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Caps Extend Erskine

"The Washington Capitals have signed defenseman John Erskine to a two-year contract extension, vice president and general manager George McPhee announced today. In keeping with club policy, financial terms of the deal were not disclosed." - Release

over 1 year ago Jp_avatar_2_tiny J.P. 338 comments 0 recs  | 

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Comments

Display:

Surprised GMGM didn’t throw in an NTC while he was at it.

The Artist Formerly Known as CP2Devil.
Contributor at Five For Howling.

by Carl Putnam on Dec 17, 2010 12:28 PM EST reply actions  

Not a terrible signing if it’s around 1M per. At closer to 1.5M, this would not be a wise move.

by imbroglioh on Dec 17, 2010 12:29 PM EST reply actions  

I thought someone said it’s 2 years for 3 mil.

Everything ends badly...otherwise it wouldn't end.

by Davethecapsfan on Dec 17, 2010 12:30 PM EST up reply actions  

wow… I was thinking <1M per… I like Erskine more than the average Caps fan but that’s a lot of dough for someone who when everyone is healthy should be seeing 3rd pairing time…

Warning: I started watching hockey in 2007. So, yeah. Heh.

by Laich Button on Dec 17, 2010 12:31 PM EST up reply actions  

He’s already making 1.25, and is playing better than he had been before. Even if he’s overpaid he wasn’t looking at a pay cut.

by brs03 on Dec 17, 2010 12:32 PM EST up reply actions  

that’s a lot of dough for someone who when everyone is healthy should be seeing 3rd pairingpress box time…

Everything ends badly...otherwise it wouldn't end.

by Davethecapsfan on Dec 17, 2010 12:32 PM EST up reply actions  

haha. I was tempted to put something like that but then I realized I feel better with him at 6D than anyone else we have… and I didn’t know he was already making 1.25M, I guess this makes more sense now. Still a lot of money.

Warning: I started watching hockey in 2007. So, yeah. Heh.

by Laich Button on Dec 17, 2010 12:33 PM EST up reply actions  

He was overpaid before. Since he’s playing better he had to get a raise. He’s a guy who’s a 6D at BEST. Preferably a 7D.

Everything ends badly...otherwise it wouldn't end.

by Davethecapsfan on Dec 17, 2010 12:34 PM EST up reply actions  

I agree. But who else do we have that’s a better 6D? With Hannan coming in and this extension, it’s pretty clear (I think?) GMGM won’t be bringing in another defenseman just to shore up our 3rd pairing… as far as this year goes, Erskine is our 6D whether we like it or not.

Warning: I started watching hockey in 2007. So, yeah. Heh.

by Laich Button on Dec 17, 2010 12:36 PM EST up reply actions  

d’oh… change those “6s” to “7s”… I just woke up.

Warning: I started watching hockey in 2007. So, yeah. Heh.

by Laich Button on Dec 17, 2010 12:36 PM EST up reply actions  

There are countless 3rd-pair defensemen available in free agency. They’re very easy to find, relatively cheap to sign, and, in many cases, younger than Erskine.

by RCheli on Dec 17, 2010 12:37 PM EST up reply actions  

Not both cheaper and better, though. You have to luck out with a training camp invite for something like that to happen, usually.

Plus, on this blueline replacing Erskine with someone younger is the last thing the team is going to want to do, unless it’s a homegrown prospect who is shooting up through the ranks I suppose.

by brs03 on Dec 17, 2010 12:39 PM EST up reply actions  

Wrong.

This game is all about overcoming diversity.

by D'ohboy on Dec 17, 2010 12:39 PM EST up reply actions  

On which part?

The market for Dmen is ridiculously inflated year after year. And the last thing this team needs is more youth on the back end.

by brs03 on Dec 17, 2010 12:41 PM EST up reply actions  

Mike Mottau.

Age≠good. Erskine blows at any age.

This game is all about overcoming diversity.

by D'ohboy on Dec 17, 2010 12:41 PM EST up reply actions  

Mottau blows somewhat as well, though. Most #6 Dmen do.

by brs03 on Dec 17, 2010 12:43 PM EST up reply actions  

False. They’re not elite, but quite a few don’t blow.

by Chris Burton on Dec 17, 2010 12:44 PM EST up reply actions  

In that case neither does Erskine, for the most part. Not particularly a fan of the guy, but people need to manage their expectations for #6 Dmen. This isn’t Sloan.

by brs03 on Dec 17, 2010 12:45 PM EST up reply actions  

I’d agree with that. Also have some friends who are Devils fans that laughed at my suggestion that the Caps target Mottau, so…a 6D is a 6D is a 6D. They’re probably better than they seem to their fans, worse than they seem to fans of other teams.

If anyone needs me, I'll be at Kettler.

by Becca H on Dec 17, 2010 12:47 PM EST up reply actions  

And there are guys out there for that role at less than half the price. Hence, “bad signing.”

Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world

by J.P. on Dec 17, 2010 12:49 PM EST up reply actions  

And, again, we’re not talking about a 6D, we’re talking about a 7D here.

Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world

by J.P. on Dec 17, 2010 12:49 PM EST up reply actions  

Well, sure. And as I said below I’m not sure I love the signing (or at least the timing of it) but Erskine’s not as bad as we make him out to be, was my point.

And you know, we can get pissed about the UFA defensemen GMGM “passed on” but until I’m sure they didn’t pass on us…I don’t know that we can necessarily weigh in on this.

If anyone needs me, I'll be at Kettler.

by Becca H on Dec 17, 2010 12:51 PM EST up reply actions  

The point isn’t how good or bad he is. The point is how overpaid he is. It’s a ridiculously terrible contract that will hamstring the team in the future.

by Ginga on Dec 17, 2010 12:52 PM EST up reply actions  

…or more accurately, how overpaid his position on the roster is. He may have gotten close to this contract on the free market. But that’s irrelevant. What matters is that we now have 3 bottom pairing defensemen locked in for over 5 million.

by Ginga on Dec 17, 2010 12:55 PM EST up reply actions  

I’m guessing Poti is the third defenseman you’re talking about?

by Yoshietree on Dec 17, 2010 12:56 PM EST up reply actions  

WHen Poti is healthy he is not a bottom pairing defenseman

Aim for the head baby Jesus

by Doncosmic on Dec 17, 2010 12:59 PM EST up reply actions  

Eh, he pretty much is at this point.

This game is all about overcoming diversity.

by D'ohboy on Dec 17, 2010 1:00 PM EST up reply actions  

Really? At this point I’d say that both Carlson and Alzner should be behind him on the depth chart. Only advantage to putting Poti on the bottom pair is that it gives the other two more time to play together.

by Yoshietree on Dec 17, 2010 1:02 PM EST up reply actions  

We’re talking next year, and after….when the extensions kick in. He’s already arguably behind 52, 55, 27, 74….and next year he almost certainly will be behind them.

by Ginga on Dec 17, 2010 1:03 PM EST up reply actions  

Fair enough. I still highly doubt Poti will be a bottom pair dman next year.

by Yoshietree on Dec 17, 2010 1:05 PM EST up reply actions  

That or it’ll be “bottom pair” like when Alex Semin is on the “second line.”

by DrinkingPartner on Dec 17, 2010 1:06 PM EST up reply actions  

If we are healthy next year and he’s playing ahead of either Carlznerson I’ll be disappointed in the kids development.

Everything ends badly...otherwise it wouldn't end.

by Davethecapsfan on Dec 17, 2010 1:06 PM EST up reply actions  

My eyes and most ever metric (and the TOI given out by Boudreau) would disagree with you.

At the end of close games, look who’s on the ice. It’s usually Carlznerson. Except when we give up GTGs to Eric Staal. Then it’s Poti.

This game is all about overcoming diversity.

by D'ohboy on Dec 17, 2010 1:05 PM EST up reply actions  

I’d say it depends on the health of the team. If everyone’s healthy, i think he gets top 4 minutes so that they can actually pull back ice time for Carlznerson. I can’t imagine that they’re really happy playing them such high minutes.

by DrinkingPartner on Dec 17, 2010 1:02 PM EST up reply actions  

And he will be next season and beyond.

by RCheli on Dec 17, 2010 2:03 PM EST up reply actions  

Given what Alzner and Carlson will probably make and how they will probably improve how are you not going to give them more minutes than Poti?

Everything ends badly...otherwise it wouldn't end.

by Davethecapsfan on Dec 17, 2010 1:01 PM EST up reply actions  

What does what they will probably make have to do with anything? Right now, IMO, Poti should be getting more minutes than the others.

by Yoshietree on Dec 17, 2010 1:03 PM EST up reply actions  

Neither this extension or Porti’s is for right now, though. Next season, I definitely want Alzner/Carlson to be getting more minutes than either.

Eat, drink, and be merry! And then drink some more.

by SmallZ827 on Dec 17, 2010 1:03 PM EST up reply actions  

And right now is irrelevant. We’re discussing the impact of the extensions, which don’t kick in until next year.

by Ginga on Dec 17, 2010 1:04 PM EST up reply actions  

Which extensions? Poti’s and Erskine’s? Or the one’s that haven’t happened yet?

by Yoshietree on Dec 17, 2010 1:06 PM EST up reply actions  

Poti’s and Erskine’s. And Sloan’s existing contract which extends through next year.

by Ginga on Dec 17, 2010 1:07 PM EST up reply actions  

Then I fail to see the distinction you’re trying to make.

by Yoshietree on Dec 17, 2010 1:10 PM EST up reply actions  

Erskine’s and Poti’s new contracts don’t impact this season at all. They will hurt the team next year, when they kick in. At that time, the team will have over $5 million locked into the 5-7th defensemen on their roster. That is way too much money to spend on those slots. You can get replacements for probably 1-2 million less, total. That 1-2 million will come in handy when signing other players.

by Ginga on Dec 17, 2010 1:14 PM EST up reply actions  

I don’t want him getting top 4 minutes if it means his groin is going to explode another 2-3 times for the rest of the season. If needed we can take that chance in the playoffs but we’re going to need him healthy (or at least as close as possible to it) for April.

Everything ends badly...otherwise it wouldn't end.

by Davethecapsfan on Dec 17, 2010 1:04 PM EST up reply actions  

Right now, IMO (and BB’s O, and in the O of the stats), the team is better off with Alzner and Carlson on the ice.

Oh, and they can both play for more than 20 mins before their groin goes poof.

This game is all about overcoming diversity.

by D'ohboy on Dec 17, 2010 1:09 PM EST up reply actions  

Just out of curiosity which metrics are you looking at?

/honest question, not snark…all I’ve looked at is TOI.

by Yoshietree on Dec 17, 2010 1:13 PM EST up reply actions  

BtN.

This game is all about overcoming diversity.

by D'ohboy on Dec 17, 2010 1:31 PM EST up reply actions  

Gracias. If I’m ever allowed to leave this godforesaken place I’ll delve in deeper.

by Yoshietree on Dec 17, 2010 1:44 PM EST up reply actions  

Simple answer – both have higher Corsi Rels than Poti. I don’t have the time to look into it much more, but it jives with what I’ve seen on the ice. To be fair, Poti has been hobbled by a wonky groin all season, but to be unfair, it’s not like anyone with a brain didn’t see that coming.

