A Tale of Two Mountains
by J.P. on Aug 12, 2010 9:29 AM EDT
Email
Print
If you're an avid Puck Daddy reader (and who isn't?), you've no doubt been enjoying their late-summer "Mt. Puckmore" series, a team-by-team look at the faces that have made the National Hockey League's member franchises what they are today. And if you've been lamenting the fact that you were going to have to wait for weeks to see your favorite team's entry simply because of the cruelty of the alphabet, you're in luck - Puck Daddy isn't beholden to such conventions, and today's the day that Mt. Capsmore (written by yours truly) runs. Naturally, we'd love to hear your thoughts on our selections - feel free to agree or disagree in the comments here or, if you're so inclined, over there.
But given that without hate there is no love, without evil there is no good, etc., we thought it would be valuable to rip off Battle of California take a look at four former Caps who represent low points in the team history, the men whose faces are carved into local hockey's Mt. Suckmore.
As with Mt. Capsmore, we're going to stick to players only (that sigh of relief you just heard was Bruce Cassidy's), and take 'em chronologically. So without further ado...
It's not that Joly was a terrible hockey player or that he was particularly responsible for what was the worst team in NHL history. But for Joly, expectations were decidedly higher. We'll let hockey historian Joe Pelletier set the mood:
It was the early 1970s. Bobby Orr had transformed the game. The best hockey player in the world was a defenseman and every team wanted the next Bobby Orr.
The Washington Capitals, with their very first draft pick in franchise history, thought they had landed him with the 1st overall pick in the 1974 NHL Amateur draft.
They were wrong.
Sure, that draft only produced two Hall of Famers (Joly's junior teammate Clark Gillies and Bryan Trottier) and a handful of All-Stars, but after just two seasons and change (and a minus-114 rating in just 98 games), Joly was already sent packing, traded to Detroit for Bryan Watson. Indeed, from 1968 through 2005, the only skater selected number one overall who played fewer games in the League than Joly was Gord Kluzak (whose career was derailed by injury, not ineptitude).
The Caps' early struggles are well-documented, and they certainly did Joly no favors by rushing him to the NHL. But those first few years might have been a bit less painful with a better first pick.
Taken fourth overall in a weak 1996 Draft, Volchkov has the distinction of playing in the fewest NHL games (three) of any skater taken in the top five between 1969 and 2006. Stories about his poor attitude range from insisting on being called "Volch-inator" to walking out on his AHL teammates during a playoff game... and no doubt beyond. David Poile didn't make a ton of mistakes during his time in Washington, but this was one of them, as questions surrounding Volchkov's mental make-up were being asked long before he was drafted. Luckily for Poile (and Predators fans), he learned his lesson about drafting Russians in the first round.
On March 9, 1998, Caps rookie GM George McPhee sent Dwayne Hay and future considerations to Florida for Tikkanen, a five-time Stanley Cup winner. Tik potted a couple of goals and added ten assists in the final 20 games of the regular season, and he lit the lamp three times during the Caps playoff run that spring.
But with the Caps down a game but up a goal late in the third period of Game 2 of the Finals in Detroit, this happened:
Some kind of veteran play, eh?
Tikkanen's miss allowed the Red Wings to become the first team in 42 years to win a Stanley Cup Finals game it trailed by two goals entering the third period, and to send the series back to Washington up two-games-to-none rather than tied at one apiece. That, as they say, was that.
And lest you think we're being overly harsh on Tikkanen for one play, recall that in Game 2 of the Eastern Conference Finals, "he inadvertently scored the tying goal for the Sabres with 57 seconds remaining, [but] Todd Krygier made the mistake an afterthought with his winner in overtime."
Had Tik buried the empty netter in Game 2 in Detroit, the Caps still would have had a tough time winning three-of-five from that Red Wings team. But with momentum, home ice, and Olie Kolzig, who knows? As Mark Tinordi succinctly put it, "We were all standing on the bench and saw the open net and were about to explode. But then he missed it.''
Indeed.
It started out as pure joy.
On July 11, 2001, the Caps acquired the reigning Art Ross Trophy winner for three mediocre prospects (none of whom turned into much of anything); the best player in the National Hockey League was a Washington Capital. Certainly Jagr joining Peter Bondra, Adam Oates, Sergei Gonchar, Kolzig, et. al. would vault a Caps team that finished 13th in both goals for and against and had 96 points the previous season into the upper echelon of Cup contenders, right? Wrong.
Not only did Jagr's points-per-game fall off the table in D.C. (from 1.49 to 1.14, the lowest since his second season in the League), but the Caps failed to make the playoffs. Even worse, of course, early in that ill-fated season, the Caps had extended J.J. with the largest contract in League history to date: $77 million over seven years (with an option for an eighth year). Hey, at least ownership was willing to open up the checkbook for a marquee player, unlike the prior regime.
The Caps spent the next season coddling their superstar (bringing in his pals Robert Lang and Kip Miller, as well as enabling bench boss Cassidy), and made the playoffs, only to be ousted by the Lighting in the first round - Jagr's opportunity to resurrect his career in Washington in a show of redemptive glory somewhat ironically lost on Easter Sunday. Before long, the team was openly shopping Number 68 and his enormous contract, finally sending Jagr - and truckloads of cash - to the Rangers for Anson Carter in January of 2004 as an early step in the rebuild.
The Jagr Era wasn't without it's high points - a seven-point game against Florida and a four-point playoff game against the Bolts come to mind. But an acquisition that should have ushered in the golden silver age of Caps hockey instead brought about a complete dismantling of the team, sparing few.
