Wednesday Caps Clips: Way to Go, Ms. Twiddle
by J.P. on Jun 2, 2010 6:37 AM EDT
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Your savory breakfast links:
- The Caps retained the rights to three draft picks and let another four go yesterday. No surprises, but it's probably not too often that you see a team take a pass on trying develop one of their own draft picks
with great playoff beard potentialwho led the WHL in goals the season after being picked. [Capitals] - A well-deserved honor is going to be bestowed upon a Caps legend when long-time (and original) radio play-by-play voice Ron Weber is presented with the Foster Hewitt Memorial Award for outstanding contributions as a hockey broadcaster as part of hockey's Hall of Fame induction ceremonies this coming fall. [Capitals, Vogs, D.C. Sports Bog, CI, OFB, Frankovic, DCEx]
- Mathieu Perreault gets some press en français. [RDS via Google Translate]
- And Chris Bourque also gets the hometown treatment. [Salem News]
- Reviewing the Caps' 2005 draft, five years out. Spoiler alert: it sucked. [Hockey's Future]
- The Leftovers, by the tens. [Peerless]
- A look back at John Carlson's 2009-10. [Live In Red]
- A hamburger dedicated to Mike Green? Your punchlines in the comments. [WaPo]
- Finally, you are all cordially invited to join fans and writers of SBN's D.C.-based blogs (and perhaps a celeb or two) for fun and free stuff next Monday night at Iron Horse Tap Room (a personal fave). See you there. [SB Nation]
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Still shaking my head about Sasha Pokulok.
That was a really deep draft too. The very last pick (230th overall) was Patric Hornqvist. And we swung and missed twice in the first round with SP and Joe Finley.
I never travel far....without a little Big Star...
Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Jun 2, 2010 6:57 AM EDT reply actions
Here‘s that draft. Already 37 guys with an NHL season’s worth of games played… and 0 games played from Caps draftees (for the Caps, that is – Tim Kennedy had a nice rookie season for Buffalo in 2009-10, but he was traded at the draft for the Sabres’ 6th rounder in 2006, which became none other than Mathieu Perreault). Couple that with the goat-rodeo that determined the draft order and, um, yeah… not good times.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
by J.P. on Jun 2, 2010 7:26 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Knowing our luck, Broda will go be a 50 goal scorer somewhere.
I never travel far....without a little Big Star...
Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Jun 2, 2010 7:31 AM EDT up reply actions
I’m still a bit foggy on the whole Broda saga. Why wouldn’t / couldn’t we sign him? Can’t imagine it was much about money.
Grain of salt on those goal totals though….playing almost a full season of junior as a 20 year old.
Choking since 1985.
this isn’t insider knowledge, but its been speculated among rink readers that concerns about his “in quicksand” style of skating led to concerns that he’d never be NHL material.
Because now I can justify browsing and commenting during the work day with the argument that I am promoting my business.
by Sombrero Guy on Jun 2, 2010 11:22 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah pretty much, though I’d call him a Dubuc 2.0 rather than a Giroux 2.0. If he could even skate as well as Giroux he’d probably have been signed.
I waited all year for this?
From what I saw at camp Dubuc really impressed. Probably the competition level though. I’d give him a chance on my AHL team, but sadly I don’t run an AHL team.
He can get a chance on an AHL team, but his skating is brutal. He no doubt has a great touch around the net and knows how to finish, but he’s not going to get those chances against D that can skate. Which camp did you watch? Actual training camp with NHL players or one of the prospect camps?
I waited all year for this?
Worth noting, though, that his big year in the W was his 18/19-year-old year immediately after the Caps drafted him.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
Damn Marian Hanzal was drafted 3 picks after Pokulok—that possibly could have solved some 2C issues.
Also TJ Oshie…damn …sighs woulda coulda shoulda….
A clear conscience is usually the sign of a bad memory
Marc-Edouard Vlasic. /le sigh
I never travel far....without a little Big Star...
Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Jun 2, 2010 7:35 AM EDT up reply actions
Couple that with the goat-rodeo
You know, you don’t hear the term “goat-rodeo” every day… and for that, you get a Rec. :)
Sounds like something they’d do at West Point before the Army-Navy game…. Go Navy!
Washington Capitals 2009-10 = Quebec Nordiques 1994-95
--- D'ohboy
by MikeL-Pivonka on Jun 2, 2010 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Sasha Pokulok, the “J.F. Fortin” of the 2005 draft.
And looking at that Hockey’s Future page, boy, the Caps really do feast or famine with defensemen… On the one hand, there are Mike Green, Jeff Schultz, John Carlson, Karl Alzner, all of whom should be top four defensemen for a while.
On the other hand, there are Pokulok, Finley (why is he still designated an “NHL prospect?”), Hedman (part of the brilliant overseas scouting in 2004 that also netted Mikhail Yunkov, Pasi Salonen and Peter Guggisberg), Dovgan (another “clever” pick), Steve Eminger, Nathan Paestch, Jakub Cutta, etc. etc….
That 2005 draft was an odd one… more players in the seventh round with >100 games played than there are in the 5th and 6th rounds combined.
The Caps’ experience in 2005 can be summed up by a pair of consecutive picks in the fourth round (both defensemen)…
108 Niklas Hjalmarsson (taken by Chicago)
109 Andrew Thomas (taken by the Caps)
One goes to the Stanley Cup finals, the other spends the year in Trenton.
If you've read this far...seek help.
Have they significantly changed scouting since then? It seems like they’re not swinging and missing on as many picks as before?
I never travel far....without a little Big Star...
Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Jun 2, 2010 8:01 AM EDT up reply actions
For what it’s worth, they’ve had some turnover both in NA and European scouting (at least, if you compare the staff from ’06 to this past year), and have added a little to the latter.
They're coming.
The team bottoming out and getting lots of higher picks has helped too, as have teams making dumb trades (like the Eminger deal)
I never travel far....without a little Big Star...
Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Jun 2, 2010 8:48 AM EDT up reply actions
It can’t be that much better since they didn’t sign Mestery, a second rounder just two years ago.
Also, while drafting Green and Carlson garners them a lot of praise, there still seems to me a question of improper rating (similar to the Wings with Zetterburg). If the Caps thought they were as good as it seems they are, would they have drafted Schultz/AGus first?
They drafted Schultz first because Dallas was rumored about taking him with the 28th pick. The Capitals knew that Green would still be available at 29, but they didn’t know if Schultz would be. They wanted both, so they got both by selecting Schultz with the 27th pick. Same situation with Gus—they thought another team was going to pick him and they wanted him, so they actually traded up a few spots. It’s not just a matter of talent rankings; it’s also about a team’s draft position, the players they want to select, and where they can select them in relation to other teams’ draft boards. That said, both Carlson and Gus went around when most media scouting reports ranked them. Also, people tend to forget this, but Green was a late riser in 2004—up until the last week or so before the draft, he was seen as a second rounder.
Once you get beyond the top 5, top 10 picks, you really don’t know how draft picks are going to turn out. The only picks a team can completely blow are guaranteed talent. That’s why not signing Mestery isn’t a big deal or a sign their drafting hasn’t gotten better—the same draft found Braden Holtby in the 4th round (93rd overall) and Stefan Della Rovere in the 7th (204th overall), not to mention Dimitri Kugryshev in the 2nd round (58th overall).
That’s why not signing Mestery isn’t a big deal or a sign their drafting hasn’t gotten better—the same draft found Braden Holtby in the 4th round (93rd overall) and Stefan Della Rovere in the 7th (204th overall), not to mention Dimitri Kugryshev in the 2nd round (58th overall).
None of whom have yet come close to skating in an NHL game (ok, I believe Holtby dressed as a backup). One could argue (and I’d be one of them) that each member of this group could have a productive NHL career, but given the Caps’ performance with draft picks after the first round, I’ll believe it when I see it.
If you've read this far...seek help.
I think Kuger is the least likely of the bunch, but I think all three will see time with the Caps in the next year or two (Holtby because of injury, most likely – I’d love it if he beat them out for a job, though).
by DrinkingPartner on Jun 2, 2010 10:59 AM EDT up reply actions
Some folks see a draft pick and start wondering where in the dressing room at Verizon Center they’ll sit. Others think, what can go wrong. Me? I’ve seen a lot of draft picks past the first round on this team over the past decade after the first round never amount to much (anything) in the NHL. I’ll believe it when I see it.
If you've read this far...seek help.
I dunno…I can understand the frustration, but I’d rather track and follow prospects and see how they develop, rather than passing judgement on them in the middle.
I also have problems not acknowledging the scouting department overall that took place in the middle of the past decade and how that might affect drafting, as well as the general fact that with a few exceptions, most prospects drafted in later rounds tend to have a longer developmental curve. It’s simplistic analysis, otherwise, and that’s surprising coming from you.
I so badly wanted the Caps to take Grachev with the 2nd rounder they used on Mestery. Mestery went where he was expected to go, but Grachev slid and was committed to coming over to North America.
by CapsFanSince1979 on Jun 2, 2010 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions
If we took Grachev there, we might not have taken Mackan. I’m personally higher on Mackan, but time will tell.
by DrinkingPartner on Jun 2, 2010 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m in the opposite camp – Grachev looked really good with Brampton this season in the clips I saw.
Only YOU can prevent idiots from commenting!
by Knee high to a duck on Jun 2, 2010 5:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Oof! Unless it’s changed since I left (admittedly a long time ago), there aren’t many places worse to spend a year than in Trenton. (I assume we’re talking ECHL Devils, not something in Ontario. And technically, I didn’t live in Trenton.)
"It's always good to have vikings."
I don’t find the Caps’ amateur scouting especially impressive. I’d posted this elsewhere, but it might bear repeating…
They did the whole no brainer thing in picking Ovechkin, and a turnip (ok, a smart turnip) could see that Backstrom would be a better fit than Kessel. But after that? What “steals” have the Caps had even in the first round?
In the last ten years…
2002: Alexander Semin (13th overall) has 148 goals. Only Rick Nash has more from that class. But did Boyd Gordon merit a 17th overall pick? (note: in fairness, that was not a very good draft overall)
2004: Getting Mike Green and Jeff Schultz where the Caps did (Green playing for a ghastly team in juniors and Schultz at the end of the first round) and have them turn out as well as they have might not be a “steal,” but the benefits would seem to be greater than the slots in which they were selected.
2006: Semyon Varlamov…only Steve Mason has played in more NHL games among goalies in that class, and Varlamov has played in more playoff games than the rest of his goalie class combined.
2008: John Carlson was the 12th defenseman selected, but among the 11 drafted ahead of him, the only ones clearly better at this stage of their development might be Doughty, Bogosian, and Myers
On the other hand…
1999: Kris Beech (7th overall) is 39th in that draft class in NHL games played.
2000: Brian Sutherby (26th overall) is with his third team in three seasons.
2003: I think Eric Fehr can be a 30-goal scorer in the NHL, but he’s taken a long time to get even to the point where that’s a possibility. He’s 30th in goals scored in that class; three of the players ahead of him are defensemen (Phaneuf, Weber, Burns)
2005: Pokulok, Finley, ’nuf said.
2008: Anton Gustafsson… anyone have him high on the list of potential number two centers?
If you've read this far...seek help.
Some of those are just plain sad, some are unfortunate, in terms of injury, although one never knows how much of a difference that made. Fehr seems to fall clearly into the good pick, unfortunate with injury pool. If he hadn’t missed at least a season’s worth of time with the bad back, based on what we’ve seen he’d probably be way higher up that list. Pokulok had a major concussion at Cornell(?), didn’t he? And was never the same after that? Is it too early to know if Gustafsson’s injuries have permanently derailed his career, but was he already hurt when drafted?
On the other hand, I’d prefer to believe 2005 never happened.
"It's always good to have vikings."
If you ae going to depend on the draft as the core principle of your team-building method, you can’t have years like that, or at least not more than, say, one in every ten. 2005 really was a black hole of a year.
If you've read this far...seek help.
Considering that the Capitals have released prospects before their rights expire (Casavant, Bruneteau) and giving away guys (Seabrook, Lepisto) because they don’t have the room, I’m not sure they’re as worried.
2005 was bad, but it seemed to be a draft destined to be bad. In the end, the Capitals wound up with two 1sts and four other picks with triple digits, and while one of the firsts was a bad reach, both of those prospects were completely undone by injuries. Pokulok was on a good developmental curve when he suffered two back-to-back concussions in his first pro season in Hershey, and he’s never been the same player since. Finley had his own concussion in college, and then started his professional career by shattering his hand.
If you’re going to depend on team-building through the system, you cannot completely rely on the top rounds of the draft to feed you players, because crap like that will happen. The Capitals have managed to recover from bad drafts like 2005 and 2007 by finding good to great prospects in the later rounds in 2006 and 2008, as well as the occasional free agent like Jay Beagle.
I’m not sure I’d agree with assessing any prospect in 2006 or 2008 as “great.” Mathieu Perreault could be a good one. I think it will be hard to send him down if his progress from 2009 to 2010 is as significant as 2008 to 2009. As for the others, Della Rovere could be a player that fills a specific niche in the NHL (read, “pest”). I’m not convinced any other prospect can be considered a better than even shot at being an every night player.
If you've read this far...seek help.
Holtby. His performance and stats are better than Neuvirth’s and Varlamov’s at the same level, and he’s doing it at a younger age.
The guy is far, far ahead of his expected developmental curve.
I think you are way jumping the gun on Holtby being a great prospect. He definitely has upside and I’m encouraged, but I reserve the ‘great’ prospect label for guys that are in the 7.0B or higher ranking (according to Hockey’s Future, which I know is not the be-all, end-all, but it’s pretty good.
He also hasn’t exactly challenged Neuvy for game time in this year’s AHL playoffs.
Choking since 1985.
First, pegging goalies is near impossible, so I’m not going too much by what HF says. Second, Holtby has undeniably exceeded expectations and shown a lot of promise in HER. Third, just because he’s not challenging Neuvy isn’t exactly a huge condemnation. If you hadn’t noticed, Neuvy has put together a pretty sharp playoff resume.
I waited all year for this?
Neuvy is doing well, but Holtby also hasn’t cracked a .900 SP in any of his 3 playoff starts.
This wasn’t really knocking Holtby, I like him. Just don’t think it’s accurate to label him a great, rather than good prospect at this time. But it’s also not really worth arguing about…
Choking since 1985.
3 playoff games = small sample size. And it should be noted that he was shaking in only one start.
To be blunt, Holtby has performed better than both Neuvirth and Varlamov did last season, and unlike Neuvirth and Varlamov, does not have any visible holes in his game.
As a prospect, Holtby is better than either one.
I said it wasn’t worth arguing if Holtby was a good or great prospect, but I’m not going to let you get away with saying he is a better prospect than both Neuvy and Varly.
The reason his sample size is so small is because he hasn’t done anything to justify getting a bigger one, and Neuvy is superior at this point. Glad you have such a hard-on for Holtby…but keep it real, please! :-)
Choking since 1985.
I am keeping it real. I’ve seen both at the same level, and I’m sorry, but while Neuvirth and Varly are both further along in their development than Holtby, Holtby has the better game and better future.
All three are excellent, I’m not saying they aren’t. I’m just saying that Holtby is the better prospect (not player) at this point. He was supposed to be in Carolina, and he forced the organization to change their plans for him, despite (a) him not being high in their plans at this point and (b) their desire to keep Holtby in a starting role. Circumstances allowed them to make that change, but Holtby gave them a reason to.
Holtby didn’t force that, injuries did. If Varly and Neuvy were healthy I don’t think Holtby plays in the AHL. He may have had great rookie pro success, but so have the other two. I don’t know how you can say that Holtby is the better prospect right now; it’s not like Neuvy or Varly have stumbled. I’m not sure what holes in their game you see that makes Holtby better. Goalies take time, and I’m not sold on any of them yet, but especially not Holtby.
I waited all year for this?
Neuvy’s only the best goalie in the AHL. He also happens to play pretty damn well in the NHL when needed. Give Holtby some time. I didn’t exactly expect him to establish himself in the AHL this season.
#savethekittens!
Donation info for SAVES FOR KIDS 2010!! Make a difference.
Plus it’s his first (?) full AHL season, isn’t it? Goalies can sometimes take a loooong time to develop – just ask Olie Kolzig. There aren’t many Ken Drydens and Patrick Roys out there who can step right into the big leagues and win a Stanley Cup, let alone a Calder Cup.
yeah, he was still in juniors last year, iirc. And he was slated to be in Carolina this season. He started the season there and got called up to Hershey when Varly went down with injury and Neuvy was promoted.
#savethekittens!
Donation info for SAVES FOR KIDS 2010!! Make a difference.
wait, you meant Neuvy, didn’t you?
#savethekittens!
Donation info for SAVES FOR KIDS 2010!! Make a difference.
He is also doing it with a team that is loaded by AHL standards. Next year, with Carlson, Alzner, and Neuvirth having likely graduated (perhaps Perreault, too), Holtby will have to carry a bigger share of the load. Not saying he can’t do it, but it will be a bigger role. I just don’t assume — based on this year’s performance and the drafting history of this team — that he will. That’s not pessimism as much as it is modulated exuberance.
If you've read this far...seek help.
Holtby played 35 games this year, while also playing 13 in the ECHL (which is where he was supposed to play this season, so he could get starting minutes). Neuvirth played only 22 between injury and and call-up. He already has had the bigger role.
Possibly the worst misuse of stats we'll see today.
Who has gotten the lion’s share of playoff starts? That’s who has the bigger role. Don’t get too smart for the room.
I waited all year for this?
The issue that Peerless brought up was workload. For most of the season, Holtby has been called upon to be the starting goaltender for the Bears because of Neuvirth’s absence due to injury and his call-up mid-season. His role next season will not be much different. That’s the point I was making, and I still don’t see why that point is inaccurate.
Playing more minutes =/= bigger role. That’s the point I’m making. Yeah, Holtby got more AHL regular season minutes than Neuvirth, but when Neurvith was healthy and in HER who got the net? Neuvirth. When it’s playoff time and the team wants a go-to goalie, who is it? That, to me, speaks to who has the bigger role more than TOI or total games played.
I waited all year for this?
....
Neuvy was also just finishing up rehab of his latest groin pull.
by EmilyB on Jun 2, 2010 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
the gymnastics coach in me sees that picture and goes “His hips aren’t square! ARUGH!”
#savethekittens!
Donation info for SAVES FOR KIDS 2010!! Make a difference.
That’s it! He doesn’t need a goalie coach, he needs a gymnastics coach!
(Y’know, I meant that to be funny, but perhaps there’s some truth to it. Maybe goalies could use some gymnast training…)
In my country, they speak of a man so virile, so potent, that to spend a night with such a man is to enter a world of such sensual delights most women dare not dream of. This man is known as the “Comedian”.
Choking since 1985.
No, he hasn’t had the bigger role. He has played more games. Hershey is so loaded on offense that a goaltender doesn’t have to win many games on his own. He will be called upon to do just that next year. Hershey is likely to come back to the pack some after five years of being just about the top of the heap.
If you've read this far...seek help.
Although they will be missing both Alzner and Carlson and possibly Perreault, most of the team is likely to remain intact while also getting Della Rovere, Eakin, Kugryshev, and probably Stevenson and Gus. I’m not sure how far they’re going to fall back.
Also, if I’m recalling correctly, Holtby forced his way onto the Hershey roster when Neuvirth came back because he stole several games for Hershey back early in the season. Unfortunately, I can’t find a game log anywhere.
Game logs here: http://theahl.com/stats/schedule.php Click on the calendar thingy to look at the earlier gamesheets.
I’m not sure I’d agree with assessing any prospect in 2006 or 2008 as "great."
Well, any late rounder, because RAHJC74 seems pretty good ;)
I agree with Peerless. Then again, I’m sure the Caps don’t do much worse overall than other teams, especially with the late rounds. Guys like Lundqvist lying back there are all luck. I can’t fathom anything else.
Cидни Kросби: Александр Oвечкин, он твой папа теперь
Red Line Station: for Capitals fans who can bear reading something less intelligent than a story at Japers' Rink
(note name change)
by red army line on Jun 2, 2010 11:37 AM EDT up reply actions
Pokulok was on a good developmental curve when he suffered two back-to-back concussions in his first pro season in Hershey, and he’s never been the same player since.
Pokie started getting hurt while he was still in college, he didn’t even wait to turn pro. Further, I don’t think Pokie was ever the player GMGM thought he was. Cornell plays in a marginally smaller rink and they recruit to that advantage. They love huge D and they try to muck up the ice as much as possible and kill any pace. They regularly have one of the best defensive teams in NCAA hockey, and their goalies always have great stats, but Cornell D and G don’t pan out very often because it’s so heavily systems related. They don’t recruit for great skaters and they protect the hell out of their goalies. It’s one of the most deceptive NCAA programs around. There’s a reason Cornell has amazing goalie stats every year but we haven’t heard of a Cornell goalie doing shit since Dryden. Same goes for the D, and I’m more than a little bit upset that GMGM didn’t realize that earlier (especially with his NCAA roots). Throw in the fact that he was coming off just a Freshman year in the weakest of the major NCAA hockey conferences and Pokie was a horrible pick; Finley wasn’t much better.
I waited all year for this?
by Rob Parker on Jun 2, 2010 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Injuries happen to all players. Concussions do not, and Pokulok did not have a concussion history before he turned pro. The two concussions were bad enough nearly ended the guy’s career (such as it is).
And McPhee was aware of the systems issue, which is why the Capitals pushed for him to leave college early.
I’d be willing to bet over 85% of NHL players have had a concussion. How each individual responds is unpredictable, and some guys clearly have more difficulty moving on than others. But to say concussions don’t happen to all players is silly. I also didn’t specify what kind of injury, just said that he had injury problems before he turned pro.
If GMGM was aware of the systems issue, he wouldn’t have placed so much value on what was really only a “pretty good” Freshman year. We’re talking about two different systems issues. You are talking about “the system is bad for the player to develop in so he should leave.” That’s the Orlov problem. I’m talking about “the system made his numbers look a lot better than they would have been on another team.” That’s the Scott Clemmensen problem.
I waited all year for this?
Again…Pokulok’s two concussions in the same year nearly ended his career. Also, I never said that concussions don’t happen to all players, I said that he had had no concussion history when he was drafted.
I’m not sure what point you’re trying to make with the systems. Organizations draft players, not systems. Are you actually suggesting that if a scouting department finds a player performing in a bad system, they should avoid that player, even if they believe that player could do better elsewhere?
Sorry, I did say that concussions don’t happen to all players.
And yeah, they don’t. It’s silly to assume that every single player you see on the ice in the NHL, AHL, and in Europe has had a concussion sometime.
I’d actually argue the reverse: it’s silly to assume that any player you see in the NHL hasn’t had a concussion. I’ve had at least 2 concussions playing, most likely 3 or more. And I haven’t played nearly as much hockey, or at the same level, as these guys. I just don’t see how you can play full contact hockey for your entire teen years and not get concussed. Most of them probably go undiagnosed, but like I said, I’d be shocked if the vast majority of NHL players haven’t had at least one concussion.
I waited all year for this?
Most of them probably go undiagnosed
This. Mild concussions or less from what I read go away after a short time. It’s only when you have a serious one and they look at you that they see you’ve had a concussion before.
Cидни Kросби: Александр Oвечкин, он твой папа теперь
Red Line Station: for Capitals fans who can bear reading something less intelligent than a story at Japers' Rink
(note name change)
by red army line on Jun 2, 2010 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m saying there is two concerns with systems:
First concern: the system the player in is bad in terms of player development. You like the player, but you’re afraid if he stays where he is he won’t get any better, and may get worse. That’s how I feel about Orlov. I think that’s how LAK felt about Jack Johnson. There are plenty of examples. This is not the concern with Cornell.
Second concern: the system hides player flaws and makes players appear to be more talented/productive than they are. The player will look like a quality player, but in reality it’s the system he’s in and he wouldn’t produce anything near the same somewhere else. This is what I think about Cornell. You take a Cornell goalie and put him in a less defensive system, and they won’t have gaudy numbers. You take a Cornell D and you put him on bigger ice and make him skate a bit more and they aren’t nearly as good. Pokie looked a whole lot better because of the way Cornell is coached, IMO.
I waited all year for this?
So Cornell is basically a college SEL-type team?
Cидни Kросби: Александр Oвечкин, он твой папа теперь
Red Line Station: for Capitals fans who can bear reading something less intelligent than a story at Japers' Rink
(note name change)
by red army line on Jun 2, 2010 2:42 PM EDT up reply actions
well, almost as bad is the lack of production the caps have gotten from picks outside the first round. i think when MP85 scored this year he became only the second non first round caps pick to score a goal for the caps since the 2000 draft. the other was chris bourque who has scored one goal. before that it was matt pettinger. of course, neuvirth was a second round pick and no doubt he will have an impact next year and beyond.
picks outside the first round tend to be crap shoots, but teams do find value there. i would expect more than one guy to break out from those picks.
Just trying to capture the spirit of the thing...
I’m quite sure it doesn’t really matter for this conversation, but Kris Beech won the SEL championship this year with HK71.
by EmilyB on Jun 2, 2010 9:41 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
It’s HV 71. You didn’t mess it up quiet as bad as a poor Morning Show host did a few years ago. She said HIV 71 on live TV. Oops, Boom goes the dynamite.
What can I say I’m a JP fangirl. I will follow him into the darkest and filthiest of alleys, even the comment section at Puck Daddy.
Or perhaps the SR-71
If you've read this far...seek help.
by ThePeerless on Jun 2, 2010 10:47 AM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
It is amazing what can be built given enough rocket scientists… awesome technology there. The SR-71 that’s at the Udvar-Hazy center by Dulles set the record for fastest flight from LA to the DC area, covering the distance in 64 minutes and 20 seconds…
Washington Capitals 2009-10 = Quebec Nordiques 1994-95
--- D'ohboy
by MikeL-Pivonka on Jun 2, 2010 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Some perspective is in order, I think.
I think you ought to expect a top 5-10 pick to be 80% likely to make the NHL, 50% likely to be a star.
I think you ought to expect a first rounder outside the top 5-10 to be about 50% likely to make the NHL as a solid contributor.
2nd rounders should be about 25% likely to be a solid contributor.
You should expect to get one solid contributor every two years out of rounds 3-7.
Perhaps my expectations are low, but I think they’re borne out by how teams generally draft. And on that scale, the Caps are doing an average job. Their three recent high picks — Ovechkin, Backstrom, and Alzner — all look good. Green, Schultz, Carlson, Varlamov and Neuvirth are all looking like truly excellent picks. All four guys were taken after players that now have no chance of contributing in the NHL, and all four look like they could really help the team.
All in all, since the lockout, I think this scouting staff has “done its job.” This is always going to be an aspect of hockey with high variance. The things that separate great players from AHLers are so subtle and so luck-dependent that you can’t expect to pick a great player every time. The fact that the Caps have a solid core of four young defensemen and two young goalies that all look like they could be the real deal says to me that they’re doing all right. They ain’t the best in the league, but they’re doing well.
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Jun 2, 2010 9:45 AM EDT up reply actions
(all four five guys…)
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Jun 2, 2010 9:47 AM EDT up reply actions
On Sunday, Five Guys was my first burger in like 4 or 5 months. So good.
But grace can still be found within the gale. With fear and reverence, raise your ragged sail.
by Steckel Me Elmo on Jun 2, 2010 10:58 AM EDT up reply actions
It’s pretty well known that the Capitals overhauled their scouting department after the firesale in 2004, so comparing drafts before then to those after the lockout isn’t all that accurate. Since the overall, they’ve been pretty consistant with picking good talent late in the first round (Schultz, Green, Carlson, Varlamov) with only a few blips (Finley/Pokulok and Gus, all of whom have been derailed by injuries) while improving in the late rounds and finding viable prospects.
That said, 2007 was a hell of a lot worse than 2005. The latter draft looks bad because of the reach in Pokulok in relation to the depth of that draft, but after Finley, the Capitals didn’t pick again until 109th overall in the mid-4th round. Outside of Sergei Kostitsyn and Mr. Irrelevant Hornqvist, there just hasn’t been a ton of solid NHL talent from Andrew Thomas onward. Sad thing is, the Capitals had one of them for a whole hour before trading it—Tim Kennedy.
2007, on the other hand, gave the Capitals a top 5 pick in Karl Alzner and nothing else with :
2nd round—Josh Godfrey, who can’t get into the AHL, and Ted Ruth, who was traded for Fedorov and last we heard, hasn’t impressed Columbus scouts
3rd round—Philip DeSimone, who finally had a decent year in college after being a complete non-factor
4th round—Brett Bruneteau, whose rights were released before they expired
5th round—Brett Leffler, who went unsigned and is still struggling to find a job
6th round—Dan Dunn, a college goalie who had to fight for playing time against a freshman this past season…as a junior (thou, it was his best season), and Justin Taylor, who went unsigned
7th round—Nick Larson and Andrew Glass, who haven’t done much in their college careers, although Larson did come back to hockey after leaving it for a while.
At least the Capitals still have Patrick McNeill from the 2005 draft.
by Forsch31 on Jun 2, 2010 11:01 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Finley, Pokie, and Angus have been derailed far more by their lack of skill/heart than their injuries.
I waited all year for this?
Agreed… tossing a lawnmower into the street at 3AM in a drunken stupor would hinder anyone’s professional aspirations, in hockey or anything else.
“They said they routinely destroy each other’s stuff…” still cracks me up…
Washington Capitals 2009-10 = Quebec Nordiques 1994-95
--- D'ohboy
by MikeL-Pivonka on Jun 2, 2010 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions
not like there’s anything else to do in north Dakota.
#savethekittens!
Donation info for SAVES FOR KIDS 2010!! Make a difference.
3rd round—Philip DeSimone, who finally had a decent year in college after being a complete non-factor
Not that I’m particularly high on DeSimone ever panning out, but that’s not a fair description. He plays at UNH which is one of the most “seniority-based” teams in the entire NCAA as far as ice time. The seniors and juniors will get the top 2 lines and PP/PK duty. The underclassmen just have to suck it up and pay their dues. DeSimone finally got a chance to play top 6/PP and he did pretty well. That said, he had a Hobey Baker finalist on his line as well.
I waited all year for this?
And that Hobey Baker finalists’ presence blew up DeSimone’s stats this season. It’s kinda like when Taylor was playing with a future no. 1 pick; the results really aren’t reflexive of his skill. DeSimone’s coaches (and the player himself) haven’t been pleased with his performance up to this season. He’s in the same make-or-break situation that Dan Dunn is in.
Do you have links to support the statement about DeSimone’s and his coaches’ evaluation of his season? Seems like he stepped up in his first real chance to do so. I have no doubt that his numbers were helped by Butler, but he had to have been doing something right to hold down the 1C spot on one of the better teams in the country all season. He wasn’t great in the tournament, but he had a few points and was solid in his own end.
I waited all year for this?
I’d wager the mere presence of Alzner in the ‘07 draft makes it a lot less worse than ’05, regardless of it being a slam dunk. Not to mention, Ted Ruth ended up being pretty valuable, I’d say. Excepting McNeil, ’05 was worse than awful.
by DrinkingPartner on Jun 2, 2010 11:42 AM EDT up reply actions
Alzner was a slam dunk at the time, I mean.
by DrinkingPartner on Jun 2, 2010 11:43 AM EDT up reply actions
I agree. Getting Alzner is better than anything from the 05 draft. When we talk about trades you hear people say “get the best player in the deal.” Well, it’s not entirely analogous but Alzner was the best player we got out of either draft, by a long shot. That gives 07 the win.
I waited all year for this?
If you’re looking at single picks, sure, but if you’re looking at the overall success of a draft, you have to remember that Alzner was a top 5 pick; if it wasn’t a slamdunk, that pick is a bust. That’s what I meant by guaranteed talent—the guys you pick in the top 5 (top 10 if the draft class is deep) are guys that should have a short trip to the NHL and perform very well when they get there.
The Capitals didn’t have that in 2005. Yeah, they could have done better with 14th overall pick, but the guy they picked had his career essentially ended the year it began. The 2007 draft had 10 picks, including three picks they didn’t have in 2005, and the only guy who’s even remotely a viable prospect is the guaranteed, can’t miss top 5 pick. The 2005 draft has a mid- and a late-first round pick both stunted by bad injuries and a decent prospect found in the 100s.
I understand what you’re saying, but the ‘07 draft is still better than the ’05 draft, because they had a slam dunk. They should’ve had either Crosby or Ryan back in ‘05, but they didn’t, and they completely fucked themselves over with their picks, as there was solid talent, according to everyone following the draft (TSN, THN, etc – whom were both, in this case, completely right about the picks being strange) still on the board for both of those picks. Pokulok was way off the board and Finley was just barely a 1st rounder, even at the time. Had the Caps pulled the same shit with the 5 pick, then I’d agree with you, but they didn’t, so I can’t.
by DrinkingPartner on Jun 2, 2010 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions
The Caps aren’t afraid to reach in the 1st and 2nd rounds if they like a guy. For better, or usually, for worse.
Choking since 1985.
Right, but I’d say it was safe to assume that fuck no one was going to take Pokulok before at least the 2nd round :-).
And I’m saying this with absolutely no evidence.
by DrinkingPartner on Jun 2, 2010 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Finley (why is he still designated an "NHL prospect?")
He’s a forward prospect now… you know, an enforcer, or something like that.
Yeah, I got nothing.
There’s minimal hope. Paul Bissonnette recently made the switch from defense to straight up enforcer forward at a similar age and at the professional level and PB’s kinda, sorta clawed out an NHL career.
If Finley full commits to being a one-trick pony (that trick being punching other guys in the face) he may have a glimmer of hope in the NHL somewhere. Finley has to prove himself as decent a fighter to take the step up. We all know the Grimson/Probert/Laraque/Brashear type true-heavyweight is very much a dying breed though, so it’s definitely an uphill climb, perhaps with almost no chance. But who knows. Crazier things have happened.
If there had been no lockout, no changes in the rules and dimensions of the rink to encourage more offense; if the NHL was still the clutch-and-grab of the pre-lockout days, Finley would be a top-four defenseman in the making. He was drafted for a different game.
If you've read this far...seek help.
Jacques Lemaire still wants to watch it.
#savethekittens!
Donation info for SAVES FOR KIDS 2010!! Make a difference.
Shit, don’t let the Caps trade Finley to MTL.
by DrinkingPartner on Jun 2, 2010 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah, that’s the sort of guy Martin dreams about!
#savethekittens!
Donation info for SAVES FOR KIDS 2010!! Make a difference.
Finley would double their average height.
Cидни Kросби: Александр Oвечкин, он твой папа теперь
Red Line Station: for Capitals fans who can bear reading something less intelligent than a story at Japers' Rink
(note name change)
by red army line on Jun 2, 2010 2:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, it was unfortunately that pick happened in the lockout year draft. Finley, if I’m remembering correctly, was taken around where he was supposed to, unlike Pokoluk.
I really think Stevenson’s signing was to replace Finley. My impression is that the Caps were frustrated by Finley’s desire to remain in college—they understood that decision, but all things equal, they wanted him in their system so that they could work on his skating. Staying all four years in college, then missing a season due to a freak injury probably sent them looking elsewhere.
I don’t think the Caps were that frustrated with Finley staying. GMGM has always said he supports a player’s decision to pursue a degree, and he’s an NCAA guy himself. Add in that Finley looked like he had a long ways to go anyway and there was no real rush to get him to turn pro. Let him see if he can’t improve his skating at UND and save some RFA years if you can.
I waited all year for this?
Thing is, the Capitals tried to get Finley out of college after his sophomore and junior years. Like I said, I’m sure McPhee understood Finley’s decision to stay, but in terms of development, I’m not so sure.
I don’t remember the Caps “trying to get Finley out of college.” If anything, I remember it being the opposite. They showed no urgency trying to sign him, didn’t particularly care that he was unable to get to development camps, and were completely supportive of his decision to stay in college. I can remember being surprised that the Caps didn’t try a little harder to get him out of college. If you have a link where they talk about the Caps trying to get him to leave UND I’d love to see it.
I waited all year for this?
I spent a year in Trenton one weekend… UGH….
Washington Capitals 2009-10 = Quebec Nordiques 1994-95
--- D'ohboy
by MikeL-Pivonka on Jun 2, 2010 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions
On Pokulok, aside from the Caps really trying to go for big defensemen that year, it seems that the only thing he had going for him was his first name. The Caps had previously had great luck drafting guys named Sasha in the first round (or at least who answer to Sasha.)
The third time wasn’t the charm in that case.
(I know. I know, it was a coincidence for first names but still….)
Rocking the Red since 1975
Can’t a hamburger just be a hamburger?
"Do not be afraid to ask for credit, for our way of refusing is very polite."
by Laich It Or Lump It on Jun 2, 2010 7:45 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Mike Green hamburger, NHL ice cream flavors, leftovers.
Next thing you know, Rachael Ray will be making 30-minute meals wearing a hockey jersey.
If you've read this far...seek help.
What’s next: Tomas Fleischmann souffle?
by Kolzilla on Jun 2, 2010 7:48 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions 2 recs
Poti Party Mix (no peanuts)
If you've read this far...seek help.
by ThePeerless on Jun 2, 2010 7:59 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
No peanuts, no wheat gluten… it’s a bag of unpopped corn kernels and salt.
Washington Capitals 2009-10 = Quebec Nordiques 1994-95
--- D'ohboy
by MikeL-Pivonka on Jun 2, 2010 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Reading things in google translate reminds me of sitting in high school French class so many years ago. Precisely translated, but horrible in terms of telling a story.
"It's always good to have vikings."
Yeah, I don’t usually link to such articles for that reason. But it’s Matty.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
And I usually don’t click through to them, either. But it’s Matty.
Unfortunately, my ability to read it in French is worse than reading the google translate. I’ve forgotten almost all of it.
"It's always good to have vikings."
depending on how my day goes, I may give it a try. My french is sorely out of practice, I really need to work on it.
#savethekittens!
Donation info for SAVES FOR KIDS 2010!! Make a difference.
One detail that stood out for me – the Bears were apparently offered the option of beginning the series on the road so it could get started sooner, but they declined.
Porbably should be in the OT thread but is there a reason the Fan Post section isn’t showing up on the home page?
Probably just a glitch that will resolve itself shortly (i.e. nothing I did). If you’d drop a line to support@sbnation.com, though, they’d probably appreciate the heads up in case they’re not aware of it.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
So the Caps’ 1st round loss has apparently gotten them a mention in the comics. Today’s Tank McNamara has the Cleveland Cavaliers braintrust wanting a rule change that the regular season champs get a bye into the finals and guess who they mention as a potential rule supporter.
"Yes, but Rimmer Directive 271 states just as clearly, 'No chance you metal ba****d.'"
hopefully this works
"Yes, but Rimmer Directive 271 states just as clearly, 'No chance you metal ba****d.'"
by apk3000 on Jun 2, 2010 8:46 AM EDT up reply actions 6 recs
I remember after the 1986 World Series when Tank McNamara had people in the future using the term “boston” as a verb which meant “to choke”. Will that word now come back into the vocabulary after the Bruins’ epic collapse.
BTW, I think the NJ Devils might join the Caps in petitioning for first round byes for the top 2 teams in the conference. (I was lobbying for it last year.)
Rocking the Red since 1975
It comes in Mono, not Stereo.
I never travel far....without a little Big Star...
Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Jun 2, 2010 8:50 AM EDT up reply actions
While fully acknowledging that a poor result doesn’t always mean a poor decision, man, the Capitals really dropped the ball taking Eric Mestery 57th overall.
I remember seeing him in the Rookie Scrimmage a few years ago against the Flyers rookies and realizing even then the guy probably wasn’t going to make the big leagues.
I never travel far....without a little Big Star...
Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Jun 2, 2010 8:59 AM EDT up reply actions
I also disagree with the notion that Patrick McNeill is a bust, as that article states he is.
I never travel far....without a little Big Star...
Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Jun 2, 2010 9:07 AM EDT up reply actions
Its seems like their whole argument for that is based on the fact that he won’t be able to crack an NHL lineup because of Alzner and Carlson being in his way, but it completely ignores the fact that (a) its still only his third professional season, and (b) he’s already a substantial upgrade RIGHT NOW over Sloan and Erskine, not to mention that Morrisonn, Jurcina, and Poti don’t really have long futures with the franchise.
I never travel far....without a little Big Star...
Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Jun 2, 2010 9:19 AM EDT up reply actions
I’m not sure it’s accurate to say he’s a substantial upgrade over Erskine or even Sloan at this point. He’s a nice story, but I don’t think he could play in the NHL right now.
I waited all year for this?
I don’t think Erskine and Sloan could play in the NHL right now either.
I never travel far....without a little Big Star...
Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Jun 2, 2010 10:06 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I don’t think Erskine and Sloancouldshould play in the NHL right now either.
Not to put words in your moutn, but probably what you really meant to say. Because obviously they could, as they do.
"It's always good to have vikings."
No, I meant to say “could” ;)
I never travel far....without a little Big Star...
Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Jun 2, 2010 10:10 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, that’s the obvious retort. I still think they do a better fill-in job than McNeil would. I hope they continue to nurture McNeil and let him develop and maybe he can be the home-grown Tyler Sloan in a few years. I’m not giving up on him, but I don’t think he’ll ever be more than a depth D and I don’t think he’s NHL-ready yet by any means.
I waited all year for this?
Erskine and Sloan can play regularly in the NHL now, but probably not for a team as deep as the Caps. Maybe a team like Edmonton or Atlanta…
Washington Capitals 2009-10 = Quebec Nordiques 1994-95
--- D'ohboy
by MikeL-Pivonka on Jun 2, 2010 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Agreed. Mercifully, the Magical Mestery Tour is over.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
And some other FA prospect signings, like Kyle Wilson, Steve Pinnizzotto, Jay Beagle, and of course Dave Steckel make up for some of the failure to draft successfully in rounds 2-7.
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Jun 2, 2010 10:50 AM EDT up reply actions
A former first-round draft pick of Los Angeles and four-year player at Ohio State, Steckel played for the Kings’ minor league affiliate in Manchester, N.H., before being signed by the Capitals in August 2005. The signing was recommended by Bruce Boudreau, who had coached Steckel with the Monarchs.
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Jun 2, 2010 10:57 AM EDT up reply actions
Oh, interesting. Had completely forgotten.
by DrinkingPartner on Jun 2, 2010 11:00 AM EDT up reply actions
Just got a good laugh out of DGB’s Chris Pronger post.
http://www.downgoesbrown.com/2010/06/chris-prongers-other-jerk-moves.html
A clear conscience is usually the sign of a bad memory
I loved the parody video of “Feels Like ’93”
I never travel far....without a little Big Star...
Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Jun 2, 2010 9:39 AM EDT up reply actions
Everytime I read his posts, I feel like this is going to get old sooner or later but it never does and it’s not the same thing over and over again.
I’m amazed at how well he uses sarcasm without the “/snark” Great stuff
I don’t worry about DGB getting old simply for the fact that he can still make a “Wellwood is fat” joke funny.
But grace can still be found within the gale. With fear and reverence, raise your ragged sail.
by Steckel Me Elmo on Jun 2, 2010 9:57 AM EDT up reply actions
Post-loss ritual: cruise interstate looking for families stranded on the side of the highway with flat tire; pull over; slash other three tires; drive away.
"Yes, but Rimmer Directive 271 states just as clearly, 'No chance you metal ba****d.'"
by apk3000 on Jun 2, 2010 9:46 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Gads, DGB strikes again! Kudos to him!
Washington Capitals 2009-10 = Quebec Nordiques 1994-95
--- D'ohboy
by MikeL-Pivonka on Jun 2, 2010 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Reading the Chris Bourque article, it’s amazing how far he’s fallen off the Caps radar as a potential roster player next season. Admittedly, he hasn’t done much with his NHL opportunities, but it’s hard to believe that if Glen Metropolit can find full-time work in the league, Chris Bourque can’t as well. We like to compare Perrault to St. Louis as proof that a small guy can make it in the pros, but really Bourque is a much better comparison.
Height, Weight & Position
St. Louis- 5’9", 177 pounds, Left Wing
Bourque- 5’8, 178 pounds, Left Wing
Age at first full-time NHL Season
St. Louis- 24
Bourque-Turned 24 on 1/29
NHL stats before playing full-time
St. Louis- 1 goals, 1 assist in 13 games
Bourque- 1 goal, 3 assists in 33 games (to date)
Years in Minors before full-time NHL play
St. Louis-3 plus four years in college
Bourque-This is his fifth AHL season
Stats in last AHL season
St. Louis-28g-34a-62 points
Bourque-21g-52a-73 points
Obviously, there’s no guarantee Bourque is going to have anything close to the career of St. Louis, but I’d hate to see the Caps give up on him and have him turn out to be another Andrew Burnette. Clearly, there’s nothing for him to prove in Hershey any longer.
Well, they already (kinda) gave up on him when they lost him on waivers to Pittsburgh, and he was pretty terrible there. I can’t see him ever being more than an AHL player at this point.
I never travel far....without a little Big Star...
Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Jun 2, 2010 9:41 AM EDT up reply actions
Bourque was beyond terrible. He got plenty of ice (including significant chances on the PP) and showed he’s just not good enough to create offense against the elite big, strong NHL defenders.
Put him down a rung in the AHL and he’s great, but he just can’t compete with the top guys. He’ll be the next like Brett Sterling or Darren Haydar (maybe even Aucoin/Giroux) if he stays in North America: smallish terrific offensive players in the minors but just not impact players in the NHL.
From seeing him play those 20 odd games in Pittsburgh I’m really convinced of that.
Yeah I don’t think there were a lot of tears shed when he was lost on waivers. Considering how desperate that team was for wingers, it’s pretty damning that he was shown the door that quickly.
I never travel far....without a little Big Star...
Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Jun 2, 2010 9:55 AM EDT up reply actions
Maybe not tears, but thousands of comments were shed. There were definitely people that cared. A lot.
I waited all year for this?
Using one of your favored lines, if his name was Chris Smith it probably wouldn’t have been the same.
If he hadn’t been re-claimed by the same organization (And if that org. wasn’t Washington) it’d probably barely been a ripple.
In his first couple of years, people paid attention to him because of his name, but I don’t think that’s so much the case anymore, particularly in Hershey. From everybody I’ve talked to up there, he’s definitely one of the most popular guys on the team and a real fan favorite.
He’s a fantastic AHLer. He’s been great in the playoffs and I’m not surprised he’s a fan favorite.
But I’ve yet to see anything out of him, here or in Pittsburgh, that says “hey, this guy is a hidden NHL gem just waiting to bust out”. I don’t know if it’s because he’s played for two teams that just have too much depth for him to crack the lineup or not but my impression with Bourque has always been and continues to be that he’s just missing that extra something to put him into the NHL.
He wasn’t exactly buried behind top line talent in Pittsburgh. Their depth is at C, and they are extremely thin on scoring line W. With the Caps he definitely has the problem of being buried behind many scoring line W (AO, Knuble, Semin, Flash, Laich, Fehr), but I don’t think he ever had that problem in Pittsburgh. Early in the season the only two players that are top-6 wingers on Pittsburgh I’d say are Guerin and Kunitz. Other than that, time is going to guys like Cooke and Dupuis. And while they can be good role players, scoring line wingers they ain’t.
But grace can still be found within the gale. With fear and reverence, raise your ragged sail.
by Steckel Me Elmo on Jun 2, 2010 1:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Part of it (for some of us) had to do with the circumstances — first he was told he’d made the roster, and then that same week he was (surprise!) put on waivers. That he was claimed by Pittsburgh didn’t help matters.
by CapitalCentre on Jun 2, 2010 10:37 AM EDT up reply actions
Most definitely. There were a lot of angry people around here when the Penguins grabbed him and a lot of the same people were delighted when the Caps grabbed him back. Chris has been a good soldier. He’s never complained about not getting much of a chance and he sings the praises of Hershey whenever he’s interviewed. It probably won’t be with the Caps, but there’s got to be a team in the NHL where his skill set can be useful.
Looking back at some of those posts I would have to say there were more comments (and more emotion) for his signing with the Pens than his re-sign back here. I don’t know if this was due to Pittsburgh signing one of our own and the general dislike of the Pens or the disappointment we got him back after he once again failed to produce at the NHL level. Saying a lot of people were ‘delighted’ with his return may be a stretch. Nice guy, great teammate, hard worker and fan favorite—yep. NHL caliber regular who produces valuable minutes—not so sure…
It’s simple. When he left, we all thought he would help the Pens, so it was doubly painful — the thinking was we’d lost a useful NHL player and improved our rivals.
When he came back after proving he wasn’t an NHL player, we knew he wouldn’t help the Caps. So there wasn’t much emotion, beyond general happiness that he could help the Bears.
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Jun 2, 2010 10:53 AM EDT up reply actions
He got plenty of ice (including significant chances on the PP) and showed he’s just not good enough to create offense against the elite big, strong NHL defenders.
I never saw him play in Pittsburgh, so I’ll take your word on how he looked. His stats certainly weren’t spectacular. However, the numbers don’t back up the argument that he got plenty of ice time. In the 20 games he played for Pittsburgh he never got more than 13 minutes TOI and he averaged 9:34. Only Mike Rupp and Eric Goddard averaged less ice time among guys who played 20 or more games. The point I was trying to make with the St. Louis comparisons is that it’s still too early to write him off as a career AHLer
If you check out his game log for this year, he had plenty of games where he had double-digit minutes and shift opportunities. While he spent most of his time down on the fourth line, he was the guy promoted to fill holes when there was an injury.
He just didn’t look like an NHL player.
Maybe he got bad advice about leaving BU after only one season.
If I recall properly, there’s probably a good chance he’d have eventually flunked out of BU. He said he didn’t like being a student.
"It's always good to have vikings."
Exactly. If he were an employee, he would have resigned before he got fired. By his own admission, school was not his thing.
BU is a pretty tough school, too. He’s probably someone who would have benefitted by going to juniors instead.
"It's always good to have vikings."
That’s the truth. My elder daughter was a student at BU around the same time as Bourque but was probably in the class ahead of him (as she is about a year older than him.) She reported that the average grade in her Chemistry class both semesters was C-.
From what she told me, BU had extremely tough grading standards.
Maybe Bourque would have been better off in juniors if he just wasn’t a student instead of going to a tough academic institution.
Rocking the Red since 1975
he back out of a commitment to UNH, right?
#savethekittens!
Donation info for SAVES FOR KIDS 2010!! Make a difference.
I have no idea if he backed out, I just know he’s in the Q (and Team USA didn’t hold it against him…).
I waited all year for this?
Here’s the link about it:
http://www.boston.com/sports/hockey/bruins/extras/bruins_blog/2009/03/bourque_to_skip.html
Rocking the Red since 1975
To add to RCheli, Bourque got 1:30+ on the PP for the Penguins in six games (1:07 per game, respectable considering how little he was used at the end) and he had 2 assists total. Granted, he wasn’t on the #1 PP unit, but Bourque did get length shifts on the man-advantage.
Perhaps I was a bit over-reaching in saying Bourque got plenty of ice-time, but the reason he went from 10:27 average per night in October to 9:34 in November to 4 minutes and off the team by new year’s was related to his performance.
Conspiracy theorists could argue he was a Washington double-agent and he was just trying to sabotage the Penguins playoff chances.
Brent Johnson and Chris Bourque: mission accomplished?
Cидни Kросби: Александр Oвечкин, он твой папа теперь
Red Line Station: for Capitals fans who can bear reading something less intelligent than a story at Japers' Rink
(note name change)
by red army line on Jun 2, 2010 11:46 AM EDT up reply actions
“Plenty of opportunities” might be a better way to put it than “plenty of minutes”
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Jun 2, 2010 10:54 AM EDT up reply actions
Yes that’s true. I initially said he got “plenty of ice” and one could argue 191 total minutes (including decent PP looks) is a pretty long look in a probationary role for an unestabilished NHL player. That does have a lot to do with the opportunity itself, though.
Bourque didn’t play 18+ minutes a night, but he had more than a brief cameo and proved to not be up to snuff for the NHL in Pittsburgh. Based off what he showed, I would be very, very surprised if he ever becomes an effective NHL player and don’t think St. Louis comparisions are that valid. That was my point
I finally found a silver lining, in terms of watching the Hawks vs Flyers tonight. No Chelsea Dagger at Wachovia.
"You ever use smelling salts, every time you type a bad blog?" Brooks Laich
by Carl Putnam on Jun 2, 2010 9:44 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I like that song (and The Fratellis in general), but it does get annoying hearing that one part of the song repeatedly. The part Chicago uses isolated can definitely be very obnoxious, I can see why many hate it (especially Flyers and Canucks fans).
But grace can still be found within the gale. With fear and reverence, raise your ragged sail.
by Steckel Me Elmo on Jun 2, 2010 10:03 AM EDT up reply actions
I enjoy them as well, and liked their last album, so I was kind of bummed when I heard they broke up
Because now I can justify browsing and commenting during the work day with the argument that I am promoting my business.
by Sombrero Guy on Jun 2, 2010 10:21 AM EDT up reply actions
I didn’t like Here We Stand as much as Costello Music but it was still good. Definitely a bummer that they broke up. The only time they ever played live near me was a 21 and older show when I was 18. None too happy about that.
But this is getting OT.
But grace can still be found within the gale. With fear and reverence, raise your ragged sail.
by Steckel Me Elmo on Jun 2, 2010 10:35 AM EDT up reply actions
Considerably more annoying when you hear it 6 times in a single game. I think that first game kind of ruined the song for everyone ;)
by Becca H on Jun 2, 2010 12:21 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Jarred Tinordi was interviewed on “The Pipeline Show” yesterday. He talks draft combine (no puking on the Wingate!), winning gold for the USA as Captain of the U18 team, future plans (Notre Dame or London Knights), and growing up Capitals.
http://www.thepipelineshow.com/clips/season_5/Jarred_Tinordi_June1.mp3
Let’s hope he goes the Notre Dame route, because we might be able to snag another Sergei Fedorov for him if we draft him.
by DrinkingPartner on Jun 2, 2010 10:50 AM EDT up reply actions
Possibly, if we need another O-Def. man.
by DrinkingPartner on Jun 2, 2010 10:53 AM EDT up reply actions
Besides, I’d definitely rather have Bondra if we’re going to draft for genes. I’ll be he’s got his daddy’s legs.
by DrinkingPartner on Jun 2, 2010 10:53 AM EDT up reply actions
Speaking of Teddy Ruth, he’s listed as CBJ’s 11th best prospect.
I never travel far....without a little Big Star...
Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Jun 2, 2010 11:01 AM EDT up reply actions
Interesting article on Deadspin about hockey “fight camp”:
http://deadspin.com/5546689/school-of-fight-learning-to-brawl-with-the-hockey-goons-of-tomorrow
by Kerry Fraser's Hairspray on Jun 2, 2010 11:13 AM EDT reply actions
Brashear article from Russian site
Championat.ru ran a series on “tough guys.” Part 7 is about Donald Brashear. As usual, Google translated, but mostly understandable. If nothing else, look at it for all of the pictures of Donald in action. Although I try, it never goes where it should, so click the Hockey tab, then scroll down below the Videos section to see it.
Alzner in the AHL Chat Room
http://theahl.com/chat-wrap-hershey-s-karl-alzner-p142906
Some good stuff in there.
"It's always good to have vikings."
Another Hershey note
Full house this Sat. at the Giant Center.
"It hit me on the pants. I had protection. It felt good. Why? I wanted to win."
So many fabulous quotes!
Reading Alzner’s comments makes me very happy he is expected to be in the lineup next season.
I’m always trying to do things just a little bit like him because even a little bit of Nick Lidstrom makes a good player, I’d say.
It doesn’t matter where you win a championship, it always helps. Knowing what it takes to get through a playoffs – four series, it’s a long time – so just knowing the feeling you have after you win one series, two series, three series… You definitely have a different feeling, a different mindset….It’s just getting over the mental block that you can sometimes get, and at the same time knowing what it takes to win.
Me and Carly have been playing together for a little bit now, and I think it’s a good match-up. He’s offensive, I’m a little bit more defensive, and we read off each other really well. It’s a nice mesh.
"I’m very happy to hear the news," Ovechkin said when he heard about Backstrom's longterm contract---"because he’s one of the top centers in the world, one of my best friends and we want to play together for a long time. He’s a guy who wants to stay in one place and be comfortable and win, just like me. We talk all the time about playing together, and we talked after the playoffs about how we can win in Washington."
by capsyoungguns on Jun 2, 2010 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions
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