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On Finishing Checks Post Ovechkin/Campbell

Truth is the Ovechkin hit on Campbell, or some form of it, happens in almost every game, but if there's no injury, there's no penalty.-@TSNBobMcKenzie via web

 

Do you guys honestly think that Ovechkin hit happens every game? Look at the force with which he heaves a player from behind into the end boards… that’s not a common occurrence.

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by James Mirtle on Mar 16, 2010 2:11 PM EDT 

 

Yes James, I do...and in the first period of tonight's game, we saw one of those plays at least twice. The second time I noticed it, I paused my DVR, took out the old moderately intelligent phone and snapped a couple photos to share. 

 

Mo-1_medium

via i339.photobucket.com

Shaone Morrisonn is chasing a puck back towards the net, with Florida Panther forward Michal Repik in hot pursuit

 

Mo-2_medium

via i339.photobucket.com

Morrisonn goes to play the puck and Repik finishes his check.....from behind. 

 

If Morissonn's skate hits a rut, he might end up in the same condition as Brian Campbell. If Morrisonn takes an unexpected  route towards the front of the net, he might end up in the same condition as Brian Campbell. Instead, Morrisonn does what usually happens on those kinds of plays and goes to the boards. You almost ALWAYS see a player go to the boards or behind the net.

 

The purpose of this FanPost was not to cast blame on Brian Campbell for his injury. My only point is that Ovechkin was simply doing what every hockey player is taught to do. Skate hard, and finish your checks. This is something you see game in, game out, without incident.

Ovechkin/Campbell had an unexpected and unfortunate result and will be remembered for the rest of their careers and beyond. Morrisonn/Repik will be forgotten within a week by everyone who read this FanPost, and sooner by those who didn't. They both began as common hockey plays, if only they both had ended as one. 

If this FanPost is written by someone other than one of the blog's editors, the opinions expressed in it do not necessarily reflect those of this blog or SB Nation.

Comment 61 comments  |  18 recs  | 

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As for the

Look at the force with which he heaves a player from behind into the end boards
part of Mirtle’s quote I used, the boards rattled quite loudly when Morrisonn was hit. I have no doubt if Morrisonn had changed direction at the last second, or if he had hit a rut as many suspect Campbell did, the force with which Morrisonn would have hit the boards would have been similar or worse.

And yes, I know that’s a lot of ifs,

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by Sombrero Guy on Mar 16, 2010 9:40 PM EDT reply actions  

I was watching a piece of the Vancouver/Islanders game on NHL on the Fly and saw a Canuck drill an Islander in an almost identical way to what happened with Ovechkin/Campbell. Differences were that there were more people around and both players were immediately on their feet afterwards. The announcers didn’t make a note of it, none of the players got in each others faces over it and no penalty was called. It was a typical play.

Suspend Colin Campbell!

by snowburnt on Mar 17, 2010 5:26 AM EDT up reply actions  

I think now that our collective antennas are up about plays like this, you’ll notice it several times each game. There were more examples in last night’s Caps/Panthers game. Might be a fun exercise to take photos of EVERY example in a random game and post them as a slide show on Flickr.

Something went wrong on Sunday, and that something isn’t “Alex Ovechkin Is A Dirty Goon Who Must Be Stopped”

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by Sombrero Guy on Mar 17, 2010 7:03 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

It might be fun, or it might just come off as whiny bitterness…Or it might be just what we need.

Suspend Colin Campbell!

by snowburnt on Mar 17, 2010 11:09 AM EDT up reply actions  

also possible (although a lot more work): an “album” of youtube videos?

by Natty Bumppo on Mar 17, 2010 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

I’d like to see this. I think it’s very important for folks to have this on their radar.

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by IRockTheRed on Mar 18, 2010 1:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

SG, thanks for posting this. I think it’s obvious that hits like this happen all the time in hockey. It is ridiculous to single out Ovechkin just because of his strength when he does it.

It’s unfortunate that Campbell was injured, but this is ice hockey – not ice dancing.

by Gin and Tonic on Mar 16, 2010 10:49 PM EDT reply actions  

I’m not even sure how much of what happened to Campbell was Ovechkin’s “strength”. Ovi pulled up on his hit. Campbell’s momentum did most of the damage. It was just an awkward unfortunate play from my view.

