With Two Spots to Win, Who Makes the Team?
by David Getz on Sep 22, 2010 2:30 PM EDT
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PrintThe first cuts of the Capitals' training camp have occurred, and the team plays its first pre-season game tonight in Columbus, which means, in addition to getting closer to opening night and genuinely meaningful hockey, we're getting closer to knowing what the 2010-11 version of the Washington Capitals will look like.
Much of the roster is all but set. Forwards Alex Ovechkin, Nicklas Backstrom, Alexander Semin, Mike Knuble, Brooks Laich, Tomas Fleischmann, Jason Chimera, Eric Fehr, David Steckel, Boyd Gordon, D.J. King, and Matt Bradley will almost certainly start the season in Washington (barring injury or trade), along with the seven defenseman who finished the season with the team and the two young goaltenders, giving the Capitals a total of 21 players... and leaving two spots to be won, both at forward.
Provided that the team doesn't make any additional pre-season roster changes, does indeed carry 14 forwards, everyone stays healthy, and no dark horse candidate(s) like Keith Aucoin or Matt Hendricks make an undeniable push, the competition for those two spots should come down to four players: Jay Beagle, Andrew Gordon, Marcus Johansson, and Mathieu Perreault. Make the jump to see what we see as the pros and cons of keeping each, and who we think makes the final cut.
Jay Beagle
Why he'll make the team: From a development standpoint, there's not much more Beagle can learn (or do) at the AHL level. From a personnel standpoint, Beagle brings qualities the Capitals would be happy to have: grit, size, and the ability to play as a wing or as a center. While Beagle doesn't have the offensive potential of Mathieu Perreault, Marcus Johansson, or even Andrew Gordon, he's also already consistently demonstrated an ability to play a bottom six role in North America. That is, his ceiling's undoubtedly lower than the guys he's fighting for a spot, but his floor might not be as low, either.
Why he won't make the team: Beagle probably doesn't bring enough offensive ability to be considered for a third line role, so he's essentially going to be battling Andrew Gordon and whichever of the two centers doesn't win the competition to open the season on the third line. Given that others have more offensive talent - and that Beagle can still be sent to Hershey without having to clear waivers - it's hard to see the upside of keeping him in Washington.
Prediction: Starts the season in Hershey
Andrew Gordon
Why he'll make the team: In his first two professional seasons, Gordon proved his ability to be an effective energy line player at the minor league level; last year he showed that he's capable of being a top-tier AHL points producer as well. To what extent that offensive ability carries over to the NHL remains to be seen, but now is the time to give Gordon a chance to show what he can do at the highest level, especially since Gordon's versatility and the fact he "earns high marks for his work ethic and compatibility in the dressing room" means there's relatively little downside.
Just as importantly, Gordon's waiver-eligible, and a young player with his character and versatility is unlikely to make it through waivers. In fact, if Gordon did find himself on the waiver wire, there's a decent chance he could find himself headed back to Pennsylvania, 250 miles to the Northwest. You know, to a certain NHL team that's always looking for wingers, that claimed a young Capitals player last fall, and whose captain has more than a passing familiarity with Gordon.
Why he won't make the team: The Capitals are deep on the wings, and it'd take an injury for Gordon to see anything more than fourth line minutes. In addition, either Mathieu Perreault (who looked solid in his time in the NHL last year) or Marcus Johansson (who has a better pedigree) is likely to make the team out of camp as the third line center, and Gordon doesn't clearly win out over Perreault, Johansson, or Jay Beagle for the last spot.
Prediction: Breaks camp with the team
Marcus Johansson
Why he'll make the team: Of the four players under consideration, he has the most talent and may be the best player at the NHL level at this point. The case can also be made that come April, Marcus Johansson with a decent amount of NHL experience under his belt gives the Capitals a better chance to win in the playoffs - especially if he progresses more quickly than expected and is a legitimate second liner by the point.
Don't underestimate the power of the "out" clause in Johansson's contract (if Johansson doesn't make the Capitals, he has the option to return to Sweden for the season). In the long run, the Capitals roster is going to be determined by who the coaching staff and front office gives the team the best chance to win; at this point, however, it would make sense to keep Johansson around if the team thinks he could be useful at any point this year. It prevents the Caps from making a commitment they might soon regret and garners favor with the player, hopefully making it less likely he enacts the clause at a later point and leaving the option open for the Caps to send Johansson to Hershey in November or December.
Why he won't make the team: Johansson's the guy with whom the Capitals have the least familiarity, and he's the only one who's never played an NHL game or a North American season. If the Caps decide to go with a risk averse strategy, it could mean sticking with the guys they know the best.
Prediction: Breaks camp with the team... but let's chat again after a pre-season game or two.
Mathieu Perreault
Why he'll make the team: Perreault's NHL experience far outweighs that of anyone else in this group, both in terms of quality and quantity, and he has, by all accounts, done very well centering Eric Fehr and Jason Chimera in training camp. Either Perreault or Johansson is going to take the third line center job, and if it's awarded on achievement, as opposed to potential, he has to be the front-runner.
Why he won't make the team: He can be assigned to Hershey without passing through waivers or potentially heading overseas for a year. With so much risk involved with cutting either Gordon or Johansson, there's a very good chance Matty's waiver-exempt status is going to decide his fate.
Prediction: Starts the season in Hershey... even if the Caps don't like it. The reality is where Perreault starts the season is largely, if not entirely, dependent on what the team decides to do with Marcus Johansson. If the team begrudgingly sends Perreault back to Hershey, it wouldn't be the first time the Capitals couldn't field their best team as a result of the CBA (think Karl Alzner in Hershey because Michael Nylander was still on the books, or losing Chris Bourque on waivers).
Without a doubt, tough decisions lie ahead for Caps management, and these four players are likely to be in the thick of those calls; the days and weeks ahead are sure to be interesting ones for players, coaches and fans alike.
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DP had a good theory while we were both half drunk: MP makes it as the center and they stick #90 on the wing somewhere. Why not?
Why wouldn't you play Perreault? He's a really talented young player.
So you sacrifice Gordon to the waiver wire?
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So he has to make the Caps or else that happens?
If so, yes. I don’t think he’d get picked up.
Why wouldn't you play Perreault? He's a really talented young player.
I dunno, I find that Western Pennsylvania scenario possible. And I don’t like it at all.
"It's always good to have vikings."
They tried it with Bourque, who was arguably a lot more proven than Gordon, and it didn’t work out. I don’t think they’d go to the same well again.
Why wouldn't you play Perreault? He's a really talented young player.
Low risk, high reward. And familiarity with the face of the team. I’d pick him up.
"It's always good to have vikings."
I think they already signed their potential diamond in the rough for the season in Mike Comrie.
Why wouldn't you play Perreault? He's a really talented young player.
Agreed, there’s Comrie and further Jeffrey and Letestu are making very strong cases to stay in the NHL. Brett Sterling has maybe had the best camp of anyone. Plus Tangradi’s impressing (but let’s talk after a preseason game or two, as it was written above).
Last year I predicted the Pens would pickup Bourque as soon as he hit the waiver wire….This year my gut tells me they won’t be looking at A. Gordon. I think the young Penguin players are having much better camps and are closer to NHL ready this year than they were last…
…But then again I’ve been wrong before.
"Game's the same. Just got more fierce."
Neither do I, keep him up in a Sloan-esque capacity.
I have a twitter.
Not another Capitals blog!
"Victory is sweetest when you've known defeat"
took the comparison right off of my keyboard. Gordon is this years Sloan. We know how much GMGM and BB love those character guys in the press box every night.
"If you want money, go to the bank. If you want bread, go to the bakery. If you want goals, go to the net." - Brooks Laich
"...I got the most gentlemanly player in juniors my last year. I'm a gentleman, always a gentleman." - Matt Bradley
its because they don’t bitch when Ovie asks for nachos.
Watching the O’s try to use strategy is like watching Mike Green trying to figure out the difference between "your" and "you’re"--Terpgrrl
Donation info for SAVES FOR KIDS 2010!! Make a difference.
I like Gordon, but I don’t know if I like Gordon enough to risk delaying Mackan’s NHL-level development as an eventual 2/3C. I think he’s got to learn the NA game as soon as possible and get as much experience as he can so that he’ll be better, sooner.
by DrinkingPartner on Sep 22, 2010 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions
And, at this point, MP seems more valuable to the current make-up of this team as a 3C than A. Gordon is as a 3/4W.
by DrinkingPartner on Sep 22, 2010 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Give him the Backstrom treatment.. play his ass on line 4 and let him prove himself.
Why wouldn't you play Perreault? He's a really talented young player.
But you can have Gordon and Mackan here… if Perreault is in Hershey.
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At the risk of missing out on a prospect who might be better than both?
"#DCU is like senior prom. A bunch of people standing around waiting for a 17-year old to score."
by Bald Pollack on Sep 22, 2010 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions
No. Did you not see where I’m lobbying for 85 and 90 to both make it?
Why wouldn't you play Perreault? He's a really talented young player.
Lobby has nothing to do with it; see J.P. below.
"#DCU is like senior prom. A bunch of people standing around waiting for a 17-year old to score."
by Bald Pollack on Sep 22, 2010 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions
I was saying who should make it, not trying to divine the future.
Why wouldn't you play Perreault? He's a really talented young player.
It’s not reading tea leaves, but in this case what they should do is going to clash with losing assets for nothing or stunting said asset growth, and you could make a case both of those happened last year.
"#DCU is like senior prom. A bunch of people standing around waiting for a 17-year old to score."
by Bald Pollack on Sep 22, 2010 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Isn’t that always the risk, though? Plus, AG doesn’t exactly slip into the lineup the way that MP/MJ do.
by DrinkingPartner on Sep 22, 2010 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Whether or not that’s the case, I think you’re perhaps underestimating the waiver implications here. Is Perreault in Hershey and Gordon in D.C. at the beginning of the season worse for the organization than Perreault in D.C. and Gordon in some other NHL city at the same time?
