Pick 'Em: Second Line Center
by David M. Getz on Mar 19, 2010 12:00 PM EDT
in Pick 'Ems
345 comments
Undoubtedly the goal of the Capitals on deadline day was the addition of depth. In acquiring Eric Belanger, Joe Corvo, Milan Jurcina, and Scott Walker the team provided itself with insurance against inevitable late- and post-season injuries. It also, for the time being at least, has created questions about who should be in the lineup and what roles players should be playing.
None of these is as interesting as the question of who should be the second line center. For most of the season, the role has been filled by Brendan Morrison, with a brief Tomas Fleischmann tryout yielding mixed results. More recently, the role has been filled by newcomer Eric Belanger who has played well, but hasn't shown the talent or production to definitively lay claim to the spot. It's possible to make the case for Belanger, for Fleischmann, or for Morrison, and with that in mind, here's a quick look at the case for and against each.
Eric Belanger
The case for: Though not a major offensive weapon, Belanger is a strong defensive player and a good faceoff man, and with the offensive talent the Capitals have - both as a team and on the second line - a responsible, fundamentally sound player who's going to avoid mistakes and contribute in his own end might be all the team needs. Plus, it's not as if Belanger's offensively inept; his speed and hands mean he can contribute in the offensive zone, even if he's not going to be the guy the offense runs through.
The case against: So Belanger's not a disaster in the offensive zone. That doesn't mean he's not a bit of a stretch as a second line center - for all that you can praise about Belanger, the truth is it'd be nice to have someone who can create a little more offense in that spot. Using Belanger as a second line center also means the Caps can't use him as a third line center, missing out on an opportunity to create a very fast forward group by getting him on the same line as Jason Chimera.
Tomas Fleischmann
The case for: At this point in the careers of these respective players, Fleischmann is clearly the best in the offensive zone. He's a fluid skater, has very good hands, and is capable of creating opportunities for his linemates and putting the puck in the net himself. While Flash has generally played as a wing and has found success at the position, the case can be made that playing as a pivot allows him to best utilize his offensive skill because it gives him a chance to direct the offense.
The case against: Simply put, Fleischmann's not a great defensive player and has posted mediocre GAON/60 numbers both this season and last. Flash has also struggled on the dot, winning less than 44% of his draws on the season and faring even worse in road games. Finally, using Fleischmann as a center has a ripple effect on the Capitals lineup, forcing either Morrison or Belanger in to duty either as a fourth line player or a winger, if not both.
Brendan Morrison
The case for: Of the the three viable options, Morrison might have the best combination of talent and savvy. He's certainly had the success at the NHL level, and has played more NHL playoff games than Fleischmann and Belanger combined. Morrison also has an advantage over Fleischmann as a natural, defensively sound center who can wins faceoffs, and over Belanger as a guy with better hands and offensive instincts who has had an entire season to get just to playing with his Capitals teammates.
The case against: It almost boils down to one word: performance. The four points in his last two games - both against teams that aren't likely to be in the postseason - notwithstanding, Morrison hasn't played all that well in 2010, and has just two goals and 13 assists in his last 29 games. He might bring more natural ability than Belanger, but right now it's hard to say for sure that he'll be more productive, especially considering the road ahead is only going to be more grueling.
Ultimately the Capitals are in a pretty fortuitous position: the have a number of viable options for their second line center, and the odds of someone being a complete bust are pretty small. But the challenge isn't just to avoid busts, it's to put the best team on the ice, and figuring out which one of these guys does that for the Capitals isn't so simple.
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I am a huge Morisson fan, but I think putting him at 3C will work out well. Belanger at 2C. Chimera, BMo, Fehr @ 3.
I like the Washington Capitals.
I agree, Bmo plays great with Chimera and Fehr. Belanger seems to be getting a little bit better with every game, and flash can’t win faceoffs, so..no
~~~ R0cK D@ R3D ~~~
by Chaz-Capapalooza on Mar 19, 2010 12:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Chimera is my favorite late addition to this year’s roster. He was a perfect fit for the Caps style of play. His combination of speed and toughness make him a useful addition to just about any line. With B.mo and Fehr, on the 3rd line with him, I’m not sure there’s a better 3rd line in hockey. Hell, that’s a good second line by most standards.
Chimera’s speed is stunning. He’s not just fast, he’s also very quick. Not only is his speed outrageous, but it seems he’s at full speed in about 3 steps.
I am a hockey fan first, and a Caps fan second.
by iwearstripes on Mar 19, 2010 1:05 PM EDT up reply actions
I also agree, but once 8 is back if your second line is 21-18-28, and your third line is above, then where do you play Flash? We all know Bruce won’t skate him on the fourth line.
Game-Over Green? Canada-Over Carlson!
by Scott in Shaw on Mar 19, 2010 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Good point. BB will do what’s best for the team and Flash will be a healthy scratch….juuuust kidding.
I like the Washington Capitals.
He’ll sit Eric Fehr.
And we’ll all facepalm
I want to be your honey but I got a sweet tooth
Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Mar 19, 2010 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
with the way fehr is scoring goals that would be a terrible decision
~~~ R0cK D@ R3D ~~~
by Chaz-Capapalooza on Mar 19, 2010 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Yep.
I could see the lines shaking out like this (especially if Gordo’s back issues persist):
8-19-22
21-18-28
14-9-16
25-39-10
I think that’s vastly under-utilizing Chimmer, but with those 12 forwards (plus Walker and Laing), that might make the most sense to me.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
And we’ve had a few games with these exact lines, already, haven’t we?
by DrinkingPartner on Mar 19, 2010 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Probably – we’ve had a few games with just about every possible combination, I think.
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As skilled as Laich is, I’d rather see
14-18-28
25-9-16
21-39-10
Laich plays really well as adds threat to the grind line: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pG_3VZ8OEA4
You had me at no problem.
I REALLY like that 25/9/16 line.
I want to be your honey but I got a sweet tooth
Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Mar 19, 2010 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions
I love what I saw, but I’m withholding judgement….hopefully BB will keep them together for a minute to see how they produce against stronger competition.
Same here. They were great last night.
I want to be your honey but I got a sweet tooth
Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Mar 19, 2010 1:03 PM EDT up reply actions
And in Florida. If Chimmer could finish better, he’d have had two or three last night.
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He’s like Russ Courtnall. Skates like the wind, has hands like mud.
I want to be your honey but I got a sweet tooth
Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Mar 19, 2010 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions
If Chimmer could finish better, we wouldn’t have gotten him for Chris Clark and a late round pick.
Killer_Carlson and Steckel Me Elmo are like brothers to me. And when I say brothers I don't mean like actual brothers. I mean it like how black people use it, which is more meaningful, I think.
by Fehr and Balanced on Mar 19, 2010 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions
If my aunt had balls, she’d be my uncle?
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by J.P. on Mar 19, 2010 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Exactly. Chimera is a totally different player with finishing skills. He’d be a great-to-elite NHL player if he could skate like that and score.
Killer_Carlson and Steckel Me Elmo are like brothers to me. And when I say brothers I don't mean like actual brothers. I mean it like how black people use it, which is more meaningful, I think.
by Fehr and Balanced on Mar 19, 2010 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Agreed. I like Chimmer for what he is and think he’s an upgrade on Clarkie for sure, but I’m not sure why there’s so much enthusiasm for the “once he starts potting those point blank opportunities, look out!!!” line of thinking. He’s 30 yrs old and has never had more than 17 goals in an NHL season.
Where’s “the enthusiasm for the ‘once he starts potting those point blank opportunities, look out!!!’ line of thinking” you’re referencing?
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maybe I’m misreading game thread comments that are just frustration w/ his inability to pot it with wishcasting that someday he will.
Then Laich gets ~ 14:30 of ice time per night, down from the 18:21 he currently averages. Not sure that makes much sense to me.
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Yeah, that is an issue. But BB’s ice time numbers don’t always make sense, either.
You had me at no problem.
We probably would.
This year, our 4th line has gotten more ice time now that we don’t have Brash anymore.
Rocking the Red since 1975
Actually, Steckel’s ice time per game is down (by more than a minute). Boyd Gordon’s is down by more than three. Brads’ is up ~30 seconds per, though.
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Brads 08-09 TOI/G: 9:41 ES, :49 PK & :05 PP
09-10: 9:33 ES, 1:24 PK & :06 PP
In case you were intensely curious.
"I know I was the best CIA agent the CIA ever had, but I thought I told you honkies from the CIA that Black Dynamite was out of the game!"
by Bald Pollack on Mar 19, 2010 6:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Fact.
And, to be fair, you’d be cutting Laich’s even strength ice time, where he’s not necessarily a stand-out performer.
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Holy crap. Fehr is a beast when you look at those numbers. Third in goals/60, fourth in points/60, third-to-last in GAON/60, fourth best Rating.
Some of that data suggests it might be worthwhile to put Morrison and Fehr on a line together, since both have good GA/60 numbers. It kind of makes 25-9-16 start to look like our version of the “Czech line” (Vrbata-Hanzal-Prucha) in Phoenix: a good defensive combo with some offensive potential.
GUTEN TAAAAAAAAAAAAG!
The fact that they are so defensively responsible is what makes it so appealing. You don’t need scoring from your third line; you just need them to keep the puck out of the net and play 200 feet from your goalie. But that third line most definitely can score, but it’s not a big risk/reward line so you can still be confident with them on the ice against almost any other line.
Killer_Carlson and Steckel Me Elmo are like brothers to me. And when I say brothers I don't mean like actual brothers. I mean it like how black people use it, which is more meaningful, I think.
by Fehr and Balanced on Mar 19, 2010 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions
I understand Laich may not get as much ice time…but the 21-39-10 line was a great shut down line last year in the playoffs with a huge offensive upside…ok maybe not huge but good. Reward Laich with PP time? The only down side about that is that takes away the net presence on that line!
I went to a fight, and a hockey game broke out!
Laich is not a 4th liner and that second line would get blown off the puck by a stiff breeze.
Killer_Carlson and Steckel Me Elmo are like brothers to me. And when I say brothers I don't mean like actual brothers. I mean it like how black people use it, which is more meaningful, I think.
by Fehr and Balanced on Mar 19, 2010 2:24 PM EDT up reply actions
I have a feeling it could end up like that. Maybe give Chimera some time on the PK or something to make up for having to do the grunt work.
