Recap: Predators 3, Capitals 1
by Rob Parker on Nov 15, 2011 10:46 PM EST
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Tonight the Washington Capitals took their show on the road to face the Nashville Predators. On paper, the Predators have less skill than the Capitals, but they play a disciplined and hard-working game, exactly the kind of team that has given the Caps fits during Bruce Boudreau's tenure. The Caps came out, fought hard, and did the little things. They spent the first 55 minutes grinding out a textbook road game, not getting frustrated that they were unable to unleash their high-flying offensive players. Finally the Caps' patience paid off as Troy Brouwer sniped a go-ahead goal with less than five minutes remaining. And then everything unraveled as the Caps seemed to lose their defensive focus, and went home with a 3-1 defeat.
Ten more notes on the game:
- Homecomings are always a nice storyline in the NHL, and while neither Joel Ward nor Tomas Vokoun are technically from Nashville, they've combined for 642 games wearing the Predators jersey. Suffice it to say, neither player left this game happy.
- Over the last several months, the Capitals' coaching staff has been trying to work with Alex Ovechkin to change up his attack. Tonight Boudreau moved Ovechkin to the right side, maybe in an attempt to force Ovechkin to move away from his off-wing-cut-to-the-middle-and-shoot move.
- Thanks to Mike Green's second injury on the season, the Predators boasted the two best defensemen on the ice tonight in Shea Weber and Ryan Suter. And late in the first the Caps had an opportunity to do some damage while both of the Predators big guns on D were in the box. Unfortunately the Caps only mustered one great chance, and Pekka Rinne was there to make the save on Brooks Laich.
- The Caps may not have had the big name D tonight, but they have the deeper D corps. The lack of defensive depth seemed to show when the Caps took a late lead on Brouwer's beautiful goal. The Predators were caught with their third pair on the ice and they were no match for Marcus Johansson's speed up the ice, resulting in the first goal of the game.
- Of course, the Caps defensive depth seemed to disappear after they took the lead, as four different defenders were individually embarrassed. Jeff Schultz got walked and John Carlson lost his man and failed to cut off the centering pass. Tie game. Then, in the final minute, both Dennis Wideman and John Erskine lost their defensive positioning and allowed free Predators all around Vokoun's net, with Colin Wilson banging home the game winner.
- There are two kinds of men in this world: Those with loaded guns, and those that dig. Brooks Laich had the loaded gun all night, as he was firing away from all angles, ending up with 7 shots on net, and several more blocked or wide. Unfortunately, there was no Tuco to Laich's Blondie, and Laich's line was unable to unearth any treasure.
- Recently a lot has been made of Semin's penchant for penalties, and Boudreau's response. Tonight Semin extended his penalty-streak to 5 games, and 9 of the last 11. Say what you will about the soft calls, and many of the calls were soft, including tonight's, but that's simply unacceptable from one of the team's most important players. It's hard not to notice that at least 3 of Semin's 4 total shots came before he was whistled for the penalty.
- One could question why Boudreau would send out the top line with less than five minutes left in the game, immediately following Brouwer's go-ahead goal. At some points in a game, that move would make sense, but in a tight checking road game, we'd like to see Boudreau respond with Laich's line, keep the momentum, and thwart any quick answer from the Predators. Of course, Boudreau assuredly didn't expect such a weak effort from his top unit on what would end up their last shift of the night. Until the empty net shift. Of course.
- The Caps struggled on the PK early in the season, but have now killed 22 of the last 23 opposition power plays. While it's an unsustainable pace, it's surely more representative than the rough start to the season, and hopefully a sign that the new pieces are finally feeling comfortable and integrated into the Caps' systems.
- Zero goals through 55 minutes, 4 goals in the final five minutes. Probably not the way most people saw the game unfolding, but such is life. You'd like to see the Caps crack down and strangle the life out of the last 4+ minutes of the game after taking the lead, but instead they seemed to lose all the defensive focus and discipline that had gotten them the 1-0 lead. Tie game, and overtime once again seemed inevitable. And then one more defensive breakdown and an empty net goal happened.
And so a game that promised to leave Caps fans with at least something positive after 55 minutes ends up leaving Caps fans wondering how it could all go so wrong, so fast. Fans were teased with disciplined play, tight defensive coverage, and reliable goaltending. And then when they tasted the slightest bit of success they reverted to their old ways, and left us all wondering what just happened, and where the killer instinct was (two straight losses in which the Caps had a lead, 3 of the last 4 losses overall). A chance for two points is missed, and the Caps move on to their next game in Winnipeg.
Game highlights:
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Sigh.
"A picture is worth a thousand words. For moving pictures we manage to shorten it to one or two."
I’m trained. First think I look for is the acrostic. My guess is that you had this one planned for any Caps’ loss?
Nice guys finish first, but sometimes the season is awfully long.
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or first thing
Nice guys finish first, but sometimes the season is awfully long.
Follow me on Twitter.
No, this was going to be the one for tonight regardless. The loss just makes it more… fitting, I guess.
Please, call me F&B.
But really it should have been “Now Sam Crow.” That’s more representative of how I feel.
Please, call me F&B.
by Rob Parker on Nov 15, 2011 10:51 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Kinda annoying having an 8pm game on a Tuesday!
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"Common sense is not so common."
_______
"Fais gros comme moi!" - Alex Ovechkin
by Gould Old Days on Nov 15, 2011 11:10 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
It’s too bad, because I felt like the Caps carried the play. Every mistake they made seemed to bite them in the ass and RInne was unreal.
Of course, tonight does nothing to silence the critics of Semin/Ovechkin.
Agree. The result is a drag.
Those breakdowns were horrible, but I liked the 55 minutes they played before that.
Shit happens.
Patron saint of quality footwear.
What a drag it it — losing in the last 5 minutes.
Rocking the Red for teams on the banks of the Potomac and at the Gateway Arch and Singing the Blues about Hockey.
I actually thought after it was tied 1-1 that it would surely go to OT. Nope. #mentalmidgets
It isn’t even anger-inducing. It does not seem to be worth that kind of emotional investment. It might not even be disappointing any more. It is expected.
-Peerless 5.6.2011
I did, too. In fact, for most of the game, I was actually hoping it would go to OT so we’d be guaranteed a point. (Guess that’s the mark of a fan of a loser — to hope for a Bettman point.)
Rocking the Red for teams on the banks of the Potomac and at the Gateway Arch and Singing the Blues about Hockey.
Most mistakes they make seem to bite them in the ass on most nights!
On an earlier thread, someone said that Vokoun was better than Rinne. Are they eating their words or what? Still, will Rinne sustain his great performance consistently over the next several years? And his salary still seems out of whack since it seems like the order of the “best” goalies seems to constantly change.
Rocking the Red for teams on the banks of the Potomac and at the Gateway Arch and Singing the Blues about Hockey.
One could question why Boudreau would send out the top line with less than five minutes left in the game, immediately following Brouwer’s go-ahead goal. At some points in a game, that move would make sense, but in a tight checking road game, we’d like to see Boudreau respond with Laich’s line, keep the momentum, and thwart any quick answer from the Predators
There is no bigger indictment of this team than that correct observation. Do you think Pit has reservations about putting Crosby on the ice after they score?
Jesus H, here we go again. What has really changed with this team? Other than Semin managing to take more penalties.
It isn’t even anger-inducing. It does not seem to be worth that kind of emotional investment. It might not even be disappointing any more. It is expected.
-Peerless 5.6.2011
Yeah, it’s pretty telling that Ovechkin’s line now has to be considered more of a defensive liability than one that can be counted on to possess the puck.
They have to learn to back check and 19 should have stayed with his man, but I still don’t think you put them out there at that point in that game.
Nice guys finish first, but sometimes the season is awfully long.
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They have to learn to back check and 19
You would think they’d have learned by now, no? If anything were to carry over from last season’s defensive mentality it would be the little details and responsibilities like back checking.
