Scott Hannan/Tomas Fleischmann Trade Analysis
by David Getz on Dec 1, 2010 10:30 AM EST
Email
PrintWhenever a trade's made in any sport, it seems like the question everyone wants to ask is, "Who won?" It's a natural question given the fact that professional sports are, at their core, based around competition, and memories of lopsided deals that would shape respective franchises for years to come (think Cam Neely coming to Boston from Vancouver, or the Eric Lindros deal) only make it more tempting to try and assign a "winner" and "loser" to the deal.
But that type of evaluation is only part of the process. What's just as important if you're a general manager - or perhaps even more important when you're talking about midseason trades in a salary cap world - is how a player fits in to your team. And that's what made Tomas Fleischmann expendable for the Washington Capitals.
Fleischmann's not a bad player by any means, but his ability to contribute to the Capitals isn't all that high. He didn't have the defensive prowess or playmaking skill to be an effective second line center, and he didn't have the skill set to be an effective bottom six forward. Three of the four top six wing spots are spoken for with Alex Ovechkin, Alexander Semin, and Mike Knuble, and Brooks Laich and Eric Fehr (current slump notwithstanding) offer comparable offense to go along with better defensive play and stronger forechecking. Fleischmann was simply squeezed out; fifth or sixth on a depth chart that only had room for four. The only way he would get to play the role he was best suited for was if other players fell victim to injury, and even then his skill set may not have been the best way for this team to use a roster spot. In simple terms, he just didn't have a ton of usefulness for the Capitals.
What the team's front office has thus done with yesterday's trade is turn nothing in to something, taking an asset that didn't have much value and swapping it for one that addresses one of the team's biggest needs.
Scott Hannan isn't going to be a Norris Trophy finalist, an all-star, or a household name; he's not an elite shutdown player or a major physical force. Yet adding him to the Capitals lineup instantly makes the team significantly stronger. Tyler Sloan and John Erskine will be the ones who will see the steepest reduction in ice time, providing everyone gets and stays healthy, but Hannan's addition does more than bump Erskine and Sloan down on the depth chart - it provides the potential to make every other member of the team's defense corps more effective.
At even strength, Hannan's addition means the Capitals can be more judicious about how they deploy first-year defensemen Karl Alzner and John Carlson, both in terms of ice time and in terms of matchups, and won't have to rely as heavily on Mike Green and Jeff Schultz, leaving each with more energy for the special teams situations where they're most valuable. Shorthanded, Hannan gives the team another solid penalty killer and should lessen the load for Schultz and Tom Poti, giving them some reprieve from one of the game's most exhausting situations. That the addition of Hannan will allow the team's other defensemen to be more easily put in positions where they can be successful is likely to be the deal's biggest benefit.
The most impressive part, however, is the job of asset management by the Capitals. They turned a redundant player in to one that address one of their most pressing concerns, shedding an asset that cost more than it was worth while simultaneously making their team better, deeper, and harder to play against. And that goes a long way towards building a Stanley Cup team.
65 comments
|
8 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
Good job as always David.
How it lessens the TOI for some of our upper pairing guys I agree is likely the biggest upside in getting Hannan. Quiet and steady play and less egregious WTF moments we were having as we watched TySlo will be the added benefits.
I poured spot remover on my dog. Now he's gone.
FYI
Hannan was often paired with young players on Colorado’s blue line (Quincey all last season, and this season he was getting a lot of time with Shattenkirk).
He’s been pretty good in the mentor/tutor role you mention above.
Your mama so ugly they call her "The Avs Powerplay"
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time
by Jibblescribbits on Dec 1, 2010 10:49 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
Whenever a trade’s made in any sport, it seems like the question everyone wants to ask is, “Who won?”
That answer’s easy.
Whoever gets the Cup :)
So, do we still need to acquire a shutdown defenseman at the trade deadline?
A Capital Wasteland - art & hockey from Washington, D.C.
Depends on the injury situation. Assuming good health I’d say no, but it’d be good to have another guy to back up Erskine, just in case (only on a really good deal, like the Walker trade, though).
My blog and Twitter, featuring coverage of the most unpredictable team in the NHL and where we defend Mike Green, Alex Ovechkin, and Alexander Semin until the bitter end. That is to say, when someone tries to call BS on the Corsi numbers.