Really wish someone from Hershey was ready for 2C though. 18 and 9 are both perfect 3Cs but they seem to really be forced to play well beyond their level on the Caps 2nd line.
I just hope to never, ever see Flash playing center in the playoffs. It’d be a disaster if he ever had to go up against another scoring line.
President and sole member of the Erskine lobby.
Scoring lines in the playoffs are more skilled. And Flash hasn’t been playing center since the deadline, right?
You had me at no problem.
Scoring lines in the playoffs are more skilled.
Sorry I still don’t understand. How are scoring lines in the playoffs different than the regular season?
Better teams. Caps haven’t been playing strong competition generally and Flash is still very new to playing center.
He’s awesome in the offensive end, he just lacks defensive conscientious playstyle in his own end. I know centers have a ton of responsibility so I can’t knock the guy for not picking it up immediately but between that and the lack of him being anywhere near a 50% faceoff man means once he’s going up against guys like Crosby, he’s going to be more of an anchor than a sail.
President and sole member of the Erskine lobby.
really need to learn to stop putting dashes next to words, and go with the asterisks
awesome
President and sole member of the Erskine lobby.
It’s not just learning assignments for Flash. He routinely blows elementary tasks in the defensive zone; stuff you learn when you are a kid. In Vancouver he utterly failed to cover for a Mike Green pinch. In Chicago he just floated through the high slot and made a weak, one-handed play on the puck instead of bearing down and getting the clear. That sort of stuff is inexcusable, IMO.
Killer_Carlson and Steckel Me Elmo are like brothers to me. And when I say brothers I don't mean like actual brothers. I mean it like how black people use it, which is more meaningful, I think.
by Fehr and Balanced on Mar 19, 2010 2:28 PM EDT up reply actions
I guess I just disagree with both of those statements. The teams the Caps will be facing for the first three rounds are the same teams they’ve played the entire season….with minor adjustments.
The cliche “the Playoffs are different” is crap IMO. More pressure sure…and supposedly the whistles are put away, but other than that, it’s still the same game of hockey.
And considering how playoff hockey changes, it’s fair to expect Flash to see a decrease in production that’s relatively greater than most of our other Fs.
Killer_Carlson and Steckel Me Elmo are like brothers to me. And when I say brothers I don't mean like actual brothers. I mean it like how black people use it, which is more meaningful, I think.
by Fehr and Balanced on Mar 19, 2010 2:30 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
You mention Gordo’s back issues, and to me that raises a question at least as interesting: who’s the 4th line center if Gordo’s healthy? Stecks is better at face-offs and on the PK, but Gordo has speed and at least some offensive upside. It’s hard to imagine BB benching Stecks, who seems to be as much a favorite as Flash.
Given how shitty the team’s PK is, I’d make the argument that they should both get sweaters (and I’m not so sure that Stecks is the better PKer).
Agreed that Stecks is a big-time Bruce fave.
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I think you keep Gordo-Steckel-Bradley. Every faceoff in the playoff is going to be that much more important and having two guys that can dominate the dot out there gives you that much better of a chance.
Plus Gordo is solid on the PK and you can’t ignore that for the playoffs. If Boudreau has to double stint guys like Backstrom or Laich or other PK stalwarts, you have Gordo there as well as Steckel.
President and sole member of the Erskine lobby.
I see them going like this:
8-19-22
21-9-28
14-18-16
25-39-10
These line combinations give you the most potential for a dominant top two lines if BMo finds his early form in the playoffs. It also means that the LW position is filled with scoring potential top-to-bottom which is a nice balance to our two right-side scoring defensemen.
I wouldn’t be surprised if during the playoffs, we see 21-9/18-28 for faceoffs but 21-14-28 when changing on the fly. It really seems that since the streak, the chemistry on that line is all about Laich and Semin and the center just needs to stay out of the way and play decent defensive hockey. But if I had to bet, I would go with BMo centering just because he has the most potential to be the right balance of offense and defense.
Red Square is such a great line. Wholeheartedly endorse keeping it.
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Voted for Morisson, if only because we’ve seen him go on a big points-scoring run within this system earlier in the season (and because I think it’s otherwise a wash between he and Belanger).
My ability to post is only surpassed by my ability to pinch pennies.
Same for pretty much the same reason. Bmo back on track is better than Belanger at the same.
by DrinkingPartner on Mar 19, 2010 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree with you both, but I voted Belanger because of how good Fehr/BMo/Chimera has been. If/When Semin gets hot, it won’t matter who the C is and Belanger will be just fine. If he can win faceoffs and play D at ES then Semin will take care of the offense when he’s on. When Semin’s off, it doesn’t really matter who the C is. Semin makes that line go. Maybe Belanger would have the same chemistry with Chimera and Fehr, but we haven’t seen it yet so I’d keep BMo there.
But it’s all moot because once AO is back Flash will go back to 3L. Wouldn’t want to leave the coaches pet in the press box even if it’s our best lineup. Ugh.
Killer_Carlson and Steckel Me Elmo are like brothers to me. And when I say brothers I don't mean like actual brothers. I mean it like how black people use it, which is more meaningful, I think.
by Fehr and Balanced on Mar 19, 2010 2:34 PM EDT up reply actions
That third line is a fantastic one, and anybody with their head screwed on right should be able to pass to Semin while Laich makes plans to visit the bread aisle, right?
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Could we consider the 3rd line a second 2nd line?
by Gin and Tonic on Mar 19, 2010 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions
It’d be a pretty crappy 2nd line in terms of offensive production.
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Really? I thought 25-9-16 were doing all right in that regard.
by Gin and Tonic on Mar 19, 2010 3:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, in 23 man-games since the break, they have 7 even strength goals and 7 ES assists among the three – basically just under a goal and an assist per game.
Obviously if they were getting 2nd line minutes, you’d expect those numbers to be a little bit higher, but it’s still a pretty weak second line offensively, IMO. But maybe I’m just spoiled with the Caps’ juggernaut of an offense.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
I was going to say this. It’d be a crappy 2nd line in terms of offensive production for us, but maybe not elsewhere. So, rather than considering the 3rd line a second 2nd line, maybe the 3rd line is a comparable-to-other-teams’-second-lines?
Usually I sign in cursive, but I can't find the button for it.
That’s more what I meant. Our second line could be a first in NY, Toronto, maybe others – at least right now.
I would like to see how our second and third line’s numbers stack up in terms of the others in the league.
by Gin and Tonic on Mar 19, 2010 3:20 PM EDT up reply actions
You’re not. It’s a great 3rd line and a blah second line.
"You want to start being part of the Rink? Fine, but more’s expected of you than John/Jane Cap Fan. Carry the cause of informed discussion to the unwashed masses and don’t crap in the yards of other SBN sites if you decide to go over there. They’re passionate about their teams too, no need to troll elsewhere and/or be a sore winner." --BP
Who were BMo’s wingers earlier in the year when he was putting up his best numbers? If I remember correctly, we were seeing a lot of the Care Bears, so who was pulling major minutes on line 2? Did he just have better chemistry with those players? Is he now playing more with those guys when he is now on the 3rd line?
by HateOffSeason on Mar 19, 2010 7:05 PM EDT up reply actions
He actually had some good chemistry with Knuble. I think the other winger on that line rotated between Flash, Laich, and if I’m not mistaken, Fehr on a couple of occasions.
There's a fine line between arrogance and ignorance and only I manage to erase that line.
B Mo started off the the 2nd line with Knuble and Laich and that line started off really well.
Agreed, he had great chemistry with Knuble. Ovi, BMo and Knuble worked well together. And when Ovi was out with his injury, we saw his with Flash and Knuble.
I don’t recall Fehr and Knuble ever being together this year. But Fehr was usually on the 2nd line when Semin and/or Knuble were out. And Fehr has done well with B Mo on his line.
Rocking the Red since 1975
I’d rather keep the Care Bears split up than go back to mixing and matching the 2nd line in hopes that BMo finds his early season form.
Of all our iniquities ignorance may be the worst
by Killer_Carlson on Mar 19, 2010 9:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Wasn’t my point, and I agree about the Care Bears. I was more asking, because I can’t remember, if the guys he has been playing with on the 3rd line were actually the guys he had chemistry with before on the 2nd.
by HateOffSeason on Mar 19, 2010 10:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, sorry. I didn’t mean to suggest that you were making that argument. I was just pointing out that I don’t want the top line broken up to get BMo going.
Of all our iniquities ignorance may be the worst
by Killer_Carlson on Mar 19, 2010 10:20 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m strongly leaning Belanger at 2C, sorta by default because I like the way that leaves the 3rd line (25-9-16), and because his defensive responsibility and faceoff ability bring a lot to the 2nd line (so maybe it’s not really by default after all), but I’m willing to be convinced otherwise.
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It’s tough, but if it was up to me and everyone was healthy, I think I’d sit Flash – there’s no indication that offense will be a problem for this team, and he doesn’t bring much else to the table. But, like I said above:
I could see the lines shaking out like this (especially if Gordo’s back issues persist):
8-19-22
21-18-28
14-9-16
25-39-10
I think that’s vastly under-utilizing Chimmer, but with those 12 forwards (plus Walker and Laing), that might make the most sense to me.
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Btw, added bonus to scratching Flash: you get to argue that “he wasn’t even assured a sweater for the playoffs” when negotiating with him this summer.
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Yeah, but he’ll be represented by Bruce, so I wouldn’t put too much stock in that ;)
I want to be your honey but I got a sweet tooth
Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Mar 19, 2010 1:48 PM EDT up reply actions
All the more power to GMGM – “His own father didn’t even dress him in the playoffs!”
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by J.P. on Mar 19, 2010 1:50 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Add to that his frequent whiffs on one-timer attempts, and I think it’s a rock-solid case.
My ability to post is only surpassed by my ability to pinch pennies.
He need to learn how to do the Stamkos one-knee thing
I want to be your honey but I got a sweet tooth
Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Mar 19, 2010 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions
/needs
I want to be your honey but I got a sweet tooth
Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Mar 19, 2010 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Brett Hull was the best I’ve ever seen at that.
