Alex Ovechkin On His Suspension
"I am very sorry that Brian was injured and I hope he is able to return to his team soon. NHL hockey is a physical game. We all play hard every time we are on the ice and have battles each shift in every game we play so we can do our jobs and win. As players we must accept responsibility for our actions and I am no different but I did not intend to injure Brian and that is why I was disappointed with the NHL’s decision yesterday. Every time I have the honor to play for my team, I will continue to do what I have done since I was taught to play. I will play hard, play with passion and play with respect for my teammates, opponents and fans. I look forward to returning to my team and doing everything I can to be the best player I can be." - Release
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Key quote for me is:
“I will continue to do what I have done since I was taught to play.”
Good. Glad to hear.
Get used to more suspensions then.
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Are you actually suggesting that NHL supplemental discipline is predictable?
Or only with regards to Ovechkin?
by Stephen Pepper on Mar 16, 2010 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Nope
I’m saying that the spotlight on Ovechkin is going to get brighter with regard to the kinds of plays that he has occassionally made and that he sees no problem with.
And it won’t be a conspiracy when he gets dinged next.
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Can you prove that it won’t be a conspiracy? No. Therefore it is.
Checkmate, my friend.
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by J.P. on Mar 16, 2010 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Japers!
/Seinfeld’d
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Pronger’d, don’t you mean? To the extent that AO has been slotted into the Pronger category, i.e., a suspendable superstar?
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by Battenburg Baron on Mar 16, 2010 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions
tinypic.com
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by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Mar 16, 2010 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Well
He had none before this year right?
And now he’s at 2 and saying he’s not going to change anything about the way he plays hockey despite being involved in more than a handful of unpunished acts that could have drawn disciplinary action.
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if the Refs hadn’t blown it by giving him 5 and a game for the clean Kaleta hit, Ovechkin likely wouldn’t have been suspended for the knee on Gleason, and this would be the first suspension.
Because now I can justify browsing and commenting during the work day with the argument that I am promoting my business.
by Sombrero Guy on Mar 16, 2010 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions
That’s IF they even suspended him for it.
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I think it’s the other way around. I think this is the one he doesn’t get tagged for if Kaleta isn’t dumb. Gleason was knee-on-knee, way more blatant suspension territory.
by DrinkingPartner on Mar 16, 2010 2:05 PM EDT up reply actions
I took the suspension on the Gleason hit as being a “you got 2 game misconducts in a short period of time” kind of suspension. Since Gleason wasn’t hurt, I doubt that one play in a vaccum leads to a suspension.
Because now I can justify browsing and commenting during the work day with the argument that I am promoting my business.
by Sombrero Guy on Mar 16, 2010 2:40 PM EDT up reply actions
but then again, with the NHL disciplinary office, who the hell knows.
Because now I can justify browsing and commenting during the work day with the argument that I am promoting my business.
by Sombrero Guy on Mar 16, 2010 2:40 PM EDT up reply actions
I think it does simply because of the violence (there was violence) of that hit.
by DrinkingPartner on Mar 16, 2010 2:44 PM EDT up reply actions
I’ll take the occasional, arguably trumped up suspension over a tentative, ineffective, boring player. Ovechkin would not be the most dynamic player in the league if he changed his game and stopped finishing his checks.
I disagree with the notion that he’s a dirty player, but I suppose I don’t mind hearing people bleat about it as long as he is still playing with passion and reckless (omgz!) abandon. Do we really want him to turn into Jagr?
I’ll take the occasional, arguably trumped up suspension over a tentative, ineffective, boring player.
Thing is, it’s not mutually exclusive for him to play the way he does and not lay the occassional dirty hit. He’s not a dirty player but he’s made some dirty decisions.
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Thing is, it’s not mutually exclusive for him to play the way he does and not lay the occassional dirty hit.
Theoretically speaking that’s true. But I don’t think it’s that simple in application. If he had perfect decision making processes at high speed, he’d be totally unstoppable on the ice. He goes for plays that he might not be able to make, right up to the edge and sometimes he misses. The plays that he just barely makes are what separates him from the rest of the league, so saying that he can take the dirty decisions out of his game and continue to play the way he does isn’t useful.
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by Knee high to a duck on Mar 16, 2010 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, speed is an issue but he also makes those kinds of decisions all of the time with regards to passing and shooting so why is it hard for him to do the same when he sees an opponents’ numbers or knee?