Hi. My name is Christoph J. I'm a Caps fan.
by Christoph J on Nov 15, 2011 11:28 PM EST up reply actions
Also, how long do they need to learn? It’s such a simple fundamental.
Hi. My name is Christoph J. I'm a Caps fan.
by Christoph J on Nov 15, 2011 11:29 PM EST up reply actions
In this case, the major fail among the forwards was on 19.
Everything ends badly...otherwise it wouldn't end.
by Davethecapsfan on Nov 15, 2011 10:57 PM EST up reply actions
I agree with Rob’s point. I don’t think that’s the line you put out there in a tight game. You want the third or fourth line out there. I don’t think it’s an indictment of the team. I think this was a poor coaching decision.
Nice guys finish first, but sometimes the season is awfully long.
Follow me on Twitter.
Agreed. The 3rd and 4th lines generate the kind of chaos you need along the boards and in front of the net when the game gets aggressive like that. It was boiling over so you want guys who whose instinct is to get as close to the net as possible, not move out for room to look for precision.
by jopierce on Nov 15, 2011 10:58 PM EST via iPhone app up reply actions
It’s not to let BB off the hook, he needs to go as well. Meanwhile, the Ovechkin contract looks worse as every game goes by.
It isn’t even anger-inducing. It does not seem to be worth that kind of emotional investment. It might not even be disappointing any more. It is expected.
-Peerless 5.6.2011
When Ovi’s contract expires, I can see him signing a deal for a low salary for a chance at the Cup. (I’m not saying it due to the Vokoun deal. I was saying it last year, as well)
Rocking the Red for teams on the banks of the Potomac and at the Gateway Arch and Singing the Blues about Hockey.
Are you seriously talking about that right now?
I'm on the twitters! Currently Watching: Catching up on Walking Dead
"Common sense is not so common."
Only if the Caps fail to have success during Ovi’s tenure here.
(Admit I’m feeling pessimistic since I’m pissed. But there still is a glimmer of optimism and hope that we’ll hoist.)
Rocking the Red for teams on the banks of the Potomac and at the Gateway Arch and Singing the Blues about Hockey.
But you’re talking about something, like, 9 years away. That’s ludicrous to try and predict. Who knows if anyone even wants to sign him at this rate :(
I'm on the twitters! Currently Watching: Catching up on Walking Dead
"Common sense is not so common."
Any player can sign a contract, provided they set their salary standards low enough.
Rocking the Red for teams on the banks of the Potomac and at the Gateway Arch and Singing the Blues about Hockey.
Eh, I wouldn’t say that.
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"Common sense is not so common."
Would that be in the year 2021? I’m not looking ahead that far. I’m more concerned with where this team will be next April 21, or May 21, or June 21.
There's no bigger burden than a great potential - Linus Van Pelt
LOVE the acrostic
"That's hockey. You never know what's going to happen. It's a tough sport. No tooth, a broken nose, but I'm looking good [laughs]." - #8
Whyno:
#Caps thought tying goal play might’ve been offside. Players stopped skating. Boudreau: “That’s why you have to play to the whistle.”
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"Common sense is not so common."
ugh! Shitbums!
I'm on the twitters! Currently Watching: Catching up on Walking Dead
"Common sense is not so common."
Something similar happened last season or the season before, I think. Players stopped skating because they thought the puck was dead but there hadn’t been a whistle and the opposing team just kept going.
by jopierce on Nov 15, 2011 11:01 PM EST via iPhone app up reply actions
SO frustrating to hear. BB needs to crack skulls.
I'm on the twitters! Currently Watching: Catching up on Walking Dead
"Common sense is not so common."
Take away ice time. Skate Ovi shitty minutes. I dunno. Be a bit more of a hard ass or something.
I'm on the twitters! Currently Watching: Catching up on Walking Dead
"Common sense is not so common."
He’s too afraid of losing, even in the regular season, to limit the ice of the goal scorers. That’s why the accountability ends with PP time, and the empty net shift. Except for that one time.
Please, call me F&B.
Ugh, I hate that I’m coming around to a new coach. I love Bruce, but what else can he do?
I'm on the twitters! Currently Watching: Catching up on Walking Dead
"Common sense is not so common."
I’m hoping the team will be so embarrassed that they get this out of system. During the regular season, I’m looking for evidence that they’re establishing the habits that will serve them well in the playoffs. This sort of thing is Exhibit A in the list of habits they need to establish.
There's no bigger burden than a great potential - Linus Van Pelt
Losing 3 straight games to 8 seeded Montreal after going up 3 games to 1 in the first round of the playoffs wasn’t enough? How about getting swept by Tampa Bay last year in the second round? I’ve come to the conclusion that there is no amount of embarrassment that will change the habits of some players on this squad.
I think Ovie was plenty embarrassed…trouble is it seemed to make him worse, not better.
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I believe in next year.
by red army line on Nov 16, 2011 1:15 PM EST up reply actions
The net was off on the other end of the ice but then ANA went all the way down the ice and scored on the Caps.
Please, call me F&B.
by Rob Parker on Nov 15, 2011 11:03 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Assuming that’s not snark, that’s the second time that’s happened to them in the last yearI think.
"My favorite fan base in D.C. Is United's. Period. The end." - Steinberg
Keep United in DC. A Fair Deal at RFK, and a Pathway to a Stadium for a team loyal to the city.
by Bald Pollack on Nov 15, 2011 11:07 PM EST up reply actions
happened in that 7-6 game
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you’d think they’d have this “play to the whistle” thing figured out by now. it’s only pounded into their heads from they day they start hockey.
Pledge Drive 2011-2012: CARSON KOLZIG FOUNDATION! Season Pledge total--$403.25!
In Soviet Russia whistle till you play!
This is an amazing problem for professional players to have, just like their continued penchant for Too Many Men penalties
Bruce Boudreau when asked about Brooks Laich's return to the lineup, he said: "He just adds another dimension to our team. If it was puzzle, he just fits that thing. He completes us."
Brooks Laich completing everything from teams to tires and everything in between.
Dimagus, do you think you could put together a gif that’d show if it really was offsides? I’d feel less awful about this if there was actually a blown call by the linesmen. (Actually, that’d probably make me feel worse, but oh well.
by Flash in the Pan on Nov 15, 2011 11:20 PM EST up reply actions
Infuriating. I scored a goal once as a kid after I blatantly tripped a dude who was about to have a breakaway. He had a good pass spring him, I tripped him accidentally at the red line, but it was obvious, and then I took the puck, everyone thought it was over, I took the puck, looked at the ref, looked down at the guy I tripped, looked at the ref again, and just fired it at the net.
"Don't mind WM...he's an all-around jerk."
by Whiter Mage on Nov 15, 2011 11:29 PM EST up reply actions
I thought it was offside, too, but that’s no excuse for professional athletes to stop playing.
by Aliceanna on Nov 15, 2011 11:43 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
That’ll be fun!
I'm on the twitters! Currently Watching: Catching up on Walking Dead
"Common sense is not so common."
This recap deserves a fistful of recs (and few recs more)
"Fais gros comme moi!" - Alex Ovechkin
by Gould Old Days on Nov 15, 2011 11:01 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
Spidey, check your e-mail
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tough, tough loss. I thought from about the midway point of the game, the Caps totally dominated play. I thought all four lines played pretty well. A couple more notes:
- Rinne is worth the money. Not only does he make the saves, but he makes them look so effortless. Nobody wants to play the Preds in the playoffs
- MoJo had a really strong game. There was that play at the start of the second where he went almost end-to-end, skating by basically the entire Nashville team en route to the net, where he almost flipped it over Rinne. He was skating really well all night.
- Tonight is a night where the Hamrlik haters can take a breather. He played a strong defensive game and had quite a few shots on net, by my count.
- I know there were only 24 or so ticks left, but pulling the goalie for a center-ice faceoff is not a smart move. Yeah, your chances of equalizing are slim with that amount of time left, but they went from slim to zilch in a second.
I don’t think any goalie is with 7 mill for 7 years.
