Wednesday Caps Clips: Caps @ Blues Game Day
by J.P. on Dec 1, 2010 6:26 AM EST
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PrintYour savory breakfast links:
- Previews of this evening's battle with the Blues from Vogs, Caps365 (video), NHL.com (Compton), Peerless, and KOL, and be sure to check out our SB Nation partner St. Louis Game Time for more coverage from the other side of tonight's match up.
- Coverage of the Tomas Fleischmann-for-Scott Hannan trade. [Caps365 video (McPhee), Dump 'n Chase, CSN Washington (Masisak), ESPN (Burnside/LeBrun), NHL.com (Lozo), NHL.com (Sadowski on Flash), The Hockey News (Proteau), Denver Post (Dater), WaPo (Carrera), CI (Carrera, Carrera) DCEx, Peerless, RMNB, Frankovic, WTOP Caps Blog, Houses of the Hockey, Dobber Hockey (fantasy impact), Box Seats, RtR, StC, KOL, Capitals Kremlin, Capitals News Network, Mile High Hockey, Capitals Outsider, Puckhead, SB Nation DC, OFB, PHT (and again), FtR, The Hockey Writers, NYT, PuckWorld]
- Denver Post Avs beat writer Adrian Dater's 2009-10 Report Card for Hannan. [All Things Avs]
- Radio hits:
- Brooks Laich on The Sports Junkies. [106.7 The Fan (audio)]
- Jeff Schultz on AM 1570 WNST. [WNST (audio)]
- George McPhee on The Greg Brady Show... [The FAN 590 (audio)]
- ... and on LaVar and Dukes. [106.7 The Fan (audio)]
- Mike Knuble on The Sports Fix. [ESPN 980 (audio)]
- Before the trade went down, the Caps' team-building outing at Quantico was poised to be the story of the
slow newsday. [Puck Daddy, SB Nation DC, RtR] - "If I was George McPhee, I'd take my chances with Alexander Semin and not extend him before the playoffs. If Semin really wants to stay, he'll find a way - after proving he can deliver when it matters." Nail, meet hammer. [CBC.ca (Friedman)]
- All hail your Southeast overlords! [SB Nation DC]
- Eric Fehr talks about hitting the road (not in the Fleischmann sense of the word, mind you). [CSN Washington (video)]
- Is John Erskine the dirtiest player in hockey? Uh, no. [From the Rink]
- What the Caps' goaltending situation is going to look like going forward is anyone's guess. [ESPN]
- Part I of an interview with HBO Sports President Ross Greenburg (I'll let you guess what the topic is). [NHL.com (Rosen)]
- Caps (and their prospects) are littered all around Scott Cullen's player rankings, including on his overall, rookie and AHL lists.
- True story: when I was finishing my basement, I put an Alex Ovechkin card behind the drywall. It wasn't this card. [We Love DC]
- Karl Alzner didn't have one of Movember's top 'staches? I demand a recount. [Puck Daddy]
- AO needs your vote. [Hockey Mom]
- A half-dozen questions with celeb Caps fan Samantha Casey. [Gunaxin]
- Monumental Sports and Entertainment is advancing the ball. [PR Web]
- Updates on injuries to Keith Aucoin and Patrick McNeill. [Patriot-News (Leone)]
- Great stuff on one of those AHLers, Andrew Gordon, who reveals that he has shot pucks in Sidney Crosby's childhood basement. Yes, the one with the dryer. [SHoE]
- Cody Eakin is excited for his WJC camp invite. [Shawn Mullin's Blog, Winnipeg Free Press]
- A look at Evgeny Kuznetsov 's sophomore season in the K. [RMNB]
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CSN+/NHLN depending on carrier, etc., plan accordingly.
"If you don't shut the [hell] up, I'm going to kick you in the balls so hard your dentist is going to have to work around them at your next cleaning."
The Caps got bumped for Wizards/Raptors?
/head desk
The bastards hung me in the spring of '25. But I am still alive.
Box Seats Blog
Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Dec 1, 2010 7:29 AM EST up reply actions
I’ll never understand why CSN doesn’t give priority to the winning team. CSN+ looks worse than SD!
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
But the NBA is where exciting happens!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The bastards hung me in the spring of '25. But I am still alive.
Box Seats Blog
Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Dec 1, 2010 8:37 AM EST up reply actions
Unless you’re a Comcast customer. CSN+HD looks just fine.
by DrinkingPartner on Dec 1, 2010 8:43 AM EST up reply actions
DirecTV for me. What really sucks is that Joe B. mentions the game is being broadcast in stunning HD!!!! the whole game when I can hardly see the puck on the ice.
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
000
On Cox it looks fine as well
?
The bastards hung me in the spring of '25. But I am still alive.
Box Seats Blog
Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Dec 1, 2010 9:45 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
They might as well just re-name CSN “The Redskins Channel”. I went to the gym yesterday figuring I’d get all the grit on the Hannan trade on Washington Post Live while on the treadmill. Instead I got ten minutes on the Skins-Vikings game, five minutes on the Arizona QB’s press conference and 15 seconds on the Caps trade. Man do I miss Russ Thaler.
They might as well just re-nameCSNevery single sports network "TheRedskinsNFL Channel".
Fixed.
The bastards hung me in the spring of '25. But I am still alive.
Box Seats Blog
Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Dec 1, 2010 8:57 AM EST up reply actions
$$$
CSN is a for-profit venture. They probably feel that putting all their eggs in the Caps basket isn’t a wise business decision, given the rights they paid to show Wizards games.
"[Boudreau] lets the offensive guys like myself and Brooks do our thing. A lot of dangling." - Matt Bradley
The Wizards start a 7 PM, the Caps at 8 PM. If it were reversed, then I suspect the Caps would have been on the main CSN and the Wiz on CSN+
Washington Capitals 2009-10 = Quebec Nordiques 1994-95
--- D'ohboy
by MikeL-Pivonka on Dec 1, 2010 1:15 PM EST up reply actions
So much material to work with on the FBI video, but, most of all, I hope the exploding penguin makes the big screen at VC! (gratuitous "Shultz can’t even hit the side of a door jokes soon to follow….).
I love Varly talking about blowing things up, right before the shot of the exploding Penguins, (Couldn’t happen to a more deserving stuffed bird.)
Rocking the Red for the Caps since 1975. Rocking the Red on additional fronts as well.
I love that he says we are “blowing things” and whoever is behind the camera quickly tells him to add “up”.
I like Laich, but I <3 Green
by RockinRed4Life on Dec 1, 2010 11:19 AM EST up reply actions
I can’t wait till OFB realizes that Scott Hannan only had 67 hits last year, which was one more that Jeff Schultz had (66).
This year, he’s got 26, which would tie him for 8th on the Caps with Karl Alzner, one ahead of John Carlson and Jason Chimera.
The bastards hung me in the spring of '25. But I am still alive.
Box Seats Blog
Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Dec 1, 2010 7:34 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
They should have realized it already.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
by J.P. on Dec 1, 2010 7:53 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Bravo, sir. Bravo.
/slow clap
The bastards hung me in the spring of '25. But I am still alive.
Box Seats Blog
Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Dec 1, 2010 7:55 AM EST up reply actions
I’ve updated the OFB link with this more thorough discussion of the trade.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
It seems like he’s making the exact same points.
Spend games one through four demanding that your adversary pay a punishing price. No such demand was placed upon the small Habs’ forwards of last April.Instead, Montreal built an ugly box, kept the Caps on the perimeter, got quality netminding, and effectively counter-punched.
So the solution to what the Habs did last year was to hit them more?
Mike Green has yet to be paired with so steady a defensive partner in D.C.
Here’s another shot at Jeff Schultz.
I just need to stop reading what they write. It’s gotten too infuriating.
The bastards hung me in the spring of '25. But I am still alive.
Box Seats Blog
Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Dec 1, 2010 8:24 AM EST up reply actions
If the solution was to hit the Habs more, the problem was in the forwards not doing it on the forecheck more than the defensemen not doing it in their own end.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
by J.P. on Dec 1, 2010 8:31 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
And it’s a complete non-issue. How would Scott Hannan have helped remedy that? How would he have prevented Eric Staal from scoring on Sunday?
The bastards hung me in the spring of '25. But I am still alive.
Box Seats Blog
Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Dec 1, 2010 8:37 AM EST up reply actions
In the offensive end of the rink. You know, where most of the game was played?
Yessir, I’m with you. If the Caps were more of a grindey, forechecking team they’d be tougher to play against in a 7-game series. File this one along with the observation that if I were a billionaire, I wouldn’t be at work right now.
Patron saint of quality footwear.
They were a grindey, forechecking team for most of the late 80s and 90s, and where did that get them?
Sent home packing by Pittsburgh every year, who had guys like Jagr and Lemieux and Stevens and Francis
The bastards hung me in the spring of '25. But I am still alive.
Box Seats Blog
Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Dec 1, 2010 9:20 AM EST up reply actions
Good point. The ideal, of course, would be a grindey, forechecking team with premium offensive talent, but whatever.
Patron saint of quality footwear.
But as long as they’re not “soft” or “finesse”, its okay that they lose every year.
Remind me again why being “finesse” is a bad thing?
The bastards hung me in the spring of '25. But I am still alive.
Box Seats Blog
Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Dec 1, 2010 9:26 AM EST up reply actions
Define your terms. We could have an endless argument about why “finesse” is good or bad, but we could be talking about different things. If all you are is finesse, you’ll get beaten by teams that punish. If you have no finesse, you’ll get beaten by teams that score. I’d say it’s best to be well-rounded, but that’s not a very interesting observation.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
The way that they talk over there, it seems like they want a team composed of nothing but DJ Kings.
The bastards hung me in the spring of '25. But I am still alive.
Box Seats Blog
Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Dec 1, 2010 3:39 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, I’m not trying to side with them, you know better than that. I just think there’s a happy medium somewhere and I would cringe if we ever had a team that I considered “finesse.”
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
That Pens team was loaded, though. Francis, Jagr, Lemieux, Coffey, Recchi, Mullen and Murphy are all current or future Hall of Famers. They also had Stevens when he was the premiere power forward, Tocchet (ditto), Barasso and others.
It was not that surprising that that they lost year after year to them.
Yeah but see, we were grindy, and gritty such. That should have won us every series, even against that amount of offensive talent!!
The bastards hung me in the spring of '25. But I am still alive.
Box Seats Blog
Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Dec 1, 2010 10:44 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Nope, it just makes them better at the end of the series than the beginning. It’s a means to an end, not an end in itself and I don’t think that it’s a controversial opinion that a grinding forecheck establishes possession while wearing down the opposition D.
"Essentially, all models are wrong, but some are useful" George E.P. Box
by Knee high to a duck on Dec 1, 2010 2:28 PM EST up reply actions
Ugh Tom Barasso. One of my least favourite goalies ever.
I poured spot remover on my dog. Now he's gone.
by Rather Bengt on Dec 1, 2010 10:45 AM EST up reply actions
I think it happened. If not, it’s still a pretty great story.
Barrasso was one of the least popular guys in the locker room, though. He was pretty universally loathed wherever he went.