This game is all about overcoming diversity.

by D'ohboy on Dec 17, 2010 1:46 PM EST up reply actions  

I’m not making him out to be “bad” – I’m perfectly comfortable discussing him as he actually is, and that is an NHL 6/7D. And for that role, $1.5m is an obscene overpayment.

Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world

by J.P. on Dec 17, 2010 12:54 PM EST up reply actions  

I didn’t say you were, I said others were.

If anyone needs me, I'll be at Kettler.

by Becca H on Dec 17, 2010 12:55 PM EST up reply actions  

With that contract I think he’s essentially tagging him as our 6D next year.

Everything ends badly...otherwise it wouldn't end.

by Davethecapsfan on Dec 17, 2010 12:51 PM EST up reply actions  

It should be clear we probably are talking about a 6D, though. At this price he isn’t going to be a 7 going forward (after this season)

by brs03 on Dec 17, 2010 12:52 PM EST up reply actions  

I think the point everyone is making is that optimally he is a 7D, but at this price he pretty much is going to have to be the 6D.

Everything ends badly...otherwise it wouldn't end.

by Davethecapsfan on Dec 17, 2010 12:54 PM EST up reply actions  

So he’s going to get better? Because he’s not good enough to be the 6D now (or GMGM wouldn’t have gone and gotten Hannan).

Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world

by J.P. on Dec 17, 2010 12:55 PM EST up reply actions  

I’m not sure who you are replying to…it’s clear Hannan is just a depth thing for this year since we actually have the cap space to carry another guy. Which is fine but after this season we are not going to have that space to have that ability. It’s going to be Green/Schultz, Carlznerson, and Poti/Erskine/Sloan.

Everything ends badly...otherwise it wouldn't end.

by Davethecapsfan on Dec 17, 2010 12:58 PM EST up reply actions  

Maybe, but I think GMGM went and got Hannan because of how brittle the D we have are and the fact that Fahey was going to end up seeing a lot of NHL ice time. How many games have the Caps iced their top 6 D this season?

by cainoo7x on Dec 17, 2010 12:58 PM EST up reply actions  

And this deal and others have essentially eliminated his ability to bring another guy in to prevent Fahey or other AHL’ers from playing significant time next season if our D has more injury woes.

Everything ends badly...otherwise it wouldn't end.

by Davethecapsfan on Dec 17, 2010 12:59 PM EST up reply actions  

GMGM got Hannan because we were forced to play Erskine as a 4 or 5 due to injuries. Erskine is a good enough 6 now, but Sloan and Fahey aren’t.

by brs03 on Dec 17, 2010 12:58 PM EST up reply actions  

GMGM got Hannan to “complete” the D. It will still be incomplete next year if John Erskine is in the top-six.

Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world

by J.P. on Dec 17, 2010 1:01 PM EST up reply actions  

Names?

"And as it’s my personal opinion, I’d appreciate not being told it’s stupid, thanks." - BeccaH

by hotdog88gt on Dec 17, 2010 1:06 PM EST up reply actions  

I’m not sure who will be available this summer, but guys like Mottau, Mara and plenty of others were this past summer at less than half the price.

Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world

by J.P. on Dec 17, 2010 1:07 PM EST up reply actions  

Juice was also signed for 2/3 of the price this past summer.

Release the Mackan!

by Killer_Carlson on Dec 17, 2010 1:31 PM EST up reply actions  

...

Take a look at the guys signed for 1.5 or less heading into 2011-12, and see if you think its still an OK deal:

Brett Clark, Matt Hunwick, Chris Campoli, Francis Bouillon, Anton Babchuk, Kevin Klein, Ladislav Smid, Radek Martinek, Kris Russell, Steve Eminger, Ruslan Salei, Roman Polak, Andrew Alberts, Josh Gorges, Sean O’Donnell, Randy Jones, Ryan O’Byrne, Ryan Parent, Jonathan Ericsson, Milan Jurcina, Mark Giordano.

Just looking over that list, all of those guys are better than John Erskine, and most of them are younger.

by Chris Burton on Dec 17, 2010 12:54 PM EST up reply actions   2 recs

now

granted, these situations are certainly not all equal, and many of them were RFA or re-signs, but it gives you an idea.

by Chris Burton on Dec 17, 2010 12:54 PM EST up reply actions  

And most of them can play more than 50 games/season.

This game is all about overcoming diversity.

by D'ohboy on Dec 17, 2010 12:56 PM EST up reply actions  

I’d guess that GMGM thinks he won’t get any of those guys for the same or less.

by DrinkingPartner on Dec 17, 2010 12:58 PM EST up reply actions  

Other GMs got them for that price – I use this example simply for familiarity, but Francis Bouillon is a significant amount better than Erskine and Poile re-signed him easily for 1.3.

by Chris Burton on Dec 17, 2010 12:59 PM EST up reply actions  

I’d say re-signing is easier and cheaper than bringing in someone completely new.

by DrinkingPartner on Dec 17, 2010 1:00 PM EST up reply actions  

Okay; Bouillon was signed during camp two years ago <1m.

by Chris Burton on Dec 17, 2010 1:01 PM EST up reply actions  

I see your point, but i’m still not sure that would happen with any of those guys, today. I know the potential’s there, but I don’t know how realistic it is.

by DrinkingPartner on Dec 17, 2010 1:05 PM EST up reply actions  

Get that list to GMGM right quick.

"And as it’s my personal opinion, I’d appreciate not being told it’s stupid, thanks." - BeccaH

by hotdog88gt on Dec 17, 2010 1:07 PM EST up reply actions  

Even if Mottau blows (which he doesn’t, really), he’s still over a full league-minimum contract cheaper than Erskine.

I’ll remind you that, between injuries and healthy scratches, Erskine has NEVER played more than 55 games in an NHL season.

And we’re going to pay $1.5m for that privilege.

This game is all about overcoming diversity.

by D'ohboy on Dec 17, 2010 12:49 PM EST up reply actions  

If they’re better, who cares how old they are?

Eat, drink, and be merry! And then drink some more.

by SmallZ827 on Dec 17, 2010 12:42 PM EST up reply actions  

How much better are they? How much younger? If it’s marginal in both cases, no issue. But you’re not going to get a ton of impact from a #6 on the ice. Off the ice, age matters.

by brs03 on Dec 17, 2010 12:44 PM EST up reply actions  

Really? when everyone is healthy the 6d is Hannan.

Aim for the head baby Jesus

by Doncosmic on Dec 17, 2010 12:40 PM EST up reply actions  

When has everyone been healthy? Like 2 periods of one game this year?

Many a night from yonder ivied casement, ere I went to rest,
Did I look on great Orion sloping slowly to the West.

by sydtron on Dec 17, 2010 12:44 PM EST up reply actions  

Someone said in the clips it’s 2 years for 3 million, but I hope that turns out to be bogus.

by Ginga on Dec 17, 2010 12:31 PM EST up reply actions  

I pray that it was bogus.

Everything ends badly...otherwise it wouldn't end.

by Davethecapsfan on Dec 17, 2010 12:32 PM EST up reply actions  

Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

Everything ends badly...otherwise it wouldn't end.

by Davethecapsfan on Dec 17, 2010 12:32 PM EST up reply actions  

Katie Carrera reporting that those numbers are correct….

by mch on Dec 17, 2010 12:32 PM EST up reply actions  

Excellent.

"And as it’s my personal opinion, I’d appreciate not being told it’s stupid, thanks." - BeccaH

by hotdog88gt on Dec 17, 2010 12:29 PM EST reply actions   2 recs

Consistent with GMGMs strategy to have as few balls flying in the year come the FA period.

Everything sounds smarter in Tikkanesse....

by Bonzai!!! on Dec 17, 2010 12:33 PM EST reply actions  

They’ve got remarkably little movement to make on the blueline, now. They basically have a set top 6 unless there are some trades nobody’s expecting. Not sure that’s a good thing, but it is what it is now.

by brs03 on Dec 17, 2010 12:34 PM EST up reply actions  

Except that John Erskine isn’t a top-6 defender on a team with Cup aspirations. Even McPhee knows this, which is why he went out and got Hannan. The Caps are now paying $1.5m for what is essentially a spare part.

This game is all about overcoming diversity.

by D'ohboy on Dec 17, 2010 12:40 PM EST up reply actions  

He’s a fine #6 on most any team in the league. If there’s an issue here it’s that the relative weakness/inexperience of the top 4 necessitates a stronger 5 and 6 than we have. Look at Chicago’s 5-6 last year. You don’t think Erskine compares favorable with Jordan Hendry (I think he was in their top 6 for the playoffs, no?)

by brs03 on Dec 17, 2010 12:42 PM EST up reply actions  

If we put Erskine on waivers tomorrow, I doubt a single team would take him.

This game is all about overcoming diversity.

by D'ohboy on Dec 17, 2010 12:50 PM EST up reply actions  

Agreed. If he had a better contract (or even just less years) he’d probably get grabbed, but now he’s all ours for better or worse.

But that doesn’t make him less than a 6 leaguewide.

by brs03 on Dec 17, 2010 12:53 PM EST up reply actions  

I disagree. Doesn’t mean it’s a great deal for this team however.

by Langway on Dec 17, 2010 1:00 PM EST up reply actions  

Name a team that would take him. Seriously. Even at his current contract, name me the team.

The fucking Islanders wouldn’t even take him. At less than $1m, Erskine would be a good player for some teams, but most teams (smart ones anyway) don’t spend over $1m on guys who ought to be in the press box.

This game is all about overcoming diversity.

by D'ohboy on Dec 17, 2010 1:03 PM EST up reply actions  

I’m not sure the Islanders wouldn’t take him. Cap space isn’t really a huge deal for those sort of rebuilding teams. Other young rebuilding teams like EDM or CAR could use more of that sort of presence.

Granted, it’s overpayment. The question should be if it’s smart for this team in particular and it’s, like quite a few other moves, only so-so. You wonder if GMGM really has the chops but put this team over the top and manage their priorities correctly.

by Langway on Dec 17, 2010 1:29 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, but rebuilding clubs would rather see a young kid get some ice time than an overpriced vet. NYI probably wouldn’t take him.

This game is all about overcoming diversity.

by D'ohboy on Dec 17, 2010 1:32 PM EST up reply actions  

Unless they’re against the bottom of the cap.

by Yoshietree on Dec 17, 2010 1:44 PM EST up reply actions  

So which of NYI, ATL, COL or EDM do you see picking up Erskine?

NYI? Doubt it – when healthy, their defense is actually somewhat deep. Deep with crap, but still deep. They don’t need more crap.

ATL? No. They’re pretty set on D.

COL? Absolutely not, they’re looking to unload extra D.

EDM? They’ve already got their John Erskine, his name is Theo Peckham and he’s younger and cheaper.

This game is all about overcoming diversity.

by D'ohboy on Dec 17, 2010 1:48 PM EST up reply actions  

You don’t think Erskine compares favorable with Jordan Hendry (I think he was in their top 6 for the playoffs, no?)

No. With age/contract factored in, hell-fucking-no.

This game is all about overcoming diversity.

by D'ohboy on Dec 17, 2010 12:51 PM EST up reply actions  

Wow. Hendry is terrible, but ok.