What D doesn’t look good with Alzner watching his back?
Please, call me F&B.
I agree on that one. Rinne is a great goalie, that is true. But is his save percentage and goals against percentage that far above the pack. I would have to answer No on that one.
If his Goals against % over a large sample of games were 1.25 and his save percentage about .960, then I’d say so. (Maybe I didn’t come up with good sample numbers but was trying to come up with percentages FAR above the pack for goaltenders that’s believable for someone to do.
Rocking the Red for teams on the banks of the Potomac and at the Gateway Arch and Singing the Blues about Hockey.
for this team, this coach, and this system, I think he’s well worth the money.
by DonnieKnutts on Nov 15, 2011 11:15 PM EST up reply actions
Justify it. Why is Rinne worth that much more than a goalie you can pick up in FA for a lot less? Why lock into a guy for 7 years at a premium price tag?
Did that system prevent a lot of Caps shots tonight? Did they get chances to shoot at the corners from good areas? Even if he’s performing at that level now, he’s not going to keep it up.
Driving Play pointed out today that there’s a list of goalies who have a career sv% of .923 or higher:
That’s the list. Hasek is the best ever at .922. Is Rinne going to play at an elite level like that for the seven years of his contract? I’d bet against it, hard.
"Essentially, all models are wrong, but some are useful" George E.P. Box
by Knee high to a duck on Nov 15, 2011 11:19 PM EST up reply actions
My simple justification would be that, in my opinion, Rinne is one of the top 3 at his position and is worth being paid market value
by DonnieKnutts on Nov 15, 2011 11:22 PM EST up reply actions
You sure he’s one of the top-3? Even if he was, are you sure that’s worth $7mm? Seriously, what’s the justification for that value in particular?
"Essentially, all models are wrong, but some are useful" George E.P. Box
by Knee high to a duck on Nov 15, 2011 11:24 PM EST up reply actions
Right. The elite goalies are still better than the pack, but the pack has closed the gap a ton. The question is value over what’s available every summer in UFA, and there’s no way Rinne is that much better than the average NHL UFA goalie.
"Essentially, all models are wrong, but some are useful" George E.P. Box
by Knee high to a duck on Nov 15, 2011 11:27 PM EST up reply actions
I’d argue that he is that much better. And his value to the team is more than it might be for another team.
by DonnieKnutts on Nov 15, 2011 11:39 PM EST up reply actions
Why?
"Essentially, all models are wrong, but some are useful" George E.P. Box
by Knee high to a duck on Nov 15, 2011 11:39 PM EST up reply actions
Why…not? “There’s no way Rinne is that much better than the average NHL UFA goalie.” I disagree.
by DonnieKnutts on Nov 16, 2011 12:06 AM EST up reply actions
Let’s get real generous and say that Rinne can put up Hasek’s career average over the next 7 years – .922. That’s the best ever.
The NHL average save percentage last year was .916. That’s a difference of .006. Let’s say that Rinne is a horse, and plays in 65 games a year. The average team gives up ~30 shots a game, in round numbers. .006*65*30=11.6. 11.6 goals a year is worth slightly more than two wins if you count 5.5 goals as one win, as regression analysis shows. The average price for a win in the UFA market is under 3mm, so a goalie that can match Dominik Hasek for 7 years is worth ~6mm if we’re being generous.
Pekka Rinne is no Dominik Hasek. There are going to be years where he beats that contract, but there are going to be years where he’s not even close. Over the life of the deal, I think NSH is paying significantly more than he’s worth, especially given that they have an internal salary cap.
Your turn; why is Rinne worth more than 6mm a year, even if we assume he can put up Hasek’s numbers?
"Essentially, all models are wrong, but some are useful" George E.P. Box
by Knee high to a duck on Nov 16, 2011 12:26 AM EST up reply actions 3 recs
You’re right for the past 7 years. I’m not convinced you’re right for the next 7.
Fleischmann and Bryzgalov are just the start of the crazy, if I’m right about the effects of the TV contract and of teams getting settled ownership situations (whether in their current cities or elsewhere). I don’t think it’s long before Rinne’s contract is like Brooks Laich’s — high, but pretty much what that kind of player is worth and is getting paid.
"Fais gros comme moi!" - Alex Ovechkin
by Gould Old Days on Nov 16, 2011 12:29 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Of course, it’s also possible the owners manage to lower the salary cap in the next CBA, and that contract becomes a total albatross. But I think your scenario is more likely.
by Flash in the Pan on Nov 16, 2011 12:32 AM EST up reply actions
In that case the players would probably need to accept a rollback (as they did after the last lockout, I believe).
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by red army line on Nov 16, 2011 12:51 AM EST up reply actions
With the most generous possible assumptions about his talent level and playing time, I still come up with him falling well short of that kind of production. Even if the cap and contracts do go up, I just don’t see him being worth that much more than the NHL average goalie.
Counter-claim to growth: the contagion in the European debt markets spreads and causes another financial crisis. The cap could very well shrink.
"Essentially, all models are wrong, but some are useful" George E.P. Box
by Knee high to a duck on Nov 16, 2011 12:33 AM EST up reply actions
Willing to bet that this is much more likely than there being stable ownership in the NHL anytime soon.
Even if there’s no contagion (ha!) would also be interesting to see what happens if and when a lot of Euro teams run into greater financial trouble than they’re in now. I have an (admittedly-suspect) model in my head where some guys who’d be borderline NHLers in North America stay in Europe to be the big fish in the smaller pond. If the only hockey league in the world that pays is here, what does that do to salaries?
On goalie high salary and performance. And while it’s small sample. Only 2 years ago, Ryan Miller won the Vezina trophy and started in the Olympics. This year, he’s sitting at 29th in Goals against percentage with 2.86. (Average is about 2.45 this year). Average save % is about .915. Miller is sitting at in 24th place, with about .909.)
While Timmy Thomas, last year’s Vezina, is doing well this year,his contract (after winning the Vezina three years ago) was considered an albatross.
Rocking the Red for teams on the banks of the Potomac and at the Gateway Arch and Singing the Blues about Hockey.
by CapsFan75 on Nov 16, 2011 6:50 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
If anything, the signing will help them sign both. It won’t leave a lot for anything else, but that’s still a hard out.
by DonnieKnutts on Nov 15, 2011 11:21 PM EST up reply actions
That’s speculation. They’ve never been a capped team, they have their own internal budget. 7×7 is going to eat a ton of that. My money is on Weber leaving.
Please, call me F&B.
That they aren’t a capped team is not speculation. That they’ve been trying to sign Weber to a long term deal and failed is not speculation. That you don’t commit dollars to secondary assets when you still have a chance to commit them to primary assets is not speculation.
Please, call me F&B.
by Rob Parker on Nov 15, 2011 11:26 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Gentleman’s bet, then. I bet that both Weber and Suter re-up
by DonnieKnutts on Nov 15, 2011 11:37 PM EST up reply actions
I’d also say that Rinne is a primary asset
by DonnieKnutts on Nov 15, 2011 11:38 PM EST up reply actions
Given that Nashville has a guy that looks near-starter in Lindback and plenty of goalie prospects, and that you can draft a goalie late and have him be NHL-ready in as soon as 5 years, maybe less…I’d say goalies aren’t primary assets anymore. Even the best ones (unless you’re a team like Florida…Nashville is competitive in the tough West, they’re a pretty good team even without an elite netminder, which Rinne may not even be given his very short track record).
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by red army line on Nov 16, 2011 12:53 AM EST up reply actions
I’ve heard from multiple sources recently (one being Puck Daddy and another being McKenzie) that Poile’s been given the money to sign both to “Fair Market Deals.” Grain of salt, because what the Preds view as fair market isn’t necessarily what anyone else does, but I wouldn’t be surprised to see both re-sign.
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by Whiter Mage on Nov 15, 2011 11:39 PM EST up reply actions
I would not be surprised to see them resign either. Think about it. Overall, the good teams are near the cap and don’t really have room to give any “outsiders” a really fat deal. Vancouver and Pittsburgh don’t have room for another big contract. Detroit has about 3 Million now and would have about $6 million more if Lidstrom retires.