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I guess not since the Caps will get their wins in any case. Plus B Gordon’s back will blow out soon enough. It’s not the worst situation, but I don’t really like it much.
Why wouldn't you play Perreault? He's a really talented young player.
And I think that’s the rational answer here. As D says in the post, it may not be the best team the Caps can ice, but it’s perhaps the most likely.
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I believe Andrew Gordon will play more NHL games in his career than Mathieu Perreault.
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Sep 22, 2010 4:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Just because he has twitter doesn’t make him a better player.
Why wouldn't you play Perreault? He's a really talented young player.
Yep, that’s what I’m basing my opinion of! Perhaps it’s because I’m a woman.
I have a twitter.
Not another Capitals blog!
"Victory is sweetest when you've known defeat"
burn?
Everything ends badly...otherwise it wouldn't end.
by Davethecapsfan on Sep 22, 2010 4:56 PM EDT up reply actions
She burns herself for our entertainment, I guess.
Why wouldn't you play Perreault? He's a really talented young player.
I’m just entertained watching you two go at it
Everything ends badly...otherwise it wouldn't end.
by Davethecapsfan on Sep 22, 2010 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Isolate that
"Now wait a minute. This is just purely a social call. You know, just two adults getting a stew on, man."
by The Ghost of Bebop on Sep 22, 2010 5:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Sarcasm?
I have a twitter.
Not another Capitals blog!
"Victory is sweetest when you've known defeat"
Indeed.
Everything ends badly...otherwise it wouldn't end.
by Davethecapsfan on Sep 22, 2010 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions
better player? I wouldn’t know. Better fit for the NHL in 2010 — yeah, I think he is.
the margin for error for MP is much smaller than for Andrew Gordon because he can’t help the team in as many ways.
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Sep 22, 2010 5:11 PM EDT up reply actions
MP gets no credit for his backchecking/defense, he can be powered out of the way a bit but he is a smooth poke checker and stick lifter and he gets into position quickly. Obviously, Datsyuk is 1000x better but they play defense in the same mold. MP’s positioning will get better as well the more experience and coaching he gets.
"Have you ever played?" "Yes, I was a goalie"
MP is pretty good defensively for a scoring line center. I wouldn’t want him in a dedicated defensive role.
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Sep 22, 2010 5:17 PM EDT up reply actions
That’s cause you hate him since he’s not as tall as Sloan. I don’t know with the focus on head shots MP might be a little safer now.
Everything ends badly...otherwise it wouldn't end.
by Davethecapsfan on Sep 22, 2010 4:53 PM EDT up reply actions
I love Mathieu Perreault almost as much as JDC does, I just see Gordo’s style as one that begets a longer career.
I have a twitter.
Not another Capitals blog!
"Victory is sweetest when you've known defeat"
You underrate my love for him.
Why wouldn't you play Perreault? He's a really talented young player.
I adore me some MP. Not to your level, I admit.
I have a twitter.
Not another Capitals blog!
"Victory is sweetest when you've known defeat"
just to break this one down a bit, I love MP and think he is way better, but there is a chance A. Gordon gets waived/traded and finds himself on a shit team that has a use for him, like we had in 2006-2007 with the Ben Clymers and Brian Willsies of the world. Just because you get games played doesn’t make you better than a guy that is buried on a stacked team.
"Have you ever played?" "Yes, I was a goalie"
Good point.
Everything ends badly...otherwise it wouldn't end.
by Davethecapsfan on Sep 22, 2010 5:02 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t think Gordon needs to find a shit team to contribute. For every shifty short small speedy center in the NHL right now, I think I can name four penalty killing grinders who can score a little who play for good teams.
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Sep 22, 2010 5:13 PM EDT up reply actions
I think a MP/MJ combo gives the Caps an overall better team than an AG/MJ one.
by DrinkingPartner on Sep 22, 2010 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t disagree. But it all circles back to the reality of waivers here.
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Are you arguing what you think should happen, or what you think the Caps will do? Or neither?
by DrinkingPartner on Sep 22, 2010 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Snarky!
The reality is that he’s an asset and GMGM is loathe to lose assets for nothing (as he should be).
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I also think Andrew Gordon could be a valued addition to the roster and could provide some added flexibility with his versatility as he could play in a top 6 role or a bottom 6 role depending on the need.
Personally, I’d like to see him be given a chance to nail down a roster spot.
I definitely would like to see Gordon given a real chance. Otherwise, spending all the time and money they have developing him seems like quite a waste.
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Exactly, give him a chance to make it, if he can’t keep up, send him to Hershey.
I have a twitter.
Not another Capitals blog!
"Victory is sweetest when you've known defeat"
His contribution to two Calder Cup teams is not exactly worthless.
'Cause the end of what it was is what it is right now...
To the Washington Capitals, it’s not exactly valuable (other than somewhat tangentially).
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Given that GMGM and the organization have repeatedly stated that they think there’s value in having young players playing on a winning team and going deep in the playoffs in the AHL, I would argue it’s not as tangential as you’re suggesting.
'Cause the end of what it was is what it is right now...
How so? I think the value to which you’re referring lies in the players getting to the NHL with that ostensibly valuable experience, so if Gordon doesn’t play in D.C., where’s the benefit to the organization? In his contributions to the Bears team on which other Caps won? That would be my definition of tangential here.
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I just don’t think that’s quite as tangential as you’re making it out. The Caps are successful because they’ve drafted and developed young talent. Part of that development is playing for a good team in Hershey that goes deep in the playoffs. Gordon was a big part of that team.
Potayto-Potahto.
'Cause the end of what it was is what it is right now...
Right, I agree for the most part.
But if your talking about Andrew Gordon’s individual contributions to making the Bears a winning team and thus providing Karl Alzner with a more valuable AHL experience… that sounds pretty tangential (and “Andrew Gordon” there could be “Graham Mink” or whomever).
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Fair enough, but I do think that playing with guys like Helmer, Aucoin and the like has probably helped some our players develop.
'Cause the end of what it was is what it is right now...
Forgive me if I’m putting words in your mouth, but are you saying Gordon has value for his AHL accomplishments, even if he achieves nothing in the NHL, because it lets guys like Alzner, Carlson, and Neuvirth get that playoff experience?
“And I’d like to be the King of all Londinium and wear a shiny hat.” — Malcolm Reynolds.
Gordon deserving a shot is—and should be—secondary to what is best for the team. And the scenarios put forth regarding these four players don’t really lend themselves Gordon getting a spot on the opening night roster.
And if this scenario is tough, just what are we all going to think while debating “deserves vs. best for the team” when #10 comes up in contract discussions?
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by Boggles on Sep 22, 2010 6:01 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I assume that comment is in the context that both MP and MJ would be in the line-up?
I agree with your thoughts about the waiver issue.
I think they have more options as a hockey club right now if 85 and 90 are in DC than if 63 and 90 are (i.e. 90 on the wing, 85 and 90 splitting some time at 3C to start, etc.)
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Well, the issue as I see it is laid out in the post and discussed in other posts (and something I discussed at length elsewhere yesterday.)
Potentially lose A Gordon via waivers to keep both Perreault and Johansson and sit one of the two (MP/MJ) assuming they do start the season with Fleischmann at 2C.
My assumption based on previous actions, the waiver situation, and playing time is that it’s one of MJ/MP and A Gordon unless Gordon flops during preseason games and I don’t expect him to flop. Also, whatever intel the Caps have about waiver claim possibilities and that is in part based on what happens to other teams throughout the preseason.
Hendricks is the wild card, but I am assuming he’ll end up signing a 2-way contract and be sent to Hershey to start if he signs with the Caps and there are no injuries/transactions.
As noted in the original post, all of this is based on the assumption of no injuries and no transactions removing or adding a roster player from outside of the camp participants.
It’ll probably be perreault who plays 3C long-term, but Mackan’s back-to-Sweden clause makes it so unpredictable.
Would Mackan really go back to European ice rather than put in a bit of time learning how to play North American hockey in the AHL for a while? Seems like that would be a self-destructive choice. He won’t learn how to make the Caps by playing in the SEL.
You had me at no problem.
Plus SEL season has already started, I think.
Why wouldn't you play Perreault? He's a really talented young player.
Given the lack of free agent signings, one thing is for sure — this team isn’t going look very different than it did last year…and I hope that’s a good thing.
I for the most part liked what I saw out of Perreault last season, but I’m also very interested to see what Johansson can do at this level, so I’m a bit torn as a fan what I’d like to see happen there. I do agree with the assessment regarding Johansson’s out-clause though…if this team is serious about evaluating him at the NHL level this year, they’ll probably do what they can to at least keep him in North America.
"I am ready for his provocations"
by PaintDrinkingPete on Sep 22, 2010 2:41 PM EDT reply actions
What are the chances of Boyd Kane cracking the opening night lineup?
Why wouldn't you play Perreault? He's a really talented young player.
The Caps would have to sign him to a contract (he’s currently on a Hershey deal). So very, very slim.
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Very true.
And the issues – cap issues and limited number of players on low cap hit contracts – do not exist like last year, but I did laugh at the post, since this time last year even knowing the cap issues, I think there are very few people who would placed their money on Kane being the one on the opening day roster.
Just as importantly, Gordon’s waiver-eligible, and a young player with his character and versatility is unlikely to make it through waivers.
That’s the important point, I think. Flash to 2C, and I got MP at 3C at this point.
you hit the real prob. Flash is still the #2C while we figure our if these kids can cut it in the NHL. If we were confident that mackan, MP, and gordon were solid, nhl ready guys would we still have Flash around?
"If you want money, go to the bank. If you want bread, go to the bakery. If you want goals, go to the net." - Brooks Laich
"...I got the most gentlemanly player in juniors my last year. I'm a gentleman, always a gentleman." - Matt Bradley
He was rumored to be traded for a while..
Why wouldn't you play Perreault? He's a really talented young player.
just like we had a ‘missing 8 teeth’ center ready and waiting in the wings to replace….
