Thursday Caps Clips
by J.P. on Jul 29, 2010 6:35 AM EDT
in Caps Clips
672 comments
Your savory breakfast links:
- Coverage of and opinions on last evening's Stefan Della Rovere for D.J. King trade. [CI, RMNB, OFB, PHT, SB Nation DC, Hockey Independent, Hockey Chronicles, RtR, Flashy Glove Save, DC Landing Strip, STLToday, Caps Snaps]
- Is Tomas Fleischmann's new deal a... bargain? [Peerless]
- Which will happen first in 2010-11: Nicklas Backstrom gets his 11th assist of the season or Mike Knuble plays in his 11th game of the campaign? [RtR]
- Ten things to look forward to at the Winter Classic. [View From My Seats]
- Speculating on and critiquing possible January 1 uniforms. [a capital wasteland]
- Some perspective on Douchegate... [Puck Daddy]
- ... which the Caps' owner addressed rather succinctly. [National Post, SB Nation DC]
- Heck, even Eric Belanger chimed in. [CKAC via Google Translate]
- More fodder for the "Ovie wuz robbed!" folks (of which I'm one). [Puck Stops Here]
- Cruisin' with King Karl (but hopefully he's done doing that whole D.C.-to-Hershey drive). [Caps365 (video)]
- "Unleash the Fury" live? Yep. Catch it this weekend... and maybe next season. [DCist]
- Ovechkin vs. Cros... oh, sorry, I dozed off there for a minute. [IIHF]
- John Carlson gives blood. Anyone need a pint of Real American Hero? [CSN Washington]
- Fresh off Development Camp, Bob Woods is coaching up even younger kids up in Utica. [WKTV]
- Boyd Kane and Dylan Yeo are returning to Hershey for 2010-11. [Bears]
- Speaking of the Bears, they were awfully hot throughout last season. Some might even say they were nuclear. [OFB]
- Time's running out for you to snag $20 worth of food and drink for only $10 at RFD. [SB Nation Team Pick (commercial deal)]
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I’m honored my blog made your Clips today, JP!
A Capital Wasteland - art & hockey from Washington, D.C.
OFB’s column on the King trade could be the most excruciating column in the history of the internet.
Money don't make my world go round...i'm reaching out to a higher ground
Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Jul 29, 2010 7:41 AM EDT reply actions
1,200 words summed up in a GIF
And I thought Tom Soehn was a shitty coach.
by Bald Pollack on Jul 29, 2010 7:44 AM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
Dude…ick
Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?
by fat_daddyo on Jul 29, 2010 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
rec’d
Because now I can justify browsing and commenting during the work day with the argument that I am promoting my business.
by Sombrero Guy on Jul 29, 2010 12:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Sadly, that makes me want to read it more.
"Do not be afraid to ask for credit, for our way of refusing is very polite."
by Laich It Or Lump It on Jul 29, 2010 7:44 AM EDT up reply actions
Seriously…I couldn’t tell if it was for real, because it pretty much includes every “wE needz a tough guyzz!!” meme there is.
Money don't make my world go round...i'm reaching out to a higher ground
Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Jul 29, 2010 7:48 AM EDT up reply actions
The funny part in that 1,200 word post is that the team has still lost two of three playoff series with Donald Brashear in the lineup.
And I thought Tom Soehn was a shitty coach.
by Bald Pollack on Jul 29, 2010 7:52 AM EDT up reply actions
Exactly. The entire time I was reading the article I was thinking, “does he realize that Donald Brashear was on this team just two seasons ago?” He acts like D.J. King is ushering in a new era of Capitals hockey.
"Do not be afraid to ask for credit, for our way of refusing is very polite."
by Laich It Or Lump It on Jul 29, 2010 7:56 AM EDT up reply actions
Not to mention
The cold hard truth is that only one Capitals’ club has ever advanced to a Stanley Cup finals, and among the regular skaters on that roster were the likes of Mark Tinordi, Brendan Witt, Joe Reekie, Craig Berube, Chris Simon, and Dale Hunter. Not a coincidence, I’d submit. Yes that club caught breaks that postseason, but indisputably they were tough to play against in the only season that counts.
That club was swept in 4 games by Detroit.
Further
I also never believed that George McPhee the manager who recently cited the Detroit Red Wings as evidence that hockey had moved beyond old-style enforcement (the same Wings who employed Brad May last year) experienced some epiphany uprooting him from the very style he played in the NHL. Rather, enforcers who can actually skate and play a bit are a rare commodity today, neither produced in Europe to any degree nor much available in a modern Entry Draft (which explains the buzz that Dylan McIlrath attracted last month in Los Angeles). McPhee simply couldn’t tout a commodity he didn’t possess.
Part of hockey’s healthy evolution over the past decade has included the elimination of the shiftless knucklehead in Bauers. That’s a good thing. But because our game no longer tolerates tacking in the neutral zone, or players crawling up over plexiglass and fighting fans, it doesn’t follow that a legacy component of the game — something in its very DNA — should be eradicated as well.
But there was simply no way George McPhee was going to dispatch his fineese club to Madison Square Garden this season to face the Rags and their new Boogeyman and have Matt Bradley police the evening, I don’t believe. That would have been a slaughter wish.
Holy contradiction Batman.
Money don't make my world go round...i'm reaching out to a higher ground
Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Jul 29, 2010 7:57 AM EDT up reply actions
Lots of things going on in that 1,200 word post.
And I thought Tom Soehn was a shitty coach.
by Bald Pollack on Jul 29, 2010 7:59 AM EDT up reply actions
By my count, it’s only 1,165 words.
"Do not be afraid to ask for credit, for our way of refusing is very polite."
by Laich It Or Lump It on Jul 29, 2010 8:02 AM EDT up reply actions
Hey, don’t give me away for the larger point.
And I thought Tom Soehn was a shitty coach.
by Bald Pollack on Jul 29, 2010 8:07 AM EDT up reply actions
Still reading you loud and clear.
"Do not be afraid to ask for credit, for our way of refusing is very polite."
by Laich It Or Lump It on Jul 29, 2010 8:14 AM EDT up reply actions
And, for my last point, i’d like to bring this up
"Please, the guy [Koci] has one goal in six years. He couldn’t play in the American League. I’ve faced David Koci a lot. He might be a nice guy — I have no idea. I’m glad he’s making a living. Let’s be honest if this was any [other] game he gets on the ice in the first three minutes, gets into his fight and then he sits at the end of the bench, so what good is he?
It shows what we have to get rid of to have a good game. The guys that are sitting at the end of the bench and they come out and hit a guy for the sake of ’I’ve got to run around like an idiot or I’ll never play again’ — those are the guys we’ve got to get rid of."
Money don't make my world go round...i'm reaching out to a higher ground
Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Jul 29, 2010 8:03 AM EDT up reply actions
I have to ask, and don’t kick me … is this article really worth the effort and pixels being devoted to rip it apart?
Hanlon's Razor: Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.
Yeah…I mean, I’m done with bashing it, but I just needed a forum to respond to it
Money don't make my world go round...i'm reaching out to a higher ground
Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Jul 29, 2010 9:14 AM EDT up reply actions
,,,,
You perhaps knew me better as "Your Nation's Capital." Same great commentary, now with 100% more transparency!
So the answer to that is a guy who plays 6 minutes a night and spends most of his time as a HS? How would that have prevented Koci from running Green?
Money don't make my world go round...i'm reaching out to a higher ground
Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Jul 29, 2010 9:14 AM EDT up reply actions
It wouldn’t. Enforcers don’t work as deterrents. But they do work as on-going concerns for opposing players during their mutual shifts, so there is a benefit, albeit minor.
And if DJ King takes an instigator or two early on when guys get liberal with our guys, it’ll send the right message going forward.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
Holy crap, that was the most contradictory comment ever.
I mean that some guys (read: Koci) are gonna do what they’re gonna do, but having a willing enforcer there may deter others.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
And if DJ King takes an instigator or two early on when guys get liberal with our guys, it’ll send the right message going forward.
By putting our 25th ranked PK on the ice more often?
Money don't make my world go round...i'm reaching out to a higher ground
Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Jul 29, 2010 9:18 AM EDT up reply actions
Yes. Because a regular season game or two can be sacrificed if, for example, they send the message to the Nate Thompsons of the world not to go after Mike Green’s knee.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
(still think there was very little malice in that)
Why wouldn't you play Perreault? He's a really talented young player.
I still don’t think it stops Mike Duco from jumping Alexandre Giroux.
Money don't make my world go round...i'm reaching out to a higher ground
Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Jul 29, 2010 9:29 AM EDT up reply actions
Agreed, but at least DJ can play the game a little, too.
Why wouldn't you play Perreault? He's a really talented young player.
The think I like about DJ most is his cap hit. I don’t mind paying 600K for a guy that is going to get a handful of minutes and/or HS every night. The guys I am totally opposed to are the ones that get paid 1 mill+.
We’ll watch King all season and at the end of it I doubt it makes much of a difference one way or another. He’s not going to tie GMGM’s hands and he’s not going to get Carcillo to lower his.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
by Fehr and Balanced on Jul 29, 2010 10:42 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, all 6 and a half games he’s averaged the past two seasons due to injury. So basically I have to make it our opening game versus the Devils to see him before DJ breaks his hand in a fight again and is out the rest of the season?
"Baseball was my first love... hockey is a sultry temptress and stole my heart." - Corey Masisak
Probably want to make sure you see the pre-game warmups. Just in case.
You perhaps knew me better as "Your Nation's Capital." Same great commentary, now with 100% more transparency!
Good call – I’m usually at CalTort chowing down. I guess I’ll just have to settle for rat-infested Verizon Center food instead so I don’t miss our new “King’s” annual performance ;o)
"Baseball was my first love... hockey is a sultry temptress and stole my heart." - Corey Masisak
Like I said, some guys are gonna do what they’re gonna do because that’s the only way they get to or stay in the NHL. But others will think twice. There’s no way that dressing King doesn’t provide the Caps with a bit more flexibility in how to play the game on certain nights as events warrant.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
Also don't forget that at it's core hockey is a form of professional entertainment
I feel JP’s points are all solid, even though I hate goons and want them out of the league. But much to my chagrin, hockey’s a business at its core and as much as I though Brash was a talentless wash-up of an athlete, I’d be lying through my teeth if I didn’t stand up and cheer every time he dropped the gloves.
"Baseball was my first love... hockey is a sultry temptress and stole my heart." - Corey Masisak
Perhaps. But I think the point is still valid – there are other examples.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
Copper and Blue has something to say about it.
Hanlon's Razor: Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.
Yeah, I saw that. Great look at the actual on-ice, by-the-numbers contributions goons make, though I’d imagine the Pugilists’ Union would argue that their membership makes contributions that aren’t so readily measured… such as keeping stars in the lineup. As you noted above (or below), maybe having a King in the lineup dissuades Boll/Chimera from taking AO out for six games. Obviously there’s value in that that isn’t measured by C&B’s number crunching.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
Certainly. The number crunching is awesome but I think there’s an energy component that isn’t as easy to put into numbers. Numbers are awesome, and certainly JR does an awesome job with them and at appreciating them, but I think there’s more to the story in the case of a goon.
For some things, goons are gonna do what they’re gonna do, like you noted. But in that case, since it started with Ovi getting speared on the bench IIRC, does that incident happen at all if King is the one to go over the boards and “address the problem” and not AO?
Hanlon's Razor: Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.
Further to the point, I can see how a team desperate for every point in the regular season standings might not be wise to spend a roster spot on a guy whose presence might actually cost the team. But for a team like the Caps – who can sacrifice a win or two for the sake of the intangibles one such player brings – it’s not as tough a decision.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
And that was the problem I had with the analysis. You can’t judge whether a signing makes sense for any given team solely on the basis of numbers. The player has to fill a need as well. The Rags and Flyers – why did they do that? The Caps you can see why they did it – they can trade a win or two in the regular season for an insurance policy on the stars, and that’s what they likely have done.
Hanlon's Razor: Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.
I want 23 players healthy and ready to go in April, not having to suffer the liberties that some players on other teams might take with them that injure them or wear them down over a season. If King can contribute to that and never play a minute in the post-season, but the Caps have a fresher squad that can win a Cup, he’ll have earned his engraving.
If you've read this far...seek help.
by ThePeerless on Jul 29, 2010 10:27 AM EDT up reply actions
I like number crunching as much as the next person, but there is a saying one learns early on in data analysis. “Maslow’s Hammer” — When you learn to use a hammer, every problem looks like a nail.
If you've read this far...seek help.
by ThePeerless on Jul 29, 2010 10:31 AM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
“But I also [hope to be] more than just that, is what the [Capitals] want. And that’s what I expect out of myself. I always come to the rink every day trying to get better. Because the game is not just about fighting no more. You have to get in there on the forecheck and be a physical presence. They see me as someone who can play the game and be a force out there, not only by dropping the gloves.”
We played Brashear 8 minutes a night and King is faster and better. He’ll get time to be an enforcer in more ways than one – he can drop the gloves and he can be a forechecking presence, just like Brash was at times.
That’s the thing that is getting glossed over a little (I think). Sure, he can punch, but if he proves to be a viable asset on the 4th line, it’s playing with house money.
And I thought Tom Soehn was a shitty coach.
by Bald Pollack on Jul 29, 2010 9:29 AM EDT up reply actions
Exactly. And to be honest I’m just happy if Matt Bradley’s face stays in one piece. Like it or not fighting is part of the game, and if King is around to take on the guys Brads has had to tangle with, all the better. We need Bradley out there to do what he does best – not sitting in the box for 5 minutes or worse, on the shelf indefinitely with a concussion.
Seriously. Imagine how much more offense he could produce if he wasn’t playing Enforcer Lite all the time. Paper Face needs to chase goals, not goons! I’m calling it: he’ll pick up 15+ next year.
"Baseball was my first love... hockey is a sultry temptress and stole my heart." - Corey Masisak
I’ll take that bet; Brads doesn’t sniff 15 next year.
Care to make a friendly wager on it?
Only YOU can prevent idiots from commenting!
by Knee high to a duck on Jul 29, 2010 6:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Witness?
And I thought Tom Soehn was a shitty coach.
by Bald Pollack on Jul 29, 2010 6:41 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t understand.
Only YOU can prevent idiots from commenting!
by Knee high to a duck on Jul 29, 2010 7:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Since I can’t get in on the action, witness for a cut of the bet (old George Constanza move).
And I thought Tom Soehn was a shitty coach.
by Bald Pollack on Jul 29, 2010 9:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Much as I’d like to, since I completely agree with you.
And I thought Tom Soehn was a shitty coach.
by Bald Pollack on Jul 29, 2010 9:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Enforcers don’t work as deterrents.
This was the point I tried to get across yesterday. This team didn’t need an enforcer last year and they don’t this year. This enforcer message stuff makes my want to hurl. 90% of the time all an enforcer does is get on the ice ice and fight another enforcer or tough guy. That sends what message exactly?
"You ever use smelling salts, every time you type a bad blog?" Brooks Laich
What’s the other 10% of the time?
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
Playing cards in the locker room with Bobby Bonilla and Rickey Henderson
Money don't make my world go round...i'm reaching out to a higher ground
Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Jul 29, 2010 10:45 AM EDT up reply actions
It barely gets noticed.
I watched a team like the Yotes last year with an enforcer have just as many liberties get taken, if not more, than I did with the Caps. I saw Prucha’s head almost get taken off. I saw several guys go after Doan’s knees. Hockey’s favorite ex-twitterer did nothing to scare other teams from doing what they are going to do.
"You ever use smelling salts, every time you type a bad blog?" Brooks Laich
Prucha was probably at fault. From what I saw when he was in NYR he is absolutely terrible at defending himself.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
by Fehr and Balanced on Jul 29, 2010 10:58 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
the deterrent is that we have a guy who can run your guy if you run our guy. very machiavellian. so if you’re boogaard and you want to take liberties with green or semin you may want to think twice because our guy may run gaborik. then again, if you are boogaard, thinking might be out of the question.
Just trying to capture the spirit of the thing...
by dcsportsfan1 on Jul 29, 2010 9:21 AM EDT up reply actions
The cold hard truth is that only one Capitals’ club has ever advanced to a Stanley Cup finals, and among the regular skaters on that roster were the likes of Mark Tinordi, Brendan Witt, Joe Reekie, Craig Berube, Chris Simon, and Dale Hunter. Not a coincidence, I’d submit. Yes that club caught breaks that postseason, but indisputably they were tough to play against in the only season that counts.
The issue I take with that statement is that the guys he named (even Berube, to an extent) could all play hockey. It’s hard to envision, given the Caps’ current roster, a D.J. King getting a sweater for a playoff game. I don’t dislike the deal at all, but it’s a much more regular-season-focused deal, in my mind, than anything done with an eye towards a playoff lineup.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
Exactly. DJ King isn’t gonna do a damn thing for “the only season that counts”, and I’m not sure he does much for the regular season besides make the red meat crowd wet.
Release the Mackan!
by Killer_Carlson on Jul 29, 2010 12:09 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Who was the goon on the Blackhawks this year? Pitt and Detroit the years prior? (And I don’t count Cooke, he’s more of a jerk than a goon). The years before that?
I’m not being sarcastic, if there is a list, someone please put it up.
I understand the line of logic that a goon during the season might deter a few hits and make for a healthier team in the offseason, but all this “You need a goon to win a Cup nonsense” is killing me (which is more an OFB/NHL GM thing than what anyone here is advocating).
"Because the game is not just about fighting no more. " D.J. King
by bigeugene on Jul 29, 2010 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I should note that I’m pretty indifferent to this trade, personally. I hope DJ works out the way they hoped.
"Because the game is not just about fighting no more. " D.J. King
I don’t think you need a goon to win a Cup at all.But this trade won’t hurt the Caps to any real degree and might help them out a little.
Hanlon's Razor: Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.
I would agree more enthusiastically if it was a two-way contract and we could bury him in the Bears once GM GM realizes he doesn’t provide any value. Then again, maybe placing him on waivers and getting poached wouldn’t be such a bad thing, come next spring…
"Baseball was my first love... hockey is a sultry temptress and stole my heart." - Corey Masisak
Pedant alert
A two-way contract does not have any bearing on the “assignability” of a guy to the AHL. It just means that the guy gets one salary when on the NHL roster and another (lower) salary when in the AHL. Just the opposite with a one-way salary: the guy gets the same pay in Hershey or in DC.
I’m no expert on the waiver process, so I’m taking it on faith that King would have to go through waivers (and be exposed to claims) if the club wanted to assign him to Hershey.
Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?
That’s what I’m saying… that could be a good thing. If he doesn’t work out in DC, send him down (which puts him on the waiver wire since he has a one-way contract). Then, hopefully someone else takes a chance on him. It seems like a bad move by us, but it’s almost like an escape clause. We couldn’t do it if he had a standard lesser-talented two-way contract players of his caliber normally command.
Regardless, this is all a little premature and pessimistic. Hopefully he works out and accomplishes whatever it is he’s been traded for. Gonna miss seeing Della Rovere in a Caps sweater a bit down the road though… he was fun to watch at Dev Camp.
"Baseball was my first love... hockey is a sultry temptress and stole my heart." - Corey Masisak
I wouldn’t call any of the Blackhawks “goons”, but Ben Eager was the closest thing to one. He’s way more skilled than a traditional goon.
Pitt’s had Eric Godard for last two seasons, but I don’t think he ever suited up for a playoff game.
Yeah, the goon/Cup logic is idiotic. But I like this move for the regular season benefit. The Caps displayed brief stretches of the ol’ team toughness method last season, but the regular season is simply too long. It is too filled with meaningless game situations against teams that often have nothing better to do than get in our stars’ faces. And with a team like the Caps, whose disposition frequently takes on the persona of room temperature butter, DJ King is a welcomed addition in my opinion.
Whoa there. That would require a subtle understanding.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
by Fehr and Balanced on Jul 29, 2010 10:39 AM EDT up reply actions
Nah, I’ve read a few that are worse, but I still want back the minute of my life I spent reading it before deciding “this is stupid” and closing the tab.
