Thoughts on the Fleischmann/Hannan trade
by MyFriendCorey on Dec 1, 2010 2:58 AM EST
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As most fans know by now, the Washington Capitals traded 26-year old forward Tomas Fleischmann to the Colorado Avalanche in exchange for 31-year old defenseman Scott Hannan. I saw a move like this in the works for awhile since Fleishcmann is expandable and has played some very bad hockey these past few months. Moving him to address another need was a smart move, and the Caps have needed more defensive depth all year. Basically anything to keep Tyler Sloan from playing every night. If you don’t know Scott Hannan, he was billed as a "physical shutdown defenseman" by the Avs after they signed him to a 4 year $18 mil contract a few seasons ago. He never really lived up to that hype but he is a good defensive player and had a good season last year.
After the jump, I'll explain what I like and don't like about the trade.
What I Like About This Trade
Like I said earlier, the Caps are moving a player who isn’t performing and doesn’t seem to have a place on a team. Fleischmann played well at the beginning of last season but only had 8 points in 18 games after the Olympic break last year and was brutal in the playoffs. He only has 10 points in 23 games this year despite getting top 6 minutes and having time on the powerplay unit.
I also like this move because it gives us more depth defensively and likely means that Tyler Sloan or Brandon Fahey will not play that many games for the rest of the year. With Hannan, we have 7 NHL caliber defenseman and one fringe player. Another move could be on the way or we might just waive Sloan now. I don’t see Hannan being more than a 3rd pairing defenseman but hopefully this will take the burden off Mike Green a little bit so he wont be playing near a half-hour a night. A defense corps of Green/Schultz, Alzner/Carlson, Poti/Hannan definitely looks like an improvement. Hannan can handle big minutes and kill penalties so that will be a huge help. Hopefully it will get Poti off the PK, at least.
What I Don’t Like About This Trade
Hannan’s cap hit is $4.5 mil but he only has a year left on his contract and it’s not that bad of a hit when taking away Flash’s $2.6 mil. You can definitely say that there were better options out there but McPhee didn’t want to give any free agent a multi-year contract, which is understandable. I am hoping people have realistic expectations about Hannan because his recent numbers don’t exactly say "big shutdown defenseman" like most are suggesting. If we’re just going to use him as a depth defenseman that can play big minutes, then I’m fine with it.
Another thing is that people say we could have gotten more for Fleischmann but I have to think his trade value is low right now and the only other rumor I heard was him going to Vancouver for Kevin Bieksa, which I didn’t want. Hannan is definitely a better option than Bieksa but I still believe that going after someone cheaper in free agency this summer could have been a more favorable move.
Also, with Flash gone there’s still the hole at 2nd line center which isn’t filled. As of right now, rookie Marcus Johansson has that position and he’s been playing very well since coming back from injury. Still have to remember that he’s only 20 and a rookie but he’s outperformed some expectations I’ve had for him. Johansson and possibly Mathieu Perrault will get chances at centering the 2nd line before McPhee decides if he’s going to make a move for someone to fill that hole. I can definitely see another trade coming very soon.
Final Verdict
Overall, I like the trade and think it makes sense for both teams. Caps get rid of an unnecessary piece to fix another area, while the Avs move a big contract and get someone up front to help with the scoring now that Chris Stewart is hurt. I could see Flash doing well for the Avalanche if he's moved back to right wing since the transition to center seemed to throw him off his game.
One thing I'm wondering is that will another D-man be moved soon? Washington has 8 on the books right now and I think one of them could be moved or possibly waived soon.
If this FanPost is written by someone other than one of the blog's editors, the opinions expressed in it do not necessarily reflect those of this blog or SB Nation.
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Marcus Johansson has essentially played Tomas Fleischmann off the team. I think it’s as simple as that – even at 20 and with a couple handfuls of NHL games under his belt, he’s outplayed Fleischmann at center and he’s hardly even shown us most of what he has yet.
I don’t see any downside to this deal, other than it didn’t come earlier in the season; there’s still ample cap space, there’s enough depth on D that Green or Poti can heal up without saddling the team with Fahey and/or Sloan.
Left out of your notes above, but probably important – addition by subtraction. Along with MP and MJ’s extra ice time and reduced ice time for some of the defense, moving Flash will probably give Chimera, Gordon, and Fehr more ice time – likely to be beneficial… plus I will personally do a lot less repeatedly yelling “who the hell is he passing that puck to, there’s no one there” during games, so also likely to be beneficial to my blood pressure.
That said, I wish Flash some better luck and maybe some better chemistry with his new team. He had 60 regular season goals with the Capitals and 11 of those were game winners, so there were definitely some good times.
The eagle never lost so much time as when he submitted to learn from the crow.