"If you want money, go to the bank. If you want bread, go to the bakery. If you want goals, go to the net." - Brooks Laich
"...I got the most gentlemanly player in juniors my last year. I'm a gentleman, always a gentleman." - Matt Bradley
hopefully making it less likely he enacts the clause at a later point and leaving the option open for the Caps to send Johansson to Hershey in November or December.
Do we know for sure that he is allowed to play in the NHL and then go back to play in Sweden in the same season?
Pft why play a small French guy when you have a Svensk viking.
I know from Forsberg last year that you can’t play in Sweden and then come over here.. does it go the say way from here to there?
Why wouldn't you play Perreault? He's a really talented young player.
I can’t think of a player that have done it. It wasn’t possible to do it before but there are new rules and as I said before I’m not sure that anyone really know how they are suppose to work yet.
I guess it’s possible that the usual go-back-to-juniors rule apply here.
It’s really a theoretical discussion anyway because I don’t think there will be a spot available on his SEL team.
Pft why play a small French guy when you have a Svensk viking.
What about another team? Or do they own his rights or something?
Why wouldn't you play Perreault? He's a really talented young player.
I don’t know, I would guess that they at least have first dibs on him.
The really puzzling thing with Marcus Johansson, at least to me is that I’m not sure that a whole lot of SEL teams will be interested in picking him up if he was available in a month or two. It’s just something wrong when one of the presumably best teams in NHL most likely will fit him on their roster but he’s still not a shoe-in for teams (IMO) in what’s only the second or third best league in the world. I know a lot of his value is his potential but I still think it’s a bit weird.
Pft why play a small French guy when you have a Svensk viking.
It seems unlikely that McPhee would say something like “we’re really confident he can play in the league this year and play for us”, then ship him off to Sweden.
The waiver eligibility is the tail wagging the dog here: I dont see McPhee giving up Gordon so I think he makes the squad with Johansson. But the outlier here may be Matty P’s chemistry makes giving up Gordon a luxury they can afford.
The bottom line is the kids are going to get their chances- they have to make the most of them.
I know Dallas did it with Wandell in ‘08-09. Some type of arrangement with Brynas and the loan, but I don’t recall all of the details. I can look up some information, but pretty sure Dallas was in a jam as to roster players and players under contract and Wandell came back over for several games then went back to Sweden and then returned to Dallas again later in the season.
The difference between this and a Forsberg type situation is that Wandell was on loan from Dallas.
Oops, typo, that should read Timra not Brynas.
And he came over and played in 4 games when Dallas was down forwards due to injuries (and Avery,) then went back to Timra then returned in late March (I assume the second time was after his SEL season was over based on the timing.)
and about his return in March 2009
Confirmation that the second stint with Dallas in’08-09 was after Timra was eliminated from the playoffs.
I think the Wandell situation is the best comparison we have but with the new rules in place I don’t know how much that will tell us. I’ve tried to find out how this works for quiet some time with no luck so far. If you find out something I’d be very interested to know about it.
Pft why play a small French guy when you have a Svensk viking.
This entire thread is sticking with the premise that DMG lays out in the post – that there are 12 spots set for those guys.
Is there no chance that we might decide to cut someone or trade someone for lesser value to make room for 63, 85 and 90?
Perhaps 15? 39? 14?
In the NFL and MLB there are always a veteran or two that don’t fit with a particular team each year and get cut or given away in a trade?
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In the NFL and MLB there are always a veteran or two that don’t fit with a particular team each year and get cut or given away in a trade?
True, but given the differences in the CBA’s and the salary cap implications, its difficult to compare the NHL to those leagues.
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by Sombrero Guy on Sep 22, 2010 3:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Does salary get accelerated up if someone like 39 gets cut with a multi-year contract?
Life With Spidey -- a blog about sports, travel, work, family and fun.
Representing Caps fandom in the Gateway to the West.
There’s no “cut” like in the NFL. There’s a buyout period, but that’s another animal. “Cutting” Steckel (for example) would mean sending him – and the remainder of his contract – through waivers to Hershey, which just isn’t a realistic scenario.
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Can’t they run him through waivers and see if he gets claimed? That doesn’t seem like such a bad idea, since I’m guessing if there was a trade market for him it would have materialized by now.
Choking since 1985.
No – if he gets claimed, he’s gone (you can’t pull a guy back, like post-trade deadline MLB).
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Plus having a trade market for a guy isn’t necessarily linked to waivers – unless they need to dump salary and/or free up roster spots, I’d assume a club is more likely to grab a guy for nothing rather than have to give up assets of any kind for him.
If anyone needs me, I'll be at Kettler.
Based on our 4th line depth, Steckels contract moving for nothing seems ok to me.
Choking since 1985.
There would be a bit of addition-by-subtraction if the Caps were to rid themselves of that deal (which is why I argued last month or whenever that they should be trying to trade him).
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Right, but again…not big on losing something and getting nothing in return.
If his contract was more of a burden than it is (and yes, every $ counts, blah blah blah…) it wouldn’t be such a big deal. But it’s less than $2 million, that’s not a Nylander-esque deal. I’d rather see them milk another team for anything – prospects, draft picks, whatever they can get.
If anyone needs me, I'll be at Kettler.
Of course. If they’d truly be in better shape by simply unloading the contract with nothing in return, they’d have already buried him in Hershey.
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To be fair, are they to the point in the offseason where that’s even technically possible? For all we know they might not be totally opposed to that (depending on how the preseason shakes out), they just haven’t gotten to the point where they’d do it yet.
Purely Devil’s advocate by the way, not saying I’m expecting it to happen (although I’d be mildly pleased to see it if only because its a bold statement and, as you say, could be addition-by-subtraction).
I have to disagree, at least as it pertains to this season. Steckel does have some value and I don’t know what else the Caps would do with that salary cap space, so…
Agreed – which is why I said “a bit of addition-by-subtraction,” etc. I do not think the Caps would be a better team right now if David Steckel were sent through waivers and claimed.
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You never want to lose something for nothing. It’s a last resort – for the team that grabs the guy, it’s great, but for the team having to put the guy on waivers in the first place it sucks. Say what you will about his value to this team and his overpaid contract – I’d hate to lose him for nothing, that would suck.
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But would you trade him for Jay Beagle?
Why wouldn't you play Perreault? He's a really talented young player.
I’m sure he would work hard to learn if he had to.
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"Victory is sweetest when you've known defeat"
Will nobody cry for Jay Beagle?
Why wouldn't you play Perreault? He's a really talented young player.
Again, your manlove clouds your judgement.
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"Victory is sweetest when you've known defeat"
(cough) SLOAN (cough)
'Cause the end of what it was is what it is right now...
by D'ohboy on Sep 22, 2010 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
That isn’t manlove.
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"Victory is sweetest when you've known defeat"
hey, has terp given you the picture so we an all have sexy Tyler Sloan magnets on our fridges?
Watching the O’s try to use strategy is like watching Mike Green trying to figure out the difference between "your" and "you’re"--Terpgrrl
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No! I need to remind her!
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"Victory is sweetest when you've known defeat"
Also that’s mostly a joke.
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"Victory is sweetest when you've known defeat"
That line was erased long ago.
Why wouldn't you play Perreault? He's a really talented young player.
No it wasn’t. The entire thing is just a big elaborate joke for a guy whose hard work and dedication I admire.
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"Victory is sweetest when you've known defeat"
You aren’t really getting nothing – what you’re getting is an additional roster spot and free salary.
What would you expect to get back for him? I can’t see much more than a 5th or 6th round pick.
Choking since 1985.
Right, but there’s no guarantee that whoever takes that spot fills it any better than Stecks does.
And no, I wouldn’t expect more than a late pick if it was just Steckel going the other way. But that’s more than nothing, and while sometimes 5th and 6th round picks are worthless, there are also all kinds of guys drafted late who turn into something decent. Better to take the chance that you can find someone. If not, no big deal, but if you can that trade looks even better down the road.
If anyone needs me, I'll be at Kettler.
If the Caps were willing to give Steckel away for nothing then Belanger would be here. Obviously GMGM wants something in return, and that something is more than anyone else was willing to give. Unless all the kids blow the doors off during the pre-season I just don’t find this remotely likely.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
I don’t think there’s much of a market for B. Gordon or Steckel right now, and I’d be wary of waiving Flash since I don’t know what you do at 2C in that scenario.
So it’s clear now that neither 85 or 90 can play 2C, as some had previously hoped?
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Flash just has the inside track for right now. MP’s, IMO, is a much better C, but has way less experience, and Mackan has yet to play a game against another NHL team.
by DrinkingPartner on Sep 22, 2010 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions
I know this doesn’t have anything to do with who will take the two roster spots……but what happened to Laing? Let go? Another team? KHL? Hershey?
His contract with the Caps expired and, as far as I know, he’s looking for work (I don’t think he’s gotten any tryouts yet, either).
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Which would bring you back to why on earth did he get a roster spot in the first place?
'Cause the end of what it was is what it is right now...
by D'ohboy on Sep 22, 2010 3:28 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
currently contract-less.
Watching the O’s try to use strategy is like watching Mike Green trying to figure out the difference between "your" and "you’re"--Terpgrrl
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No clue as of now.
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"Victory is sweetest when you've known defeat"
So is Aucoin going to have to go through waivers this year?
Why wouldn't you play Perreault? He's a really talented young player.
I’m not really worried about losing he or A Gordon to waivers.
Why wouldn't you play Perreault? He's a really talented young player.
Let’s just give shit away!
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I like him too, but I’d rather have Johansson not in Sweden and Perreault with the Caps where he has so far proved he belongs this year.
Why wouldn't you play Perreault? He's a really talented young player.
I think your judgement is clouded by your manlove.
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"Victory is sweetest when you've known defeat"
Still clouded.
I’d prefer MP and AG, Mackan to Hershey. I mean, the swedish season started, he can just stay here…
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Keep in mind they’ve only done scrimmages, playing against teammates (some of whom are still prospects/kids) and it’s only been less than a week. I agree he looked great with Chimera and Fehr…so far. But he looked good the first time he came up last year, too, and kind of petered out.