Killer_Carlson and Steckel Me Elmo are like brothers to me. And when I say brothers I don't mean like actual brothers. I mean it like how black people use it, which is more meaningful, I think.
by Fehr and Balanced on Mar 19, 2010 2:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Jeez, those are getting a bit too frequent, aren’t they? Play him with one of the best passers in hockey and he folds like a cheap suit.
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It’s given me back a reason to dislike him.
My ability to post is only surpassed by my ability to pinch pennies.
He folds so much his name should be “Ben”.
And there should be 5 of him.
I want to be your honey but I got a sweet tooth
Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Mar 19, 2010 1:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Man, BB stays up at night thinking about what he could do with 5 Flashes.
Killer_Carlson and Steckel Me Elmo are like brothers to me. And when I say brothers I don't mean like actual brothers. I mean it like how black people use it, which is more meaningful, I think.
by Fehr and Balanced on Mar 19, 2010 2:40 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Someone posted team production (by player) without Ovechkin in the line-up. Seems that Backstrom and Flash certainly had that chemistry the first time through, but for whatever reason they’ve haven’t been able to find it during this 2 game stretch.
And his defensive liability. It’s not much of a question to me. Sure he has pure skill, but that’s not enough and we already have tons of that. Fehr is matching his production with less ice, and less quality ice. Which player in the 12 that J.P. and I would like to see is worse defensively than Flash? He’s not indispensable offensively, and he’s a liability defensively….
Killer_Carlson and Steckel Me Elmo are like brothers to me. And when I say brothers I don't mean like actual brothers. I mean it like how black people use it, which is more meaningful, I think.
by Fehr and Balanced on Mar 19, 2010 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Flash is either white hot (or not at all). At his best, he can carry the team offensively, which is essentially did back in Nov.
(Ovi was out most of that month. Semin was playing hurt, and finally sat out. Knuble was out for a while, as well.)
Rocking the Red since 1975
finally someone says it. . .seems like everyone forgot the heroics he pulled back in November.
Flash is one step away from scoring a ton, and i mean a ton, of goals.
Most of the lay-ups he missed were against Legace, Turco, Peters, Vokoun all making some incredible saves. Once he starts putting them in, he’ll put some great numbers up for his line.
I think the 2nd should be Laich-Belanger-Semin. With Laich and Semin on that line, it isn’t going to matter how great the center is going to play, just whether or not Semin decides to show up, and Laich elevates.
I think the biggest question now is who we want on the LW, Chimera, or Flash.
Bah-Ram-Ewe, Ovechkin will wreck you. Fear the Furious Fleece!
What you’re watching with Flash is regression to the mean in action.
There's a fine line between arrogance and ignorance and only I manage to erase that line.
Flash is usually better earlier in the season than later. I wonder if it’s a matter of stamina. I’m sure his health problems have contributed to that. Last year, it was pneumonia which sapped his strength. And then there was his deep vein thrombosis. (I’m sure that did not help his conditioning any.)
It isn’t just regression to the mean in action. We just have not seen a healthy Flash for a whole year.
Rocking the Red since 1975
The clotting issues certainly didn’t help Flash’s overall health this year, but it actually didn’t hurt his conditioning any.
If I remember correctly, while he was waiting for clearance to play, and while he couldn’t take part in any contact drills, he was a weight room warrior. He put on like 10 pounds of muscle while waiting to get back on the ice.
And that added weight really showed early in the year as he was much harder to get off the puck, and was more able to survive in high traffic areas.
I would suggest that this year the cause of slowing down for him is that he probably hasn’t been able to maintain that level of fitness in the weight room over the length of the season, and has probably lost some weight and muscle.
by HateOffSeason on Mar 20, 2010 2:36 AM EDT up reply actions
Flash and Fehr have been a pretty good wing combination this year, so I think 14-9-16 will work out just fine. As much as I love 25 right now, with this personnel group, he should be on the 4th line.
I’d sit Flash
Talkin’ ’bout a REVOLUTION here, now, brother.
I think it’s you, me and F&B on this bandwagon at present…any others?
"You want to start being part of the Rink? Fine, but more’s expected of you than John/Jane Cap Fan. Carry the cause of informed discussion to the unwashed masses and don’t crap in the yards of other SBN sites if you decide to go over there. They’re passionate about their teams too, no need to troll elsewhere and/or be a sore winner." --BP
I’m with you. Back during the trade deadline when I read the Japers’ piece on who to trade—Flash or Fehr—I chose Flash although I like the idea of having him for backup should one of the centers or wingers gets injured. I really like the energy of the Chimera, BMo, Fehr line. They may not always get the puck in the net but they sure do seem to get that puck into the offensive end. IMO of course.
by capsyoungguns on Mar 19, 2010 4:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes, I voted to keep Fehr. He seems to continue development in several aspects of his game. I like him a lot. I like Flash, but he is more unidimensional and appears excitable on the ice.
I’m ambivalent about BMo vs Belanger. I feel that Belanger might be the better fit with Semin & Laich with more time together. I think he has more speed than BMo. With BB, he’ll go with one until it does not work, then throw the other in there.
How many other teams would kill to have this problem?
"The Caps fan doesn't say, 'is the glass half full' or 'is the glass half empty'. He wonders when the glass is going to spill."
by gfcaps fan on Mar 19, 2010 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Voted for Belanger, though I am probably the only guy in the B-Mo lobby. I’m loving the Fehr – B-Mo – Chimera line, and I think it meshes quite well that B-Mo seems comfortable there.
Everyone wants to kill the king. But the prince, he just sails along telling all the ladies, "One day I'm gonna be king."
The creator and active cheerleader of the Brendan Morrison lobby.
What more can I say?
I’m w/ you. Love BMo but voted Belanger 2C. I don’t look at it as a demotion or reflecting in any way poorly on #9. Just think the possibilities of BMo @ 3d w/ Beast/Fehr could be money come playoff time. Chimera just needs to bust out the scoring…he’s soooo close.
I like the Washington Capitals.
Their line has been solid these past few games, and, while JP mentioned they were against two non-contending teams, I thought the chemistry was still good.
And psst…we have more room in the B-Mo lobby…just sayin’.
Everyone wants to kill the king. But the prince, he just sails along telling all the ladies, "One day I'm gonna be king."
The creator and active cheerleader of the Brendan Morrison lobby.
ALI FAROKHMANESH!
What more can I say?
by Steck It Out on Mar 19, 2010 12:20 PM EDT up reply actions
I love the way this line has been playing too, but I fear that it may be broken up by the return of OV.
Don't vorry. Zat's just ze power of ze arts!
Flash and Fehr have played well together in the past. To me, this combination even made Nylander seem like a slightly less incompetent player towards the end of last season
Don't vorry. Zat's just ze power of ze arts!
They were also two-thirds of the “F Street” line with Feds.
Game-Over Green? Canada-Over Carlson!
by Scott in Shaw on Mar 19, 2010 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions
I voted Belanger
After the trade deadline, my reaction was that Belanger and Morrison were both guys that should be 2.5 on the depth chart at C. Neither is the ideal answer at 2C, in other words.
And really, I’d switch them back and forth between 2C and 3C depending on how they’re playing and matchups.
But that wasn’t an option in the poll, so in the end I’m going with the guy that is playing a touch better, and that’s Belanger.
Flash should not see any more time at C, imo. I’m not a believer.
"You want to start being part of the Rink? Fine, but more’s expected of you than John/Jane Cap Fan. Carry the cause of informed discussion to the unwashed masses and don’t crap in the yards of other SBN sites if you decide to go over there. They’re passionate about their teams too, no need to troll elsewhere and/or be a sore winner." --BP
That's exactly how I see it.
After the trade deadline, my reaction was that Belanger and Morrison were both guys that should be 2.5 on the depth chart at C. Neither is the ideal answer at 2C, in other words.
And really, I’d switch them back and forth between 2C and 3C depending on how they’re playing and matchups.
"By far the worst performers on the team are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins
I believe it’ll be situational. Belanger will get the nod against teams with a stronger 2C, but if for some reason our offensive doesn’t click at a high enough rate, Flash will be slotted in. As much as I love BMo and think that he is one of the more talented guys on the team, I don’t see him making a huge splash in the playoffs when everyone is amped up and playing the game with a little more intensity and physicality. Plus, Gabby has a boner for Flash.
I imagine TOI with Semin/Brooks will shake out:
75% Belanger
20-25% Flash
0-5% Bmo
by Bushwood Bushwhacker on Mar 19, 2010 12:40 PM EDT reply actions
Agree with slight variation
I too think it will be situational, but I mean depending on the matchups. Belanger against teams with a great offensives 2C, Flash against the rest. Playing Flash against Malkin would be unimaginably ugly.
Agree completely. The hope is that you minimize the time that Flash would get overpowered or taken advantage of, but realize he’s the best offensive choice (even winning 44% of his draws), as DMG said, and it’s going to be correct to slot him in on occasion.
by Bushwood Bushwhacker on Mar 19, 2010 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions
For now? BMo. He’s a slick passer, he has good hands, decent speed, and I think his skill set meshes best with that second line. He’s much better at faceoffs than Flash is, and he is significantly more defensively responsible than Flash as well. He’s also got better offensive instincts than Belanger, which fits a lot better on a line with players like Semin and Laich than it does with Fehr and Chimera.
In fact, if Belanger weren’t having a career year right now (he has already set a career high in terms of points, tied his career high in terms of assists, and is close to tying his career high in terms of goals) we wouldn’t be having this conversation. Morrison’s body is obviously in decline, but he still has the skill set necessary to mesh with other skilled players like Semin and Laich. Belanger doesn’t.
IMHO, I think the Flash-as-center thing could work out in the future – even as soon as next season – if he has the opportunity during the summer and training camp to really work on his faceoff skills and watch some game film in order to improve his play away from the puck. But he’s not there now, and we can’t be in a position where he’s learning in the playoffs.
GUTEN TAAAAAAAAAAAAG!
I've got BMo
Morrison also has an advantage over Fleischmann as a natural, defensively sound center who can wins faceoffs, and over Belanger as a guy with better hands and offensive instincts who has had an entire season to get just to playing with his Capitals teammates
thats why i would give the edge to BMo. but i agree w/ fat_daddyo that i would expect these two or three guys to switch around given matchups and performance.
Just trying to capture the spirit of the thing...