Hannan is definitely a better option than Bieksa but I still believe that going after someone cheaper in free agency this summer could have been a more favorable move.
I get that Hannan is a better option than Bieksa, but I don’t get the second part of this statement. You would wait until after this season to make a move for a defenseman? Let one more year go by where the team has a more than legitimate shot to win the Cup? A guy like Hannan is who should have been brought in last year as opposed to Corvo.
I think the one loser in this deal is John Erskine. I’ll admit that I was never his biggest fan, but he had a great November, but now it looks as if he’ll be relegated to the 7D spot. Regardless, the harder it is for Fahey or Sloan to crack the lineup, the better this team is.
I think the writer meant this past summer, before the season started. That said, I don’t know who they had in mind.
by Gin and Tonic on Dec 1, 2010 8:53 AM EST up reply actions
Ahhhhh… that makes a little more sense. My mistake.
by JimCareyFanClub on Dec 1, 2010 9:10 AM EST up reply actions
Don’t sleep on Erskine. He’s playing the best hockey of his life, especially when paired with somebody other than 89. That being said, he is our 7th dman right now, and if our 7th dman is going to play like that, I like our chances.
Then again, we usually get enough injuries on the blue line so fans of Erskine will see plenty of him for the rest of this season.
Rocking the Red for the Caps since 1975. Rocking the Red on additional fronts as well.
My favorite parts of this trade
1. Never having to see Flash on our PP again.
2. Never having to see Flash on our PP again.
3. Never having to see Flash on our PP again.
4. Never having to see Flash on our PP again.
A major component of our losses in the PIT and MON series because we could not get Flash off the PP until game 7. If you are not going to go to the net and get in people’s way, there’s no room for you on the PP with 8, 19, 28 and 52/74 out there.
Hannan fills the void left by Juice/Mo, and he’s an upgrade over those two.
Now the focus turns to: How to never give King a sweater again after tonight. Tonight, it’s payback for the targeting of Semin in last year’s contest. Time to break some spines.
Yup. And I remember that game well. The Blues had come into VC and David Backes had cross checked Semin in the back, reinjuring him there. (Semin had missed about a month due to a pinched nerve in the back and he had only gotten back in the lineup relatively recently at that point.
Rocking the Red for the Caps since 1975. Rocking the Red on additional fronts as well.
I think the biggest winner in this trade is Flash. He gets to go back to the wing, and will have Stastny and (fellow Czech) Hejduk to play with; that’s a recipe for a 60 point season and a raise if I’ve ever seen one. Still good for the Caps though, more room in the top 6 and lesson room on D, both of which are things we want.
I guess this means I should change my name though…
Old enough to hate the Red Wings, but too young to really remember why.
by Flash in the Pan on Dec 1, 2010 2:49 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
I seem to remember a line on the Rangers with that moniker???
by Moonage Daydream on Dec 1, 2010 5:16 PM EST up reply actions
The guy at Copper and Blue and maybe the people with #14 Caps jerseys.
All the Caps media and commentators here seem to be pretty happy about the trade.
Yeah, that one commenter. Copper and Blue is Oilers though.
My blog and Twitter, featuring coverage of the most unpredictable team in the NHL and where we defend Mike Green, Alex Ovechkin, and Alexander Semin until the bitter end. That is to say, when someone tries to call BS on the Corsi numbers.
If you don't know how to use Timeonice, read this.
"Numbers don't lie, they just don't agree with you"--George E. Ays
by red army line on Dec 1, 2010 8:02 PM EST up reply actions
Avs fan from MHH here
Hey gents and ladies, I am visiting from Mile High Hockey curious on your thoughts for this trade.
First off, Flash highlights decently but what is he like away from the highlights? What about this talk that he isn’t playing his natural position
Second, I am trying to do a poll to predict who will ‘win’ this trade in the long run. I am asking fans of both teams and hoping for honest votes. It will be interesting to compare the results next year. Please vote Here.
Thanks!
"I’m predicting 50pts in the NHL for Hensick next season. Anyone want to put $20 on it?" - DetAvs, Jun 18, 2010 3:45 AM EDT
by Hardshell_Taco_del_Lowayne on Dec 1, 2010 10:35 PM EST reply actions
Flash is a wing who can (sort of) play center. He has a fairly good shot and skating ability, but makes bad choices too often. If he is with solid linemates, he can be productive – 25 goals a year would be expected. And he has NO physicality. He is capable of playing as a top 6 forward who can PP fairly well.
