Alex Ovechkin On His Suspension
"I am very sorry that Brian was injured and I hope he is able to return to his team soon. NHL hockey is a physical game. We all play hard every time we are on the ice and have battles each shift in every game we play so we can do our jobs and win. As players we must accept responsibility for our actions and I am no different but I did not intend to injure Brian and that is why I was disappointed with the NHL’s decision yesterday. Every time I have the honor to play for my team, I will continue to do what I have done since I was taught to play. I will play hard, play with passion and play with respect for my teammates, opponents and fans. I look forward to returning to my team and doing everything I can to be the best player I can be." - Release
4 months ago
Stephen Pepper
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Key quote for me is:
“I will continue to do what I have done since I was taught to play.”
Good. Glad to hear.
Get used to more suspensions then.
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Are you actually suggesting that NHL supplemental discipline is predictable?
Or only with regards to Ovechkin?
by Stephen Pepper on Mar 16, 2010 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Nope
I’m saying that the spotlight on Ovechkin is going to get brighter with regard to the kinds of plays that he has occassionally made and that he sees no problem with.
And it won’t be a conspiracy when he gets dinged next.
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Can you prove that it won’t be a conspiracy? No. Therefore it is.
Checkmate, my friend.
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by J.P. on Mar 16, 2010 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Japers!
/Seinfeld’d
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Pronger’d, don’t you mean? To the extent that AO has been slotted into the Pronger category, i.e., a suspendable superstar?
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by Battenburg Baron on Mar 16, 2010 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions
tinypic.com
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by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Mar 16, 2010 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Well
He had none before this year right?
And now he’s at 2 and saying he’s not going to change anything about the way he plays hockey despite being involved in more than a handful of unpunished acts that could have drawn disciplinary action.
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if the Refs hadn’t blown it by giving him 5 and a game for the clean Kaleta hit, Ovechkin likely wouldn’t have been suspended for the knee on Gleason, and this would be the first suspension.
Because now I can justify browsing and commenting during the work day with the argument that I am promoting my business.
by Sombrero Guy on Mar 16, 2010 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions
That’s IF they even suspended him for it.
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I think it’s the other way around. I think this is the one he doesn’t get tagged for if Kaleta isn’t dumb. Gleason was knee-on-knee, way more blatant suspension territory.
by DrinkingPartner on Mar 16, 2010 2:05 PM EDT up reply actions
I took the suspension on the Gleason hit as being a “you got 2 game misconducts in a short period of time” kind of suspension. Since Gleason wasn’t hurt, I doubt that one play in a vaccum leads to a suspension.
Because now I can justify browsing and commenting during the work day with the argument that I am promoting my business.
by Sombrero Guy on Mar 16, 2010 2:40 PM EDT up reply actions
but then again, with the NHL disciplinary office, who the hell knows.
Because now I can justify browsing and commenting during the work day with the argument that I am promoting my business.
by Sombrero Guy on Mar 16, 2010 2:40 PM EDT up reply actions
I think it does simply because of the violence (there was violence) of that hit.
by DrinkingPartner on Mar 16, 2010 2:44 PM EDT up reply actions
I’ll take the occasional, arguably trumped up suspension over a tentative, ineffective, boring player. Ovechkin would not be the most dynamic player in the league if he changed his game and stopped finishing his checks.
I disagree with the notion that he’s a dirty player, but I suppose I don’t mind hearing people bleat about it as long as he is still playing with passion and reckless (omgz!) abandon. Do we really want him to turn into Jagr?
I’ll take the occasional, arguably trumped up suspension over a tentative, ineffective, boring player.
Thing is, it’s not mutually exclusive for him to play the way he does and not lay the occassional dirty hit. He’s not a dirty player but he’s made some dirty decisions.
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Thing is, it’s not mutually exclusive for him to play the way he does and not lay the occassional dirty hit.
Theoretically speaking that’s true. But I don’t think it’s that simple in application. If he had perfect decision making processes at high speed, he’d be totally unstoppable on the ice. He goes for plays that he might not be able to make, right up to the edge and sometimes he misses. The plays that he just barely makes are what separates him from the rest of the league, so saying that he can take the dirty decisions out of his game and continue to play the way he does isn’t useful.
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by Knee high to a duck on Mar 16, 2010 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, speed is an issue but he also makes those kinds of decisions all of the time with regards to passing and shooting so why is it hard for him to do the same when he sees an opponents’ numbers or knee?
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He makes those decisions all the time with shooting and passing and he usually gets them right. He doesn’t make the right decision 100% of the time in those categories either and has made more than a thousand hits in his career. I’m not sure why he’d have a higher success ratio making hitting decisions as opposed to puck decisions.
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by Knee high to a duck on Mar 16, 2010 2:00 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
It’s also a bit of a different kind of decision. You line yourself up to make a hit moving at 20mph it’s a little bit harder to get out of the way when the other player does something out of the ordinary a split second before you hit them. Moving the puck is something he’s demonstrated that he can do in any position, on the ice, in the air, with some guy sitting on him…
Suspend Colin Campbell!
by snowburnt on Mar 16, 2010 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Mike Knuble said that he thinks it’s possible for Ovie to learn to make better decisions. I’m just not buying the idea that if he takes some of these late, questionable hits out of his arsenal that it’ll make him less effective. I wish he would listen to his teammate and try to make that adjustment.
by Kolzilla on Mar 16, 2010 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
That’s a good response by a current NHLer
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I’m sick of the word dirty being thrown about. You make his actions sound premeditated. Dirty decisions? No. Decisions that led to dirty results, very few.
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I didnt plan on falling in that mud, guess I’m still clean!
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by JaredFromLondon on Mar 16, 2010 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions
i didnt plan to but I intended to?
logical sense not you make
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by JaredFromLondon on Mar 16, 2010 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions
If you don’t intend to get dirty, and you trip and fall in the mud, your mom doesn’t get mad at you for messing up your clothes and you don’t get grounded. It’s as simple as that.
by DrinkingPartner on Mar 16, 2010 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions
doesnt make me less dirty
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by JaredFromLondon on Mar 16, 2010 3:33 PM EDT up reply actions
This is a horrible analogy.
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it isnt the best (and was only half serious) but just because you didnt mean to be dirty doesnt make the play clean
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by JaredFromLondon on Mar 16, 2010 3:35 PM EDT up reply actions
But dirty play implies intent.
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how so?
thats not how I interpret the meaning
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by JaredFromLondon on Mar 16, 2010 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Dirty to me implies that you did something knowingly.
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I’d call that malicious.
See the Tucker VS Peca hit from the playoffs a while back, I loved Darcy Tucker but that low bridge was a dirty dirty hit (legal though)
Did he intend to shatter every bone in the lower half of Pecas body? probably not. but its still dirty
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by JaredFromLondon on Mar 16, 2010 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions
We could argue semantics all day.
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yep
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by JaredFromLondon on Mar 16, 2010 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions
I kind of agree with Jared here. A singular hit can be a dirty play without the player himself being a dirty player. Shea Weber’s elbow on some German in the WCs is an example of this.
A dirty play does not always imply intent.
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by Chris Burton on Mar 16, 2010 3:38 PM EDT up reply actions
I think we should clarify intent. Does anyone here think Ovechkin is a sociopath who wants to hurt people? I don’t think so.
But at the same time Ovechkin’s poor decision certainly doesn’t make me think he’s too worried about hurting Campbell.
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He couldn’t have foreseen what happened, I think is more the point.
by DrinkingPartner on Mar 16, 2010 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions
pushing someone from behind into the boards….not a lot else can happen, he is pretty much 95% going to go face first into the yellow line
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by JaredFromLondon on Mar 16, 2010 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions
He’s played enough hockey to know that shoving a guy from behind into the boards has a pretty good chance of not turning out well.
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I disagree it was from behind – that’s our current chasm.
by DrinkingPartner on Mar 16, 2010 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Um— where was the hit from if not behind? I don’t think he turned enough to make it NOT behind, but I’ve only seen it once.
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by Chris Burton on Mar 16, 2010 3:46 PM EDT up reply actions
It looked to me that AO caught his shoulder as Campbell was turning to face the boards. PPP, or Chemmy, or DGB (sorry, guys, don’t remember which) said that AO’s hand was on his numbers, and concluded it was from behind, with which I disagreed because the other half of AO wasn’t behind Campbell (but beside his left shoulder), which is necessary, to me, for it to be from behind.
by DrinkingPartner on Mar 16, 2010 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Me
It looks to my eye that his right hand is right in his numbers when he pushes him.
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Not sure I buy the distinction there. Someone who makes concious decisions to do dirty things is dirty, IMO.
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Well, the distinction, in my eyes, is that guys like Matt Cooke make those decisions looking to hurt whereas Ovechkin does them out of momentary stupidity.
Basically, I like him and don’t want to think of him as dirty.
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Brian Campbell on his way behind the net and hitting a divot at full speed momentary stupidity does not make.
by DrinkingPartner on Mar 16, 2010 2:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, let’s stop pretending that ‘toe-pick’ or the ‘divot’ had anything to do with that injury.
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Or let’s not. Watch the rotation — his body turns back into the direction that Ovechkin is pushing, the direct opposite of what you’d expect if he didn’t have some kind of lever underneath of him. What happened is implausible in the extreme without some kind of block under his foot.
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by Knee high to a duck on Mar 16, 2010 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Yep, didn’t happen, okay.
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He hit a divot, yes. Would he have been injured as badly or gone into the boards with as much force because of it if Ovie doesn’t touch him? It’s a hypothetical but most likely not.
Certainly not enough to begin trying to absolve Ovie of full responsibility.
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Certainly not enough to begin trying to absolve Ovie of full responsibility.
No one is trying to totally absolve Ovechkin, it should have been a penalty. Suspending him based on injury that was incurred at least partially because Campbell hit a divot doesn’t make sense, though.
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by Knee high to a duck on Mar 16, 2010 2:16 PM EDT up reply actions
What I am saying is that hitting the divot as he was slowing down wouldn’t have left him with a broken clavicle and broken ribs.
It’s 100% on Ovie.
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No, it’s not.
Basic physics. PART of it is on Ovi, and please, if you’re gonna use the guy’s nickname, spell it the way he does?
O-V-I.
Anyway, with the whole force = mass * acceleration thing… yes, he got a push from Ovechkin and maybe he avoids the divot if he doesn’t. But maybe he doesn’t avoid it, and just falls down on his own.
We never see THAT in a hockey game, do we?
Yeah, he hit the boards harder than he would have, but if he hadn’t hit the divot, he probably would not have hit the boards at all.
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Pfft spell his name the way he does then.
But back on point: he might not have hit the divot if Александр Михайлович Овечкин does not hit him.
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by PPP on Mar 16, 2010 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
Might, might, might.
That’s a lot of “what if’s” you’re playing there, PPP.
And fine. But Александр Михайлович Овечкин did not aim for the divot that Campbell hit. He didn’t go out and try to push him into it. He just pushed him.
Was it badly timed? YES.
Did it deserve a call? YES.
Was it 100% Ovechkin’s fault that Campbell got broken on the play? NO.
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Yeah
Just as many what ifs the other way.
Except that’s the way it played out and we know the result.
“he just pushed him.” when he was in a dangerous position.
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Wait a minute...
So was Downie’s play less dirty and less worthy of punishment than Ovie’s? By your logic, the fact that Crosby was fine makes that play more acceptable than the one that resulted in Campbell’s injuries.
While the reality is that the result of the play colors the punishment, it shouldn’t for the above reason. Ovie was told that he’s getting two games for a reckless play without intent to injure because Campbell is out for the season (and history). Downie intentionally tries to hurt someone (and there is NO other explanation for that play) but he failed so scott free?
It’s apparent you think the NHL’s disciplinary system is a joke as much as I do, but I’m not sure where you want it to go. Which may be the problem with them. Maybe they just have never agreed on standards by which to judge plays and that’s why we get the randomness.
by Fallen 13 on Mar 16, 2010 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
By your logic, the fact that Crosby was fine makes that play more acceptable than the one that resulted in Campbell’s injuries.
No, it doesn’t make it more acceptable but it makes it more understandable about why he wasn’t punished.
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Why?
It was an illegal, dangerous hit. It should have been punished. At the very LEAST, Downie should have gone to the box for tripping, but he didn’t even get that.
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and a $1,000 fine certainly isn’t going to act as a serious deterrent on Downie. In no way did the punishment for his actions fit what he did.
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The huge suspension he got for the McAmmond hit didn’t teach him shit either.
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So repeat offender, dirtier play, no injury… no suspension. It’s pretty clear what the dispositive factor is for the NHL, and that’s what has me most pissed off.
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by Fehr and Balanced on Mar 16, 2010 5:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Because the NHL’s disciplinary system takes into account the injury.
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No, it doesn’t make it more acceptable but it makes it more understandable about why he wasn’t punished.
No, no, no and thats a big part of why Campbell’s job is way harder than it should be. Injury is not the sole reason nor should it be a major factor when dealing supplemental discipline. What Downie did to Crosby was dirty, intended to hurt, a slew foot, and was a clear retaliation for Stamkos getting laid out. That should be suspension worthy every time regardless of injury.
Now I’m not saying injury shouldn’t be a factor but it seems that in this case it was the predetermining factor. That hit happens almost every game and doesn’t result in injury but this is the one special snowflake that gets called? No I don’t buy that.
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I spell it Ovie. Calm down.
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Loosen up.
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by Fehr and Balanced on Mar 16, 2010 5:58 PM EDT up reply actions
I doubt he hits the divot if AO doesn’t touch him: he was pushed into it. But AO should not be fined and suspended because of a hockey play.
by DrinkingPartner on Mar 16, 2010 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Not a hockey play.
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Absolutely a hockey play. It’s a forecheck gone wrong.
by DrinkingPartner on Mar 16, 2010 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions
late
But maybe you subscribe to Blanche’s theory that it’s “better late than pregnant”
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Who doesn’t?!
But that’s not much of an argument.
by DrinkingPartner on Mar 16, 2010 2:44 PM EDT up reply actions
It’s hockey play that turned out illegal. There’s a difference.
by DrinkingPartner on Mar 16, 2010 2:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Siiiiigh.
Semantics.
The PLANNED/INTENDED play was not illegal.
What HAPPENED was.
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by IRockTheRed on Mar 16, 2010 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Who cares if what Ovechkin planned was legal?
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Those divining his intent in their absolution of crucifixion of his action.
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by J.P. on Mar 16, 2010 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Please
We haven’t even started building the cross.
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Wasn’t referring to you. But you may be able to see them from your house. Like Sarah Palin and Russia.
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Is it fall in here? I’m seeing a lot of leafs!
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by Ovechwin on Mar 16, 2010 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Hopefully they’ll be back here in April, too.
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We’ll see >:(
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My house has a terrible view :(
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He’s not responsible for bad luck. He’s not responsible for bad ice. He’s not responsible for other players turning their bodies.
by DrinkingPartner on Mar 16, 2010 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
He is responsible for pushing players from behind into the boards.
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Which was why he was penalized in game for it. You penalize the intent, not the injury. It was questionable hit in and of itself, enough to call something on. The fact that Campbell went down so awkwardly had nothing to do with Ovechkin’s intent. If he had wanted to lay waste to him he wouldn’t have let him know he was coming.
This is just the silly discipline situation that happens in pro sports. There’s no reason to penalize the injury and all the reason in the world to penalize the intent.
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I agree that the play should be punished not the injury.
Shoving a guy from behind into the end boards is a dangerous play and deserves at least a two game suspension.
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if they’re going to start suspending people for hits like Ovechkins there’s not going to be much of a league left after about a week
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You’re not attempting to say that what Ovechkin did is acceptable or common, right?
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I don’t think any of us are. Just that the play he was trying to make is common but was badly mistimed, and with all this backlash against Ovie, it comes across as blind defense of Ovie when it’s just rebutting the same arguments over and over again in various places on the internet
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by red army line on Mar 16, 2010 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions
It’s common enough I saw it at least twice that same game. It’s common enough I will see it several more times a game. It’s common enough that someone like Babcock was a bit surprised about the suspension.It’s common enough that when I see it against a Caps player I won’t be pissed about a penalty not being called if we’re not due one.
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by sydtron on Mar 16, 2010 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
It is common.
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by Fehr and Balanced on Mar 16, 2010 6:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Counterpoint: had he not hit that divot he probably wouldn’t have been thrown into the boards. It would have been a standard “hockey play”
Suspend Colin Campbell!
by snowburnt on Mar 16, 2010 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
But the instigator was still Ovie’s push
/spell it how I want to :P
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So if Campbell stays upright and he rolls into the glass like in 95% of those checks (that don’t get called in game) does Ovie deserve a penalty? Because if it’s an illegal action he took, then he should. If it isn’t, he shouldn’t. The result of the action shouldn’t make a difference.
Now you can argue that those checks should count as boarding but unless a guy is crunched directly face first into the glass, they don’t call those.
And you’re back arguing that because the NHL screws up discipline in other cases that dirty hits should be absolved on that basis.
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I’m arguing about the standard as it’s called in game, not the supplementary discipline. (though I’ve done that in previous posts :P) Just curious if you want penalties to be called on all the plays where a defensman is rubbed out late on the glass, or just the ones that result in injury.
Every hit like this should be punished.
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But that’s what we base our entire perception on, right? Precedent? If this happens every single shift is it even an issue?
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by red army line on Mar 16, 2010 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions
What Ovechkin did doesn’t happen every single shift.
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But it happens multiple times a game, and multiple times more in the same game, with no penalty call.
by DrinkingPartner on Mar 16, 2010 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions
no it doesnt
something that might be similar does
but not that
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by JaredFromLondon on Mar 16, 2010 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Watch the Parise and Semin hits from last night and the CHI game, respectively, and tell me how they’re different.
by DrinkingPartner on Mar 16, 2010 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions
If this happens every single shift
Totally a hypothetical. If every situation like this is penalized with a major, misconduct, and 2 gamer, then there’s no issue.
