Caps Acquire Scott Hannan for Tomas Fleischmann
by J.P. on Nov 30, 2010 12:17 PM EST
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PrintPer Bob McKenzie on Twitter, the Caps have acquired Avalanche defenseman Scott Hannan. Details to follow, and for more on Hannan, check out his SB Nation player page.
Update (12:19): Per Adrian Dater, it's Tomas Fleischmann going the other way.
Update (12:40): Per the team:
ARLINGTON, Va. – The Washington Capitals have acquired defenseman Scott Hannan from the Colorado Avalanche in exchange for forward Tomas Fleischmann, vice president and general manager George McPhee announced today.
Hannan, 31, is an 11-year NHL veteran who has played for Colorado and the San Jose Sharks. The 6’1", 225-pound defensive defenseman has played 775 career games, recording 30 goals, 150 assists, 456 penalty minutes and a +22 rating. This season Hannan has six assists and a +1 rating while playing all 23 games for the Avalanche.
Hannan has played at least 71 games in each of his 11 pro seasons, including 97.2% of the games since he made the NHL full-time in 2000-01. He has averaged 18:37 of ice time per game this season and 22:02 per game in the course of his career. His teams have made the playoffs eight times in 10 seasons prior to this one.
A first-round pick of the Sharks, 23rd overall, in the 1997 Entry Draft, Hannan broke into the league after an all-star career with the Kelowna Rockets of the Western Hockey League. He was a teammate of current Capital Matt Bradley with the Sharks and signed with Colorado as a free agent on July 1, 2007.
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A very good move. I coveted this guy when he was a free agent a few seasons back. Very reliable stay-at-home D who doesn’t take too many penalties.
But what did the Caps give up?
Very reliable stay-at-home D
He’s ok, but if you’re hoping for a Rod Langway type, prepare for disappointment.
And I hear you talk the talk, but I don't see you walk the walk and I still don't believe a thing you say.
Never expected a Rod Langway-type out of Hannan. But, this satisfies those who think Sarge is too soft for his size and that Poti/Erskine make too many defensive errors at the wrong times.
Plus, Alzner & Carlson now have a good tutor.
by PureAgression on Nov 30, 2010 12:24 PM EST up reply actions
Hannan hits less than sarge.
And I hear you talk the talk, but I don't see you walk the walk and I still don't believe a thing you say.
I don’t think this is true. Hannan has been one of the Avs leaders in hits and blocked shots for the past few seasons. I think he can be pretty physical, definitely more so than Schultz.
Ok. I watch a ton of Avs games and I totally disagree, but I’ll let you find this out on your own.
Maybe “less than Sarge” is a bit of hyperbole, but he’ll hit about as much as Poti or Alzner, which is to say not much. John Erskine, he ain’t.
And I hear you talk the talk, but I don't see you walk the walk and I still don't believe a thing you say.
And I think that’s fine. We don’t need him to be a top-2 D and we don’t need him to hit, we just need someone other than Sloan. He’s better than Sloan, right? He’s also better than Bieksa and better than a lot of other D names that have floated around here in the last few days/weeks/months as trade options. I’m happy :)
If anyone needs me, I'll be at Kettler.
I’m happier with him than either Bieksa or Sloan, that’s for sure.
Bieksa sounds too much like a more error-prone Poti.
And I hear you talk the talk, but I don't see you walk the walk and I still don't believe a thing you say.
Bieksa is much more aggressive and physical than Poti ever was or will be. Error-prone, yes at times. And instead of allergies, he has a freakish tendency to get get cut by skate blades and go on the IR.
I poured spot remover on my dog. Now he's gone.
by Rather Bengt on Nov 30, 2010 2:52 PM EST up reply actions
He blocks a lot of shots though, and is a much better skater than Erskine. All Erskine does is hit. I guess poor journalism was to blame for me saying he hits, cause that’s what it says in most of the articles, “that he was one of the team leaders in hits and blocked shots.”
Are you knocking this move? I know he’s not Scott Stevens. But he’s a big dude who can eat up some minutes, and can definitely fit in as top-4 here. A definite upgrade.
2009-2010:
Hannan: 67
Schultz: 66
And I hear you talk the talk, but I don't see you walk the walk and I still don't believe a thing you say.
I’m not arguing with you, just referring to their take on the trade.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
Yeah, I know. Just thought I’d actually look it up for shits and giggles.
The real issue, as I see it, is that Colorado thought they were getting Hannan circa 2001-3, and instead, they got “post-lockout” Hannan. I give him credit for changing up his game in the wake of the rule changes, but he’s never since been the “in your face” defenseman people thought he was.