Hanlon's Razor: Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.
The fact that OFB (apparently) loves this trade, and that column was written about it, makes me hate the trade already.
Money don't make my world go round...i'm reaching out to a higher ground
Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Jul 29, 2010 7:58 AM EDT up reply actions
I’m firmly in the “not sure but keeping an open mind” camp. Do we really need an enforcer? Probably not, but I think this club can spare a roster spot for a little protection, especially at $650K. He’ll likely be in the press box a lot of nights, and will get a sweater when the Caps need to be able to throw down if it comes to that.
Although one thought did come to me in the shower: does the incident between Chimera, Boll, and Ovechkin last season happen if King is dressed in red? You know, the one that had Ovi out six games with a shoulder injury? If not, that trade is worth it, right there.
Hanlon's Razor: Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.
Here is a way to look at that. Alex Ovechkin’s cap hit is $116,322 a game. He missed six games with that injury. That’s about $698,000 in lost time. If, in fact, King does provide that sort of protection, he’s paid for.
If you've read this far...seek help.
He’ll likely be in the press box a lot of nights
That’s just it though. He is not a deterrent if he is in the press box. One can argue the merits of his deterrence if he is actually in the lineup, but an enforcer is 100% ineffective otherwise. So would he have prevented the incident in Columbus? Maybe… if he even dressed for that game.
"Do not be afraid to ask for credit, for our way of refusing is very polite."
by Laich It Or Lump It on Jul 29, 2010 8:11 AM EDT up reply actions
Dunno ‘zackly how coaches do this, but my guess is he dresses for a lot of games against teams we only play once, and for teams who we meet more than once, the other team will know that if ’something’ happens, he will certainly dress the very next game.
Bruce keeps lists … and grudges. He remembers exactly who ran who and when.
You perhaps knew me better as "Your Nation's Capital." Same great commentary, now with 100% more transparency!
And even then he probably would have had to be on the ice with AO. Hitchcock explicitly said their plan was to go after AO. Does anyone think that won’t be the plan anymore?
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
by Fehr and Balanced on Jul 29, 2010 10:47 AM EDT up reply actions
If there’s a guy on the other bench who might go right after Rick Nash? Sure. Mutually assured destruction isn’t necessarily a gameplan.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
I guess. I just don’t think that’s how NHL coaches operate. They are going to identify the biggest threat on the other team, which is AO, and then do whatever they can to stop it.
We’ve talked about the “eye for an eye” strategy and going after the other teams’ stars, but how much do you really see that with any team?
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
by Fehr and Balanced on Jul 29, 2010 10:52 AM EDT up reply actions
We’ve talked about the "eye for an eye" strategy and going after the other teams’ stars, but how much do you really see that with any team?
St. Louis does it, that I know for sure. Jackman, King, Polak, and Janssen were incessantly after Hornqvist, Sullivan, and Suter last year. Jackman literally swung his stick like a baseball bat and hit Suter in the helmet once.
On the Forecheck: preaching the Predators' gospel to the unwashed masses.
by Chris Burton on Jul 29, 2010 10:54 AM EDT up reply actions
And the Blues got exactly what they deserved for playing a stupid brand of hockey that only worked when Clarence Campbell was around. They were all playing golf in April.
"You ever use smelling salts, every time you type a bad blog?" Brooks Laich
That’s a lot of enforcers, though, and a young team that wasn’t ready for the playoffs. They didn’t miss the postseason just because they played that brand of hockey – and the Caps getting one guy who will play occasionally isn’t going to make them miss the playoffs, either.
At worst it has no impact whatsoever, and it’s a cheap price to pay for a roster filler; at best it keeps the other teams on their toes a bit, allows our middleweight guys to focus on hockey and not defending each others’ honor and keeps them better rested (and less injured). There’s no real downside here.
by Becca H on Jul 29, 2010 10:59 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
There’s no real downside here.
Short term I’d agree. Though I’d feel better if King had a two way deal. Long term the jury will be out for another 3-4 years.
"You ever use smelling salts, every time you type a bad blog?" Brooks Laich
Why do you care what his AHL salary is?
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
I wanted it more likely that if the Caps sign a guy like this that they’d send him to the minors.
"You ever use smelling salts, every time you type a bad blog?" Brooks Laich
Fair enough. But a guy who can scrap like he can at his price might not make it through waivers – certainly not re-entry – so get used to seeing him in the press box at VC.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
Right, and at 600K that doesn’t really matter. It’s not enough to stop us from acquiring whatever we need to acquire, though we may have to let Chris Smith go.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
by Fehr and Balanced on Jul 29, 2010 11:07 AM EDT up reply actions
Yep. I get so sick of the notion that toughness = wins, or some variation thereof.
On the Forecheck: preaching the Predators' gospel to the unwashed masses.
by Chris Burton on Jul 29, 2010 11:00 AM EDT up reply actions
And the funny part is STL doesn’t even need enforcers like some other teams. When Backes and Oshie are the core of your skill guys you always have someone out there that can handle himself with the mitts off.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
by Fehr and Balanced on Jul 29, 2010 11:01 AM EDT up reply actions
Yep. Backes is pretty badass in his own right.
On the Forecheck: preaching the Predators' gospel to the unwashed masses.
by Chris Burton on Jul 29, 2010 11:06 AM EDT up reply actions
But was that “eye for an eye” because NSH was attacking the STL studs? I don’t think so. That’s just STL’s game plan.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
by Fehr and Balanced on Jul 29, 2010 10:57 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, true, I overlooked that part of your comment. The Preds cut down on the funny business a shitload last year, it was weird.
On the Forecheck: preaching the Predators' gospel to the unwashed masses.
by Chris Burton on Jul 29, 2010 11:00 AM EDT up reply actions
Not enough.
You know I don’t buy into the deterrent effect of enforcers as much as some others do. But I ain’t gonna lie – I feel better with King in the lineup vs. PHI or NYR than I do with Quintin Laing.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
by J.P. on Jul 29, 2010 10:54 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Plus it’s less about the Caps going after their guys or their guys going after the Caps – it seems to me like it’s about them NOT going after the Caps (and vice versa).
It’s hard to measure the impact of a guy like this because it’s not always what happens but what doesn’t happen because of him. But it’ll be interesting to see if guys really do target Ovie or Green or Semin as much as they have in the past now that a legit enforcer is back in town.
one needs to only look back a few years the game in the garden when brash got tossed after fighting orr (was that the game he fought shanny too?). anyway, took about three seconds after brash was off the ice for orr to run at ov.
thankfully, there are but a handful of teams where this type of shenanigans are bound to occur, we happen to play them more than a couple of times this year…
Just trying to capture the spirit of the thing...
by dcsportsfan1 on Jul 29, 2010 11:02 AM EDT up reply actions
Exactly. Orr, Boogaard, Shelley, Cote, to a lesser extent Carcillo and Downie, these are the guys the Caps are facing on a regular basis this year. And don’t forget guys like Eager, who is now in Atlanta.
Is awesome at faceoffs.
On the Forecheck: preaching the Predators' gospel to the unwashed masses.
by Chris Burton on Jul 29, 2010 11:48 AM EDT up reply actions
If King can go on the ice with the 4th line in the waning minutes of a game that is over, and prevent this, then he’s worth every penny.
That made me sick to watch.
Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?
Not me. I saw Steckel squaring off with Konopka and I thought, aw, Stecks, please turtle quickly.
A guy like Steckel doesn’t need to drop them with Konopka.
Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?
Then they won fourteen in a row.
You perhaps knew me better as "Your Nation's Capital." Same great commentary, now with 100% more transparency!
Konopka is now on the Isles BTW.
Money don't make my world go round...i'm reaching out to a higher ground
Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Jul 29, 2010 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Get Crosby and Valabik on the phone!
Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?
by fat_daddyo on Jul 29, 2010 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
it’s less about the Caps going after their guys or their guys going after the Caps – it seems to me like it’s about them NOT going after the Caps (and vice versa).
Personally, I’m hoping that maybe knowing there’s an enforcer on the team will make it so a certain skilled player won’t feel like it’s up to him all the time to go after someone after they got his teammate. Especially if the league has pegged that certain skilled player recently with a couple of suspensions so they’re monitoring all his hits a little too closely now.
"HISTORY DOESN’T MATTER!!! .... Who cares if it’s never been done? We aren’t those teams who failed before. We are in control of our own destiny, and we will make it happen our own way.." - A Gordon, June 2010
by bagace on Jul 29, 2010 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
I agree with you, and as I’ve said I don’t really hate this trade; time will tell if it’s a trade to affirmatively like, though. If we are going to bring in a guy whose best skill set is his right cross then I’m glad it’s a guy that can skate and only collects 600K.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
by Fehr and Balanced on Jul 29, 2010 10:58 AM EDT up reply actions
Agreed. Very low-risk, low-to-medium reward, at least over the next two seasons or so.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
Look at the trade in context. It’s a $637,500 insurance policy on a $55 million roster. And while the Caps have skill players in spades, they do not have this kind of player. He might get 50 games at eight minutes a night, but this move neither breaks the bank, keeps a prospect in Hershey (despite the Steve Pinizzotto fans), or move another player of consequence off the roster or to the press box. What is the problem here?
If you've read this far...seek help.
by ThePeerless on Jul 29, 2010 8:06 AM EDT up reply actions 8 recs
This is the kind of explanation and reasoning that should calm everyone down. I, for one, appreciate it.
"It's always good to have vikings."
Proud member of the Oxford dictionary police.
If you look at “The Plan” in the way the Caps rebuilt their roster, one thing they have done with little exception to the rule is draft for skill and acquire other role players by other means. Erskine, Bradley, Chimera, and even Mike Knuble did not come through the Caps system. This move is firmly within and consistent with that theory of roster building.
If you've read this far...seek help.
Exactly, I think we had an exchange to that effect back during the draft when you noted that the Caps seemed to target as much pure skill as they could with each pick.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
by Fehr and Balanced on Jul 29, 2010 10:48 AM EDT up reply actions
The second part of the “calm down” reasoning is that Della Rovere was not going to make any impact on this roster in the next two seasons. None. So they’ve added something they didn’t have, which at worst is a wash and at best, provides that protection Peerless referenced.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
This explains how I feel about the trade. Prospect with questionable NHL future for guy with similar skillset who can and will play in the NHL this year, for cheap. Seems ok to me.
Why wouldn't you play Perreault? He's a really talented young player.
Unless you purchased an SDR practice jersey and drove up to Barrie, Ontario to see him play. (poor Ovechwin)
"Do not be afraid to ask for credit, for our way of refusing is very polite."
by Laich It Or Lump It on Jul 29, 2010 8:27 AM EDT up reply actions
Poor Braden Holtby. He and Delly were BFF in Hershey. Now they are long distance besties.
You perhaps knew me better as "Your Nation's Capital." Same great commentary, now with 100% more transparency!
Buffalo fire fighters?
A danger to myself and others on the ice
by can't skate on Jul 29, 2010 10:59 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
We all go through this, and it sucks. I have Sami Lepisto and Viktor Kozlov jerseys, for example.
Why wouldn't you play Perreault? He's a really talented young player.
This just proves how old school and legit I am. Or something.
Twitter!!!1
Reppin' Team Tyler yo.
by Ovechwin on Jul 29, 2010 8:54 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
O.G.
You perhaps knew me better as "Your Nation's Capital." Same great commentary, now with 100% more transparency!
You and DP can have a “departed prospects party” and he can wear his Casavant jersey.
Why wouldn't you play Perreault? He's a really talented young player.
Interesting thing, this. Here is a selection of prospects the Caps have traded…
Tim Kennedy (6th round 2005) traded to Buffalo for a 6th in 2006, which became Mathieu Perreault
Oskar Osala (4th round 2006) traded to Carolina for Joe Corvo
Ted Ruth (2nd round 2007) to Columbus for Sergei Fedorov
Stefan Della Rovere (7th round 2008) to St. Louis for D.J. King
Somewhat mixed success.
If you've read this far...seek help.
by ThePeerless on Jul 29, 2010 10:47 AM EDT up reply actions
Mixed?
I’d say the Caps pretty much win that list in a landslide. I guess if Ruth, SDR and/or Osala become something then it might change but right now it really looks good for the Caps.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
by Fehr and Balanced on Jul 29, 2010 10:50 AM EDT up reply actions
It’s the Ruth trade that gives them an advantage. One is a draw (Osala, who might have had trouble cracking this lineup, for a player no longer here), and the SDR/BJK trade is way too early to evaluate
If you've read this far...seek help.
by ThePeerless on Jul 29, 2010 10:53 AM EDT up reply actions
SDR/BJK is way too early, for sure.
Kennedy for MP is probably early, though Kennedy has at least proven to be an NHL player.
I still think Osala for Corvo was a good trade despite Corvo’s underwhelming play. Osala couldn’t get off the 4th line in HER and then couldn’t stick with a CAR team battling for a top-5 pick. I think the fact that Osala’s skating is going to keep him out of the NHL and that GMGM was able to address a need (even if it didn’t work out) makes it a good trade. When you can move a marginal player for a player that is legitimately an NHL player in a position of need, it’s a win.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
by Fehr and Balanced on Jul 29, 2010 10:55 AM EDT up reply actions
We will miss the draft pick more than we will miss Osala.
You perhaps knew me better as "Your Nation's Capital." Same great commentary, now with 100% more transparency!
Agreed.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
by Fehr and Balanced on Jul 29, 2010 10:59 AM EDT up reply actions
I’d suggest it’s a photo finish with the way this team drafts.
And I thought Tom Soehn was a shitty coach.
by Bald Pollack on Jul 29, 2010 10:59 AM EDT up reply actions
True, especially in the second round.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
by Fehr and Balanced on Jul 29, 2010 11:00 AM EDT up reply actions
Maybe, for now. Neuvirth is going to take that mantle soon enough.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
by Fehr and Balanced on Jul 29, 2010 11:00 AM EDT up reply actions
Don’t forget Lepisto for a fifth round pick in 2010. This trade definitely weights the balance back towards more mixed results.
Well, who did that 5th rounder become?
Hanlon's Razor: Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.
Thanks. Again, far too early to tell.
Hanlon's Razor: Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.
But with Delly they have a much better idea of where he is and is going than they did with Kennedy (drafted and traded same day, I believe) or Ruth. Jury still very much out on Osala.
So the only loser (i.e. prospect given up who turned into something) so far there is Kennedy, who was still largely unknown.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
And we got MP as a result so we may have ended up with an NHL player anyway.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
by Fehr and Balanced on Jul 29, 2010 10:56 AM EDT up reply actions
Right, but that was somewhat lucky – trading a future NHLer for a 6th round pick is rarely going to work out favorably, so while the pick (MP) was great, the trade was not.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
Right, but given where Kennedy was drafted it wasn’t clear at all that he would become anything, just the same as it wasn’t clear when we took MP or SDR. It was a late round pick for a late round pick. Somehow, both ended up being exceptional late round picks.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
by Fehr and Balanced on Jul 29, 2010 11:00 AM EDT up reply actions
Yup, which was my point on Kennedy vs. Delly – the Caps have had years post-draft to evaluate Delly’s progress, while they had hours on Kennedy.
But Kennedy they’d scouted and obviously spent a pick on with the hope that he’d be an NHLer. And they were right. So they gave up that guy hoping they could find “him” again a year later. And they might have.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
Good point. They obviously saw enough in Kennedy to take him.
Also a good point that SDR had two years of evaluation and especially in this recent D camp didn’t stand out. Looks like your sources were on the money regarding SDR, or at least GMGM agreed that they were on the money.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
by Fehr and Balanced on Jul 29, 2010 11:04 AM EDT up reply actions
I was in Toronto so it wasn’t very inconvenient. We even were free that night. Just to clarify.
Eh, I’m bummed, but its the nature of the business, still don’t think the caps need an enforcer, still think they could eventually use Delly. Maybe they think Kuznetsov can handle the goading of opposing goalies or something.
Twitter!!!1
Reppin' Team Tyler yo.
by Ovechwin on Jul 29, 2010 8:52 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
I still think Bruess can be that “pest” type of player down the road.
Though my “give ’em hell” line in Delly – Eakin – Bruess is gone now. Phooey.
"Imagine if you go see Mrs. Universe, then you end up having Mrs. Iowa. Then you might get those kind of boos." - Miguel Batista
by Steck It Out on Jul 29, 2010 9:00 AM EDT up reply actions
Bruess is a better hockey player than Delly. Less of a pest, but a better hockey player.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
I’ve heard it the other way. Don’t know who to believe at this point.
Twitter!!!1
Reppin' Team Tyler yo.
Believe me. Because I’m right (and informed by people who are also right).
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
by J.P. on Jul 29, 2010 9:14 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Bruess is a better hockey player than Delly. Less of a pest, but a better hockey player.
He looked that way to my uneducated eyes at development camp. The fact that Bruess likes being a pain probably made SDR expendable.
The calming down part was in reference to the acquisition of an enforcer, not trading away Della Rovere.
We get attached to everyone connected with the team around here, but I at least understand that there are only so many roster spots to fill and you have to give in order to get.
"It's always good to have vikings."
Proud member of the Oxford dictionary police.
but this move neither breaks the bank, keeps a prospect in Hershey (despite the Steve Pinizzotto fans), or move another player of consequence off the roster or to the press box.
Not true. First, let me say I like this trade, so I am really just arguing semantics on one of your points — the roster spot — rather than arguing against the merits of the trade.
We traded a non-roster player in SDR for a guy who will be in the lineup more often than not (IMO). So someone who would have otherwise been in the lineup — Perrault, MJohansson, Steckel/Grodon — won’t be. So he WILL take ice time from someone who we currently had “penciled in”. But again, I don’t really have a problem with that so it’s a bit moot.
If he’s dressing, he’s dressing at 4L.
4L last year was either Gordo, Q Laing, Sloan, or Chimera.
Now, if he pushes Gordo or Chimera to the pressbox, it’s a downgrade in utility. But the other guys, not so much.
Plus, there well may be another move forthcoming, because there’s a bit of a logjam at the bottom of the roster at the moment.
Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?
Somebody will get injured two weeks into the season and it won’t be a problem.
Why wouldn't you play Perreault? He's a really talented young player.
But there has also been talk of perhaps working Johansson or Perrault into the lineup at LW if they can’t work out at C. This is BB we’re talking about after all, guys could play pretty much anywhere. My point is, given the roster that we had at this time yesterday, it was safe to assume that Gordon,Steckel, Perrault, and Johansson were going to be fighting over 3 rosters spots. now they are fighting over 2 (2.5 tops). QLaing and Sloan (as a forward) are non-issues, cuz they weren’t slated for the lineup this year anyway.
Here’s its tally sheet: zero Cups won, one playoff series won (barely), zero opponents intimidated. (Ever.)
So if we have never intimidated anyone (Ever) then that means Dale Hunter never intimidated anyone. If Dale Hunter never intimidated anyone, then intimidation is impossible, so why try?
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
by Fehr and Balanced on Jul 29, 2010 10:28 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
I’m sure that they feel we didn’t beat Montreal last year because we weren’t “tough” enough, and not because the PP was putrid.
Money don't make my world go round...i'm reaching out to a higher ground
Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Jul 29, 2010 10:36 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Right. We didn’t clear the crease or punch Cammalleri in the face.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
by Fehr and Balanced on Jul 29, 2010 10:38 AM EDT up reply actions
Well, I would imagine that’s referencing the post-rebuild Caps. But even then you’re talking about teams that skated out Brashear for the fighting end of this and Ovechkin for the, you know, hockey end of things. Does DJ King bring more? Hard to imagine.
by David M. Getz on Jul 29, 2010 11:35 AM EDT up reply actions
King might well bring more than Brash, no? I couldn’t pick King out of a lineup and I knew zero about him before yesterday (and only marginally more now), but he’s younger and cheaper than Brashear was. And when we got him Brash could skate a little bit and forecheck some. From the scuttlebutt I’ve seen, King seems to fit that same bill, with a lot fewer miles on his tires.
Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?
