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The Noon Number

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13 - Number of times in franchise history that the Capitals have lost a playoff series to a lower-seeded team in 22 trips to the post-season. Of the remaining nine series, the Caps had two-game leads in three of them and one-game leads in another two. A breakdown of those 22 season-ending series:


SeasonRoundOpponentHome IceBiggest Caps Lead in GamesFinal Result
2010-11 Second Tampa Bay WSH Never led 0-4
2009-10 First Montreal WSH 3-1 3-4
2008-09 Second Pittsburgh WSH 2-0 3-4
2007-08 First Philadelphia WSH 1-0 3-4
2002-03 First Tampa Bay TBL 2-0 2-4
2000-01 First Pittsburgh WSH 1-0 2-4
1999-00 First Pittsburgh WSH Never led 1-4
1997-98 Fourth Detroit DET Never led 0-4
1995-96 First Pittsburgh PIT 2-0 2-4
1994-95 First Pittsburgh PIT 3-1 3-4
1993-94 Second NY Rangers NYR Never led 1-4
1992-93 First NY Islanders WSH 1-0 2-4
1991-92 First Pittsburgh WSH 2-0, 3-1 3-4
1990-91 Second Pittsburgh PIT 1-0 1-4
1989-90 Third Boston BOS Never led 0-4
1988-89 First Philadelphia WSH 1-0, 2-1 2-4
1987-88 Second New Jersey WSH 1-0 3-4
1986-87 First NY Islanders WSH 3-1 3-4
1985-86 Second NY Rangers WSH 2-1 2-4
1984-85 First NY Islanders WSH 2-0 2-3
1983-84 Second NY Islanders NYI 1-0 1-4
1982-83 First NY Islanders NYI Never led 1-3

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Three

Three 3-1 leads.

Maybe Kyle Wellwood meant the Caps are afraid of winning and not the Canucks :(

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by PPP on May 6, 2011 12:02 PM EDT reply actions  

There’s gotta be some kind of curse.

The twitters.
Currently Netflixing: Random episodes of lost.

See you in September Ovi, Green, and the man who claims to be Nick Backstrom.

by Ovechwin on May 6, 2011 12:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

I wish we could figure out what it is. Other sports curses have an incident that you can point to (even if curses are superstitious silliness).

Lacking specific evidence to the contrary, I shall blame this on Chemmy and Two Line Pass.

by CapitalCentre on May 6, 2011 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

When the Capitals won the Eastern Conference in ‘98, they touched and lifted up the Prince of Wales trophy, and there’s a superstition that you’re not supposed to do that.

At least, that’s the only thing pertaining to a “curse” I can think of.

Sheriff of Nothingham

by Steck It Out on May 6, 2011 1:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

This curse has held us longer than that.

Lacking specific evidence to the contrary, I shall blame this on Chemmy and Two Line Pass.

by CapitalCentre on May 6, 2011 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

Believing in curses is for Beantown weenies…

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by J.P. on May 6, 2011 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions   2 recs

...

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by Cap-O-Vens on May 6, 2011 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

You trying to say Jesus Christ can’t hit a curve ball?

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by RedBirdie on May 6, 2011 1:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

JooBoo bobble head night giveaway for game 1 next year? I love it…

by SA-Town on May 6, 2011 1:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

I say Franceschetti you, Jobu. I do it mySelf.

....when the truth is if they knew anything about the game, they'd be in it.
--GMGM

by redlineblue on May 6, 2011 2:10 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Actually, four blown 3-1 leads as I read it.

/debbie downer

by Naptown CapsFan on May 6, 2011 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

Even though I have only watched since around halfway on the list, it is still very, very depressing.

by SHooks on May 6, 2011 12:02 PM EDT reply actions  

Could the Noon Number take a break for the off-season? :(

Don’t try to figure Sasha out. Just ride the wave.

by gfcaps fan on May 6, 2011 12:03 PM EDT reply actions  

At some point, you just have to laugh :-/

by HolyJumpin on May 6, 2011 12:17 PM EDT reply actions  

I know. That’s what I’ve been doing. I feel like if we had lost in 7 it would’ve hurt more, but just the sheer embarrassment of getting swept, just makes it less painful and quite comical.

Oh the life of a Caps fan.

by reesem37 on May 6, 2011 12:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

Btw, if someone was a real masochist, they’d list the regular season point differentials between the Caps and the teams that have beaten them (but good luck topping 1985-86, when the Caps had 107 points and lost to the 78-point Rangers).

Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world

by J.P. on May 6, 2011 12:55 PM EDT reply actions  

are you trying to convince your readership to fling themselves off bridges today?

