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Monday Caps Clips: Back to Work

WASHINGTON, DC - DECEMBER 09: Goaltender James Reimer #34, team captain Dion Phaneuf #3 and Matt Frattin #39 of the Toronto Maple Leafs defend against Nicklas Backstrom #19 of the Washington Capitals at the Verizon Center on December 9, 2011 in Washington, DC. The Capitals defeated the Maple Leafs 4-2.  (Photo by Bruce Bennett/Getty Images)

Your savory breakfast links:

  • After a day off on Sunday, the Caps will prepare for Tuesday against the Flyers and then a Winnipeg-Colorado roadie.
  • The Week That Was, Volume 10. [Peerless]
    • Picking the Caps Top Six. It's easier when you can actually see progress. [KOL]
    • Look for our Ups and Downs coming your way at 11.
  • Winning puts teh fun back in the room. [WashTimes]
  • Alex Ovechkin, shotblocka. [WashTimes]
  • In which The Pride of Washington and Greene Counties, PA admits he didn't do the basic research for his assertions (but provides no explanation of where he did, in fact, base his assertions) and issues an apology for his failure, then goes on to stick to his not-smoking guns. Also, the discovery that Russia apparently has Internet and pays attention to the ramblings of a humble scribe from Western Pennsylvania. Who knew? Good going, John Steigerwald. [Observer-Reporter]
  • Say hey Olie Kolzig, Sibley Hospital Magazine's Fall 2011 cover-boy. On page 2, you'll meet Dr. Benjamin Shaffer, Olie's orthopedic surgeon. [Sibley On Health, with a stick tap to sk84fun_dc]
  • Reflecting, sorta, on last year's trade of Tomas Fleischmann and the contract extension for Alexander Semin. [Power Scout Hockey]
  • Finally, y'know when the teevee broadcast of a Caps game makes you want to yell and throw things at it? This blog is keeping track. [Action on the Ice]

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Comments

Display:

“educated presumption?” That is an anagram for “A nut uppermost…decide.”

If you've read this far...seek help.

by ThePeerless on Dec 12, 2011 6:46 AM EST reply actions  

Let me guess. Steigenwald. I’m still debating whether to read.

Knuble: "I am what I am. I play well with good players."

by capsyoungguns on Dec 12, 2011 8:13 AM EST up reply actions  

Don’t bother. I read and here’s the synopsis:

1) I didn’t do any research about Ovechkin and maybe I’m wrong, and I apologize.

2) That said It’s still “Guilty until proven innocent”

3) I like turtles

4) It doesn’t matter what’s actually true; since my opinion is the truth.

Guy’s an [Avery]… don’t click and help fund his newspaper’s ad revenue.

Occasionally reporting from Section 421 of the Verizon Center...

by MikeL-Pivonka on Dec 12, 2011 10:26 AM EST up reply actions  

Thanks. Betcha the lawyers warned him so he’s attempting to hide behind a veil of “just my opinion” but can’t resist throwing more gasoline on his fire.

Knuble: "I am what I am. I play well with good players."

by capsyoungguns on Dec 12, 2011 2:27 PM EST up reply actions  

Hopefully Jim Johnson’s works w/ Shultz pays off. I’m sure that the asst coaches worked w/ Eminger when he was having problems with his game, but you didn’t hear about it much. Later, when it was obvious that Bruce wasn’t going to play him, you didn’t hear much from the club about that either.
Now, Johnson put out the clubs observations, and how they plan on improving those deficiencies.
Schultz has played 344 regular season NHL games. Defensemen, esp gangly 6’6" guys, take awhile to get it. I have seen 400 games being the mark when a guy can be put in veteran status. Think of how much improved Erskine has been since the start of last season, when he passed 400 games. Schultz wasn’t awful before, it’s just that the new defensive system asks for more mobility. He can work this out. The d-corp will have more injuries, he will be needed.
So, I like what I’ve seen from the coaching staff so far. I have much more hope for April/May/June? success than I did 2 weeks ago.

by Upstate NY on Dec 12, 2011 7:40 AM EST reply actions  

I've seen this before (Semin vs Flash)

On the comparison of Semin to Fleischmann, yes, Fleischmann certainly looks better at this juncture but it brings back memories. In November 2009, that was also the case. Fleischmann had come back from the Deep Vein Thrombosis that had delayed his start to the season but was red hot at that particular time. He was on the top line and scoring goals like crazy while Ovi was out. Meanwhile, Semin, who was bothered by a bad wrist, was not being effective (and was finally shut down when Ovi returned.) I recall at least one blogger who recommended that they offer Flash Semin’s then salary (and vice versa). Flash may have even passed Semin in goals at one point but my memory is vague.

When the season ended, Semin had 40 goals and Flash had topped 20 but didn’t top 30. (Okay, I know there’s no chance that Semin will top 30 goals this year, much less 40 but I still hope he’ll turn it around. ) And the jury’s still out on whether Flash can sustain his high productivity for the entire season.

Rocking the Red for teams on the banks of the Potomac and at the Gateway Arch and Singing the Blues about Hockey.

by CapsFan75 on Dec 12, 2011 7:42 AM EST reply actions  

The big thing to remember when comparing Fla. Flash and DC Flash...

…is that he has much more icetime with the Panthers than he ever got with the Capitals. So far this year, his ATOI is 19:25, compared to his high of 16:02 with the Caps in 2009-2010. His ES time is 15:20 and PP is 4:00, compared with 12:18 ES and 2:32 PP that same year with the Caps.

Fleischmann had limited time playing with the Caps, seeing how he was usually blocked at LW behind Ovechkin and Laich. He also didn’t have a clearly defined role, given the experiments with centering the second line in parts of two of his 3.5 seasons on the Capitals. In Florida, he’s a top-line line wing. It’s apples and oranges.

by Forsch31 on Dec 12, 2011 9:43 AM EST up reply actions  

Although if he’s capable of putting up 80 points a year as a top line player then maybe it was a personnel error by the Caps.

He isn’t.

Please, call me F&B.

by Rob Parker on Dec 12, 2011 9:45 AM EST up reply actions   2 recs

Don’t you think after a point that attitude, silly penalties, work ethic out-trump talent? Semin is a top-20 talent in the league. He plays like it some of the time.

Fleischmann is a top-50 talent in the league and you at least know what you’re going to get out of him (and sometimes be pleasantly surprised).

by RCheli on Dec 12, 2011 10:08 AM EST up reply actions  

Top 20 is better than top 50. That’s all I need to know.

In this example, if Semin wasn’t better than Fleischmann, he wouldn’t be top 20 while Flash is top 50. Better players are better.

"Fais gros comme moi!" - Alex Ovechkin

by Gould Old Days on Dec 12, 2011 10:24 AM EST up reply actions  

Talent is not in a vacuum, though.

by RCheli on Dec 12, 2011 11:01 AM EST up reply actions  

and you at least know what you’re going to get out of him (and sometimes be pleasantly surprised).

That’s a false statement, and if it’s a true statement it’s not a good one. What we know about Flash is that he has a trend of disappearing in the second half and being a flake in the playoffs. If that’s what you “know you’re going to get” then FLA can have him. And if you don’t “know that you’re going to get that” then he’s just inconsistent.

I’d love to move Semin. I would hate to move Semin and have Flash be the return package, especially when contract status is considered.

Please, call me F&B.

by Rob Parker on Dec 12, 2011 11:51 AM EST up reply actions  

It looks like Fleischamann’s inconsistency is based almost completely on shooting percentage. For the last few seasons, he’s been shooting a ridiculous 20% in the first few months of the season, and then a not-so-great 9% from February on. Is this luck?

by RCheli on Dec 12, 2011 12:02 PM EST up reply actions  

The 20% sure is.

Please, call me F&B.

by Rob Parker on Dec 12, 2011 12:03 PM EST up reply actions  

Right. But so is the 9%, too.

by RCheli on Dec 12, 2011 12:05 PM EST up reply actions  

The 9% is regression. It is the other shoe dropping. It’s much closer to “luck neutral” than 20%.

"You do that, you go to the box, you know. Two minutes, by yourself, you know and you feel shame" -Denis Lemieux

by leacha on Dec 12, 2011 12:23 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Yes and no. In media veritas est, more likely.

Geeks of All Nations, Compile!

by AMusingFool on Dec 12, 2011 12:41 PM EST up reply actions  

So many unknowns with Flash’s clotting condition. Maybe the annual fade was due to improper treatment. Maybe now he’s treating it properly and it won’t be a factor in a long season.

Maybe.

You perhaps knew me better as "Your Nation's Capital." Same great commentary, now with 100% more transparency!

by EmilyB on Dec 12, 2011 12:44 PM EST up reply actions  

9% seems a lot closer to league average than 20%, doesn’t it?

Please, call me F&B.

by Rob Parker on Dec 12, 2011 1:00 PM EST up reply actions  

Sure, but not for a top-6 forward. You have to add in defensive shooting percentage into that.

by RCheli on Dec 12, 2011 1:03 PM EST up reply actions  

League average shooting for Forwards is just above 10%. I’ll stick with my claim that 20% is further from what you’d expect than 9%.

