"[W]hen it comes to the success of this Capitals team in this coming postseason, Nicklas Backstrom is the team’s most indispensible player."
4 months ago
J.P.
293 comments
0 recs |
Email
PrintComments
Buy or sell Corey’s assertion?
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
Buy. I would even open up a PayPal account to do so.
For every action, there is an equal and opposite criticism.
by Rather Bengt on Mar 17, 2010 1:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Slight buy. The MVP is the MVP, but the last few weeks have really tipped the scales a bit.
by bilspacecadet on Mar 17, 2010 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions
On the team’s top line, where the top goal scorer needs a great playmaker and the meat and potatoes forward is parked in front of the net, Nick is directing this ballet.
I said it before and I’ll say it again; Nicky takes the Conn Smythe this year.
by S h a g g y on Mar 17, 2010 1:13 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Buy. Ovechkin’s the better player, more dominant player, the guy who’s more likely to take over a game, the gulf between Backstrom and the other centers is huge.
If Ovechkin goes down, the Capitals top four wingers are Semin, Fleischmann, Knuble, and Laich or Fehr. The top six are those five and Chimera. That’s a group of wings I can imagine winning the Cup. If Backstrom’s out, the first and second line centers are Belanger and Morrison (though not necessarily in that order), the third line center’s Steckel and the fourth line is Gordon. Three of your four centers are playing a line higher than they should be. I can’t see a team with that set-up down the middle winning the Cup.
by David M. Getz on Mar 17, 2010 2:04 PM EDT up reply actions 12 recs
Couldn’t have said it better myself.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
Congrats for being the first person to actually make a decent argument towards this crazy idea that Ovechkin is not the MVP of this team. Not having depth at center is very legit, but the contribution that OV brings to the table is quantifiable and greater than any skater in the league. He is our MVP now, and he will be in the playoffs. Not only that, since he’s been named captain our record is silly. He is our leader. On the ice, off the ice, in the locker room, everywhere.
Nicky is not the MVP. People are lemmings agreeing with Corey.
But good points, DMG. Unfortunately everyone is wrong.
by Bushwood Bushwhacker on Mar 17, 2010 2:09 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
There is a difference between “most valuable” and “most indispensible,” though, IMO.
Blog: I Rock the Red
Twitter: @IRockTheRed
E-mail: irockthered {at} gmail {dot} com
Sure, there definitely is. It’s the marginal value of Ovie or Backstrom over their replacement, and whoever replaces the replacement, and so on. And strictly by the numbers this is actually really close, maybe even a wash. As DMG said, we have wingers but no so much down the middle.
But the leadership, the grit, the energy… these are things that are worth their weight in gold in the postseason. And I don’t see it coming from anyone in the lineup except #8.
by Bushwood Bushwhacker on Mar 17, 2010 2:20 PM EDT up reply actions
That’s nonsense. We have a team full of leaders. Full of grit and determination too. A team full of win. Ovi allows them to focus all that awesomesauce.
Now helping to keep an eye on all things Gr8 at Alex Ovetjkin.
You may feel comfortable saying that now… but in the second season, when strength of will and determination matter more than it ever does… not having Ovie would be devastating. Who’s going to lead the physical charge? Brooks? I’m sure the Kings would be shaking in their boots.
by Bushwood Bushwhacker on Mar 17, 2010 2:34 PM EDT up reply actions
I hate the willpower and determination argument. It’s impossible to refute and it is a self fulfilling prophecy – if you need them to succeed, and you succeed, you had them, ipso facto. This is, incidentally, the mirror image to the argument that Crosby is a better leader than AO because he has a cup.
"You want to start being part of the Rink? Fine, but more’s expected of you than John/Jane Cap Fan. Carry the cause of informed discussion to the unwashed masses and don’t crap in the yards of other SBN sites if you decide to go over there. They’re passionate about their teams too, no need to troll elsewhere and/or be a sore winner." --BP
by fat_daddyo on Mar 17, 2010 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Right. And would one say that those traits – strength, will and determination – disappeared in Vancouver?
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
Bingo. Willpower and determination, along with your team playing better than the other guys, will win you a lot of games.
"You want to start being part of the Rink? Fine, but more’s expected of you than John/Jane Cap Fan. Carry the cause of informed discussion to the unwashed masses and don’t crap in the yards of other SBN sites if you decide to go over there. They’re passionate about their teams too, no need to troll elsewhere and/or be a sore winner." --BP
Right up there with scoring more goals than your opponent.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
Congrats for being the first person to actually make a decent argument towards this crazy idea that Ovechkin is not the MVP of this team.
D posted that at 2:04.
Prior to that, gotsparkly wrote at 1:10:
I’ll buy. We’re not as deep at center as we are in some other positions.
I wrote at 1:13:
But the step down from Ovi to Semin is much, much less than from Nick to BMo/Belanger/whomever, no?
It’s all related to the same argument – the Caps lack depth down the middle and therefore Nick is less-easily replaced, or more indispensible.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
by J.P. on Mar 17, 2010 2:34 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Yeah, I think sparkly gets credit for being the first one to make that point. She just didn’t get as long-winded as I did.
by David M. Getz on Mar 17, 2010 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions
DMG put multiple sentences together, so I gave him credit. And it’s not just the step down from the 1C or 1RW to the 2nd liners, it’s who then replaces those second liners, and so on. This means that Ovie is still probably more valuable than Nicky on paper, and clearly more valuable not on paper.
The mob mentality is just pretty remarkable.
by Bushwood Bushwhacker on Mar 17, 2010 2:43 PM EDT up reply actions
You like to argue simply for the sake of arguing, don’t you?
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
That may be true to some small extent… but what about what I just said makes you think that?
Just now, everyone hops on board some random opinion from Corey who we all seem to give too much credit to, agreeing blindly to the fact the best player in the world, the most dominant player statistically since he broke into the league, won’t be the most valuable to our team this postseason, and it makes me think… are people actually thinking with their brains right now or I am the only crazy one? So I am going to call people lemmings. Sorry.
What would be really interesting is if someone mocked up the lines with and without Ovie and Lars, and added up the GVTs, or whatever you want to use to quantify it.
Everyone saying “Ya Backstrom is a center and we have crap centers” is true to an extent, but means very little on it’s own, and certainly doesn’t get us any closer to an answer to the question that this entire post seeks.
by Bushwood Bushwhacker on Mar 17, 2010 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions
No, it’s cool. We get it. You’re your own man. You think for yourself – no rational argument that is embraced by the masses will satisfy your thirst for individuality. Those Nirvana records you had? Tossed in the trash once the band got popular, despite nary a note on the albums changing. And so on.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
by J.P. on Mar 17, 2010 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions 8 recs
(What a “Real Men of Genius” ad this would make…)
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
by J.P. on Mar 17, 2010 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
love those
/ot’d
On the Forecheck: a blog that's more productive than a Predator power play!
Follow me on Twitter
Now Cycling like the Sedins
by Chris Burton on Mar 17, 2010 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions
So rec’d
"You want to start being part of the Rink? Fine, but more’s expected of you than John/Jane Cap Fan. Carry the cause of informed discussion to the unwashed masses and don’t crap in the yards of other SBN sites if you decide to go over there. They’re passionate about their teams too, no need to troll elsewhere and/or be a sore winner." --BP
I think you are missing the point, JP. I’m not a contrarian for no reason, it just riles me up when everyone is saying something without thinking about it. I enjoy reading actual content. Not 100 people saying Backstrom is the most indispensable player with nothing backing it up except “We have bad centers.”
by Bushwood Bushwhacker on Mar 17, 2010 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions
it just riles me up when everyone is saying something without thinking about it.
