s encourage Koudys to do that as his. I’m sure someone can slip that question in the next time they do a media sit down with the prospects.
In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.
For what it’s worth: other RPI Engineers in the Caps’ past include Adam Oates and Joe Juneau , though neither was a civil engineer, I believe. I think Juneau may have been an aeronautical engineer.
Tortorella: Can I get another question? I went in here in a pretty good mood today, too.
Larry Brooks: So did I.
Tortorella: Well, you obviously f***ed that up, didn't you?
So Hanson’s going to be utterly unwilling to shoot the puck?
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Jul 11, 2011 8:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Oates was a management major and Juneau was aeronautical engineering (earning his degree in three years). Don’t know about Pothier.
by Moonage Daydream on Jul 11, 2011 9:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Olie Interview! Olie in a Capital shirt…all is right with the world again.
Caps fans aren’t on the ledge; they’ve already jumped, and are merely trying to drag others into a mournful descent with them..--Stienz
Pledge Drive 2010-2011: SO KIDS CAN!! Help build a playground
by RedBirdie on Jul 11, 2011 2:59 PM EDT reply actions 3 recs
Group B is fairly unimpressive across the lot. Galiev and Orlov are easily the two best players, and I hope that Sjogren looks better against men than boys. He does seem to have some speed, though.
by DrinkingPartner on Jul 11, 2011 3:11 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Day 1
Here is a list of players I saw Day 1:
Group A: Carrier, Eakin, Grubauer, Haar, Koudys, Kugryshev, G. Mitchell, Soberg, Stefishen, Wey, M. Collins, Henley, Mullane, Civitarese, Frezee, Oligny, Eibler, Epp, Grant, Lockhart, and Cherniwchan
Group B: Anderson, Boyd, Burke, Flemming, Galiev, Herbert, Orlov, Sjogren, Wietecha, Follmer, Monpetit, Stollery, Allen, Syner, Tabisz, Boivin, A. Mitchell, Ross, Paquette, Burt, Edmonson, Schmit, Elliot, and Gervais-Chouinard
The only one I didn’t see was Stevenson.
(Yes, I know about the avatar hounding - just pretend mine is invisible.)
He had something happen to his nose. Not sure what, but he was seen in the mall with his nose packed.
You perhaps knew me better as "Your Nation's Capital." Same great commentary, now with 100% more transparency!
I saw a tweet that Sjogren lost a tooth, too.
That'll make your weagle wink!
The pants that bind us should be left behind us.
Yes, he left for lunch with his nose packed and yes he was out with group A but left early.
Frazee appeared to leave early in the skate at the end of practice, too.
I will post some more info. late tonight when I have time, if it is still unique info. when I look around. I did add a little more info. to the dev camp fanpost. Will add the details for the remaining FA invites later. I also added a couple more twitter accounts.
Group A Day 1 Lines: (note position not definite)
F:
Burgundy: Cherniwchan (86) Eakin (50) Kugryshev (93)
Green: Stefishen (96) Mullane (64) Henley (87)
Grey: Grant (92) Lockhart (73) G Mitchell (76)
White: M. Collins (77) Civitarese (79) Frazee (95)
8D: Carrier (65), Eibler (51), Epp (67), Haar (38), Koudys (44), Oligny (94), Stevenson (66), Wey (56)
2G: Grubauer (31) and Soberg (40)
Note: Last year except for injuries things stayed pretty consistent from day to day, but depending on what they see, injuries, etc., things can switch around. I will try to post Group B, too, but couldn’t stay for the entire session.
Gervais-Chouinard looked like he cramped up or tweeked something near the end of the workout. He was being worked on off ice during part of the skate and when he returned he looked like he was in pain. I hope it doesn’t prevent him from fully participating the rest of the week.
(Yes, I know about the avatar hounding - just pretend mine is invisible.)
Stas Galiev will be blogging on @WashCaps! Hooray!
You perhaps knew me better as "Your Nation's Capital." Same great commentary, now with 100% more transparency!
I just clicked on NHL.com and saw this article on Vokun that was just published.
This is a bit shocking to me. I mean, why is Boudreau saying this stuff when training camp hasn’t even started yet?
Is it really shocking? Or is it just acknowledging reality and what we all know already?
Obviously, this is all speculation.
Exactly, you don’t bring in a top 5 goalie in the league to be a backup, you just don’t.
