Bourque to Avs 2000 = Iginla to Caps 2011?
by STLSpidey on Nov 4, 2010 3:43 PM EDT
Email
Print
On my drive to work this morning, I heard Pete Weber the Preds' PXP man talk with Mike Ross of Hockey This Morning on NHL Home Ice on XM.
They chatted about the woes of the Calgary Flames, and Weber speculated that, at some point, Jarome Iginla might receive the "Ray Bourque" treatment and leave Calgary is his quest for the Stanley Cup. Weber went on to point out that Iginla's contract runs through the 2011-2012 season, the same contract length the Avs assumed when they received Bourque from the Bruins.
So I started to think about Iginla coming to the Capitals. He's a RW, which would fit nicely with Ovechkin and Backstrom, putting Semin back on the 2nd line. When I had a gap at work, I went back to look at the Bourque trade, so see if we might repeat something similar.
To refresh your collective memories:
On March 2, 2000, Boston traded Ray Bourque to Colorado with Dave Andreychuk for Brian Rolston, Martin Grenier, Sammy Pahlsson and New Jersey's 1st round choice (previously acquired, Boston selected Martin Samuelsson) in 2000 Entry Draft.
- Bourque was 39 and had been with Boston for 20 seasons, having started full-time in the NHL as a 19-year-old. He ended up playing out his contract with the Av's, winning the Stanley Cup in his second season in Colorado.
- Andreychuk was a 36-year-old center and was set to become a free agent at the end of the 2000 season. At that point in his career he was roughly a 20G, 20A player. At the end of the season, Andreychuk did in fact leave Colorado, signing with Buffalo.
- Rolston was a 26-year-old center, destined to become a 30G, 30A player with several teams. His is still in the league, currently fighting through injuries with New Jersey.
- Grenier was a 20-year-old minor league defenseman. He is a big man - 6;5" and 245 pounds. He was a 2nd round pick of the Avs in 1999. In his last full QMJHL season, 1999-2000 with the Quebec Remperts, Grenier racked up 302 PIMs in 67 games. He ended up playing a total of 8 NHL games in his career, for three teams, although none with Boston.
- Pahlsson was then a 22-year-old center in the minors. He was a 7th round pick. He is still playing, now with Columbus, having a bit of a non-descript career, with only one season above 10 G.
- The pick ended-up being the 27th overall. (FWIW - Samuelson played 14 games for the B's and is now out of hockey).
So - a standout, but aging D and a burly 2C for an up-and-coming center, a massive PIM-collector of a D, a serviceable center and a low first round pick.
If the Caps made a similar run at Iginla, the trade could look something like this:
Calgary sends Iginla to the Caps for Eric Fehr, John Erskine, Andrew Gordon and a 1st round pick. A veteran for an up-and-coming wing, a burly D, a minor leaguer with potential, and a 1st rounder.
The biggest hurdle would be salary today. Iginla = $7M annual salary. Fehr + Erskine = $3.45M annual salary. Assuming Holtby and Fahey go back to Hershey, this trade would leave the Caps barely under the salary cap. The ability to acquire other players this season would almost certainly disappear. GMGM doesn't like to tie his hands like that. Salary cap reasons prevent me from throwing in a center such as Brendan Morrison, Olie Jokinen or Craig Conroy to truly mimic the B's-Av's deal.
(I am not a salary cap expert, so the above could be dead wrong.)
The next hurdle would be salary 2011-2012. Assuming Iginla's $7M in 2011 would almost certainly spell the end of Alexander Semin's career in D.C.
The more I stare at the trade, the more I think I would do it, if I were the Caps. I doubt, however, that the Flames would take just this. They would likely ask for one of our two young goalies.
Nonetheless, it's intriguing to consider.
If this FanPost is written by someone other than one of the blog's editors, the opinions expressed in it do not necessarily reflect those of this blog or SB Nation.
19 comments
|
1 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
He’s a player that there’s a surplus of, position-wise. This team needs more defensive depth, so losing Erskine would hurt. And he’s ridiculously expensive, so you can say goodbye to Semin, Laich, and Alzner next year.
Big no from me.
Agreed. We don’t need wingers. We need a center first and foremost and then a defenseman. Adding another winger – no matter how good – is a luxury we can’t afford.