Then again, even this dark cloud has a silver lining: without Jaromir Jagr playing the way he did, this would never have been possible.
159 comments
|
3 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
Title sounds like the name of an adult movie
Money don't make my world go round...i'm reaching out to a higher ground
Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Aug 12, 2010 9:32 AM EDT reply actions 2 recs
But seriously, I can’t argue with any of the selections on Mount Capsmore.
Money don't make my world go round...i'm reaching out to a higher ground
Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Aug 12, 2010 9:35 AM EDT reply actions
In hindisght, the Joly pick was a disaster but at the time you would have been hard-pressed to find any scout in the NHL who didn’t believe Joly was the next great defenseman. If Milt Schmidt didn’t pick him first, he’d have been ripped to shreds from one end of Canada to the next.
Not according to Pelletier:
The Washington Capitals, with their very first draft pick in franchise history, thought they had landed him with the 1st overall pick in the 1974 NHL Amateur draft. They were so sure they even went “off the board” to get him.
…
Despite the strong finish to the season, Joly was not a clear cut top choice by any means. The Hockey News had him rated #7.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
Who did THN have ranked 1?
Money don't make my world go round...i'm reaching out to a higher ground
Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Aug 12, 2010 9:39 AM EDT up reply actions
Of the Brandon, Manitoba Chipperfields?
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
90 goals in his last junior season. What, was he shooting against air?
If you've read this far...seek help.
by ThePeerless on Aug 12, 2010 10:41 AM EDT up reply actions
Bobby Smith dropped 69/123/192 for Ottawa in 1976-77 (in 61 games, record for assists and points). Gretzky had the OHL goals mark with 70, but Tavares beat that with 72 in 2006-07 (72/62/134 in 67 games at the age of 16)
Money don't make my world go round...i'm reaching out to a higher ground
Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Aug 12, 2010 10:48 AM EDT up reply actions
Other fun Junior numbers:
Ray Ferraro had 108 goals for Brandon in 1983-84 (he had 15 hat tricks)
Rob Brown dropped 76/136/212 for Kamloops in 1986-87, and he also had a season in the Alberta Midget league where he put up 137/122/259…with 200 PIMs.
Mario dropped 133/149/282 for Laval in 1983
Lafleur had a 130/79/209 season in 1970-71
Pierre Larouche had 94/157/251 for Sorel in 1973-74
Pat Lafontaine had 104/130/234 for Verdun in 1982-83 (with 10 PIMs)
Money don't make my world go round...i'm reaching out to a higher ground
Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Aug 12, 2010 10:56 AM EDT up reply actions
Another fun set of numbers, though not from juniors, comes from Deron Quint who, in his sophomore year in high school, scored 111 goals and 58 assists in 21 games.
The NCAA records aren’t really that impressive. Mike Donnelly has the goal scoring record at 59 for Michigan State in 1986, most assists Wayne Gagne for Western Michigan with 76 in 1987 (Paul Kariya is 2 with 75 for Maine in 1993), and points is Tony Hrkac for North Dakota with 116 in 1987
Money don't make my world go round...i'm reaching out to a higher ground
Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Aug 12, 2010 11:07 AM EDT up reply actions
Those 59 goals for Donnelly came in only 44 games.
If you've read this far...seek help.
by ThePeerless on Aug 12, 2010 11:18 AM EDT up reply actions
Did they? I’m not sure how many games they play there in relation to the Major Junior leagues.
Money don't make my world go round...i'm reaching out to a higher ground
Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Aug 12, 2010 11:19 AM EDT up reply actions
Guess they weren’t as good at picking winners either…
Washington Capitals 2009-10 = Quebec Nordiques 1994-95
--- D'ohboy
by MikeL-Pivonka on Aug 12, 2010 11:02 AM EDT up reply actions
Since you asked, I reached out to my fellow JP (Joe Pelletier) and he responded with this:
#1 Ron Chipperfield (went #17)
#2 Bill Lochead (went #9)
#3 Bruce Affleck (went 21st)
#4 Clarke Gillies (went #4)
#5 Rich Chartraw (went #10)
#6 Danny Gare (went #29)
THN’s ranking really went out of whack compared to the actual draft order, though that is not necessarily a surprise. It has to be noted, though, that THN did two seperate rankings – one for overall ranking, and one for underaged players. Due to the WHA raiding of Canadian junior leagues, the NHL was allowing each team to select one 18 or 19 year old player. Remember back then the draft was for 20 year old players!
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
My memory may be fading, but that’s not the way I remember it. Of course, it could have been the way the Caps presented it at the time, but I just seem to recall that Joly was considered a great, can’t-miss talent.
Never get tired of that story of how they screwed over the Whalers to pick him
Money don't make my world go round...i'm reaching out to a higher ground
Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Aug 12, 2010 9:57 AM EDT up reply actions
Then again, the Whalers ended up taking some guy named Ron Francis
/facepalm
Money don't make my world go round...i'm reaching out to a higher ground
Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Aug 12, 2010 9:58 AM EDT up reply actions
Whoops…
Washington Capitals 2009-10 = Quebec Nordiques 1994-95
--- D'ohboy
by MikeL-Pivonka on Aug 12, 2010 11:03 AM EDT up reply actions
As I recall it, the Whalers were so desperate to get Carpenter that they hired his dad to some sort of post in their organization. The Caps made a deal to get the pick ahead of them, and drafted Carpenter.