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by Sombrero Guy on Mar 17, 2010 7:05 AM EDT up reply actions  

I think that Ovi’s strength was a definite factor. These guys are all such good skaters that without some sort of outside influence, they almost never toe pick. I said it the other day, if Ovi isn’t the one doing the pushing and its Bradley, or Chimera, or Repik, Campbell’s blade bites in rather than picking and the play looks like the one your highlighted here.

we're not gonna allow someone like Downie to go after him.

by Sct112 on Mar 17, 2010 9:23 AM EDT up reply actions  

unless you’re Semin on a Shootout…

"the other day on sportscenter they said something along the lines of "the capitals score so much tiger woods is jealous" haha had me laughing hard while i was eating my cereal"

by highslot84 on Mar 17, 2010 10:15 AM EDT up reply actions  

Or Green in the D zone… Or 07/08 Schultz crossing the blue line.

by FFSEnough on Mar 17, 2010 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

Or you hit a really bad patch of ice behind the goal… gee, we never see THAT.

(Never mind that I have seen ruts caused by the ICE RESURFACER at Verizon before the skaters ever touch the ice, and have photos of them!)

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by IRockTheRed on Mar 18, 2010 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

I did point this Mirtle’s way by the way.

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by Ovechwin on Mar 17, 2010 8:07 AM EDT reply actions  

Stellar use of a FanPost, SG. Rec’d.

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by J.P. on Mar 17, 2010 10:23 AM EDT reply actions  

Gracias Amigo.

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by Sombrero Guy on Mar 17, 2010 2:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

Finish Hits and inconsistency

Am I the only one who was pissed last night when Laich scored and had his head driven into the ice with no call? The NHL says they want to put a stop to hits to the head yet last night, after the goal, Laich gets his head driven into the ice by the D-Man with no call. Watching the game on CSN, Joe made a comment and Craig said, “if the game were closer it might be called!” Well, IF the NHL is trying to enforce rules to reduce injuries, then they have to make that call in both a 1-1 game and a 7-3 game! The inconsistency is what is driving me crazy!

by Rickarama on Mar 17, 2010 11:03 AM EDT reply actions  

Not only that Laich got a left hook before that for his trouble. My only thought was that any penalty would have been negated by the goal, still that was a pretty malicious act by Allen.

Sometimes I wonder about the skirmishes that take place after the whistle. Some get pretty heated and I’m surprised more doesn’t come from them.

Suspend Colin Campbell!

by snowburnt on Mar 17, 2010 11:08 AM EDT up reply actions  

I think it’s as simple as the ref didn’t see it, or didn’t see how forceful it was. We just happened to get a great vantage point from the camera angle.

by psuscott1 on Mar 17, 2010 11:17 AM EDT up reply actions  

must have been the ref from the 2nd period jumbotron Eye Doctors of Washington promo we see at the VC.

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by Sombrero Guy on Mar 17, 2010 11:30 AM EDT up reply actions  

If the league is really serious about cleaning up the dirty stuff, they would review games and give out fines/ suspensions after the fact. I imagine the the ref’s association would be pissed but Allen deserved a couple of minutes for roughing. The fact that he “got away with it” because it was a blow out, or because the ref’s didn’t see it is not really relevant.

we're not gonna allow someone like Downie to go after him.

by Sct112 on Mar 17, 2010 11:41 AM EDT up reply actions  

or if they saw it then the goal negated the minor they would have given him.

Suspend Colin Campbell!

by snowburnt on Mar 17, 2010 11:46 AM EDT up reply actions  

Happened after the goal, I think it still would have been a penalty.

by psuscott1 on Mar 17, 2010 11:51 AM EDT up reply actions  

The left hook happened before the goal, the face into the ice happened after. Possibly the refs could have wrapped it all up into one act.

I honestly don’t know why I’m trying to defend them. I guess it just feels good to insert rationality into situations where none exists.