I’d be happy with either BMo or Belanger. Flash is not an ideal center for the playoffs. I’d like to see him work on faceoffs and defensive play and give him another shot at it next season. I’m leaning toward Belanger for 2C simply because of the effectiveness of Chimera—BMo—Fehr.
"Now wait a minute. This is just purely a social call. You know, just two adults getting a stew on, man."
by The Ghost of Bebop on Mar 19, 2010 1:04 PM EDT reply actions
Long Time / First Time
I’ve been lurking quite a bit recently (you may have gotten a rec from me and not even realized it), and I have decided that as reading this blog and its comments makes me both a) laugh and b) more well-informed about a team I love than I could ever hope to be that I will just go ahead and jump on in and hope it works out.
I voted Morrison, if only for his playoff experience. Both on paper and to my eyes, Belanger and BMo both seem (as someone mentioned above) like 2.5Cs, so I trust BMo better in the playoffs if only because he’s been there before. I don’t like Flash’s horrific FO%; he’s a winger.
The only thing that would have me questioning this decision is the recent play of that 25/9/16 line, but that, I think, is going to get broken up anyway with the return of Ovechkin. I know many think BB wouldn’t sit Flash for the playoffs, and I’m not sure I would either. I’m not ready to give up on him just yet (as a wing).
by SmallZ827 on Mar 19, 2010 1:07 PM EDT reply actions 4 recs
Welcome – thanks for Crashing the party!
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
Thanks! I know liking DMB is not cool anymore, but I will defend my love of them if I must…in the OT Thread.
Don’t worry about it….just seems to be a Jimi Thing among people here.
I want to be your honey but I got a sweet tooth
Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Mar 19, 2010 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m with you, but yeah – we could discuss further if we Say Goodbye to this thread.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
Something something something something Ants Marching.
Seriously, though.. in the prism of having four lines, Flash or Beast seem to get squeezed out of the top three. With Steckel and Bradley, though, couldn’t you have five or six lines mixed up, based on situational needs? Something like, Red Square for a center-ice draw, but swap Beast for Flash if it was in the offensive zone, or Fehr and Chimera splitting time on the fourth line with Steckel and Bradley/Walker, etc? Playing certain guys more or less based on the number of minutes clocked on the PP and/or PK?
Winterion Game Studios
Visit us online at : http://winterion.com
Who’s Beast? Chimmer?
What’s Red Square?
Probably in the glossary, right? I’m gonna have to pin that somewhere to make it more readily accessible…
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
Good point.
Beast would be Chimera, yes. Red Square would be 16-9-25, and the glossary would be awesome.
Winterion Game Studios
Visit us online at : http://winterion.com
Also plays on the “Red” and “Russian” themes. Just like Chimera, it works on multiple lines levels.
Winterion Game Studios
Visit us online at : http://winterion.com
Yes, thank you. I get jokes.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
by J.P. on Mar 19, 2010 3:09 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
D’ohboy’s blood is boiling right now.
My ability to post is only surpassed by my ability to pinch pennies.
For crying out loud…we get it.
"You want to start being part of the Rink? Fine, but more’s expected of you than John/Jane Cap Fan. Carry the cause of informed discussion to the unwashed masses and don’t crap in the yards of other SBN sites if you decide to go over there. They’re passionate about their teams too, no need to troll elsewhere and/or be a sore winner." --BP
Going back to BMo’s smooth between the legs goal from earlier it made me really think that he has the composure that the Caps need in the playoffs. He scored one of the most pretty goals I’ve seen this year and he just casually skated it off as a regular goal, barely cracking a smile.
I know intangibles like that can be rarely depended upon but I really think he is the guy you can count on when it’s a game 4, 5, 6 or 7.
President and sole member of the Erskine lobby.
He’s definitely come up big in the playoffs before, too.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
If we’re in a triple-OT against Calgary this year some serious hell-freezing-over has happened. But here’s to hoping he can do the same against, say, the Devils.
No, I hope he does it against Calgary.
Of all our iniquities ignorance may be the worst
by Killer_Carlson on Mar 19, 2010 2:16 PM EDT up reply actions
I hadn’t even thought about it in terms of the Western Conference playoff race. No Wings + Caps SCF appearance? Sign me up.
Usually I sign in cursive, but I can't find the button for it.
I don’t even care about the implications for the Western playoff race. If Bmo scores a 3OT winner against Calgary it means that he just won the Caps a game in the Cup finals.
Of all our iniquities ignorance may be the worst
by Killer_Carlson on Mar 19, 2010 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions
I feel the same way. Coming here during the media frenzy after that Chicago game was calming. Good rational discussion backed up with valid video and statistical evidence even during that lively 1000+ thread (I read most of it—whew) kept this fan sane.
I voted Belanger because I liked the Chimera/BMo/Fehr line. However, I have no idea what Bruce will do since even he was impressed enough with it after the Panther’s game that he singled each one of them out for praise. Fehr must have died and gone to heaven!
by capsyoungguns on Mar 19, 2010 5:13 PM EDT up reply actions
If you think about it, This is such a great problem to have, most teams are trying to figure out their second line if not their top line. we’re sittin’ here arguing who should be on the third and fourth!
Once the playoffs come around I’d like to see this
8-19-22
28-18-21
25-9-16
14-39-10
I really did not want to put flash on the fourth line, but what else are you gonna do with so much depth? I’m still kicking myself trying to find walker a spot
~~~ R0cK D@ R3D ~~~
by Chaz-Capapalooza on Mar 19, 2010 1:33 PM EDT reply actions
P.S.
Anyone figure out the defensive pairings BB is going with? What’s gonna happen when we get juice back?
~~~ R0cK D@ R3D ~~~
by Chaz-Capapalooza on Mar 19, 2010 1:35 PM EDT up reply actions
52-55
77-3
74-26
Looks fairly cemented in place. If Juice makes it back this season, he becomes the 7th man. Sloan is playing well enough right now that he can be the 7th man against a team with speed and Erskine a very definite 7th man against slower teams.
President and sole member of the Erskine lobby.
Maybe it’s just me, but I wouldn’t hate those pairs with Juice subbed in for Poti. Don’t think Poti’s going to ride the pine all postseason, but I’m not totally high on #3 at the moment, especially after yesterday’s game.
Usually I sign in cursive, but I can't find the button for it.
I only THINK about putting in 4 if we’re playing the Rangers, and that would only be to keep Avery from being “Avery”
I want to be your honey but I got a sweet tooth
Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Mar 19, 2010 1:46 PM EDT up reply actions
/Chip Chipperson’d
I want to be your honey but I got a sweet tooth
Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Mar 19, 2010 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions
55 – 52
77 – 3
23- 26
press box
74- 4-89
tough call cause 74 has played well, but do you pull out poti? maybe given his propensity to take OT penalties and direct pucks into his own net in OT when he’s not in the box. this assumes 23 makes it back, which is a stretch. also depends upon matchups…
did i forget somone?
Just trying to capture the spirit of the thing...
by dcsportsfan1 on Mar 19, 2010 1:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Disagree – 74 is absolutely one of the Caps’ top six blueliners right now. If you’re pulling anyone from the lineup, it’s 26, and I don’t think that makes sense right now either. If Juice gets healthy, he’s in the press box to start.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
Agreed. Especially with 23 coming off double hernia surgery.
74 hasn’t done anything to cost himself the job. He’s been great.
I want to be your honey but I got a sweet tooth
Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Mar 19, 2010 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions
74 is a top 6 blue liner for sure next season
~~~ R0cK D@ R3D ~~~
by Chaz-Capapalooza on Mar 19, 2010 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions
he’s also 20 years old. not that he plays like it but still. like i said, tough call and probably not one that will need to be made barring additional injuries.
Just trying to capture the spirit of the thing...
by dcsportsfan1 on Mar 19, 2010 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Right. Juice is an insurance policy if someone goes down in the playoffs. His presence means you don’t have to give regular minutes to Sloan or Erskine.
That’s it.
"You want to start being part of the Rink? Fine, but more’s expected of you than John/Jane Cap Fan. Carry the cause of informed discussion to the unwashed masses and don’t crap in the yards of other SBN sites if you decide to go over there. They’re passionate about their teams too, no need to troll elsewhere and/or be a sore winner." --BP
Green – Shultz
Poti – Jurcina
Corvo – Carlson
Sloan and ShaMo in the press box, BUT I don’t think Juice will play this season so:
Green Shultz
Poti Corvo
ShaMo Carlson
Nothing.
If only If only
we had Poti-Juice, that first pairing would lead us to the promised land
~~~ R0cK D@ R3D ~~~
by Chaz-Capapalooza on Mar 19, 2010 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions
If only. Would create a what we already have as a good offensive line, a great defensive line, and then a balanced line with corvo and carlson.
Nothing.
yup, 74 may be the most responsible defenseman on the roster. Put him next to Corvo and you’ve got THE best third line duo in the league. Not to mention the best +/- tandum in Green and Schultz and the Heavy hitters in Juice and Poti
~~~ R0cK D@ R3D ~~~
by Chaz-Capapalooza on Mar 19, 2010 2:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Nasty would like to have a word with you. However, both of them are gangly bastards and there are times when I have to double-take that it is, indeed, Carlson playing amazing defense by being in the right place and reading the plays correctly.
I love that he is picking up defensive instincts so quickly. I almost want to see him out on the PK just for franschetti and giggles to see how he’d react. I’d love for him to be great on the PK so we can get Poti the hell off of it even more.
President and sole member of the Erskine lobby.
if juice comes back, i could see him subbing in for morrison on occasion, if bruce feels the big body is needed. not saying i think thats a good idea, but i could see it happening
Midwest caps fan living vicariously through blogs.
yeah, but mo is playing very well right now. right now being the operative words….
Just trying to capture the spirit of the thing...
by dcsportsfan1 on Mar 19, 2010 1:46 PM EDT up reply actions
26 has been playing strong since the trade for Chimera. It’s been long enough that if he had a chance to snap out of it, he hasn’t.
President and sole member of the Erskine lobby.
You mean Corvo?
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Mar 20, 2010 12:03 AM EDT up reply actions
You cannot put Flash on the 4th line. That line is out there against the opposition’s first or second line, and their job is to keep pucks out of the net and hopefully pinned below the other guy’s goal line for 30-60 seconds. Flash helps zero in that regard. Zero.