Still, I think he could pull a Hal Gill and morph during the playoffs when the rules are a little looser.
And I hear you talk the talk, but I don't see you walk the walk and I still don't believe a thing you say.
I think there was also a bit of the PHI-Eminger thing there. Hannan had a beast of a playoff series against COL, but I thought it was ‘04. They saw that and were hoping that was the “everyday” Hannan. It wasn’t.
I agree about the playoffs. He has a pretty good track record and plays that similar style. He was also one of their best D last year against SJS.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
No need for insults.
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by IRockTheRed on Nov 30, 2010 12:37 PM EST up reply actions
I thought that was kind.
And I hear you talk the talk, but I don't see you walk the walk and I still don't believe a thing you say.
There has to be salary going back the other way, otherwise the Avs could drop below the floor.
Makes sense. I was hoping for Quincey, but Hannan’s a rental. I guess he waived his NTC.
This also makes the O’Byrne and Hunwick trades make more sense in hindsight.
And I hear you talk the talk, but I don't see you walk the walk and I still don't believe a thing you say.
Depending on what the Caps gave up.....
This is a good move. As a Pens fan, this is one of two moves I was hoping the Caps wouldn’t make.
And the other?
Washington Capitals 2009-10 = Quebec Nordiques 1994-95
--- D'ohboy
by MikeL-Pivonka on Nov 30, 2010 1:31 PM EST up reply actions
2C (Richards), I guess.
My blog and Twitter, featuring coverage of the most unpredictable team in the NHL and where we defend Mike Green, Alex Ovechkin, and Alexander Semin until the bitter end. That is to say, when someone tries to call BS on the Corsi numbers.
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by red army line on Nov 30, 2010 1:33 PM EST up reply actions
Loving this trade if it is indeed for Flieschmann. We traded an area of strength (skill winger) for an area of need (reliable D).
"Now wait a minute. This is just purely a social call. You know, just two adults getting a stew on, man."
by The Ghost of Bebop on Nov 30, 2010 12:20 PM EST reply actions
Sorry for the pretty worthless post. To answer your question – we lack defense depth, and have plenty of scoring wingers to go around.
He played for Canada at the World Cup of Hockey in 2004.
Past his prime but solid defenseman.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
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by Karina on Nov 30, 2010 12:33 PM EST up reply actions
He’s 31. He’s right smack dab in the middle of his prime. What we see is what we get.
by DrinkingPartner on Nov 30, 2010 1:25 PM EST up reply actions
Wow.
/blinks twice
Wow.
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by YvonLabresMoustache on Nov 30, 2010 12:20 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
I didn’t think I’d ever see the day, either.
by DrinkingPartner on Nov 30, 2010 1:26 PM EST up reply actions
I’m really shocked. Like when I came over today to read links, I did not expect this. For all the chatter we’ve had and rumors thrown about to move so quickly is….its a GMGM move that’s for sure!
I’m sure Flash though will be moderately successful for the Avs though. Depending on his minutes and line, he could easily break 20 goals again.
Bruce Boudreau when asked about Brooks Laich's return to the lineup, he said: "He just adds another dimension to our team. If it was puzzle, he just fits that thing. He completes us."
Brooks Laich completing everything from teams to tires and everything in between.
Re’ed for perfection: you got me with blinks twice. Just wow!
Alright, confess-how many goals are you going to make this year?
"I'm not going to tell!"
Well can you at least guarantee fifty?
"No way. I have a different objective. To win."
by capsyoungguns on Nov 30, 2010 9:09 PM EST up reply actions
dunno much about Hannan but he seems like the kind of guy we need. I like the trade
"I would say my biggest flaw, my Achilles heel is my tireless work ethic"-Kenny Powers
75+ games a season, more importantly.
Many a night from yonder ivied casement, ere I went to rest,
Did I look on great Orion sloping slowly to the West.
Equally importantly. Experience on the blueline is a must-have for any contender.
You had me at no problem.
Absolutely stellar move. Would have preferred if the guy had some meat still left on his contract but he’s a legitimate top 4 D and we get rid of the guy that was dragging down the 2nd line. It ain’t a 2C, but it’s a solid duct tape fix to a problem that wouldn’t normally be addressed by bringing in a defenseman.
Many a night from yonder ivied casement, ere I went to rest,
Did I look on great Orion sloping slowly to the West.
I love the depth this brings. A potential Hannan-Poti bottom pair, with Erskine filling in as needed for injuries? Works for me.