I should make it clear than I can’t factor contract into this, because I agree it’s not good.

by brs03 on Dec 17, 2010 12:55 PM EST up reply actions  

Erskine, his recent spate of decent play aside, has been pretty terrible during his tenure with the Caps. He’s like Flash – his brief moments of good play make some people ignore all the crap that comes along with it. Erskine belongs in the press box most nights and those guys just aren’t in huge demand around the league.

This game is all about overcoming diversity.

by D'ohboy on Dec 17, 2010 12:58 PM EST up reply actions  

This times ONE HUNDRED MEEELLLLION. Erskine has some rather incredible highs but he’s never going to be much better than a bottom pairing D man. He’s awesome, Mr Movember and all, but this signing is pretty bad unless it comes in under a million per.

Many a night from yonder ivied casement, ere I went to rest,
Did I look on great Orion sloping slowly to the West.

by sydtron on Dec 17, 2010 1:03 PM EST up reply actions  

and I mean incredible highs as in “he’s playing well enough that he could skate 15-20 a night if he kept the intensity going”

Many a night from yonder ivied casement, ere I went to rest,
Did I look on great Orion sloping slowly to the West.

by sydtron on Dec 17, 2010 1:07 PM EST up reply actions  

The six defensemen who played the most games for the Hawks last year were Keith, Campbell, Seabrook, Hjarmallson, Sopel, and Cam Barker. Barker got hurt, as did Kenny Johanssen (who they traded for), and they had to use Hendry (so he was really their #8 guy).

by RCheli on Dec 17, 2010 1:54 PM EST up reply actions  

And he’s again a #7D this year. And he’s making $600k.

But let’s not let facts get in the way of a good story.

This game is all about overcoming diversity.

by D'ohboy on Dec 17, 2010 1:56 PM EST up reply actions  

Well to be fair Barker and Kim Johnsson were traded for each other, so they really only take up one spot on the depth chart, making Hendry #7.

Release the Mackan!

by Killer_Carlson on Dec 17, 2010 2:04 PM EST up reply actions  

I think the fact that the ’Hawks brought in both Cullimore and Boynton (and both on $500k league minimum contracts. . .wouldya lookit that?) tells you all you need to know about how they view Hendry.

This game is all about overcoming diversity.

by D'ohboy on Dec 17, 2010 2:08 PM EST up reply actions  

How did I get Kenny Johanssen from Kim Johnsson? Christ on a cracker.

by RCheli on Dec 17, 2010 2:11 PM EST up reply actions  

And Kenny Johanssen with Kenny Jonsson?

"Semin had two goals this year, Perreault comes in and he gets three."

by jordanDC on Dec 17, 2010 2:15 PM EST up reply actions  

a spare part that, with injuries and illnesses like we’re having right now, is much preferred to Sloan or Fahey

LET'S GO CAPS!!!

by Elliotte on Dec 17, 2010 12:43 PM EST up reply actions  

Well, I’m done.

This game is all about overcoming diversity.

by D'ohboy on Dec 17, 2010 12:33 PM EST reply actions  

how about those Avs!

by Reckless on Dec 17, 2010 12:35 PM EST up reply actions  

i don’t know, the penguins have seemed quite likeable so far on 24/7…

by Ginga on Dec 17, 2010 12:35 PM EST up reply actions  

This is absolutely absurd. Erskine shouldn’t even be getting the 1.25 he is now, much less 1.5.

"Now wait a minute. This is just purely a social call. You know, just two adults getting a stew on, man."

by The Ghost of Bebop on Dec 17, 2010 12:38 PM EST reply actions  

Not to mention the amount of better or comparable players available and/or signed for much less.

by Chris Burton on Dec 17, 2010 12:40 PM EST up reply actions  

Evidently GMGM didn’t think so.

"And as it’s my personal opinion, I’d appreciate not being told it’s stupid, thanks." - BeccaH

by hotdog88gt on Dec 17, 2010 12:43 PM EST up reply actions  

GMGM also thinks that faceoffs are worth $1.1m/3years.

This game is all about overcoming diversity.

by D'ohboy on Dec 17, 2010 12:51 PM EST up reply actions  

Who do you have in mind?

Keep in mind that the Caps’ defensive cupboard is basically empty, so there will be basically no new cost-controlled players anytime in the near future. (Patty McNeill’s a longshot, and I am very skeptical about Orlov).

Atta dinnin stick a who!

by Gould Old Days on Dec 17, 2010 12:55 PM EST up reply actions  

I think you do what you did with Hendricks – wait around until there are some NHL-caliber guys without contracts then invite them to camp.

This game is all about overcoming diversity.

by D'ohboy on Dec 17, 2010 12:59 PM EST up reply actions  

Oh, and of course the list is up above — was being typed as I asked this question.

I’m just not that familiar with other teams’ #6 D, I realize.

Atta dinnin stick a who!

by Gould Old Days on Dec 17, 2010 1:09 PM EST up reply actions  

Cross your fingers and hope Orlov, Wey, or Brett Flemming turn into something.

by Wheeler on Dec 17, 2010 1:14 PM EST up reply actions  

The thing is, the Caps have the rights to Green, Schultz, Alzner, and Carlson for a good long while now. Poti and Erskine have now been extended. That’s six.

Where are any of those guys going to play?

Atta dinnin stick a who!

by Gould Old Days on Dec 17, 2010 1:17 PM EST up reply actions  

In the K or the A for at least another 2 years.

Everything ends badly...otherwise it wouldn't end.

by Davethecapsfan on Dec 17, 2010 1:19 PM EST up reply actions  

Orlov likely comes over next year, signs his entry level deal, and plays in Hershey for a couple of years. Brett Flemming can play one more year in Juniors or can go into the A for a couple of years. Wey can stay in college for at least three more years before signing a contract.

by Wheeler on Dec 17, 2010 1:20 PM EST up reply actions  

All throughout the oft-injured D-lineup.

"Semin had two goals this year, Perreault comes in and he gets three."

by jordanDC on Dec 17, 2010 1:20 PM EST up reply actions  

That’s the main issue…he shouldn’t have been getting the 1.25 when he was, but since he’s playing better he had to get a raise. This is pretty much saying Erskine is our #6 going forward after this year.

Everything ends badly...otherwise it wouldn't end.

by Davethecapsfan on Dec 17, 2010 12:46 PM EST up reply actions  

Good thing Hannan’s renting.

Eat, drink, and be merry! And then drink some more.

by SmallZ827 on Dec 17, 2010 12:46 PM EST up reply actions  

Considering his current contract and what he will probably want for his next one I never thought there was any chance we would re-sign him.

Everything ends badly...otherwise it wouldn't end.

by Davethecapsfan on Dec 17, 2010 12:48 PM EST up reply actions  

I might have considered it depending on how he fit in with the team if the Caps hadn’t signed Poti to an extension already.

by cainoo7x on Dec 17, 2010 12:50 PM EST up reply actions  

Poti was done a while ago now. It was clear Hannan wasn’t going to be anything more than a rental this year when we have the cap space to have him on. Unless he took a massive pay cut or something I could never see it. Given how he’s playing right now I doubt anyone would want it but long way to go.

Everything ends badly...otherwise it wouldn't end.

by Davethecapsfan on Dec 17, 2010 12:52 PM EST up reply actions  

Given how he’s playing right now

Jury’s still out on him, IMO. He hasn’t looked pretty, but neither has the entire team. I say give him a bit more time for him to get settled and the team to find their grove again before making any final judgments.

Less drama, more hockey

by SeattleCapsFan on Dec 17, 2010 1:00 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah I meant that more as discussing whether or not he would get re-signed after this year which I felt was a huge long shot no matter what. What he does for us this year is still up in the air. If the guy learns the system and is playing solid come playoff time the trade will be worth it completely.

Everything ends badly...otherwise it wouldn't end.

by Davethecapsfan on Dec 17, 2010 1:03 PM EST up reply actions  

GM obviously figured he wouldn’t score good facetime on 24/7 and he wanted to get the cameras away from all the compelling tension and drama in the losing locker room.

by CVDTerp on Dec 17, 2010 12:42 PM EST reply actions   1 recs

Who else clicked on this hoping to see that it was an accidental repost from the last time Erskine got extended?

by grapejoos on Dec 17, 2010 12:43 PM EST reply actions  

Also not to like – handing out a contract extension in the midst of a long losing streak.

I guess my bottom line here is why now? What are the odds that he plays well enough for the rest of the season that a team out there would offer him enough more than $1.5m/year this summer that he’d take it? Very, very slim, I’d think. Much more likely is the chance that he regresses and that looks like a bad deal long before it even takes effect.

Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world

by J.P. on Dec 17, 2010 12:44 PM EST reply actions   2 recs

“Why now?” was definitely the first thing that came to my brain. I think there would have been no need for a raise if this is done later in the season. And if he walks…so?

Eat, drink, and be merry! And then drink some more.

by SmallZ827 on Dec 17, 2010 12:45 PM EST up reply actions  

I get the feeling there may be more trades in the works – just a feeling.

"And as it’s my personal opinion, I’d appreciate not being told it’s stupid, thanks." - BeccaH

by hotdog88gt on Dec 17, 2010 1:04 PM EST up reply actions  

Possible, but extending Erskine at a raise only hurts his trade value. Not saying he would be the piece traded, but if there are moves to come, I don’t see how this extension affects any of them if Erskine isn’t the guy leaving.

Eat, drink, and be merry! And then drink some more.

by SmallZ827 on Dec 17, 2010 1:06 PM EST up reply actions  

100% rec’d. Why the hurray to overpay now when GMGM could have just as easily overpaid in the offseason?

Let’s hope he doesn’t break his hand or suffer another concussion this year.

by cainoo7x on Dec 17, 2010 12:48 PM EST up reply actions  

Not sure I love this deal…Erskine’s grown on me this year but as others have said, he was already a little overpaid at $1.25 mil.

I just wonder if this isn’t some kind of panic move – it took us this long to get Hannan (a guy or at least a type we’ve targeted for a few years), we’ve got no real D prospects in the pipeline, etc.

I don’t know. Weird. Weird signing, GMGM.

If anyone needs me, I'll be at Kettler.

by Becca H on Dec 17, 2010 12:46 PM EST reply actions  

Hannan is the only one impacted by this, and I’d argue he was never going to be kept anyways (they probably would have targeted someone different if they didn’t want to keep Poti, and Hannan works because he’s a UFA and they do want to keep Poti).

Steckel and Sloan are guys you can dump if you have to. Sloan should be in Hershey as soon as the roster is healthy enough for that to work, one hopes.

by brs03 on Dec 17, 2010 12:49 PM EST up reply actions  

So, the contracts suck (liked the Poti one at the time but its looking worse and worse by the day) but they aren’t likely to change anything.

by brs03 on Dec 17, 2010 12:50 PM EST up reply actions  

Hannan is the only one impacted by this,

Is there suddenly a different, separate salary cap for defensemen?

This game is all about overcoming diversity.

by D'ohboy on Dec 17, 2010 12:52 PM EST up reply actions  

Waiting with bated breath for the Brian Fahey extension news….

The OatesStache: Tickling taints since 1975.

by Rather Bengt on Dec 17, 2010 12:54 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

I might literally become a hermit if that ever happens. Not the best DC sports news day.

Everything ends badly...otherwise it wouldn't end.

by Davethecapsfan on Dec 17, 2010 12:54 PM EST up reply actions  

No, but there’s no roster spot.

