Time for a Change
by J.P. on May 6, 2011 11:00 AM EDT
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PrintMaybe last April's devastating loss to the Canadiens was a fluke.
A bounce here, a call (or non-call) there, a shaky hand that never steadied and the Caps would have been on to Round 2 with little attention paid to how difficult it was to get there (much like this year).
That wasn't to be, of course, but after two consecutive seasons of progress (yes, even including the post-season) and a regular season that set franchise records left and right, the team and its coach deserved some benefit of the doubt that the Montreal series was an anomaly or, at the very least, a learning experience.
This spring, they demonstrated that it was neither. This spring, they demonstrated that this is a team that is fundamentally flawed, both literally and figuratively. This spring, they demonstrated that changes need to be made.
From the unnuanced 30,000-foot view, it would seem that the loss to the Lightning (and any struggles that came before it) can be explained in one of two ways: either Bruce Boudreau had the wrong message, or he had the right one and was incapable of getting his players to execute it. Whichever it was, it's ultimately a poor reflection upon the coach - being an effective communicator and motivator is every bit as important as being an effective tactician and strategist here.
Actually, there's a third possible explanation, and it's potentially the most troubling of all. Perhaps it's the players - specifically the core players, in whom so many years and dollars are invested - who are simply incapable of receiving the message, insistent on freelancing and system-allergic. Bruce Boudreau could be the most brilliant hockey general to stand behind an NHL bench since Scotty Bowman, but if his charges are unable to process and execute his orders, the results won't reflect that acumen. But there's no way of knowing if that's the case without seeing how these players - most of whom have only played for Boudreau at the NHL level, at least since there were expectations heaped upon the team - respond to another voice, and the sooner the organization finds out what it has in the way-more-than-$100 million it has invested, the better.
To be sure, Bruce Boudreau isn't "The Problem" with the Washington Capitals. When a franchise suffers soul-crushing defeats in three-consecutive springs (or four, depending upon how easily one's soul is crushed), there's plenty of blame to go around. But, as the old sports cliché goes, you can't fire all the players, so it's usually the guy calling the shots who takes the fall. And in this case, that would probably be fair. Bruce Boudreau is a good coach and a great guy. But, for whatever reason, he's never been able to consistently extract from this Caps team a whole which is greater than the sum of its parts when it's mattered most. It's time to find someone who can.
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Sad JP is sad…
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by J.P. on May 6, 2011 11:06 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
HOPE
Oh to be a caps fan…I’ve been a fan since the cup run, It’s been nothing but constant pain every spring. I watch other teams have parades while we continue to say what if? I’ve spent money, energy and emotion in this team but still have nothing to show for it. The only thing I can do is continue to hope that one day, it’ll be our turn. Let’s continue to hope caps fans that’s all we can do as a fan base. HOPE.
What say you, hockey gods???
Hope is the last refuge of the weak.
"Guy Boucher is outcoaching Bruce Boudreau so badly right now it’s sick." - Keith Jones
Nope.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9K30e9O3Nng
Everything ends badly...otherwise it wouldn't end.
by Davethecapsfan on May 6, 2011 5:39 PM EDT up reply actions
I’ve spent money, energy and emotion in this team but still have nothing to show for it.
I respectfully disagree. If you really had nothing to show for it, you’d move on. I think you have fun watching the hockey, sharing the highs and the lows with your friends, the quirky shit the players pull in their off hours, the genuinely good guys the team is comprised of, and the basic identity of the Washington Capitals as an organization.
There are memories and experiences and joy throughout the season – not just frustration and sadness. In fact, maybe the good times are even in sharper relief because it isn’t always good. They will win, someday. Just not this year. While that’s disappointing, it doesn’t erase the days, months and years of other great moments in Caps Hockey.
There's always more to learn about Hockey.
by WordsOnIce on May 6, 2011 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions 12 recs
My feelings exact. Hockey is such a wonderful sport that brings so many memories throughout the season. Good and bad. So do the Caps. This season had its ups and downs. It had a memorable and likeable cast of players. It ended in disappointment, yes. However, I am in no way sorry to be Caps fan.
Adversity in life teaches us to better treasure those moments that are precious to us.
"In the depths of winter, I learned there was in me an invincible summer" ~Albert Camus
No loss the team ever sustains is going to lessen the awesomeness that was the game against Pittsburg right after #Snovechkin. My ex and I drove down into the district for that game, damn near scraping the underside of my car to death. We’d been shoveling snow for hours, got the car clear, and got our butts down to Verizon and watched that rollercoaster game. Then we went home and shoveled snow for four more hours.
There's always more to learn about Hockey.
agreed.
Strange how when I first got my season tickets in 2003 and the Caps sucked, I ended the season happy. Now that they are perennial Cup favorites, we’re all destined to end the season disappointed the majority of the time. And REALLY disappointed/angry some of the time.
Ah life was simpler without expectations.
Great. Now I have to change my name to "Jaromir meet Alex".
by Chris meet Alex on May 6, 2011 1:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Expectations
Expectations= Premeditated resentments.
by CapsCupPlease! on May 6, 2011 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m happy. I have been since after Game 3. No good reason for it. But yeah, I had a good time this season. They played some fun hockey games. I’ll never forget the Winter Classic. Or watching Johansson, Neuvirth, Carlson, Alzner, etc. Ovi got a few “Ovi goals,” Semin took over for a month, Mike Green changed his game for the better (something he hasn’t gotten enough credit for).
They won the Eastern Conference. It wasn’t all bad.
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on May 6, 2011 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
Love you WordsOnIce, Love you ! I’m a happy fan, win or lose. I love this sport so freaking much and I love this team. Thing is I KNOW it’s meant for entertainment purposes so I don’t get all bent when they lose. I don’t like it, but my world doesn’t come a tumbling. I’ve have a great time at the games with my friends and husband. We are sth and went to 38 or the reg season games, all preseason games and all playoff games and we are both still smiling! I hope they win a Cup in my lifetime lol, I’ve been a fan for 25 years now. If not my life and love for the Caps will still have been way full!
Let’s Go Caps!!!!
sometimes I've believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast...
Awww shucks. :-)
Love you back. Best fanbase ever.
There's always more to learn about Hockey.
by WordsOnIce on May 6, 2011 6:20 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Historically, few dynasties and dominant teams emerged without prior (and devastating) failures. The Canadiens of the late ’70’s, Islanders, Oilers, Red Wings.
Take some solace in having a team with probably the most resources to work with: either to develop or trade.
The Caps will win in the near future. It’s only a matter of when. Once they find their groove in the playoffs, they will most likely be a consistently dominant team in the playoffs.
I remember watching you when you said Vietnam was unwinnable.
But yeah.
"My favorite fan base in D.C. Is United's. Period. The end." - Steinberg
by Bald Pollack on May 6, 2011 11:10 AM EDT up reply actions
3-1-1 record though.
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Just trying to capture the spirit of the thing...
by dcsportsfan1 on May 6, 2011 11:30 AM EDT up reply actions
While I believe Boudreau won’t be fired and want the guy to find a way to help this team turn the corner, I can’t argue with anything you’re saying here. And that bums me out.
Waiting for the day Al Iafrate calls and tells me he's my father.
Well said
I’m a Caps hockey fan, not a Caps hockey professional, and as a fan I want the team, this group of players, to win in the worst way. With all of the ups and downs this team experienced this year, concluding with the Tampa sweep, we all need consistency and that means leadership from the bench boss.
to win in the worst way.
I believe that would be our last two seasons.
Great. Now I have to change my name to "Jaromir meet Alex".
by Chris meet Alex on May 6, 2011 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
I had already decided that the best option is probably a change of course before I watched John Erskine body-slam Ryan Malone in game 7, but that event clinched it. George McPhee says his philosophy is that you change your coach when he’s lost the team and the message isn’t getting through anymore. Well, that event embodied to me the frustration, absence of discipline, and lack of composure the Caps displayed in the Tampa Bay series.
Good coaches teach their teams that they may not always win, but they can always play the right way. And that means sometimes losing the right way.
The Caps didn’t do that. As things got worse for them — as the breaks went against them — they shifted their game further and further from their system. Boudreau had no answers for the spiral. Nothing he said could make any difference to the team’s play. He’d lost the room. And when you lose the room, it’s time to go.
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on May 6, 2011 11:07 AM EDT reply actions 7 recs
You wish it was game 7, that would have meant we won a game or 3.
Of course I agree with you. Did you notice Locker’s comments saying the Caps should have been slashing wrists and taking guys out as the series was coming to a close? Not exactly losing the right way. Dale Hunter rub off on him?
Sigh.
After a four-game sweep, why bother?
Now, during game 7 versus the Pens? Different story.
"Guy Boucher is outcoaching Bruce Boudreau so badly right now it’s sick." - Keith Jones
I’d expect Boston or Philly to play Tampa far more physically than the Caps did. We’ll see if that pays off.
I’m not sure why the caps got away from the physical game they used against the Rangers. I thought Ovie’s strategy of hammering the D to wear them down was a good one. I barely saw a facewash against Tampa.
I thought the paper tigers Caps were too soft on the Rangers too often in that series, but too each their own.