"Now wait a minute. This is just purely a social call. You know, just two adults getting a stew on, man."
by The Ghost of Bebop on Nov 30, 2010 12:23 PM EST up reply actions
I remember wanting to acquire Hannan back when he was a UFA. I’m glad we didn’t, given his price, but I’m happy to have him now. I actually like the timing of the trade. He’ll have time to get to know the Caps’ system.
"Now wait a minute. This is just purely a social call. You know, just two adults getting a stew on, man."
by The Ghost of Bebop on Nov 30, 2010 12:21 PM EST reply actions
I’m trying desperately to remember, but weren’t there questions raised somewhere about Hannan’s work ethic and attitude?
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by YvonLabresMoustache on Nov 30, 2010 12:23 PM EST reply actions
Yeah. I think Bourne tweeted something to that effect. I’ve never heard anything like that from the Denver Media, though.
And I hear you talk the talk, but I don't see you walk the walk and I still don't believe a thing you say.
I still think Fleischmann can be a 20-25 goal guy…in the right place.
"I speak in .gifs, snappy retorts and curse words."
by Steck It Out on Nov 30, 2010 12:48 PM EST up reply actions
He was that here last season. Not this season though at the pace he was on. I doubt he’ll be a 20 goal in Colorado this year, but next year maybe (if they resign him).
Washington Capitals 2009-10 = Quebec Nordiques 1994-95
--- D'ohboy
by MikeL-Pivonka on Nov 30, 2010 1:33 PM EST up reply actions
If he’s put on a line with Duchene, it’ll be interesting…
"I speak in .gifs, snappy retorts and curse words."
by Steck It Out on Nov 30, 2010 1:33 PM EST up reply actions
Well, they did. Hannan was a spare part for them and injuries have decimated their wings. I may be happy to see Flash go, but this trade is, on paper at least, a win for both teams.
And I hear you talk the talk, but I don't see you walk the walk and I still don't believe a thing you say.
They did, but not a “whole lot better,” which is what he said (and what I left out).
That being said, looking at their depth chart, I could see Fleischmann on a top line with Paul Statsny and Milan Hejduk. That’d be a hell of a speedy line.
Calling Hannan a spare part for the Avs is giving their D too much credit, I think. They have very little size and very little defensive focus back there now.
Last season Hannan led them in 5-on-5 toi per game.
My blog and Twitter, featuring coverage of the most unpredictable team in the NHL and where we defend Mike Green, Alex Ovechkin, and Alexander Semin until the bitter end. That is to say, when someone tries to call BS on the Corsi numbers.
If you don't know how to use Timeonice, read this.
"Numbers don't lie, they just don't agree with you"--George E. Ays
by red army line on Nov 30, 2010 1:01 PM EST up reply actions
We’ll just have to disagree on this. With Foote (when healthy), Quincey and O’Byrne, their D is plenty big.
And I hear you talk the talk, but I don't see you walk the walk and I still don't believe a thing you say.
I guess I meant healthy D.
Also IINM Quincey has been a disappointment this season, but that’s neither here nor there.
Quincey looks like a disappointment in large part because Liles has taken back the #1PP role. Quincey’s play hasn’t been that much different than last year (he’s still making mistakes), he’s just not getting the stats.
And I hear you talk the talk, but I don't see you walk the walk and I still don't believe a thing you say.
This move, per Capgeek’s calculator, leaves the Caps with $2,383,074 in cap space. That’s enough for a number of deadline day acquisitions.
If that number stays the same between now and the trade deadline, the caps could still bring on over 11 million in salary for the final 40 days of the season.
Because now I can justify browsing and commenting during the work day with the argument that I am promoting my business.
by Sombrero Guy on Nov 30, 2010 12:25 PM EST up reply actions
I appreciate your calculation in this and the clips yesterday, and I’m certainly not insulting your math skills, but has anyone double checked this? I ask because this sounds almost too good to be true!
I hope they do double check me. There is a reason I went majored in Marketing, and not engineering.
Because now I can justify browsing and commenting during the work day with the argument that I am promoting my business.
by Sombrero Guy on Nov 30, 2010 12:39 PM EST up reply actions
FWIW here is what I used
Current Salary Cap Space / 40 (days left in NHL season after trade deadline) = X (salary cap space available to add at trade deadline) / 186 (number of days in 10-11 NHL season)
2,380,074 / 40 = X / 186
X = $11,067,344.10
Because now I can justify browsing and commenting during the work day with the argument that I am promoting my business.
by Sombrero Guy on Nov 30, 2010 12:45 PM EST up reply actions
FYI, capgeek actually has a daily calculator you can use. They use a a different formula and came up with 2.37 mill remaining for the Caps at the deadline.
http://www.capgeek.com/tracker/team.php?team=30&date=2010-11-30&quick_launch=2011-02-27
It’s 2.37, but that 2.37 is worth closer to the 11 that SG is mentioning. He’s just prorating cap space instead of prorating player salaries, because it’s easier to look at a player’s Avg Annual Value than it is to try and prorate them.