Flash has one thing that he’s sort of good at, and that’s offensive hockey. Scoring, skating, handling the puck, etc. That’s what his claim to an NHL job rests on. Do you want to bump Laich or AO from their spot for Flash? If not, the logical place for Flash is the press box.
"You want to start being part of the Rink? Fine, but more’s expected of you than John/Jane Cap Fan. Carry the cause of informed discussion to the unwashed masses and don’t crap in the yards of other SBN sites if you decide to go over there. They’re passionate about their teams too, no need to troll elsewhere and/or be a sore winner." --BP
I don’t think our 4th is against others top lines very often. In fact, it seems like they match up against other 4th lines more often than not.
I just checked the qualcomp stats on behindthenet.ca, that feeling seems to be true (if I am reading the stats right). Steckel (-.014), Bradley (-.038), and Gordon (-.083) all have bottom 10 QUALCOMP ratings amongst Caps who have played at least 30 games.
Having said that, I don’t think he’s a fit for the 4th line, nor do I think BB would put him there. I’m in agreement that he needs to be considered for the pressbox many nights in the playoffs, but again I don’t have much faith that BB will actually do that.
I went with BMo, because he’s a more dangerous scorer and a better offensive player than Belanger when he’s skating. It looks like his wheels are back, too; I can’t think of a guy besides Grampa Donuts who needed a break in February more than BMo.
Driving under the influence of hockey since godknow's when.
Flash. The way the team is built, it’s O all the way. (And I can’t believe I’m saying that, because until this year I thought they needed to trade him away because of BB’s unfounded love for the guy.)
But would anyone vote for Flash at home, Belanger on the road? This would mean Flash’s problems in the face off dot would be muted, and would also allow for a bit more defensive responsibility on the road, where theoretically you would expect the other team to have an advantage offensively.
Belanger
With Semin and Flash/Laich on his wing, the #2C doesn’t need to do a hell of a lot offensively, they just need to win faceoffs, join the cycle without turning the puck over, and get the hell out of the way. Semin loves to have the puck on his stick, so puck possession ability isn’t crucial. Belanger is better on faceoffs and better defensively (at least by reputation). He fits the needs for that line.
I think BMo is the better passer of the two and has slightly better hands. For some reason, though, he hasn’t been able to buy a goal for much of the year. Unless he suddenly regains his scoring touch (which I find doubtful), I’d prefer to keep him centering Fehr and Flash/Chimera, and let Belanger be the #2 guy.
Still, I don’t think this is written in stone and I could certainly see this changing as events warrant.
There's a fine line between arrogance and ignorance and only I manage to erase that line.
Further to one of your main points, Semin is more likely to be able to score without the help of a playmaking center, whereas Fehr often puts himself in great position for a pass rather than creating on his own and thus does need a playmaker.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
Which is why Fehr should be on the top line when it’s time to put ol’ Knuble out to pasture…
I want to be your honey but I got a sweet tooth
Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Mar 19, 2010 1:55 PM EDT up reply actions
He has just enough speed to play on the top line and he has a Crosbian nose for the net. He always ends up in the right places and always manages to sneak a shot through. His qualcomp ain’t great, but the types of goals he scores means he is going to be a menace once he can skate with a guy like Ovechkin and Backstrom night in, night out.
President and sole member of the Erskine lobby.
He’ll pot 40.
And everyone will wonder where he came from.
I want to be your honey but I got a sweet tooth
Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Mar 19, 2010 2:01 PM EDT up reply actions
No one will see him coming
Oh Uncle Paul!
I want to be your honey but I got a sweet tooth
Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Mar 19, 2010 2:05 PM EDT up reply actions
O&A reference? Nice!
"I have a lot to offer this team down the stretch with my experience, having been a main guy on a team before and knowing what it's like and how you have to prepare. When you're a young guy, you always think there's next year. You're naive. You think that window of opportunity is going to be there every year. But it's not." -BMO
by morrisonhotshot on Mar 19, 2010 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions
and I don’t know why that didn’t reply to you. Sorry bout that.
"I have a lot to offer this team down the stretch with my experience, having been a main guy on a team before and knowing what it's like and how you have to prepare. When you're a young guy, you always think there's next year. You're naive. You think that window of opportunity is going to be there every year. But it's not." -BMO
by morrisonhotshot on Mar 19, 2010 4:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah I am, sorry if I missed something.
"I have a lot to offer this team down the stretch with my experience, having been a main guy on a team before and knowing what it's like and how you have to prepare. When you're a young guy, you always think there's next year. You're naive. You think that window of opportunity is going to be there every year. But it's not." -BMO
by morrisonhotshot on Mar 19, 2010 4:52 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m a member of this camp, especially considering that he’s got 20 with 16 games left in his healthiest season. With better teammates and more ice time, assuming health, It’d be tough to see him not hit 35-40 goals.
by DrinkingPartner on Mar 19, 2010 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions
I think 40 is probably a bit north of his ceiling…and as impressed as I have been with him (finally tasted the kool-aid and it’s quite tasty) but I still don’t think he has the speed.
Agreed, 40 is a bit high for Fehrsie, even if he gets more TOI. He has the shot, but not the stickhandling needed to create opportunities.
You had me at no problem.
I think with 20 minutes of ice time with Backstrom and Ovie he has every chance to put up 30 year in, year out and with a good year, 35 ain’t out of the question.
President and sole member of the Erskine lobby.
I dunno – of the 20 goals he’s scored this year, just three have come on the PP. If he gets a big bump in PP TOI, he could see a big spike in goal total, even without skating on the first line at ES. If he gets that job? Sky’s the limit – just ask Chris Clark.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
To further that – right now Fehr’s scoring more than Kovalchuk, Marleau, Stamkos, and Parise at even strength. Now, obviously it’s not fair to assume he keeps up that rate with their ice time but if he starts getting top line (or even top six) minutes at even strength and pots a Knuble-ian 12-15 on the powerplay, it’s not outside the realm of possibility.
by David M. Getz on Mar 19, 2010 2:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Refresh my memory, have we seen Fehr on Semin’s line ever? I wonder how that would work out.
"Why don't you smegging well smeg off, you annoying little smeggy smegging smegger!"
Both righties, wouldn’t be terrible though. 16 crashin, 28 shootin..
by Bushwood Bushwhacker on Mar 19, 2010 5:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Semin has skated less than 1% of his ES shifts with Fehr. Fehr has skated just over 1% of his ES shifts with Semin. Neither has an ES point with the other on the ice.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
the C on Semin’s line also needs to be defensive minded to be able to help clean up the inevitable mess that Semin creates (wow. that sounded dirty. sorry). backchecking will be critical.
Just trying to capture the spirit of the thing...
by dcsportsfan1 on Mar 19, 2010 1:55 PM EDT up reply actions
I see both Belanger and BMo as defensively responsible enough to play with Semin, who’s no slouch defensively himself (when he’s on his game and backchecking, etc).
Driving under the influence of hockey since godknow's when.
agreed. both can do the job. good arguement against flash being that guy.
Just trying to capture the spirit of the thing...
by dcsportsfan1 on Mar 19, 2010 2:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Yep. And Laich – contrary to popular misconception – isn’t a great defensive forward at 5-on-5.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
club scarlet would like to have a word with you about that comment.
Just trying to capture the spirit of the thing...
by dcsportsfan1 on Mar 19, 2010 2:03 PM EDT up reply actions
“Forwards play defense? We’re confused.”
My ability to post is only surpassed by my ability to pinch pennies.
by jordanDC on Mar 19, 2010 2:04 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
more about using the words “laich” and “isnt great” in the same sentence that will not sit will with the hockey ’n heels crowd.
Just trying to capture the spirit of the thing...
by dcsportsfan1 on Mar 19, 2010 2:06 PM EDT up reply actions
I know, I was just making a terrible, sexist joke.
My ability to post is only surpassed by my ability to pinch pennies.
I don’t think it’s necessarily sexist. The members of Club Scarlet do not represent female Caps fans nor women as a whole. They deserve to be ridiculed, whatever their gender.
Usually I sign in cursive, but I can't find the button for it.
Thanks for the vote of confidence.
My ability to post is only surpassed by my ability to pinch pennies.
Well, it made me laugh.
"Camaraderie, that's what the Washington Capitals are all about."
by CapitalCentre on Mar 19, 2010 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Not sure I agree with that. They may not have the depth of knowledge or desire to acquire it that others have, but why begrudge them their way of enjoying the team and the game?
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
I’ve sent many a new female hockey fan to the Club Scarlet site because it’s a wee bit less intimidating place for them to learn about the game. They get comfortable, they branch out to here or another team site and puck daddy, but for a primer, they really do enjoy club Scarlet. It’s also a semi-useful tool for getting them hooked on the Caps if they’re just getting into hockey and don’t have a team allegiance.
Kung-fu Rink Rabbit
Donate to the Rink Pledge Drive for SAVES FOR KIDS! Ain’t nothing [wrong] about giving $5 so a stranger’s premature baby can have the time on a respirator they need.~Gould Old Days
Right. Every fan starts somewhere. Who cares where, if they end up in the right place?
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
I can see this. It just always felt like Club Scarlet was billing itself as a destination, not a jumping-off point to “real” fandom, if that makes any sense.
Usually I sign in cursive, but I can't find the button for it.
It’s just a marketing thing, really.
My ability to post is only surpassed by my ability to pinch pennies.
(It’s also way off-topic, so we should take it to the OTOT if we want to discuss it further.)
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
I should perhaps amend my statement to ridicule Club Scarlet itself, and not its members. It’s their “Hey, Ladies!” advertisement that irks me. As if ladies had all been sitting around waiting for a way to enjoy the game and this was the ONLY way to get them involved. It just feels like Club Scarlet is turning a blind eye to the fact that there were plenty of competent female Caps fans to begin with. I don’t know, maybe it’s done more to bring people to this team than I give it credit for.
Usually I sign in cursive, but I can't find the button for it.
