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The big thing I noticed in last night’s recap here… not a single mention of Alex Ovechkin. It speaks volumes.

If you've read this far...seek help.

by ThePeerless on Nov 9, 2011 6:46 AM EST reply actions   1 recs

He was flat-out handled by the DAL thirds, Robidas and Sheldon Bleeping Souray.

Cross check and all call.

by bigonetimer on Nov 9, 2011 7:12 AM EST up reply actions  

Can’t say that his response to Chesnokov’s question about changing his style was very encouraging.

by kovachs on Nov 9, 2011 7:15 AM EST up reply actions  

Link (or in which of the recaps it’s in)?

"My favorite fan base in D.C. Is United's. Period. The end." - Steinberg

"I worry that we're reaching that point where college-age kids don't know what goatse is anymore."

by Bald Pollack on Nov 9, 2011 7:23 AM EST up reply actions  

Via Twitter:

I asked Ovi if he tried to change his game in the past and if now trying to change back: “Change what? In the NHL everyone knows how u play”

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by J.P. on Nov 9, 2011 7:26 AM EST up reply actions  

Disappointing, but not surprising.

Cross check and all call.

by bigonetimer on Nov 9, 2011 7:28 AM EST up reply actions  

I don’t get it. Everyone whines about what has worked so well for him in the past. What? is he going to do something different every single game? Every team watches video on the capitals and ovechkin. He’s under the microscope like no other player. It would be impossible for him to always be doing something the D isn’t expecting.

And on top of it all, he HAS been doing different stuff. Positioning himself in front of the net for redirects, not always trying to push the slot, but carry the puck over the blue line to the opposite wing to try and pull defenders. Can Ovechkin please anyone?

/end rant

by aaw6848 on Nov 9, 2011 11:06 AM EST up reply actions  

Can Ovechkin please anyone?

Sure. He can produce.

Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world

by J.P. on Nov 9, 2011 11:09 AM EST up reply actions  

13 points in 13 games isn’t “ovechkin like” numbers – but I wouldn’t say he isn’t producing.

We all know he can do better. Last night was a full team failure. Place blame for the attitude of the team on Ovechkin.

by aaw6848 on Nov 9, 2011 11:12 AM EST up reply actions  

We all know he can do better.

And when he does, he’ll be pleasing people.

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by J.P. on Nov 9, 2011 11:13 AM EST up reply actions  

I meant in regards to last night.

He has played excellent games this season, and he’s had bad ones. but to argue simply “He should start producing” when he’s at a PPG pace, doesn’t’ compute with me.

by aaw6848 on Nov 9, 2011 11:15 AM EST up reply actions  

It’s in large part because his PPG pace is well off his career average. It’s also because he’s not scoring goals at the rate he used to. Or hitting at the rate he used to. Combine that with floaty play in his own end and you’ve got a player whose on-ice production lags far behind his huge salary.

Unleash the Apathy.

by D'ohboy on Nov 9, 2011 11:18 AM EST up reply actions  

I will not disagree.

Switching the argument to a salary based line of reasoning changes things

by aaw6848 on Nov 9, 2011 11:20 AM EST up reply actions  

I think we’ve had this discussion in the past where for the most part, people have agreed that at best, Ovi would be able to meet his obligations in the short term for his contract, and that over the long term, the Caps moved all in on inflating contracts as NHL revenues increase, i.e., by the end of Ovi’s contract, $10 mil a season wouldn’t be completely unreasonable for a 30 goal scorer.

by cainoo7x on Nov 9, 2011 11:22 AM EST up reply actions  

I’d say at best, in the short term, he’s exceeding his cap hit by quite a bit.

Red Line Station and @RedArmyLine, featuring coverage of the most frustrating team in the NHL
I believe in next year.

by red army line on Nov 9, 2011 1:16 PM EST up reply actions  

I guess it depends on what you think $9.5 mil (on average) per season is worth in terms of production? Personally, outside of the 65 goal season, I don’t think Ovi’s production has exceeded expectation based on his salary. IMHO, ~50 goals and 110+ points should be expected of someone earning that much per year.

by cainoo7x on Nov 9, 2011 1:22 PM EST up reply actions  

Well, this last offseason each “win” went for about $2.43 million according to Hawerchuk. AO’s best season was north of 30 GVT, which is 5-6 wins, giving me a range of $12.15 million to $14.58 million. And I bet there is a premium for value through offense as opposed to defense on top of that.

Red Line Station and @RedArmyLine, featuring coverage of the most frustrating team in the NHL
I believe in next year.

by red army line on Nov 9, 2011 1:37 PM EST up reply actions  

It should compute – looking at aggregate totals doesn’t tell me much.

Question – which games so far this year has he been excellent in? Which have been “vintage Ovi”?

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by J.P. on Nov 9, 2011 11:20 AM EST up reply actions  

hard to think back. but definitely the pens, flyers and 2nd hurricanes game

by aaw6848 on Nov 9, 2011 11:22 AM EST up reply actions  

So… three for 13? This is like going to see Wilco a half-dozen years ago versus now – then it was all high points with a few clunkers thrown in, and now it’s the other way around. Not good enough.

I mean, we’re 13 games in and the dude doesn’t have a single game in which he has both a goal and an assist.

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by J.P. on Nov 9, 2011 11:26 AM EST up reply actions   2 recs

That’s true. And I don’t disagree his point totals are low for him.

And this has gotten away from my initial and only point I was trying to make. That Ovechkin has, even if it hasn’t produced results, tried different things in his game.

by aaw6848 on Nov 9, 2011 11:28 AM EST up reply actions  

Ovechkin has, even if it hasn’t produced results, tried different things in his game.

I don’t think he has at all, besides being forced to play the slot on the PP by his coach.

by Kolzilla on Nov 9, 2011 11:29 AM EST up reply actions  

I think he’s changed it up a bit. Tried to pass more, tried to get wide on the right, for instance. It’s all part of an effort to score right now, versus settling in for a grinding shift, but it’s at least different from the cut-to-the-slot-and-shoot routine.

He still tries too many toe drags and too many rushes to his backhand.

Patron saint of quality footwear.

by fat_daddyo on Nov 9, 2011 11:35 AM EST up reply actions  

And if anything. we should be focussing on the real issue with this team right now. Defense.

Caps are averaging just under 4 goals per game. That isn’t our problem right now.

by aaw6848 on Nov 9, 2011 11:17 AM EST up reply actions  

We’re talented enough to focus on multiple issues at once.

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by J.P. on Nov 9, 2011 11:20 AM EST up reply actions  

I’m not jousting you in a sarcasm war, good try.

I just don’t think Ovechkin is as large of a concern as other issues at this point. And as I stated clearly before, some of peoples concerns, I feel, are unwarranted. That’s all.

by aaw6848 on Nov 9, 2011 11:25 AM EST up reply actions  

That’s fair. But when he’s the highest paid player and, more importantly, the team’s captain, he bears responsibility for what happens on the ice. He’s more than just the numbers he puts up, good and bad.

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by J.P. on Nov 9, 2011 11:27 AM EST up reply actions  

Absolutely, and again as I said to D’ohboy above, if the argument transitions into one that is about salary, then absolutely – ovechkin simply isn’t doing enough.

by aaw6848 on Nov 9, 2011 11:32 AM EST up reply actions  

Can’t we blame Ovechkin for some of the defensive ills? I was at the Carolina game last week and actually saw him below the faceoff circles on defense occasionally. That’s an improvement over hanging out waiting for the offensive rush, but if he’s not going to be involved in the game defensively – that’s an issue.

by STLEdge on Nov 9, 2011 12:23 PM EST up reply actions  

AO is not a dominant goal scoring machine right now. He probably never will be again. The question is whether he can elevate the other parts of his game – grind game, cycle game, defensive game, etc – to compensate for that lost production.

In short, can he take the Yzerman route?

So far, return are not positive.

Patron saint of quality footwear.

by fat_daddyo on Nov 9, 2011 11:27 AM EST up reply actions  

This is clear, concise and impossible to disagree with. I wish someone had said this to begin with rather than rah rah rah ovechkin only toe drags!

I can get on board with this. But I also think that if he changes the other parts of his game, it will open up things for offense that maybe he didn’t see before.

by aaw6848 on Nov 9, 2011 11:30 AM EST up reply actions  

I think there’s been ample hand-wringing about the state of the defense sans Mike Green.

Unleash the Apathy.

by D'ohboy on Nov 9, 2011 11:21 AM EST up reply actions  

But if the subtraction of mike green is enough to crumble our D like this, that’s a much bigger problem than ovechkin only being a PPG player.

At what point does Hammer sit? He ups his bonehead play count every game.

by aaw6848 on Nov 9, 2011 11:24 AM EST up reply actions  

Everyone whines about what has worked so well for him in the past. What? is he going to do something different every single game?

He doesn’t need to come up with the Next Great Move, but why can’t he skate the puck below the circles and start the cycle on the rush? If he just incorporated that move, many of the complaints would go away. But he doesn’t even bother to try that 95% of the time.

not always trying to push the slot, but carry the puck over the blue line to the opposite wing to try and pull defenders.

That’s the point, he needs to stop cutting to the high slot because it results in a turnover 50% of the time, even if he’s not trying to shoot.

by Kolzilla on Nov 9, 2011 11:10 AM EST up reply actions  

My point was that he hasn’t been trying to toe drag to the slot every time. I’ve noticed a couple times where he pretends he’s going to the slot but bounces over to the right wing quickly to try and confuse his assigned defender and maybe leave space for a trailing guy to be wide open. Maybe it didn’t work, but it’s different.

by aaw6848 on Nov 9, 2011 11:13 AM EST up reply actions  

Danke.

"My favorite fan base in D.C. Is United's. Period. The end." - Steinberg

"I worry that we're reaching that point where college-age kids don't know what goatse is anymore."

by Bald Pollack on Nov 9, 2011 7:29 AM EST up reply actions  

He can’t be demoted from the top line since the Caps top line by definition is the line with Ovi. (But, of course, ice time can be reduced.)

Rocking the Red for teams on the banks of the Potomac and at the Gateway Arch and Singing the Blues about Hockey.

by CapsFan75 on Nov 9, 2011 7:19 AM EST up reply actions  

Another game tied up after two periods. Another 3rd period where they give up 3 goals.

I know we all talk about playing a 60 minute game, but even if they’re only playing 30-50 I would prefer the last 20 of the game to be included in that.

"A picture is worth a thousand words. For moving pictures we manage to shorten it to one or two."

by Dimagus on Nov 9, 2011 6:54 AM EST reply actions  

Win every game.
Win every shootout.
Win every OT game.
Win every Conference game.
Win every game where a star player is sidelined.
Win every Division game.
Win every Western Conference game.
Win every game the refs steal from them.
Win every game while a handful of new players get with the program.
Win every game vs an inferior (on paper) opponent.
Win every back-to-back game.
Win every home game.
Win every game just by showing up.

An admirer noted: "I think it's safe to say that your mustache has experienced more than an ordinary man's entire body".

by Acer Jonesy's Laughker on Nov 9, 2011 7:04 AM EST reply actions   2 recs

So how hard will practice be today? Probably, very.

Will we be able to read the tea leaves for who the healthy scratch will be Friday?

1) If a “top liner” takes the day off as maintenance day and someone else takes their place, that someone else will be the healthy scratch. Unless it’s a former top line regular or typical top line replacement.

2) If someone normally on one of the top 3 lines is practicing with the 4th liners, he’ll be the healthy scratch

Rocking the Red for teams on the banks of the Potomac and at the Gateway Arch and Singing the Blues about Hockey.

by CapsFan75 on Nov 9, 2011 7:23 AM EST reply actions  

It’s Wednesday. They don’t play until Friday night. I wouldn’t try to guess at the scratch(es) based on today’s practice.

Hell, if it was me, I’m not sure I’d have a single puck out there today (though man alive could the D use work on breakouts).

Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world

by J.P. on Nov 9, 2011 7:27 AM EST up reply actions  

That’s today’s “accountability” moment. It wasn’t one player last night — it was a “team” loss in that pretty much everyone contributed. You can’t really punish with a scratch or reduced ice time based on that, but you can go all Herbie on them…if they’re not going to show up and skate for the game, well…we’ll just do it this morning.