I misphrased the last part. I was implying that if it happens every shift, then it won’t be penalized all the time, hence, we don’t deem it worthy of suspension.
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by red army line on Mar 16, 2010 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Except if they consistently don’t punish the same hit in other contexts, maybe they screwed up this one. There are far more hits like this that went unpunished than there are hits that were punished.
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by Fehr and Balanced on Mar 16, 2010 6:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Absolutely not. Savard was 100% on Cooke, because it was entirely Cooke’s actions. There was no mitigating factor, like a divot or a rut, that contributed to why Savard was concussed. This is a different chain of causality.
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by Knee high to a duck on Mar 16, 2010 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Do you honestly think anyone else wouldn’t have finished that check? I mean, come on. “Oh man, he got rid of the puck, I better try my hardest to veer off so I don’t get in trouble!”
You start it, you finish it… and you pretty much have to, going at that speed. Not saying it was a clean hit, but hitting the divot did pretty obviously make it worse, and that was not something either of them could control.
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Like I joked last night, yes, I KNOW other players would peel off because I watch 20 of them do it 3 times a week.
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It’s enough to absolve him of full responsibility for injuring him, yes. There was no intent, and it wasn’t a stupid play by any means. Hell, that same exact play (with no consequences) continued to happen throughout the game.
by DrinkingPartner on Mar 16, 2010 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Simulation
Sounds to me like this situation is simulatable via computer. It would be interesting to see the possible different results, including the role a divot would play. But I dont have simulation skills. Maybe someone else does?
He does share SOME responsibility, yes. But not ALL of it.
Had that play gone off as-planned, both would have gone around behind the net, and no penalty – OK, maybe two for interference, but since the puck had only been played a second or so before, unlikely.
The ice is a factor, but not the only one.
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Nah, if Campbell doesn’t fall, there’s no call whatsoever.
by DrinkingPartner on Mar 16, 2010 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions
No pretending necessary: AO didn’t push Soup hard enough to cause his skate to fly out from under him the way it did when he fell.
by DrinkingPartner on Mar 16, 2010 2:13 PM EDT up reply actions
With the injury? Maybe. It’s a hypothetical. With the illegality of the play? No.
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by red army line on Mar 16, 2010 2:13 PM EDT up reply actions
I think “momentary stupidity” is recklessness, whereas “dirty” requires a bit more premeditation, but whatever.
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by J.P. on Mar 16, 2010 2:10 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Yeah
I agree with that.
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Agreed...
Reckless Players: Alex Ovechkin, Al Iafrate, Tiger Williams,
Dirty Players: Bobby Clarke, Darcy Tucker, Claude Lemieux
Let's go Caps!
I agree with you. Momentary stupidity is not the same as waiting for players to become vulnerable and then dropping a kill shot. I think that’s what Cooke does, and I’ve never seen AO do anything like that.
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by Fehr and Balanced on Mar 16, 2010 5:56 PM EDT up reply actions
I think dirty implies intent to injure. Of the top of my head I can’t think of any of Ovi hits where he was intending to end someone season.
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by SeattleCapsFan on Mar 16, 2010 2:09 PM EDT up reply actions
there’s a difference between a reckless hit and a dirty hit, which is intent. if it’s ‘dirty’ then he is trying to injure where if he is ‘reckless’ he just isn’t careful enough. I would say Ovi can be reckless but is never dirty.
by jstrong on Mar 16, 2010 3:07 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I would say the difference between reckless and dirty has a lot to do with whose sweater you’re wearing.
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by Chemmy on Mar 16, 2010 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Wait.
So you’re saying people are biased for their own teams? That can’t be right…
and Hi.
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Yup. If that was Byfuglien on Green, it’s a dirty hit. If it’s AO on Campbell, it’s reckless. If it’s Neil on Kessel, it’s dirty. If it’s anyone on Neil, it’s reckless (and probably well-deserved). Etc.
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If it’s anyone on Neil, it’s reckless a public service
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by ThePeerless on Mar 16, 2010 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
You’re a Leafs fan, yeh? Watch Koci on Green; Ovechkin on Campbell. Let me know if you can somehow divine a difference between those two boarding infractions.
Right
It just means they got the first one wrong.
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Which is wherein the frustration lies, especially since Cooke was let off the hook precisely because they got the first one wrong.
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by J.P. on Mar 16, 2010 3:14 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Not much excuse for the league itself to mess it up. I can understand the refs on the ice, but the league has time to review/schedule hearings, etc, so no excuse for these inconsistencies.
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by red army line on Mar 16, 2010 3:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Cooke’s hit was dirty but legal. Until the NHL makes a rule against headshots what do you do?
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You can call him under “intent to injure.”
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No
Hockey Operations told the Satellite Hot Stove on CBC that you cannot use the rule that way. I thought it was a good solution but apparently the intent (oh the irony) is that that rule (21) has to be applied to an actual penalty (tripping, kneeing, etc).
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Well, bugger that. They should change the rule book, then.
That’s just STUPID.
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Yeah
I think it was dumb because it’s an easy out for them to do the right thing but here we are.
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NHL horsebleep
Unsportsmanlike conduct, or whatever they used to suspend Avery. It’s the boldest kind of lameassery for the league to pretend they have no enforcement tool (I use the term advisedly) that would fit Cooke’s assault on Savard.
by redlineblue on Mar 16, 2010 3:25 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
And, as we’ve noted, God forbid the NHL interrupt their perfect track record of getting calls right. I mean FUCK, if you are ever going to get a call “wrong” shouldn’t it be the Cooke hit?
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by Fehr and Balanced on Mar 16, 2010 6:28 PM EDT up reply actions
there’s a GM in the league who certainly thinks those sorts of headshots can be called illegal already. From today’s Globe and Mail:
The GM said the league does have the duty to protect players from head hunters. He said hits like the recent ones that caused a large outcry around the NHL and from the public can be dealt with in the short-term with existing rules and supplemental discipline.
"The [NHL] hockey operations department can issue suspensions and the referees can call intent-to-injure [major] penalties," the GM said.
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I wonder who that was because Pierre Lebrun (I think) got a very different message from hockey operations
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Yeah
And I agree with that part 100%.
But the rest (“Push”/“divot”/“Play happens 100 times a game”/“Hockey people agree with us”/“He’s too strong!”) is just excuse making.
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I think some of them are mitigating factors on a bad hit. There’s no excuse for the hit itself. But there are factors that make the result of it worse than it otherwise might be.
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by J.P. on Mar 16, 2010 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
I don’t care that Campbell was injured. Ovechkin shoved a vulnerable player from behind which is a defenseless act on his part.
He deserves two games whether Campbell broke his shoulder or just broke a nail.
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You think if there is no injury there is no suspension?
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That’s not even a penalty if he doesn’t fall (ad nauseum).
by DrinkingPartner on Mar 16, 2010 3:24 PM EDT up reply actions
And I’m fine with that opinion – penalize the hit, not the result. You’d hand out a stiffer penalty than I would, but I certainly see where you’re coming from.
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I could live with that as well… if it wasn’t a rule-change midstream. Right now AO is not being suspended for “a hit from behind.” That’s simply not true. He’s being suspended because the hit from behind resulted in an injury. (And even that is unclear and inconsistent. Right Ales?)
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by Fehr and Balanced on Mar 16, 2010 6:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Only difference between our justification/excuses/analysis/reasoning behind our opinions and CC’s appears to be that he has a title and we don’t.
by Gin and Tonic on Mar 16, 2010 4:02 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
The speed of the play being a lot lower in Green’s case is the first thing that sticks out to me.
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Which means Koci had a lot more time to consider consequences, right?
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by Knee high to a duck on Mar 16, 2010 3:14 PM EDT up reply actions
given how long it took him to lumber across the ice, yeah, should have had lots of time to consider the illegality of his actions.
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And that AO didn’t drive Campbell into the boards or lead with a shoulder.
Killer_Carlson and Steckel Me Elmo are like brothers to me. And when I say brothers I don't mean like actual brothers. I mean it like how black people use it, which is more meaningful, I think.
by Fehr and Balanced on Mar 16, 2010 6:32 PM EDT up reply actions
The issue then is the more suspensions, the longer the punishment. It’s not just going to be 1-3 games here and there. If he’s a continual offender, then the suspensions should grow in severity (at least in theory).
Fair enough. We’ll see what happens, but when it comes to disciplinary measures in the NHL, it’s all entirely theoretical at this point, eh?
Yes
And you should be worried since it’s clear the NHL has a vendetta against the Caps and Ovechkin.
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Step 2: Stir it around…
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Take away Ovechkin's aggression and passion
And you take away a large part of his efficacy.
Certainly more than the occasional 2 game suspension would sap him (and the team) of.
Leave in his wrist shot
and you have Dany Heatley!
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Id rather have Alex Ovechkin
And all the good and bad that comes with him.
Ovechkin isn’t a total douche.
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by Chris Burton on Mar 16, 2010 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Maybe he means he’s going to go do it in the KHL. Sooner or later he’s going to get tired of being dumped on continually by the holier than thou Canadian hockey establishment.
Yeah
That’s it.
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You don’t think there could be a time when he gets tired of being public enemy #1? This isn’t wrestling. He’e being villified beyond all perspective while guys like Downie get off with just a fine. Sooner or later, that can start to weigh on you. It would me.
by b.orr4 on Mar 16, 2010 1:51 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
No
I don’t. He’s far from public enemy # 1 btw.
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OK, I’ll bite. Aside from Cooke, who’s really a nobody, what other high profile player elicits such strong dislike among the fans across the league.
Actually, I dislike Crosby because he has all the personality of a block of tofu. I admire him greatly as a player.
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actually, I dislike Crosby because when his real personality peaks out from behind the tofu persona his handlers insist he present to the world, it isn’t pretty.
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And yet, the hated of Crosby doesn’t have the same dark undertones (overtones?).
(Yes, I know about the avatar hounding - just pretend mine is invisible.)
And that’s without getting into the homophobic remarks that are nowhere near as prevalent about Ovie.
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Because AO scores some major tail. W00t!
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by J.P. on Mar 16, 2010 2:10 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
…and is very public about liking it, too!
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Has his own place, too.
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by jordanDC on Mar 16, 2010 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Those are all fairly tame.
“Menacing” “posse” “caveman” “reckless” “out of control” “cheap shot artist” “no concern or respect for his opponents” “some one needs to take him out…karma” “Ovie has a personal vendetta” “he’s a predator” “he’s violent” “he has anger management issues” “aggressive” “he uses dirty antics” “dirty weasel” “gutless” “nasty” “cowardly” “hit-and-run artist”
And that doesn’t even touch on the xenophobic comments.
(Yes, I know about the avatar hounding - just pretend mine is invisible.)
The majority of those apply to Crosby and I see your xenophobic remarks and raise you homophobic remarks.
They both get shit on by certain fans but they also get way more support.
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The homophobic remarks are disturbing, but they don’t make me fear for Crosby’s life. They just make me want to dump detergent over my brain.
Xenophobia can also impact other foreign players.
(Yes, I know about the avatar hounding - just pretend mine is invisible.)
I think we can all agree that this takes the cake:
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by J.P. on Mar 16, 2010 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Yeah
Those guys are special. Not to mention the dozens of fans that took their pictures with them.
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One of those guys actually read up on the history of blackface and posted an “I fucked up I’m really sorry” apology on TorontoMike.com just fyi.
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RDS
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Look at jersey sales. Look at attendance and media attention and autograph seekers on the road.
AO may be public enemy #1, but he’s also public fave #1.
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by J.P. on Mar 16, 2010 2:00 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Crosby
Piece of cake.
Oh, and Bertuzzi, Avery, Ott, Cooke, Neil, Phaneuf, and on and on.
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Maybe people in Canada care about Neil and Phaneuf..
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The entire Philadelphia Flyers, Donald Brashear, etc.
Point is, the ‘hate’ for Ovechkin does not exist anywhere near “Public enemy #1” status outside of Pittsburgh.
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Well, Chicago now that he hurt Brian Campbell on a dirty hit.
But fuck Buffalo, so 10 fans hate him. The love for him in Toronto basically cancels out half of the league.
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See, there you go being an arrogant Leafs fan again. You literally think your fan base is as important as half the league.
Killer_Carlson and Steckel Me Elmo are like brothers to me. And when I say brothers I don't mean like actual brothers. I mean it like how black people use it, which is more meaningful, I think.
by Fehr and Balanced on Mar 16, 2010 6:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Really? I’m not aware of many other players that are booed every time they touch the puck in every arena in the conference like Ovie is. It happens to Crosby too, but he has Canada on his side.
by grapejoos on Mar 16, 2010 3:24 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I’m not aware of many other players that are booed every time they touch the puck in every arena in the conference like Ovie is.
That is demonstrably bullshit.
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by PPP on Mar 16, 2010 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Chris Pronger.
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AO is often booed in arenas that leave me wondering, “What the hell did he ever do to them?” But again, it doesn’t mean that there aren’t more people there who love watching him play.
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Well, I’ve heard Montreal do it but you can’t count them because they are stupid.
Toronto, for one, doesn’t boo him.
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Honestly, I think it’s more because he’s the superstar on the Caps who’s quickly attaining this “villain” status more than doing something bad like in Buffalo.
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by red army line on Mar 16, 2010 3:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Toronto, for one, doesn’t boo him.
that’s because the people at the ACC aren’t there to watch hockey.
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Really? Maybe every arena in the conference is hyperbole, but it certainly happens in PHI (where they chanted “F__ Ovechkin” in the playoffs), PIT, NYR, NJD, MTL, CAR, BUF, etc. Those are the ones I can distinctly remember off the top of my head from watching on TV (or in the case of NYR, from attending in person). I don’t think the phenomenon happens to that extent with any other player in the league. Obviously it is a sign of fear to some extent – Crosby is the only other guy that seems to elicit that response.
I’m glad you and the fans in Toronto don’t perceive Ovie as a villain, but he has that rep in some places and it certainly seems to be growing.
When we have a competent hockey team we’ll change our tune. We’re pretty chill these days.
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by Chemmy on Mar 16, 2010 4:19 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
It happened in SJ this year. Non-stop boos directed at Ovie. Someone on this board said that that didn’t happen previous years.
(Yes, I know about the avatar hounding - just pretend mine is invisible.)
Me — I was there. Not nonstop, but more than I expected to hear — that’s for sure.
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Mar 16, 2010 5:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Agreed. I hear as many random arenas oooohing and aaaahing him as I hear boo him. Sometimes it’s the same arena in the same game.
Killer_Carlson and Steckel Me Elmo are like brothers to me. And when I say brothers I don't mean like actual brothers. I mean it like how black people use it, which is more meaningful, I think.
by Fehr and Balanced on Mar 16, 2010 6:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Aside from Phaneuf, nobody cares about the rest. And what has Phaneuf done to be universally hated, aside from dating Elisa Cuthbert?
Really?
What league are you following or do you just stick in the Langwayosphere’s echo chamber?
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Please. It’s the Bondrosphere.
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by J.P. on Mar 16, 2010 2:11 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Ok
I wasn’t invited to the baptism!
Bondrosphere it is.
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Just made that up on the fly, but it sounds good.
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I think it works.
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Can I just put in a quick vote for the Berubasphere?
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by Down Goes Brown on Mar 16, 2010 2:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Don't listen to him
He’s trying to make his Craig Berube jersey relevant
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Me too. Olie the goalie was my hero.
by lynxtheone on Mar 17, 2010 6:56 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Really? People don’t care about Sean Avery? Or Steve Ott? Or Todd Bertuzzi? Not buying it.
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by Knee high to a duck on Mar 16, 2010 2:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Aside from Avery who people know because of the sloppy seconds comment, I would argue the casual hockey fan doesn’t know who any of those people are. Cooke MAYBE because of the recent suspension, but no one else.
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by SeattleCapsFan on Mar 16, 2010 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions
non suspension
Every time the Swedish Swashbuckler scores a goal, an angel gets its wings.
by SeattleCapsFan on Mar 16, 2010 2:13 PM EDT up reply actions
I would argue that casual fans know Ovechkin more for his incredible goals than his two suspensions.
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Duh
Can’t believe I missed that but yeah, everyone hates him.
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OK, I’ll bite. Aside from Cooke, who’s really a nobody, what other high profile player elicits such strong dislike among the fans across the league.
Crosby, Alfredsson, Pronger, Heatley, any great player on the Leafs.*
*Not currently applicable.
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by Down Goes Brown on Mar 16, 2010 2:05 PM EDT up reply actions
You know someone is a Leafs fan when Alfredsson is on their most hated list. I haven’t seen much hate for him outside of Toronto.
Of all our iniquities ignorance may be the worst
by Killer_Carlson on Mar 16, 2010 8:11 PM EDT up reply actions
I still think Alfredsson’s a shithead for shooting that puck at Niedermayer’s head.
There's a fine line between arrogance and ignorance and only I manage to erase that line.
That was a douchey move, but the puck was shot at nowhere near head height.
Of all our iniquities ignorance may be the worst
by Killer_Carlson on Mar 17, 2010 9:34 AM EDT up reply actions
Hate him. Especially.
Everyone wants to kill the king. But the prince, he just sails along telling all the ladies, "One day I'm gonna be king."
by Steck It Out on Mar 16, 2010 2:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Not happening. Ever.
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by J.P. on Mar 16, 2010 1:52 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
I have been wondering the same exact thing lately. How long is Ovechkin going to sit there and be villianized for these so-called “dirty” plays before he says the hell with it. I can go back home and play and make more money and not have to deal with this shit. These decisions made by the NHL have managed to increase unfavorable bias toward Ovechkin. I mean they’re basically cementing Crosby’s legacy as the golden child, and Ovechkin as Satan. I don’t believe in consipacy theories, but I don’t like it one bit.
The thing is, the whole “I’m gonna take my puck and go home” argument doesn’t hold water unless the Caps let him out of his contract. Otherwise, the KHL cannot allow him to play, and he would be banned from Socchi by the IIHF.
I don’t like the villainizing either.