Forgot that any comment featuring “Laich” and “conception” triggers the Club Scarlet alert.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
by J.P. on Mar 19, 2010 2:06 PM EDT up reply actions 6 recs
more like “triggers mass pregnancy in the greater DC area”
Kung-fu Rink Rabbit
Donate to the Rink Pledge Drive for SAVES FOR KIDS! Ain’t nothing [wrong] about giving $5 so a stranger’s premature baby can have the time on a respirator they need.~Gould Old Days
He practices his skating in the offseason so he can run away from all the women chasing him for child support.
My ability to post is only surpassed by my ability to pinch pennies.
hopefully he covers his tracks with women better than he covers his skating tracks.
way OT i know…
Just trying to capture the spirit of the thing...
by dcsportsfan1 on Mar 19, 2010 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions
They all “sync up” when he comes around
I want to be your honey but I got a sweet tooth
Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Mar 19, 2010 2:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Doesn’t seem to be a win situaiton.
Flash – best offensive option, weakest defense. He’s had some really great games, points wise, as a center but doesn’t have the hang of faceoffs(generally something you don’t just do for a few games and become instantly phenomenal at). But putting him in center forces Belanger and Morrison down so where does that leave Steckel…?
Belanger – Has speed an that seems to be it. I haven’t been too impressed with his faceoffs and that might just be getting accustomed but I don’t think hes a no2 center. Does everyone really think he can fly with Semin and Laich? No way. But it still remains who goes there. Flash is too defensively inempt(which I don’t think is all that big of a problem HOWEVER his faceoffs are) and the 3rd line has been buzzing with Morrison as 3C.
Bmo has been productful on the season just not recently and he certainly has been slumping. Perhaps he is coming back around after the last few games and if he is he can certainly swing with 28/21. But as I said earlier he is finding some good chemistry on the 3rd line.
Flash or BMo
Nothing.
Not to pick on you specifically, since I’ve seen others make this point, but I think you’re overestimating the offensive production you’ll get out of Flash as the #2C.
20 of his 47 points have come on the PP (which by my reckoning is a higher percentage than any other Caps forward). Given the presence of Backstrom and Flash’s faceoff ineptitude, you’re unlikely to see him play center on the power play – he’ll only really fill the #2C role 5v5. At that point, his offensive contributions trail both BMo 32 pts and Belanger 29 (much of which came playing for the offensively-challenged Wild).
Bottom line: Flash’s offensive production 5v5 should’nt be much better than that of the other two, and he won’t play #2C on the PP.
There's a fine line between arrogance and ignorance and only I manage to erase that line.
hmmm
I’ll see if I can pull up all of the games he’s centered to compare specifically. He didn’t play a whole lot of games though as center or atleast as many as Bmo or Belanger so I’m thinking his per game avgs are higher. BUT I do recognize that’s also a smaller sample to pool from
Nothing.
The other problem is that he happened to be the #2C during the streak. Read into that what you will, but from his performance as a whole, I’d say that’s correlation and not causation.
There's a fine line between arrogance and ignorance and only I manage to erase that line.
I was about to post that it seems like Flash and Sasha are pretty similar in production. I think if you dug hard enough you’d see there are times when hardly any record exists of Flash on the ice, but other times he’s putting up points by the handful. Definitely seemed to be a case of the latter during the streak. Maybe it’s skewing our impression of his offensive output.
President and sole member of the Erskine lobby.
Except that Sasha has put up almost as many points at even strength as Flash has altogether, albeit with slightly less than 3 min/game more of ice time.
Strange factoid: Flash gets more SH TOI/game than Semin. Weird.
There's a fine line between arrogance and ignorance and only I manage to erase that line.
And has a better GAON/60 than the two big PK forwards (better QUALCOMP and QUALTEAM noted). Evason’s got to go.
"I know I was the best CIA agent the CIA ever had, but I thought I told you honkies from the CIA that Black Dynamite was out of the game!"
by Bald Pollack on Mar 19, 2010 2:16 PM EDT up reply actions
In 19 games I have confirmed Flash centered on including The Streak(which is where a majority of them come from) He averaged .3 goals per game but 1.8 points per game in 16:46 average ToI while doing 44.6% Faceoff average
He seemed to be hit or miss with FO. In general it seemed games he did little offensively he had a better game in FO%.
Morrison for the season: in 69 games he averages .17 goals per game, and .58 points per game while being 51% FO average.
Belanger for the season in 67 games averages: .21 goals per game, .57 points per game and is also 51% in the FO(I’m unsure if thats just the 7 games he has as a Cap or the entire season)
this to note however is that Flash has a about 1/3rd of the games played at center, this did not filter PP time, he played both 2nd line and 3rd line center, and a majority of Flash’s game at center have come during The Streak(the caps 14 game winning streak)
Nothing.
Correction
umm i read the wrong line on Flash from my excel….
He goes as follows: 0.16 goals per game, and 0.95 points per game. still in 16:46 avg ToI and going 44.65 FO%
Nothing.
Does everyone really think he can fly with Semin and Laich? No way.
If I had to guess which of those three is the fastest skater, I’d guess Belanger. I think he had keep up in that regard.
by David M. Getz on Mar 19, 2010 2:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Relative +/-
The raw +/- in your stat line is pretty unfair to belanger given he hasn’t played w/ the massively “plus” Caps all season like the other guys. behindthenet’s relative +/-:
Belanger +0.63
Bmo +0.32
Flash – 0.96
Flash is worse than any other top 9 fwd or top 6 defender. The only “regulars” worse than Flash are Brads and Sloan.
Belanger is in great company in the top 10, basically the same as Knoobs and Fehr.
I say Belanger gets most of the starts at 2C — all starts at 2C vs. Malkin — and Flash gets some against opponents with lesser offensive talent at 2C.
by CarlosLA on Mar 19, 2010 2:29 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Belanger. I think this is an easy choice, actually. The chemistry just works better. You just need to get the puck to Semin, who is most comfortable free-lancing a bit and Brooksie is there to clean up the trash. I see Bela’s role as faceoff and puck possession specialist and we don’t need a ton of points from him on Sasha’s line. BMo likes to set up shop behind the net and wait for Flash or Chimera to get open, or get it back to the point, and that is fine by me.
It's sure nice to discuss hockey again...
Although it’s odd to note how few people seemingly care about something that actually affects the team going forward.
There's a fine line between arrogance and ignorance and only I manage to erase that line.
by D'ohboy on Mar 19, 2010 2:45 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I think people care, they just may not have anything to add to what has been a pretty comprehensive discussion. And if there’s one thing we want to encourage, it’s people not commenting when they have nothing to add to the discussion.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
by J.P. on Mar 19, 2010 2:47 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
in this particular discussion, I think I have a lot more to learn from it than add to it. And I bet there’s a lot of people that feel the same way. Flash, no, get him on a wing somewhere, but I don’t feel like I can really back a decision between Belanger and Morrison that is informed. My vote would be no more valid than someone flipping a coin between the two.
Kung-fu Rink Rabbit
Donate to the Rink Pledge Drive for SAVES FOR KIDS! Ain’t nothing [wrong] about giving $5 so a stranger’s premature baby can have the time on a respirator they need.~Gould Old Days
That’s pretty much I feel. What Belanger and Bmo bring to the table is pretty even. And I actually think that’s a good thing. Maybe we stop thinking about it in terms of 2nd and 3rd lines and more like 2a/2b line situation.
by Gin and Tonic on Mar 19, 2010 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions
*how I feel
Serves me right for typing while on a teleconference at work.
by Gin and Tonic on Mar 19, 2010 2:57 PM EDT up reply actions
That’s a lot of the discussion, though, in that it seems more like 3a/3b. Bmo on a roll is clearly the 2C, but he’s not and hasn’t been on a roll since the beginning of the season. We don’t have, and there doesn’t appear to be, an optimal solution for this situation, unless Bmo really gets his shit together because he’s got the highest overall ceiling of the potential 2Cs.
by DrinkingPartner on Mar 19, 2010 4:01 PM EDT up reply actions
3a/3b? Not sure I follow. Unless you mean just at center, in that we don’t have a true 2C but 2 great 3Cs that on a good day can be a 2C.
by Gin and Tonic on Mar 19, 2010 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Neither good enough for 2C? I think this is the problem with our looking at this…we just expect too much. BMo’s numbers are very comparable to any 2C in the league, except Malkin.
I would imagine just about any team in the league, minus Pittsburgh, would probably want BMo at 2C, or at least would feel that switching what they have with BMo would be a lateral trade rather than a downgrade. I think we sometimes forget, especially after Semin undresses several defensemen on the same shift, that no team has a 2nd line that puts up the same numbers as the top line. The fact that we expect this is just darned greedy of us.
by HateOffSeason on Mar 19, 2010 7:46 PM EDT up reply actions
I have the same feeling, that I’m learning more from reading the discussion. But here goes: I don’t have a handle on which one is a better playmaker, but both Chimera and Fehr have said how great BMo has been to creating a play for them. I took that to mean that the three had great chemistry and a good sense of where the other would be as the play developed. Also both Laich and Semin being such veterans of Bruce’s system perhaps could help Belanger adjust his game more quickly. Chimera fits right in but he is still pretty new.
by capsyoungguns on Mar 19, 2010 5:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Almost 500 votes. People do care.
My opinion is that it’s pretty much a wash between Belanger and Bmo. I think it more a question of linemates and who Semin is clicking with on the 2nd line (which could change depending on which Semin decides to play on a given night). 25-9-16 have been great and gives us a third scoring line. Flash needs to go back to wing or the press box.
by Gin and Tonic on Mar 19, 2010 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Compared to the amount of blood that was spilled essentially finding different ways of saying that Colin Campbell is an ignorant asshat, 500 votes seems pretty minimal. I really don’t want to get OT here, so I’ll bring this back to earth by saying that if anything, the last two games of the Ovie suspension have confirmed for me that we simply cannot rely upon Flash as a top-6 forward – he just floated around uselessly the last two games. Part of me really wanted to see BB toy with how Fehr would look there, but again, that’s slightly OT.
Speaking of another topic (Chris Bourque) that generated a lot of discussion that some people thought was unwarranted, part of my dislike of Flash was exactly this tendency of his to completely and utterly disappear for long stretches of games. Part of the reason that I was so frustrated to see Bourque get let go was that he isn’t the kind of player to just float and disappear like that, at least not at the AHL level. He certainly doesn’t have the skill Flash does, but he also doesn’t make me want to punch him in his Ginger face when he just plain checks out.