Pledge Drive 2010-2011: SO KIDS CAN!! Help build a playground

by RedBirdie on May 6, 2011 1:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

Is the ’02-03 one legit? Looking on NHL.com it had the ’Ning winning the SE.

"My favorite fan base in D.C. Is United's. Period. The end." - Steinberg

by Bald Pollack on May 6, 2011 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

Whoops, reading fail on my part.

"My favorite fan base in D.C. Is United's. Period. The end." - Steinberg

by Bald Pollack on May 6, 2011 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

Here goes, the times where we had as many or fewer points in bold.

2010-11: 4 points TB (103) over Caps (107)
2009-10: 33 points MON (88) over Caps (121)
2008-09: 9 points PIT (99) over Caps (108)
2007-08: -1 point PHI (95) over Caps (94)
2002-03: -1 point TB (93) over Caps (92)
2000-01: 0 points PIT (96) and Caps (96)
1999-00: 14 points PIT (88) over Caps (102)
1997-98: -11 points DET (103) over Caps (92)
1995-96: -13 points PIT (102) over Caps (89)
1994-95: -9 points PIT (61) over Caps (52)
1993-94: -24 points NYR (112) over Caps (88)
1992-93: 6 points NYI (87) over Caps (93)
1991-92: 11 points PIT (87) over Caps (98)
1990-91: -7 points PIT (88) over Caps (81)
1989-90: -23 points BOS (101) over Caps (78)
1988-89: 12 points PHI (80) over Caps (92)
1987-88: 3 points NJ (82) over Caps (85)
1986-87: 4 points NYI (82) over Caps (86)
1985-86: 29 points NYR (78) over Caps (107)
1984-85: 15 points NYI (86) over Caps (101)
1983-84: -3 points NYI (104) over Caps (101)
1982-83: -2 points NYI (96) over Caps (94)

Now someone take my belt and shoelaces away from me.

"My favorite fan base in D.C. Is United's. Period. The end." - Steinberg

by Bald Pollack on May 6, 2011 1:57 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

If it’s any comfort, the Caps’ average playoff series loss (based on your numbers) has come to a team with 2.1 fewer points – one win – in the standings.

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by J.P. on May 6, 2011 2:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

Indeed the most depressing Noon Number ever

But there’s always next season…

Hey, at least we won the Winter Classic!

by norcalcapsfan on May 6, 2011 1:02 PM EDT reply actions  

Are you meaning to suggest that this Noon Number could be surpassed in depressing-ness with next years updated edition?

You got no fear of the underdog, that's why you will not survive
- Spoon (Austin TX)

by Icebat on May 6, 2011 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

Sadly, yes.

Hey, at least we won the Winter Classic!

by norcalcapsfan on May 6, 2011 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

I knew the numbers, but seeing them laid out like this is depressing. Oof.

by spokeinthebandwagon on May 6, 2011 1:07 PM EDT reply actions  

Only way to read this is with some wellbutrin or prozac and a tumbler of vodka.

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by STLSpidey on May 6, 2011 1:12 PM EDT reply actions  

I went with the “comment first, never read” philosophy today.

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by RedBirdie on May 6, 2011 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

Isn’t always better to read comments, reply, then read the actual post?

Life With Spidey -- a blog about sports, travel, work, family and fun.
Representing Caps fandom in the Gateway to the West.

by STLSpidey on May 6, 2011 1:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

In the tub, with a razor.

That'll make your weagle wink!
The pants that bind us should be left behind us.

by boutros23 on May 6, 2011 6:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

Prevention

So, this is the t-shirt the Caps need next season?

Are you not entertained?

by Seminrocks on May 6, 2011 1:13 PM EDT reply actions  

How about

Stay angry.
longer this time.
no, seriously.
and maybe score some more goals too

You got no fear of the underdog, that's why you will not survive
- Spoon (Austin TX)

by Icebat on May 6, 2011 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

We’re like the rotties and dobermans you find at the Animal Rescue League: beaten down, mistreated, and edgy.

by S h a g g y on May 6, 2011 1:14 PM EDT via mobile reply actions   1 recs

. But dammit I’m sticking with these bastards to the end.

HERE HERE!

by Brainumbc on May 6, 2011 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

I used to be a ’skins fan, but the owner has sucked any joy and emotional attachment out of rooting for that team. I love baseball but given where the Nats are its hard to put any emotion into rooting for them. I went to William and Mary. We play 1-AA football and the basketball team has never made the tournament, so its hard to get emotional rooting for the old alma mater.