To assert that people aren’t thinking is ridiculous and awfully presumptuous.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
by J.P. on Mar 17, 2010 3:09 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
When 100 people in a row claim Lars is the most whatever player to the team in the postseason, people are not thinking long enough about it. Just like people weren’t thinking long enough about Ovie getting suspended. When you get a bunch of people who agree on something on an internet board without alot of facts being listed, chances are people aren’t thinking.
by Bushwood Bushwhacker on Mar 17, 2010 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Yawn. I’m done. I’ll let you have the last word because, well, it’s what you crave, so have at it – floor’s all yours.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
Did you miss the 1000+ comments where people disagreed?
Killer_Carlson and Steckel Me Elmo are like brothers to me. And when I say brothers I don't mean like actual brothers. I mean it like how black people use it, which is more meaningful, I think.
by Fehr and Balanced on Mar 17, 2010 5:31 PM EDT up reply actions
He did not say most valuable.
He said most indispensable.
Indispensable
–adjective
1.
absolutely necessary, essential, or requisite: an indispensable member of the staff.
Valuable
-adjective
3.
of considerable use, service, or importance: valuable information.These two words are not interchangable.
Blog: I Rock the Red
Twitter: @IRockTheRed
E-mail: irockthered {at} gmail {dot} com
Those definitions are nice, but indispensability, in this case, is measured in value. As in, he is the most indispensable because he is the most valuable. They are the same.
by Bushwood Bushwhacker on Mar 17, 2010 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions
indispensability, in this case, is measured in value
No, no it’s not. Did you even read the article you’re commenting on? You didn’t have to get very far – just the first two paragraphs (bolded to make it super easy for you):
Alex Ovechkin is not only the most valuable player on the Washington Capitals, but he’s having the best season of his career of could become the third player in NHL history to capture back-to-back-to-back league MVP awards.
That said, when it comes to the success of this Capitals team in this coming postseason, Nicklas Backstrom is the team’s most indispensible player.
There’s a distinction drawn, and it’s one, by the way, with which Bruce Boudreau agrees. Is Bruce wrong, too?
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
by J.P. on Mar 17, 2010 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Thanks, J.P.
You beat me to it.
Also, I was going to say: the team would need multiple guys to step in and do what Ovi does – that is what makes him valuable. BUT how many guys on the team can step in and do what Backstrom does, day in, day out?
We have a couple of games where he left early with a migraine. Someone could pull stats from those, I bet.
But not me; I have to run now. Got a dinner date with my daughter tonight. :-)
Blog: I Rock the Red
Twitter: @IRockTheRed
E-mail: irockthered {at} gmail {dot} com
Yes, Bruce is wrong. You are wrong, and everyone else is wrong.
When you say a player is indispensable, why exactly is he indispensable? Because he is good looking? Or because he makes good pasta before the game? He is indispensable, assumedly, because he helps your team wins at X rate when he is on the roster. He becomes “indispensable” when X is the higher than any other players’ on the team.
We are talking about winning. Who gives the Caps the best chance to win a game or series? Indispensable is a word that we are latching onto for no good reason…
by Bushwood Bushwhacker on Mar 17, 2010 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions
He becomes "indispensable" when X is the higher than any other players’ on the team.
He becomes indispensable when his contributions exceed that contributions of the guy(s) who would replace him in the line up. The marginal value is of more importance than total value, because the marginal value becomes the total value in terms of what’s lost.
Take baseball as an example, because the VORP statistic is about as close to true value as you’re going to get. If Player A’s total VORP is 40.0 and Player B’s VORP is 35.0, the former makes a greater contribution to winning as a whole. But if Player A’s backup has a VORP of 30.0 and Player B’s backup’s Vorp is 0.0, Player B is more indispensable because his loss represents a loss of 30.0 rather than just 5.0.
Indispensable is a word that we are latching onto for no good reason…
It’s not “no good reason”, it’s because it was the word used by Cory in the original post.
by David M. Getz on Mar 17, 2010 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Here goes...
Ovechkin gives any team the best chance to win in a series. But when you look at strengths and weaknesses of teams, a guy who would be a good addition to one team would be a crucial addition to another because they plug a hole that is so weak otherwise, it represents an exploitable weakness.
To give you an example, look at the Blackhawks. If they had a choice between adding Sidney Crosby to their team for the season or Thomas Vokoun, they would probably choose Vokoun because he plugs a hole that is so weak for them it represents a weakness whereas Sidney, while overall better than Vokoun (I consider him better because between the two, most would choose to build a team Sidney), doesn’t provide much the team doesn’t already have in abundance.
In the case of the Capitals, if you took both Ovechkin and Backstrom out of the team, you still have the ability to stock all 4 lines with appropriately skilled wingers. But as someone stated previously, you would be stuck without a legitimate center for the top two lines.
Backstrom is more indispensable because losing him makes such a big hole at the center position that suddenly it becomes the Cap’s Achilles heel more than anything anyone’s said about our “soft” defense or “questionable” goaltending.
by Fallen 13 on Mar 17, 2010 4:02 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Stop taking rec’reational drugs and start thinking for yourself, maaaaaaaaan.
/MVP MVP MVP MVP!
Killer_Carlson and Steckel Me Elmo are like brothers to me. And when I say brothers I don't mean like actual brothers. I mean it like how black people use it, which is more meaningful, I think.
by Fehr and Balanced on Mar 17, 2010 5:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Everyone saying "Ya Backstrom is a center and we have crap centers" is true to an extent, but means very little on it’s own
I disgaree, but even then, using it in the context of “but the team has very good wingers beyond Ovechkin” does give it meaning.
by David M. Getz on Mar 17, 2010 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Just because Bushwood suggested it (and I’m only doing the top line):
Combined Total GVT of our usual top line of 8 19 22: 58.2
Combined Total GVT of a top line without Nick using 8 14 22: 47.0 (-11.2)
Combined Total GVT of a top line without AO using 28 19 22: 48.5 (-9.7)
So losing Nick does hurt the top line more when you add up the GVTs (their combined Total GVT is 1.5 lower without Backstrom). And in case anyone is wondering, I used Flash at the top center because I wasn’t sure how to combine the GVT numbers from the MIN and WAS games for Belanger & I think Flash’s would still be a higher number anyway. By the definition of indispensible, Backstrom is moreso than AO in terms of the Caps top line.
I think this is a good way to look at it. And I doubt Flash’s GVT would be so high if he’d been a center all year. This may actually understate how much the Caps would lose if they lose Backstrom.
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Mar 17, 2010 4:36 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m convinced. I retract my earlier “sell”.
"You want to start being part of the Rink? Fine, but more’s expected of you than John/Jane Cap Fan. Carry the cause of informed discussion to the unwashed masses and don’t crap in the yards of other SBN sites if you decide to go over there. They’re passionate about their teams too, no need to troll elsewhere and/or be a sore winner." --BP
Nicky is not the MVP. People are lemmings agreeing with Corey.
Just so we’re clear, the concept that Nick Backstrom, who most hockey fans or Washingtonians probably wouldn’t recognize in the street, might be more important to his team’s success than the reigning MVP is what makes us all lemmings, right? That’s what you’re saying?
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Mar 17, 2010 3:30 PM EDT up reply actions 6 recs
But there is this:
No other team has a Mike Green, either. Like Paul Coffey, Green’s numbers are forward-esque: he only has 3 fewer assists than Lars while playing in 5 fewer games. And Flash, while not quite possessing Jordan Staal’s puck control/PK skills, has only one fewer point while playing in 11 fewer games.
It’s true the Caps lack the firepower of a Crosby/Malkin one/two punch. the Pens would be devastated with the loss of either one as well.
But the Caps depth is amazing and while losing Backs would likely doom our chances, it would not be hopeless either.
I like how you are looking at the whole picture in this situation as well Shaggy. I could even buy Green as team’s most indispensable guy, similar to Baks, in terms of what’s behind him on defense. However, with the addition of Corvo, from an offensive standpoint I don’t think the Caps lose as much as they would from losing Baks.
"You ever use smelling salts, every time you type a bad blog?" Brooks Laich
Pens are Geno-free tonight against the Paul Martined-up Devs. Let’s see how devastated they are.