Please, call me F&B.

by Rob Parker on Dec 12, 2011 1:07 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

You’re only shooting closer to 20% than 9% if shoot above 14.5%. Looking at H-R, maybe Flash is right in the middle? At the very least, more PP time should lead to a higher shooting percentage.

Red Line Station and @RedArmyLine, featuring coverage of the most frustrating team in the NHL
I believe in next year.

by red army line on Dec 12, 2011 1:28 PM EST up reply actions  

It looks like Fleischamann’s inconsistency is based almost completely on shooting percentage. For the last few seasons, he’s been shooting a ridiculous 20% in the first few months of the season, and then a not-so-great 9% from February on. Is this luck?

Luck? No. An indictment as to the way he plays? I think so.

Flash is a guy that comes out of the gate hot because he starts the season going to the net, working the corners, and generally playing the type of physical game that makes fans think: “Wow, he’s finally turned the corner!”. At that point, his shooting percentage is high because he is shooting from high percentage areas.

Then, something happens. The crease becomes off limits, he becomes allergic to contact, and he is separated from pucks with ease by opposing defenders. All of his shots tend to come from the perimeter, lowering his shooting percentage as a result. So I don’t think it’s luck that his shooting percentage falls off a cliff, I think it’s the result of the way his game changes as the season progresses.

I don’t know why his season always seems to play out this way. Maybe the adrenaline associated with starting a new season carries him for a month or two. Maybe nagging injuries start to catch up to him as the season wears on. Or maybe his give-a-fuck level just drops, I have no idea. What I do know is this is a movie we see every year with Flash, and it always has the same ending.

by HockeyGoalie29 on Dec 12, 2011 1:47 PM EST up reply actions  

Not sure what to make of this regular-season vs. playoff rationale. We don’t sign a player who is tracking a point per game now because he fades in the playoff, but then commit to a player who plays ‘big’ in the playoffs but who hasn’t scored a point for 15 games in the regular season (Ward)? To what extent does this make a mockery of the regular season?

by Wilderthing on Dec 12, 2011 1:14 PM EST up reply actions  

That’s assuming that the Caps signed Ward just because he scored in the playoffs last year. I don’t think they did.

Release the Mackan!

by Killer_Carlson on Dec 12, 2011 1:15 PM EST up reply actions  

Agreed. If Flash isn’t scoring, he isn’t doing anything. With Ward, his job is defense, cycling, forechecking, playing physical, and wearing down the opposition. Any offense is just a bonus.

by Murshawursha on Dec 12, 2011 1:20 PM EST up reply actions  

Understood he has value for his defense and, to be fair, that needs to be included in his overall assessment. But, still, 0 points for a top 9 forward? I suppose the numbers crunchers could compare total value with goals prevented included. I certainly don’t want to diminish that as a possibility. But, Flash’s ppg looks awfully good now with our top guns scoring below par.

by Wilderthing on Dec 12, 2011 1:27 PM EST up reply actions  

The Caps tried the “Flash” model for years. It failed. Now they’ll try the “Ward” model. Let’s give it a chance before passing judgment.

Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world

by J.P. on Dec 12, 2011 1:30 PM EST up reply actions   2 recs

I’d go so far as to suggest (albeit a little baselessly) the only reason why Flash’s ES GA/60 is so low is because the line he’s on is producing at an insane clip. Put him elsewhere, and he’s back to upwards of 2.75 per (Ward’s at 2.49 now, for what it’s worth).

"My favorite fan base in D.C. Is United's. Period. The end." - Steinberg

Keep United in DC. A Fair Deal at RFK, and a Pathway to a Stadium for a team loyal to the city.

by Bald Pollack on Dec 12, 2011 1:42 PM EST up reply actions  

Well, without Green, I think you could make a good case this team falls in four to Philly in 2008, seven to the Rangers in 2009 (or six to the Penguins), seven to the Habs in 2010, and plays an extra couple of games against the Rangers in 2011.

Red Line Station and @RedArmyLine, featuring coverage of the most frustrating team in the NHL
I believe in next year.

by red army line on Dec 12, 2011 11:56 PM EST up reply actions  

I don’t think he’s capable of 80 points per year. I see him as a better version of Zednik—an all-offense winger with playmaking ability. In my mind, he’s a good complimentary winger, not anywhere near elite. I’m just saying he’s getting far more opportunity in Florida (and Colorado), so the increased scoring shouldn’t come as a surprise.

The only way it’s a mistake is in salary cap management. If Flash’s top 6 goal-scoring average is actually closer to 30 goals than 20, then it’s a mistake to be paying Semin an extra $2.2 million for less than 10 more goals a season. But I seriously doubt Fleischmann would be getting 4 minutes of PP on the Caps even if he replaced Semin.

by Forsch31 on Dec 12, 2011 10:38 AM EST up reply actions  

Two days in a row…

Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world

by J.P. on Dec 12, 2011 10:43 AM EST up reply actions  

This was an easier setup for the joke though. I like the idea of Flash walking around the locker room blowing sunshine up everyone’s butt.

Unleash the Apathy.

by D'ohboy on Dec 12, 2011 10:59 AM EST up reply actions  

That's me...

the tee to everybody’s ball.

by Forsch31 on Dec 12, 2011 11:12 AM EST up reply actions  

I see him as a better version of Zednik

I read this as “better version of Zetterburg” and nearly spit the cereal I was eating

"Fais gros comme moi!" - Alex Ovechkin

by Gould Old Days on Dec 12, 2011 11:00 AM EST up reply actions  

A bit OT

With all this flash talk … I couldn’t help myself

Be Utterly Facinating @ http://www.thirstdc.com

by TheFuryUnleashed on Dec 12, 2011 11:22 AM EST up reply actions   2 recs

Good thing we didn’t trade him to The Big Apple then.

"A picture is worth a thousand words. For moving pictures we manage to shorten it to one or two."

by Dimagus on Dec 12, 2011 11:27 AM EST up reply actions  

If Flash’s top 6 goal-scoring average is actually closer to 30 goals than 20, then it’s a mistake to be paying Semin an extra $2.2 million for less than 10 more goals a season.

Even with that, bad a number as plus-minus is, Semin is a consistent plus while Flash is a consistent minus, and I’m not seeing the huge difference in usage, really, that would explain away the change to something other than “Semin is a much better player at both ends of the ice.”

Red Line Station and @RedArmyLine, featuring coverage of the most frustrating team in the NHL
I believe in next year.

by red army line on Dec 12, 2011 11:32 AM EST up reply actions  

Flash is a +17 on the 2011-2012 season so far, and managed to be +1 yesterday in a 6-goals-against game.. Not too shabby.

You perhaps knew me better as "Your Nation's Capital." Same great commentary, now with 100% more transparency!

by EmilyB on Dec 12, 2011 11:44 AM EST up reply actions  

With Fleischmann’s 13% on-ice shooting and .950 sv% behind him, especially playing against top lines with Weiss and Versteeg, and with Semin’s on-ice shooting at 6.8% and sv% at .900 while not playing top lines, I don’t think it’ll last. Fleischmann may still end up ahead of Semin in plus-minus because of this lead he’s built up and Semin’s inevitable injuries giving him less time to catch up, but if Flash is in double digits I’ll be surprised.

Not sure the Panthers are “ripe for a fall” but I do think some of their players are.

Red Line Station and @RedArmyLine, featuring coverage of the most frustrating team in the NHL
I believe in next year.

by red army line on Dec 12, 2011 12:01 PM EST up reply actions  

The Caps have a better winning percentage than the Panthers, but sit six points behind them in the Southeast.

The Habs have as many points as the Caps, despite winning just 40% of their games.

Nice loser point, Gary.

Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world

by J.P. on Dec 12, 2011 8:07 AM EST reply actions  

Of course, the Caps can look in the mirror and place as much blame on themselves as the loser point. Particularly in the head to head against FLA. Imagine if they got either competent goaltending or decided to really show up before the third period.

Please, call me F&B.

by Rob Parker on Dec 12, 2011 8:57 AM EST up reply actions  

Not the point.

Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world

by J.P. on Dec 12, 2011 9:13 AM EST via iPhone app up reply actions  

I’m with JP on this one. The loser point sucks. The Caps have 2 in hand against Fla and even if they win both and have more wins than Fla they will still be below them in the standings. Explain how that makes sense.

by Beakers Lab on Dec 12, 2011 9:18 AM EST up reply actions  

Well even before Bettman teams got a point for a tie, so you’d have to demonstrate that FLA isn’t getting points they would have gotten anyway (i.e. are they losing in the SO more often? How many SO wins do the Caps have compared to that?). And these rules have been around for a while, it’s the lay of the land and everyone knows it. When the Caps had something to do that was in their control they rolled over for 40 minutes. They win that game and that changes the entire picture. And they have 5 more chances to slow down the steaming locomotive that is Tomas Fleischmann. No doubt the man is on pace for an MVP year and surely won’t see any production set backs. The Caps have their work cut out for them.

Please, call me F&B.

by Rob Parker on Dec 12, 2011 9:28 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

My point isn’t that the Caps have or haven’t taken care of their business, but rather that it’s silly that the standings are set up in a way that allows a team with a vastly inferior winning percentage to compete. Like I noted, the Habs have won 40% of their games and have as many points as the Caps (who are at 54%, and would be at 50% even if they lost their two in-hand games).

Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world

by J.P. on Dec 12, 2011 9:39 AM EST via iPhone app up reply actions  

FLA is +3 in Bettman Points. 1 SOW and 2 OTLs.

Caps are +1 in Bettman Points, 1 SOW.

Please, call me F&B.

by Rob Parker on Dec 12, 2011 9:43 AM EST up reply actions  

Both teams are two games over .500. If this was baseball, the Caps would be 0 games back in the standings. (And yes, if my aunt had balls she’d be my uncle.) But they’re not 0 games back, even if they win their in-hand games.

Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world

by J.P. on Dec 12, 2011 9:47 AM EST via iPhone app up reply actions  

Yeah, I guess it’s just new for Caps fans to be complaining about it because we’ve either seen our team way out of contention or way out in front for the last few years.

Please, call me F&B.

by Rob Parker on Dec 12, 2011 9:49 AM EST up reply actions  

In fairness to me, I’ve been complaining about it since Day 1.

Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world

by J.P. on Dec 12, 2011 9:52 AM EST via iPhone app up reply actions  

So do you prefer a 3-2-1-0 or get rid of the OTL point?

Please, call me F&B.

by Rob Parker on Dec 12, 2011 9:55 AM EST up reply actions  

First choice is the latter – not sure why losing should be rewarded. But the most important thing, IMO, is to have all games result in the same number of total standings points awarded, be it 2 or 3.

Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world

by J.P. on Dec 12, 2011 9:58 AM EST via iPhone app up reply actions   4 recs

The right choice is to play the OT 4 on 4 and if it ends in a tie, it’s a tie!! Nothing wrong with tie games. Both teams get a point.

Occasionally reporting from Section 421 of the Verizon Center...

by MikeL-Pivonka on Dec 12, 2011 10:28 AM EST up reply actions  

But what about Sportscenter!

"You do that, you go to the box, you know. Two minutes, by yourself, you know and you feel shame" -Denis Lemieux

by leacha on Dec 12, 2011 10:31 AM EST up reply actions  

Unless Tebow is in the shootout, no one cares.

Comrades, leave me here a little, while as yet 't is early morn:
Leave me here, and when you want me, sound upon the bugle-horn

by sydtron on Dec 12, 2011 10:34 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

My high school coach once called a time-out with two minutes left in the third period and the game tied 2-2 and said, “Nobody likes ties, ties are like kissing your sister,” at which point he proceeded to pull the goalie and put on an extra attacker. We scored with 1:15 to go and won 3-2. Balls-to-the-wall hockey ftw.

by Murshawursha on Dec 12, 2011 10:35 AM EST up reply actions  

Now there’s some funny stuff.

It's all wrong, but it's all right.

by OldPhil on Dec 12, 2011 12:51 PM EST up reply actions  

In West Virginia...

…everything’s relative.

(Old Maryland Football joke… now the team itself is the joke…)

Occasionally reporting from Section 421 of the Verizon Center...

by MikeL-Pivonka on Dec 12, 2011 1:46 PM EST up reply actions  

Losses, however, are like camping trips with Sandusky.

Not sure I’d play it that wide open on a consistent basis.

Patron saint of quality footwear.

by fat_daddyo on Dec 12, 2011 10:46 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

This wouldn’t significantly alter what JP is talking about. The Caps could still have a higher winning percentage and be behind FLA in the standings if FLA was tying games left and right.

Unleash the Apathy.

by D'ohboy on Dec 12, 2011 10:37 AM EST up reply actions  

Well, yes and no. I hesitate to overlay any revised standings scheme on games that have been played with markedly different incentives.

Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world

by J.P. on Dec 12, 2011 10:39 AM EST up reply actions  

I like the shootout (Oh no! Heaven forbid! Skills should decide a game that’s a test of skill! Let’s do 3-on-3 shinny to decide games instead, because that’s “real hockey.”).

I don’t think ties are the answer to all problems, seeing as teams used to get a point for the tie, and overtime hockey (before the loser point) was godawfully boring even at 4v4.

The answer is simple. Keep the shootout, but acknowledge that it shouldn’t count as much as winning in regulation. If you win in regulation, you get 3 points. Lose in regulation and you get zero. If the game is tied after 60, both teams get a point. Win in OT or the shootout and get an extra point. Every game is worth 3 points.

Unleash the Apathy.

by D'ohboy on Dec 12, 2011 10:45 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Clearly preferable to what we have now.

Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world

by J.P. on Dec 12, 2011 10:46 AM EST up reply actions  

3-2-1 is the way to go which means we won’t see that under Bettman

by Beakers Lab on Dec 12, 2011 11:28 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

You do realize that Bettman is employed by the owners right? If the owners want the 3-2-1 system they’ll get it. But the NHL won’t go to 3-2-1 until the owners decide to. Bettman isn’t this monolithic figure that can unilaterally change any NHL rule as he sees fit.

Release the Mackan!

by Killer_Carlson on Dec 12, 2011 1:25 PM EST up reply actions  

You’re an idiot. You probably don’t think the President unilaterally sets policy either.

Please, call me F&B.

by Rob Parker on Dec 12, 2011 1:33 PM EST up reply actions  

Can I come to your guys’ Thanksgiving one year? Please?

by RCheli on Dec 12, 2011 1:35 PM EST up reply actions  

You’re going to have to get on the waiting list for tickets.

Release the Mackan!

by Killer_Carlson on Dec 12, 2011 2:19 PM EST up reply actions  

Only after the nude oil wrestling, and the bracket goes through me and Gould Old Days.

Unleash the Apathy.

by D'ohboy on Dec 12, 2011 2:39 PM EST up reply actions  

And stops there

"Fais gros comme moi!" - Alex Ovechkin

by Gould Old Days on Dec 12, 2011 4:03 PM EST up reply actions  

The only thought I have against 3-2-1 is all the old people saying “That will make the records meaningless!”

They have a point, but I don’t really care. More accurate standings for a modern game.

Proud member of the Popsicle Division of the Cupcake Conference.

by Bman21212 on Dec 12, 2011 12:37 PM EST up reply actions  

But the old records are meaningless now the with added point to OT and shootout losses.

by RCheli on Dec 12, 2011 12:41 PM EST up reply actions  

Yes, but even with that not all the records have been broken thanks to the salary cap creating league parity.

Proud member of the Popsicle Division of the Cupcake Conference.

by Bman21212 on Dec 12, 2011 12:46 PM EST up reply actions  

Plus, it’s easier to do analysis when you can say, a priori, that a league-average team will have, say, 123 points, rather than waiting until the end of the season to figure out what league-average is.

Geeks of All Nations, Compile!

by AMusingFool on Dec 12, 2011 12:43 PM EST up reply actions  

You truly are a Latin king today.

by RCheli on Dec 12, 2011 12:45 PM EST up reply actions  

Sorry, latinus rex.

by RCheli on Dec 12, 2011 12:47 PM EST up reply actions  

Every so often, all those years of Catholic schooling pay off.

Geeks of All Nations, Compile!

by AMusingFool on Dec 12, 2011 1:15 PM EST up reply actions  

goodness, if only there were some way to convert those old standings to the 3-2-1 system, so you could at least do an apples-to-apples comparison.

Alas…

"Fais gros comme moi!" - Alex Ovechkin

by Gould Old Days on Dec 12, 2011 4:04 PM EST up reply actions  

Still say...

Reg. and OT wins count as 2 points.
SO wins count as 1 point.
Loser gets nothing.

by Forsch31 on Dec 12, 2011 12:45 PM EST up reply actions  

That’s only believed in southwest Pa.

Occasionally reporting from Section 421 of the Verizon Center...

by MikeL-Pivonka on Dec 12, 2011 10:29 AM EST up reply actions  

Related: I watched the first two periods of the NYR/FLA game yesterday.

Theo looked pretty leaky, at long last.

Patron saint of quality footwear.

by fat_daddyo on Dec 12, 2011 11:01 AM EST up reply actions  

He didn’t seem to get much help from his teammates either.

Look at me, Dustin! I'm a F%^king Icon!

by highslot84 on Dec 12, 2011 11:02 AM EST up reply actions  

I actually had a dream last night that after the realignment was completed, they were also going to go to a 3-point game for everything.

by RCheli on Dec 12, 2011 10:09 AM EST up reply actions  

Seems like every year someone is getting doinked like this.

We weren’t complaining when the Caps were picking up OT wins with 4 – on – 3 PPs early in the 7-0 run, though.

Patron saint of quality footwear.

by fat_daddyo on Dec 12, 2011 10:45 AM EST up reply actions  

There was an short blurb at the end of an article a few days ago (not in Clips nor on Bleacher Report) that said Backstrom shouldn’t be an All Star because he has a negative Plus Minus.

It wasn’t on NHL/ESPN either.

I tried Googling it but no luck. Anyone know what I am referring to or has a link?

"Shots aren't the important thing. Scoring chances are way more important than shots." - Bruce Boudreau

See my work in the Washington Post and on ESPN Insider.

Follow me on Twitter @ngreenberg

by NGreenberg on Dec 12, 2011 8:40 AM EST reply actions  

Have you checked The Observer-Reporter?

Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world

by J.P. on Dec 12, 2011 8:42 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Not possible, because that would mean that actual statistics were used in that rag.