The stories of him out and about in Pittsburgh are incredible. I couldn’t believe a guy could be such an asshole.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
He is a prize horse’s ass. I watched him THROW his driver off the tee box at a pro-am golf event after a particularly crappy tee shot. When he went to pick it up, he stepped on the shaft as he was snatching it off the ground, and bent the driver 45 degrees. He then walked down the fairway, breaking the driver into little pieces, and then THREW them on the fairway.
I was standing right next to the teebox and started laughing maniacally (an asshole move in and of itself) because I knew it would piss him off further, but I didnt care. What a maroon.
Thanks – added. Hard to stay on top of all of yesterday’s linkage…
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
GMGM also was on NHL Live yesterday about the Flash trade, our goaltenders, and Sasha’s contract status.
Nutshell: Standard statement on the trade we’ve heard, not trading for a goaltender (with a laugh), contract can’t be addressed until Jan. 1, but we’ll be aggressive to keep players we want to keep, and it will be addressed before season ends.
I know GMGM has the reputation for being “The Undertaker”, but I think he’s been quite charming in press scrums lately. I still wouldn’t trust him much, but he’s a lot of fun to listen to.
"It's always good to have vikings."
I still wouldn’t trust him much
What do you mean?
"This guy is an android. He's not human....Oh my goodness."
I understand that, but I guess the word “trust” just rankled a little. It’s one thing to be cagey and inscrutable; another to be dishonest or untrustworthy.
"This guy is an android. He's not human....Oh my goodness."
Well, GMGM will definitely allow you to draw an erroneous conclusion from a deliberately ambiguous statement.
So I don’t take things he says at 100% face value.
Which I think is what gfcf was getting at.
Patron saint of quality footwear.
Now we learn in the Post’s print edition that Sasha missed practice due to a nagging injury — trainers said he needed another day off. Hope he’s back tonight.
Rocking the Red for the Caps since 1975. Rocking the Red on additional fronts as well.
Isn’t every day you post an interview with Boyd Gordon’s girlfriend — I hear that Ms. Casy is his GF.
Rocking the Red for the Caps since 1975. Rocking the Red on additional fronts as well.
In the From the Rink article you caught the obvious one, Erskine up at the top of the list, but you also missed Mean Lars buried down there near the bottom with a pair of boarding calls.
LET'S GO CAPS!!!
Pretty hilarious definition. I personally find stick fouls to be the dirtiest, but they don’t even consider them.
In any event, the biggest problem with this whole exercise is in allowing the refs to determine the data. LOTS of dirty stuff never gets called. In fact, the dirtiest players are usually the best at not getting called.
No honorable mention for Kaleta’s attempted head butt? No mention of kicks or slew foots?
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
Coverage of the Tomas Fleischmann-for-Scott Hannan trade. [Caps365 video (McPhee), Dump ’n Chase, CSN Washington (Masisak), ESPN (Burnside/LeBrun), NHL.com (Lozo), NHL.com (Sadowski on Flash), The Hockey News (Proteau), Denver Post (Dater), WaPo (Carrera), CI (Carrera, Carrera) DCEx, Peerless, RMNB, Frankovic, WTOP Caps Blog, Houses of the Hockey, Dobber Hockey (fantasy impact), Box Seats, RtR, StC, KOL, Capitals Kremlin, Capitals News Network, Mile High Hockey, Capitals Outsider, Puckhead, SB Nation DC, OFB, PHT (and again), FtR, The Hockey Writers, NYT, PuckWorld]
Wow. I rec’d it just for the sheer mass of work it took to track down all those sources and link them.
True story: when I was finishing my basement, I put an Alex Ovechkin card behind the drywall
Double wow. I think this makes you the first Jewish carpenter since that guy from Galilee…
Patron saint of quality footwear.
by fat_daddyo on Dec 1, 2010 8:21 AM EST reply actions 3 recs
From Corey's article
Hannan said he spoke to ex-Avalanche teammate Matt Hendricks and Alex Ovechkin had sent him a text message after the trade was complete.
Just a text??!! Crosby would have called Hannan then picked him up at the airport and brought him back to Mario’s place for late-night dryer hockey.
/Milbury
Nobody has ever been deemed unhealthy for eating too much broccoli. -- Andrew Gordon at RMNB
Speaking of Milbury – did you see Engblom, Jones and Milbury debate Crosby’s slew foot (or no slew foot) on VS. last night. It’s apparent that the directors of tthose shows make Milbury take the pro-Crosby stance on any and all issues Crosby. Even my wife said “Is this guy always such a tool?”
"Quint?"........"No."
To be fair they had some reasonable points. It’s hard for the refs to call a slew foot when they have to kick a guy out of a game, and as far as slew-feet go that was relatively tame.
A slew-foot is its own penalty and carries a game misconduct with it.
And I hear you talk the talk, but I don't see you walk the walk and I still don't believe a thing you say.
Thanks. I thought it was, but am apparently today am incompetent at searching (among other things). Weird that a search for NHL rule slew-foot turned up nothing but slew-footing did.
I’ve never heard of a slew-footing penalty being called, though someone on Pensburgh showed me the penalty exists. Every “slew-foot” I’ve heard of has come with a tripping minor, if that.
My blog and Twitter, featuring coverage of the most unpredictable team in the NHL and where we defend Mike Green, Alex Ovechkin, and Alexander Semin until the bitter end. That is to say, when someone tries to call BS on the Corsi numbers.
If you don't know how to use Timeonice, read this.
"Numbers don't lie, they just don't agree with you"--George E. Ays
by red army line on Dec 1, 2010 9:28 AM EST up reply actions
Rule 52 – Slew-footing
52.1 Slew-footing – Slew-footing is the act of a player using his leg or foot
to knock or kick an opponent’s feet from under him, or pushes an
opponent’s upper body backward with an arm or elbow, and at the
same time with a forward motion of his leg, knocks or kicks the
opponent’s feet from under him, causing him to fall violently to the ice.
52.2 Match Penalty – Any player who is guilty of slew-footing shall be
assessed a match penalty.
52.3 Fines and Suspensions – There are no specified fines or
suspensions for slew-footing, however, supplementary discipline can
be applied by the Commissioner at his discretion (refer to Rule 28).
They did make good point s- they being Jones and Engblom. My problem is with Milbury saying “Crosby always plays hard…yada, yada, yada”…like no other NHLer plays hard. Engblom had a good point that the OV/Peverly slew foot was in fact a good call but it was a battle for a puck on the boards, shoulder to shoulder, where as the Crosby slew foot was in open ice and somehow Callahan got the minutes…
And I like Dubinskys remarks on the play…mentions Crosby’s reputation for these sort of things…
And I’m not slamming Crosby, he’s an MVP caliber player year in and year out but you have to call a penalty on him once in a while.
"Quint?"........"No."
They could have just given him a trip. Stuff like that happens all the time. Think about the Boulton “roughing” when he clearly instigated Erskine.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
Or when AO got a trip for his slew-foot on Peverly.
Release the Mackan!
by Killer_Carlson on Dec 1, 2010 3:55 PM EST up reply actions
Saw it and was actually shocked that they had that one peverly clip in the chamber for it. You can’t talk about one without bringing up the other, and often Alex is the one painted in a poor light.
Refs allow play to continue....
In that game, Ovi wasn’t called for a slew foot either (got a minor for tripping). It wasn’t until Darren Dreger’s tweets (and subsequent appearance on OTF that night) pushing it that it became a slew foot. And since TSN’s all lovey-dovey with Collie, you knew additional punishment would be coming.
"I would feed them lefts until I was pretty much tired of doing it." - Alan May, JRR, 10.16.2010
I’d just like to know who was tweeting what after this went completely unpunished. It was a joke Boyle got to play in the semis and beyond.
"I don't care about winning the division or winning the President's Trophy. I just care about getting to the playoffs." --GMGM
That still bothers the hell out of me. I will hate Boyle forever. I am glad he scored in his own goal in the playoffs, the moron.
Still pisses me off, too. It was such a dirty play – and intentionally so, he basically chased down Sasha because of a clean but hard hit. I used to like Boyle but not anymore.
If anyone needs me, I'll be at Kettler.
I will be in attendance Feb. 8 to hopefully witness a little payback. While a bongos encore is prolly not in the offing, some extra attention on the forecheck is a given…ahem.
"I don't care about winning the division or winning the President's Trophy. I just care about getting to the playoffs." --GMGM
Another clip they should’ve had cocked and loaded was Boyle’s slew foot on Semin in the Olympics. I wonder why they didn’t……
If I recall, I think Milbury downplayed that one too, which was a despicable slew foot.
More than that, I recall him saying something like Semin had no business throwing the hit because the game was out of reach at that point.
"I would feed them lefts until I was pretty much tired of doing it." - Alan May, JRR, 10.16.2010
Was it then that he pulled the phrase “eurotrash”, or was that a previous broadcast?
Either way, he’s still a douche.
CaptainAwesome is now PrincessPowerful
by PrincessPowerful on Dec 1, 2010 2:34 PM EST up reply actions
From Puckdaddy:
During last night’s Canada-Russia postgame, “Mad” Mike used another set of interesting words while describing the disappointing performance of the Russians in their 7-3 loss, including the tiff between Alexander Semin and Dan Boyle that ended with a slew foot. Here’s the text of the entire exchange with Milbury along with Bill Patrick and Jeremy Roenick:
MILBURY: "Disappointing. Even at the end, the chippiness at the end by Semin. Too little, too late. This was a no-show game. They were intimidated from the beginning, maybe because it was the Olympics, maybe it’s in Canada, and maybe, just maybe, it was the physical play of the Canadiadns.
I don’t blame Dan Boyle for going right after Semin on this one. Look at Semin trying to get out of the way. I know this is an illegal hit, with just under 3 minutes to go with a four goal lead, that’s not what you do, that’s not cool, that’s not what you do, that’s not how you behave JR unless there’s a personal grudge or history, I don’t blame Boyle for getting right in his face.
…
I was shocked that it was this onesided and I was really disappointed that these guys came with their, their, Eurotrash game. There was just no heart, no guts, no nothing there to back it up. I mean, Alex Ovechkin(notes) was an average player tonight. I know they’re going to bounce back, but to be that poor, and to be that intimidiated physically by the Canadians was really as shock to me."
PATRICK: “Did you really say Eurotrash. Did that come out of your mouth?”
MILBURY: “It did.”
PATRICK: “OK, just for the record.”
ROENICK: “I heard it! I heard it!”
The worst part of the debate was that Milbury started by saying that it was not a slewfoot then, a couple minutes later, he said that the top players have better privelages and maybe thats why he did not get a penalty. He just says nothing that could block Crosby’s spotlight at all.
Just rub some dirt on it
by Trailblaza05 on Dec 1, 2010 11:52 AM EST up reply actions
First credit to KHTAD for finding this
CnB has the most compelling analysis of the relative merits of the trade that I’ve seen, and I didn’t see it in the links.
http://www.coppernblue.com/2010/11/30/1847114/the-hannan-deal
Of interest, Zona noted in the comments that he doesn’t think Flash can handle top-6 minutes in the WC.
He also pegs Hannan as a top-pair guy.
I am trying to rein (reign?) in my giddiness, but oh, if it’s true, if it’s true, if it’s true….
Patron saint of quality footwear.
I am trying to rein (reign?)
Reins are for horses, reigns are for kings, while rain is what it’s doing outside.
In other words, you had it right.