If you've read this far...seek help.

by ThePeerless on Nov 9, 2011 7:29 AM EST up reply actions  

And since they don’t play again until Friday, no reason you can’t skate their asses off today.

by cainoo7x on Nov 9, 2011 10:47 AM EST up reply actions  

What do you get when you subtract Green and add Hammer, Sarge and Lumberjack? I’m not sure but it sure as hell isn’t speed.

by cainoo7x on Nov 9, 2011 10:46 AM EST up reply actions  

Okay, I’ll admit that it’s harder to guess scratches based on 2 days out. But we can probably guess on scratches based on the practice that’s the day before a game, provided there’s at least 2 days intervening between the previous game and the upcoming day.

Rocking the Red for teams on the banks of the Potomac and at the Gateway Arch and Singing the Blues about Hockey.

by CapsFan75 on Nov 9, 2011 5:56 PM EST up reply actions  

What could the caps get for semin at this point, top line RW and a 2nd round pick?

by Obi wan Knuble on Nov 9, 2011 7:38 AM EST via iPhone app reply actions  

Guessing a multiyear extension would have to be associated with a move, but more than likely it’s the devil you know > the one you don’t.

"My favorite fan base in D.C. Is United's. Period. The end." - Steinberg

"I worry that we're reaching that point where college-age kids don't know what goatse is anymore."

by Bald Pollack on Nov 9, 2011 7:46 AM EST up reply actions  

The teams that would want Semin don’t have anything the Caps want.

You tried your best and failed miserably. The lesson is "Never Try."

by apk3000 on Nov 9, 2011 7:58 AM EST up reply actions  

Sure they do: interest in Alex Semin.

Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world

by J.P. on Nov 9, 2011 8:00 AM EST up reply actions   3 recs

The Kings (or at least their fans) still want a top line winger for Kopitar. Dustin Brown might be available, and Dustin Penner certainly is. With Penner playing the way he is right now, though, I’m not sure he’s an upgrade on Brouwer. At least Brouwer is hitting people (second in the league w/ 49 hits, Penner has 21).

by Flash in the Pan on Nov 9, 2011 8:27 AM EST up reply actions  

Do. Not. Want. Penner.

But I’d do shameful things to get Dustin Brown.

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by J.P. on Nov 9, 2011 8:29 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Agreed. I liked Penner back when he was the young PF who helped the Ducks win a Cup his rookie season. No idea what’s happened to him since.

by Flash in the Pan on Nov 9, 2011 8:31 AM EST up reply actions  

Ok, JP, the shameful thing you have to do to get Brown is to also take on Penner’s contract…

Deal, or no deal?

Winnipeg? Winnipeg??? Oy! (And now it's official...)

by MikeL-Pivonka on Nov 9, 2011 9:48 AM EST up reply actions  

What goes the other way?

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by J.P. on Nov 9, 2011 9:49 AM EST up reply actions  

I think the subject was Mr. Semin.

Winnipeg? Winnipeg??? Oy! (And now it's official...)

by MikeL-Pivonka on Nov 9, 2011 10:02 AM EST up reply actions  

Semin for Brown and Penner? Done deal, and I hope Mr. Penner enjoys chocolate.

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by J.P. on Nov 9, 2011 10:03 AM EST up reply actions  

I could see that…. although does Penner clear waivers? There might be a team out there that claims him… (Carolina or Ottawa maybe…)

Winnipeg? Winnipeg??? Oy! (And now it's official...)

by MikeL-Pivonka on Nov 9, 2011 10:05 AM EST up reply actions  

Even better.

Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world

by J.P. on Nov 9, 2011 10:08 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Fair enough. Although, I’m sure Hershey would love to have him.

Winnipeg? Winnipeg??? Oy! (And now it's official...)

by MikeL-Pivonka on Nov 9, 2011 10:09 AM EST up reply actions  

I think Penner could be a useful player, actually. Not in the top-six, but third line for sure.

Red Line Station and @RedArmyLine, featuring coverage of the most frustrating team in the NHL
I believe in next year.

by red army line on Nov 9, 2011 1:19 PM EST up reply actions  

Maybe, but in this scenario? The Caps would lose Semin but pick up Dustin Brown… On the hypothetical roster Penner is 4th line at best…

Winnipeg? Winnipeg??? Oy! (And now it's official...)

by MikeL-Pivonka on Nov 9, 2011 1:50 PM EST up reply actions  

Ok
8-19-20
Brown-90-22
Penner-21-42
25-15-26/83/85

Cap hit complicates things, but I’d bring him up for the playoffs in a heartbeat (though not if he needs re-entry waivers).

Red Line Station and @RedArmyLine, featuring coverage of the most frustrating team in the NHL
I believe in next year.

by red army line on Nov 9, 2011 1:59 PM EST up reply actions  

I’d put Brown on the top line with Ovie. He has a much better offensive game than Brouwer. And at least for starters, I’d put Penner on the Mojo line too, and see if he can produce. If not, then I’d move him down the line up.

by Flash in the Pan on Nov 9, 2011 2:39 PM EST up reply actions  

Even if he does clear waivers, no problem if we don’t need him. Better than stashing him actually.

Proud member of the Popsicle Division of the Cupcake Conference.

by Bman21212 on Nov 9, 2011 10:08 AM EST up reply actions  

I think the El Cid Lounge Softball team would scoop him up first.

(Dean Lombardi is awesome)

Release the Mackan!

by Killer_Carlson on Nov 9, 2011 12:54 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

The last thing this team needs is a player who is only intermittently motivated. But yeah, Brown would be a severe upgrade in the intensity department.

If you've read this far...seek help.

by ThePeerless on Nov 9, 2011 8:30 AM EST up reply actions  

Semin for Flash, straight up

by DonnieKnutts on Nov 9, 2011 12:07 PM EST up reply actions  

Apparently, he was tied for the longest points streak in the league until it was snapped last night.

by Flash in the Pan on Nov 9, 2011 12:13 PM EST up reply actions  

Let’s give Dallas credit—they’ve got a good team with few superstars, but they beat the hell out of us at evens all night. But hat hurts the most was that third goal. We had that PK in the bag, with a key draw won, and then that entire foursome, most noticeably Nicky, got pwned…just all sorts of fail there.

Cross check and all call.

by bigonetimer on Nov 9, 2011 7:50 AM EST reply actions  

And sorry for the we’s….no mouse in pocket today.

Cross check and all call.

by bigonetimer on Nov 9, 2011 7:53 AM EST up reply actions  

I wouldn’t say most noticeably Nicky – Halpern won the draw, cleanly, but Hamrlik somehow managed to get beaten to the puck (bad first step, slow second one). Nick did get outworked in front, but the puck should never have even gotten there.

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by J.P. on Nov 9, 2011 7:58 AM EST up reply actions  

Love B Morrow, but hated him there. A money play by him.

Cross check and all call.

by bigonetimer on Nov 9, 2011 8:04 AM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, Morrow’s a guy I’ve often dreamt of in Red. Doan, Iginla… one of those three on the RW would make me giddy.

Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world

by J.P. on Nov 9, 2011 8:07 AM EST up reply actions  

But the Caps have their own highly talented RW that can play the front of the net in Alex Semin, apparently.

Once you take the fisting element out, it's not romantic anymore.

by Steckel Me Elmo on Nov 9, 2011 8:10 AM EST up reply actions  

Cripes, what exactly was that all about last night? Certainly not Semin acting on his own accord.

Cross check and all call.

by bigonetimer on Nov 9, 2011 9:59 AM EST up reply actions  

Folks usually associate sucess or failure on faceoffs with the center, but the Caps do an awful job of supporting the center and going after the puck when a center either ties up his counterpart, or the puck is still in the circle. To have them essentially “lose” the draw on a faceoff Halpern won is just plain bad.

If you've read this far...seek help.

by ThePeerless on Nov 9, 2011 8:29 AM EST up reply actions  

Yep, terrible.

And I agree on the larger point. I think it was maybe Olczyk who was lamenting that faceoffs shouldn’t even be kept as an individual stat, since they’re so often about support from the other skaters. That’s obviously hyperbolic, but the point stands.

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by J.P. on Nov 9, 2011 8:31 AM EST up reply actions  

And Carlson got caught in no man’s land. Not sure what he was doing on that play.

That puck just can’t get to the front of the net like it did.

As BOT noted, a whole lotta fail on that one.

It’s going to be real interesting to see how the Caps respond here.

Patron saint of quality footwear.

by fat_daddyo on Nov 9, 2011 9:04 AM EST up reply actions  

Not sure what he was doing on that play.

Over-compensated for Hamrlik? It’ll be interesting to see which defenseman sits when Green comes back. If the team is serious about accountability I don’t see how 44 doesn’t sit for at least a game.

by Yoshietree on Nov 9, 2011 9:25 AM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, I felt like Hamrlik should get a handful of games to try and work his game out – and the point was moot with Green out anyway – but at this point he’s a liabiliity.

It would help if the Caps had anything resembling structure in the neutral zone of course.

Patron saint of quality footwear.

by fat_daddyo on Nov 9, 2011 10:42 AM EST up reply actions  

While Hamerlik is playing much worse than Erskine, can you see a $4 million player (after only 12 games) sitting over a $1 million one?

by RCheli on Nov 9, 2011 10:50 AM EST up reply actions  

Short-term? Yes. Long-term? Probably not.

Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world

by J.P. on Nov 9, 2011 10:58 AM EST up reply actions  

I guess if this was game 50 and Hamerlik continued his sub-par ways, he will sit. But it just seems to early to give up on such a big investment.

by RCheli on Nov 9, 2011 11:03 AM EST up reply actions  

Agreed. They need to hope that he unfucks himself, and fast – they’re 13 games into a 164-plus-game marriage.

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by J.P. on Nov 9, 2011 11:05 AM EST up reply actions  

I wasn’t trying to imply they should give up on him. I was implying that he’s old, he’s slow and he’s playing bad hockey right now. There’s nothing wrong with giving him a couple games off to clear his head.

by Yoshietree on Nov 9, 2011 11:11 AM EST up reply actions  

The Caps have had a pretty easy schedule games-wise. This isn’t like it’s been 4 games in 7 days or something that would wear out an older player.

by RCheli on Nov 9, 2011 11:13 AM EST up reply actions  

I’m not saying the schedule has to do with it. He’s old and slow. Those are facts. He’s playing bad hockey right now…also fact. The Caps (as many have continually pointed out) play a different system than Montreal does. Maybe he needs more time to learn the system, but right now the schedule isn’t the problem with Hamrlik’s game…Hamrlik is the problem with Hamrlik’s game.

by Yoshietree on Nov 9, 2011 11:17 AM EST up reply actions  

Very true. I just don’t think that we’ll see him sit any time soon.

by RCheli on Nov 9, 2011 11:17 AM EST up reply actions  

$5 to the annual charity fund that he sits when Green gets back (assuming Erskine isn’t suspended)?

by Yoshietree on Nov 9, 2011 11:19 AM EST up reply actions  

I’ll take that bet.

by RCheli on Nov 9, 2011 11:20 AM EST up reply actions  

Email Red Birdie to get it on the record.

Please, call me F&B.

by Rob Parker on Nov 9, 2011 11:22 AM EST up reply actions  

And his TOI totals indicate the same. BB doesn’t seem to be nearly as frustrated with him as we are.

Please, call me F&B.

by Rob Parker on Nov 9, 2011 11:20 AM EST up reply actions  

That’s a good point…though I can’t understand how/why he isn’t.

by Yoshietree on Nov 9, 2011 11:25 AM EST up reply actions  

Like JP said, for the short-term it shouldn’t be an issue. I can’t imagine them doing it long-term unless the trend continues. Wasn’t circles and his $4+ million a healthy scratch for a buncha games towards the end of his time here?

And BB has been preaching accountability since this summer. Once Green is back, sitting Hamrlik for a game or two will continue that trend. Defensemen are going to get burnt once in a while, but at this stage Hamrlik is past that.

by Yoshietree on Nov 9, 2011 11:10 AM EST up reply actions  

This comes full Circles to discussions about a year ago, but yes.

Proud member of the Popsicle Division of the Cupcake Conference.

by Bman21212 on Nov 9, 2011 3:39 PM EST up reply actions  

So, I realized something the other day. The Caps are the Eagles of the NHL.