Cautious optimism, my friend.
If anyone needs me, I'll be at Kettler.
by Becca H on Sep 22, 2010 3:35 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Good reality check, there, B.
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Fuck that noise, I bought a jersey.
Why wouldn't you play Perreault? He's a really talented young player.
by jordanDC on Sep 22, 2010 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
So it’s “kind of petered out” and great camp against no North American experience/ok camp and almost as much NHL experience/unremarkable camp?
Why wouldn't you play Perreault? He's a really talented young player.
And why even have training camp if it means nothing?
Why wouldn't you play Perreault? He's a really talented young player.
I don’t believe I said it means nothing – it’s certainly important. However, it’s been like 6 days, waaay too early to make a judgement call based on what is basically a glorified team practice.
See how he does in the preseason games, see how Johansson does in the preseason games. And just as we don’t know that Perreault is a bona fide NHLer based on just this first week, we also don’t know that Mackan ISN’T based on the same timespan.
If anyone needs me, I'll be at Kettler.
Mackan’s not Backstrom, but Backstrom was unimpressive in camps and his first month or so playing the wrong position, too.
by DrinkingPartner on Sep 22, 2010 3:47 PM EDT up reply actions
No. It’s “waiver exempt” vs. “has to clear waivers” vs. “will go back to Sweden.”
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I can honestly say that I wouldn’t have ever expected A. Gordon to be a part of a debate involving his importance/circumstances v. Mackan’s/MP’s. I honestly have no reading on how the Caps value him as a prospect outside of the fact that he is currently contracted to them.
by DrinkingPartner on Sep 22, 2010 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions
That’s not good asset management. Someone will get hurt, MarJo and Perry will have their times. There’s no reason to sacrifice an asset to ensure that that time is right now.
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Some shit is okay to give away. I’m more annoyed about us losing Osala for essentially nothing than Aucoin or even A Gordon. On the fence about Gordon, we’ll see.
Everything ends badly...otherwise it wouldn't end.
by Davethecapsfan on Sep 22, 2010 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions
I had a response, but this expresses it more concisely.
by DrinkingPartner on Sep 22, 2010 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Granted, but if we’re talking about potential to get better, losing someone like Aucoin means basically nothing, and A Gordon hasn’t done anything at the NHL level yet to elevate him above Osala’s level in my mind. I’m of the mind that we shouldn’t lose him for nothing if there is another solution but if he gets caught up in a numbers game that’s just how it goes sometimes.
Everything ends badly...otherwise it wouldn't end.
by Davethecapsfan on Sep 22, 2010 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions
At the same level, Gordo was miles ahead of Osala. Osala’s skating was absolutely atrocious.
Moreover, we actually got something back for Osala. Just because Corvo didn’t pan out doesn’t mean we got nothing back for him.
'Cause the end of what it was is what it is right now...
I suppose you could say we got something back for him, just cause we didn’t bring him back after the fact doesn’t change that so yes, that’s true. My point being I’d like to see AG get a chance to show what he can do…but if he was really an important piece (something we’d hate losing for nothing) he wouldn’t need to show it.
Everything ends badly...otherwise it wouldn't end.
by Davethecapsfan on Sep 22, 2010 4:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Gordon is also a better grinder than Osala ever was. He kills penalties and is very disciplined
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Sep 22, 2010 4:56 PM EDT up reply actions
I’d also like to point out how bad the pk was last year.
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"Victory is sweetest when you've known defeat"
I thought we had established yesterday that it was Tom Poti’s fault
Everything ends badly...otherwise it wouldn't end.
by Davethecapsfan on Sep 22, 2010 4:58 PM EDT up reply actions
So we have AG up here to help and make it better!
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"Victory is sweetest when you've known defeat"
I have no problems with this
Everything ends badly...otherwise it wouldn't end.
by Davethecapsfan on Sep 22, 2010 5:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Hahaha. I was kidding besides we have the young guys up to take care of that.
Everything ends badly...otherwise it wouldn't end.
by Davethecapsfan on Sep 22, 2010 5:00 PM EDT up reply actions
What should happen versus what will happen
I think DMG is spot-on with what will happen – Gordon and MarJo will make the lineup out of camp while MP gets sent back down to Hershey.
What should happen, however, is that MarJo should go to Hershey while MP stays with the Caps as #3C. Stupid out clause.
'Cause the end of what it was is what it is right now...
Obviously the out clause is problematic…but I was saying the other day that we don’t know what he’ll choose to do if he doesn’t make the Caps.
It’s an option to go back to Sweden, sure; however, I believe he’s mentioned on a few occasions how much of an adjustment it is to go from a European rink to an NHL-sized one. I’m starting to wonder if he wouldn’t agree to go to Hershey at this point, if he knew it would give him more practice and help him adjust faster.
If anyone needs me, I'll be at Kettler.
I can almost swear he said somewhere that he’d be open to playing there a little.
Why wouldn't you play Perreault? He's a really talented young player.
I don’t recall him saying that (though I do believe Kuznetsov said that), but I could be wrong.
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Question
Does anyone here put any stock in the lines that have been used thus far in the Duchesne Cup?
The reason I ask is that all the other lines and d-pairings look pretty set: Ovie-Backis-Knuble, Semin-Flash-Laich, . . . etc.
Does anyone believe that MP has an inside track on #3C because he’s been playing with Fehr and Chimera?
'Cause the end of what it was is what it is right now...
I’d like to believe it’s a mild indication of where BB et all place people, yes.
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"Victory is sweetest when you've known defeat"
Why cant MP and MJ make the two spots?
I read something about Gordon being put on waivers but why? He was already in hershey and of the 3 is currently less skilled and further behind in dev.
Bruce Boudreau when asked about Brooks Laich's return to the lineup, he said: "He just adds another dimension to our team. If it was puzzle, he just fits that thing. He completes us."
Brooks Laich completing everything from teams to tires and everything in between.
I don’t know if I’m the only one, but I’m sick and tired of the Caps not putting the best 23 players on the roster because they “can’t” send a guy to Hershey who belongs there. If Andrew Gordon isn’t good enough to make the team, he shouldn’t make the team. Either find a trade partner, or risk the waivers.
If the Penguins are so starved for wingers that they’ll pick up another Caps castoff who isn’t ready for the big leagues yet, then bully for them.
You had me at no problem.
by Ninjak on Sep 22, 2010 3:52 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Said better than I tried to above.
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But at this point we don’t really know if he can or can’t.
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"Victory is sweetest when you've known defeat"
Exactly. He’s had really minimal NHL time – one game, right? Maybe two? Of all the Hershey guys he probably has the least amount of NHL experience. I’d be reluctant to toss him away without giving him a decent look with the big team. This should be his year to prove that he belongs up here – if he can’t cut it, THEN we send him down and risk exposing him to waivers.
If anyone needs me, I'll be at Kettler.
He’s had a whopping 3 games.
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Nah, we should not give players a tryout during the regular season at the expense of guys that we know can hang at the NHL level. That’s what camp and preseason is for.
Why wouldn't you play Perreault? He's a really talented young player.
So wait, who do we have in this scenario who we know can hang? MP didn’t hang on his second stint.
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He didn’t have the same opportunities as MP did. I forget how the injuries shook out but MP got 2nd/3rd line minutes pretty consistently. Gordon was called up primarily to fill a very minor role. Let’s see what he does in a bigger one.
If anyone needs me, I'll be at Kettler.
He didn’t play as well as MP did, either. And MP was called up to fill a VERY fucking minor role. Centering Sloan and Clark!?
Why wouldn't you play Perreault? He's a really talented young player.
Watch them play. MP is better.
Any argument for A. Gordon is based on his waiver eligibility. It is a legitimate argument but lets not confuse it for skill.
"Have you ever played?" "Yes, I was a goalie"
No, it isn’t. They play two different positions, and Gordon can kill penalties. MP is a skill guy, pure and simple.
'Cause the end of what it was is what it is right now...
Beat me to it. They’re not competing for the same spot here – they bring different things to the table, and I’d like to see what Gordon could do given as much opportunity as MP had last year.
If anyone needs me, I'll be at Kettler.
There’s very little space for Ws up here, though, and I doubt he’s gonna learn how to play C, quickly.
by DrinkingPartner on Sep 22, 2010 4:19 PM EDT up reply actions
So would I, but I’m willing to send him through waivers to see it. That’s the difference, and neither of us is going to change the other’s mind, it looks like.
Why wouldn't you play Perreault? He's a really talented young player.
But if you send him through waivers, you never will. If you send Matty P through waivers, he’ll be back.
If anyone needs me, I'll be at Kettler.
Again, WE DISAGREE on if he’ll be picked up. Time will tell, because that sucker gettin’ sent through waivers.
Why wouldn't you play Perreault? He's a really talented young player.
What do you think the caps are losing by keeping AG?
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"Victory is sweetest when you've known defeat"
3rd line familiarity, chemistry, and consistency, I’d guess.
by DrinkingPartner on Sep 22, 2010 4:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Morale? Really? I’ve heard only good things about Ag in the locker room.
And I seriously double that AG would lose the caps two games.
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"Victory is sweetest when you've known defeat"
I don’t know if 113 points would cut it…
Everything ends badly...otherwise it wouldn't end.
by Davethecapsfan on Sep 22, 2010 4:36 PM EDT up reply actions
I’d be stunned if the delta between AG63 and MP85 was larger than six goals scored or prevented over the course of a season. It would either mean that Gordon is far worse than we think he is or that MP85 is ready for real contributions in the NHL at above the regular 3rd line level. Or both.
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by Knee high to a duck on Sep 22, 2010 6:52 PM EDT up reply actions
keep AG and MP, let Mackan develop more.
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"Victory is sweetest when you've known defeat"
Sure, if he’ll go to Hershey. That’s what everybody would like.