The "Other" Box Seats Blogger
I think you sell Sammy Pahlsson short. He may not have tons of points, but he has been a stud shut down C for years now and was a huge part of ANA’s Cup. He could easily have garnered attention for Conn Smythe.
I wouldn’t do the trade. We already have tons of skill on the wings. It would be nice to see Iggy and the Caps win a Cup, but losing Semin and not getting a C would be a step in the wrong direction. Iggy is on the wrong side of his prime and we could definitely keep Semin for Iggy’s money; realistically we’d probably keep Semin for less than what Iggy makes. The salary cap really is the only reason not to like this, but it’s too big to ignore.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
Thanks for enlightening me on Pahlsson.
The salary cap is a bummer, and 2010 is the “poster child” for how teams can screw themselves with bad cap management.
Life With Spidey -- a blog about sports, travel, work, family and fun.
Representing Caps fandom in the Gateway to the West.
I don’t know if you go to Battle of California ever (if you don’t, you should), but Earl Sleek has a well known man crush on Pahlsson.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
This, plus also you’re giving up two young forwards from an organization whose own prospects would likely be 2 years from contributing to the pros. Well written nonetheless.
"DON'T SAY THAT! Please! That is the worst, most stupid thing anyone could say! Cause it quite clearly isn't "only a game." I mean if it was do you honestly think I'd care this much?"
Also, while Grenier may have turned into nothing, his trade value was probably higher than Erskine’s. A 20 year old D prospect has more value than an overpaid soon to be UFA 30 year old who has proven to be no more than a 7D.
Release the Mackan!
by Killer_Carlson on Nov 4, 2010 9:46 PM EDT up reply actions
As an Avs fan, I was bummed about giving up Rolston, but he never panned out in Colorado. At the time, Grenier was considered a legit NHL prospect and not an insignificant price to pay. Still, the move was a no-brainer.
And I hear you talk the talk, but I don't see you walk the walk and I still don't believe a thing you say.
As it pertains to the salary cap the numbers you use are slightly off base. If we were to acquire him around the trade deadline we would only have to get the prorated portion of his salary under the cap. That would be approximately 1.5M which we have plenty of room for that. Also if you take out the 750K from Fehr and Erskine we would still have plenty of room to get the Dman we might need down the stretch. As for next year his contract would be a huge problem and on that notion alone I would not be interested in trading for him. I also feel like hes not nearly what he use to be and would not be that big of an upgrade over Fehr especially when you take salary into consideration.
Iggy is still relatively young, and of recent has been playing with a pretty terrible Flames compared to his “glory years”.
Compared directly to Semin, his goal scoring may be in question. Semin has hit 40 once, Iginla has done it almost 4 times (scoring 39 one year) and 50 three times. Iginla is also a far more competent defensive player and a veteran-ed leader.
Salary Cap may not be a big issue. A Straight out trade of Iginla for Semin leaves the Caps a 1 million deficit from the trade They currently have 3.266 available. If we don’t sign Knuble for next season, which at his age could very well happen, that also covers the extra million bringing the total space up to 5 million and change. 5 Million to cover potentially Flash, Laich, Brads, Gordo, Hendricks, Alzner and Varly in JUST their pay raises and free agency. I’m not considering resigning Erksine, which raises the total number even higher. Reasonably speaking Laich, Alzner and Varly could easily get a 1 mil or more raise each.
Of course that would be IF we trade Semin, or don’t resign him. The only question really here, other than going after Iginla, is if we can reasonably expect Semin to stick around. After the lengthy negotiations before, 6 million cap, and his UFA status it would all seem to indicate he wants more money. Money the Caps may not be willing to give him. So do the Caps negotiate, come to that viewpoint, and sit on him potentially for the playoffs or trade him and attempt to get value out of him further down the stretch.
Bruce Boudreau when asked about Brooks Laich's return to the lineup, he said: "He just adds another dimension to our team. If it was puzzle, he just fits that thing. He completes us."
Brooks Laich completing everything from teams to tires and everything in between.