Capgeek says you don’t use a prorated number to see if a player will fit.
The team could add a player to its roster with a full-season cap hit that is less than or equal to this total.
Anyone know for sure?
Yes, Salary Caps are calculated daily, and because the team is only on the hook for 40 days out of the 186 days used to calculate the daily cap hit, they can add players with 6 or 8 million cap hits at the deadline, even if their cap space is around 2 million.
Another way to look at it is At the beginning of the 186 day season, teams are responsible for 100% (186/186) of the Cap hit. At the trade deadline, they’re only responsible for the remaining 21.5% (40/186) of the annual Salary Cap hit.
Because now I can justify browsing and commenting during the work day with the argument that I am promoting my business.
by Sombrero Guy on Nov 30, 2010 1:33 PM EST up reply actions
Nah, but Neuvi, Carlson and MarJo can’t count on Fahey helping out on the rookie dinner tab.
This sig is brought to you by... Frungy, The Sport of Kings!
That’s going to hurt. Too bar Alzner doesn’t count as a rookie.
Bruce Boudreau when asked about Brooks Laich's return to the lineup, he said: "He just adds another dimension to our team. If it was puzzle, he just fits that thing. He completes us."
Brooks Laich completing everything from teams to tires and everything in between.
I think the year Alzner had to pay for rookie dinner, it was just him and Sloan. talk about tough on the wallet.
Pledge Drive 2010-2011: SO KIDS CAN!! Help build a playground
McPhee just traded a roll of charmin toilet paper for a rock. Good move.
by Link_Gaetz on Nov 30, 2010 12:23 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Guess that depends on whether you’re trying to break windows… or wipe.
by DarkHorseCards on Nov 30, 2010 12:27 PM EST up reply actions 6 recs
I’m more of a scissors man myself.
Bruce Boudreau when asked about Brooks Laich's return to the lineup, he said: "He just adds another dimension to our team. If it was puzzle, he just fits that thing. He completes us."
Brooks Laich completing everything from teams to tires and everything in between.
Scissor me timbers.
And I hear you talk the talk, but I don't see you walk the walk and I still don't believe a thing you say.
by D'ohboy on Nov 30, 2010 3:42 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Definitely an upgrade over Sloan, but I’d hope to see him in the bottom two here. I would like to see 27-74 stay together, and Hannan doesn’t seem like a top pairing guy…
I would like to see Green paired with Hannan. This is exactly what he needs, an experienced, shut down D man.
Hannan-Green
Carlson-Alzner
Schultz-Poti
Only negative with that is I can see A LOT of goals against for that last pairing.
~~~ R0cK D@ R3D ~~~
by Chaz-Capapalooza on Nov 30, 2010 1:39 PM EST up reply actions
Schultz is an experienced, shut down D man with pretty strong passing skills. There’s no reason to pair Hannan with Green unless Schultz is hurt.
Many a night from yonder ivied casement, ere I went to rest,
Did I look on great Orion sloping slowly to the West.
...
Schultz is an experienced, shut down D man
~~~ R0cK D@ R3D ~~~
by Chaz-Capapalooza on Nov 30, 2010 1:43 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Are you philarmy under a different name?
The bastards hung me in the spring of '25. But I am still alive.
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Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Nov 30, 2010 1:44 PM EST up reply actions
no but good one lol.
~~~ R0cK D@ R3D ~~~
by Chaz-Capapalooza on Nov 30, 2010 2:00 PM EST up reply actions
MHHers and D’oh say Hannan has no puck skills. He was top pair last year in Colorado but has since fallen down the chart (last about 2-3 mins TOI from last year). 2B pair with Poti.
I’ve been writing down the Corsi numbers for each game so far this season, and Schultz usually does better than Green (well, until Green returned from injury—since then Green has been stellar). Schultz is top-pair capable.
My blog and Twitter, featuring coverage of the most unpredictable team in the NHL and where we defend Mike Green, Alex Ovechkin, and Alexander Semin until the bitter end. That is to say, when someone tries to call BS on the Corsi numbers.
If you don't know how to use Timeonice, read this.
"Numbers don't lie, they just don't agree with you"--George E. Ays
by red army line on Nov 30, 2010 1:46 PM EST up reply actions
I think a lot of Shatty’s success can be attributed to being paired with Hannan. It allowed him to take more risks and jump into the play more, knowing Hannan would cover him. The same thing is happening with Liles.