Why wouldn't you play Perreault? He's a really talented young player.
Not me, personally. I’d have him take the Backis route.
by DrinkingPartner on Sep 22, 2010 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions
For the 8th time, this. But if that’s not an option (and we have no idea what he would do if he didn’t make the team right now) you have to look for alternative measures.
Everything ends badly...otherwise it wouldn't end.
by Davethecapsfan on Sep 22, 2010 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Is it really going to kill him to go to friggen Sweden one more year? It didn’t kill Varlamov to go back for one more year.
Frankly, I think people expect too much of him, but whatever.
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"Victory is sweetest when you've known defeat"
So you’re saying you DO like MP? :)
Everything ends badly...otherwise it wouldn't end.
by Davethecapsfan on Sep 22, 2010 4:35 PM EDT up reply actions
I love MP, but I don’t want to lose a proven AHL commodity/possible NHL commodity for the chance a rookie in his first NA year can keep up for 82 games.
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"Victory is sweetest when you've known defeat"
The potential commodity that MJ90 could become after an entire year in the N is worth a lot more to me than anything that AG can bring to the team as a 4th liner.
by DrinkingPartner on Sep 22, 2010 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Maybe I’m just not that high on MJ.
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"Victory is sweetest when you've known defeat"
It’s not even that. This kid with the potential to be a useful cog can become that useful cog much quicker by playing in a situation that will teach him exactly how to become that useful cog. He’s not Backis 2.0, as far as we know, but Backs was WAY better in year 2 than he was in year 1.
by DrinkingPartner on Sep 22, 2010 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Backis was way better at the end of year 1 than the beginning. Not saying Mackan has that in him, but if playing him early makes him a legitimate 2C by the playoffs then it’s worth it to play him now, even if AG and MP are currently better/further developed.
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I think that MJ90 is going to struggle mightily in his first few months in the NHL, if he’s here to start the year. He’s still very young and he’s yet to play a North American slate of games.
In my mind, the most likely scenario is that he comes up, gets hammered for a few months and becomes a reasonable 3rd line NHL player this season; a guy that doesn’t get waxed in his own end and can chip in some offense occasionally.
"Essentially, all models are wrong, but some are useful" George E.P. Box
by Knee high to a duck on Sep 22, 2010 6:55 PM EDT up reply actions
I think he would probably have a tough time right off the bat, and I agree that he should ideally start in HER, but I don’t think it’s unreasonable to think that he might be the kind of guy that could get through some growing pains early and be a solid contributor late. Unlike a lot of rookies who hit the wall because they physically are not capable of competing against men all season, Mackan has 2 years of competing against men, and by the sound of the descriptions I’ve seen he is very well built through the legs and core. His problem is not physical maturity or skill, it’s just the style of play. It’s likely that he would hit a physical wall late in the season, but I think it will be less pronounced than with a guy like MP or even AGord.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
I’m down with that, but both AGord and MP have been playing men for 82 games plus postseason, instead of 41.
I think it’s pretty damn unlikely that MJ90 is a legimate 2nd line player by the end of this year (I think that’s in the upper half of his expected ceiling for his career), but I can see him contributing well on the 3rd line.
"Essentially, all models are wrong, but some are useful" George E.P. Box
by Knee high to a duck on Sep 22, 2010 7:25 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m scared that he burns out near the end of the season (WSH’ season must be near-double the SEL season) and if he looks good, the Caps don’t feel the need to find a good replacement.
by red army line on Sep 23, 2010 1:44 PM EDT up reply actions
I think MJ90 is more than a 8 months away from being better than what MP is in a April.
"Have you ever played?" "Yes, I was a goalie"
If he goes back to Sweden this statement is definitely true.
Everything ends badly...otherwise it wouldn't end.
by Davethecapsfan on Sep 22, 2010 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree with that. My point in a nutshell…I don’t think AG is such a tremendous prospect that deserves a ton of tears if we lost him, but when we’re in a position where we wouldn’t have to lose that asset and give him a chance to show if he’s worth more than we think…we should give him his shot and let Mackan go back to Sweden or send MP down to Hershey.
Everything ends badly...otherwise it wouldn't end.
by Davethecapsfan on Sep 22, 2010 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions
MP HAS DONE SO WELL IN CAMP GOD FORBID HE HAVE TO GO BACK TO HERSHEY! CHIMERA MIGHT CRY!
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"Victory is sweetest when you've known defeat"
Well if I thought it might actually make Chimera cry I’d have AG on waivers faster than Chimmer can skate ;)
Everything ends badly...otherwise it wouldn't end.
by Davethecapsfan on Sep 22, 2010 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions
It’s like Hershey is hell to JDC and he must rescue the Damsel in distress (MP) from it.
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"Victory is sweetest when you've known defeat"
You could say the same thing about what is being said about sweden and Mackan.
"Have you ever played?" "Yes, I was a goalie"
It’s definitely more true for Mackan, IMO.
by DrinkingPartner on Sep 22, 2010 4:47 PM EDT up reply actions
It’s like Andrew Gordon is the man with the golden cock, and you guys all can’t get enough of it.
Why wouldn't you play Perreault? He's a really talented young player.
Ah, hahahahahahaha. This isn’t a Bond movie.
by DrinkingPartner on Sep 22, 2010 4:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Now you’re just being silly.
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"Victory is sweetest when you've known defeat"
I’m done being shitty with everyone, I’d rather be silly and friendly.
Why wouldn't you play Perreault? He's a really talented young player.
I just wish you’d put the manlove aside and see reason.
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"Victory is sweetest when you've known defeat"
I understand your argument. I just disagree. There doesn’t have to be a winner in every discussion.
Why wouldn't you play Perreault? He's a really talented young player.
Okay, as long as you see the merit, my work here is done.
Good game everyone, hit the showers.
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"Victory is sweetest when you've known defeat"
So which one of you is doing the other’s back then?
Everything ends badly...otherwise it wouldn't end.
by Davethecapsfan on Sep 22, 2010 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions
That was the joke I already made, yes.
Why wouldn't you play Perreault? He's a really talented young player.
Kenny Powers would come to the ice like the power of God himself behind him.
Everything ends badly...otherwise it wouldn't end.
by Davethecapsfan on Sep 22, 2010 4:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Incomparable situations. Being a Swedish C is very much different to being a NA C. Goalies stop pucks.
by DrinkingPartner on Sep 22, 2010 4:36 PM EDT up reply actions
You don’t think a 24 year old who scored 37 goals in the AHL, and 13 in 17 playoff games, with high marks for character and versatility is going to pique the interest of any of the other 29 NHL teams?
Not if they know you need to put him through waivers.
'Cause the end of what it was is what it is right now...
Just because you waive a guy doesnt mean that the team that wants him will get him.
"Have you ever played?" "Yes, I was a goalie"
by MikeyGreen on Sep 22, 2010 4:36 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Right, but lets also not overstate Gordon’s value to the franchise. I think everyone here is overrating him.
Why wouldn't you play Perreault? He's a really talented young player.
Who is overrating him? I just want to see how he does with a regular NHL role before I dismiss him outright. No one’s saying he deserves 1st line duties or even 3rd line – but I think I want to see more than 7 minutes/game for 3 games before I send him packing.
If anyone needs me, I'll be at Kettler.
We’re saying, play him some games, see how he does, send him down if he stinks. That’s perfectly reasonable.
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"Victory is sweetest when you've known defeat"
I’d expect him to stink a little bit, if he was destined to wow everyone right away, he wouldn’t be someone who people felt needed “a chance” to show what he can do.
Everything ends badly...otherwise it wouldn't end.
by Davethecapsfan on Sep 22, 2010 4:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Thanks, Dave. Holy shit, this is all I’m trying to say.
Why wouldn't you play Perreault? He's a really talented young player.
All I hear coming out of your mouth is “I LOVE MATHIEU PEEREAULT”
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"Victory is sweetest when you've known defeat"
Agreed…but it’s also true in my mind that him playing in some games isn’t going to hurt us at all. It’s essentially what others are saying…we don’t NEED our best 23 players to play at the start (or even most of) of the regular season. Especially if it means we could lose our 23rd-25th best one (depending on how you rank ’em)
Everything ends badly...otherwise it wouldn't end.
by Davethecapsfan on Sep 22, 2010 4:25 PM EDT up reply actions
He’s a 4th-line guy! He’s not going to set the world on fire and the only reason he’s in this discussion is because he’s a cusp player – but they still have to prove they can play. That’s ALL we’re saying.
If anyone needs me, I'll be at Kettler.
We have 28 fourth line guys. I don’t need to see each of them in NHL games this season. If Gordon is good enough to make the team, he should. If he’s not, he shouldn’t.
Why wouldn't you play Perreault? He's a really talented young player.
Again…agreed. But there is no sense losing a guy who may be just outside of the top 23 when we could sit #23 and play #24 and keep both of them.
Everything ends badly...otherwise it wouldn't end.
by Davethecapsfan on Sep 22, 2010 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions
So he’s just supposed to magically demonstrate it with no ice time?
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read me directly above you
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by Davethecapsfan on Sep 22, 2010 4:26 PM EDT up reply actions
This. Or at least he hasn’t had the opportunity to show it yet. But it’s not that easy to make space to give him an opportunity. Some guys should get one, others just suffer from the numbers game.
Everything ends badly...otherwise it wouldn't end.
by Davethecapsfan on Sep 22, 2010 4:20 PM EDT up reply actions
No, we aren’t.
Let’s say MarJo’s future value is an 8, but his present value is a 5.
Let’s say MP’s future value is a 7, but his present value is a 6.
Let’s say AGord’s future value is a 5, and his present value is also a 5.
Now let’s say that if MarJo doesn’t make the team, the probability of him not playing for the Caps this year is 90%. Let’s also also say that if Gordo doesn’t make the team, the probability of him getting picked up on waivers is 90%. Let’s also say that if MP doesn’t make the team out of camp, the likelihood of him playing for the Caps this year is 90%.
