It is done: Kovy to Devils
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over 2 years ago
EmilyB
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Does NJ even have a “goalie of the future”? Like even a 2009 draft pick who might be ready by the time Marty retires?
"The Caps fan doesn't say, 'is the glass half full' or 'is the glass half empty'. He wonders when the glass is going to spill."
I know that I don’t love Kovy as a Devil, but I’m so relieved GMGM didn’t gut our team to keep him out of The Rock. And I think Kovy’s opinion (or possibly his agent’s opinion) of his worth is just a little bit too high.
IS KEPTIN NOW
But that’s not either of their opinions of his worth. It’s their opinion of how much it would take to convince him to play for Atlanta. We have absolutely no clue what sort of deal he would want from another team.
by sixsevenfiftysix on Feb 4, 2010 11:24 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Agree on both points.
1) There was no reason we needed Kovalchuck. We score nuff goals and I wouldnt want to gut the team.
2) I think the reason he asked for so much was because he absolutely wanted out of Atlanta or because he is such a huge talent on the rental market.
3) The Devils PP will get better, and their offense will be alot stronger. Kovy-Parise-Langenbrunner line? crazzyyy
Still waiting for someone to draft Paul Newman. . .
i never wanted Kovy
but seeing the NJD package makes me think, what’s our equivalent?
ShaMo, Fehr, Osala, pick? Something like that? Not a lot.
by DonnieKnutts on Feb 4, 2010 11:37 PM EST up reply actions
Maybe replace ShaMo with Schultz and Osala with a more highly regarded prospect, but it’s tough to find an exact parallel.
by sixsevenfiftysix on Feb 4, 2010 11:41 PM EST up reply actions
The NJD package is much better than that. We don’t really have an equivalent for Oduya, but he’s top 4. He doesn’t have the upside of Schultz but he’s better than our 5/6/7/8 contingent. Bergfors and Cormier is closer to Mackan and SDR than Fehr and Osala, but Bergfors is already in the NHL and has more offensive upside than Mackan, IMO. I’m glad GMGM didn’t try to outbid Lou.
Sew up your heart, grow a pair, and watch hockey.
I think Oduya was a nice project who overachieved playing in the NJ system, regardless of who was coaching.
Russian Machine very rarely breaks.
and he was with them for what, a season and a half?
he seemed to me, in the times i’ve seen him, a solid defenseman but decidedly average. i think #55 is a better player in every way.
by DonnieKnutts on Feb 5, 2010 12:01 AM EST up reply actions
Holy crap. NHLN was using the WJLA feed for the interview of Kovy.
What amazing date in history are we giong back to today, Mr. Peabody?
He looked so good in the Kings uni I'd chosen for him.
Oh well. I never really wanted Caps to play Devils anyway, and the reasons (it’s boring and maybe point-less) dont change with this news.
Call me crazy, but I’m not that worried. Marty hasn’t been the same in the playoffs in recent years.
Tom Brady is Sidney Crosby, except Tom Brady has felt the touch of a woman, and has his own house.
Call me crazy, but I’m not that worried. Marty hasn’t been the samein the playoffs in recent years.since Stevens, Nieds, Rafalski, etc left.
Now drink with me deeply of the bourbon, scotch, and rye until such time as we are fighting drunk.
by Steckel Me Elmo on Feb 4, 2010 11:38 PM EST up reply actions
That too.
Tom Brady is Sidney Crosby, except Tom Brady has felt the touch of a woman, and has his own house.
Everybody talks about how good Brodeur was when the Devils won their Cups, but they completely ignore that their D corps was ridiculously stacked. That definitely didn’t have anything to do with their low GAA.
Now drink with me deeply of the bourbon, scotch, and rye until such time as we are fighting drunk.
by Steckel Me Elmo on Feb 4, 2010 11:41 PM EST up reply actions
Since their last Cup
The Devils have been a fine regular season team. Their playoff performance is about that of the mid-80’s Caps.
Russian Machine very rarely breaks.