ALL of the real feeling and emotion I have as a sports fan is wrapped up in this hockey team. I refuse to give in to the dark side, even today, even in the face of the most depressing noon number ever. The Rapture will happen. Lord Stanley will bless us Caps fans one day. Keep the Faith!!

by Hangsleben's Heroes on May 6, 2011 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

I’m where you are, an old Caps fan. And am even an alum of the same college. I do remember Alan Hangsleben.

I was originally more of a baseball fan than hockey fan. While I’ve rooted for some World Championships (various St. Louis Cardinal teams), the Cards were the first team that blew a 3 game to 1 edge in a championship series. (And then the Orioles did that, against a Pittsburgh team as well.)

Rocking the Red for teams on the banks of the Potomac and at the Gateway Arch and Singing the Blues about Hockey.

by CapsFan75 on May 6, 2011 6:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

A quick count of all time playoff opponents form that graph

BOSTON: 1
DETROIT: 1
MONTREAL: 1
DEVILS: 1
RANGERS: 2
FLYERS: 2
TAMPA BAY: 2
ISLANDERS: 5
PENGUINS: 7

by Brainumbc on May 6, 2011 1:26 PM EDT reply actions  

Not opponents, but teams that have eliminated the Caps.

It’s a wonder we don’t hate the Isles more, but I guess their recent suckitude has deflated that balloon. Of course, given that they are the former employer of Dwayne Roloson, Sean Bergenheim, Marc-Andre Bergeron, Eric Brewer and Nate Thompson, maybe we should re-evaluate and re-focus some hatred their way…

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by J.P. on May 6, 2011 2:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

I used to hate them bitterly, but since Mike Milbury took them apart I’ve felt mostly pity.

Sigh.

by Rob Parker on May 6, 2011 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

Aye. My hatred for them peaked with LaFontaine’s goal and Potvin’s knee. Hasn’t been the same since (though I dug when Brash scored and then dropped Witt like a toilet seat).

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by J.P. on May 6, 2011 2:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

I liked when Brash dropped Witt, as well. Don’t pull that crap, Brendan. Brash won’t crumple like some silly SUV.

I was so young in the ‘80s that I probably remember the knee and LaFontaine’s goal more through lore than actual memory. Youth is probably the only reason I don’t carry a bitter hatred for the Isles forever.

Sigh.

by Rob Parker on May 6, 2011 2:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

My favorite part is Witt’s little head fake. Smart move – see if the guy with the itchy trigger finger will flinch.

Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world

by J.P. on May 6, 2011 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

That’s what I meant by “that crap.” So dumb. Didn’t Boulton do that to Erskine this year before Erskine slammed him against the glass (and I think ended Boulton’s game)?

Sigh.

by Rob Parker on May 6, 2011 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

Potvin’s knee

Not the kind of event we’ll ever see in one of those “History Will Be Made” commercials, is it?

Don’t try to figure Sasha out. Just ride the wave.

by gfcaps fan on May 6, 2011 3:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

Wow… Ovechkin was on the ice, too.

by RCheli on May 6, 2011 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

Me, too. The Islanders were the first hockey team I really hated. At that time, the Yankees were really doing well, also, so I developed an aversion to NY teams in general.

Rocking the Red for teams on the banks of the Potomac and at the Gateway Arch and Singing the Blues about Hockey.

by CapsFan75 on May 6, 2011 6:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

There can’t be another team out there that has this same combination of blown series leads AND upsets, can there? Without ever winning?

This has to be a pretty unique form of fan torture.

by Stormblue on May 6, 2011 1:27 PM EDT reply actions  

I bet recent Sharks fans know how we feel (up until now at least)

by Brainumbc on May 6, 2011 1:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

The Sharks don’t seem to do epic collapses. While they’ve been upset in plenty of series, they seem to get off to a bad start in series (as what happened 2 years ago when they lost their first 2 games to the Ducks) and just don’t recover.

I actually got in a discussion with fans about it on “Fear the Fin” last year. They were up 3 games to 0 last year and were playing the Red Wings (gee, that’s familiar) and some were paranoid about blowing the series. Other fans became more reassuring and said it was not characteristic of the Sharks to do epic collapses.

Rocking the Red for teams on the banks of the Potomac and at the Gateway Arch and Singing the Blues about Hockey.

by CapsFan75 on May 6, 2011 6:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

The Red Sox used to find some really heart breaking ways to lose World Series and blow division leads. If they won their division, they could usually get to the series but blow it there.

And then there was the California Angels who also found ways to lose playoff series

Rocking the Red for teams on the banks of the Potomac and at the Gateway Arch and Singing the Blues about Hockey.

by CapsFan75 on May 6, 2011 6:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

Am I reading this right?