There is no problem a hammer cannot either fix or make irrelevant.
the best place to go for an unfiltered look at tomas fleischmann: his JR “rink wraps” where the editors here break down each player’s season postmortem.
flash rink wrap 09-10
flash rink wrap 08-09
flash rink wrap 07-08
by Natty Bumppo on Dec 1, 2010 11:14 PM EST up reply actions
since i think this blog needs more tylerG, here were his thoughts on flash after 07-08:
Flash looks like a 2009 fourth-round pick, only with curlier hair.
His numbers would be tolerable if he was an ace PK or if there was some other component of his game. There isn’t.
and then
I’m obviously in the ‘trade him’ camp, but I’d have to concede it’s pretty unusual for a team to sign a guy to an (inexplicable tho tiny) two-year contract and then trade him a couple months later.
by Natty Bumppo on Dec 1, 2010 11:17 PM EST up reply actions
Don’t forget the Flash Mock Arb!
"Essentially, all models are wrong, but some are useful" George E.P. Box
by Knee high to a duck on Dec 2, 2010 7:13 AM EST up reply actions
Thanks.
"I’m predicting 50pts in the NHL for Hensick next season. Anyone want to put $20 on it?" - DetAvs, Jun 18, 2010 3:45 AM EDT
by Hardshell_Taco_del_Lowayne on Dec 2, 2010 1:36 PM EST up reply actions
He is a good goal scorer and does best as a winger. Most of his better games were before we switched him to center around January of last season. However, I consider him a player that’s useless when he’s not putting up points. He tends to take bad penalties at awful times and turn the puck over a lot, which killed us in the playoffs for the last two seasons. Those problems seemed to magnify when he was moved to center, especially the turnovers.
He can be decent for the Avs since a change of scenery helps some players and that he will be moving back to right wing. Having a linemate like Stastny will help too.
As for who the “winner” of this trade is, that remains to be seen.
"My Sports Blog":http://myfriendcorey.wordpress.com
by MyFriendCorey on Dec 1, 2010 11:55 PM EST up reply actions
The way I look at it, this trade should make both teams better. Flash is a Top 6 wing, but with Ovechkin, Semin, Laich, and Knuble, there really isn’t a place for him in the Top 6 here. He’s been used at Center, but he isn’t good enough at it to fill the 2C role. He’s not gritty enough to be a 3rd or 4th liner, which means he’s basically going to be used here in a role that is less than ideal, or as spare parts.
Those are expensive spare parts. So in trading him, we get a much needed 5th or 6th defenseman (if not better) and you guys get a solid young winger that you can use far better than we can.
I’m not sure who will “win” this trade, but I don’t see any losers coming out of it.
I am a hockey fan first, and a Caps fan second.
He’s not a guy that takes the puck, moves it up the ice, and creates his own shot or a shot for someone else (like Ovechkin, Crosby, Parise, Stastny, etc). He really needs to other guys to get the puck in the defensive zone for him. He’s a complementary piece on a line, he doesn’t make a line. That being said, the Avs have several guys that should only need a complementary piece to put up more points.
My blog and Twitter, featuring coverage of the most unpredictable team in the NHL and where we defend Mike Green, Alex Ovechkin, and Alexander Semin until the bitter end. That is to say, when someone tries to call BS on the Corsi numbers.
If you don't know how to use Timeonice, read this.
"Numbers don't lie, they just don't agree with you"--George E. Ays
by red army line on Dec 2, 2010 9:17 AM EST up reply actions
who will ‘win’ this trade in the long run
In the long run, we’re all dead. Seriously though, there is no “long run” to this deal. Both players are UFAs at the end of this season. The Avs have more cap room to re-sign Flash, but I’ll doubt that you’ll want to keep him if/when Mueller, Stewart and Galiardi are healthy. The Caps may want to re-sign Hannan in the offseason, but he’ll likely be too expensive, given the large contracts they’ll have to give Semin, Laich, et al.
In the short run, this is likely a “win” for both teams. Hannan is the better/more valuable player of the two by far, but the Avs were desperate for a winger, given the aforementioned injuries (as I’m sure you well know). Flash will do a passable job for a couple months until the Avs can get healthy. If you give him enough PP TOI, he’ll get some goals, particularly if you pair him up with Stats and Duke.
Hannan could end up being the Lebowski Rug for the Caps’ defensive corps. The Caps have endured repeated nagging injuries to players like Poti, Green and Carlson this year, and John Erskine’s history suggests that he’ll miss some time with injury as well. Hannan could really “pull the room together,” by preventing the Caps from having to dip too far into the AHL for spare defensemen in case of injury and, when everyone is healthy, Hannan’s acquisition prevents marginal guys like Sloan and Erskine from getting regular sweaters.