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He makes those decisions all the time with shooting and passing and he usually gets them right. He doesn’t make the right decision 100% of the time in those categories either and has made more than a thousand hits in his career. I’m not sure why he’d have a higher success ratio making hitting decisions as opposed to puck decisions.
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by Knee high to a duck on Mar 16, 2010 2:00 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
It’s also a bit of a different kind of decision. You line yourself up to make a hit moving at 20mph it’s a little bit harder to get out of the way when the other player does something out of the ordinary a split second before you hit them. Moving the puck is something he’s demonstrated that he can do in any position, on the ice, in the air, with some guy sitting on him…
Suspend Colin Campbell!
by snowburnt on Mar 16, 2010 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Mike Knuble said that he thinks it’s possible for Ovie to learn to make better decisions. I’m just not buying the idea that if he takes some of these late, questionable hits out of his arsenal that it’ll make him less effective. I wish he would listen to his teammate and try to make that adjustment.
by Kolzilla on Mar 16, 2010 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
That’s a good response by a current NHLer
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I’m sick of the word dirty being thrown about. You make his actions sound premeditated. Dirty decisions? No. Decisions that led to dirty results, very few.
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I didnt plan on falling in that mud, guess I’m still clean!
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by JaredFromLondon on Mar 16, 2010 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions
i didnt plan to but I intended to?
logical sense not you make
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by JaredFromLondon on Mar 16, 2010 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions
If you don’t intend to get dirty, and you trip and fall in the mud, your mom doesn’t get mad at you for messing up your clothes and you don’t get grounded. It’s as simple as that.
by DrinkingPartner on Mar 16, 2010 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions
doesnt make me less dirty
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by JaredFromLondon on Mar 16, 2010 3:33 PM EDT up reply actions
This is a horrible analogy.
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it isnt the best (and was only half serious) but just because you didnt mean to be dirty doesnt make the play clean
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by JaredFromLondon on Mar 16, 2010 3:35 PM EDT up reply actions
But dirty play implies intent.
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how so?
thats not how I interpret the meaning
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by JaredFromLondon on Mar 16, 2010 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Dirty to me implies that you did something knowingly.
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I’d call that malicious.
See the Tucker VS Peca hit from the playoffs a while back, I loved Darcy Tucker but that low bridge was a dirty dirty hit (legal though)
Did he intend to shatter every bone in the lower half of Pecas body? probably not. but its still dirty
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by JaredFromLondon on Mar 16, 2010 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions
We could argue semantics all day.
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yep
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by JaredFromLondon on Mar 16, 2010 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions
I kind of agree with Jared here. A singular hit can be a dirty play without the player himself being a dirty player. Shea Weber’s elbow on some German in the WCs is an example of this.
A dirty play does not always imply intent.
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by Chris Burton on Mar 16, 2010 3:38 PM EDT up reply actions
I think we should clarify intent. Does anyone here think Ovechkin is a sociopath who wants to hurt people? I don’t think so.
But at the same time Ovechkin’s poor decision certainly doesn’t make me think he’s too worried about hurting Campbell.
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He couldn’t have foreseen what happened, I think is more the point.
by DrinkingPartner on Mar 16, 2010 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions
pushing someone from behind into the boards….not a lot else can happen, he is pretty much 95% going to go face first into the yellow line
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by JaredFromLondon on Mar 16, 2010 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions
He’s played enough hockey to know that shoving a guy from behind into the boards has a pretty good chance of not turning out well.
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I disagree it was from behind – that’s our current chasm.
by DrinkingPartner on Mar 16, 2010 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Um— where was the hit from if not behind? I don’t think he turned enough to make it NOT behind, but I’ve only seen it once.
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by Chris Burton on Mar 16, 2010 3:46 PM EDT up reply actions
It looked to me that AO caught his shoulder as Campbell was turning to face the boards. PPP, or Chemmy, or DGB (sorry, guys, don’t remember which) said that AO’s hand was on his numbers, and concluded it was from behind, with which I disagreed because the other half of AO wasn’t behind Campbell (but beside his left shoulder), which is necessary, to me, for it to be from behind.
by DrinkingPartner on Mar 16, 2010 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Me
It looks to my eye that his right hand is right in his numbers when he pushes him.
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Not sure I buy the distinction there. Someone who makes concious decisions to do dirty things is dirty, IMO.