By my analysis, the only 2 good teams, good meaning ,aking the playoffs with plenty to spare, that have room to go out and sign a big expensive free agent for megabucks (as in 7 Million plus) would be Nashville and Phoenix)
Rocking the Red for teams on the banks of the Potomac and at the Gateway Arch and Singing the Blues about Hockey.
If NSH has pre-existing contracts and an internal salary-cap (both have been true since NSH has entered the league and I’m not aware of significant new revenue for the Preds), then this makes having the space to re-sign Weber or Suter less likely.
"Essentially, all models are wrong, but some are useful" George E.P. Box
by Knee high to a duck on Nov 15, 2011 11:23 PM EST up reply actions
Wait, you have bullet points, so what does RMTI mean? I’m confused.
But seriously, no goalie is worth 7×7. That’s too much, for too long. Also, with 24 seconds I don’t think there’s a problem pulling your goalie. You just have to hope you win the draw. If you lose the draw and they get a shot, but the time the goalie blocks it and sends the puck back the other way you are practically all out of time. Just gotta roll the dice and hope for the best.
Proud member of the Popsicle Division of the Cupcake Conference.
You ain't Knutts Donnie!
My namesake stole one from your boys on Tuesday, and I saw a lot of love for his holiness, but many of you (not all) made the point that he’s not worth $7M per year. I wanted to reply yesterday, but ya know….the 24h troll rule and all.
I just want to say that Pekka is easily worth $7M a year. In addition to being runner up in the Vezina (in a year where the winner’s numbers were death-defying, and Pekka would have won it with ease if not for TT), he was also 4th in Hart Trophy voting. He has followed up last season with an impressive start to this season. He will not let up….ever!
So, if you watched the game against your Caps, Pekka single handedly stole that game. You saw it, I saw it, everyone saw it. So since you have the likes of Ovechkin, Backstrom, Semin and Green, you probably figure that Rinne just stood on his head and you were snake bit and shoulda won that game, right?
Wrong!
Pekka does that $hit every single night. We give up tons of shots every game. Dudes walk in on Rinne every game. Dudes screen him. Dudes find themselves wide open across ice for a one-timer. Dudes are all alone all the time in front of the net. Dudes get 5 on 3 power plays and can’t score. I see this stuff on a gamely basis. At least 9 out of 10 games is like this.
So some of you guys were posting stats suggesting that he can’t keep it up. I disagree. Really, he does what he did to y’all every single night against every single team. Some suggested that the difference in Pekka’s SV% and an average one would be made up for by adding a scoring forward. I suggest to the good people of DC that if you put an ordinary goalie in net for the Preds, with the number of shots we give up, their GAA would be 3.00 and their SV% would be 0.890. How do I know this? Cause I watch every game and I just do. How many did he steal against your mighty Caps on Tuesday? At least one? Perhaps two? WELL, PEKKA DOES THAT $HIT EVERY SINGLE NIGHT!!!
Not trying to provoke anything. I"m just tellin’ ya. Without Pekka, the Preds are the Columbus Blue Jackets. Perhaps even worse.
Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is where the Stanley Cup can be found.
by Pekka for Predator Pontiff on Nov 17, 2011 12:23 PM EST up reply actions
Slava Malamud with a bunch of depressing tweets. Here’s one of them.
Can you think of another mega star who got figured out 6 yrs into his career, steadily declined since? Not due to injuries or lack of trying
Ugh. I need to unfollow if he is keeping that up. It’s so depressing.
I'm on the twitters! Currently Watching: Catching up on Walking Dead
"Common sense is not so common."
That is depressing. (Those are the type of tweets that make me think that we should get in our hot tub time machine, go back to summer of 2009, and trade some people while they’re at the top of our value.)
Except, I never would have thought that a bunch of guys age 25-26 had reached their athletic peak.
Rocking the Red for teams on the banks of the Potomac and at the Gateway Arch and Singing the Blues about Hockey.
Well, Nick isn’t 24 yet and he’s been stellar. Ovi’s key is finding new and more imaginative ways to score goals and working to be as good at those methods as he was with the old ‘cut to the right and shoot.’
by jopierce on Nov 15, 2011 11:13 PM EST via iPhone app up reply actions
Nick, not so much. But some of our other people
Rocking the Red for teams on the banks of the Potomac and at the Gateway Arch and Singing the Blues about Hockey.
Russians with names that start with A?
The rest of the team is firing, but they’re gonna find it pretty damn hard to win games when former 50/40 goal scorers are putting up half that. Ovi should be looking at Jojo and Chimera right now, cause they have no where near the skill he does and yet are right next to him in goals scored. I wonder, I wonder, oh why oh why.
Bruce Boudreau when asked about Brooks Laich's return to the lineup, he said: "He just adds another dimension to our team. If it was puzzle, he just fits that thing. He completes us."
Brooks Laich completing everything from teams to tires and everything in between.
And a defensemen with a name that starts with J.
Rocking the Red for teams on the banks of the Potomac and at the Gateway Arch and Singing the Blues about Hockey.
RomHam doesn’t have a J in his name though.
Bruce Boudreau when asked about Brooks Laich's return to the lineup, he said: "He just adds another dimension to our team. If it was puzzle, he just fits that thing. He completes us."
Brooks Laich completing everything from teams to tires and everything in between.
Not due to injuries or lack of trying
True, as long as you count trying the same thing over and over again as trying.
We can always hold out hope that Toronto or NYR will take him.
It isn’t even anger-inducing. It does not seem to be worth that kind of emotional investment. It might not even be disappointing any more. It is expected.
-Peerless 5.6.2011
Except Toronto and the Rangers have no cap space. Realistically, the only team we could trade Ovi to would be one that needs to get to the Cap floor, such as the Islanders for many years.
Rocking the Red for teams on the banks of the Potomac and at the Gateway Arch and Singing the Blues about Hockey.
Jesus. Everyone needs to chill the fuck out. He’s not done. Not at all. He had 85 points in his worst professional season last year. He’s 26 years old. He has two Hart Trophies. 300+ goals in less than 500 games.
He will figure it out. We’re 16 games in. Take a deep breath.
Roman Hamrlik is so bad that I've forgotten how bad Jeff Schultz is.
by Alex Reed on Nov 15, 2011 11:28 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
It’s been a lot longer than 16 games. He’s been ineffective and not worth $9 million since February 2010.
So the solution is to just abandon all hope and trade him? I really, really, really don’t think that’s the solution, and I can’t even believe that some people are ready to kick the captain off the boat.
Roman Hamrlik is so bad that I've forgotten how bad Jeff Schultz is.
I don’t think anyone outside of CI is saying “trade him”. I think people are wondering about the real value of this contract. He will almost certainly be in the top 5 in salaries for the rest of his career – barring absurd inflation and/or a massive increase in the cap. But is he now a top 5 player?
I would definitely consider trading him if a sweet enough offer was made. I probably would not be out looking to dump him, though.
It isn’t even anger-inducing. It does not seem to be worth that kind of emotional investment. It might not even be disappointing any more. It is expected.
-Peerless 5.6.2011
Well, I’d trade anyone if a sweet enough offer is made. But yeah, I don’t think anyone is seriously suggesting moving him to the Isles for spare parts, for instance.
I don’t think the Isles have a package of players I want over him.
"Don't mind WM...he's an all-around jerk."
by Whiter Mage on Nov 15, 2011 11:51 PM EST up reply actions
We’re already playing the “Everybody Chill” card. Aren’t you supposed to save that for 3-1 leads in the playoffs?
It isn’t even anger-inducing. It does not seem to be worth that kind of emotional investment. It might not even be disappointing any more. It is expected.
-Peerless 5.6.2011
My comment is not in response to any frustration regarding the loss. Trust me, this was brutal. I’m responding to the “trade him” sentiment regarding Ovechkin. I can’t even believe that it’s a conversation.
