The Other Pivots Round Two - Tale of the Tape
by Christoph J on Feb 6, 2010 8:29 AM EST
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We all may or may not know that NHL.com is "getting ready for Round Two in the 2010 Sid vs. Ovi Derby. They've prepared the headlines, the highlights, and now the nifty splash page graphics." Our very own fellow Rink Rabbit, lovely Your Nation's Capital, has conveniently provided us with some coverage and commentary of that player vs. player comparison. In light of this, I thought it would be worthwhile re-visiting another player vs. player comparison that, not surprisingly, falls under the shadow of the ongoing Sid vs. Ovi derby. This isn't JP's classic savory breakfast links, but here it is. The Malkin vs. Backstrom derby presented after the jump.
- Evgeni Malkin 50 Games Played, 19 Goals, 38 Assists, 57 Points, -1, 70 PIM, 1.14 Points/Game, 203 SOG, 9.4 PCT, 4 GWG. With the extra man, 10 Goals and 11 Assists. On the kill, 1 Goal and 1 Assist.
- Nicklas Backstrom 58 Games Played, 25 Goals, 46 Assists, 71 Points, +30, 34 PIM, 1.22 Points/Game, 159 SOG, 15.7 PCT, 3 GWG. With the extra man, 11 Goals and 16 Assists. On the kill, 0 Goals and 0 Assists.
via dcist.com
Compare those numbers (courtesy of ESPN's bureau of statistics and investigation) with the snapshot tale of the tape that BigOneTimer took and quickly provided during the GDT of the Caps vs. Tampa on the last day of the month of Janus. There we have it, in foresight and hindsight. Well ... Not really since the season is far from over but, in the spirit of looking back and looking forward ... is it that far fetched to say Backstrom has eclipsed Malkin? Maybe. Maybe not.
Ultimately, the campaign towards the holy grail of ice hockey continues and these numbers are insignificant with the Caps having not attained Lord Stanley's Cup ... yet. I don't mean to belittle the the impressive numbers and accomplishments of both players. Personally, as traumatized Caps fan, only the day we achieve the big prize will be the salve to my wounds. Until then, I will continue to muse and with copious amounts of Malbec of course.
Safe travels out there. Enjoy the Snowpocalypse and here's hoping we'll be treated to another sighting of the Penguins getting SnOvechkin'd, more mean Lars and less premature SnOMGasms from Semin on his own net. Now off to frolick 'n play, the eskimo way ...
Just for kicks ...The numbers of another pivot, Malkin's teammate as of yesterday evening:
- Sidney Crosby 57 Games Played, 35 Goals, 35 Assists, 72 Points, +8, 51 PIM, 1.26 Points/Game, 211 SOG, 17.5 Pct, 4 GWG. With the Extra man, 9 Goals and 11 Assists. On the kill, 1 Goal and 1 Assist
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I think this is another look at two absolutely terrific players that don’t really match up as similar players.
Backstrom centers line number one with some great wingers, and centers the #1 power play. Malkin is the #2 center, or #1 wing for Crosby. When he is center, he can be a one man wrecking crew, but doesn’t really have much to work with around him. Of course, one line 1, that is just sick talent.
They also play different parts on the PP. Backstrom plays the half wall, and much of the PP flows through him in order to set up other guys. In Pittsburgh, Malkin plays the point and just bangs in slap shots and collects assists off rebounds. They are both great, just don’t do and aren’t asked to do the same things.
More Observations
Fair point. Arguably, however, Backstrom has been maturing into a one man wrecking crew himself and we’re still seeing the tip of the iceberg of what he can do. Curious whether someone can break down Backstrom’s offensive distribution (i.e. who’s on the ice when he scores or dishes out assists? who exactly is is on the receiving end of his helpers and conversely who provides the assists to his goals?) compared to Malkin’s.