I still see the problem (as I saw it vs MTL last season, and this regular season) as shot selection and one-dimensional performance in the offensive zone. That shows up on the PP as well. You don’t need a “hot” goalie to beat unsurprising shots that you can see, a goalie just needs to be playing NHL-caliber goaltending.
I would love to insert a soundbyte mix of every time Bruce blamed hot goaltending, over this past regular season alone.
You got no fear of the underdog, that's why you will not survive
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Haven’t read the article (will now). Even if you didn’t have the headline, the photo says enough.
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If they replace Bruce, who gets the call? What about Dale Hunter?
by Hammerfists of Doom on May 6, 2011 11:07 AM EDT reply actions
I’d think it’d have to be someone with at least some NHL success on the resume, but I could be wrong.
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Having a clear-cut “name” replacement shouldn’t be a requirement if the team does want to make a change. Bruce Boudreau was a nobody when he showed up and took home the Jack Adams Award 10 minutes after he arrived.
If they make a move, they just need to get the right guy – regardless of resume.
Waiting for the day Al Iafrate calls and tells me he's my father.
Well, of course.
But part of being the right guy is having the credibility to get through to these players, and NHL success goes a long way towards establishing that credibility. Otherwise, why should the next guy be believed and trusted any more than the current guy?
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*reply fail
Don’t you think it’s more related to personality than experience? I mean, experience is huge in the NHL level. But see Boucher, for example.
Not arguing here, just curious.
by brazilianbeast on May 6, 2011 11:18 AM EDT up reply actions
It has some to do with it, but Boucher also had several years of experience with the Canadian Youth Programs that complemented his years in the Q and A.
"My favorite fan base in D.C. Is United's. Period. The end." - Steinberg
by Bald Pollack on May 6, 2011 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions
Think they need someone with a different style. Someone with a Cup or deep Cup runs on his resume. Not sure such a person exists, but the “players’ coach” from the AHL has already been given a shot with these players – another one is not likely to get much different results.
Maybe I just repeated what JP said above.
Too soon for 32. He’s killing it in London with the youngsters and he should stay there. Asst coach in the NHL would be next for him if he moves at all.
"We know the answers have to come from this room," Hendricks said. "They're in here."
or a job in the AHL, etc., too I suppose….
"We know the answers have to come from this room," Hendricks said. "They're in here."
Or as an NHL assistant.
That being said, doesn’t he co-own the team? That would give him a much bigger reason to stay there versus taking an NHL job.
Tortorella: Can I get another question? I went in here in a pretty good mood today, too.
Larry Brooks: So did I.
Tortorella: Well, you obviously f***ed that up, didn't you?
Yeah he owns the team with a brother. He won’t leave for an assistant job, I don’t think. I doubt he’d go to the AHL either.
Sigh.
Bruce the player did not understand what it took to stick in the NHL, let alone the texture of the playoffs, or how to win in the playoffs (again, at the NHL Level)
Bruce the coach seemed to understand, but numbers are numbers. Losses are losses, and when to many folks it can be said that a team was out played, out schemed and out coached…..things need to happen.
I believe that in the event that he is replaced (which I am in the camp that he needs to go) the individual would have to have the perspective of the NHL Playoffs as either a player, or as a coach.
Oh. one more thing.
I do not want anything close to a ‘players’ coach.
my .02
Refs allow play to continue....
Actually, there’s a third possible explanation, and it’s potentially the most troubling of all. Perhaps it’s the players – specifically the core players, in whom so many years and dollars are invested – who are simply incapable of receiving the message, insistent on freelancing and system-allergic. Bruce Boudreau could be the most brilliant hockey general to stand behind an NHL bench since Scotty Bowman, but if his charges are unable to process and execute his orders, the results won’t reflect that acumen. But there’s no way of knowing if that’s the case without seeing how these players – most of whom have only played for Boudreau at the NHL level, at least since there were expectations heaped upon the team – respond to another voice, and the sooner the organization finds out what it has in the way-more-than-$100 million it has invested, the better.
That sort of says it all for me. Just look at the power play. It’s a perfect example of this very paragraph in terms of the problem and the potential solution. Talented players who can’t, for whatever reason, get it together, and obviously in need of a different voice.
The keyboard is mightier.
I consider the powerplay one of Boudreau’s ultimate points of failure. It went along real well for a couple years purely on talent, but when teams learned how to beat it, nothing changed. Ovechkin on the point, STILL. Feet in the mud, STILL. Passing between the points and taking a slapshot even with no chance if it passing one body, let alone 4, STILL.
Actually, there’s a third possible explanation, and it’s potentially the most troubling of all. Perhaps it’s the players – specifically the core players, in whom so many years and dollars are invested – who are simply incapable of receiving the message, insistent on freelancing and system-allergic.
Scary.
Yep. But a question that needs to be answered ASAP.
Step one, as mentioned, is bringing in a new coach.
A new voice & message to see if it has any new effect.
"By far the worst performers on the (Redskins) are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins
Who cares really, the window is closed for the core players.
Toews, Kane, Crosby, Malkin, soon Setoguchi, Couteour, all these guys have rings or will be playing for them soon and they are all 25 and under. The days of the BrindA’mours and Andrechuks hanging on, and leading their teams, to get that ring are over, the game is getting younger and younger every year. The Caps had a three year window to get it done, they failed.
I have no doubt that some of the guys get rings one day, but it won’t be with the Caps.
Disagree. I think that’s a result of a salary cap—the best teams will have cheap ELC guys contributing at a high level, but that doesn’t preclude veterans from being leaders. Chicago had plenty of older faces. So did Detroit, Pittsburgh, and the winner this year will, too. The Caps still haw guys like Kuznetsov and Eakin coming up, as long as they can stay cheap with some skaters and in goal this team will finish near the top of the East every year.
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by red army line on May 6, 2011 2:37 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
The big players on a lot of the remaining teams happen to have, y’know, big contracts. This year and next.
Detroit: Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Lidstrom, Franzen, etc.
Philly: Briere, Pronger, Richards, Carter.
Boston: Thomas, Horton, Bergeron, Chara.
San Jose: Thornton, Heatley, Boyle, Pavelski, Clowe.
Vancouver: Kesler, the Sedins, Luongo.
I’m not listing Nashville, of course, because they’re pretty much run on a shoestring budget, and they have nobody who is stepping up to perform in a huge way.
You don’t need to have a team full of entry-level guys outperforming their deals. You need to have guys on the team outperforming their deals. Whether that be guys like Ryane Clowe or Brad Marchand stepping up and putting points on the board for their teams doesn’t really matter.
In the Caps case, I think that the window closes as soon as we have a couple of bad drafts in a row and aren’t able to have guys produce on ELCs replacing more expensive players. Semin, for instance, could get replaced by Kuznetsov, to a net savings of five million or so in cap space. Dmitri Orlov, in a couple of years, could be a tremendously capable puck mover/powerplay specialist who could replace Poti or Wideman. Stan Galiev, in a few years, could have the wheels and playmaking skills to serve in a role similar to what Johansson did this year (i.e., third line center with some offensive upside).
Another way of putting it: Detroit has been a consistent Stanley Cup Contender for years, despite not having a jaw-dropping array of young talent coming in and outperforming their contracts.
Tortorella: Can I get another question? I went in here in a pretty good mood today, too.
Larry Brooks: So did I.
Tortorella: Well, you obviously f***ed that up, didn't you?
You don’t need to have a team full of entry-level guys outperforming their deals. You need to have guys on the team outperforming their deals
Exactly. I agree with most of what you said, but I disagree on Galiev’s potential. He’ll be the next Bouchard/Kugryshev, IMO.
I also think DET has hit their “couple of bad drafts in a row” and are about to hit serious problems. YLM has been saying it for a while and I pushed back, but Lidstrom’s days are numbered, as are Rafalski’s, and Ericsson just has not looked good and I don’t know if Kindle ever pans out. I think they need to start getting some quality fresh blood in, and fast.
Sigh.
That window has been open for fifteen years, though. If the Caps are capable of sustaining a run like that (and with four Cups to boot) I’ll take it.
Tortorella: Can I get another question? I went in here in a pretty good mood today, too.
Larry Brooks: So did I.
Tortorella: Well, you obviously f***ed that up, didn't you?
Also, I should add that Galiev is, from a number of people I’ve spoken to, a very good skater with great speed and good hands. He’s just skinny as hell right now. Guys like that can be pretty effective in the NHL if they can keep themselves from getting hurt.
I’m not sure he’ll pan out into anything special, but he does still have some upside.
Tortorella: Can I get another question? I went in here in a pretty good mood today, too.
Larry Brooks: So did I.
Tortorella: Well, you obviously f***ed that up, didn't you?
Couldn’t agree more with this article…and it’d be too risky to go through another regular season to find out, nope, it’s Boudreau’s fault. There’s nothing that Boudreau could do during the regular season that will lead us fans to believe that “this will be the year”. Only success in the playoffs at this point will do that. I say give another coach a chance at this roster, if it indeed is going to be left somewhat intact.
And Bruce might very well go elsewhere and find the success he couldn't instill in DC
It’s best for everyone to just move on to the next stage.
"By far the worst performers on the (Redskins) are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins
I’m on the side of making the change. However, I can think of one reason why making a change may be a bad idea. If you make a change, does it send a signal to those core players that it wasn’t their performance that was the problem, it was the coach?