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Well, the distinction, in my eyes, is that guys like Matt Cooke make those decisions looking to hurt whereas Ovechkin does them out of momentary stupidity.
Basically, I like him and don’t want to think of him as dirty.
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Brian Campbell on his way behind the net and hitting a divot at full speed momentary stupidity does not make.
by DrinkingPartner on Mar 16, 2010 2:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, let’s stop pretending that ‘toe-pick’ or the ‘divot’ had anything to do with that injury.
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Or let’s not. Watch the rotation — his body turns back into the direction that Ovechkin is pushing, the direct opposite of what you’d expect if he didn’t have some kind of lever underneath of him. What happened is implausible in the extreme without some kind of block under his foot.
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by Knee high to a duck on Mar 16, 2010 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Yep, didn’t happen, okay.
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He hit a divot, yes. Would he have been injured as badly or gone into the boards with as much force because of it if Ovie doesn’t touch him? It’s a hypothetical but most likely not.
Certainly not enough to begin trying to absolve Ovie of full responsibility.
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Certainly not enough to begin trying to absolve Ovie of full responsibility.
No one is trying to totally absolve Ovechkin, it should have been a penalty. Suspending him based on injury that was incurred at least partially because Campbell hit a divot doesn’t make sense, though.
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by Knee high to a duck on Mar 16, 2010 2:16 PM EDT up reply actions
What I am saying is that hitting the divot as he was slowing down wouldn’t have left him with a broken clavicle and broken ribs.
It’s 100% on Ovie.
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No, it’s not.
Basic physics. PART of it is on Ovi, and please, if you’re gonna use the guy’s nickname, spell it the way he does?
O-V-I.
Anyway, with the whole force = mass * acceleration thing… yes, he got a push from Ovechkin and maybe he avoids the divot if he doesn’t. But maybe he doesn’t avoid it, and just falls down on his own.
We never see THAT in a hockey game, do we?
Yeah, he hit the boards harder than he would have, but if he hadn’t hit the divot, he probably would not have hit the boards at all.
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Pfft spell his name the way he does then.
But back on point: he might not have hit the divot if Александр Михайлович Овечкин does not hit him.
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by PPP on Mar 16, 2010 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
Might, might, might.
That’s a lot of “what if’s” you’re playing there, PPP.
And fine. But Александр Михайлович Овечкин did not aim for the divot that Campbell hit. He didn’t go out and try to push him into it. He just pushed him.
Was it badly timed? YES.
Did it deserve a call? YES.
Was it 100% Ovechkin’s fault that Campbell got broken on the play? NO.
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Yeah
Just as many what ifs the other way.
Except that’s the way it played out and we know the result.
“he just pushed him.” when he was in a dangerous position.
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Wait a minute...
So was Downie’s play less dirty and less worthy of punishment than Ovie’s? By your logic, the fact that Crosby was fine makes that play more acceptable than the one that resulted in Campbell’s injuries.
While the reality is that the result of the play colors the punishment, it shouldn’t for the above reason. Ovie was told that he’s getting two games for a reckless play without intent to injure because Campbell is out for the season (and history). Downie intentionally tries to hurt someone (and there is NO other explanation for that play) but he failed so scott free?
It’s apparent you think the NHL’s disciplinary system is a joke as much as I do, but I’m not sure where you want it to go. Which may be the problem with them. Maybe they just have never agreed on standards by which to judge plays and that’s why we get the randomness.
by Fallen 13 on Mar 16, 2010 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
By your logic, the fact that Crosby was fine makes that play more acceptable than the one that resulted in Campbell’s injuries.
No, it doesn’t make it more acceptable but it makes it more understandable about why he wasn’t punished.
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Why?
It was an illegal, dangerous hit. It should have been punished. At the very LEAST, Downie should have gone to the box for tripping, but he didn’t even get that.
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and a $1,000 fine certainly isn’t going to act as a serious deterrent on Downie. In no way did the punishment for his actions fit what he did.
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The huge suspension he got for the McAmmond hit didn’t teach him shit either.
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So repeat offender, dirtier play, no injury… no suspension. It’s pretty clear what the dispositive factor is for the NHL, and that’s what has me most pissed off.
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Because the NHL’s disciplinary system takes into account the injury.
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No, it doesn’t make it more acceptable but it makes it more understandable about why he wasn’t punished.
