Ranking the Capitals: #1
by J.P. on Aug 10, 2010 10:17 AM EDT
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PrintIn an effort to beat the summer doldrums, we're undertaking to rank - with your help - the Washington Capitals (only players under contract will be considered). The criteria is simple: who at this moment is the most valuable player in the organization who hasn't already been ranked? Put another way, if you could only keep one of the remaining players - because of what he brings on the ice or off it, his upside, what he could fetch in trade, and so on - who would it be? Consider age, potential, contract status, organizational depth, etc. - it's your call. And after you vote and defend your selection in the comments, help us out and suggest a name to add to the next poll. [Note: here's a recap of last year's rankings.]
So without further ado...
If this FanPost is written by someone other than one of the blog's editors, the opinions expressed in it do not necessarily reflect those of this blog or SB Nation.
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I don’t understand, where’s Steckel?
/shows himself out
It takes...something? Anything?!?
by Bald Pollack on Aug 10, 2010 10:18 AM EDT reply actions 4 recs
.
Off to a rollickin’ start.
That final list from last year… some real misses on it:
Alex Ovechkin
Nicklas Backstrom
Mike Green
Alexander Semin
Semyon Varlamov
Brooks Laich
Karl Alzner
Mike Knuble
Tom Poti
David Steckel
John Carlson
Jeff Schultz
Brendan Morrison
Tomas Fleischmann
Michal Neuvirth
Eric Fehr
Boyd Gordon
Jose Theodore
Oskar Osala
Shaone Morrisonn
Brian Pothier
Matt Bradley
Anton Gustafsson
Milan Jurcina
Chris Bourque
John Erskine
Chris Clark
Mathieu Perreault
Braden Holtby
Stefan Della Rovere
Tyler Sloan
Keith Aucoin
Francois Bouchard
Quintin Laing
Jay Beagle
Alexandre Giroux
Andrew Gordon
Sean Collins
Josh Godfrey
Joe Finley
Trevor Bruess
Kyle Wilson
Steven Pinizzotto
Jake Hauswirth
Zach Miskovic
Viktor Dovgan
Patrick McNeill
Boyd Kane
Michael Nylander
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by J.P. on Aug 10, 2010 10:20 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Poor Patrick McNeill.
Money don't make my world go round...i'm reaching out to a higher ground
Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Aug 10, 2010 10:21 AM EDT up reply actions
Poor voting.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
by J.P. on Aug 10, 2010 10:37 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Poor Nylander….
Washington Capitals 2009-10 = Quebec Nordiques 1994-95
--- D'ohboy
by MikeL-Pivonka on Aug 10, 2010 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Defintely not…. he’s still got $3M coming to him.
Washington Capitals 2009-10 = Quebec Nordiques 1994-95
--- D'ohboy
by MikeL-Pivonka on Aug 10, 2010 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Nothing too out of place here...
Where do you think they missed last year?
Stecks is way too high…and Theo is too low…Gordo and Morrison are a little high too.
Other then that, they did a pretty good job.
Ovechkin. For at least the next 8-9 years.
Money don't make my world go round...i'm reaching out to a higher ground
Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Aug 10, 2010 10:20 AM EDT reply actions
Seriously the fact that other people have been voted for is hilarious.
I could maybe entertain an argument for Backy…
I am a hockey fan first, and a Caps fan second.
by iwearstripes on Aug 10, 2010 10:35 AM EDT up reply actions
I think we could more than entertain it for Backs. I voted for him. The fact is right now he’s a more integral part than Ovi. Caps have more wing depth than center depth. Plus, centers have additional responsibilities.
"You ever use smelling salts, every time you type a bad blog?" Brooks Laich
by Carl Putnam on Aug 10, 2010 11:04 AM EDT up reply actions
Agreed totally.
A clear conscience is usually the sign of a bad memory
by Rather Bengt on Aug 10, 2010 11:05 AM EDT up reply actions
That combined with the fact that he is now locked up for the next decade for about $3 mil less than Ovi. I thought the vote would at least be a little closer than it currently is.
"Do not be afraid to ask for credit, for our way of refusing is very polite."
by Laich It Or Lump It on Aug 10, 2010 11:07 AM EDT up reply actions
I think a lot of it is instinctive – you see Ovie’s name and you read “most valuable” and no matter how highly most of us think of Backstrom, the knee-jerk is to go with the captain.
It’s more of a debate this year for sure but I still think Ovechkin’s the most valuable, albeit by a slimmer margin than I would have given him last year.
I’d like to know from the folks who voted for Ovi, why they think he’s more valuable than Backs. Is it pure numbers? leadership?
"You ever use smelling salts, every time you type a bad blog?" Brooks Laich
by Carl Putnam on Aug 10, 2010 11:12 AM EDT up reply actions
Numbers, leadership, personality, and NHL players agree with Ovie being #1. Backs is a close #2 though.
by vtcapsfan99 on Aug 10, 2010 11:14 AM EDT up reply actions
look at the unity Ovie brings to the people:)
by vtcapsfan99 on Aug 10, 2010 11:42 AM EDT up reply actions
Numbers, leadership, the fact that he’s still got the ability – one that Backstrom’s sort of developing but not to the same degree – to put the team on his shoulders and carry them to a win, the fact that he’s the face of the franchise, and the fact that his peers see him as the MVP of the League – so how can he not be that for the team?
I’m not sure I’m buying anyone on the Caps as having the ability to put the team on their shoulders and carry them to a win.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
by Rob Parker on Aug 10, 2010 12:19 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Backstrom in the game at Chicago after Ovie was kicked out, his wonderful OT winning goal.
If Semin is feeling into it, he can score like crazy. Recall his hat trick game against Ottawa the past season. Unfortunately, he’s not always feeling into the game that way.
by vtcapsfan99 on Aug 10, 2010 12:23 PM EDT up reply actions
That Ottawa game was a loss, fwiw.
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Maybe if Semin had played the whole game that way other than the one period he got all the goals, it wouldn’t have been a loss. Actually how was the defense in that game? Is that the game where Laich played D?
I think Semin is capable of taking the team on his shoulders and winning the game, I just don’t know if we’ll ever see it happen. But I think we have seem Ovie and Backstrom do it.
by vtcapsfan99 on Aug 10, 2010 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions
That was the game for which Varly was “unprepared.”
Obviously, you score three and the loss is rarely on you.
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ok thanks for the reminder. I personally thought Varly needed some more starts back in Hershey. Wasn’t Neuvy also injured at the time? Maybe that’s why they went with Varly. That was a rough period there for Varly with all those injuries and how long it took him to get back to form until the very end of the season. I was actually somewhat surprised that he had those games in Montreal in the playoffs where he looked like Varly of old.
by vtcapsfan99 on Aug 10, 2010 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Maybe if Semin had played the whole game that way other than the one period he got all the goals, it wouldn’t have been a loss.
Man if that’s not a summation of Semin’s play in general, I don’t know what is.
It takes...something? Anything?!?
by Bald Pollack on Aug 10, 2010 1:33 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
4 playoff series, 3 losses. Just sayin’.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
by Rob Parker on Aug 10, 2010 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I assume you are speaking to no-shows like Semin, Fleischmann…even Laich to an extent.
Choking since 1985.
I’m saying we lost 3/4 of our series and the one we won was against by far the weakest opposition. If we had anyone on the team that could pick up a team and carry them, we would have seen it by now. Regulars know that in general I disagree with the notion that single players can carry teams, but insofar as it’s possible, I don’t see how anyone could think the Caps have that guy.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
I tend to think the concept of one skater carrying a team is a fallacy.
There are five skaters on the ice for 60 minutes. If the Caps had won those series they would have looked at AO’s stats and said he carried the team.
But yeah…it would have been nice to see Ovie score in Game 7 vs. Montreal. Then again guys like Crosby subsequently failed as well.
Choking since 1985.
I’d have been happy with him playing hard and smart during the first ten minutes of Game 5. Y’know, leading by example and all.
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by J.P. on Aug 10, 2010 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Regular. Season. Means. Dick. Just. Sayin’.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
by Rob Parker on Aug 10, 2010 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Except that it’s necessary to get through regular season games in order to get to games that matter, and when one guy is responsible for a number of points in the standings almost on his own that’s a big deal. He’s done it in the playoffs, too, btw – one guy can’t win a series but he certainly was the reason for a few wins against the Flyers and Penguins.