Now helping to keep an eye on all things Gr8 at Alex Ovetjkin.
Caps have scored more goals, given up fewer, have a better PP and PK and a better win% in games without Alex than with him.
At the same time, they haven’t scored a single goal or won a single game without Nick in the lineup.
Checkmate, amigo.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
by J.P. on Mar 17, 2010 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Doesn’t he have yet to miss a game?
Hanlon's Razor: Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.
by gotsparkly on Mar 17, 2010 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Walked right into that one, GS
"You want to start being part of the Rink? Fine, but more’s expected of you than John/Jane Cap Fan. Carry the cause of informed discussion to the unwashed masses and don’t crap in the yards of other SBN sites if you decide to go over there. They’re passionate about their teams too, no need to troll elsewhere and/or be a sore winner." --BP
Alex? I thought Jeff Schultz was the trendy pick.
by David M. Getz on Mar 17, 2010 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Sarge is trending down after that awful stat line last night. Only 0G 0A +1 in a 7-3 win. Tsk, tsk.
GO FLYERZ
"If you want money go to the bank, if you want bread go to the bakery if you want goals go to the net." - #21
by snakegriffin on Mar 17, 2010 1:22 PM EDT up reply actions
I want to get to the heart of the PP matter. WTF? I think it’s because they simplify without Alex and just get pucks to the net. You’d think they’d be able to still do that with him in the lineup, with the added benefit of being able to put together two solid PP units. If nothing else, our PP without Alex should demonstrate to BB that we can score without him and maybe it’s better to use PP2 more often.
Killer_Carlson and Steckel Me Elmo are like brothers to me. And when I say brothers I don't mean like actual brothers. I mean it like how black people use it, which is more meaningful, I think.
by Fehr and Balanced on Mar 17, 2010 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Agree with you on PP2 out of general principles.
Think the 9 games without AO this year is too small a sample size to draw too many conclusions; and also that 4 of them being against the Panthers is annother hitch. The Caps have pwned FLA this year, which is one of those semi-flukey kinda deals.
"You want to start being part of the Rink? Fine, but more’s expected of you than John/Jane Cap Fan. Carry the cause of informed discussion to the unwashed masses and don’t crap in the yards of other SBN sites if you decide to go over there. They’re passionate about their teams too, no need to troll elsewhere and/or be a sore winner." --BP
Games Alex has missed, with that team’s NHL PK rank:
@NJ – L 16
@FLA – W 25
FLA – W 25
NYI – W 28
MIN – W 14
@NJ – L 16
FLA – W 25
@PHI – W 17
@FLA – W 25
Not exactly a tough road to plow for their PP during that time….
An interesting pull – amazed to see Jersey in the bottom half of penalty killing teams. That really doesn’t fit the narrative, does it?
Winterion Game Studios
Visit us online at : http://winterion.com
Depends on whose narrative you follow. If you follow the “NJD is nothing without the Scotts” narrative, then it fits fine.
Killer_Carlson and Steckel Me Elmo are like brothers to me. And when I say brothers I don't mean like actual brothers. I mean it like how black people use it, which is more meaningful, I think.
by Fehr and Balanced on Mar 17, 2010 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Not exactly a tough road to plow
If you’re plowing the road, you need to turn the tractor around. You went too far.
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Mar 17, 2010 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
By way of background, this post.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
Without Alex, it seems all five guys get involved in the PP. When he’s on the ice, everything gets funneled through him making it easier to defend. Of course, they’re leading the league with Alex running the PP, so I’m kind of rebutting my own argument.
Boudreau: “They try harder because the game’s No. 1 player is not there,” he said. “It’s like not relying on big brother. When he’s there’s and it’s a close game you’re always saying, ’Let’s keep it close game, Alex is going to score and tie it.’ But when he’s not there, they know they have to take it upon themselves to do it.”
That’s the biggest contributor to the first point.
Not enough of a sample size on the last point? Nicky hardly ever misses a game. Swedish Machine never breaks (unlike Ikea furniture).
by Stephen Pepper on Mar 17, 2010 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions
I wonder if Nicky enjoys the Swedish meatballs they’ve got at Ikea
Bah-Ram-Ewe, Ovechkin will wreck you. Fear the Furious Fleece!
At the same time, they haven’t scored a single goal or won a single game without Nick in the lineup.
On January 2, at 2:13 in the 2nd period of the game in LA, Mike Green scored a PPG. 51 game-seconds later, Nick Backstrom left the game with a migrane.
The Caps did not score again in that game.
Coincidence?
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Mar 17, 2010 3:25 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I get a headache when Mike Green scores, too.
Go Flyers!
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
The headache comes after, the testicle explosion comes just before.
Killer_Carlson and Steckel Me Elmo are like brothers to me. And when I say brothers I don't mean like actual brothers. I mean it like how black people use it, which is more meaningful, I think.
by Fehr and Balanced on Mar 17, 2010 5:38 PM EDT up reply actions
My left nut was very happy to find out Mike Green didn’t make Team Canada!~Patrick Thorensen.
Kung-fu Rink Rabbit
Donate to the Rink Pledge Drive for SAVES FOR KIDS! Ain’t nothing [wrong] about giving $5 so a stranger’s premature baby can have the time on a respirator they need.~Gould Old Days
Absolutely, I buy it.
Backstrom plays under all situations – EV, PP, PK. He’s effective in all three situations. He may not be the top guy for faceoffs among Capitals, but he’s brilliant otherwise.
Absolutely, and I’m with RB: I’d open up a PayPal account to do it, too.
Blog: I Rock the Red
Twitter: @IRockTheRed
E-mail: irockthered {at} gmail {dot} com
Sell. Backstrom’s value to the team is a lot closer to Ovi’s than probably many have realized, but Ovi is still the goal scorer, the leader, the playmaker, and he brings the energy.
But the step down from Ovi to Semin is much, much less than from Nick to BMo/Belanger/whomever, no?
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
The Caps will not be playing the Panthers – or teams of their calibre – in the playoffs. Good on BMo for a nice game last night, but let’s consider the competition a bit.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
But Bmo had been having trouble against similar competition before last night. Let’s hope this is the corner he turns.
by DrinkingPartner on Mar 17, 2010 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Hmmm…interesting question. Semin scores, and plays D when he feels like it, but AO’s drive and energy really pushes the team along. So as long a drop as it is from 19 to the other centers, AO is a long way ahead of Semin in terms of value to the team. Commensurately ahead? In the same ballpark, I would say.
And, scoring wings are much easier to replace than playmaking centers who play good D, possess the puck and don’t miss games.
Dunno. Slight sell? I think they’re both indispensable to the Caps being an elite team.
"You want to start being part of the Rink? Fine, but more’s expected of you than John/Jane Cap Fan. Carry the cause of informed discussion to the unwashed masses and don’t crap in the yards of other SBN sites if you decide to go over there. They’re passionate about their teams too, no need to troll elsewhere and/or be a sore winner." --BP
“Dunno. Slight sell? I think they’re both indispensable to the Caps being an elite team.”
Very true. Without either one, I no longer think we’re a cup contender.
Looking at the article, Boudreau’s points are that Nick PKs, distributes, plays defense, and controls the tempo of the attack – all things that are impossible to replace at the level he does them. AO scores, which the Caps have other guys that can do.
I don’t think it’s that simple, though. AO’s presence in the lineup pushes all the rest of the guys into richer territory. I don’t think you can vote against the power hitter in the middle of the lineup, even when you have a great leadoff guy, if you don’t mind mixing metaphors.
"You want to start being part of the Rink? Fine, but more’s expected of you than John/Jane Cap Fan. Carry the cause of informed discussion to the unwashed masses and don’t crap in the yards of other SBN sites if you decide to go over there. They’re passionate about their teams too, no need to troll elsewhere and/or be a sore winner." --BP
scoring wings are much easier to replace than playmaking centers who play good D
The Penguins would like a word with you.
by DrinkingPartner on Mar 17, 2010 1:59 PM EDT up reply actions
replace. They never had scoring wingers to start with!