Suspend Colin Campbell!

by snowburnt on Mar 17, 2010 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions  

The play I was referring too, and the one that I think Rick was talking about, was after the goal. Allen put a forearm into the back of Laich’s head and slammed him into the ice beak first. Brooks didn’t seem the least bit pissed so it wasn’t a big deal I guess. But that play would not have been washed out by the goal if the refs had seen it.

we're not gonna allow someone like Downie to go after him.

by Sct112 on Mar 17, 2010 11:51 AM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, crap like that happens all the time without a penalty.

additionally it couldn’t have been a minor penalty because it happened after the whistle, it would’ve had to have been a major at a minimum. not that I don’t think it was deserving but I think refs are wary of handing out majors, especially in blowouts.

Suspend Colin Campbell!

by snowburnt on Mar 17, 2010 11:57 AM EDT up reply actions  

What Allen did was a little excessive, epeatedly driving a guy’s face to the ice is a little across the line.

That being said, I don’t want to end up at a point where every push and shove results in a minor.

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by Sombrero Guy on Mar 17, 2010 12:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

I wonder if Laich had come up with a nosebleed if they’d have called the roughing major…?

…IS there a roughing major?

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by IRockTheRed on Mar 18, 2010 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

Don’t think before/after has any bearing on minor/major. Re: Semin/Stillman.

by FFSEnough on Mar 17, 2010 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

I can’t find it now, but I remember reading not too long ago that you can’t have a minor penalty called after a stoppage, and a goal is a stoppage.

Suspend Colin Campbell!

by snowburnt on Mar 17, 2010 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

I just don’t think that is true. Think of all the times you see a minor penalty handed out for some sort of retaliation or scrum after the whistle.

Of all our iniquities ignorance may be the worst

by Killer_Carlson on Mar 17, 2010 5:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think he’s thinking of the extra penalties for anything that happens after a game is over.

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by Rob Parker on Mar 17, 2010 5:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

You almost never see minor penalties handed out for a scrum after the whistle unless it’s something that everyone on the ice is involved in.

Suspend Colin Campbell!

by snowburnt on Mar 17, 2010 11:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

Really? I see it pretty often. Sure, face washes and some shoving don’t get called, but if a couple guys are a little over exuberant the refs certainly aren’t afraid to give them roughing minors. They are usually matching though, so there is no PP. Look at when AO got hurt vs. Columbus. The penalties doled out to Chimera, Boll and AO were largely for post-whistle actions.

It’s also not uncommon for there to be an initial penalty call, then have some guy go after the initial offender after the whistle and even up the calls. These kinds of plays may make up a very small portion of minor penalties, but the fact of the matter is that refs are definitely allowed to give minors for penalties after the whistle.

Of all our iniquities ignorance may be the worst

by Killer_Carlson on Mar 18, 2010 1:33 AM EDT up reply actions  

I really wish I could remember what call was excused for that reasoning…It might have been during the olympics or maybe during the fight during the pens game when brooks orpik shoved pothier in and backstrom got a misconduct…but from the times that penalties have been called on those skirmishes the stuff starts before the whistle is blown and is often the reason that the whistle is blown.

Personally I feel like the stuff that happens around the net after a whistle can get real bad and is almost always excused.

Suspend Colin Campbell!

by snowburnt on Mar 18, 2010 7:25 AM EDT up reply actions  

You rule!

I wrote down the details last night when I saw it…glad you did the work on this! Great job.

by RedLife19 on Mar 17, 2010 12:08 PM EDT reply actions  

Ovi--A New Kind of Hockey Player

I wrote this long piece in the Clips this morning about the Ovi situation and I do think part of it is Ovi’s strength, but not quite in the way people perceive it. I believe that part of the problem is that Ovi is redefining the boundaries of how a hockey player can and should play the sport. He has a blend of speed, physicality, and playmaking finesse not really seen before.

On PreCaps Stretch made what I thought was a thought provoking comparison to the first time a basketball was dunked: how to refs handle it; is it a penalty or not? And the way the game of basketball was played was forever changed. IMO Ovi is having this kind of effect on hockey. But how do ruling bodies deal with players who are ahead of a sport in the way they play and in the way they are built? They don’t—at least not well. And I don’t think Campbell knows how to handle Ovi.