Whether Semin stays is up to him. Always was, always will be. They probably don’t pay him more than Backstrom. This doesn’t change the cap space enough for that to change.

Laich is, again, up to him. If he’s asking for 4 they shouldn’t keep him regardless.

Knuble should be in line for a 1 year deal and a pay cut. In which case they can afford him. Same with Brads. Hendricks is a wild card.

Their cap situation is suprisingly manageable. These deals don’t hurt them as much as it seems they should.

by brs03 on Dec 17, 2010 12:57 PM EST up reply actions  

You have to group them up…I think at least one out of the Steckel/Brads/Gordo/Hendy group will not be coming back. I would be slightly less annoyed with Poti/Erskine deals if we didn’t have Sloan tied up as well. Knubs might not have been in the plans regardless after this year.

It may come down to using possible Semin money to bring back most of everyone else.

Everything ends badly...otherwise it wouldn't end.

by Davethecapsfan on Dec 17, 2010 12:50 PM EST up reply actions  

I think at least one out of the Steckel/Brads/Gordo/Hendy group will not be coming back

Well, given that Steckel is the only one on contract, and that he’s the one out of that group that I’d LEAST like to see back, I’d say GMGM screwed the pooch here.

This game is all about overcoming diversity.

by D'ohboy on Dec 17, 2010 12:54 PM EST up reply actions  

At this point I’m worried that Gordo is hurt again, and to be honest Hendricks has kind of been a better Matt Bradley this year so far. I love Brads but he has had some poor games of late.

Everything ends badly...otherwise it wouldn't end.

by Davethecapsfan on Dec 17, 2010 12:55 PM EST up reply actions  

Hendricks is starting to make Brads irrelevant, sadly (or happily, I love them both) – I doubt we go forward with both of them next year anyway.

If anyone needs me, I'll be at Kettler.

by Becca H on Dec 17, 2010 12:58 PM EST up reply actions  

That’s the main rub I’m looking at as well.

Everything ends badly...otherwise it wouldn't end.

by Davethecapsfan on Dec 17, 2010 1:01 PM EST up reply actions  

If you’re worried about Gordo being hurt, then you must be ecstatic over re-signing Erskine, who has never played more than 52 games in an NHL season.

This game is all about overcoming diversity.

by D'ohboy on Dec 17, 2010 1:44 PM EST up reply actions  

Not at all. I just never saw what Gordo’s injury was and I vastly prefer him to Steckel…sadly Stecks has his shitty deal and Gordo keeps ending up hurt.

Everything ends badly...otherwise it wouldn't end.

by Davethecapsfan on Dec 17, 2010 1:47 PM EST up reply actions  

Which is the beauty of guys like Hendricks. Or Zenon Konopka. Or whomever. There are a ton of guys available last-minute.

This game is all about overcoming diversity.

by D'ohboy on Dec 17, 2010 1:49 PM EST up reply actions  

Which is exactly the type of guy I would want to fill that 6D/7D role next year considering the money we have tied up in Poti and Sloan. Hendricks has been tremendous all things considered.

Everything ends badly...otherwise it wouldn't end.

by Davethecapsfan on Dec 17, 2010 1:50 PM EST up reply actions  

Even he had previous experience with Boudreau.

"Semin had two goals this year, Perreault comes in and he gets three."

by jordanDC on Dec 17, 2010 1:51 PM EST up reply actions  

[Small point of clarification – he played 60 in 2005-06.]

Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world

by J.P. on Dec 17, 2010 2:16 PM EST up reply actions  

Ah. Just with 2 different teams. Good catch.

This game is all about overcoming diversity.

by D'ohboy on Dec 17, 2010 2:24 PM EST up reply actions  

I’d probably rather have Poti than Gordon, but that’s the only answer to your question that comes to mind.

Aim for the head baby Jesus

by Doncosmic on Dec 17, 2010 12:51 PM EST up reply actions  

I guess how bad this deal ends up being depends on whether the Caps have enough NHL contracts and are willing to bury Erskine (and Sloan, or Poti, or any other player underperforming their salary) in the AHL.

by cainoo7x on Dec 17, 2010 1:06 PM EST up reply actions  

If they’re bad enough to be buried in the AHL why in the world should we be paying them NHL money.

Everything ends badly...otherwise it wouldn't end.

by Davethecapsfan on Dec 17, 2010 1:07 PM EST up reply actions  

I don’t disagree about the overpayment, I’m just saying that if they get buried in the minors, it’s Ted’s money at stake, not mine, and not the Cap’s salary cap.

by cainoo7x on Dec 17, 2010 1:09 PM EST up reply actions  

If the merit of a contract is based on how willing the management is to stash it in the AHL, it’s probably a bad contract.

Eat, drink, and be merry! And then drink some more.

by SmallZ827 on Dec 17, 2010 1:08 PM EST up reply actions  

It seems GMGM has little faith in his own ability to draft D-men if we are extending Sloan, Poti, Oisk etc,

I am guessing this means Patrick McNeill will be a career AHL-er or else if he does make the NHL it will be in another jersey.

The OatesStache: Tickling taints since 1975.

by Rather Bengt on Dec 17, 2010 12:49 PM EST reply actions  

/obligatory “Why now and why this term?” and “Relax, people” comments.

"If you don't shut the [hell] up, I'm going to kick you in the balls so hard your dentist is going to have to work around them at your next cleaning."

by Bald Pollack on Dec 17, 2010 12:53 PM EST via mobile reply actions  

Oh, you’re cute ;) You know that won’t help.

If anyone needs me, I'll be at Kettler.

by Becca H on Dec 17, 2010 12:54 PM EST up reply actions  

/obligatory “No I won’t calm down!” explicative comment.

In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.

by skyywise on Dec 17, 2010 12:55 PM EST up reply actions  

Face Palm

All of our questions will become answers at the trade deadline, apparently

by kurlNdrag on Dec 17, 2010 12:55 PM EST reply actions  

Silver lining: at least the Caps weren’t allowed to re-sign Semin during his hot streak.

Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world

by J.P. on Dec 17, 2010 12:56 PM EST reply actions   1 recs

Heard this on the radio driving home from practice. All I could do was channel my inner Boudreau as I yelled at the empty space in my car. What the *!$?

"It's always good to have vikings."

by gfcaps fan on Dec 17, 2010 1:05 PM EST reply actions  

Would you then say that GMGM needs to get his ass out of his head?

Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world

by J.P. on Dec 17, 2010 1:08 PM EST up reply actions  

I take from the majority of the comments here regarding Erskine and Hannan here that people are beginning to call for GMGM’s head. They just don’t realize it yet.

"And as it’s my personal opinion, I’d appreciate not being told it’s stupid, thanks." - BeccaH

by hotdog88gt on Dec 17, 2010 1:14 PM EST up reply actions  

I still have zero problems with the Hannan deal. He’s a rental and still has time to turn the corner. Erskine was going to get a raise, that much was obvious. Having him at 1.25 on his current contract was a bigger mistake than giving him 250k more on the extension. The timing of the signing is the real head scratcher.

Everything ends badly...otherwise it wouldn't end.

by Davethecapsfan on Dec 17, 2010 1:16 PM EST up reply actions  

No, I think people don’t like this deal. And they’re irritated that it fits a pattern, like the Sloan, Steckel, and previous Erskine contracts. But to stretch that out to GMGM is a leap I don’t see here.

Remember, GMGM also did the Backstrom, Neuvirth, and Schultz contracts, which are looking pretty darned good right now.

Atta dinnin stick a who!

by Gould Old Days on Dec 17, 2010 1:18 PM EST up reply actions  

Backstrom and Schultz I never doubted as being gems. Neuvy’s should still be nice although it was looking obscenely good after October…

Everything ends badly...otherwise it wouldn't end.

by Davethecapsfan on Dec 17, 2010 1:19 PM EST up reply actions  

Add in Clymer, Bradley, Brent Johnson deals as well.

The difference among the deals you list are that NB19, MN30 and JS55 are/were all first-rounders and/or blue-chippers who were still young and very much on an upward trajectory when re-signed. The others are all dime-a-dozen pluggers and grinders well into their free agent years.

Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world

by J.P. on Dec 17, 2010 1:22 PM EST up reply actions  

The other difference is that only one was more than $3 Million.

McPhee’s made one bad deal for a big contract — Nylander. If he wants to have a $3 Million “loyalty slush fund” to overpay his good soldiers on cheap contracts, this team can afford it. As long as he keeps getting the big guys in for long, bargain deals (and I count even Ovechkin as a long, bargain deal).

Atta dinnin stick a who!

by Gould Old Days on Dec 17, 2010 1:26 PM EST up reply actions  

I respectfully disagree with the thought of Ovechkin’s contract being a bargain.

by cainoo7x on Dec 17, 2010 1:28 PM EST up reply actions  

How would you replace his production for less (without using young players on early contracts)? You’d almost have to use 2 or 3 players, so the opportunity cost of those roster spaces has to be taken into account.

If he’s not a steal now, he’s certainly on track to be one by the end of the contract.

Atta dinnin stick a who!

by Gould Old Days on Dec 17, 2010 1:31 PM EST up reply actions  

First, let me say that I don’t necessarily think Ovi is overpaid (that distinction falls on guys like Chris Drury and Kovalchuk). He’s annual salary pays him like he’s a top 3 player in the league, and he is, so his contract may be fair, but I don’t think it’s a bargain.

Also, while the salary cap and inflation may make his annual salary seem like more of a bargain in future years, that is assuming that his level of play doesn’t decline over the length of the contract either.

by cainoo7x on Dec 17, 2010 1:44 PM EST up reply actions  

*cough*Scott Gomez*cough*

by RCheli on Dec 17, 2010 2:00 PM EST up reply actions  

What’s your point? Are you really comparing Gomez and Ovechkin?

Drunk Guy: "Alex Ovechkin is playing more like Magic Johnson than Michael Jordan this year."
Laichitor: "He has AIDS?"

by Rob Parker on Dec 17, 2010 3:13 PM EST up reply actions  

No — I was grouping him in with Drury and Kovalchuck. Gomez’s the most overpaid guy in the league.

by RCheli on Dec 17, 2010 3:15 PM EST up reply actions  

Gotcha. I don’t know who I’d say is the most overpaid in the league, both Gomez and Drury have legitimate arguments to take the crown. Do you count guys like Huet, Redden and Finger who are so overpaid that they can’t even hold an NHL roster spot anymore?

I’d say Kovalchuk isn’t really overpaid. Maybe in term, but his cap hit isn’t all that bad for a guy with his talent and track record. It’s not working for NJD, but there is plenty of time for him and the team to turn it around (maybe not this year, but during the life of his contract).

Drunk Guy: "Alex Ovechkin is playing more like Magic Johnson than Michael Jordan this year."
Laichitor: "He has AIDS?"

by Rob Parker on Dec 17, 2010 3:20 PM EST up reply actions  

Good point about the Kovalchuk cap hit. When I mentioned him, I was thinking more about his annual salary of $10+ mil for a large portion of his deal.

by cainoo7x on Dec 17, 2010 3:23 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, that and the total sum is what people look at, but in terms of hockey it’s irrelevant. That stuff only matters if you are signing the checks.