Iginla simply isn’t worth what amounts to Fehr and a 1st, not at that salary cap number. The Caps are going to need their firsts to not only pan out, but contribute significantly in the coming seasons with Green and Carlson both needed new deals at the end of next season, combined with AO and Backstrom’s existing deals.
I’m not convinced that Iginla is still a guy that can carry an NHL scoring line and for 7 mil a year, he has to be that. Giving up two valuable cost-controlled asset for a guy that’s presently a downgrade on Alex Semin? No, I think I’ll pass. Scott Niedermayer would have been the player I’d pulled the trigger on that deal for, but not Jarome Iginla.
"Essentially, all models are wrong, but some are useful" George E.P. Box
by Knee high to a duck on Nov 4, 2010 5:24 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I would love to have Iginla, what team wouldn’t? But, I already have a Fehr jersey, so if we tweaked the trade above to sub Fehr for Flash I’d be happy :)
~~~ R0cK D@ R3D ~~~
by Chaz-Capapalooza on Nov 4, 2010 5:59 PM EDT reply actions
Not a 2C or good quality d-man, therefore it’s not a priority right now. Not to mention the fact that as you proposed it, we’d be trading away one of our limited supply of d-men.
LET'S GO CAPS!!!
Right team, wrong analogy
The better analogy here would be the Avs’ trade for Theo Fleury in ’99.
The Avs gave up Robyn Regehr to get the ‘enigmatic’ Fleury who was clearly on the downslope of his career. Unlike Iggy, Theo was a UFA after that year, so the Avs were only saddled with him for one season.
Fleury was a great player, but the Avs should have done their homework – his substance abuse problems (and goddamned Ed Belfour) likely derailed the Avs’ chance at a Cup that year. The Avs spent the next 5 years trying to get Regehr back from the Flames only to end up with Derek Morris and Jordan Leopold.
And I hear you talk the talk, but I don't see you walk the walk and I still don't believe a thing you say.
speaking of Regher....
(and I realize I’m real late to this thread but hope someone will respond to my post)
With Calgary sliding into the abyss and already willing to shake it up (recent trade with Car + rumors of Iggy on the block, etc) now might be the time to strike and raid Calgary (ala TOR did at this time last year with Phaneuf). ….
I was originally trying to figure out a deal with Flash for Regher as the centerpieces. Now, I realize Calgary wants youth and cap relief more so may be willing to lose the top talent. But a Flash for Regher trade doesnt help much in that area. What if we also were willing to accept Jokinen and give back low, expiring contracts like Erskine’s/Poti’s + some AHL talent (Baby Gus?). Obviously this largely rides on what y’all think of Jokinen and if he has anything left in the tank but he’s not a bad 2C insurance policy. With him as 2C you can slide Semin to first line and surround Jokinen with plodders Knuble and Laich. OR use Jokinen as your healthy scratch / playoff insurance policy and let MJ stay in the lineup. … Thoughts? Feasible?
"If you want money, go to the bank. If you want bread, go to the bakery. If you want goals, go to the net." - Brooks Laich
"...I got the most gentlemanly player in juniors my last year. I'm a gentleman, always a gentleman." - Matt Bradley
Poti was resigned through 2013. I am not a fan of Flash but I would rather have him than Jokinen. His numbers have dropped since he left Florida. Jokinen is more of a goal-scoring center than a playmaker.
Jokinen for a lower cap hit, based on his current and past production, I may take. Regher is really the only player from Calgary that I would like to see on the Caps right now. Nothing against Iginla, his position is just not our most needed spot.
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
Related FanPosts on Japers' Rink
Related FanShots on Japers' Rink
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recent FanPosts
FanShots
Quick hits of video, photos, quotes, chats, links and lists that you find around the web.
Recent FanShots
The Vault
In Association With
Latest Puck Daddy - NHL from Yahoo! Sports
- Why the Devils and the Kings are evidence the Capitals shouldn’t trade Alex Ovechkin
- Eulogy: Remembering the 2011-12 New York Rangers
- Stanley Cup Final: 5 keys for New Jersey Devils and Los Angeles Kings
- Friday’s Three Stars: Devils head to Final; Brodeur, Kovalchuk the difference in Game 6
- Devils eliminate Rangers in Game 6, ending fear of the past, setting course for the future