Kung-fu Rink Rabbit
Donate to the Rink Pledge Drive for SAVES FOR KIDS! Ain’t nothing [wrong] about giving $5 so a stranger’s premature baby can have the time on a respirator they need.~Gould Old Days
Yeah, I dunno what’s going on with those guys.
"You want to start being part of the Rink? Fine, but more’s expected of you than John/Jane Cap Fan. Carry the cause of informed discussion to the unwashed masses and don’t crap in the yards of other SBN sites if you decide to go over there. They’re passionate about their teams too, no need to troll elsewhere and/or be a sore winner." --BP
Excuse me, but an Ovechkin-Fleischmann-Knuble line would be the bee’s knees.
Signed,
Bruce
If you've read this far...seek help.
by ThePeerless on Mar 17, 2010 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Agree with most of this. Maybe I’m too literal on the playmaker tab, but I’d guess that AO gets that label in part because of his proclivity to shoot in pantloads, but Nick spreads wealth among a variety of sources and methods which makes me feel he’s as much (if not more) the playmaker that AO is.
I guess (in part) that’s why Corey’s getting a quoit from Oates is well-played; he helped form a great pairing with Hull and Neely, yet they get the pub (rightfully so, they lit the lamp)
"I know I was the best CIA agent the CIA ever had, but I thought I told you honkies from the CIA that Black Dynamite was out of the game!"
by Bald Pollack on Mar 17, 2010 1:52 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I remember a “Hull & Oates” poster hung in a local (Troy, NY) bar during my college days. Sadly, Google has no record of it.
I recall such a poster and did my own search.
Would you believe I found this?
For some reason it disturbs me.
Is he drinking Red Stripe?
Everyone wants to kill the king. But the prince, he just sails along telling all the ladies, "One day I'm gonna be king."
by Steck It Out on Mar 18, 2010 12:57 AM EDT up reply actions
I think that’s why his mouth is in that position, he’s saying: “Hurray Beer!”
Bah-Ram-Ewe, Ovechkin will wreck you. Fear the Furious Fleece!
No, his mouth is like that because Messier smiles like a snake eats.
Of all our iniquities ignorance may be the worst
by Killer_Carlson on Mar 18, 2010 1:05 AM EDT up reply actions
I’m totally buying. Not to say he’s a bigger influence on the team than Ovechkin, necessarily, but he is the lynch pin at this point. He brings so much to WHATEVER line he’s on, sets an example with his backcheck, plays the PK, dominates the PP… he’s invaluable in that sense.
Hell, mentality wise, the team has played without Ovie and knows they can do it successfully. It’s not a knock, but it’s not irrelevant either.
So pretty much what I’m saying is PAY THE MAN. ;)
"It is too bad that I can’t talk about it," Backstrom said with a sly smile. "I want to play for Washington but we’ll see what happens."
Sly Lars is sly.
Now helping to keep an eye on all things Gr8 at Alex Ovetjkin.
He could make WAY more $$$ as a franchise player for a different franchise. He’s going to be worth Crosby-money, and we can’t really pay him that. He only signs with us if he really wants to be here, badly.
You had me at no problem.
He doesn’t get that money at this point, since he’ll be an RFA.
by David M. Getz on Mar 17, 2010 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions
If Thomas Vanek can make 7+ as a RFA then Nick can make 8+. It’s all a matter of whether or not you let an insane GM bid on his services or not.
Killer_Carlson and Steckel Me Elmo are like brothers to me. And when I say brothers I don't mean like actual brothers. I mean it like how black people use it, which is more meaningful, I think.
by Fehr and Balanced on Mar 17, 2010 1:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Granted, it’s not impossible, but the odds are very, very small.
by David M. Getz on Mar 17, 2010 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions
If someone were going to sign him to an offer sheet, who would it be? They’d have to have the cap space, the draft picks, the money to pay him, etc.
I could see St. Louis doing that, actually. They’ve got a ton of cap room, no bona fide #1 center, and they’ve shown a willingness to sign guys to offer sheets. shudder
GUTEN TAAAAAAAAAAAAG!
He’s RFA though, GMGM wont let him go
Bah-Ram-Ewe, Ovechkin will wreck you. Fear the Furious Fleece!
One would hope so. But we just can’t afford to pay him 8+, which is what he’ll be worth in a year or two, if not already.
You had me at no problem.
Somewhat related, I continue to fail to understand how and why you sign Semin to a one-year deal before you lock up Nick long-term.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
So that they could secure Semin for another season, not have to trade him at the deadline or risk losing him for nothing, and then trade him after the season to a team that needs scoring, getting back some kind of return before he bolts for the KHL. Then we sign Backstrom long term, and everything is puppy dogs and pancakes.
Killer_Carlson and Steckel Me Elmo are like brothers to me. And when I say brothers I don't mean like actual brothers. I mean it like how black people use it, which is more meaningful, I think.
by Fehr and Balanced on Mar 17, 2010 2:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Or so they could trade him this season with cost certainty if it became the wisest course of action.
Still, I don’t see how he got a penny more than 52 and his signing, at the time, just bumped up the price on 19 (which has since risen on its own).
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
The shorter term explains the higher annual dollar figure of 28 v. 52.
The answer to your original question is, it buys them time. Time to sort out Nick, and see what the cap does during the off season, before they make any decisions about Semin.
"You want to start being part of the Rink? Fine, but more’s expected of you than John/Jane Cap Fan. Carry the cause of informed discussion to the unwashed masses and don’t crap in the yards of other SBN sites if you decide to go over there. They’re passionate about their teams too, no need to troll elsewhere and/or be a sore winner." --BP
I’d say it’s simply because Semin was willing to sign then. Trying to tie one contract to the other can leave you with both unsigned, and Semin’s signing was a good call for the team. I don’t think Semin’s signing really affects what Nicky gets.
You had me at no problem.
No, not any more, because Nick has outplayed a $6m contract.
But at the time, he may not have been above that, and teams consider internal salary structure when signing players. It’s why, for example, the Sabres have let players like Dumont and McKee walk in their free agent years.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
You know I agree with you. It makes no sense really. It’s nice to have Semin, but he’s nowhere near as indispensable or valuable as Green or Backstrom.
Killer_Carlson and Steckel Me Elmo are like brothers to me. And when I say brothers I don't mean like actual brothers. I mean it like how black people use it, which is more meaningful, I think.
by Fehr and Balanced on Mar 17, 2010 5:40 PM EDT up reply actions
That's how I see it (hopefully) playing out
"By far the worst performers on the team are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins
this one's easy
So they can trade him to Nashville for Dan Hamhuis, Dan Ellis, Mike Santorelli and our 2nd. And I kid only a little.
On the Forecheck: a blog that's more productive than a Predator power play!
Follow me on Twitter
Now Cycling like the Sedins
by Chris Burton on Mar 17, 2010 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions
When Brett Wilson gets his ownership deal worked out next year our self imposed cap goes away. Plus, that seems like a fair deal. But its all rosterbating with the assumption that you can’t afford Backstrom and Semin and would rather have Lars.
On the Forecheck: a blog that's more productive than a Predator power play!
Follow me on Twitter
Now Cycling like the Sedins
by Chris Burton on Mar 17, 2010 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Deal!
As long as we sign DH first.
Killer_Carlson and Steckel Me Elmo are like brothers to me. And when I say brothers I don't mean like actual brothers. I mean it like how black people use it, which is more meaningful, I think.
by Fehr and Balanced on Mar 17, 2010 5:41 PM EDT up reply actions
‘Cept that doesn’t really address the cap issues. Trading Semin would be a salary dump, and House is not coming cheap.
Now helping to keep an eye on all things Gr8 at Alex Ovetjkin.