With all due respect, you could say much worse things about the Caps.
by sixsevenfiftysix on Feb 4, 2010 11:50 PM EST up reply actions
Yes, I know. I’m saying that if we’re playing the “NJ aren’t good in the playoffs” card…
by sixsevenfiftysix on Feb 4, 2010 11:56 PM EST up reply actions
I’m not worried either.
I am impressed by how little it seems the Devils gave up to get him, but not convinced he will make much difference. He is a great player, but will he make the Devils better? Is he the type who can play the defensive-minded hockey the Devils prefer? Will he play a more disciplined game? Those are the real questions that only time will tell.
Considering they are playing Toronto tomorrow, wouldn’t it be crazy if Phaneuf drops the hammer on him and he goes out with an injury?
With the addition of Kovalchuk the Devils are the Rangers + Parise + Discipline.
Now drink with me deeply of the bourbon, scotch, and rye until such time as we are fighting drunk.
by Steckel Me Elmo on Feb 4, 2010 11:43 PM EST up reply actions
This was the conclusion I came to after asking myself how Kovalchuk could even fit into Jacques Lemaire’s squad and their way of playing. Non-defensive player in the Devil’s system? Huh? … Interesting. But, take a closer look and there are some parallels with the Rangers, as Steckel Me Elmo suggests, except the Devils are better equipped with the kind of discipline they have throughout the whole squad in implementing Jaques’ system. In Kovalchuk they now have a finisher in their squad much like Gaborik’s role on the Rangers.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but off the top of my head I think Gaborik scored some 30+ goals in 49 games with Lemaire in 06-07, which is give or take a pace for 50 goals without his injury. I think he also 38 and 42 goal under Lemaire. Compare that to Gaborik’s recent play with the Rangers and it’s hard to say he’s breaking out all of the sudden. I can potentially see a similar scenario playing out with Kovalchuk and the Devils.
Now … to say Kovalchuk can’t even begin to play defense at the same level as the rest of the Devils is fair, but not something I think will be that big of an obstacle that others make it out to be. To roughly paraphrase what Hooks Orpik and others have been saying ’You can always teach a player defense and how to play within a system (i.e. Patrik Elias, Petr Sýkora). Can’t teach that shot he has. This is potentially what makes Kovalchuk on the Devils dangerous, truthfully.
With all that said … Add one of the most explosive offensive players in the league to compliment Parise and Zajac. Plus, Brodeur in net? If things gel with Ilya and vintage Marty shows up the Devils are a team to legitimately be weary of come playoff time. Weary enough to have devilish nightmares …
"Where can you go from there? Where? ... Nowhere. Exactly. What we do is, if we need that extra push over the cliff, you know what we do?"
Vintage Marty isn’t going to show up for two reasons:
1) It isn’t 2000.
2) Stevens, Nieds, Rafalski et al. don’t play for the Devils anymore.
Now drink with me deeply of the bourbon, scotch, and rye until such time as we are fighting drunk.
by Steckel Me Elmo on Feb 5, 2010 10:56 AM EST up reply actions
I’ll be a happy camper if what you see in your crystal ball comes true. Still, the Devils have become a bit more scary on paper. Whether that translates to ice is another question.
Btw, just curious … How many games has Marty played so far this season? Is he still the Devils’ workhorse or have the other netminders gotten a fair share? Barring heavy playing time in the Olympics, I can see him entering the playoffs fresher than ever. Who knows … it’s the playoffs.
"Where can you go from there? Where? ... Nowhere. Exactly. What we do is, if we need that extra push over the cliff, you know what we do?"
Counting tonight Brodeur has played in 53 of the teams 56 games. He started 52.
Now drink with me deeply of the bourbon, scotch, and rye until such time as we are fighting drunk.
by Steckel Me Elmo on Feb 5, 2010 9:00 PM EST up reply actions
i feel that Kovy has a chip on his shoulder
and has also been long ignored in ATL… and coming (close) to a media capital, further north where people care about hockey, he’s going to want to impress. So he’s gonna be giving maximum effort to make a point about his skills.
by DonnieKnutts on Feb 4, 2010 11:45 PM EST up reply actions
People care about hockey in New Jersey? (Hyperbole, folks.)