I think F&B’s point is a fair one, though – AO (and everyone else on the team, for that matter) had three chances to “carry the team” or “will it to win” or whatever, and they all failed. Big time.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
Right, but the ability is there…and when he’s not doing it, it still feels like he’s trying to sometimes. Didn’t there seem to be games in the Montreal series where he was pushing too hard?
I don’t know…when we start dismissing the regular season entirely, when we discount an ability someone may have just because they can’t do it every single time the team is failing, what’s the point? No, the regular season isn’t everything, and yes, the team needs to figure out how to win in the playoffs. But dismissing the 82 games that come before just because they don’t end with a Cup, that seems dumb to me. You have to get to the playoffs before you can win in them, and you have to put yourself in the best position to do that. Obviously the next step is using that position to your advantage but that doesn’t diminish the importance of getting there.
I don’t know…when we start dismissing the regular season entirely, when we discount an ability someone may have just because they can’t do it every single time the team is failing, what’s the point?
I don’t think anyone is expecting AO to do it “every single time.” But before we start saying that he’s a guy who can will his team to win, I think he should, y’know, demonstrate that once or twice when it matters.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
Hat trick vs. the Pens in 09 playoffs is a good example. Would like to add more examples to his resume.
by mechanicsville on Aug 10, 2010 3:35 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m getting flashbacks of AO repeatedly trying his patented Ovie move of going up the left side, trying to barrel through 2-3 defenders and shoot. Montreal obviously figured him out but he didn’t seem able to adjust. I hope he’s worked on that a little in the off-season.
I think I am the most unhappy with the team leaders in game 5. The first goal scored with Knuble, Ovie, and Backs on the ice making little effort to play some defense and look like they cared to show up at the game. I think the second goal was also scored on them and then the caps were down 2-0 very quickly. Granted, Varly probably should have blocked those shots, but the guys in front of him didn’t do him any favors. I just don’t get why the caps didn’t seem ready for that game when they could of put Montreal away on home ice.
by vtcapsfan99 on Aug 10, 2010 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions
I understand why people are bitter and upset at the Caps crashing and burning repeatedly in the playoffs, but I don’t get the whole regular season means nothing camp. I personally enjoyed the heck out of going to games last season and watching games on TV (other than the playoffs). Winning the cup is very rare and while it sucks to lose while being so close, if winning the cup is the only thing that will make us happy as sports fans, we are going to be pretty unsatisfied in life. I guess I enjoy the journey a lot and don’t think it means nothing. Maybe it comes from the torture being a skins fan and having low expectations, I am able to appreciate the caps regular season a lot.
One of my all time favorite games as a sports fan was going to the second to last game of the regular season. Ovie got his 50th goal, temporarily pulled ahead of Crosby in the race, Backstrom got his 100th point, Semin was trying to score like crazy, everyone was chanting MVP for Ovie. It was just a lot of fun that I still enjoy remembering, despite was followed in the playoffs.
by vtcapsfan99 on Aug 10, 2010 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I guess I enjoy the journey a lot and don’t think it means nothing.
That’s absolutely fair.
When I say “Regular Season Means Dick,” I mean it means little-to-nothing as a predictive tool vis-a-vis playoff success. I absolutely enjoy the regular season for the entertainment value and so on, but the accomplishments and achievements are somewhat hollow without post-season success.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
Regular season isn’t a good predictor if you have a coach that doesn’t make adjustments that are necessary in a 7 games series. I really hope that Bruce learned something from this season.
by vtcapsfan99 on Aug 10, 2010 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions
4 playoff series, 4 seven gamers. At least two of those the opponent was overmatched, maybe even 3.
He should have learned by now but I’m convinced this is his last year to figure it out.
Sorry, getting OT.
Choking since 1985.
One of those guys is the best player in the NHL, the other guy isn’t. Nick is the easy 2nd vote for me but you just don’t replace AO. The next best wing in the league is significantly behind AO, and that’s not the case with Nick. Within the Caps the C is the thinnest position, but within the entire NHL market C is a much deeper position, and thus easier to bring in a replacement from the outside. Plus, he’s Alex Fucking Ovechkin.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
by Rob Parker on Aug 10, 2010 12:18 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Rec’d for perfection.
Plus, he’s Alex Fucking Ovechkin.
"I’m very happy to hear the news," Ovechkin said when he heard about Backstrom's longterm contract--"because he’s one of the top centers in the world, one of my best friends and we want to play together for a long time. He’s a guy who wants to stay in one place and be comfortable and win, just like me. We talk all the time about playing together, and we talked after the playoffs about how we can win in Washington."
by capsyoungguns on Aug 10, 2010 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions
You could argue that Backstrom is valuable to the Caps but off the ice in terms of merchandise sales, ticket sales and overall casual fan interest the Capitals need Ovechkin.
Caps Snaps - Washington Capitals News and Photography
by cobracg on Aug 10, 2010 1:06 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Wow, I really had some typing issues on that post.
Caps Snaps - Washington Capitals News and Photography
Backstrom would be #1 on almost every other team in the NHL… not this one, Not Buffalo and not Pittsburgh…
Washington Capitals 2009-10 = Quebec Nordiques 1994-95
--- D'ohboy
by MikeL-Pivonka on Aug 10, 2010 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Doughty fans might also take exception.
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Wings fans might take issue.
"You ever use smelling salts, every time you type a bad blog?" Brooks Laich
by Carl Putnam on Aug 10, 2010 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions
If he doesn’t get hurt. If he doesn’t see his play drop off because he’s lost a half-a-step. If if if. Sometime in the next few years, we could very well be looking at a more valuable Cap. Is AO the best, most valuable player on the team right now? Yeah, I don’t think there’s any doubt. Is it inconceivable that Green pulls it together and hits his prime right as AO is ending his? How about Backstrom having his prime at 25, when AO is 28? If Carlson continues to develop at the pace he has, we’re looking at another guy with Norris-level abilities.
It’s an open question after the next couple of seasons, in my opinion.
Only YOU can prevent idiots from commenting!
by Knee high to a duck on Aug 10, 2010 3:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Injuries etc. are always a possibility with any player. I do believe skill-wise he’s a phenom—a rare talent ahead of most of his peers (I say most for I put Crosby in this category).
For me what Ovi brings to the franchise in addition to his talent are the intangibles. He has an aura about him, a way of connecting with people, that makes him unique in my view. He’s a larger-tha-life sort of personality with charm and wit and an openness about him. I’m not saying this very well, but I think he’s an essential part of why DC has become a hockey town. And with his commitment to spending his prime years with the organization I believe this town can remain a hockey town. He’s a great face for the franchise.
I’m not trying to take anything away from Nicky, but I don’t put him in that category. As a pairing however I believe that they make the franchise even stronger. We fans have a marvelous ten years ahead of us—a decade that will be even better when the Caps bring home the Cup. I remain in the camp that a Cup will be won by the team because frankly I think Ovi is just too talented.
Sorry for my rambling—I guess that I’m trying to say that sometimes value can be more than just the skill a player has.
"I’m very happy to hear the news," Ovechkin said when he heard about Backstrom's longterm contract--"because he’s one of the top centers in the world, one of my best friends and we want to play together for a long time. He’s a guy who wants to stay in one place and be comfortable and win, just like me. We talk all the time about playing together, and we talked after the playoffs about how we can win in Washington."
by capsyoungguns on Aug 10, 2010 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Yep. He voted for Brooks Laich in hopes of getting his tires rotated.
Washington Capitals 2009-10 = Quebec Nordiques 1994-95
--- D'ohboy
by MikeL-Pivonka on Aug 10, 2010 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions
So when does the Semin ballot-box stuffingbeginresume?
It takes...something? Anything?!?
by Bald Pollack on Aug 10, 2010 10:25 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
OFB’s already leading the way for something that rhymes with “Foe Jinley” and/or “BJ Fling”
Money don't make my world go round...i'm reaching out to a higher ground
Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Aug 10, 2010 10:28 AM EDT up reply actions
Snarl!
"Now wait a minute. This is just purely a social call. You know, just two adults getting a stew on, man."
by The Ghost of Bebop on Aug 10, 2010 10:30 AM EDT up reply actions
Granted it’s only 15 minutes old, but kinda thought Green would have a vote or two by now.