1. Each team’s star player is possibly the most talent player in their sport, but they don’t fit with the traditional image of their sport/position, are constantly over shadowed by players who do, and are constantly dogged by questions about their character and leadership ability. Neither has been playing well thus far.
2. Each team has it’s own offensive enigma, who, when at their best, can take over a game, but can often become invisible for long stretches, or even hurt their team. So far this year, both players have been trending AWOL.
3. In recent years each team faced doubts about their defenses, but appeared to answer them with big free agent signings. They looked great initially, but the wheels now appear to have come off.
4. Both teams’ GMs can acquit themselves well in the early rounds of the draft, but are incapable of finding good players with later picks, and tend to be active in free agency. They’re generally well respected by the fan bases, and are rarely assigned the blame for the teams’ failings.
5. Both teams’ coaches could be the best in franchise history (since neither franchise has won a championship), but are constantly on the hot seat because of their inability to win in the post-season and their perceived inability to make key adjustments and hold players accountable for their mistakes. The fan bases have a love-hate relationship with them, and if they don’t win this year, they’re totally gone (although that’s the same thing they said last year). Also, they’re both really fat.
6. Most importantly, they are both immensely talented teams who come into every year with high expectations, but seem to lack the ability to put away their opponents and win big games. When it really matters, be it in the 4th quarter or game 7, they collapse. It’s tough to tell if this is a product of poor coaching or soft players who just don’t care enough, but either way, it’s a criticism that will be ingrained in their public image until they win a championship.
7. Oh, and did I mention both of their mascots are anthropomorphized eagles?

Just to be clear, this isn’t me going off the deep end after the Caps past two losses. This is me going off the deep end after the Bears game. The Caps at least still have a shot at doing something this year.

by Flash in the Pan on Nov 9, 2011 8:29 AM EST reply actions   3 recs

“Dogged.”

Heh.

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by J.P. on Nov 9, 2011 8:32 AM EST up reply actions  

Also, comparing Ovechkin’s character to Mike Vick’s is patently offensive.

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by J.P. on Nov 9, 2011 8:33 AM EST up reply actions   2 recs

Well, if the “Ovi is fat” stuff over the summer was indicative of anything, Ovi was fighting hot dogs.

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by YvonLabresMoustache on Nov 9, 2011 10:29 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

I may have taken it a bit loosely there, but would you deny that both have had their character questioned (though for totally different reasons)?

by Flash in the Pan on Nov 9, 2011 10:39 AM EST up reply actions  

You can make that connection, but you’d have to be Stretch Armstrong to make it work.

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by YvonLabresMoustache on Nov 9, 2011 10:41 AM EST up reply actions  

No, I think that they both have (though one fairly and one much less so and for obviously much more trivial issues).

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by J.P. on Nov 9, 2011 10:41 AM EST up reply actions  

That’s why I didn’t say that they have character issues. What I mean is that in any discussion of the players, character concerns are brought up as a factor. In Vick’s case, they are much more justified than Ovie’s. Still, when people are trashing Ovie, they seem to bring up his off-season lifestyle and his perceived lack of leadership as often as people bring up Vick’s off the field issues when trashing him.

by Flash in the Pan on Nov 9, 2011 10:46 AM EST up reply actions  

I dunno. I kind of see the “trashing of Ovi” as being more of the “he hasn’t won anything” variety, rather than the Vick-style “character bashing”.

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by YvonLabresMoustache on Nov 9, 2011 10:49 AM EST up reply actions  

There’s a good amount of questioning Ovi’s work ethic and desire to better himself, and that’s character-related.

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by J.P. on Nov 9, 2011 10:50 AM EST up reply actions  

Well, yeah, but there’s a difference questioning character in relation to not winning titles and questioning character in regards to being a convicted felon is what I’m trying to say (awkwardly). They’re character-related issues that aren’t really comparable at all.

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by YvonLabresMoustache on Nov 9, 2011 10:56 AM EST up reply actions  

Agreed.

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by J.P. on Nov 9, 2011 10:56 AM EST up reply actions  

It’s like comparing a kitty cat to a tiger. They’re both felines, but they’re completely different animals.

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by YvonLabresMoustache on Nov 9, 2011 10:59 AM EST up reply actions  

constantly dogged by questions about their character and leadership ability.

I’m not comparing their character issues. My point is that their issues, real or perceived, are constantly played up whenever the player is being discussed in the media, and will likely follow them for the rest of their careers.

by Flash in the Pan on Nov 9, 2011 11:04 AM EST up reply actions  

I’m not comparing their character issues.

Yeah, but you might as well note that neither has hit a homerun in a Major League Baseball game as another similarity.

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by J.P. on Nov 9, 2011 11:06 AM EST up reply actions  

How many players have issues other than their on the field/ice play held under as much scrutiny as Ovie and Vick? I think it’s a fairly small group. The perception of Ovie as not being a team player is played up as a narrative to almost as much as Vick’s dog killing. Just look at the “Ovie benching” saga. For no other star player in hockey would that have blown up the way it did.

by Flash in the Pan on Nov 9, 2011 11:13 AM EST up reply actions  

Agreed. Scrutiny is high on a #1 pick who welcomes all the attention that’s available when things are going well.

But the difference here is what you noted – for Ovi, it’s narrative. For Vick, it’s more than that; it’s a criminal, immoral reality.

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by J.P. on Nov 9, 2011 11:15 AM EST up reply actions  

The eagles comparison might be OK if you were talking about their former quarterback—McNabb. He was a consistent winner in the regular season and considered an elite qb. But despite that success, could not get the Eagles over the hump. (Granted they went to the conf championships a couple times, but there was still the question of whether he had the work ethic, and nerve to win when it counted.)

by kingbonehead on Nov 9, 2011 2:11 PM EST up reply actions  

I think we’re getting to the inconvenient truth moment about Alex Ovechkin and this notion that he is “possibly the most talented player in [his] sport.” He is a very good player, but his go-to moves have been figured out, and he really hasn’t had an answer for teams who play their scheme against him diligently. His raw talent probably means 30-50-80, but those stratospheric numbers are going to require that he come up with a few other wrinkles in his game, and they just have not yet been forthcoming.

But as for character…Mike Vick and Alex Ovechkin in the same sentence? Probably want to rethink that one.

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by ThePeerless on Nov 9, 2011 8:35 AM EST up reply actions  

At what point do we start talking about Ovie being a “bad” contract? Not that he’s a bad player, but the return on investment doesn’t appear to be optimal given how Ovie is trending.

by Kolzilla on Nov 9, 2011 8:52 AM EST up reply actions  

At what point do we start talking about Ovie being a "bad" contract?

Probably during some off-season, when we can reflect upon what he’s done in his most recent playoff(s), since that’s ultimately what really matters at this point.

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by J.P. on Nov 9, 2011 8:58 AM EST up reply actions  

If the Caps win a Cup this year it will be the greatest contract in the history of the franchise…

…well, after Vokoun’s

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by ThePeerless on Nov 9, 2011 9:13 AM EST up reply actions  

indeed. i would even throw Backs contract ahead of Ovis.

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by BetterOffWith28 on Nov 9, 2011 9:53 AM EST up reply actions  

We can talk about now, imo. We should also be talking about the window to trade him. Unlike last year, we can’t blame his play on an injured hand or coming to camp out of shape. If this is the new Ovechkin rather than an aberration, then he certainly is not worth his contract. And if that is true, then is it better to trade him now while you still can before he becomes Lecavalier? Another full year of this play and who’s going to take him?

by Ginga on Nov 9, 2011 10:49 AM EST up reply actions  

I’m afraid his lack of domination has zippo to do with discipline or coaching. He just doesn’t have the jump he used to. A different coach might be able to instill some defensive awareness, or discipline, or what have you….but I highly doubt anyone can turn Ovechkin back into a 45 goal scorer. So the pie in the sky outcome is a more fundamentally sound 35 goal scorer? For 9.5 million and how many years? I don’t think it’s unreasonable at all to suggest that the intersection of trade value to on-ice value is already upon us.

by Ginga on Nov 9, 2011 11:12 AM EST up reply actions  

So the pie in the sky outcome is a more fundamentally sound 35 goal scorer?

That pie in the sky also includes three Cups… just ask Steve Yzerman.

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by J.P. on Nov 9, 2011 11:16 AM EST up reply actions   2 recs

Absolutely…this is not “Ovechkin has gone from world-class to world-suck in 60 seconds.” He is not a 100-point player at the moment. He is an 80-point player. 29 other teams in the league would drool over the prospect of having an 80-point player on their roster. I don’t happen to think that — at the moment — he is on the short list of “best hockey players on the planet,” and that has been true for 100 games. “Best hockey player on the planet” is actually a murky sort of subject. Not only is there not an obvious choice, the group you would consider is hard to define.

Could Ovechkin be more productive under another coach? If this nonsense continues until the All-Star break (nonsense as it pertains to the team under performing the way it has since the Detroit game), we’ll know.

This weekend we will have reached the 20-percent point of the season (16 of 82 games). The personality of the 2011-2012 Caps will be coming into focus. Right now, it still seems like a team that can turn it on for stretches (they put together winning streaks), but their focus wanders, and they exhibit bad habits too often. And it’s in many cases the same actors.

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by ThePeerless on Nov 9, 2011 11:28 AM EST up reply actions   2 recs

Right now, it still seems like a team that can turn it on for stretches (they put together winning streaks), but their focus wanders, and they exhibit bad habits too often.

So…same routine different year? If that’s the case then we have to start looking at who has been here the entire time these traits have existed, starting with the coach and next with the captain.

by Kolzilla on Nov 9, 2011 11:32 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

If this nonsense continues until the All-Star break (nonsense as it pertains to the team under performing the way it has since the Detroit game), we’ll know.

Unfortunately I think it’s going to take way more than just underperforming to get BB fired at the All Star break.

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by Killer_Carlson on Nov 9, 2011 1:08 PM EST up reply actions  

The contract by its nature is untradeable, really. Which was the whole point at the time of the signing; it made AO “the guy” in DC.

The Caps consider themselves a Cup contender. They would never get full value back on that contract, so trading AO would have to be part and parcel of blowing it up and starting over, which would mean they’d have to get rid of other significant assets. Just ain’t happening.

The Caps and AO are bound to each other for better or for worse, in sickness and in health until death shall part them.

Anyway, as JP notes the next person to get the axe will be BB.

I also think it’s worth noting that we’re talking about a run of 6 games here. Every team slumps like this. No team gives a good effort in 82 games. The Stars are rolling and the Caps are scuffling. I’d prefer the Caps were rolling, but eventually they will start rolling again. No time to panic.

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by fat_daddyo on Nov 9, 2011 11:00 AM EST up reply actions  

we’re talking about a run of 6 games here

Yes and no – we’re talking about a year-and-a-half or so that Ovi hasn’t been dominant.

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by J.P. on Nov 9, 2011 11:02 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

He has not been the same since 3/14/10 in Chicago…

by Boodgiesdad on Nov 9, 2011 11:05 AM EST up reply actions  

A lot of people point to that game. I’d point to the Snovechkin game, perhaps. And, of course, you had the whole Olympic disaster in between. It was certainly right in that ~one-month span that he seems to have fallen off a cliff.

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by J.P. on Nov 9, 2011 11:08 AM EST up reply actions  

I often sit close to the ice at VC, and one of my favorite parts of being down there was seeing the joy with which AO played the game. He doesn’t seem to be having fun like he once did.

by Boodgiesdad on Nov 9, 2011 11:16 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

I think that is it for me. Something changed. I miss how he used to celebrate every goal like it was his last, and ever teammate’s goal like it was his.

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by renstar on Nov 9, 2011 11:18 AM EST up reply actions  

Well, should he? Back then regular season accomplishments meant something (or so he/we thought). Now they don’t. There’s one place he can prove himself, and that’s in the playoffs. I’d imagine that takes some of the fun out of the 82 games that precede.

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by J.P. on Nov 9, 2011 11:18 AM EST up reply actions  

He has not, that’s true. We all knew that AO’s run of dominant goal scoring would end once he passed 25, though.

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by fat_daddyo on Nov 9, 2011 11:06 AM EST up reply actions  

Which is fine, but he should be the most dominant corsi player in hockey. I can accept 35+ goals. I can’t accept the turnovers, defensive miscues and carelessness with the puck if that’s the updated baseline of production.

by Kolzilla on Nov 9, 2011 11:26 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Right with you.

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by fat_daddyo on Nov 9, 2011 11:28 AM EST up reply actions  

Anyway, as JP notes the next person to get the axe will be BB

Absolutely. If he had been fired after the season, there probably wouldn’t have been a lot of strong complaints against it.