If you don't know how to use Timeonice, read this.
"Numbers don't lie, they just don't agree with you"--George E. Ays
by red army line on Dec 1, 2010 11:25 AM EST up reply actions
The defense has been fairly solid this season – certainly better than last year. Hannan puts a good finishing touch, at least for now, on that.
Let’s not forget it was the forward corps struggling against Halak last season that really did the team in. I’d expect a decent 2C to show up close to the deadline or no move at all. It depends how much Johansson matures over the next few months.
As good as Johansson has been, for a rookie, I don’t see him maturing to 2c by the end of the season. As many Backstrom comparisons have been made they just aren’t the same. I could see him acquiring the 2C role possibly next year, but I also expect 2c and 3c to be a heated fight all of next season between MattyP and MoJo.
Acquiring a 2c depends on what we give up to get it. At this point on the team I don’t see anyone the organization views as expendable. So you turn to prospects and picks, the Caps are deep in that department but how many of them would they never consider trading. I personally think GMGM is trying to play up the value of his 3 goalies by saying he’d never trade them, but as Holtby matures the Caps will have 3 NHL quality goalies and that just doesn’t mesh.
Bruce Boudreau when asked about Brooks Laich's return to the lineup, he said: "He just adds another dimension to our team. If it was puzzle, he just fits that thing. He completes us."
Brooks Laich completing everything from teams to tires and everything in between.
I wouldn’t be totally shocked to see GMGM reacquire Jurcina at the deadline. He’s cheap, familiar, a UFA and better than Sloan/Fahey in the event of injury.
And I hear you talk the talk, but I don't see you walk the walk and I still don't believe a thing you say.
I still weep for Pothier, though I know it can’t happen.
"And then they’ll look at guys in my situation, that could play three good games in a row and have one bad shift, and they’ll say, ‘Well, that’s why he’s been in the minor leagues his whole career.'" --Matt Hendricks
I remember watching his post game interview the first time he played against the caps at the VC…he seemed SO SO sad. It is a business…but it is still real people.
I like Laich, but I <3 Green
by RockinRed4Life on Dec 1, 2010 6:13 PM EST up reply actions
Jerky
If the Caps only paid a bit more than last year (which was basically nothing), then this would be great.
It almost completely eliminates Sloan, and Jurcina > Erskine.
Lumberjack is on a great run. In the past he’d do great for 3-4 games and then get tired or injured b/c he would try and be so physical. He can still get injured or revert. Having Jurcina alternate with Ersk or replace him would be nice.
And Semin would have someone else to hug.
There seem three levels that you can evaluate the impact of this trade:
1) Immediate help to the team
2) Future Impact to the Team
3) Change in Team’s Overall Plans
Looking just at the Caps, In terms of 1) It seems pretty well settled that this trade improves the D without significantly weakening forwards. Flash was given his “one last chance” to actually work out as a 2C (which was a stretch), he couldn’t and with depth at forward, either he or Fehr was going to be the odd man out. In terms of 2) the trade is a wash. Flash was going to leave (likely) as an UFA at years’ end and likely Hannan could be gone as well. In terms of 3) This one might be harder to measure. But if we can now say there is a “life without Flash” for the Caps, this now turns the attention to which of the current UFA forwards do you sign (Laich, Fehr, Knuble, Semin…). My bet is that 2 out of the 4 return, with the hopes of return in that order (baring another trade). I don’t know, maybe it’s my bad habit, but I like thinking not just of who we have this year but how this trade could impact who we have years down the road.
Everything sounds smarter in Tikkanesse....
Fehr is signed through 2012.
You perhaps knew me better as "Your Nation's Capital." Same great commentary, now with 100% more transparency!
And an RFA after that!
(our sigs seem to be talking to each other)
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Dec 1, 2010 4:52 PM EST up reply actions
Of those 4 UFA forwards, I’d put the most money on Knuble not returning. If he does expect a Federov type 1 year deal.
If Sasha wants to stay in washington, with Ovechkin and Nicky, and Mike (of whom theres plenty of photographic evidence of their “close” friendships) he’ll figure out a way that won’t kill the team.