It takes...something? Anything?!?
by Bald Pollack on Aug 10, 2010 10:34 AM EDT up reply actions
When you kinda think about it, wouldn’t it be more valuable to have a 30 goal scoring defenseman than to have a 50 goal scoring forward?
Money don't make my world go round...i'm reaching out to a higher ground
Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Aug 10, 2010 10:35 AM EDT up reply actions
If said 30 goal-scoring defenseman didn’t magically transform into a 0 goal-scoring defenseman in the postseason, maybe.
"Now wait a minute. This is just purely a social call. You know, just two adults getting a stew on, man."
by The Ghost of Bebop on Aug 10, 2010 10:37 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
I think Carlson’s emergence has reduced Green’s value some.
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True. I also think Green can blame himself for his value reducing some.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
No question. I was just referring to a purely external influence on his value – even if Green was the exact same player, Carlson’s presence would necessarily lower his value a smidge.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
I agree. That’s basically the same take I had when I looked at the prospects with regards to the goalies. But when I look at Green right now, his value has dropped more because of the last two playoffs than Carlson’s emergence. I’m not sold on Carlson being a top pair stud yet (though I think he will be someday) but I’m also pretty turned off by Green’s play against MON.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
Yup. Two different issues, but yup.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
Less is more
Actually, the more I consider this, the more I think that Green could become a better (albeit perhaps not move valuable) player with Carlson in the lineup.
If Carlson emerges as a legitimate puck-moving alternative to Green, this ought to allow BB to reduce Green’s playing time. I actually think this would result in a much better performance out of Green, since he looks run-down about 70% of the time, and playing 25+ mins every night doesn’t seem to help.
'Cause the end of what it was is what it is right now...
But that playing time is somewhat deceptive, given how much of it is “easy” time on the PP – he didn’t get a whole hell of a lot more ES TOI than his mates and got very little SH TOI.
That said, I wholeheartedly agree that his minutes should be pared some.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
This is kinda what I was hoping Corvo would do (and which he didn’t really achieve) – reduce the burden on Green to be THE GUY who clears the zone and starts the break up ice. It’s a tough job that exposes you to a ton of hits. . . just ask Brian Campbell. Or Tim Gleason. Or Sergei Gonchar.
'Cause the end of what it was is what it is right now...
I would not vote Green as the most important player regardless of how many goals he scores. He’s not driving the bus here.
You perhaps knew me better as "Your Nation's Capital." Same great commentary, now with 100% more transparency!
Hey, if the guy who can fix the bus gets a vote, maybe a passenger can.
It takes...something? Anything?!?
by Bald Pollack on Aug 10, 2010 10:48 AM EDT up reply actions
Very fitting with your username, eh?
A Capital Wasteland - art & hockey from Washington, D.C.
by Jake Shapiro on Aug 10, 2010 10:59 AM EDT up reply actions
And Brooksie as an avatar. Works both ways.
by mechanicsville on Aug 10, 2010 11:03 AM EDT up reply actions
I would not vote Green as the most important player regardless of how many goals he scores.
If he had a few 40 goal seasons in a row along with a solid playoff performance it would be really easy for me to vote him as MVP.
I look to the future because that's where I'm going to spend the rest of my life.
I would not vote Green as the most important player regardless of how many goals he scores. He’s not driving the bus here.
A defenseman who scores like Mike Green is the hockey equivalent of having a catcher who hits like Albert Pujols and plays well behind the dish. There’s a reason why Joe Mauer is perennially in contention for the AL MVP…
'Cause the end of what it was is what it is right now...
Green’s in my top 3. Doughty might (probably?) reach Green’s offensive level, but for now, you’re right, he’s like the Joe Mauer of defensemen. There’s no one like him. (Green’s 08-09 season=Mauer’s 09 season? I’d be shocked if we ever saw repeats. Unbelievable to watch)
Watching the O’s try to use strategy is like watching Mike Green trying to figure out the difference between "your" and "you’re"--Terpgrrl
Donation info for SAVES FOR KIDS 2010!! Make a difference.
sort of leading off topic
Couple of things
I agree with you in principle.
BUT Comparing Mauer’s 09 and Green’s 08-09 is kind of ludicrous. Joe Mauer had the best season any catcher has ever had in history, history. All catchers combined batting titles 3. Joe Mauer 3. Green had a nice year and one of the best in a decade, for a D-man, but Mauer had a season for a catcher that has never been seen before, ever.
Green may even end up being the best in a generation but judging by history you’re likely never to see a catcher like Joe Mauer ever again.
You’re giving Green that much credit for his two-way game? Sometimes I’d say he’s more like Jason Giambi than Joe Mauer.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
If Jason Giambi played a premium defensive position (SS, CF, C, 3B) and did it well. Instead, he’s a DH/1B who doesn’t even hit all that well anymore.
'Cause the end of what it was is what it is right now...
Yeah Giambi is toast, but I meant like 5 years ago. I have spent too much time defending his defensive play, and he did make strides last year, but I just don’t think I value his defensive play as much as you do anymore. His play against MON really turned my opinion around of him. Lack of defensive attention, lack of intensity, horrible decisionmaking. All in the biggest games of the year. It was extremely disappointing.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
I agree with both you and f_d that his play in the MON series was atrocious, and this was made worse by his sub-par performance in the previous year’s playoffs. However, I’m not going to toss out three regular season’s worth of stellar performances, including one great playoff performance against PHI, on the basis of two poor playoffs, one of which he played through injury.
His defense is already good and improving. He’s clearly the best offensive defenseman in the league by a fairly wide margin. He’s streaky though, and he’s had a couple bad streaks at a couple really inopportune times.
'Cause the end of what it was is what it is right now...
The concern is his overall playoff performance have become a pattern.
"You ever use smelling salts, every time you type a bad blog?" Brooks Laich
by Carl Putnam on Aug 10, 2010 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t know that that’s necessarily true. This year he was horrible, and for no apparent reason other than he was in his head and second-guessing himself. But last year he was injured/sick (and yes, I know everyone’s injured in the playoffs, blah blah blah, doesn’t mean we should expect them to be their best) and the year before I thought he stepped up after some initial jitters.
If he mails it in again this year, it’s a pattern. I’m not sold on him not being a playoff performer though.
I think Green needs some sort of sports psychologist to help him through his playoff issues. I think he’s capable of doing well in the playoffs, he’s just holding himself back mentally. He was playing well from the olympics to the end of the season. I don’t know what changed in his brain during the playoffs to make him such a basket case.
I think Green needs a solid, established veteran alongside him, or at least somewhere in the top 4.
Especially after Poti went down, he had that haunted look because after Green, who else was there? Corvo played 12 minutes and Sloan played 10 in Game 5 — and that was with Poti in the lineup.
I’m with those who believe that the emergence of Alzner and Carlson (if they play like we think they can) will do wonders for Green. Then he won’t feel like he has to be everything out there.
It is way, way too easy to forget that Mike Green has not yet turned 25.
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Aug 10, 2010 1:28 PM EDT up reply actions
It is way, way too easy to forget that Mike Green has not yet turned 25.
Some days its easy to forget he’s turned 16.
"You ever use smelling salts, every time you type a bad blog?" Brooks Laich
by Carl Putnam on Aug 10, 2010 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
It is way, way too easy to forget that Mike Green has not yet turned 25.
So very true. We’ve been spoiled by having so many guys be so good at such a young age, that when they act their age we forget how young they are.
Defense is not an easy position – and it’s even more difficult when all eyes on you and you’ve been subjected to a season of people picking on your last playoffs, denying you a place on an Olympic squad and bashing your defensive abilities.
It is way, way too easy to forget that Mike Green has not yet turned 25.
Neither has Sarge!!!
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
He wasn’t just injured the year before. His decision making made me question his mental makeup. This year’s performance made me even more concerned. He seems to wilt under the pressure. The word ‘tentative’ is not one you’d ever use to describe Mike Green for 82 games a year. However, come April its precisely the word I use to describe him.
"You ever use smelling salts, every time you type a bad blog?" Brooks Laich
But he didn’t look that way at all against Philly.
'Cause the end of what it was is what it is right now...
I was unimpressed with Philly’s game plan that series. They weren’t nearly as physical with him as they should have been IMO. Also, they gave him lanes to lead the rush way too often as well.