Drunk Guy: "Alex Ovechkin is playing more like Magic Johnson than Michael Jordan this year."
Laichitor: "He has AIDS?"

by Rob Parker on Dec 17, 2010 3:24 PM EST up reply actions  

Kovalchuk’s deal is much better than the others for sure. He’s younger, has a much bigger upside, and has shown to be a dominant player in the past. You can’t say the same thing about Gomez, Drury, Redden, or many others.

by RCheli on Dec 17, 2010 3:23 PM EST up reply actions  

I feel the worst for Drury. He was always a 50-60 point guy. Always. He had a bit of a spike on an offensively dominant BUF team (with lots of PPTOI) but he was never an elite offensive player. The Rags paid him like a 90-100 point guy so the Rags fans get all over him because he doesn’t produce like that. But if you look at his numbers he’s been a 50-60 point pace guy when healthy. Exactly what he’s always been.

Drunk Guy: "Alex Ovechkin is playing more like Magic Johnson than Michael Jordan this year."
Laichitor: "He has AIDS?"

by Rob Parker on Dec 17, 2010 3:28 PM EST up reply actions  

They overpaid because they thought his leadership was worth the extra $2-$3 million per. And obviously it wasn’t.

by RCheli on Dec 17, 2010 3:29 PM EST up reply actions  

i remember wanting drury badly during the summer the caps nylander. in retrospect the top 3 Cs* on the market that year all signed dud contrats (drury, gomez and nyls). scary to think the caps might have actually done WORSE than nyls.

*datsyuk signed in the weeks/months leading up to free agency.

by Natty Bumppo on Dec 17, 2010 3:40 PM EST up reply actions  

Didn’t Briere sign that summer as well? Seems like he has to be considered the top C of that year. His contract isn’t necessarily a dud, but it’s definitely not a very good contract.

Drunk Guy: "Alex Ovechkin is playing more like Magic Johnson than Michael Jordan this year."
Laichitor: "He has AIDS?"

by Rob Parker on Dec 17, 2010 4:13 PM EST up reply actions  

And the thing is, not only do Rags fans berate Drury for not scoring 90+ points, they don’t appreciate how good of a two way player he actually is. Its a shame.

by Chris Burton on Dec 17, 2010 4:39 PM EST up reply actions  

He’s a great PKer and I would love to know how Rags fans felt about his Olympic performance. He had a couple (big) goals, but really his main value was as a stud on the PK and in the dot. That’s who he is, and it’s not like he stopped that in NYR.

Drunk Guy: "Alex Ovechkin is playing more like Magic Johnson than Michael Jordan this year."
Laichitor: "He has AIDS?"

by Rob Parker on Dec 17, 2010 5:06 PM EST up reply actions  

I don’t think the Gomez contract is as bad as Redden, or Finger, or Huet, or Yashin (can we count that contract? The buyout is on the Isles books, still. He’s their highest paid player, IIRC). He doesn’t have any “finish”, which is to say ability to score or make his teammates score better, but he’s pretty money possession-wise and makes up for some of that lack of finish with volume against some of the harder matchups.

He’s not a bargain, but he’s far from the worst contract in the league.

"Essentially, all models are wrong, but some are useful" George E.P. Box

by Knee high to a duck on Dec 17, 2010 6:42 PM EST up reply actions  

I probably do too, though it might still be if the cap goes up in future years, I think it is pretty much fair value right now.

Aim for the head baby Jesus

by Doncosmic on Dec 17, 2010 1:31 PM EST up reply actions  

It’s such a long contract that inflation factors into the discussion.

"Semin had two goals this year, Perreault comes in and he gets three."

by jordanDC on Dec 17, 2010 1:34 PM EST up reply actions  

And by the same token, a decline in Ovi’s level of play over the length of the contract has to be considered as well. Hockey is a young man’s game.

by cainoo7x on Dec 17, 2010 1:46 PM EST up reply actions  

I agree with this post except with one of those names; fwiw, I wouldn’t include Johnson on that list in the context of other back-up contracts handed out around the same time. IIRC, Johnson’s 2 year extension was for just over $800,000 per year.

by sk84fun_dc on Dec 17, 2010 1:43 PM EST up reply actions  

And in my opinion, he earned every penny.

Atta dinnin stick a who!

by Gould Old Days on Dec 17, 2010 1:47 PM EST up reply actions  

Agree, even with the 3 masked mess at the end of the ’08 season.

by sk84fun_dc on Dec 17, 2010 1:50 PM EST up reply actions  

3 masked mess

Brilliant way of putting it.

Less drama, more hockey

by SeattleCapsFan on Dec 17, 2010 1:58 PM EST up reply actions  

Only one of those masks really made it a mess – the one with Godzilla painted on it.

Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world

by J.P. on Dec 17, 2010 2:19 PM EST up reply actions  

I wasn’t so much debating the merits of the contract as adding it to the list of “loyal soldier gets extended early” deals. I’d agree that it was a good deal for the Caps.

Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world

by J.P. on Dec 17, 2010 2:18 PM EST up reply actions  

Well then I misunderstood when reading that post.

by sk84fun_dc on Dec 17, 2010 2:21 PM EST up reply actions  

Either that or we need to find out what’s in the blackmail photos.

"It's always good to have vikings."

by gfcaps fan on Dec 17, 2010 2:14 PM EST up reply actions  

Why extend him now? If you’re waiting to see how players will perform in the playoffs, why extend John Erskine in the midst of a 7 game losing streak before even the midway point of the season.

by jaytown99 on Dec 17, 2010 1:08 PM EST reply actions  

I’m kind of OK with this. I mean, it’s too much, but I don’t think it’s an “obscene overpayment.” Just a regular, garden-variety overpayment.

“Why now” is the biggest question in my mind. But looking ahead at revenues and the way both the salary cap and salaries are likely to go up, I certainly don’t think this is crippling. As long as McPhee keeps his overpayments to guys making 1.1 and 1.5 Million, this team will be fine.

Atta dinnin stick a who!

by Gould Old Days on Dec 17, 2010 1:13 PM EST reply actions  

I don’t think it’s an "obscene overpayment." Just a regular, garden-variety overpayment.

Dollar-wise? Point conceded. Percentage-wise? Obscene.

Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world

by J.P. on Dec 17, 2010 1:16 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Call it $800,000 for a defenseman and $700,000 to make a point about loyalty. We’re talking about a difference of between 1 and 2% of the cap here. Again, I’m puzzled, but not really upset.

Atta dinnin stick a who!

by Gould Old Days on Dec 17, 2010 1:23 PM EST up reply actions  

Perhaps he’s betting on the cap going up more than we think next year. It sounds small but when you’re expecting to spend up to or at the very least extremely close to the cap I always worry an extra 1% would be helpful.

Everything ends badly...otherwise it wouldn't end.

by Davethecapsfan on Dec 17, 2010 1:24 PM EST up reply actions  

I can’t speak for others, but I wouldn’t characterize my feeling as being “upset” for the reason you point to – it’s not a lot of money. But “not a lot of money” plus “not a lot of money” plus “not a lot of money” starts to equal something more than “not a lot of money.”

It’s the pattern, more than anything, that’s concerning to me, not this one deal in and of itself.

Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world

by J.P. on Dec 17, 2010 1:28 PM EST up reply actions  

and I definitely concede the pattern. But given the big picture, to me it’s more “quirk” than anything else. This team’s salary cap is really well managed.

Atta dinnin stick a who!

by Gould Old Days on Dec 17, 2010 1:32 PM EST up reply actions  

Ehhhhh, no, it’s really not. This year is a bit of an aberration because the team has 4/5 regular players on ELCs. Two years ago, we were hard against the cap, and last year, we didn’t get relief until Nylander finally went away.

I think that, after possible Laich, Semin, Alzner, Varlamov et al signings, we’re right back in Cap purgatory.

Oh, and we still won’t have a #2C.

This game is all about overcoming diversity.

by D'ohboy on Dec 17, 2010 1:38 PM EST up reply actions  

A lot of the wiggle room will depend how much the cap goes up. The 2C is going to be the glaring problem going forward. Lot of hope going into MP or Mackan developing there.

Everything ends badly...otherwise it wouldn't end.

by Davethecapsfan on Dec 17, 2010 1:41 PM EST up reply actions  

The wiggle room for the Caps will depend on the contracts they sign. If the cap goes up, that’s great, but that also will likely mean that salary demands go up.

This game is all about overcoming diversity.

by D'ohboy on Dec 17, 2010 1:50 PM EST up reply actions  

Again, agreed. I don’t see us being able to keep everyone.

Everything ends badly...otherwise it wouldn't end.

by Davethecapsfan on Dec 17, 2010 1:51 PM EST up reply actions  

And while we’ve been wrangling a lot here with how much John Erskine will be paid to be, well, John Erskine, I think what’s lost is the opportunity the team would have had to get somebody better, although I think this notion applies more to the Poti extension.

by cainoo7x on Dec 17, 2010 1:32 PM EST up reply actions  

I’d go back to Corey’s article about depth on defense in the organization and maybe he’s paying a couple hundred grand more for the devil you know while things get restocked.

"If you don't shut the [hell] up, I'm going to kick you in the balls so hard your dentist is going to have to work around them at your next cleaning."

by Bald Pollack on Dec 17, 2010 1:34 PM EST up reply actions  

Definitely. And I’m moderately comfortable with paying a premium for loyalty and continuity. But even packing that non-performance-based overhead on, I think it’s a fairly decent overpayment.

Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world

by J.P. on Dec 17, 2010 2:21 PM EST up reply actions  

I’m much more comfortable paying guys you know will be able to perform a role that’s greater than marginally NHL caliber. The opportunity cost for this contract is a contract for a player who can perform as well, or better, for less money.

In a cap-environment, the number one, most important thing a GM can do is get value for his cap dollars. The more value he gets for those cap dollars, the better the team is going to be. Every overpayment lowers the potential ceiling for the team and with it, the potential to win the Stanley Cup. I’m going to wail and gnash my teeth every time one of these overpayments gets handed out.

"Essentially, all models are wrong, but some are useful" George E.P. Box

by Knee high to a duck on Dec 17, 2010 6:53 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Preach it.

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by J.P. on Dec 17, 2010 8:42 PM EST up reply actions  

I’ve disagreed with this line of thinking before and will now. At some point this team is going to be in a position to make a move that it can’t because they need an extra 500-750k that they don’t have. Could happen as soon as this summer or even at the trade deadline.

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by Carl Putnam on Dec 17, 2010 1:23 PM EST up reply actions  

Exactly. And it’s substantially more than 500-750 if you count Poti, Erskine, Sloan, Steckel. Probably more like 2 million in overpayments relative to roster spots.

by Ginga on Dec 17, 2010 1:26 PM EST up reply actions  

It just happened last season, for Bob’s sake.

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by apk3000 on Dec 17, 2010 1:32 PM EST up reply actions  

Huh? They had tons of acquisition space at the deadline.

by Wheeler on Dec 17, 2010 1:36 PM EST up reply actions  

I was thinking the beginning of the season with the whole Bourque nonsense. Until the Clark+Jurcina/Chimera trade, they were pretty tight. And the season before that was an exercise in cap juggling as well.