I’m saying I’d rather keep two guys who might be less valuable in the short run because of the high probability of losing both of them.
'Cause the end of what it was is what it is right now...
by D'ohboy on Sep 22, 2010 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
It’s not 90% for him to get picked up, though. It just isn’t, and that’s where you’re overrating the player.
Why wouldn't you play Perreault? He's a really talented young player.
What does a team lose in claiming him? Absolutely nothing. He isn’t expensive and is pretty damn good in the AHL.
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I would put the odds of him getting picked up at well above 75%.
'Cause the end of what it was is what it is right now...
A top line player on by far the best AHL team? Someone will take him.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
Much, much older and with obvious flaws to their game (Giroux – skating and defense; Aucoin – size and defense).
'Cause the end of what it was is what it is right now...
(Giroux – skating and defense
and release and decision making and strength and …
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by Knee high to a duck on Sep 23, 2010 10:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Calm down, yeesh.
MP averaged 11:21 in his games, including over 10 minutes in his very first call-up. Gordo got just over 7 minutes in his first game (2 years ago) and didn’t crack the 7-minute mark in the 2 games he got last year. He was called up to fill an even more minor role than MP was, partly because they will play different roles in general but let’s not dismiss a guy who has a grand total of about 21 minutes in the NHL just because he “didn’t stick”.
If anyone needs me, I'll be at Kettler.
Another caveat, all 3 of his games were on the road and from what I recall, 2 of his 3 call-ups also included some not so fun travel/arrival times. 1 game in ’08-09 at MSG and 2 games in Canada in ’09-10.
HE’S A LOST CAUSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WAIVE HIM!!!!!!!!!!
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You’re the first person to express that opinion in this discussion.
Why wouldn't you play Perreault? He's a really talented young player.
Just know that if you go all Tyler Sloan on A. Gordon it is going to kill his development to get no game time.
If he gets game time (over who btw? Matt Bradley? B. Gordon?) then he is hurting the team.
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Because Matt Bradley is such a revelation in 4th liners.
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When you say that…then I start to get angry and defensive ;)
Everything ends badly...otherwise it wouldn't end.
by Davethecapsfan on Sep 22, 2010 4:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Huge agree.
Everything ends badly...otherwise it wouldn't end.
by Davethecapsfan on Sep 22, 2010 4:30 PM EDT up reply actions
But he isn’t that good.
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We’re talking about a 4th liner so what is the actual “that good” we could be hoping for? He has other qualities on this team that he’s already proven too.
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by Davethecapsfan on Sep 22, 2010 4:32 PM EDT up reply actions
How do we know this exactly given AG has 3 NHL games and under 21 minutes?
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AG has 3 NHL games and under 21 minutes
by DrinkingPartner on Sep 22, 2010 4:32 PM EDT up reply actions
haha, right. Should we give Joe Finley a look since he hasn’t been given a chance?
Why wouldn't you play Perreault? He's a really talented young player.
Not the same at all but I chuckled.
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by Davethecapsfan on Sep 22, 2010 4:36 PM EDT up reply actions
That isn’t a fair comparison and you know it.
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The difference between the two is similar to the difference between Gordon and Bradley, so I’m just matching what you’re putting out there.
Why wouldn't you play Perreault? He's a really talented young player.
I don’t think it’s that similar really
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by Davethecapsfan on Sep 22, 2010 4:38 PM EDT up reply actions
HAHAHAHAHAHA
No
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"Victory is sweetest when you've known defeat"
There you go overrating Gordon again.
Why wouldn't you play Perreault? He's a really talented young player.
Joe Finley won’t make it in the American League.
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NO YOU’RE A JOKE!
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Real anger or just CAPS?
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by Davethecapsfan on Sep 22, 2010 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Just caps for sillyness.
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I was more alluding to the “if he deserved more time than that, he’d have gotten it” side of things.
by DrinkingPartner on Sep 22, 2010 4:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Which oddly enough I agree with as well
Everything ends badly...otherwise it wouldn't end.
by Davethecapsfan on Sep 22, 2010 4:38 PM EDT up reply actions
We have too many 3/4 line wingers, he hasn’t gotten the opportunity. Like I said, if he sucks, waive him, but see what you have first!
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If he was good enough, he’d have displaced those wingers, like Steckel did to ol’ whosehisass.
Why wouldn't you play Perreault? He's a really talented young player.
Hey we got a 2nd round pick for Sutherby didn’t we?
Everything ends badly...otherwise it wouldn't end.
by Davethecapsfan on Sep 22, 2010 4:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Indeed which is what (sadly to give Huet credit) started the whole ball rolling.
Everything ends badly...otherwise it wouldn't end.
by Davethecapsfan on Sep 22, 2010 4:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Just good enough. Good enough to push a guy out.
Why wouldn't you play Perreault? He's a really talented young player.
Maybe he was still developing? I just don’t get why having him up for a while kills the caps. Keep mackan and AG, send AG down if he can’t keep up or contribute.
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Nobody is saying it kills the caps. I’m saying it’s getting tiring to watch them fuck around and not put the best team they can on the ice. Everyone agreed when it was lil Karl Alzner getting squeezed.
Why wouldn't you play Perreault? He's a really talented young player.
Comparing Alzner to AG is also not really reasonable either though.
Everything ends badly...otherwise it wouldn't end.
by Davethecapsfan on Sep 22, 2010 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m saying it’s getting tiring to watch them fuck around and not put the best team they can on the ice.
No one’s disputing that we want to see the Capitals field the best team. But “keep Perreault even at the expense of Gordon” doesn’t necessarily fulfill that criteria because (1) we don’t know what Gordon’s contribution at the NHL level will be like and (2) when you factor in injuries and such there’s a very good chance the Capitals end up putting weaker teams on the ice, on average, by losing a guy to play a slightly better one in the short term.
AGAIN, I’m not convinced it’s at the expense of Gordon. That’s where we differ. I can’t keep typing this.
Why wouldn't you play Perreault? He's a really talented young player.
So this really boils down to you believing he’d clear waivers, and the rest of us believing he won’t.
Can we put this argument to bed already?
'Cause the end of what it was is what it is right now...
When you can eliminate any chance of it happening, that has to be the best solution. Whether you think it would or not, why take the chance when we don’t need to. Argument over.
Everything ends badly...otherwise it wouldn't end.
by Davethecapsfan on Sep 22, 2010 4:52 PM EDT up reply actions
And I’ll ask again – why don’t you think Gordon won’t be attractive to at least one NHL team?
You get a chance to pick up a 24 year old guy who scored 50 goals in the AHL last year, has good character, can play in an energy role or, potentially in a scoring role, and you can get him for nothing. Why don’t you think at least one team takes the chance?
I’d add he is on a one year contract with a cap hit of $500,000, the minimum cap hit for a 1 year contract for this season.
(I know 37+13 equals 50 but you can make your argument without making it sound like he’s a 50 goal scorer :) )
Probably wouldn’t even come to that…you know someone will get hurt eventually and we’d have to call someone up anyways.
Everything ends badly...otherwise it wouldn't end.
by Davethecapsfan on Sep 22, 2010 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Matt Bradley is an improvement over A. Gordon
Matt Bradley’s career high in goals is 33, for the Kingston Frontenacs of the OHL – Juniors.
Andrew Gordon just scored 37 against grown men in the 2nd or 3rd toughest league in the world.
Bradley may be better now, but I’m not so sure he’ll stay that way much longer.
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Sep 22, 2010 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Neither are/would be in the NHL for their goal scoring.
Also, see Giroux, Alex and Borque, Chris when considering how well AHL goal scoring translates to the NHL.
"Have you ever played?" "Yes, I was a goalie"
But the point was that the Gordon/Bradley comparison isn’t a great one, not that Gordon’s going to be a great NHL goal scorer.
The point is Andrew Gordon has more upside than Matt Bradley.
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Sep 22, 2010 5:13 PM EDT up reply actions
My point is that A. Gordon is going to have to beat out Matt Bradley to get playing time, that he isnt going to beat out Bradley, and therefore he will have his development severely hampered (as he will be in the press box with Sloan). That will stop him from being able to beat out Bradley in the future.
As an aside, my unborn nephew has more upside than Matt Bradley.
"Have you ever played?" "Yes, I was a goalie"
I’m not convinced 3 scoring lines is how Boudreau is going to go this year or that it’s a good idea. Might have grinders at both 3RW and 4RW this year (what a concept!)
But then, I’ve been very vocal about saying that I’d like the team’s four most offensively inclined wings (Ovi, Semin, Knuble and Fehr) on the top two lines, and that means moving Semin over.
Ovi C Knuble
Semin C Fehr
Laich C A. Gordon
Chimera C Bradley
looks like a pretty balanced and deep set of forwards to me. I might rather see lines like that than three scoring lines and one grinder line
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Sep 22, 2010 5:56 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m not convinced that’s true. Bradley has quietly outperformed a lot of 3rd line players in the NHL according to the metrics I can find on BtN. He’s a 4th liner because he can’t finish at all, not because he can’t contribute in other ways.
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by Knee high to a duck on Sep 22, 2010 7:02 PM EDT up reply actions
You know a guy named Giroux scored a few goals against those same “grown men” and didn’t look so hot that same year against NHL type “grown men”.
Everything ends badly...otherwise it wouldn't end.
by Davethecapsfan on Sep 22, 2010 5:05 PM EDT up reply actions
And if you watched Giroux and Andrew Gordon play for Hershey, you would see that they are different players with different skillsets.
Andrew Gordon’s wrist shot release is NHL caliber, IMO. From what I have seen. His skating isn’t going to hold him back and he’s not afraid to get involved along the boards and play a physical game. He’s not the biggest guy but he’s solidly built and he’s willing to muck it up in front of the net and in the corners. He also doesn’t take a shift off.
I know they are vastly different players…but the league’s are vastly different as well AG wouldn’t be putting up goal totals up here that he did in the A…especially not with 4th line minutes.