Starting in 1982, the caps made 14 STRAIGHT appearances in the post season?

by Brainumbc on May 6, 2011 1:28 PM EDT reply actions  

And if memory serves me correct, the Caps failed to get into the playoffs the previous 2 years on the last day of the regular season. O to be a Caps fan.

Winning is everything. The only ones who remember you when you come second are your wife and your dog.

by Racin23 on May 6, 2011 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

yes they did. It’s among the longest playoff streaks in the NHL.

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by RedBirdie on May 6, 2011 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

well, it was one of the longest active playoff streaks. And most of that was during the days of when only 6 teams didn’t go to the playoffs.

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by apk3000 on May 6, 2011 2:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

It’s on the list of longest ever streaks, but not that near the top.

by STLEdge on May 6, 2011 2:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

The Blackhawks had 28 straight seasons in the playoffs without a Cup though.

by STLEdge on May 6, 2011 2:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ah, the futility of being a Hawks fan in the good old days. Believe me, no one knows playoff failure sympathy like a long-time Hawks fan. 28 straight playoffs,49 straight years. Thank god for Jonny Toews.

by spokeinthebandwagon on May 6, 2011 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

It was a different time, though. Before expansion, all but 5 or 6 teams made the playoffs. So teams like the Devils and Penguins who missed it for much of the 80s were really, really bad.

by RCheli on May 6, 2011 4:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

and yet, those bastards have Cups. Cups. Plural. ^@#*$^&!@%!

at this point, I’ll happily sign on the dotted line, Satan.

Pledge Drive 2010-2011: SO KIDS CAN!! Help build a playground

by RedBirdie on May 6, 2011 4:21 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

and in those 14 seasons won a total of seven playoff rounds, only once advancing past the second round (1990).

If you've read this far...seek help.

by ThePeerless on May 6, 2011 4:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

Which was their worst season of all of those. Go figure.

by katzistan on May 7, 2011 2:55 AM EDT up reply actions  

The good news: we’ve never blown a 3-2 lead that wasn’t previously a 3-1 lead. So there is a new way for us to fail next season.

by wickedwitch on May 6, 2011 1:55 PM EDT reply actions  

blowing a 3-0 lead is also an option which would make the top of the Capitol Building explode.

by SA-Town on May 6, 2011 2:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

And giving up a 5-goal third period lead in game 4. Let’s not forget that possibility. Lots to look forward to.

by katzistan on May 7, 2011 2:56 AM EDT up reply actions  

to lightening up an otherwise depressing post, I must that it appears that Jason Chimera has spotted Chemmy and PPP and SkinnyFish, Puckurgently out on the ice….he’s got that “I’m gonna kill you” look.

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by RedBirdie on May 6, 2011 2:01 PM EDT reply actions  

What about other teams?

These data are interesting but not entirely helpful unless compared to those from other franchises. Anybody have quick access to comparable data for other teams so a comparison could be made? Such a comparison would confirm if the Caps’ post season performance is an outlier or pretty much par for the course (save, of course, for not winning the Cup).

I’d expect most franchines to have comparable stories of blown leads and losses to lower seeds. Perhaps not for the elite franichises (and we sure what to be elite), but I’d expect the data to show that the Caps are in pretty good company in terms of sucking during the playoffs from a historic perspective.

I spent a lot of time reading local online newspapers for other hockey cities this year (the Vancouver Sun, for example). My impression from that arguably unscientific and anecdotal exercise is that every franchise has playoff ghosts and demons.

I’ll try to compile the data — what the hell, the day is shot already anyway.

Still worshipping at my Joe Juneau shrine. And a 4.0 in engineering, too.

by CAALawyer on May 6, 2011 2:12 PM EDT reply actions  

Data for Other Teams

Ok, I’m back. I looked at the identical data for one team: the Flyers, going back to 1996.

Year Round Opponent Opponent Higher Seed? Lead Outcome
2009/10 Finals Chicago Y Never 2-4
2008/9 Quarter Penn Y Never 2-4
2007/8 C. Finals Penn Y Never 1-4
2005/6 Quarter Sabres Y Never 2-4
2003/4 C. Finals TB Y Never 3-4
2002/3 Semi Sens Y Never 2-4
2001/2 Quarter Sens N 1-0 1-4
2000/1 Quarter Sabres N Never 2-4
1999/0 C. Finals NJ N 3-1 3-4
1998/99 Quarter Leafs Y 1-0 2-4
1997/98 Quarter Sabres N Never 1-4
1996/97 Finals Detroit N Never 0-4

So from these data, I conclude:

(1) The Flyers always lose to the higher seed when it matters.
(2) In five of the last twelve years, the Flyers have been the higher seed in the deciding round. In all five of those rounds, they lost. In two of those five rounds, they never had the lead. In one of those five rounds, they blew a 3-1 lead. In two of those five rounds, they blew a 1-0.