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by apk3000 on Dec 17, 2010 1:45 PM EST up reply actions  

Ah, yes. Good point.

by Wheeler on Dec 17, 2010 1:48 PM EST up reply actions  

Erskine is to GMGM as Flash is to BB. How else can you explain the same GM nicely wrapping up Backstrom but unexplainably handing Erskine consecutive mid-season extensions that no one else can begin to justify?

by ChrisAm on Dec 17, 2010 1:20 PM EST reply actions  

We’ll just have to watch HBO and find out.

"Semin had two goals this year, Perreault comes in and he gets three."

by jordanDC on Dec 17, 2010 1:21 PM EST up reply actions  

I see this ground has been well tilled before me, so I’ll limit myself to noting that I don’t understand the timing (just like with the Poti extension), really hate the term (ditto) and think the dollar figure is absurdly high relative to the position Erskine occupies (just like with Steckel, Sloan, and Poti).

This is a bad signing.

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by fat_daddyo on Dec 17, 2010 1:21 PM EST reply actions  

Looks like I agree with JP and some others on this one…

I wasn’t a fan of the dollars/term combination on his last contract, not a fan of this one either. I still remember trying to convince myself that the 1.25M was a typo and wasn’t per season but was for the 2 seasons combined.

Not surprised to see this happen, but why that price/term at this time in the season? Well, actually, I thought maybe he’d re-up later in the season/post-playoffs, but to be honest, I wasn’t sure he’d even be re-signed if it required a raise from his current salary.

He plays his role and I agree Erskine has played this season pretty much as well as I think Erskine can play, but he’s a 6/7, IMO, and this contract even for a UFA dman is paying out at more than a 6/7 Dman contract as others have noted.

Could there be another trade planned (not Erskine) or other contracts in play, sure, but I don’t understand this contract looking at it today.

by sk84fun_dc on Dec 17, 2010 1:35 PM EST reply actions  

Is it only a 1-way contract?

by jaytown99 on Dec 17, 2010 1:37 PM EST reply actions  

Doesn’t matter.

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by apk3000 on Dec 17, 2010 1:46 PM EST up reply actions  

Why wouldn’t it matter? If it was 2-way wouldn’t he be able to be sent to the minors and recalled without having to be exposed to waivers? I’m not really sure on the technical aspect though.

by jaytown99 on Dec 17, 2010 8:57 PM EST up reply actions  

Whether or not a player has to be exposed to waivers is unrelated to the 1-way/2-way contract issue. A 2-way contract just means he gets paid a different salary in the AHL.

Release the Mackan!

by Killer_Carlson on Dec 17, 2010 9:08 PM EST up reply actions  

Oh alright, what determines whether they need to go through waivers or not.

by jaytown99 on Dec 17, 2010 9:36 PM EST up reply actions  

How old he is and how long he’s been in the League. Here’s a great primer on it (bottom line, though – everything EA Sports taught you is wrong).

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by J.P. on Dec 17, 2010 9:48 PM EST up reply actions  

Did not entirely see Erksine sticking around after this season

Bruce Boudreau when asked about Brooks Laich's return to the lineup, he said: "He just adds another dimension to our team. If it was puzzle, he just fits that thing. He completes us."

Brooks Laich completing everything from teams to tires and everything in between.

by breaklance on Dec 17, 2010 1:47 PM EST reply actions  

And before anyone says it, no subject line on purpose. This graph needs to be used to measure a lot more things lately than just this signing.

Bruce Boudreau when asked about Brooks Laich's return to the lineup, he said: "He just adds another dimension to our team. If it was puzzle, he just fits that thing. He completes us."

Brooks Laich completing everything from teams to tires and everything in between.

by breaklance on Dec 17, 2010 1:48 PM EST up reply actions  

Lines at the grocery store?

"Semin had two goals this year, Perreault comes in and he gets three."

by jordanDC on Dec 17, 2010 1:52 PM EST up reply actions  

or trying to sneak a peak during work without drawing extra attention. (although i guess there are more difficult pictures to explain than a line graph..)

by Natty Bumppo on Dec 17, 2010 3:33 PM EST up reply actions  

Well, if that played off like a legitimate reason, then I’m getting good at BS-ing. I really just forgot the subject line and wanted to back track it lol

Bruce Boudreau when asked about Brooks Laich's return to the lineup, he said: "He just adds another dimension to our team. If it was puzzle, he just fits that thing. He completes us."

Brooks Laich completing everything from teams to tires and everything in between.

by breaklance on Dec 17, 2010 10:37 PM EST up reply actions  

Getting to this a bit late, as work is preventing me from focusing on hockey.

It seems as though above that there is no disagreement that Erksine is a 3rd pair D, although some may say he’s not even that. I’m willing to stipulate that, even though he’s improving, he’s no better than a 5/6.

The basic question above is whether we needed to a) sign him now and b) pay him $1.5M per for two years and commit ourselves to that much.

Here’s the logic from GMGM perspective:

1. He’s a legit 5/6D and is getting better. He’s a tougher, more stay-at-home guy. We need him.
2. He’s only going to get better.
3. $1.5M is a good price to pay taking the length of the deal into consideration, as I think the market will make him more expensive if we wait.
4. A bird in the hand is worth something. I know how he plays.

5. And most importantly — I am trying to build a team that stays together. I don’t believe you can win the cup through free agency year-after-year (see Rangers, New York or Maple Leafs, Toronto). We need a group of folks and coaches that stay long term. There is value to that.

So – GMGM must value the certainly, the upswing in ability, and the team aspect at about $500K per.

Putting on my corporate America hat again, I don’t think this board is considering long term team aspect alongside a presumed (by GMGM) long term coaching aspect. You try to find 21 guys that like each other, where the whole is greater than the sum of the parts. We’re not inside BB or GMGM’s head or inside the locker room, but I think you need to give credence to that concept. Teams that turn over regularly whether in work or sports (see Redskins, Washington or Nets, New Jersey) just aren’t successful. You can’t build around 8 and 19 alone. You have to have a greater core locked in for a longer period of time.

(Just posting what GMGM might be thinking. Certainly arguable whether Erskine is part of the core.)

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Representing Caps fandom in the Gateway to the West.

by STLSpidey on Dec 17, 2010 1:59 PM EST reply actions   2 recs

If I only rec’d this, it wouldn’t do justice to my endorsement of it.

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by J.P. on Dec 17, 2010 2:22 PM EST up reply actions  

I’m OK with Erskine as a 6 if there’s a healthy Green-Schultz-Alzner-Carlson ahead of him, because those guys should eat so many minutes, the 5/6 become much less important than they have been the past few years.

But only if they also get someone else who’s as good as Erskine for insurance. Because any one injury to someone ahead of him makes Erskine the 5, and since Poti is in the mix, that “any one injury” is fairly likely.

I think I’d like to see Erskine in a platoon for 6. But I wouldn’t mind him getting in a lot of games at 6. Just so his role never gets more significant than 6.

Atta dinnin stick a who!

by Gould Old Days on Dec 17, 2010 2:27 PM EST up reply actions  

Say that 5/6 is Poti/Erskine (as it probably will be expected to be). That’s ~$4.3m in your third pairing for the next two years. Say the cap is $60m (for simplicity); that’s, what, 7% of the cap for 9% of your perfectly-healthy 23-man roster? I’d think you’d want more savings in your 3rd pair/4th line than that, given the big ticket items ahead of them.

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by J.P. on Dec 17, 2010 2:32 PM EST up reply actions  

If they get the kind of “average defenseman” for $700,000 that everyone seems to think grows on trees, then its an even 5 Million for your 5-6-7. That number sounds right to me. Again, it’s the ability to get someone who can platoon with Erskine for 6 and who step into the 5 if necessary that make it all work for me.

Which is just yet another way of saying it’s an overpayment, but not by a huge amount of money.

Atta dinnin stick a who!

by Gould Old Days on Dec 17, 2010 2:47 PM EST up reply actions  

5 million for the 5-6-7 defensemen is terrible, especially for this team.

by Ginga on Dec 17, 2010 2:52 PM EST up reply actions  

Fols had better be praying the economy recovers and the NHL reaps the benefit. The only way this seems to make sense is if you’re expecting the cap to jump…Green and Carlson are coming up for new deals after next season.

If you've read this far...seek help.

by ThePeerless on Dec 17, 2010 6:02 PM EST up reply actions  

Isn’t the logical extension of your comment that GMGM should be fired? I think he has to believe the points I made or he wouldn’t have made the deal.

Come to think of it, if he doesn’t believe the #1, #2, and #3, he should be fired.

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Representing Caps fandom in the Gateway to the West.

by STLSpidey on Dec 17, 2010 2:35 PM EST up reply actions  

I think this deal is all about #4 and 5.

1. He’s not a 5/6D, and GMGM knows this because he acquired Hannan and Corvo last year. Everyone in the organization knows that in an ideal world where everyone is healthy, Erskine is in the press box.
2. He’s not getting better. He’s a 30 year old injury-prone defenseman with limited mobility. He’s likely a great character guy, but he is what he is: a #7D.
3. $1.5m is a overpayment given what other, better players have taken on the free market. Put simply, there’s nobody else in the league who would have paid Erskine this much. Just the Caps. I thought loyalty went both ways?

This game is all about overcoming diversity.

by D'ohboy on Dec 17, 2010 2:39 PM EST up reply actions  

It’s the only thing that makes sense (other than that McPhee is dumb or incompetent, which I don’t believe). He has to put a big premium on familiarity and continuity.

I get that there’s value in keeping experienced personnel in any system.

I just don’t see the value equal to the dollars or the term in this case.

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by fat_daddyo on Dec 17, 2010 2:43 PM EST up reply actions  

I just don’t see the value equal to the dollars or the term in this case.

Spot on. Are the $$ worth the team experience and growth?

Life With Spidey -- a blog about sports, travel, work, family and fun.
Representing Caps fandom in the Gateway to the West.

by STLSpidey on Dec 17, 2010 2:46 PM EST up reply actions  

I thought loyalty went both ways?

One of the (many) reasons I’m thoroughly confused. Here’s a 30 year old 6D (at best), playing for a Stanley Cup contender. He’s got a home here, his kids are settled in schools here…and you had to give him a $250,000/year raise to get him to stay? That boggles my mind.

Less drama, more hockey

by SeattleCapsFan on Dec 17, 2010 2:50 PM EST up reply actions  

I started to type then saw D’oh’s response. I agree with him – your points 4 and 5 are why this deal got done.

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by J.P. on Dec 17, 2010 2:41 PM EST up reply actions  

Which is also which this signing would seem to reinforce that the reports of Boudreau’s demise are greatly exaggerated.

GMGM is building a core of players, coaches, and systems (as he believes) for the long run.

Life With Spidey -- a blog about sports, travel, work, family and fun.
Representing Caps fandom in the Gateway to the West.

by STLSpidey on Dec 17, 2010 2:45 PM EST up reply actions  

Well then, start writing the epitaph for the mid-Aughts Ottawa Senators, version 2.0.

We’ve seen what this group can do, and it’s not enough.

This game is all about overcoming diversity.

by D'ohboy on Dec 17, 2010 2:52 PM EST up reply actions  

That may be the case. I’m just saying what GMGM has to believe.

Life With Spidey -- a blog about sports, travel, work, family and fun.
Representing Caps fandom in the Gateway to the West.

by STLSpidey on Dec 17, 2010 2:56 PM EST up reply actions  

And I’m telling you that if he really believes those things, this team won’t ever win a Cup.