Money don't make my world go round...i'm reaching out to a higher ground
Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Aug 12, 2010 11:51 AM EDT up reply actions
To the Hartford Whalers, it was a sucker punch that sent Carpenter to Washington in the first place. On the morning of the draft, everyone knew the scenario. Hartford, picking fourth, had a lock on Carpenter. The first three selectors—Winnipeg, Los Angeles and Colorado—were set on Canadian juniors. Washington wanted Carpenter but had the No. 5 pick. Bob Carpenter Sr. sat at a table with the Hartford contingent. He was excited because it looked as if his son would be playing close to home. The Whalers had even talked to Bob Sr., a sergeant on the Peabody (Mass.) police force, about making him a team scout. (He’s now doing some scouting for the Caps in New England.)
But 15 minutes before the draft began, McNab and Colorado General Manager Billy MacMillan quietly struck a deal. The Rockies, who didn’t have a second-round pick, gave Washington their first-and third-round choices in exchange for the Caps’ first-and second-round picks. Winnipeg and L.A. selected. Then—bang!—Colorado announced the switch and McNab had Carpenter.
The Hartford people were stunned. Bob Sr. stormed off, brushing aside a Washington reporter by saying he wanted nothing to do with anybody from that city. “He was just shocked for the moment,” says Bobby. “All of his plans fell apart so fast. As for me, I didn’t care. I was happy. I thought that if the Capitals wanted me that badly, they must want me to play right away.”
Money don't make my world go round...i'm reaching out to a higher ground
Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Aug 12, 2010 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions
Colorado selected Joe Cirella with the 5th pick, and with our pick in the 2nd, they took Rick Chernomaz. With Colorado’s pick in the third, the Caps took Eric Calder (and missed by two picks on the immortal Barry Tabobondung)
Money don't make my world go round...i'm reaching out to a higher ground
Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Aug 12, 2010 11:59 AM EDT up reply actions
Thanks. Interesting story. Bobby Carpenter wasn’t a horrible pick, but of course Ronnie Francis would have been better.
Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?
Wow…Barry Tabobondung has a really interesting story
Barry Tabobondung died in a vehicular accident at age 39 in his native Wasausking First Nation neighborhood, July 11, 2000. The accident happened when Tabobondung and his 8-year-old son, Thomas, were riding in the cab of a road grater in which Tabobondung was working. The young boy fell out of the vehicle, and Barry jumped out of the cab to try to save his son from being run over. Both father and son became caught under the road grater’s rear tires. Barry Tabobondung was taken to the West Parry Sound Health Centre, where he was pronounced dead. His death wasn’t in vain. Police on the scene confirmed that Barry’s death was not in vein stating there was no doubt Barry had managed to save his son’s life. Thomas suffered a broken leg.
What a hero.
Money don't make my world go round...i'm reaching out to a higher ground
Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Aug 12, 2010 12:08 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Carpenter didn’t miss… the guy did score 50 goals one season and played pretty well… but it got to the point where he thought he was better than he was. Still the result with the Caps turned out ok in that they sent him of to the Rangers for Miller and Ridley. A nice pick up for the Caps.
The Rangers come to town a few weeks later, everyone boos whenever Carpenter touches the puck of course. After the game, he tells the media he didn’t like the booing and was glad that the Rangers didn’t have to come here again. At the trading deadline, the Rangers send Bobby to the LA Kings… who have a game a week aftere that at the Cap Centre…. poor guy.
And not so poor, he did win a Stanley Cup with New Jersey….
Washington Capitals 2009-10 = Quebec Nordiques 1994-95
--- D'ohboy
by MikeL-Pivonka on Aug 12, 2010 11:06 AM EDT up reply actions
not before returning to Washington in 1992
If you've read this far...seek help.
by ThePeerless on Aug 12, 2010 11:19 AM EDT up reply actions
True enough… he was on the 1995 Devils when they won the Cup
Washington Capitals 2009-10 = Quebec Nordiques 1994-95
--- D'ohboy
by MikeL-Pivonka on Aug 12, 2010 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions
It took three PD comments to get to “dale hunter was a piece of human excrement who played dirty as hell.” Surprised it took that long.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
Great stuff on that BTW, love the closing.
It takes...something? Anything?!?
by Bald Pollack on Aug 12, 2010 9:45 AM EDT up reply actions
I agree. Maybe I’m a little biased, but yours is the best Mt. Puckmore to date.
A Capital Wasteland - art & hockey from Washington, D.C.
by Jake Shapiro on Aug 12, 2010 9:46 AM EDT up reply actions
Thanks, all.
I guess the big debate point would be leaving Bondra off. I pretty much felt that before there was Bondra, there was Gartner. Bondra trumps Garts, sure, but I think Ovie trumps Bondra. That and I didn’t want two guys with such overlap (he and Kolzig) from an era in which they didn’t win anything.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
This definitely relates to the “should 37 and/or 12 be retired” debate.
A Capital Wasteland - art & hockey from Washington, D.C.
by Jake Shapiro on Aug 12, 2010 9:55 AM EDT up reply actions
I agree (and am on record as saying yes to 37, no to 12, but am also hugely in favor of “honored” numbers).
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
Is it a Vezina vs. Scoring title debate at that point? Why 37 but not 12?
Why wouldn't you play Perreault? He's a really talented young player.
I think the rarity of 300+ wins with one team (as well as the other things I noted in my Mt. Capsmore blurb) makes 37 retire-able.