So I’d say the Caps are like the Flyers, right?

Statistics are slippery and it always helps to make comparisons.

Still worshipping at my Joe Juneau shrine. And a 4.0 in engineering, too.

by CAALawyer on May 6, 2011 2:44 PM EDT reply actions  

As much as it’s easier to look at losses only, the Flyers have also won plenty of series (especially against teams with better records in the last three seasons), which the Caps have not.

Not that the Flyers don’t have their own multitude of post season woes (losing SIX straight Stanley Cup Finals is not exactly fun), it just helps to look at more than the series the team has lost.

And I mean that for the Caps too. JP’s table, while striking, left out all the series the Caps have won, which makes it look like all they’ve ever done is lose.

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by Ben Rothenberg on May 6, 2011 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

All they’ve ever done is lose.

Sigh.

by Rob Parker on May 6, 2011 4:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

But it’s often postponed losing.

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Broad Street Hockey.

by Ben Rothenberg on May 6, 2011 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

Certainly not postponed for very long.

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by STLSpidey on May 6, 2011 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

Wow! That is a sobering table. In the 22 playoff appearances by the Caps, they have only managed to get past the 2nd round ONCE. I’d be very curious how that compares with other NHL teams. I can’t believe that this is the norm.

by mostholy2 on May 6, 2011 2:49 PM EDT reply actions  

Hey, now. It’s twice.

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by apk3000 on May 6, 2011 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ah, yes. I missed that ’89 – ’90 run to the third round.

by mostholy2 on May 6, 2011 3:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

I actually think it is the norm, or at least not out of the norm

Again, I’m just looking at individual franchies. Let’s take the storied Maple Leafs. Surely their playoff history over the past 22 appearances exceeds the Caps’, right?

2010/11 DNQ
2009/10 DNQ
2008/9 DNQ
2007/8 DNQ
2006/7 DNQ
2005/6 DNQ
2004/5 Season cancelled
2004/3 Lost in semi
2002/3 Lost in quart
2001/2 Lost in CF
2000/1 Lost in semi
1999/0 Lost in semi
1998/9 Lost in CF
1997/8 DNQ
1996/7 DNQ
1995/6 Lost in quart
1994/5 Lost in quart
1993/4 Lost in CF
1992/3 Lost in CF
1991/2 DNQ
1990/1 DNQ
1989/0 Lost in quart
1988/9 DNQ
1987/8 Lost in semi
1986/7 Lost in division finals
1985/6 Lost in division finals
1984/5 DNQ
1983/4 DNQ

I’m not sure what to make of the division final references. Anyway, it looks like they got past the second round four times over the same period; but they also appear to have substantially more DNQs than the Caps over the same period.

So, if I were a Leafs’ fan, I’d be posting:

“Please, I hope the Caps fire BB so we can hire him, and he’s from a great franchise, too. Since 1982, the Caps have only missed the playoffs seven times, while we (the Leafs) have missed it twice at much (thirteen times). And sure, we’ve gotten past the second round twice as much as the Caps (4 versus 2) over the same period, but that’s the law of small numbers at work. Looking at the data, one can only conclude that the Caps have been the far superior franchise in comparison to us over the past 30 years.”

Still worshipping at my Joe Juneau shrine. And a 4.0 in engineering, too.

by CAALawyer on May 6, 2011 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

Division Final = 2nd round. The previous playoff format was four teams from each division made the playoffs. You played your division rivals for two series before meeting the other division in the Conference Finals. That’s what the Caps’ Patrick Division banner celebrates, not finishing first in the division.

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by apk3000 on May 6, 2011 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

From your table, the Leafs definitely missed many more playoffs since ‘83 compared to the caps. But once there, it seems that they’ve had a better percentage of times to get past second round to the conference final or stanley cup round.

Leafs = 14 playoff appearances / 4 CF / 0 stanley cup appearances = 28.6%
Caps = 22 playoff appearances / 1 CF/ 1 stanley cup appearances = 9.1%

I guess neither team has it too great. I just am shocked at the fact we’ve had so many appearances and so few times getting past round 2.

by mostholy2 on May 6, 2011 3:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

Presenting the data your way makes more sense (percentages) than the way I had done it. I guess there is no getting around the fact that we stink at advancing. Oh well … now I’m depressed again.