He won’t be 6 mill, that’s for sure. 3.5 would be a big raise for DH, and a big cap savings for us.
Killer_Carlson and Steckel Me Elmo are like brothers to me. And when I say brothers I don't mean like actual brothers. I mean it like how black people use it, which is more meaningful, I think.
by Fehr and Balanced on Mar 17, 2010 5:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Can Eric Fehr step up to 2R? He’s got about 1/2 of Semin’s goals in 1/3 his ice time.
He’s not as elegant or shifty as Semin but he’s good at goals when goals are needed.
Now helping to keep an eye on all things Gr8 at Alex Ovetjkin.
Well, the reason he’s looked goofy on the 2nd line was two-fold:
1) he didn’t have the wheels to keep up with Semin, and
2) he didn’t have consistent enough effort/confidence.
It seems to me that he’s addressed the first issue in part, and the second issue almost entirely. Moreover, trading Semin eliminates the first issue altogether.
There's a fine line between arrogance and ignorance and only I manage to erase that line.
Bruce might have an aneurysm though. We should keep that in mind.
Now helping to keep an eye on all things Gr8 at Alex Ovetjkin.
Trading Semin, regardless of trade partner, is going to get you a really good return.
On the Forecheck: a blog that's more productive than a Predator power play!
Follow me on Twitter
Now Cycling like the Sedins
by Chris Burton on Mar 17, 2010 6:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Except that Fehr and Semin have never been on the 2nd line at the same time. Fehr’s been on the 2nd line with Fleischmann plenty during the last 2 years and possibly with Laich but never Semin.
Fehr was usually on the 2nd line when Semin was out with the injury. When Semin came back, he was on the 1st line since Knuble was out.
Rocking the Red since 1975
easy
I think its a pretty good deal. Santorelli goes to Hershey, Ellis backs up Varly, and you’ve just saved money. Hamhuis will sign for 3M +/-, I think.
On the Forecheck: a blog that's more productive than a Predator power play!
Follow me on Twitter
Now Cycling like the Sedins
by Chris Burton on Mar 17, 2010 6:00 PM EDT up reply actions
STL has a ton of young talent they’ll need to re-sign in the near future. I’m not sure it makes sense for them to do it but they do have money and the stones to sign a RFA sheet. I could see EDM trying.
Killer_Carlson and Steckel Me Elmo are like brothers to me. And when I say brothers I don't mean like actual brothers. I mean it like how black people use it, which is more meaningful, I think.
by Fehr and Balanced on Mar 17, 2010 1:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Edmonton doesn’t have the cap space next year. $15 million and only 14 players under contract. They’d be filling those last last 7 roster spots with scrubs if they signed Nicky to an 8M/year deal.
GUTEN TAAAAAAAAAAAAG!
Oof. I hadn’t even looked. I just assumed such a bad team would have a boatload of cap space.
Killer_Carlson and Steckel Me Elmo are like brothers to me. And when I say brothers I don't mean like actual brothers. I mean it like how black people use it, which is more meaningful, I think.
by Fehr and Balanced on Mar 17, 2010 1:57 PM EDT up reply actions
yup
Horcoff, Souray, and Moreau are all way overpaid.
On the Forecheck: a blog that's more productive than a Predator power play!
Follow me on Twitter
Now Cycling like the Sedins
by Chris Burton on Mar 17, 2010 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Dustin Penner, too. Oh man did Kevin Lowe do a number on that team. Can you imagine the cap misery they’d be in if they had actually signed Thomas Vanek to that ridiculous 7 million/8 year contract?
But did we expect anything different? Lowe learned at the feet of Glen Sather…
GUTEN TAAAAAAAAAAAAG!
Tambellini is just as bad.
On the Forecheck: a blog that's more productive than a Predator power play!
Follow me on Twitter
Now Cycling like the Sedins
by Chris Burton on Mar 17, 2010 4:40 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m not going to lie…this quote kind of worries me. I never like hearing the “we’ll see what happens” even though it’s a reality.
I agree with you, sends shivers down my spine. I hate trades a lot, mostly because I love the Caps as a team and I love each player. I hate losing any of them and I wonder if the players themselves feel the same way. I often wonder (ridiculous, I know) if AO would consider renegotiating to be paid less than $10mil a year so that Nicky can sign a 10-year deal or something. I mean, Malkin and Crosby make about $7mil each (granted, for only another couple years).
I often wonder (ridiculous, I know) if AO would consider renegotiating to be paid less than $10mil a year so that Nicky can sign a 10-year deal or something.
Not allowed under the current CBA.
by David M. Getz on Mar 17, 2010 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions
…Which expires pretty soon. He may get a chance to renegotiate it. I’m not sure he’d take that opportunity though, even if it was legal at some point.
Killer_Carlson and Steckel Me Elmo are like brothers to me. And when I say brothers I don't mean like actual brothers. I mean it like how black people use it, which is more meaningful, I think.
by Fehr and Balanced on Mar 17, 2010 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Malkin and Crosby make (wait for it) $8.7 mil each. They are only signed for 5 years, with (I think) next season being the third year.
Now helping to keep an eye on all things Gr8 at Alex Ovetjkin.
As we all know the amount they get paid differs from the cap hit (9 million a year for Crosby for this year and the next two, then 7.5 million in 2012-13 and same for Malkin with an additional year at 9 million before his 7.5 million 2013-14 contract year) but the salary cap hit is 8.7 million for both players each year.
For comparison, AO’s actual pay is 9 million/year until 2014-15 and then it goes up to 10 million and his cap hit is 9.5 each year through the duration of his contract.
I think GMGM can find a way to pay Backstrom 8 million a year with AO’s contract and Green’s also. Semin’s money will open up and hopefully we have moved on from the 4.5 million a year that Theo is eating up (albeit worth it this year) to a more wallet friendly contract with Varly, Neuvy or Holtby.
Forget about finding your perfect match, I want a website where you can find your perfect arch-nemesis
by Lunatic Fringe on Mar 17, 2010 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Here’s my prediction on Crosby and Malkin. When those contracts expire, Malkin goes someplace else. By that time, he’ll be pretty comfortable in the U.S., his English should be more than passable and he’ll probably be ready to move out of Crosby’s shadow. He’ll know that he can make a lot more in a city like LA and his agent and his Russian buddies will be whispering in his ear that with his talent, it’s time he became the star of his own team and in his own city. It highly unlikely that two superstars of that caliber, playing the same position can stay together very long before one of them wants out.
The only way I don’t see Malkin giving Pittsburgh a serious scare if not walking is if they win another title.
Cидни Kросби: Александр Oвечкин, он твой папа теперь
Capitals Coming: for Capitals fans no more intelligent than myself
by red army line on Mar 17, 2010 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Malkin to the Kings! Garrioch was right!
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
Kings won’t be able to afford him then, they’ll be dealing with keeping Doughty, Johnson, Brown, Kopitar, etc. I do agree that he’ll go somewhere else though.
Killer_Carlson and Steckel Me Elmo are like brothers to me. And when I say brothers I don't mean like actual brothers. I mean it like how black people use it, which is more meaningful, I think.
by Fehr and Balanced on Mar 17, 2010 5:50 PM EDT up reply actions
I think people hoping for a 10 year Lars contract will be disappointed
But I will be very happy with a 5 year deal, anyway. No reason why we won’t be able to resign him in 5 years.
He’s 22 right now, so I think 5 years from now is his first UFA year.
Cидни Kросби: Александр Oвечкин, он твой папа теперь
Capitals Coming: for Capitals fans no more intelligent than myself
by red army line on Mar 17, 2010 5:21 PM EDT up reply actions
I asked this question last night – what if some of those calls ringing through to Nicky’s agent’s phone are coming from a Moscow exchange?
Now helping to keep an eye on all things Gr8 at Alex Ovetjkin.
Sure he does – just to see what the offer is. Then he chuckles and adds another zero to the sheet marked Capitals.