I think Bondra was great, but I think that Ovi will surpass his numbers by a pretty wide margin (and, fwiw, I wouldn’t have retired 11, since I think 12 > 11, and not just numerically) and I find it tough to justify retiring two numbers from an era that didn’t produce a championship. Gretz and Mess? Sure, retire ‘em both. Kolzig and Bondra? I can’t get fully on board with that.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
Now that Ted owns the VC, I wonder if there is a way to do a “ring of honor” with one side for Caps and the other for the Wiz? Or maybe they just hang a banner and add names & numbers to it that don’t get retired?
Because now I can justify browsing and commenting during the work day with the argument that I am promoting my business.
by Sombrero Guy on Aug 12, 2010 10:37 AM EDT up reply actions
I dunno, I really can’t make an argument against any of the four you picked. Ovie is the face of the current franchise. Bonzai will just have to be content as the Andrew Jackson or something of the Caps.
"Yes, but Rimmer Directive 271 states just as clearly, 'No chance you metal ba****d.'"
The thing I liked about the picks I made is that it spans the entire history of the era of decent Caps hockey, starting with Langway’s arrival. Langway played with Hunter, Hunter played with Kolzig, Kolzig played with Ovechkin. At least one of the guys on our Mt. Capsmore was on every “relevant” Caps team and you’d probably have a hard time finding an important game in team history that at least one of those guys didn’t play in.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
Good job J.P.
A clear conscience is usually the sign of a bad memory
by Rather Bengt on Aug 12, 2010 10:12 AM EDT up reply actions
Really nice work—the choices were spot on.
Were there a fifth head on Capsmore, may I ask which player you would have put?
"Those things happen in sport," McPhee said. "It's not like it's anything chronic."
by bigonetimer on Aug 12, 2010 10:39 AM EDT up reply actions
Has to be Bondra, Gartner, or Labre. Probably Bondra.
A Capital Wasteland - art & hockey from Washington, D.C.
by Jake Shapiro on Aug 12, 2010 11:20 AM EDT up reply actions
I guess Maruk didn’t play here long enough to get much play in these discussions..
Why wouldn't you play Perreault? He's a really talented young player.
Yup. Too short a window.
Gotta be Bondra.
"You ever use smelling salts, every time you type a bad blog?" Brooks Laich
by Carl Putnam on Aug 12, 2010 11:23 AM EDT up reply actions
I had Bondra 5th and then Gartner, Calle Johansson, Kelly Miller, probably.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
No Labre Lovin’?
A Capital Wasteland - art & hockey from Washington, D.C.
by Jake Shapiro on Aug 12, 2010 11:31 AM EDT up reply actions
What about Labre’s moustache?
Money don't make my world go round...i'm reaching out to a higher ground
Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Aug 12, 2010 11:32 AM EDT up reply actions
Did it front a band?
It takes...something? Anything?!?
by Bald Pollack on Aug 12, 2010 12:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Only the Harold Snepsts All Stars
Money don't make my world go round...i'm reaching out to a higher ground
Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Aug 12, 2010 12:10 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m hearing that I should consider Yvon Labre in that second grouping as well.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
I was just curious as to why some of those guys listed above ahead of Labre. Teams too bad/not good enough numbers?
IMO, labre was neither a great player nor a face of the franchise at any critical time or during any period of success. he was fan favorite as someone who gave his all and got the most of limited talent. he also was the last of the original caps. he’s number hangs mostly due to sentimental value and the fact that the old rafters looked a bit bare back in the day (the days before mystics attendance banners, that is). i’m guessing that if they had a do-over, number 7 would not be up there.
bondra, garts, calle jo, scott stevens???
Just trying to capture the spirit of the thing...
by dcsportsfan1 on Aug 12, 2010 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions
They should have never replaced the old banners with the new ones.
Money don't make my world go round...i'm reaching out to a higher ground
Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Aug 12, 2010 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions
you only say that because the new one’s dont show ol’ number seven’s cookie duster
Just trying to capture the spirit of the thing...
by dcsportsfan1 on Aug 12, 2010 12:14 PM EDT up reply actions
No no…the old OLD ones…before the awful ones with the pictures.
Money don't make my world go round...i'm reaching out to a higher ground
Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Aug 12, 2010 12:18 PM EDT up reply actions
I was just interested what everyone’s take on him was. I can’t speak for how he played, because that was before my time. I do have to say, he did a lot in the community as far as growing hockey in the area. Labre was the reason that I started playing goalie. One day my mom was at Piney Orchard and the Caps’ hockey school session was about to start after my mother’s skating lesson. He was in conversation with my Mom and mentioned that he didn’t know who he was going to pick to play goalie. My mom offered for me to play, and I got to play for a few days and only had to pay for the jersey that I’d get to keep (which was 15 dollars). Needless to say, I think pretty highly of him.
oh yeah. yvon’s on the caps mt. puckmore of good guys in the community…
Just trying to capture the spirit of the thing...
by dcsportsfan1 on Aug 12, 2010 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions
he always seems so happy at any event I’ve been to. He loves hockey, he loves the Caps, he loves the fans, he just loves to share that passion with everyone, even today.
Watching the O’s try to use strategy is like watching Mike Green trying to figure out the difference between "your" and "you’re"--Terpgrrl
Donation info for SAVES FOR KIDS 2010!! Make a difference.
They did win a conference championship and Olie won the Vezina once. Bonzai would have won the Richard Trophy twice in his career had it been around…
Washington Capitals 2009-10 = Quebec Nordiques 1994-95
--- D'ohboy
by MikeL-Pivonka on Aug 12, 2010 11:07 AM EDT up reply actions
I’m on board with AO over Bonzai (and Bondra over Garts, for that matter).