And cheaper on the wallet.
"I’m very happy to hear the news," Ovechkin said when he heard about Backstrom's longterm contract--"because he’s one of the top centers in the world, one of my best friends and we want to play together for a long time. He’s a guy who wants to stay in one place and be comfortable and win, just like me. We talk all the time about playing together, and we talked after the playoffs about how we can win in Washington."
by capsyoungguns on Jul 29, 2010 11:57 AM EDT up reply actions
I would expect him to bring at least as much overall, but in terms of intimidation because of fighting prowess? I’d be surprised.
by David M. Getz on Jul 29, 2010 12:08 PM EDT up reply actions
In just the last two weeks we’ve learned that the head coach and the GM want Big Joe Finley in a Hershey Bears’ sweater this autumn
LOLZ. Actually, guys, the Caps Brass wanted Big Joe Finley in a Caps jersey probably by last autumn. They didn’t use a 2005 First round pick on a guy that might crack the AHL roster in 2010-11.
And if Schultz’ skating is so bad that he can’t be a legitimate NHL D, then what does Finley’s skating qualify as? That’s the single biggest inconsistency those guys have failed to address.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
by Fehr and Balanced on Jul 29, 2010 10:32 AM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
I’ve given up. It’s like trying to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig.
Hanlon's Razor: Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.
by gotsparkly on Jul 29, 2010 11:17 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Shorter OFB:
ThE Capitalz will now win the Stanly Cup in the 3rd Round by TKO or submishion!!!!!1
"Because the game is not just about fighting no more. " D.J. King
by bigeugene on Jul 29, 2010 12:31 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
...
I’ve heard they’re pushing management to get after this guy
Money don't make my world go round...i'm reaching out to a higher ground
Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Jul 29, 2010 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions
So who is this new 2C we got yesterday? DJ King? What’s the skinny on him?
4th Floor, is next, swimvare, undervare, Eric Fehr...
...
I’d be more happy if it was this DJ
Money don't make my world go round...i'm reaching out to a higher ground
Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Jul 29, 2010 7:48 AM EDT up reply actions
Excuse me mister bouncer man … I’m with the DJ
You perhaps knew me better as "Your Nation's Capital." Same great commentary, now with 100% more transparency!
You know she’s a big hockey fan. Still married to Valery Bure, the lesser achieving of the Bure brothers.
Every bursted bubble has a glory! Each abysmal failure makes a point! Every glowing path that goes astray,shows you how to find a better way. So every time you stumble never grumble. Next time you'll bumble even less!
Related: one of my fave hockey cards ever
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
by J.P. on Jul 29, 2010 9:26 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
They’re like a super-nutty, gigantic christian scientist family or something, right?
Why wouldn't you play Perreault? He's a really talented young player.
Who also play a part in their own winery.
Related: Must be a Russian thing.
And I thought Tom Soehn was a shitty coach.
by Bald Pollack on Jul 29, 2010 9:33 AM EDT up reply actions
From whence I got my signature.
"Hockey is my life, wine is my passion." -- Igor Larionov
by Scott in Shaw on Jul 29, 2010 5:09 PM EDT up reply actions
One thing is for sure, December 1st is going to be a “must see TV” night for Caps fans when they visit the Blues…
“The bottom line is, the next time we see each other, it’s going to be a dandy…It will definitely make SportsCenter top 10. Me and Kinger, we loved each other and we respected each other. But when it comes down to it, we’re going to kick the hell out of each other, whether it’s in Washington or in St. Louis. I’m going to be doing some bobbing and weaving, I know that. But we’re going to kick the hell out each other, and afterwards we’re still going to respect each other. I’m going to miss him. We were great friends, but something needed to happen for both of our careers. This is my town, my team and I’m excited to be the guy. I’m ready for it. I want to be a leader on this team. I’m going to lead on and off the ice.”
— Cam Janssen
If you've read this far...seek help.
It really does annoy me that a player has already pencilled in a fight. Doesn’t the league frown upon that sort of behavior?
"It's always good to have vikings."
Proud member of the Oxford dictionary police.
Not when STL announces a sellout for that game.
You perhaps knew me better as "Your Nation's Capital." Same great commentary, now with 100% more transparency!
Heh. Too bad we proably have to dress King for that game so Janssen doesn’t go after Bradley (or someone else) again, because I’d love the disappointment when we didn’t.
"It's always good to have vikings."
Proud member of the Oxford dictionary police.
I don’t mind it, especially in this case, where a player is describing a positive, mutually-respectful relationship. I remember the days when Stu Grimson and Bob Probert were the reigning heavyweights in the league. The hype leading up to their games against each other was amazing, almost as if it were a prize fight. And the fights lived up to it.
It really does annoy me that a player has already pencilled in a fight. Doesn’t the league frown upon that sort of behavior?
Nah, the league is too busy programming their TiVOs so they don’t miss it.
Don’t forget — “the league” is hockey fans too…
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Jul 29, 2010 12:03 PM EDT up reply actions
i just hope janssen has enough respect for dj to man up and fight him and not run him like he did to brads…poor Q Laing…
Just trying to capture the spirit of the thing...
by dcsportsfan1 on Jul 29, 2010 8:40 AM EDT up reply actions
yup, and i read the quotes from janssen after he blindsided brads and continued to pound a clearly outmatched and submissive Q Laing. there is a distinct difference between what janssen says and what he does.
Just trying to capture the spirit of the thing...
by dcsportsfan1 on Jul 29, 2010 9:25 AM EDT up reply actions
I tweeted this last night, but those two have actually tangled before, in juniors (I believe) – it’s on YouTube.
Ah, gracias. I can’t see blogspot and wordpress sites at work so I hadn’t checked that one out. Foiled again!!!1
on the ice, off the ice, he's going to lead...
With his elbow, from behind and off his skates.
Only YOU can prevent idiots from commenting!
by Knee high to a duck on Jul 29, 2010 9:56 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Andrew Ladd signs with Atlanta, 1yr, 2.35.
On the Forecheck: preaching the Predators' gospel to the unwashed masses.
I think its more Mason Raymond and Matt Moulson, but really, Ladd isn’t the same type of player as those three.
On the Forecheck: preaching the Predators' gospel to the unwashed masses.
by Chris Burton on Jul 29, 2010 9:40 AM EDT up reply actions
Then Fehr set the market, ‘cos VAN used F16’s K to negotiate Raymond.
You perhaps knew me better as "Your Nation's Capital." Same great commentary, now with 100% more transparency!
Interesting, hadn’t heard that.
On the Forecheck: preaching the Predators' gospel to the unwashed masses.
by Chris Burton on Jul 29, 2010 9:52 AM EDT up reply actions
I’d take Ladd over Flash in a hearbeat. Love that guy’s game.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
by Fehr and Balanced on Jul 29, 2010 11:03 AM EDT up reply actions
Oh, so would I, for sure. I was just pointing out that they’re not really comparables.
On the Forecheck: preaching the Predators' gospel to the unwashed masses.
by Chris Burton on Jul 29, 2010 11:06 AM EDT up reply actions
No, because Ladd plays with balls.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
by Fehr and Balanced on Jul 29, 2010 11:07 AM EDT up reply actions
I totally read that the wrong way initially.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
…or did you?
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
by Fehr and Balanced on Jul 29, 2010 11:08 AM EDT up reply actions
Q: Why do women stretch just after they’ve woken up?
A: Because they don’t have balls to scratch.
Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?
by fat_daddyo on Jul 29, 2010 12:00 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Pretty much. And a heart.
On the Forecheck: preaching the Predators' gospel to the unwashed masses.
by Chris Burton on Jul 29, 2010 11:10 AM EDT up reply actions
Two more (perhaps lesser) points on the trade:
1. It sends a great message from management to the room – don’t worry about who’s gonna do the “dirty” work; worry about playing hockey.
2. If you believe some of the rumblings, innuendo, etc., it sends a message to the prospects about what will and won’t be tolerated off-ice in the organization.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
Can you remind us what he allegedly did off-ice?
Why wouldn't you play Perreault? He's a really talented young player.
No, not really. Just heard some whispers.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
Off-ice issues? Hmm. Somehow I missed that part.
You perhaps knew me better as "Your Nation's Capital." Same great commentary, now with 100% more transparency!
No, not really. Just heard some whispers.
you tease.
Because now I can justify browsing and commenting during the work day with the argument that I am promoting my business.
by Sombrero Guy on Jul 29, 2010 11:22 AM EDT up reply actions
Okay now I’m intrigued.
"I’m very happy to hear the news," Ovechkin said when he heard about Backstrom's longterm contract--"because he’s one of the top centers in the world, one of my best friends and we want to play together for a long time. He’s a guy who wants to stay in one place and be comfortable and win, just like me. We talk all the time about playing together, and we talked after the playoffs about how we can win in Washington."
by capsyoungguns on Jul 29, 2010 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions
to point 1, this team won the president’s trophy without a dj king in the lineup. sure, not optimal to have brads out there policing the ice, but the team fared pretty well with that lineup. presuming king doesnt have any impact in the playoffs, i’m not so sure this was a message to the caps locker room as much as it was to the other teams locker rooms (rags, philly, TB) about taking liberties with the caps.
Just trying to capture the spirit of the thing...
by dcsportsfan1 on Jul 29, 2010 9:57 AM EDT up reply actions
There were definitely regular season games in which the Caps got pushed around. And certainly they weren’t a tough team to play against, physically (well, perhaps cardiovascularly). Does one guy change all that? Not really. But when Matt Bradley can worry more about forechecking and less about getting license numbers on the guy who just ran Semin, the Caps are a better team.
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I will feel much better playing Western conference teams this year if he is in the lineup. Less chance of one of our better players being injured by a goon.
i guess that makes sense if, in fact, brads (or erskine’s) play really suffered due to the added burden of having to be on call to throw hands if things go sideways. MB10 actually had more points and less PIM’s last year than the year before when Brash was on the bench (in four fewer games). maybe we want brads to be on edge…
Just trying to capture the spirit of the thing...
by dcsportsfan1 on Jul 29, 2010 10:40 AM EDT up reply actions
I’m sure he still will be – but properly slotted as a middleweight rather than having to potentially chuck knuckles with a heavy. Having King gives better definition to Bradley’s role, which can’t be bad.
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Depends on whether someone’s hurt or not. I think it’s one of Gordo or Steckel.
Hanlon's Razor: Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.
Maybe, I’m just going by last year’s depth chart which saw Matt Bradley get pushed out of the lineup when Scott Walker was in.
Well, DJ King’s a LW and Brads is a RW, so it’s the left side that gets bumped.
Hanlon's Razor: Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.
Agree. Brads plays 4R and King would presumably play 4L, so it’s hard to see them swapping one for the other.
Also depends on who’s playing 2L and 3L, which is informed by who’s playing 2C. If it’s Flash at 2C, then it’s most likely Laich at 2L, Chimera at 3L, and then you have a spot for King or Gordo at 4L.
If Flash is playing 2L, then Laich is pushed down to 3L, Chimera to 4L…and King to the press box.
I would say this trade mostly confirms our suspicions that Flash starts the season at 2C.
Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?
They had to wait for Flash’s arbitration/signing. Once he was back in the lineup, they could proceed with the rest.
Any more dominos yet to fall?
You perhaps knew me better as "Your Nation's Capital." Same great commentary, now with 100% more transparency!
I don’t think goons care which side they play on
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Jul 29, 2010 1:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Aren’t we jumping ahead? The Caps have only 12 roster forwards under contract at the moment.
If you've read this far...seek help.
I think we’re assuming that someone else is going to get either signed or brought up from hershey.
Hanlon's Razor: Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.
Here’s how I see it at the moment
AO – Backs – Knuble
Laich – Flash – Semin
Chimera – ??? – Fehr
King – Gordo/Stecks – Brads
(Sloan)
The ??? could turn out to be MarJo or MP, or someone else via trade.
Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?
2. If you believe some of the rumblings, innuendo, etc., it sends a message to the prospects about what will and won’t be tolerated off-ice in the organization.
What’s their excuse for keeping a certain Mr. Finley?
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by YvonLabresMoustache on Jul 29, 2010 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Nobody would actually trade for him?
Because now I can justify browsing and commenting during the work day with the argument that I am promoting my business.
by Sombrero Guy on Jul 29, 2010 12:13 PM EDT up reply actions
....
I would
Money don't make my world go round...i'm reaching out to a higher ground
Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Jul 29, 2010 12:15 PM EDT up reply actions
BP & you are like John Winger & Russell Ziskey today. You keeping showing how clueless Captain Stillman is.
"You ever use smelling salts, every time you type a bad blog?" Brooks Laich
Maybe we’ll be able to surprise him again while he’s using a telescope to look in the women’s shower.
Money don't make my world go round...i'm reaching out to a higher ground
Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Jul 29, 2010 12:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Worst part is you’ll probably have to go out and save the whole OFB crew when they wander into Philly by accident.
"You ever use smelling salts, every time you type a bad blog?" Brooks Laich
I’m not even sure the EM 50 Urban Assault Vehicle can help them at this point.
Money don't make my world go round...i'm reaching out to a higher ground
Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Jul 29, 2010 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Maybe not, but BP and you do deserve a rec'reational vehicle for your efforts.
"You ever use smelling salts, every time you type a bad blog?" Brooks Laich
by CP2Devil on Jul 29, 2010 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
.
And I thought Tom Soehn was a shitty coach.
by Bald Pollack on Jul 29, 2010 1:50 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
As much attitude as he has on-ice prolly can’t be turned off when he’s not skating.
Is my guess.
You perhaps knew me better as "Your Nation's Capital." Same great commentary, now with 100% more transparency!
Gotcha. I was just caught totally by surprise by the fact that there have been whispers about SDR’s off-ice stuff. Had no idea.
Was just wondering how many other people had heard about it.
Had you?
Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?
Love at first (sound) bite
From Tarik’s entry on the King trade:
When told what Pittsburgh’s Max Talbot had to say about Alex Ovechkin yesterday, King shot back, “Wow. I guess that’s not going to be happening too much longer, I guess.”
Ok, I like the guy already…a lot.
Washington Capitals 2009-10 = Quebec Nordiques 1994-95
--- D'ohboy
Ok, I like the guy already… I guess.
Why wouldn't you play Perreault? He's a really talented young player.
Ok, I guess I like the guy already…I guess.
"Now wait a minute. This is just purely a social call. You know, just two adults getting a stew on, man."
by The Ghost of Bebop on Jul 29, 2010 10:18 AM EDT up reply actions
Ok, I guess I like the guy…Trevor Bruess
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Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Jul 29, 2010 10:36 AM EDT up reply actions
I hope he is not always that indecisive.
“Wow. I guess I should hit this guy, I guess.”
“Wow. I guess I should pass the puck, I guess.”
“Wow. I guess I should join the rush, I guess.”
“Wow. I guess I should forecheck, I guess.”
“Wow. I guess I should fight this guy, I guess.”
"Do not be afraid to ask for credit, for our way of refusing is very polite."
by Laich It Or Lump It on Jul 29, 2010 11:08 AM EDT up reply actions
He and Schultzy are gonna get along just fine.
You perhaps knew me better as "Your Nation's Capital." Same great commentary, now with 100% more transparency!
Schultz is used to his type. His brother is a scrappy bastard, too!
Why wouldn't you play Perreault? He's a really talented young player.
I was just looking at King’s penalties for 2007-8 (the only season he played much, and they aren’t that bad when you take out the fighting penalties. He had 100 penalty minutes in 61 games, but 70 of those were from his 14 fights. 30 non-fighting penalty minutes in 61 games, with an average TOI of 5:36.
An amusing fact about his TOI – it was brought down by a game against the Kings where he played 2 seconds… and got a 5 minute fighting major. Looks like he took on Ivanans in the 1st and didn’t come back on.
Never underrate the power of the hissy-cow.
Well, he took minors at a pretty terrible rate that season – I wouldn’t expect much discipline.
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http://www.hockeyfights.com/fights/41292
King started and pretty much owned that fight with Ivanans.
Never underrate the power of the hissy-cow.
http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog.php?post_id=29517
It’s not too often that we see good ole’ sign and trades in the NHL. These shouldn’t be confused with what we see the NBA where players will sign with their original team strictly for financial purposes. In the NBA, a player can often be signed to a more lucrative contract if they sign with their current team even though a trade has already been orchestrated.
In this particular case, Capitals GM George McPhee wasn’t willing to pull the trigger on the D.J. King deal unless he was coming to Washington with a signed two-year deal in his back pocket. Knowing King was going to be an unrestricted free agent after next season, McPhee wasn’t going to part with a prospect of Stefan Della Rovere’s caliber just to have King for one season. This is especially the case when Washington has another tough guy prospect that may only be another year away
Armstrong targeted SDR as the player he wanted in return and was willing to take whatever steps necessary to finalize the deal. The Blues really liked SDR’s leadership capabilities and feel he’s made a greater commitment to conditioning himself over the last few years. At the end of the day things worked out pretty well for King who was looking for a multi-year deal all along. His $625,000 salary for this coming season was likely higher than what the Blues were looking to pay him anyway. King will also be paid $650,000 in 2011-2012.
I do find it interesting that the Blues did not tell King which team he was going to be traded to while they were negotiating his two-year deal.
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Strickland had a major case of overrating Delly last night on twitter.
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Was King due that kind of a raise per the CBA? 625/650 seems high for a guy who’d been hurt most of the last two years.
You perhaps knew me better as "Your Nation's Capital." Same great commentary, now with 100% more transparency!
No. But it’s only a few rubles over the minimum. People caught up on dollars here are nuts.
And Strickland, in that piece, refers to him as “King Kong.” Nice.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
the sign and trade is very interesting. I wonder if they at least told him it was a playoff team he was going to.
#savethekittens!
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feel he’s made a greater commitment to conditioning himself
Reading between the lines (and I know, it’s hockeybuzz), it would seem like the “off the ice issues” JP alluded to would pertain to Delly’s willingness to keep himself in shape?
I do find it interesting that the Blues did not tell King which team he was going to be traded to while they were negotiating his two-year deal.
You think a guy like King asks a lot of questions when they tell him he’s going to get a 2-year, 1-way extension? I don’t. He signed that contract as fast as he could get a pen in his hand, before they changed their minds.
Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?
And what? They tell him it’s DC, and he sez “No way. That Ovechkin is a douche.”
/not hardly likely
You perhaps knew me better as "Your Nation's Capital." Same great commentary, now with 100% more transparency!
More likely he’d go “Oh sweet, a chance to win something.”
Why wouldn't you play Perreault? He's a really talented young player.
“I guess it’s a chance to win something I guess”
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Jul 29, 2010 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Last offseason i was clearly against an enforcer in our squad, but a year passed and my opinion shifted a little bit. I still think that this team would be fine whithout that kind of player, but you have to look from a standpoiont that all GMs have to operate from- the business standpoint. Hockey is entertainment first and who doesnt like a good fight? Well, i do!
Can somebody name a good caps fight from the last year? They were pathetic!
If i can see players like Carcillo and Downie lie in their own blood after a fight, then thanks GMGM for that trade and that cap hit.
My reaction is that you shouldn’t put too much stock into what GMGM says to the media. When he said they didn’t need an enforcer, that meant (given yesterday’s trade) that he couldn’t find one he liked at the right price, and they were going to go without one.
Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?
Can somebody name a good caps fight from the last year?
Erskine vs. Laraque
Erskine vs. Thorburn
Erskine vs. Thornton
brads v downey was a pretty good scrap not even counting the run up to it…
fight of the year for sure was poti v gomez
Just trying to capture the spirit of the thing...
by dcsportsfan1 on Jul 29, 2010 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Poti/Gomez was a good fight because of the timing and emotional charge involved, but in terms of actual fighting prowess, those two were basically pillow-fighting.
Last year there was one player, and one player alone, who was capable of winning every fight he got in, and that was John Erskine. Next season, there will be two.
Oh, and yes, I know winning hockey fights isn’t what matters, but I’d at least prefer that the high volume mitt-droppers on the Caps have a fighting chance.