There's a fine line between arrogance and ignorance and only I manage to erase that line.
I still think there are a lot more people who can call Campbell an asshat than can find a significant difference between Belanger and Morrison. And it also might be that it’s a nice Friday afternoon.
But I agree with you that Flash-as-Top-6 is probably over (though not sure he’s done on the third line, I think 16-9-14 or 16-18-14 can work).
Usually I sign in cursive, but I can't find the button for it.
Is your hair red? Like Flash and B Mo and even Semin. (Even though Semin’s hair looks like a combination of brown, red, and dark blond.)
Rocking the Red since 1975
Oh, FFS…
"You want to start being part of the Rink? Fine, but more’s expected of you than John/Jane Cap Fan. Carry the cause of informed discussion to the unwashed masses and don’t crap in the yards of other SBN sites if you decide to go over there. They’re passionate about their teams too, no need to troll elsewhere and/or be a sore winner." --BP
by fat_daddyo on Mar 19, 2010 5:56 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Flash would have been better served at 2W for those two games while Semin went up to 1. Flash’s niche is 2RW, which is unfortunate because of another world class winger we happen to employ. He’s nowhere near as effective anywhere else in the lineup, to my eyes.
by DrinkingPartner on Mar 19, 2010 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions
I chose BMO, but its certainly not a confident vote. Then again if there was true confidence in the 2C position DMG’s post wouldn’t exist. To me BMo brings the most to the table from an all around game perspective.
One item that interests me related to this discussion – Does anyone know what Semin’s numbers are broken out by which center he’s played with this year?
"You ever use smelling salts, every time you type a bad blog?" Brooks Laich
The first paragraph is an interesting point. Often debates about the Caps are spurred on by an embarrassment of riches, but this time I think that what we might have on our hands is promoting one of our two 3Cs rather than demoting one of our 2Cs, if that makes any sense.
Usually I sign in cursive, but I can't find the button for it.
On the second point:
Laich-Flash-Semin has actually been the third-most point-producing line the team has put out at ES. Semin has 22.54% of his ES points playing with Laich and Flash.
He’s also, of course, skated more frequently with Flash and Laich, but he’s scored at a higher rate with those two, with BMo at C coming in second and Belanger (obviously tiny sample) coming in third.
Basically, he’s skated about 178% as often with Laich and Flash as with Laich and Mo and has 266% as many points. He’s skated 419% as often with Laich and Flash as with Laich and Belanger and has 800% as many points.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
Would, then, Semin’s apparent uptick in production with Flash outweigh our misgivings of having him at center? Or is it just that Semin’s games with Belanger coincided with his inability to return from Vancouver after the Olympics?
Usually I sign in cursive, but I can't find the button for it.
First off, thanks for the numbers JP.
As to Semin’s numbers I’m not sure with this specific team that we need great numbers from him, so I’d prefer a better defensive option at center. I just wanted to see if there was even room for debate on the issue and it appears there is.
"You ever use smelling salts, every time you type a bad blog?" Brooks Laich
On the first question, no, I don’t think so. We’re not talking about huge differences in the raw numbers here – a difference of three ES points (i.e. three more with BMo, two more with BMo and one less with Flash, etc.) and BMo and Flash numbers are right in line, for example. And the Belanger sample is tiny.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
Vote goes to BMO
I’ve seen about 90% of BMO’s games since his inception into the league in ‘97, and through it I’ve picked up on his tendencies and habits. Seen his up and down swings and his injuries. He’s a very intelligent player and he’s never played on a team as capable as this one. He knows this, and despite the less than stellar middle of the season he’s had, these two games past are glimpses into what’s to come. I believe he would be a good fit at second line center for the following reasons:
Mo is a compliment to Semin because he kinda balances the two out. Semin plays erratically, but succ
by morrisonhotshot on Mar 19, 2010 3:08 PM EDT reply actions
Voted or BMo b/c Belanger doesn’t seem to know how to play with Semin. Purely anecdotal, but I’ve seen him completely out of position to receive a sweet set-up from Semin on more than one occasion. Obviously that will happen with everyone on occasion, but I just don’t think Belanger has the offensive instincts necessary to play with the skill on the 2nd line here.
Continuation, sorry
Semin plays erratically, but successful a lot of the time. Mo’s style is more conservative, and he knows how to gage whether or not a play would be dangerous as he is more defensively minded than I believe Belanger is. As good as the third line has been as of late, it took them a while to get to that point (even BMO said it the other day), and I believe Belanger would be as much of a compliment to Chimmer and Fehr as BMO has been. Semin and Mo have good chemistry together, and he’s a proven center down the playoff stretch. Clutch in key situations, and a silent leader. He can give the boys a push and they’d be smart to listen because he’s been there before, more than anyone else.
Like I said earlier he knows situations like this don’t come up all the time, I KNOW he will be great as the weeks go on. He wants it bad. I’m sure there’s other things to say but I’m at work and lost my train of thought.
by morrisonhotshot on Mar 19, 2010 3:21 PM EDT reply actions
I’m sure there’s other things to say but I’m at work and lost my train of thought.
Perhaps you could regain it by adding a snappy profile picture to your avatar.
I voted BMo with an eye towards the here and now, but there’s a nagging suspicion in me that says they let him walk at the end of the year and re-sign Belanger for that spot next year.
"I know I was the best CIA agent the CIA ever had, but I thought I told you honkies from the CIA that Black Dynamite was out of the game!"
by Bald Pollack on Mar 19, 2010 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Haha, will that help my thought process? I’ll look into it.
I completely understand where you’re coming from with the whole where is he going to sign come next year. This is the third year now where he’s placed with nowhere to go when the season comes to an end, and unlike Vancouver and Dallas before, this team actually will be in the playoffs. I’ve never seen him this excited about any other team or opportunity before, so this will be a real test for him to show the management what he’s made of. And I don’t think the previous slump he was in had anything to do with him being a little older, I think as I’m sure he’d back up that it’s just an excuse. I’m sure he feels pressure from Knuble, being his buddy and being quite a few years older and producing more than him. This stretch I think you’ll see a new man, much probably like the one you saw earlier this year.
Bottom line, he WANTS to stay in Washington and time is a tickin……he knows what needs to be done to get the job done.
by morrisonhotshot on Mar 19, 2010 4:27 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Good to hear. All things being equal, I’d like to have him back for his D play down the middle as well.
And a rec for the dressed up profile.
"I know I was the best CIA agent the CIA ever had, but I thought I told you honkies from the CIA that Black Dynamite was out of the game!"
by Bald Pollack on Mar 19, 2010 6:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Too bad we’re not GMGM. Hopefully Mo will play so well he won’t leave the guy with a choice but to sign him. Fingers crossed.
"I have a lot to offer this team down the stretch with my experience, having been a main guy on a team before and knowing what it's like and how you have to prepare. When you're a young guy, you always think there's next year. You're naive. You think that window of opportunity is going to be there every year. But it's not." -BMO
by morrisonhotshot on Mar 20, 2010 12:01 AM EDT up reply actions
If I had confidence that the past couple games are a sign that Bmo’s production is back to early season form, I’d say put him on the second line. Unfortunately, I am not confident, and given how he has played with Fehr and Chimera put Belanger on the second line.
Just say no to Flash at C. In fact, come playoff time Flash may just be the most expendable W without a Q in their name.
Of all our iniquities ignorance may be the worst
Far too many votes for BMo, IMO.
Rink posters can often be influenced heavily by short term memory… BMo is great, but if you think Flash can’t physically handle the job, then there’s no way BMo can. And the ~5% FO edge probably doesn’t make up the difference. I think the Depth chart is:
Belanger
Flash
BMo
by Bushwood Bushwhacker on Mar 19, 2010 3:44 PM EDT reply actions
Recent memory would actually probably be to BMo’s detriment, not his support. Unless you are truly accusing Rink posters of being unable to remember past the two most recent games. Many of the people supporting BMo were citing his career playoff performance, which is hardly short-term memory.
Usually I sign in cursive, but I can't find the button for it.
by SmallZ827 on Mar 19, 2010 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
To add to this, I am thinking defense more than offense going into the playoffs. This team doesn’t have trouble scoring. I want a guy who is responsible up the middle and unfortunately Flash is not that. Belanger hasn’t wowed me in either zone with his play.
"You ever use smelling salts, every time you type a bad blog?" Brooks Laich
Flash isn’t responsible in the middle, or down the sides, or up front, or in the back. . . or anywhere, really.
There's a fine line between arrogance and ignorance and only I manage to erase that line.
He does play good defense in the locker room however.
"You ever use smelling salts, every time you type a bad blog?" Brooks Laich
Flash = Cockblocker.
There's a fine line between arrogance and ignorance and only I manage to erase that line.
by D'ohboy on Mar 19, 2010 4:02 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Rink posters can often be influenced heavily by short term memory…
I think you’d probably receive a better reception here if you just kept these thoughts to yourself. It’s one thing to make a comment about someone in particular, but it’s another altogether to make an outright quasi-negative blanket statement about the entire community here.
Furthermore, you could have likewise made the argument that “Rink posters can often be influenced heavily by first impressions,” since BMo came out of the gate like a house on fire.
Also, I don’t think Flash’s problems are in any way physical – his problems are entirely mental. I think putting BMo on 3C minimizes the effects of his minimal stature by putting out with two big, physical wingers. He could almost become an ersatz Kris Draper.
There's a fine line between arrogance and ignorance and only I manage to erase that line.
by D'ohboy on Mar 19, 2010 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions 10 recs
This is what I was getting at. It’s much more useful to give your opinion and back it up and contribute to the debate than it is to attack others for having had a differing opinion.
Usually I sign in cursive, but I can't find the button for it.
by SmallZ827 on Mar 19, 2010 3:53 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Green for a reason, I guess… that came off pretty harshly, and I didn’t mean it that way. I apologize. It just seems like people were very anti BMo while he wasn’t scoring, and now that he has had a couple of legitimately impressive games, people are ready for him to center our second line in the playoffs… after we’ve, for 1-2 months, been clamoring that we need a a legit 2C.
I just don’t totally see getting from point A to point B, aside from being heavily influenced by the last few games.