By keeping BB on, you are effectively sending the message to the players in the room that its on them. Hopefully that message would be received if BB stays.
Just trying to capture the spirit of the thing...
Disagree, keeping BB means “whatever you’re doing is okay” when it’s clearly not. Since Bruce has apparently not lost the room, perhaps they’ll get the message that “Crap, the best coach ever and he got canned because we didn’t win for him.”
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Clearly the interpretation of BB being fired or kept will differ depending upon which player is hearing it. I’m guessing a guy like BL21 would take the “oh crap” position. Would some of the other guys view a firing as validation that it was not thier performance that was the problem, it was what they were being asked to do?
Just trying to capture the spirit of the thing...
by dcsportsfan1 on May 6, 2011 11:25 AM EDT up reply actions
By keeping BB on, you are effectively sending the message to the players in the room that its on them. Hopefully that message would be received if BB stays.
I think the opposite, actually. I don’t think keeping BB sends any other message than “the status quo is acceptable.” The blame must be shared, and the consequences as well – since you can’t fire the whole team, you bring consequences in other ways: their beloved coach loses his job, and they have a new coach who is willing to bench them for not being disciplined, not giving everything, etc. You coach poorly, you lose your job. You play poorly, you get less TOI.
by redpezrocket on May 6, 2011 11:19 AM EDT up reply actions
Perhaps. I think the players know that status quo is unacceptable. Whether they keep or fire BB, I hope GMGM sends the message to the core guys that his decision does not absolve them of their responsiblties to lead this team regardless of who’s behind the bench.
Just trying to capture the spirit of the thing...
by dcsportsfan1 on May 6, 2011 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions
Agreed – if anything, it ups the responsibilities on the players. Don’t you think someone like Brooks is going to be hurting inside knowing that the team let BB down and got the man fired? Of course, his return is an open question too…
Most of these guys have only ever had Bruce as a coach in the NHL. I think they are all attached to him in their own ways, so I think the core guys who have been there the last few years would feel more responsible than say, Hannan, who’s only been here half a season (I really hope he stays longer though).
by redpezrocket on May 6, 2011 11:34 AM EDT up reply actions
The blame must be shared, and the consequences as well
We were talking about this yesterday as well, but I think one of the Young Guns needs to be sent packing as well as the coach in order for the rest of the group to get the message. Clearly sending Flash packing for underperformance didn’t resonate.
I don’t think sending Flash off was any kind of message. Flash was underperforming, but that wasn’t because Flash was a bad player. It was because Flash didn’t fit the roster in the way we needed him to. He went to Colorado and immediately put up a 8 goals and 13 assists in the 22 games he played there. Obviously, he’s not a bad player.
If
anyof the Young Guns leave, it’s Green or Semin, but neither of them should be hung out to dry along with the coach as some kind of message. If either of them or both of them are traded, it will be because GMGM thinks he’ll get a good return.
So can we use this thread to nominate potential new coaches? I have one: Craig MacTavish.
I know a lot of folks have come out against him, but I think MacT fits this team’s big issues for a few reasons:
1) He wrung everything he could out of a bunch of Edmonton teams that were held together with shoestring and bubblegum, and had them in the playoff race every year. And then, one time he managed to get them in, they went to the Finals on the back of great goaltending and good coaching. It would be interesting to see what he could do with a talented squad.
2) While his NHL coaching record doesn’t have a whole lot of playoff experience on it, he did win the Cup four times as a player. That’s going to carry some gravitas in the room when it comes to playoff time.
3) He’s got some experience with the “enigma” factor, having coached both Dustin Penner and Ales Hemsky.
I can’t begin to think of anyone else who might be available and has some “NHL success” on his resume. Thoughts?
3)
Tortorella: Can I get another question? I went in here in a pretty good mood today, too.
Larry Brooks: So did I.
Tortorella: Well, you obviously f***ed that up, didn't you?
The Vancouver Sun reported today that MacTavish interviewed for the Minnesota Wild. Not sure how that will pan out, though.
by redpezrocket on May 6, 2011 11:20 AM EDT up reply actions
No thanks.
He’s got some experience with the "enigma" factor, having coached both Dustin Penner and Ales Hemsky.
Neither of those guys played particularly well under MacT. He’s got a rep as someone who takes talented players, shackles them and rides their ass. I want someone who holds his players accountable, but I’d also like someone who has talented players that he’s coached who respect/like him. Even most of the guys who played for Hitchcock like Nash and Modano respect the hell out of the guy, even if he drove them nuts.
"Guy Boucher is outcoaching Bruce Boudreau so badly right now it’s sick." - Keith Jones
I’d rather Muller, but it sounds like DAL is hot on his tail. Maybe GMGM comes in late and says “wouldn’t you rather coach for a team with money and lots of talent?”
Sigh.
Based on nothing in particular, Mike Foligno?
"My favorite fan base in D.C. Is United's. Period. The end." - Steinberg
by Bald Pollack on May 6, 2011 11:33 AM EDT up reply actions
Just finished his first year as assistant with the Ducks after spending time at Hershey and Sudbury.
I’m also presuming Carlyle isn’t leaving/getting forced out anytime soon.
"My favorite fan base in D.C. Is United's. Period. The end." - Steinberg
by Bald Pollack on May 6, 2011 11:37 AM EDT up reply actions
The whole management team in Anaheim got re-upped during this past season.
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And they were completely supportive of Carlyle during the early struggles. Turned out to be right, too.
Sigh.
Yup. He did a good job given the cards he was dealt. They lack depth at forward, defense, and in goal. After Hiller went down he kept things from blowing up. Given who they had in net and on the blueline that is pretty good for the resume.
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If he were healthy, I’d take Brent Peterson in a hearbeat. Given his health situation though, I’m not sure he wants to be a head coach.
"Guy Boucher is outcoaching Bruce Boudreau so badly right now it’s sick." - Keith Jones
I didn’t know that* about Peterson, wow.
"My favorite fan base in D.C. Is United's. Period. The end." - Steinberg
by Bald Pollack on May 6, 2011 11:43 AM EDT up reply actions
Well, I’m operating off the same premise as J.P., which is
I’d think [Boudreau’s replacement would] have to be someone with at least some NHL success on the resume, but I could be wrong.
Mueller doesn’t exactly fit that description, in that he never really won as a player and hasn’t had a terribly long resume as an assistant coach or head coach.
Tortorella: Can I get another question? I went in here in a pretty good mood today, too.
Larry Brooks: So did I.
Tortorella: Well, you obviously f***ed that up, didn't you?
Muller has been coaching in MON for a few years now and everyone thinks he’s poised to be a fast rising coach. I’d rather not miss out on him because we need a re-tread with NHL head coaching experience.
Sigh.
In the 2011 NHLPA poll, Muller was picked as the asst coach who should be the next head coach. He was followed by Boughner, Granato, Oates, and McCrimmon.
This was the poll where BB was picked as the easiest to play for. His peers in that category were Trotz, Bylsma, Tippet, and Murray.
The coaches deemed most demanding were – Torts, Babcock, Boucher, Sutter, and Bylsma.
The coaches that were picked as the ones player most wanted to play for were – Bylsma, Babcock, Tippet, Boucher, and Quenneville.
The coaches players least wanted to play for were – Wilson, Torts, Crawford, Sutter, and Keenan.
What find most interesting are the overlaps between categories – the demanding coaches are also ones that players most and least want to play for. And while BB wasn’t one of them, two coaches deemed easiest to play for were also picked as coaches players would most like to play for.
Also in the poll the Capitals were voted the most overrated team, so it might be pretty reliable.
by Gin and Tonic on May 6, 2011 12:10 PM EDT up reply actions
I dont think Hartley has officially started with Zurich
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Dunno why more people aren’t talking about Scott Gordon, either.
Sheriff of Nothingham
by Steck It Out on May 6, 2011 11:44 AM EDT up reply actions
I like Scott Gordon. I think NYI embarrassing him took off the shine. He’d be a good transition. Still plays an up-tempo game but his team battled.
Sigh.
I think Garth Snow might actually be a pretty bright guy, but firing Gordon was one of his dumber moves. That being said, I actually think Gordon might be a good fit for the Caps system-wise, though I don’t know if he’s the sort of leader this team needs. Also, he’s still under contract with NYI, which might be an issue.
Tortorella: Can I get another question? I went in here in a pretty good mood today, too.
Larry Brooks: So did I.
Tortorella: Well, you obviously f***ed that up, didn't you?
I noted the other day that I think DC is an attractive job. Good team, good fan base, devoted ownership, seemingly fair management.
All things being equal, I think the Caps can get top talent compared to NJ, Dal, Minnesota, Florida and Ottawa.
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Even though I know it’s impossible, I can’t help but think about Per Bäckman. It’s simply the result of watching him work miracles with a Danish national team that is often overmatched in terms of talent.
He has been a master at managing ice times for individual players, changing tactics on the fly and isn’t afraid to gamble when the game is on the line. He’s also a strict disciplinarian who demands a sound work ethic every game, benches players who do not commit regardless of who they are and enjoys complete respect in the locker room. When skill player Kirill Starkov turned in a floaty irresponsible performance at the 2007 World Championships, Bäckman threw him off the team and he has since returned this year as a completely changed and more responsible player.