And I hear you talk the talk, but I don't see you walk the walk and I still don't believe a thing you say.
To be fair to me, I called Hannan a “top four D”, not top pairing.
Editor of The Copper & Blue, and leader of The Cult Of Hartikainen.
If you look at the way most Western teams run the bench, you’ll see a bunch of “power vs. power” matchups, where the lines designated as 1st and 2nd are playing the other lines designated as 1st and 2nd. If you check out the Behind The Net stats for Colorado last season, you’ll see the top two lines had the hardest quality of competition.
Sacco did the same in the playoffs against the Sharks, Stastny’s line was out against Thornton when Sacco had the home change and Duchene was out against Pavelski.
Essentially this means Fleischmann will be playing against 1st and 2nd lines in the West for the rest of the year. I don’t have much confidence that he’s going to be able to play against lines like Ryan-Getzlaf-Perry, Blake-Koivu-Selanne, Penner-Gagner-Hemsky, Hall-Horcoff-Eberle, Sedin-Sedin-Burrows, Raymond-Kesler-Samuelsson, Marleau-Thornton-Heatley, Clowe-Pavelski-Setoguchi, Zetterberg-Datsyuk-Holmstrom, Filppula-Franzen-Bertuzzi, Stalberg-Toews-Kane, Sharp-Bolland-Hossa
You’ve watched his play in both ends for a number of seasons now – would you put him out against such competition?
Editor of The Copper & Blue, and leader of The Cult Of Hartikainen.
by Derek Zona on Dec 1, 2010 9:51 AM EST up reply actions 4 recs
I think he’ll be all right. He’s a left wing, and he’s not the complete zero defensively that some would make him out to be.
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Dec 1, 2010 10:07 AM EST up reply actions
In 07-08 he had a decently high QoC (with high QoT) and was a slightly positive Corsi. But that was a few seasons ago.
My blog and Twitter, featuring coverage of the most unpredictable team in the NHL and where we defend Mike Green, Alex Ovechkin, and Alexander Semin until the bitter end. That is to say, when someone tries to call BS on the Corsi numbers.
If you don't know how to use Timeonice, read this.
"Numbers don't lie, they just don't agree with you"--George E. Ays
by red army line on Dec 1, 2010 10:10 AM EST up reply actions
When I find myself in disagreeement with you, Gouldie, my first instinct is to think that my opinion needs further examination for flawed thinking. So take the following with a that grain of salt.
I think Flash gets eaten alive by those lines. I don’t think he’ll be effective in teh offensive zone against the sort of determined backchecking he’ll likely face, and I think he’ll be abused in the defensive zone.
He does OK with stick checks, but he can’t/won’t play the boards or the corners, and power forwards will go to the net with impunity against him.
Just my opinion, of course.
Patron saint of quality footwear.
All I really mean is that there’s a very limited amount that a left wing can hurt you. You really need to count on your center and defense for, well, defense. If Flash contributes only on offense from that position, he won’t be the only such wing in the league.
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Dec 1, 2010 2:22 PM EST up reply actions
You forgot Tootoo/Smithson/Ward, Derek.
Ahem.
by Chris Burton on Dec 1, 2010 11:25 AM EST up reply actions
If Tootoo is on your power line, you guys really are fucked.
"Essentially, all models are wrong, but some are useful" George E.P. Box
by Knee high to a duck on Dec 1, 2010 2:42 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
And that’s ignoring the other 2/3 of that “power line”.
Release the Mackan!
by Killer_Carlson on Dec 1, 2010 3:05 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Proteau's Take
But really, the Avalanche got the best player in this deal. In Fleischmann, they’re not getting a gritty two-way winger or franchise player – he was a healthy scratch for Washington twice this year – but he is still just 26 years old.
Best player? They don’t know Flash like I know Flash. I’ve noted it elsewhere, but Flash will give you 15 – 25 goals a year. IF you feed him first-unit PP time.
And that’s all he’ll give you.
The Avs can have him.
Patron saint of quality footwear.
I’m trying to figure out what one needs to smoke in order to call Flash a “gritty two-way winger” while keeping a straight face.
That being said, if Flash is going to succeed in the NHL he’s not going to find a better place to do it in than Colorado right now.
Proteau’s take is that Flash is a “better” player than Hannon and therefore the Avs won this trade. Well, Flash certainly has skills and the potential to score 25-30 in the NHL. And clearly he is in the prime of his career while Hannon is on the downside of his.
However, to claim this is a “win” for the Avs is to ignore the main reason for trades, to fill needs. I think both sides filled some respective holes with this deal. I’d argue that the need for defensive depth and experience for the Caps might be a bigger need to get them where they want to be than the Avs need for a 2/3rd line winger with consistency and playoff performance issues.
Both guys are probably rentals anyway, so its not like the Avs were able to upgrade themselves beyond this year.
Just trying to capture the spirit of the thing...
The Avs have much better potential to retain Flash than the Caps do to retain Hannan, I’d argue. Flash probably isn’t getting a raise and hey, maybe after moving midseason he’ll want to settle down for a few years. And of course the Avs have all the cap space they possibly could.
Not that that makes the trade all that much different from a win/loss perspective.
Flash got 23 last year, but it took a pretty special set of circumstances for him to achieve it, 1) He had career-best shooting pct (and not by an insignificant amount, either, 2) he got significant PP time with the league’s most effective PP and alongside some of the most lethal offensive talents in the league and 3) he got top-6 TOI on a team that scored like a house on fire.
Getting 23 under those circumstances, for a guy with Flash’s tools, is a bit like getting laid in a brothel – just kinda the way things tend to go.
So while getting 25 – 30 is not entirely out of the question, it’s only potentially possible under some very favorable circumstances, imo.
And while he’s getting (or not getting) those goals, he’s not doing any of the other things that tend to help you win a hockey game. Like cycle, forecheck, backcheck, tie up sticks, get low in the D zone, take the body, etc.
If Hannan is a viable 5/6 D, the Caps take the most value out of the trade. If he’s a legit 3/4 guy, it’s a blowout for the Caps. And if he’s a 1/2 guy (which I’m skeptical of) then it’s completely lopsided.
The Avs can have Flash.
Patron saint of quality footwear.
This trade is likely a “win” for both teams.
I think you’re underestimating the Avs’ need for healthy wingers. Just as the Caps were calling up Fahey, the Avs were calling up guys like Dave Van der Gulik and Greg Mauldin to fill in as guys went down to injury.
Flash had his issues, but he can also put the puck in the net if given enough PP TOI. Right now, the Avs are desperate for that. If he stays healthy and Sacco runs him out there with Stastny and Hejduk, he’ll likely end up with around 18-20 goals on the season.
He’ll still suck at all the other crap, just like you mentioned. I just don’t think this is quite as lopsided as it may appear, based on the relative needs of both teams.
And I hear you talk the talk, but I don't see you walk the walk and I still don't believe a thing you say.
I think maybe part of the thought on Colorado “winning” the trade is the feeling that Hannan is overpaid. GMGM’s approach is “so what?” It’s not like he’s the one who negotiated the $18 million. Caps had the cap space to accomodate the hit for 3/4 of a season and he meets a need.
"It's always good to have vikings."
This is not a simple issue. If you want to make the case that Fleischmann has more upside, fair enough. But you can’t substitute a player’s upside — performance you anticipate his having in the future — for calling him a better player in the here and now. Today, December 1st, is Tomas Fleischmann a better player at his position than Scott Hannan is at his? Fleischmann is a marginal top-six winger on a contending team (i.e., the Caps). Hannan is a top-four defenseman on that team. For what the Caps need and what they had, Hannan is a better player than Fleischmann.
The part where it is not simple is in asking yourself, ok, if Hannan is a top-four on this contending team, would he be a top-four in Philadelphia (maybe is the best I can do here, if you think him preferable to Braydon Coburn)? Would he be a top-four in Pittsburgh (ahead of Michalek?)? Montreal (Hamrlik)? Detroit (Stuart)? Chicago (Hjalmarsson)? Vancouver (Bieksa)?
If this was a pond game (or an All Star game) and you were choosing up sides, would you take Fleischmann before Hannan? I’m inclined to say “no.”
If you've read this far...seek help.
Laughable interview with Denis Potvin on XM HomeIce. Clearly, Potvin has taken too many hits to the head. Allow me to paraphrase the exchange:
Ross: So, Denis, is Hannan that missing piece that the Caps need to finally make that run for the Cup?
Potvin: Well, they had to make a move for salary cap reasons and this may be just the start. Hunwick is a fast, quick kid with a lot of potential, but clearly, with Savard coming back soon, they had to do something.
Life With Spidey -- a blog about sports, travel, work, family and fun.
Representing Caps fandom in the Gateway to the West.
Good morning Spidey. You must be quite giddy this morning.
You perhaps knew me better as "Your Nation's Capital." Same great commentary, now with 100% more transparency!
Giddy doesn’t cut it. Hard to focus. On the phone with my boss, as we speak!
Life With Spidey -- a blog about sports, travel, work, family and fun.
Representing Caps fandom in the Gateway to the West.
Potvin still can’t believe that the Caps didn’t trade their top prospects for Vokoun last season. You’ve got a better chance for snow in Miami than a good word about the Caps from Potvin.
He’s on at 7:25am, usually the same time I drive in. It’s clear he doesn’t like the Caps.
Life With Spidey -- a blog about sports, travel, work, family and fun.
Representing Caps fandom in the Gateway to the West.
With all due respect, it’s Denis Potvin.
The bastards hung me in the spring of '25. But I am still alive.
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Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Dec 1, 2010 9:18 AM EST up reply actions
Furthermore, I haven’t listened to Home Ice in months, and I don’t miss it.
It’s such a great idea in theory, but the content is so awful it’s unlistenable.
The bastards hung me in the spring of '25. But I am still alive.
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Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Dec 1, 2010 9:25 AM EST up reply actions
The best part is the preview that occurs 6pm your time, 5pm my time with Boomer. He goes through lines, scratches, injuries, strategies for every game.
Life With Spidey -- a blog about sports, travel, work, family and fun.
Representing Caps fandom in the Gateway to the West.
It’s too “sports-talky”. I wish there were some actual “personalities” on there.
The bastards hung me in the spring of '25. But I am still alive.
Box Seats Blog
Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Dec 1, 2010 9:46 AM EST up reply actions
Get me a show. You’ll love it.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
Oh my god that would be fantastic.
Don't worry about getting to your point, I'm going to live forever.
by SeattleCapsFan on Dec 1, 2010 4:37 PM EST up reply actions
Ha. You do know what time I wake up right? Especially on Saturdays.
Really my main problem with JRR is that I can never listen to it because my laptop is a POS and craps out every time I try to listen.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
Yeah, I could go download it but then I’d have to load it onto my iPod to listen because my computer still sucks. That means shuffling all sorts of stuff around my iPod every single week, or buying a new iPod (which is not going to happen right now).
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
That reminds me. I was hoping that “Capitals Central”, the pre-game show that CSN-DC is now showing, would be, y’know, an actual pregame show, with info on the upcoming game like Spidey mentions (lines, scratches, injuries, etc.). If it had to be a pre-recorded show, at least they could use that bar at the bottom to show relevant game info, instead of silly texts like “OVI8888 is GR88888T!”.