Still worshipping at my Joe Juneau shrine. And a 4.0 in engineering, too.

by CAALawyer on May 6, 2011 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

It seems a gloom-and-doom now, but you get enough tries at something, statistics suggests you’ll get an outlier from your trend. I’m a bit encouraged from the table at how often we’ve been in the playoff’s.

Here’s hoping for a few outliers in our current trend of progressing past round 2 in the next few years and maybe we can get the Cup.

by mostholy2 on May 6, 2011 3:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

I’m a bit encouraged from the table at how often we’ve been in the playoff’s.

I’m not. See Blues, St. Louis: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_St._Louis_Blues_seasons

Qualified for the playoffs every season from 1980-2004, made it to the Western Conference Finals twice. Never made it to the Stanley Cup Finals.

Making the playoffs isn’t enough that odds suggest we’ll make it some day…we need to learn how to win in them.

by BradleyFightingVehicle on May 6, 2011 3:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

The Blues actually made it to the Stanley Cup Finals in the first two years of their existence, losing both times.

The famous Bobby Orr flying through the air shot was made against the Blues.

Life With Spidey -- a blog about sports, travel, work, family and fun.
Representing Caps fandom in the Gateway to the West.

by STLSpidey on May 6, 2011 4:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

And, of course, the St. Louis Blues are my second favorite hockey team. No Cups for either the Caps or Blues.

I’ve also dealt with some blown series leads in baseball by the St. Louis Cardinals, the pioneer of blowing 3 game to 1 edges and 2 game to 0 edges only to lose in 7. And the Orioles. But at least those 2 teams had won championships.

Rocking the Red for teams on the banks of the Potomac and at the Gateway Arch and Singing the Blues about Hockey.

by CapsFan75 on May 6, 2011 6:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

My mistake, I should have clarified that when I said never made it to the cup finals I meant during that 24 year stretch of playoff appearances from ’80 – ’04.

by BradleyFightingVehicle on May 6, 2011 7:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

yeah. That is pretty brutal.

Making the playoffs isn’t enough that odds suggest we’ll make it some day…we need to learn how to win in them.

Totally in agreement. Champions aren’t made by chance. Champions push through even when chance goes against them.

by mostholy2 on May 6, 2011 4:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

Exactly, and you’d figure that after three exits the core of this team would figure out how to push once you’re there.

Of course a fourth early exit later you’re wondering exactly what lessons they took after the first three times.

by BradleyFightingVehicle on May 6, 2011 7:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

I recall another team that had many playoff failures. Granted, it’s a team that most people here can’t stand. None other than the Philadelphia Phillies. The team was a franchise fraught with futility. During their first 75 years of existence, they had gotten to ONE World Series, in 1950, and proceeded to get swept by the resident dynasty — the Yankees. In 1964, they had a big lead in their league in September, 6 games with not many to go and proceeded to blow the lead and lost out to the St. Louis Cardinals (which is when I joined that bandwagon as a kid). Time passed. The Phillies, who were still a model of futility and usually were in last place, finally developed a contending team in 1974 but lost their division — until 1976 when they finally won a division but lost the League Championship series. They did the same for the next 2 years as well and were considered the ultimate chokers as a team. Finally, they won a playoff series in 1980 and went on to win the series. So no more choking Phillies! (I keep telling myself that maybe the Caps can do it.)

The current Caps, in a way, remind me of the Phillies of the late 70’s. They had a young core who kept having post-season issues.

Rocking the Red for teams on the banks of the Potomac and at the Gateway Arch and Singing the Blues about Hockey.

by CapsFan75 on May 6, 2011 8:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

Another way to look at it ....

Our playoff record reflects that we historically have always been in the playoffs. I guess it would be better to have missed the playoffs 29 times out of the past 30 years, and won the Cup in that one year. But still, given that it is damn hard to win the Cup, and given the fact that we are in the playoffs, year-after-year, I’d expect the data to show that, nearly all of the time, we lose in the playoffs. No surprise there.

Perhaps I’m Pollyannish. I just refuse to believe that things are so bleak. We certainly aren’t a doomed franchise in comparison to others. The only thing we haven’t (yet) done is win the Cup.

Still worshipping at my Joe Juneau shrine. And a 4.0 in engineering, too.

by CAALawyer on May 6, 2011 3:25 PM EDT reply actions  

If you were around in the Poile years, though, the grousing was that Pollin/Poile could only build a playoff contender, not a Cup contender. And that all of the playoff appearances meant the Caps weren’t making any high draft picks.

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by apk3000 on May 6, 2011 3:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

I guess it would be better to have missed the playoffs 29 times out of the past 30 years, and won the Cup in that one year.