Despite their new arena and annual success, they are consistently unable to draw a home crowd (86.4%) this year.
Now drink with me deeply of the bourbon, scotch, and rye until such time as we are fighting drunk.
by Steckel Me Elmo on Feb 4, 2010 11:50 PM EST up reply actions
well now that they have an exciting player...
by DonnieKnutts on Feb 4, 2010 11:53 PM EST up reply actions
They’ve had an exciting player for the duration of the post-lockout NHL.
Parise is awesome. Last year when he was unchained and the Devils played entertaining hockey, and let Parise’s talent show, they still couldn’t draw (a little bit better at 89.6%).
Now drink with me deeply of the bourbon, scotch, and rye until such time as we are fighting drunk.
by Steckel Me Elmo on Feb 4, 2010 11:56 PM EST up reply actions
Parise is exciting
but Kovy’s on another level.
by DonnieKnutts on Feb 4, 2010 11:58 PM EST up reply actions
And that level doesn’t matter at all when you’re playing under Lemaire.
Now drink with me deeply of the bourbon, scotch, and rye until such time as we are fighting drunk.
by Steckel Me Elmo on Feb 5, 2010 12:00 AM EST up reply actions
If Kovalchuk was the key to winning or losing the east
McPhee would have made it happen. The price wasn’t exorbitant.
Russian Machine very rarely breaks.
they showed GMGM interview clips twice during the MSG feed
I would trust my firstborn with that man. He is a sage one.
by DonnieKnutts on Feb 4, 2010 11:54 PM EST up reply actions
Can’t read his poker face.
Russian Machine very rarely breaks.
by macvechkin on Feb 4, 2010 11:55 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I wish I could derec this.
Tom Brady is Sidney Crosby, except Tom Brady has felt the touch of a woman, and has his own house.
Strongly disagree.
As much as we look at this season as our shot at the Cup—and there’s no doubt that it is a shot at the cup—we can also easily see that if the Cup isn’t won this year we have plenty of shots in the future.
The Devils need to win NOW. Our situations aren’t comparable.
And, with all due respect to GMGM, it’s not like he hasn’t ever let key cogs in championship runs go to other teams before.
by sixsevenfiftysix on Feb 4, 2010 11:55 PM EST up reply actions
Key cogs in what championship runs? Like when they fluked their way into the Finals in between missing the playoffs? This is apples and oranges amigo.
Lost in all of this is that not only could Kovalchuk fail to make NJ ‘all that’, but he could indeed be a relative disappointment.
Russian Machine very rarely breaks.
Uh, how about both of the last two years?
Kovalchuk could ABSOLUTELY fail. No question. I just don’t see it as likely.
by sixsevenfiftysix on Feb 5, 2010 12:00 AM EST up reply actions
I wouldn’t exactly call the Caps last two years championship runs. Nor would I say any key cogs have been lost.
Russian Machine very rarely breaks.
I think I may have phrased that poorly.
All this was in response to “If Kovalchuk was the key to winning or losing the east
McPhee would have made it happen. The price wasn’t exorbitant.”
What I’m trying to say is that, as much as we love GMGM, that’s not really a valid line of reasoning, given actual past history.
by sixsevenfiftysix on Feb 5, 2010 12:05 AM EST up reply actions
Ok, maybe…but again, the price wasn’t something like the absurdity that Anaheim was seeking last year.
Russian Machine very rarely breaks.
I meant more like players who actually got traded and were key cogs to Prince of Wales (plus) runs—Hossa/Guerin.
by sixsevenfiftysix on Feb 5, 2010 12:10 AM EST up reply actions
Yea, because we want Hossa to help us in the playoffs…
They laughed at Columbus, they laughed at Fulton, they laughed at the Wright brothers. But they also laughed at Bozo the Clown.
That was not at ALL the point of this discussion.
by sixsevenfiftysix on Feb 5, 2010 11:16 AM EST up reply actions
Let’s look at the other side of this. ATL is 3 points out of 8th place right now, does this trade tank their season?
I think it will be harder but their young talent could still pull this off.