I would love to see Bäckman behind the bench. He has guts and no time for bullshit. Of course, there’s no telling at all whether he would be able to transfer his skills to the NHL or the Caps. He coached Färjestad to a Swedish championship in 1997 but was fired Frölunda in 2007, at which point Denmark tapped him to head up the national team. Then again there are few such guarantees when it comes to coaches.
Of course, I know it’s not going to happen, and I’m perfectly happy just seeing him manage the Danish bench, but I can’t help but feel an inordinate amount of respect for the guy and what he has done here.
"In the depths of winter, I learned there was in me an invincible summer" ~Albert Camus
If they wanted to go “outside the box,” do you think they’d consider Igor Larionov or Slava Fetisov?
Armareddon.
I would totally support Larionov as a coach if it meant we saw more of his daughter around DC.
All joking aside, does he have any coaching experience? I believe he was a GM in the KHL at one point, but I don’t know if he’s ever coached.
Tortorella: Can I get another question? I went in here in a pretty good mood today, too.
Larry Brooks: So did I.
Tortorella: Well, you obviously f***ed that up, didn't you?
I looked it up. Larionov never coached and is spending his time as a winemaker.
Fetisov won a SC as an asst coach with the Devils in 2000. He is currently the president of a KHL club and a politician.
So doesn’t look like either are candidates.
by Gin and Tonic on May 6, 2011 12:17 PM EDT up reply actions
And one of the guys who was regarded as even smarter has a pretty bad track record as a coach. A coach has to be smart, but there’s a lot more to it. Larionov just doesn’t seem interested in it.
Sigh.
Gretz was more talented, but I never thought he was as innately intelligent as Larionov or Dryden.
Armareddon.
I don’t think there was ever a smarter player than Gretzky. That’s the reason he became what he was. He was never the most physically gifted guy. He saw the game faster/better than anyone else.
Either way, quibbling over who was absolutely smarter is irrelevant. My point is that extremely intelligent players have no guarantee of becoming a good coach. There’s an entire other skill set a coach must have in addition to intelligence.
Sigh.
Different kinds of smarts. Gretzky was definitely way more whatever-kind-of-smart-he-was than Larionov, but I agree that Larionov was more whatever-kind-of-smart-he-was than Gretzky.
Larionov was a sculptor. I miss watching that guy.
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on May 6, 2011 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Most amazing stat of Gretzky’s
Fastest player to 1000 points. Twice.
Varly, Varly...errrrrr.....NEU-VY, NEU-VY! Pp
4 200 point seasons is just insanity
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I would absolutely love to see AO play in that era. No doubt in my mind he would have hit 100 goals.
Sigh.
yup, thats how I feel. Not discounting Gretz at all. I mean I was born in 82 so other the clips I never really saw a live game in the 80’s. But I think even in the 90s too AO would just devastate the record books.
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Larionov never coached and is spending his time as a winemaker.
[looks down]
Truth.
"Hockey is my life, wine is my passion." -- Igor Larionov
by Scott in Shaw on May 6, 2011 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions
You don’t think he might be tempted by the idea of coaching three-five of the most talented Russian players in the world (Ovie, Sasha, Varly, Orlov, and Kuznutz?)
Armareddon.
Doesn’t he still live in America? He doesn’t seem like he’d be swayed by the nationalism. You’re also a little too early bringing Varly, Orlov, or Kuz into that class.
Sigh.
In terms of talent? I don’t think I’m that far out on a limb. Who else might even be in the conversation with Varly? Nabokov, Bryzgalov, Bobrovsky and Khabibulin.
I’d have a hard time naming 10 Russian defensemen who are more talented than Orlov.
If Kuznetsov really is a center, I’d be likewise pressed to name 10 better Russian centers in terms of pure talent.
Sure, those guys haven’t accomplished much yet, but the talent is certainly there.
Armareddon.
As to G and D, that probably speaks to the lack of Russian depth more than anything. But even so, every Russian D in the NHL is better than Orlov right now. Many in the KHL are as well. Talent? Sure, he probably has more innate talent.
10 centers is a long list. I still don’t think he’s a lock, either.
Talent and being a good hockey player are all there. I just don’t think it’s going to sway Larionov one bit. Would he be more likely to come coach the Caps than a team with a bunch of Canadian/American studs on it? The guy doesn’t seem like the “Motherland or bust” type that many of the Russian players are.
Sigh.
I have no doubt he might be tempted to be around those Russian stars, but my point was more along the lines of what does he know about coaching? He knows how to make wine, though.
"Hockey is my life, wine is my passion." -- Igor Larionov
by Scott in Shaw on May 6, 2011 2:07 PM EDT up reply actions
I have not, but from what I’ve heard, they’re not very good.
Maybe he should try coaching?
"Hockey is my life, wine is my passion." -- Igor Larionov
by Scott in Shaw on May 6, 2011 2:43 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
How about the terrible strategy of shooting it on net from center ice? What was that supposed to accomplish othe than giving Tampa an easy breakout or missing the net and getting an icing. Also their D never had to worry about getting hit.
That is poor coaching at Any level.
by hatrik22 on May 6, 2011 11:21 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
Completely disagree. Completely.
Shooting on net is a viable strategy. First, it keeps the goaltender in the net and doesn’t allow the D to set up. Second, it creates rebounds for a charging offensive player to get. I argue that shooting on net does prevent an easy breakout, where as shooting behind the net and allowing the goalie to stop it does.
I would prefer to carry the puck in the zone, but if a forecheck prevents that, I’m very comfortable shooting it on net.
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Straight on shots also have another advantage in that players shouldn’t be planted right in front of their own goalie. So when you fire directly at the net, you probably hit the goalie more than you would from the side, if the opposing player has been doing his job. And if he isn’t in the right position, then you’ll probably be able to get a goal out of it anyway.
One of my problems with Bob/Boucher/Leighton is that their rebound control often fails them, and pucks bounce right back out. If you know there’s a goalie who can’t dump those into the corners, you want to get more opportunities by shooting from where you would like for those pucks to end up, even if you know you probably won’t score the first time.
by redpezrocket on May 6, 2011 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions
I agree, but with a caveat – you have to fire it low so that it bounces off the leg pads. If you put it high, the goalie will be able to catch it and either drop the puck and start a breakout, or hold it for an offensive-zone faceoff that will, at least 40% of the time, result in a loss of possession.
Tortorella: Can I get another question? I went in here in a pretty good mood today, too.
Larry Brooks: So did I.
Tortorella: Well, you obviously f***ed that up, didn't you?
Haters gonna hate.
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Jeff Schultz and Ivan Majesky
Sheriff of Nothingham
by Steck It Out on May 6, 2011 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions
Now there’s a fleet-footed pair (though two better sharpshooters from looooong range you’ll never find).
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I agree
But I’ve thought the guy should go for a while. I like Boudreau as a person, and on a different team, he might be a great coach. But this team needs discipline. It needs structure. It needs a calm, steady hand at the tiller. It needs someone who can and will rein in his star players’ worst tendencies. Boudreau may be a hockey genius, but he has show himself to be incapable of doing these things.
"Guy Boucher is outcoaching Bruce Boudreau so badly right now it’s sick." - Keith Jones
I could see him sitting a year out, then going to LAK, and having a ton of success, maybe winning a Cup. That would bring the MAN-HER-WAS-LAK full circle, I guess.
Sigh.
Yeah. Could see that happening. Who really knows with these things?
"Guy Boucher is outcoaching Bruce Boudreau so badly right now it’s sick." - Keith Jones
I could see it, though not in LA. Kings team desperately needs some discipline (of course I’d say the same for their front office).
The Artist Formerly Known as CP2Devil.
Associate Editor at Five For Howling.
It’s pretty clear to me that even if you think he’s a good coach (which you clearly don’t, at least not for this team), they need to make a change behind the bench for the reasons I laid out. Frankly, I don’t see what the argument for keeping him is.
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The only argument I can see is that GMGM and Ted “don’t want to let the players off the hook.”
Armareddon.
If they make enough roster changes
(ie trade Alex Semin, a goalie, decide to choose between Green and Wideman, who knows/whatever)
If someone wants BB out I doubt GMGM would make a satisfyingly compelling reason for him not being gone when the puck drops in the fall.
You got no fear of the underdog, that's why you will not survive
- Spoon (Austin TX)
don’t know if you grabbed this picture for this reason, but the blue devil horns on his head are great. Means nothing as most agree Bruce is a good person, just funny lookin (as is bruce).
Great. Now I have to change my name to "Jaromir meet Alex".
by Chris meet Alex on May 6, 2011 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Demonization of a Jack Adams award winner
Yep, I grabbed a screenshot of a presser he gave near the end of The Losing Streak because I noticed the horns were there perfectly crowning his head the whole time he was talking.
You got no fear of the underdog, that's why you will not survive
- Spoon (Austin TX)
The only argument I can see is the one Locker tried to make. Keep the coach, overhaul the roster. If they want to move Semin and Laich and Fehr and a small handful of other guys, bring in fresh blood, and let BB try again, I could see that.
I see no excuse for bringing the same roster/coach tandem back.
Sigh.
Obviously much easier to make a coaching change than hope you find a taker for Semin AND the right free agents.