That’s more or less a description of the Tampa Bay Lightning. Slight hyperbole, but as close as you’re gonna get.

by katzistan on May 7, 2011 3:00 AM EDT up reply actions  

CAR too. They either miss the playoffs or go to the ECF or further.

Sigh.

by Rob Parker on May 7, 2011 11:44 AM EDT up reply actions  

Curse Theory

Okay, I’ll throw a "curse" theory out there. It’s the "curse of Ron Webber"! Ron Webber HATED the toughness of the sport and broadcasted that way. It’s developed into a generation of wimpy fans and wimpy effort by the players. There are a few exceptions of course, but "wimpy" is the aura of the franchise and I blame Ron Webber for that!

by GOTEAM on May 6, 2011 3:28 PM EDT reply actions  

Right. A Hall-of-Fame broadcaster cursed this franchise. Get real.

Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world

by J.P. on May 6, 2011 3:29 PM EDT up reply actions   2 recs

Have you heard his broadcasts?

by GOTEAM on May 6, 2011 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

Only from about 1984 until he retired. That’s it.

But yeah, he really pussified hockey in D.C. Guys like May, Berube, Kaminski… all soft as a baby’s bottom. The fans here really can’t stand physical hockey either. It’s all Ron’s fault.

Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world

by J.P. on May 6, 2011 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Yeah, they were tough players, but the teams they were on all folded horribly except for 1998. I really do think Ron Webber had an influence on attracting wimpy fans. Hockey is a tough ass sport, and I love the Caps. I come from a competitive hockey background and I know the Caps are a wimpy franchise! Ask the wingers that keep brutalizing our defensemen. Ask any opposing teams fans that invade the Verizon Center. By the way, ask Ron Webber what he thinks about the toughness of the sport.

by GOTEAM on May 6, 2011 3:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

yes, it's all Ron Webber's fault

Pledge Drive 2010-2011: SO KIDS CAN!! Help build a playground

by RedBirdie on May 6, 2011 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

___

Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world

by J.P. on May 6, 2011 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

You guys are making my point exactly. Influenced by Ron Webber……….

by GOTEAM on May 6, 2011 3:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

I’m proud to say that my hockey fandom was profoundly influenced by Ron Weber.

Now head on back to CI before they realize you’ve gone missing and come looking for you.

Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world

by J.P. on May 6, 2011 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions   2 recs

like that village would notice if one of their idiots went missing.

Pledge Drive 2010-2011: SO KIDS CAN!! Help build a playground

by RedBirdie on May 6, 2011 4:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

Wait – your irked because someone made a comment with zero basis in fact? Damn.

That’s like saying there’s no basis for the identical Earth located on the other side of the sun.

Life With Spidey -- a blog about sports, travel, work, family and fun.
Representing Caps fandom in the Gateway to the West.

by STLSpidey on May 6, 2011 4:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

You’re right, no facts, just my opinion. I know the saying about bum holes and opinions too.

by GOTEAM on May 6, 2011 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

is the saying that they’re both full of sh*t? : )

by kingbonehead on May 6, 2011 9:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

I’ve been very specific about how I come to my conclusions. Do you have any specifics other than insults? What exactly did you like about Ron Webber?

by GOTEAM on May 7, 2011 8:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

you know, I sit by Ron (yes, in fact, we’re on the first name basis). not once as he ever admonished me for my admitted love of an excellent, bloody beat down.

Pledge Drive 2010-2011: SO KIDS CAN!! Help build a playground

by RedBirdie on May 6, 2011 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

I guess I deserve to be insulted. After all, I called most Caps fans wimps! Here’s a typical Ron Webber transmission as I recall. While giving mindless statistics while play continued he would say in a depressed sheepish voice "and play has halted because of fisticuffs" and he would break to a commercial. Longevity is admirable (in Ron Webbers case) but that doesn’t make a good voice of a franchise in my book.

by GOTEAM on May 6, 2011 4:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

What did you want him to do, stand up and start foaming at the mouth? “War! War! War!”?? You think he decided when commercials are anyway? Ever seen that little red light come on? Man, sorry, you don’t know what you’re talking about.

by katzistan on May 7, 2011 3:05 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Kolbe does play by play of fights. I think he does a good job. My beef with Ron Webber was that he was relentless with useless stats while play was going on, and he hated the rough stuff. He totally missed goals while talking about stats! He just sounded passive to me. Hockey is not a passive sport. Did he paint a mental picture of the game while it was going on? He didn’t in my book. All who have responded to my opinion have made my point that we have wimpy fans and Ron Webber was partially responsible. Guys that dress up their cats. Guys with handles like "redbirdie". Guys who whine. Guys replying with kitten photos that say "rawr. Guys with no substance, just insults. What exactly did you like about Ron Webber?

by GOTEAM on May 7, 2011 8:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ron Webber didn’t hate the toughness of the sport, he hated fighting. There is a difference.