We all know OV can carry the team if and when necessary. That’s no secret. Same thing with Malkin. But with opposing teams adjusting to Ovechkin’s tendencies on the ice and tightening up their defenses against him, I argue that Backstrom’s presence and his new found goal scorer’s selfishness killer instinct have opened up the ice a lot more for OV to do his thing. It’s a win win situation for the Caps and exactly the ingredient we’ve been waiting for Backstrom to add to the chemistry between him and Ovechkin as they perfect their rapport. I have flashbacks of Kurri and Gretzky.
As to your point on what Malkin/Backstrom does and are asked to do on the PP, I may be wrong but I’m observing an increased versatility developing in Backstrom’s game with respect to the man advantage situations the Caps find themselves in. He’s not the sole catalyst in which the Caps’ PP flows through and nor does he have to be anymore. Again, I point towards Backstrom’s threat as a goal scorer as an example. That he’s the beneficiary of Ovechkin’s “new found” biscuit delivery-and-serve skills is evident as much as Ovechkin is the beneficiary of Backstrom’s “new found” go-for-the kill goal scorer’s mentality.
What’s great and scary about the Caps’ PP, and offense on even strength for that matter, is anyone one of them (be it Ovechkin, Green, Semin, Backstrom, Knuble, Fleischman, and recently Poti) can be the catalyst in which the PP flows through. Backstrom is hardly that “one-dimensional” player in which he has a specific role on the PP. They’re all threats in various guises that manifest themselves in various ways: be it threading a pass through the eye of a needle to set up a teammate, banging home a garbage goal, cycle relentlessly, patiently play keep away until an opposing penalty killer over commits, wristing one from the high slot, or unleashing a howitzer from the point, etc.
Where you lose me is your observation that Malkin just “bangs in slap shots and collects assists off rebounds.” Malkin, too, has shown his ability to be the catalyst in which the PP flows through him and Gonchar. Maybe not so much this season, but he has. If anything, it seems Crosby is the player on the Penguins that’s shown more success during this campaign in feasting off rebounds and banging the puck home which isn’t surprising. He’s had that relentless bulldoggish presence in the crease and he’s capitalizing on that more than ever.
Just another two cents and change for what it’s worth. Off to shovel some snow …
"Where can you go from there? Where? ... Nowhere. Exactly. What we do is, if we need that extra push over the cliff, you know what we do?"
I could be completely wrong about Malkin on the power play, but I was sure I heard discussions of Penguins fans worrying about their power play and Malkin’s and Crosby’s parts. The major complaint seemed to be that while Crosby was incredible in front of the goal, he just didn’t seem committed to taking the punishment down there, at least not during the regular season. He much preferred to play more outside and keep himself healthy for the playoffs. The problem with that being that their theory was that the only place Malkin was good on the power play was at the point, and he just wasn’t necessary in that position if Crosby was going to be handling the puck instead of standing in front. My assumptions were based upon this, not any first hand knowledge of actually watching Pittsburgh except when they have played Washington all of once.
I agree that Backstrom isn’t slotted as only a passer anymore, but that doesn’t mean that the power play doesn’t still run through and start with him. He is our best passer and puck control guy, and is usually the first guy Ovechkin and Green look to dump the puck to as soon as they gain the zone. Backstrom sets up the play. The difference now is that as the play develops, Backstrom will take the shot, and often convert, if it is open, instead of only being a passer. This of course ends up freeing up options for everyone, as the rest of the team knows they can make a pass to him for a good chance on goal and not worry about passing up their own scoring opportunity. If a good shot is there, Nick will take it.
I also didn’t mean to suggest that Backstrom only scores because he is out there with #8. Backstrom is a damned good player, and proves it every night regardless who he is out there with. My only point is that whether Backstrom is playing with Ovechkin, Knuble, Semin, Laich, or even Flash, he is probably getting better support than Malkin does, unless Malkin is playing with Crosby’s line, in which case Malkin isn’t the center.