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I keep hoping that Stastny hates what they’re doing in Colorado and wants to come to the east coast.
"Essentially, all models are wrong, but some are useful" George E.P. Box
by Knee high to a duck on May 6, 2011 4:36 PM EDT up reply actions
I'll throw out a few
1) Who’s better? Boudreau, if fired, immediately becomes the hottest coach on the market.
2) Isn’t it safer for McPhee to keep Boudreau for one more year and see what happens? If you’re the GM and you fire BB after 4 straight SED championships and 2 straight #1 seeds, and the next guy comes in and the team tanks, doesn’t that put your ass on the line? Unfortunately, sometimes I think GM makes too many “safe” choices (which is why we keep signing guys like Erskine to cheap deals).
3) And here’s the biggest one: McPhee has said over and over again that he believes the playoffs are basically a crapshoot and the best you can do is set up the team to have a long window of Cup contending years in the hopes that everything comes together in one of those years. If he really believes that, and he’s got a coach that’s gotten him a top 3 seed every year and a #1 seed 2 years in a row, why would he fire him?
"Wouldn't it be cool to win for Baltimore? Wouldn't it make you happy if New York was mad? If Philly was mad or Boston was mad? Wouldn't that feel good?"
--Adam Jones
Because when we get to the playoffs as a 1 seed, we suddenly play like we’re an 8 seed? The regular season can often be an illusion. Rack up a ton of your wins against crappy teams and you get the 1 seed. It hides the fact that you might have lost a good portion of your games against those you would see in the playoffs. Getting our asses handed to us by the Rangers in the regular season is why so many fans were going “anyone but the Rangers” when asked who they’d like to face in the playoffs.
I'm not saying his line of thinking is correct
just trying to look at it a different way.
That being said, I think you’re almost making a case for Bruce because he “fixed” the system and then the Caps beat the Rangers in 5.
Also, the Caps didn’t rack up a ton of their wins vs. crappy teams. They were 17-6-7 against this year’s playoff teams, for 41 points in 30 games, and the only playoff teams they had a losing record against were Boston and NYR.
"Wouldn't it be cool to win for Baltimore? Wouldn't it make you happy if New York was mad? If Philly was mad or Boston was mad? Wouldn't that feel good?"
--Adam Jones
I wasn’t using the Caps as a specific example when I said “rack up a ton of your wins against crappy teams.” But I was using the Caps as an example when I say that the regular season can be an illusion. Bruce is a good coach, but because we’ve lost so horribly in the playoffs, we have to ask why. Part of the answer is that during the regular season, you have 80+ games to build toward your playoff run and for the Caps, getting to the playoffs isn’t the hurdle to jump anymore. It’s making it past the first round consistently.
I agree that it's a problem
But I’m not sure that McPhee does, based on what he’s said.
"Wouldn't it be cool to win for Baltimore? Wouldn't it make you happy if New York was mad? If Philly was mad or Boston was mad? Wouldn't that feel good?"
--Adam Jones
Cept we didn’t rack up lots of wins against crappy teams. We took 3 of 4 against the Crosby-ful Pens and 4 of 6 against Tampa. 2 of 4 against the Flyers, 3 of 4 against the Habs… not bad. We beat playoff teams during the regular season.
And the noon number will be more depressing than THIS? Egad
Boswell wrote:
“The Caps brass doesn’t yet acknowledge how decisively Tampa Bay beat them. Eventually they may. But they still probably won’t fire Boudreau. McPhee truly reveres him — strictly as a coach, personality aside. And Leonsis knows that McPhee built the roster that fills his arena every game with fans who wear actual Caps jerseys, the expensive kind, not those free giveaways. Ted, the delegator, won’t undermine GMGM.”
I aint readin’ no more about nuthin.’
Yes. This is depressing in that real, good people are at risk of losing jobs doing what they love (which is actually pretty damn depressing).
The Nooner is more depressing from an individual, personal, “This is what I’ve given my heart to?” standpoint.
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I support the change but agree with Boswell. I don’t think Boudreau is going anywhere.
by brazilianbeast on May 6, 2011 11:46 AM EDT up reply actions
These recaps are theraputic for me.
To hear consice analysis that is pretty much what I have felt as well, makes it more clear to me what needs to change, and subsequently, gives me hope. I think the one thing on the resume needs to be a Stanley Cup, be it as an assistant or head coach. That experience to draw from, and “street cred” may be what this team NEEDS to get to the next level.
Cosign on everything J.P. said.
I’m really curious to know how our season would have faired if GMGM canned Boudreau during that God awful December losing streak (of course, PIT won the Cup doing the same move but we’ll never know).
As for GMGM’s comments, “I expect BB to be back.” The team has not had any chance yet to go through all their evaluations and digest other coaching options/fits. I think it’s more likely than not, as Ted said, they take their time and do some calculated analysis. Once the playoffs end, I think BB will get canned with a well articulated explanation.
"If everyone is thinking alike, somebody isn't thinking." -George S. Patton
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Kevin, you already know this, but you’re a typical Redskins fan. That means you’re required to demand the knee-jerk reaction (which in this case was Boudreau getting fired back in December). You’re also someone who is convinced Boudreau “lost the locker room,” even though you’ve never stepped foot in it. It’s part of your schtick. But my advice to you is to not hold your breath.
I’m willing to bet that Boudreau isn’t getting fired this offseason. I could see an assistant coach or two taking the fall, but I don’t believe he’ll be let go. Unlike the football team in town, the Caps really do prefer stability and try to give their coaches ample time to make stuff happen. If anything, posts like J.P.’s here build a case that the Caps probably give a coach like Boudreau too much of the benefit of the doubt.
Bottom line: they’re not running him off unless they’re absolutely convinced there’s no other option.
Waiting for the day Al Iafrate calls and tells me he's my father.
Alternative solution – why not change assistants? In business, sometimes you have good leaders who just need better deputies.
I know it creates a shadow of a potential successor, but why not pressure Bruce some. Bring in someone like John Anderson to assist his friend Bruce, or someone else. Maybe he isn’t listening to Evason and Woods as he should. Maybe he isn’t scared that they might take his job.
Let’s not forget that as an option.
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Sorry, but if he’s not listening to his assistants then he needs to go for that reason as well.
The Artist Formerly Known as CP2Devil.
Associate Editor at Five For Howling.
I disagree. There are some leaders that are more visionary than tactical. That’s why you see football teams swap out offensive or defensive coordinators.
I think this is a viable option.
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Representing Caps fandom in the Gateway to the West.
I read yesterday that Bruce is the PP coach, but that a lot of successful teams have PP specialist coaches, and that Pittsburgh is bringing in a PP specialist/consultant. They mentioned the Caps might do well to consider the same measure.
I would be surprised if there wasn’t a link in Clips to whatever article that was I read
You got no fear of the underdog, that's why you will not survive
- Spoon (Austin TX)
That isn’t the case here. Bruce is intimately involved in the tactics. In addition, Woods is his guy.
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Associate Editor at Five For Howling.
It’s an option, but I don’t see how it’s the best one.
"By far the worst performers on the (Redskins) are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins
It’s the best option if you want people to think you’re taking action, but you don’t really want to fire Boudreau or trade away high-priced underachievers. Canning an assistant coach or two in favor of someone who can be sold as a savior to the powerplay woes, etc. at least attempts to send a message that the front office isn’t burying its collective head in the sand.
Waiting for the day Al Iafrate calls and tells me he's my father.
To me, that always seems like such a weaselly thing to do, in any sport. Steinbrenner was famous for it and it always just seemed so petulant. If you want to embarrass the head coach, or put someone under him who will report directly to you as the GM or owner, just fire the coach and be honest about it.
Terrifically juvenile.
Tin-hat contribution
(not subscribed to by the author)
This team as currently configured should continue to have strong regular seasons and make the playoffs for the next two or three years.
If – when push comes to shove – the primary goal of the organization is to keep the stands full with winning (regular) seasons over winning a cup (by even a small margin) despite what Ted tells us: a tin-hat opinion would be that changing the coach would not ultimately be worth the risk should the players not work well with the new guy versus getting over the playoff hump. The stands are full, why rock the (red) boat?
I don’t know about you but I like a good playoff hump.
You got no fear of the underdog, that's why you will not survive
- Spoon (Austin TX)
Why can't we play a system like Vancouver?
Why can’t the Caps play a good, effective mix of offensive and defense? It seems we can do one or the other, but not both at the same time. Is this a personnel problem or a coaching problem? This team is too talented offensively to play a defense-first style of hockey.
Look at the Vancouver Canucks. #1 in the league in both GF and GA per game. What are the Caps missing that the Canucks have that prevents us from playing a similar style, offensively and defensively, as Vancouver? Offensively, I would say we have just as much firepower and talent as Vancouver.
Is this a forward problem, i.e., our forwards while offensively gifted are not defensively responsible enough? Ovi is a prime example of this.
Is the problem defensive personnel? If so, what would we need that we don’t have to change that?
Is the problem that Boudreau, being offensively-minded, simply cannot devise a system that is both offensively potent and defensively responsible?
If we played a system similar to Vancouver, I can’t help but think we would be much better off in the long run. Do we just simply not have the personnel/talent to play the same type of system as Vancouver? Or, is the problem that Boudreau is not capable of running/devising such a system?