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by YvonLabresMoustache on Nov 9, 2011 11:02 AM EST up reply actions  

They should have let him go, but that’s water under the bridge at this point.

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by fat_daddyo on Nov 9, 2011 11:08 AM EST up reply actions  

I doubt people will ever stop questioning Michael Vick’s character, whether it’s fair or not. I don’t think there’s much to Ovi’s character that could be questioned unless you are applying a particular belief to his lifestyle (and presumably, to others’ lifestyles as well).

by jopierce on Nov 9, 2011 8:59 AM EST via iPhone app up reply actions  

I guess we could go with “Each team’s star player was once considered the most talented player in his sport”. As for the character thing, I’ll refer to my posts above. Character wise, I don’t think Vick and Ovie are in the same league. My point is they each face a lot of questions about who they are off the field, regardless of how valid they are.

by Flash in the Pan on Nov 9, 2011 10:49 AM EST up reply actions  

___

Stumbled upon some comments from Brett Hull on Ken Hitchcock (in light of Hitch’s new gig) that I thought were somewhat interesting and perhaps relevant:

"I came in kind of a free wheeler, I kind of played my own game. Within the system, I had a theory on what I had to do to get open and create some offense. When I got to Dallas, there was no ad-libbing. We had a game plan, there was a certain way we played and you were going to do it come hell or high water. It was a big adjustment for me. But when you see (Mike) Modano and you see (Joe) Nieuwendyk and (Jari) Lehtonen and (Sergei) Zubov play under that umbrella, it doesn’t take you long to figure out you’re going to do it and enjoy it and enjoy winning. That’s what happened.

"He is a fantastic hockey coach. The St. Louis Blues players are going to be prepared to win every night. He is meticulous with X’s and O’s and a game plan to challenge and beat your opponent every night. I don’t want to say (he is a) taskmaster, but there is no nonsense with Ken. You’re going to play, you’re going to play hard and you’re going to play within his system. If you do, you’re going to have a lot of success. And if you don’t, you’re probably going to try to have a lot of success on another team."

There’s more there at the link. But… yeah. Structure.

(And “Jere Lehtinen”)

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by J.P. on Nov 9, 2011 8:48 AM EST reply actions   1 recs

It’s not as if Hull has to sacrifice a lot of production to fit, either. He had 95 goals in three seasons, and it was in the “dead puck” era.

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by ThePeerless on Nov 9, 2011 9:20 AM EST up reply actions  

If you believe in “adjusted” goals (I think it’s interesting), Hull actually scored 106 “adjusted” goals in the three Dallas years after 116 in STL the three years prior – not a big drop off at all (though there it’s a little larger on a per-game basis, since he’d missed more time in STL).

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by J.P. on Nov 9, 2011 9:26 AM EST up reply actions  

(Sorry – link).

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by J.P. on Nov 9, 2011 9:29 AM EST up reply actions  

A big difference is that Ovi has never had a Modano or Nieuwendyk to watch. Also BB is not a taskmaster

by Beakers Lab on Nov 9, 2011 9:43 AM EST up reply actions  

Ovi has never had a Modano or Nieuwendyk to watch.

Not true – he had Fedorov, who’s in that class of player.

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by J.P. on Nov 9, 2011 9:46 AM EST up reply actions  

Feds was a great player, but he never saw eye-to-eye with many of his coaches, particularly Bowman. I think the point about Nieuwendyk and Modanov wasn’t that they were great, but that they were great players who flourished in a disciplined system, and actually enjoyed playing that way.

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by D'ohboy on Nov 9, 2011 10:28 AM EST up reply actions  

That’s fair. But the team made so much about Fedorov’s leadership and him showing players – especially a pair of young Russians – how to play the right way, that I thought it worth pointing out (also worth pointing out is that Feds had nothing but praise for Boudreau – Bruce certainly didn’t seem to be one of those coaches with whom Sergei had issues, his father’s comments notwithstanding).

Ovi hasn’t been totally adrift at sea without role models or mentors.

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by J.P. on Nov 9, 2011 10:34 AM EST up reply actions  

But the team made so much about Fedorov’s leadership and him showing players – especially a pair of young Russians – how to play the right way

And I, frankly, thought that entire narrative was absolute horseplop. Ovie and Semin didn’t change one iota during Fedorov’s tenure, and even if he did have a positive impact, none of it lingered after his departure.

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by D'ohboy on Nov 9, 2011 10:36 AM EST up reply actions  

Absolutely true, which goes to my point – the opportunities to take learn have been there, whether Fedorov, Arnott, etc.

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by J.P. on Nov 9, 2011 10:38 AM EST up reply actions  

The problem may have been that Fedorov came to the Capitals two years too late. Say what you will about Crosby living with Lemieux or Malkin living with Gonchar or Staal with Recchi, but it happened when they first came into the league.

by RCheli on Nov 9, 2011 11:01 AM EST up reply actions  

I did think Semin got a lot better defensively while Fedorov was here, but that might be just due to age and being healthier than in 07-08.

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by red army line on Nov 9, 2011 1:25 PM EST up reply actions  

Ovi hasn’t been totally adrift at sea without role models or mentors.

Duly noted, though it’s tough to discern whether Fedorov had a tangible effect on Ovie’s performance, or whether he used to be elite at that time because the league hadn’t adjusted to his go-to move yet.

Ovie also had Arnott taking him out to dinner last season.

by Kolzilla on Nov 9, 2011 10:36 AM EST up reply actions  

I agree on the last point though. I just don’t think it really matters. He is what he is.

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by D'ohboy on Nov 9, 2011 10:37 AM EST up reply actions  

Is Modanov over in the KHL now? (I kid.)

Fedorov may not have liked Bowman, but he certainly played within his system.

by RCheli on Nov 9, 2011 10:58 AM EST up reply actions  

but he certainly played within his system.

Not at all times, and most definitely not without complaint.

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by D'ohboy on Nov 9, 2011 11:01 AM EST up reply actions  

Right, and it was one of the big reasons why he signed that offer sheet with … Columbus? … that nobody expected the Red Wings to match.

But as much as he complained during his time in Detroit and as much as he tried to get away from Bowman’s system, he won three Cups.

No player — especially not great player — ever fully adheres to a coach’s system.

by RCheli on Nov 9, 2011 11:07 AM EST up reply actions  

(Carolina)

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by J.P. on Nov 9, 2011 11:08 AM EST up reply actions  

Carolina.

Please, call me F&B.

by Rob Parker on Nov 9, 2011 11:08 AM EST up reply actions  

Carolina!

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by YvonLabresMoustache on Nov 9, 2011 11:10 AM EST up reply actions  

In my mind.

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by fat_daddyo on Nov 9, 2011 11:11 AM EST up reply actions  

Oh, my sweet.

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by J.P. on Nov 9, 2011 11:13 AM EST up reply actions  

Gone to

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by YvonLabresMoustache on Nov 9, 2011 11:17 AM EST up reply actions  

Watching Shanny execute the left-wing lock would make me disagree. Same thing goes for Sakic and Forsberg playing the trap under Hartley. And Hull playing the system for Hitch.

Great players – the truly great – are usually only great when they DO play within their coaches’ systems.

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by D'ohboy on Nov 9, 2011 11:16 AM EST up reply actions  

but the great player needs a coach with a system that fits the team and works and a coach who can teach/enforce the system, yes?

by kingbonehead on Nov 9, 2011 2:15 PM EST up reply actions  

I’m sure it will surprise no one to learned that Fedorov also clashed with Mike Babcock when they were in Anaheim.

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by RedBirdie on Nov 9, 2011 11:27 AM EST up reply actions  

More to the point, how often do we hear players on the Caps (such as Ward) talk about how they learned to do the “little things” right under other coaches? (In Ward’s case, Kevin Constantine and Barry Trotz). How often are we reminded that what little defensive acumen most of the Caps have is a residue from some other coaching staff they played for?

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by D'ohboy on Nov 9, 2011 10:34 AM EST up reply actions  

That’s a fact, certainly among the forwards (which is mildly surprising, given Dean Evason’s presence).

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by J.P. on Nov 9, 2011 10:37 AM EST up reply actions  

And for the Caps’ stars, most of that went out when Hanlon did.

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by apk3000 on Nov 9, 2011 10:44 AM EST up reply actions  

Dump Semin

I was at the game yesterday, and while the whole team played poorly, Semin was by far the worst. His stupid penalties directly led to 2 goals. For how much he’s making, we could get someone who is consistently good, not just once in a while. Semin has got to go.

by futbolclif on Nov 9, 2011 9:41 AM EST reply actions  

And bring in whom?

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by Bald Pollack on Nov 9, 2011 9:45 AM EST up reply actions  

Didn’t they score 2 while he was in the box? If not, then my bad. Also, instead of “Yeah no,” how about explaining or giving your opinion instead of just blatantly disagreeing.

by futbolclif on Nov 9, 2011 10:04 AM EST up reply actions  

They scored one with him in the box and killed off the other.

I thought Hamrlik, at a minimum, was worse. Carlson might have been also.

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by J.P. on Nov 9, 2011 10:08 AM EST up reply actions  

Thanks. Next time try that 1st instead of being condescending. Will prob help new readers like myself actually want to continue reading and participating in your blog.

by futbolclif on Nov 9, 2011 10:18 AM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, my bad, I really shouldn’t expect any sort of civility from bloggers. I keep forgetting this is the internet. Oh well.

by futbolclif on Nov 9, 2011 10:26 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

There’s plenty of civility here. If there wasn’t, I doubt we’d have the amazing community we have.

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by J.P. on Nov 9, 2011 10:27 AM EST up reply actions   2 recs

Early in the game, Semin had this vibe of desperately wanting to score a goal. And then he did score a goal, and his focus just seemed to…trail off. So at the least, Semin has that first part of the game where he was one of the better Caps playing.

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by CapitalCentre on Nov 9, 2011 12:05 PM EST up reply actions  

He did hit a pipe in the second.

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by fat_daddyo on Nov 9, 2011 12:09 PM EST up reply actions  

nice

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by sami426 on Nov 9, 2011 12:11 PM EST up reply actions  

I think he hit the pipe just before his penalty in the third, too.

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by J.P. on Nov 9, 2011 12:12 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

For real, or is this an allusion to smoking crack?

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by fat_daddyo on Nov 9, 2011 12:29 PM EST up reply actions  

He did actually hit a pipe (attached to the goal) in the second period, and that shot bugged me to no end. He had plenty of time, Lehtonen was down so he had the whole top half of the goal to shoot, and…. he goes for that tiny top corner that he loves to shoot at. Why couldn’t he just go for a higher percentage shot?

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by bagace on Nov 9, 2011 12:39 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, that’s what I was referring to. Looked like Lehtonen was on the angle, taking away the bottom of the net, a D was blocking the far side angle, so 28 shot for what he had available?

Lehtonen was pretty sharp last night, so I can understand a sniper aiming for a corner. When he’s on, he picks it. When he’s not…ping!

As for his penalty, I can live with a hook in the D zone from time to time. Not ideal, obviously, but it happens. It would be nice if the PK hadn’t returned to 09 – 10 form so thoroughly, though.

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by fat_daddyo on Nov 9, 2011 12:50 PM EST up reply actions  

The latter. My delivery needs work.

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by J.P. on Nov 9, 2011 1:24 PM EST up reply actions  

The first goal of the third was just about a PPG, it happened at the same time Wideman’s penalty expired. (Wideman’s Over the Glass penalty was at 18:24 of the second, the first goal of the third was at 0:24, exactly 2 minutes…)

Winnipeg? Winnipeg??? Oy! (And now it's official...)

by MikeL-Pivonka on Nov 9, 2011 9:52 AM EST up reply actions  

Right, but I think the point of contention here is Semin’s “penalties directly led to 2 goals.”

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by J.P. on Nov 9, 2011 9:54 AM EST up reply actions  

Agreed… was just clarifying what Seth posted. :)

Winnipeg? Winnipeg??? Oy! (And now it's official...)

by MikeL-Pivonka on Nov 9, 2011 10:02 AM EST up reply actions  

Thanks for the clarification, it was just about a PPG there.

by SethB on Nov 9, 2011 10:05 AM EST up reply actions  

I don’t Wideman had even hit the ice when the goal was scored…. he skated the skate of shame regardless, although anyone who gets a Delay of Game/Over the Glass penalty in DC has plausible deniability about it being their fault…

Winnipeg? Winnipeg??? Oy! (And now it's official...)

by MikeL-Pivonka on Nov 9, 2011 10:08 AM EST up reply actions  

Semin was bad. Hamrlik was worse. Once Green is healthy I’d like to see Hamrlik benched for a few games. I’m not sure what the pairings would be though.