I see it this way: Will it help us in the playoffs? Probably not directly. But, having one in the regular season is worth a little entertainment now and then for us, gives us a weapon to put in if we think there’s going to be a problem, and frees the rest of the guys to play hockey and let King worry about taking numbers. Will he sit in the press box a lot of nights? Likely. But we can afford that. It doesn’t hurt us any, and if it discourages incidents like the Chimera / Boll / Ovi incident, sign me up.
Hanlon's Razor: Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.
top ten building blocks
So my new Winging it in Motown friend is at it again, and this time he’s compiled a list of the top ten players he’d select first if building a team. While not quite as fail-y as the last bit about moving the Predators, he has Henrik Zetterberg and Jon Toews before Sidney Crosby, and Shea Weber before Alex Ovechkin. You’re all well aware I’m one of the bigger Weber fanboys on earth, but thats ludicrous.
Anyway, interesting subject, though not a very good article. Discuss!
On the Forecheck: preaching the Predators' gospel to the unwashed masses.
I like the part about Ovechkin being the best forward in the NHL on skill alone, because I don’t even think he’s the most skill Russian winger on his own team.
by David M. Getz on Jul 29, 2010 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Gee any Central Division bias there?
"You ever use smelling salts, every time you type a bad blog?" Brooks Laich
Yeah, and even with the huge Central bias he left out Duncan Keith. I’d probably put Keith before Weber. Whoooooops.
I didn’t really post it to rag on the guy, though, the list is obviously horrible – more for a discussion starter.
On the Forecheck: preaching the Predators' gospel to the unwashed masses.
by Chris Burton on Jul 29, 2010 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions
No love for the Sedins either
Money don't make my world go round...i'm reaching out to a higher ground
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by YvonLabresMoustache on Jul 29, 2010 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Keith was a notable omission, but the biggest one was Doughty. To be that good at that age as a defenseman? That’s something special.
by David M. Getz on Jul 29, 2010 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree, and I think that Drew Doughty is more balanced than Keith or Weber. He reminds me of Lidstrom, style-wise.
On the Forecheck: preaching the Predators' gospel to the unwashed masses.
by Chris Burton on Jul 29, 2010 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions
I questioned why Doughty made the Olympic team…
I don’t question it any more.
Money don't make my world go round...i'm reaching out to a higher ground
Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Jul 29, 2010 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Same here. Second best defenseman on the team during the tournament, easily.
On the Forecheck: preaching the Predators' gospel to the unwashed masses.
by Chris Burton on Jul 29, 2010 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Same here. I figured “Maybe I’m missing something. Better give this kid an extended look.” He’s scary good.
In fact, he’d probably be the first defenseman I’d take.
by David M. Getz on Jul 29, 2010 12:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah…he’d lock up the number one D spot for at least 10+ years.
Dude isn’t even 21 yet.
Money don't make my world go round...i'm reaching out to a higher ground
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by YvonLabresMoustache on Jul 29, 2010 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions
It’s interesting that you said what you said. Both here and at PPP when I said the kid should make it I got the impression that most of those who stated he shouldn’t hadn’t seen him play very much. I think if he played for an Eastern team a lot more people would have been on the Doughty bandwagon.
"You ever use smelling salts, every time you type a bad blog?" Brooks Laich
He also has Mike Freaking Richards before Ovechkin too, which I think just made my eyes bleed
Money don't make my world go round...i'm reaching out to a higher ground
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by YvonLabresMoustache on Jul 29, 2010 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Off the top of my head, my list (skaters only)
Crosby
Doughty
Backstrom
Keith
Toews
Sedin
Ovechkin
Weber
Stamkos
Carter (could go a lot of ways with this last one)
I nearly left AO off all together, but decided in the end the heckling wasn’t worth it. My theory is that the best way to build a team is down the middle and from the back. Wings should be the last thing you add.
Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?
Is that list ordered? Because, man, Sedin ahead of Ovechkin would be an awfully hard case to make.
by David M. Getz on Jul 29, 2010 1:03 PM EDT up reply actions
So would Keith before Toews.
On the Forecheck: preaching the Predators' gospel to the unwashed masses.
by Chris Burton on Jul 29, 2010 1:05 PM EDT up reply actions
I know that, all other things being mostly equal, C > W. But Ovechkin is a generational talent. You don’t build around normal wings, sure, but he ain’t no normal wing.
Eat, drink, and be merry! And then drink some more.
by SmallZ827 on Jul 29, 2010 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Yep, it’s ordered.
I’d rather have a good-to-great C than a generational winger if I were starting to build a team.
Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?
Definitely. You’d be a lunatic to pick him first but a lunatic not to pick him after your center.
All the king's horses and all the king's men
Couldn't put Humpty together again
I think Weber is a better Captain than Ovechkin
Ovi’s attitude is what moved him down the list. He’s an electrifying player, but his leadership is a risk. I know for certain that Weber would be an awesome guy to have in any locker room under any system; I’m not so sure that I can say the same about Ovechkin, considering how much Boudreau and Leonsis cover for him. If I were to compile my top ten players in the league, I’m not sure Weber makes that list at all, but for guys that I want to build a team around, I’m comfortable with that ranking.
Doughty and Keith were tough omissions and thinking more about it, I should probably replace Joe Thornton with either of them (Keith to be sure). Doughty is a rare talent to be as good defensively as he is at his age, but Keith is a better and more established defenseman and leader. If I’m making this list the same time next season, it will probably be downright criminal to leave Doughty off, but I want to see another year out of him before I say that I’m building a team around him.
Honest question, why is this being discussed here?
by J.J. from Kansas on Jul 29, 2010 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions
because we discuss everything.
I do take exception to “I’m not so sure that I can say the same about Ovechkin, considering how much Boudreau and Leonsis cover for him.” examples?
Watching the O’s try to use strategy is like watching Mike Green trying to figure out the difference between "your" and "you’re"--Terpgrrl
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We are an equal opportunity hockey discussing forum, my friend :) Feel free to join in the discussion, offer opinions, try to sway people. It’s all in fun – but just beware that we’re big on examples, stats, etc. to back up arguments around here (and you’re already off to a decent start, I just like to warn people before they get attacked).
Unless that Weber is Pete Weber, and instead of “better captain” its “better bowler” or “better broadcaster”, I don’t buy it.
Money don't make my world go round...i'm reaching out to a higher ground
Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Jul 29, 2010 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m perfectly willing to admit Ovechkin is the better player, etc., than Weber, thats a no brainer (albeit hard to compare), but I’d say that from what I’ve seen of both, I’d rather have SW6 leading my team. Its hard to quantify, sure, but there’s a couple reasons.
On the Forecheck: preaching the Predators' gospel to the unwashed masses.
by Chris Burton on Jul 29, 2010 1:48 PM EDT up reply actions
I was going for overall….not better captain. I think what makes a “great captain” is pretty tough to define
Money don't make my world go round...i'm reaching out to a higher ground
Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Jul 29, 2010 1:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh, okay. You made it sound like it was who the better captain was.
At any rate, the captaincy jury is very much out on Shea. There’s no doubt that Nashville was his team from the Olympics on, though.
On the Forecheck: preaching the Predators' gospel to the unwashed masses.
by Chris Burton on Jul 29, 2010 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions
I was trying to stretch it into a Pete Weber/Pete Weber joke.
Money don't make my world go round...i'm reaching out to a higher ground
Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Jul 29, 2010 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Aha. Nice effort, if faulty execution.
On the Forecheck: preaching the Predators' gospel to the unwashed masses.
by Chris Burton on Jul 29, 2010 1:55 PM EDT up reply actions
his leadership is a risk
Because he lacks the mental toughness that makes the heart of a true champion fill with a burning desire like a warrior in a foxhole that you’d got to battle with any day.
Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?
by fat_daddyo on Jul 29, 2010 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Because when the Capitals were eliminated by the Canadiens, he could only rally about nine of his teammates to join him in a stick raising to the fans.
I think there’s a systemic attitude problem in the Capitals organization that keeps them from being better. I don’t know how much of that is Ovechkin and the idea that he’s too selfish and how much is with a coach that I don’t think is good enough to get them through the Finals, or how much is with an owner who feels that blogging about Max Talbot’s comments or about how the Capitals have “nothing left to prove” after winning the Presidents Trophy, but I know that I think it’s a problem that reflects on Ovechkin and puts him farther down my list of people around whom I’d build a team.
by J.J. from Kansas on Jul 29, 2010 1:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Maybe that’s why they only went 16-1 after they named him Captain?
Money don't make my world go round...i'm reaching out to a higher ground
Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Jul 29, 2010 1:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Because when the Capitals were eliminated by the Canadiens, he could only rally about nine of his teammates to join him in a stick raising to the fans.
Not fair to pin that on his leadership, I don’t think.
Your other points, however, are interesting – though I’d tend to push more of the ‘blame’ to Boudreau instead of AO. By all accounts, Ovechkin is a perfectly capable captain, recklessness aside.
On the Forecheck: preaching the Predators' gospel to the unwashed masses.
by Chris Burton on Jul 29, 2010 1:51 PM EDT up reply actions
If we’re only talking about problems I see with the Caps, being an outsider, than Boudreau is way higher on the list. Hell, Ovechkin’s attitude or leadership aren’t top five.
He is a very capable captain for the Caps; my concern is that the Caps are an underperforming team being coached by a guy I don’t like and there are questions from the Olympics and elsewhere about where Ovechkin fits as the centerpiece of an entire team.
by J.J. from Kansas on Jul 29, 2010 1:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes, well everyone else made him the centerpiece of the Olympics. He wasn’t the captain but certainly has served as the scapegoat of Team Russia’s failure. You shouldn’t make an evaluation of his captaincy on that basis.
Why don’t you like BB?
"I’m very happy to hear the news," Ovechkin said when he heard about Backstrom's longterm contract--"because he’s one of the top centers in the world, one of my best friends and we want to play together for a long time. He’s a guy who wants to stay in one place and be comfortable and win, just like me. We talk all the time about playing together, and we talked after the playoffs about how we can win in Washington."
by capsyoungguns on Jul 29, 2010 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions
what don’t you like about Bruce? We’ve analyzed him to death and everyone here is pretty much in agreement that the guy be to stubborn to the point on stupidity, but I’d still put him really high on my list of “coaches I want coaching my team.”
Watching the O’s try to use strategy is like watching Mike Green trying to figure out the difference between "your" and "you’re"--Terpgrrl
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I can’t say that I would.
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by Chris Burton on Jul 29, 2010 2:00 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t think I would either
Money don't make my world go round...i'm reaching out to a higher ground
Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Jul 29, 2010 2:01 PM EDT up reply actions
The goal is to win the Stanley Cup, and from what I’ve seen of Boudreau, I’m not convinced he has it in him.
On the Forecheck: preaching the Predators' gospel to the unwashed masses.
by Chris Burton on Jul 29, 2010 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Yup. Like i’ve said, if this team doesn’t at least make the Conference Finals next year, some serious questions have to be axed.
Money don't make my world go round...i'm reaching out to a higher ground
Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Jul 29, 2010 2:07 PM EDT up reply actions
I think it’s already worth asking those questions.
I'm gonna pain you dearly Woodhouse, when I peel all your skin off with a flensing knife, sew it into Woodhouse pajamas, and then set those pajamas on fire.
by Steckel Me Elmo on Jul 29, 2010 2:13 PM EDT up reply actions
I think those questions are being asked. Bruce has got to be feeling some anticipatory heat this upcoming season.
"I’m very happy to hear the news," Ovechkin said when he heard about Backstrom's longterm contract--"because he’s one of the top centers in the world, one of my best friends and we want to play together for a long time. He’s a guy who wants to stay in one place and be comfortable and win, just like me. We talk all the time about playing together, and we talked after the playoffs about how we can win in Washington."
by capsyoungguns on Jul 29, 2010 2:20 PM EDT up reply actions
to each their own. But he took a team that sucked, outright sucked, and turned them around in a matter of weeks.
Watching the O’s try to use strategy is like watching Mike Green trying to figure out the difference between "your" and "you’re"--Terpgrrl
Donation info for SAVES FOR KIDS 2010!! Make a difference.
And hasn’t shown he can put them over the hump yet. It’s not to say that he can’t (or won’t), but there’s enough to suggest that someone else may need to be brought in to do so.
And I thought Tom Soehn was a shitty coach.
by Bald Pollack on Jul 29, 2010 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions
and I agree that the team really needs to get past these game 7 flame-outs. but to say that Bruce is “a guy I don’t like” without any support examples? I’m stuck wondering if he doesn’t like Bruce because of his goofy commercials (lord knows Mike Babcock would never say “I’m getting a garden salad!”) or he has some sort of legitimate critique of Bruce’s coaching. Forgive me, but what our new friend has posted so far doesn’t lead me to believe he has a reasonable critique supported by actual evidence.
Watching the O’s try to use strategy is like watching Mike Green trying to figure out the difference between "your" and "you’re"--Terpgrrl
Donation info for SAVES FOR KIDS 2010!! Make a difference.
lord knows Mike Babcock would never say "I’m getting a garden salad!"
When you’re used to champagne, tasting beer could get a little unsettling I guess. Otherwise, I got nothing.
And I thought Tom Soehn was a shitty coach.
by Bald Pollack on Jul 29, 2010 2:24 PM EDT up reply actions
My evidence is the Capitals’ playoff performance over the previous seasons.
by J.J. from Kansas on Jul 29, 2010 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, Bruce has an extremely short leash for me.
Release the Mackan!
by Killer_Carlson on Jul 29, 2010 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions
yup
From an outsider’s perspective the lack of adjustments against the Canadiens was downright astounding.
On the Forecheck: preaching the Predators' gospel to the unwashed masses.
by Chris Burton on Jul 29, 2010 2:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Agree on the playoff adjustments. He’s on a short list for me too. But that has nothing to do with why this poster doesn’t like BB. .
"I’m very happy to hear the news," Ovechkin said when he heard about Backstrom's longterm contract--"because he’s one of the top centers in the world, one of my best friends and we want to play together for a long time. He’s a guy who wants to stay in one place and be comfortable and win, just like me. We talk all the time about playing together, and we talked after the playoffs about how we can win in Washington."
by capsyoungguns on Jul 29, 2010 2:05 PM EDT up reply actions
I mean “short leash”
"I’m very happy to hear the news," Ovechkin said when he heard about Backstrom's longterm contract--"because he’s one of the top centers in the world, one of my best friends and we want to play together for a long time. He’s a guy who wants to stay in one place and be comfortable and win, just like me. We talk all the time about playing together, and we talked after the playoffs about how we can win in Washington."
by capsyoungguns on Jul 29, 2010 2:05 PM EDT up reply actions
this is perhaps the most telling point for me not putting BB on my list of coaches that I really want to coach my team. I would say that why he could turn around the team so fast was probably in part due to his being a players’ coach and for willing to implement a system that suited his players better. But he hasn’t adjusted that system when he’s needed to, and that’s not a sign of good coaching in my book.
I realy hope this season he doesn’t just cruise and bank on the Caps’ talent again.
by Vinn on Jul 29, 2010 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Me neither.
Could def live without BB behind the bench.
Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?
I would like Jacques Demers, if only for the comedy.
Money don't make my world go round...i'm reaching out to a higher ground
Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Jul 29, 2010 2:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Agreed. From all accounts, he’s a player’s coach. Thinks of the guys first. Time will tell whether he is a good playoff coach which is a completely different thing.
"I’m very happy to hear the news," Ovechkin said when he heard about Backstrom's longterm contract--"because he’s one of the top centers in the world, one of my best friends and we want to play together for a long time. He’s a guy who wants to stay in one place and be comfortable and win, just like me. We talk all the time about playing together, and we talked after the playoffs about how we can win in Washington."
by capsyoungguns on Jul 29, 2010 2:01 PM EDT up reply actions
My problem is he is a ’player’s coach’ for a certain set of players, showing favoritism to a fault. He is not consistently fair or even-handed in how he deals with players.
I’d agree with that. But from all accounts players do love him. I want to see improvement from him on the coaching during the games.
"I’m very happy to hear the news," Ovechkin said when he heard about Backstrom's longterm contract--"because he’s one of the top centers in the world, one of my best friends and we want to play together for a long time. He’s a guy who wants to stay in one place and be comfortable and win, just like me. We talk all the time about playing together, and we talked after the playoffs about how we can win in Washington."
by capsyoungguns on Jul 29, 2010 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions
The stubbornness to the point of stupidity is one reason. I only saw about 20 Caps games last year, but I wasn’t impressed with Boudreau’s coaching. It seems like he’s slow to make adjustments and doesn’t consistently get the best out of his best players when it’s most needed. I know that the Semin issue with where he went in the playoffs doesn’t fall all on BB, but it partially does.
by J.J. from Kansas on Jul 29, 2010 2:06 PM EDT up reply actions
What Semin does or doesn’t do is controlled only by Semin. I have been a harsh critic of Bruce, but not even I will blame him for Semin being a headcase.
Release the Mackan!
by Killer_Carlson on Jul 29, 2010 2:30 PM EDT up reply actions
the only thing Bruce could do is scratch Semin from a game, and then we’re in the “well, do you send him to the press box, or hope that today is his breakout game?” Bruce has, however, limited Semin’s PK time in an attempt get Semin back to “good Semin.” but, yeah, Alex Semin, oy vey.
Watching the O’s try to use strategy is like watching Mike Green trying to figure out the difference between "your" and "you’re"--Terpgrrl
Donation info for SAVES FOR KIDS 2010!! Make a difference.
Which is ass-backwards because it’s when Semin is defensively tasked that he’s more focused, it seems.
by DrinkingPartner on Jul 29, 2010 2:42 PM EDT up reply actions
I flip flop on this. one week I think Semin should always be on the PK, and the next week I’m going “How else are you supposed to punish Semin?”
Watching the O’s try to use strategy is like watching Mike Green trying to figure out the difference between "your" and "you’re"--Terpgrrl
Donation info for SAVES FOR KIDS 2010!! Make a difference.
He needs to start every game feeling like he’s down 2-0 and Ovechkin’s been in a week-long drought. Good lord, does he play those games well.
by DrinkingPartner on Jul 29, 2010 3:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Wow. You got selfish in there. Good going dude—you just lost me. Go find some stats to back up your claim that Ovi is a selfish player—or better yet watch some of the games first.
"I’m very happy to hear the news," Ovechkin said when he heard about Backstrom's longterm contract--"because he’s one of the top centers in the world, one of my best friends and we want to play together for a long time. He’s a guy who wants to stay in one place and be comfortable and win, just like me. We talk all the time about playing together, and we talked after the playoffs about how we can win in Washington."
by capsyoungguns on Jul 29, 2010 1:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Stats are easy to find. Like the stat that shows Ovi had more assists (59) then goals (50) last season. Yeah, real selfish.
"HISTORY DOESN’T MATTER!!! .... Who cares if it’s never been done? We aren’t those teams who failed before. We are in control of our own destiny, and we will make it happen our own way.." - A Gordon, June 2010
Rec.
"I’m very happy to hear the news," Ovechkin said when he heard about Backstrom's longterm contract--"because he’s one of the top centers in the world, one of my best friends and we want to play together for a long time. He’s a guy who wants to stay in one place and be comfortable and win, just like me. We talk all the time about playing together, and we talked after the playoffs about how we can win in Washington."
by capsyoungguns on Jul 29, 2010 1:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Patrick Kane had more assists than goals as well and he’s the most selfish player in the league right now.
I don’t know why I have to clarify this, but I think I do: Patrick Kane is a fantastic hockey player.
by J.J. from Kansas on Jul 29, 2010 2:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Uh, how are you quantifying selfish, then?
On the Forecheck: preaching the Predators' gospel to the unwashed masses.
by Chris Burton on Jul 29, 2010 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Is this really serious, to ask for a quantification of a completely subjective term?
I…I just don’t have an answer for that. Do you have quantitative criteria by which you could accurately describe the most selfish player in the league?
by J.J. from Kansas on Jul 29, 2010 2:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, its serious, because I was wondering how you could make a blanket statement like that.