Nice guys finish first, but sometimes the season is awfully long.
Follow me on Twitter.

by STLSpidey on Dec 12, 2011 8:44 AM EST up reply actions  

You mean ROIDS/60 isn’t a good determination for +/-?

by jopierce on Dec 12, 2011 8:45 AM EST via iPhone app up reply actions   1 recs

I would like to promote a new statistic called the Steigerwald Velocity:

(# of unsubstantiated sources) * (irrelevance of argument) * (# of mentions of Pittsburgh sports rivals) = velocity with which an article is published.

Shorthand this is ====> US * IA * MPSR = SV

Nice guys finish first, but sometimes the season is awfully long.
Follow me on Twitter.

by STLSpidey on Dec 12, 2011 9:02 AM EST up reply actions  

So’s Anze Kopitar. Think he’s going to be left off? James Neal has 17 goals and is even. Is that disqualifying?

If you've read this far...seek help.

by ThePeerless on Dec 12, 2011 8:52 AM EST up reply actions  

Unless you’re preparing to take the author to task, it doesn’t really sound like it’s worth linking to, does it? Plenty of time for +/- to turn around for Nick.

Cross check and all call.

by bigonetimer on Dec 12, 2011 9:20 AM EST up reply actions  

I am rather concerned that Backstrom (-6), Ovechkin (-8) and Semin (-6) are all so far in minus territory, though. And that among them they have a combined total of five plus games in their last 21 combined man-games. It is not where we have become accustomed to seeing them.

If you've read this far...seek help.

by ThePeerless on Dec 12, 2011 9:26 AM EST up reply actions  

And if it keeps up we’ll see at least one of those guys in a place we aren’t accustomed to seeing him.

Please, call me F&B.

by Rob Parker on Dec 12, 2011 9:29 AM EST up reply actions  

I’d bet against that.

Please, call me F&B.

by Rob Parker on Dec 12, 2011 9:50 AM EST up reply actions  

Yeah wouldn’t wanna trade our other soft Euro to the best team in the Southeast.

by Kolzilla on Dec 12, 2011 10:10 AM EST up reply actions  

I don’t think a guy like Semin gets moved in-division very often, certainly not to a team you are chasing.

And even ignoring the divisional aspect, Dale Tallon doesn’t seem like the kind of guy that is going to clamor to get Semin on his squad.

Please, call me F&B.

by Rob Parker on Dec 12, 2011 11:54 AM EST up reply actions  

Agreed that it’s an unlikely destination, but ultimately if a good deal is there for the taking I don’t think GMGM turns it down. And at this rate I have a hard time believing Semin isn’t on the block.

by Kolzilla on Dec 12, 2011 1:14 PM EST up reply actions  

I’m sure Semin is on the block, but he’s sell-low and GMGM isn’t going to give him away.

Please, call me F&B.

by Rob Parker on Dec 12, 2011 1:20 PM EST up reply actions  

And the in-division consideration is lessened because they won’t be in our division much longer

"Fais gros comme moi!" - Alex Ovechkin

by Gould Old Days on Dec 12, 2011 4:05 PM EST up reply actions  

That’s a good point. But they will make the playoffs this year and we don’t want Semin burning us!

Please, call me F&B.

by Rob Parker on Dec 12, 2011 4:16 PM EST up reply actions  

Playoffs are top 8. Division don’t enter into it much. At least, not if both DC and FLA are top 8.

"Fais gros comme moi!" - Alex Ovechkin

by Gould Old Days on Dec 12, 2011 4:27 PM EST up reply actions  

From the Ups and Downs we’re running at 11, Backstrom has been on the ice for 12 of the last 24 goals the Caps have allowed. That’s gotta change.

Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world

by J.P. on Dec 12, 2011 9:41 AM EST via iPhone app up reply actions  

does that include PPG against?

Cross check and all call.

by bigonetimer on Dec 12, 2011 9:43 AM EST up reply actions  

It does. All goals.

Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world

by J.P. on Dec 12, 2011 9:48 AM EST via iPhone app up reply actions  

It is concerning, and definitely speaks to getting dominated 5 on 5 so far this year, which is new ground for these guys. And it’ll be tougher (or take longer) to get back to ‘even’ under Hunts’ shift in strategy.

Cross check and all call.

by bigonetimer on Dec 12, 2011 9:42 AM EST up reply actions  

Caps are top 10 in 5 on 5 goals for and bottom 6 in 5 on 5 goals against. Things are happening!

Please, call me F&B.

by Rob Parker on Dec 12, 2011 9:45 AM EST up reply actions  

Chimera for MVC!

Cross check and all call.

by bigonetimer on Dec 12, 2011 10:19 AM EST up reply actions  

They’re 19th in 5v5 GF:GA ratio.

Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world

by J.P. on Dec 12, 2011 10:22 AM EST up reply actions  

Of course, the Caps are also -1 as a team. When was the last time you saw that?

by RCheli on Dec 12, 2011 10:11 AM EST up reply actions  

The playoffs.

Please, call me F&B.

by Rob Parker on Dec 12, 2011 11:54 AM EST up reply actions   2 recs

Unless you’re preparing to take the author to task…

I was planning on it, but I need the link to make sure I know exactly what his argument was.

"Shots aren't the important thing. Scoring chances are way more important than shots." - Bruce Boudreau

See my work in the Washington Post and on ESPN Insider.

Follow me on Twitter @ngreenberg

by NGreenberg on Dec 12, 2011 9:53 AM EST up reply actions  

Looks like there will be one less Caps Alumni as an NHL coach if the report about the Kings dumping Terry Murray as coach is true.

by Rather Bengt on Dec 12, 2011 9:48 AM EST reply actions  

Anything concrete yet?

Please, call me F&B.

by Rob Parker on Dec 12, 2011 9:49 AM EST up reply actions  

Nothing concrete yet..just was looking at Helene Elliott’s reports. Possible expected this week.

Link

by Rather Bengt on Dec 12, 2011 9:51 AM EST reply actions  

Sorry reply fail….In reply to F&B’s inquiry.

by Rather Bengt on Dec 12, 2011 9:52 AM EST up reply actions  

From Elliott’s article, she plays a down a couple of possible replacements:

Assistant coach John Stevens, like Murray and Lombardi a product of the Philadelphia Flyers organization, might be asked to serve as interim coach, but his similarities to Murray make him an unlikely long-term choice.

The Kings are not thought to be interested in Randy Carlyle, who was fired by the Ducks on Nov. 30

.

by Rather Bengt on Dec 12, 2011 9:54 AM EST up reply actions  

Bob McK confirming Slava Malamud’s report on twitter that Filatov is leaving OTT to play in Russia. The Sens do retain all his rights and he is still under contract to them.

by Rather Bengt on Dec 12, 2011 9:59 AM EST reply actions  

Russia’s like that slutty chick at the end of the bar waiting for Miss Cable Knit Sweater to turn her back so she can make off with her dude.

Cross check and all call.

by bigonetimer on Dec 12, 2011 10:26 AM EST up reply actions  

Wow, the gives me a whole new appreciation of the K. And frankly, I like it!

A danger to myself and others on the ice

by can't skate on Dec 12, 2011 10:45 AM EST via mobile up reply actions  

I’m sure they’re just crushed in Binghamton, where Filatov was playing. He looks like the perfect KHL player.

by RCheli on Dec 12, 2011 11:46 AM EST up reply actions  

Hey all, Late to the convo, but any news as to a Mike Green sighting in another city? As a few people pointed out to me, he tweeted last night and he was at the airport from the sounds of it.

Curious if he’s traveling for personal reasons (e.g., family) or if this relates to his injury and getting a second (or third) opinion.

by sk84fun_dc on Dec 12, 2011 10:34 AM EST reply actions  

I haven’t seen an answer to the question.

Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world

by J.P. on Dec 12, 2011 10:35 AM EST up reply actions  

Amazed. Wideman ends up in the hospital and someone sees his name and gets it out there, but no one has seen Green at an airport?

by sk84fun_dc on Dec 12, 2011 10:37 AM EST up reply actions  

Guess no one was traveling out of town on a Sunday.

Have to admit, the chances that someone would have seen Wideman’s name on a hospital room had to have been slim.

"The Caps fan doesn't say, 'is the glass half full' or 'is the glass half empty'. He wonders when the glass is going to spill."

by gfcaps fan on Dec 12, 2011 10:41 AM EST up reply actions  

I’d guess he was coming back in town yesterday, considering he was MIA since after practice Thursday and Sunday being a scheduled day off. Though McNally is reporting he’s not out on the ice this morning.

"You can want to get to April but when you get to April you may not like the answers you get, so you might as well enjoy the ride while it's going on." - Brian McNally on JRR, 8/29/2011

by bagace on Dec 12, 2011 10:46 AM EST up reply actions  

You know, that’s a valid point that we never talked about last night. He didn’t skate over the weekend, so yeah, he could have been returning to DC, not leaving.

"The Caps fan doesn't say, 'is the glass half full' or 'is the glass half empty'. He wonders when the glass is going to spill."

by gfcaps fan on Dec 12, 2011 10:51 AM EST up reply actions  

Ha, I’d note that the tweet indicates he wasn’t very familiar with the airport procedures we ‘civilians’ go through so I assumed he was traveling somewhere for a Monday morning appointment. All assumptions all the time :)

by sk84fun_dc on Dec 12, 2011 10:52 AM EST up reply actions  

Likewise. Just saying we all assumed….