No, no, no and thats a big part of why Campbell’s job is way harder than it should be. Injury is not the sole reason nor should it be a major factor when dealing supplemental discipline. What Downie did to Crosby was dirty, intended to hurt, a slew foot, and was a clear retaliation for Stamkos getting laid out. That should be suspension worthy every time regardless of injury.
Now I’m not saying injury shouldn’t be a factor but it seems that in this case it was the predetermining factor. That hit happens almost every game and doesn’t result in injury but this is the one special snowflake that gets called? No I don’t buy that.
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I spell it Ovie. Calm down.
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I doubt he hits the divot if AO doesn’t touch him: he was pushed into it. But AO should not be fined and suspended because of a hockey play.
by DrinkingPartner on Mar 16, 2010 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Not a hockey play.
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Absolutely a hockey play. It’s a forecheck gone wrong.
by DrinkingPartner on Mar 16, 2010 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions
late
But maybe you subscribe to Blanche’s theory that it’s “better late than pregnant”
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Who doesn’t?!
But that’s not much of an argument.
by DrinkingPartner on Mar 16, 2010 2:44 PM EDT up reply actions
It’s hockey play that turned out illegal. There’s a difference.
by DrinkingPartner on Mar 16, 2010 2:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Siiiiigh.
Semantics.
The PLANNED/INTENDED play was not illegal.
What HAPPENED was.
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by IRockTheRed on Mar 16, 2010 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Who cares if what Ovechkin planned was legal?
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Those divining his intent in their absolution of crucifixion of his action.
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by J.P. on Mar 16, 2010 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Please
We haven’t even started building the cross.
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Wasn’t referring to you. But you may be able to see them from your house. Like Sarah Palin and Russia.
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Is it fall in here? I’m seeing a lot of leafs!
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by Ovechwin on Mar 16, 2010 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Hopefully they’ll be back here in April, too.
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We’ll see >:(
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My house has a terrible view :(
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He’s not responsible for bad luck. He’s not responsible for bad ice. He’s not responsible for other players turning their bodies.
by DrinkingPartner on Mar 16, 2010 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
He is responsible for pushing players from behind into the boards.
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Which was why he was penalized in game for it. You penalize the intent, not the injury. It was questionable hit in and of itself, enough to call something on. The fact that Campbell went down so awkwardly had nothing to do with Ovechkin’s intent. If he had wanted to lay waste to him he wouldn’t have let him know he was coming.
This is just the silly discipline situation that happens in pro sports. There’s no reason to penalize the injury and all the reason in the world to penalize the intent.
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I agree that the play should be punished not the injury.
Shoving a guy from behind into the end boards is a dangerous play and deserves at least a two game suspension.
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if they’re going to start suspending people for hits like Ovechkins there’s not going to be much of a league left after about a week
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You’re not attempting to say that what Ovechkin did is acceptable or common, right?
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I don’t think any of us are. Just that the play he was trying to make is common but was badly mistimed, and with all this backlash against Ovie, it comes across as blind defense of Ovie when it’s just rebutting the same arguments over and over again in various places on the internet
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by red army line on Mar 16, 2010 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions
It’s common enough I saw it at least twice that same game. It’s common enough I will see it several more times a game. It’s common enough that someone like Babcock was a bit surprised about the suspension.It’s common enough that when I see it against a Caps player I won’t be pissed about a penalty not being called if we’re not due one.
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by sydtron on Mar 16, 2010 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Counterpoint: had he not hit that divot he probably wouldn’t have been thrown into the boards. It would have been a standard “hockey play”
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by snowburnt on Mar 16, 2010 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
But the instigator was still Ovie’s push
/spell it how I want to :P
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So if Campbell stays upright and he rolls into the glass like in 95% of those checks (that don’t get called in game) does Ovie deserve a penalty? Because if it’s an illegal action he took, then he should. If it isn’t, he shouldn’t. The result of the action shouldn’t make a difference.
Now you can argue that those checks should count as boarding but unless a guy is crunched directly face first into the glass, they don’t call those.
And you’re back arguing that because the NHL screws up discipline in other cases that dirty hits should be absolved on that basis.
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I’m arguing about the standard as it’s called in game, not the supplementary discipline. (though I’ve done that in previous posts :P) Just curious if you want penalties to be called on all the plays where a defensman is rubbed out late on the glass, or just the ones that result in injury.
Every hit like this should be punished.