No, I don’t, thats why I was asking you :P.
On the Forecheck: preaching the Predators' gospel to the unwashed masses.
by Chris Burton on Jul 29, 2010 2:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Well you used that word—one that non-Caps fans love to use about Ovi. So explain yourself. Back up your claim that Ovi is selfish using something—examples or numbers.
"I’m very happy to hear the news," Ovechkin said when he heard about Backstrom's longterm contract--"because he’s one of the top centers in the world, one of my best friends and we want to play together for a long time. He’s a guy who wants to stay in one place and be comfortable and win, just like me. We talk all the time about playing together, and we talked after the playoffs about how we can win in Washington."
by capsyoungguns on Jul 29, 2010 2:11 PM EDT up reply actions
see, that’s the problem, we don’t really do subjective around here. We like to try and quantify everything.
Watching the O’s try to use strategy is like watching Mike Green trying to figure out the difference between "your" and "you’re"--Terpgrrl
Donation info for SAVES FOR KIDS 2010!! Make a difference.
We do subjective. We don’t do statements without evidence.
Noting a player as selfish or not isn’t something you can quantify, but you can make a case using examples.
by David M. Getz on Jul 29, 2010 2:13 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
So define selfish. i think it’s just a lazy meme that outsiders use when describing Ovi. Much like Greenie can’t play a lick of defense cause he’s a winga.
"I’m very happy to hear the news," Ovechkin said when he heard about Backstrom's longterm contract--"because he’s one of the top centers in the world, one of my best friends and we want to play together for a long time. He’s a guy who wants to stay in one place and be comfortable and win, just like me. We talk all the time about playing together, and we talked after the playoffs about how we can win in Washington."
by capsyoungguns on Jul 29, 2010 2:03 PM EDT up reply actions
he’s the most selfish player in the league right now
By what metric, then?
Eat, drink, and be merry! And then drink some more.
By my admittedly biased opinion of him while watching him play.
Who is the most selfish player in the league in your opinion and by what metric do you come to that conclusion?
by J.J. from Kansas on Jul 29, 2010 2:23 PM EDT up reply actions
well, how did you come to that conclusion?
Watching the O’s try to use strategy is like watching Mike Green trying to figure out the difference between "your" and "you’re"--Terpgrrl
Donation info for SAVES FOR KIDS 2010!! Make a difference.
I think the overwhelming point here is that this is impossible to quantify.
I’d say the most selfish is Ilya Kovalchuk, because he doesn’t play defense and wants insane amounts of money, but again, its impossible to objectively say.
On the Forecheck: preaching the Predators' gospel to the unwashed masses.
by Chris Burton on Jul 29, 2010 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions
I came to the conclusion that Patrick Kane is the most selfish player in the league right now by watching Patrick Kane play. I don’t have a quantitative measure on how often I’ve seen the following play versus how often I’ve seen him do something else, but specifically when he skates the puck around the entire zone and ignores two or sometimes three passing opportunities to an open teammate on the backdoor just to end up throwing a weak wrister towards the goal that gets blocked and turned over is how I got the opinion that Patrick Kane is selfish.
I can tell you that it happened in game 6 of the Finals and in other games I watched, but for specific times or periods or for video clips of the offending plays, I am at a loss. If my inability to produce this factual evidence means it is not valid, then I suppose I’ll have to live with that.
by J.J. from Kansas on Jul 29, 2010 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Well you gave some examples—could be more game specific—but your description of Kane’s play does not describe Ovi’s. He likes to pass too. He doesn’t care who scores the goal as long as the puck goes in the net. But I am bowing out of this discussion now.
"I’m very happy to hear the news," Ovechkin said when he heard about Backstrom's longterm contract--"because he’s one of the top centers in the world, one of my best friends and we want to play together for a long time. He’s a guy who wants to stay in one place and be comfortable and win, just like me. We talk all the time about playing together, and we talked after the playoffs about how we can win in Washington."
by capsyoungguns on Jul 29, 2010 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Is Kane doing that because he wants the glory (i.e. because he’s selfish), or because it’s how he thinks he can best create offense? I’ve seen Kane hang on to the puck for what seems like forever because he’s waiting for an opportunity to get a decent scoring chance.
by David M. Getz on Jul 29, 2010 2:42 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t know, but I would assume that the cab driver incident and the limo pictures that came out last season are examples that would tend to more strongly support the argument that he’s selfish over the argument that he’s waiting for a better scoring chance, especially since he often has teammates open for passes while he has his back turned to the goal. Perhaps it’s inexperience getting him in that situation, I just don’t think that’s the case.
by J.J. from Kansas on Jul 29, 2010 2:47 PM EDT up reply actions
I’d say it’s an immature twat with high questionable decision making skills based on his off ice behavior. But it does nothing to support that he’s selfish on the ice.
Watching the O’s try to use strategy is like watching Mike Green trying to figure out the difference between "your" and "you’re"--Terpgrrl
Donation info for SAVES FOR KIDS 2010!! Make a difference.
Does it not stand to reason that an immature twat with high questionable decision-making skills would also be a selfish person and wouldn’t a selfish person be selfish regardless of whether he’s on the ice?
by J.J. from Kansas on Jul 29, 2010 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions
nope. People can be very different, good and bad, on and off the playing surface.
Watching the O’s try to use strategy is like watching Mike Green trying to figure out the difference between "your" and "you’re"--Terpgrrl
Donation info for SAVES FOR KIDS 2010!! Make a difference.
Immaturity and selfishness do not mean the same thing.
"I’m very happy to hear the news," Ovechkin said when he heard about Backstrom's longterm contract--"because he’s one of the top centers in the world, one of my best friends and we want to play together for a long time. He’s a guy who wants to stay in one place and be comfortable and win, just like me. We talk all the time about playing together, and we talked after the playoffs about how we can win in Washington."
by capsyoungguns on Jul 29, 2010 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions
All people who are selfish are immature, but not all people who are immature are selfish. I will agree with that.
I would however say that fighting a cab driver over two dimes is an indication of selfishness.
by J.J. from Kansas on Jul 29, 2010 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions
or drunkenness.
"I’m very happy to hear the news," Ovechkin said when he heard about Backstrom's longterm contract--"because he’s one of the top centers in the world, one of my best friends and we want to play together for a long time. He’s a guy who wants to stay in one place and be comfortable and win, just like me. We talk all the time about playing together, and we talked after the playoffs about how we can win in Washington."
by capsyoungguns on Jul 29, 2010 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Selfishness in life and selfishness in sport aren’t the same thing, the way any other personality traits aren’t one and the same. How often do you hear about NHL tough guys actually being really nice, polite, and low-key off the ice, for example?
by David M. Getz on Jul 29, 2010 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Physical assault has two completely different sets of consequences on and off the ice; selfishness generally does not. I do not think this is a good example as this is not an apples-to-apples comparison.
by J.J. from Kansas on Jul 29, 2010 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions
You’re changing the conversation. I’m talking about personality traits, not actions.
by David M. Getz on Jul 29, 2010 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions
The action of physical violence has a high probability to follow the personality trait of a person who often gets in another person’s face, especially to defend somebody like on-ice tough guys do. I would argue that the personality traits inherent in these on-ice tough guys are present off the ice as well, it’s just that there is no advantage to be gained from acting like a tough-guy in normal society.
by J.J. from Kansas on Jul 29, 2010 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Even if that’s true, it holds that people act differently when they’re playing a sport than they do the rest of the time. What about people who are generally affable but are so intense and focused when they’re playing a spot that they’re impossible to be around, let alone have a conversation with?
I mean, isn’t saying “I think this guy’s selfish off the ice, ergo he must be selfish on the ice” like saying “I bet this guy can’t be a tough player because he’s too nice”?
by David M. Getz on Jul 29, 2010 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Perhaps, but while I see an nhl tough-guy persona being one that can be turned on and off depending on where a person is, I see selfishness as a more fundamental character trait which cannot be turned off, only masked.
by J.J. from Kansas on Jul 29, 2010 3:20 PM EDT up reply actions
I wouldn’t assume not passing to an open teammate is a selfish player. If the pass leads to a 100% chance of a low-probability scoring chance and holding on to the puck leads to a 50% of a high-scoring chance, the latter might just be the better strategy.
by David M. Getz on Jul 29, 2010 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions
That’s a really big “if” considering I laid out in my example that I had seen players open on the back door. That’s not a low-probability scoring chance, screened wrist shots from the half-boards are low-probability scoring chances.
by J.J. from Kansas on Jul 29, 2010 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions
That’s an example of an arguably selfish play, but it’s not what I was talking about. I was talking about “especially since he often has teammates open for passes while he has his back turned to the goal”
by David M. Getz on Jul 29, 2010 2:57 PM EDT up reply actions
screened wrist shots from the half-boards are low-probability scoring chances.
"HISTORY DOESN’T MATTER!!! .... Who cares if it’s never been done? We aren’t those teams who failed before. We are in control of our own destiny, and we will make it happen our own way.." - A Gordon, June 2010
Money don't make my world go round...i'm reaching out to a higher ground
Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Jul 29, 2010 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes, there are plenty of instances where players score from low-probability chances; that’s what makes them memorable. That does not make them higher-probability chances than a pass to an open teammate on the backdoor.
by J.J. from Kansas on Jul 29, 2010 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Nice pull…I was sitting in literally the last row of Cap Centre for that one.
by Kerry Fraser's Hairspray on Jul 29, 2010 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions
My dad was there.
Money don't make my world go round...i'm reaching out to a higher ground
Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Jul 29, 2010 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions
I can't help myself
look at how selfish Backstrom is! He should have passed to Knuble! I bet he learned that from that worthless good-for-nothing “leader” Ovechkin! It’s immature and representative of ted Leonsis’s leadership style!
Watching the O’s try to use strategy is like watching Mike Green trying to figure out the difference between "your" and "you’re"--Terpgrrl
Donation info for SAVES FOR KIDS 2010!! Make a difference.
by RedBirdie on Jul 29, 2010 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions 9 recs
hey, it is the second best gif in the history of the universe!
Watching the O’s try to use strategy is like watching Mike Green trying to figure out the difference between "your" and "you’re"--Terpgrrl
Donation info for SAVES FOR KIDS 2010!! Make a difference.
No, she posted it just to get a rec.
"It's always good to have vikings."
Proud member of the Oxford dictionary police.
I’m selfish like that
Watching the O’s try to use strategy is like watching Mike Green trying to figure out the difference between "your" and "you’re"--Terpgrrl
Donation info for SAVES FOR KIDS 2010!! Make a difference.
Yeah passing to himself off the boards in a manner reminiscent of Ovi. So selfish.
Ahh, my favorite gif. Especially with Nicky collapsing into Knubes arms from joyous exhaustion.
"I’m very happy to hear the news," Ovechkin said when he heard about Backstrom's longterm contract--"because he’s one of the top centers in the world, one of my best friends and we want to play together for a long time. He’s a guy who wants to stay in one place and be comfortable and win, just like me. We talk all the time about playing together, and we talked after the playoffs about how we can win in Washington."
by capsyoungguns on Jul 29, 2010 3:07 PM EDT up reply actions
“we go home now, ya?”
Watching the O’s try to use strategy is like watching Mike Green trying to figure out the difference between "your" and "you’re"--Terpgrrl
Donation info for SAVES FOR KIDS 2010!! Make a difference.
Rec.
"I’m very happy to hear the news," Ovechkin said when he heard about Backstrom's longterm contract--"because he’s one of the top centers in the world, one of my best friends and we want to play together for a long time. He’s a guy who wants to stay in one place and be comfortable and win, just like me. We talk all the time about playing together, and we talked after the playoffs about how we can win in Washington."
by capsyoungguns on Jul 29, 2010 3:09 PM EDT up reply actions
I’d call that youthful stupidity on Kane’s part and has nothing to do with his play on ice. It seems from your posts as if believe that wingers who are good at scoring are by definition selfish. So ergo Ovi who scores more goals than most with many SOGs must by definition be selfish.
"I’m very happy to hear the news," Ovechkin said when he heard about Backstrom's longterm contract--"because he’s one of the top centers in the world, one of my best friends and we want to play together for a long time. He’s a guy who wants to stay in one place and be comfortable and win, just like me. We talk all the time about playing together, and we talked after the playoffs about how we can win in Washington."
by capsyoungguns on Jul 29, 2010 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions
That’s quite a logical leap to take two examples of my discussion and apply it to the entirety of NHL wingers to assume that I think all scoring wingers are selfish.
by J.J. from Kansas on Jul 29, 2010 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Perhaps. But I’m still at a loss why you think Ovi is selfish. I was extrapolating.
"I’m very happy to hear the news," Ovechkin said when he heard about Backstrom's longterm contract--"because he’s one of the top centers in the world, one of my best friends and we want to play together for a long time. He’s a guy who wants to stay in one place and be comfortable and win, just like me. We talk all the time about playing together, and we talked after the playoffs about how we can win in Washington."
by capsyoungguns on Jul 29, 2010 2:57 PM EDT up reply actions
See you just validated my initial impression of your comment—an outsider who is a fan of another team and isn’t watching or judging Ovi objectively.
For the record, I am not about to claim that Kane is a selfish player because I have no idea and am not about to assume anything.
"I’m very happy to hear the news," Ovechkin said when he heard about Backstrom's longterm contract--"because he’s one of the top centers in the world, one of my best friends and we want to play together for a long time. He’s a guy who wants to stay in one place and be comfortable and win, just like me. We talk all the time about playing together, and we talked after the playoffs about how we can win in Washington."
by capsyoungguns on Jul 29, 2010 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions
That Crosby is so selfish getting all those goals for his team. How dare he!
"I’m very happy to hear the news," Ovechkin said when he heard about Backstrom's longterm contract--"because he’s one of the top centers in the world, one of my best friends and we want to play together for a long time. He’s a guy who wants to stay in one place and be comfortable and win, just like me. We talk all the time about playing together, and we talked after the playoffs about how we can win in Washington."
by capsyoungguns on Jul 29, 2010 2:14 PM EDT up reply actions
I can’t even pretend to take you seriously.
Watching the O’s try to use strategy is like watching Mike Green trying to figure out the difference between "your" and "you’re"--Terpgrrl
Donation info for SAVES FOR KIDS 2010!! Make a difference.
Stick raising as a measure of leadership? Don’t see what one has to do with the other.
I don’t know the “the idea” that Ovechkin’s selfish has to do with anything, because the reality is that he isn’t. If people outside the team think that, fine. But I’d be shocked if his teammates did.
Where did Leonsis say the team had nothing left to prove? He’s generally been pretty consistent with his “the Cup’s the goal and until we win it, we haven’t achieved much” approach.
by David M. Getz on Jul 29, 2010 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
That’s true. i don’t recall Ted ever saying that. He’s been steadfast in his desire to win the Cup.
Also, you don’t like owners who blog????
"I’m very happy to hear the news," Ovechkin said when he heard about Backstrom's longterm contract--"because he’s one of the top centers in the world, one of my best friends and we want to play together for a long time. He’s a guy who wants to stay in one place and be comfortable and win, just like me. We talk all the time about playing together, and we talked after the playoffs about how we can win in Washington."
by capsyoungguns on Jul 29, 2010 2:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Sorry—second part not meant for you.
"I’m very happy to hear the news," Ovechkin said when he heard about Backstrom's longterm contract--"because he’s one of the top centers in the world, one of my best friends and we want to play together for a long time. He’s a guy who wants to stay in one place and be comfortable and win, just like me. We talk all the time about playing together, and we talked after the playoffs about how we can win in Washington."
by capsyoungguns on Jul 29, 2010 2:15 PM EDT up reply actions
What does Ted responding to what Talbot said have to do with anything? He has a blog and likes to communicate directly with the fans, what’s wrong with that? Also, when did he say that the Caps had nothing left to prove after they won the President’s Trophy? Do you have the link?
Lobbies: Green, Carlson, Orlov
I think that, while it’s interesting, it’s also unprofessional and the voice he uses in his blog reflects on what I view as the attitude of the whole organization.
It’s the business professionals’ version of feeding the trolls.
by J.J. from Kansas on Jul 29, 2010 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions
What, exactly do I need to back up here? Do I need a specific example of why I think it’s unprofessional for Ted Leonsis to write about Max Talbot’s statements on Ovechkin?
I don’t understand the question. I could write a 97-page thesis on this thing and I feel I’ll be told that my examples are poor. Do you have any examples as to why my opinion on this matter is not valid?
by J.J. from Kansas on Jul 29, 2010 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions
yes, you need to be able to point to several items on Ted’s blog and explain why you think they’re unprofessional. You need to be able to back up your statements with a little more than “because I said it’s unprofessional.selfish/bad.”
Watching the O’s try to use strategy is like watching Mike Green trying to figure out the difference between "your" and "you’re"--Terpgrrl
Donation info for SAVES FOR KIDS 2010!! Make a difference.
How many examples of an unprofessional statement on Ted’s blog do I need to satisfy your request?
by J.J. from Kansas on Jul 29, 2010 2:30 PM EDT up reply actions
One for every time you respond to a request for the basis for your reasoning by asking why you should have to give it.
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Jul 29, 2010 2:32 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
You could begin with one. I even start it for you: “It was inappropriate for Ted Leonsis to respond to Max Talbot’s comments because ________________________________”
You perhaps knew me better as "Your Nation's Capital." Same great commentary, now with 100% more transparency!
by EmilyB on Jul 29, 2010 2:33 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Because, in my opinion, it’s the business professionals’ version of feeding the trolls. I think that a man of his position getting himself involved in a squabble like that is beneath his position.
by J.J. from Kansas on Jul 29, 2010 2:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Actually, I thought it was a perfectly professional thing to do, given Mr. Leonsis’s profession as chairman of a holding company that owns the Washington Capitals.
Ted Leonsis has often said that owning a sports team is a public trust. What he means by this is that he is accountable to the public who purchase tickets and follow the games. As a method of being accountable to the public, he has set up his blog as a way to communicate his thoughts about the team, to explain how he hopes the organization pursues a rebuild, his plans for the VC, etc. The blog is perfectly in line with his ideas about sports ownership.
And posting a link to a video of Ovechkin hitting Max Talbot is a wink-and-nod to the rest of the fans that he’s aware of that which the fans are aware, and an implicit recognition that rivalries are important to the public he serves.
Would not saying anything also have been professional? Sure. But I think that stirring the pot a little bit every once in a while is perfectly in keeping with how he views – and, on a personal level, I view – his professional responsibility.
by Wheeler on Jul 29, 2010 2:44 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
You came in and made blanket statements with no examples. How can we tell if your examples are poor if you don’t have any. Your statements thus far just reflect a prejudicial viewpoint, from Ovi to Bruce to Ted. Gotcha. You don’t like the Caps.
"I’m very happy to hear the news," Ovechkin said when he heard about Backstrom's longterm contract--"because he’s one of the top centers in the world, one of my best friends and we want to play together for a long time. He’s a guy who wants to stay in one place and be comfortable and win, just like me. We talk all the time about playing together, and we talked after the playoffs about how we can win in Washington."
by capsyoungguns on Jul 29, 2010 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Oooh, responding to a request for evidence with defensiveness. You’re good at this. You might be able to generate 30, maybe 40 irritated responses in this thread before people catch on to your game and stop engaging.
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Jul 29, 2010 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Gotcha
"I’m very happy to hear the news," Ovechkin said when he heard about Backstrom's longterm contract--"because he’s one of the top centers in the world, one of my best friends and we want to play together for a long time. He’s a guy who wants to stay in one place and be comfortable and win, just like me. We talk all the time about playing together, and we talked after the playoffs about how we can win in Washington."
by capsyoungguns on Jul 29, 2010 2:30 PM EDT up reply actions
but I’m so bored now that the Nats game is in rain delay! Really, this is the most interesting thing to happen in my life since I nearly had a Miguel Batista-induced heart attack Tuesday night.
j/k, G.O.D :) I’ll let him slink back to Winging It and tell them how big and mean we all are.