I found it funny, because it’s not like these guys never travel anywhere on their personal time.

"The Caps fan doesn't say, 'is the glass half full' or 'is the glass half empty'. He wonders when the glass is going to spill."

by gfcaps fan on Dec 12, 2011 10:54 AM EST up reply actions  

Hasn’t he been known to travel to get work done on his tattoos, too?

That'll make your weagle wink!
"You're the boss, apple sauce" - @GreenLife52

by boutros23 on Dec 12, 2011 10:54 AM EST up reply actions  

Could be, but when you fly as regularly as they do with the team and go through the team procedure instead, I imagine it could be something one would forget.

I was just noting it in terms of making the assumption he was headed out of town vs back to town, as a result of that comment.

by sk84fun_dc on Dec 12, 2011 10:59 AM EST up reply actions  

and I had thought about adding the same hashtag to my tweet to Japers on twitter, but NGreenberg did add it to his tweet on the topic

#whereintheworldismikegreen

by sk84fun_dc on Dec 12, 2011 11:01 AM EST up reply actions  

Also, related to the Sibley/Kolzig/Shaffer piece above, along with being Kolzig’s surgeon (and RedBirdie’s from what she has noted on here), he’s still the head physician for the Caps.

by sk84fun_dc on Dec 12, 2011 10:36 AM EST reply actions  

For those who missed it over the weekend, Hunter and Johnson were up in Hershey to see a not so great performance by the Bears in Saturday night’s loss. Didn’t look like they were there last night for the Bears win. Unfortunately, Patrick McNeill got injured early in the game Saturday night and returned to the game, but was likely playing through some pain/discomfort (and sat out yesterday’s game.)

Also, related to the Caps/Bears, short-term and long-term, the Bouchard for Kundratek trade looks like a win. Still plenty of room for development, but intrigued by the new dman, Kundratek, so far. Also, he has a 6 game active point streak, with 4G/2A/+4 and 4PIMs during the 6 games in December.

by sk84fun_dc on Dec 12, 2011 10:49 AM EST reply actions  

Also, since his return from injury, Ryan Potulny has been playing well and I would guess is next on the winger call-up list.

by sk84fun_dc on Dec 12, 2011 10:51 AM EST up reply actions  

I know I saw Potulny a couple seasons back when he played for the Oilers. What’s the main shortcoming in his game that’s relegated him to mainly being an AHL-er?

by Rather Bengt on Dec 12, 2011 10:59 AM EST up reply actions  

Haven’t seen him much so far this year, due to his injury to start the season, but since his return, he’s been an effective player. I can’t recall if the trade from the Flyers to Oilers was a contract issue or swapping the forward for a dman, or both.

From what I recall, he did have some injuries earlier in his career. What I don’t recall is there being any one specific knock on him like with some guys (i.e., he doesn’t have a reputation for being bad away from the puck,) but last season in his limited opportunities with 2 NHL teams, he didn’t produce points and his ice time became even more limited.

by sk84fun_dc on Dec 12, 2011 11:12 AM EST up reply actions  

Thanks sk8. From doing a little research, it says he was traded to the OIlers from the Flyers for D-man Danny Syvret in 2008. It looks like he was nipped by the injury bug as you said.

There was that one season a couple years ago where he scored 15g 17a in 64 games for a poor Oilers squad and was 6th in team scoring and tied for 3rd in goals. What I have read about him said he is responsible away from the puck as you said and is good in the dot. I wonder if the Caps could possibly have him on the team next year to replace Halpern.

by Rather Bengt on Dec 12, 2011 11:37 AM EST up reply actions  

Seems to me like he’s a top-6-or-bust type of guy, like Aucoin, that isn’t winning top 6 jobs in the NHL. He’s got skill, just not quite enough I guess.

Please, call me F&B.

by Rob Parker on Dec 12, 2011 11:57 AM EST up reply actions  

Bouchard for anyone was going to be, at worst, a push.

(Fwiw, Bouchard has 2G, 2A in 14 GP for CT, with the two assists coming in the same game.)

Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world

by J.P. on Dec 12, 2011 10:53 AM EST up reply actions  

True, before they took the ice for their new teams, I viewed it as a win for that reason, plus Kundratek being a dman (with decent size), younger and still on his ELC for this season and next season, but so far so good as far as his play since he acclimated to the new team/systems, etc.

by sk84fun_dc on Dec 12, 2011 10:57 AM EST up reply actions  

At the moment, Hershey looks less like a proving ground for prospects and more a “spare parts” lot in the event of injury. Looking at the stats for the year for the Bears (among the skaters), not one guy there (since Eakin and Orlov are here) can be thought of as a better-than-50-50-he-makes-it prospect in the long term plans of the parent club. Things can change, but at the moment it is a different kind of club for the Caps than it might have been 3-4 years ago.

If you've read this far...seek help.

by ThePeerless on Dec 12, 2011 12:25 PM EST up reply actions  

And that isn’t a surprise given the number of prospects who have graduated/the youth on the Caps and the early promotions of Eakin and Orlov this season, plus the guys signed this off-season. As you note, among the skaters, as different story with the goalies with Holtby is still in the pipeline, as well as Grubauer, in SC. Some nice words about Grubauer by the Gwinnett coach this weekend, too.

I’d say Kundratek is worth watching, not for the short-term but a young dman prospect with some potential.

by sk84fun_dc on Dec 12, 2011 12:31 PM EST up reply actions  

And Kuz ticketed straight to the big club, and a whole bunch of guys in college.

You perhaps knew me better as "Your Nation's Capital." Same great commentary, now with 100% more transparency!

by EmilyB on Dec 12, 2011 12:36 PM EST up reply actions  

Plus...

Eakin and Orlov were going to be in their first pro season in Hershey, but they pushed their way onto the Caps roster when given the opportunity. The rest of the Capitals’ offensive prospects (waiting for D’ohboy) are still at the juniors/college level.

by Forsch31 on Dec 12, 2011 12:50 PM EST up reply actions  

Yes that is why I noted the early promotions to the NHL (at least for now) and Peerless noted that they were on the NHL roster, too.

Cyclical nature with prospects and rebuilds plus trading more draft picks in recent seasons and a few picks which didn’t work out. As noted, still some prospects in the pipeline in college, plus Kuznetsov, Galiev, etc.

by sk84fun_dc on Dec 12, 2011 12:53 PM EST up reply actions  

Holtby!

But yea, none of the skaters look all that hot.

Proud member of the Popsicle Division of the Cupcake Conference.

by Bman21212 on Dec 12, 2011 12:43 PM EST up reply actions  

Holtby’s only at .898 SV% this season; he ain’t lookin’ so great either.

Geeks of All Nations, Compile!

by AMusingFool on Dec 12, 2011 1:19 PM EST up reply actions  

Definitely some of that has been on Holtby and some has been on the team D in front of him at times.

by sk84fun_dc on Dec 12, 2011 1:21 PM EST up reply actions  

No so far this season, but I have faith in his past results bringing that up by the end of the season. Just like Vokoun.

Proud member of the Popsicle Division of the Cupcake Conference.

by Bman21212 on Dec 12, 2011 2:14 PM EST up reply actions  

Ups and Downs are up… and happy!

Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world

by J.P. on Dec 12, 2011 11:01 AM EST reply actions  

From Bob McK's Waiver Wire Report

FLA have put F Tim Kennedy on waivers.

TB have signed ex DAL and MIN RW Antti Miettinen from Europe but he must go through waivers first.

by Rather Bengt on Dec 12, 2011 12:21 PM EST reply actions  

He had a really promising first year in Buffalo, but injuries have killed his career. Some team should claim him, though.

by RCheli on Dec 12, 2011 12:24 PM EST up reply actions  

I’m more interested to see if Miettinen gets claimed as he returned from Europe with teams like the Kings struggling for offense, too; curious what the contract cap hit is.

by sk84fun_dc on Dec 12, 2011 12:26 PM EST up reply actions  

I agree with you on all counts. I think someone will claim him.

by Rather Bengt on Dec 12, 2011 12:30 PM EST up reply actions  

I hope so. They don’t need any help with their depth.

Please, call me F&B.

by Rob Parker on Dec 12, 2011 1:04 PM EST up reply actions  

It’s all about the contract. He can only be signed to a one-year deal, right?

by RCheli on Dec 12, 2011 12:32 PM EST up reply actions  

I don’t believe there is any restriction on the term of his contract although it would be surprising if he was signed for more than just this season. I guess it’s possible they could sign him for a second year just to try to discourage another team from claiming him, if they thought that was going to be an issue, but the cap hit would likely be the discouraging factor depending on what it is, along with his uneven play for the Wild last season.

by sk84fun_dc on Dec 12, 2011 12:37 PM EST up reply actions  

and here’s the contract info. answer from mirtle James Mirtle

Lightning have agreed to terms with free agent forward Antti Miettinen to a two-year, one-way contract.

still waiting on cap hit info.

by sk84fun_dc on Dec 12, 2011 2:10 PM EST up reply actions  

GMGM should sign him for no other reason than the 05 draft wont be a total, complete and utter failure.