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But that’s what we base our entire perception on, right? Precedent? If this happens every single shift is it even an issue?
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by red army line on Mar 16, 2010 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions
What Ovechkin did doesn’t happen every single shift.
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But it happens multiple times a game, and multiple times more in the same game, with no penalty call.
by DrinkingPartner on Mar 16, 2010 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions
no it doesnt
something that might be similar does
but not that
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by JaredFromLondon on Mar 16, 2010 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Watch the Parise and Semin hits from last night and the CHI game, respectively, and tell me how they’re different.
by DrinkingPartner on Mar 16, 2010 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions
If this happens every single shift
Totally a hypothetical. If every situation like this is penalized with a major, misconduct, and 2 gamer, then there’s no issue.
I misphrased the last part. I was implying that if it happens every shift, then it won’t be penalized all the time, hence, we don’t deem it worthy of suspension.
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by red army line on Mar 16, 2010 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Except if they consistently don’t punish the same hit in other contexts, maybe they screwed up this one. There are far more hits like this that went unpunished than there are hits that were punished.
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Absolutely not. Savard was 100% on Cooke, because it was entirely Cooke’s actions. There was no mitigating factor, like a divot or a rut, that contributed to why Savard was concussed. This is a different chain of causality.
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by Knee high to a duck on Mar 16, 2010 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Do you honestly think anyone else wouldn’t have finished that check? I mean, come on. “Oh man, he got rid of the puck, I better try my hardest to veer off so I don’t get in trouble!”
You start it, you finish it… and you pretty much have to, going at that speed. Not saying it was a clean hit, but hitting the divot did pretty obviously make it worse, and that was not something either of them could control.
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Like I joked last night, yes, I KNOW other players would peel off because I watch 20 of them do it 3 times a week.
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It’s enough to absolve him of full responsibility for injuring him, yes. There was no intent, and it wasn’t a stupid play by any means. Hell, that same exact play (with no consequences) continued to happen throughout the game.
by DrinkingPartner on Mar 16, 2010 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Simulation
Sounds to me like this situation is simulatable via computer. It would be interesting to see the possible different results, including the role a divot would play. But I dont have simulation skills. Maybe someone else does?
He does share SOME responsibility, yes. But not ALL of it.
Had that play gone off as-planned, both would have gone around behind the net, and no penalty – OK, maybe two for interference, but since the puck had only been played a second or so before, unlikely.
The ice is a factor, but not the only one.
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Nah, if Campbell doesn’t fall, there’s no call whatsoever.
by DrinkingPartner on Mar 16, 2010 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions
No pretending necessary: AO didn’t push Soup hard enough to cause his skate to fly out from under him the way it did when he fell.
by DrinkingPartner on Mar 16, 2010 2:13 PM EDT up reply actions
With the injury? Maybe. It’s a hypothetical. With the illegality of the play? No.
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by red army line on Mar 16, 2010 2:13 PM EDT up reply actions
I think “momentary stupidity” is recklessness, whereas “dirty” requires a bit more premeditation, but whatever.
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by J.P. on Mar 16, 2010 2:10 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Yeah
I agree with that.
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Agreed...
Reckless Players: Alex Ovechkin, Al Iafrate, Tiger Williams,
Dirty Players: Bobby Clarke, Darcy Tucker, Claude Lemieux
Let's go Caps!
by MikeL-Pivonka on Mar 16, 2010 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree with you. Momentary stupidity is not the same as waiting for players to become vulnerable and then dropping a kill shot. I think that’s what Cooke does, and I’ve never seen AO do anything like that.
Killer_Carlson and Steckel Me Elmo are like brothers to me. And when I say brothers I don't mean like actual brothers. I mean it like how black people use it, which is more meaningful, I think.
I think dirty implies intent to injure. Of the top of my head I can’t think of any of Ovi hits where he was intending to end someone season.
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by SeattleCapsFan on Mar 16, 2010 2:09 PM EDT up reply actions
there’s a difference between a reckless hit and a dirty hit, which is intent. if it’s ‘dirty’ then he is trying to injure where if he is ‘reckless’ he just isn’t careful enough. I would say Ovi can be reckless but is never dirty.
by jstrong on Mar 16, 2010 3:07 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I would say the difference between reckless and dirty has a lot to do with whose sweater you’re wearing.
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by Chemmy on Mar 16, 2010 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Wait.