What amazing date in history are we giong back to today, Mr. Peabody?
Apparently Waddell says they may be buyers at the deadline, so the outlook is (even more) unclear.
by sixsevenfiftysix on Feb 4, 2010 11:59 PM EST up reply actions
Thats Wadell for you. Unclear i mean. I just hope the team and the fans don’t give up because of this. So much has been written about how Kovy was ATL and the team will fold without him. They are still in the race and I’d like to see the SE teams do well against the rest of the League.
What amazing date in history are we giong back to today, Mr. Peabody?
Per "In Lou We Trust"
Devils Lineup
Parise-Zajac-Kovalchuk
Elias-Zubrus-Rolston
Pandolfo-Niedermayer-Clarkson
Pelley-McAmmond-Zharkov
Martin-Salvador
Greene-White
Mottau-Salmela/Fraser
Seriously folks? That is what some of you are fearing?
Russian Machine very rarely breaks.
If ILWT is to be trusted, that line-up is SCARY GOOD!
Now drink with me deeply of the bourbon, scotch, and rye until such time as we are fighting drunk.
by Steckel Me Elmo on Feb 5, 2010 12:11 AM EST up reply actions
No, this is what I’m fearing:
3-1-0 against Washington
4-0-0 against Pittsburgh
1-1-1 against Buffalo
without Kovalchuk.
by sixsevenfiftysix on Feb 5, 2010 12:12 AM EST up reply actions
How’d the Caps fare against Pittsburgh last year, 3-0-1?
Repeat after me: Regular. Season. First half no less.
Russian Machine very rarely breaks.
Again, I never said “New Jersey are winning the Cup, no one has any chance of beating them, much less us”.
The Caps were a team to be feared last season. The Devils already were a team to be feared this season.
by sixsevenfiftysix on Feb 5, 2010 12:16 AM EST up reply actions
You said they were the Cup favorites until further notice. I, and those in Las Vegas, disagree.
Russian Machine very rarely breaks.
Those in Las Vegas haven’t weighed in yet (every site I’ve seen took their odds down after the trade).
by sixsevenfiftysix on Feb 5, 2010 12:17 AM EST up reply actions
There’s something perverse about proposing a bet about what the betting odds are going to be, but even at even money I’d wager heavily on the Devils being favorites. Haha. I haven’t read a single “Kovy-to-the-Devils” reaction piece from a major hockey writer that hasn’t ended with some variation of “the New Jersey Devils are your new Stanley Cup favorites” yet.
by sixsevenfiftysix on Feb 5, 2010 12:21 AM EST up reply actions
Even so, the “odds” will only reflect what futures action they have taken in so far. They’d have to have massive, MASSIVE money on NJ to move them ahead of Chicago, SJ, Was AND Pitt.
Russian Machine very rarely breaks.
Not really — the odds reflect what action they anticipate taking in. Just like when they open the odds for the Super Bowl, it’s not like they say “alright, it’s a pick’em, let’s see what happens”.
If I’m a Vegas oddmaker, I’m anticipating getting way too much money on the Devils to guarantee a profit if their odds aren’t set better than any other team, or at the very least any East team.
by sixsevenfiftysix on Feb 5, 2010 12:29 AM EST up reply actions
You are confusing the terms odds and futures. The odds for a game, as you probably know, are an attempt to attract equal action on both sides. The odds as part of a futures market are set similarly but only move in relation to what the book’s position is on the other teams. They will be more than happy to take some NJ money, I’m sure, because it has been mostly on SJ, Chi, Pit and Was to this point. They aren’t going to take enough of it to necessitate increasing the odds on those other teams I mentioned to the point that NJ is the favorite. It would take unprecedented one way action, and there are plenty of people backing those other teams who share a similar opinion with me, that is, this does not make NJ the front runner. I certainly would not be surprised to see their odds shorten, but not nearly to the extent you are thinking.
Source: 20 years of a gambling habit.
Russian Machine very rarely breaks.
Look, every site I’ve seen took their Stanley Cup bets down after the Kovalchuk deal went through. When they put them back up, they’re not going to be the same as they were before, and it won’t have anything to do with any money that came in in between, because the bets were closed.