Tu ne cede malis

by _Skullduggery_ on Nov 9, 2011 9:56 AM EST up reply actions  

How about 52-55, 74-27, 6-4. Boom.

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by J.P. on Nov 9, 2011 9:57 AM EST up reply actions  

God bless it do we need Green back

by Obi wan Knuble on Nov 9, 2011 10:02 AM EST up reply actions  

And the story takes a turn…suddenly, the prospect of losing Mike Green causes Caps fans’ blood to curdle.

If you've read this far...seek help.

by ThePeerless on Nov 9, 2011 10:02 AM EST up reply actions  

I’m not too worried about it, Green will definitely be healthy for the playoffs so the team should be fine.

by Kolzilla on Nov 9, 2011 10:04 AM EST up reply actions  

The way he is able to get the puck up and down the ice with a quickness is definitely something the caps miss right now

by Obi wan Knuble on Nov 9, 2011 10:06 AM EST up reply actions  

And will be healthy for at least one whole playoff game period shift!

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by Bman21212 on Nov 9, 2011 10:19 AM EST up reply actions  

I was thinking to another team, since he is an RFA after this season.

If you've read this far...seek help.

by ThePeerless on Nov 9, 2011 11:33 AM EST up reply actions  

Schultz didn’t exactly look stellar last night, either.

Unleash the Apathy.

by D'ohboy on Nov 9, 2011 10:29 AM EST up reply actions  

No, he didn’t. But he had team-high minutes against Benn/Ryder and was on for one ES GA against that group. Carlson was on for 1.6 minutes against them and was on for two. Schultz wasn’t great with the puck (got pick-pocketed at least twice), but was decent without it.

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by J.P. on Nov 9, 2011 10:35 AM EST up reply actions  

His inability to hold onto the puck led directly to one goal and a couple of pretty damn good scoring chances. He wasn’t the Caps’ worst defenseman by far, however. He can thank Hamrlik for that. Jesus Jones that guy looks atrocious.

Unleash the Apathy.

by D'ohboy on Nov 9, 2011 10:39 AM EST up reply actions  

Yep, I was in the “give him 10 games to adjust” camp. Now I’m in the “make him the 7 D” camp. If he comes around then great but I’m starting to lose faith in the Hammer.

by Kolzilla on Nov 9, 2011 10:42 AM EST up reply actions  

Hamrlik is dishearteningly bad, I did not expect him to be this bad at all. I was all for giving him ~10 games to get up to speed but I just haven’t seen anything I like yet.

by Beakers Lab on Nov 9, 2011 10:41 AM EST up reply actions  

as bad as Hamrlik is…..good god, Wideman makes me scream.

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by RedBirdie on Nov 9, 2011 11:28 AM EST up reply actions  

He at least scores to make up for it. And my god, the power play looks infinitely better with him on the point than Ovechkin.

by Joran on Nov 9, 2011 11:50 AM EST up reply actions  

But that’sbeen Wideman’s MO since his time in Boston. He has the ability to contribute offensively and when he’s “on” isn’t too much of a liability in the defensive zone.

by Yoshietree on Nov 9, 2011 11:50 AM EST up reply actions  

I’m with you, we know what we are getting with Wideman. Hamrlik was supposed to be a sound defenseman and the only sound we are getting from him is the psshhhh of the air leaking from his tires.

by Beakers Lab on Nov 9, 2011 12:34 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

If Hamr can block shots in the playoffs like he did to the Caps a couple springs ago, I’ll be happy.

Just trying to capture the spirit of the thing...

by dcsportsfan1 on Nov 9, 2011 12:23 PM EST up reply actions  

If the Caps can play a tight disciplined game in the playoffs like the Canadiens did a couple springs ago, I’ll be happy.

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by Bman21212 on Nov 9, 2011 3:52 PM EST up reply actions  

Ehh…I don’t care how disciplined they play (in the context of systems, not PIMs) as long as they win, which probably means they’re better than the other team. Montreal was disciplined, but not all that good.

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by red army line on Nov 9, 2011 4:11 PM EST up reply actions  

Not that good, but they won. Everyone knows the Caps ooze talent. They win a lot of games based on that alone. But if they actually played as a disciplined team (and yes, talking about systems not PIMs) they’d be unstoppable.

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by Bman21212 on Nov 9, 2011 8:40 PM EST up reply actions  

Brian Curran

I have a Curran story. A buddy of mine used to live in Monroe, Louisiana (he was an economics professor at NE Louisiana, now Louisiana-Monroe… he’s since moved on to Southwest Missouri State..)

Anyway, he invites me down because Monroe had gotten a team on the old Western Pro Hockey League. The WPHL was a league set up to play in the old rodeo rings from New Mexico to Louisiana, and eventually there were teams all the way to Mississippi. The team in Monroe, the Moccasins (the snakes not the shoes) had a game when I visited against the El Paso Buzzards (really!) and the Moc’s captain was… Brian Curran. I was there in my old Dale Hunter jersey and Curran nodded when he saw it. Pretty cool. We chatted a little after the game and he said he enjoyed playing in Washington (Landover at the time he was here) but despite the busses and such in the WPHL, he loved being in Monroe. Unfortunately Monroe didn’t love hockey and they were out of business by 2001, despite having a winning season all of the years of their existence.

Winnipeg? Winnipeg??? Oy! (And now it's official...)

by MikeL-Pivonka on Nov 9, 2011 10:01 AM EST reply actions  

Nice story. Want another awesome Curran nugget?

Check out who led the team for whom he played 23 games in 1987-88 in scoring.

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by J.P. on Nov 9, 2011 10:19 AM EST up reply actions  

(Sorry, 8 games, not 23. Still awesome.)

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by J.P. on Nov 9, 2011 10:19 AM EST up reply actions  

Also interesting is Curran’s 8 games, 43 PIMs… busy boy…

Winnipeg? Winnipeg??? Oy! (And now it's official...)

by MikeL-Pivonka on Nov 9, 2011 11:18 AM EST up reply actions  

Living up to Vukota’s example on that team, I guess… 52 games, 372 PIMs

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by AMusingFool on Nov 9, 2011 1:22 PM EST up reply actions  

I know better than to blame Neuvy for a couple bad goals but hell...

He looked unsettled – probably as a byproduct of his tyeammates not getting it done on front of him but he never looked calm in the crease to me.

I hated to watch that 3rd period more than the VAN game. Just complete and utter breakdowns in goal and in front.

Both DAL and VAN games tied going into the 3rd after Caps getting back to even – shameful collapses in both situations.

by S h a g g y on Nov 9, 2011 10:08 AM EST reply actions  

Not-so-fun fact: in his last eight appearances (including the playoffs), Neuvy is 2-6-0/3.63/.879.

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by J.P. on Nov 9, 2011 10:10 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

I saw it the same way. He looked good when the play was in front of him, but when it got in close or behind him he seemed to be flustered.

by SethB on Nov 9, 2011 10:20 AM EST up reply actions  

Neuvy was hung out to dry on multiple occasions. However, the one goal where he did not even slide over was particularly bad. I guess he thought the puck was tied up in his pads somewhere.

Tu ne cede malis

by _Skullduggery_ on Nov 9, 2011 11:08 AM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, he lost the puck. It happens but he’s still at fault. He played Ryder’s 2nd a bit too aggressively as well. Nystrom’s was unstoppable and the other 2 were klassic Kaps Keystone Kops defensive moments.

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by sydtron on Nov 9, 2011 11:14 AM EST up reply actions  

I didn’t like the rebound on the Benn goal but I’m not exactly sure what it hit. Came out awfully fast for a puck off the goalie pads.

Please, call me F&B.

by Rob Parker on Nov 9, 2011 11:15 AM EST up reply actions  

I pin that mostly on a beautiful long pass catching the Caps a bit flat footed and then no one communicating in the defensive zone. Benn (I think) circled behind the net and it turned into a fustercluck, people lost their marks and Neuvy had to make a save. It would have been nice if he could have kicked it out short side because he had help there. Still, it was Schultz or his D partner that should have been watching for Benn instead of meddling about near the slot.

Comrades, leave me here a little, while as yet 't is early morn:
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by sydtron on Nov 9, 2011 11:18 AM EST up reply actions  

Btw, on a somewhat administrative note, the Kundratek trade provides a good opportunity to really get the most out of the SBN platform. Click on the kid’s name and you’ll get plenty of info on him and everything that’s been written about him by the blog(s) that know him best. Good stuff.

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by J.P. on Nov 9, 2011 10:13 AM EST reply actions   1 recs

Some noise going around on Twitter now that Erskine may get suspended for his hit on Daley last night.

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by YvonLabresMoustache on Nov 9, 2011 10:31 AM EST reply actions  

I was afraid of that, but I am not familiar enough with The Lumberjack’s history to know if he is deemed a repeat offender.

by SethB on Nov 9, 2011 10:32 AM EST up reply actions  

See, this is why we need goons. If Dallas had one on the ice, Erskine would have never hit Daley!?!1

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by YvonLabresMoustache on Nov 9, 2011 10:33 AM EST up reply actions  

I think his only chance at mercy from Shanahan is that Daley was bent over and moving into the hit. Note I did not say this was a very good chance or a strong argument but it wasn’t like Erskine went high to hit him, Daley’s head was just above waist level at the time of the hit.

by Beakers Lab on Nov 9, 2011 10:45 AM EST up reply actions  

Precisely what I was trying to say in the recap thread. I won’t hold my breath, but Daley’s head was very low. I also mentioned that it appeared that Erskine was apologetic after the hit, not that intent really matters.

Tu ne cede malis

by _Skullduggery_ on Nov 9, 2011 11:10 AM EST up reply actions  

I tweeted it at the time.

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by J.P. on Nov 9, 2011 10:35 AM EST up reply actions  

Was running through my head too (no pun intended) when I saw the play. “Uh oh…he’s probably going to get suspended for that.” I was shocked, frankly, that he didn’t get 4 at a minimum. Hell, Parenteau got 5 the other night.

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by YvonLabresMoustache on Nov 9, 2011 10:37 AM EST up reply actions  

The 4 would have to have been 2 for boarding and 2 for illegal hit to the head, since there is no double minor for boarding. I’d have been OK with it too. He hit him in a dangerous area (close to the boards) and hit him in the head.

I don’t think he intended to hit the head, and I think there might be one of those pesky ‘changes in direction’ that contributed as well. I think a fine is most likely, but a not-so-outside chance of a game or two suspension.

↑ ↑ ↓ ↓ ← → ← → b a (select) start

by renstar on Nov 9, 2011 10:57 AM EST up reply actions  

There’s no double minor for boarding? Wow.

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by YvonLabresMoustache on Nov 9, 2011 10:59 AM EST up reply actions  

I’m assuming there is no double minor for boarding since they can hand out a major for boarding.

by cainoo7x on Nov 9, 2011 11:01 AM EST up reply actions  

My Aunt Hortense once got a major for hoarding.

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by YvonLabresMoustache on Nov 9, 2011 11:03 AM EST up reply actions  

Given that high-sticking can get double-minor or major (at least theoretically; it might take decapitation to actually get that call, at this point), don’t think that’s really it.

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by AMusingFool on Nov 9, 2011 1:26 PM EST up reply actions  

Yup, as far as I know, high sticking is the only infraction that the ‘double minor’ exists for.

For boarding, the proper choice is either the minor or the major.

Frankly, the idea of the double minor for high sticking is stupid too, particularly the way it is enforced. “Is he bleeding or not” should not be the decision making factor. There should be a minor for incidental lack of stick control, and a major for flagrant or reckless use of the stick.

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by renstar on Nov 9, 2011 11:06 AM EST up reply actions  

Double minors are all stick-related short of slashing — spearing, high sticking and butt-ending. I think those penalties only exist as a double, too.

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by sydtron on Nov 9, 2011 11:08 AM EST up reply actions  

Huh. Learn something new every day. To be honest, I’ve only rarely seen a spearing call, and I think I’ve never seen a butt-ending call. I don’t think I’ve seen a double minor for anything other than high sticking.