"I would feed them lefts until I was pretty much tired of doing it." - Alan May, JRR, 10.16.2010
Really? I actually really like it, Hockey This Morning is funny…and thanks to the timing of my commute I usually miss Potvin’s segments and Clement’s. I’d rather just listen to Rossi and Big Country, I find them entertaining.
Personal opinion, of course ;) And I hate listening to Potvin and Espo, they seem to really despise the Caps (that good ol’ Canadian boy mindset, I’m guessing, we don’t play the style of hockey they like) and take great pleasure in pouncing on little things.
If anyone needs me, I'll be at Kettler.
I just can’t get into anything they do. Doesn’t entertain me at all, nor does it really “challenge” me.
I guess I just get all my analysis/news from the internets and it makes what they do superfluous. And I don’t really care to listen to interviews.
The bastards hung me in the spring of '25. But I am still alive.
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Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Dec 1, 2010 10:20 AM EST up reply actions
I think the “not challenging” part may be why I like it, actually…I’m not that awake in the morning and I’m not the biggest talk radio fan in general, so if someone’s going to talk at me mindlessly I want them to at least be knowledgeable about hockey (unlike the other morning talk options around here).
The only days I don’t listen are after we lose. Then it’s music all the way.
If anyone needs me, I'll be at Kettler.
Yesterday, Potvin actually said that Callahan carries some of the blame for Crosby’s slew-foot, because he put himself in a position to be slew-footed.
Life With Spidey -- a blog about sports, travel, work, family and fun.
Representing Caps fandom in the Gateway to the West.
The brazen hussy.
You perhaps knew me better as "Your Nation's Capital." Same great commentary, now with 100% more transparency!
by EmilyB on Dec 1, 2010 10:37 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
That’s the same argument they make defending Matt Cooke on Marc Savard and all the other head-hunters who end guys’ seasons: “You have to know who is on the ice.” Blame the victim.
Someone said to me last night, in real earnestness, “You know, Perron had his head down. He should have known Thornton was coming.”
Life With Spidey -- a blog about sports, travel, work, family and fun.
Representing Caps fandom in the Gateway to the West.
I actually believe that one. That hit was on Perron more than Thornton.
I also think Kaleta was more at fault than AO for that hit that got AO tossed from the game last season.
Sometimes the victim really is asking for it.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
Can a man be a hussy?
Life With Spidey -- a blog about sports, travel, work, family and fun.
Representing Caps fandom in the Gateway to the West.
How so?
Life With Spidey -- a blog about sports, travel, work, family and fun.
Representing Caps fandom in the Gateway to the West.
000
I don’t know if he can be a hussy, but he can be a Fussey
The bastards hung me in the spring of '25. But I am still alive.
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Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Dec 1, 2010 1:31 PM EST up reply actions
I actually agree. Callahan isn’t skating at 100% back and doesn’t realize Crosby is racing him until they’re even, and by the moment right before the slew-foot Callahan has even lost shoulder position to Crosby. He was having tons of trouble keeping up, hence the interference.
My blog and Twitter, featuring coverage of the most unpredictable team in the NHL and where we defend Mike Green, Alex Ovechkin, and Alexander Semin until the bitter end. That is to say, when someone tries to call BS on the Corsi numbers.
If you don't know how to use Timeonice, read this.
"Numbers don't lie, they just don't agree with you"--George E. Ays
by red army line on Dec 1, 2010 11:01 AM EST up reply actions
There is a difference between being at fault for putting yourself in position to take an interference, and being at fault for being slew footed.
Release the Mackan!
by Killer_Carlson on Dec 1, 2010 2:46 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
When you’re trying to skate at full speed with a guy, all tangled up, except he has every advantage in body position save the foot in question? Callahan set himself up, and he shouldn’t have been in that position in the first place.
My blog and Twitter, featuring coverage of the most unpredictable team in the NHL and where we defend Mike Green, Alex Ovechkin, and Alexander Semin until the bitter end. That is to say, when someone tries to call BS on the Corsi numbers.
If you don't know how to use Timeonice, read this.
"Numbers don't lie, they just don't agree with you"--George E. Ays
by red army line on Dec 1, 2010 9:13 PM EST up reply actions
Can’t disagree more. Callahan didn’t “set himself up,” he was just in a vulnerable position.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
And I’m sure that Crosby knew that as he swung his leg forward.
Release the Mackan!
by Killer_Carlson on Dec 1, 2010 10:51 PM EST up reply actions
And you just said Callahan wasn’t skating back at 100%. Crosby came up from behind him, Callahan tried to hold him up, and Crosby gave him a slew foot. I don’t even mind the interference call on Callahan, because he did put himself in a prime penalty taking position. But that doesn’t justify the slew foot. I can’t think of a situation where a player HAS to lean into another player and kick his feet out.
Release the Mackan!
by Killer_Carlson on Dec 1, 2010 10:56 PM EST up reply actions
Is John Erskine the dirtiest player in hockey? Uh, no. [From the Rink]
That was, uh, that was something. Yes it was. For my money, when you come up with a promising idea – say, a potential way to classify dirty players by totalling up their boarding, slashing, etc penalties – and it yields ludicrous results, the best thing to do is email it to your buds, have a chuckle, and go back to the drawing board.
Patron saint of quality footwear.
I don’t think it was necessarily a poor idea for an article, but I do think the timing was poor. When the difference between the top and the bottom of the chart is two penalties, that means the analysis should be withheld until a later point in the season when there is a larger sample size to work with.
This line gets me, though:
A basic roughing penalty doesn’t really count because that can mean a lot of things…
Every penalty in the rulebook could mean “a lot of things,” even the penalties the author classifies as "dirty." How can one justify labeling an entire penalty category as dirty? That assessment should be made on a case-by-case basis. Tallying up PIMs of a certain flavor is not the way to judge a player’s malicious intent, but then again, neither are Youtube clips, so I don’t know where that leaves us.
"Do not be afraid to ask for credit, for our way of refusing is very polite."
by Laich It Or Lump It on Dec 1, 2010 9:16 AM EST up reply actions
Further to your point, many, many actions that draw a penalty spill over from one category to another. A cross check in front of the net might get called as interference or it might get called as a cross check or it might get called as roughing. Same act, different penalties.
So, yeah. The metric has some noise built into it.
I hear you about the youtube clips, and note it for future reference.
Patron saint of quality footwear.
Right. It just seems strange to pick and choose which penalties should be labeled as dirty for the sake of that analysis. For example, stick fouls are not included in the dirty penalty chart, but from Friedman’s 30 thoughts:
Did not realize Plekanec’s reputation as a stick man. One opponent: “Ask him why I’m always carved up after playing him.”
Plekanec has a reputation as a stick man, but he is nowhere to be found in the discussion (rightfully or wrongfully). It would be difficult to prove this reputation using PIM statistics anyway. A look at the penalty tracker the article linked to shows Plekanec has three slashes and one high stick. Difficult to draw any conclusions from that metric.
"Do not be afraid to ask for credit, for our way of refusing is very polite."
by Laich It Or Lump It on Dec 1, 2010 9:51 AM EST up reply actions
000
It’s the power of the ’stache
The bastards hung me in the spring of '25. But I am still alive.
Box Seats Blog
Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Dec 1, 2010 9:53 AM EST up reply actions
This picture demands incorporation of the “First I was all…and then I was all :D” meme.
"Now wait a minute. This is just purely a social call. You know, just two adults getting a stew on, man."
by The Ghost of Bebop on Dec 1, 2010 10:55 AM EST up reply actions
Wouldn’t it make more sense to look at major penalties? Minors don’t really mean bubkis.
You had me at no problem.
Slightly OT but MIcheal Buble was playing the VC last night and apparantly was doing some trash talking about the Caps. He started by saying he likes Washington except when the Caps play his Canucks (he’s from Burnaby, BC…Karl Alzner’s hometown, I believe). He asked the crowd what the Caps chant was. After hearing some “Lets go Caps” from the crowd he said, “I thought their chant was [choking sound].”
Remind me how many Cup banners are hanging in GM Place? I think Karl needs to stop by this guys house this summer and say howdy. Hopefully he’ll have a shiny Cup with him to show off.
Just trying to capture the spirit of the thing...
He might as well have screamed “Hello, Pittsburgh!!”
Life With Spidey -- a blog about sports, travel, work, family and fun.
Representing Caps fandom in the Gateway to the West.
I know the dude can sing but a Michael Buble show? I can think of other ways to spend my time…like cleaning my basement.
"Quint?"........"No."
I was going to go with “farting into a cup, then sniffing said cup.”
And I hear you talk the talk, but I don't see you walk the walk and I still don't believe a thing you say.
by D'ohboy on Dec 1, 2010 9:46 AM EST up reply actions 3 recs
The guy sung Mr. Templeton, I can’t be mad at him.
"If you don't shut the [hell] up, I'm going to kick you in the balls so hard your dentist is going to have to work around them at your next cleaning."
by Bald Pollack on Dec 1, 2010 10:16 AM EST up reply actions
Thx for the info. Were there boos afterwards?
… updating my playlist as well … :-)
What doesnt kill you makes you stronger.
by BetterOffWith28 on Dec 1, 2010 11:07 AM EST up reply actions
OK, so the Caps have two rookie defensemen. (I’m with Peerless on whether Alzner is a “rookie”). Now, they also have two 700+ game vets. The smart thing to do would be to pair each rookie with a vet, right?
So why am I convinced that the Caps will keep Carlznerson together most of the year, and that it’s exactly the right decision?
Atta dinnin stick a who!
Because they’re better together than apart.
by DrinkingPartner on Dec 1, 2010 10:01 AM EST up reply actions
Like chocolate and peanut butter!
"And then they’ll look at guys in my situation, that could play three good games in a row and have one bad shift, and they’ll say, ‘Well, that’s why he’s been in the minor leagues his whole career.'" --Matt Hendricks
Or a two lion Voltron.
"And then they’ll look at guys in my situation, that could play three good games in a row and have one bad shift, and they’ll say, ‘Well, that’s why he’s been in the minor leagues his whole career.'" --Matt Hendricks
by bigeugene on Dec 1, 2010 1:33 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
BPOTY
You, sir, have been nominated for Best Post of the Year.
Soon the Championship with be ours, all ours!
Kinda in that frame of mind also. Would like to have them do the former, but the pair’s been playing well for awhile so no need to upset the apple cart. Also wouldn’t be surprised to see some shuffling there to get Hannan a chance to play with each of those guys for a game or so.
And I’ll say it here: Your FanShot this morning is awesome and folks should go check it out for some natty-esque research.
"If you don't shut the [hell] up, I'm going to kick you in the balls so hard your dentist is going to have to work around them at your next cleaning."
by Bald Pollack on Dec 1, 2010 10:07 AM EST up reply actions
Link to said FanShot. A masterpiece.
You perhaps knew me better as "Your Nation's Capital." Same great commentary, now with 100% more transparency!
Thanks. Cheers!
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Dec 1, 2010 4:01 PM EST up reply actions
McPhee agrees with you too. On EITM today he said they wouldn’t have expected it of rookie blue-liners, but they didn’t hit their strides until they were paired.
They go together like PB&J.
John Carlson - Glory follows him.