Laich seems like the organization really values him and would stick around.
Bruce Boudreau when asked about Brooks Laich's return to the lineup, he said: "He just adds another dimension to our team. If it was puzzle, he just fits that thing. He completes us."
Brooks Laich completing everything from teams to tires and everything in between.
If he does expect a Federov type 1 year deal.
hah, Presumably not at 4 million
Because now I can justify browsing and commenting during the work day with the argument that I am promoting my business.
by Sombrero Guy on Dec 1, 2010 12:26 PM EST up reply actions
It’ll be interesting to see how the pairings shape after this deal. Green and Shultz, Carlson and Alzner work very well together and are uber comfortable with each other. Poti seemed to be the odd man out in that regard despite being the formerly most veteraned player on the D corps.
If anything I could see the lines becoming:
Green-Shultz
Carlson-Poti
Hannan-Alzner
Green and Shultz are still the top pair and will be. Carlson and Poti had a lot of success in last years playoffs. While the top two lines are balanced with defensive and offensive power it leaves a great shut-down line in Hannan-Alzner who seem to play similar. Hannan does well mentoring other younger plays and of the top 6 Alzner is the least “skilled” which says a lot in itself because Alzner is and does play quite well. I think back to the TBL game in which he did get out-manuevered by Martin St. Louis for his breakaway, but Alzner stayed with him put up a lot of backchecking pressure without committing a penalty and was there for the rebound. Very smart play recovering from his mistake.
Otherwise I could see Hannan-Poti together which would end up being one of the most veteraned pairings in the league combining together for almost 1700(1694) NHL games including regular season and post season games(1570 / 124). Over in Boston, a group pretty known for their defensive play, their most experienced guys(Chara and Ference) whom I’m not sure if they play together often, combine for 1611 (1461 / 150) NHL games.
Skillset differences aside that’s a lot of puck for two early 30 yr olds.
Bruce Boudreau when asked about Brooks Laich's return to the lineup, he said: "He just adds another dimension to our team. If it was puzzle, he just fits that thing. He completes us."
Brooks Laich completing everything from teams to tires and everything in between.
I don’t see breaking up Carlson/Alzner. They’ve been effective and Hannan can mentor them plenty in practice. I like the idea of a Hannan/Poti pairing.
"Now wait a minute. This is just purely a social call. You know, just two adults getting a stew on, man."
by The Ghost of Bebop on Dec 1, 2010 11:47 AM EST up reply actions
I’m mixed on it. I think it could be a great pairing but for a 3rd set a waste. Unless BB pretty much pushes all 3 pairings to 20 minutes a game. Which would be great for Green and Carlson who have been playing 25 minutes or more a game.
Bruce Boudreau when asked about Brooks Laich's return to the lineup, he said: "He just adds another dimension to our team. If it was puzzle, he just fits that thing. He completes us."
Brooks Laich completing everything from teams to tires and everything in between.
I think that may be the idea, though, or close to it.
Just like forwards I think ideally you want to be able to roll 3 D pairs so no one pair gets over-tired. 52-55 will probably still get more minutes (esp. between Green’s time on both special teams and Schultz’s on the PK), around 23-24 minutes apiece, while the other two pairs get around 18-20 minutes each. And with Hannan in the mix I could see Green’s PK time going down a little, which as good as he’s been would be nice.
Then, just as the team kind of has (or has had in the past) a #1 line and a #1a line, they’d have a #2 pair and a #2a pair.
…but then I’m no coach so I guess we’ll see :)
If anyone needs me, I'll be at Kettler.
That was my feeling as well. I was figuring that Hannan could play with Poti (but occasionally with Alzner, as well) and all 3 defensive pairings would get decent minutes. I figure both Hannan and Poti are 2nd caliber defense pairing players (but luckily our kids have so far shown they can play a good amount of minutes.)
Rocking the Red for the Caps since 1975. Rocking the Red on additional fronts as well.
Carlson/Alzner certainly have chemistry from Hershey, and one hopes and imagines they will be linemates for years to come in DC. But at this point in time, I would say its better that they get some on-ice mentoring from the older players and learn how to play effectively with a rotation.
In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.
You heard wrong. GMGM put money into a cloning machine and at Gabby’s request Tomas Flieshmann was cloned.