Now helping to keep an eye on all things Gr8 at Alex Ovetjkin.
For western Euro players I don’t think they’d have any interest bolting to what looked like a league of AHL’ers during the Olympics. That Russian implosion had to have left a pretty huge mark against the league. I don’t think anyone really can take the KHL seriously unless it is their only option.
President and sole member of the Erskine lobby.
W]hen it comes to the success of any team in the postseason, the goalie is the team’s most indispensible player
“The goalie” as a position, yes. “The goalie” as Jose Theodore, no. He can be bad and replaced and the Caps could still advance. See, for example, last year’s first round.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
Yeah, its tricky to argue this, I realize the Caps have an interesting goalie situation right now, but how many teams can win a stanley cup without strong (compared to just avg.) goalie performance?
So perhaps the answer on which goalie is THE goalie isn’t established yet, but I’ll wager that the Caps need for a strong goalie is larger than the need for any other player.
Chris Osgood is an average goalie. Marc Andre Fleury is an average goalie.
Kung-fu Rink Rabbit
Donate to the Rink Pledge Drive for SAVES FOR KIDS! Ain’t nothing [wrong] about giving $5 so a stranger’s premature baby can have the time on a respirator they need.~Gould Old Days
But Trent Dilfer is an awesome goalie (snark)
For every action, there is an equal and opposite criticism.
by Rather Bengt on Mar 17, 2010 1:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Chris Osgood will get dissed because of the caliber of the defensemen and overall defensive responsibility of guys like Zetterberg and Dats.
Fleury – I dont know if I’d call him average. he was good enough to get them to the Cup FInals twice with a pretty much no name defense.
Osgood will also get dissed for playing terrible hockey.
Killer_Carlson and Steckel Me Elmo are like brothers to me. And when I say brothers I don't mean like actual brothers. I mean it like how black people use it, which is more meaningful, I think.
by Fehr and Balanced on Mar 17, 2010 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions
That still doesn’t make the goalie most indispensible unless he’s significantly better than the other guys, does it? So unless someone jumps out in front…
by David M. Getz on Mar 17, 2010 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Further to that point, how can the most indispensible player be a position, which implicitly ignores any one specific player?
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
Yea, exactly right… None of the goalies are indispensable because you have 2 other comparable goalies to step in…
by Bushwood Bushwhacker on Mar 17, 2010 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes.
Signed,
K. Holland, S. Bowman.
Killer_Carlson and Steckel Me Elmo are like brothers to me. And when I say brothers I don't mean like actual brothers. I mean it like how black people use it, which is more meaningful, I think.
by Fehr and Balanced on Mar 17, 2010 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions
So the most indispensable player in the NHL is whichever starting goalie whose backup is the worst?
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Mar 17, 2010 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Whichever starting goalie has the biggest gap between him and his backup…?
You had me at no problem.
yup. that’s what I meant.
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Mar 17, 2010 4:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Btw, the Oates quote in that article is an absolute gem.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
Ha
Was typing this when your comment came up:
"It is like a husband and wife – you start passing the salt before she even asks for it. He obviously has that talent. "
Does that make Ovi the wife?
we're not gonna allow someone like Downie to go after him.
I’d think so, as Nick is the passer.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
Wow, would have never guessed Ovie as the catcher in the relationship
Bah-Ram-Ewe, Ovechkin will wreck you. Fear the Furious Fleece!
really? a picture is worth a thousand words or something
by Yoshietree on Mar 17, 2010 1:48 PM EDT up reply actions 7 recs
At least it wasn’t his bare toes tucked up under Nicky’s thigh. People would talk.
Now helping to keep an eye on all things Gr8 at Alex Ovetjkin.
beat me to it!
"the other day on sportscenter they said something along the lines of "the capitals score so much tiger woods is jealous" haha had me laughing hard while i was eating my cereal"
The toes are bad enough, and Nicky’s elbow is on Ovi’s thigh… ;-)
Blog: I Rock the Red
Twitter: @IRockTheRed
E-mail: irockthered {at} gmail {dot} com
He’s not wearing socks. Those are stinky shoes.
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Mar 17, 2010 4:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Um, wow. Amazing.
Every time the Swedish Swashbuckler scores a goal, an angel gets its wings.
by SeattleCapsFan on Mar 17, 2010 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions
I still think they fall asleep in a big pile, like puppies.
Now helping to keep an eye on all things Gr8 at Alex Ovetjkin.
by EmilyB on Mar 17, 2010 6:07 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
#brookslaichstillpracticing
I have a C on my heart.
by boutros23 on Mar 17, 2010 6:12 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
I love that image.
"Camaraderie, that's what the Washington Capitals are all about."
by CapitalCentre on Mar 17, 2010 9:26 PM EDT up reply actions
AWWWWWW! That is too cute! :-)
Blog: I Rock the Red
Twitter: @IRockTheRed
E-mail: irockthered {at} gmail {dot} com
by IRockTheRed on Mar 17, 2010 11:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Is he really the passer though? I mean, haven’t you guys displayed otherwise here and in recent articles?
we're not gonna allow someone like Downie to go after him.
Maybe it’s almost even in the offensive zone, but I’d wager that elsewhere Ovechkin heads up ice before the Caps get the puck in order to receive a pass, while Backstrom stays back to make sure the Caps get possession.
Cидни Kросби: Александр Oвечкин, он твой папа теперь
Capitals Coming: for Capitals fans no more intelligent than myself
by red army line on Mar 17, 2010 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Its a hard call to make to say Nicky is the singular most indispensable player. This year, I just don’t see the Caps winning a Cup without either Ovie or Nicky (obviously, I hope we don’t get into a situation to prove me wrong). Its the same for the Pens, I don’t see them winning Cups without both Malkin and Crosby. If we lose Nicky to RFA, replacing him will be almost impossible.
They’re not going to lose him, it’s just a question of how much they end up paying him.
"You want to start being part of the Rink? Fine, but more’s expected of you than John/Jane Cap Fan. Carry the cause of informed discussion to the unwashed masses and don’t crap in the yards of other SBN sites if you decide to go over there. They’re passionate about their teams too, no need to troll elsewhere and/or be a sore winner." --BP
Yeah, I doubt anyone on this team wants to leave. Great shot at the Cup. I have a feeling it’s a matter of the contract length more than anything but I hope he’s locked up for just as long as Ovechkin.
President and sole member of the Erskine lobby.
I hope you are right. But the money is scary cause while we’re not a one-man-team, we’re also not a two-man-team. Don’t want to shutout the ability to pick up vets like knuble and whatnot down the road.
That’s the big issue. The Caps FO want to leave themselves enough room to sign complementary pieces; Backstrom wants to get paid according to market rates. I don’t blame him. I do too.
They’ll figure something out.
"You want to start being part of the Rink? Fine, but more’s expected of you than John/Jane Cap Fan. Carry the cause of informed discussion to the unwashed masses and don’t crap in the yards of other SBN sites if you decide to go over there. They’re passionate about their teams too, no need to troll elsewhere and/or be a sore winner." --BP
yeah I imagine there’s no real rush either. If either side was desperate, the deal would have been inked or he’d have been traded. I hope it’ll be done in the offseason, ride this contract year performance to the end.
President and sole member of the Erskine lobby.
Trying to predict the “when” of these things with McPhee involved is flat out impossible. He keeps the lid on so tight, that it just happens when it happens.
I would be very, very, very suprised if it gets to the date where other teams get to make an offer, though. And that would only be if they’re so far apart, that the only alternative is to let the market set a price.
"You want to start being part of the Rink? Fine, but more’s expected of you than John/Jane Cap Fan. Carry the cause of informed discussion to the unwashed masses and don’t crap in the yards of other SBN sites if you decide to go over there. They’re passionate about their teams too, no need to troll elsewhere and/or be a sore winner." --BP
Didn’t they say the money was settled and they’re just working on the term?