Six Beers Too Many Fantasy Team - BizNasty's Hobo Rodeo
Like rama lama lama ka dinga da dinga dong.
I poured spot remover on my dog. Now he's gone.
by Rather Bengt on Dec 1, 2010 10:42 AM EST up reply actions
Great – now I have the entire ending sequence of Grease in my head.
/playing repeated Gogol Bordello in my ears to banish “We Go Together” entirely.
Life With Spidey -- a blog about sports, travel, work, family and fun.
Representing Caps fandom in the Gateway to the West.
Super Taranta?
Because now I can justify browsing and commenting during the work day with the argument that I am promoting my business.
by Sombrero Guy on Dec 1, 2010 12:08 PM EST up reply actions
Where are musicians that got the taste?
"Now wait a minute. This is just purely a social call. You know, just two adults getting a stew on, man."
by The Ghost of Bebop on Dec 1, 2010 12:13 PM EST up reply actions
we’re getting OT here, but I highly recommended catching a Gogol Bordello show for anybody who hasn’t. They tour the east coast pretty often
Because now I can justify browsing and commenting during the work day with the argument that I am promoting my business.
by Sombrero Guy on Dec 1, 2010 12:31 PM EST up reply actions
In considering this last night in hockey OT, I wouldn’t be surprised to see Hannan and Carlson get a longer look together. I think the matchups for opposing coaches (playing at home) are tougher, and the balance across our D pairs improves. While it’s hard to argue with 27-74’s co-development, particularly in the last dozen games, I wouldn’t mind if the rooks get split (if only temporarily) in the interest of Hannan’s integration and Bruce won’t know for certain until he mix and matches.
"I don't care about winning the division or winning the President's Trophy. I just care about getting to the playoffs." --GMGM
I agree that Bruce will probably experiment a while with pair options, just because he can. But don’t defense pairs take a long time to mature and get to know each other well? That would indicate that, to some extent, he is going to need to guess on the best pairings and give it a several-months long experiment.
It does take a while, indeed. And full disclosure: I like the rookie pair together. The question for me is whether Poti-Hannan is going to work as well.
"I don't care about winning the division or winning the President's Trophy. I just care about getting to the playoffs." --GMGM
Caps have moved up to 12th. Also features goalpost counts.
My blog and Twitter, featuring coverage of the most unpredictable team in the NHL and where we defend Mike Green, Alex Ovechkin, and Alexander Semin until the bitter end. That is to say, when someone tries to call BS on the Corsi numbers.
If you don't know how to use Timeonice, read this.
"Numbers don't lie, they just don't agree with you"--George E. Ays
I think Neil posted on Vic Ferrari’s blog that he’d be tracking scoring chances for the Caps, and everyone was like “hey, a good team! yay!” Only now, looking at Derek Zona’s scoring chances for the Panthers, they’ve been even better.
My blog and Twitter, featuring coverage of the most unpredictable team in the NHL and where we defend Mike Green, Alex Ovechkin, and Alexander Semin until the bitter end. That is to say, when someone tries to call BS on the Corsi numbers.
If you don't know how to use Timeonice, read this.
"Numbers don't lie, they just don't agree with you"--George E. Ays
by red army line on Dec 1, 2010 9:15 PM EST up reply actions
He’s the best. I wish he played here.
The bastards hung me in the spring of '25. But I am still alive.
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Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Dec 1, 2010 11:13 AM EST up reply actions
Me too. He leads the league in hits this year I read the other day,
I poured spot remover on my dog. Now he's gone.
by Rather Bengt on Dec 1, 2010 11:21 AM EST up reply actions
Seems like he leads the league in hits every year.
Poor man’s Dustin Brown?
The bastards hung me in the spring of '25. But I am still alive.
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by YvonLabresMoustache on Dec 1, 2010 11:21 AM EST up reply actions
Maybe. I think it’s a pretty big drop off though.
Then again, I love D-Brown.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
Brown draws penalties like a demon. Wouldn’t he help fix another issue this team has?
My blog and Twitter, featuring coverage of the most unpredictable team in the NHL and where we defend Mike Green, Alex Ovechkin, and Alexander Semin until the bitter end. That is to say, when someone tries to call BS on the Corsi numbers.
If you don't know how to use Timeonice, read this.
"Numbers don't lie, they just don't agree with you"--George E. Ays
by red army line on Dec 1, 2010 9:17 PM EST up reply actions
Clutterbuck is a poor man’s DB in the same way DB is a poor man’s AO.
Release the Mackan!
by Killer_Carlson on Dec 1, 2010 11:03 PM EST up reply actions
Per Vogs:
Semyon Varlamov is 1st goalie off for #Caps today.
What happened to platooning the goalies?
"I would feed them lefts until I was pretty much tired of doing it." - Alan May, JRR, 10.16.2010
Go with hot hand and/or ensure 30 is completely healthy,
This means Neuvy almost certainly plays Thursday.
Life With Spidey -- a blog about sports, travel, work, family and fun.
Representing Caps fandom in the Gateway to the West.
Which probably means Varly Saturday against Atlanta, which I have no problem with.
The bastards hung me in the spring of '25. But I am still alive.
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Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Dec 1, 2010 11:36 AM EST up reply actions
I think Neuvy’s still nursing his injury to some degree.
by mechanicsville on Dec 1, 2010 11:36 AM EST up reply actions
Adductor.
And I hear you talk the talk, but I don't see you walk the walk and I still don't believe a thing you say.
Did they really?
The bastards hung me in the spring of '25. But I am still alive.
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Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Dec 1, 2010 11:42 AM EST up reply actions
Yeah, they did. Tons of injuries up front.
by Chris Burton on Dec 1, 2010 11:43 AM EST up reply actions
From the Dept. of You Could See That One Coming From a Mile Away.
Congratulations, Delly! Rejoined with his billet-mate Pietrangelo.
He’s actually been a real asset in Peoria. Scored a game-winner just two nights ago.
His junior team the Colts graduated just about all of the studs from last year’s team. This time last year the Colts had 22 wins. This time this year they have … four.
You perhaps knew me better as "Your Nation's Capital." Same great commentary, now with 100% more transparency!
by EmilyB on Dec 1, 2010 12:31 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Oh that wacky Eklund!!
(from November 29)
Dmitry added it may be a forward who was recently a healthy scratch leading many to speculate the name to be Fleischman.
So after some digging…a lot of smoke and fire to this.
Rumors swirled about the Kings of course…I heard Green’s name mentioned…but the Kings wouldn’t take Fleischman for Green…who is a very important player as far as team leaders go..
As we have been saying for a while, the Caps want a big-time defenseman and know it would take more than Fleischman to get the return they need and are willing to wait until the deadline to get it done..(Possibly Souray, who is on loan to Hershey, the Caps farm team. But why pay Souray’s year salary when you are in the playoffs and you need him then.
My sources tell me much of this may be preliminary talk regarding the Kings MAIN target, Alexander Semin. It is not uncommon for teams to explore smaller trades while discussing larger ones…This almost happened last year in the Phaneuf deal..
I have not heard Bieksa and the Caps in my conversations since the summer.
I still believe we will see either Bieksa or Salo sent to Montreal eventually .
The bastards hung me in the spring of '25. But I am still alive.
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by YvonLabresMoustache on Dec 1, 2010 11:46 AM EST reply actions
I think he means Matt Greene, but he’s just not very smart.
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Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Dec 1, 2010 11:50 AM EST up reply actions
I would oppose any such deal for solely because Joe B. would say “No relation to…” about 50 times per broadcast.
"Now wait a minute. This is just purely a social call. You know, just two adults getting a stew on, man."
by The Ghost of Bebop on Dec 1, 2010 11:53 AM EST up reply actions
Wow, grammatical fail.
"Now wait a minute. This is just purely a social call. You know, just two adults getting a stew on, man."
by The Ghost of Bebop on Dec 1, 2010 11:53 AM EST up reply actions
I’m still not sure if Brendan Morrison is related to Shaone Morrison, if Jeff Schultz is related to Nick Schultz, or if Alexandre Giroux is related to Claude Giroux. Perhaps Joe B could shed some light on the subject.
"Do not be afraid to ask for credit, for our way of refusing is very polite."
by Laich It Or Lump It on Dec 1, 2010 12:38 PM EST up reply actions
I’m not entirely clear is Andrew and Boyd Gordon are related or not, either.
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The only time I ever really needed his help on that was on the Boychuks, Johnny and Zack. That’s not exactly a common name and I always assumed they were related. He cleared it up and I am forever in his debt for that – otherwise I would have had to look it up, ugh.
So thanks, Joe B.! The more you know…
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Little known fact- Boyd Gordon is married to Dustin Brown and their son is Dustin Boyd.
I poured spot remover on my dog. Now he's gone.
by Rather Bengt on Dec 1, 2010 12:50 PM EST up reply actions
I thought he married Patrick Kane, and their son is Boyd Kane?
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by YvonLabresMoustache on Dec 1, 2010 12:51 PM EST up reply actions
Pfft, who says he has to be married to either? You guys are so old-fashioned, let the man spread it around a bit. Who was that guy on the Jets who had like eleventy billion kids with eleventy billion women?
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Boyd Gordon can knock you up just by looking at you.
John Carlson - Glory follows him.
Six Beers Too Many Fantasy Team - BizNasty's Hobo Rodeo
…crap. And here I thought that nausea I’d been having was just stomach flu.
If anyone needs me, I'll be at Kettler.
I thought he married Tomas Flieschmann and their son is Flash Gordon?
"Now wait a minute. This is just purely a social call. You know, just two adults getting a stew on, man."
by The Ghost of Bebop on Dec 1, 2010 12:56 PM EST up reply actions
He can never remove his ruby glasses…
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Dec 1, 2010 4:15 PM EST up reply actions
Antonio Cromartie. I had to rewatch that part many times on Hard Knocks to figure out how many kids he had. He didn’t even seem to know himself. Weren’t like 5 of the kids the same age?
Yup. It was actually pretty gross, I’m glad Boyd’s not like that…
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I seriously thought you were talking about the Winnipeg Jets.
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Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Dec 1, 2010 1:57 PM EST up reply actions
I think I read somewhere that the Jets had to give him an advance on his salary after he was traded to them in the off-season so he could pay some of his child support bills and leave California. Crazy guy. Even more crazy is he actually married one of these woman that had a baby. I don’t know how he picked just one to marry.
“I wonder if this Homer Nixon is any relation?”
“Unlikely, sir. They spell and pronounce their names differently”.
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Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Dec 1, 2010 12:41 PM EST up reply actions
i've got a bad feeling about this one tonight
Coming off a long stretch without a game, playing against a pissed off team that’s excellent at home, playing against Jaroslav Halak… I fear that the Caps might come out sleepy and not be able to recover. As we’ve all seen before, it doesn’t take an offensively strong team to put up goals on the Caps
If there was a game I was unsure we could win, it’s this one…
Hope I’m wrong. Go Caps!
Also coming off a trade in which a longtime teammate was dealt away… yeah, they might come out flat. See 6-3 loss to Carolina after the Chris Clark/Jurcina trade last year.
There’s no overhanging Captain issue this time, though. Clark was much more important to that team than Flash was to this one.
by DrinkingPartner on Dec 1, 2010 12:10 PM EST up reply actions
huge difference in timing, though. Clark and Juice were traded a just a couple hours before the puck drop.