Roman Hamrlik is so bad that I've forgotten how bad Jeff Schultz is.
Neither can I, but as the games go by, it becomes harder to see him returning to the form of 2 years ago, or really even close to it for that matter.
It isn’t even anger-inducing. It does not seem to be worth that kind of emotional investment. It might not even be disappointing any more. It is expected.
-Peerless 5.6.2011
At the same time, he was among the league leaders in ESP last season (2nd by 1 point IIRC). PP rebounds, his numbers rebound. Team gets better, his numbers get better (better possession = more shots = more goals). There is some stuff in his control here, some stuff out of his control.
Red Line Station and @RedArmyLine, featuring coverage of the most frustrating team in the NHL
I believe in next year.
by red army line on Nov 16, 2011 12:55 AM EST up reply actions
Didn’t this team finish 1st in the east twice in a row? How much better can we expect?
Although maybe a different coach could change things.
It isn’t even anger-inducing. It does not seem to be worth that kind of emotional investment. It might not even be disappointing any more. It is expected.
-Peerless 5.6.2011
Place in the standings != quality of the team. Caps under BB have seen SF decrease, SA increase, fewer penalties drawn, more taken, etc.
How much better can we expect?
Expect? Not much. But they can be better, for sure. There are at least four better teams in the league right now. All of them are elite possession teams (track record of ~54% or higher Corsi). The Capitals haven’t been since 2009. Start with that.
Red Line Station and @RedArmyLine, featuring coverage of the most frustrating team in the NHL
I believe in next year.
by red army line on Nov 16, 2011 1:08 AM EST up reply actions
He’s had a stretch of games where hasn’t had pucks go in. He had a couple great looks tonight and Rinne made some big saves. Him and Nicky have set up linemates a couple of times in the last few games as well and the chances haven’t been buried. A couple games ago he was over a point a game player. A stretch of 4 games with like 1 point and he’s under that mark. Why? Cause it’s only Game 16. I think they idea he might not score 50 again is extremely valid…but when it’s becoming as hard as it is for ANYONE to do it, it’s not that surprising.
This team hasn’t hit full stride yet. Line juggling needs to stop at some point too. I still feel like Ovie has 90-100 point seasons in him. It wouldn’t take much for him to pot a couple and all of a sudden he’s back on 45 goal pace again.
Everything ends badly...otherwise it wouldn't end.
by Davethecapsfan on Nov 16, 2011 3:02 AM EST up reply actions
22 seconds after Caps got the lead, NSH scored. It’s hard to chill. It seems to happen very frequently with the Caps, or I am just ultra-sensitive to it. Or maybe both.
"One of the most difficult things everyone has to learn is that for your entire life you must keep fighting and adjusting if you hope to survive." -George Allen
said it before, but the NBA equivalent is Vince Carter
by DonnieKnutts on Nov 15, 2011 11:14 PM EST up reply actions
Vince Carter’s problem has always been lack-of-give-a-fuck. That’s never been Ovie’s problem.
"Essentially, all models are wrong, but some are useful" George E.P. Box
by Knee high to a duck on Nov 15, 2011 11:15 PM EST up reply actions
How long does Ovie’s slump have to last before we start lamenting taking him over Malkin?
by Flash in the Pan on Nov 15, 2011 11:28 PM EST up reply actions
Oh yeah, forgot about his injuries. I’m not a fan of him, but you can’t deny he’s playing better than Ovie right now.
by Flash in the Pan on Nov 15, 2011 11:33 PM EST up reply actions
Going with never.
"Essentially, all models are wrong, but some are useful" George E.P. Box
by Knee high to a duck on Nov 15, 2011 11:31 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
I’m much more likely to lament that the Caps missed Crosby by a year (but not nearly as much as the Blues lament getting Erik Johnson instead of Crosby).
"Essentially, all models are wrong, but some are useful" George E.P. Box
by Knee high to a duck on Nov 16, 2011 12:58 AM EST up reply actions
Never ever. Ever.
I'm on the twitters! Currently Watching: Catching up on Walking Dead
"Common sense is not so common."
Malkin is like the Center version of Sasha. Can be great, can be invisible. Ovie is better than Malkin.
Proud member of the Popsicle Division of the Cupcake Conference.
Yeah, if Semin were a career 1.19 PPG player with a Conn Smythe, who played with passion and takes a leadership role on his team, that’d be a great comparison.
by Flash in the Pan on Nov 15, 2011 11:58 PM EST up reply actions
who played with passion and takes a leadership role
Very things Malkin has been criticized for, no?
Red Line Station and @RedArmyLine, featuring coverage of the most frustrating team in the NHL
I believe in next year.
by red army line on Nov 16, 2011 12:56 AM EST up reply actions
From what I understand (though I try not to follow the Pens that closely) he’s been playing with a lot of passion this year, and has been a leader with Crosby out. Maybe it’s just the media slurping the Pens, but whenever I see highlights, it seems like they’re always praising Malkin for his compete level and desire.
by Flash in the Pan on Nov 16, 2011 1:14 AM EST up reply actions
He took elbowing PIM in consecutive games. I guess we could call that passion.
"Essentially, all models are wrong, but some are useful" George E.P. Box
by Knee high to a duck on Nov 16, 2011 1:15 AM EST up reply actions
I’d rather need to reign in a player than try to coax him out of his shell.
by Flash in the Pan on Nov 16, 2011 1:18 AM EST up reply actions
Funny thing about 28 is you need to rein in his stick (somewhat related: when did he start losing control of the puck so easily, even with time and space?) and coax out his “Imma win every single board battle this shift” self.
Red Line Station and @RedArmyLine, featuring coverage of the most frustrating team in the NHL
I believe in next year.
by red army line on Nov 16, 2011 1:21 AM EST up reply actions
They’ve built that narrative with his offseason training (which may be true, I don’t know) and he hasn’t shown anything to suggest the contrary. Yet. 10 games is a terribly small sample: we’ve seen Semin get hot for two months in a row before if memory serves (08-09, three months is what I’m thinking). Malkin could just be on a hot streak.
Red Line Station and @RedArmyLine, featuring coverage of the most frustrating team in the NHL
I believe in next year.
by red army line on Nov 16, 2011 1:17 AM EST up reply actions
which may be true, I don’t know
refers to the narrative, not training.
Red Line Station and @RedArmyLine, featuring coverage of the most frustrating team in the NHL
I believe in next year.
by red army line on Nov 16, 2011 1:19 AM EST up reply actions
His first four years, he had something like a 1.22 PPG. Discounting his last year, since it was derailed by injuries, he’s right around his career average, and doing it without Crosby to draw top defensemen. I don’t think this is really a hot streak for him, more him returning to how he played before last year.
by Flash in the Pan on Nov 16, 2011 1:22 AM EST up reply actions
Blasphemy…we all know Sid carried that team to the Cup, especially in Game 7.
Everything ends badly...otherwise it wouldn't end.
by Davethecapsfan on Nov 16, 2011 3:03 AM EST up reply actions
While I agree with the sentiment, let’s keep it on topic.
"Essentially, all models are wrong, but some are useful" George E.P. Box
by Knee high to a duck on Nov 15, 2011 11:10 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Tonight, you deserve a fistful of recs (and a few recs more)
"Fais gros comme moi!" - Alex Ovechkin
by Gould Old Days on Nov 15, 2011 11:11 PM EST reply actions
Remember when CSN’s Ovechkam was a legitimate highlight reel, most nights? For the last year, I’ve wondered when they’re going to retire that thing. I guess most fans still are drawn to the Ovechkin name, though.
Rather see Boudreaucam.
It isn’t even anger-inducing. It does not seem to be worth that kind of emotional investment. It might not even be disappointing any more. It is expected.
-Peerless 5.6.2011
Rather see
BoudreaucamBen&JerryCam
FTFY, had to.