"You ever use smelling salts, every time you type a bad blog?" Brooks Laich
Well, Philly claimed to have targeted Green in that series.
And Green was much faster/quicker back then.
'Cause the end of what it was is what it is right now...
Speed thing is pure truth. Not sure what happened but Green looks like he’s aged 15 years on his skates.
"You ever use smelling salts, every time you type a bad blog?" Brooks Laich
It’s amazing what adding 15-25lbs will do to your speed, especially when it’s useless upper-body bulk. Or hair gel.
'Cause the end of what it was is what it is right now...
by D'ohboy on Aug 10, 2010 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
I think Doughty is closer offensively than people think, and he’s way farther ahead defensively.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
Doughty had a phenomenal year and a good Olympics. Still, Green has put up three offensive years in a row that are as good or better than Doughty’s year last year.
FWIW, Green’s BtN ratings, GVT and +/- were all superior to Doughty’s. Personally, I think the combination of Green’s gambling style with Boudreau’s high-pressure system leads to a lot of really bad-looking gaffes that stick out in our minds.
'Cause the end of what it was is what it is right now...
I agree with all of that, but look at Doughty’s age. By the end of the season when he had really found his game he was pretty scary offensively. Within a year or two I think Doughty will catch Green offensively and I don’t ever see Green catching Doughty defensively.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
Ha. When we did this last year, didn’t we just automatically put Ovie at #1 and start with the #2 poll?
A Capital Wasteland - art & hockey from Washington, D.C.
Yep. With Backstrom unsigned, I think that made sense. Now, with Nick’s monster season and long-term deal in place, I could see an argument being made on his behalf.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
I instinctively voted for AO, but now that I think about it more, I sort of wish I had gone with Backy…
Ovie is the best player on the team, but Baxter is the most important player on the team.
A Capital Wasteland - art & hockey from Washington, D.C.
by Jake Shapiro on Aug 10, 2010 10:41 AM EDT up reply actions
I definitely wavered between the two – but ultimately I think Ovie still has my vote. But yeah, tough call.
I put Ovie first, Backs second. They were the only ones I considered.
Never underrate the power of the hissy-cow.
I gave some thought to Backstrom, but in the end voted AO.
My reasoning is that at the end of the day, AO helps Nick more than Nick helps AO. I base this on the fact that AO has turned Clark and Zubrus into 30-goal guys.
Much closer vote than in the past, though.
Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?
Caps would be in more trouble if they lost Nicky vs Ovie because there really isn’t anyone to replace Nicky if he is out awhile. Semin always seems to step up when Ovie is out, as does Nicky. Despite the lack of a capable replacement for Nicky, I still voted for Ovie #1. But Nicky is my #2.
by vtcapsfan99 on Aug 10, 2010 10:56 AM EDT up reply actions
Nicky is an extremely special player, no doubt. But I still voted for Ovie. He’s a unique player, I really don’t think there’s anyone else like him right now. I’m comfortable sitting here today and saying that Alex Ovechkin will be the greatest left wing to play the game. He’s going to be one of the greatest ever.
Watching the O’s try to use strategy is like watching Mike Green trying to figure out the difference between "your" and "you’re"--Terpgrrl
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by RedBirdie on Aug 10, 2010 10:58 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
And I don’t know how much this adds to his “value,” but when push comes to shove, a lot of people here at the Rink wouldn’t be here at the Rink if it weren’t for Ovie.
A Capital Wasteland - art & hockey from Washington, D.C.
by Jake Shapiro on Aug 10, 2010 11:09 AM EDT up reply actions
My journey here started with researching an Ovechkin jersey.
You perhaps knew me better as "Your Nation's Capital." Same great commentary, now with 100% more transparency!
I joined last year so I could participate in Ranking the Capitals. Actually, Saturday is my one-year anniversary. Whoa.
"Do not be afraid to ask for credit, for our way of refusing is very polite."
by Laich It Or Lump It on Aug 10, 2010 11:22 AM EDT up reply actions
sort of along those lines, one of the seats next to mine at the VC is a singleton, single game seat. We end up meeting a good number of people who are visiting DC and decided to take in a game for whatever reason (from all over the world, no less). They almost always leave in awe of Ovechkin. They can’t stop talking about him.
Watching the O’s try to use strategy is like watching Mike Green trying to figure out the difference between "your" and "you’re"--Terpgrrl
Donation info for SAVES FOR KIDS 2010!! Make a difference.
Your next addition to the list should be the Double Deuce. If it weren’t for his age, he’d probably be in my personal Top 5.
A Capital Wasteland - art & hockey from Washington, D.C.
I hope we aren’t too hasty to drop the Double Deuce
Money don't make my world go round...i'm reaching out to a higher ground
Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Aug 10, 2010 10:48 AM EDT up reply actions
Ahhh, Craig Laughlin and your wondrous nicknames.
A Capital Wasteland - art & hockey from Washington, D.C.
by Jake Shapiro on Aug 10, 2010 10:58 AM EDT up reply actions
I am an unabashed member of the Semin lobby. That said, I’d like the names of the 2 who voted for Semin as MVC so they can be properly ridiculed.
by mechanicsville on Aug 10, 2010 10:47 AM EDT reply actions
If history is our guide, all votes for Semin will remain forever anonymous.
"Do not be afraid to ask for credit, for our way of refusing is very polite."
by Laich It Or Lump It on Aug 10, 2010 10:55 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Maybe they were picked the most talented player in their opinion? I can see an argument for picking Semin. I wouldn’t, but it’s not totally crazy. I’d rank him fairly high on the list.
by vtcapsfan99 on Aug 10, 2010 10:58 AM EDT up reply actions
Is there any reason to poll #2? Gonna be pretty clear cut, no?
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The way you’ve listed them above is a pretty clear top 4 for me.
by mechanicsville on Aug 10, 2010 10:57 AM EDT up reply actions
I don’t think so. 3 and 4 are going to be battles.
A Capital Wasteland - art & hockey from Washington, D.C.
by Jake Shapiro on Aug 10, 2010 10:58 AM EDT up reply actions
1 and 2 are pretty certain – but not so much after that.
Never underrate the power of the hissy-cow.
Agree. It’s going to be an interesting debate after 1 and 2 for sure – do you value a D more than a goal-scorer? How about a goalie over a D?
I think Green will end up getting ranked a lot lower than he deserves, because people are still pissed off about the playoffs. He’ll have a better 10/11.
A Capital Wasteland - art & hockey from Washington, D.C.
by Jake Shapiro on Aug 10, 2010 11:01 AM EDT up reply actions
For me it wasn’t really the playoffs, since it was kind of a team fail. Thogh that stupid crosscheck in Game Seven didn’t help.
I’d just like to see him more confident in his own fantastic abilities and less dependent on everyone’s opinion.
Including mine, I s’pose.
You perhaps knew me better as "Your Nation's Capital." Same great commentary, now with 100% more transparency!
by EmilyB on Aug 10, 2010 11:04 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Ugh, reminding me of the playoffs just makes me infinitely frustrated. I don’t mean to get too OT, but I still can’t believe our #1-ranked PP had such an epic bedwetting.
A Capital Wasteland - art & hockey from Washington, D.C.
by Jake Shapiro on Aug 10, 2010 11:07 AM EDT up reply actions
Even if you pick D, you might not necessarily choose Green first. Maybe you pick Carlson because you think he has more upside, and less mental issues? I am not even sure myself who I’d pick after 2.
by vtcapsfan99 on Aug 10, 2010 11:02 AM EDT up reply actions
I love me some John Carlson and I’ve been higher on him than almost anybody on here, but if you pick Carlson ahead of Green, you’re absolutely high.
'Cause the end of what it was is what it is right now...
Fact. Though you’d have to concede that Carlson’s emergence has reduced Green’s value to the franchise some, no?
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Hmmm. Maybe slightly, but Green is still a phenomenal player and still an very valuable piece, given the position he plays.
I’ll have to think about this a bit more.
'Cause the end of what it was is what it is right now...
My point is that before Carlson came along, the Caps had zippy in the system (apologies to Orlov) that resembled a puck-mover/PP QB, so by virtue of the fact that there’s another one in the system now, Green is less relatively valuable. Certainly by no means expendable, but less valuable.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
II think Carlson is still way too green (pardon pun) to be putting him up there with Green yet even with the age/contract advantages Carlson has.