Look at the Vancouver Canucks. #1 in the league in both GF and GA per game. What are the Caps missing that the Canucks have that prevents us from playing a similar style, offensively and defensively, as Vancouver?
I’d say start your search by looking at their corps of rugged, veteran defensemen.
OK, so the answer is to acquire more rugged, veteran defensemen rather than rely on rookie defensemen and offensive-defensivemen?
Is it your opinion that the Caps are not capable of playing a system/style like Vancouver because we don’t have the defensemen to do it?
What is it about having more rugged, veteran defensemen that allows Vancouver to not only play solid defensive hockey but also to be the top scoring team in the league?
I would maintain (in keeping with the topic of this thread) that Boudreau is not capable of devising/running a system that is both defensively responsible AND offensively potent. It’s one or the other with him. And this team needs a coach who can run a system that allows both defensive responsibility and offensive pressure.
Remember, the Caps played solid defensive hockey for the last month or two of the season. They clearly have the personnel to do it. Problem is, is doing so, they also sacrificed offense.
What is it about having more rugged, veteran defensemen that allows Vancouver to not only play solid defensive hockey but also to be the top scoring team in the league?
I think rugged, veteran defensemen are valuable because they use their experience to read plays, they win puck battles in the defensive zone and they get the team transitioned back on offense, all while wearing out opposing forwards which leads to turnovers by the opposition.
No, start your search at three lines of forwards that can dominate the hell out puck possession. Start with Manny Malhotra eating the tough zone starts, so that the Sedins can go rip the offensive zone to shreds. Go look at Ryan Kesler, a guy who played 1st lines across the league to a standstill or better, devour the souls of second and third lines.
The Canucks were dressing guys in the back that were no better than Erskine because of injury, and not one of their D is as good as Mike Green. They’re good, all of them, when they’re healthy, but that almost never happens.
"Essentially, all models are wrong, but some are useful" George E.P. Box
by Knee high to a duck on May 6, 2011 4:41 PM EDT up reply actions
I think Vancouver has so much talent in terms of offense and defense, and in goal, and lots of speed as well. Their speed let’s them be effective with an in-your-face aggressive forechecking. If you don’t have that speed, you need to slow the game down.
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by red army line on May 6, 2011 2:45 PM EDT up reply actions
But couldn’t the same thing be said of the Caps? We have a lot of talent on offense (Ovi, Nicky, Semin, Laich, MarJo, Fehr(?), etc.) and defense (Green, Carlznerson, Hannan, etc.). We have talent in goal and we are not what I would consider a slow team, especially with Chimera and MarJo.
I guess the reason I asked the question is to put it out there that we have the personnel to be solid offensive AND defensive team but I don’t think Bruce is the guy to implement a system that allows us to do that.
Time for McPhee to go
The guy calling the shots is McPhee. He put this team together and he’s the one who thinks it’s (still) good enough to win the cup. Obviously something’s missing and McPhee continues to bury his head in the sand thinking all he has to do is tweak some things. It’s time for a new person making the decisions at the top. Even if GMGM decides trades are necessary, his acumen in talent analysis is questionable as is his blueprint for what a complete team should look like. It’s easy to identify the high end talent but it’s not easy putting together a TEAM and what it takes to win. GMGM does not have the skills for the job. It’s time for a new GM to start filling in the right pieces.
his acumen in talent analysis is questionable as is his blueprint for what a complete team should look like.
I think this team is more “complete” than it has been. Most of our players are homegrown. Either we drafted them or they came to us through Hershey. I don’t see how a GM who got us Carlzner (just one example) has questionable skills in analyzing talent.
by redpezrocket on May 6, 2011 12:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Agreed, the talent is there. If you go man-for-man through the organization I think he looks like a decent talent evaluator.
Sigh.
I’ll agree with the caveat that it took him a while to get the hang of it. The Caps have nothing to show in terms of drafted players from his first half dozen or so drafts, aside from 2002 and 2004.
Ok, but you can’t fire him for the early rough patch now, can you? If you gave him time to work it out, and he did, then you have to judge him by the more recent years. There’s also been a lockout/rule change to affect strategy in drafting, etc.
Sigh.
Right, I’m not going to fire him over his bad drafts from early on; just trying to point out that he’s improved his eye for talent over the years.
And I guess what’s nice in realizing that he’s improved over the years is the hope that he’s still improving and will be even better in future years.
And those bad drafts early on seem to be a result of the scouting budget not being where it should. If you look at his success after the team committed to the rebuild, he’s gotten a lot better at finding late-round talent.
Tortorella: Can I get another question? I went in here in a pretty good mood today, too.
Larry Brooks: So did I.
Tortorella: Well, you obviously f***ed that up, didn't you?
I disagree, but I also think it’s an unlikely move. If you fire both (and I can’t imagine you’d fire just the GM and have him inherit a coach), you’re out of bullets. If things don’t work out then, you’ve got to point the finger directly at the biggest investment in town, namely #8. At the very least from a business perspective, the team needs to protect him as much as possible and kick the can down the road a bit on giving him the full-brunt of the failures (he’s already taking quite a bit of it). So you replace Bruce now, and if a new coach gets similar results, you can replace the GM, and if the results are still the same… it’s on #8. But you can’t let it get to that quite so soon.
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In this stay-or-go discussion, emotions can tend to get too involved on either side, but the incredibly persuasive argument to me is the one JP makes about the young players almost exclusively having played for BB. The ceiling would pretty obviously seem to have been reached. I also worry that if he is kept, it will be with an incredibly short leash, ready for an early- or mid-season replacement if things aren’t going well. But if the goal is an extended playoff run, as it should be, then it makes no sense to keep BB and have the start of the 11-12 season be some kind of referendum. He’s proved he can succeed in the regular season. Next.
Terrifically juvenile.
by stemmer on May 6, 2011 12:18 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I used to like ex-Kings and Blues coach Andy Murray…any thoughts?
To steal ideas from one person is plagiarism; to steal from many is research
His best success came in 2001, when the Kings forced the Colorado Avalanche to a 7 game series in the Western Conference Semifinals. The Kings forced the 7th game after previously being down three games to one. He garnered a lot of media attention after publicly stating that anyone on his team that wasn’t going to give 100% was not to travel with team back to Colorado for game 5 of the series. The Kings responded, winning game five, 1-0. They made Murray proud once again in game 6, when Glen Murray scored in the second overtime to win the game for the Kings, 1-0. Coach Andy Murray made a famous fist pump when exiting the team bench after winning game 6 in overtime.
To steal ideas from one person is plagiarism; to steal from many is research
by Rather Bengt on May 6, 2011 12:21 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m a big Andy Murray fan. You just have to know that he’s kind of Mike Keenan light, he seems to wear out his players after 3-5 years. It’s not the hard timeline of Keenan (3 years, guaranteed), but he’s got a clear expiration date. Of course, the way NHL coaching goes they almost all do. You just can’t hope that he’s going to be a Lindy Ruff for this organization. At least based on track record. I’m pretty sure both the LAK and definitely the STL players were sick of him by the end. He’s also known to be pretty tough on young players. That may or may not be a good thing with us.
Sigh.
He definitely wore out his welcome here. Davis Payne is much more of a players coach.
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It seems like Scotty Bowman would be the perfect fit for a Bruce replacement. If he had just retired a couple of years ago, it would definitely be worth a shot. Now hes 77 and probably loving life as an ex-coach, so its a no-go.
I think a potential good coach with good Washington ties and NHL assistant experience is Keith Allain, former Washington assistant coach. He coaches a very offensive team and has been very successful, in the college ranks at least. He has I think 5 or 6 years of NHL assistant experience. He is calm and composed behind the bench, might help the team’s demeanor. Potential drawbacks – his current team has been flaming-out of the NCAA Tourney earlier than expected; probably not the hard-ass disciplinarian that the Caps need.
Interesting. I think a little more Goalie temperament — keeping things medium, as it were — would be valuable behind the Caps bench. That Allain’s teams have flamed out of the NCAA is one side of the coin; that he’s been getting teams to that tournament, from not-exactly a hockey hot spot, may be the other side. IIRC, he also had some success in Sweden (and I don’t just mean his wife).
But at day’s end, I suspect Allain looks too much like Bruce Cassidy 2.0 — boyish wunderkind here to somehow get Iron Curtain Superstar’s attention — to get the job.
....when the truth is if they knew anything about the game, they'd be in it.
--GMGM
Bowman is 77? Good God, I’m getting old.
by DerwoodCapsMom on May 6, 2011 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions
If its the personnel then GMGM needs to get the boot. (not likely) However has to be ominous for those of us who think a change behind the bench is warranted when the GM says things like “"There’s no difference between a playoff coach and regular season coach.” Anyone (including him) really believe that???
I find sometimes it's easy to be myself
sometimes I find it's better to be somebody else
Ok, don’t kill me on this, but I am a Philadelphia Eagles fan for football, and a Caps fan for hockey. (I am not a bandwagoner, I’ve spent portions of my life in MD, VA, and PA).
From that perspective, keeping Bruce Boudreau as the coach would be what the Eagles do with Andy Reid, they are set up much more as a business than a franchise looking for greatness, with the idea being it’s better to be a regularly succesful team than a team that wins a championship and then has a few off years. Keeping Boudreau to me would be to follow the Eagles model of be above average, but below great, and keep the business flowing.