Aim for the head baby Jesus
(I didn’t see this was discussed a little above, albeit from the WaPo.)
It’s a little shocking, if only because Vokun is coming in on a one-year deal, is likely not going to be with the Caps after this season (if he has a great year in DC, do you think he’s willing to sign a similar contract?), and is taking the place of a guy who was anointed as the number one when Varlamov was traded away.
It’s also a little shocking that it’s being said right now, three months to go before opening day.
Nobody was anointed anything.
If you, or anyone else, didn’t see Vokoun coming to DC and being the starter out of the gates then I don’t know what to tell you. You can tip toe around it all you want, but if BB tried to say “there will be an open competition and we’ll see who is better” people would have laughed also. Vokoun has been one of the best in the league for years now.
Obviously, this is all speculation.
He’s called Gabby for a reason. Saying things we’re all thinking but don’t really want the coach saying to the media since 2007.
by grapejoos on Jul 11, 2011 5:41 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
awesome day at D camp
never been to KCI before, so being where all the action is was quite fun.
I’m not a very good judge of what separates one prospect from another, but these are some thoughts I had from the bleachers
1) Burt had a good day today. If he keeps this up, and if this hasn’t happened already, he could find himself a spot in the organisation.
2) Orlov is pretty good, but he could use some time to adjust to North America. Not as much in hockey style, but in language and mentality.
3) Grubauer doesn’t give up on pucks.
Also saw Brouwer and Ollie doing interviews today, along with BB and GMGM
I think Orlov was doing fine with the things you mentioned. His time in Hershey last season helped. He knew what was expected of him on the ice, he was interacting far more with other players than last year, and I didn’t see anyone having to translate for him this time.
(Yes, I know about the avatar hounding - just pretend mine is invisible.)
Jonathan Huberdeau’s tweets from Panthers camp are hilarious.
Just came back from the 5 foot pool… It was too deep for @RGrimaldi23 … I’m glad that kid still alive though! #lifeguard
Poor Rocco.
That'll make your weagle wink!
The pants that bind us should be left behind us.
Bromance!
You perhaps knew me better as "Your Nation's Capital." Same great commentary, now with 100% more transparency!
Another.
We are watching a ping pong game and @RGrimaldi23 can’t even see , I need to lift him up ! #sad
That'll make your weagle wink!
The pants that bind us should be left behind us.
and now I truly regret 1st-for-Brouwer. Imagine the constant entertainment value of having that guy on one’s team!
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Jul 11, 2011 8:53 PM EDT up reply actions
I thought it was Dainault who was drafted in the spot we would have had (i.e. the one that Chicago got instead)
Rocking the Red for teams on the banks of the Potomac and at the Gateway Arch and Singing the Blues about Hockey.
Yup. but Knee High would have drafted Grimaldi
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Jul 11, 2011 10:08 PM EDT up reply actions
I didn’t think Kolcharov was still going to be available at that spot – he would have been a great pick at that spot, too.
"Essentially, all models are wrong, but some are useful" George E.P. Box
by Knee high to a duck on Jul 12, 2011 2:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Wish we are doing some rollercoaster … Oh no @RGrimaldi23 can’t come with us , I don’t know why?
That'll make your weagle wink!
The pants that bind us should be left behind us.
I saw group B today.
Sjogren look very much like a defensive oriented winger. Not a lot of speed or offense but it is early and he has adjusting to do. Assume he will shine more in scrimmages.
Galiev is very dynamic and will be interesting to see how physical he can play in scrimmages.
Orlov has a nice fat nasty streak. Love it.
Paquette better be one hell of a pest because there’s not much else there. Slow, Clumsy.
The biggest surprize was TJ Syner. Listed as 5’9" he looks to be shorter than GMGM but he has sweet hands and lightning speed. Skated right around D man twice during one on one drills. He almost pulled of a spinorama on another. Pretty ballsy to even try that one in a pro camp but I guess he’s pulling out all the stops trying to get noticed.
Check out some of my development camp photos.....
This might be my favorite…
Blogging the NHL (and the Caps) at The Breakaway Goal Blog and on Tumblr.
Twitter @breakawaygoal
Capitals Development Camp Coverage from The Breakaway Goal.
by thebreakawaygoal on Jul 11, 2011 9:35 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
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