So you’re saying people are biased for their own teams? That can’t be right…
and Hi.
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Yup. If that was Byfuglien on Green, it’s a dirty hit. If it’s AO on Campbell, it’s reckless. If it’s Neil on Kessel, it’s dirty. If it’s anyone on Neil, it’s reckless (and probably well-deserved). Etc.
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If it’s anyone on Neil, it’s reckless a public service
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by ThePeerless on Mar 16, 2010 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
You’re a Leafs fan, yeh? Watch Koci on Green; Ovechkin on Campbell. Let me know if you can somehow divine a difference between those two boarding infractions.
Right
It just means they got the first one wrong.
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Which is wherein the frustration lies, especially since Cooke was let off the hook precisely because they got the first one wrong.
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by J.P. on Mar 16, 2010 3:14 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Not much excuse for the league itself to mess it up. I can understand the refs on the ice, but the league has time to review/schedule hearings, etc, so no excuse for these inconsistencies.
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by red army line on Mar 16, 2010 3:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Cooke’s hit was dirty but legal. Until the NHL makes a rule against headshots what do you do?
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You can call him under “intent to injure.”
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No
Hockey Operations told the Satellite Hot Stove on CBC that you cannot use the rule that way. I thought it was a good solution but apparently the intent (oh the irony) is that that rule (21) has to be applied to an actual penalty (tripping, kneeing, etc).
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Well, bugger that. They should change the rule book, then.
That’s just STUPID.
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Yeah
I think it was dumb because it’s an easy out for them to do the right thing but here we are.
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NHL horsebleep
Unsportsmanlike conduct, or whatever they used to suspend Avery. It’s the boldest kind of lameassery for the league to pretend they have no enforcement tool (I use the term advisedly) that would fit Cooke’s assault on Savard.
by redlineblue on Mar 16, 2010 3:25 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
And, as we’ve noted, God forbid the NHL interrupt their perfect track record of getting calls right. I mean FUCK, if you are ever going to get a call “wrong” shouldn’t it be the Cooke hit?
Killer_Carlson and Steckel Me Elmo are like brothers to me. And when I say brothers I don't mean like actual brothers. I mean it like how black people use it, which is more meaningful, I think.
there’s a GM in the league who certainly thinks those sorts of headshots can be called illegal already. From today’s Globe and Mail:
The GM said the league does have the duty to protect players from head hunters. He said hits like the recent ones that caused a large outcry around the NHL and from the public can be dealt with in the short-term with existing rules and supplemental discipline.
"The [NHL] hockey operations department can issue suspensions and the referees can call intent-to-injure [major] penalties," the GM said.
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I wonder who that was because Pierre Lebrun (I think) got a very different message from hockey operations
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Yeah
And I agree with that part 100%.
But the rest (“Push”/“divot”/“Play happens 100 times a game”/“Hockey people agree with us”/“He’s too strong!”) is just excuse making.
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I think some of them are mitigating factors on a bad hit. There’s no excuse for the hit itself. But there are factors that make the result of it worse than it otherwise might be.
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by J.P. on Mar 16, 2010 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
I don’t care that Campbell was injured. Ovechkin shoved a vulnerable player from behind which is a defenseless act on his part.
He deserves two games whether Campbell broke his shoulder or just broke a nail.
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You think if there is no injury there is no suspension?
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That’s not even a penalty if he doesn’t fall (ad nauseum).
by DrinkingPartner on Mar 16, 2010 3:24 PM EDT up reply actions
And I’m fine with that opinion – penalize the hit, not the result. You’d hand out a stiffer penalty than I would, but I certainly see where you’re coming from.
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I could live with that as well… if it wasn’t a rule-change midstream. Right now AO is not being suspended for “a hit from behind.” That’s simply not true. He’s being suspended because the hit from behind resulted in an injury. (And even that is unclear and inconsistent. Right Ales?)
Killer_Carlson and Steckel Me Elmo are like brothers to me. And when I say brothers I don't mean like actual brothers. I mean it like how black people use it, which is more meaningful, I think.
Only difference between our justification/excuses/analysis/reasoning behind our opinions and CC’s appears to be that he has a title and we don’t.
by Gin and Tonic on Mar 16, 2010 4:02 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
The speed of the play being a lot lower in Green’s case is the first thing that sticks out to me.
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Which means Koci had a lot more time to consider consequences, right?