Everything ends badly...otherwise it wouldn't end.
by Davethecapsfan on Sep 22, 2010 5:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Nobody’s claiming he’s a 30 goal scorer in the NHL. Only that he might turn out to be better than Bradley some day — more skilled and just as good defensively
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Sep 22, 2010 5:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Again, just as good defensively is a high bar for a player like AGord when we’re talking about Matt Bradley. Dude flat-out gets the puck up the ice and limits opponents shooting.
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by Knee high to a duck on Sep 22, 2010 7:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Giroux’s been in more organizations than Gordon has had pro seasons, there’s a bit of a difference.
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by Bald Pollack on Sep 22, 2010 5:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Bradley was already an NHL regular by the time he was 24. I think it’s fair to believe he may have had a big goal scoring year in the AHL if he had stayed a couple more years.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
Matt Bradley was on an NHL roster, but he spent a number of games as a healthy scratch for the San Jose Sharks once he made the NHL roster for the ’01-02 season. He spent some time as a healthy scratch in ’02-03, as well.
And AGordon will surely be a healthy scratch several times even if he makes the team out of camp. However you qualify Bradley’s NHL experience, he made the league at least 2 years earlier than AGordon.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
I was simply pointing out that Bradley played 2 full seasons in the AHL before making it to a full season on an NHL roster and when he did he was a depth player, who saw time as a healthy scratch.
IMO, Andrew Gordon has developed as a prospect and has earned an opportunity and I won’t be surprised if he carves out an NHL career as has Bradley.
I’m not disagreeing with anything you said, but your description of Bradley is exactly the same as what Gordon is attempting to do, but Bradley did it two years younger.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
His point is that we have that type of player in droves. We don’t have NHL centers in droves.
Why wouldn't you play Perreault? He's a really talented young player.
Name the droves of grinder wings who can kill penalties and score a bit. Chimera. Bradley. Whichever of Steckel or B. Gordon isn’t at center that night. Who else?
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Sep 22, 2010 5:05 PM EDT up reply actions
T Slo for winger!
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by Davethecapsfan on Sep 22, 2010 5:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Wooooooooooooooooooo!
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Knuble, Fehr, and I guess theoretically you only need 3 PKing wingers (plus a couple of injury replacements).
But how important is his PKing if no one is going to actually help the PK much?
by red army line on Sep 23, 2010 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions
3 games v 21 games.
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That’s because it was a post-deadline emergency call-up. They had to send him back down as soon as the player he was replacing got healthy.
He wasn’t as good, regardless.
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But preseason is such a different animal – Gordon’s played preseason games before, I want to see what he can do when the intensity is raised. And if the guy we “know” can hang at the NHL level (and to be fair, we don’t know that about Perreault yet) is also waiver-exempt…better to try out the guy who would be subjected to waivers.
Let’s face it, this whole regular season is the Caps’ equivalent to preseason for the playoffs – they have to see what works and what doesn’t, what they have in their prospects that they’ve been stockpiling all these years. If it means we lose a game here or there, so be it.
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I think the intensity of the 2nd-4th lines is pretty high in the preseason.
by DrinkingPartner on Sep 22, 2010 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t know if I’m the only one, but I’m sick and tired of the Caps not putting the best 23 players on the roster because they "can’t" send a guy to Hershey who belongs there. If Andrew Gordon isn’t good enough to make the team, he shouldn’t make the team.
And if Andrew Gordon’s good enough to make the team, but so are two of the other players?
C’mon DMG. Don’t play semantics.
You get 16 forwards and 7 D. He meant choose the best 23 players. You can always force rank.
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I’m not playing semantics. If the Capitals don’t think Andrew Gordon’s an NHL-caliber player, they should be comfortable waiving him. But if you have 14 spots for 15 NHL-caliber players, it makes sense to send someone to Hershey rather than waive someone else, right?
I understand, but there’s no simple response.
The notion of waiving vs. stashing in Hershey for a call-up is interesting.
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With all due respect (except that I mean that when I say it), the Caps don’t need to have their best 23 players on the roster on opening night. Today’s NHL isn’t just about who ices the best 20 players on a given night, it’s also about organizational depth and pissing away an asset that might bring you something else – or himself might be a contributor, given the chance – is just plain poor asset management.
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by J.P. on Sep 22, 2010 3:57 PM EDT up reply actions 5 recs
I agree. But keeping Gordon with the parent club when he’s not ready is just kicking the can down the road. He needs to be in the appropriate league for his development.
The waiver rules were intended to keep teams from stockpiling talent in other leagues, which is what the Caps have been doing. They’re being squeezed here, and in the worst way: they need to develop centers, not jettison them.
You had me at no problem.
Yes, Becca and Ovechwin want him to get a regular season tryout.
Why wouldn't you play Perreault? He's a really talented young player.
Ok, I guess I’m the only one that doesn’t think it’s a good idea to give a guy “a look” during the regular season.
Why wouldn't you play Perreault? He's a really talented young player.
Regular season means very, very little.
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Playing Andrew Gordon in a handful of NHL games will not ruin the 2010-11 season, I assure you.
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And this is why it’s ok to keep him and Mackan. Same reason we can have Erskine at 6D for 60 games this year and it won’t mean dick as far as us winning the Southeast and probably a top 2 seed in the East.
Everything ends badly...otherwise it wouldn't end.
by Davethecapsfan on Sep 22, 2010 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions
If you don’t give them a look during the regular season, when do you do it? In the case of a borderline player, you’re not going to be able to make that call for sure until you see him in a competitive game playing against NHL players.
So you sit a guy that has done crazy well and we can all pretty much agree deserves to be there so you can look at a guy who might be good enough to crack a checking line, maybe? I don’t see this happening and don’t think it should.
Why wouldn't you play Perreault? He's a really talented young player.
“crazy well”
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I’d say MP has done about as well as he could in preseason. Have we heard much about Gordon?
Why wouldn't you play Perreault? He's a really talented young player.
AG had 2 goals in the scrimmages.
3C is getting all the attention, so of course he’s going to get more press.
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No, because people don’t care as much about a guy battling for a rotating 4th line spot as they do for a guy who could fill a role the Caps need filled. He’s done well, though – I’ve heard only good things. Let’s see what he does on a bigger stage.
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Giving a guy a look in the regular season and sitting a better player to get him in the lineup are not one and the same, in principle.
In this case, Perreault compared with Gordon, yes. If Gordon helps you at the NHL level, you know that and it’s good you still have him. If he can’t, you demote him and/or lose him on waivers. It’s potential upside with no downside.
The guys we’re talking about are the first few injury callups. That being said, Gordon will certainly be lost to waivers, so I think he should get his “look” earlier in the season.
by red army line on Sep 23, 2010 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions
There’s no reasoning with a man in love.
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I’m complaining because the waiver risk is a real one, and he’s an asset.
But I’m also complaining because keeping him if he’s not ready sucks, too. In fact, it sucks more. Keeping Sloan as a borderline-NHL-ready 8th defenseman last season sucked just as much.
You had me at no problem.
Its still a question of how important it is to maintain the depth. Is the difference in quality of player more than marginal? If not, is a marginal increase in the quality of the NHL roster (for a team that shouldn’t have trouble winning in the regular season) worth a decrease in the available depth?
How big a gap in ability do you need to see to justify losing depth? This is the type of stuff they have to weigh during camp and preseason, and this is probably what will ultimately decide everyone’s fate. Sending MoJo back to the SEL to keep Perreault in the NHL is a loss of depth. Worth it? Losing Gordon on waivers to give a spot to Beagle or MoJo is a loss of depth. Worth it?
Not saying the answer is no in either case, but the best 23 players doesn’t automatically mean the best end result for the team. Depth can play a huge role as the season progresses even if they’re taking a hit on a game to game basis in terms of roster quality. Big balancing act there.
Well, my comments are in the context of all 4 players playing well throughout camp/preseason. If the player makes the decision for the team, then it’s simple.
If I didn’t say so in my earlier posts and as some people are discussing, if Johansson agrees to start the season in Hershey and management/coaches believe that would be best for his transition to NA pro hockey, then that would be great and would also give Perreault (in context, see Becca’s earlier posts still plenty of preseason to go) an opportunity to show if he can maintain a level of play at the NHL level.
The problem is, you’re using a very limited definition of “best” players.
Let’s imagine this very possible hypothetical situation:
Mackan looks good, but not great, and looks like he needs more time in NA to get seasoned. However, he’s clearly got the potential to be a #3C if not a #2C by the end of the year. Unfortunately, if he doesn’t make the team out of camp, he’s headed back to Sweden and we get bupkis, even at the end of the year.
MP looks great, like a bona-fide #3C.
Gordo looks great as a potential #4W/PK specialist/extra winger. He looks like the first guy the Caps would want to come in, should one of the regulars get injured.
Who are the “best” players in that scenario? Mackan has more talent, but he’s less developed and not accustomed to the NA game. He’s also unsuited for playing on the 4th line. MP is more talented than Gordo, and more developed than Mackan, but he’s pretty much limited to one role and one role only: #3C. Gordo is ready to play in the NHL as a #3/4W and a PK specialist – he’s like a talented Laing. Plus, if you cut him, you might never get him back, thereby losing the guy you envisioned filling in if you had any injuries on the wing.
'Cause the end of what it was is what it is right now...
Keep in mind that the 2 that make the team out of this list will not be playing on a consistent basis. It depends on how they plan to use DJ King. If King, does not play a regular shift Bruce will not be playing him every night. Whats the status on Laing? Did he ever sign on with anybody?
In Soviet Russia you don't score goal, goal score you.
Am I the only one who is ok with Mackan in Sweden for another season? Is his development in Hershey that accelerated from his development in the SEL?
"Have you ever played?" "Yes, I was a goalie"
Yes, simply for the fact that it’s North American hockey.
by DrinkingPartner on Sep 22, 2010 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Yup. The SEL is definitely a better league in terms of his competition, but it’s another year on a non-NA rink and all that entails. The sooner we get him over here, whether it’s in Hershey or DC, the better for his overall development as an NHLer.
