Ice Conditions

Now that Uncle Ted has ownership of the Verizon Center, do the ice conditions improve at all? It's been pretty well documented at this point that the Caps home ice is often atrocious, but there wasn't much Ted could do since he didn't own the building, staff, etc. I seem to recall him addressing the ice situation at some point, ~~but I couldn't find anything to support that statement~~ and so I stopped being lazy and actually used a good Google search. Assuming he did, then I certainly hope that that the Caps finally get a first-rate sheet of ice so that our first-rate club can finally put on the dazzling display of skills we know they can.

almost 2 years ago IrishCreme 14 comments 0 recs |

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I hope he can get that fixed now – he has the power to be able to do something about it, it’s simple getting done whatever needs to be. Does anyone here know what causes those problems? I’m not knowledgable about the more technical stuff like that.

by timmyv38 on Jul 22, 2010 10:05 AM EDT reply actions

Its a number of problems, none of which are easy to fix.

First, the Verizon Center was built with private money. Borrowed private money. Those loans need to be repaid, and to do so, you need to fill seats. Not just for hockey and basketball (keep in mind, we host both the Wiz and G-town B-ball), but also concerts and other events. A building strictly used for hockey, or for just hockey and concerts would generally have better ice, but to get the loans paid off, you need lots of tenants. When Ted purchased the remaining stake in the Phone Booth and the Wizards, he assumed about $250M in debt, much of which is tied to the construction of the Verizon Center. All those tenants mean the building is constantly heating up and cooling down, which doesn’t make for great ice.

The second factor is geography. DC tends be rather warm in the Spring and Fall. Once the doors open for a game, the building begins to warm up inside, a combination of having 18,000 people inside, and the fact that its generally warmer than the ideal temperature for ice around here, and opening a door 18,000 times lets in plenty of warm air. Obviously heat isn’t ideal for making good ice. Ideally, the ice should be about 25 degrees for hockey. Its awfully difficult to keep the ice that cool, when its probably 65 degrees, if not warmer, close to ice level in the arena.

Putting revolving doors or double doors at the arena entrances might help mitigate the problem somewhat by keeping some of the warm air out of the building, but there’s only so much you can do when you have 18,000 people walking into a building in about an hour. Beyond that, it would depend on what the bottleneck is. Perhaps the climate here dictates that there needs to be more piping in the cement slab below the ice (so you can push more refrigerant through it, and thus keep the temperature lower). Its also possible that the piping is adequate, but the compressors aren’t sufficiently powerful to get the refrigerant cold enough to keep the ice cold. Either issue would be very expensive to remedy, and would likely require closing the VC for probably a month or more.

I am a hockey fan first, and a Caps fan second.

by iwearstripes on Jul 22, 2010 12:17 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs

Isn’t the humidity is a bigger factor then the actual temperature?

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by RedBirdie on Jul 22, 2010 1:06 PM EDT up reply actions

The two go hand in hand really. Warm air holds more moisture than cold air, so when the warm air cools, the result is condensation. Since the warm air cools the most directly above the ice, the condensation ends up on the rink, coating the ice in essentially tiny droplets of warmer water. That makes the ice softer, which makes it slower and sloppier.

Now, the fact that DC is built on a swamp, where the humidity level is always pretty high only exacerbates the problem. The solution is to either let less of the outside air into the building, or treat the air in the building once it gets in.

Every NHL facility has massive dehumidifiers to remove moisture from the air. I actually hadn’t considered that the dehumidifiers might not be powerful enough to remove enough moisture from the air to maintain good quality ice. If that’s the case, a moderate improvement in the dehumidification equipment could have a significant impact on the ice quality.

I am a hockey fan first, and a Caps fan second.

by iwearstripes on Jul 22, 2010 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions

You’re right that they go hand in hand but of the two the humidity is definitely the bigger problem. I’ve mentioned it a few times, but the ice in Vegas was pretty good despite temperatures that we never get close to in DC. The humidity makes it much more difficult to cool the inside, and has the tendency to soften the ice even when cool.

Regarding the pipes and your prior comment, I’m not sure which system they have but I’d bet it hasn’t been upgraded more than once, if that, since the building opened. Not only could they use more pipes, but the systems are much more advanced now, both in terms of piping and whatever coolant they use. Also, there is stuff you can add to the ice to make it harder, but I don’t think the Caps use it.

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by Rob Parker on Jul 22, 2010 8:24 PM EDT up reply actions

Over the last few years there have been some huge advances in dehumidification equipment for small rinks. I’m not sure the technology translates (or really, how it even works) but there may be something out there that could be a reasonably cost effective upgrade.

Of course, it depends on what the problem is. Without knowing the relative humidity numbers in VC, its difficult to say. If the cooling equipment was poorly installed, even if its 5 degrees inside, the ice will still suck. Alternatively if the relative humidity is 40%, you can run the compressors at their limit all day, and you’ll still have bad ice.

In any case, it shouldn’t take a rocket scientist to figure it out.

I am a hockey fan first, and a Caps fan second.

by iwearstripes on Jul 23, 2010 2:32 AM EDT up reply actions

I do remember sitting through an open forum with him prior to a caps game last year and the ice quality question was brought up. He stated that dehumidifiers would be needed to help improve the quality in the building but that since he didn’t own the building he can’t control what goes into it just merely suggest that they add them. So I hope that while he’s adding improved Iphone service he’s planning on adding dehumidifiers too

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by kurlNdrag on Jul 22, 2010 11:50 AM EDT reply actions

Yeah, my biggest hope would be for him to pump some of that newfound revenue from all the sell-outs and OV jerseys towards making sure the team can perform at its highest level at all times now that he owns the building as well as the team. I imagine it won’t be a cheap fix, but if it means an even bigger home-ice advantage, then it’d be worth every single penny in the long run.

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by IrishCreme on Jul 23, 2010 9:58 AM EDT up reply actions

The biggest benefit Ted can do for the ice is to redo the schedule for days where hockey and basketball collide. How many times did Georgetown have an afternoon game followed by the Caps at night. The ice really needs about 6-8 hours to harden after being covered up for several hours (such as for basketball). If the Caps game were to be played Sat. afternoon and Georgetown moved to Sat, night, the ice quality would be better.

This may not happen due to television considerations, but it is something to think about.

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by MikeL-Pivonka on Jul 22, 2010 2:24 PM EDT reply actions

This would definitely help but I don’t think even 24 hours is enough in this climate. Without a change in the equipment, I don’t see how the ice is going to be good in the playoffs ever.

Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman

by Rob Parker on Jul 22, 2010 8:26 PM EDT up reply actions

We all know that Ted is not going to stop booking events at VC, however, the question is are the new owners willing to put the money into getting the dehumidifiers and turning up the AC. I have been colder at some Mystics games this summer than at Caps games. At this point, I don’t see them putting out the money, but I really wish they would. Ted is a Georgetown alum so while there may be less basketball-hockey double headers, it probably won’t be completely eliminated. While they are making some improvements to VC, at the end of the day, I care more about the Caps players not risking injuries due to the ice conditions than I do about ketchup and mustard dispensers or the locks on the rest room stalls.

by NovaCath on Jul 23, 2010 8:34 AM EDT reply actions

I have been colder at some Mystics games this summer than at Caps games.

Possibly due to 18,000 people in the building compared to 895?

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by macvechkin on Jul 24, 2010 11:00 PM EDT up reply actions

Hmm, I wonder if the ice conditions for the players have become demonstrably worse once the building was filled?

"I’m very happy to hear the news," Ovechkin said when he heard about Backstrom's longterm contract--"because he’s one of the top centers in the world, one of my best friends and we want to play together for a long time. He’s a guy who wants to stay in one place and be comfortable and win, just like me. We talk all the time about playing together, and we talked after the playoffs about how we can win in Washington."

by capsyoungguns on Jul 25, 2010 9:53 AM EDT up reply actions

I don’t remember anything near to exactly what he said, but just prior to the scrimmage last Saturday Ted came out and talked for a few minutes, and one of the things he promised was better ice, flat out. No details given, but still, he just brought it up again last weekend unprovoked, so that’s got to be a good sign.

by vzotsky on Jul 23, 2010 10:56 PM EDT reply actions