Just trying to capture the spirit of the thing...

by dcsportsfan1 on Dec 12, 2011 12:33 PM EST up reply actions  

Hockey OT: Kennedy was traded immediately after he was picked to his hometown team (which also happened to be the team with the next pick), but he was traded for a pick in the ’06 draft, which the Caps used to draft Perreault.

by sk84fun_dc on Dec 12, 2011 12:35 PM EST up reply actions  

Tyler Kennedy? Sign him!

Oh, Tim Kennedy, darn.

"Fais gros comme moi!" - Alex Ovechkin

by Gould Old Days on Dec 12, 2011 4:10 PM EST up reply actions  

Carlson is the NHL’s 3rd star of the week. Celebratory FanShot up on the front page…

Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world

by J.P. on Dec 12, 2011 12:24 PM EST reply actions  

Mike Green to see a specialist in regards to his groin:
http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=606009

by Gunjin on Dec 12, 2011 12:25 PM EST reply actions  

I hope it’s not the same specialist treating Tom Poti.

Nice guys finish first, but sometimes the season is awfully long.
Follow me on Twitter.

by STLSpidey on Dec 12, 2011 12:28 PM EST up reply actions  

"Groin Specialist"

would look excellent on a business card…

by kingbonehead on Dec 12, 2011 1:33 PM EST up reply actions  

Just watched the Hunter clip, and he was asked if Green was seeing a “groin” specialist, and he specifically said , “specialist”. When asked if Green was flying to Vancouver to see, I guess the go-to groin specialist, Hunter said, “We aren’t saying where he is going….”
I still say this groin injury could actually be something else…As did Alan May last week.

by KSR17 on Dec 12, 2011 1:39 PM EST up reply actions  

I think you’re right to be skeptical. But at the same time, it’s unlikely they’d put him on a plane with concussion-related symptoms.

As was tweeted at me, perhaps this is the specialist he’s seeing: http://t.co/s2peJXBJ

Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world

by J.P. on Dec 12, 2011 1:41 PM EST up reply actions  

Ha! But you’re right about flying…

by KSR17 on Dec 12, 2011 1:43 PM EST up reply actions  

I thought about the flying aspect, but I don’t know how unlikely it is and no, I’m not a C-RS specialist. It seems plausible someone could fly without issues, but have difficulties with certain levels of exertion, etc. Don’t know and the Caps lack of disclosure in general isn’t helping.

Does anyone think the Caps would have noted today that Green was going to see a specialist if Green hadn’t tweeted last night? I don’t.

by sk84fun_dc on Dec 12, 2011 1:45 PM EST up reply actions  

Agreed 100% that they’ve gotta be less-than thrilled at his disclosure.

Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world

by J.P. on Dec 12, 2011 1:47 PM EST up reply actions  

While I don’t like relying on the words of a coach, whether Boudreau or Hunter, i agree it just adds more fuel to the fire. It’s the general approach the Caps take with these injuries, not just the comments from the coaches, that leads to the speculation.

by sk84fun_dc on Dec 12, 2011 1:42 PM EST up reply actions  

Truth.

Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world

by J.P. on Dec 12, 2011 1:44 PM EST up reply actions  

Are we sure this is the Caps holding back info or the players themselves. I’m not a lawyer but I’m sure there are privacy concerns about disclosing the health of a particular player. If the players doesn’t want any specifics disclosed I’m guessing the team would need to abide by the players wishes.

Just trying to capture the spirit of the thing...

by dcsportsfan1 on Dec 12, 2011 3:19 PM EST up reply actions  

I’m sure that some of your HIPAA-related expectations are signed away as part of signing a contract to play in the League.

Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world

by J.P. on Dec 12, 2011 3:22 PM EST up reply actions  

Figured there was some waiver to allow for the basic disclosure required by the league but didn’t know if a players was required to sign away all the specifics. For example, what if the “injury” was for rehab or psychological reasons?

Just trying to capture the spirit of the thing...

by dcsportsfan1 on Dec 12, 2011 3:26 PM EST up reply actions  

I suspect that if the injury is game related, it’s open. If it’s not, then HIPAA probably protects them.

by RCheli on Dec 12, 2011 3:30 PM EST up reply actions  

Interesting thought. It’s certainly possible, but I doubt it’s that extreme. Certainly, a team can’t release medications, or other non-playing related information beyond the player. It’s probably limited to the nature of the player’s injuries, and nothing more.

Nice guys finish first, but sometimes the season is awfully long.
Follow me on Twitter.

by STLSpidey on Dec 12, 2011 3:26 PM EST up reply actions  

Right, I’d imagine that’s the case.

Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world

by J.P. on Dec 12, 2011 3:28 PM EST up reply actions  

Hence the reason the Caps haven’t disclosed Ovi’s PED prescriptions.

Just trying to capture the spirit of the thing...

by dcsportsfan1 on Dec 12, 2011 3:44 PM EST up reply actions  

The plan is for Green to join the team on the road later this week.

Quick turnaround.

Red Line Station and @RedArmyLine, featuring coverage of the most frustrating team in the NHL
I believe in next year.

by red army line on Dec 12, 2011 12:43 PM EST up reply actions  

So basically MG52 was at the airport yesterday to pick up his shagwagon to drive to either Winnipeg or Denver?

by Rather Bengt on Dec 12, 2011 12:46 PM EST up reply actions  

We’re going to get a lot of mileage out of shagwagon here, aren’t we?

Occasionally reporting from Section 421 of the Verizon Center...

by MikeL-Pivonka on Dec 12, 2011 1:50 PM EST up reply actions  

Not as much as Green will.

Giggity.

by Murshawursha on Dec 12, 2011 1:51 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Put your pants back on.

Unleash the Apathy.

by D'ohboy on Dec 12, 2011 2:41 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

You’re implying I had pants on to begin with.

by Murshawursha on Dec 12, 2011 2:54 PM EST up reply actions   2 recs

Mike Green has been out of the line-up long enough to have already met the miss 10games/24 days required for LTIR. Sad that so much left to assumption at this point due to the team’s policies.

by sk84fun_dc on Dec 12, 2011 12:48 PM EST up reply actions  

So is that good news or bad news?

Please, call me F&B.

by Rob Parker on Dec 12, 2011 1:05 PM EST up reply actions  

Multiple days of not skating and seeing a specialist … I put that in the good news that he is seeing a specialist because it sure sounds like it is necessary, but the rest falls in the bad news category.

by sk84fun_dc on Dec 12, 2011 1:06 PM EST up reply actions  

Ha.

Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world

by J.P. on Dec 12, 2011 1:12 PM EST up reply actions  

Prospects:

So still no indication that Steffen Soberg is playing organized hockey at this time based on lack of reports, no appearance on a roster, etc. Of note, the IIHF U20 WJCs Group A tourney in Germany has started and while he was listed on a preliminary roster last month (along with 2 other goalies), he’s not one of the 2 goalies on the roster. His younger brother is playing for Team Norway.

by sk84fun_dc on Dec 12, 2011 12:45 PM EST reply actions  

haha @ Chuck Gormely broadcast review.

What doesnt kill you makes you stronger.

by BetterOffWith28 on Dec 12, 2011 12:56 PM EST reply actions  

Regarding tomorrow night’s game:

@davegisaac
Giroux is continuing to feel better and won’t travel per Holmgren.

"You can want to get to April but when you get to April you may not like the answers you get, so you might as well enjoy the ride while it's going on." - Brian McNally on JRR, 8/29/2011

by bagace on Dec 12, 2011 1:00 PM EST reply actions  

Mike Green is also continuing to feel better. Le sigh.

You perhaps knew me better as "Your Nation's Capital." Same great commentary, now with 100% more transparency!

by EmilyB on Dec 12, 2011 1:02 PM EST up reply actions  

Don’t worry though, it’s just a day-to-day kind of thing.

by Murshawursha on Dec 12, 2011 1:04 PM EST up reply actions  

"It’s a different soreness," Boudreau said. "At least it’s not the ankle, so that’s good news. I’m pretty confident (it’s not serious). I talked to him already about it and it’s a day-to-day thing. Not a three-week day-to-day thing. It’s an actual day-to-day thing."

11/11/11 — NEVER FORGET

Capitals goal scored by #22, Mike...

by KNUUUUUUUUUUBLE on Dec 12, 2011 1:35 PM EST up reply actions  

I guess he was right, after all. It’s already a four-week day-to-day thing.

Geeks of All Nations, Compile!

by AMusingFool on Dec 12, 2011 1:43 PM EST up reply actions  

OT: Only one NHL game tonight: NJD at TBL. Still football season…but Sun (2 games), Mon (1), Tue (12), Wed (3) … NHL scheduling stinks at times.

by sk84fun_dc on Dec 12, 2011 1:10 PM EST reply actions  

The NHL doesn’t want to go up against the NFL if they can avoid it… they know they’re never going to be #1…

Occasionally reporting from Section 421 of the Verizon Center...

by MikeL-Pivonka on Dec 12, 2011 1:52 PM EST up reply actions  

Yes, I mentioned it in my post, still odd scheduling, with the drop-off on Wed, too.

by sk84fun_dc on Dec 12, 2011 1:58 PM EST up reply actions  

The big drop on Wed is due to the bunch on Tues.