"You ever use smelling salts, every time you type a bad blog?" Brooks Laich
by Carl Putnam on Aug 10, 2010 11:36 AM EDT up reply actions
I went with Ovi but I must admit that I hesitated between him and Nicky. Backstrom has a great contract, is younger than Ovi, durable and could still get better plus right now there is no one in the organization who even comes close to replacing him. When Ovi is out of the lineup, Semin can still do a decent job in his place, at least temporarily. However, if Semin is gone after next season, I think Ovi’s value becomes even higher than it already is.
I suggest adding Neuvy next.
Lobbies: Green, Carlson, Orlov
Ovechkin and Backstrom cannot really be contrasted with respect to durability. 09-10 was the first season Ovi missed a game due to injury that I can recall, and that happened to coincide with a suspension. Durability is not an issue with Ovechkin, at least currently. As he gets older, we will see if his body can keep up with his style of play.
"Do not be afraid to ask for credit, for our way of refusing is very polite."
by Laich It Or Lump It on Aug 10, 2010 11:18 AM EDT up reply actions
Let me clarify. I don’t think Nicky is more valuable that Ovi because he’s more durable. Like you said, Ovi is very durable as well despite playing as physical as he does. Whether it stays that way remains to be seen but so far he has been able to stay pretty healthy. What I meant to say is that Backy’s durability is one more reason why I think he is so valuable to the Caps right now. Can you imagine the Caps w/o Nicky in the lineup for an extended period of time? Who do you even replace him with, Aucoin? At the same time, I don’t see the Caps being too successful w/o Ovi in the lineup either. Sure they might be able to beat teams like the Panthers and the Wild but I’m not so sure they could win too many games again the elite teams even with Semin taking his place.
Lobbies: Green, Carlson, Orlov
by CapsFan2020 on Aug 10, 2010 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions
I'm sorry
The lot of you that voted for Backstrom are delusional. Obviously he is one of my favorite players and I’m glad he’s here for 10 years. But you all are completely spoiled by Ovechkin. Completely spoiled.
Choking since 1985.
by macvechkin on Aug 10, 2010 11:17 AM EDT reply actions 2 recs
I don’t think that’s necessarily the right conclusion to draw. Based on contract terms, what happens to 50-goal scorers as they age, etc,. I think the case could be made that Nick has more value to the team, and that takes nothing away from how great a player AO currently is.
I don’t buy the argument, but it could be made (and I believe Corey made it not long ago, FWIW).
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
Delusional? Let’s take away Backs increasing production, his contract terms, his improvement across the board in all areas, and just look at the Caps center depth. You don’t think on that one issue alone he doesn’t deserve some consideration for being #1?
"You ever use smelling salts, every time you type a bad blog?" Brooks Laich
by Carl Putnam on Aug 10, 2010 11:22 AM EDT up reply actions
No, not when you have 1 of the top 2 players in the world on your team.
Total over-analysis.
Choking since 1985.
by macvechkin on Aug 10, 2010 11:23 AM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
Not really – it’s a team game. What makes the team better is how individual value to the team is determined and it’s a worthwhile inquiry.
Plenty of “1 of the top 2 players in the world” have never won dick.
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An argument could certainly be made. By those who enjoy arguing for the sake of it…
Choking since 1985.
It’s more than that.
All else equal, three years from now would the Caps be better off as a team with AO and a League-minimum forward or Backstrom and a $3.5m player? It’s a valid question.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
Anyone who believes the answer is the latter should advocate trading Ovechkin ASAP then.
Choking since 1985.
THAT’S not true, either. You don’t have to think Ovechkin’s the most valuable member of the team to still be aware of his talent and value. There are a lot of players I don’t consider to be the most valuable, doesn’t mean I advocate that they should be traded either.
And people are entitled to their opinions.
And people are entitled to their opinions.
Thank you Becca!
And yes, my opinion is that voting for Backstrom over Ovechkin is delusional.
Choking since 1985.
Well…I meant that as a reminder to everyone, not just people who disagree with you ;) I agree Ovechkin should be #1, but I’d maybe be careful about stating people who pick Backstrom over Ovechkin are delusional…
Huh? So, just because I put Backs as #1 instead of Ovi I should therefore think Ovi should be traded? That makes no logical sense.
"You ever use smelling salts, every time you type a bad blog?" Brooks Laich
by Carl Putnam on Aug 10, 2010 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions
Why have a player who is making the most money in the league, and 40% more than the player deemed most valuable? Oh, unless he’s a generational superstar….I guess…
Choking since 1985.
No one is arguing Ovi isn’t a superstar. I’m arguing that for this Caps teams Backs is more valuable due, in part, due to his position’s relative weakness on the roster. How do the Caps fare is Backs goes down versus Ov going downi? To me that is what makes Backs more valuable.
"You ever use smelling salts, every time you type a bad blog?" Brooks Laich
by Carl Putnam on Aug 10, 2010 11:34 AM EDT up reply actions
To piggyback onto CP2’s opinion, I’ll include this from above:
Consider age, potential, contract status, organizational depth, etc. – it’s your call.
It takes...something? Anything?!?
by Bald Pollack on Aug 10, 2010 11:37 AM EDT up reply actions
But it’s easier to go outside the organization and replace Backstrom than it is with AO. We could get a guy like Savard for cheap if we had to. Is he Backstrom? No. But he’s closer to Backstrom than the second best wing is to AO, and the only wings that could even come close to replacing AO would be ridiculously expensive to trade for.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
I think this is a hyperbolic way of saying that, if Backstrom really is more valuable than Ovechkin, we ought to trade Ovechkin for some $3.5m wingers to play with Backstrom, because so much cap space is tied up in Ovie.
Or something like that.
'Cause the end of what it was is what it is right now...
BTW – would the Caps are better off as a franchise/entity with AO or Backs and a 3.5M player?
Choking since 1985.
Solely looking at it in that framework I could argue again for Backs. Heck, I could argue either way. You seem to be so focused on Ovi’s talent that you fail to grasp how Backs, on this specific caps roster, could be the most important guy.
"You ever use smelling salts, every time you type a bad blog?" Brooks Laich
by Carl Putnam on Aug 10, 2010 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions
It’s not just his talent, the guy is the face of the franchise. and hell, the league for that matter.
Choking since 1985.
But the point is that being the face of the franchise, league, etc., says nothing about his value, since there’s a cost component in value that you haven’t addressed.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
How bout the value of an extra 8K people in the seats every night? Or more national exposure? Merchandise sales? The fact that any team in the league would give up just about any package to get him?
All part of value, sure. I’m just trying to get people thinking about the whole picture and not just who’s better than whom.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
But I think that’s waht Gus is trying to say. When looking at the WHOLE package Ovechkin is clearly the most valuable to the Caps. Granted I wavered back and forth between him and young Nicky, but the more I think about it the clearer it gets for Ovechkin.
I’m actually fine with macvechkin taking PR into account since your definition of value was pretty wide open. You include “off the ice”, so I think that is fair game.
My issue is how he thinks its delusional to even suggest that Backs could be #1. It’s not like those of us who voted for Backs decided to vote for him because of his good natured charm and choice in clothing. I chose criteria I thought were most important.
"You ever use smelling salts, every time you type a bad blog?" Brooks Laich
by Carl Putnam on Aug 10, 2010 11:48 AM EDT up reply actions
My point is that if Player X and Player Y are identical players but Player X makes twice as much, Player Y is more valuable. If Player X is better than Player Y and they make the same amount, Player X is more valuable.
Not necessarily important in this discussion, but going forward, I want people thinking things through.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
Ok, I misinterpreted where you were going.
"You ever use smelling salts, every time you type a bad blog?" Brooks Laich
by Carl Putnam on Aug 10, 2010 11:59 AM EDT up reply actions
Well…I do think it’s delusional. But that doesn’t mean I don’t like you guys… :-)
Choking since 1985.
If nothing else its probably fair that I’m the one in a discussion involving some hyperbole given some of my past postings.