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I don’t see AO as that weak of a personality, either. Not to mention, he’s got plenty of people on his side, and they’re not all Jaspers’ Rinkers.
by DrinkingPartner on Mar 16, 2010 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions
I think Ovie has too much integrety and respect for the Capitals organization to break his contract. He is also determined to win the Cup. And, as DP said, he doesn’t have a weak personality. However, I could see him become less fun and sparkling and more reclusive, frustrated and impatient.
(Yes, I know about the avatar hounding - just pretend mine is invisible.)
The “intent to injure” angle is kind of a red herring, though. Nobody is seriously arguing that he was trying to hurt Campbell.
Ovechkin was suspended for being reckless. He was suspended because he did something that was dangerous, and it resulted in a serious injury. His lack of intent doesn’t get him off the hook for that.
To be honest, if anyone really thought he had intended to injure Campbell on this hit, the suspension would have been in the double digits.
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by Down Goes Brown on Mar 16, 2010 1:31 PM EDT reply actions
One example of a “professional” writer seriously proposing Ovechkin is out to hurt someone: http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/2010/03/15/spector_ovechkin/
Suspend Colin Campbell!
Take it with a grain of salt, this guy tends to say all sorts of crap
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by Kevin Sellathamby on Mar 16, 2010 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions
The sad thing is you see guys pulling stuff all the time with what appears to be intent to injure and rarely does it result in a suspension. Meanwhile, freak occurrences that result in injury will now be suspendable.
Suspend Colin Campbell!
P.S. I’ll get in your face. I don’t take it from anyone.
Killer_Carlson and Steckel Me Elmo are like brothers to me. And when I say brothers I don't mean like actual brothers. I mean it like how black people use it, which is more meaningful, I think.
by Fehr and Balanced on Mar 16, 2010 6:52 PM EDT up reply actions
My problem with the “intent to injure” angle is (and I mentioned this in Clips) what the hell are guys who drop the gloves trying to do? Lightly tap the the other guys face and hope he skates away unscathed??
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So you want fighting abolished? Or you want there to be no PIM for intent to injure? I’ve already explained the difference to you and you’re not buying it, but what’s your resolution if you’re upset about this “contradiction” in policy?
Killer_Carlson and Steckel Me Elmo are like brothers to me. And when I say brothers I don't mean like actual brothers. I mean it like how black people use it, which is more meaningful, I think.
by Fehr and Balanced on Mar 16, 2010 6:53 PM EDT up reply actions
I’d like a clear indication from the league on whether intent is taken into account on disciplinary matters. We’ve seen times when it clearly is and times when it isn’t. If intent is indeed taken into account, then permitting fighting in hockey is extremely hypocritical, IMHO.
DC Landing Strip - Waxed and Ready to Go
The "intent to injure" angle is kind of a red herring, though. Nobody is seriously arguing that he was trying to hurt Campbell.
Similarly, the “Caps fans think it was a clean hit” angle is a red herring – nobody here thinks that the hit shouldn’t have been penalized. It’s just the degree to which it was penalized that people take issue with.
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by J.P. on Mar 16, 2010 1:42 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Amendment
I’d say that the vast majority of writers don’t think he intended to hurt Ovechkin and the vast majority of fans think it was a hit that deserved a penalty.
But there are still some of each that believe those red herrings.
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Flags shouldn’t wave in space!
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…Wait. It IS Lent. :-p
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Look, I love James and all, but he built a hell of a strawman in that post. Where did Ted (or any of his “close friends in D.C.”) ever say that the play shouldn’t have been penalized?
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I think he meant that it shouldn’t be penalised with a suspension but you can always ask him.
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He’s been pretty clear on the point that it’s shocking that anyone disagrees with him here, so I’ll decline the invitation.
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Ask for clarification then. Don’t mention that you disagree and then you won’t feel bad
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Eh, I did. Didn’t get anywhere.
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yeah I usually love James, but if he falls off the high horse he was on yesterday, he’ll be hurt worse than Brian Campbell.
Because now I can justify browsing and commenting during the work day with the argument that I am promoting my business.
by Sombrero Guy on Mar 16, 2010 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
James Mirtle
/not on a first name basis
Because now I can justify browsing and commenting during the work day with the argument that I am promoting my business.
by Sombrero Guy on Mar 16, 2010 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, I’m not a fan of anyone who claims to be "shocked’ that anyone would disagree with their argument.
"Now wait a minute. This is just purely a social call. You know, just two adults getting a stew on, man."
by The Ghost of Bebop on Mar 16, 2010 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Be happy. He gave you guys so much credit that he was shocked.
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It’s really not much of an argument.
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It’s a hit from behind. I’m not even sure how that’s disputable.
Hits from behind carry with them a minimum of a five-minute major and a game misconduct. Minimum.
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by James Mirtle on Mar 16, 2010 4:46 PM EDT up reply actions
In what NHL world does this apply? In the world where Craig Adams gets no supplemental discipline? Where Michal Handzus gets no supplemental discipline? Where Slava Kozlov gets no supplemental discipline?
In a vacuum, or in an alternative universe, you could justify suspending AO on the grounds of hitting from behind or being reckless. But that’s not how this NHL operates. This suspension is because Campbell got hurt, and that’s what blows for Caps fans. I don’t want to hear the high and mighty about how the hit broke the rules because that stuff happens all the time. If the guy gets up, it’s not a suspension and may not even be a penalty.
Killer_Carlson and Steckel Me Elmo are like brothers to me. And when I say brothers I don't mean like actual brothers. I mean it like how black people use it, which is more meaningful, I think.
by Fehr and Balanced on Mar 16, 2010 5:35 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
I don’t mention the suspension.
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by James Mirtle on Mar 16, 2010 6:15 PM EDT up reply actions
And my point still stands. Hits from behind do not carry a minimum of a five-minute major and a game. You may want them to. But as the NHL currently is, they simply don’t.
Killer_Carlson and Steckel Me Elmo are like brothers to me. And when I say brothers I don't mean like actual brothers. I mean it like how black people use it, which is more meaningful, I think.
by Fehr and Balanced on Mar 16, 2010 6:56 PM EDT up reply actions
But according to the rules James Mirtle is right. Whether or not the penalty is being called the way it’s written is another issue entirely.
44.1 Checking from Behind – A check from behind is a check delivered on a player who is not aware of the impending hit, therefore unable to protect or defend himself, and contact is made on the back part of the body. When a player intentionally turns his body to create contact with his back, no penalty shall be assessed.
44.2 Minor Penalty – There is no provision for a minor penalty for checking from behind.
44.3 Major Penalty – Any player or goalkeeper who cross-checks, pushes or charges from behind an opponent who is unable to protect or defend himself, shall be assessed a major penalty. This penalty applies anywhere on the playing surface (see 44.5).
But isn’t how it is normally called one of the main issues? Don’t just cite the rulebook. It’s broad, indeterminate in many places, and not consistently enforced. I don’t really care what it says. If you watch the NHL you god damn know that hits from behind are not punished with a minimum 5/game. It’s just not true.
Killer_Carlson and Steckel Me Elmo are like brothers to me. And when I say brothers I don't mean like actual brothers. I mean it like how black people use it, which is more meaningful, I think.
by Fehr and Balanced on Mar 16, 2010 7:21 PM EDT up reply actions
But the rule book isn’t the problem. The problem is the way dirty, dangerous plays are being called….or not being called. Checking from behind should not be that hard to call as it’s written. The problem isn’t with the rule, it’s with the officials not following the rule book as it’s written.
I’m not sure where I’m trying to go with this…it’s been a long week. I guess what I’m trying to say is that if the on ice officials start calling penalties as they are written then a lot of the inconsistencies from Toronto go away.
I think what F&B is saying is that chucking Ovie from the game and suspending him for two more is a little like sending a guy to jail for doing 27 in a 25 mph zone, when everyone drives on that road every day at 30mph.
There's a fine line between arrogance and ignorance and only I manage to erase that line.
And, as a practical matter, how does one reconcile Mirtle’s “I personally would like to see every hit from behind result in a suspension of some sort” with Bob McKenzie’s “Truth is the Ovechkin hit on Campbell, or some form of it, happens in almost every game, but if there’s no injury, there’s no penalty.”
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by J.P. on Mar 16, 2010 1:52 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
With a shoehorn.
My ability to post is only surpassed by my ability to pinch pennies.
by jordanDC on Mar 16, 2010 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Easy
Bob says it happens a lot and James thinks it should always be punished.
Hopefully the latter leads to the former decreasing.
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Two-game suspensions coming from nearly every game will be awesome. Can’t wait.
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Me neither
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Do you guys honestly think that Ovechkin hit happens every game? Look at the force with which he heaves a player from behind into the end boards… that’s not a common occurrence.
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by James Mirtle on Mar 16, 2010 2:11 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t. Not at all. But Bob McKenzie does and he’s smarter than I am.
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He’s making his point poorly. That hit doesn’t happen often, and when it does, it’s a penalty. If it’s as violent and dangerous as that one, obviously the player will be injured and it deserves a more severe punishment.
There are various degrees of severity to everything — that’s why there are double minors, majors and game misconducts.
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by James Mirtle on Mar 16, 2010 2:14 PM EDT up reply actions
That hit doesn’t happen often, and when it does, it’s supposed to be a penalty.
FTFY.
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by IRockTheRed on Mar 16, 2010 2:15 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I don’t want to sound like one of the conspiracy theorists because the hit was certainly bad…but I keep coming back to the Adams hit on Ovechkin that has been talked about so much over the last couple of days. Virtually same action…different area of ice…no penalty at all.
That was a missed call.
It was also less egregious and not by a repeat offender.
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by James Mirtle on Mar 16, 2010 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions
It was also less egregious
That’s inconsistent with the head positions of the two players. Much higher incidence for head trauma if the player goes headfirst into the boards. It’s pretty egregious.
Only YOU can prevent idiots from commenting!
by Knee high to a duck on Mar 16, 2010 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
That was a missed call.
Isn’t that what the league offices are there for? I’m not trying to be antagonistic or an asshole…but are you saying that a player should only be suspended if the refs make the initial call?
That seems to be the NHL’s take on it.
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Nope.
Again, that hit was bad, it should have been a major, but there’s no history there and the offence is much less violent. It’s not the end boards.
It’s bad, it should be a penalty, definitely.
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by James Mirtle on Mar 16, 2010 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Boarding is boarding, no matter where on the boards it takes place. I don’t see anywhere in the rules where boarding into the end boards is worse than into the side boards.
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It’s a hit from behind.
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by James Mirtle on Mar 16, 2010 3:14 PM EDT up reply actions
It was called as boarding.
Now, are we going to argue that the referees made the wrong call AGAIN, or what?
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Ovechkin shoves a guy from behind into the boards.
How do you not think this is boarding?
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Mirtle just called it a hit from behind.
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The two terms are essentially interchangeable.
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Not really.
I’ve asked the NHLOA to clarify, and they did say:
The Scenario
Player A hits Player B from behind and sends him violently into the boards. Is this:
A: Checking from behind
or
B: Boarding
What makes the difference in the call?
You have essentially answered the first question yourself in your description of the situation. When a player is checked from behind where he is not aware of the impending hit and therefore is not able to protect or defend himself, then the call shall be Check from Behind (Rule 44). Boarding on the other hand may be a similar hit, but is not necessarily a hit that occurs to the back of the player.
~Ryan Galloway (NHL Linesman #82)
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Rule 42.1
A boarding penalty shall be imposed on any player or goalkeeper who checks an opponent in such a manner that causes the opponent to be thrown violently in the boards. The severity of the penalty, based upon the degree of violence of the impact with the boards, shall be at the discretion of the Referee.
Just like how the high sticking double minor is only called if there’s blood even though the rule doesn’t mention the word blood at all, boarding is colloquially used to refer to a hit from behind.
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Those two things
Don’t have to be distinct. You can board someone by hitting them from behind.
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How is it not a hit from behind?
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by James Mirtle on Mar 16, 2010 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions
It’s not the end boards.
Oh… so it was the softer, more forgiving boards? That’s the worst distinguishing factor I’ve seen. Necks can be broken anywhere on the boards. Adams was also much more from behind and hit AO before AO even touched the puck. AO was skating perpendicularly toward the boards, while Campbell was skating parallel to the boards. The Adams hit is worse, IMO.
Killer_Carlson and Steckel Me Elmo are like brothers to me. And when I say brothers I don't mean like actual brothers. I mean it like how black people use it, which is more meaningful, I think.
by Fehr and Balanced on Mar 16, 2010 5:39 PM EDT up reply actions
I disagree. The level of force involved with the illegal plays isn’t comparable.
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by James Mirtle on Mar 16, 2010 6:17 PM EDT up reply actions
And neither are the body parts. One was head-first, which is much worse. If you’re arguing to prevent the paralysis of more players, you can’t say that the play that drove the player head-long into the boards wasn’t as bad as landing on your ribs and breaking your collarbone, parallel with the boards.
Only YOU can prevent idiots from commenting!
by Knee high to a duck on Mar 16, 2010 7:00 PM EDT up reply actions
less egregious because Ovie doesn’t have a glass clavicle?
Ovie would have been a first time offender if not for the blown call earlier in the season, does that excuse him? (and technically that misconduct was off his record since it was out side of 41 games)
Suspend Colin Campbell!
less egregious because Ovie doesn’t have a glass clavicle?
God, that brittle Brian Campbell. What a jerk.
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You know he dove to try and Crosby it up, and just miscalculated his dive a little bit.
Wimp, and an inept wimp at that.
"You want to start being part of the Rink? Fine, but more’s expected of you than John/Jane Cap Fan. Carry the cause of informed discussion to the unwashed masses and don’t crap in the yards of other SBN sites if you decide to go over there. They’re passionate about their teams too, no need to troll elsewhere and/or be a sore winner." --BP
Well, no one has the practice diving that Crosby does. He can even dive backwards now! Good thing the league didn’t fall for it and punish Steve Downie.
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I think Crosby was trying to bite Downie on the play.
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by jordanDC on Mar 16, 2010 2:33 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
I’m’a take this off-topic ‘cause my comment’s pretty bad.
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Which proves my point above ;)
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I didn’t see a point above from you.
/snark
But in all seriousness, I would not accuse Crosby of diving in that play; he’s damned lucky he didn’t get his neck broken, and the league disciplinary system IS BUSTICATED because they didn’t do a damnthing about it, on or off the ice, in a blatant slew-footing incident.
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Come on. The League did something:
They fined Downie $1,000 Shrute bucks.
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Oooooooh! Big fine.
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They didn’t fine him in beets?
Everyone wants to kill the king. But the prince, he just sails along telling all the ladies, "One day I'm gonna be king."
by Steck It Out on Mar 16, 2010 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions
But they did say he could continue to hide weapons all over the arena. Just in case, ya know?
Killer_Carlson and Steckel Me Elmo are like brothers to me. And when I say brothers I don't mean like actual brothers. I mean it like how black people use it, which is more meaningful, I think.
by Fehr and Balanced on Mar 16, 2010 7:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Missed calls on ice should still be subject to supplemental discipline.
Don’t know Adams’s rap sheet, but Ovi was not officially a repeat offender until now.
Less violent, certainly. Less egregious, debateable
by Gin and Tonic on Mar 16, 2010 2:39 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Soccer has that system in place to ensure that players don’t get off scot-free just because the refs didn’t see it.
Of course, they still fuck it up.
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Agreed. And that’s why I’m surprised that you are shocked that different people could see this hit in different degrees of severity.
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To me, that’s a brutal hit. One with potentially horrifying consequences. To call it “just a push” is misguided and just plain wrong given how many pushes have ended careers.
A push is not a hit. That’s not even a bodycheck.
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by James Mirtle on Mar 16, 2010 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Right. If it had been a hit or a check, it would have been even more horrific. No?
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At least bodychecking is part of the game. Shoving unsuspecting players from behind isn’t.
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by James Mirtle on Mar 16, 2010 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions
How was that unsuspecting? Campbell knew exactly where Ovechkin was at all time. Ovi tapped him on the shin and Soupy turned his head.
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by Scott in Shaw on Mar 16, 2010 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Hmmm my back is to the player, hitting from behind certainly isnt allowed under NHL rules, he probably wont do something stupid and board me
Knowing something might happen isnt the something as knowing it will happen
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by JaredFromLondon on Mar 16, 2010 3:24 PM EDT up reply actions
It happened again in that very same game when the Chicago defenseman knocked Semin sideways into the end boards. It happened last night when Seidenberg took Parise into the boards the very same way. It doesn’t happen every game but pretty damn often.
I think Green’s been knocked around like that at least twice this season, I don’t recall if there was any on ice penalty issued but there was definitely no suspension.
Suspend Colin Campbell!
Could Pronger’s hit on Green from last season be comparable?
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Yes it could. Lemmee find that on YouTube.
No call on the ice, similar results.
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Good point
From now on, all similar hits are fair game because the league didn’t punish that one.
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Which is the problem with poorly or inconsistently applied ‘precedent’.
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by Knee high to a duck on Mar 16, 2010 2:34 PM EDT up reply actions
You joke, but that’s pretty much what they said with Cooke’s hit.
My ability to post is only surpassed by my ability to pinch pennies.
And we all agree it’s about the dumbest thing we’ve ever heard right?
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Oh yeah. Definitely.
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Quick, let’s close this thread while we all agree.
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I DON’T AGREE!
Muhaha.
Everyone wants to kill the king. But the prince, he just sails along telling all the ladies, "One day I'm gonna be king."
by Steck It Out on Mar 16, 2010 2:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Dammit!
“cancel my 3pm!”
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Matt Cooke agrees.
Killer_Carlson and Steckel Me Elmo are like brothers to me. And when I say brothers I don't mean like actual brothers. I mean it like how black people use it, which is more meaningful, I think.
by Fehr and Balanced on Mar 16, 2010 7:03 PM EDT up reply actions
That hit on Green was completely legal. If you want to get upset about hits on Green you should be hyping up Koci and Dubinsky.