Occasionally reporting from Section 421 of the Verizon Center...

by MikeL-Pivonka on Dec 12, 2011 2:00 PM EST up reply actions  

Right, but they could even things out a bit more. I know this isn’t unique this week, just annoying how many days it impacts.

by sk84fun_dc on Dec 12, 2011 2:05 PM EST up reply actions  

I don’t know, STL-SEA is a pretty horrible game, they would have had a chance to pull some viewers tonight.

by Beakers Lab on Dec 12, 2011 2:00 PM EST up reply actions  

Despite the horrible match up, it will still have more viewers than the NHL game.

Occasionally reporting from Section 421 of the Verizon Center...

by MikeL-Pivonka on Dec 12, 2011 2:01 PM EST up reply actions  

I will not be one of those viewers of the NFL game. Football has become to painfully slow and disjointed to watch. nothing like 6 minutes of commercials surrounding 8-10 seconds of play clock on a kickoff.

WSJ did a story and found that of a 180 minute football game 11 minutes were actual action, ~70 were commercials and then the rest was a combo of players “generally milling about”, announcers and replays.

by Beakers Lab on Dec 12, 2011 2:04 PM EST up reply actions  

That’s why I can’t watch it. I hate the whole run for 10-15 seconds and then stand around for the next 30-45 part about it.

by Murshawursha on Dec 12, 2011 2:06 PM EST up reply actions  

/OT

Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world

by J.P. on Dec 12, 2011 2:08 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Like everything, I DVR games and watch a full football game in about 45 minutes. It’s much better that way.

by RCheli on Dec 12, 2011 3:03 PM EST up reply actions  

Amen to that. That’s the only way I watch it, these days.

Geeks of All Nations, Compile!

by AMusingFool on Dec 12, 2011 3:29 PM EST up reply actions  

Given NFL Monday Night draw plus the timing of when schedules are done, not really a factor.

by sk84fun_dc on Dec 12, 2011 2:06 PM EST up reply actions  

I’ve seen some of the greatest athletes of my lifetime deny, deny, deny, and then either admit to or be found to be steroid users. And many of those denials came under oath. In front of the United States Congress.

Now that is a syllogism.

Some athletes in other sports have taken steroids.
Some athletes have lied about taking steroids.
Therefore, Alex Ovechkin is taking steroids.

BOOM. SMOKING GUN.

Capitals goal scored by #22, Mike...

by KNUUUUUUUUUUBLE on Dec 12, 2011 1:29 PM EST reply actions  

That’s like an SAT or ACT question. Here’s some different logic Steigerwald might have used.

Alex Ovechkin is Russian.
Russia was formerly part of the Soviet Union.
The Soviets created the Communist Bloc which included East Germany.
East Germans were shown to have used PEDs during many Olympics and international competitions.

Therefore, Alex Ovechkin takes PEDs.

Nice guys finish first, but sometimes the season is awfully long.
Follow me on Twitter.

by STLSpidey on Dec 12, 2011 1:34 PM EST up reply actions  

You don’t really need to go that far. A bunch of Russians have been busted for PED use in recent Olympic competitions, and the Russian cycling team Katusha isn’t exactly known as a haven from cheating. Steigerwald may be a sheep rapist (I’m just asking questions?), but the accusation that Russia has seen its share of PED use isn’t totally baseless.

Unleash the Apathy.

by D'ohboy on Dec 12, 2011 2:44 PM EST up reply actions  

Cyclists on PED? Now that’s a smoking gun.

Please, call me F&B.

by Rob Parker on Dec 12, 2011 3:00 PM EST up reply actions  

He might even be begging the question

in the proper sense of the phrase.

It's not that I don't like people, I'm just happier when they're not around - Hank Chinaski

by Edanger6 on Dec 12, 2011 2:35 PM EST up reply actions  

This is a bit of an uncharitable reconstruction of his argument, to say the least. Here’s a more charitable one:

P1. Ex (Ax & Sx)
P2. Vy ((Ay & Dy)> Sy)
P3. Ao & Do
C. So (from P2, P3)

Where:
Ax=x is an athelete,
Sx=x uses steroids
Dx=x denies using steroids
o=Ovechkin

Alex Ovechkin uses steroids because he is an athlete who denies using steroids and all athletes who deny using steroids are steroid users.

What do you think is happening to the team? ... The ship be sinking.
How far can it sink? ... Sky's the limit.

by Rainbow, Kitty, Beer on Dec 12, 2011 6:36 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Heads up for anyone in Detroit area, via tweets from Theplayersgroup JASON WOOLLEY …

“The Story of Hockey on Detroit Public TV PBS Monday, Dec. 12, 9 and 11 p.m. …”

“Excited about COAST TO COAST on PBS Monday. 9pm-10.30pm. Its a great piece on the the game and its grass roots. Look forward to reminiscing.”

“WIll be talking about my Olympic experience, NHL experiences, TPG Hockey my current agency, TGI (http://www.newrealitycanada.com) and my youth hockey."

by sk84fun_dc on Dec 12, 2011 1:30 PM EST reply actions  

I didn’t provide a smoking gun.

It took a long time to come to my approach of “guilty until proven innocent” to athletes and steroids.

I knew college football players who were taking the steroid Dianabol 40 years ago.

This man gets paid to write for a living. That reads like a fifth-grader’s term paper.

Capitals goal scored by #22, Mike...

by KNUUUUUUUUUUBLE on Dec 12, 2011 1:31 PM EST reply actions  

40 years ago? According to the audio PD posted he was 20 in 1980.

Please, call me F&B.

by Rob Parker on Dec 12, 2011 1:34 PM EST up reply actions  

Maybe he was the one taking them.

Capitals goal scored by #22, Mike...

by KNUUUUUUUUUUBLE on Dec 12, 2011 1:36 PM EST up reply actions  

He’s older than 51.

by RCheli on Dec 12, 2011 1:36 PM EST up reply actions  

Grammatically, he could be correct.

I knew college football players [much older than me, who played in the 1960s] who were taking the steroid Dianabol.

or

I knew college football players [from the past] who were taking the steroid Dianabol 40 years ago [when they played].

Nice guys finish first, but sometimes the season is awfully long.
Follow me on Twitter.

by STLSpidey on Dec 12, 2011 1:39 PM EST up reply actions  

And yet, he never wrote about them. Hmmmm….

by Forsch31 on Dec 12, 2011 2:14 PM EST up reply actions  

Crosby now out indefinitely. I feel for the kid.

Nice guys finish first, but sometimes the season is awfully long.
Follow me on Twitter.

by STLSpidey on Dec 12, 2011 1:44 PM EST reply actions  

And Neil’s stats about the recovery of an athlete’s career post-concussion is very scary.

by KSR17 on Dec 12, 2011 1:49 PM EST up reply actions  

Repost please.

Please, call me F&B.

by Rob Parker on Dec 12, 2011 1:50 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

OMG THE TWO GAME “PRECAUTION” WASN’T REALLY PRECAUTIONARY AND WASN’T REALLY JUST TWO GAMES?

I’m fucking shocked. Who can we trust these days? Next you’ll tell me cops and politicians lie too. Don’t ruin my worldview, Spidey.

Please, call me F&B.

by Rob Parker on Dec 12, 2011 1:50 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

You know, the President doesn’t unilaterally set policy.

Nice guys finish first, but sometimes the season is awfully long.
Follow me on Twitter.

by STLSpidey on Dec 12, 2011 1:51 PM EST up reply actions   2 recs

But it’s an honest-to-goodness day-to-day indefinite timetable. Not a three-week indefinite timetable.

Capitals goal scored by #22, Mike...

by KNUUUUUUUUUUBLE on Dec 12, 2011 1:52 PM EST up reply actions  

This is probably a longer thread – but the covert nature of injuries is intriguing.

I get why they might not mention a body part. However altruistic you are, players do go after hurt body parts. Remember DeAngelo Hall saying he would hit Tony Romo’s ribs? He was just being honest.

But, unless they really don’t know the timetable, I’m confused as to why they just won’t say. What’s the big deal if he comes back early or is out longer? It seems like they protect on the long side, calling everything day-to-day, except when we see the knee or ankle or elbow pointing at the wrong angle.

Nice guys finish first, but sometimes the season is awfully long.
Follow me on Twitter.

by STLSpidey on Dec 12, 2011 1:54 PM EST up reply actions  

I get why they might not mention a body part. However altruistic you are, players do go after hurt body parts. Remember DeAngelo Hall saying he would hit Tony Romo’s ribs? He was just being honest.

And there are rules in place to protect players. I don’t buy the “targeting” rationale for non-disclosure.

As to the timetable question, my theory is that it’s partially about liability. Say they publicly announce four weeks, then put a guy on the ice in two weeks and he reinjures himself. The player could conceivably allege that the team mishandled his injury and he’d have their own words on his side. “Day-to-day” is sufficiently vague.

Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world

by J.P. on Dec 12, 2011 1:59 PM EST up reply actions  

Well the rules to protect players don’t cover the myriad of legal hits. It’s a bit different with QBs because you can’t hit them everywhere. But if you know a guy is more sensitive in one area than another then you may adjust your punishment accordingly, in a legal manner.