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I know what you mean but on the other hand, Blues are giving both SDR and Scatchard sweaters tonight.
Cam Janssen had a throw down last night with John Scott of Chicago, so the Janssen/King meet up probably won’t take place.
"I would feed them lefts until I was pretty much tired of doing it." - Alan May, JRR, 10.16.2010
Oh, most surely it will. Janssen is in phenomenal (fighting) shape. I would be stunned if they didn’t go if both are in the lineup. I’m more worried about DJ holding up his end. His Caps fights (except the Thornton preseason one) have looked nothing like his scraps from prior years. He looks too jazzed up, gets winded, and ends up taking some solid pops.
Maybe Alzner will fight. After practice last weekend, he was getting instruction from King on where to grab a sweater during a fight.
(Yes, I know about the avatar hounding - just pretend mine is invisible.)
I hope DJ beats the ugly off of Janssen’s face for what he did to Bradley last season. Then just keeps digging and gets rid of all the pretty, too.
"Essentially, all models are wrong, but some are useful" George E.P. Box
by Knee high to a duck on Dec 1, 2010 2:54 PM EST up reply actions
Janssen and King, etc.
Sorry if this article was already posted, I didn’t see it…
Janssen, King ponder possibility of fighting
Janssen’s twitter, too bad, nothing new added related to King’s return…here are the comments from the time of the trade…
July 28: CamJanssen55
“I want to personally wish my good buddy DJ King the best of luck in #Capitals. A great fighter and an even better guy!”
“Hey DJ, BTW… Wed, Dec 1 #Caps at #Blues….its ON!”
Fun fact: Cam Janssen scored his first NHL goal against the Caps while a member of the Devils…after coming out of the penalty box (and related to yesterday’s news – Fleischmann scored his first NHL goal in the same game in NJ, also upon exiting the penalty box; I wish Fleischmann well in Colorado!)
I think we come out on top simply because the Blues lost 7-5 last night in Chicago. If Halak stands on his head then so be it, but the fresh legs should help.
Agreed. The Blues fought back from 5-1 in that game, which looked like it took a lot out of them. Plus they just got home early this morning, probably didn’t practice (or practice hard). We are really well rested, I think we come out on top.
And I’m not worried about the Clark effect. Clarkie was much loved by fans and teammates and was Captain. Flash, not so much. There is also a day to digest the news.
Looking forward to Hannan play tonight. They always say they may not play right away, but always do.
How do you know how Fleischmann’s teammates felt about him/feel about the trade? From all reports, he was well-liked, brought humor to the locker room, etc., plus he won a championship in Hershey with some of these guys. I don’t think it will impact this game, because I don’t think this came out of nowhere like the Clark trade and the timing as you point out, but I think there are some comments in that post that aren’t supported by facts.
I will miss Flash’s between-periods interviews. I will admit that half the time, I couldn’t understand a word of what he was saying but he was often in great spirits and had a great smile.
I poured spot remover on my dog. Now he's gone.
Now you’re makiing me feel bad for hating on the guy so regularly…
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It’s not like he died. And he can still be a great guy in great spirits…in Colorado. There, feel better?
"And then they’ll look at guys in my situation, that could play three good games in a row and have one bad shift, and they’ll say, ‘Well, that’s why he’s been in the minor leagues his whole career.'" --Matt Hendricks
Flash’s interviews always reminded me of this family guy character
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rRrK2XERXOs#t=0m11s
All joking aside, Flash seemed like a great guy, and I wish him well.
Because now I can justify browsing and commenting during the work day with the argument that I am promoting my business.
I didn’t mean to say his teammates didn’t like him a lot or he wasn’t a good team mate. But he wasn’t captain. That’s all I meant.
I suddenly have this weird feeling that Ovi’s going to have a big night in the goal-scoring department. I don’t know why but it’s there. He’s looked really good the last few games, the passing’s there, the shooting’s just off……..
As usual, I’m either going to look very wise or completely moronic when this game is over. So just another day for me, really.
If anyone needs me, I'll be at Kettler.
The most important question – Are you doing the recap?
The Artist Formerly Known as CP2Devil.
Links guy at Five For Howling.
Are you doing the ones for the the Saturday and Monday games at the VC— because I will be visiting DC this weekend to see them and I will be really ticked if i just wasted all this money ;)
I poured spot remover on my dog. Now he's gone.
by Rather Bengt on Dec 1, 2010 12:49 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
So mean, RB. SO MEAN.
…and no, I don’t think so. At least not Saturday, we haven’t planned out Monday’s yet.
If anyone needs me, I'll be at Kettler.
Offers you a hug and a pat on the hood of the Potimobile.
I poured spot remover on my dog. Now he's gone.
you’re never going to be able to look at Tom Poti the same way again
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Yeah I was successful as a Poti clearing attempt there.
I poured spot remover on my dog. Now he's gone.
Hey Becca,
Will you be going to either the Saturday or Monday games? I can meet you and you cn smack me really hard ;)
I poured spot remover on my dog. Now he's gone.
Should we read anything into “smack me hard”?
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Representing Caps fandom in the Gateway to the West.
Darn.
Life With Spidey -- a blog about sports, travel, work, family and fun.
Representing Caps fandom in the Gateway to the West.
Do not. Repeat, do not burst my bubble.
Last year, Caps lost in a shootout. I need a victory this year. It’s usually my only chance to see them live.
Life With Spidey -- a blog about sports, travel, work, family and fun.
Representing Caps fandom in the Gateway to the West.
One thing I remember most of that STL game last year besides the Cam Janssen incident was Theo making that great glove save while laying down on the ice.
I poured spot remover on my dog. Now he's gone.
what I remember? Wondering when I’d get my damn cable back. Stupid snowstorm.
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I’m still amazed the Caps are visiting St. Louis twice in 2010.
That game (2/13) was the last game for the two teams before the Olympics
Caps fans
What are your thoughts on the Hanahan trade?
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"This team loves to lose in the fourth quarter" - Phil Jackson
Hi Marisa. Scott Hannan will be a good 2nd-3rd pairing D-man for us. Steady and unflashy and helps our D-man depth chart. He fills a need for us. Fleischmann was someone we didn’t really need here as he didn’t take the body and he didn’t utilize his offensive skill to full potential. That said he fills a need for the Avs who are depleted with injuries right now and need guys to play wing.
I poured spot remover on my dog. Now he's gone.
by Rather Bengt on Dec 1, 2010 12:17 PM EST up reply actions
000
I’d be more happy if we got Hanrahan
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by YvonLabresMoustache on Dec 1, 2010 12:21 PM EST up reply actions
I was hoping
for Houlihan, myself.
If wishes were horses, we'd all be eating steak.
by Hang a Laingtern on Your Problems on Dec 1, 2010 12:47 PM EST up reply actions
Pssh. Sally Kellerman was a million times better as Hot Lips.
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by YvonLabresMoustache on Dec 1, 2010 12:50 PM EST up reply actions
Initially, very pleased, but I was pleased about Corvo, too, so we’ll wait to see how it plays out on the ice.
Patron saint of quality footwear.
I expect the Caps will get more than a 50% effort level out of Hannan.
"And then they’ll look at guys in my situation, that could play three good games in a row and have one bad shift, and they’ll say, ‘Well, that’s why he’s been in the minor leagues his whole career.'" --Matt Hendricks
Yep. I am glad that Hannan had to waive a NMC clause – seems to demonstrate he wanted to come here, unlike Corvo.
Corvo also agreed to be traded and waived a NTC to come to DC. He was enthusiastic about the move, or pretended to be, at first.
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Carolina had been out of the playoff race since, what, November?
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The 1000+ comments here, here, here, and here should sum it up pretty nicely.
"Do not be afraid to ask for credit, for our way of refusing is very polite."
by Laich It Or Lump It on Dec 1, 2010 12:46 PM EST up reply actions
considering we got Greene with him for Roger Laing, I think we did fine in that deal.
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by bilspacecadet on Dec 1, 2010 1:24 PM EST up reply actions
Well Flash’s GVT last year was more than 4 times larger than Hannan’s, so the Caps clearly got ripped off.
Release the Mackan!
by Killer_Carlson on Dec 1, 2010 3:00 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Thin Air
Has anyone thought about what kind of endurance Hannan will have when he get here? He’s spent the past few years living in thinner air and training in thinner air, so he probably has more stamina than most players on the Caps. When you practice for years at 5000 feet of altitude and then play near or at sea level, it’s like playing in an oxygen tank.
Of course, I also wonder how the thin air will affect Flash’s blood clot issue…
Washington Capitals 2009-10 = Quebec Nordiques 1994-95
--- D'ohboy
by MikeL-Pivonka on Dec 1, 2010 1:29 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Correct me if I’m wrong, but I think the blood clot issue was a fluke thing that shouldn’t be a recurring problem.
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Fluke. If it was chronic he wouldn’t be allowed to play hockey ever again.
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and Flash now has the money to fly first class. no more cramped, clot-inducing coach seats for him!
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At what he was making then (wasn’t it around $725K?), he could afford to fly first class. He might have, too, we don’t know. But if he didn’t get up and move around, it doesn’t matter where he was sitting.
"It's always good to have vikings."
I remember him joking about how he was going to fly first class from now on. or at least i think that’s what he was trying to say.
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So just cheap, then?
I can’t afford to do it, but one round trip a year on that income is completely do-able, and if players aren’t doing it, they should. On an AHL income, not so much.
"It's always good to have vikings."
The high altitude advantage is very short term. Within weeks his body will adjust and it won’t matter anymore. Maybe for the first couple games he feels different, but how could you tell the difference between the high-altitude training and adrenaline?
I don’t think it’ll be a big difference. If it was you’d see teams from Denver routinely putting up great road records.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
sigh
It’s like the Summer of Death, only cold. People are dropping all over the place.
There's always more to learn about Hockey.
Spidey, bad news. Hannan isn’t playing tonight:
Newly-acquired defenseman Scott Hannan won’t play tonight and will instead watch the game up in the booth with assistant coach for video Blaine Forsythe and take in the Capitals’ systems and style of play from the way they kill penalties to movements through the neutral zone. Coach Bruce Boudreau said he expects Hannan to play Thursday night in Dallas.
“We do things a little bit different, system wise and we play tomorrow night — I’d like him to watch a game and see how it is,” Boudreau said. “It’s out of respect too for a couple of our guys who have played every game for us. Don’t want to let them think that they’re all of a sudden being cast aside because we got another defenseman.”
aka, this is Bog John’s last hurrah.
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Is he at least going to take the pregame skate?
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by YvonLabresMoustache on Dec 1, 2010 1:47 PM EST up reply actions
I’ll get photos if he does, but certainly a disappointment overall.
Maybe this means an Erskine-SDR bout?
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Hendricks a much more likely dance partner.
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SDR vs RAHJC: 2010 World Juniors Grudge Match!!
"I would feed them lefts until I was pretty much tired of doing it." - Alan May, JRR, 10.16.2010
Meh…that’s a little extreme. Certainly fighting for playing time but with Poti and Green both recovering from something or another I still expect to see Erskine getting a ton of sweaters.