I’m not confusing anything.
by sixsevenfiftysix on Feb 5, 2010 12:56 AM EST up reply actions
You are such a smart guy, go to BetUS or sportsbook.com and take the Devils at +800 or +1000 right now. Might as well get paid for your foresight.
The bets have been open since September.
Russian Machine very rarely breaks.
Alright, so there are some that appear to have bets remaining open. I never said otherwise. But you can’t honestly be denying that many books periodically close their bets for short periods of time, and many have done so now, and they emerge different on the other side.
I’ve bet on sports too. You’re not dealing with someone who’s completely ignorant on these issues like you seem to think you are.
And, since this is only tangentially related to the matter at hand, I’m going to go ahead and end my involvement in the discussion here.
by sixsevenfiftysix on Feb 5, 2010 1:14 AM EST up reply actions
Ovechkin didn’t play in 2 of those games. Knuble didn’t play in 1. One was the 2nd of a back to back on the road.
The first game went to a shootout with the Devils winning.
Last time we played (and both of those guys were playing) we won 4-1.
Our record against them is not really as lopsided as it looks.
by Gin and Tonic on Feb 5, 2010 2:14 AM EST up reply actions
the devils are never scary on paper
and that Clarkson line played maybe the most dominating shift against us i’ve seen all year.
by DonnieKnutts on Feb 5, 2010 12:14 AM EST up reply actions
The last time the Devils were scary good was when they had an All-Star D cast. And that, coincidentally, was the last time they were scary good on paper. Weird, right?
Now drink with me deeply of the bourbon, scotch, and rye until such time as we are fighting drunk.
by Steckel Me Elmo on Feb 5, 2010 12:16 AM EST up reply actions
NHL.com has an Ovie Wishes Kovy Well article. But the best part belongs to Nicky:
“It’s going to be a little bit different, of course,” forward Nicklas Backstrom said. “He’s been a big key for their team and they are fighting for the playoffs, too. They got two Swedes coming to their team (Oduya and Bergfors), so I have to fight against Swedes tomorrow. That’ll be fun.”
Kung-fu Rink Rabbit
On Draper having to wear a USA jersey at practice: "well at least the Wings can settle bets without involving gold plated desert eagles!"
Hmmm.
In some ways, I think NJ paid pretty good. Bergfors is in the Calder running last I checked. Admittedly, that was a while ago. I stopped following it when it was clear that Varly was out of the race. Oduya’s a solid Dman, and a 1st round pick is a 1st round pick. I have to think, though, that Cormier was a (fairly choice) throw-in that served Lou as well. The Devils, like the Caps, look for character guys – I can’t really say I’m too surprised that they moved a PR bomb like that out of the organization at their first opportunity.
Do I think that this makes NJ nastier? Yup. It definitely gives them a kick in the teeth. Do I think it makes NJ favorites for the Cup? Not necessarily. It gives them a better shot – they’ve been foundering lately – but it guarantees nothing. As I said above, if Lemaire wants a solid Cup run, he needs to start giving Danis some starts and stop running Marty into the ground. They won’t go far without him.
No Alex, no ratings. Know Alex, know ratings.
Wysh is skeeting over this. Claims NJ is now the “Cup favorite”. I don’t have any response for that, I just thought I’d point out that he’s insane.
"If you want money go to the bank, if you want bread go to the bakery if you want goals go to the net." - #21
That wasn’t Wysh, that was Leahy, and his appraisal of this trade is very much in line with the rest of the hockey media’s.
by sixsevenfiftysix on Feb 5, 2010 11:16 AM EST up reply actions
Kind of silly, since no team from the East should really be the cup favorite at this point, IMO. But if the Devils are now the “favorites” in the East, that’s fine with me. Let them deal with the weight of increased expectations as the Caps keep doing their business.
There are two good things about this trade happening the way it did. First is that it happened in time for GMGM to evaluate whether he needs to respond/load up/whatever. Second is that, if the Caps can hang onto 1st, and the Devils 2nd, they won’t play each other until the ECF.
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