Killer_Carlson and Steckel Me Elmo are like brothers to me. And when I say brothers I don't mean like actual brothers. I mean it like how black people use it, which is more meaningful, I think.
by Fehr and Balanced on Mar 16, 2010 7:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Maybe not with the same force, but maybe under the same circumstances.
Everyone wants to kill the king. But the prince, he just sails along telling all the ladies, "One day I'm gonna be king."
by Steck It Out on Mar 16, 2010 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions
But again, the force of the hit is a major factor. You can’t just overlook that part of it.
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by Down Goes Brown on Mar 16, 2010 2:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Did you see Parise or Semin, even, in the same game? They both hit good and square and hard: they just didn’t hit awkwardly like Soup did. Soup hit diagonally wheras both Parise and Sasha hit with the full of their backs.
by DrinkingPartner on Mar 16, 2010 2:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Wouldn’t that tilt the scales unfairly against the bigger and stronger players?
A borderline hit from a stronger player could conceivably be more forceful/cause more injury than a definite bad hit from a weaker player.
by Gin and Tonic on Mar 16, 2010 2:44 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
True, but that argument is taking away the fact that the bigger, stronger player need to realize their strength and exercise more control than the little guys on the borderline hits.
I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.
But little guys like St. Louis and skinny guys like Gretzky learned how to deal with their physical disadvantages as it comes to hockey, and so should everyone else, if they’re going to stay in a physical league like this one.
by DrinkingPartner on Mar 16, 2010 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Could be. I’m not really sure how you get around that, though. And besides, if a player is bigger and stronger than we probably should be discouraging them from illegal/dangerous hits.
If you’re big and strong, go out there and hit clean and raise hell. You can still dominate physically. Just try not to end anyone’s season on a clear boarding call.
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by Down Goes Brown on Mar 16, 2010 2:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Do you think Ovi was trying to end Campbell’s season when he pushed him?
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Do you think Ovechkin showed respect for a player in a vulnerable position on that play?
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Yes. He did use anywhere near the strength he could have on that play.
(Yes, I know about the avatar hounding - just pretend mine is invisible.)
how the hell does that matter?
Who wants to go to the Olive Garden?
by JaredFromLondon on Mar 16, 2010 3:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Disagree. He didn’t show enough respect there.
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He might not have shown enough respect, but Chemmy’s post ask if he showed [any] respect. He didn’t use the amount of force I’m accustomed to seeing him use, so, based on that, I believe some consideration [respect] came into play.
(Yes, I know about the avatar hounding - just pretend mine is invisible.)
“I showed respect for my opponent by not injuring him nearly as hard as I could have.”
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He let him live – that’s respecting LIFE, and nothing’s more sacred than that. Duh.
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Of course not. But he needs to be smart enough to know that it’s a possible outcome when you shove a vulnerable guy into the boards from behind at high speed.
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by Down Goes Brown on Mar 16, 2010 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions
But that logic can be applied to any hit. That’s an illogical point of view.
by DrinkingPartner on Mar 16, 2010 3:14 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t think it is. Throw a clean hit and you’ve got nothing to worry about. Injuries happen. It’s a tough game.
Throw a dirty hit, and this one was, then you run the risk of an injury and/or suspension. Don’t want the risk, don’t throw the hit.
Down Goes Brown - Unapologetically nostalgic for the past. Brutally realistic about the present. Grudgingly optimistic about the future.
by Down Goes Brown on Mar 16, 2010 3:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Accidents happen. One from a big, strong player could have graver consequences than a malicious hit from a weaker player.
by Gin and Tonic on Mar 16, 2010 4:47 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Like that? A shove from behind into the boards? With that force? After the player has played the puck? In a completely unnecessary situation?
Anyone have more video of those happening often?
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by James Mirtle on Mar 16, 2010 2:15 PM EDT up reply actions
The “completely unnecessary” canard has got to go. Establishing a forecheck early in a big game and letting a defenseman know that you’re gonna be on him all afternoon is wholly necessary. Poor execution by AO, to be sure, but it wasn’t unnecessary.
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by J.P. on Mar 16, 2010 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
It was late. It’s not even a hit — it’s a shove from behind. It’s unnecessary and plain dumb.
Like I said, I don’t think this was intentional, but it doesn’t matter. Ovechkin goofed and he pays the penalty.
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by James Mirtle on Mar 16, 2010 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Maybe Campbell needs to make himself more unshoveable on the play.
My ability to post is only surpassed by my ability to pinch pennies.
This to me simply shows a complete lack of understanding of the game. It’s just plain wrong to blame the victim here.
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by James Mirtle on Mar 16, 2010 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions
I pray he was snarking.
Everyone wants to kill the king. But the prince, he just sails along telling all the ladies, "One day I'm gonna be king."
by Steck It Out on Mar 16, 2010 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh, he was snarking. jordanDC excels at snark. :-)
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But none of us ARE blaming the victim.
We’re calling it an accident precipitated by Ovechkin’s ill-timed push and aggravated by bad ice.
In other words: DOOKIE HAPPENS.
It would not have even been boarding, without the ice factor. And you’re not trying to tell me Ovi knew there was a bad patch of ice right there to shove Campbell onto just so he’d break his collarbone and some ribs and be out for the season.
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There’s never a time when you should shove a player from behind.
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by James Mirtle on Mar 16, 2010 3:16 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
That was a reference to what one of the NotF guys said about the hit by Koci on Green in Colorado. Completely inappropriate response by the analyst.
by DrinkingPartner on Mar 16, 2010 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m more of a 53/39 guy myself.
(Obligatory cycling reference)
There's a fine line between arrogance and ignorance and only I manage to erase that line.
I thought it was because you have a thing for slow feet and terrible hands.
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by Fehr and Balanced on Mar 16, 2010 7:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Maybe combined you two can get one puck on net.
Killer_Carlson and Steckel Me Elmo are like brothers to me. And when I say brothers I don't mean like actual brothers. I mean it like how black people use it, which is more meaningful, I think.
by Fehr and Balanced on Mar 16, 2010 7:07 PM EDT up reply actions
This to me simply shows a complete lack of understanding of the game. It’s just plain wrong to blame the victim here.
Hate to break it you but Denny Potvin did this morning on XM. Are you suggesting he doesn’t understand hockey. Todd Marchant said Campbell handled the play poorly. He doesn’t understand hockey? Mike Babcock?
Careful
You’ll never be able to argue about anything that people with much more experience than you say about hockey if you go down that path.
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I agree
But then again, I don’t think it warrants further explanation if one of the NHL’s top coaches, one of the all-time greats, and a current NHLer say so.
On the other hand, “Hammer” and co have opposing players and have quite legit opinions as well.
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by red army line on Mar 16, 2010 3:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Sure, but a current NHLer also agrees that he should make better decisions.
And, I’d suggest asking Babcock what he thinks if the same thing happens to Lidstrom.
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Vigneault is a (sort of, the ‘Hawks and ’Nucks are right in the thick of it) neutral third party. Getting the opinion now means it’s less likely to be tainted.
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by Knee high to a duck on Mar 16, 2010 3:51 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t think it has anything to do with the standings. I think it’s more with the league’s mentality and approach to discipline.
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I’m just saying that a neutral opinion is probably better than a party who’s just been aggrieved.
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by Knee high to a duck on Mar 16, 2010 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah
But by the same account the viewpoint of an ally might be the best and Knuble said Ovi’s gotta be smarter.
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Also fair.
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by Knee high to a duck on Mar 16, 2010 3:57 PM EDT up reply actions
True. But it seemed to be that he was more concerned about Ovi hurting himself and not being able to play for the team as opposed to concern for hurting others (though I’m sure he doesn’t want Ovi to hurt anyone either).
by Gin and Tonic on Mar 16, 2010 4:57 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Yeah
I was really trying to kill this about actual NHL-employed or team-employed guys saying this-or-that. There are both sides.
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by red army line on Mar 16, 2010 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Exactly. The fact that Babcock and Potvin take that stance demonstrates that it’s not so clear cut that you would have to have “a complete lack of understanding of the game” to take that position. It’s a huge gray area.
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by Fehr and Balanced on Mar 16, 2010 7:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Do you guys honestly think that Ovechkin hit happens every game? Look at the force with which he heaves a player from behind into the end boards… that’s not a common occurrence.
Yes. there are similar shoves away from the boards in every game, yes. Circumstance (be it momentum, toe picks, unexpected direction changes by the hitee) led that instance to unfortunate results. Normally the player either pops right up or doesn’t go down at all.
Because now I can justify browsing and commenting during the work day with the argument that I am promoting my business.
by Sombrero Guy on Mar 16, 2010 3:24 PM EDT up reply actions
And do you honestly not see Campbell catch an edge? Do you not see that contributing to the carnage? Obviously it was a penalty, but the injury was flukey and could have happened to any number of players this year, including Ovechkin.
Killer_Carlson and Steckel Me Elmo are like brothers to me. And when I say brothers I don't mean like actual brothers. I mean it like how black people use it, which is more meaningful, I think.
by Fehr and Balanced on Mar 16, 2010 5:37 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m with Mirtle. I thought it was an inexcusable hit from behind. Haven’t been around much this week, and that’s unfortunately going to have to continue, but I figured I’d chime in. I thought it was bad. Real bad.
NHL players shouldn’t need stop signs on the backs of helmets. The best player in the world sure as hell shouldn’t. Stupid, stupid, stupid.
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Mar 16, 2010 6:13 PM EDT up reply actions
That’s all I’m saying. Ovie made a mistake, gets a short timeout and that’s it.
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by James Mirtle on Mar 16, 2010 6:19 PM EDT up reply actions
That’s not really all you’re saying, because we’re all saying that – that it was a bad hit.
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That particular mistake is a game misconduct in the rulebook.
The suspension — I hardly get into that. But a big hit from behind is five and a game.
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by James Mirtle on Mar 16, 2010 8:06 PM EDT up reply actions
“Some form” of the Ovechkin hit probably does happen every game. Some form.
This particular form — the one that results in a devastating impact into the end boards that leaves a player out 7-8 weeks — doesn’t happen every game, and should result in a suspension when it does.
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by Down Goes Brown on Mar 16, 2010 1:57 PM EDT up reply actions
and should result in a suspension when it does.
Why?
Only YOU can prevent idiots from commenting!
by Knee high to a duck on Mar 16, 2010 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Anyone that has ever had to deal with incentives realizes that punishing luck is the best way to send a message.
Killer_Carlson and Steckel Me Elmo are like brothers to me. And when I say brothers I don't mean like actual brothers. I mean it like how black people use it, which is more meaningful, I think.
by Fehr and Balanced on Mar 16, 2010 7:12 PM EDT up reply actions
I think that penalizing the result and not the hit is misguided. If it’s the action your want to deter, discipline the means, not the end.
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by J.P. on Mar 16, 2010 1:59 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
I’m generally with you on that one. But injury needs to be a factor as well, even if only for length of suspension.
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by Down Goes Brown on Mar 16, 2010 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Again, why should it be? So if a players gets up and finishes the game…or has the ability to play through more pain…the suspension should be fewer games? That’s asinine.
It’s human nature. Think of any punishment you have received from anyone and it usually is worse depending on the outcome.
Examples of the opposite are “zero tolerance” rules that get people suspended from school or expelled for bringing plastic knives in their lunchbox and I think that we can agree that those are even stupider.
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Not buying this argument. At all. And I like you guys, so I say this with respect.
Hockey is not a judicial, governmental, or penal function; the analogy is so inapposite as to be valueless.
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by fat_daddyo on Mar 16, 2010 2:11 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I am saying it’s human nature. If you took your dad’s car as a 16 year old you’d get punished. If you crashed it, you’d get punished much more.
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Just because it’s human nature doesn’t mean it has to be the rule when the NHL doles out suspensions. Sure if you’re on the fence one way or another an injury will push you towards the more severe punishment. But it shouldn’t be a governing factor.
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by SeattleCapsFan on Mar 16, 2010 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Just explaining why I think things are the way they are.
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I think PPP has it right. The injury shouldn’t influence supplemental discipline, but doesn’t mean that it doesn’t play a role at all. CC is human, he must’ve heard of the injury, refs see a player hurt on the ice, etc.
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by red army line on Mar 16, 2010 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Sports are not criminal justice.
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You’re also presumably not trying to make a living by stealing the car.
My ability to post is only surpassed by my ability to pinch pennies.
Or setting a precedent for the rest of the night, stealing sodas and outrunning Cops and such.
by DrinkingPartner on Mar 16, 2010 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Well in general, this gets applied in any form of justice. If I get in my car and run a red light, I’m a dummy and I’ll get a ticket. If I cause an accident, I’m in more trouble. If I kill someone, even moreso. Wrong is wrong, but the damage does matter to the punishment.
But in this specific case, again, the league defines the punishment by the severity of the imapct. Anything that puts a guy out that long is going to be a pretty serious impact.
If Campbell manages to brace himself at the last second and avoids an injury, Ovechkin’s hit would be just as dumb and dangerous. But he’d probably end up with a minor and that’s it.
Fair? Maybe not. Luck? Yes. But if you don’t want to leave it up to chance then don’t hit the guy from behind in the first place.
Down Goes Brown - Unapologetically nostalgic for the past. Brutally realistic about the present. Grudgingly optimistic about the future.
by Down Goes Brown on Mar 16, 2010 2:08 PM EDT up reply actions
But other theories of justice apply in the real world that are totally inapplicable to the NHL.
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It’s not about applying the wording for assault from the penal code to hockey it’s about applying concepts that have existed throughout human history.
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Disagree on the applicability of those concepts to a sport in which there’s non-stop consensual battery.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
No rules are broken during the vast majority of the non-stop consensual battery.
If you are wronged, in any aspect of life, in any period of history, the outcome affects the punishment/retribution. It’s human nature, it’s been human nature, and it’ll always be human nature. I think that explains why.
Note: That doesn’t mean that it’s right.
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Still don’t buy it, but whatever. This is Day 3 of this crap and I’m done with it. I’m gonna go sniff glue.
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Too bad our buddy, Peter, stopped sniffing early.
by DrinkingPartner on Mar 16, 2010 2:27 PM EDT up reply actions
I assume you mean ‘go back to sniffing glue’
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Nope – paint thinner in the morning, glue in the afternoon. That’s how I roll.
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And you mix it up on the weekends with gasoline judging by the e-mails I get
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I think injury plays a huge factor in possible consequences. Look at the Todd Bertuzzi/Steve Moore incident or the Marty McSorly incident. The injury sustained by the victim had a large influence over the length of the suspensions both aggressors received.
Those guys would have been in deep shit either way. You can’t bop somebody over the head with your stick or tackle a dude from behind.
My ability to post is only surpassed by my ability to pinch pennies.
A fan in Russia would like to have a vodka-soaked word with you
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Chris Simon finally hung ’em up?
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by Fehr and Balanced on Mar 16, 2010 7:22 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Sure, those are suspension worthy acts, without question. But would the suspensions been as severe had Moore or Brashear gotten back up and kept playing? No way.
Forgot to buckle my chinstrap.
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by jordanDC on Mar 16, 2010 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I try and leave the resulting injuries out of it, but even I can’t ignore that fact the Moore broke his neck, and remembering Brash convulsing on the ice makes my stomach turn.
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I dunno. What’s the point of the suspension, exactly?
Deterrence? Makes sense, but why would the injury factor in then – if it was a bad hit that needs to be taken out of the game, the hit and not the result should be what’s disciplined.
Rehabilitation? Not applicable.
Incapacitation? Nope.
Retribution? Seems a pretty primative rationale.
Ultimately, I can’t see how penalizing the result really helps rid the game of bad hits.
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by J.P. on Mar 16, 2010 2:09 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Preventing players from being paralyzed by hits from behind.
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by James Mirtle on Mar 16, 2010 2:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Right. Deterrence. So why penalize the result and not the hit itself?
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Exactly. If someone is really outraged about hits from behind then demand that each one result in an automatic suspesnion, injury or not.
I think they should always be a game misconduct.
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by James Mirtle on Mar 16, 2010 2:24 PM EDT up reply actions
So a guy gets drilled cleanly and ends up paralyzed, the driller should be out of the league?
Suspend Colin Campbell!
No one’s talking about legal hits being penalized.
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He’d have to have horrible luck to end up that way on a clean hit.
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Sure, if the hit on Campbell was clean, which it wasn’t.
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Because the result has a direct relation to the hit itself. Campbell was hurt so badly because of just how dumb, ill-timed and violent Ovechkin’s actions were. He could have been paralyzed there.
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by James Mirtle on Mar 16, 2010 2:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Result was violent, push was not.
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by jordanDC on Mar 16, 2010 2:24 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Yet not necessarily violent in and of itself, which was the point.
My ability to post is only surpassed by my ability to pinch pennies.
Sure, the push wasn’t violent, but it was the cause for the result. I can push you off a bridge and have you die in a violent manner. Doesn’t mean I get off without punishment because all I did was push you.
There’s a clear intended result with your push, not so with AO.
by DrinkingPartner on Mar 16, 2010 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Ovechkin shoved a guy from behind into the boards. That’s a clear penalty because it often results in serious injuries because players can’t protect themselves.
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Are you just throwing the name out there? Do you actually know how he hurt himself?
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by Fehr and Balanced on Mar 16, 2010 7:24 PM EDT up reply actions
He pushed a guy, while on the forecheck, in the arm/shoulder as he was turning around for who knows what reason.
by DrinkingPartner on Mar 16, 2010 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Right hand, right in the numbers
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And where was the other hand? Are we saying that a check from behind is applicable at any point when the numbers, any piece of them, come into contact with any piece of the checker, even if the checked is currently turning away from the checker? Because that’s wrong.
by DrinkingPartner on Mar 16, 2010 3:16 PM EDT up reply actions
So the excuse is that it’s ok that he pushed him in the back because he also pushed him in the shoulder?
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I’m saying it’s not from behind just because he happened to be touching his back. Just because his right hand is touching his numbers does not mean that’s the direction from which the force is coming.
by DrinkingPartner on Mar 16, 2010 3:28 PM EDT up reply actions
It’s a hit from behind.
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No, it’s not.