Either way, these are two supremely talented guys that should absolutely dominate the NHL for the next decade or so, along with Crosby and Ovechkin.
by HateOffSeason on Feb 6, 2010 11:32 AM EST up reply actions
Malkin mainly played the point when Gonchar was out. He’s not anymore, though he does float back there sometimes during the course of play.
"I'm glad I got drafted first, because no one remembers number two." -- Alexandre Daigle
Hooks, who are Malkin’s current line mates? Any insight as to why Malkin is having an “off” season in terms of production/impact on games. Focus? Wear and tear? Injury?
"Where can you go from there? Where? ... Nowhere. Exactly. What we do is, if we need that extra push over the cliff, you know what we do?"
And frankly Sid doesn’t have the world-class talent on his wings that he really should have.
I yanked this comment from YNC herself from the ‘Round Two in the 2010 Sid vs. Ovi Derby’ FanPost. In addition to agreeing with this observation, by the same token I think we can agree it applies to Malkin as well when it comes to lack of support from world-class talent wingers.
"Where can you go from there? Where? ... Nowhere. Exactly. What we do is, if we need that extra push over the cliff, you know what we do?"
And witness a young world-class winger fretting over the arrival of his centerman.
PS Hanlon lied. Backis was definitely seeing 4th-line minutes until Boudreau arrived.
IS KEPTIN NOW
PS Hanlon lied. Backis was definitely seeing 4th-line minutes until Boudreau arrived.
Must’ve been so liberating for Lars when Boudreau came to the Caps and told the young guns to start turning it loose.
"Where can you go from there? Where? ... Nowhere. Exactly. What we do is, if we need that extra push over the cliff, you know what we do?"
While I want to say Backstrom
It’s a really unfair question. On the one hand you have Backstrom playing on the same line with the greatest player in the world and the two have perfectly complimentary games. I would argue the only two players better suited to playing with each other are the freaking Sedins! As a result, they thrive off each other.
On the other hand while Malkin and Crosby are both game-breaking talents, their styles don’t fit together as well as Ovie and Backstrom even when they do play on the same line. Not to say that they’re bad together, just that they aren’t as perfect for each other. You could make the argument that Malkin has an advantage as Crosby’s line usually faces the best defensive pairings whereas Backstrom faces the top pairings along with Ovie. But again, he plays with Ovie and Knuble whereas Malkin plays with… I can’t even conjure it to mind, they’re so inconsequential.
In the end, I think it’s too early to tell. Malkin has definitely slumped this year whereas this seems to be Backstrom’s breakout. It’s unfair to compare the next Peter Forsberg’s (minus injuries!) breakout year to an Art Ross and Conn Smythe trophy winner’s slump year. But if we’ve already seen Malkin’s best last year, then I do believe Backstrom will ultimately be better even if this year is too soon to tell.
But if we’ve already seen Malkin’s best last year, then I do believe Backstrom will ultimately be better even if this year is too soon to tell.
It’s hard to do much better than win the scoring title, lead the playoffs in scoring, win a Cup and the Conn Smythe in a season.
"I'm glad I got drafted first, because no one remembers number two." -- Alexandre Daigle
Can’t argue with that Hooks. Also, there are really times when Pittsburgh demands their stars put the team on their back and carry them. Crosby has shown he can do it. Malkin showed he could do it in spades last year at times. That isn’t Washington’s style, and that has never been asked of Backstrom. I don’t think you would have seen the development with Nick that has been seen if that kind of pressure and responsibility had been put on him.
by HateOffSeason on Feb 6, 2010 2:09 PM EST up reply actions
Not the responsibility to do it, but there have been a few times this season when he looks to have done just that. He’s not the same as Malkin, just being a one-man forecheck, but he makes great passes and can have the offense run through him. I wasn’t a believer in his game-breaking talent prior to this season, but I sure am now.