But really I’d rather see “Mojovision” or “NicKam”
Bruce Boudreau when asked about Brooks Laich's return to the lineup, he said: "He just adds another dimension to our team. If it was puzzle, he just fits that thing. He completes us."
Brooks Laich completing everything from teams to tires and everything in between.
Semin needs a scratch.
Or Two.
It isn’t even anger-inducing. It does not seem to be worth that kind of emotional investment. It might not even be disappointing any more. It is expected.
-Peerless 5.6.2011
Yeah, Semin was awful tonig — wait, what?
"Essentially, all models are wrong, but some are useful" George E.P. Box
by Knee high to a duck on Nov 15, 2011 11:20 PM EST up reply actions
Don’t know how you can defend a guy who is not producing and taking stupid penalties at an alarming rate. I wouldn’t say that because he wasn’t in the center of the cluster fuck tonight that anything has changed over the past 5 games or so.
It isn’t even anger-inducing. It does not seem to be worth that kind of emotional investment. It might not even be disappointing any more. It is expected.
-Peerless 5.6.2011
Don’t know how you come to the conclusion that Semin wasn’t qualitatively and quantitatively better tonight, or that a scratch will do anything to help him.
"Essentially, all models are wrong, but some are useful" George E.P. Box
by Knee high to a duck on Nov 15, 2011 11:26 PM EST up reply actions
How else is that dumbfuck going to get the message to stop taking minors?
It isn’t even anger-inducing. It does not seem to be worth that kind of emotional investment. It might not even be disappointing any more. It is expected.
-Peerless 5.6.2011
It’s not a question of how else, it’s a question of why you think specifically a scratch will help him.
"Essentially, all models are wrong, but some are useful" George E.P. Box
by Knee high to a duck on Nov 15, 2011 11:28 PM EST up reply actions
I’d have to say it’s a stretch, but what else is there? Coddling? Check. Bitching about his penalties? Check. Sitting him down for a period, kind of, check.
It’s really back to addition by subtraction and why I wanted to see him traded over the summer.
It isn’t even anger-inducing. It does not seem to be worth that kind of emotional investment. It might not even be disappointing any more. It is expected.
-Peerless 5.6.2011
Process of elimination doesn’t mean that any of those things is going to work. Unless you have a specific reason for scratching him, that’s not something you want to throw at the wall to see if it sticks.
"Essentially, all models are wrong, but some are useful" George E.P. Box
by Knee high to a duck on Nov 15, 2011 11:36 PM EST up reply actions
So why should he keep being played? He could score, sure but so can any other player on the ice. Right now, you can pretty much guarantee 2 pims on the night, hit or miss fore/backchecking, 2nd PP unit duties, and no PK time.
All of which MP85 can do, without the 2 PiMs
No I’m not saying 85>28, but right now 28 is slumping, and doesn’t seem to be trying hard enough to break it cause he knows he protected by being a “star” player
Bruce Boudreau when asked about Brooks Laich's return to the lineup, he said: "He just adds another dimension to our team. If it was puzzle, he just fits that thing. He completes us."
Brooks Laich completing everything from teams to tires and everything in between.
Semin was excellent in the first period and not bad after that. His effort level certainly wasn’t his issue tonight – that would be Rinne.
MP85 takes PIM at a very high rate, which is one of the reasons that I don’t like seeing him on the ice against good offensive players.
I don’t think any of us know why Semin cares/tries in a given game or not. Sasha may not even know why. All that said, if you’re going to do the accountability thing, what makes more sense: benching him after a game in which he’s a passenger, or benching him after a moderately-good to decent game?
"Essentially, all models are wrong, but some are useful" George E.P. Box
by Knee high to a duck on Nov 15, 2011 11:49 PM EST up reply actions
I get what you’re saying here, but at the end of the day, the guy is the second-highest paid player on the team. His level of effort should be higher than “not bad”, and he should be able to a) recognize the fact that he’s got a reputation for HHT and b) go out of the way to minimize even the appearance of such penalties.
I know you’re not defending Semin, and are making the point that benching him would be counterproductive. I actually agree, but not because he had a good game, rather because I just think it would make him more neurotic than he already is.
Dude, at this point I don’t think that management can seriously expect Semin’s effort level to change significantly. He’s 27, or will be soon, and probably is what he is, which is a latter-day Alex Kovalev. Ridiculous hands, jaw-dropping skill, can make any play on the ice…but lacks the drive or consistency or whatever to push himself to greatness. I don’t think that when Semin was the 2nd highest paid player on the team last season that the team expected that to alter his effort level, nor do I think they expected that this year.
"Essentially, all models are wrong, but some are useful" George E.P. Box
by Knee high to a duck on Nov 16, 2011 12:02 AM EST up reply actions
So basically he was the same Semin from the Montreal series. Angry, showing effort, and being totally ineffectual. Didn’t keep us from being pissed at him them, why should it protect him now?
by Flash in the Pan on Nov 16, 2011 12:02 AM EST up reply actions
How do you measure effectual?
"Essentially, all models are wrong, but some are useful" George E.P. Box
by Knee high to a duck on Nov 16, 2011 12:03 AM EST up reply actions
For Sasha, effectual means being involved in the offense and generating goals.
by Flash in the Pan on Nov 16, 2011 12:04 AM EST up reply actions
He was involved in the offense, both in creating shots for other players and taking a couple of very high quality shots, as well as getting to at least one puck by charging the crease on a rebound. That’s not the same Semin that we saw in the MTL series.
"Essentially, all models are wrong, but some are useful" George E.P. Box
by Knee high to a duck on Nov 16, 2011 12:06 AM EST up reply actions
But ultimately, he didn’t create goals. That’s what’s worrying me; even when he’s having “good” games, effort wise, he still isn’t putting up points. It seems like he really has to be fired up to put in the effort needed to score, and that doesn’t happen often.
by Flash in the Pan on Nov 16, 2011 12:08 AM EST up reply actions
In a short sample, playing well is a lot more important to me than whether the puck went in the net on that particular night. A lot of scoring isn’t repeatable from game-to-game.
"Essentially, all models are wrong, but some are useful" George E.P. Box
by Knee high to a duck on Nov 16, 2011 12:21 AM EST up reply actions
But hasn’t he basically not been scoring (at least not at the elite pace you’d expect of someone making 6.7M) since the middle of last season? I feel like it’s been a while since he’s pulled himself together for an extended period of time.
by Flash in the Pan on Nov 16, 2011 12:25 AM EST up reply actions
Semin’s not been the same player that he was in the past, that’s definitely so. On the other hand, some players have entire seasons where everything bounces right for them when they’re on the ice. It’s weird, but it does happen. Some players have years where everything that can go wrong, does.
"Essentially, all models are wrong, but some are useful" George E.P. Box
by Knee high to a duck on Nov 16, 2011 12:30 AM EST up reply actions
How about just leave him be? Last season, only PK Subban exceeded 40 minors. This “problem” will fix itself. Maybe it could be fixed sooner, but at this point, I’d have thought you’d be at the “whatever, that’s Semin” point of thinking.
Red Line Station and @RedArmyLine, featuring coverage of the most frustrating team in the NHL
I believe in next year.
by red army line on Nov 16, 2011 12:58 AM EST up reply actions
It’s really back to addition by subtraction
If Semin were an ECHL-level player, this would make sense. Now that said, I can think of other ways to apportion that money, but prior to this season, Semin was a legitimate driver of play.
How much would you be willing to pay Ryan Suter this off-season? Would you consider throwing Semin’s entire salary at him and letting 28 go where ever? I think that option makes a lot more sense than just cutting him.
"Essentially, all models are wrong, but some are useful" George E.P. Box
by Knee high to a duck on Nov 15, 2011 11:57 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
I’m pretty sure I would too. I’d also consider throwing all the money that they were going to throw at Green at Shea Weber and try to bring them over as a tandem. At this point, I just can’t justify a big contract for term with a dude who’s hurt as often and for as long as Green.