And I’d hope so. They should ride out this hot streak and use the opportunity to rest Poti and Green and get them 100%.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
He’s 30 and this is his 3rd organization. Pretty sure he knows his role by now.
"If you don't shut the [hell] up, I'm going to kick you in the balls so hard your dentist is going to have to work around them at your next cleaning."
I’m sure he’s resigned to being the 7th man
But how long is left in his contract? is it a contract year for him? If so I can see him looking to sign somewhere where he won’t be on the shelf every other night.
Last year of his deal.
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by YvonLabresMoustache on Dec 1, 2010 2:06 PM EST up reply actions
your best friend for contract related questions
http://capgeek.com/charts.php?Team=30
And Erskine is int he final year of his current deal.
Because now I can justify browsing and commenting during the work day with the argument that I am promoting my business.
What version? Also you might need to adjust your security settings?
But I definitely recommend adblocker and flashblock (and again I thank my friend YLM for pointing them out to me).
Patron saint of quality footwear.
That’s a cool site
How do rookie contracts work? Who decides how long they can be and how much they’re worth?
Gotcha.
http://www.nhl.com/ice/page.htm?id=26366
So Marjo @ 900,000 a year for three years is maxed out in length and amount for a contract
But what determines the amount? When you draft someone doesn’t that person technically have to play for your squad, so what’s the incentive to pay them the max?
So they actually sign? You have two years to sign your draft picks.
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But if they don’t sign, do they have to wait 2 years to sign with another team?
If so, then it seems like your incentive to pay more would be for players you would suspect would go to another paying league like the KHL
If you don’t sign, you go back into the draft. If you don’t get drafted or don’t sign again, you become a free agent.
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The incentives are all with the player to sign as soon as possible. First, the earlier you sign, the earlier you can start working your way through the ELC years, the end of which gives you your first chance to make big(ger) money; ditto with the RFA years.
Second, if you don’t sign, you risk getting tagged with the “makeup problems” label, which unless you are a 24K gold level, premium talent, is a killer. So the guys that are going to battle for a spot in the NHL have a lot to lose if they don’t sign (assuming they don’t go to college).
The premium talents, who probably would get taken as high or higher in a redraft in spite of a refusal to sign, have their compensation basically slotted by the CBA, if I recall correctly. They can’t really hold out for more money, because they can’t get it. And the faster they sign the faster that ELC starts to burn away, as pointed out above.
That’s why they basically all sign meekly and start their careers. The League is holding all the cards, basically.
Patron saint of quality footwear.
So I wonder if Marjo’s 900K was based on us wanted to him signed and training ASAP or MarJo’s agent thinking he was worth that much
Both, I would assume. The Caps wanted him to sign, and he had another option (continue in the SEL) should a deal not get done. But the big money is in the NHL, if he doesn’t sign he potentially wastes a year of development.
Add it all up, and it came out to a max rookie contract offer, which he took.
Patron saint of quality footwear.
Took him a while to take that contract, BTW. The Caps had been trying to sign him for a while. He said he still hadn’t decided when he came to DC for the first time in May. The Caps had him and his girlfriend and family spend the weekend with Nicky Töurguideström, and he finally agreed to sign, which he did that Monday.
You perhaps knew me better as "Your Nation's Capital." Same great commentary, now with 100% more transparency!
I can imagine that it must be very intimidating to leave your country and move across the world. Thank you Nicky for being such a good host, mentor, and buddy to Marcus.
and Marcus speaks flawless English. Imagine being some kid from Podunk, Siberia. I’d be terrified to make the jump.
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Does he have performance bonuses built in? I don’t think so, or they’d show up as such on Capgeek, I’d guess.
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"Numbers don't lie, they just don't agree with you"--George E. Ays
by red army line on Dec 1, 2010 9:25 PM EST up reply actions
You’re being a smartass, right?
"And then they’ll look at guys in my situation, that could play three good games in a row and have one bad shift, and they’ll say, ‘Well, that’s why he’s been in the minor leagues his whole career.'" --Matt Hendricks
No
Looking the the CBA and I don’t understand what the incentive would be to pay one rookie higher than another
Then again I’m not seeing anything about the rules about what a rookie’s options are when they’re drafted. I always thought that you HAD to play for the team that drafted you unless you your team decided to trade you or you threw a hissy fit like Lindros
See Wheeler, Blake.
And I hear you talk the talk, but I don't see you walk the walk and I still don't believe a thing you say.
Never signed with Phoenix. Eventually signed with Boston.
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by YvonLabresMoustache on Dec 1, 2010 3:00 PM EST up reply actions
I wouldn’t say Lindros “threw a hissy fit”. He told Quebec “don’t draft me” ala John Elway and the Colts.
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by YvonLabresMoustache on Dec 1, 2010 2:48 PM EST up reply actions
And I think it worked out OK for the Nords.
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by YvonLabresMoustache on Dec 1, 2010 2:48 PM EST up reply actions
The biggest draft hissy fit I can recall was Eli Manning getting drafted by the Chargers. He said he wouldn’t play for the Chargers and they worked out a deal to draft & trade him
LET'S GO CAPS!!!
How is that a “hissy fit”? He didn’t want to play there.
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by YvonLabresMoustache on Dec 1, 2010 2:54 PM EST up reply actions
It’s a hissy fit while all other top drafted players go to the Lions and pretend they like it (Matt Stafford) or go to the Rams (Sam Bradford) and do well. Basically Eli Manning thinks he is above the rules that apply to everyone else because he’s a Manning.
So he should have no right to decide where he wants to go if he doesn’t like the situation?
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by YvonLabresMoustache on Dec 1, 2010 3:01 PM EST up reply actions
In fact, why don’t sports leagues just scrap the draft altogether and have one massive free-agency fest?
"Essentially, all models are wrong, but some are useful" George E.P. Box
by Knee high to a duck on Dec 1, 2010 3:05 PM EST up reply actions
San Diego didn’t have to draft him.
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by YvonLabresMoustache on Dec 1, 2010 3:07 PM EST up reply actions
But as the top rated player in his position in the draft and presumably with the team’s scouts thinking he’d fit in their system, why wouldn’t they want to draft him.
LET'S GO CAPS!!!
They already had Drew Brees, whom they proceeded to low ball the next year and run out of town.
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by YvonLabresMoustache on Dec 1, 2010 3:21 PM EST up reply actions
well considering he got injured badly in this throwing arm/shoulder in the last game of the season, I can see why the contract they offered had most of the money in performance bonuses.
Getting a highly touted rookie that could step in if Brees hadn’t been able to come back is still a good precaution
LET'S GO CAPS!!!
Like Philip Rivers
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by YvonLabresMoustache on Dec 1, 2010 3:33 PM EST up reply actions
Or maybe even just drafting the best QB to come from that draft. Ben Roethlisberger.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
by Rob Parker on Dec 1, 2010 5:31 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
They didn’t, but that’s not the implied, nor the important, question. You’re asking if he should have control over where he’s going, which means that he can side-step the draft in some sense.
Whether or not San Diego had to draft him is immaterial. He basically said, “Okay, I’m entering the NFL entry draft like everyone else, but I’m not going to play here. You, that team with the 1st pick? Fuck off, I’ll play where I want to.” Which is counter to how the rules work for every other player. He could have simply declined to contract, but that’s one step away from free-agency straight out of college.
I wouldn’t be totally opposed to seeing how that worked out for a few years, but everyone should be playing by the same rules if you’re going to have a league.
"Essentially, all models are wrong, but some are useful" George E.P. Box
by Knee high to a duck on Dec 1, 2010 3:15 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
000
The same rules don’t apply to everyone.
That being said, if he had opted not to play there and SD hadn’t dealt him for Rivers, he still would have faced consequences.
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Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Dec 1, 2010 3:24 PM EST up reply actions
Wouldn’t that basically work if all the prime entry level talent one year decided to screw the draft.
If you think about it, the rookies getting drafted have all the power if they decide to band together.
Fairly sure the CBA will have stipulated that the only labor organization permissibly organized with be th NHLPA.
And the high end guys are going to get what is, by any stretch, pretty damned good money. So why would they rock the boat? The grunts are all essentially replaceable by existing players or next year’s draft class, so why would they piss where they (want to) eat?
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So if a player gets drafted by a team that they REALLY don’t want to play for, the best thing for them to do is suck it up but negotiate a 1 year deal?
It’s either that, or sit out. Or go play in Europe.
The bastards hung me in the spring of '25. But I am still alive.
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Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Dec 1, 2010 3:24 PM EST up reply actions
So they can be a free agent coming in getting paid what they want if theyve paid professionally somewher else then?
And to sum up, the rookies dont HAVE to sign with the drafting team, but their biggest incentive to is to not get shunned by the NHL
Well, “shunning” would be some sort of form of collusion, which is illegal.
It actually works out for both parties. You get a guy with worth that you can flip easily (see what Quebec got for Lindros), and the guy gets out of there.
The bastards hung me in the spring of '25. But I am still alive.
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Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Dec 1, 2010 3:28 PM EST up reply actions
what was his problem with quebec in the first place?
Did he just hate their team or the city or frenchies in general?
There was a whole doc on NHLNetwork about it. Boiled down to a cultural thing, and how tiny the market in Quebec was (I think the only North American market smaller is Green Bay).
Further, he came thisclose to going to the Rangers. Had to go to an arbitrator, and he picked the Flyers.
The bastards hung me in the spring of '25. But I am still alive.
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Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Dec 1, 2010 3:35 PM EST up reply actions
Here’s the Flyers deal:
They received in the trade eventual Hart Trophy winner Peter Forsberg, as well as Ron Hextall, Chris Simon, Mike Ricci, Kerry Huffman, Steve Duchesne, a 1st round selection (Jocelyn Thibault) in 1993, a 1st round selection (later traded to the Toronto Maple Leafs, later traded to the Washington Capitals—Nolan Baumgartner) in 1994, and $15,000,000 cash
Here’s the Rangers deal
The trade between the Nordiques and the Rangers that was ruled invalid by the arbitrator had Lindros being traded for Doug Weight, Tony Amonte, Alexei Kovalev, John Vanbiesbrouck, three first round draft picks (1993, 1994 & 1995) and $12 million.
The bastards hung me in the spring of '25. But I am still alive.
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Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Dec 1, 2010 3:37 PM EST up reply actions
No Quebec traded Lindros’s rights to Philly. They drafted him in 1991 but..
In 1992, the Nordiques worked out trades for him with both the New York Rangers, and Philadelphia Flyers. Eventually an arbitrator, Larry Bertuzzi (granduncle of Todd Bertuzzi),4 ruled in favour of the Flyers, for whom Lindros played from 1992 to 2000, most of the time as the team’s captain.5
Many consider this trade a key reason that the Colorado Avalanche (the new name of the Nordiques after they relocated before the 1995 season), went on to be an NHL powerhouse. They received in the trade eventual Hart Trophy winner Peter Forsberg, as well as Ron Hextall, Chris Simon, Mike Ricci, Kerry Huffman, Steve Duchesne, a 1st round selection (Jocelyn Thibault) in 1993, a 1st round selection (later traded to the Toronto Maple Leafs, later traded to the Washington Capitals—Nolan Baumgartner) in 1994, and $15,000,000 cash. Since the trade, the Avalanche have won eight division titles and two Stanley Cup championships, due in part to the play of Forsberg, and the later addition of Patrick Roy, whom the Avalanche received in a later package deal that included Thibault.6
The trade between the Nordiques and the Rangers that was ruled invalid by the arbitrator had Lindros being traded for Doug Weight, Tony Amonte, Alexei Kovalev, John Vanbiesbrouck, three first round draft picks (1993, 1994 & 1995) and $12 million.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_Lindros
Because now I can justify browsing and commenting during the work day with the argument that I am promoting my business.