But I can see we’ll Nylander all over this, so we’ll agree to disagree?
by DrinkingPartner on Mar 16, 2010 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions
his intentions are moot. the results are not. he boarded him, he got injured, Ovie deserves a suspension/
This is silly. Intentions are absolutely not moot.
I agree that it was a bad hit. I agree that it should’ve been penalized. But you think AO would’ve gotten just two games if he said, “Yeah, I was really trying to cripple him – next time, I’ll finish the job.”
AO got two games and not more in part because there wasn’t intent. Intent does matter.
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Absolutely not. Intent is [supposed to be] more than half the battle concerning suspensions.
by DrinkingPartner on Mar 16, 2010 2:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Hawks fan here.
That push, 8 feet from the boards by a guy you all say has superhuman strength can only have one result – the player crashing head / shoulders first into the boards at a very high rate of speed. Watch the extension in Ovechkin’s arms.
IMO, it was a vicious play.
how dumb, ill-timed and violent Ovechkin’s actions were.
I think that’s the main difference between my viewpoint and yours. The push by Ovechkin was certainly stupid. But I don’t fault him for doing it…for as JP said, he was just trying to establish a forecheck in teh beginning of a big game.
But no matter how many times I watch the replay, I just don’t see how you can justify in calling it overly violent.
You can’t call the act violent, you can call the result violent. I’m pretty sure we can all agree that when it went through Ovechkin’s mind to make a hit, he did not want the result to have the outcome it did.
Was the hit dumb? Yes.
Was it intended to injure? No.
Was the result violent? Unfortunately.
People are going to perceive this incident as another black mark that makes Ovechkin’s record even more dirt-stained. In other words, “Haters gonna hate.”
In the end, Ovechkin has to use better judgement in laying down the hits, but that does not mean he should totally take out his physical part of the game. I’m sure we all love him laying out guys (legally, mind you) and playing the game like a bull in a china shop. My only thing is that he’s GOT to use better judgement in situations like on Sunday.
Otherwise, let Ovie be Ovie.
Everyone wants to kill the king. But the prince, he just sails along telling all the ladies, "One day I'm gonna be king."
by Steck It Out on Mar 16, 2010 2:33 PM EDT up reply actions
As I and many of the rinkers here think, the judgement was fine, the result was not.
by DrinkingPartner on Mar 16, 2010 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Please. He was hurt so badly because of genetics, bad luck and an awkward fall from catching his skate. Guys get hit far worse than that all the time and skate away without a bruise. Now if you want to see hit that could have resulted in paralysis, this might be it. Were you suitably outraged over that one?
Funny, he’s had quite some time to respond and hasn’t. I guess he’s okay with it.
"The Caps fan doesn't say, 'is the glass half full' or 'is the glass half empty'. He wonders when the glass is going to spill."
Yeah
Or he thought it was a comment that didn’t merit a response.
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I think it was a fair question (forget the into, I’m skipping the continuing ice argument). It’s relevant. Are you outraged, yes or no? Did the refs and the league f up? It not, why not?
"The Caps fan doesn't say, 'is the glass half full' or 'is the glass half empty'. He wonders when the glass is going to spill."
Ok, then do you guys demonstrate the same level of outrage at every suspension? No? Then you can’t be outraged over this one.
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That’s ridiculous. Not every suspension (or non-suspension) is applied with the same perceived fairness. Saying that you can’t be outraged over one poorly applied rule if you aren’t over another doesn’t make any sense. Especially for different interpretations of ‘fair’.
Only YOU can prevent idiots from commenting!
by Knee high to a duck on Mar 16, 2010 3:46 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I’ll tell you what I don’t do. I don’t go to other team’s blogs and tell their fans what they can’t or can’t say. And the reason I don’t do it is because some might accuse me of trolling.
by b.orr4 on Mar 16, 2010 3:47 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Don’t go down that path. What PPP is saying is relevant, trying to point out a flaw in reasoning.
Cидни Kросби: Александр Oвечкин, он твой папа теперь
Capitals Coming: for Capitals fans no more intelligent than myself
by red army line on Mar 16, 2010 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Lost cause
But yeah, the reasoning is wrong.
And please, ‘trolling’?
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some might, but if you came to say PPP with the intent on having a discussion, even if your view point was totally different and refrained from acting like a tool (not implying you are acting like one) then it would actually be welcome
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by JaredFromLondon on Mar 16, 2010 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions
This is correct.*
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by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Mar 16, 2010 3:53 PM EDT up reply actions
No way
I tried to explain why Jeff Schultz should be on Team Canada and you guys were a bunch of mean jerks.
Killer_Carlson and Steckel Me Elmo are like brothers to me. And when I say brothers I don't mean like actual brothers. I mean it like how black people use it, which is more meaningful, I think.
by Fehr and Balanced on Mar 16, 2010 7:27 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Why don’t you let your site’s founder, who’s in this thread commenting, determine who should come here and what they should say, hm?
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Good idea. I haven’t seen anything in this thread that we don’t welcome here (with the one noted exception that that handled).
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I’d say there’s been plenty of outrage around here about suspensions/non-suspensions that have nothing to do with out team. I think we’re equal opportunity with our outrage.
"The Caps fan doesn't say, 'is the glass half full' or 'is the glass half empty'. He wonders when the glass is going to spill."
Why can’t we be outraged over this one? Because we weren’t as excercised over other suspensions? That is ridiculous. Not all suspensions or the circumstances are the same. Nor, as a team, have there been many suspensions lately. However, we have been vocal over decisions not to suspend players even when it doesn’t involve a player on our team. Nor do you know how we as individuals react to every decision to suspend or not to suspend.
Telling us that we can’t be outraged over this because we have’t
demonstrate[d] the same level of outrage at every suspensionis obnoxious and so much more.
(Yes, I know about the avatar hounding - just pretend mine is invisible.)
not too sure. but the Toronto Star had a decent article in today’s paper, basically saying that the suspension is good for nothing
http://www.thestar.com/sports/hockey/nhl/article/780367—cox-nhl-flailing-in-ovechkin-suspension
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by Caps Canadian Connection on Mar 16, 2010 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Nice, J.P. I just went into my old crim casebook to see if there were any justifications that you missed.
I think rehabilitation is more of a factor than you think it is. Suspending a guy sends a clear message to him that such a play is dangerous and not tolerated by the NHL. One could argue (though I wouldn’t) that suspending a player for injuring another player results in that message coming through louder. Making a player a healthy scratch is one mechanism that coaches use in order to tell that player his efforts are unsatisfactory; in effect, supplementary discipline is the NHL doing the same thing for “the greater good of the league.”
One could also argue that suspending players is something that the league does to lend itself legitimacy and to make it seem as if they are trying to make the game safer and cleaner. Unfortunately, this only works if your disciplinary system isn’t a joke to begin with.
GUTEN TAAAAAAAAAAAAG!
Even allowing for rehabilitation, I think that disciplining the hit and not the result is more likely to achieve the desired result.
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I’d totally agree with this.
If you only discipline when bad results happen, the goons of the world will take it as open season.
“It’s all fun and games ’til somebody pokes an eye out.”
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It’s also carte blanche for the Canadiens to do whatever the hell they want, since their mighty mites couldn’t harm flies.
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Oh don’t worry, Habs are plenty good at running guys from behind.
Down Goes Brown - Unapologetically nostalgic for the past. Brutally realistic about the present. Grudgingly optimistic about the future.
by Down Goes Brown on Mar 16, 2010 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions
[off topic] I Rock the Red, please CYE [/off topic]
Now helping to keep an eye on all things Gr8 at Alex Ovetjkin.
LOL!
I read “curb your enthusiasm.”
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The one argument I can honestly make as to why you suspend players who injure other players and not players who throw bad hits is efficiency. You’ve got one guy who’s conducting the hearings, reviewing all the camera angles, and looking at all of the material. If, as Bob McKenzie said, this hit happens at least once per game, Mr. Campbell would be doing nothing but suspending players.
GUTEN TAAAAAAAAAAAAG!
I think injury matters. I think the fact of an injury tells you valuable information about the riskiness of the play. And it’s the riskiness of the play that should be penalized.
We’ve seen this check many, many times. It’s a shove to the small of the back that causes a player to pitch into the boards. Yes, I’d like to see a suspension every time. Koci on Green, etc. There is no excuse for it at all. Every hockey player of any age knows the risks of that kind of hit.
Rut in the ice or not, Campbell was hurt badly because of what Ovechkin did. It was subtle, but subtle can be dangerous. Ovi spun the wheel, and it came up “bad injury.” But whatever had come up, spinning that wheel was dangerous and wrong. You just cannot shove a guy when all you see are his numbers.
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Mar 16, 2010 6:58 PM EDT up reply actions
If you’re going to punish for injuries, then you’re going to punish every injury that happens in a game. Until the act is not remedied, players are still going to go out and play the game that the NHL seemingly does not want it to play.
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by Steck It Out on Mar 16, 2010 2:09 PM EDT up reply actions
So you’d argue that a standard legal check into the boards that leaves a player concussed should be a suspension?
Suspend Colin Campbell!
No, he didn’t say that. He was referring to illegal checks.
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I led the witness a bit, but it’s the natural path that discipline will take if we punish for injuries.
Suspend Colin Campbell!
Clean hits are clean hits, injury or not.
Dirty hits and dirty hits and should be punished, and that punishment should be more severe if there’s an injury.
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by Down Goes Brown on Mar 16, 2010 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Dirty hits and dirty hits and should be punished, and that punishment should be more severe if there’s an injury.
Why is there a greater punishment for injury? As JP says, if you’re looking for deterrence then you penalize the action, not the result. No other theory makes sense for a suspension, so what does that have to do with anything?
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by Knee high to a duck on Mar 16, 2010 2:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Exactly.
Otherwise, Downie gets nothing for rolling Crosby’s leg…
…wait.
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I do wish people would stop bringing up Downie, Cooke, Lapierre and Adams. They’re largely irrelevant to this situation.
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Not for what I was talking about.
In a nutshell: if you punish the hit, then Downie gets suspended for slew-footing Crosby.
If you punish the RESULT (no injury to Crosby, etc.) then he doesn’t.
I consider that VERY relevant to this topic. It’s just an example. Lighten up, J.P.
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Downie should have been suspended. His act was worse than Ovechkin’s under the circumstances.
That said, one dumb call shouldn’t get everyone else off the hook.
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by Down Goes Brown on Mar 16, 2010 2:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Or one dumb non-call in the case of Richards and Cooke.
My ability to post is only surpassed by my ability to pinch pennies.
And Koci and Adams and Kozlov and Handzus…
I’d agree if it were one dumb non-call. But it’s not.
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by Fehr and Balanced on Mar 16, 2010 8:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Best way to get someone to lighten up? Tell them to lighten up. Cheers.
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I don’t know that they are irrelevant. A lot of what we’d see as suspendable and non-suspendable is based on precedent, no? And we frankly have close to none.
I for one, if the NHL established that hits like this, like Adams, like Koci, etc, are worth 2-3 game suspensions, then I have no issue with this ruling.
Cидни Kросби: Александр Oвечкин, он твой папа теперь
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by red army line on Mar 16, 2010 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Whoops
Agree with IRTR above, that horrifying plays like Downie should be suspended regardless of injury. But just because there’s an injury doesn’t mean there should be a suspension. It’s like trying to equate a conditional with its converse, which mathematically isn’t correct. Either that or my mind isn’t working right now, sorry.
Cидни Kросби: Александр Oвечкин, он твой папа теперь
Capitals Coming: for Capitals fans no more intelligent than myself
by red army line on Mar 16, 2010 2:27 PM EDT up reply actions
If you’re calling for a major change to the way the NHL hands out suspensions, be my guest. Just be aware that you’re arguing against years of history and precedent, in this league, every other league, and beyond.
And please remember to stand by this viewpoint when it’s someone other than a Capital.
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by Down Goes Brown on Mar 16, 2010 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions
And Britain ruled the colonies for a long time, but eventually we did some shit about it.
My ability to post is only surpassed by my ability to pinch pennies.
by jordanDC on Mar 16, 2010 2:20 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
This is a convincing argument for which I have no response.
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by Down Goes Brown on Mar 16, 2010 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions
I think you just silenced DGB.
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by Chris Burton on Mar 16, 2010 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Mostly because it’s hard to type when you are banging your head against your desk.
Of course, it must be easy to type when you are banging your head against the keyboard because there are so many Flyers blogs.
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reply fail?
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by Chris Burton on Mar 16, 2010 2:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Nah, I got the joke he was making. Pretty good one, too.
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by Knee high to a duck on Mar 16, 2010 2:33 PM EDT up reply actions
OK, I’m a bit slow on the uptick this afternoon…
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by Chris Burton on Mar 16, 2010 2:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Whats the reference, anyway?
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by Chris Burton on Mar 16, 2010 2:39 PM EDT up reply actions
That the war comment was out of left field and kind of dumb.
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by PPP on Mar 16, 2010 2:40 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
thx
Most comments comparing sports to war are.
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by Chris Burton on Mar 16, 2010 2:42 PM EDT up reply actions
ust be aware that you’re arguing against years of history and precedent, in this league,
What precedent? I see no consistent application of precedent in supplemental discipline. I really don’t.
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by Knee high to a duck on Mar 16, 2010 2:20 PM EDT up reply actions
They’re all over the map, no question. But you’d have to agree that acts that cause injury are generally punished more severely than those that don’t, wouldn’t you?
Down Goes Brown - Unapologetically nostalgic for the past. Brutally realistic about the present. Grudgingly optimistic about the future.
by Down Goes Brown on Mar 16, 2010 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions
This season? Handzus, Cooke and Richards got off scot-free. I haven’t done an analysis over past seasons, so I can’t answer that rigorously instead of anecdotally.
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by Knee high to a duck on Mar 16, 2010 2:24 PM EDT up reply actions
The NFL almost never changes penalties/fines/suspensions just because a player is hurt.
Aim for the head baby Jesus
Yeah and in the NFL, you’re not penalized for being bigger and stronger than your opponent. Or told to take it easy on the other guy.
[OFF-TOPIC] Unless you’re playing on grass… but I’m 99% sure all NFL fields are turf now, which can make injuries even worse than playing on a natural surface… [/OFF-TOPIC]
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Nah, there are plenty of grass fields.
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by Knee high to a duck on Mar 16, 2010 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Tell that to Mike Sherrard, who while trying to keep his feet in bounds on a pass reception on astroturf managed to dislocate both hips…
Let's go Caps!
LOL
Stupid Ovechkin. If only he was smaller and weaker he’d never get suspended.
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If you listen to Bob McKenzie, Mike Babcock, and Alain Vigneault, in this case that’s probably true.
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by Knee high to a duck on Mar 16, 2010 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions
The flip side of that argument is that Colin Campbell, with decades more NHL experience than all of us, is right because he said so.
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Except that Bob McKenzie and Mike Babcock are actually generally respected in the hockey community.
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by Fehr and Balanced on Mar 16, 2010 8:12 PM EDT up reply actions
And if he didn’t like touching men so much.
Go Flyerz!!!
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by J.P. on Mar 16, 2010 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Ward wasn’t fined for that hit, they changed the rules after the season to make hits like that illegal.
Aim for the head baby Jesus
Pretty sure he was fined for it and a number of other clean hits he made that resulted in injuries that weren’t called on the field.
Suspend Colin Campbell!
He wasn’t, he was fined the week before that hit , the hit on Keith Rivers that knocked him out for the season didn’t even merit a review from the league, because they decided it was within the rules. (And I can’t believe you think a helmet to the jaw is a clean hit)
Aim for the head baby Jesus
He didn’t lead with the helmet to the jaw. Initial contact was all shoulder.
Killer_Carlson and Steckel Me Elmo are like brothers to me. And when I say brothers I don't mean like actual brothers. I mean it like how black people use it, which is more meaningful, I think.
by Fehr and Balanced on Mar 16, 2010 8:14 PM EDT up reply actions
And please remember to stand by this viewpoint when it’s someone other than a Capital.
There’s a lot of comments here to the effect that Downie deserves something for slewfooting Crosby. Even though Crosby wasn’t injured and you might say is our sworn enemy. Is that good enough?
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by CapitalCentre on Mar 16, 2010 4:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Arguing that’s a minor is absurd. My points all stand on that basis.
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by James Mirtle on Mar 16, 2010 3:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Similarly, the "Caps fans think it was a clean hit" angle is a red herring
Well, not according to more than a few folks I heard from on twitter on Sunday.
Glad to hear that it’s a minority view, though.
Down Goes Brown - Unapologetically nostalgic for the past. Brutally realistic about the present. Grudgingly optimistic about the future.
by Down Goes Brown on Mar 16, 2010 1:52 PM EDT up reply actions
I find that the average Twitterer is somewhere in between “YouTube Commenter” and Puck Daddy" Commenter" in rationale thinking.
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5 minutes for meme-icry
I’m bored of seeing 8 referred to as reckless. He’s ruthless—and the difference matters.
I’m fine with reckless. I think it describes him well. He’s a beast who plays the game slightly out of control at times. To me, that’s reckless.
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Reckless: marked by lack of proper caution : careless of consequences
Reckless is absolutely the right word. He plays the game with “wild abandon” or like he’s going to “live forever” or “without concern for his body.” I think pretty much all of those are covered under “reckless.”
GUTEN TAAAAAAAAAAAAG!
“Out of control” blows Campbell up on Sunday: The D was vulnerable to a much rougher ride than Ovechkin gave him. Much.
“Out of control” probably takes a lot of retaliatory penalties for the dirty shit that’s done to him every.single. game.
“Out of control” is a crummy leadership quality; you don’t see a lot of really coachable athletes, admired by their peers © and rivals (Pearson), who are reckless.
I think Ovechkin’s a lot smarter (“beast?” wow) and a lot more principled about the game than the reckless use of the word reckless gives him credit for.
Not my word – take it up with Bruce, the guy who has coached his last ~200 games.
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Bruce is also considerably less expert in language than he is with hockey, so I’m taking that with a grain of salt.