Also head-butting, of all things, is a potential double minor. How the hell did Kaleta get away without a double minor (or even a single minor) for that one…

For the curious: http://www.nhl.com/ice/page.htm?id=26544

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by renstar on Nov 9, 2011 11:11 AM EST up reply actions  

Oh didn’t realize head butting was in there too. Thankfully we don’t see them much, spearing and butt-ending are up there with slewfooting in “ease of injury” factor.

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by sydtron on Nov 9, 2011 11:12 AM EST up reply actions  

I think the last butt-end I saw in hockey was the one Denis Lemieux gave to Jim Carr in “Slap Shot”.

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by YvonLabresMoustache on Nov 9, 2011 11:14 AM EST up reply actions  

I saw Billy Smith, the Islanders Hall of Fame goalie, butt-end Lindy Ruff when he was playing for the Rangers. Ruff turned around and jumped on Smith and started pounding on him. Ruff got 5 for fighting, Smith got 5 for butt-ending, 5 for fighting (even though he was pretty much a punching bag for the fight) and a game misconduct.

Winnipeg? Winnipeg??? Oy! (And now it's official...)

by MikeL-Pivonka on Nov 9, 2011 11:23 AM EST up reply actions  

Brent Burns butt-ended Steve Bernier last year, though I think all parties involved recognized it was unintentional.

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by Wheeler on Nov 9, 2011 11:38 AM EST up reply actions  

Didnt Dave Forbes butt-end Henry Boucha?

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by redlineblue on Nov 9, 2011 12:03 PM EST up reply actions  

Wasn’t Avery called for a butt ending call wheen he clipped Juice on an icing call?

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by Steve-R on Nov 9, 2011 11:20 AM EST up reply actions  

Spearing is rarely called because it is very infrequent. Players know that if they get a reputation as someone who spears (or butt-ends) they won’t get help from their teams’ enforcers if they get into a situation.

The Code says you stand up for your teammates, sure, but if a teammate does something that can seriously injure (or in the case of spearing, kill) someone, you can stand down.

Winnipeg? Winnipeg??? Oy! (And now it's official...)

by MikeL-Pivonka on Nov 9, 2011 11:22 AM EST up reply actions  

And the Code means dick right now.

AO has been on the bad side of two spears to his nuts. What was the “Code” response to either? Were either of them even called a PIM?

My theory is that spears are rarely called because most NHL refs don’t have the stones to call it unless they absolutely have to.

Please, call me F&B.

by Rob Parker on Nov 9, 2011 11:24 AM EST up reply actions  

I’ll never forget, or forgive, Briere’s spearing of Ovechkin and subsequent hiding behind two defensemen. Filthy filthy and bitch move.

by Yoshietree on Nov 9, 2011 11:26 AM EST up reply actions  

I don’t get the last part. If it is true, why wouldn’t they want to make that call? It just seems like there is something old-school going on there…

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by renstar on Nov 9, 2011 11:28 AM EST up reply actions  

I really don’t know, I just think Refs don’t want to make controversial calls. Spearing, butt-ending, even diving (for 29 teams) are pretty extraordinary calls and you see most of those go uncalled. Butt-ending is at least very easy to hide so you can’t fault Refs for not always catching those.

Please, call me F&B.

by Rob Parker on Nov 9, 2011 11:31 AM EST up reply actions  

I initially thought the HS call that Ward took on Kesler – VAN head snap! – was a butt end that was disguised inside the edge of the glove. Didn’t think so after the video, but that’s how butt ends happen in my experience.

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by fat_daddyo on Nov 9, 2011 11:38 AM EST up reply actions  

Oh I know. They are just rare enough that I can’t think of any off the top of my head. As Rob said below, i think those two calls, plus slew-footing, are calls that refs just don’t want to make, for whatever reason. Add that to the rarity of the actual foul and you just don’t see them called.

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by renstar on Nov 9, 2011 11:26 AM EST up reply actions  

and again, I say there should be a double minor for boarding. That was a particularly egregious boarding because of the location of the hit and the contact to the head.

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by sydtron on Nov 9, 2011 10:59 AM EST up reply actions  

There is no need for a new rule when proper enforcement of an existing one will suffice. Call him for both the boarding and the hit to the head.

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by renstar on Nov 9, 2011 11:02 AM EST up reply actions  

They didn’t, and that was a pretty clear situation that someone needs to sit for 4 minutes. Something needs to be done, that much we agree on.

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by sydtron on Nov 9, 2011 11:06 AM EST up reply actions  

Not sure you can call two minor penalties for the same act.

Just trying to capture the spirit of the thing...

by dcsportsfan1 on Nov 9, 2011 11:27 AM EST up reply actions  

Happens all the time… one guy slashes another and then they each smack each other across the chops. One gets a rouging minor, the other guy gets a slash and a rough.

Winnipeg? Winnipeg??? Oy! (And now it's official...)

by MikeL-Pivonka on Nov 9, 2011 1:53 PM EST up reply actions  

The slash and the rough in your example are two different acts. You won’t see a guy get a roughing penalty just for slashing. Usually it’s a slash and then extra-curriculars get the roughing penalty.

Just trying to capture the spirit of the thing...

by dcsportsfan1 on Nov 9, 2011 2:45 PM EST up reply actions  

I doubt he’ll get a suspension but wouldn’t be suprised by a fine. Definitetly hit to the head, but can’t say it was targetted and it was a legit hit in that they were both battling for the puck. Also, the Dallas player was not hurt and I don’t think Erskine has a history of suspensions.

Just trying to capture the spirit of the thing...

by dcsportsfan1 on Nov 9, 2011 11:26 AM EST up reply actions  

Katie reports that Erskine will not be suspended.

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by RedBirdie on Nov 9, 2011 12:39 PM EST up reply actions  

Amazing they got this right.

Tu ne cede malis

by _Skullduggery_ on Nov 9, 2011 1:31 PM EST up reply actions  

Shanny’s been much better than the previous administration. At least when there is a suspension he explains in great detail why a player is being suspended. I think he’s been good.

The best was how he dodged mention Wisniewski’s gesture by saying that he had been suspended before, but leaving out why…

Winnipeg? Winnipeg??? Oy! (And now it's official...)

by MikeL-Pivonka on Nov 9, 2011 1:54 PM EST up reply actions  

Wisniewski had previously been suspended eight games, about eighteen months prior to the most recent incident, for trying to take Brent Seabrook’s head off. I recall a later interview with Shanahan where he said that was the suspension he really took into account.

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by Wheeler on Nov 9, 2011 1:57 PM EST up reply actions  

I’m not a big NBA fan, but this lockout thing has me terrified of the Pandora’s Box that’s going to be opened at the next NHL CBA negotiaions. There’s more than a few teams (like Dallas) that are losing even more money than NBA teams, AND the owners have a much more favorable split in the league revenues. I can’t think the owners are going to try to make that split wider, but they may claim they need to (I think it’s 57/43, but I could be wrong on that).

I’m trying not to be overly fatalistic about it, but at the same time, I’m just trying to enjoy all the hockey I can. /sigh

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by YvonLabresMoustache on Nov 9, 2011 10:40 AM EST reply actions  

The Players’ Share is 57%.

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by apk3000 on Nov 9, 2011 10:48 AM EST up reply actions  

Is it? Hoo boy.

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by YvonLabresMoustache on Nov 9, 2011 10:49 AM EST up reply actions  

Here we go:

What will be the players’ share of League-wide revenues?

The players’ share will be 54% to the extent League revenues in any year are below $2.2 billion; 55% when League revenues are between $2.2 billion and $2.4 billion; 56% when League revenues are between $2.4 billion and $2.7 billion, and 57% when League revenues in any year exceed $2.7 billion.

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by YvonLabresMoustache on Nov 9, 2011 10:51 AM EST up reply actions  

Bit of a head scratcher...

Why didn’t BB re-unite Carlzner when going against a team with a red hot first line with two superstars…

by Sjomin on Nov 9, 2011 11:06 AM EST reply actions  

I’d wondered the same thing, but Alzner-Schultz had done a decent job on top lines lately, and they did an OK job last night, for the most part.

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by J.P. on Nov 9, 2011 11:09 AM EST up reply actions  

Let’s test the limits of Alzner’s strength. Next up: 27/44.

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by Rob Parker on Nov 9, 2011 11:11 AM EST up reply actions  

27/89!

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by sydtron on Nov 9, 2011 11:14 AM EST up reply actions  

27 and 3. In his current state.

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by YvonLabresMoustache on Nov 9, 2011 11:16 AM EST up reply actions  

27-21….desperate times, desperate measures.

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by ThePeerless on Nov 9, 2011 11:35 AM EST up reply actions  

27-91… might as well go all-in.

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by J.P. on Nov 9, 2011 11:35 AM EST up reply actions  

27-5…Rod’s still around.

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by ThePeerless on Nov 9, 2011 11:49 AM EST up reply actions  

Poti in a wheelchair could possibly still be faster than Hamrlik, so I’ll take this under “desperate measures.”

by jopierce on Nov 9, 2011 11:39 AM EST via iPhone app up reply actions  

kcarrera Katie Carrera
Seven minute skate to start practice followed by one-on-one work in the corners, along the boards. #Caps

And we’re off!

bmcnally14 Brian McNally
Everybody on the ice at #Caps practice save Jay Beagle. They’re skating right now. Plan for later: I’m guessing more skating. Good times!

Can’t believe Beagle is skipping practice after last night’s debacle!

by Kolzilla on Nov 9, 2011 11:35 AM EST reply actions  

More skating it is…

@TarikElBashir Tarik El-Bashir
#Caps practice has been going for about 20 minutes. Suicides, followed by 11 separate one-on-one battles. Players hunched over already.

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by sami426 on Nov 9, 2011 11:44 AM EST up reply actions  

It’s like that scene in Miracle!

RAMPAGE

by JediChewbacca on Nov 9, 2011 11:48 AM EST up reply actions  

again….FWEEEEEEEEEEEET

again…FWEEEEEEEEEEEET

If you've read this far...seek help.

by ThePeerless on Nov 9, 2011 11:50 AM EST up reply actions  

How does the metaphor work if we have Russians on our team though?

RAMPAGE

by JediChewbacca on Nov 9, 2011 11:51 AM EST up reply actions  

One dude’s opinion regarding the effectiveness of bag skates, fwiw: http://www.tsn.ca/blogs/ray_ferraro/?id=294636

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by J.P. on Nov 9, 2011 11:49 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

And it’s not like BB hasn’t tried this every season, usually right around this time. What else is BB gonna do? Cut a star player’s ice time?

by Kolzilla on Nov 9, 2011 11:52 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

He is just ignoring the conditioning component…

RAMPAGE

by JediChewbacca on Nov 9, 2011 11:52 AM EST up reply actions  

They were clearly expecting it today. Would love to see BB do it again tomorrow when they probably aren’t expecting it.

Just trying to capture the spirit of the thing...

by dcsportsfan1 on Nov 9, 2011 12:10 PM EST up reply actions  

Is it wise to wear out the players the day before a home-and-home?

by Joran on Nov 9, 2011 12:12 PM EST up reply actions  

If it means not having to do this again, then yes, do it. I’d sacrifice a couple of points now to get the bigger point accross. If that’s possible.

Just trying to capture the spirit of the thing...

by dcsportsfan1 on Nov 9, 2011 12:14 PM EST up reply actions  

Stupid question: Why is it called a bag skate?

by Joran on Nov 9, 2011 11:57 AM EST up reply actions  

Because you leave the pucks in the bag.

Reporter: "What’s your Mom’s birthday?"
Tortorella: "I have no idea."

by Wheeler on Nov 9, 2011 11:59 AM EST up reply actions   2 recs

And here I thought it had something to do with barf bags.

by Murshawursha on Nov 9, 2011 12:59 PM EST up reply actions  

We had a 5 gallon bucket to throw up in. The bags tear when you nick them with a skate.

I am a hockey fan first, and a Caps fan second.

by iwearstripes on Nov 9, 2011 1:10 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

A little late to the party, but rec’ing the title of today’s Clips.