Hanlon's Razor: Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.
Sketchy report, and the money can’t possibly be settled if they’re still working on the term (I mean, it can, but if the money is “settled” at $6.5m and one side wants one year and the other wants ten, I doubt the money stays settled very long).
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
It could be more like they agreed on $70m total, and one side wants $7m for 10 years, the other wants $10m for 7 years (just pulling numbers out of thin air).
Random question, but isn’t cap space supposed to open up this year with the end of Jose’s $4.5mil hit? Should we resign him? How does our goalie factor into how much we can afford on Nicky?
Don’t forget Nylander’s $4.875, too.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
We are fine next year. We run into issues when Sasha and the Goalies need to get paid next summer.
by Bushwood Bushwhacker on Mar 17, 2010 1:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Caps have $20MM in cap space next year, but only 13 players signed. So they’ll run through a good chunk of that pretty fast.
Might take the rest of this discussion back to the Clips thread if anyone’s interested.
"You want to start being part of the Rink? Fine, but more’s expected of you than John/Jane Cap Fan. Carry the cause of informed discussion to the unwashed masses and don’t crap in the yards of other SBN sites if you decide to go over there. They’re passionate about their teams too, no need to troll elsewhere and/or be a sore winner." --BP
http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2010/03/could-the-caps-capitalize-on-cap-space-this-summer.php
Now helping to keep an eye on all things Gr8 at Alex Ovetjkin.
I was with the article right up to this point:
Washington could go after a big name veteran goalie like Marty Turco or even Evgeni Nabokov
Kung-fu Rink Rabbit
Donate to the Rink Pledge Drive for SAVES FOR KIDS! Ain’t nothing [wrong] about giving $5 so a stranger’s premature baby can have the time on a respirator they need.~Gould Old Days
Nabokov is Russian, therefore the Caps are interested (e4)
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
Don’t you feel like there is some truth in them being more interested as an org in Russian players now though? I feel like they did the same type of thing when Jagr was here.
I look to the future because that's where I'm going to spend the rest of my life.
Maybe. But only in that they figure they might be a better fit for those players and thus have an advantage related to signing them and whatnot. For example, I recall when Kugryshev was drafted, people said he’d have gone higher had it not been for the transfer agreement issues and the KHL. But the Caps weren’t scared, since they have the ultimate bait for a young Russian.
Maybe there’s more to it, but I’m not sure I really see it.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
Carlson, Kugryshev, Holtby; AnGus, C.Smith
I think GMGM has a talent fetish, with a lineage chaser. Don’t know what he has against Finns, but the rest of his stuff looks like a worldwide search to me.
Right. I used Kugryshev in the draft as an example, but similar theory would apply to free agenst, I think – “Hey, come here and have fun with your country’s best player. Sure, you could make more elsewhere, but why would you want to?”
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
And, I think what Z was getting at was that it works both ways – a bit of an appeasement for the Russians currently on the squad.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
GMGM is in a great spot: I must imagine DC is an easier sell to players from {Sweden, Slovakia, Siberia, so on} than, say STL would be. Kettler’s pretty damn nice. Owner and fans bring the love. And no matter where you’re from, a young stud from your homeland already is in the room.
I don’t think there are discounts, but I’ll bet there are surcharges (Piney Orchard penalty? Satherbux?). I can’t think of one that Caps have to pay these days.
I think GMGM has a talent fetish, with a lineage chaser.
Team president Dick Patrick would like a word with you about lineage.
Now helping to keep an eye on all things Gr8 at Alex Ovetjkin.
Orlov is an even better example. Consensus had him as a 1st round pick, yet he slipped to the late 2nd round because of the lack of transfer agreement.
There's a fine line between arrogance and ignorance and only I manage to erase that line.
Right. Perfect (and I might have confused the two).
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
Not buying
I think Lars is a top 3 center in the league, and I think in a year or two it’ll be hard for anyone to argue otherwise, but there is no way that the Great 8 is not the most valuable on the ice, on the bench, in the room, spiritually, mentally, physically….. you get the point. It’s Ovie.
If you could only have 1, you’re telling me you pick Backstrom?
by Bushwood Bushwhacker on Mar 17, 2010 1:52 PM EDT reply actions
Yeah, but I own a Backstrom sweater, and not one of Ovi’s… I’d hate to have to replace that.
Honestly, the situation probably depends. Do I want Ovi to be in town for the next 20 years, yes. He’s a larger than life personality and that plays into everything off the ice as well as everything on it. But if I have to make a choice between Ovi and Backstrom for the Cup run this year, it is certainly closer than you might think.
we're not gonna allow someone like Downie to go after him.
Buy, and simply because...
the teams success over the past few years matches Backstrom’s improvements in production, not Ovi’s
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: these two are the Gretzky and Kurri of this generation of hockey players. Both are incredible talents, who together are hilariously good. If they manage to spend a bunch of seasons together in D.C., we’re in for a treat.
If I have to sign one to a 13 year deal, I sign Backstrom, but only because I’m terrified Ovi’s going to hurt himself.
I am a hockey fan first, and a Caps fan second.
No offense to Jarri, he was the rare Oiler I liked back in the 80’s, but Baks will be bettr than jarri was by the end of his career if he stays healthy. Jarri was a scoring wing and that was it. Baks is much more multi-dimensional, even if he wasn’t playing center.
"You ever use smelling salts, every time you type a bad blog?" Brooks Laich
What if Backis is the Gretzky and Ovie is the Kurri?
Is Laich or Semin the Glenn Anderson then?
There's a fine line between arrogance and ignorance and only I manage to erase that line.
Semin is probably Andersen.
"You ever use smelling salts, every time you type a bad blog?" Brooks Laich
Brooks would be Messier.
"You ever use smelling salts, every time you type a bad blog?" Brooks Laich
I see Ovie as Mess, position notwithstanding.
There's a fine line between arrogance and ignorance and only I manage to erase that line.
I’d buy that. Not sure who who’d really fit as. Mactavish was a much better guy in the dot, however not as good a scorer as Brooks.
"You ever use smelling salts, every time you type a bad blog?" Brooks Laich
All I know is that Semin is not Glenn Anderson.
Killer_Carlson and Steckel Me Elmo are like brothers to me. And when I say brothers I don't mean like actual brothers. I mean it like how black people use it, which is more meaningful, I think.
by Fehr and Balanced on Mar 17, 2010 6:25 PM EDT up reply actions
He’s the only guy I saw in a similar vein. I expect Sahsa to be a bit more consistent scoring wise. Also, I realize he plays the other side. They aren’t similar in style either, but its the nearest I could come.
Who’s McSorley or Semenko?
"You ever use smelling salts, every time you type a bad blog?" Brooks Laich
Those two guys don’t exist anymore. We have 20 guys that play hockey dress every night.
Killer_Carlson and Steckel Me Elmo are like brothers to me. And when I say brothers I don't mean like actual brothers. I mean it like how black people use it, which is more meaningful, I think.
by Fehr and Balanced on Mar 17, 2010 7:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Actually, stylistically, Backstrom reminds me more of Gretzky than Kurri. Backstrom is also a Center (as was Gretzky). I was looking at it more form the perspective of two players who were both tremendous, but never as good apart as they were together.
I am a hockey fan first, and a Caps fan second.
by iwearstripes on Mar 17, 2010 10:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Sell
I love Backis, but the most indispensable player on this team is Mike Green. He’s on the ice more than any other player; he kills penalties and plays all two minutes of almost every power play. He’s still our only reliable puck-moving defenseman. I like DMG’s argument about losing Backstrom and the next-best alternative being Belanger or BMo, but can you imagine a Caps team where Tom Poti and Joe Corvo are playing 25-30 minutes a night?
Yeah, it gives me the creeps, too.
We saw it last year in the playoffs – when Green struggles, the team struggles with him. There’s a reason why other teams expend so much energy and are willing to take penalties in order to get hits on him. Nobody else on this team is targeted to the same degree.