I’m in agreement with the reckless characterization, just saying that I don’t necessarily think Bruce chooses his words in the same way that say, GMGM would.
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by Knee high to a duck on Mar 16, 2010 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions
BB also reneged on his usage of the word, or at least clarified his meaning, IIRC.
by DrinkingPartner on Mar 16, 2010 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Right – once his media savvy handlers got to him.
Bruce speaks his mind and the truth when he’s riled up. It’s part of why I, personally, love him. And he meant “reckless” and I think it’s a perfectly good description of the rough edges to Alex’s game.
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BB uses ‘reckless’ like the Rink uses ‘rec’. I’d agree it’s a suitable adjective for Ovechkin’s game, but it’s emerging as the adjective for Ovechkin. Which I think is myopic, and a shame.
Like I said, I think it’s a good way – probably the best way – to describe the rough edges of his game. Would I use it if I was given one word to describe Alex Ovechkin, the hockey player? Of course not.
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And doesn’t he use “reckless” as a compliment? Or at least sometimes he does?
Maybe in hindsight he would have chosen another word.
by Gin and Tonic on Mar 16, 2010 3:09 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
McPhee was ruthless after trading for Fedorov
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Mar 16, 2010 8:51 PM EDT up reply actions
I haven’t seen any explanation from the NHL explaining the reasoning for the suspension, have you? If not, it is all conjecture.
by MikeBrady on Mar 16, 2010 2:11 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Good point, honestly.
They made a proper distinction between Ovie’s hit and LaPierre’s. The latter was obviously an intent to injure after his man beat him cleanly to the net.
Ovie was just reckless.
“If you have a young kid growing up who wants to be a hockey player you want him to be Alex Ovechkin: compete, hit, skate.”
by Stephen Pepper on Mar 16, 2010 1:32 PM EDT reply actions 3 recs
That’s one of the things that bothers me the most…in terms of the media’s reaction. I assure you that’s exactly what they preach to their kids…and if they coach, to their players. Forgetting the fact that anyone that grew up playing the game heard something similar…if not identical.
by Yoshietree on Mar 16, 2010 1:42 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
And “finish your check” is heard in hockey coaching roughly once every 5 seconds – and we all know that “finishing your check” means “hit them even though the puck is gone”.
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I’m always curious as to the mechanics of such statements. Some have the unmistakable tone of a lawyer or an agent having written them in whole or in large part (Eldrick? NFL police blotter of the week?). This reads as if someone sat down with Ovechkin and asked him what he wanted to say, then polished the edges. It doesn’t seem entirely written in Ovechkin’s tone, but some of that seems to leak through, too.
If you've read this far...seek help.
Perhaps he wrote it in his native tongue, in which he is obviously more eloquent than English, and had it properly translated.
Because now I can justify browsing and commenting during the work day with the argument that I am promoting my business.
by Sombrero Guy on Mar 16, 2010 1:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Honestly
I’d be shocked if they even bothered asking him.
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Nate’s got his tone down pat from his few days of ghosttweeting.
by Ames on Mar 16, 2010 1:51 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I’m inclined to agree with you. I’m also having a problem with the news report saying he apologized for his actions. As far as I read it, he’s sorry Campbell is hurt, but he’s not sorry for the way he plays. An apology says he believes he did something wrong.
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I think that the call should have been a double minor for boarding. Maybe the game misconduct, but the suspension is un-called for. At first i thought that campbell did a good job of selling the potential injury so he would get tossed from the game. Little did i know the broken clavicle/ribs were real, so i guess the game misconduct was deserving? But the suspension is not. The league is just trying to make an example of ovechkin, just because of all the talk about head hits. They’re trying to say ‘hey we will suspend a superstar’ if he hits someone and it is a dangerous situation. Something is terribly wrong with the leagues disciplinary system, if Cooke isnt suspended for his hit on Savard. There’s many incidents every game where people are ‘pushed’ into the boards, but no calls. Since when is finishing a check a penalty. From what I remember being tought hockey that is a good thing. Just because a guy got injured doesnt make it a suspension. People are injured from getting hit every year.
I think the league wants Crosby to win the scoring race (good for his image you know…especially after sinking the states in the olympics). Just a thought
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by Caps Canadian Connection on Mar 16, 2010 1:57 PM EDT reply actions
Re: calling it a minor or double-minor instead.
For one thing, there is no double-minor for boarding. Maybe there should be, but the ref didn’t have that option available.
Further, the rulebook is clear on what distinguises a minor from a major: it’s “based upon the degree of violence of the impact with the boards”.
You can argue about it being boarding if you really want to, but if it’s boarding it absolutely has to be a major. That was some serious impact.
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by Down Goes Brown on Mar 16, 2010 2:01 PM EDT up reply actions
they would have been better off calling it a hit from behind. The rules for boarding only call for a misconduct if there’s a head injury.
Suspend Colin Campbell!
Looking at the way Campbell went into the boards (speed, violence, angle) and how long he was down I think it was fair to assume that he’d hurt his head.
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Since he was cradling his arm but moving his head without problems I don’t think that assumption could be made.
(Yes, I know about the avatar hounding - just pretend mine is invisible.)
You ever get concussed playing hockey? It doesn’t paralyze your neck
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I’ve been concussed wrestling and the last thing I wanted to do was move my head.
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by Knee high to a duck on Mar 16, 2010 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Well surely your singular personal experience holds true for every other circumstance regarding head injuries.
Sorry PPP, but you were just proven wrong.
I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.
If you’re going to ask if someone has ever experienced the situation, you cannot be surprised, or dismiss that person’s anecdote because it doesn’t jive with the point you’re trying to make.
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by Knee high to a duck on Mar 16, 2010 3:09 PM EDT up reply actions
last time I had a concussion, it knocked me out cold. Kinda like Marc Savard and David Booth. so, yeah, I wasn’t moving my head, either.
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Yeah
And I’ve had a concussion and kept skating through the hit.
My point is that all the refs can see is that he hit the boards hard in a fashion that it’s very easy to assume there was a head injury.
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but the refs shouldn’t be handing out penalties based on assumed injuries. And that’s my problem with this whole damn fucked up system of “justice” in the NHL
Kung-fu Rink Rabbit
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by RedBirdie on Mar 16, 2010 3:12 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Woah...
Birdie’s mad now. She dropped the f-bomb!
hides!
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Birdie swears like a sailor in real life, but respects that fact that JP would like his community to not read like the script to the South Park movie. :)
Kung-fu Rink Rabbit
The Blood Cult of Matt Bradley. Tune in Wednesday when Japers Rink offers their first burnt offering to Matt Bradley to give him an endless supply of the blood for his strident ways.
I knew there was a reason I liked you. :-)
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there’s a place for cursing here. There just isn’t a place for “fuck fuckity FUCK FUCK FUCK!” and “donkey raping shit eater” and such.
sorry, JP, I’ll stop now.
Kung-fu Rink Rabbit
The Blood Cult of Matt Bradley. Tune in Wednesday when Japers Rink offers their first burnt offering to Matt Bradley to give him an endless supply of the blood for his strident ways.
Oooh.
:Gets out dictionary, learns new words:
by DrinkingPartner on Mar 16, 2010 3:29 PM EDT up reply actions
are you telling me you think the guy doing inappropriate things to the donkey should be eating this?
Kung-fu Rink Rabbit
The Blood Cult of Matt Bradley. Tune in Wednesday when Japers Rink offers their first burnt offering to Matt Bradley to give him an endless supply of the blood for his strident ways.
How do they test for head injuries then other than in teh case of grade 2 concussions and up?
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the refs shouldn’t be handing out penalties based on assumed injuries
T-H-I-S
Game-Over Green? Canada-Over Carlson!
by Scott in Shaw on Mar 16, 2010 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Campbell wasn’t concussed. No mention of any head injury at all in the Hawks’ statement today.
I have a C on my heart.
Right
But it’s not unreasonable for refs to look at the play and think that he did.
There’s not really a test that they can do to determine it.
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I think it would be a lot of work to get the CAT scan out on the ice
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It’s pretty easy to give an initial diagnosis of a potential concussion on the spot, ass
Suspend Colin Campbell!
Really?
I have no idea how you’d do it through the ass but I’m not a doctor, I just play one on the internet.
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Maybe he’s talking about a spot ass?
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by YvonLabresMoustache on Mar 16, 2010 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions
What’s a dog’s ass have to do do with this?
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Maybe its some sort of venereal disease?
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by YvonLabresMoustache on Mar 16, 2010 3:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Name-calling… nice. Oh, and warned.
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Hate you for life
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the first thing any first responder is going to do with a suspected concussion is run through the basic diagnostic measures. Check to see if/how well the pupils react to light, ask the person to remember three simple things are repeat back, etc. The severity of a concussion can later be determined at the hospital, but its pretty simple to determine if there is a head injury of some sort.
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Ok. That makes sense. Now, there’s a small tweak they could make the calling the penalty. Have the trainer do that.
Now, let’s say they implement that and the ref thinks there’s no head injury and the trainer says that there is and now Mike Green’s kicked out of the game even though the player he hit misses only a couple of minutes and has no concussion. Do you freak out?
The ref can only go based on what he sees and I think it was a reasonable assumption to believe that there could have been an injury to the head.
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Or...
…they could just make the rule that if you get a boarding major for ANY reason, it comes with a game misconduct, period.
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Yes
That’s better but then it’s still subjective.
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No, it’s just whether it’s a major penalty or a minor penalty is subjective, which the rule is to begin with. It’s speckled with “at the referee’s discretion” throughout.
Really, the thing’s badly worded as hell.
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Get ready for the headshots rule then. That’s a whole new can of worms.
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Don’t I know it.
I’ve read some of these rules a dozen times or more every time the issue comes up. And that’s a topic for another post… but I’d love to dissect the rulebook for grammar problems that cause problems in how the rules are interpreted.
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we’re back to the issue of I don’t think injury should play a role in determining discipline.
I was simply trying to educate you on the basics on first responder diagnosis of head/brain injuries. You said they’d need to lug a CAT scan out on the ice. My experience, on both sides, says otherwise.
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Well, I was being facetious with the cat scan comment. I’m actually not an EMT so I don’t know how easy it is to diagnose a concussion/head injury
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They could teach the refs basic first aid (considering the nature of hockey, this would not be a bad idea…)
Let's go Caps!
I’d be surprised if they didn’t know basic first aid. The trainer’s normally not far away though.
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They could say: hey trainers, he ok? is it his face/neck?
Or they could just change the rule to say “injury” and be done with it.
Head/neck seems a strange distinction.
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by Down Goes Brown on Mar 16, 2010 3:46 PM EDT up reply actions
That’s what I said. Yeah. Any boarding major = game misconduct. Automatic. Out you go, there’s the door, don’t use all the hot water, or your team will be mad.
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I was basing it on how I have seen other players move or not move on the ice who have had head injuries. His movements weren’t following the head injury movement patterns.
(Yes, I know about the avatar hounding - just pretend mine is invisible.)
Those cases are the extreme though. Not all concussions leave a guy like Booth and Savard.
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Didn’t Pothier play on for a few minutes before getting off the ice for a year?
Suspend Colin Campbell!
Hell, Troy Aikman played and won a Super Bowl after a concussion. He said (something to the effect of) that he didn’t remember any of the game.
that’s gross negligence on the part of the coaches and training staff, imo.
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Still happens all the way down to the high school level. They’re making strong moves to stop it from happening, however.
Rugby has a law that says if you have a concussion you must sit out 3 games, minimum to recover.
Suspend Colin Campbell!
they would have been better off calling it a hit from behind. The rules for boarding only call for a misconduct if there’s a head injury.
Yeah, that’s a fair point and I’d like to see the NHL explain that one.
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by Down Goes Brown on Mar 16, 2010 2:10 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t think the rules only allow a misconduct in the event of head/face injuries – they demand one if there is head and/or face injury, but allow one in other circumstances, according to the discretion of the ref. That’s my reading, anyway.
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It may be called that way, but it does not specify that you can call a misconduct under any circumstances other than the head and/or face injury.
Every other place in the rulebook where a misconduct CAN be called, it’s spelled out.
In this case, it is ONLY spelled out for head and/or face injury.
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The problem I have is this incident, which was very similar (and I’m sure everyone has seen it – Craig Adams on Ovechkin) – in which NO penalty was called on the ice, and NO supplemental discipline was involved. But if what Ovechkin did was boarding, then so was this.
I find it interesting that Frederic L’Ecuyer was on the ice for both incidents. The other referee was different – Tim Peel for this incident, Dan O’Halloran for the more recent.
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Word. When you’re suspended, you lawyer up and let the mouthpieces earn their keep.
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It might be canned, but I’m glad he/Caps PR department began with an apology for Campbell’s injury. It won’t put him back on the ice but it would have been unsatisfactory to Hawks fans and Ovi’s detractors had he led his statement with his disappointment in the decision or even his commitment to fair play. A dude’s season is over, and Ovi put that first.
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Ow.
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by Chris Burton on Mar 16, 2010 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions
How come we never see boutros’ 1 through 22?
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Never mention them.
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by boutros23 on Mar 16, 2010 2:24 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
WHAT DID YOU DO TO THEM!?
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Alain Vigneault on OV suspension: “It’s just one player being stronger than the other. If there’s no injury there’s probably no suspension”
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by Knee high to a duck on Mar 16, 2010 2:40 PM EDT reply actions
It’s really not a strength issue when you shove a guy from behind.
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It can have bearing on how far he goes.
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by Chris Burton on Mar 16, 2010 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Alain Vigneault and apparently Mike Babcock disagree.
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Relatively intelligent individuals both, I’d say.
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by Chris Burton on Mar 16, 2010 2:47 PM EDT up reply actions
This isn’t rocket science. It’s not hard to knock someone off balance when they’re moving quickly and don’t see you.
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I agree its not rocket science. As JP pointed out, the strength of Steve Sullivan or Brian Gionta is going to have less effect on you than Ovechkin, Dion Phaneuf, Shea Weber or whoever.
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by Chris Burton on Mar 16, 2010 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions
He saw him, which is why he did what he did.
by DrinkingPartner on Mar 16, 2010 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions
There’s no chance the Campbell doesn’t know Ovechkin is coming for him. For one, he gets hit with the stick beforehand. For another, he doesn’t make the reverse away from the pressure that he does if he thinks he’s not going to get hit.
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by Knee high to a duck on Mar 16, 2010 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Exactly. If he didn’t know Ovi was behind him, why would he just not have carried the puck to the back of the net like every normal defenseman would instead of pulling a risky reverse in the corner. Of course he knew he was there.
You understand the difference between physically seeing something and knowing or guessing it’s there right?
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What’s the difference in the distinction, here?
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by Knee high to a duck on Mar 16, 2010 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions
That Campbell, a very good hockey player, probably has a fair idea that someone would be behind him and that he should avoid that player.
That doesn’t give him any options to not get annihilated if a forechecker shoves him in the numbers into the boards.
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I don’t parse what you’re saying here, can you clarify?
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by Knee high to a duck on Mar 16, 2010 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Campbell probably knew Ovechkin was there because he’s a smart player. The question remains; how does that stop Ovechkin from pushing Campbell from behind?
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He should have done exactly when Denis Potvin said this morning. He should never have twisted his body to reverse the puck and instead protected himself by using a defenseman’s best friend-the net and come out the other side.
He was in the process of going around the net without the puck when he got hit.
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Sorry
“pushed”
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Which is where any good forechecker is going to catch him.
by DrinkingPartner on Mar 16, 2010 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Campbell knew Ovechkin was there because that’s who he was racing for the puck against, and Ovechkin tapped him with the stick before he got there. Smart has nothing to do with it and it did give him the opportunity to avoid getting clocked by going around the net.
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by Knee high to a duck on Mar 16, 2010 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Tapping a guy with your stick doesn’t give you license to board him.
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It does however, let him know where you are and the direction you’re coming from, which is the point I was rebutting. Campbell knew. Ovechkin shouldn’t have boarded him, but Campbell knew beyond a shadow of a doubt.
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by Knee high to a duck on Mar 16, 2010 3:13 PM EDT up reply actions
It does however, let him know where you are and the direction you’re coming from
No it doesn’t.
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Combined with knowing you’re in a footrace for the loose puck? I’d say it does.
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by Knee high to a duck on Mar 16, 2010 3:16 PM EDT up reply actions
no. Anyone who has actually played hockey knows that the argument you just made makes absolutely zero sense.
You’re in a race with a forechecker for a puck, get it, reverse it, get hit with a stick and you don’t know someone’s coming for you after you looked over your shoulder? Not buying that.
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by Knee high to a duck on Mar 16, 2010 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions
First of all, how is it a footrace? Campbell is clearly 2 steps ahead of Ovechkin. Second, in +20 years of playing competitive ice hockey, I have never once had someone tap me on the leg to let me know they are going to hit me. To suggest otherwise is complete and total ignorance. Third, Campbell looks back before even gets to the puck, like every other defenseman in the history of hockey. Not only is it something you are taught from a young age, it’s also important to gauge how much time you have. Campbell didn’t throw the puck into the corner to avoid the hit, he threw it there to avoid turning it over. Big difference.
in +20 years of playing competitive ice hockey, I have never once had someone tap me on the leg to let me know they are going to hit me. To suggest otherwise is complete and total ignorance.
Apparently it’s a common enough practice to have been mentioned in the Ovechkin-on-Heward hit.
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First of all, how is it a footrace? Campbell is clearly 2 steps ahead of Ovechkin.
And if he lets up, Ovechkin is going to get there in time to cause a turnover.
Second, in +20 years of playing competitive ice hockey, I have never once had someone tap me on the leg to let me know they are going to hit me.
Good data point, I’ll keep it in mind.
Third, Campbell looks back before even gets to the puck, like every other defenseman in the history of hockey. Not only is it something you are taught from a young age, it’s also important to gauge how much time you have. Campbell didn’t throw the puck into the corner to avoid the hit, he threw it there to avoid turning it over. Big difference.