I think Boudreau MUST be fired. If you look at the last 10 teams to win the cup, none of their coaches coached that team more than 4 years before winning their first cup, with the average amount of time being 2.3 seasons. Next year will be Boudreau’s fifth.
Also, 2 years in a row, this team was beaten by an inability to get past a system, last year it was Montreal’s constant sag towards the goalie forcing the caps to shoot from the outside, this year it was the 1-3-1/ Trap. Also two years in a row, a powerplay filled with offensive monsters, can not score. It’s simply unacceptable. Fire him now.
by DirtyDanny on May 6, 2011 12:41 PM EDT reply actions 3 recs
if we judge the teams performance by the amount of RED jerseys at Verizon (multiply $150 each) and tickets sold, then GMGM and BB has done well…
yes, it would be nice to win a cup, but that the first and foremost is still making $$$, and to that end, the team has done quite well … promising the cup is just part of the marketing
Please…football is a joke compared to hockey. A coach who needs to win 3 playoff games in football to get a title is nothing compared to coaching a team through 4 best of 7 series.
on the other hand, a hockey coach has the liberty of being able to lose 12 games to win a championship. Football there’s no room for losers.
Suspend Colin Campbell!
by snowburnt on May 6, 2011 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
I am a Philadelphia Eagles fan for football, and a Caps fan for hockey.
Ditto. I made the Eagles comparison in yesterday’s Clips thread, but not the angle of being a regular playoff team without a championship. My angle was that the Eagles thought either Reid or McNabb was preventing them from getting over the hump to a championship, and decided to jettison McNabb and roll the dice with Reid. Because there’s no one hockey player as important to team success as a QB (although some could argue Ovechkin is), the only way to figure out whether it is Bruce who is holding the Caps team is to let him go and see what happens with a new voice (the point of JP’s excellent analysis).
"Hockey is my life, wine is my passion." -- Igor Larionov
by Scott in Shaw on May 6, 2011 2:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Actually there's a 4th possible explanation... It's Stevie Y's fault
I know we don’t want to admit it right now, but perhaps…
TB is a better team than the Caps. [GASP!]
Stamkos may right now be better than Ovie,
St. Louis is MILES BETTER than Backstrom,
Vinnie is better than Semin,
ancient as he is, Rollie played better than Neuvy,
And while the 1-3-1 didn’t cause the turnovers and scoring chances it’s designed to do, it did mitigate some of the skill difference between the two D corps (especially with the caps missing or having banged-up some of their key d-men)
The rest of the two teams are probably a wash, and when you create a scheme that allows your defensive deficiencies to be limited as well as limits the wear and tear on your forwards (who aren’t forechecking like madmen all game long), you then have to simply have your skill guys outplay theirs. Which they did.
I think this team may not be best served by Bruce (for many reasons – inmates are running the asylum, lack of in-game and in-series adjustments, etc.) but I don’t necessarily think the TB series is entirely about Bruce.
I think we need to give Tampa Bay more credit than they are probably getting here.
Great. Now I have to change my name to "Jaromir meet Alex".
by Chris meet Alex on May 6, 2011 12:48 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I think we need to give Tampa Bay more credit than they are probably getting here.
Absolutely. And the flip side of that as well, if we’re being honest.
by Naptown CapsFan on May 6, 2011 1:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Agreed.
Last year Behind the Net wrote a story about how all of the Caps skill players had their best shooting season of their careers simultaneously (all except Ovie), and that perhaps this team isn’t the juggernaut that everyone was claiming they were.
There may be some truth to that as well.
Great. Now I have to change my name to "Jaromir meet Alex".
by Chris meet Alex on May 6, 2011 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions
That maybe true, but there’s no doubt in my mind that on April 15, the Capitals were the better hockey team. Not by much, but also by a not-insignificant margin.
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by red army line on May 6, 2011 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Watching NHL Live yesterday
To a person, the commentators pretty much eviscerated GMGM’s statement that there’s no difference between a regular season coach and a playoff coach, and that BB fails miserably in a long series where adjustments and counters are a must. Not only that, but he seems incapable to me of devising a system that maximizes the strengths and minimizes the weaknesses of his teams, whether due to just the basic personnel or the inevitable injury factor.
Hey, at least we won the Winter Classic!
sounds like they should be thanking GMGM for giving them something to talk about for 20 minutes.
How does anyone take what a GM says seriously anyway?
Suspend Colin Campbell!
Well, he is still in the game after all… (snark)
Hey, at least we won the Winter Classic!
by norcalcapsfan on May 6, 2011 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Seriously.
The next post game quote or throwaway interview I hear will be too soon.
They’re almost completely worthless.
Almost no decent coaches or GMs reveal anything in interviews.
"By far the worst performers on the (Redskins) are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins
My reasons why the Caps need a new coach...
Ill preface this by saying I like BB – he’s an awesome guy
.
1) System change or not … the Caps looked exactly like they did in the Montreal Series – slow, lethargic and lost It’s time for a “Fresh of Breath Air”. He doesn’t know how to get the best out of his troops when it matters most..
2) His tie. I know I may get killed for this but did anyone notice BB was wearing a shiny blue tie in Game 4. Can you believe that? The most important game of the Capitals season and he is wearing the enemies colors? Look at Peter Laviolette – no matter where they are home or on the road… ALWAYS in an orange tie. We don’t rock the blue. We Rock the Red. I can only imagine the players when the get back to the bench and see blue … maybe it’s trivial – but it really pissed me off
"Can you smell what the Arnott is Cooking?"
by TheFuryUnleashed on May 6, 2011 1:31 PM EDT reply actions
Okay, the tie thing. My beef is that it was just an ugly-ass tie, not that it was blue. It was just ugly. I don’t care that he wore a blue tie…the Lightning were wearing black uniforms. During one of the games in the Rangers series, I noticed Alan May wearing a blue tie …in a shade similar to the Rangers’ blue. That was a little annoying, but Bruce wearing what could be one of the uglist ties known to man is more offensive than it being blue when the home team wasn’t even wearing blue.
but the Arena is a Sea Of Blue…. They are changing the uni’s next year to Blue … Alan wore a blue tie but not in the most important game of the year … Joe B was rockin’ it.. and Locker was neutral
"Can you smell what the Arnott is Cooking?"
by TheFuryUnleashed on May 6, 2011 1:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Funny about the tie – in our emails back and forth after the game, that was my Mom’s chief complaint as well! The awful blue tie.
by Naptown CapsFan on May 6, 2011 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions
I totally feel you about the tie but mostly because I think it speaks to the “live the game” mentality. For years now I wanted to fire BB because he was fat. I know everyone makes fun of it, but honestly, how can you tell a professional athlete to bust his ass off conditioning, when you can’t do the same yourself with your own health! I know that all sports have amazing coaches who aren’t in shape, fine, I get it, but I honestly think BB didn’t lead by example in his own life, and it translated into everything on this team.
I know people trot this out whenever the topic is broached, but you do know a lot of that is medically-related, right? I know Hagan Daaz didn’t help his cause, but he’s round for a reason.
I dont think any mall is open at 9…and who doesnt like to eat icecream when walking around the mall
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I think the mall was Tysons and during the holidays, so I think it was open earlier. Anyway, even if it wasn’t 9 am, it was early and one of his kids even said so. My point was that I wasn’t using ice cream as a “har har he’s fat” thing, but to make the point that he has a medical condition and he’s talked about his weight before. A lot of people don’t know that, so all they see is the fact that he wanted to have ice cream in the morning.
gotta hand it to HBO
nice editing but Gabby didn’t make it hard for them to build a case against him
Suspend Colin Campbell!
He has diabetes. That’s a big part of the reason why he’s as big as he is. If you can’t metabolize glucose properly, you’re going to have a hell of a time losing weight.
Tortorella: Can I get another question? I went in here in a pretty good mood today, too.
Larry Brooks: So did I.
Tortorella: Well, you obviously f***ed that up, didn't you?
I’ve been sitting on my thoughts for the last few days, letting them stew over. As a somewhat regular people should know what lobbies I sat on. MJ90 > MP85 when that was relevant, Team Varly, Gabby should stay.
Alas my alliances have changed.
I don’t think its entirely on the players the recent and embarrassing sweep to a lower seed and divisional foe. I personally think Alex Ovechkin wants to win more than anything or anyone else. I can’t say as much for other players, players who haven’t experienced success with BB at hershey such as Backstrom, Semin, Green. As athletes I’m sure they do want to win, and for the most part played really well this post season. I find it hard to pin a lot of blame on Backstrom when he was having a poor year overall, for him and what’s expected of him. Semin was what we wanted him to be in the playoffs, a second Alex-based scoring threat. Greener’s play left some things to be desired but I thought he was contributing and that was needed from a team’s star player. I did think, however, Michal Neuvirth looked tired by the end of the series. Possibly form playing so many back to backs, the emotional upsets of repeated defeat, or just a long year. Prior to the playoffs I voiced for Team Tandem, where one guy would be a main starter but in inconsequential, or non-deciding games, the other would play. I don’t think starting Varly in Game 3’s of both series would of changed the individual games results, but it may of helped Neuvy. But that’s purely speculation, but I do think you need to manage your 2-21 year old goalies and can’t just ride one.