And I don’t think Flash’s problems are mental, I would argue they are more related to chemistry and style of play. I would love to see some comparisons of how well he has performed while playing between Sasha and Brooks compared to other lines.
I just quickly summed his stats during the last 12 games of the 14 game streak, which I understand is a bit crazy, but it’s when I seem to remember him first being slotted into that line. I would love to have better data gathering to this end, if anyone knows how to do it.
Anyway, he was 1G 10A 11P +6 in 12 games. Just from that, and from my perception of watching him play on that line, he seems much more at home there than anywhere else.
I still think Belanger is the best choice all things considered, but there is a case to be made for Fleishmann too. If anyone has statistical insight above and beyond my meager attempt, that would be awesome.
by Bushwood Bushwhacker on Mar 19, 2010 5:02 PM EDT up reply actions
I voted for Belanger, but I don’t see the calls for a legit 2C from the past 2 months as incompatible with choosing Bmo in this poll. The Caps didn’t pick up a legit 2C, so choosing Bmo isn’t necessarily saying that he’s a great option, just that he is better than the other options. I think reasonable minds can differ on that point, as Flash (points production aside) is not a good C and Belanger has not proven to have the same offensive potential that Bmo had early in the season.
Of all our iniquities ignorance may be the worst
by Killer_Carlson on Mar 19, 2010 5:36 PM EDT up reply actions
I apologize. It just seems like people were very anti BMo while he wasn’t scoring, and now that he has had a couple of legitimately impressive games, people are ready for him to center our second line in the playoffs
Really? Because I think at the top of the thread several BMo fans, myself included, were saying he should be 3C going forward.
I like the Washington Capitals.
My vote would be a lot easier if you could tell me which BMo we were going to have in the playoffs. The guy from the first couple of months who was so good that we all wanted to resign him on the spot or the old man of December and January who couldn’t make a play or buy a goal. From what I’ve seen so far, it looks like the BMo we have now is somewhere in between. No one with the Caps has ever given a reason for the dropoff, though I have to feel conditioning had a lot to do with it. From the last couple of games, he looks like the Cap who’s benefited the most from the Olympic break, so I’m guessing he’s catching a second wind. Given all that, I’d give Brendan first dubs on the 2C spot but if looks like he’s faltering, Belanger gets moved up. That’s the beauty of depth.
My vote would be a lot easier if you could tell me which BMo we were going to have in the playoffs. The guy from the first couple of months who was so good that we all wanted to resign him on the spot or the old man of December and January who couldn’t make a play or buy a goal.
That’s been the heart of the issue for me. My guess is the latter, given how he’s slowed down as the season’s gone on and how physically demanding the playoffs are, I guess the latter. That’s the biggest reason I went with Belanger.
by David M. Getz on Mar 19, 2010 3:53 PM EDT up reply actions
I’ll admit up front that I didn’t know much about Belanger before we acquired him, but is there any reason to believe he’ll be much sturdier throughout the playoff grind than Morrison?
Usually I sign in cursive, but I can't find the button for it.
He’s a little younger, but the big thing for me is that Morrison seems to have really fallen off a cliff both in terms of raw numbers and to my eyes.
by David M. Getz on Mar 19, 2010 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m hoping this week’s games are heralding a return of early-season Morrison, but I think your eyes may have him pegged.
Usually I sign in cursive, but I can't find the button for it.
Belanger’s been sturdier recently, but for his first five seasons, he only had one where he played more than 65 games. He has been a little fragile during his career. He’s also been just fantastic in the playoffs – 2-4-6 and a -9 in 30 career playoff games.
GUTEN TAAAAAAAAAAAAG!
My money is on Morrison. Experience, talent, and defense, plus faceoffs.
Following the Caps at A Capital Offense.
by Marshall Pirate on Mar 19, 2010 4:14 PM EDT reply actions
I’m not sure if this is completely relevant to this post, so forgive me if I’m OT J.P., but Hooks Orpik told me that Max Talbot said the Caps picked up Belanger specifically to match up against Crosby? Anyone buying this? Does this change your take on the 2C/3C battle?
Killer_Carlson and Steckel Me Elmo are like brothers to me. And when I say brothers I don't mean like actual brothers. I mean it like how black people use it, which is more meaningful, I think.
by Fehr and Balanced on Mar 19, 2010 4:15 PM EDT reply actions
I’d find that somewhat doubtful, since BB is loath to match lines…
There's a fine line between arrogance and ignorance and only I manage to erase that line.
and when he does bother to match against the Crosby line, Bruce seems quite content to throw Steckel out there (and I think the numbers back up Bruce’s confidence in Steckel’s ability to win faceoffs against Sid)
Kung-fu Rink Rabbit
Donate to the Rink Pledge Drive for SAVES FOR KIDS! Ain’t nothing [wrong] about giving $5 so a stranger’s premature baby can have the time on a respirator they need.~Gould Old Days
I doubt it. As D’ohboy said, the Caps don’t really match lines. Plus, getting someone to match up with one particular guy on one particular team you may or may not play in the playoffs seems like the kind of inefficient strategy the Caps try to avoid. Then throw in that they were apparently looking at Modano first, and I just don’t see it.
by David M. Getz on Mar 19, 2010 4:26 PM EDT up reply actions
That and it’s Max freaking Talbot. Since when is his opinion worth anything when analyzing Caps moves?
Of all our iniquities ignorance may be the worst
by Killer_Carlson on Mar 19, 2010 5:38 PM EDT up reply actions
That and it’s Max freaking Talbot. Since when is his opinion worth anything
when analyzing Caps moves?
Usually I sign in cursive, but I can't find the button for it.
by SmallZ827 on Mar 19, 2010 5:53 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Max Talbot said the Caps picked up Belanger specifically to match up against Crosby
By any chance did Talbot look into the future and say how that worked out?
by b.orr4 on Mar 19, 2010 4:32 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Only if you say it all French-like “Maxime Tal-boh”…
OT done now.
Agree with RedBirdie above. I also read somewhere (here?) that Crosby didn’t score a goal in the first six games of that series at ES while Steckel was on the ice. He at least seems to be able to contain Sid a little.
Line-matching could work out for the Caps though, going power versus power or similar. I wouldn’t mind seeing Backstrom vs Crosby, Semin vs Malkin, 3rd line vs Staal, and 4th line versus their fourth. Seems to me like the Caps break even or win in 3 of those situations if not four.
Cидни Kросби: Александр Oвечкин, он твой папа теперь
Capitals Coming: for Capitals fans no more intelligent than myself
by red army line on Mar 20, 2010 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Has anyone compared the numbers of
Laich/BMo/Semin
vs.
Laich/Flash/Semin
How would you even get those? It’s hard to put Belanger in the middle of that comparison, but he’s a different type of player anyways i guess. He’s going to be the goto defensive choice.
JP provided the numbers a little ways up in this thread ( in response to CP2Devil).
Usually I sign in cursive, but I can't find the button for it.
Oh I see. But it doesnt show the scoring rates for the lines, just totals.
What would be aweseom would be comparisons of the two lines with +/- /60, corsi, etc, for the entire line. The totals don’t really mean much, considering they’ve played different amounts of time with each other.
Who knows if anyone reads this far down. . .
I think Belanger would be the best pick for the 2nd line. With Semin and Laich flanking the monsieur, his play will not heavily influence the line itself. I think it is a solid bet, that he will have a good defensive showing most games, and win a good amount of face-offs. That’s what that 2nd line needs, and serves a specific purpose. The variable here is his offensive capacity. Again, i think its a good bet that he can make the passes that Semin needs to carry it himself into the offensive zone, and do his own little “take on your entire team thing”. The variable rests in whether or not he will become the playmaker and dish out passes to Laich and Semin, holding the door open for them, as they enter the bakery. He’s capable of it, we’ve seen it happen; if it happens in the Play-Offs that line scores alot of goals, maintains possession, and doesn’t screw the pooch in the defensive zone. If it doesn’t happen, that line is just more defensively responsible.
This would leave the Chimera/BMo/Fehr line together, which has begun to look amazing, a line that wins games.
The biggest question, is the choice between Chimera or Flash at the 3LW position
Flash is one step away from scoring a ton, and i mean a ton, of goals. Most of the lay-ups he missed were against Legace, Turco, Peters, Vokoun all making some incredible saves. Once he starts putting them in, he’ll put some great numbers up for his line. His play complements Fehr’s pretty well also. Remember, the numbers Flash put up when he was at wing in November, he was carrying the team for a few games with Ovie’s suspension/injury. Chimera has been amazing with that 3rd line, but i think he has also been great with the 4th. Chimera has the capacity, to be on the 3rd line, and that is the best use of his abilities I think; however, i think the propensity for Flash to just turn it on and start playing with his spark again, knowing Chimera will still be consistant on the 4th is enough of a reason to keep Flash on the 3rd.
Also, there are 4, best of 7 series. . .BB can change up the lines once he is in the play-offs. If something just [Ferrigno]s the bed, the lines will get changed.
I think the biggest question now is wh
Bah-Ram-Ewe, Ovechkin will wreck you. Fear the Furious Fleece!
Kinda wish Missy would chime in on this coversation. With BMo out in Vancouver, and when not there been out west, and Belanger with most of his time spent recently out west, she has seen a lot more of these guys than we have.
She may have a better idea about Belanger, but at this stage in his career I don’t think that anything that BMo did while in Vancouver has much bearing on the current debate.
Of all our iniquities ignorance may be the worst
by Killer_Carlson on Mar 19, 2010 9:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Good thing Ovi’s back. Otherwise, we ’d all be calling for the first line to get tweaked, as a result of the Carolina debacle. If Morrison had still been hot (and Ovi were still out), he would probably be moved to center the line between Flash and Knuble (which worked well earlier) and Backstrom would center the lie between Laich and Semin.
Rocking the Red since 1975
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Southeast Standings
| GP | W | L | OTL | PT | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
Washington
|
82 | 54 | 15 | 13 | 121 |
|
Atlanta
|
82 | 35 | 34 | 13 | 83 |
|
Carolina
|
82 | 35 | 37 | 10 | 80 |
|
Tampa Bay
|
82 | 34 | 36 | 12 | 80 |
|
Florida
|
82 | 32 | 37 | 13 | 77 |
(updated 4.12.2010 at 9:21 AM EDT)
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