Watching the O’s try to use strategy is like watching Mike Green trying to figure out the difference between "your" and "you’re"--Terpgrrl
Donation info for SAVES FOR KIDS 2010!! Make a difference.
It’s the business professionals’ version of feeding the trolls.
A powerful statement when delivered by an expert.
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Jul 29, 2010 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Of course you are entitled to your opinion but personally I don’t find the things he says unprofessional at all. Sometimes I may not agree with some of his opinions or points of view (like the time he posted that “A win is a win but I would rather beat teams 2 to 1 than 8 to 1”) but that’s Ok. I appreciate the time and effort he spends communicating directly with the fans of all his teams, not just Caps fans.
Lobbies: Green, Carlson, Orlov
You don’t like owners who blog???? Doesn’t fit into your idea of what a proper owner should do?
"I’m very happy to hear the news," Ovechkin said when he heard about Backstrom's longterm contract--"because he’s one of the top centers in the world, one of my best friends and we want to play together for a long time. He’s a guy who wants to stay in one place and be comfortable and win, just like me. We talk all the time about playing together, and we talked after the playoffs about how we can win in Washington."
by capsyoungguns on Jul 29, 2010 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Ovie is strong on sportsmanship. How do you know he didn’t rip the team a new one in the locker room for not saluting the fans. There were so many players not on the ice who normally wouldn’t forget the fans that I think they were acting in an unthinking fog. They were gone before Ovie could do anything about it.
(Yes, I know about the avatar hounding - just pretend mine is invisible.)
I wouldn’t call Ovie selfish. At most, he’s transitioning from having to carry the team for years to finally having reliable talent around him who can share the burden. He’s increasingly showing his trust in his teammates.
Plus, his personality celebrates his teammates achievements as much as his own.
(Yes, I know about the avatar hounding - just pretend mine is invisible.)
Indeed. His line is a joy to watch, they are so in sync.
"I’m very happy to hear the news," Ovechkin said when he heard about Backstrom's longterm contract--"because he’s one of the top centers in the world, one of my best friends and we want to play together for a long time. He’s a guy who wants to stay in one place and be comfortable and win, just like me. We talk all the time about playing together, and we talked after the playoffs about how we can win in Washington."
by capsyoungguns on Jul 29, 2010 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Because its fun here, there are intelligent fans in abundance, and because this thread is for any and all hockey talk.
On the Forecheck: preaching the Predators' gospel to the unwashed masses.
by Chris Burton on Jul 29, 2010 1:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, no.
On the Forecheck: preaching the Predators' gospel to the unwashed masses.
by Chris Burton on Jul 29, 2010 1:51 PM EDT up reply actions
but…but…you love GreenLife52!
Watching the O’s try to use strategy is like watching Mike Green trying to figure out the difference between "your" and "you’re"--Terpgrrl
Donation info for SAVES FOR KIDS 2010!! Make a difference.
Yeah, we’re BFFs.
On the Forecheck: preaching the Predators' gospel to the unwashed masses.
by Chris Burton on Jul 29, 2010 1:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Weber may be great in the locker room and a great leader for the Preds but so is Ovi for the Caps. Why are you assuming that Ted and BB somehow cover for him. Do you know something in particular or are you just reacting as a fan of another team thereby making unwarranted assumptions. We fans here can say with certainty that the team’s chemistry on and off the ice with Ovi as their leader is great. That is one of the many strengths of this team.
"I’m very happy to hear the news," Ovechkin said when he heard about Backstrom's longterm contract--"because he’s one of the top centers in the world, one of my best friends and we want to play together for a long time. He’s a guy who wants to stay in one place and be comfortable and win, just like me. We talk all the time about playing together, and we talked after the playoffs about how we can win in Washington."
by capsyoungguns on Jul 29, 2010 1:48 PM EDT up reply actions
lets remember that ov was somewhat surprisingly made captain this year. there was clearly no indication that clark would not remain captain for the full season. so while it took a few weeks to finally name him, it was still pretty sudden. lets give him at least the start of this season before we form any opinions about his captain ability.
boudreau and leonsis dont “cover” for him any more or less than other coaches/owners cover for their players…its not a caps or ov thing.
ov definitely has some things to learn about captaincy. he didnt call out greenie for his suspension hit when knubs and laich did amoung some other things. give him some time.
Just trying to capture the spirit of the thing...
by dcsportsfan1 on Jul 29, 2010 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions
I’ll happily give him some time. I think that a lot of the talk around here has skewed the original point. I put Ovechkin behind Shea Weber on a list of people I’d build a franchise around. I didn’t call Ovechkin a bad captain, I said that I believe Weber is a better captain based on his leadership, which I fully admit is an intangible metric and is completely subjective.
by J.J. from Kansas on Jul 29, 2010 2:40 PM EDT up reply actions
so your assertion is that right now webber is a better captain than ov. i’m ok with that. its your opinion and is probably shared by others.
from your initial comment, i dont think ov has the attitude issues that you allude to. there have been a couple of well publicised incidents with ov which people love to portray as "attitude issues’. anyone who gets to follow him day to day knows that ov’s attitude is great and that has absolutely no bearing on his ability to lead this team.
Just trying to capture the spirit of the thing...
by dcsportsfan1 on Jul 29, 2010 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions
imo, “better captain” is an entirely different argument from “guy I would build a franchise around” and yet JJ is insisting they’re the same. And Weber seems like a nice guy and he’s inching towards “elite” status, but it’s Alex Friggin’ Ovechkin. He’s a generational talent. I’d happily build my team around him nay day.
Watching the O’s try to use strategy is like watching Mike Green trying to figure out the difference between "your" and "you’re"--Terpgrrl
Donation info for SAVES FOR KIDS 2010!! Make a difference.
Me too.
"I’m very happy to hear the news," Ovechkin said when he heard about Backstrom's longterm contract--"because he’s one of the top centers in the world, one of my best friends and we want to play together for a long time. He’s a guy who wants to stay in one place and be comfortable and win, just like me. We talk all the time about playing together, and we talked after the playoffs about how we can win in Washington."
by capsyoungguns on Jul 29, 2010 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions
They’re totally different discussions, exactly.
On the Forecheck: preaching the Predators' gospel to the unwashed masses.
by Chris Burton on Jul 29, 2010 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions
I have not once insisted that “better captain” means the same as “guy I would build a franchise around”. You have incorrectly inferred that.
The correct inference would be that I think the difference in Weber’s ability to lead a team as captain makes up for their differences in scoring or defensive ability. If you disagree that Ovechkin should be behind Weber then I can appreciate that, but don’t assume that I am using the ability to lead a team as the sole subjective criteria for my ratings.
by J.J. from Kansas on Jul 29, 2010 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions
really? because you’re the one who wrote this:
I put Ovechkin behind Shea Weber on a list of people I’d build a franchise around. I didn’t call Ovechkin a bad captain, I said that I believe Weber is a better captain based on his leadership, which I fully admit is an intangible metric and is completely subjective.
Watching the O’s try to use strategy is like watching Mike Green trying to figure out the difference between "your" and "you’re"--Terpgrrl
Donation info for SAVES FOR KIDS 2010!! Make a difference.
At this point, I should probably return the comment about being able to take a person seriously. You are either being intentionally obtuse or ridiculously stubborn, but I don’t believe that, from discussing this manner with you to this point, you’re so dumb as to overlook the reference to a previously made point.
by J.J. from Kansas on Jul 29, 2010 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions
I think you’ve tied yourself up in so many knots that you’re not even sure what you’ve written any more. You’re clearly including what you consider “leadership” when determining who to build a franchise around.
Watching the O’s try to use strategy is like watching Mike Green trying to figure out the difference between "your" and "you’re"--Terpgrrl
Donation info for SAVES FOR KIDS 2010!! Make a difference.
I don’t deny that I’ve clearly included what I consider “leadership” when I determine who to build a franchise around. However, you took the step further to assume that leadership is the sole determining factor in my ranking. I think Kris Draper is a better leader than about half of the people on my ranking list, but he’s not there because there are significant other factors which make him a poor candidate for a player around whom I’d build a franchise.
by J.J. from Kansas on Jul 29, 2010 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions
no, I’m saying you’re ranking leadership too heavily.
Watching the O’s try to use strategy is like watching Mike Green trying to figure out the difference between "your" and "you’re"--Terpgrrl
Donation info for SAVES FOR KIDS 2010!! Make a difference.
really? Because you’re the one who wrote this:
imo, "better captain" is an entirely different argument from "guy I would build a franchise around" and yet JJ is insisting they’re the same
by J.J. from Kansas on Jul 29, 2010 3:28 PM EDT up reply actions
you’re ranking them so heavily as to basically be the same. Nice try with Kris Draper, though. I actually like him as a player, but if you’re ranking plays on their skill, he’s so far down the list so as to not be worthwhile for this discussion.
Watching the O’s try to use strategy is like watching Mike Green trying to figure out the difference between "your" and "you’re"--Terpgrrl
Donation info for SAVES FOR KIDS 2010!! Make a difference.
And now you’ve gone from defensive to attacking. Poor show.
May I encourage you to familiarize yourself with our Community Guidelines? Because calling a someone “intentionally obtuse” and “so dumb” isn’t just a poor way to make friends — it’s also a violation of our rules.
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Jul 29, 2010 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
can you blame a guy after he has been hounded for his OPINION?
by Casey Richey on Jul 29, 2010 3:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, you were warned. And when you finally came up with some examples, it was about Kane. If you are going to be free with your criticisms of Ovi, BB, and Leonsis, then be prepared to back up your argument. Use examples and don’t rely on tired old memes, i.e. Ovi=selfish. And don’t call others names. Or Talbot might call you a douche.
"I’m very happy to hear the news," Ovechkin said when he heard about Backstrom's longterm contract--"because he’s one of the top centers in the world, one of my best friends and we want to play together for a long time. He’s a guy who wants to stay in one place and be comfortable and win, just like me. We talk all the time about playing together, and we talked after the playoffs about how we can win in Washington."
by capsyoungguns on Jul 29, 2010 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Nah, sorry.
"I’m very happy to hear the news," Ovechkin said when he heard about Backstrom's longterm contract--"because he’s one of the top centers in the world, one of my best friends and we want to play together for a long time. He’s a guy who wants to stay in one place and be comfortable and win, just like me. We talk all the time about playing together, and we talked after the playoffs about how we can win in Washington."
by capsyoungguns on Jul 29, 2010 3:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Oops, wrong person. Sorry.
Change all pronouns to third person.
"I’m very happy to hear the news," Ovechkin said when he heard about Backstrom's longterm contract--"because he’s one of the top centers in the world, one of my best friends and we want to play together for a long time. He’s a guy who wants to stay in one place and be comfortable and win, just like me. We talk all the time about playing together, and we talked after the playoffs about how we can win in Washington."
by capsyoungguns on Jul 29, 2010 3:33 PM EDT up reply actions
You came in much later. He was welcomed and warned but the beginning of the thread is in the stratosphere by now.
"I’m very happy to hear the news," Ovechkin said when he heard about Backstrom's longterm contract--"because he’s one of the top centers in the world, one of my best friends and we want to play together for a long time. He’s a guy who wants to stay in one place and be comfortable and win, just like me. We talk all the time about playing together, and we talked after the playoffs about how we can win in Washington."
by capsyoungguns on Jul 29, 2010 3:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, I noticed he’s been laying pretty low.
"I’m very happy to hear the news," Ovechkin said when he heard about Backstrom's longterm contract--"because he’s one of the top centers in the world, one of my best friends and we want to play together for a long time. He’s a guy who wants to stay in one place and be comfortable and win, just like me. We talk all the time about playing together, and we talked after the playoffs about how we can win in Washington."
by capsyoungguns on Jul 29, 2010 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions
he’s in OTOT discussing Miss Iowa.
personally, I blame it on the Red Wings fans.
Watching the O’s try to use strategy is like watching Mike Green trying to figure out the difference between "your" and "you’re"--Terpgrrl
Donation info for SAVES FOR KIDS 2010!! Make a difference.
so nice of him to run around and criticize my newest writer in a forum where he knows he wont be outnumbered.
by Casey Richey on Jul 29, 2010 3:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Got no issue with JJ, just the opinions. All I wanted to do was discuss NHL building blocks, anyway:
On the Forecheck: preaching the Predators' gospel to the unwashed masses.
by Chris Burton on Jul 29, 2010 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions
then why have you ridiculed two of his three posts thus far? Is it really necessary? That’s all I’m getting at.
by Casey Richey on Jul 29, 2010 3:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Because I disagreed vehemently with both of them, thats all – I’ve disagreed with things JP has written and things Dirk has written, its not a big deal. I just post them here because its the best place I know of to talk hockey intelligently.
I’m leaving it at this, because we’ve sufficiently hijacked the thread and its getting nowhere fast.
On the Forecheck: preaching the Predators' gospel to the unwashed masses.
by Chris Burton on Jul 29, 2010 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions
fair enough. I’ll drop it as well. I was just saying give him some slack is all.
by Casey Richey on Jul 29, 2010 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions
taking potshots at CB, who is a valued member of our community, regardless of his team affiliation, isn’t going to fly here, buddy.
Watching the O’s try to use strategy is like watching Mike Green trying to figure out the difference between "your" and "you’re"--Terpgrrl
Donation info for SAVES FOR KIDS 2010!! Make a difference.
Well you don’t drop a gas bomb and stick around for the flame war afterward…
And I thought Tom Soehn was a shitty coach.
by Bald Pollack on Jul 29, 2010 3:38 PM EDT up reply actions
this is true. you crack open a beer and sit far, far away.
by Casey Richey on Jul 29, 2010 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Gotta go check it out then.
"I’m very happy to hear the news," Ovechkin said when he heard about Backstrom's longterm contract--"because he’s one of the top centers in the world, one of my best friends and we want to play together for a long time. He’s a guy who wants to stay in one place and be comfortable and win, just like me. We talk all the time about playing together, and we talked after the playoffs about how we can win in Washington."
by capsyoungguns on Jul 29, 2010 5:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Always a good idea.
On the Forecheck: preaching the Predators' gospel to the unwashed masses.
by Chris Burton on Jul 29, 2010 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh hey there. Catchin’ up?
"I’m very happy to hear the news," Ovechkin said when he heard about Backstrom's longterm contract--"because he’s one of the top centers in the world, one of my best friends and we want to play together for a long time. He’s a guy who wants to stay in one place and be comfortable and win, just like me. We talk all the time about playing together, and we talked after the playoffs about how we can win in Washington."
by capsyoungguns on Jul 29, 2010 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions
I’ve been around the whole time, just reading. No desire at all to jump into semantics and personal attacks, I just posted the link so we could talk about who you’d build a team around. My bad, people.
On the Forecheck: preaching the Predators' gospel to the unwashed masses.
by Chris Burton on Jul 29, 2010 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions
terrible of you to post something to start an interesting discussion in JULY. terrible, CB, just awful. do you even know what hockey is, southerner?
Watching the O’s try to use strategy is like watching Mike Green trying to figure out the difference between "your" and "you’re"--Terpgrrl
Donation info for SAVES FOR KIDS 2010!! Make a difference.
Just jokin’. It’s been lively around here. Wait we need an enforcer for this thread.
"I’m very happy to hear the news," Ovechkin said when he heard about Backstrom's longterm contract--"because he’s one of the top centers in the world, one of my best friends and we want to play together for a long time. He’s a guy who wants to stay in one place and be comfortable and win, just like me. We talk all the time about playing together, and we talked after the playoffs about how we can win in Washington."
by capsyoungguns on Jul 29, 2010 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Okay so who’s our bleeder?
"I’m very happy to hear the news," Ovechkin said when he heard about Backstrom's longterm contract--"because he’s one of the top centers in the world, one of my best friends and we want to play together for a long time. He’s a guy who wants to stay in one place and be comfortable and win, just like me. We talk all the time about playing together, and we talked after the playoffs about how we can win in Washington."
by capsyoungguns on Jul 29, 2010 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh I don’t know Redbirdie might be a contender too.
needsmorebradley
"I’m very happy to hear the news," Ovechkin said when he heard about Backstrom's longterm contract--"because he’s one of the top centers in the world, one of my best friends and we want to play together for a long time. He’s a guy who wants to stay in one place and be comfortable and win, just like me. We talk all the time about playing together, and we talked after the playoffs about how we can win in Washington."
by capsyoungguns on Jul 29, 2010 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions
I did cut my finger last night.
Kung Fu Rink Rabbit!
Watching the O’s try to use strategy is like watching Mike Green trying to figure out the difference between "your" and "you’re"--Terpgrrl
Donation info for SAVES FOR KIDS 2010!! Make a difference.
The "intentionally obtuse part I’ll give you, but he said “I don’t believe that, from discussing this manner with you to this point, you’re so dumb”. I had to re-read it but he’s saying she’s not dumb – rather that he gets the feeling the opposite is true.
Regardless I’d suggest everyone just coooool down a bit. Newcomers, check the community guidelines, oldtimers, don’t pounce all over people just because they’re new meat and don’t know better. This ain’t an easy place to dive into.
no, but it’s still implied that I might be dumb. Stubborn, yeah, I think we’ll all buy that I can be stubborn, but dumb?
Watching the O’s try to use strategy is like watching Mike Green trying to figure out the difference between "your" and "you’re"--Terpgrrl
Donation info for SAVES FOR KIDS 2010!! Make a difference.
No, I get that. I just think we need to not jump directly to that conclusion (and yes, you’re stubborn :P it’s okay, though, you could be a judgmental bitch like me).
Like I said above, this isn’t an easy place to dive into but there’s also no flashing light or warning sign when you first post a comment to say “hey, this is a different kind of blog and this is how we debate and you will be ridiculed if you don’t follow the rules”. I think everyone needs to take a breath, maybe step away for a minute and not get all snappy with each other. Yet.
We need more great gifs. Watching Nicky’s OT goal made me feel warm and fuzzy again.
"I’m very happy to hear the news," Ovechkin said when he heard about Backstrom's longterm contract--"because he’s one of the top centers in the world, one of my best friends and we want to play together for a long time. He’s a guy who wants to stay in one place and be comfortable and win, just like me. We talk all the time about playing together, and we talked after the playoffs about how we can win in Washington."
by capsyoungguns on Jul 29, 2010 3:38 PM EDT up reply actions
I was tempted to post Real American Hero’s game winner gif and explain how he’s so selfish. I mean, why was he leading the rush?! clearly, Ovechkin’s bad influence trickles all the way to Hershey.
Watching the O’s try to use strategy is like watching Mike Green trying to figure out the difference between "your" and "you’re"--Terpgrrl
Donation info for SAVES FOR KIDS 2010!! Make a difference.
And then he had the nerve to celebrate first by himself on one knee. Geez.
"I’m very happy to hear the news," Ovechkin said when he heard about Backstrom's longterm contract--"because he’s one of the top centers in the world, one of my best friends and we want to play together for a long time. He’s a guy who wants to stay in one place and be comfortable and win, just like me. We talk all the time about playing together, and we talked after the playoffs about how we can win in Washington."
by capsyoungguns on Jul 29, 2010 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions
And get rewarded with a bobblehead, too.
"It's always good to have vikings."
Proud member of the Oxford dictionary police.
Love my bobbleheads—especially my newest.
"I’m very happy to hear the news," Ovechkin said when he heard about Backstrom's longterm contract--"because he’s one of the top centers in the world, one of my best friends and we want to play together for a long time. He’s a guy who wants to stay in one place and be comfortable and win, just like me. We talk all the time about playing together, and we talked after the playoffs about how we can win in Washington."
by capsyoungguns on Jul 29, 2010 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions
people don’t like my judgmental bitch side :) So I try and me nice before I whip out the claws and disembowel someone for having an unsubstantiated conclusion!
Watching the O’s try to use strategy is like watching Mike Green trying to figure out the difference between "your" and "you’re"--Terpgrrl
Donation info for SAVES FOR KIDS 2010!! Make a difference.