Bondra was an exciting player and the only real scoring threat for a few years, but other than the Cup run (which was more a factor of some tremendous breaks in matchups than the Caps being a great team) and a couple of very good seasons, what does he have on his resume? AO is better, more exciting, and, as you noted, represents oodles more in terms of hope.
Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?
And it only took 9 comments for the “bandwagon” stuff
I wonder how many Capital fans will see this and have no idea who 3 of the 4 players are?
95% of the Caps fans today have no idea who the first two are and only a vague idea of the third.
Money don't make my world go round...i'm reaching out to a higher ground
Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Aug 12, 2010 9:56 AM EDT up reply actions
JP, you’re a crazy jerk for leaving Joel Kwiatkowski off the monument. You must not have watched the Caps at all during the years I have blacked out because he was clearly their most likely to be a KHL All Star. I don’t know where the team would be today without him. Meanwhile Dale Hunter clearly does not belong because he hasn’t done enough yet. Maybe you should go back and learn something about the Washington Capitals before you start posting on Puck Daddy.
/thanks G.O.D.
↑ ↑ ↓ ↓ ← → ← → b a (select) start
by renstar on Aug 12, 2010 9:55 AM EDT reply actions 3 recs
Gallof really is a master at that sort of thing.
If you've read this far...seek help.
by ThePeerless on Aug 12, 2010 10:32 AM EDT up reply actions
Gotta love Langway’s hair in this…
Washington Capitals 2009-10 = Quebec Nordiques 1994-95
--- D'ohboy
by MikeL-Pivonka on Aug 12, 2010 10:50 AM EDT up reply actions
i think a little harsh on tik. guy played for the team for less than 1/4 of a season and arguably helped the team make it as far as they have ever gone before or since.
how about a guy like bobby carpenter. had a bad attitude right from the start cause he wasnt picked by his home town bruins and then had to be sat down before being traded.
lots to choose from in addition to joly from the early years. mikkleson and his 82 +/; belhuemer and his 0 wins and +5 GAA.
Just trying to capture the spirit of the thing...
Fair point on Tik, of course, though one of the criteria here was “Does he make you say, man, fuck that guy?” He does.
As for Carp, tough to put the first 50-goal-scoring American on there.
As for Mikkleson and Belhuemer, neither had the expectations that were associated with Joly. Yes, they sucked hard. Harder, even. But Joly was the first pick in franchise history, #1 overall, and was a bust. Admittedly, he’s a symbolic pick as much as anything.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
LOL
I’m shocked Kolzig is there and Gartner is not. Is JP new to the Washington scene?
Money don't make my world go round...i'm reaching out to a higher ground
Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Aug 12, 2010 10:24 AM EDT up reply actions
It’s Puck Daddy. Every time I make the mistake of looking I feel like I’ve lost irreplaceable brain cells.
Hanlon's Razor: Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.
There are days I’d have to drink a fifth of scotch to kill as many brain cells as reading one page of PD comments could accomplish.
If you've read this far...seek help.
by ThePeerless on Aug 12, 2010 10:42 AM EDT up reply actions
Surprise of the day? Two Flyers fans praising the picks in PD’s comments.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
See my confession yesterday. Say what you will they at least know hockey.
"You ever use smelling salts, every time you type a bad blog?" Brooks Laich
by Carl Putnam on Aug 12, 2010 10:49 AM EDT up reply actions
That actually doesn’t surprise me all that much. As was mentioned yesterday, Flyers fans may be loud, obnoxious, and annoying, but they know their hockey.
Hanlon's Razor: Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.
If Dale Hunter had been a Flyer, he’d have a statue on top of City Hall
If you've read this far...seek help.
by ThePeerless on Aug 12, 2010 11:02 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Number of goalies with 300 wins: 24
Number to win 300 with one franchise: less (sorry… don’t have the number handy)
No way Kolzig’s not on that mountain.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
I think it’s 9. It was in the NHL.com story of 300 win goalies, I think.
Cидни Kросби: Александр Oвечкин, он твой папа теперь
матовая Клими, Михал нуивирт ваш папа теперь
Red Line Station: for Capitals fans who can bear reading something less intelligent than a story at Japers' Rink
Follow me on Twitter!
by red army line on Aug 13, 2010 3:05 AM EDT up reply actions
Tee hee
Every Mount Puckmore I have seen so far is revisionist history.
It seems as though every Mount Puckmore is being created by someone age 30 or under not familiar with the history of each respective organization.
Kolzig and Hunter as the face of the Caps franchise ?
Some very questionable choices in all the Mount Puckmores
Money don't make my world go round...i'm reaching out to a higher ground
Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Aug 12, 2010 11:18 AM EDT up reply actions
I resent that! I’m over 30!
And I’d respect the comment more if he provided his suggested replacements.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
Right, they never say WHY it’s wrong, only that it is.
Why wouldn't you play Perreault? He's a really talented young player.
On the internet, everyone has an opinion. A wrong one, of course. And you never need to explain it.
"It's always good to have vikings."
Proud member of the Oxford dictionary police.
Seriously. I can’t fathom a way for someone to argue those two weren’t the face(s) of the Capitals franchise for many years, respectively.
Maybe it’s because they just don’t like Hunter?
I’d get that gutless piece of [profane] Hunter off the list and add Bondra.