Anyhow, both teams should benefit from this trade. As both an Avs and Caps fan, the point I’ve been trying to make to both sides is to keep expectations in check. If Avs fans are expecting the second coming of Milan Hejduk or Valeri Kamensky, they’re going to be deeply disappointed. Flash isn’t even Martin Rucinsky, or early-career Svatos. If Caps fans are expecting a physical stay-at-home player like Rod Langway or Brendan Witt, they’re going to be likewise disappointed. A good game from Hannan is one where his name never gets called.
If pressed, I’d say that relatively speaking the Caps “won” this trade on paper. Much will depend on what Flash does with the opportunity being presented to him in Colorado. He’s got the talent, but he’s frequently lacked the focus or willpower.
And I hear you talk the talk, but I don't see you walk the walk and I still don't believe a thing you say.
by D'ohboy on Dec 2, 2010 10:38 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Couple of notes. The long-run in this case is obviously just through their contracts. I am curious what we all think at that point as well.
Re: Resigning Hannan. I bet you could resign him for much less than his current $4.5. This last contract was his big payday.
"I’m predicting 50pts in the NHL for Hensick next season. Anyone want to put $20 on it?" - DetAvs, Jun 18, 2010 3:45 AM EDT
by Hardshell_Taco_del_Lowayne on Dec 2, 2010 1:39 PM EST up reply actions
Even at far less than 4.5m, the Caps will be hard-pressed to re-sign him.
Next year, we’ll have about $23m to sign 10 players, but those 10 players include Alex Semin, Brooks Laich, Mike Knuble, Boyd Gordon, Matt Bradley, Semyon Varlamov (RFA) and Karl Alzner (RFA).
It’ll be an interesting offseason for the Caps, and one that will be an interesting model for a team like the Avs going forward, since they’ll also have a bevy of talented young players all needing new contracts in a few years.
And I hear you talk the talk, but I don't see you walk the walk and I still don't believe a thing you say.
Kozlov taught me that if you can’t figure out why or how the Lebowski Rug ties the room together, the room would probably be fine without it…
(not that I’m saying Hannan would be like Kozlov in that respect)
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Dec 3, 2010 6:24 PM EST up reply actions
Cool Avatar
Baroness is one of my favorite bands.
And I hear you talk the talk, but I don't see you walk the walk and I still don't believe a thing you say.
My .02
I will say up front that I’m one of those folks in a #14 sweater. I like Flash. Always have.
That said… he hasn’t really fit in on the Caps lineup this season, in part because he’s been stuck playing center when he should be at wing. I’ve been saying, “Dammit, Flash!” at least as often as “Dammit, Ovi!” and “Dammit, Sasha!” this year… “Dammit, Greenie!” you get the idea.
He’s been bashed up one side and down the other by the collective fan base – leaving me to wonder who will get all the vitriol now that he’s gone, but also relieved that the vitriol is now over for him from Caps fans, and I don’t have to listen to it any more.
I like the trade; like that we’re getting a stay-at-home defenseman, and especially like that Flash can now go someplace where his talents will be of more use, and he will be (hopefully) more appreciated.
I do NOT believe last season was a fluke for him, and I’m looking forward to continuing to follow his career and development in his new venue. Hopefully the change of scenery will do him a world of good.
Photography: I Rock the Red
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As for our new LOTR Hobbit defender Hannan, I thought he looked pretty good last night in his first game with the Caps.
Kudos to everyone with the bazillon threads and this fanshot analyzing the trade. I still haven’t caught up but I sure have learned a lot about our new guy.
And I also wish Flash well with the Avs. I know it’s part of the game but it’s never easy losing a teammate. And he was a great guy in the locker room tho’ I think the Caps have a great locker room overall.
My son was teary-eyed and wanted to know why we couldn’t keep Flash and get rid of someone else, Sloan for example (sorry he’s not part of the Sloan fan club), but I explained that one had to give up something of comparable value to get something the team needed in return. And moreover that we needed Sloan as defender backup should—god forbid—we get anymore injuries on the blueline.
Alright, confess-how many goals are you going to make this year?
"I'm not going to tell!"
Well can you at least guarantee fifty?
"No way. I have a different objective. To win."
Also, with Flash gone there’s still the hole at 2nd line center which isn’t filled.
It wasn’t filled prior to Fleischmann’s departure, either. An asset that was redundant at best was converted into an asset that filled a legitimate need. The 2nd line center is still a need, but the big, reliable, tough, minute-eating defensman no longer is. A clear win for the Caps in this trade from my perspective.
by shotfromthepoint on Dec 4, 2010 1:33 PM EST reply actions
Laich or Mackan can fill that hole for now, and either can do it much better than Flash. The Caps still need to get a 2C before the season ends, and hopefully well before the trade deadline, but the situation now is tolerable. That won’t be the case if things haven’t changed by the playoffs though.
There is no problem a hammer cannot either fix or make irrelevant.
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