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by Knee high to a duck on Mar 16, 2010 3:14 PM EDT up reply actions
given how long it took him to lumber across the ice, yeah, should have had lots of time to consider the illegality of his actions.
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The issue then is the more suspensions, the longer the punishment. It’s not just going to be 1-3 games here and there. If he’s a continual offender, then the suspensions should grow in severity (at least in theory).
Fair enough. We’ll see what happens, but when it comes to disciplinary measures in the NHL, it’s all entirely theoretical at this point, eh?
Yes
And you should be worried since it’s clear the NHL has a vendetta against the Caps and Ovechkin.
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Step 1: Stick the spoon in the pot.
Step 2: Stir it around…
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Take away Ovechkin's aggression and passion
And you take away a large part of his efficacy.
Certainly more than the occasional 2 game suspension would sap him (and the team) of.
Leave in his wrist shot
and you have Dany Heatley!
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Id rather have Alex Ovechkin
And all the good and bad that comes with him.
Ovechkin isn’t a total douche.
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by Chris Burton on Mar 16, 2010 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Maybe he means he’s going to go do it in the KHL. Sooner or later he’s going to get tired of being dumped on continually by the holier than thou Canadian hockey establishment.
Yeah
That’s it.
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You don’t think there could be a time when he gets tired of being public enemy #1? This isn’t wrestling. He’e being villified beyond all perspective while guys like Downie get off with just a fine. Sooner or later, that can start to weigh on you. It would me.
by b.orr4 on Mar 16, 2010 1:51 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
No
I don’t. He’s far from public enemy # 1 btw.
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OK, I’ll bite. Aside from Cooke, who’s really a nobody, what other high profile player elicits such strong dislike among the fans across the league.
Actually, I dislike Crosby because he has all the personality of a block of tofu. I admire him greatly as a player.
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actually, I dislike Crosby because when his real personality peaks out from behind the tofu persona his handlers insist he present to the world, it isn’t pretty.
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And yet, the hated of Crosby doesn’t have the same dark undertones (overtones?).
(Yes, I know about the avatar hounding - just pretend mine is invisible.)
And that’s without getting into the homophobic remarks that are nowhere near as prevalent about Ovie.
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Because AO scores some major tail. W00t!
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by J.P. on Mar 16, 2010 2:10 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
…and is very public about liking it, too!
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Has his own place, too.
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by jordanDC on Mar 16, 2010 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Q. Where is Oviemaina bigger, Washington or Moscow?
Ovie: My dacha….
Let's go Caps!
by MikeL-Pivonka on Mar 16, 2010 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Those are all fairly tame.
“Menacing” “posse” “caveman” “reckless” “out of control” “cheap shot artist” “no concern or respect for his opponents” “some one needs to take him out…karma” “Ovie has a personal vendetta” “he’s a predator” “he’s violent” “he has anger management issues” “aggressive” “he uses dirty antics” “dirty weasel” “gutless” “nasty” “cowardly” “hit-and-run artist”
And that doesn’t even touch on the xenophobic comments.
(Yes, I know about the avatar hounding - just pretend mine is invisible.)
The majority of those apply to Crosby and I see your xenophobic remarks and raise you homophobic remarks.
They both get shit on by certain fans but they also get way more support.
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The homophobic remarks are disturbing, but they don’t make me fear for Crosby’s life. They just make me want to dump detergent over my brain.
Xenophobia can also impact other foreign players.
(Yes, I know about the avatar hounding - just pretend mine is invisible.)
I think we can all agree that this takes the cake:
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by J.P. on Mar 16, 2010 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Yeah
Those guys are special. Not to mention the dozens of fans that took their pictures with them.
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One of those guys actually read up on the history of blackface and posted an “I fucked up I’m really sorry” apology on TorontoMike.com just fyi.
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RDS
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Look at jersey sales. Look at attendance and media attention and autograph seekers on the road.
AO may be public enemy #1, but he’s also public fave #1.
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by J.P. on Mar 16, 2010 2:00 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Crosby
Piece of cake.
Oh, and Bertuzzi, Avery, Ott, Cooke, Neil, Phaneuf, and on and on.
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Maybe people in Canada care about Neil and Phaneuf..
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The entire Philadelphia Flyers, Donald Brashear, etc.
Point is, the ‘hate’ for Ovechkin does not exist anywhere near “Public enemy #1” status outside of Pittsburgh.