Exactly my point — he knew the forechecker was coming, made his twist up the boards and got hit. He knew he was going to turn it over if he didn’t race, didn’t look over his shoulder to see where the forechecker was and chose to make the play he did. He had to be aware of where Ovechkin was coming from.
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by Knee high to a duck on Mar 16, 2010 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions
a footrace implies that both players have a chance to get tot he puck first. It’s a race. Ovechkin and Campbell were not in a footrace. Ovechkin had no chance to beat Campbell to that puck.
You’re arguing semantics now.
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Hey, congrats – was waiting for the “anyone who has actually played hockey” card to be played. You win an OFB mug, my friend.
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I didn’t say that because I knew what the response would be but birky’s right.
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Except Knee High does play hockey, IIRC…
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No, I don’t. I’m a wrestler.
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by Knee high to a duck on Mar 16, 2010 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Mostly folkstyle, with a little bit of freestyle and greco, but this is getting way OT.
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by Knee high to a duck on Mar 16, 2010 3:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Silly
If it was Mexican he’d have said he was a “Luchador”
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Is that like a Laichitor?
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by Scott in Shaw on Mar 16, 2010 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions
I think you have a new nickname there.
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It’s actually shorthand for a Rink member named “Laich It or Lump It” (sorry for the inside joke)
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by Scott in Shaw on Mar 16, 2010 3:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Ah, OK...
Maybe I got you mixed up with someone else with a long handle, but I thought you played in the pickup game.
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Nope, I was there watching and drinking, but not playing.
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by Knee high to a duck on Mar 16, 2010 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions
OK, that’s where I got that you were there. :-)
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I don’t think it did. If you wanted to rebut the point in detail, you should have just done that, since it was so easy, right? Condescending with “you never played, you don’t get it” doesn’t do anything to move the discussion along, or make your point at all.
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by Knee high to a duck on Mar 16, 2010 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions
sorry, but I stand by my statement. Someone who plays competitive hockey would not have made the statement you did.
And someone who was interested in having a discussion wouldn’t say any of the things you just did.
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by Knee high to a duck on Mar 16, 2010 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
birky’s not trying to be condescending. Stuff like this is somewhat subtle in an “I’ll know it when I see it” way.
If you rounded up 100 people who weren’t Blackhawks or Capitals fans and played competitive hockey I’d say close to 100 of them would tell you what Ovechkin did was stupid at best.
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If you rounded up 100 people who weren’t Blackhawks or Capitals fans and played competitive hockey I’d say close to 100 of them would tell you what Ovechkin did was stupid at best.
Not what I’m arguing. It was stupid and reckless.
I was arguing that Campbell knew to a high degree of certainty that Ovechkin was there, not trying to absolve AO.
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by Knee high to a duck on Mar 16, 2010 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh and even if he wasn’t trying to be condescending, it still came off that way. In the same way that Ovechkin probably wasn’t trying to injure Campbell, but it still happened. Part of it is audience, part of it is communicator.
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by Knee high to a duck on Mar 16, 2010 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
If you rounded up 100 Caps fans who played competitive hockey, I think the overwhelming majority would agree that what he did was stupid at best. In this thread, I don’t think you’d find more than a small handful – if any – who think it was a smart play. So let’s not pretend that it’s all or nothing here.
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He’s hardly a troll just because he disagrees with you.
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He approaches troll territory not because he disagrees, but because he throws out condescending and dickish comments like “you wouldn’t understand if you don’t play hockey.”
Of all our iniquities ignorance may be the worst
by Killer_Carlson on Mar 16, 2010 9:48 PM EDT up reply actions
If nothing else, Campbell had looked back and seen someone coming at him, and I don’t doubt that he knew it was Ovechkin. He sure knows he’s going to get hit, I would think, or else he was a little groggy early in the morning.
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by red army line on Mar 16, 2010 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Campbell knowing a hit might be coming is no excuse for Ovie to hit him in an illegal manner
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by JaredFromLondon on Mar 16, 2010 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m not excusing him, though it may come across as that. We’ve already discussed the bad of the hit, and continue to. But it’s not as if Campbell is completely innocent as well. Definitely mostly Ovie’s fault, but not 100% as PPP (I think) wrote elsewhere.
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by red army line on Mar 16, 2010 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Campbell was vulnerable, not facing ovechkin and less than 6 feet from the boards while skating at a good clip
he is totally innocent
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by JaredFromLondon on Mar 16, 2010 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions
He’s 100% responsible because it all stems from his contact.
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It’s the whole “was he putting himself in a position to get hurt” thing. I think he was a little, but quite honestly, a ton of hockey players do it, and a GM I think called them out on it with practices like facing the boards to protect the puck and such. I guess we can agree to disagree.
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by red army line on Mar 16, 2010 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t believe in blaming the victim.
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Campbell shouldn’t have been wearing that mini skirt and heels, he was asking for it!
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by JaredFromLondon on Mar 16, 2010 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions
There was the other predictible reply.
Who’s got a Hitler reference?
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if the stiletto fits
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by JaredFromLondon on Mar 16, 2010 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Look, I was in college and needed some money. How much do you want to keep those pics quiet?
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Even Hitler wouldn’t hit a guy from behind.
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by Chris Burton on Mar 16, 2010 3:47 PM EDT up reply actions
he’d just annex the dude
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by JaredFromLondon on Mar 16, 2010 3:47 PM EDT up reply actions
If we let Hitler hit Brian Campbell from behind, there will be peace in our time.
GUTEN TAAAAAAAAAAAAG!
by Wheeler on Mar 16, 2010 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
…I don’t think I could have constructed a pair of sentences more poorly if I’d tried.
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by Knee high to a duck on Mar 16, 2010 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah
Until it’s Letang or Lidstrom out for the season with broken ribs and a broken clavicle on a hit from behind.
Then I doubt they espouse the same sentiment.
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Sure it is. If that’s Brian Gionta exerting a similar amount of his total force, Campbell probably doesn’t even feel him.
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to be fair
I’ll buy that Ovechkin is stronger, but I think the bottom line is that the play didn’t need to be made. I was listening to the interview link with bobby clarke and he said something that made a lot of sense, he said the point of the game is to get the puck it and put it in the other guys net and if players are spending their time trying to get the puck then they aren’t going to be in positions to do something illegal/deliberately hurtful because they’ll be going for the puck. Clarke was talking about Cooke’s shoulder going into Savards head, but it applies to Ovechkin as well. He definitely lines guys up from across the rink at times; fine, as long as its not continuously charging opponents; but there are times when by the time he arrives the better play is to continue the forecheck and chase the puck. One of those times is when you’re close to the boards and the player has his back facing you, rotating or not. Ovie has to learn the smarter play, he has to reign it in a tad and he’ll be fine. He has simply got to learn that lesson, fairly taught or not, because the next dangerous play is going to cost him more than just a couple games, and it might just cost his team a chance to hoist the cup.
by The Jade Donkey on Mar 16, 2010 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Thing is, getting to the defensemen and punishing them physically, while not paying immediate dividends, sometimes helps later in games or series when defensemen are banged up or try to avoid the hit (see first Caps-Flyers game, Chris Pronger—>Ovechkin goal)
Cидни Kросби: Александр Oвечкин, он твой папа теперь
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by red army line on Mar 16, 2010 3:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Sure, absolutely. My point isn’t ’don’t finish your check on a forecheck’, its just to make the smarter play. Campbell got hurt, it was not a powerhouse Ovechkin hit (far from it, it was a shove), but bad things happen and now the most important thing, for Ovechkin, (the league has its own issues, which I addressed in a fan post), is that he learns to pick his spots better, because the next suspension is gonna hurt and could cost his team the championship. THey’re gunning for him now, and there can’t be any more ‘game moments’. Don’t change the style, just be smarter. I think Knuble’s advice will serve him well.
by The Jade Donkey on Mar 16, 2010 3:53 PM EDT up reply actions
I think there are two ways we’re looking at this…
1) Ovie made a hit that he shouldn’t have tried to make
2) Ovie mistimed a hit that he should try and make
I think you’re in the former camp, I’m in the latter.
Cидни Kросби: Александр Oвечкин, он твой папа теперь
Capitals Coming: for Capitals fans no more intelligent than myself
by red army line on Mar 16, 2010 3:57 PM EDT up reply actions
That’s definitely true. There are times I see Ovie stay lined up for a hit when I’d rather see him break off and chase the puck which just left the guy’s stick.
Perspective
In light of recent events, does the suspension seem. . . suspect?
Of course it does. But this is waaaaay too many electrons wasted on a dead topic.
All the arguments have been made. Those who feel that he deserved a suspension aren’t going to be swayed at this point. Likewise for the people who think this was a bunk suspension.
We’re leading our division by 14 points. 14!
We’ve got 5 more points than the best Western Conference team.
Our goal differential is 20 more than the next-best team.
We just lost our best player for two games, but we’ve played pretty damn well without him in the lineup this year.
Chicago just lost one of their top defensemen for the rest of the season.
J.P.‘s got a kick-ass post up about something that actually influences our chances of winning the Stanley Cup, and we’re all sitting around discussing the physics of a skate hitting a divot for the third day in a row. . .
WTF?
There's a fine line between arrogance and ignorance and only I manage to erase that line.
by D'ohboy on Mar 16, 2010 3:04 PM EDT reply actions 4 recs
There’s a front-page?
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Of course! Where do you think we do all our Sid-bashing? Blind homerism in defense of AO is only half of what we do here.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
Blind homerism in defense of AO=50%
Sid Bashing=30%
Generating 1,000 comments about Alzner’s latest reassignment to Hershey=10%
Hating Canada=10%
Kung-fu Rink Rabbit
The Blood Cult of Matt Bradley. Tune in Wednesday when Japers Rink offers their first burnt offering to Matt Bradley to give him an endless supply of the blood for his strident ways.
by RedBirdie on Mar 16, 2010 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Only 10% Canada bashing? We don’t post enough here.
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we’re much too busy with out blind homerism to be bother by your pesky little gnats more than 10% of the time.
Kung-fu Rink Rabbit
The Blood Cult of Matt Bradley. Tune in Wednesday when Japers Rink offers their first burnt offering to Matt Bradley to give him an endless supply of the blood for his strident ways.
that’s because on a certain sunday, we could have our usual 50% blind homerism and 10% Alzner and focused all of that onto Canada and Sid.
Kung-fu Rink Rabbit
The Blood Cult of Matt Bradley. Tune in Wednesday when Japers Rink offers their first burnt offering to Matt Bradley to give him an endless supply of the blood for his strident ways.
Chis Smith related posts=10%
If you pay peanuts, you get monkeys.
Founding member of the Tyler Sloan Fan Club
Careful, I think we’re exceeding 100% now.
"The Caps fan doesn't say, 'is the glass half full' or 'is the glass half empty'. He wonders when the glass is going to spill."
That’s Flyers math
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And VGH% about how awesome it is to have Pronger signed into his 40s.
Go Flyers!
Of all our iniquities ignorance may be the worst
by Killer_Carlson on Mar 16, 2010 9:58 PM EDT up reply actions
We always give 150%
If you pay peanuts, you get monkeys.
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Wow, I thought the term was always 110%. I guess we’re just that extraordinary here.
"The Caps fan doesn't say, 'is the glass half full' or 'is the glass half empty'. He wonders when the glass is going to spill."
Blind homerism in defense of AO=50%
Sid Bashing=30%
Generating 1,000 comments about Alzner’s latest reassignment to Hershey=10%
Hating Canada=10%
You forgot Chris Bourque love.
Because now I can justify browsing and commenting during the work day with the argument that I am promoting my business.
by Sombrero Guy on Mar 16, 2010 4:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Chis Smith related posts=10%
You missed it above.
"The Caps fan doesn't say, 'is the glass half full' or 'is the glass half empty'. He wonders when the glass is going to spill."
ha. Hadn’t gotten down that far yet
Because now I can justify browsing and commenting during the work day with the argument that I am promoting my business.
by Sombrero Guy on Mar 16, 2010 4:23 PM EDT up reply actions
we’ve been quite short of the Bourque lovely, lately.
The Alzner stuff goes back to something that popped up in the Clips thread today.
Kung-fu Rink Rabbit
The Blood Cult of Matt Bradley. Tune in Wednesday when Japers Rink offers their first burnt offering to Matt Bradley to give him an endless supply of the blood for his strident ways.
should have ended by comment with
/October 2009’d
Because now I can justify browsing and commenting during the work day with the argument that I am promoting my business.
by Sombrero Guy on Mar 16, 2010 4:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Suspect? Ovechkin boarded a player who’s going to miss two months. For that he’ll sit out two games.
The punishment fits the crime.
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Nice try… ;)
There's a fine line between arrogance and ignorance and only I manage to erase that line.
Nice try at what? It’s a dangerous play and shouldn’t be part of the game.
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I just made a big post about how silly I find the whole discussion at this point (now going on three days), particularly when J.P.’s posted something more pertinent to our playoff chances, and you try to sucker me into talking about it some more. Sorry, not going to happen.
We disagree. I’m ok with that. There are valid points of view on both sides of the argument. It’s just not worth hashing out for the billionth time.
There's a fine line between arrogance and ignorance and only I manage to erase that line.
If you hate talking about this so much why continue posting in here?
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He posted one comment and then replied to two that were directed at him. Sounds like courtesy to me.
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I didn’t know D’ohboy was Canadian
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He’s just a good man. That’s all.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
Just thought I should say Alexander Ovechkin in his career has thrown 982 hits. He has been suspended for exactly two of those hits.
That’s 0.20366598778004072% of Alexander Ovechkin’s hits that have resulted in suspensions.
Driver and head Muckety-Muck of The Pavel Kubina Bandwagon
XBox Live: Oinkvechkin
LORD PALMERSTON!!
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by YvonLabresMoustache on Mar 16, 2010 3:19 PM EDT reply actions 5 recs
ha
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Rec’d for cool research. :-)
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exactly what i was saying elsewhere on the web. 2 suspensions and to many 9 bad hit incidents out of almost 1000 hits isn’t bad at all. It comes close to a 1 in 100 ratio of a bad or questionable hit.
Joe Corvo understands we hold "Penguins" with as much disregard as theatre people do Macbeth.
Now if we can only get Locker to start calling him Jumbo Joe. . .
Look, I think we can all say the hit was dangerous, and warranted some sort of punishment. Would it be safe to say that most of the beef regarding all this comes more from the lack of standards in discipline that it does from the actual play?
Driver and head Muckety-Muck of The Pavel Kubina Bandwagon
XBox Live: Oinkvechkin
LORD PALMERSTON!!
Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Mar 16, 2010 3:28 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Yes
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Just from my perspective, its more maddening that we have to play this game every single time a questionable hit occurs, and until the league gets its head out of its spot ass, its going to just get worse and worse and worse. It doesn’t seem like its THAT difficult to come up with some sort of standard in regards to discipline.
Where’s the line? Is it a simple judgment on “intent to injure”?
Driver and head Muckety-Muck of The Pavel Kubina Bandwagon
XBox Live: Oinkvechkin
LORD PALMERSTON!!
Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Mar 16, 2010 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions
I just thought: how sad is it that even though I can’t see YouTube videos at work I can look at the video title and know exactly what hit it was and how the arguments for and against went.
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So now “spot ass” needs to go in the glossary?
"Camaraderie, that's what the Washington Capitals are all about."
by CapitalCentre on Mar 16, 2010 5:10 PM EDT up reply actions
yup
I don’t think it should’ve been a two game suspension; but probably a major penalty. This is all water under the bridge and getting tiresome.
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by Chris Burton on Mar 16, 2010 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Thirded. I’m really sick of all this. Can’t we find another topic?
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when
JP posts the game thread it will get better :)
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by Chris Burton on Mar 16, 2010 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Max Talbot Predicts the Future! (or, Max Talbot clearly doesn’t understand logic!) is an interesting topic
:)
Kung-fu Rink Rabbit
The Blood Cult of Matt Bradley. Tune in Wednesday when Japers Rink offers their first burnt offering to Matt Bradley to give him an endless supply of the blood for his strident ways.
This incident made me remember an article about defensmen being in vulnerable positions while playing the puck in their own zone. I looked it up and thought this was a bit familar. Essentially it talks about getting rid of the trapizoid behind the nets, allowing the goalies to play the puck.
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/hockey/nhl/2009-11-10-gm-meetings_N.htm
it stated:
“Proponents of eliminating the trapezoid say that under the current rules, defensemen are vulnerable to injury-causing hits as they race back to play the puck.
With the crackdown on obstruction that came with the rules reform, nothing prevents forecheckers from coming after the defender at full speed."
I don’t think you can blame Ovechkin for doing his job on the forecheck. He was more or less doing what was expected of an NHL forward. If the Goalie had come out to play the puck would we of even be talking about this? Its honestly hard to tell from the replay if it would change anything, but there is evidently something to it.
by Be All You Can Berube on Mar 16, 2010 3:32 PM EDT reply actions
For those who thought Ovy's comments were too "canned"
Do you feel that you were rightly kicked out of the game before the end of the match?
"What happened, happened. It wasn’t the most powerful hit. I pushed him, but Campbell was in a bad position. I thought it would cost me two minutes, five at the most. But the ref came up to me and said ‘game over’".
Were you surprised that Campbell fell the way he did after your hit?
"Really, yeah. I didn’t even hit him, I pushed him. This wasn’t my usual strong hit. But in hockey any moment can be dangerous. He fell badly…"
Chicago captain Jonathan Toews said after the game that players have to respect one another. Do you think he had you in mind?
"Maybe. I respect every opponent— in the locker-room and on the street. But on the ice we play for our teams and we make hard hits. Sometimes it hurts. But that is hockey. Somebody hits, and somebody falls… nobody can escape that."
Did you watch the game in the locker-room?
"Yeah, and was really happy for the guys. We were down 0:3, but we stood up and won. This was an important match which really showed Washington’s spirit."
What do you think, will the league give you a further penalty?
"We’ll see…. Again, that’s hockey."