I imagine if you talked to all 29 opposing coaches in the league and asked: “You’ve got to shut down one of these three players: Backstrom, Ovechkin, Green, which do you choose?” I think over half would pick Green, with the rest split 60/40 in favor of Ovechkin.
There's a fine line between arrogance and ignorance and only I manage to erase that line.
by D'ohboy on Mar 17, 2010 3:34 PM EDT reply actions 3 recs
This is an interesting argument. I actually might buy this. Maybe defensemen in general are typically more valuable to their teams.
On the Forecheck: a blog that's more productive than a Predator power play!
Follow me on Twitter
Now Cycling like the Sedins
by Chris Burton on Mar 17, 2010 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Must be – I read somewhere that Matt Carle is the 4th most valuable player to his team in the League.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
Think you blew those stats off too quickly, but whatever. He noted that Carle was very difficult to separate from Pronger-who I assume you’d be more receptive of being that valuable.
He just put up a LVP using the same measures (I think) so check that out. No Caps anywhere in sight.
On the Forecheck: a blog that's more productive than a Predator power play!
Follow me on Twitter
Now Cycling like the Sedins
by Chris Burton on Mar 17, 2010 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions
You’re only saying “sell” because you’re dieing to avoid the lemming tag, aren’t you?
Seriously, you make a good point. I’m not sure what Corvo does to this equation, though.
"You want to start being part of the Rink? Fine, but more’s expected of you than John/Jane Cap Fan. Carry the cause of informed discussion to the unwashed masses and don’t crap in the yards of other SBN sites if you decide to go over there. They’re passionate about their teams too, no need to troll elsewhere and/or be a sore winner." --BP
Lemmings was a kick ass video game back in the day.
There's a fine line between arrogance and ignorance and only I manage to erase that line.
Certainly game-to-game losing Green hurts more than I’d even say losing Ovechkin. But over an extended period of time, I think the team and coaches would be able to work out something that relies less on that puck-mover from the blueline (so I’d lose Ovechkin over Green for a game or two, otherwise lose Green).
Losing Backstrom…tough to tell, since we haven’t seen what the team can do without him, really. I’d say though that while center isn’t deep at all on the Caps, wing is, and maybe, just maybe, that can offset Backstrom’s loss quite a bit.
Agree with D’ohboy and others. Green is most indispensible, followed by Backstrom then Ovechkin I would say.
Cидни Kросби: Александр Oвечкин, он твой папа теперь
Capitals Coming: for Capitals fans no more intelligent than myself
by red army line on Mar 17, 2010 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions
As I mentioned above, I think the addition of Corvo helps take care of the puck moving part to a degree.
"You ever use smelling salts, every time you type a bad blog?" Brooks Laich
To a degree. But I’d still poop my pants if he and Poti were our top puck-movers.
Picking up Corvo was a brilliant move because it’s a hedge against the strategy that F&B and I pointed out – Run Mike Green. However, I don’t want that hedge to be necessary if at all possible.
If you look at all the teams that have won the Cup (or competed for it regularly), they’ve almost all got one thing in common: at least two good puck-moving defensemen.
Carolina: didn’t have two great ones, but they had four guys who were all pretty good and they had some great defensive centers to help out.
Anaheim: Niedermayer and Pronger – now that they’re old and gone, Anaheim kinda sucks.
Detroit: Lidstrom and Rafalski
Pittsburgh: Gonchar and Letang
When goalies can’t play the puck and you can’t slow down oncoming forecheckers by obstructing them, you need puck moving defensemen to get out of your own end and generate offense. That’s generally the situation that’s obtained since the lockout…
There's a fine line between arrogance and ignorance and only I manage to erase that line.
whoo
If you look at all the teams that have won the Cup (or competed for it regularly), they’ve almost all got one thing in common: at least two good puck-moving defensemen.
Predz win de Cup!
Oh wait.
On the Forecheck: a blog that's more productive than a Predator power play!
Follow me on Twitter
Now Cycling like the Sedins
by Chris Burton on Mar 17, 2010 6:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, you still need somewhat decent forwards.
(Sorry. I used to love Stevie Sullivan back in the day if that’s any consolation.)
There's a fine line between arrogance and ignorance and only I manage to erase that line.
We have somewhat decent forwards. Lots of them. The thing is, those cup teams you mentioned? Getzlaf, Selanne, Perry; Datsyuk, Zetterberg; then Crosby and Malkin.
On the Forecheck: a blog that's more productive than a Predator power play!
Follow me on Twitter
Now Cycling like the Sedins
by Chris Burton on Mar 17, 2010 6:24 PM EDT up reply actions
oh
And Sully’s still cool. Just not quite as good as 06-07 Sully.
On the Forecheck: a blog that's more productive than a Predator power play!
Follow me on Twitter
Now Cycling like the Sedins
by Chris Burton on Mar 17, 2010 6:24 PM EDT up reply actions
PHI said that the key to games 2-7 in that series was shutting down Mike Green.
Killer_Carlson and Steckel Me Elmo are like brothers to me. And when I say brothers I don't mean like actual brothers. I mean it like how black people use it, which is more meaningful, I think.
by Fehr and Balanced on Mar 17, 2010 5:56 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m coming into this discussion late having just got home from work but I think the quote should read:
“…Nick Backstrom’s increased emergence and production could be the team’s most indispensable quality.”
Bottom line…he can make this statement because you already expect Ovechkin to be Ovechkin. He’s the same guy who put up 8 goals and 6 assists in the Pitt series last spring…the only player to record a point in all 7 games. He came alive in the 2nd half of the Rangers series and always brings that level in the playoffs.
While Lars has been no slouch either in his 3 playoff series to date, If he continues being one of the top 5 or 10 best players period in the league come the postseason, that rise in his level may end up being the quality that gets us over the hump and to the Cup. Stating that in no way diminishes the foundation of Ovie’s play to the team’s success…it’s just pointing out the ways in which you see the team getting even better on the whole.
That would have been the best comment on this whole thread, if you had spelled Swede right.
Bah-Ram-Ewe, Ovechkin will wreck you. Fear the Furious Fleece!
Here’s a picture of the picture they put on the jumbotron.
If you could get just the picture, they could put it on a t-shirt.
Everyone wants to kill the king. But the prince, he just sails along telling all the ladies, "One day I'm gonna be king."
by Steck It Out on Mar 18, 2010 1:04 AM EDT up reply actions
so let's quit playing around and sign Backstrom
Too much fooling around — it’s time to sign that contract. His price is now up close to $8M a year, I’m guessing. There’s still a chance that he leaves, but the price is now getting way up there. Laich will be expensive in another year as well – his deal ends in July 2011. We are going to lose some pieces, for sure.
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
Related FanPosts on Japers' Rink
Related FanShots on Japers' Rink
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recent FanPosts
FanShots
Quick hits of video, photos, quotes, chats, links and lists that you find around the web.
Recent FanShots
Southeast Standings
| GP | W | L | OTL | PT | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
Washington
|
82 | 54 | 15 | 13 | 121 |
|
Atlanta
|
82 | 35 | 34 | 13 | 83 |
|
Carolina
|
82 | 35 | 37 | 10 | 80 |
|
Tampa Bay
|
82 | 34 | 36 | 12 | 80 |
|
Florida
|
82 | 32 | 37 | 13 | 77 |
(updated 4.12.2010 at 9:21 AM EDT)
The Vault
In Association With
Latest Puck Daddy - NHL from Yahoo! Sports
- Trending Topics: Odd arbitration decisions; more NHLers Tweeting
- Ovechkin wins fifth Kharlamov Trophy, talks Talbot
- Puck Headlines: Witt hits waivers; Kovalchuk grievance details set
- Jersey Fouls: Sharks get creatively awful; hockey movie pass/fail
- White, Flames agree to one-year deal; Bruins sign Wheeler
Certain photos copyright © 2010 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