"My favorite fan base in D.C. Is United's. Period. The end." - Steinberg

"I worry that we're reaching that point where college-age kids don't know what goatse is anymore."

by Bald Pollack on Nov 9, 2011 11:54 AM EST reply actions  

I’m assuming JP was co-opting part Knuble’s AWESOME quotes in the Post about running around like a bunch of clowns last night- if you havent read CI’s post of Knuuubs’ comments, please do so.

by S h a g g y on Nov 9, 2011 12:14 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Saw the portion of lastnight’s game when Laughlin interviewed Bruce at the start of the first intermission. Bruce stating that they practiced earlier in the day how to play against the Ryder line that had just abused us for the first two goals. Multiple questions here: 1)when can we get a line put together like that? 2) were our players not paying attention in practice and while going over tape? 3) lets say they did pay attention, so if you know what you’re supposed to do but you do the opposite then what does that mean? 3a) does that mean some of our players are intellectual dullards? 4) does anyone think Bruce’s system is a “chase the puck system”, because it looks that way?

by Caps Homer on Nov 9, 2011 12:26 PM EST reply actions  

I don’t think they are dullards. I think some players believe that their talent can overcome system play and they can therefore freelance with no consequence. Problem is, when one guy isn’t playing that system it breaks down. The other teams are smart enough to react to breakdowns and take advantage of them.

Personally, I think Ovi is trying to play system hockey but it’s so different than what he has been used to. He had a ton of individual success in an uptempo counterattacking system and now he’s being asked to be more structured. I think he’s stuck between the two. My hope is that he finds a happy medium where he can stay within the structure and yet pick his spots to be what Ovi can be.

Just trying to capture the spirit of the thing...

by dcsportsfan1 on Nov 9, 2011 1:02 PM EST up reply actions  

He seemed to do fine in Hanlon’s trap system. But that was still the days of the “new” NHL.

You tried your best and failed miserably. The lesson is "Never Try."

by apk3000 on Nov 9, 2011 1:22 PM EST up reply actions  

I think you’re right, but the impression I’ve had of this team is that, offensively, Boudreau lets ‘em go, pretty much. We’ve seen it on the PP, but I think it happens at ES, too. When you have three forwards capable of point per game, it’s pretty easy to just let them play however they want since chances are they’ll score a lot anyway. Last thing you want to do is hinder them.

Red Line Station and @RedArmyLine, featuring coverage of the most frustrating team in the NHL
I believe in next year.

by red army line on Nov 9, 2011 1:31 PM EST up reply actions  

Spent some time at practice this morning, but arrived a little after they started and left before they were done. Bruce was definitely skating them hard. Beyond that, I’m not smart enough to tell anything else. I hate that the acoustics at the rink are terrible and you really can’t hear what he’s telling them, although I did catch one instance where he told them that if they couldn’t get some particular item right, they’re f’d. So I imagine he was dropping bombs all morning.

Don’t try to figure Sasha out. Just ride the wave.

by gfcaps fan on Nov 9, 2011 1:06 PM EST reply actions  

And in other news, Jaromir Jagr is on a seven-game points streak… #thereisnojustice

If you've read this far...seek help.

by ThePeerless on Nov 9, 2011 1:09 PM EST reply actions  

And Sid’s about to return.

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by J.P. on Nov 9, 2011 1:25 PM EST up reply actions  

(About which I actually am happy, I should note.)

Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world

by J.P. on Nov 9, 2011 1:25 PM EST up reply actions  

If you weren’t you wouldn’t really be much of a fan of hockey as a sport.

Aim for the head baby Jesus

by Doncosmic on Nov 9, 2011 5:16 PM EST up reply actions  

"Schultz-Hate"

I’m not going to pretend that I it doesn’t exist, but last night I was at the game, and I’m not sure if it was just the section I was in, but the Caps fans around me were on him harder than usual. I typically go to roughly 10-15 games a year, and split my time between the upper and lower level and you hear the constant grumblings at the game, at the bar before and after the games (mainly about how he needs to be traded, how he sucks, etc.), but never before have I heard him heckled as badly as last night. It was basically “Trade Schultz” chants and yelling “You Suck” at him when he has the puck behind the net. And there was even a small group of fans “whooping” him when he touched the puck.

By no means am I a Schultz-apologist, but I definitely thought it was ridiculous for home fans to heckle their own player. Sure, we all get on the guys who aren’t playing well, but in the end, I support the players who play for my favorite team because I’d much rather see them succeed than fail.

Like I said before, I know that there are people who realize what Schultz is, and like or tolerate him; and I realize there are a group of people who can’t stand him. I just figured the name on the front of the jersey always more important than the one on the back.

by JimCareyFanClub on Nov 9, 2011 1:33 PM EST reply actions  

Sometimes I think it would be kinder to Schultz to just trade him, so he doesn’t have to deal with all these ignorant haters. The guy has every right to hate it here because of those people, and I’d think no less of him if he asked for a trade either.

by Flash in the Pan on Nov 9, 2011 1:40 PM EST up reply actions  

Right, which is why I said “how appreciative folks are of subtle-but-effective hockey.”

I always think of him like an offensive lineman – if you hear his name, it’s probably because he did something wrong. Dude’s taken one minor penalty and is +4 this year (and has been a pretty effective PKer). What’s wrong with that?

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by J.P. on Nov 9, 2011 1:48 PM EST up reply actions  

this

"I wear tinted visor not to trick other players, but so hot girls in stands don't see me looking at them" - Alex Ovechkin

Follow!

by sami426 on Nov 9, 2011 1:50 PM EST up reply actions  

His PDO is 1027, he sucks. When it regresses you’ll all see it!

(Only 5 Caps are below 1000 PDO… Harmlik, AO, Backstrom, Knuble, Collins.)

Please, call me F&B.

by Rob Parker on Nov 9, 2011 1:55 PM EST up reply actions  

Related to the PK, he’s been on the ice for 1 PPGA in 21:33 of SHGTOI, best among team D so far*.

"My favorite fan base in D.C. Is United's. Period. The end." - Steinberg

"I worry that we're reaching that point where college-age kids don't know what goatse is anymore."

by Bald Pollack on Nov 9, 2011 1:58 PM EST up reply actions  

I also think its partly how the fanbase itself is “raised”. People who grow up watching teams with strong O-lines or above average defenses tend to appreciate them more than people who grow up watching teams that focus more on offense or who are 50/50. You talk with most Steelers fans about defense or a Nebraska fans about O-line play and most of them get it.

One of the pluses of growing up watching Rod Langway every night as opposed to say Paul Coffey is I appreciate watching defensive defensemen work.

The Artist Formerly Known as CP2Devil.
Associate Editor at Five For Howling.

by Carl Putnam on Nov 9, 2011 3:58 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Yeah, name the best ref in the league. Most casual fans can’t because the best ref is a guy who goes un-noticed. Same with Sarge.

I’ve watched Schultz pretty closely given all the talk of his summer conditioning etc. Opening night was pretty rough because it seemed like he was carrying the puck too much (not sure if that was Carolina’s plan or what). He can’t be successful doing that. His skating looks much better and it seems to me he’s being more physical.

The positive is that he seems like a pretty reserved guy who rolls with the punches and doesn’t get too up or down. I doubt any criticism outside the locker room is gonna affect him too much.

Just trying to capture the spirit of the thing...

by dcsportsfan1 on Nov 9, 2011 1:55 PM EST up reply actions  

name the best ref in the league

Don Van Massenhoven.

Winnipeg? Winnipeg??? Oy! (And now it's official...)

by MikeL-Pivonka on Nov 9, 2011 1:56 PM EST up reply actions  

According to a player poll from last season, there is no best ref in the league. Kelly Sutherland gathered the next most votes. Link

by Flash in the Pan on Nov 9, 2011 2:46 PM EST up reply actions  

Scultz had 53 hits in 72 games last year, and 66 in 73 last year. So far this year, he has 12 hits in 13 games, which translated to 67 hits in 73 games. Hits are hardly a cut-and-dry stat, and certainly not a wonderful indicator of physicality, but it seems like he’s at roughly the same level of physicality as he’s had in the past.

by Flash in the Pan on Nov 9, 2011 2:52 PM EST up reply actions  

Sometimes, folks analyze things a bit too much. Here is all I have to know about Schultz…no Caps defenseman having played in ten or more games has been on the ice for fewer goals against — nine (Green, Collins and Erskine have been on for fewer individually; nine in 13 combined man-games).

I don’t care if it was because Schultz was a Rod Langway with bigger ears or because of sunspots. But the last I looked, goals was the metric by which wins and losses were assigned. Every generation of fans needs its “Joe Reekie,” and Schultz is it for this generation of fans.

If you've read this far...seek help.

by ThePeerless on Nov 9, 2011 2:36 PM EST up reply actions   4 recs

I think stay-at-home defensemen only truly get their due in the playoffs, when they’re able to shutdown the opposing team’s best players. Schultz has never really elevated his game in the playoffs, and as such, never really got much recognition.

by RCheli on Nov 9, 2011 2:48 PM EST up reply actions  

I don’t think he’d get much dap even then. I think stay-at-home D’s only get recognized if they’re mean or dirty.

Insofar as I can tell, there are two ways D’s get pub – when they’re scoring or when they’re physical. It’s hard to find too many guys who don’t fit one or the other (or both) and have become household names (which is why Karl Alzner shall remain forever mercifully affordable).

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by J.P. on Nov 9, 2011 2:53 PM EST up reply actions  

Pretty much. No one would know who Suter is even with the family he is from if it weren’t for him being brought up on occasion during Weber highlights.

Comrades, leave me here a little, while as yet 't is early morn:
Leave me here, and when you want me, sound upon the bugle-horn

by sydtron on Nov 9, 2011 3:40 PM EST up reply actions  

Yet when contract time comes around, people will know.

See also Scuderi and Volchenkov.

by RCheli on Nov 9, 2011 3:42 PM EST up reply actions  

Who aren’t anywhere near the same caliber as Suter. Anyone that follows the game knows Suter is a stud. I firmly believe that.

Please, call me F&B.

by Rob Parker on Nov 9, 2011 3:42 PM EST up reply actions  

Exactly. Yet those two guys got paid.

by RCheli on Nov 9, 2011 3:43 PM EST up reply actions  

Which makes anything under 7-8 a year for Suter highway robbery. Hell, if Philly targeted him instead of Bryz they’d be a hell of a lot more scary.

Comrades, leave me here a little, while as yet 't is early morn:
Leave me here, and when you want me, sound upon the bugle-horn

by sydtron on Nov 9, 2011 3:44 PM EST up reply actions  

(he’s getting paid $3ish a year now through next season, for at least a top 5 d man in the league)

Comrades, leave me here a little, while as yet 't is early morn:
Leave me here, and when you want me, sound upon the bugle-horn

by sydtron on Nov 9, 2011 3:46 PM EST up reply actions  

I don’t think there’s a single person on the planet who thinks that Bryz deal was good. Or even sort-of good.

by RCheli on Nov 9, 2011 3:46 PM EST up reply actions  

I’m sure Bryz, his agent, and Paul Holmgren probably do. But can you push that number to 5? That’s tough.

Please, call me F&B.

by Rob Parker on Nov 9, 2011 3:48 PM EST up reply actions  

I can think of 14 Eastern Conference GMs who love it.

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by J.P. on Nov 9, 2011 3:49 PM EST up reply actions   3 recs

So the EC GMs are unanimous in their approval of the PHI K for Bryz!

Please, call me F&B.

by Rob Parker on Nov 9, 2011 3:50 PM EST up reply actions  

Exactly. Hell, most of the West loves it, too.

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by J.P. on Nov 9, 2011 3:51 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

I think there are likely some GMs with RFA or UFA-to-be goalies who probably aren’t loving it.

Unleash the Apathy.

by D'ohboy on Nov 9, 2011 4:07 PM EST up reply actions  

Fair point.

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by J.P. on Nov 9, 2011 8:20 PM EST up reply actions  

Defensive defensemen are the offensive lineman of hockey. You only really hear their names when they get beat and yet they’re incredibly valuable, and when free agency comes around they get paid.

by RCheli on Nov 9, 2011 3:43 PM EST up reply actions  

I think the Scuderi contract shocked everyone. And Volchenkov at least had his calling card – blocked shots. But neither is or was terribly well-known.

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by J.P. on Nov 9, 2011 3:44 PM EST up reply actions  

I’m just saying that if Schultz was coming into his FA year this season and, in the second round, allowed Crosby (or whomever) to only score, say, three points at even strength, he would get a monster deal, and people would know his name (at least for the summer).

by RCheli on Nov 9, 2011 3:46 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, it could happen. (And it’d be a nice problem to have.)