We are all coming up with similar hits/pushes/checks of this type happening in so many different games by all the teams, but most do not result in this kind of injury, penalty, or suspension. Or as Knuble said—this stuff is happening around Ovi.

For me it’s not where, how, and when the the push/hit/check was made by Ovi, but rather that a push/hit/check by most players does not have the same impact as one by Ovi. He is a wall, a beast, a force of nature. Eastern conference players, they know him and know that when he is on the ice bearing down on you when you have the puck be aware. But Western conference players know him more by reputation. So when a player of Brian Campbell’s elite skating and puck handling skills knows that this MVP player is bearing down on him, he decides to play the puck by reversing it instead of carrying it safely around the net. He doesn’t realize that a push/hit/check by Ovi is not like one by another player. Add in the other situational oddities and he is unfortunately hurt. I am not blaming Brain Campbell or Ovi, but rather I am trying to understand how such a weird situation can happen. A regular hockey play that turned into something that hurt another elite player without any intent or malice behind it.

However, I do believe that the key word for Ovi is not to “change” his game but rather to “calibrate” it. I do absolutely believe that an athlete of Ovi’s genius will be able to adjust his play to stay on that edge so that he will continue to bring to the game his hybrid of improvisational playmaking brilliance, brute physicality, and sheer will to score and win. Ovi will have to learn how to choose those moments better, to take into account players who don’t know his game first-hand or to be aware of potential situational ramifications. We all learn from experience and I have no doubt so too will Ovi.

By the time the Caps get the SC Finals, i expect Ovi to have already figured how to “calibrate” his game without changing a thing about what makes it so special.

by capsyoungguns on Mar 17, 2010 4:59 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

By the time the Caps get the SC Finals, i expect Ovi to have already figured how to "calibrate" his game without changing a thing about what makes it so special.

IMHO he shouldn’t change a thing for the playoffs, but only shift into that gear late into the regular season. In other words, he needn’t be calibrated for the playoffs all the time. He needs to re-find that “it’s only the regular season” setting.
Maybe that setting doesn’t exist.

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by red army line on Mar 17, 2010 5:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

I absolutely agree with you in that I don’t want Ovi to change his game. Taking his play to the edge is what makes it special. But I want him to ride the edge, not go over it. And to be better aware that not all players (this is what I meant by Western Conference players who know him more by reputation than first-hand experience) will do the standard play with him, that a player may choose to reverse the puck and not be prepared for the degree of a “hit/push/check” by him.

This is what I mean to calibrate or adjust. IMO he is simply stronger. He is often like a wall when he hits, so he needs to be more aware of when that might cause a problem. Pick his hits better and be aware that his hits are often stronger than most players. And yes do this for the entire playoffs.

by capsyoungguns on Mar 17, 2010 6:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

I wrote my comment very specifically for a reason as it weeds out minor plays like the one you’re highlighting above. If you skate with a player to the end boards and push him against the glass, injury is very unlikely to occur. Morrisonn, in that position, should know the hit is coming and be able to defend himself somewhat by bracing, against the boards, for impact.

The rule is written to allow for that, and officials have some leeway when it comes to these nuances.

Note the phrasing in what I said: “Look at the force with which [Ovechkin] heaves a player from behind into the end boards… that’s not a common occurrence.”

That spot at the goal line where Campbell got pushed is incredibly dangerous — a push from behind in that spot that knocks a player over will generally result in his head and neck taking the brunt of the fall. It often results in injury, and sometimes in paralysis (as unfortunately we see too often in Canadian minor hockey).

The force also matters. A violent push from behind, especially when skating toward the end boards, should always be penalized.

I agree with the call from officials on the ice, and I’m glad it was made. It was an unfortunate, dangerous play, and when those involve hitting from behind, I want the player kicked out of the game.

(As for the suspension, I think I’ve given up trying to make sense of their reasoning.)

Blogging on hockey at Globe on Hockey

by James Mirtle on Mar 17, 2010 5:01 PM EDT reply actions   3 recs

Just curious – why do you keep citing the “Checking from Behind” rule when it was called boarding?

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by J.P. on Mar 17, 2010 5:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

I believe it was called boarding improperly.