It’s going OT here, but I don’t remember it clearly enough. I doubt he cared so much as his father cared.
"It's always good to have vikings."
Have you read anything about AJ Smith? I wouldn’t want to play for the Chargers either.
The bastards hung me in the spring of '25. But I am still alive.
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Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Dec 1, 2010 3:03 PM EST up reply actions
Eh, AJ Smith is only a hard guy to play for if you or your agent is the “playing games” type or think you’re worth more than what the market value is. Guys who produce and have agents willing to bargain get deals done.
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Yeah, I mean, it’s not like he had any problems with Antonio Gates, or Vincent Jackson, or Drew Brees, or Michael Turner or anybody like that….
The bastards hung me in the spring of '25. But I am still alive.
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Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Dec 1, 2010 3:25 PM EST up reply actions
VJ is an idiot who thinks he’s Jerry Rice. Brees hurt shoulder and the Saints are pretty lucky he did make a full recovery. Turner was expendable, LT was thought of as good at the time. Sure, maybe Gates’ previous contract, but his last extension was done easy, I think.
AJ Smith is pretty much GMGM wearing Hawaiian shirts.
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In the NFL, the ONLY time a player has any bargaining leverage is before they sign their deal. Once they’ve signed, they are basically chattel and basically disposable at the whim of the club.
I have zero issues with an NFL player using whatever negotiating leverage they might have prior to signing a contract. It just happens that Eli Manning had a bit more leverage than the ordinary guy.
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Players with established contracts can hold out for bigger ones, a la Chris Johnson this season, right?
"Essentially, all models are wrong, but some are useful" George E.P. Box
by Knee high to a duck on Dec 1, 2010 3:16 PM EST up reply actions
or like Darelle Revis. It’s not usually very successful, although it worked for Revis. Ochocinco wanted to be traded from Cincinnati a few years back but that got him nowhere. Revis has had an hamstring injury on and off all season probably due to holding out and not being in top shape. He probably lost some money from ads because he’s not a top corner with the injury.
The Redskins offered 2 First round picks for Chad Johnson… and CIN turned it down. One of the most hilarious trade offers ever, and one in which both teams were completely incompetent. Redskins dodged a bullet on that one.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
It shows how messed up the entire system is when guys out of college are getting 50 million guaranteed without ever having played a game.
And then when you complain about it, you get excoriated in the press.
The bastards hung me in the spring of '25. But I am still alive.
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Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Dec 1, 2010 3:26 PM EST up reply actions
Oh you mean about the site? naaaa not being a smart ass
it’s cool. Gives you an easy way to see what’s coming up in the future
Yeah, was talking about the site. Your post made it seem like you’d not seen it before and I was thinking you had to have. Eh, internet miscommunication or something.
"And then they’ll look at guys in my situation, that could play three good games in a row and have one bad shift, and they’ll say, ‘Well, that’s why he’s been in the minor leagues his whole career.'" --Matt Hendricks
Don’t want to let them think that they’re all of a sudden being cast aside because we got another defenseman.
How else could they possibly think, and isn’t this the reality?
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Feelings….nothing more than….feelings…..
"And then they’ll look at guys in my situation, that could play three good games in a row and have one bad shift, and they’ll say, ‘Well, that’s why he’s been in the minor leagues his whole career.'" --Matt Hendricks
it’s Bruce, you know how he is. He’s always a little overly concerned about his players emotions.
Pledge Drive 2010-2011: SO KIDS CAN!! Help build a playground
Seems like good management to me. You’re sending a positive signal to players you may still need to rely on this year, without really insulting anyone else.
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Dec 1, 2010 4:30 PM EST up reply actions
I agree, but I’m not sure I’ve ever seen a coach who seems so close to his players. And I believe it genuine, that he really really really does view a lots of these younger guys as his kids. It’s endearing. (it’s maddening at times) He’s spent years developing some of these guys, getting them through the AHL, seeing them go to the NHL, coming along with them……there must be a “we’re in this together” feeling.
or maybe I’m just projecting, who knows.
Pledge Drive 2010-2011: SO KIDS CAN!! Help build a playground
I agree that is a weird statement. Of course they are supplanted by the new arrival, who is a better player. Making the better player sit in the press box for the first game is going to change that? I was surprised at the statement and I am surprised that Hannan is not playing. He hasn’t played since Saturday, had all day yesterday to travel from Denver to St. Louis, and could have looked at video of the powerplay or whatever yesterday and today.
As I mentioned elsewhere, the weird part., unless they rest one of Poti or Green for the second of the back to backs with travel, is that they will end up sitting Erskine for the first time this season against Dallas. Erskine drafted by Dallas and played his first NHL games for Dallas.
Interesting AHL player ranking list. Anyone know anything about this “Mark Dekanich” character? Seems like a pretty smart guy. I’ll also note that First Round Pick Chet Pickard is in the same organization, same position, and yet not on the list of best AHL players. What’s going on, Burton?
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
by Rob Parker on Dec 1, 2010 4:01 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
Chet Pickard, until a few days ago, had lost 16 straight decisions and was demoted to the ECHL about halfway through that streak. It’s basically all in his head, because he looks great in practice. You can check that out here if you want to.
But Dekanich has been spectacular. He’s Chris Mason 2.0, essentially. He’ll be the odd man out simply because of talent and investment, I think.
Great link for me to check out. Pssst… check the bottom comment.
A while back I mentioned Dekanich and you dismissed him. Now you’ll never hear the end of his successes.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
Ha. I never saw that comment till now. I was trying to avoid you.
I still think Dexshow isn’t going anywhere besides serviceable NHL backup, and that won’t be here. But he’s lit it up so far in the AHL.
You never know with a goalie, but the more you knock him the more I’m going to bring it back to you. He could just be a late bloomer, and he wouldn’t be the first goalie to come out of nowhere and become a pretty solid player.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
I agree, but there’s a reason he got beat out in training camp for the backup spot in Nashville, I think.
Because that damn Gooback TUK HIS JAAAAAAAAAAAAAHB!
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
by Rob Parker on Dec 1, 2010 4:40 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Well Lindback is younger, bigger, and has SEL experience already. Seems like the higher quality prospect. I’m not saying that Dekanich deserved to beat him out, I have no idea. I’m just saying not to count out Dekanich at this point.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
Not sure if anyone mentioned this yet
Panger40 Look for Della Rovere (#19) to play in his 1st NHL game tonight against the team that drafted him and wearing the # of the player traded for
If you were a hotdog would you eat yourself? I know I would.
by Knubles and Bits on Dec 1, 2010 4:18 PM EST reply actions
Anyone want to take bets on who gets more ice, King or SDR?
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
Better bet is who comes out with a better +/- rating from the game.
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:: headdesk ::
You perhaps knew me better as "Your Nation's Capital." Same great commentary, now with 100% more transparency!
Strickland chimes in about the game…left off a Caps line; unlike Rutherford, he’s not expecting Janssen to play.
Really?
It was a trade of one guy who’d never get a jersey for another guy who’d never get a jersey. In hindsight, since BB appears allergic to putting King in the lineup, it was not the greatest trade ever, but I don’t think we lost much in Della Rovere, seeing as how guys like Konopka are available for near-league minimum every offseason.
And I hear you talk the talk, but I don't see you walk the walk and I still don't believe a thing you say.
I mostly agree with you, and don’t think SDR would sniff our lineup, but if he’s capable of playing in the NHL on a pretty good team then that does make it look worse for us.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
Meh. We’ll see if he stays up. This smells a lot like a reward for a good soldier. Bring him up for a taste of the bigs and let him play against his prior organization.
Of course, if he does stick, then yeah, the Blues look a lot better.
I’m real interested to see how Delly looks against real competition (assuming the Caps show up to play tonight).
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If. . . but I think the main reason he’s getting a jersey tonight is injury.
And I hear you talk the talk, but I don't see you walk the walk and I still don't believe a thing you say.
The Blues are as, or more, injured than the Avs.
"Essentially, all models are wrong, but some are useful" George E.P. Box
by Knee high to a duck on Dec 1, 2010 5:02 PM EST up reply actions
We’ll see if this is the ol’ one-night stand for SDR, but being as how they gave him a “real” number (19) and not some training camp number, maybe he stays up ’til the other pros get healthy.
He’s played quite well (and even fairly disciplined-ly) for Peoria, and Ima guessing Coach French says “what if” from time-to-time. Though Bruess and Pinner already own the agitator/pest roles.
You perhaps knew me better as "Your Nation's Capital." Same great commentary, now with 100% more transparency!
From the Strickland article, it looks like STL will match a shutdown line up against AO and Co. I’m wondering if they put their first line in against Laich/MarJo/Semin? I have to think they will.
That leaves Delly playing against the third/fourth lines of the Caps. Pretty decent matchup, really.
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McClement is a badass shutdown player. Watch that dude play, it’s a real trip.
"Essentially, all models are wrong, but some are useful" George E.P. Box
by Knee high to a duck on Dec 1, 2010 5:04 PM EST up reply actions
In hindsight, since BB appears allergic to putting King in the lineup
And good on him. DJ King is a disaster when he’s not punching someone’s face.
"Essentially, all models are wrong, but some are useful" George E.P. Box
by Knee high to a duck on Dec 1, 2010 5:03 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
He may get to do a lot of that tonight.
I’m not sure how often any of you watch the Blues, but for my money, they’re the dirtiest team in the NHL. Backes, Winchester, Janssen, and Jackman take any liberty they want on and away from the play, whether it be with their stick or something else. They make it a point to target stars and vulnerable players (they targeted Sullivan blatantly). Hendricks, Erskine, and King have their work cut out for them.
so, Knuble should be worried about his jaw tonight?
Pledge Drive 2010-2011: SO KIDS CAN!! Help build a playground
Yes. He’s gonna take some shots on that jaw from some or all of the players CB mentioned, and probably from a couple he didn’t. Think 2007 Ducks level of goonery from the majority of the roster.
Problem is, they’re good. When Oshie and Perron come back, they’re a top-tier team, in my opinion.
"Essentially, all models are wrong, but some are useful" George E.P. Box
by Knee high to a duck on Dec 1, 2010 6:12 PM EST up reply actions
I think its worse than the 07 Ducks. Brewer is a tool, too, and so is Oshie (though I can tolerate him). Perhaps the worst of all is actually Backes, which is unfortunate, because he doesn’t need to resort to that like Janssen or Winchester might.
lovely. I hated the 07 Ducks. a disgrace to the game that that collection of thugs and goons is on the Cup.
Pledge Drive 2010-2011: SO KIDS CAN!! Help build a playground
I dunno, that team was pretty much the Goon Squad less Selanne and MacDonald.
"Essentially, all models are wrong, but some are useful" George E.P. Box
by Knee high to a duck on Dec 1, 2010 6:44 PM EST up reply actions
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