My major lobby change has come against my prior alliances to Bruce Boudrea, BB, Gabby. He had his team play a great series against the Rangers where they dominated stretches of play for long periods of time and as a result won the series in 5. But for some reason, the guy who figured out TB’s 1-3-1 in the regular season to such success that other coaches, like the kid who didn’t study for the final exam, looked over his shoulder to copy his material and also found success, was devastatingly out coached by a rookie coach who uses a lot of similar principles. Nevermind the embarrassment of being lumped in with a team like PHX, a team of “meh” at best players being coached above their norms, by being swept. During the series whatever changes were made weren’t ever enough. Guy Boucher and most tacticians don’t see the flaws in their own system without them being exploited. And that usually is the mark of a great coach, not only how good their system normally is, but how they adapt to resolve any exploits in their system others inevitably find. Whatever changes BB made, Boucher was able to make those adaptations during games and easily. While on paper these 2 teams matched up pretty evenly, though I’d argue normally our bottom 6F is better than TBL’s theirs definitely stepped up (small rant: how is downie tied with Vinny in points!? wow).
But Bottom Line to this series was we were out coached. Its time to move forward.
Bruce Boudreau when asked about Brooks Laich's return to the lineup, he said: "He just adds another dimension to our team. If it was puzzle, he just fits that thing. He completes us."
Brooks Laich completing everything from teams to tires and everything in between.
by breaklance on May 6, 2011 1:33 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I agree…just a nitpick though, and I’m not sure if that modifies your stance at all. Both Neuvy and Varly are 23 now (they’re only a month and some days apart in age). I know one year, two years doesn’t seem so different but it does make a big difference. They’re young, but they’re not children. They’re not even 2 years apart but Neuvy is way ahead of Holtby in terms of mental preparedness and calmness.
Despite being wrong on their ages, both have only played 1 season. I know Varly was up last season but in that one and this one he didn’t play much but together work out to like a full season. Its not like these guys are seasoned veterans like the ageless wonders, Knuble Arnott Roloson. But they aren’t full rookies either imo but a step above that.
I still think Neuvy was tired because he didn’t seem as sharp as he was against the Rangers and I’m not just saying that because he was out played by a guy old enough to be his father.
Bruce Boudreau when asked about Brooks Laich's return to the lineup, he said: "He just adds another dimension to our team. If it was puzzle, he just fits that thing. He completes us."
Brooks Laich completing everything from teams to tires and everything in between.
Some Perspective
This is a wonderful site. Thoughtful and analytical. It’s existence, and the passion of the posters, confirms to me that the Capitals have already largely succeeded in making Washington a hockey town.
While I understand the desire for change, I’d caution some patience. The player exit interviews, in part, should provide valuable intelligence. It is too early to make recommendations regarding changes, in my view.
I fully appreciate the perspective that franchise sucess is measured solely by winning the Cup. Success can be measured many ways, however. Like all sports, hockey is entertainment, and the Caps are in the entertainment business. I think they excel at that, even when they let us down at moments (or perhaps more accurately, “all moments” in recent playoff history). Ted Leonsis is a great owner. The franchise is loaded with talent. They are a perennial winner during the regular season. Wouldn’t the Nationals or the ‘Skins love to be in the Caps’ position — making it to the World Series or playoffs, year after year, only to lose? Any how many other hockey franchises would choose to trade places with us, right now, warts and all?
It is not that I’m a beaten down fan that has come to expect mediocrity annually in the playoffs. Nor do I work for the Caps organization, nor do they have me on a marketing retainer. I just think it is damn hard to win in the playoffs, and with patience — and tweaking as necessary — the franchise will get there.
Granted he started when he was 34, but Scotty Bowman had the following playoff record during his first five post seasons: (1) 8W/10L; (2) 8W/4L; (3) 8W/8L; (4) 2W/4L; (5) 2W/4L. So if anything, he was trailing off. Then he won the Cup in his sixth season. I’m not saying that BB is SB; just cautioning patience and perspective.
Great board, thank you all very much. Go Caps!
Still worshipping at my Joe Juneau shrine. And a 4.0 in engineering, too.
I appreciate your perspective on this. However, I’ll add that the lowering of the UFA age and the addition of the salary cap have made it harder to keep teams together. In Bowman’s era, I think you could be more patient with a coach if you wanted because you could keep your team together, perhaps indefinitely. In the new NHL, I’m not sure if anyone can keep their “window” open as long, and therefor they can’t afford to be as patient with a coach.
I hadn't thought of that
Great point. I pretend to understand hockey. Oh well. Maybe I am just a beaten down fan. That sucking sound you hear is what remains of my 401K going to Semin’s bank account.
Still worshipping at my Joe Juneau shrine. And a 4.0 in engineering, too.
I understand the rationale for this discussion, but when people start putting horns on Bruce’s head or saying they want to take away a guy’s dream because he’s fat, well, I think I’ll pass. And people wonder why players and coaches have so little loyalty.
Yeah, but it’s doubly asinine when you see people, and yeah it is happening in this thread even, that say he’s not being followed because he’s fat. One of the stupidest things I’ve ever seen on this site.
by Charlie Foxtrot on May 6, 2011 3:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Maybe I’m Z’ing through too fast, but I don’t think “he’s fat” has been advanced as a serious argument against him.
Sigh.
The only thing I saw was this:
I totally feel you about the tie but mostly because I think it speaks to the "live the game" mentality. For years now I wanted to fire BB because he was fat. I know everyone makes fun of it, but honestly, how can you tell a professional athlete to bust his ass off conditioning, when you can’t do the same yourself with your own health! I know that all sports have amazing coaches who aren’t in shape, fine, I get it, but I honestly think BB didn’t lead by example in his own life, and it translated into everything on this team. – feeya7
I made the rebuttal that he has a medical condition, and that (perhaps I should have been clearer on this) because not many people know that, all they saw was what was in 24/7 with him wanting ice cream at the mall in the morning.
It doesn’t matter if he’s got a glandular problem or Type I diabetes or whatever. He’s not a professional athlete anymore. The only person he’s accountable to weight-wise is himself, maybe his family if his weight were leading to serious health-risks.
I judge the man on his performance with his players, not the size of his waistband. Just ridiculous.
by Charlie Foxtrot on May 6, 2011 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Wow…never saw that…definitely dont think that is a theme backed by many
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Someone said above that for years, he/she wanted Boudreau to be fired because he was fat, that players would have a hard time taking lessons to work hard and to be conditioned well, because the person telling them is fat.
I’ll say one thing. I boxed Golden Gloves for four years, and I never once gave two shits that the person telling me to bust my ass was overweight. I find the idea that professional athletes would care even more asinine.
by Charlie Foxtrot on May 6, 2011 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions
The list of successful out of shape coaches is so long that it doesnt even make sense to throw out names as evidence…just a crazy statement I think
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I think you missed the message in the horny Bruce picture- which is not very different in sentiment to your statement
People miss my angle all the time here either purposely or by accident so I’m not particularly surprised or bovered.
But FYI:
- The horns are actually the weagle behind his head, they were not “put” on his head.
- It’s not the fist time I posted it- I originally posted it when they broke out of the losing streak saying that Bruce had made a deal with the devil to get a win.
You got no fear of the underdog, that's why you will not survive
- Spoon (Austin TX)
I feel that it really is time for a change, although i’m still kind of 50/50 on whether BB should be canned because I mostly blame the players for poor execution (IMHO), however i’m also aware that as a coach you have the responsibility to MAKE your players understand the message and execute that well on the ice.
I’m just flabbergasted because we have so much talent yet not enough passion, heart, discipline and the right attitude to go along with it.
Anyways, I’m looking forward to the changes that will eventually be made, whether it’s the coaching staff or a shake-up in the roster, I just hope whatever that will be will lead us to a more fruitful and successful 2011/2012 regular and playoff seasons because maybe it will just make this brutal sweep a faded memory for me…
btw, thank you for this blog and for allowing us fans to express the joy and sorrow that is Caps hockey. Peace.
GMGM has been eviscerated here, and rightly so, for his comment that there’s no difference between a good regular season coach and a good playoff coach. There’s still, however, a question in my mind of why those two are different.
A big difference between coaching in the playoffs, in my mind, and the regular season, is that you’re much more able to game-plan for an opponent, at least in the first round of the playoffs. In the regular season, you can’t go over a large amount of game film prior to every game, just because there isn’t that much time. In the playoffs, particularly if there’s a lay-off between rounds, game-planning becomes much more possible.
To that end, I have to wonder how much the Caps were harmed by a short layover between finding out that they were playing Tampa and game 1 of the series. I also have to wonder how much blame can be laid on Blaine Forsythe.
Tortorella: Can I get another question? I went in here in a pretty good mood today, too.
Larry Brooks: So did I.
Tortorella: Well, you obviously f***ed that up, didn't you?
Tampa had the same amount of time — we all thought it would most likely be Buffalo/Washington
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on May 6, 2011 4:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh, hey, look - the Queen just read this post...
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by Rainbow, Kitty, Beer on May 6, 2011 11:06 PM EDT up reply actions
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