Often officials call boarding right away because calling a hit from behind is an automatic game misconduct. Things are moving quickly and they can have a difficult time determining what calls are immediately without consulting with other officials, etc.

We have the benefit of multiple viewings of the hit, which the referees do not, and can tell that it was in fact a hit from behind (a push from behind, to be more specific). It fits the description of the rule to a T.

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by James Mirtle on Mar 17, 2010 5:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

I believe it was called boarding improperly.

Right, but that it was called boarding by the guys on the ice at the time after a lengthy caucus should demonstrate the fact that reasonable minds could differ as to what the call should have been.

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by J.P. on Mar 18, 2010 6:45 AM EDT up reply actions  

Your arguments are logical. From a standpoint disconnected from recent NHL history, they make sense. The problem I have is that they don’t make sense in the context of how the NHL is currently called. You can say that a player should expect a hit from behind against the boards, and many of us agree, but that’s not enough. James Neal and Tuomo Ruutu were suspended for hitting guys from behind when they were right up against the glass. You can argue Neal didn’t see it coming, or that Tucker had already moved the puck, but the fact of the matter is that both of those kinds of hits are routine. If Dorsett doesn’t get up like he had one drink too many, and Tucker doesn’t leave on a stretcher, there is no call. The Ovechkin hit deserved more than 2 minutes, and 4 wasn’t an option, so 5 makes sense. With 5 comes the game. The 2 game suspension is superfluous given the way the NHL deals with these hits, and leaves nothing but the conclusion that the injury is the reason he got punished so heavily. That is bullshit.

You can say that it’s more dangerous to hit further from the boards. Sometimes you are correct. Sometimes you aren’t. Bergeron, Dorsett, Tucker, and many others have been injured or knocked out be being driven into the glass from close distance. Hits from behind are from behind regardless of distance from the boards. And Campbell wasn’t skating toward the end boards.

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by Rob Parker on Mar 17, 2010 5:23 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

I’m not even arguing for the suspension and I never was. I just want those hits penalized with a game misconduct. It’s just too dangerous a play to shove someone from behind at the goal line.

Making sense of what’s a suspension and what’s not these days is getting absurd. If you guys are outraged on that front, that’s totally fine by me.

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by James Mirtle on Mar 17, 2010 5:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

^^^^This is the explanation/elaboration I’ve been yearning for from you. I don’t think there are but a few people on this site that would say the hit itself didn’t warrant the penalty. The gross majority of us find the suspension to be ludicrous.

by Yoshietree on Mar 17, 2010 7:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ted coming out against the misconduct was what surprised me… I guess maybe it shouldn’t.

I can live with or without a suspension. My guess is he got it because of his previous misdeeds.

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by James Mirtle on Mar 17, 2010 8:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ted coming out against the misconduct is Ted coming out against the suspension that you can live with or without is Ted the businessman protecting his brand in whom he’s got basically an entire franchise invested. That’s not to say that he doesn’t have a principled belief that the hit did not warrant five and a game, but to be shocked that an owner doesn’t want to see the face of his franchise dragged through the mud as he has been (see Spector, Dater, etc.) isn’t realistic, IMO, especially when he’s seen that very player victimized by a similar hit (Adams) without a penalty and without a review.

Ted Leonsis, as an NHL owner, is a steward of the game, in some respect, but he’s a franchisee and Alex Ovechkin’s boss first and foremost.

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by J.P. on Mar 17, 2010 8:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

The unfortunate part of that, in my view, is that it misleads many into thinking that wasn’t a serious offence. It trivializes it.

But you’re right — it’s not his place to be blind and call penalties penalties. I’d like to think if I was in Ted’s spot, I’d say “Alex made a mistake but doesn’t deserve a suspension,” but maybe that’s naive.

Unfortunately, it’ll lead to some coverage of Leonsis like this — but I doubt he cares.

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by James Mirtle on Mar 17, 2010 9:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

Morrisonn, in that position, should know the hit is coming and be able to defend himself somewhat by bracing, against the boards, for impact.