"You ever use smelling salts, every time you type a bad blog?" Brooks Laich
by Carl Putnam on Aug 10, 2010 12:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Let's not overthink this one, folks
Nicky is awesome and all, but Ovie was scoring 50 goals and 100 points with Dainius Zubrus as his center. I love Backstrom and I think he might be the (healthier) second coming of Peter Forsberg, but Ovechkin is simply on another level. He’s the best player in the world. He’s the franchise. The alpha and omega.
'Cause the end of what it was is what it is right now...
by D'ohboy on Aug 10, 2010 11:17 AM EDT reply actions 12 recs
rec this. You made the argument I was trying to make.
Watching the O’s try to use strategy is like watching Mike Green trying to figure out the difference between "your" and "you’re"--Terpgrrl
Donation info for SAVES FOR KIDS 2010!! Make a difference.
I am rec’ing everyone that brings up “overthinking” or “overanalysis”. Ovechkin is the face of the NHL (OK, co-face), has single-handedly turned DC from a place lucky to get 12K fans and “non-hockey market” status to consistent sellouts (and NOT sellouts driven by the visitor!) and a rep as one of the hardest places to play. People across the continent buy tickets just to see him play. He is a generational talent. Nicky is a top 5 center in the league, but he’s nowhere close to the package that Ovie brings, both on and off the ice.
by GusDaMan on Aug 10, 2010 11:36 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Addendum: I cannot overstate what lucky bastards you are to even be able to debate this.
On the Forecheck: preaching the Predators' gospel to the unwashed masses.
by Chris Burton on Aug 10, 2010 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
And yet your team still made it just as far in the playoffs…
'Cause the end of what it was is what it is right now...
… but has never won a series and is less interesting for the 82 games that precede the playoffs. Preds suck!
#fakerivalries
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
‘Less interesting’ is quite debatable, but irrelevant to the current discussion.
Point is, you’re extremely blessed. You’re going to be competitive for the next seven to nine years because of three players, pretty much no matter who you put around them.
One more thing: your coach is fatter than our coach! HA! #fakerivalry
On the Forecheck: preaching the Predators' gospel to the unwashed masses.
by Chris Burton on Aug 10, 2010 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions
We have a coach.
On the Forecheck: preaching the Predators' gospel to the unwashed masses.
by Chris Burton on Aug 10, 2010 12:41 PM EDT up reply actions
… who has won as many NHL playoff series as you have.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
Touche, but I think he’s still years ahead of Boudreau. But again, not going to hijack the thread.
On the Forecheck: preaching the Predators' gospel to the unwashed masses.
by Chris Burton on Aug 10, 2010 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions
I’d definitely give a lot (but not all) of the coaching edge to Trotz.
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I can go along with that. I much prefer BB’s power play strategy…
On the Forecheck: preaching the Predators' gospel to the unwashed masses.
by Chris Burton on Aug 10, 2010 6:13 PM EDT up reply actions
…who looks like he belongs in the Kremlin.
Seriously, I wonder how far back his family name was changed from Trotzky to Trotz.
Nashville should have an ad campaign featuring Trotz aimed at hockey neophytes:
“You might not be interested in Nashville Predators hockey, but Nashville Predators hockey is interested in you!”
'Cause the end of what it was is what it is right now...
Haha, he’s an odd looking dude, for sure.
I think we’d better keep him off the PR campaigns, though. :p
On the Forecheck: preaching the Predators' gospel to the unwashed masses.
by Chris Burton on Aug 10, 2010 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions
it was totally the girl who got her tire changed.
Watching the O’s try to use strategy is like watching Mike Green trying to figure out the difference between "your" and "you’re"--Terpgrrl
Donation info for SAVES FOR KIDS 2010!! Make a difference.
If that was indeed the case, then that’s a very good thing.
Washington Capitals 2009-10 = Quebec Nordiques 1994-95
--- D'ohboy
by MikeL-Pivonka on Aug 10, 2010 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions
You know what’s awesome?
We have the best player in the whole darn league, and yet we have a second player that’s so good and signed to such a favorable contract that we all pretty much had to stop and think before we voted for Alex here.
And that is pretty darn amazing.
by Tromni on Aug 10, 2010 11:56 AM EDT reply actions 5 recs
Yup, that’s pretty sweet.
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by what Juneau about that? on Aug 10, 2010 12:07 PM EDT up reply actions
From a marketing standpoint, Ovechkin. The man puts butts in seats. His face is everywhere. He’s the most (or second-most) recognizable figure in hockey.
From an entertainment standpoint, Ovechkin. The big hits, the big goals, the huge shot, the goal celebrations, etc. I’d rather watch Ovechkin than Backstrom any day.
From a contract standpoint, Backstrom, but only slightly. Part of the reason Ovechkin is paid what he is paid boils down to the above-two factors. Backstrom’s contract is incredibly reasonable (and it will get more and more reasonable if the salary cap continues to escalate). Ovechkin’s pay is unmatched in hockey circles (well, OK, Vinny Lecavalier made more this year) but if you put him in Montreal/Toronto/New York/Boston, those teams would start to rake in money hand over fist. His contract might be one of the few in the league that pays for itself.
In my mind, this is really no contest. If the Capitals called up any of the 29 other NHL teams and said “you can have one of Backstrom or Ovechkin,” the President/Owner of the team would always tell the GM to trade for Ovechkin.
In my mind, this is really no contest. If the Capitals called up any of the 29 other NHL teams and said "you can have one of Backstrom or Ovechkin," the President/Owner of the team would always tell the GM to trade for Ovechkin.
W could call that the Snyder criteria.
"You ever use smelling salts, every time you type a bad blog?" Brooks Laich
by Carl Putnam on Aug 10, 2010 12:09 PM EDT up reply actions
I get why you’d prefer to watch Ovie over Backstrom, but it can be very amazing watching Nicky with the puck. The way he holds onto it and keeps it away from defenders, the way he sometimes seems to freeze time. I don’t recall what game it was in last year, but Ovie broke his stick, dropped it and went to the bench to get another, while Backstrom somehow bought time with the puck in the offensive zone. Watching the play develop, it seemed so obvious that he was waiting for Ovie, but apparently the other team didn’t pick up on that. Ovie raced back with his new stick, got the pass from Backstrom and immediately scored.
by vtcapsfan99 on Aug 10, 2010 12:18 PM EDT up reply actions
It’s not so much meant to be a swipe at Backstrom as it is to be a promotion of Ovechkin. They’re both scary good. But I think that Ovechkin’s skills are those that are much more impressive to a casual observer. His ability isn’t nearly as subtle.
“subtle” is not a word I’d use when describing anything about Alex Ovechkin.
Watching the O’s try to use strategy is like watching Mike Green trying to figure out the difference between "your" and "you’re"--Terpgrrl
Donation info for SAVES FOR KIDS 2010!! Make a difference.
by RedBirdie on Aug 10, 2010 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Absolutely agree on the casual fan angle. Centers and D-men aren’t as appreciated by casual fans. Like lineman in football or defensive guys who rebound in basketball.
"You ever use smelling salts, every time you type a bad blog?" Brooks Laich
by Carl Putnam on Aug 10, 2010 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Backstrom made me think about it, but I went with AO. That kind of generational talent is just too valuable to a franchise, even if he is a winger.
I think the next on the list has gotta be Neuvirth. Although, I wouldn’t mind if Willie Mitchell ended up on the list…
Release the Mackan!
by Killer_Carlson on Aug 10, 2010 12:17 PM EDT reply actions
Have to go with Backstrom. Ovechkin is the better player but Backstrom is more instrumental to the team. Yeah, Ovechkin scored a ton of goals with AHL caliber centers around him but as we see in the playoffs everything changes. Backstrom’s success or lack thereof will determine how far the Capitals go in the playoffs. If he is injured or playing doggedly, not much else will happen.
Don’t believe me? Look at Semin’s attempt in Montreal scoring and developing plays on his own. Without a reputable center, all the talent in the world isn’t going to create goals when they’re asked to be the entire offense.
It’s not that Ovechkin isn’t the best player on the team it’s that there is someone who can step up and fill his shoes at least part way. Do you really think Flash or Gordon or Steckel are really going to be able to play on the 1st line? Look at the Kings game when Backstrom had his migraine. The Caps shouldn’t have even bothered to have anyone on the ice after he left. Again, unless there is some miracle signing of Sharp or Kesler to add depth I can’t in my right mind not list the person on whom the team’s success hinges.