Hunter was and still is known league-wide as a cheap shot agitator to this day. 3000 PIMs? That’s great. That really helps your team when you’re short handed all that time. The Good Friday Brawl? That’s Hunter’s fault. A 21 game suspension because Hunter thought he was Tim [profane]ing McCracken once Pierre Turgeon iced the game for the Islanders.
Put him on Mount Puckmore and I bet he probably takes a blindside swing at it.
Money don't make my world go round...i'm reaching out to a higher ground
Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Aug 12, 2010 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions
I give him props for the Tim McCracken reference. I would have given him more props for a Sam “Small Print” Lyman reference.
Money don't make my world go round...i'm reaching out to a higher ground
Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Aug 12, 2010 11:46 AM EDT up reply actions
So, are Bobby Clarke and Gordie Howe out of the running, too? Eddie Shore? Maurice Richard? Owen Nolan and Scott Niedermayer both saw 10+ game suspensions at point in their careers, does that render them ineligible?
The idea is to pick guys who represent the Capitals, for better or worse, and, as J.P. said, Hunter was one of those guys.
Hunter was a major guy on the Caps when I started watching, and he is one of the first two I would name from that time if asked to – Bondra being the other. Hunter definitely deserved that spot – although the commenters on Puck Daddy calling him dirty weren’t too far off.
Never underrate the power of the hissy-cow.
if the criteria was “does he make you say, man, fuck that guy” then you are going to need a bigger mountain!
carp had a big year with us, but he definitely didnt fulfill expectations. partly due to bad attitude. as with jagr, a great player who fell way short of expectations.
totally agree w/ joly.
btw, mikkelson was -147 for his nhl career. a career that spanned 147 games…
Just trying to capture the spirit of the thing...
by dcsportsfan1 on Aug 12, 2010 10:26 AM EDT up reply actions
His (Mikkelson’s) kid plays for the Ducks, if I’m not mistaken.
Agree on Carp disappointing. Just didn’t make the cut for me. Had Tik missed the empty net in the regular season, he wouldn’t be here. But he missed it at just about the most critical moment in franchise history. Man, fuck that guy.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
I still remember curling into the fetal position with my face pushed into the basement carpet when he missed that one. Fuck that guy.
Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?
Carpenter was beyond disappointing. He was the anti-Ovie (or, the Jagr before there was Jagr). He had the one great season, but he burned away whatever good will he had by being a cancer and clashing with Brian Murray, which eventually forced his trade. So much hope for the franchise repaid with so much vitriol.
Tik shouldn’t be pillored as one of the four worst players in Capitals history for one bad play, no matter how bad it was. It’s like calling Bill Buckner the worst player in Red Sox history because of that one bad play. It’s going with your emotion rather than your head.
And while Volchkov did play in a Caps uniform, it was only for 3 games. He was a major bust of a draft pick, but he didn’t do as much damage to fan psyche as Carpenter.
In addition to Carp and Jagr, I’d suggest Bill Clement, who was brought in to be the captain but lasted only 46 games (and hating every minute of it) and Pat Riggin—a decent goalie who was universally hated by his teammates.
Just be happy the Rags thought Bobby C had another 50G season in him, so much so that we got Mike Ridley and Kelly Miller. Carps didn’t suck, he just read his own press clippings a little too closely.
"Those things happen in sport," McPhee said. "It's not like it's anything chronic."
by bigonetimer on Aug 12, 2010 10:37 AM EDT up reply actions
as my sig indicates, I’m a big fan of the Tik. Bitching about him missing that shot is like bitching about Jason Chimera missing one. We already knew he had hands of stone before that. It’s not what he was here for. And I firmly believe that without him, that team doesn’t make it as far as they did.
Joe Juneau made me pull my hair out much more than the Tik. And his missed penalty shot is far more inexcusable and was (for me) far more painful than this one shot. After all, Juenau was on the team for his offense. Those four overtime games are the two most painful moments of the Caps’ history, not the finals games.
But more than anything, I disagree with putting a guy on for mainly one play.
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Aug 12, 2010 11:36 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Juneau’s missed penalty shot was in a multiple overtime on slushy ice. You’d like to see him bury it, but kind of understand how what happened, happened.
Because now I can justify browsing and commenting during the work day with the argument that I am promoting my business.
by Sombrero Guy on Aug 12, 2010 12:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Count me among those who disagree with the Tik pick
Sure, it was a gut-shot to see him miss that open net, but I feel funny damning him to all-time Suckitude with that one screw up. Like Kelly Miller’s missed penalty shot against the Bruins, I have a feeling that it wouldn’t have made any difference in the outcome of the series.
The tricky thing with Suckitude is the time element—if I guy really sucks, then he won’t be around long enough to mean much—and then you’re left with mainly busted draft picks on your monument.
Since other teams have had coaches/builders on their Mt. Rushmore, why can’t we?
I nominate, in place of Tik:
Butch Cassidy. Terrible coach, hated by the veteran players, brought in a bunch of guys he had coached in the AHL who weren’t any good, sent the team into a tailspin that resulted in the fire sale and undid any chance of Jagr fitting in and feeling motivated to play in DC.
Thoughts?
by bilspacecadet on Aug 12, 2010 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Btw, Tik also gets on here in part because those sweaters Suckmore than any in team history.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
As a jersey enthusiast, I dagree. The ‘90s were the Dark Ages for uniforms but I like the blues; they had a color scheme we don’t see enough. The black Capitol dome jerseys, on the other hand… ugh.