(And I don’t think he believes those things, I just think he ridiculously overvalues familiarity.)

This game is all about overcoming diversity.

by D'ohboy on Dec 17, 2010 2:58 PM EST up reply actions  

The bird in the hand concept?

Life With Spidey -- a blog about sports, travel, work, family and fun.
Representing Caps fandom in the Gateway to the West.

by STLSpidey on Dec 17, 2010 3:01 PM EST up reply actions  

More likely the devil you know concept.

by cainoo7x on Dec 17, 2010 3:03 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah. On the other hand, my feeling is the exact opposite. After watching Boudreau’s system for several years and seeing who fits and who doesn’t, I’d much prefer a guy like Matt Hunwick who can skate and move the puck (despite other SHORT-comings), than a big lumberer like Erskine.

Honestly, I watch the system, then I look at some of the guys they acquire/re-sign to play that system, and it boggles my fucking mind grapes.

This game is all about overcoming diversity.

by D'ohboy on Dec 17, 2010 3:03 PM EST up reply actions  

What about a guy like Andreas Lilja? He makes $750K and was put on waivers and now plays for Anaheim. Is someone like that significantly worse than Erskine to the point where Erskine should be taking up twice the amt. of cap room?

I guess McPhee determined that having a backup who’s slightly more capable than most is worth $750 or so in cap space. Not egregious but questionable.

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by Kolzilla on Dec 17, 2010 3:10 PM EST up reply actions  

I agree with your basic premise that GMGM is playing the continuity angle and, on its face, it’s not a bad concept. But the fact is that there are a lot of players from this group that he won’t be able to retain. You figure the core will probably be 52-55/74-27, Ovechkin/Backstrom/Laich and then you probably fill in the rest of the gaps around those players, hoping that the upcoming centers payoff.

Not sure how keeping Erskine over anyone else helps them in the long run.

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by Kolzilla on Dec 17, 2010 3:03 PM EST up reply actions  

The thinking must go 1) I need to build a team, not just 21 players, but a team; 2) I’ve got some good guys to choose from, but I have to find value; 3) all intangibles (such as the “devil you know”) included, Erskine is a good option.

Life With Spidey -- a blog about sports, travel, work, family and fun.
Representing Caps fandom in the Gateway to the West.

by STLSpidey on Dec 17, 2010 3:26 PM EST up reply actions  

He brings toughness to a D that’s lacking in that department, but I don’t think he’s necessarily going to get better.

"And as it’s my personal opinion, I’d appreciate not being told it’s stupid, thanks." - BeccaH

by hotdog88gt on Dec 17, 2010 3:06 PM EST up reply actions  

I told ya….

"And as it’s my personal opinion, I’d appreciate not being told it’s stupid, thanks." - BeccaH

by hotdog88gt on Dec 17, 2010 3:01 PM EST up reply actions  

It could also be argued that giving a “small amount” of loyalty money to Erskine could entice free agents to choose Washington in the future. Not that I think this is a good extension, but there’s that aspect to it.

by cajuncook on Dec 17, 2010 2:07 PM EST up reply actions  

Especially the internal free agents. Strong bonds within the team might lead the stars to stay for less than they could take on the open market. Or that’s the theory, iddn’t it?

Atta dinnin stick a who!

by Gould Old Days on Dec 17, 2010 2:21 PM EST up reply actions  

That’s part of what I was trying to say in my fifth point. There is definitely some value there, but, since it’s amorphous, each of us will have a different estimate of how much that is.

Life With Spidey -- a blog about sports, travel, work, family and fun.
Representing Caps fandom in the Gateway to the West.

by STLSpidey on Dec 17, 2010 2:35 PM EST up reply actions  

Guys it could be worse

You could have signed Brett Lebda to the same contract.

20 miles to Legoland!

by nhlcheapshot on Dec 17, 2010 2:06 PM EST reply actions  

That’s really not the point. We have every right to demand GMGM to be right in his contract decisions, not just better than Brian Burke.

by cajuncook on Dec 17, 2010 2:08 PM EST up reply actions  

Revenge of the Nerds Leafs Style – Lebda Lebda Lebda

The OatesStache: Tickling taints since 1975.

by Rather Bengt on Dec 17, 2010 2:10 PM EST up reply actions  

Here’s another thing I was thinking. Last year, the Penguins signed Jay McKee. He was hurt a lot, played decently when he wasn’t banged up, blocked some shots. He had around 15 minutes of ice time per game and ended up a plus player after appearing in 62 games.

He was, at the time, 31, and he signed for $800k.

That’s a veteran 6th/7th defenseman. That’s what you do. One-year deal. Under $1M.

by RCheli on Dec 17, 2010 2:15 PM EST reply actions   1 recs

Obligatory “OMG caps fans are obsessed with the Penguins” comment!

:)

by mch on Dec 17, 2010 2:18 PM EST up reply actions  

I’m a Maple Leafs fan. (I just think this is a good blog/community.)

But modeling one’s team after the Pens or Red Wings wouldn’t be such a bad thing.

by RCheli on Dec 17, 2010 2:21 PM EST up reply actions  

Quick — dump all the wings!

Atta dinnin stick a who!

by Gould Old Days on Dec 17, 2010 2:22 PM EST up reply actions  

And who did the Red Wings sign in the offseason? Ruslan Salei. Now nobody is ever going to think he’s a top pair guy (or even second pair) at this point in his career. But he signed a 1-year contract for $750k and he’s filling a hole and not looking terrible.

by RCheli on Dec 17, 2010 2:24 PM EST up reply actions  

Ask F&B, I’ve been hoping the Caps would get Salei since last year, and I was bummed when the Wings signed him in the offseason. He’s the perfect representation of what I think you can get instead of Erskine, and it’s no surprise that he went to the Wings.

This game is all about overcoming diversity.

by D'ohboy on Dec 17, 2010 2:27 PM EST up reply actions  

Ruslan Salei is also six years older than Erskine. That’s a signifcant age difference and probably accounts for some of the lower salary demand.

by b.orr4 on Dec 17, 2010 3:41 PM EST up reply actions  

The guy also has more playoff experience that our present blue-line put together. (Slight exaggeration)

This game is all about overcoming diversity.

by D'ohboy on Dec 17, 2010 3:50 PM EST up reply actions  

He’s got the same number of playoff games as Tom Poti-51. So yeah, a slight exaggeration.

by b.orr4 on Dec 17, 2010 4:04 PM EST up reply actions  

Since F&B hasn’t piped up, I’ll corroborate this. I’d much, much rather have Salei at 750k than Erskine at 1.5mm.

"Essentially, all models are wrong, but some are useful" George E.P. Box

by Knee high to a duck on Dec 17, 2010 7:00 PM EST up reply actions  

I thought it was obvious. Didn’t realize I needed to weigh in.

And I’ll corroborate D’ohboy. We’ve had that talk before. Hell, I wanted Salei before he even went to Florida.

Drunk Guy: "Alex Ovechkin is playing more like Magic Johnson than Michael Jordan this year."
Laichitor: "He has AIDS?"

by Rob Parker on Dec 17, 2010 7:09 PM EST up reply actions  

What is it about GMGM that makes him think “gee, if I don’t extend Erskine and Poti now, they’re going to be gone. Then what will we do???”

His infatuation with shitty D that he’s familiar with is fucking annoying and might end up costing the team next season’s Willie Mitchell. Don’t tell me an extra $1 million isn’t important.

The Kolzilla PR department has advised me to post a link to my work at Inside Hockey, so here it is.
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by Kolzilla on Dec 17, 2010 2:18 PM EST reply actions  

Mitchell’s played one more game than Poti has and will cost over $500k more next year. So that deal’s a winner!

"If you don't shut the [hell] up, I'm going to kick you in the balls so hard your dentist is going to have to work around them at your next cleaning."

by Bald Pollack on Dec 17, 2010 2:27 PM EST up reply actions  

He’s pretty damn good when he plays, though.

"Semin had two goals this year, Perreault comes in and he gets three."

by jordanDC on Dec 17, 2010 2:29 PM EST up reply actions  

For sure; I was just being Snarky von Snarkerson.

"If you don't shut the [hell] up, I'm going to kick you in the balls so hard your dentist is going to have to work around them at your next cleaning."

by Bald Pollack on Dec 17, 2010 2:41 PM EST up reply actions  

And he’s performed far better than Tom Poti and is sure as hell better than Erskine. The point is that between Sloan and Erskine some of that money could go towards someone like Mitchell but instead we lose out on him to a team that’s willing to pay $750K more and end up having to trade Flash for a lesser or equal part.

The Kolzilla PR department has advised me to post a link to my work at Inside Hockey, so here it is.
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by Kolzilla on Dec 17, 2010 2:41 PM EST up reply actions  

Shouldn’t the players be taking a hometown discount, plus a discount to play for a perennial contender?

I’m not a huge Laich fan, but I’d rather overpay him by $.5 million than Erskine.

by wickedwitch on Dec 17, 2010 2:25 PM EST reply actions  

I sure hope these negotiations were caught on camera for HBO.

Erskine’s Agent – “George, John’s been getting some interest from other teams for next year.”

GMGM – “Really? Does John speak Russian?” winks to camera

EA – “Funny George, but John does like it there and has been playing well this year so lets talk about what we can do to keep him Rockin the Red”

GMGM – “MMKay, but we’ve got a bunch of guys to sign next year so I don’t have much room to work with.” gives the up and down hand motion to the camera

EA- “Ok, lets start with…”

GMGM – “Two years, $1.5M per and thats my final offer” gives a thumbs up to the camera

EA- “I was going to say a one year, two way deal $500K/$850K, but we’’ll hit that bid”

GMGM – “CUT!”

Just trying to capture the spirit of the thing...

by dcsportsfan1 on Dec 17, 2010 2:44 PM EST reply actions   1 recs

I guess the question is, would you rather pay $4.5 million for one defenseman or $4.5 million each for two?

Because I bet he could find a really good free agent this summer that would sign for $4.5 instead of having Erskine and Poti for the next two seasons.

by RCheli on Dec 17, 2010 2:45 PM EST reply actions  

Eh. There’s something there, but I think the Caps have shown so far this year that depth is especially important.

by cajuncook on Dec 17, 2010 2:48 PM EST up reply actions  

Making all the assumptions in the world for a second, a $4.5m FA defenseman would be a multi-year deal and make re-upping Green problematic (to say nothing about whatever he’s going to do/not do with Semin).

"If you don't shut the [hell] up, I'm going to kick you in the balls so hard your dentist is going to have to work around them at your next cleaning."

by Bald Pollack on Dec 17, 2010 2:48 PM EST up reply actions  

Why? You’re paying that much for Erskine and Poti that for two more years.

by RCheli on Dec 17, 2010 2:51 PM EST up reply actions  

A UFA defenseman making $4.5million will rarely sign for just two years. More like 4 or 5 years which would definitely impact resigning Green.

by b.orr4 on Dec 17, 2010 2:54 PM EST up reply actions  

Of course, he’s not going to just sign for two. But after two more years, other roster factors will change.

by RCheli on Dec 17, 2010 2:57 PM EST up reply actions  

Look, the best teams out there usually have 4 defensemen making more than $3M a year. Detroit has Lidstrom, Rafalski, Stuart, and Kronwall. Pittsburgh has Martin, Michalek, Orpik, and Letang. Philadelphia has Pronger, Timonnen, Coburn, Meszaros, and Carle (that’s 5). Chicago has Campbell, Keith, Hjalmarsson, and Seabrook.