All the king's horses and all the king's men
Couldn't put Humpty together again
I think you’re letting Semin off the hook way too easily.
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by J.P. on Aug 10, 2010 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Don’t worry, I had to type most of that post with my head turned so I didn’t have to see myself excusing the 7 game sized goose egg that Semin laid. I think with some center help he’d have at least put up a pity goal.
He was still asked to do too much, which makes it so much worse with a guy that has the work ethic of hyperactive kid who dumped 3 cups of sugar into his Cookie Crisp cereal at breakfast.
All the king's horses and all the king's men
Couldn't put Humpty together again
Devil's Advocate
Without a reputable center, all the talent in the world isn’t going to create goals when they’re asked to be the entire offense.
If this is the case, then why did neither Ovie nor Semin play very well despite both getting lots of shifts with Backstrom?
(I generally agree with you, and I think that Cs are inherently more valuable than Ws. I just think that, in this case, the W involved is so much better than anyone else that it doesn’t matter how his position hurts him.)
'Cause the end of what it was is what it is right now...
I agree with your assesment
Ovechkin, with a center of dubious quality (Dainius Zubrus) was able help Chris Clark, a perrenial 10 goal a year guy, to score 50 goals over the course of 2 seasons.
A great wing doesn’t need a great center to be great.
In the three seasons before the lockout, Clark had 10, 10 and 10 goals for Calgary and during the lockout, he played in Norway for a team in Storhamar and scored… you guessed it, 10 goals (albeit in 15 games, it is the Norwegian elite league after all…)
Clark’s first year playing with AO and Zubrus: 20 goals, the next year: 30 goals. Since that season, over 3 seasons and 124 games, Clark has 13 goals total.
It wasn’t a great center helping Clark have career years. I mean I like Zubie, he’s a decent player, but he wasn’t the reason Clark was so good…
Washington Capitals 2009-10 = Quebec Nordiques 1994-95
--- D'ohboy
by MikeL-Pivonka on Aug 10, 2010 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions
…why did neither Ovie nor Semin play very well despite both getting lots of shifts with Backstrom
Guess the “Montreal had a hot goaltender in Games 6-7” argument is never going to fly around here. That said, scoring 5-5-10 in a 7 game series (with a goal DQ’d in Game 7) should take Ovi off the “didn’t play very well” list. Like someone said, we’re all just spoiled.
And I’d put Neuvy next on the list.
"HISTORY DOESN’T MATTER!!! .... Who cares if it’s never been done? We aren’t those teams who failed before. We are in control of our own destiny, and we will make it happen our own way.." - A Gordon, June 2010
Ovie and Semin both significantly derailed our offense through unforced selfish plays. In Ovie’s case, this was his repeated use of the “Ovie Move” (come down wing, cut to center, power around or shoot through screen). In Semin’s case, this was his insistence on taking tons of long-distance wrist shots and his unwillingness to spend more than a millisecond anywhere near the net. A good center ought to prevent or mitigate both of these tendencies by controlling the puck.
I’m not laying all of the blame at Backstrom’s feet, I’m just pointing out that a center can only do so much if his wings want to play like idiotic puck-hogs.
'Cause the end of what it was is what it is right now...
Alex Ovechkin has 24 points in the last 2 playoff series he’s been in, both 7 game losses. He plays well in the playoffs and does his job when you consider that the rate he is scoring in the postseason translates to 141 points in an 82 game season…
Washington Capitals 2009-10 = Quebec Nordiques 1994-95
--- D'ohboy
by MikeL-Pivonka on Aug 10, 2010 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Do you really think Semin could replace AO?
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
I wonder if semin thinks he could replace AO?
You perhaps knew me better as "Your Nation's Capital." Same great commentary, now with 100% more transparency!
Yes. Yes he does.
Or at least his agent does – Gandler sees very little difference between AO and Semin and sees his client as significantly better than Nick Backstrom.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
Really?
Or am I missing snark here? Because that’s ludicrous.
Going back to a discussion of a couple weeks ago, Semin doesn’t seem to care about winning and losing, which detracts immensely from his value. It’s neat that he likes to play fancy hockey and make slick plays and all, but doing what it takes to win the particular game you happen to be playing is more important.
Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?
Has the man gone on record with this notion, or do you have a private source for this?
Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?
It’s second-hand from someone familiar with the situation.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
Thank you for sharing that nugget, then.
This further solidifies my belief that the team would be better off trading Semin for a presumably big haul.
Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?
I hear the Kings are in the market for a goal scoring winger. Don’t they have, like, ten million defensive prospects that they could send us?
Also, with Schultz, Green, Alzner, Carlson and Orlov, we don’t really have a great need for another young defenseman.
'Cause the end of what it was is what it is right now...
Why does what his agent thinks solidify your belief that Semin should be traded? B/c contract demands next summer will be unreasonably high?
by mechanicsville on Aug 10, 2010 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Great point on Sasha’s desire negatively impacting his value. The greatest want it all the time, not just on good hair days.
"Those things happen in sport," McPhee said. "It's not like it's anything chronic."
by bigonetimer on Aug 10, 2010 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions
If we had to wait for a good hair day for Ovie to want to win, we’d be in big trouble.
by vtcapsfan99 on Aug 10, 2010 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Replace? No, do a better job than Flash playing up at 1C.
All the king's horses and all the king's men
Couldn't put Humpty together again
I agree with this argument on its own (which is why I’ve been beating the 2C drum. . . to no avail), however, within the context of this argument, it’s just not enough to allow me to overlook the generational talent that is Alex Ovechkin.
'Cause the end of what it was is what it is right now...
The fact that possibility even exists explains 50% of my vote.
"You ever use smelling salts, every time you type a bad blog?" Brooks Laich
by Carl Putnam on Aug 10, 2010 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Elimination games — Games 5, 6 and 7:
Backstrom: 0 goals, 0 assists
Semin: 0 goals, 1 assist
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Aug 10, 2010 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions
:’(
You perhaps knew me better as "Your Nation's Capital." Same great commentary, now with 100% more transparency!
Man I’m still pissed off about last year. Can DJ King go kick someone’s ass for me?
Choking since 1985.
Well, if we’re talking about time travelling and the Caps… how about sending Alex Ovechkin to the Easter Epic in 1987? :)
Washington Capitals 2009-10 = Quebec Nordiques 1994-95
--- D'ohboy
by MikeL-Pivonka on Aug 10, 2010 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions
He’ll kick a Canadiens’ ass or two, that’s what DJ King’ll do!
'Cause the end of what it was is what it is right now...
by D'ohboy on Aug 10, 2010 1:28 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
SOG per game in Games 5, 6 and 7
Backstrom: 3, then 3, then 1
Semin: 9, then 7, then 8
I’d like more than an average of 2 shots per game from a guy who scored 33 goals during the season.
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Aug 10, 2010 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Semin was hurt too, wasn’t he?
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Aug 10, 2010 2:08 PM EDT up reply actions
I think Mike Green had an injured wrist, which you could tell from how his shot sucked on PP. He injured it in the last few games of the regular season while Bruce was playing him to get his 20th goal. He sat out one game. Remember the caps didn’t want him or Nicky playing in WC due to injuries.
I didn’t hear anything about Semin being injured. There were rumors in Russian press about Ovie showing up injured.
I thought Semin’s tendinitis might have flared up again, based on my observations, but I never saw that confirmed by the team.
Watching the O’s try to use strategy is like watching Mike Green trying to figure out the difference between "your" and "you’re"--Terpgrrl
Donation info for SAVES FOR KIDS 2010!! Make a difference.
My hazy memory is “thumb”
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Aug 10, 2010 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions
I thought that was the Pens series? (I swear, Alex Semin has more injuries than I do and I’m a walking disaster)
Watching the O’s try to use strategy is like watching Mike Green trying to figure out the difference between "your" and "you’re"--Terpgrrl
Donation info for SAVES FOR KIDS 2010!! Make a difference.
I remember him being hurt during the ‘09 playoffs (thumb, wasn’t it?). Don’t recall hearing anything from this year.
by mechanicsville on Aug 10, 2010 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions
On about most of the other teams Nick would get the #1 vote, but on the Caps, it’s Alex… no question about it.