Beyond that, if you think a radio broadcaster can somehow influence players, well, I think you’ve been sitting too close to your microwave. Pretty sure a guy who hasn’t called a game in 13 years has had zero influence on the on ice-behaviour of current players considering those players were still looking to grow their first pubes when Webber last cracked a mic.

Just trying to capture the spirit of the thing...

by dcsportsfan1 on May 6, 2011 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

There’s no question in my mind that fans have an influence on a team. Unless a coach can separate the fan base from the team mentally. Just like Ron Wilson did for a short while. That team had incredible unity. I believe that separating the 1998 team from the Caps Center and having completely new uniforms helped get the team away mentally from it’s horrible history and wimpy fans.
There’s no question in my mind that Ron Webber influenced at least half the current season ticket holders into being wimpy fans.
Caps fans support their team with their pocket books, not during a game or series when adversity shows itself.

by GOTEAM on May 6, 2011 5:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

Un-rec. No way. Rob Weber (one ‘b’, please) was one of the greatest people ever associated with the franchise. So many of us grew up listening to him in the days before cable, or before our families could afford it. He was ignominiously laid off, and never should have been. Ron Weber is one of the reasons many of us are fans.

by katzistan on May 7, 2011 3:01 AM EDT up reply actions   2 recs

I have no way of knowing, but I’m sure Ron Webber is a very good man. He just wasn’t my style. I listened to him because so many away games were not televised.

by GOTEAM on May 7, 2011 8:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

Thank you

That helps. And it means (I hope) my math above is right, as I counted the division finals as the second round (by dumb luck, not intellect.)

Still worshipping at my Joe Juneau shrine. And a 4.0 in engineering, too.

by CAALawyer on May 6, 2011 3:29 PM EDT reply actions  

You know you can reply to a comment directly and not at the bottom of all comments so as to make the converation clearer, right?

Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world

by J.P. on May 6, 2011 3:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't belong to the Mensa Society

Yes, I’ll try to do better, and I’m sorry for screwing up. (Sometimes when I click “reply,” I don’t get the “reply” dialogue box, but it is almost certainly operator error on my end.) Thanks for running a great site, JP. I’ve learned more about hockey here than at the rink watching games.

Still worshipping at my Joe Juneau shrine. And a 4.0 in engineering, too.

by CAALawyer on May 6, 2011 3:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

No worries – just trying to lend a hand (and thanks for the kind words!).

Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world

by J.P. on May 6, 2011 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

16 times in 22 tries they had leads in series. How many decades can one franchise go exhibiting no killer instinct? As far as playoffs go, we are about to end the third decade…

Twice in 36 seasons this franchise has advanced past the second round. Neil might have the Monte Carlo machine to spin the numbers, but a club should be able to do better by mere accident.

One and done, or two is all they can do.

If you've read this far...seek help.

by ThePeerless on May 6, 2011 4:23 PM EDT reply actions  

Exactly one series in franchise history beyond the second round in which they’ve won even a single game. Remind me why we do this to ourselves…

Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world

by J.P. on May 6, 2011 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

18-31 in playoff games since the 1998 Stanley Cup run.

If you've read this far...seek help.

by ThePeerless on May 6, 2011 4:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

And yet…it only takes one magical run to forgive all past mistakes.

Everything ends badly...otherwise it wouldn't end.

by Davethecapsfan on May 6, 2011 6:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ask myself this every goddamned year.

by katzistan on May 7, 2011 3:06 AM EDT up reply actions  

make it stop

The keyboard is mightier.

by breed16 on May 6, 2011 5:23 PM EDT reply actions  

Can someone send an exorcist to my house? I’ve rooted for the Caps and the Blues. Maybe I’m the common element.

Lived in Ottawa for a few years, as a little kid. Note, the Senators’ track record.

My family moved to the Bay Area during my adulthood. Note: the Sharks’ track record.

So, guess I’m the common element.

Rocking the Red for teams on the banks of the Potomac and at the Gateway Arch and Singing the Blues about Hockey.

by CapsFan75 on May 6, 2011 6:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

Really A Bleak Picture

Considering that some of us old farts have been waiting three and a half decades to see the Caps hoist the Cup, Probably a few of us (including myself) are thinking we may not see it in our lifetime. But hope springs eternal as the poet said.

"Some days I just sits and thinks. Some days I just sits and watches the Caps-I'm retired."

by ExPatCapFan on May 7, 2011 2:59 AM EDT reply actions  

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