A Capital Wasteland - art & hockey from Washington, D.C.
by Jake Shapiro on Aug 12, 2010 11:22 AM EDT up reply actions
Fair, though I far prefer the blues w/o the name diagonally across the bottom.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
Yep. A logo and a lettermark is redundant. Also, I just noticed I had a complete “disagree” spelling fail up there.
A Capital Wasteland - art & hockey from Washington, D.C.
by Jake Shapiro on Aug 12, 2010 11:30 AM EDT up reply actions
Mount Puckmore/Suckmore...
I agree with the picks for the Caps version of Mount Puckmore. If someone asked me to do it, three would be hands down easy (Ovechkin, Hunter and Langway) the tough choice would be Olie Kolzig or Peter Bondra…. but I think JP got it right with Olie. If there were 5 slots, then Bonzai gets the nod. There are only 4 slots on Mt. Puckmore, but six on the Caps all-time line up with forwards Bondra, Ovechkin and Hunter, defensemen Langway and Johansson and Kolzig in net….
As for Mount Suckmore….Greg Joly should have been better than he was, no question. His numbers and play in the juniors bore that out, but it goes to show that not everyone can make it despite what they do earlier on.
Tikkanen… gads that was harsh. I was screaming at the TV when he missed that shot… my neighbors must have thought I was possessed…but he was not the only reason the Caps lost that game or series. In that game, the Caps allowed Detroit to have 60 shots on goal. Yes, 60. You’re not going to win many games allowing 60 shots to guys like Yzerman, Fedorov, Shanahan, Listrom, Holmstrom, Murphy, Coffey….that it was a 1 goal game made it heartbreaking, but they were in it mostly because Olie was outstanding, and Osgood was pretty bad…
Volchkov… we all had high hopes for him when he was drafted….ugh. And Jagr… double urgh.
And yes, Cassidy is happy you were only picking players. Of course, Cassidy brought in his own Mt. Griffmore when he came to DC, bringing in Jason Doig, Joel Kwiatkowsk, Ivan Majesky, Kip Miller, Brian Willsie, and Ivan Ciernik to play for the Caps after they had spent a couple of years playing for Cassidy in Grand Rapids. Earth to Cassidy, there is a reason these guys played for you in Grand Rapids… they were and are minor leagueres…..
Grrrr…..
Washington Capitals 2009-10 = Quebec Nordiques 1994-95
--- D'ohboy
I might be the only person in Caps Nation who would not put Ovechkin on that mountain. Too early.
If you've read this far...seek help.
by ThePeerless on Aug 12, 2010 11:03 AM EDT up reply actions
I know its early, but he’s already the most accomplished Capitals player from a hardware perspective.
Because now I can justify browsing and commenting during the work day with the argument that I am promoting my business.
by Sombrero Guy on Aug 12, 2010 11:05 AM EDT up reply actions
I disagree. He’s captured the imagination of the city in a way no other Cap has done.
"You ever use smelling salts, every time you type a bad blog?" Brooks Laich
by Carl Putnam on Aug 12, 2010 11:05 AM EDT up reply actions
It’s not a situation like the Blackhawks guy and Toews, who really was picked too early.
But Ovechkin is the face of the franchise now and probably forever.
Money don't make my world go round...i'm reaching out to a higher ground
Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Aug 12, 2010 11:10 AM EDT up reply actions
He absolutely is, already, the best player to ever put on a Caps uniform. He’s the only player in the NHL to be a first team all star his first 5 seasons, and the only Cap to win the Hart Trophy (twice, along with a runner-up finish last year). He absolutely belongs up there.
When he retires from hockey, hopefully after a long career, Ovechkin may be remembered as the greatest left wing to ever play the game, as well as the greatest player to ever come from Russia. He is that good.
Washington Capitals 2009-10 = Quebec Nordiques 1994-95
--- D'ohboy
by MikeL-Pivonka on Aug 12, 2010 11:10 AM EDT up reply actions
I would disagree with this statement for this reason. It might be splitting words a little too finely, but Ovechkin might be the best “talent” ever to put on a Caps uniform. I can conceive of an argument in which Rod Langway and Olaf Kolzig — both of whom have a completed body of work — were better “players” for this franchise. Now, when Ovechkin is done? It is likely that he will stand head and shoulders above the field. But “likely” is not a history.
If you've read this far...seek help.
by ThePeerless on Aug 12, 2010 11:14 AM EDT up reply actions
If the Caps were the Habs then maybe I could buy your line of thinking, but they are not. This isn’t a franchise with a lot of postseason success. He’s the only league MVP ever to play for the organization. He is not only the face of the current franchise, but also one of the two faces of the NHL right now. My understanding of the criteria is who are the “faces” of the franchise.
"You ever use smelling salts, every time you type a bad blog?" Brooks Laich
by Carl Putnam on Aug 12, 2010 11:22 AM EDT up reply actions
Ovi’s accomplished a lot off the ice, too, in terms of making the team relevant again. Think about where this team was in 2005. Think about where it would be today if they drafted Brent Seabrook in 2004.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
are you trying to make us cry?
Watching the O’s try to use strategy is like watching Mike Green trying to figure out the difference between "your" and "you’re"--Terpgrrl
Donation info for SAVES FOR KIDS 2010!! Make a difference.
Mount Puckmore Criteria:
These four people are who you remember most when you think of these teams — whether they be players, coaches or executives.
What does that have to do with what he might do in the future? Ovechkin could go tomorrow and I would still put him in my own top 4 of most remembered players. I understand you think he’s a work in progress but, so far, hasn’t his play been incredibly memorable?
I look to the future because that's where I'm going to spend the rest of my life.