"Essentially, all models are wrong, but some are useful" George E.P. Box
by Knee high to a duck on Nov 16, 2011 12:04 AM EST up reply actions
I don’t think the Green money brings Weber, but I’d obviously consider bringing them as the pair. Green’s durability is a real concern at this point. I think even just bringing Suter at 6.7 and re-signing Carlson might force Green out of the picture, unfortunately. Then again, maybe his injury problems keep him from getting much of a raise. If he can stay under 6 mill then that might be a good deal.
Please, call me F&B.
How do Weber and Suter stack up separately, though? The few NSH games I’ve watched, they each seem sort of lost out there without the other. Wasn’t that the justification for including Weber in the Canadian Olympic team, too?
Suter played for the US team, and was their best D. He and Rafalski were just overworked, if they had any real help that team could have had a better result.
I don’t think Weber is as good without Suter, but the sample size is really small so it’s hard to say.
Please, call me F&B.
I know small sample size, but do you think Suter is as good without Weber?
Proud member of the Popsicle Division of the Cupcake Conference.
Being on a pair certainly helps both players, but they’re both elite D. They’ll be fine no matter who they play with.
"Essentially, all models are wrong, but some are useful" George E.P. Box
by Knee high to a duck on Nov 16, 2011 12:26 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Other way around, Weber was not good last season without Suter.
I'm on the twitters! Currently Watching: Catching up on Walking Dead
"Common sense is not so common."
Weber, as an offensive D, can go more all out when he has an elite shutdown guy playing beside him. Hence, Weber would almost certainly be worse without Suter (kind of like Green at the start of last year, when he focused more on defense and reigned in his offense). I don’t think it quite works the same way for Suter. As long as he’s not paired with someone who’s a defensive liability, he won’t have to alter his game. So I’d think he’s roughly as good without Weber.
by Flash in the Pan on Nov 16, 2011 12:29 AM EST up reply actions
Yeah, I have no concern about Suter with anybody. I personally think he’s the better of the two.
Please, call me F&B.
Green can’t be relied upon to stay healthy, so for $6M, pass. In fact, just let someone sign him as an RFA and take the picks.
I like the guy but he may not have an NHL body. And getting older will not make it better.
It isn’t even anger-inducing. It does not seem to be worth that kind of emotional investment. It might not even be disappointing any more. It is expected.
-Peerless 5.6.2011
So, offer him 4×2 or something and either he signs, or someone offer sheets him? Only problem is that no one offer sheets right now. He could potentially file for arbitration, and we’d get him for one year at a shitty price, then lose him for nothing. Or he could just hold out for the whole year. We might be better off trading him at the draft if we decide he’s not worth his price.
by Flash in the Pan on Nov 16, 2011 12:22 AM EST up reply actions
Maybe if GMGM can nail the 1st from Columbus in return…
Red Line Station and @RedArmyLine, featuring coverage of the most frustrating team in the NHL
I believe in next year.
by red army line on Nov 16, 2011 1:01 AM EST up reply actions
I see what you did there.
If the season ended today, the Caps would have the 8th overall pick and a late 1st. ISS has the 8th best prospect as Brendan Gaunce, a 6’2, 215lb C from Belleville. I’m praying teams are scared of Russians and that Grigorenko falls to that area (Yakupov is gonna go first at this point, barring a total meltdown), but I think the Caps could do a lot worse than a big C at the 8th spot. I think I’ve seen it said that Gaunce isn’t an elite offensive player, but he brings a strong motor to the rink every night and isn’t an offensive stiff. A defensively responsible 2C type dude.
I could live with that.
"Essentially, all models are wrong, but some are useful" George E.P. Box
by Knee high to a duck on Nov 16, 2011 1:11 AM EST up reply actions
This was brought up a while ago, but Galchenyuk recently had a pretty serious knee injury, which could drop him into the Avs pick range. Wouldn’t mind having that kid.
by Flash in the Pan on Nov 16, 2011 1:28 AM EST up reply actions
Part of this is the stuff he’s asked to do on the ice, though. BB could give the guy a break, for instance, by having a “designated retriever” in a pairing with 52 (like F&B suggested a few weeks ago). He could learn how to handle checks better. And, finally, I think the NHL is going to come down harder and harder on the types of plays that have led to Green’s long-term injuries.
Finally, the team could sack up and show a little spine when he gets run (like he does every single game), and maybe it would stop. Who knows.
Green money doesn’t bring Weber, but Green/Wideman/Semin money probably brings both of them. Suter/Weber Carlson/Alzner is a Prongermayer level of horses to ride in the playoffs. Plus the third pair is then SchultzLik, which isn’t anything like as bad as some of the third pairs that have won SCFs recently.
This is essentially hoping that Kuz can replace a lot of Semin’s offense and the MoJo continues to grow into a legit NHL 2C, but it’s an interesting hypo.
"Essentially, all models are wrong, but some are useful" George E.P. Box
by Knee high to a duck on Nov 16, 2011 12:45 AM EST up reply actions
If we can get rid of Hamrlik’s contract too, I’d love this. Suter-Green, Carlson-Alzner, and Schultz-Erskine/Orlov could be the top D in the NHL.
by Flash in the Pan on Nov 16, 2011 12:16 AM EST up reply actions
If Semin walks, the money will be spent elsewhere. I can’t see the Caps not being a “cap” team for at least the next 5 years.
It isn’t even anger-inducing. It does not seem to be worth that kind of emotional investment. It might not even be disappointing any more. It is expected.
-Peerless 5.6.2011
But will it be spent effectively? Throwing money at players doesn’t mean they’re good, look at FLA. Truly elite players are very hard to replace.
Proud member of the Popsicle Division of the Cupcake Conference.
Actually FLA is doing quite nicely for themselves, though much of those contracts were to simply get to the floor.
And what elite player are we replacing? Semin? He’s had one year that bordered on elite, that’s it.
It isn’t even anger-inducing. It does not seem to be worth that kind of emotional investment. It might not even be disappointing any more. It is expected.
-Peerless 5.6.2011
The only thing that hasn’t been elite about Semin over the last four years is his ability to stay in the lineup. His per-minute, per-game, possession, scoring, and shooting percentage driving are all elite. This year is another story, but until I’ve seen otherwise, I’m guessing it’s just another Semin funk.
"Essentially, all models are wrong, but some are useful" George E.P. Box
by Knee high to a duck on Nov 16, 2011 12:37 AM EST up reply actions
He’s had some good seasons, but if you want to go the stat route, and I’ll give you the injury factor, he’s hit 40 goals once and been a point a game player twice in his career. If that’s elite for you, we have plenty of other options.
It isn’t even anger-inducing. It does not seem to be worth that kind of emotional investment. It might not even be disappointing any more. It is expected.
-Peerless 5.6.2011
Given that there were very few point-per-game players in those years (significantly less than one per team) and that 40 goals was good for sixth or seventh in the league in scoring, I’m not sure how you can make the case that those aren’t elite stats.
"Essentially, all models are wrong, but some are useful" George E.P. Box
by Knee high to a duck on Nov 16, 2011 12:57 AM EST up reply actions
But let me ask you, how elite has he been since May of 2009?
It isn’t even anger-inducing. It does not seem to be worth that kind of emotional investment. It might not even be disappointing any more. It is expected.
-Peerless 5.6.2011
He was very, very close to having the 3rd highest QoC and the best scoring chance% and best Corsi. On a team with Ovechkin and Backstrom.
That’s elite.
Red Line Station and @RedArmyLine, featuring coverage of the most frustrating team in the NHL
I believe in next year.
by red army line on Nov 16, 2011 1:03 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I’d rather have someone who can translate all the fancy stats into goals and maybe even brings some intangibles.
Over the past 81 regular season games he’s 31g, 31a. Over the past 16 playoff games, he’s 4g, 4a.
It isn’t even anger-inducing. It does not seem to be worth that kind of emotional investment. It might not even be disappointing any more. It is expected.
-Peerless 5.6.2011
31-31-62 essentially playing a checking role with defensive liabilities for centers and one of the best defensive wings in the game on the other side.