"I tried to capture the spirit of the thing"
by tuvanhillbilly on Mar 16, 2010 3:40 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
must be a slow news day in Leafs Land, eh?
Kung-fu Rink Rabbit
The Blood Cult of Matt Bradley. Tune in Wednesday when Japers Rink offers their first burnt offering to Matt Bradley to give him an endless supply of the blood for his strident ways.
nah, one of our prospects got suspended, but we wrapped that one up nice and quick
Who wants to go to the Olive Garden?
by JaredFromLondon on Mar 16, 2010 3:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, that one was an easy call.
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Joe Finley’s partner in crime, no?
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
Matt MDK Frattin!
mess with him and he’ll smash you into the boards or throw your lawnmower off a roof
Who wants to go to the Olive Garden?
by JaredFromLondon on Mar 16, 2010 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah
Drunken Disorderly Frattin.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
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The PPP’ers are still in a wonderful daze since Toskala is gone and they’re wandering all over SBN.
President and sole member of the Erskine lobby.
wandering across SBN, like it is the desert :) fits nicely with our previous discussion of all the herring and lent.
Kung-fu Rink Rabbit
The Blood Cult of Matt Bradley. Tune in Wednesday when Japers Rink offers their first burnt offering to Matt Bradley to give him an endless supply of the blood for his strident ways.
Kind of
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"I disagree it was from behind – that’s our current chasm."
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Possibly damning evidence. It appears he’s made contact before BC turns.
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by Chris Burton on Mar 16, 2010 3:48 PM EDT up reply actions
It’s a lot better argument than “Ovechkin didn’t hit Campbell from behind”.
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Nope, it’s just an absolutely terrible screenshot of a YouTube video. And like Chris says above, could be seen both ways.
I’ve save you the trouble of raising your eyes a few inches, troll
Possibly damning evidence. It appears he’s made contact before BC turns.
Jesus, stop with the name-calling, people. And yes, “troll” is name-calling, especially when totally inapplicable.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
how the hell could you interprite that picture as anything other than “from behind”
I dont give a damn if the pixels are a little big,
the block of white pixels is BEHIND the block of red ones
Who wants to go to the Olive Garden?
by JaredFromLondon on Mar 16, 2010 3:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Because it’s ONE FRAME in a several second (at 16 FPS minimum) video?
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I’ve watched the vid a few times, and i dont recall the one where Campbell did a 180
feel free to post that one
Who wants to go to the Olive Garden?
by JaredFromLondon on Mar 16, 2010 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Just because it isn’t a hit to his chest doesn’t mean it is a direct hit from behind.
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agreed, I was just being a dork
Who wants to go to the Olive Garden?
by JaredFromLondon on Mar 16, 2010 3:57 PM EDT up reply actions
still, if you have another shot that counteracts the whole from behind thing, feel free to post it
Who wants to go to the Olive Garden?
by JaredFromLondon on Mar 16, 2010 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Someone else is already presenting that.
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From the Side Angle
It looks furthur away from the boards, and more from the side. Still no excuse for the hit just makes it a little less “dirty” though.
lots of numbers to be seen on the back of the jersey there.
Because now I can justify browsing and commenting during the work day with the argument that I am promoting my business.
by Sombrero Guy on Mar 16, 2010 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions
except if you watch the replay from one of the other angles you see Ovechkin’s hand in Campbell’s armpit. From your angle he at most had one hand on his back so either Ovechkin is super human and hurled BC 11’ into the boards with one hand he had the other on his shoulder
Joe Corvo understands we hold "Penguins" with as much disregard as theatre people do Macbeth.
Now if we can only get Locker to start calling him Jumbo Joe. . .
You generally can’t boil a play down into one frame.
If you pay peanuts, you get monkeys.
Founding member of the Tyler Sloan Fan Club
It’s a hit from behind.
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Wow, you can tell from that blur that he’s got his hand on Campbell’s back at that fraction of a second? All I see is one skater behind another.
"The Caps fan doesn't say, 'is the glass half full' or 'is the glass half empty'. He wonders when the glass is going to spill."
If Ovechkin is behind Campbell and hit him then…
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In that fraction of a second? You can tell from the blur? That’s all I’m getting at. You can’t freeze frame and determine it exactly.
"The Caps fan doesn't say, 'is the glass half full' or 'is the glass half empty'. He wonders when the glass is going to spill."
All I see is one skater behind another.
That’s all you need to see.
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Not all I need to see. Look, I’m no expert, but in a vacuum, how do I know that it isn’t followed by one of the skaters heading off in a different direction?
"The Caps fan doesn't say, 'is the glass half full' or 'is the glass half empty'. He wonders when the glass is going to spill."
So your concern is that at speed Ovechkin catches Campbell from behind and sort of sticks to him while he rotates Campbell 90 degrees before throwing him into the boards (which would still be boarding)?
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You’re missing the original point, which was that the damn screen capture was a piece of shit. Nothing more. I can see a slew foot coming in that frame, too, but that’s not what happened.
"The Caps fan doesn't say, 'is the glass half full' or 'is the glass half empty'. He wonders when the glass is going to spill."
Your claim that you see a slew foot coming is your attempt to be obtuse. You admit that you see one skater behind another which pretty much ends whether or not this is a hit from behind.
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We’re not going to agree on this, so forget it. I’m not saying it didn’t happen, I’m saying it’s not proof, it’s an assumption from what the generic “you” sees in an impressionist painting. It’s not an absolute.
"The Caps fan doesn't say, 'is the glass half full' or 'is the glass half empty'. He wonders when the glass is going to spill."
We’re not going to agree because even if we had an animated 3D movie you’d just say “nope”.
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Or you could just attribute to her positions that she’s actually taken, instead of deciding that since she doesn’t accept a single still as evidence (which has nothing to do with her conclusion on the play, simply that it’s not good evidence) she’s going to take the same position with an Avatar replay?
Only YOU can prevent idiots from commenting!
by Knee high to a duck on Mar 16, 2010 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions
In that screenshot, I can’t see if they’re making contact or not. That’s the point.
"Camaraderie, that's what the Washington Capitals are all about."
by CapitalCentre on Mar 16, 2010 5:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Idk I like Chemmy’s logic. I mean if you are behind the person and then hit the person….
I mean if the bank is being robbed, the cops show up and you have money in your hand….clearly you robbed the bank.
Joe Corvo understands we hold "Penguins" with as much disregard as theatre people do Macbeth.
Now if we can only get Locker to start calling him Jumbo Joe. . .
by breaklance on Mar 16, 2010 5:35 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
You admit that you see one skater behind another which pretty much ends whether or not this is a hit from behind.
except the skater in front turns.
by Natty Bumppo on Mar 16, 2010 8:25 PM EDT up reply actions
KNtaD referenced some side-view before that shows both numbers…link?
Cидни Kросби: Александр Oвечкин, он твой папа теперь
Capitals Coming: for Capitals fans no more intelligent than myself
by red army line on Mar 16, 2010 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions
I did?
Only YOU can prevent idiots from commenting!
by Knee high to a duck on Mar 16, 2010 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Maybe not you then. But someone I remember did. I haven’t been able to find such a video.
Cидни Kросби: Александр Oвечкин, он твой папа теперь
Capitals Coming: for Capitals fans no more intelligent than myself
by red army line on Mar 16, 2010 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions
But that’s not “the moment of truth” so to speak. That’s “I’m here.” Campbell turns a little and AO launches him, about 3/4 from behind. Still a bad hit, but not as directly from behind as that would make you believe it is.
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Someone needs to pull the whole thing apart, frame-by-frame.
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People have already made up their minds one way or the other. Whoever picks it apart might as well pick apart a dandelion to see if Laich loves him/her or not.
President and sole member of the Erskine lobby.
Silly, you use DAISIES for that, not dandelions. Sheesh!
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I couldn’t remember which it was. You win some, you lose some.
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and, duh, Brooksie loves ME. Other girls don’t need to waste their time!
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Right—which is what I was trying to point out.
The fact is, people are going to interpret this however they damn well please and we can’t do a thing about it.
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by Chris Burton on Mar 16, 2010 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions
this is exactly right. still a bad hit, but absolutely not directly from behind.
by Natty Bumppo on Mar 16, 2010 7:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Serious question for interpretation of the rules. How much of the hitting from behind rule is applied to 1) Torso position, 2) Hip/leg positions and 3) velocity vector? Because the velocities, while not totally orthagonal, are closer to that than aligned.
Only YOU can prevent idiots from commenting!
by Knee high to a duck on Mar 16, 2010 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions
The best indicator of where a hockey player actually is is the hips.
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Hips don’t lie… or so I’m told.
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shakira is a smart lady
well her hips at least are
Who wants to go to the Olive Garden?
by JaredFromLondon on Mar 16, 2010 3:57 PM EDT up reply actions
So in determining hits from behind, we’re looking for hips? Or torsos? Or some combination? Does velocity factor into it?
Only YOU can prevent idiots from commenting!
by Knee high to a duck on Mar 16, 2010 5:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Definitely more from behind than the side, and Ovechkin definitely pulls up rather than delivering a typical hard hit. It looks to me, especially from this vantage point, that Campbell took a much tighter turn than Ovechkin expected. It almost looks as if Cambell was going to try and cut in front of the net.
Because now I can justify browsing and commenting during the work day with the argument that I am promoting my business.
by Sombrero Guy on Mar 16, 2010 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Rec'd
Also looks like it would have been shoulder-on-shoulder had Campbell not turned his upper-body to reverse it.
Cидни Kросби: Александр Oвечкин, он твой папа теперь
Capitals Coming: for Capitals fans no more intelligent than myself
by red army line on Mar 16, 2010 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions
But again, there is also a responsibility on the player with the puck to avoid placing himself in a dangerous and vulnerable position. I am by no means saying the play wasn’t stupid on Ovechkin’s part….but just saying that the onus…on some level…is on both players.
the rule for boarding actually states that the onus is on the hitter to make sure the “hittee” [paraphrasing] is not in a vulnerable position and they must avoid the hit if the hittee is.
Suspend Colin Campbell!
It actually states it both ways….
42.1 Boarding – A boarding penalty shall be imposed on any player or goalkeeper who checks an opponent in such a manner that causes the opponent to be thrown violently in the boards. The severity of the penalty, based upon the degree of violence of the impact with the boards, shall be at the discretion of the Referee.
There is an enormous amount of judgment involved in the application of this rule by the Referees. The onus is on the player (or goalkeeper) applying the check to ensure his opponent is not in a vulnerable position and if so, he must avoid the contact. However, there is also a responsibility on the player with the puck to avoid placing himself in a dangerous and vulnerable position. This balance must be considered by the Referees when applying this rule.
Any unnecessary contact with a player playing the puck on an obvious "icing" or "off-side" play which results in that player being knocked into the boards is "boarding" and must be penalized as such. In other instances where there is no contact with the boards, it should be treated as "charging."
by Yoshietree on Mar 16, 2010 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I think another relevant frame is this one from a frame or two earlier:
Pretty clear that Ovi wasn’t just on his ass skating in his tracks – he’s coming at him at a decent angle.
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Then get up beside him and bowl him over. Or don’t make the hit.
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by James Mirtle on Mar 16, 2010 5:17 PM EDT up reply actions
the power of one frame
both numbers visible. especially since it was a push and not a body check, i don’t see how your pic proves that AO “hit him in the numbers.”
by Natty Bumppo on Mar 16, 2010 7:47 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
yup, that’s the moment of decision. Nicely captured.
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by bigonetimer on Mar 16, 2010 11:36 PM EDT up reply actions
several still frames coming up
give me a minute
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There’s another angle, too – from a hand-held at ice level – that gives a different feel.
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The ice level shows the play as what it is. Ovechkin shoved him on a play that while commonplace, has no business in the NHL because it does put people at an unnecessary risk of injury, Campbell’s footing came loose and then we see a guy knocked out for a season.
President and sole member of the Erskine lobby.
Ovechkin shoved him on a play that while commonplace, has no business in the NHL because it does put people at an unnecessary risk of injury
and yet it happens in every game and the NHL has shown absolutely no inclination to do much about it. That what makes the whole damn situation so frustrating. Also frustrating: the only thing consistent about NHL officiating is its inconsistency. Something needs to be done about that, but yet again, the NHL hasn’t shown any inclination to address what has become a rather glaring problem.
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by RedBirdie on Mar 16, 2010 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
This absolutely does not happen in every NHL game.
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and then we see a guy knocked out for a the rest of the season. Fixed.
The season is almost over. If this had happened earlier in the season Campbell wouldn’t be out for the entire season. Yes, he’d be out for months, but not a season.
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pics
One:
Two:
More next.
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The first one has Ovechkin looking STRAIGHT at Campbell’s numbers.
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Why do you hate Ovechkin?
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because Ovie doesn’t play for Toronto?
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I was snarking
"You want to start being part of the Rink? Fine, but more’s expected of you than John/Jane Cap Fan. Carry the cause of informed discussion to the unwashed masses and don’t crap in the yards of other SBN sites if you decide to go over there. They’re passionate about their teams too, no need to troll elsewhere and/or be a sore winner." --BP
second set
Three
Four
Five
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by Chris Burton on Mar 16, 2010 4:07 PM EDT up reply actions
finally
Six
Seven
No commentary from me, you decide.
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sorry
can’t change it, ask dell
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by Chris Burton on Mar 16, 2010 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions
I decided this thread has been one gigantic Nylander.
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by Ovechwin on Mar 16, 2010 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
pretty circles!
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I still think it’s a typical play, Ovechkin can’t let his man circle the net with a full head of steam.
On the other hand, he shouldn’t have shoved him. If he can’t make it a body check, he has no business whatsoever hitting him. It would have been interference by a mile if he put his body into him and it wouldn’t have been a blatant boarding if he shoved him.
I agree that it’s a major because there’s no double minor for the penalty but I disagree completely with the suspension. It’s not something we’re not going to see again tonight from any number of other Capitals or Panthers.
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It’s not a typical play.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVmifGf9SuA
“good hit by Laich”
President and sole member of the Erskine lobby.
That’s on Kane’s shoulder and not into the boards.
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Freeze it at 11 seconds. If that is Kane’s shoulder, i’m impressed that Kane is able to play with such a disfigured body.
President and sole member of the Erskine lobby.
It’s closer to the shoulder than Campbell, Kane’s a lot less vulnerable and the shove is into the net not the boards.
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Chemmy – Agree its from the side but look at Kane’s skates and look at Campbells in the photo above. Only a foot or two difference relative to the end boards.
The difference was the direction Kane’s momentum was taking him
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by Sombrero Guy on Mar 16, 2010 4:31 PM EDT up reply actions
The difference is that Kane is braced and not as vulnerable for a laundry list of reasons: he wasn’t heading at the boards, he wasn’t moving as fast, he got shoved into the net not the boards, etc.
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fair enough. I should have also added both players weren’t moving as fast as Campbell and Ovechkin.
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by Sombrero Guy on Mar 16, 2010 4:32 PM EDT up reply actions
still from the side
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by Sombrero Guy on Mar 16, 2010 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions
It’s still just as dangerous. If Kane didn’t catch so much of the net and only had his leg trip up on it, Kane is going headfirst into the boards. They’re both vulnerable.
How is one suspension worthy, but not the other?
President and sole member of the Erskine lobby.
Brooks Laich doesn’t get suspended by Colin Campbell. Colin Campbell gets suspended by Brooks Laich.
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by Sombrero Guy on Mar 16, 2010 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Why is punching someone assault and punching someone and knocking them out aggravated assault?
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But on a serious note, if we’re in the practice of protecting players then you suspend Laich a game for his shove and Ovechkin two. Ovechkin’s play certainly had a much higher chance of someone getting hurt, I’m not denying that.
So, that’s why one crime is one thing and one crime is another. They’re both still some forms of assault the same way that both plays were some form of reckless play.
President and sole member of the Erskine lobby.
I don’t see Laich’s play as in the same ballpark as Ovechkin.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=60WLV9-voOQ
“Dirty hit” By Craig Adams.
But apparently since Knuble jumped into it immediately no suspension can be called because dirty hits should be taken care of on ice….or atleast that’s half the message players get sent
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Now if we can only get Locker to start calling him Jumbo Joe. . .
and another video that has been popping up in thie discussion.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3fkgX6dXxE
Once right away in the video, once more at around 17 seconds in. Someone going for the puck gets hit partially from behind.
President and sole member of the Erskine lobby.
Lucic’s hit there is from behind and he also leaves his feet.
It’s also from almost a year ago. Come on this happens every game hit me up with more than one from this week.
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clearly from the side though.
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by Sombrero Guy on Mar 16, 2010 4:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Kane's skating
perpendicular to the boards, not directly at them at a high rate of speed.
Err, that’s what perpendicular means. I think the word you’re looking for is parallel, which Campbell is also closer to than perpendicular at the time of the hit.
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by Knee high to a duck on Mar 16, 2010 10:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Oops, parallel.
Campbell – lots of force towards the end boards.
Not really. Campbell is turning. He’s getting close to parallel.
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by red army line on Mar 17, 2010 10:46 AM EDT up reply actions
Ovie’s wide stance would do a congressman proud.
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by oldemystix on Mar 16, 2010 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
rec-ola
Driving under the influence of hockey since godknow's when.
by bigonetimer on Mar 16, 2010 11:34 PM EDT up reply actions
nicely done. Six kind of says it all.
Driving under the influence of hockey since godknow's when.
by bigonetimer on Mar 16, 2010 11:35 PM EDT up reply actions
you're all missing it
there was a second hitter, came in from the grassy knoll.
I have nothing interesting to say.
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Southeast Standings
| GP | W | L | OTL | PT | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
Washington
|
82 | 54 | 15 | 13 | 121 |
|
Atlanta
|
82 | 35 | 34 | 13 | 83 |
|
Carolina
|
82 | 35 | 37 | 10 | 80 |
|
Tampa Bay
|
82 | 34 | 36 | 12 | 80 |
|
Florida
|
82 | 32 | 37 | 13 | 77 |
(updated 4.12.2010 at 9:21 AM EDT)
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