The warning has been heeded, but I would like to clarify that the entire context of that comment was saying that I think RedBirdie is intelligent enough to understand the entire context.
Besides, this was all after I was told that I could not be taken seriously. I understand that, as an outsider, I’m given significantly less leeway for these types of misunderstandings, but in no way do I think RedBirdie is dumb. I absolutely called her stubborn, but that doesn’t seem to be considered much of a character flaw or a personal attack, is it?
I would however like to say that I think it’s a bit ridiculous that this entire discussion about one of my blog posts at SBNation has taken place at this blog. It seems as though I have to be taken to uneven footing to defend myself from accusations that I don’t know what I’m talking about.
by J.J. from Kansas on Jul 29, 2010 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Cheers — I misunderstood
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Jul 29, 2010 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Look, to be fair anything you post on the internet is fair game for us to talk about – this is a Clips thread, and as you’ll see from what we link to (and what we’ve talked about in other daily Clips threads) it’s not always Caps-centric.
Your list was an interesting basis for discussion and mentioned (or didn’t mention) some of our players so it became conversation fodder. It’s July 29, that’s what happens around here. If you want to bring people back to your site to talk about it, feel free to encourage people to jump over and talk about it there with you; people are happy to do so. But if you keep engaging everyone in discussion here, they’ll stay here.
Anyway. As one of the Rink’s associate editors…welcome to the Rink? :)
see, I don’t get this. You put something out on the internet, it’s fair game for people to discuss it elsewhere.
Watching the O’s try to use strategy is like watching Mike Green trying to figure out the difference between "your" and "you’re"--Terpgrrl
Donation info for SAVES FOR KIDS 2010!! Make a difference.
I’d like to tie ^ comment to this one from David M. Getz:
I thought America worked by finding whatever echo chamber suited your pre-existing ideas and sitting in it until you were even more confident in them.
Or is that just people who are really in to politics?
by J.J. from Kansas on Jul 29, 2010 7:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Your original post was fine. It was your next one in which you laid out your opinion on Ovi and the team’s in which you resorted to stuff we Caps fans are tired of hearing without backing up your argument with examples.
You managed to touch upon all the key figures in one post in an negative cliched way. There were some parts worth discussing, such as whether BB can coach in the playoffs, but you basically said you didn’t like anybody. So you set off a firestorm.
"I’m very happy to hear the news," Ovechkin said when he heard about Backstrom's longterm contract--"because he’s one of the top centers in the world, one of my best friends and we want to play together for a long time. He’s a guy who wants to stay in one place and be comfortable and win, just like me. We talk all the time about playing together, and we talked after the playoffs about how we can win in Washington."
by capsyoungguns on Jul 29, 2010 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Sorry to have offended anybody, but I still can’t really grasp the concept of asking for quantitative measures on subjective ideas. I think Ovechkin is selfish from the relatively small sample size of games in which I’ve seen him play. I won’t deny that this is also probably heavily influenced by the masses of people. For instance, when Talbot called Ovi a douche, there wasn’t a huge outcry from non-Caps fans saying that Talbot was wrong. But, I’ll admit, I don’t know Ovechkin as well as you guys do.
For the Boudreau thing, I think that the talk that’s followed those statements has helped validate my opinion.
The Leonsis issue is truly personal. I happen to think that he’s unprofessional when he reacts to minor issues like this. I don’t claim to be an expert in business, just something with which I disagree.
I’ve had to look for a reason the Capitals have underperformed in the playoffs for the last two seasons the same as each of you has, I just don’t have an emotional tie. I don’t deny there are mitigating circumstances for everything, but I think that Boudreau should take a large part of the blame and it was part of what I was getting at when I ranked him at #6 on my list. I don’t know how Ovechkin, as the most explosive raw talent in hockey, would react if I built a franchise around him that didn’t have Leonsis as the owner or Boudreau as the coach. My previous experience with very talented Russians and systems was strongly influenced by Sergei Fedorov’s early career and he was a walking attitude problem that I certainly loved having on my team, but would not have built a franchise around.
by J.J. from Kansas on Jul 29, 2010 3:57 PM EDT up reply actions
I think Ovechkin is selfish from the relatively small sample size of games in which I’ve seen him play. I won’t deny that this is also probably heavily influenced by the masses of people.
sigh. So, you’re working from a small sample size and you’re aren’t looking at him objectively.
My previous experience with very talented Russians and systems was strongly influenced by Sergei Fedorov’s early career and he was a walking attitude problem…
Ah, yes, the “all Russians are walking attitude problems” line of thought. They couldn’t possibly be individuals. And for all of Fedorov’s numerous faults and impressive track record of burning bridges, he was beloved in DC. We were extremely fortunate to see him reinvigorated and as a team leader. People grow, people find the right place for them, people mature. One of the reasons he was brought back was because so many players told McPhee how great of a leader he was.
Watching the O’s try to use strategy is like watching Mike Green trying to figure out the difference between "your" and "you’re"--Terpgrrl
Donation info for SAVES FOR KIDS 2010!! Make a difference.
I’m asking you to please stop taking my statements out of concept to make them more ridiculous than they seem. If I thought all Russians were walking attitude problems, I would not have included two of them on my top ten list of people around whom I’d build a franchise. I see some traits that Ovechkin and a young Fedorov had in common (although I think young Fedorov had more in common with Semin). Once again, this is part of the reason Ovi was sixth on my list, not a damnation of Ovi as a worthless player or leader.
I am as objective about Ovi as I can be. Nobody can claim that the opinions they read don’t influence them.
by J.J. from Kansas on Jul 29, 2010 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions
I only work with what you give me. You’re the one who implied that talented Russians must have attitude problems because Fedorov was a talented Russian with an attitude problem.
And, no, you’ve not been very objective about Ovechkin today.
Watching the O’s try to use strategy is like watching Mike Green trying to figure out the difference between "your" and "you’re"--Terpgrrl
Donation info for SAVES FOR KIDS 2010!! Make a difference.
A lot of people here are so wrapped up in love with Ovechkin that if you make any post negatively about him they assume you don’t know what you’re talking about, or we’re all speaking from personal bias. From a third party, I can see your point as valid.
"Don't mind WM...he's an all-around jerk."
by Whiter Mage on Jul 29, 2010 5:05 PM EDT up reply actions 5 recs
I can’t rec this enough.
And I thought Tom Soehn was a shitty coach.
by Bald Pollack on Jul 29, 2010 5:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Agree with both of you that we all need to keep separate the love for a particular player from the analysis or criticism of that player. Objectivity is key.
But I also believe that it is incumbent upon us to call out those who make lazy characterizations that need factual or visual or statistical support.
Otherwise I’ve just spent the good portion of the afternoon doing nothing worthwhile. (This is me in a defensive posture with eye strain.)
"I’m very happy to hear the news," Ovechkin said when he heard about Backstrom's longterm contract--"because he’s one of the top centers in the world, one of my best friends and we want to play together for a long time. He’s a guy who wants to stay in one place and be comfortable and win, just like me. We talk all the time about playing together, and we talked after the playoffs about how we can win in Washington."
by capsyoungguns on Jul 29, 2010 5:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, Ovi was pretty amazing here before BB. So yeah he’s pretty amazing in pretty much any circumstance, and if he were on your team you would find him pretty amazing too. The selfish stuff is very old and tired. It’s a lazy characterization of him. It’s fine not to like his style, but he’s anything but selfish.
Leonsis’ style is unique. To each his own I guess. I don’t mind his transparency.
BB’s abilities to take it to the next level are yet to be seen and we here at Japers’ have discussed it ad nauseum. But all you said was that you didn’t like him, which I took to mean it was something personal—his attire, the way he conducts himself in interviews. He’s got strengths and weaknesses, but players do love him and he does get a lot out of his players.
As for playoff failure analysis, go into the Japers’ archives. Needless to say it was discussed to death and there were many perceptive observations—much better than Ovi is selfish and not a good leader.
"I’m very happy to hear the news," Ovechkin said when he heard about Backstrom's longterm contract--"because he’s one of the top centers in the world, one of my best friends and we want to play together for a long time. He’s a guy who wants to stay in one place and be comfortable and win, just like me. We talk all the time about playing together, and we talked after the playoffs about how we can win in Washington."
by capsyoungguns on Jul 29, 2010 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions
I apologize for the characterization that Ovechkin is not a good leader. I did let myself get sidetracked there. The point remains that I think Ovechkin’s leadership ability is questionable as compared to the people in front of him on my list, despite that I think he’s a more talented player than all of them, but I do not want to say that I think Ovechkin is a bad leader.
by J.J. from Kansas on Jul 29, 2010 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Apology accepted. I will have to look at your list from the leadership angle but I will say that IMO Ovi has been a great leader for this team. When he got the C on Jan. 5th (I believe that’s the day) the team went on its 14 game winning streak and got to 121 points. The team chose him unanimously as their captain.
I also believe that Ovi can improve as captain. He tends to take the burden of blame onto his shoulders rather than hold others accountable. But he’s had only half a season as captain. He will learn. Of this I have no doubt.
"I’m very happy to hear the news," Ovechkin said when he heard about Backstrom's longterm contract--"because he’s one of the top centers in the world, one of my best friends and we want to play together for a long time. He’s a guy who wants to stay in one place and be comfortable and win, just like me. We talk all the time about playing together, and we talked after the playoffs about how we can win in Washington."
by capsyoungguns on Jul 29, 2010 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t know how Ovechkin, as the most explosive raw talent in hockey, would react if I built a franchise around him that didn’t have Leonsis as the owner or Boudreau as the coach.
Answer: He would be the most explosive raw talent in hockey in any franchise. Ovi managed to score a lot his first two seasons within Hanlon’s defensive system. BB simply took the team around him and made it better. It was a remarkable turnaround.
"I’m very happy to hear the news," Ovechkin said when he heard about Backstrom's longterm contract--"because he’s one of the top centers in the world, one of my best friends and we want to play together for a long time. He’s a guy who wants to stay in one place and be comfortable and win, just like me. We talk all the time about playing together, and we talked after the playoffs about how we can win in Washington."
by capsyoungguns on Jul 29, 2010 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions
I still can’t really grasp the concept of asking for quantitative measures on subjective ideas. I think Ovechkin is selfish from the relatively small sample size of games in which I’ve seen him play.
Yes, you can. Back up a claim of selfish with concrete examples.
You finally gave examples, but of Kane.
I maintain that you really haven’t watched enough of the Caps to evaluate Ovi’s play. Just watching a youtube of an Ovi highlight in which he rushing up the ice and neatly sidestepping the defender will not tell you much other than he’s very improvisational and a creative goal scorer.
"I’m very happy to hear the news," Ovechkin said when he heard about Backstrom's longterm contract--"because he’s one of the top centers in the world, one of my best friends and we want to play together for a long time. He’s a guy who wants to stay in one place and be comfortable and win, just like me. We talk all the time about playing together, and we talked after the playoffs about how we can win in Washington."
by capsyoungguns on Jul 29, 2010 4:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Concrete examples aren’t one and the same as a quantitative measure. Even if you analyze a guy’s game to death you’ll never be able to authoritatively say “Ovechkin selfishness score is 17 and Kane’s is 22, so Kane is more selfish.” Not to say examples aren’t good.
I have to admit that I still don’t understand what it is that Ovechkin does that makes JJ think he’s a selfish player, though.
by David M. Getz on Jul 29, 2010 4:27 PM EDT up reply actions
True. Hard to quantify selfish. But when he first stated that he couldn’t quantify selfish, many posters asked him for examples, which he did but with Kane.
"I’m very happy to hear the news," Ovechkin said when he heard about Backstrom's longterm contract--"because he’s one of the top centers in the world, one of my best friends and we want to play together for a long time. He’s a guy who wants to stay in one place and be comfortable and win, just like me. We talk all the time about playing together, and we talked after the playoffs about how we can win in Washington."
by capsyoungguns on Jul 29, 2010 4:33 PM EDT up reply actions
You’re right that I haven’t watched enough of the Caps to get as true an indivudual measure of how he plays compared to you. In the absence of personal longitudinal studies, I’ve had to make conclusions from secondary sources. This is a perfectly acceptable measure by which to draw opinions about a number of subjects, so I maintain that it is an acceptable measure by which to draw an opinion here. I have read arguments on both side that claim Ovi is or isn’t selfish, but I put more stock into the concept that he is based on the commenters and writers which have put their emphasis on that side of the argument. I consider myself an excellent critical thinker, so I trust my judgment and that I’m sufficiently safe from having the wool pulled over my eyes by a large sampling of people who think that way. To dismiss them on the basis that I can’t trust anybody or that I can’t possibly know that they have all of the facts is even more conspiratorial a theory than I can support as a Red Wings fan and member of Greg Wyshynski’s noted “tin-foil hat society”
by J.J. from Kansas on Jul 29, 2010 4:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Whew.
Now I have an academic background and am well versed with the use of primary and secondary sources and the importance of using one’s critical judgement in regards to evaluating those sources.
But no scholar worth his or her salt would form an opinion such as “Ovi is a selfish player” without using primary sources as well. In other words, you have to watch the games and not just rely on the opinions of writers and journalists you trust. How much of the Caps/Habs series did you watch before forming your opinion of why the Caps failed to win that series. Because there are a lot of crappy and just plain wrong opinions out there.
Moreover, I don’t even know whose opinions you value. All people, including the commentators and journalists, have agendas and personal biases. For example, if you really like Jim Kelley of SI, then you are NOT going to read anything good about Ovi.
"I’m very happy to hear the news," Ovechkin said when he heard about Backstrom's longterm contract--"because he’s one of the top centers in the world, one of my best friends and we want to play together for a long time. He’s a guy who wants to stay in one place and be comfortable and win, just like me. We talk all the time about playing together, and we talked after the playoffs about how we can win in Washington."
by capsyoungguns on Jul 29, 2010 4:44 PM EDT up reply actions
I watched part of all seven games of the Caps/Habs series and all of the last three. I noted a distinct absence of Semin’s contributions, although I thought he did look like he was trying incredibly hard to produce. I also noticed that Boudreau did not seem to make adjustments properly to take advantage of momentum that his top line had gained, causing the team to fail to carry that forward and actually wear out the Habs’ D. Finally, I thought that when scored against, it deflated the team and they all got out of their comfort level and system and played worse together.
As for primary sources, I have watched Ovechkin play, but the concept of selfish play is something that isn’t grasped fully without a lot of experience. Most people still can’t adequately describe or provide concrete examples (other than his awards case) why Nick Lidstrom is so damned effective as a defender. I’ll admit that while watching Ovechkin play, I have not been doing so with an eye specifically watching whether or not I think he was playing selfishly. I know that it wouldnt’ stand up for an academic paper, but not having seen sufficient examples of Ovechkin being not selfish has led me to fall back on the base observation.
As an aside, I’d like to point out that my opinion on Kane’s selfishness is based on primary observations of his play. I watched more than 40 Blackhawks’ games this season and I am confident that his play, while very skilled and sometimes reckless, is selfish.
by J.J. from Kansas on Jul 29, 2010 5:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh I figured that about Kane. I simply haven’t watched him enough for me to have an educated opinion. When I read commentators I look for objectivity. I inherently look for the tendencies and agendas of commentators and writers in hockey. We are all biased. We’re human. We know our own teams the best, that’s a given.
Good that you watched some of the series, but the last three games were very different from the first three. Game 5 was the killer. It’s were the series was lost IMO.
"I’m very happy to hear the news," Ovechkin said when he heard about Backstrom's longterm contract--"because he’s one of the top centers in the world, one of my best friends and we want to play together for a long time. He’s a guy who wants to stay in one place and be comfortable and win, just like me. We talk all the time about playing together, and we talked after the playoffs about how we can win in Washington."
by capsyoungguns on Jul 29, 2010 5:09 PM EDT up reply actions
At the same time, forming opinions based on other people’s opinion or conventional wisdom isn’t always the best idea. I’m sure fans of any team get frustrated with the way some points are repeated ad neaseum without support until they just become accepted fact. I think Ovechkin’s “selfishness” falls in to that category.
by David M. Getz on Jul 29, 2010 5:08 PM EDT up reply actions
…forming opinions based on other people’s opinion or conventional wisdom isn’t always the best idea.
Isn’t that how America works?
"Don't mind WM...he's an all-around jerk."
I thought America worked by finding whatever echo chamber suited your pre-existing ideas and sitting in it until you were even more confident in them.
Or is that just people who are really in to politics?
by David M. Getz on Jul 29, 2010 5:11 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Rec. Too many lazy writers out there who prefer to rehash rather than think.
"I’m very happy to hear the news," Ovechkin said when he heard about Backstrom's longterm contract--"because he’s one of the top centers in the world, one of my best friends and we want to play together for a long time. He’s a guy who wants to stay in one place and be comfortable and win, just like me. We talk all the time about playing together, and we talked after the playoffs about how we can win in Washington."
by capsyoungguns on Jul 29, 2010 5:12 PM EDT up reply actions
I’ve had to look for a reason the Capitals have underperformed in the playoffs for the last two seasons.
I’m not sure it’s fair to say that the Caps underperformed in the playoffs two seasons ago. The Pens were clearly the better team and went on to win the Stanley Cup. The Caps also not only were a very young, less talented team but had injuries to some key players and their goalie was a rookie who had played what 6 NHL games total in his career before he replaced Theo in net?
Last season they were just so terrible in the playoffs that I think everyone should share the blame for that debacle, the players, the coaches, the owner, the fans, heck even you ;)
Lobbies: Green, Carlson, Orlov
I’ll gladly take some of the blame. I admit that I was thinking of the strong schadenfreude I’d feel if they lost. :)
Also, yeah, you’re right about the previous year against the Penguins, it’s just the sting of such a horrible game seven loss is big.
by J.J. from Kansas on Jul 29, 2010 4:38 PM EDT up reply actions
And…I don’t know, I thought the Caps underperformed 2 years ago. I’d agree with that. I thought they didn’t really show up until late in the Rangers series and I kept waiting for them to show up in the Pens series. That collapse in Game 7 was not about lack of talent – in fact it was more heartbreaking because it wasn’t about that.
I actually found them really inconsistent—under and over-performed. Slow to get up to speed with the Rangers, then playing hard as they could against the Pens (who were the better team) before it caught up to them in game 7.
"I’m very happy to hear the news," Ovechkin said when he heard about Backstrom's longterm contract--"because he’s one of the top centers in the world, one of my best friends and we want to play together for a long time. He’s a guy who wants to stay in one place and be comfortable and win, just like me. We talk all the time about playing together, and we talked after the playoffs about how we can win in Washington."
by capsyoungguns on Jul 29, 2010 5:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, I agree. The Caps underperformed against the Rangers and to some extent against the Pens also. Less talented is not the right way to describe them either. I thought the Caps offense was more talented than the Pens’ but the Pens played better as a team no question about that and I do believe the Pens’ defense overall (Gonchar, Gill, Scuderi, Orpik, Letang, Eaton) was better than the Caps’ (Green, Poti, Erskine, Morrisonn, Jurcina & Pothier). Also, Fleury may not be a great goaltender but he was better than Varly in that series. Obviously, Varly’s inexperience probably had a lot to do with his poor performance in game 7 but the fact of the matter is that the team just didn’t show up for that game. That was a very disappointing loss indeed and to think they were up 2-0 in that series. I’m not sure if they would have made it to the SCF that year but the opportunity was there and they let it slip through their fingers.
Lobbies: Green, Carlson, Orlov
That Pens team was ridiculously good at forechecking, which was a real problem for the Caps (and everyone else in the league, but especially the Caps) because Mike Green was the only real threat to make a breakout pass or skate the puck out of the zone and get it going the right direction.
It was a combination of the Pens’ greatest strength being ideally situated to exploit the Caps biggest weakness, along with key injuries to Schultz, Semin and the aforementioned Green.
Only YOU can prevent idiots from commenting!
by Knee high to a duck on Jul 29, 2010 6:55 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m not sure it’s fair to say that the Caps underperformed in the playoffs two seasons ago.
Coming from behind against an inferior 7 seed wasn’t underperforming?