I could see Sid not on the Pens, but doesn’t seem like the Caps have enough great franchise players to unseat AO.
Cидни Kросби: Александр Oвечкин, он твой папа теперь
матовая Клими, Михал нуивирт ваш папа теперь
Red Line Station: for Capitals fans who can bear reading something less intelligent than a story at Japers' Rink
Follow me on Twitter!
by red army line on Aug 13, 2010 3:07 AM EDT up reply actions
....
No one’s dumb enough to dispute Langway seriously, but I would have put him on there if this was the only thing he had ever done in his whole career
Money don't make my world go round...i'm reaching out to a higher ground
Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Aug 12, 2010 11:31 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I agree with your Puckmore choices.
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Aug 12, 2010 12:06 PM EDT reply actions
The Mt. Blogmore thing was a nice touch, too (although we’re more of a “roadside historical marker” sort of blog).
If you've read this far...seek help.
by ThePeerless on Aug 12, 2010 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Tikkanen? Try Kwiatkowski
Since my browser won’t let me reply to the above posts, I’ll say it here. Without Tikkanen shadowing Jason Allison and Alexei Yashin, the Caps may not have made the third round. Tikkanen provided a little offense, a lot of experience, and plain all-around pain in the @$$itude. While that miss sucks, let’s remember that the Caps BLEW A 2-GOAL LEAD in the third period and were winning 4-3 when the Tik got himself into position to even take the shot. It sounds like a lame excuse for a total team epic fail.
You want suckiness? Try Joel Kwiatkowski getting beaten like an old dog for the series winning goal by Martin St. Louis in triple OT game 6. He has a long history of suckitude for the Caps, so it’s not a flash in the pan. He was an offensive defenseman who played like a stay-at-home.
Following the Caps at Rock the Red.
by Marshall Pirate on Aug 12, 2010 2:50 PM EDT reply actions
Going by Megalodon’s guideline of:
These are the four players (or coaches or GMs or whatever) that, when you think of your favorite team, just fucking drive you out of your mind. The guys that you couldn’t stand even when they wore your team’s jersey, or players you are embarrassed to have once cheered o
I nominate Flash. Harsh? Yes. But I really do absolutely hate that he is on the Caps.
The guy is Peter Schumpmaker. Lord knows what a schump is, but you can bet your bippy his ancestors made them. What he's doing is far worse than crafting fine schumps.
by Steckel Me Elmo on Aug 12, 2010 3:06 PM EDT reply actions
Anyone who complains about your mount Rushmore should look at the real mount Rushmore. Teddy Roosevelt, really? Thank god we invaded Cuba.
A properly formulaic Mount Rushmore must have two founders, one guy who kept everything together and one guy who has a big name but really didn’t do much.
Having Ovechkin on the mount is like if FDR was on Mount Rushmore. Totally deserved but too soon.
"Have you ever played?" "Yes, I was a goalie"
I know something about that open net...
…and although I know it to be fact, stating it here inevitably makes it hearsay. That’s fine. Lean in, and The Donkey will tell you anyway…
Before that game, in the late afternoon, Esa sat in a dingy DC bar and downed 10 miller lights.
Bottles, not draft.
When asked when he had to get going, he replied, “after the next one,” or something to that effect.
When my source saw the missed net, he said he felt personally responsible and the only thing that made him feel better was the fact that he was a Bruins fan, a Southie.
I told him I considered him personally responsible, too. When i asked why he didn’t just cut him off, he said he ordered the first 6 at once, and just assumed other people would be suddenly showing up. I don’t think that excuses #’s 7-10, but he made a valid point when he said “Who am I to tell him to stop?” After all, he would have probably just hit another bar. 10 miller lights in a short span of time denotes a problem, and that was always the rumor about the dynastic Edmonton team, that they were a bunch of drinking, tooting, party animals.
Take it for what its worth.
The Way is riddled with deep, dark holes.
by The Jade Donkey on Aug 12, 2010 3:36 PM EDT reply actions
Game 2 in Detroit
didn’t the open net happen in game 2 in Detroit?
by kingbonehead on Aug 12, 2010 8:48 PM EDT up reply actions
my bad. terrible editing.
The Way is riddled with deep, dark holes.
by The Jade Donkey on Aug 12, 2010 10:21 PM EDT reply actions
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recent FanPosts
FanShots
Quick hits of video, photos, quotes, chats, links and lists that you find around the web.
Recent FanShots
Southeast Standings
| GP | W | L | OTL | PT | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
Florida
|
53 | 25 | 17 | 11 | 61 |
|
Washington
|
54 | 28 | 21 | 5 | 61 |
|
Winnipeg
|
56 | 26 | 24 | 6 | 58 |
|
Tampa Bay
|
53 | 23 | 24 | 6 | 52 |
|
Carolina
|
55 | 20 | 25 | 10 | 50 |
(updated 2.10.2012 at 3:26 AM EST)
The Vault
In Association With
Latest Puck Daddy - NHL from Yahoo! Sports
- Thursday’s Three Stars: Max Pac hat trick; Chris Phillips’ memorable 1,000th game
- It’s over: Montreal’s Scott Gomez finally ends goalless streak (Video)
- Scott Hartnell’s goal celebration now includes fighting Dion Phaneuf (Video)
- Puck Previews: Leafs meet Flyers; Steve Yzerman not playing in Winter Classic Alumni Game?
- Three theories on why Hurricanes might pull Tuomo Ruutu off trading block
Certain photos copyright © 2012 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