Ovechkin = Green Backs
by red army line on Feb 6, 2010 4:19 PM EST up reply actions
Not arguing with that at all. But this is also Backstrom’s third year in the league. Before last year, Malkin didn’t get enough respect either. Like Malkin, so much of the spotlight is drawn to the other guy on his team. I don’t think it’s unrealistic to expect 40+ goal, 120+ point seasons consistently in the future out of Backstrom. Maybe I overreached when I said Backstrom would ultimately be better but if he produces like Malkin while keeping his impressive durability I don’t think it’s an unrealistic statement.
I will Rec any FanPost that mentions me ;-)
Also, great “analysis.” It shocking to even type this, but I think Nick can get even better.
Game-Over Green? Canada-Over Carlson!
I think Nick can get even better.
No doubt question, and that’s great for the Caps and scary for opposing teams. It is and will be a treat watching Ovechkin, Crosby, Backstrom, Malkin, the Sedins, etc grow as players and improve over time. Like good wine, aged to perfection.
"Where can you go from there? Where? ... Nowhere. Exactly. What we do is, if we need that extra push over the cliff, you know what we do?"
Not to mention Stamkos, Tavares, Doughty, Schultz…
A fine backup to my assertion, UFurry-thanks. I think I had watched one too many Steigy-Errey broadcasts by that point. I respect the hell out of both Crosby’s and Malkin’s games but that announcement crew alone can make you hate loathe the Pens.
I also feel we’ve not yet seen the best from Backs. I recently heard an interesting quote from Bruce that when he feels Nick is looking specifically for Ovechkin too much, that’s when he puts Nick on line 2, to remind him that he has to work both wings and himself more aggressively.
Driving under the influence of hockey since godknow's when.
Stats as requested
Backstrom: 0G, 2A, +2, 10PIM, 0shots, 19:27 TOI, 15:04 / 4:02 / 0:03 (EV / PP / SH TOI)
Crosby: 2G, 0A, 1, 0PIM, 7shots, 25:18 TOI, 16:02 / 7:56, / 1:20 (EV / PP / SH TOI), 0PIM, 1shot, 24:06 TOI, 15:53 / 8:13 / 0:00 (EV / PP / SH TOI)
Malkin: 0G, 2A, 0+/
Fixing some weird auto-edit symbols
Backstrom: 0G, 2A, +2, 10PIM, 0shots, 19:27 TOI, 15:04 / 4:02 / 0:03 (EV / PP / SH TOI)
Crosby: 2G, 0A, – 1, 0PIM, 7shots, 25:18 TOI, 16:02 / 7:56, / 1:20 (EV / PP / SH TOI)
Malkin: 0G, 2A, 0+/-, 0PIM, 1shot, 24:06 TOI, 15:53 / 8:13 / 0:00 (EV / PP / SH TOI)
by Elliotte on Feb 8, 2010 1:57 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Ah. I was about to ask you about the strikeouts. Much appreciation. Called it a day, so I’ll have more time to contribute to this discussion more with some observations from yesterday’s game.
"Where can you go from there? Where? ... Nowhere. Exactly. What we do is, if we need that extra push over the cliff, you know what we do?"
The better comparison, I think is between Malkin and Backs, since a lot of the time Crosby seems to park it in front of the goal, while Backs’ play style is more of a fast moving attacker/distributer. While they may not match up well in terms of production, Crosby’s style seems to better match Kunbble’s play style.
I agree somewhat. I think the better actual discussion would be a comparison of offensive tactics and philosophies of each team, rather than player comparisons. Someone who actually knows hockey (and can read what is shown in film) could compare what each team is trying to do, and what each player’s responsibilities are. The two styles don’t seem to actually match up based upon player position.
by HateOffSeason on Feb 8, 2010 7:52 PM EST up reply actions
On A Related Note
A relevant discussion on Backstrom’s place as one of the elite pivots in the NHL. From JP’s FanShot posted a few days ago:
Barry Melrose calls Nicklas Backstrom “the best centerman in the NHL” (~1:15 mark)
"Where can you go from there? Where? ... Nowhere. Exactly. What we do is, if we need that extra push over the cliff, you know what we do?"
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