And I thought Tom Soehn was a shitty coach.
by Bald Pollack on Jul 29, 2010 5:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Hey, we’re all for good hockey talk, but let’s not take it to a personal level.
"Imagine if you go see Mrs. Universe, then you end up having Mrs. Iowa. Then you might get those kind of boos." - Miguel Batista
by Steck It Out on Jul 29, 2010 3:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, that list is ridiculous. I’m not sure Richards should even be on the list, much less at number 5 with no Keith or Doughty on the list. I can live with Miller on the list, but I’m not sure building around a goalie is the way to go anymore, especially not one with the durability issues of Miller.
And if we are building a team around a player (and not just listing the top 10 players right now) then age and potential has to come into consideration. As good as Datsyuk, Zetterberg and Thornton are there is no way in hell a 30 year old is in the top-10 to build a team around going forward. Not with all the young talent in the NHL right now. I’m not even sure I’d put Thornton on the list even disregarding his age.
Release the Mackan!
by Killer_Carlson on Jul 29, 2010 1:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Incidentally
I just found a link to Pierre McGuire’s list
1.Mike Richards
2.Mike Richards
3.Mike Richards
4.Mike Richards
5.Mike Richards
6.Mike Richards
7.Mike Richards
8.Mike Richards
9.Mike Richards
10.Mike Richards
Money don't make my world go round...i'm reaching out to a higher ground
Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Jul 29, 2010 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions 6 recs
I’ll rec that.
On the Forecheck: preaching the Predators' gospel to the unwashed masses.
by Chris Burton on Jul 29, 2010 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Dude, you know he’d totally want Fischer on the list. DOC, THE LEADERSHIP FISCHER IS SHOWING IS JUST INCREDIBLE I KNOW YOU CAN’T PICK IT UP FROM UP THERE BUT HE’S SUCH A GREAT LEADER!!
Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?
I thought he had to retire with heart problems?
Money don't make my world go round...i'm reaching out to a higher ground
Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Jul 29, 2010 1:57 PM EDT up reply actions
In fairness, he did clarify in the comments that it was for the upcoming year only, or something to that tune.
On the Forecheck: preaching the Predators' gospel to the unwashed masses.
by Chris Burton on Jul 29, 2010 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions
To build around? Here’s my 11 — 6 forwards, 4 D and 1 G
Ovechkin – Crosby – Nash
Parise – Toews – Stamkos
Keith – Weber
Doughty – Green
Ryan Miller
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Jul 29, 2010 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions
A LOT of love for a guy who’s never topped 70 points in a season, playing on some high scoring teams. If we are talking about a team for one year, next year I’d take Mikko Koivu over him.
But seriously, I would.
or a guy who has the best forward at the olympics award, a gold medal, captaining a Stanley cup winner and a Conn Smythe.
by Casey Richey on Jul 29, 2010 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions
the gold medal and Stanley Cup are team awards. I can’t stand when people bring the “but he has a cup/gold medal/etc/etc!” argument. There are great players without those things, and there are some real scrubs with them.
Watching the O’s try to use strategy is like watching Mike Green trying to figure out the difference between "your" and "you’re"--Terpgrrl
Donation info for SAVES FOR KIDS 2010!! Make a difference.
Yes. I understand they’re team awards but pretty much by winning the forward award at the olympics and the conn smythe award, it’s pretty apparent how much success depended upon you as a player.
by Casey Richey on Jul 29, 2010 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions
But really the Conn Smythe could have gone to several different guys. More then half of the guys from the top 10 were all on the Canadian Olympic team, so really how many can it be that were difference makers?
Meanwhile every Finnish team Mikko Koivu has been on has medaled, in any international competition.
In what way? He was a dominating two-way player last season and I’m sure he’ll continue to be one going forward. It doesn’t show up in the point totals, but Toews prevents a lot of goals and that counts towards his value, too. Add in that he’s only 21 and that defensive maturity of that kind, paired with point-per-game offensive potential don’t often arrive in the same package and I think the love for him is legitimate. Put him out there against your opponent’s best line and he’s a great bet to out-score, out-shoot, and out-play it.
Only YOU can prevent idiots from commenting!
by Knee high to a duck on Jul 29, 2010 6:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Yup, that’s pretty much the level of thought. If you’re building around a team, you have to draft for on-ice production first. The truly top-end performers are soooooo much more valuable than grit or heart or whatever, which you can find aplenty in 2nd-3d liners. The argument about centers > wings has some validity, but that can be taken too far (e.g., Ovechkin is so much more valuable than Sedin it’s ridiculous).
Again, value is a different question than who you’d pick first to build a winning team. I’d start my team either at the C or the D position almost without fail, and, yeah, I’d pick Sedin to C my top line before I’d pick AO to be my 1L.
Some of this has to do with the disappointing playoff performances for 2 years in a row, of course. I’m kind of at the “show me” stage with AO (and definitely there with regards to Boudreau, Green and Semin).
Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?
Some of this has to do with the disappointing playoff performances for 2 years in a row, of course. I’m kind of at the "show me" stage with AO
16 goals and 31 assists in 21 games doesn’t do it for ya?
by David M. Getz on Jul 29, 2010 2:15 PM EDT up reply actions
and, yeah, I’d pick Sedin to C my top line before I’d pick AO to be my 1L.
…you, Milbury, and maybe Sather.
Question, which line scores more:
Ovechkin – replacement level center – replacement level right wing
replacement level left wing – Sedin – replacement level right wing
Probably the latter. Its no coincidence that Alex Burrows has dropped 28/23/51 and 35/32/67 the last two seasons.
Money don't make my world go round...i'm reaching out to a higher ground
Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Jul 29, 2010 2:37 PM EDT up reply actions
You seem to be forgetting that Zubie and Clark both had similar increases to their stat lines, and that’s with AO at wing.
by DrinkingPartner on Jul 29, 2010 2:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Hence why I says “probably”.
Money don't make my world go round...i'm reaching out to a higher ground
Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Jul 29, 2010 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions
I have to disagree with this. I think that there is often too much emphasis put on what exactly on-ice production means, since there is no stat out there that I believe reliably quantifies a player’s defensive contribution to the game. If you’re looking at only numbers, you tend to skew too far offensively. It gets even worse when they’re compared across the conferences, which have a large difference in offensive versus defensive mindsets.
I don’t think that under any truly quantitative measure, I could say that Shea Weber would bring more production to a team centered around him than Ovechkin would, but all things being equal, I can’t say that the production over a regular season is what’s going to be the difference come crunch time.
by J.J. from Kansas on Jul 29, 2010 2:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Meanwhile, back at the farm...
@jwaltonhockey BREAKING: Ashton Rome, Todd Ford and former Bridgeport enforcer Joel Rechlicz all under contract in Chocolatetown
Guess DJ King will be staying up in DC.
"HISTORY DOESN’T MATTER!!! .... Who cares if it’s never been done? We aren’t those teams who failed before. We are in control of our own destiny, and we will make it happen our own way.." - A Gordon, June 2010
Ford, really?
Watching the O’s try to use strategy is like watching Mike Green trying to figure out the difference between "your" and "you’re"--Terpgrrl
Donation info for SAVES FOR KIDS 2010!! Make a difference.
Man barricaded in Hotel standoff in Manassas
An armed man who barricaded himself in a Manassas hotel room Wednesday evening remains surrounded by authorities Thursday morning, Manassas City police said.
The man, who police named as John Carlson, locked himself into a room at the Home Style Inn at 9913 Cockrell Rd. after arguing with a female companion in the parking lot.
And I thought Tom Soehn was a shitty coach.
Scott Burnside is at it again…
There are rumors the ‘Hawks will accept the decision and then try and trade Niemi so they don’t end up losing a top asset without getting anything back in return. But the marketplace for goaltenders is soft to begin with, and any team dealing with the Blackhawks, let’s say Philadelphia or San Jose or Washington, all Cup contending teams that could use goaltending depth, will know they’ve got the team over a barrel and will be offering little in return.
How…many ways…can we say…we’re going with our two gosh darn KIDS?? I don’t understand this, goaltending wasn’t a weakness in the playoffs or for most of the regular season last year and it probably won’t be one next year. And even if it was, why would Niemi honestly be a better option??
Head. Wall. Repeat.
Because Burnside is an idiot, that’s why.
"It's always good to have vikings."
Proud member of the Oxford dictionary police.
He keeps suckering me in – posting positive things about the Caps, sounding knowledgeable about the team and it’s path, etc. – and then he goes around spreading his usual “the Caps need help in net” mumbo jumbo.
I make it a policy to not listen to Burnside.
On the Forecheck: preaching the Predators' gospel to the unwashed masses.
by Chris Burton on Jul 29, 2010 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions
With that said, would you trade Varlamov for Niemi straight up?
Would you trade Varlamov and picks/prospects for Niemi and a roster player?
Wouldn’t that solve Chicago’s problems while improving the Caps?
Nabokov to the Caps was always crazy, but this isn’t nearly as crazy in my mind.
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Jul 29, 2010 3:59 PM EDT up reply actions
I suppose…not convinced it wouldn’t be a lateral move at best, though. And any roster players they threw in wouldn’t be the ones I wanted.
I just take issue with the meme of “the Caps are a contending team in need of goaltending depth” – he’s not saying a trade in general would benefit both teams, he’s lumping the Caps in with teams that have much more suspect goaltending than the Caps do and saying it’s just an ongoing issue.
I agree about the meme. But it makes sense going the other direction — Chicago needs cheap roster players. Varlamov or Neuvirth could be really appealing to them. Hell, a guy like Fleischmann could be appealing because he fills out the roster without breaking the bank.
If Sharp is off limits, it’s hard to figure out what they’d send the Caps though. I bet Niemi gets nearly 4 Million in arb, and that’s too much. He’s better than Varly, but not 3 million better. He’s not as good as Varly plus another defenseman.
I still covet Dave Bolland.
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Jul 29, 2010 4:15 PM EDT up reply actions
The one thing Niemi has over Varly is health. I don’t see a clear upgrade in talent. Also hard to say given Chicago’s better defense (last season).
Which counts more to me for a goalie than for other positions. Niemi is capable of lasting four rounds and didn’t break under pressure.
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Jul 29, 2010 5:09 PM EDT up reply actions
I’d trade Varly for Niemi, in a vacuum. In the real world, it would depend what Niemi’s salary turns out to be.
I’d trade Varly + Eakin + pick for Niemi and Sharp in a heartbeat; same for Niemi and Seabrook; might do it for Niemi and Bolland, but would have to think about that one a little longer.
Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?
They ain’t moving any D unless they get D (they only have 4 NHL defensemen plus John Scott). And I believe them when they say they ain’t moving Sharp.
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Jul 29, 2010 4:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Good point on the D; and we don’t have one to give back to them, unless you consider Sloan or Erskine something they’d take. And if they would, I’d do that in a heartbeat, but I don’t think they would.
Re. Sharp, I’m trying to convince myself that Bowman is bluffing. Maybe overly hopeful on that.
I take it you’d pull the trigger for Bolland?
Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?
On Sharp…I STILL don’t get how a team in such tight cap constraints and with so many roster spots yet to fill can even think of saying anyone is off-limits. You don’t have to throw him at teams and act desperate, but don’t come out and say a player that a lot of teams are probably interested in is off the table completely – that just seems like pure arrogance to me.
Is he honestly saying that a package of a pick, a top prospect and a cheap but good roster player wouldn’t draw Sharp away? I call bullshit, Mr. Bowman.
…and I’m sure my opinion is not tainted at all by the fact that I want Sharp in a Caps sweater more than anything. Ha.
Well, once they demote Huet or loan him to Europe, they’ll have +/- $5M in cap space. They could let Niemi walk, sign Turco for around $2M, add Toivonen as the backup ($500K), and have about $2.5M left to add the following:
2 x D
2 x F.
That’s assuming they want to carry 22 men on the roster, too. It’s pretty tight, but possible.
Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?
I take it you’d pull the trigger for Bolland?
What’s the offer? That’s the problem – I definitely think Bolland would help the Caps, but the Caps can’t trade Varly away without getting a goalie in return and the Caps certainly have to give something else up to trade Varly for Niemi and Bolland
Obviously I’d do Varly and Flash for Bolland and Niemi, but I doubt Chicago would. Then again, who knows how bad their cap situation is going to be? Philly just gave Simon Gagne away, and he’s better than Dave Bolland.
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Jul 29, 2010 5:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Say, Varly (or Neuvirth) + MP + a first for Niemi and Bolland?
Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?
Too much with the first. I’d do it with a second though. (and yes I know about next year’s second)
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Jul 29, 2010 5:37 PM EDT up reply actions
With that said, would you trade Varlamov for Niemi straight up?
I’ll give you two reasons why I wouldn’t make that deal (or rather two historical examples).
Example #1
Back in 1992, the Blackhawks had two good young goalies on the team. Both were in their early 20s. One had been in the league for three years, the other, a European, two. The more experienced goalie had established himself as the #1 goalie in Chicago so the Blackhawks decided to trade the less experienced goalie. The goalie who stayed in Chicago was Eddie Belfour, so no one can gripe about choosing him. However, the goalie Chicago moved was Dominic Hasek who only went on to win two Harts and six Vezinas.
Example #2
Again, two goalies. Different eras, different teams although both are playing in the NHL now.
GOALIE A
AHL Career 32 games 14-13-5, 4.05 GAA
NHL Career-First two years 51 games 29-12-8 2.46 GAA, .913 SAV%
GOALIE B
AHL Career 27 games, 2.40 GAA
NHL Career-First 32 games 19-4-0 2.52 GAA, .911 SAV %
So here’s the question. Which one is Marty Brodeur and which one is Varly? The games played probably give it away but the stats are strikingly similar. (Varly is goalie B, btw)
Now, in now way am I saying Varly is going to become the next Hasek or Brodeur. Not in a long shot. But what I am saying is that young goalies, good young goalies, need time to develop and Varly is just at the beginning of his maturation as a NHL goalie. No way in the world am I trading that potential for a 26-year old Finnish goalie who may never be any better than he is right now, Cup or no Cup.
I don’t think Niemi is any better than the baby goalies.
Watching the O’s try to use strategy is like watching Mike Green trying to figure out the difference between "your" and "you’re"--Terpgrrl
Donation info for SAVES FOR KIDS 2010!! Make a difference.
Varly can’t stay healthy, and he’s got some flaws in his game. I’d take Niemi over him at this point.
Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?
Not me. I think Niemi caught lightning in a bottle behind a very good Blackhawks team. This season aside, there’s nothing in his career to indicate he’s anything more than an average goalie whether in the NHL, AHL or Finland. And frankly, his numbers in the playoffs (.910SV%, 2’63 GAA) weren’t that great. If he gets too high an award, Chicago would be wise to walk away.
I think they basically have to walk away, if they’re really committed to keeping Sharp.
Anything over $2M, and he’s going to get well in excess of that, and the ‘Hawks can’t fill out the rest of the roster, realistically.
Niemi was playing behind a very good defense, for sure, but he’s shown more than Varly has, at this point.
Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?
If the roster player was Patrick Sharp, eff yeah!
But seriously? No, it’s not crazy, but it certialy isn’t that sane.
Everyone just keeps wanting the caps to get goalies(even if they are roughly the same player) and defenseman(who really aren’t that much better then what we got) beacuse they still have no fucking clue how the caps lost to Montreal.
This just in
Via twitter, @dcsportsbog:
@dcsportsbog: Bombshell TWP memo: @tarikelbashir leaving Caps beat to cover Georgetown, NASCAR, MMA, boxing
"I am ready for his provocations"
by PaintDrinkingPete on Jul 29, 2010 6:44 PM EDT reply actions
Katie Carrera will cover the Caps, according to Dan Steinberg (via Twitter)
If you've read this far...seek help.
I wonder is this a demotion, promotion, or sidewise move for Tarik? I’m going to miss him.
"I’m very happy to hear the news," Ovechkin said when he heard about Backstrom's longterm contract--"because he’s one of the top centers in the world, one of my best friends and we want to play together for a long time. He’s a guy who wants to stay in one place and be comfortable and win, just like me. We talk all the time about playing together, and we talked after the playoffs about how we can win in Washington."
by capsyoungguns on Jul 29, 2010 7:37 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m going to miss him too.
My guess is it might have to do with the NHL season travel schedule not fitting in with a young family.
That’s the reason. From TEB, via Twitter…
It was time to try something different. More important, it was time to have time to be a full-time dad.
If you've read this far...seek help.
the post doesn’t like to keep guys on the intense beats (like baseball and hockey) too long because the load is so intense, it tends to burn them out. That’s why the moved Svrluga to the Redskins beat despite his great Nationals coverage
Watching the O’s try to use strategy is like watching Mike Green trying to figure out the difference between "your" and "you’re"--Terpgrrl
Donation info for SAVES FOR KIDS 2010!! Make a difference.
Will miss Tarik. Met him several times at VC while buying coffee at the Dunkin’ Donuts. He was really nice talking to us about the game. He really made the Capitals Insider blog into a must read for me.
Nascar, MMA and boxing over hockey? Man, that’s insulting to all hockey fans. I know he’s got a family to feed, but if I had a choice I’d quit the profession before I’d spend my days covering any of those three. Seriously, coiuld you find three more lower common denominator fans than that group. I’m utterly amazed he agreed to that reassignment.
Well you left out Georgetown basketball, which is kind of a BIG DEAL around here.
Aim for the head baby Jesus
The Georgetown beat is a promotion.
The rest is WaPo’s version of the pu-pu platter to keep him writing the other ~35% of his time. Could be worse; they could have made him writer #37 on the Redskins filler detail.
I’m not a Caps fan in the least and I’m still aggravated for you guys/the sport, though. Tarik’s a solid hockey writer, and who knows what you’re going to get next. We Caniacs had to deal with an old NC State hoops guy learning the sport in ‘08-’09 when Luke DeCock got promoted to columnist. That wasn’t fun.
That 17-year-old Hokie sitting in the Greensboro Coliseum rafters in 1997 didn't see any of this coming.
that’s my fear, we’ll get some idiot who doesn’t even like hockey.
Watching the O’s try to use strategy is like watching Mike Green trying to figure out the difference between "your" and "you’re"--Terpgrrl
Donation info for SAVES FOR KIDS 2010!! Make a difference.
That last link in your sig? The AP writer from that handles Caps content for CSN online and (sometimes) on TV. At least in that regard we’re lucky two have had two decent guys for most of the beat.
And I thought Tom Soehn was a shitty coach.
by Bald Pollack on Jul 29, 2010 9:23 PM EDT up reply actions
That's not AP copy, despite what the site says.
That article is from back when Corey was the Times’s Caps beat guy. I guess they’re just default-labeling all their sports copy as AP now, even the archives.
That 17-year-old Hokie sitting in the Greensboro Coliseum rafters in 1997 didn't see any of this coming.
Whatevs, Corey’s current presence on the channel that airs the games is welcome, if not sorely needed.
And I thought Tom Soehn was a shitty coach.
by Bald Pollack on Jul 30, 2010 7:44 AM EDT up reply actions
man, that sucks. it’s been nice having the same guy cover the team for so long now.
Watching the O’s try to use strategy is like watching Mike Green trying to figure out the difference between "your" and "you’re"--Terpgrrl
Donation info for SAVES FOR KIDS 2010!! Make a difference.
no, I can’t wait.
Watching the O’s try to use strategy is like watching Mike Green trying to figure out the difference between "your" and "you’re"--Terpgrrl
Donation info for SAVES FOR KIDS 2010!! Make a difference.
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Southeast Standings
| GP | W | L | OTL | PT | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
Washington
|
82 | 54 | 15 | 13 | 121 |
|
Atlanta
|
82 | 35 | 34 | 13 | 83 |
|
Carolina
|
82 | 35 | 37 | 10 | 80 |
|
Tampa Bay
|
82 | 34 | 36 | 12 | 80 |
|
Florida
|
82 | 32 | 37 | 13 | 77 |
(updated 4.12.2010 at 9:21 AM EDT)
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