Why can’t the Caps? After this season (and Hannan leaves), they’ll have two (Green and Schultz).

by RCheli on Dec 17, 2010 2:56 PM EST up reply actions  

I’d love it if the Caps would do this. One way to achieve this would be to not pay Poti and Erskine $4.3 mil a season and use that money to sign somebody good.

by cainoo7x on Dec 17, 2010 3:01 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Sorry — the two will be Green and Poti. Schultz won’t make it to $3M until the following season.

by RCheli on Dec 17, 2010 3:02 PM EST up reply actions  

Perhaps Alzner next year and for sure Carlson the year after that…

Just trying to capture the spirit of the thing...

by dcsportsfan1 on Dec 17, 2010 3:03 PM EST up reply actions  

Those teams also aren’t spending as much on their top forwards as we are. Detroit’s spending $16.8m on Datsyuk, Zetterberg and Franzen, Philly’s got $17.2m on Briere, Richards and Carter, Pittsburgh’s spending $21.4 on Sid, Malkin and Staal.*

The Caps are spending $22.2m on AO, Backstrom and pending UFA Semin.

*estimates

  • Their forwards past Kunitz are making only $600k more than either Sid or Malkin. That’s 11 guys. If he can fill out a roster like that, more power to him.

"If you don't shut the [hell] up, I'm going to kick you in the balls so hard your dentist is going to have to work around them at your next cleaning."

by Bald Pollack on Dec 17, 2010 3:08 PM EST up reply actions  

Ugh, format fail.

"If you don't shut the [hell] up, I'm going to kick you in the balls so hard your dentist is going to have to work around them at your next cleaning."

by Bald Pollack on Dec 17, 2010 3:08 PM EST up reply actions  

Pay for the top 3 centers and top 4 defensemen and fill the gaps in with other players is the way to go, man.

by RCheli on Dec 17, 2010 3:14 PM EST up reply actions  

Sounds like we’re on the same side of this. ;)

Don’t get me wrong, I’d wish that GMGM was that acute when it game to the latter part of it, I just don’t think we’re going to be there, be it because how the cap hits are, his org. view, how he drafts or any/all of the previous.

"If you don't shut the [hell] up, I'm going to kick you in the balls so hard your dentist is going to have to work around them at your next cleaning."

by Bald Pollack on Dec 17, 2010 3:21 PM EST up reply actions  

Yes and no. Ovechkin’s not a center so he skews things a lot, but that doesn’t mean that you have to totally abandon the theory.

However, if you re-sign Semin and Laich next season to big deals, that would mean that 3 of your top 4 salaried forwards will be wingers, and that’s just a recipe for disaster. This year, 5 of the top 6 guys are wingers.

Not that salary always equals talent, of course, but you get my point.

by RCheli on Dec 17, 2010 3:27 PM EST up reply actions  

Having two ELC centers kind of skews that though.

There is no problem a hammer cannot either fix or make irrelevant.

by timmyv38 on Dec 17, 2010 10:18 PM EST up reply actions  

And you’re getting what you’re paying for with them, though.

by RCheli on Dec 18, 2010 3:39 PM EST up reply actions  

The smart way to do it is to get one guy you really want at 3.5-4, then spend minimally on the guy you plan to put in the press box to back him up.

This game is all about overcoming diversity.

by D'ohboy on Dec 17, 2010 2:56 PM EST up reply actions  

One thing's for certain

After reading all the comments, I think we at least all agree in wondering why on earth this couldn’t wait until the offseason.

by cainoo7x on Dec 17, 2010 2:50 PM EST reply actions  

I really don’t have much of an opinion on this deal since I was so totally wrong on Erskine going into this season. I had him pegged as nothing more than an injury fill-in, but he’s been a hell of a lot better than that so far. Is he more of a 6/7 defenseman than a 5/6? Probably. And if that’s the case, is he overpaid? Probably yes again, but not by a ridiculous amount. What I do find amazing is how virtually every person commenting believes this is a terrible deal, yet the guy who’s being paid to do this, and by all accounts is a fairly cautious guy, thinks exactly the opposite. Can it be as black and white as the two points of view are making it out to be? I doubt it. More than likely there will be stretches of games where Erskine will look like a good deal at $1.5 mil and other stretches where he’ll look he should have been paid half that amount. Still the difference of opinion is startling but fun to read.

by b.orr4 on Dec 17, 2010 2:52 PM EST reply actions   1 recs

Maybe it’s not a terrible deal in and of itself. I’m convinced he was going to get a small raise, and his current salary was the one I had more of a problem with rather than a 250k raise. Not loving 2 more years instead of one, but it’s not too nuts. The timing of the deal strikes as the major worry.

Everything ends badly...otherwise it wouldn't end.

by Davethecapsfan on Dec 17, 2010 2:54 PM EST up reply actions  

It’s not black and white until you consider that there is a salaray cap limiting the amount of money a team can spends on its roster. Once you factor in the salary cap, effectively managing that cap becomes essential. Paying $1.5 mil to a player who ideally is skating in half the games or less as a 6D/7D is not effectively managing the cap.

by cainoo7x on Dec 17, 2010 3:00 PM EST up reply actions  

Does anyone else get the feeling that this signing won’t be the lead story in on the local DC sports channels?

Perhaps this explains the timing…

Just trying to capture the spirit of the thing...

by dcsportsfan1 on Dec 17, 2010 3:10 PM EST reply actions  

A signing of John Erskine would NEVER be a lead story on DC sports media. No need to worry about timing.

You perhaps knew me better as "Your Nation's Capital." Same great commentary, now with 100% more transparency!

by EmilyB on Dec 17, 2010 3:14 PM EST up reply actions  

So you are saying we shouldn’t expect a John Feinstein column suggesting that the Caps should have traded him for Dennis Potvin instead?

Just trying to capture the spirit of the thing...

by dcsportsfan1 on Dec 17, 2010 3:29 PM EST up reply actions  

Not Potvin. He’s retired. Really. A few years back.

Feinstein will say we should go get Lidstrom. He’d pick Neidermeyer, but he’s retired too.

Life With Spidey -- a blog about sports, travel, work, family and fun.
Representing Caps fandom in the Gateway to the West.

by STLSpidey on Dec 17, 2010 3:33 PM EST up reply actions  

Feinsteins “knowledge” of the NHL outside of DC is the Islanders. That’s why he suggested we trade for Roloson.

Just trying to capture the spirit of the thing...

by dcsportsfan1 on Dec 17, 2010 3:38 PM EST up reply actions  

Gotcha.

Life With Spidey -- a blog about sports, travel, work, family and fun.
Representing Caps fandom in the Gateway to the West.

by STLSpidey on Dec 17, 2010 3:42 PM EST up reply actions  

When the Redskins starting quarterback is benched, WWIII wouldn’t be the lead story.

by b.orr4 on Dec 17, 2010 3:22 PM EST up reply actions  

Wasn’t there a major tax bill sent to the President last night?

Life With Spidey -- a blog about sports, travel, work, family and fun.
Representing Caps fandom in the Gateway to the West.

by STLSpidey on Dec 17, 2010 3:27 PM EST up reply actions  

I believe it was the Grossman-Beck bill.

by RCheli on Dec 17, 2010 3:29 PM EST up reply actions  

Deficit spending at it’s worst?

And getting really OT.

"It's always good to have vikings."

by gfcaps fan on Dec 17, 2010 3:46 PM EST up reply actions  

Speaking of which, I wonder if the Capitol One commercial will have Ovi helping McNabb move out of his house?

by b.orr4 on Dec 17, 2010 4:13 PM EST up reply actions  

Oh, boy.

"It's always good to have vikings."

by gfcaps fan on Dec 17, 2010 4:40 PM EST up reply actions  

:: headdesk ::

You perhaps knew me better as "Your Nation's Capital." Same great commentary, now with 100% more transparency!

by EmilyB on Dec 17, 2010 7:02 PM EST up reply actions  

Let’s not forget that the front office wanted to spend 3 (3.5?) on a third line center this year. The only thing that saved us from that cap disaster was a foolish loudmouth agent.

by Ginga on Dec 17, 2010 3:39 PM EST reply actions  

The offered deal for Belanger was two years at $1.5 million per. $3 million was the total.

by b.orr4 on Dec 17, 2010 3:44 PM EST up reply actions  

Belanger is worth that and then some.

by RCheli on Dec 17, 2010 3:47 PM EST up reply actions  

Agreed. To bad Eric didn’t think so.

by b.orr4 on Dec 17, 2010 4:12 PM EST up reply actions  

My bad! I don’t know why I had that number in my head. 1.5 would have been fine.

by Ginga on Dec 17, 2010 3:47 PM EST up reply actions  

It was 1.8 per, actually. /nitpick

You perhaps knew me better as "Your Nation's Capital." Same great commentary, now with 100% more transparency!

by EmilyB on Dec 17, 2010 7:06 PM EST up reply actions  

I thought it was more like $1.8 mil, but yeah.

by cainoo7x on Dec 17, 2010 3:41 PM EST reply actions  

Oops. Reply fail on my part.

by cainoo7x on Dec 17, 2010 3:41 PM EST up reply actions  

Not the Worst Thing...

Sure, we think of Erskine as a #7 defenseman, but on a bunch of teams in this league, he’s playing every night in the 5-6 pair. The Caps, when healthy, are blessed with 5 defensemen who are top 4 on any team in the league, maybe even 6 if you count Hannan. On a team like Ottawa, Erskine is a regular defenseman. The 7th D-man is going to get plenty of games as no team in the league is going to get 82 games out of 6 defensmen. He has an edge in that he knows the system. He is clearly having his best season this year and there’s no reason to think he might not have 2 good years left.

Plus, there’s no guarantee that Hannan is back in 2011-12….

Washington Capitals 2009-10 = Quebec Nordiques 1994-95
--- D'ohboy

by MikeL-Pivonka on Dec 17, 2010 4:51 PM EST reply actions  

but on a bunch of teams in this league, he’s playing every night in the 5-6 pair.

Sorry, but this is where you’re wrong. When healthy, he’s a 6/7 D on almost any team in the league.

At his current contract, to say nothing of his next one, I can’t see anyone in the league taking him on waivers.

This game is all about overcoming diversity.

by D'ohboy on Dec 17, 2010 9:58 PM EST up reply actions  

Teams like the Islanders and Avs could always pick up a player like Erksine on waivers. He is NHL level, at least more so than Sloan, and they in particular need to keep ahead of the salary limit.

Just as a counter point, do I think either team would do this? No.

If GMGM had resigned Erksine without Sloan being on contract beyond this year I’d say it was a good deal. But having 2.2 mil wrapped up in 2 players who won’t play most nights doesn’t seem overly wise.

Bruce Boudreau when asked about Brooks Laich's return to the lineup, he said: "He just adds another dimension to our team. If it was puzzle, he just fits that thing. He completes us."

Brooks Laich completing everything from teams to tires and everything in between.

by breaklance on Dec 17, 2010 11:14 PM EST up reply actions  

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