Couldn’t the same exact thing be said about Campbell? Like I said above, it is up to Ovechkin to figure out a way NOT to shove Campbell when he peels away from the boards, and I am not placing blame on Campbell, but the entire purpose of this post was to illustrate what happens the vast majority of the time a forward chases a defender and puck towards his attacking goal line.

I’m not sure why Campbell didn’t go to the boards to brace himself, but it looked to me like Ovechkin was expecting just that, and didn’t react quickly enough when the situation changed.

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by Sombrero Guy on Mar 17, 2010 7:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ovie hit him too early — Campbell couldn’t brace against the boards, he was thrown off balance long before he got there. It wouldn’t matter which direction he went — left, right or straight ahead — he was going down.

It’s just a play where A.O. has to hold up or have better position on him (i.e. a shoulder to shoulder hit).

It happens. I don’t even think it’s that dirty. The look on Alex’s face afterward makes it seem like he’d love to have that one back (obviously).

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by James Mirtle on Mar 17, 2010 7:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

In the above play Repik is clearly pushing on Morrisonn before they cross the goal line, just like AO was with Campbell. But Morrisonn is bracing himself better/doesn’t hit a rut, so he doesn’t get knocked off balance the way Campbell does (look at the first screenshot and imagine what the second would have looked like if Morrisonn’s left skate toe picked the way Campbell’s right skate did). The plays aren’t identical, but I don’t think they are as far apart as you suggest.

Of all our iniquities ignorance may be the worst

by Killer_Carlson on Mar 18, 2010 1:39 AM EDT up reply actions  

Oh, and welcome to all of James’s Twitter minions – glad you could join us and make him feel more comfortable here.

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by J.P. on Mar 17, 2010 5:20 PM EDT reply actions  

There’s not a single comment from someone here via Twitter.

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by James Mirtle on Mar 17, 2010 5:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

Can we change that to “minion” now?

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by James Mirtle on Mar 17, 2010 8:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

Nope – he’s one of ours.

Guess we’re lucky PPP’s crowd is more interested in pints on St. Pat’s (as we all should be) than sticking with this subject.

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by J.P. on Mar 17, 2010 8:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

I’m not with them. :-)

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by James Mirtle on Mar 17, 2010 9:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

How do you have a conversation when those who seem to have already made up their minds about Ovechkin used charged verbs like “rammed,” “slammed,” or “heaved?”

I use more force “heaving” a bag of groceries into the back of my truck. Unless we’re going to use “hockey physics” and discount the momentum a player such as Campbell was contributing by skating in that direction in the first place.

If you've read this far...seek help.

by ThePeerless on Mar 17, 2010 6:04 PM EDT reply actions   3 recs

Eh, I’m not sure calling it a “nudge” or a “push” and downplaying Ovechkin’s strength biases the conversation any less, it’s just in a different direction. Ovechkin clearly held back a bit, but it certainly was not an insignificant push.

Of all our iniquities ignorance may be the worst

by Killer_Carlson on Mar 18, 2010 1:44 AM EDT up reply actions  

That’s why I like calling it a hit. Leaves it vague and unemotional. Watch the clip and figure it out for yourself.

I agree totally about the stupidity of the average person. Horrifyingly, nearly 50% of people are even stupider!

by Bman21212 on Mar 18, 2010 1:48 AM EDT up reply actions  

Bingo. If violent, forceful words are used to describe an act that is what people will see. Call it a bump, jostle, or a nudge and we’d be having a very different conversation.

by Gin and Tonic on Mar 17, 2010 10:05 PM EDT reply actions  

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Round 2 Bold Predictions: Let's Review!
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Braden Holtby's Family Gets More Interesting By The Minute
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Win Tonight
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Alex Semin: Gettin' Paid (With Fancy Charts!)

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OT Hockey 5/25
Will lack of national discussion cause NBA, NHL playoffs to suffer?
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Caps Signed Hockey Sticks
Dean Evason talks wristers in the May 28, 2012 issue of ESPN The Mag. (Click here for a larger version)
Semin's Agent Says Sasha's Uninterested in Staying
"My legs felt good and I wanted to be dangerous with the puck every time,"...
Oh well. Season's over... (via Mr. I, via @bruce_arthur)
NYC game 7 viewing
Game 7 in Manila?

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