Another Debate - Who Is In Your Top Five?

by STLSpidey on Dec 21, 2010 2:36 PM EST

Trolling around a bit post lunch, I came across an article as SI.com ranking NHL players in four categories. I think it worth debating whether an Caps would crack the top 5.

It is disappointing, but I don't believe the Caps crack the top 5 goalies, MVP candidates or defensemen at this point in the season. I'm curious about the 5 top rookies. Cazeneuve would appear to place a premium on forwards and scoring among rookies, which may cancel out Carlson or Alzner.

Overall, I think it is nearly impossible to argue against Thomas as the top goalies right now or Crosby as the top MVP candidate. Byfuglien has made a massive impact on the Thrashers, but I'm not sure he'd be my first pick at D, and I'm definnitely not certain about Liles and Whitney. Letang is having a tremendous season.

Thoughts?

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Byfuglien isn’t even the best or most valuable defender on his own team, he just has the gaudy boxcars. Enstrom is the better player and Bogosian gets the tougher assignments despite being a lot younger.

Jason Demers is quietly having a spectacular season in SJS, Kris Letang deserves Norris consideration (as in, a full-on nomination if the season ended today, not a 4th place).

Coming back to SJS, I’m glad to see Couture getting some love. That guy is really, really good.

Lidstrom is getting the really tough starts against the tough comp. The difference is that he’s not beating them in shooting anymore. In point of fact, he’s getting pretty badly outshot when he’s on the ice. I think you could make a credible argument for giving Chara the Norris this season, just not when he won (We all know Green was robbed).

Crosby would be the runaway choice for MVP…if Tim Thomas doesn’t come back to earth. He’s putting up numbers that not even Hasek approached over the course of a full season; if he keeps that up, he deserves the Hart right along with the Vezina. This is, in all seriousness, a historic goaltending performance thus far.

"Essentially, all models are wrong, but some are useful" George E.P. Box

by Knee high to a duck on Dec 21, 2010 3:26 PM EST reply actions

Erf, what I meant about LIdstrom was getting outshot relative to his team; even with his opponents and zone starts, he’s still outshooting when he’s on the ice.

"Essentially, all models are wrong, but some are useful" George E.P. Box

by Knee high to a duck on Dec 21, 2010 3:31 PM EST up reply actions

From Copper & Blue

The Rise of Logan Couture

Says here that even if Kuznetsov is able to play NHL minutes, we may not want him to.

"Essentially, all models are wrong, but some are useful" George E.P. Box

by Knee high to a duck on Dec 21, 2010 4:46 PM EST reply actions

Nice article and a very good point. Made me wonder a little about Mackan too, though I think he’s handling himself pretty well in the NHL this year.

by grapejoos on Dec 21, 2010 5:15 PM EST up reply actions

Can we combine our two rookie defensemen as Kohn Carlznerson and have them placed in the top 5 for rookies?

by Joran on Dec 21, 2010 4:47 PM EST reply actions

Does Alzner qualify as a rookie? I know he had at least 20 games two years ago, then a handful last season.

"Essentially, all models are wrong, but some are useful" George E.P. Box

by Knee high to a duck on Dec 21, 2010 4:54 PM EST up reply actions

Crap, I knew he was a young’un, didn’t realize he didn’t qualify as a rookie.

I have been impressed by their play so far.

by Joran on Dec 21, 2010 5:01 PM EST up reply actions

I’ve been so impressed with Carlson. He’s unequivocally been the real deal this season (and was last season, too) against reasonably difficult minutes.

At this point, you have to consider how Carlson affects Green’s value as an RFA. If this development continues, there’s a real possibility that the team has a stronger bargaining position, or that a compensation package comes back the other way. I’m pretty sure that if Green hits the open market, he’s making Campbell money (granted that he’s better than Brian Campbell, but still). At some point, I’m astonished if McPhee isn’t considering possible returns on that asset if the salary cap picture looks tight.

"Essentially, all models are wrong, but some are useful" George E.P. Box

by Knee high to a duck on Dec 21, 2010 5:08 PM EST up reply actions

I’d want to see more of Carlson on the PP to see if he can handle one of the point positions, but I have faith that he can.

by Joran on Dec 22, 2010 11:55 AM EST up reply actions

he doesnt get a lot of PP time does he?

Maybe Bruce doesn’t think he’s fast enough to get back fast fast enough if it’s tipped away.

Those points on the PP. I feel bad because they’re always the ones in the position to get blamed when the opposing team smacks the puck, gets a weird bounce, and ends up on a short handed breakaway.

by Brainumbc on Dec 22, 2010 4:43 PM EST up reply actions

First, Bobrovsky in the top 5 goalies is a joke. Anyway, gotta agree with most of the list, except Whitney and Byfuglien are highly overrated.

by Chris Burton on Dec 21, 2010 6:51 PM EST reply actions

I agree. He’s still got good numbers but they’re coming back into reality lately.

by Brainumbc on Dec 22, 2010 8:36 AM EST up reply actions

Whitney being on there is an absolute joke. Liles and Buff are rated too highly due to their numbers. The entire goaltending list is amok with the exception of Thomas. Looks like lots of faith being put on some very short term performances. At least Thomas can claim to have played great this year as well as playing solidly-to-great for the last few years. Rookie list is definitely forward heavy, but if you’re going to put a D on there it has to be Carlson. Shattenkirk is just not on Carlson’s level yet.

