Thrashers walk away from MacArthur

Agree with the Thrash brass here--an overpay, and new faces render the player...moot?

Question: What's the threshold for George to walk away from Flash?

almost 2 years ago bigonetimer 23 comments 0 recs |

Comments

Over $4m and he starts thinking about it. Anything lower, they match, IMO.

As I wrote in another thread, they’re not cap-tight right now, and it’ll be a one-year deal that they can work with. GMGM doesn’t let assets go for nothing.

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by J.P. on Jul 22, 2010 2:09 PM EDT reply actions

GMGM doesn’t let assets go for nothing.

I’m beginning to think there is no threshold, for this very reason.

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by bigonetimer on Jul 22, 2010 2:14 PM EDT up reply actions

I’ll put it this way – I can’t envision a scenario in which Fleischmann’s side so much as asks for a number higher than what GMGM will match, much less be awarded something above that number. Either would shock me.

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by J.P. on Jul 22, 2010 2:20 PM EDT up reply actions

I think anything below 3M would be a huge win for the Caps, and that could still quadruple his salary. Fair, imo, but I fear it’s going to be well above 3M and I gonna resent….

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by bigonetimer on Jul 22, 2010 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions

Unless they were serious about wanting Plekanec money I agree. If they actually think he deserves Plekanec money both Flash and the Agent should be shot.

Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman

by Rob Parker on Jul 22, 2010 6:04 PM EDT up reply actions

Did they mean Plekanec 2010 money or Plekanec 2009 money (~$2.75m)?

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by J.P. on Jul 23, 2010 6:39 AM EDT up reply actions

Probably 2009, I hope. I had been thinking 2010 but that’s not an admissible contract so they can’t really argue for that. Even 2009 Plekanec isn’t a good comparable because he’s actually a C and he’s pretty reliable defensively. But looking at the arbitration decisions I think he’ll clear 2009-Plekanec pretty easily.

Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman

by Rob Parker on Jul 23, 2010 8:58 AM EDT up reply actions

Here’s my quick logic, to try to clarify.

Fehr made 2.2 with almost identical stats to Flash and less TOI both at ES and special teams. That means 2.2 at least is on the table for Flash, probably 2.5. But everything we’ve heard says the Caps and Flash aren’t close. So what is “not close” to 2.5? If Flash wanted 2.75 I don’t think we’d be hearing the sides aren’t close, and I’d assume that .25 could be negotiated around and Flash would get ~2.65. So that leads me to believe Flash wants 3+. 3+ is an absolute waste on a guy like Flash for a team like the Caps, but it’s basically bound to happen, so get mentally prepared now.

Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman

by Rob Parker on Jul 23, 2010 10:53 AM EDT up reply actions

Oh, I’m prepared.

My bet is the Caps offer less than Fehr, though. Fehr was actually playable (and good) in the playoffs and Flash, yet again, was not. Fehr also did more with less, as you note. So to give Flash more when he doesn’t deserve it (I know, they did with ice time so why not dollars) upsets the salary structure of the team.

Personally, I think it’s important (symbolically as much as anything) for the team to offer less than the $2.067 that Laich makes. Maybe they’d have gone to $2.2m on Flash, but to have him make more than Laich and Fehr would send an awful, awful message.

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by J.P. on Jul 23, 2010 11:06 AM EDT up reply actions

I don’t see how on earth they can justify offering Flash less than Fehr. I mean, I see the justification, as do you and many of us. I’m saying how do they justify it to Flash’s agent? You’re never going to get him to sign that. And, as you note, they’ve already set an awful, awful precedent with Flash so why stop now? I agree (and even fucking BB agreed) that Flash was unplayable in the playoffs, but I don’t think that’s going to carry much weight with the agent, and only marginal weight in the arbitration. Flash will focus on his lost off-seasons (then again, Fehr had no shoulders last off-season) and say that he’s poised for a huge season.

Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman

by Rob Parker on Jul 23, 2010 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions

I think it’ll carry some weight in arbitration, but I think that’s the reason they were “not close” or whatever – perhaps the line in the sand has been drawn.

Flash made $725k last year. Caps could triple that and he’s not at Fehr. Does Flash deserve to have his salary more than tripled? After that second half and those playoffs? How does he justify that to the team?

If the team was willing to go to $2.5m on one year, I think it’d have been done, because both sides could probably meet in the middle at $2.75m if Flash was asking $3m (who’s gonna drag this to arb over $250k?). My guess is the team isn’t willing to go to $2.5m and/or the agent is at $3.25m or more. And the ironic reality is that when the decision is handed out, the Caps are going to end up going way higher than they were willing to go in negotiation.