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by J.P. on Nov 9, 2011 3:47 PM EST up reply actions  

I forgot to mention that they get swept in the conference finals by Winnipeg.

by RCheli on Nov 9, 2011 3:49 PM EST up reply actions  

At this point, I’d take it.

And let me guess – Pavelec got hot and the Caps had no answer?

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by J.P. on Nov 9, 2011 3:50 PM EST up reply actions  

Ugh. And that flight delay that forced them to sit on their charter jet in those cushy leather seats for an extra 17 minutes on an off-day between games 2 and 3 was crippling.

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by J.P. on Nov 9, 2011 3:56 PM EST up reply actions  

At least Scuderi had the “I limited Ovechkin to 8-6-14 in 7 games” card (and a Cup).

Red Line Station and @RedArmyLine, featuring coverage of the most frustrating team in the NHL
I believe in next year.

by red army line on Nov 9, 2011 4:13 PM EST up reply actions  

AV hits pretty well too. He’s averaged over 2 a game for a while.

by Flash in the Pan on Nov 9, 2011 4:53 PM EST up reply actions  

Even Suter had more points last year than Schultz has since the start of 2009-10.

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by J.P. on Nov 9, 2011 3:42 PM EST up reply actions  

Last night my mother accompanied me to the game. She’s a Caps fan but not a very knowledgeable hockey fan, and when Schultz was announced in the starting lineup she asked me “is he new?” So I got to tell her this lesson (using almost the same words). And then there was a moment in the game where he used his long reach to beautifully poke-check the puck away from a Star, directly in front of our seats, and I was able to say “he doesn’t have to hit people as long as he continues to do things like that consistently.” Unfortunately it wasn’t his best game overall, but that was true for the whole team.

Campaign Promises fantasy team: Hamrlik To Fall

by CapitalCentre on Nov 9, 2011 2:37 PM EST up reply actions  

yet in here, it’s all Hamrlik-Hate. Weird.

by DonnieKnutts on Nov 9, 2011 3:31 PM EST up reply actions  

He’s hated here for what he does on the ice. Schultz is hated for what people think he should be doing on the ice. Makes sense to me.

by Flash in the Pan on Nov 9, 2011 4:58 PM EST up reply actions  

The main issue to me—since both Schultz and Hamrlik, like almost all players, are capable of boneheaded mistakes—is the incessant scapegoating. Here, we decry the scapegoating of Schultz, defending him by attacking the hockey knowledge of those who boo him. Meanwhile, seemingly every poster here relentlessly criticizes Hamrlik.

I’m not debating whether either player is above criticism, but the tendency to scapegoat certain players is not unique to those who haven’t been watching the game for decades.

by DonnieKnutts on Nov 9, 2011 5:04 PM EST up reply actions  

the tendency to scapegoat certain players is not unique to those who haven’t been watching the game for decades.

Agreed. The difference is that when this community does it, we bash the player for legitimate reasons, not just “he’s tall so he has to hit people.”

by Flash in the Pan on Nov 9, 2011 5:16 PM EST up reply actions  

The primary difference is that Schultz gets criticized for playing an awkward looking game, but he is still effective in keeping the puck out of the net. Hamrlik’s game has been both ugly and a liability. He’s been out there for a ton of goals against, and has been culpable in many of them. Hamrlik isn’t being bashed without some supporting facts that his play just is not cutting it so far. You can say he’s still adjusting to a new team, but the fact of the matter is that when he is out there the Caps are getting scored on more frequently. You can’t say the same thing about Schultz.

Release the Mackan!

by Killer_Carlson on Nov 9, 2011 5:20 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

We criticize Hamrlik for what he does (and fails to do) on the ice – we don’t scapegoat him. There’s a huge difference. Most of the Schultz hate is based off ignorance or misunderstanding – the criticism of Hamrlik (which is in now way limited to here) is based off facts.

My mind is all twisted like a peanut.

by timmyv38 on Nov 9, 2011 5:36 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

I think the hatred of Schultz was/is based on what people think he should be (to them) without either acknowledging his merits now or in the future. Compare that with Hamrlik (who started playing in the bigs before most of these guys’ voices broke) who has a defined set of expectations that haven’t been met yet, and I think there are some differences.

"My favorite fan base in D.C. Is United's. Period. The end." - Steinberg

"I worry that we're reaching that point where college-age kids don't know what goatse is anymore."

by Bald Pollack on Nov 9, 2011 5:58 PM EST up reply actions  

Kudos to Nystrom

Not only did he score a nice goal in the game, apparently it’s a reward for the good karma from this:

From Puck Daddy:

The 28-year-old winger felt so blessed that he decided to pay it forward while in Washington, D.C. Nystrom said he took leftovers from the Stars’ pregame meal to a local park, handing it over to two presumably homeless gentlemen. “Gave them the best meal they had in a long time,” he said.

Don’t like that he did that to the Caps, but giving the leftovers from the pregame meal to the homeless… yeah.

Winnipeg? Winnipeg??? Oy! (And now it's official...)

by MikeL-Pivonka on Nov 9, 2011 1:43 PM EST reply actions  

Mensch.

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by J.P. on Nov 9, 2011 1:44 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Indeed. Rosh Hashanah/Yom Kippur jokes come to mind, but I guess it’s a month too late/eleven months too soon.

Don’t try to figure Sasha out. Just ride the wave.

by gfcaps fan on Nov 9, 2011 1:47 PM EST up reply actions  

Interesting discussion today and I, too, was especially disappointed last night. Although addressed peripherally here, what bothered me most was that AS A TEAM, the CAPS were out-hustled, almost literally, on every shift for three periods. At no point, especially, in the 3rd did they ‘step it up’ to come together and begin hustling. More than anything, I find this the most disheartening. Yes, Ovi is under-performing; Yes, Semin is frustrating; Yes, Hamr is sucking….but that can’t explain the overall failure of a team to, well, hustle and care. Dallas, by contrast, was an absolute pleasure to watch. On almost every shift it seemed like every (a bit of an exaggeration, of course) Star was a step ahead of every Cap. I don’t have a word for it, but it certainly is disconcerting.

by Wilderthing on Nov 9, 2011 2:35 PM EST reply actions  

Dallas also appeared to be working as a 5 man unit and had a gameplan where every player knew where the other guys were supposed to be. To my eyes, the Caps didn’t.

by Gin and Tonic on Nov 9, 2011 3:17 PM EST up reply actions  

"Well, you address it by taking ice time away," Boudreau said. "Alex Semin got two shifts after the second penalty, both on power plays. As hard as he worked in the first period, too, and scored a goal and everything else. But he can’t be leading our team in penalties with nine minors in 13 games.

"It can’t be done," Boudreau said. "So he’s got to move his legs to not take those penalties."

Why did he get the PP shifts? That’s the time that scorers most want to be on the ice. Seems like that’s the time that should be pulled first.

Please, call me F&B.

by Rob Parker on Nov 9, 2011 2:54 PM EST reply actions  

Because Bruce would rather win than send a message?

I do think that taking a guy’s regular shift away sends a message, but perhaps giving him that PP TOI mixes the message some.

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by J.P. on Nov 9, 2011 2:56 PM EST up reply actions  

Agreed. Taking away the regular shift definitely is some sort of message, I didn’t mean to imply that it didn’t. I just think the PPTOI is a stronger message. “I’m mad at you but at the end of the day you’re really good so I’m still going to give you the PPTOI because I don’t want to lose.”

Please, call me F&B.

by Rob Parker on Nov 9, 2011 2:59 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, that’s pretty much it.

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by J.P. on Nov 9, 2011 3:00 PM EST up reply actions  

Trying to win is so bourgeois. Artists cannot be constrained by such petty considerations.

Patron saint of quality footwear.

by fat_daddyo on Nov 9, 2011 3:04 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

What if it’s different? Boudreau takes him out of his regular shifts to show Semin that his play isn’t strong enough. Then, BB puts him out on the Power Play to give him a chance to gut it out and put a little concentrated effort in.

Maybe BB doesn’t approach every player the same way. He sees Semin working hard; but, he’s unhappy with his focus and subsequent penalties. I feel like it’s pretty tough to really know whats going on. . .lotsa different ways to look at it.

Soon the Championship with be ours, all ours!

by kingzman264 on Nov 9, 2011 8:44 PM EST up reply actions  

___

Somewhat related:

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by J.P. on Nov 9, 2011 3:05 PM EST up reply actions   3 recs

Except it’s not true. Semin took his second penalty at 6:02 of the third; Dallas scored at 7:33. Semin skated three shifts after that, starting at 9:02, 14:18, and 16:35. And for a combined 4:17 in ice time.

If you've read this far...seek help.

by ThePeerless on Nov 9, 2011 3:09 PM EST up reply actions   3 recs

Boom. Roasted.

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by J.P. on Nov 9, 2011 3:22 PM EST up reply actions  

And only that last one would have been a PP shift.

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by J.P. on Nov 9, 2011 3:25 PM EST up reply actions  

At least the shift length was under control.

Please, call me F&B.

by Rob Parker on Nov 9, 2011 3:27 PM EST up reply actions   2 recs

Whyno was actually on that – http://www.washingtontimes.com/blog/capitals-watch/2011/nov/9/alex-semin-gets-ice-time-taken-away-penalties/

Good on him.

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by J.P. on Nov 9, 2011 3:31 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

So he played 4:17 out of the last 12:27 of the game. That’s on pace for ~20 minutes over a full game…

Accountability!

Release the Mackan!

by Killer_Carlson on Nov 9, 2011 3:47 PM EST up reply actions  

Glancing at MoJo’s and Red’s shifts, it seems Semin got skipped once.

¡Viva accountabilité!

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by J.P. on Nov 9, 2011 3:55 PM EST up reply actions  

________

All players are held accountable for their actions!

J.P.: You might be the king of all geeks here…

by Alz Well That Ends Well on Nov 9, 2011 3:57 PM EST up reply actions   4 recs

“There were no shifts in 3rd period. NO SHIFTS!!!!”

Unleash the Apathy.

by D'ohboy on Nov 9, 2011 4:08 PM EST up reply actions  

This is so full of win.

Baghdad Bob and Bruce Boudreau, a couple of BBs with a story to peddle.

Patron saint of quality footwear.

by fat_daddyo on Nov 9, 2011 4:13 PM EST up reply actions  

__

I can’t find the post that it’s from, but we had done up this pic back in the pre-SBN days, I think:

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by J.P. on Nov 9, 2011 8:31 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Could be bizarro accountability like when Keenan had Kovalev skate for 7 or 8 minutes.

Comrades, leave me here a little, while as yet 't is early morn:
Leave me here, and when you want me, sound upon the bugle-horn

by sydtron on Nov 9, 2011 4:22 PM EST up reply actions  

Would AS28 rather be on the bench or standing in front of the net on the PP?

Red Line Station and @RedArmyLine, featuring coverage of the most frustrating team in the NHL
I believe in next year.

by red army line on Nov 9, 2011 4:14 PM EST up reply actions  

In all this talk of accountability, I am surprised there aren’t more references to Knuble’s calling out the team today. Frankly, he was one of the very few, if not only, player who seemed to me to be hustling and trying to pick it up….yet, his plus/minus is pretty dismal. Odd, those who should be picking it up and who can produce aren’t (Ovi…cough, Semin…cough) and those that can’t produce a lot (Knuble, Hendricks perhaps) are picking it up.

by Wilderthing on Nov 9, 2011 4:04 PM EST reply actions  

That’s because they’re fourth liners and nobody should listen to them. #kidding

"My favorite fan base in D.C. Is United's. Period. The end." - Steinberg

"I worry that we're reaching that point where college-age kids don't know what goatse is anymore."

by Bald Pollack on Nov 9, 2011 4:13 PM EST up reply actions  

I really wish Knuble had the “C.”

by DonnieKnutts on Nov 9, 2011 4:35 PM EST up reply actions  

Nice idea. Count me on that as well. Time for Ovi to concentrate on his personal productivity.

by Wilderthing on Nov 9, 2011 4:38 PM EST up reply actions  

removing Ovi’s captaincy would be a PR nightmare for the team, but it would be great if Ovie gave it up on his own for that very reason—to concentrate on his personal productivity. One can dream.

by DonnieKnutts on Nov 9, 2011 4:50 PM EST up reply actions  

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