Drunk Guy: "Alex Ovechkin is playing more like Magic Johnson than Michael Jordan this year."
Laichitor: "He has AIDS?"

by Rob Parker on Dec 21, 2010 8:21 PM EST reply actions

Carlson is a better rookie defenseman than Shattenkirk… I don’t know how good Shattenkirk will be but I don’t think his potential is anywhere near Carlson’s. Carlson has a chance to be one of the elite defensemen in this league. Shattenkirk’s potential is to be a very good, reliable #2 defenseman for a very long time in the NHL.

As for my top 5:

Top 5 Goalies: Thomas (no brainer, he’s playing like Tretiak in his prime), Price, Bobrovsky, Vokoun, Quick (but I think before the year is out, Miller will make his move…)

Top 5 Defensemen: Doughty, Lidstrom, Chara, Pronger (when healthy), Keith

Top 5 MVP Candidates: Crosby, Datsyuk, St. Louis (Stamkos is very good, Marty makes him amazing), H. Sedin (although D. Sedin is great too), Kopitar

Washington Capitals 2009-10 = Quebec Nordiques 1994-95
--- D'ohboy

by MikeL-Pivonka on Dec 22, 2010 9:52 AM EST up reply actions

Jon Quick deserves to be on the goalie list.

"Semin had two goals this year, Perreault comes in and he gets three."

by jordanDC on Dec 23, 2010 8:51 AM EST up reply actions

I gave him shit earlier in the year after a bad week, but he’s been pretty damn solid for sure.

Drunk Guy: "Alex Ovechkin is playing more like Magic Johnson than Michael Jordan this year."
Laichitor: "He has AIDS?"

by Rob Parker on Dec 23, 2010 2:34 PM EST up reply actions

Top 5 goalies

1. Tim Thomas
2. Ondrej Pavelec
3. Tomas Vokoun
4. Jonas Hiller
5. Rinne/Lindback

Top 5 rookies

1. Logan Couture
2. John Carlson
3. Taylor Hall
4. Jeff Skinner
5. Linus Omark

MVP candidate

Sidney Crosby. Basically BS if he doesn’t win this.

Top 5 Defensemen

1. Kris Letang
2. Nicklas Lidstrom
3. John-Michael Liles
4. John Carlson
5. Ryan Whitney

My death was arranged by special plans in Heaven and only occasioned comment by ten persons in Adams, Massachusetts. The best thing ever said about me was that I was deft at specifying trump.

by sydtron on Dec 22, 2010 2:58 PM EST reply actions

Omark? Really? He of 6 games? I can rattle off at least 6 other rookies who should be up there before him.

As for my 5 (In no real order):

Goalie – Price, Hiller, Vokoun, Pavelec, (ugh) Thomas.

Rookies – Couture, Carlson, Fowler, Skinner, and Hall

MVP – Crosby ….. Stamkos, Thomas, Price, Datsyuk

Defensemen – Letang, Lidstrom, Enstrom, Edler, Pronger

The guy is Peter Schumpmaker. Lord knows what a schump is, but you can bet your bippy his ancestors made them. What he's doing is far worse than crafting fine schumps.

by Steckel Me Elmo on Dec 24, 2010 3:30 PM EST up reply actions

Linus O’mark, he of 6 games and just a scant few points is definitely in my top 5 rookies.

My death was arranged by special plans in Heaven and only occasioned comment by ten persons in Adams, Massachusetts. The best thing ever said about me was that I was deft at specifying trump.

by sydtron on Dec 26, 2010 6:43 PM EST up reply actions

Out of curiosity, why? I haven’t watched him much but 1G 4A and ~13 ATOI in 7 games (on a crappy team no less) doesn’t exactly scream out that he is doing more than a guy like Fowler who is playing 22 minutes a night at a much tougher position or any number of the many forwards who have been productive over many more games and in a much larger role.

Release the Mackan!

by Killer_Carlson on Dec 27, 2010 5:40 PM EST up reply actions

But he has that awesome shootout goal!!!!

The guy is Peter Schumpmaker. Lord knows what a schump is, but you can bet your bippy his ancestors made them. What he's doing is far worse than crafting fine schumps.

by Steckel Me Elmo on Dec 27, 2010 6:21 PM EST up reply actions

basically that, as far as making a rookie impact goes he made the TBL cry. So, top 5 rookie.

My death was arranged by special plans in Heaven and only occasioned comment by ten persons in Adams, Massachusetts. The best thing ever said about me was that I was deft at specifying trump.

by sydtron on Dec 30, 2010 10:28 AM EST up reply actions