You want better, you’ve got Ryan Kesler, honestly.
Red Line Station and @RedArmyLine, featuring coverage of the most frustrating team in the NHL
I believe in next year.
by red army line on Nov 16, 2011 1:11 AM EST up reply actions
By not playing with a stick?
Buy the refs pre and post game beers?
Skater harder and play physical one in a while Um use stick more?
Bruce Boudreau when asked about Brooks Laich's return to the lineup, he said: "He just adds another dimension to our team. If it was puzzle, he just fits that thing. He completes us."
Brooks Laich completing everything from teams to tires and everything in between.
Yeah, he was much better tonight, at least to start. That penalty was crap and it seemed to slow him down.
Please, call me F&B.
You can’t fall back on the soft call defense at this point though.
It isn’t even anger-inducing. It does not seem to be worth that kind of emotional investment. It might not even be disappointing any more. It is expected.
-Peerless 5.6.2011
Tonight you can. Look at my bullet, I don’t fall back on it. It’s unacceptable. But tonight wasn’t the kind of performance to get him benched.
Please, call me F&B.
No, not per se. I’m really running on the steam from the past few games, and because he still managed to take a penalty, deserved or not, and still managed to go pointless, I still want him to sit, at the very least as a message tot the team that when you are told to stop taking stupid penalties and then keep getting them every single game, you will be punished.
I’m not sure I’m buying the culture of this team has changed.
It isn’t even anger-inducing. It does not seem to be worth that kind of emotional investment. It might not even be disappointing any more. It is expected.
-Peerless 5.6.2011
I’m not sure I’m buying the culture of this team has changed.
Haven’t we all been bitching about this since the start of the season?
"Essentially, all models are wrong, but some are useful" George E.P. Box
by Knee high to a duck on Nov 15, 2011 11:39 PM EST up reply actions
Many have. But you do get little vignettes like Ovi being “benched” for a shift at the end of the game, bag skates, etc.
I have very little faith in this team under BB come playoffs.
It isn’t even anger-inducing. It does not seem to be worth that kind of emotional investment. It might not even be disappointing any more. It is expected.
-Peerless 5.6.2011
I don’t think anyone is going to argue with you on that one.
"Essentially, all models are wrong, but some are useful" George E.P. Box
by Knee high to a duck on Nov 15, 2011 11:44 PM EST up reply actions
How else is he going to break that PiM streak?
Bruce Boudreau when asked about Brooks Laich's return to the lineup, he said: "He just adds another dimension to our team. If it was puzzle, he just fits that thing. He completes us."
Brooks Laich completing everything from teams to tires and everything in between.
I bet Knuble is pissed.
(Really should have made him captain…)
I'm on the twitters! Currently Watching: Catching up on Walking Dead
"Common sense is not so common."
The way he’s been reacting lately, I really wish he was. Maybe the C would give him some leeway in the room.
"Don't mind WM...he's an all-around jerk."
by Whiter Mage on Nov 15, 2011 11:35 PM EST up reply actions
Without having been in the Caps’ dressing room, I’m going to go ahead and bet that Knuble doesn’t need to C on his chest to get guys to listen.
"Essentially, all models are wrong, but some are useful" George E.P. Box
by Knee high to a duck on Nov 15, 2011 11:36 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
I’m not 100% sure people do listen. I think if they did, we’d see better efforts.
"Don't mind WM...he's an all-around jerk."
by Whiter Mage on Nov 15, 2011 11:39 PM EST up reply actions
I’m not sure that everyone in that room is reachable, or that changing Knuble from an A to a C will make a noticeable impact on how much of his message is adhered to.
"Essentially, all models are wrong, but some are useful" George E.P. Box
by Knee high to a duck on Nov 15, 2011 11:41 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
That’s fair, and looking back at it, I’ve defended Ovechkin as Captain by saying “I’m not in the room, what can I say?” in the past.
"Don't mind WM...he's an all-around jerk."
by Whiter Mage on Nov 15, 2011 11:44 PM EST up reply actions
Tonight I’m mad, but I realize that when two really solid teams meet, and both play great games, one is gonna leave fucking pissed and the other is going to leave happy as clams. I’m pissed at the loss, but holy cow if we didn’t see one hell of a hockey game, and for that, I’m glad.
However, for the Caps losing the way we did, I’m about to drink a liter of really good beer really fast, which pisses me off just as much. And I don’t care if I have work in the morning.
"Don't mind WM...he's an all-around jerk."
Both teams could of gone home happy as clams if it went to OT. Any team is going to be pissed off when they let in 2 goals 15 seconds apart with less than 30 in the game.
Bruce Boudreau when asked about Brooks Laich's return to the lineup, he said: "He just adds another dimension to our team. If it was puzzle, he just fits that thing. He completes us."
Brooks Laich completing everything from teams to tires and everything in between.
Oh, I’m totally pissed. But I also know that had I just watched, say, Los Angeles play against Detroit, I’d be leaving thinking “Holy shit, what a fucking game.”
"Don't mind WM...he's an all-around jerk."
by Whiter Mage on Nov 15, 2011 11:40 PM EST up reply actions
Just saying… All those people saying the loser point makes teams not try in the last few minutes of the game can watch tonight’s game and suck it :P
by Murshawursha on Nov 16, 2011 1:33 AM EST up reply actions
I can’t make sense of this. Can you clarify?
"One of the most difficult things everyone has to learn is that for your entire life you must keep fighting and adjusting if you hope to survive." -George Allen
Shootouts have been increasing in frequency, and people attribute that to the loser point, especially if it’s an inter-conference matchup—just play until OT and guarantee one point, then play for the second.
Red Line Station and @RedArmyLine, featuring coverage of the most frustrating team in the NHL
I believe in next year.
by red army line on Nov 16, 2011 1:19 PM EST up reply actions
the noob
Got it. Thanks. Sometimes these things read like cuneiform with no Rosetta stone.
"One of the most difficult things everyone has to learn is that for your entire life you must keep fighting and adjusting if you hope to survive." -George Allen
I don’t know, didn’t look to me like the Caps were trying very hard on D in the last 5 minutes.
Release the Mackan!
by Killer_Carlson on Nov 16, 2011 12:27 PM EST up reply actions
Can we start a petition to make Knuble the captain? It worked for killing the Bank of America debit card fee :)
I don’t think him being captain will change anything. The players on the team that don’t listen to him now still won’t listen. They are what they are. We’ve had enough seasons to determine the character of this team. Something big will need to change before we should expect a different outcome in the playoffs.
by vtcapsfan99 on Nov 16, 2011 12:32 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Besides, it would be pretty ridiculous to strip Ovechkin of the C just to give it to a guy who probably won’t be around after the end of this year. As much as I would love to have had Knuble be our captain the last few years, we’re now committed to Ovechkin. Taking his C away would undermine him in the future, which I’m not ready to do yet.
Warning: I started watching hockey in 2007. So, yeah.
by Laich Button on Nov 16, 2011 3:32 AM EST up reply actions
Something big will need to change before we should expect a different outcome in the playoffs.
Gonna need a big cupholder change
Release the Mackan!
by Killer_Carlson on Nov 16, 2011 12:30 PM EST up reply actions
Semin looked good early.
He was getting shots off and they were on net. He even seemed to be making an effort to skate with guys rather then hack at them with his stick. I really thought this might be one of those games that he catches fire and carries the team but then he took that penalty. I couldn’t tell if it was deserved or not, but he had one more good play as he came out of the box and then seemed to disappear for the night.
…and it was all looking so good at the start. Maybe a heated game against our fierce division rival the Winnipegs will jump start him.
For most of the game
I was thinking to myself that we weren’t really playing good D, but both teams were blowing their opportunities by fanning on their shots, not getting the puck with 100%, and just inexplicably giving the puck away. A few times they left Vokoun out to dry only to have a pred fan on a shot leaving me thinking, I’m glad these guys suck, then we’d do the same thing 5 seconds later leaving me thinking: we suck too.
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