Bruce Boudreau when asked about Brooks Laich's return to the lineup, he said: "He just adds another dimension to our team. If it was puzzle, he just fits that thing. He completes us."
Brooks Laich completing everything from teams to tires and everything in between.
....
I poured spot remover on my dog. Now he's gone.
by Rather Bengt on Dec 1, 2010 12:14 PM EST up reply actions
...
Bruce Boudreau when asked about Brooks Laich's return to the lineup, he said: "He just adds another dimension to our team. If it was puzzle, he just fits that thing. He completes us."
Brooks Laich completing everything from teams to tires and everything in between.
Nice analysis. Agreed that aside from his actual play, Hannan’s biggest contribution will be in allowing the proper rotation for the rest of the defense corps. Erskine has done better than anyone could have imagined, but sooner or later he was going to find his true level. If that had happened in the playoffs..well, I don’t want to think about the outcome. Now, at the #7 spot, Boudreau can pick his spots for Erskine and he’ll end up being that much more effective down the stretch. More importantly. Sloan is now an emergency move. Barring a major injury, this defense now matches up with any other team in the east both in talent and fit.
I’m not sure we do match up with every other team in the east. PHI is still ahead of us, IMO. You may be able to convince me into considering a couple other teams as well.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
Talk to me in March, when Bobo the Goalie has been figured out, and Michael Leighton is Plan B.
If you've read this far...seek help.
I thought we were just talking about D. Of course PHI has the goaltending questions (though we easily could too if Varly’s groin explodes and we get November Neuvirth instead of October Neuvirth), but their D corps is beastly.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
No doubt. Pronger/Carle, Timonen/Coburn, Mesjzaros/O’Donnell is killer.
"Essentially, all models are wrong, but some are useful" George E.P. Box
by Knee high to a duck on Dec 1, 2010 3:29 PM EST up reply actions
I’m not sold on S O’D for spring of 2011. Let’s just say I’m glad our new veteran acquisition is 31, not 39
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Dec 1, 2010 5:49 PM EST up reply actions
I’m pretty impressed with PIT’s D-Corp. After a couple of rough outings earlier this season, it looks like Martin and Michalek have really settled in;. Letang/Goligoski, Martin/Michalek, Orpik/Engellend is pretty damn good. Definitely behind PHI, though.
"Essentially, all models are wrong, but some are useful" George E.P. Box
by Knee high to a duck on Dec 1, 2010 3:28 PM EST up reply actions
PIT is one of the teams I could be talked into, but with Hannan I think I like ours better. Tough call because we have rookies, but I’d say Engelland is far and away the worst of the group, and I’m not impressed with Gogo outside the offensive zone. Letang still has to put it all together but he has a ton of potential and talent. If Carlznerson plays like they did against TBL, I think we get the nod. They are the wild card in all these comparisons.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
I agree with that completely, I’m just skeptical that those two continue to play at that level consistently. The Caps are in great shape if they do.
"Essentially, all models are wrong, but some are useful" George E.P. Box
by Knee high to a duck on Dec 1, 2010 3:49 PM EST up reply actions
It’s hard to bank on them playing like that, but I’m not as concerned with them hitting a rookie wall as Mackan. Both Alzner and Carlson have won two Calder Cups, and Alzner has two professional seasons. I think any drop off they see is likely to be the result of normal ups and downs of a young player, and not physical wear and tear. The reason I make that distinction is that the normal ups and downs are less lengthy and easier to rebound from. That means that if these guys have a rough February there’s still a chance we seem them playing great hockey come the playoffs. If Mackan drops off in Februrary, I think that’s probably going to stick for the rest of the year.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
i disagree with you about letang. he’s the total package this year. obviously 2nd on the team in points (ahead of malkin), but also 2nd on the team in BtN rating, solid corsi, etc., etc.
We’ll see if he keeps it up. Maybe this is the year he puts it all together, but I’m waiting to see more.
But it’s good to see you go to bat for your fantasy players even in a non-fantasy context.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
there’s not a lot more he can do. fair enough to wait until the end of the year to evaluate whether he’s completely turned the corner, i guess.
fantasy ownership goes a long way towards educating myself about a player, i’ll say that much. i’m a friggin’ expert on alex hemsky now.