Please, call me F&B.

by Rob Parker on Dec 12, 2011 2:01 PM EST up reply actions  

But the player and team have already decided that he’s healthy enough to withstand legal contact. That’s their call.

Also, not breaking news: everyone knows what the injuries are, for the most part, except sometimes the fans.

Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world

by J.P. on Dec 12, 2011 2:05 PM EST up reply actions  

Greenie and Crosby can hang together at the specialist on a day-to-day basis.

by kingbonehead on Dec 12, 2011 1:53 PM EST up reply actions  

But they’re seeing different specialists… or are they?! duh Duh DUH!

Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world

by J.P. on Dec 12, 2011 1:54 PM EST up reply actions  

Ha, now just change the orange to green or maybe the helmet to green!

by sk84fun_dc on Dec 12, 2011 5:03 PM EST up reply actions  

IIRC, this was precipitated by an accidental hit from Kunitz, right?

by JMurphyCSC on Dec 12, 2011 1:51 PM EST up reply actions  

They’re saying Krecji, same game.

Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world

by J.P. on Dec 12, 2011 1:51 PM EST up reply actions  

Hmmm, so when do we hear, all players with the first name David are banned from the NHL starting now…

On a serious note, I echo others here and elsewhere, not good to hear that he is out again with C-RS, but not surprising it’s more than 2 games he is missing.

In related / unrelated news, David Steckel is struggling through another finger injury (broken finger from what is being reported.)

by sk84fun_dc on Dec 12, 2011 1:57 PM EST up reply actions  

The funny thing is, Crosby kinda just awkwardly ran into Krejci. At least he was looking where he was going this time though.

Tu ne cede malis

by _Skullduggery_ on Dec 12, 2011 4:14 PM EST up reply actions  

I know that’s what they’re saying now….

Seeing mention of his knee, also, maybe that was from colliding with Kunitz?

"The Caps fan doesn't say, 'is the glass half full' or 'is the glass half empty'. He wonders when the glass is going to spill."

by gfcaps fan on Dec 12, 2011 3:36 PM EST up reply actions  

Well if we’re going all smoking gun conspiracy theorist…

“accidental” ?

"A picture is worth a thousand words. For moving pictures we manage to shorten it to one or two."

by Dimagus on Dec 12, 2011 1:53 PM EST up reply actions  

Apparently, there are no accidents when it comes to Sid.

Cross check and all call.

by bigonetimer on Dec 12, 2011 2:36 PM EST up reply actions  

Kunitz needs to learn to be in control and aware.

Please, call me F&B.

by Rob Parker on Dec 12, 2011 2:40 PM EST up reply actions  

OT: Saw on twitter this morning that Marty Turco is heading overseas to play for Salzburg.

by sk84fun_dc on Dec 12, 2011 1:51 PM EST reply actions  

Noodles has been horrrribbllllleee

by sk84fun_dc on Dec 12, 2011 1:55 PM EST up reply actions  

Poor guy has a face for radio and a voice for newsprint.

Unleash the Apathy.

by D'ohboy on Dec 12, 2011 2:47 PM EST up reply actions  

And the hockey talent for the American League.

Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world

by J.P. on Dec 12, 2011 2:54 PM EST up reply actions  

Please?

"The Caps fan doesn't say, 'is the glass half full' or 'is the glass half empty'. He wonders when the glass is going to spill."

by gfcaps fan on Dec 12, 2011 3:41 PM EST up reply actions  

Only for the weekend, it appears. It’s a pretty short-term contract.

Reporter: "What’s your Mom’s birthday?"
Tortorella: "I have no idea."

by Wheeler on Dec 12, 2011 1:57 PM EST up reply actions  

Link? Not unusual to go over and practice with a team or sign as a tryout, but would think he’d be going over for more than just a weekend, weird.

by sk84fun_dc on Dec 12, 2011 1:58 PM EST up reply actions  

From Puck Daddy:

EC Salzburg confirm they have signed G Marty Turco to a short-time contract. Turco is only expected to play in the European Trophy Finals / Red Bulls Salute, played in Austria between December 16th and 18th.

by Murshawursha on Dec 12, 2011 2:00 PM EST up reply actions  

Interesting. Thanks I was wondering if he was trying to get in some games to possibly play on the Spengler Cup team, but looks like that roster has been announced already. Perhaps there could be changes, but that’s what I thought of with this timing. Canada’s roster for Spengler Cup later this month includes some ex-Caps.

by sk84fun_dc on Dec 12, 2011 2:04 PM EST up reply actions  

Thank goodness that KHL contract issue hasn’t affected the international status of Joel “Kiwi” Kwiatkowski!

Rico Fata and Glen Metropolit too… wow, who knew they were still impersonating hockey players playing hockey…

Occasionally reporting from Section 421 of the Verizon Center...

by MikeL-Pivonka on Dec 12, 2011 4:09 PM EST up reply actions  

from Peerless
If you consider the "shut-down" quintet as being the line of Joel Ward, Brooks Laich, and Jason Chimera; and the shutdown defensive pair as being John Carlson and Kark Alzner, they skated together for 32 shifts for the week (source: timeonice.com). At no time were they on ice for any goals against as a group.

I think I may need a moment….

Cross check and all call.

by bigonetimer on Dec 12, 2011 2:54 PM EST reply actions  

Yep. Back to where they were at the beginning of the season.

That said… Ward’s late penalty against Ottawa isn’t something you’d like to see become a habit.

Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world

by J.P. on Dec 12, 2011 2:55 PM EST up reply actions  

He has seemed a bit out of sorts the past few games, especially in Ottawa and Toronto. He was definitely hustling but, looked all sorts of exhausted out there for most of his shifts. As the game went on, he started to fall off the puck pretty easily and made a few odd passes.

Come tuesday, I’m hoping for a big game for both him and the CLAW line against Briere

Soon the Championship with be ours, all ours!

by kingzman264 on Dec 12, 2011 5:34 PM EST up reply actions  

Murray out of work with Kings

Also,

Devils trade Rod Pelley and Mark Fraser to Ducks for D … Foster an G Timo Pielmierer
source: Ledger_NJDevils Rich Chere

by sk84fun_dc on Dec 12, 2011 5:50 PM EST reply actions  

Stevens is interim coach. (Hi, sk8)

That'll make your weagle wink!
"You're the boss, apple sauce" - @GreenLife52

by boutros23 on Dec 12, 2011 5:53 PM EST up reply actions  

Hey birthday girl!

Another coach out… intrigued to see NJD pick up Kurtis Foster and his shot and a depth goalie for the Devils system.

by sk84fun_dc on Dec 12, 2011 5:57 PM EST up reply actions  

Mike Richards and John Stevens together again (and yes, I know Richards is hurt and Stevens was already coaching with the Kings)

by sk84fun_dc on Dec 12, 2011 5:59 PM EST up reply actions  

Coach killer!

You perhaps knew me better as "Your Nation's Capital." Same great commentary, now with 100% more transparency!

by EmilyB on Dec 12, 2011 6:30 PM EST up reply actions  

2 of 3 California NHL coaches have been fired this season …

by sk84fun_dc on Dec 12, 2011 6:02 PM EST up reply actions  

Also a 7th round pick headed to the Ducks.

by sk84fun_dc on Dec 12, 2011 6:00 PM EST up reply actions  

@DarrenDreger

Dean Lombardi scorched the players in a meeting a short while ago. Very upset he had to fire Murray.

You perhaps knew me better as "Your Nation's Capital." Same great commentary, now with 100% more transparency!

by EmilyB on Dec 12, 2011 6:28 PM EST up reply actions  

@Real_ESPNLeBrun

Kings player, who doesn’t want to be identified, via text regarding Murray firing: ``I think it had to happen. We were dead.’’

You perhaps knew me better as "Your Nation's Capital." Same great commentary, now with 100% more transparency!

by EmilyB on Dec 12, 2011 6:30 PM EST up reply actions  

Devils trade Rod Pelley and Mark Fraser to Ducks for D … Foster an G Timo Pielmierer

Now the Ducks have a Pelley and a Smith-Pelley.

You perhaps knew me better as "Your Nation's Capital." Same great commentary, now with 100% more transparency!

by EmilyB on Dec 12, 2011 6:31 PM EST up reply actions  

NO RELATION.

That'll make your weagle wink!
"You're the boss, apple sauce" - @GreenLife52

by boutros23 on Dec 12, 2011 6:32 PM EST up reply actions  

DRINK!

Boutros Boutros Birthday.

You perhaps knew me better as "Your Nation's Capital." Same great commentary, now with 100% more transparency!

by EmilyB on Dec 12, 2011 6:34 PM EST up reply actions  

Golly.

Unleash the Apathy.

by D'ohboy on Dec 12, 2011 6:42 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Happy birthday boutros24

by Rather Bengt on Dec 12, 2011 6:34 PM EST up reply actions  

Haha. NEVER.

That'll make your weagle wink!
"You're the boss, apple sauce" - @GreenLife52

by boutros23 on Dec 12, 2011 6:44 PM EST up reply actions  

Alan may on ESPN980 right now.

You perhaps knew me better as "Your Nation's Capital." Same great commentary, now with 100% more transparency!

by EmilyB on Dec 12, 2011 6:38 PM EST reply actions  

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