The only teams I don’t think Nick gets the #1 vote on besides the Caps are Buffalo (Ryan Miller), Pittsburgh (You-Know-Who) and soon likely LA (Doughty).
Washington Capitals 2009-10 = Quebec Nordiques 1994-95
--- D'ohboy
I disagree – I don’t think he gets that vote on more teams than that depending on the criteria. What are the teams current assets and what are their needs.
I think a non-Caps example might be best as there is emotional investment in the Caps can can cloud judgment.
I’ll use the other team I follow as an example.
Bryz, Scottie Upshall, and Keith Yandle could arguably be considered the top 3 ranked players on the Coyotes. There are a ton of squads where at most one of them would make the top 3 and plenty where none would. They bring specific skill sets that are needed based on the current Yotes roster. Yandle would be nowhere near as high on almost any other team. However, Yotes reliance on their D to score makes his value much higher. Because the Yotes lack of scoring, Upshall he has a much higher value for the Yotes than he would across the league.
"You ever use smelling salts, every time you type a bad blog?" Brooks Laich
by Carl Putnam on Aug 10, 2010 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions
In your example of Phoenix, you’re right in that Bryzgalov, Upshall and Yandle would be among the top guys. But if Nick Backstrom played for the Coyotes, I think he would also likely be the #1 most valuable player on that team. The only player you might argue is Bryz.
Washington Capitals 2009-10 = Quebec Nordiques 1994-95
--- D'ohboy
by MikeL-Pivonka on Aug 10, 2010 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Correct. Yotes desperately need a #1 center.
I think you are missing my point. You can’t just look at talent alone. You have to look at what a teams roster situation is.
"You ever use smelling salts, every time you type a bad blog?" Brooks Laich
A #1 center like Nick Backstrom, if on the Coyotes’ roster would get some votes as #1 is my point. On a lot of teams in the league he would be the top vote getter in terms of rankings if he were on the roster. Just not here, not in Buffalo and not in Pittsburgh… and below, I think CB and BigOneTimer are convincing me that Chicago would also be a team where Nick might not be #1.
Washington Capitals 2009-10 = Quebec Nordiques 1994-95
--- D'ohboy
by MikeL-Pivonka on Aug 10, 2010 1:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Off the top of my head, I’d think Lidstrom, even at his current age in Detroit guys ahead of Backs. Some Dats lovers might argue as well. I think you could argue for Parise in NJ ahead of Backs, though their center situation isn’t great since they traded Bergfors.
"You ever use smelling salts, every time you type a bad blog?" Brooks Laich
Detroit would be a tough call for #1: Lidstrom, Datsyuk, Zetterberg…yikes.
Parise in Jersey is definitely #1 now with Marty as #2, but if Nick was with the Devils, I’d vote him ahead of Parise.
These are all great players to have, eh? :)
Washington Capitals 2009-10 = Quebec Nordiques 1994-95
--- D'ohboy
by MikeL-Pivonka on Aug 10, 2010 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions
No doubt, all great and it makes the decisions tough. That is why I focus on the roster criteria, maybe more than others do. Same with the Caps. I could argue for Ovi or Backs depending on what criteria I placed more value on.
"You ever use smelling salts, every time you type a bad blog?" Brooks Laich
I’d throw Toews in there—he’s the only other center, along with Sid, that I’d rate above Nicky B.
"Those things happen in sport," McPhee said. "It's not like it's anything chronic."
by bigonetimer on Aug 10, 2010 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Toews is a tough call and a great player, but is he even #1 on Chicago, or is Patrick Kane #1?
Washington Capitals 2009-10 = Quebec Nordiques 1994-95
--- D'ohboy
by MikeL-Pivonka on Aug 10, 2010 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Toews is unquestionably #1.
On the Forecheck: preaching the Predators' gospel to the unwashed masses.
by Chris Burton on Aug 10, 2010 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions
You probably see the Hawks more than I do, CB, so I will agree with you. If the Hawks had both Nick and Toews on the roster they’d be in even deeper weeds in terms of Salary Cap issues it’d be a tough call as to who was #1. In terms of pure playmaker Nick is better, and defensively they are both very good.
Who do you think is the better of the two?
Washington Capitals 2009-10 = Quebec Nordiques 1994-95
--- D'ohboy
by MikeL-Pivonka on Aug 10, 2010 1:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Damn, thats a tough question. My head says Nick, heart says Toews.
You can’t go wrong with either one, and it depends on the players around them.
If forced to choose, today I’ll take Toews.
On the Forecheck: preaching the Predators' gospel to the unwashed masses.
by Chris Burton on Aug 10, 2010 1:04 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree its tough… I’d take either on my team, and hey… one of them is on mine. :D
Washington Capitals 2009-10 = Quebec Nordiques 1994-95
--- D'ohboy
by MikeL-Pivonka on Aug 10, 2010 1:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Neither. It’s Duncan Keith and it’s not all that close.
'Cause the end of what it was is what it is right now...
by D'ohboy on Aug 10, 2010 1:05 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Whoa. I’d certainly agree with that in regards to before Kane, but not Toews.
Interesting.
On the Forecheck: preaching the Predators' gospel to the unwashed masses.
by Chris Burton on Aug 10, 2010 1:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Keith’s a great player, but is he more valuable to the Hawks than Toews? Tough call… These are all tough calls.
Washington Capitals 2009-10 = Quebec Nordiques 1994-95
--- D'ohboy
by MikeL-Pivonka on Aug 10, 2010 1:07 PM EDT up reply actions
According to GVT, it’s Keith, Kane, then Toews, 1,2,3.
Still, I’d personally put Keith first, Toews second and Kane third. Toews was outstanding in the playoffs, and the Blackhawks weren’t all that tight defensively in the finals, but I’m not one to judge overall value from a handful of games.
'Cause the end of what it was is what it is right now...
Ok, ok, I surrender… If Nick was a Blackhawk, he wouldn’t be #1 on their list…
Of course, he might also be a Thrasher… ;-)
Washington Capitals 2009-10 = Quebec Nordiques 1994-95
--- D'ohboy
by MikeL-Pivonka on Aug 10, 2010 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
Of course, he might also be a Thrasher… ;-)
Awesome.
'Cause the end of what it was is what it is right now...
Thank you…. ;-)
Washington Capitals 2009-10 = Quebec Nordiques 1994-95
--- D'ohboy
by MikeL-Pivonka on Aug 10, 2010 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions
D’ohboy with the answer. Even if they all made the same money, it’s Keith. Add that Keith has a lower cap hit and it’s not even close.
Only YOU can prevent idiots from commenting!
by Knee high to a duck on Aug 10, 2010 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions
I like Kane—one of the nastiest backhands in the game, but Toews is the whole package at center. Nick is a better playmaker but I’ll give the edge to JT for pure goal scoring for now, and I would say he’s a step above Nick defensively (obviously in the dot) too.
"Those things happen in sport," McPhee said. "It's not like it's anything chronic."
Nick is a better playmaker but I’ll give the edge to JT for pure goal scoring for now,
Okay this is where I draw the line. Toews is a great player and very young still, but he’s never cracked 30 goals in a year, and has 4 even strength goals in 40 playoff games. Nick had 5 even strength goals just against Montreal.
Burn me at the stake but Sharp was the best center on that team in the playoffs and they wouldn’t have won without him.
Sharp wasn’t playing against the other team’s top line or top defenders most shifts. 2nd and 3rd liners often are the stars in the playoffs because the 1st line guys are getting locked down by the other team’s top defenders. Don’t get me wrong I like Sharp, but I think that is an unfair comparison.
"You ever use smelling salts, every time you type a bad blog?" Brooks Laich
No doubt. But that’s my point exactly Towes ins’t an elite scorer. He might still be but he’s not, because he doesn’t score a ton of goals 5 on 5, PP was fantastic but not 5 on 5. His linemate Kane had 8 goals 5 on 5 this year.
I’m not hating on Towes but he’s not an elite offensive player, not yet, Backstrom is.
Based on Tools+
Using DMG’s 5 tools, plus my own additions, to justify my vote:
Skating=8
Puck Skills=19
Shot=8
Physical Game=8
Hockey Sense=19
Defensive Ability/PK=19
Contract=19
Leadership=8
Organization Position Depth=19
It’s Nicky by a nose.
"Hockey is my life, wine is my passion." -- Igor Larionov
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