I’m not impressed with Gogo outside the offensive zone.
You’re not alone. I know the Pensblog boys refer to him as “Goalagainstski”.
If anyone needs me, I'll be at Kettler.
Sheesh. So you love the Habs and TPB? I don’t get you.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
…accusing me of loving TPB might be the meanest thing you’ve ever said to me. Geez. I follow a couple of them on Twitter, always good to keep an eye on the enemy.
If anyone needs me, I'll be at Kettler.
Whatever. If I want Pens info I know who to go to, and it’s not a juvenile douche bag crew.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
by Rob Parker on Dec 1, 2010 4:58 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Good Timing
The timing is the best part for me. He now has time to ‘gel’ with the team and by April the pairings will be set. When you wait until the trade deadline you risk messing with the chemistry at the wrong time (last year).
He now has time to ‘gel’ with the team and by April the pairings will beset.completely fluid and different every other game.
"Don't mind WM...he's an all-around jerk."
by Whiter Mage on Dec 1, 2010 12:24 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Green has been averaging 2:57 of SH time this year.
In addition to what you said above, I think it makes sense to give a lot of this to Hannan, which would bring down Green’s minutes from 25:30 to something in the 22-23 range. Given his injuries this year,why not limit Green’s time SH, where higher risk situations such as increased shot blocking and taking hits to clear the zone are required.
I’d still give Green plenty of SH time. If he’s not the Caps’ best PK D, he’s second, probably.
My blog and Twitter, featuring coverage of the most unpredictable team in the NHL and where we defend Mike Green, Alex Ovechkin, and Alexander Semin until the bitter end. That is to say, when someone tries to call BS on the Corsi numbers.
If you don't know how to use Timeonice, read this.
"Numbers don't lie, they just don't agree with you"--George E. Ays
by red army line on Dec 1, 2010 8:25 PM EST up reply actions
The unspoken of element in many of the reviews is timing. That this is a good trade for both teams seems to be the consensus. But what strikes me is the timing, a trade for a defenseman with 55-or-so games to go. Some might argue, why not wait until closer to or at the trading deadline to save cap money? To that I have two words…
Joe Corvo.
Corvo was/is a very different defenseman from Scott Hannan, but that isn’t the issue here. What is, is the experience from last year in which Corvo was obtained at the deadline, then went on to look lost for much of the time to the point of not knowing where to position himself. It’s hard to learn a new system in the midst of games that matter (and a lack of practice given the playoff schedule), and Corvo never seemed to catch up.
Hannan doesn’t have to learn, necessarily, the finer points of offensive play from the blue line that Corvo had to learn, but he does have to learn what the Caps do on defense and establish some sort of chemistry with one or more of his blue line teammates. Now, he gets a 55-game course in that, instead of a crash course. By the time April comes around, these things might be instinctive for Hannan, whereas Corvo had to think his way through them…slowly. Adding a top-four defenseman at the deadline isn’t a recipe for success. This is smarter.
If you've read this far...seek help.
I don’t disagree that sooner is better than later, but I think the bigger problem with Corvo was that he was playing like he didn’t give a crap. You don’t have to know the ins and outs of a system to try to win a puck battle, and that was something we saw precious little of from Corvo.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
After reading through the comments I don’t have much to add, but I did want to say that this was a particularly good article
If it's too loud, turn it down.
by renstar on Dec 1, 2010 1:43 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
Related FanPosts on Japers' Rink
Related FanShots on Japers' Rink
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recent FanPosts
FanShots
Quick hits of video, photos, quotes, chats, links and lists that you find around the web.
Recent FanShots
The Vault
In Association With
Latest Puck Daddy - NHL from Yahoo! Sports
- Why the Devils and the Kings are evidence the Capitals shouldn’t trade Alex Ovechkin
- Eulogy: Remembering the 2011-12 New York Rangers
- Stanley Cup Final: 5 keys for New Jersey Devils and Los Angeles Kings
- Friday’s Three Stars: Devils head to Final; Brodeur, Kovalchuk the difference in Game 6
- Devils eliminate Rangers in Game 6, ending fear of the past, setting course for the future