If anyone needs me, I'll be at Kettler.
The SEL is definitely a better league in terms of his competition
Is it? I always had the impression that they were probably equal skill-wise (despite some big names playing in Sweden) and that the AHL was a good bit faster than the SEL.
by DrinkingPartner on Sep 22, 2010 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions
I wouldn’t say better.. I would say different.
Why wouldn't you play Perreault? He's a really talented young player.
He’d become a better defensive player and be a top-line center in the SEL rather than in limbo between 2/3C in Hershey, at least.
by red army line on Sep 23, 2010 1:56 PM EDT up reply actions
The SEL is definitely a better league in terms of his competition
Um, no.
'Cause the end of what it was is what it is right now...
by D'ohboy on Sep 22, 2010 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
You don’t think playing against full-grown men is tougher than a league filled with prospects and also-rans? At worst they’re even, but I’m not sure I’d go that far.
If anyone needs me, I'll be at Kettler.
Last I checked, the guys in the AHL are full-grown men. The young ’uns are in juniors and college.
The SEL isn’t necessarily the second-best European league as some rank it behind the SM-Liiga.
I think most people believe that the KHL and AHL are pretty similar in terms of competition, with the KHL getting the nod in terms of top-end talent, but the AHL having better depth and being more physically demanding.
'Cause the end of what it was is what it is right now...
The SEL isn’t necessarily the second-best European league as some rank it behind the SM-Liiga.
Do you have a link for that? I’d be intreated to read their reasoning.
Pft why play a small French guy when you have a Svensk viking.
Tack. I don’t buy that list at all though. What a few clubs do in a handful of games against teams from other leagues says very little about which league is the strongest. Especially when not all teams play with the best players in those games.
Pft why play a small French guy when you have a Svensk viking.
I would like to add that in Hershey he is pretty much guaranteed top minutes in Sweden not so much.
Pft why play a small French guy when you have a Svensk viking.
Is this because teams have moved on, or because they simply don’t play young players that much (as in the KHL, I think)? Finishing the season as a 1/2C I would have thought he would get top minutes in the SEL.
by red army line on Sep 23, 2010 1:57 PM EDT up reply actions
It’s also the most physical league available to him (even moreso than the NHL).
Double-edged sword there, he can learn the game but also probably a bigger injury risk and for a guy with a concussion history…
Like with Backstrom, I don’t think they chance sending him to Hershey. I think he’s going to learn NA hockey in the big leagues.
by DrinkingPartner on Sep 22, 2010 4:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Johansson is a much different animal from Backstrom. There’s a chance that the team might want him there on a short term basis. Whether he ever goes is, of course, another matter entirely.
They’re similar players, though, stylistically. Backs as a 20 year old wouldn’t have fared especially well in HER physically, IMO, just because of that. There’s very little calm, contemplative hockey in the A, which is what he and Mackan seem to play.
by DrinkingPartner on Sep 22, 2010 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions
And yet MP excelled in that environment. What an impressive player!
Why wouldn't you play Perreault? He's a really talented young player.
He’ll be an impressive player next year too! Or on injury recall! Yay waiver exception!
I have a twitter.
Not another Capitals blog!
"Victory is sweetest when you've known defeat"
Again, I don’t give a shit. I believe he will clear waivers and that the team should put the best team on the ice for once.
Why wouldn't you play Perreault? He's a really talented young player.
And a large amount of us believe he won’t. There is no risk to claiming him.
I have a twitter.
Not another Capitals blog!
"Victory is sweetest when you've known defeat"
the team should put the best team on the ice for once.
They will. In April.
If anyone needs me, I'll be at Kettler.
Jesus F. Christ.
If anyone needs me, I'll be at Kettler.
by Becca H on Sep 22, 2010 4:28 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
The goal is to put the best team on the ice. But at this point, we don’t know what that is. You take a guy out of contention, you hurt your odds for doing that because any configuration that had him as part of it is now out of the picture.
Like I think it was JP who said somewhere above…it isn’t about just playing the top 23 guys for this year…you have to look at future years and if playing the top 23 guys opening night means losing the 24th best guy that seems silly when there are ways around it that do not hurt the team much at all.
Everything ends badly...otherwise it wouldn't end.
by Davethecapsfan on Sep 22, 2010 4:30 PM EDT up reply actions
The dream scenario would be MP or Mackan impressing hugely for the rest of preseason, Flash getting dealt for a 5/6D, and MP, Mackan, and A Gordon all making the team with Eric Belanger trying to make those fake teeth shine big when he fake smiles about his 750k contract.
Everything ends badly...otherwise it wouldn't end.
Thankfully, Flash won’t go so cheap, unless there’s picks involved.
by DrinkingPartner on Sep 22, 2010 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Obviously that’s just the main piece I’d want in the deal right now along with picks or hell another prospect.
Everything ends badly...otherwise it wouldn't end.
by Davethecapsfan on Sep 22, 2010 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Any chance Mackan, A. Gordon and MP all beat out Flash for 2nd, 3rd and 4th line center?
"Have you ever played?" "Yes, I was a goalie"
A. Gordon’s not a C, and even if he was, hell no.
by DrinkingPartner on Sep 22, 2010 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions
I got a good chuckle out of it.
Why wouldn't you play Perreault? He's a really talented young player.
Same, but I’d still want something in return for Flash. He has value however much some people think he isn’t essential to us winning in the playoffs.
Everything ends badly...otherwise it wouldn't end.
by Davethecapsfan on Sep 22, 2010 4:23 PM EDT up reply actions
I know, but the “hell, no” is an unfotunate reminder of BB’s own man-love. :-P
by DrinkingPartner on Sep 22, 2010 4:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Not every player is an early round pick and jumps right to the NHL. (Hello, see Matt Bradley as Exhibit A.)
IMO, Andrew Gordon has earned an opportunity with his play on the ice and with his development in his time with the organization. I’m disappointed he wasn’t given more of an opportunity while he was still waiver exempt, but that time has passed.
If he flops in the preseason that’s one thing, but I don’t expect that to happen.
I’m super tired of bitching about it now. Let’s just let the players decide for themselves.
Oh wait, waivers lol.
Why wouldn't you play Perreault? He's a really talented young player.
making me bang my head against the desk. #23 or #24 best player taking up that 23rd spot isn’t going to make or break the regular season. Why not find a way to not lose #24 even if it means putting him on the roster.
Everything ends badly...otherwise it wouldn't end.
by Davethecapsfan on Sep 22, 2010 4:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Who is your 24?
I have a twitter.
Not another Capitals blog!
"Victory is sweetest when you've known defeat"
I don’t know everything and don’t keep a depth chart. Seeing as how we have a thousand wingers, it would probably be a guy that is center-capable.
Why wouldn't you play Perreault? He's a really talented young player.
We could have Mike Green fill a center role for a little bit and have both Erskine and Sloan playing.
Everything ends badly...otherwise it wouldn't end.
by Davethecapsfan on Sep 22, 2010 4:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes it does…but really even if we’re talking anywhere between #22 and #26 at this point it’s silly to lose whoevs for nothing. We’re not a team scraping for every point. We’re going to win games regardless.
Everything ends badly...otherwise it wouldn't end.
by Davethecapsfan on Sep 22, 2010 4:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Bah, first reply fail of the day. Anyway, to continue the discussion, I for one was not a fan of the Bradley 3 year contract (esp. at the cap hit it was at) and felt even then that in year 3 it would block Gordon from an NHL roster slot even if he had earned the opportunity.
But since the Bradley comparison was made in another post, I thought it worth bringing up Bradley’s early pro experience and the fact that he played 2 full seasons in the AHL before playing in an NHL game. (and yes, I know there was an age difference due to the CHL vs NCA route the players took.)
There is an option that hasn’t been mentioned here today that was brought up a while back – I believe by D’ohboy, although I could be wrong on that. B. Gordon could be put in as 3C for at least a while, and A. Gordon could take his 4th line spot. If A. Gordon doesn’t work out in the first month or so, send him to Hershey. And yes, I know he might be claimed, but this would be after he was given a shot. I would love to see MP and Mackan up here, but not at the expense of losing a prospect for nothing when he hasn’t even been given a real shot.
Never underrate the power of the hissy-cow.
Yeah, that was me. So we’d roll with:
8-19-22
28-14-21
16-15/90-25
King/Gordo/39/10
Or something like that.
'Cause the end of what it was is what it is right now...
DJ King created this whole mess.
Why wouldn't you play Perreault? He's a really talented young player.
I WANT SDR BACK sobs
I have a twitter.
Not another Capitals blog!
"Victory is sweetest when you've known defeat"
That sounds like what I remember. B. Gordon (is there an easier way to specify one of them?) has enough offensive ability to probably work as 3C between Fehr and Chimera. It would be a line most players wouldn’t want to face too much.
Never underrate the power of the hissy-cow.
Then when BGord’s back eventually goes out, you call up MP.
'Cause the end of what it was is what it is right now...
I’d like to see an open competition, and whoever plays better in training camp makes the team. If Mackan can’t outplay both MP and Andrew Gordon then yes, I think he shouldn’t make the NHL team even if that means he spends the season in Sweden. If the two centers are better than Andrew Gordon, then you waive him and take that risk. And likewise, if MP is the worst of the three, down to Hershey he goes.
I wouldn’t make this decision out of fear. I think it sends the right signal about accountability and effort to reward the guys who play the best right now.
Atta dinnin stick a who!
Well...
It looks like Matt Hendricks made an undeniable push tonight… a hat-trick in the preseason game…
Washington Capitals 2009-10 = Quebec Nordiques 1994-95
--- D'ohboy
I’d say so. So, is it time for the Hendricks for 2nd center lobby to speak up?
Rocking the Red since 1975
Can we quit it with the lobby crap already? It was funny for about 5 mins.
'Cause the end of what it was is what it is right now...
by D'ohboy on Sep 23, 2010 8:28 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
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