Holding the line here also sets a good precedent with Laich et. al. up in the very near future – if you overpay Flash now, you’re also going to overpay Laich and everyone as they come up.

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by J.P. on Jul 23, 2010 12:06 PM EDT up reply actions

It will be interesting, and I wish the league would publish the arbitration arguments and results. You’re right that the split nature of Flash’s season will be an interesting issue for the arbitrator to address, but I think Flash gets the heavy benefit of the doubt. (And I don’t think that reality is ironic for Flash or his agent, they damn well know the Caps will pay more than they are willing to negotiate for.)

Considering “the player’s importance to the team’s success” is a factor, you could be right that the game 7 benching will matter. I’m just so pessimistic about the whole thing at this point. I’d love to see the team draw a line in the sand, but considering how they’ve treated him for the last two seasons I just don’t see it. And wouldn’t drawing a line in the sand mean walking from an arbitration award, something we both don’t see happening? I guess you could draw the line and not walk by saying “we are holding our nose and accepting the award to avoid losing him for nothing.” But then you’d have to try to move him, I would think, otherwise you are implicitly accepting his value as a 3+ player and indicating that you’ll try to retain him next off-season.

Ultimately I’d rather see Backstrom serve as the precedent for Laich et. al., than Flash. Backstrom negotiated for a fair value, but far below market value. I’d love to see Laich and Green do that as well.

Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman

by Rob Parker on Jul 23, 2010 12:18 PM EDT up reply actions

Considering "the player’s importance to the team’s success" is a factor…

Caps were 3-3 in the playoffs with Flash, 0-1 without him, ergo he was critically important to the team’s success.

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by J.P. on Jul 23, 2010 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions

Plus he scored a ton without Ovechkin! If the Caps traded AO and promoted Flash they would save cap space and not lose production, even with Flash’s new 5.5 mill per year extension!

Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman

by Rob Parker on Jul 23, 2010 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions

I think the only reason for either of them to get a contract greater than Laich’s is because that contract is two years old and the cap has gone up since then. I’m not saying it’s fair, just that it’s life. All else being equal, if Laich was getting that contract today instead of two years ago, what would it be? (And I’m asking without going back to look at his stats from then. If I looked at current stats, I’d say $3 million easily.)

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by gfcaps fan on Jul 23, 2010 5:09 PM EDT up reply actions

The thing about Laich’s deal is that it’s old and the cap was way lower so you have to account for inflation. When Laich signs a new deal he will make more than Flash. Yes, this only makes it slightly less palatable that of Laich, Flash and Fehr, the former will make the least money this season.

Choking since 1985.

by macvechkin on Jul 24, 2010 10:52 PM EDT up reply actions

MacArthur shall return. ;-)

Anything over $3.5M for Flash, you have to let him go…

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--- D'ohboy

by MikeL-Pivonka on Jul 22, 2010 2:20 PM EDT reply actions

Disagree.

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by J.P. on Jul 22, 2010 2:39 PM EDT up reply actions

Signing him to a serious overpay is only going to hinder getting something for him in return. From my mostly uneducated reckonin’, Flash Camp wants around $2.75 and the Caps are proabably thinking $2M. To me this would qualify as ‘far apart’, especially if you are talking multi-year.

Choking since 1985.

by macvechkin on Jul 24, 2010 10:57 PM EDT up reply actions

2.4 mil for Clarke MacArthur? THE Clarke MacArthur? He of the 16g 19a -16? What does that mean for Flash? I see an ugly arbitration hearing coming our way.

by DonCaps819 on Jul 22, 2010 7:32 PM EDT reply actions

Using this nice little site, it appears MacArthur was paid ~525K in 2008-9, went to arb with BUF and was awarded 1.4M for 2009-10. (BUF dished him at the deadline to ATL) How he got an award that contains a million dollar raise is a tribute to his agent, but I’m guessing that he casts around through the summer and comes in a lot closer to what he made last year.

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by bigonetimer on Jul 23, 2010 2:06 PM EDT up reply actions

It might be a tribute to his agent… or it might be that the team rolled over and didn’t bother presenting a side, knowing they’d walk away from any award and thus the arbitrator just went with the number the player requested. I think you’re spot on that his “real” value is far south of $2.4m.

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by J.P. on Jul 23, 2010 2:28 PM EDT up reply actions

BUF probably faced with the same choice last summer when he was significantly cheaper. Obviously they held on to him, but clearly the Sabres had no compunction letting him go to the Thrash for a 3rd and a 4th rounder…better than for nothing.

More norrissey, less morrissey

by bigonetimer on Jul 23, 2010 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions