An Evaluation of the Non-Suspension of Marian Hossa
Since Marion Hossa knocked Dan Hamhuis into the boards the afternoon of April 24, the question of whether he should be suspended or not has been debated from up at NBC to messages board like Japers' Rink. Nearly all of the conversation focused on a comparison between the hit by Alex Ovechkin of the Capitals on Brian Campbell of the Blackhawks back on March 14.
This comparison is appropriate, for it is an examination of a precedent situation that it deemed to be similar and for which punishment has already been determined. There is a general notion of fairness in our society that suggests that similar punishment be meted out for similar "crimes." This FanPost is not intended to be survey of all the discourse on the comparisons, but a separate discussion of the case.
First - the evidence:
Ovechkin's Hit
Hossa's Hit
Some information regarding Ovechkin's hit on Campbell and the rest of his season:
- Ovechkin was given a 5-minute major for boarding and a game misconduct.
- Campbell broke his collarbone and did not play again until game 4 of the Blackhawks Western Conference Quarterfinal series versus the Predators. He was absent for just under six weeks.
- This was the 3rd ejection for Alex in the 2009-2010 season. On November 25, he received a major penalty and game misconduct for boarding Patrick Kaleta of the Sabres. Kaleta left the game, but return for the Sabres next game against the Flyers. On November 30, he received a major penalty and game misconduct for kneeing Tim Gleason of the Hurricanes. Gleason returned for the Hurricanes next game on December 5 against the Canucks.
- Following his penalty against the Hurricanes for his hit on Gleason, Ovechkin received a 2-game suspension from the league office as a "repeat offender."
- As a side note, in the other 69 games in which he played in the regular season, Ovechkin amassed 22 minor penalties for 44 minutes.
Here is some background on Hossa's hit on Hamhuis and his season:
- Hossa received a five-minute major for boarding, but no game misconduct.
- He received a total of 9 minor penalties for 18 penalty minutes in 51 games.
- Hamhius did not return for the remainder of the game. While he hasn't officially played in Game 6 of the Hawks-Pred's series, he was quoted by Tennessean.com as saying, ""I'm fine. I'm a little shaken up."
Ok -- so considering the debate on the two - let's look at what Colin Campbell said in the official announcement that Hossa would not be suspended, in which he clearly, albeit not by name, compares the incident to Ovechkin's:
I have made the decision that this play does not warrant supplemental discipline after considering all of the facts, including reviewing the video and speaking with Mr. Hossa. This play is distinguishable from recent incidents by a number of factors, including the degree of contact involved; the fact that the consequences of the play do not appear to be as severe; that this was a hockey play involving a race for the puck; that Mr. Hossa is not a repeat offender; and that the call of a major penalty by the referee was significant and appropriate.
Let's take each point one-by-one:
Degree of Contact Involved
Campbell must be saying that Hossa had less contact on Hamhuis than Ovechkin had on Campbell. To me, visual evidence is inconclusive. Both Hossa and Ovechkin were coming from behind. Both used outstretched arms to make the hit, as opposed to hitting body-to-body.
Consequences Not as Severe
This would appear to be accurate, if, by "consequences," Campbell means injury. Hamhuis practiced with the team the day after the hit, while it was known about Campbell's collarbone before the suspension to Ovechkin was meted out. Some have argued that injuries don't matter; that the hit is what should be viewed. I find it difficult to disagree with this logic. However, the injury situation is relevant if that was part of the reason Ovechkin was suspended, and we are looking for equity with that situation.
Play Involving a Race for the Puck
This is a little gray to me. Ovechkin hit Campbell after Campbell passed the behind him up the boards and visuals clearly show the puck away from Campbell when Ovechkin hits him. Ovechkin most likely thought Campbell was going to take the puck around the net, rather than pass it, and made a decision to hit him to prevent his progress. Although the puck is closer to Hamhuis than it was to Campbell, I'm not clear that Hossa was racing to the puck in the sense that he truly had a chance to outskate Hamhuis. I believe he pushed Hamhuis when it was clear he wouldn't get the puck as a way to dislodge it.
Not a Repeat Offender
Not even debatable. Accurate.
Major Penalty by the Referee was Significant and Appropriate
Yes, a major penalty was called in both. Ovechkin got a game misconduct. This is where it gets a bit interesting. According to NHL rule 42.5:
When a major penalty is imposed under this rule for a [boarding] foul resulting in an injury to the face or head of an opponent, a game misconduct shall be imposed.
So -- did Campbell hurt his head or face? Articles appearing afterward confirmed he had a concussion. Did Hamhuis hurt his head or face? If he can play in game 6, it's hard to say that he had a severe head injury. Hamhuis stood up and skated off the ice under his own power. Campbell was assisted off the ice.
In the end, I think this is a bit of a red herring. I think that, had the referees given Hossa a game misconduct, Colin Campbell could have said the same exact thing about the appropriateness of the penalty. Might the existence of a game misconduct have figured into Campbell's decision? Perhaps. We'll never know.
There is one final factor we haven't considered, and which Campbell doesn't mention -- regular season versus playoffs. For obvious reasons, Campbell can't allude to that. In truth, according to the rules, it doesn't matter. I can't get into Campbell head, but I believe it did matter and was considered. The damage to the Hawks, one could argue, would be more significant now if Hossa was out than the damage to the Caps for two mid-season games against lowly SE division rivals. Personally, I do believe it's fair that the threshold for suspension be a bit higher in the playoffs.
So -- in the end, the key differences in my opinion were a) Ovechkin's history, b) Campbell's injury, and c) playoffs versus regular season (even if unspoken). In my opinion, every other factor cited by Campbell is a wash. Does that result in a one-game suspension or no-suspension for Hossa? That's a judgment call. It seems clear that Campbell didn't want to send a message to Hossa and, arguably, he doesn't need to. It would also seem like Hossa's punishment indeed should have been less than Ovechkin's.
(Caps fans will point to Donald Brashear's suspension in the 2009 playoffs for his elbow to the head of the Rangers Blair Betts as inequity. I disagree using the same criteria as above. First, Brashear had just a wee bit of a history. Second, Betts had a clear concussion. Third, I don't think the Caps were hurt without him. Using those factors, Brashear's suspension seems reasonable in comparison with Hossa and Ovechkin.)
If this FanPost is written by someone other than one of the blog's editors, the opinions expressed in it do not necessarily reflect those of this blog or SB Nation.
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Good stuff, and rec’d. Would comment more but I’ve exhausted all my thoughts on the subject. As mentioned in Clips, I’m more upset that he wasn’t ejected. Another guy serving that penalty might’ve gone to the bench for a change…
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I am also more upset that he was not ejected. The call that was made was boarding, but could have just as easily been called under rule 44, checking from behind, in which case the imposition of a major penalty (there is no minor penalty for this call) carries with it an automatic game misconduct.
44.3 Major Penalty – Any player or goalkeeper who cross-checks, pushes or charges from behind an opponent who is unable to protect or defend himself, shall be assessed a major penalty. This penalty applies anywhere on the playing surface (see 44.5).
44.5 Game Misconduct – A game misconduct penalty must be assessed anytime a major penalty is applied for checking from behind.
12 wins to go.
Let's go Pens!
by PensAreYourDaddy on Apr 25, 2010 9:32 PM EDT reply actions
As am I. You know the NHL is not going to suspend him in the playoffs for something that was neither premeditated nor of malicious intent. However, how does one differentiate between when boarding major merits a game misconduct and when it doesn’t? If you are calling the boarding major, you need to be prepared to call the game misconduct. Otherwise start whipping out double minors for boarding like they do for high sticking. Remember the day when any blood meant a major for high sticking? Now unless you whack a guy in the face, on purpose and hard, you aren’t getting a high sticking major.
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"What do you think this is? Major League Baseball?"- Shea Weber
by Chris Burton on Apr 25, 2010 11:05 PM EDT up reply actions
No, its not because of NSH.
On second thought I think the ejection should have happened, but not the suspension.
Personally I think the only reason the league suspended Ovechkin is because of his “repeat offender” status.
Not because the offense in itself was suspendable.
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Legislating by the degree of injury is a dicey endeavor. There are plenty of legitimate hockey plays that wind up as injuries due to freak accidents and plenty of dirty hockey plays where no injury(thankfully) occurs. This was one of the latter. From everything Colin Campbell said at the time Ovechkin was suspended, it came down to the fact that Brian Campbell was injured more so than prior records, intent to injure, etc. In typical CC fashion, he vacillates and retreats from previous statements made to fit his insane application of justice(or complete lack thereof). The fact that Hossa did the EXACT SAME THING that led to the suspension of another player should matter a hell of a lot more than the fact that a) Hamhuis seems to be okay and b) Hossa has no record. The only way you get rid of these types of hits is to apply justice equally. Put it this way: a player at the end of a losing playoff series does something like this to a member of the winning team who fortunately doesn’t get injured. The sore loser should avoid suspension at the beginning of the next season because he doesn’t have a record and because there was no injury? I call shenanigans.
I agree with your sentiment, but, for whatever reason, Campbell is nearly explicitly saying that he did take the injuries into consideration. That is large part of the reason that led me to conclude the non-suspension was “fair.”
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The major problem with all of this is the fact that the game misconduct is imposed based on the severity of the injury to the player, as determined, I would suppose, by the officials. I am not familiar with all of the league’s officials, but I am fairly sure that most of them are not doctors in the offseason.
So, what’s keeping teams from just telling players to stay down? How long has to go by before the player is deemed injured? Players get blasted all the time and you wonder how they can get hit as hard as they do and not miss a shift. Or come back after some quick medical attention. Suppose Hamhuis misses one shift, returning to the game two mintues later. Do you rescind the major penalty because, it turns out, he’s not really that hurt? What’s to keep players from faking it to draw a longer penalty? Honor? We know how much of that still exists in the league.
The league must get away from the result of a play determining the punishment, and instead get more involved in punishing the act.
I can of course think of one penalty that is called, then adjusted based on injury circumstances: high sticking. But there’s a much more black and white measure of injury: Blood. If there’s blood, it’s going to be five minues (stick fouls against Belanger excluded though, apparently). But a check into the board? Should the referees be looking for eye dialation as a signifier of severity?
If the league wants to get rid of the cheap shots, things like boarding, a la checking from behind, need to be five and a game. Period. End of discussion.
Mm-hmm. And there's a penalty for that?
by Prodigal_Son on Apr 26, 2010 1:42 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
So, what’s keeping teams from just telling players to stay down?
Absolutely nothing. Not the same of course, but I have seen this ploy used in youth hockey and high school hockey from time to time.
As we elaborate on this in this thread, it’s clear that the referees are not following this distinction when “awarding” a game misconduct anyway, as both Kuleta and Gleason returned later in the game, yet OV was ejected in both.
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If there’s blood, it’s going to be five minues (stick fouls against Belanger excluded though, apparently).
Actually, it’s a double minor if there’s blood. 2+2.
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Nothing; the hit was deemed a follow-through.
Except it wasn’t a follow-through from a shot; it was a follow-through from a pass…
Stupid referees!
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I think it kinda-sorta was intentional
…and not a true follow thru. From my seats it looked like he had made his follow-thru and continued to hold his stick up (and even perhaps shifted it slightly to the left to make sure it made contact with his head).
My read on it was that it was one of those split second decisions that went “Crap, he’s coming to nail me, I’ll use my stick to ward him off with” and afterwords you’re pretty horrified at what you’ve done and very sorry.
The minute I saw it I would have called it a 2 minute high stick and said to the benches that it was after the follow through. (And they’ve have hated me for it no-doubt).
Great. Now I have to change my name to "Jaromir meet Alex".
by Chris meet Alex on Apr 26, 2010 4:26 PM EDT up reply actions
er… 4 minute high stick I mean obviously.
Great. Now I have to change my name to "Jaromir meet Alex".
by Chris meet Alex on Apr 26, 2010 4:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Or a major if there’s blood.
Mm-hmm. And there's a penalty for that?
by Prodigal_Son on Apr 26, 2010 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Legislating by the degree of injury is adiceystupid endeavor
Fixed.
Great. Now I have to change my name to "Jaromir meet Alex".
by Chris meet Alex on Apr 26, 2010 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions
IF you’re going for consistency, Hossa should sit one game, maybe two. But of course, consistency is not what the NHL does.
I don’t think Hossa should sit, because it would really only be punishing the result. I wasn’t pro the Ovie suspension either though.
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Well, according to the Flowchart, it fell under the “No, he’s never done anything like this” clause. That meant no suspension for Hossa. When In Doubt, Flowchart out!
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by Kevin Sellathamby on Apr 25, 2010 10:30 PM EDT reply actions
Come on, you’re supposed to use the Playoff Flowchart now!
"Yes, but Rimmer Directive 271 states just as clearly, 'No chance you metal ba****d.'"
That’s the one without Sean Avery mentioned, I take it?
Let's go Caps!
by MikeL-Pivonka on Apr 26, 2010 11:00 AM EDT up reply actions
More like:
Are you a goon? Yes—> See regular season flowchart, add 2 to result
No—> Are you Chris Pronger? Yes—> 1 game
No—> 0 games
Cидни Kросби: Александр Oвечкин, он твой папа теперь
Capitals Coming: for Capitals fans who can bear reading something less intelligent than a story at Japers' Rink
by red army line on Apr 26, 2010 1:56 PM EDT up reply actions
A classic. There’s lost of great stuff at DownGoesBrown.com.
http://www.downgoesbrown.com/2009/11/nhl-suspensions.html
Mm-hmm. And there's a penalty for that?
by Prodigal_Son on Apr 26, 2010 2:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Until the NHL sets a standard and shows consistency making rulings there will be angst/anger/disbelief, whatever word you want, whenever Campbell makes a ruling.
I think that weighing the injury as heavily as Campbell apparently does is a bad idea. Think of some of the variables, what if the player that was injured had a history of concussions. Everyone knows that the more you have the easier and more likely you are to suffer another one. So there’s a borderline hit, like either the Hossa and Ovechkin hits, and the guy has had 3 concussions and suffers another. Should the hitter be suspended because the guy had a higher likely hood of concussion and is now out 3 weeks when the exact same hit might produce no injure what so ever with a player that had never had a concussion?
I am 100% for looking at prior penalties when making these calls but if there is no consistency when the penalties are handed down there is the potential for a severely warped record.
Disclaimer, I am not comparing the Hossa or Ovechkin hit nor am I arguing for or against the penalty handed down in either case. I am simply looking at the reasoning behind the penalties and wondering if that is a fair method instead of looking strictly at the actual act and prior “records” of the players.
Campbell had a concussion? I can’t find any articles confirming this. Every article I can find, like the one below, only mentions the broken clavicle and ribs.
CHICAGO (AP) — Chicago Blackhawks defenseman Brian Campbell has returned to team practice for the first time since he broke a collarbone and a rib after a hit from Washington’s Alex Ovechkin on March 14.
The Blackhawks initially said Campbell would miss seven or eight weeks.
Also, are you sure both Kaleta and Gleason had to leave their games? I don’t recall if Kaleta did but I’m pretty sure Gleason came back to play after the hit.
Also, speaking of inconsistencies, I was reading some of the articles discussing the Hossa hit on Hamhuis and found this comment in one of them. I had forgotten about this hit and it does make me wonder why there was not penalty given to Adams in this case.
The most confusing part in these comparisons for me is the fact that no one has brought up the fact Ovechkin got absolutely demolished by Craig Adams of Pittsburgh a few months back. If you do not know what I am talking about, watch this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gkQKBGAQExQ
But you know what happened on that play? NOTHING. No penalty. No Suspension. Everyone just moved right along because it is Ovechkin who got hit. Who Cares?
In my opinion this play was 100X worse than Ovechkin or Hossa’s by far. Craig Adams clearly saw the opportunity to crush Ovechkin and took it. There was no reason at all for Adams to hit someone who is reaching for the puck like that. Also notice that they were a solid 10 feet from the boards yet he ends up going headfirst and on top of it get absolutely crushed by Adams running into him while he is already against the boards
.
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I did find several sources that said Campbell had a concussion. I googled “Campbell, Ovechkin, concussion.”
I double checked on Kuleta and Gleason. Gleason definitely came back, but I can’t be sure about Kaleta. I stand corrected.
Per your point on Craig Adams — I think there is a clear inconsistency throughout the discipline process in the NHL. In fact, it’s a joke. A complete and utter joke.
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It was said that Campbell was concussed at the game and immediately following by “sources”. The official team report which came out after the disciplinary proceedings had no mention whatsoever of a concussion. Now that all depends on if the team was spoken to by Colin Campbell and what they told him. If they gave him the official report and he still considered a head wound, it’s possible that Colin just has no concept of human anatomy and adding to this his well could have been poisoned by the initial concussion reports.
Colin To trainers: “Does he have a concussion?”
Trainers: “No, he broke some ribs and a collar bone… Initially we thought he may have had one though”
Colin: “Initially you thought that but he was ok?”
Trainers: “Yeah”
Colin: “well I still think it’s a head injury, collar bone is close to the neck and if you initially thought it was a concussion I’m going to go with your initial instincts”
Suspend Colin Campbell!
Ok — take the concussion away for a second.
Even without a concussion, Campbell injuries were clearly worse than Hamhuis’ injuries. That does not appear up for debate.
I do not believe that injuries should be considered when weighting the severity of the action to consider suspension. However, it appears as thought Campbell does consider injuries, which is why I’ve used them as a point for comparison.
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I don’t doubt for one second the those “sources” that said Campbell had a concussion were from the Chicago organization. Everyone knows concussion (except when it comes from a blindside hit) is a magic word if you’re trying to get a guy suspended.
Here’s the TOI report for Buffalo from that game where Ovie hit Kaleta. Looks to me that Kaleta came back and played the rest of the game. Ovie hit Kaleta towards the beginning of the third.
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Thank you.
I looked at the report, but I couldn’t figure out the clock time, as to whether it was time elapsed or time remaining.
The fact that Gleason and Kuleta both came back, strengthens the “repeat offender” argument as to the difference between Hossa and Ovechkin.
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How does the fact that they both came back strengthen the repeat offender argument? I would think it lessens it because it obviously wasn’t so terrible that they missed the rest of the game.
Proud member of the Popsicle Division of the Cupcake Conference.
strengthens the "repeat offender" argument as to the difference between Hossa and Ovechkin.
If you want to discount injuries as a factor in OV’s suspension (which is hard, because of Campbell being out for nearly six weeks), then it puts more weight on the “repeat offender” reason as to why OV was suspended for Campbell and Hossa was not for Hamhuis.
So it “strengthens” the use of the “repeat offender”argument as the difference between the punishments.
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I’ll defend Hossa to a degree.
Ovechkin did have a two hand borderline shove.
Hossa had a one hand nudge. Looked to me like he barely tapped the dude.
One way or another,. you can’t defend either in the boarding call. Both did something that lead to the person going head first into the boards. But boarding doesn’t automatically mean suspension. It’s just a major penalty.
I disagreed with Ovechkin’s ejection and suspension though. And I don’t think one was warranted with Hossa. I think Ovie got it because the NHL had to redirect the “head shot” heat somewhere at the time.
But I will say, Ovechkin had a bit more force in his push.
Elsewhere others have put forward a similar argument that Hossa’s hit was less severe than Ovechkin’s because OV hit Campbell in the back, while Hossa hit Hamhuis under the arms.
Albeit on a Chicago-based blog, here’s one of the articles.
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some reaction:
Hamhuis says “it was a little bit light.”
Ryan Kennedy doesn’t “want to rag on the NHL’s lack of good judgment again, but when the items are so blatant, it’s almost antagonistic.”
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I feel as if the NHL, especially Colin Campbell, felt that it would be best to allow a big-name player (Hossa) to remain in the Stanley Cup Playoffs when his absence could in theory be used as a reason for Chicago dropping two games to Nashville. If you feel as if this assessment is a big one to make, I’d suggest you take a look at who scored the game winner in OT for the Hawks.
I’ll not say that I completely disagreed with the suspension given out to Ovie after his very questionable “boarding” against another Campbell (insert typical conspiracy theory). But what I do have to disagree with is the blatant inconsistency that is being shown by what I can only describe as the ‘Suspension Fairies’ who must be telling Mr. Campbell whether or not to suspend someone for what was essentially the same occurrence.
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by Potent Potibles on Apr 26, 2010 3:22 PM EDT reply actions
Rec'd
Very well summarized. Another instance of Campbell disciplining (or not in this case) based on result rather than the actual action. I’m not a fan, and believe it leads to the opposite of the desired effect, namely unintentionally encouraging dangerous play.
Great. Now I have to change my name to "Jaromir meet Alex".
by Chris meet Alex on Apr 26, 2010 3:40 PM EDT reply actions
hey OH!
Great. Now I have to change my name to "Jaromir meet Alex".
by Chris meet Alex on Apr 26, 2010 4:21 PM EDT up reply actions
HA! Nice avatar
Thank you for including the dummy hint of the number, I needed it.
Great. Now I have to change my name to "Jaromir meet Alex".
by Chris meet Alex on Apr 26, 2010 5:18 PM EDT up reply actions
A boarding penalty shall be imposed on any player or goalkeeper who checks an opponent in such a manner that causes the opponent to be thrown violently in the boards. The severity of the penalty, based upon the degree of violence of the impact with the boards, shall be at the discretion of the Referee.
The section in Bold is where Ovechkin was assessed a Game Misconduct. That section has been interpreted to provide the officials essentially unlimited latitude in the time penalty they can assess as a result of a boarding infraction.
I don’t fully buy into that interpretation, but that’s the justification for the Game Misconduct in the absence of the head or facial injury. Of course, it would be asking an awful lot of the officials to skate over the player being tended to by the training staff to ask him “Hey, how’s your head? Is your jaw hurt at all? Do you think you might have a concussion? No? You just can’t move your arm and you’re struggling to breathe through broken ribs? Oh, only a 5 minute Major in that case.”
I am a hockey fan first, and a Caps fan second.
Thanks for summarizing this point well. The “injury” is a pure discretion of the referee if it is not obvious – i.e., a stretcher or blood gushing, etc.
As long as there is interpretation, these types of calls are judgments. If Hossa had gotten a game misconduct, no one would have argued (except Joel Quennville). If OV had not, no one would have argued (except Joel Quennville).
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Joel Quennville can eat a fucking porcupine.
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