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Well, Chicago now that he hurt Brian Campbell on a dirty hit.
But fuck Buffalo, so 10 fans hate him. The love for him in Toronto basically cancels out half of the league.
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See, there you go being an arrogant Leafs fan again. You literally think your fan base is as important as half the league.
Killer_Carlson and Steckel Me Elmo are like brothers to me. And when I say brothers I don't mean like actual brothers. I mean it like how black people use it, which is more meaningful, I think.
Really? I’m not aware of many other players that are booed every time they touch the puck in every arena in the conference like Ovie is. It happens to Crosby too, but he has Canada on his side.
by grapejoos on Mar 16, 2010 3:24 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I’m not aware of many other players that are booed every time they touch the puck in every arena in the conference like Ovie is.
That is demonstrably bullshit.
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by PPP on Mar 16, 2010 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Chris Pronger.
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AO is often booed in arenas that leave me wondering, “What the hell did he ever do to them?” But again, it doesn’t mean that there aren’t more people there who love watching him play.
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Well, I’ve heard Montreal do it but you can’t count them because they are stupid.
Toronto, for one, doesn’t boo him.
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Honestly, I think it’s more because he’s the superstar on the Caps who’s quickly attaining this “villain” status more than doing something bad like in Buffalo.
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by red army line on Mar 16, 2010 3:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Toronto, for one, doesn’t boo him.
that’s because the people at the ACC aren’t there to watch hockey.
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Really? Maybe every arena in the conference is hyperbole, but it certainly happens in PHI (where they chanted “F__ Ovechkin” in the playoffs), PIT, NYR, NJD, MTL, CAR, BUF, etc. Those are the ones I can distinctly remember off the top of my head from watching on TV (or in the case of NYR, from attending in person). I don’t think the phenomenon happens to that extent with any other player in the league. Obviously it is a sign of fear to some extent – Crosby is the only other guy that seems to elicit that response.
I’m glad you and the fans in Toronto don’t perceive Ovie as a villain, but he has that rep in some places and it certainly seems to be growing.
When we have a competent hockey team we’ll change our tune. We’re pretty chill these days.
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by Chemmy on Mar 16, 2010 4:19 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
It happened in SJ this year. Non-stop boos directed at Ovie. Someone on this board said that that didn’t happen previous years.
(Yes, I know about the avatar hounding - just pretend mine is invisible.)
Me — I was there. Not nonstop, but more than I expected to hear — that’s for sure.
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Mar 16, 2010 5:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Agreed. I hear as many random arenas oooohing and aaaahing him as I hear boo him. Sometimes it’s the same arena in the same game.
Killer_Carlson and Steckel Me Elmo are like brothers to me. And when I say brothers I don't mean like actual brothers. I mean it like how black people use it, which is more meaningful, I think.
Aside from Phaneuf, nobody cares about the rest. And what has Phaneuf done to be universally hated, aside from dating Elisa Cuthbert?
Really?
What league are you following or do you just stick in the Langwayosphere’s echo chamber?
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Please. It’s the Bondrosphere.
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by J.P. on Mar 16, 2010 2:11 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Ok
I wasn’t invited to the baptism!
Bondrosphere it is.
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Just made that up on the fly, but it sounds good.
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I think it works.
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Can I just put in a quick vote for the Berubasphere?
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by Down Goes Brown on Mar 16, 2010 2:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Don't listen to him
He’s trying to make his Craig Berube jersey relevant
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Me too. Olie the goalie was my hero.
by lynxtheone on Mar 17, 2010 6:56 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Really? People don’t care about Sean Avery? Or Steve Ott? Or Todd Bertuzzi? Not buying it.
Only YOU can prevent idiots from commenting!
by Knee high to a duck on Mar 16, 2010 2:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Aside from Avery who people know because of the sloppy seconds comment, I would argue the casual hockey fan doesn’t know who any of those people are. Cooke MAYBE because of the recent suspension, but no one else.
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by SeattleCapsFan on Mar 16, 2010 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions
non suspension
Every time the Swedish Swashbuckler scores a goal, an angel gets its wings.
by SeattleCapsFan on Mar 16, 2010 2:13 PM EDT up reply actions
I would argue that casual fans know Ovechkin more for his incredible goals than his two suspensions.
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Duh
Can’t believe I missed that but yeah, everyone hates him.
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by PPP on Mar 16, 2010 4:17 PM EDT up