I took this off the Avs website…This is why I think Hannan should be paired with Green, he would be unstoppable.
~~~ R0cK D@ R3D ~~~
by Chaz-Capapalooza on Nov 30, 2010 2:00 PM EST up reply actions
Without doing a lot of BTN research
My impression is that a good comparison for Hannan would be Alzner. Steady D-man who doesn’t take many penalties, won’t put up a lot of points but kind of gets the job done without getting much notice.
Because now I can justify browsing and commenting during the work day with the argument that I am promoting my business.
If that’s true, this trade has made my day.
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by CapitalCentre on Nov 30, 2010 1:34 PM EST up reply actions
That is exactly who Hannan resembles and plays similarly to. I think Hannan may have a little more instincts when it comes to offense, as he’s probably a better passer than Alzner in the attack zone, but a lot of that is from experience, which he has tons of compared to Alzner. Still he’s going to be a great fit for the Caps.
Washington Capitals 2009-10 = Quebec Nordiques 1994-95
--- D'ohboy
by MikeL-Pivonka on Nov 30, 2010 1:35 PM EST up reply actions
I think Hannan may have a little more instincts when it comes to offense
Do like Missy Misdemeanor and flip it and reverse it. Alzner has the better puckmoving chops.
And I hear you talk the talk, but I don't see you walk the walk and I still don't believe a thing you say.
by D'ohboy on Nov 30, 2010 2:34 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
It sounds like Hannan is very much in the Alzner/Poti/Schultz mold. Solid positionally, not very mobile (Alzner is the exception there), not a huge hitter, good blocker.
every so often, Poti has these moments of surprising straight-line speed. And then it disappears for another 20 games.
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Hannan, D, 31yo, 4.5M cap hit, UFA to be
Fleischmann, F, 26yo, 2.6M cap hit, UFA to be
Good luck to Fleischmann in Denver!
Hannan’s worn 22 as a pro for a long time but wore a lower number earlier in his career. Maybe he’ll wear #2 ?
Somewhere Calle Johansson weeps.
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by YvonLabresMoustache on Nov 30, 2010 12:30 PM EST up reply actions
Iafrate wore 34 with the Caps, not 43.
Washington Capitals 2009-10 = Quebec Nordiques 1994-95
--- D'ohboy
by MikeL-Pivonka on Nov 30, 2010 1:36 PM EST up reply actions
I suspect that 2 will be his number. 22 isn’t presently available. Number hasn’t been assigne yet. Probably will be announced later.
Washington Capitals 2009-10 = Quebec Nordiques 1994-95
--- D'ohboy
by MikeL-Pivonka on Nov 30, 2010 1:37 PM EST up reply actions
Lineup should be
Green-Poti
Carlson-Hannan
Alzner-Erskine
Don’t tell me about his +/-, Schultz brings nothing to this team
except, you know, solid defense.
Because now I can justify browsing and commenting during the work day with the argument that I am promoting my business.
by Sombrero Guy on Nov 30, 2010 12:26 PM EST up reply actions 5 recs
000
Don’t tell me about his +/-, Schultz brings nothing to this team
Oh for the love of Mary
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by YvonLabresMoustache on Nov 30, 2010 12:26 PM EST up reply actions 6 recs
Did you watch the TB game from last Friday (or any other game)? There were countless times where Schultz got a D-to-D pass and had no idea what to do with it and just gave it right back when their were wingers open up ice. He has no confidence and zippy fire.
Let’s all of the other games in which he’s been fantastic. Let’s ignore all the evidence that doesn’t fit the Cled Schultz narrative.
"Now wait a minute. This is just purely a social call. You know, just two adults getting a stew on, man."
by The Ghost of Bebop on Nov 30, 2010 12:29 PM EST up reply actions
I’m not a Schultz hater. I’m rather indifferent to him, but I just don’t think defensemen who consistently get the ankles broken should be in this lineup
Sigh if nothing else you’re predictable,
by Yoshietree on Nov 30, 2010 12:31 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
All of the stats point to Schultz being effective. I don’t care how he looks while doing it, if he prevents goals from being scored he can walk around the ice on his hands for all I care.
"Now wait a minute. This is just purely a social call. You know, just two adults getting a stew on, man."
by The Ghost of Bebop on Nov 30, 2010 12:33 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
I’m not a Schultz hater. I’m rather indifferent to him, but I just don’t think defensemen whoconsistentlygetgot the ankles brokenwhile he had a broken rib should be in this lineup
Fixed.
The bastards hung me in the spring of '25. But I am still alive.
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Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Nov 30, 2010 12:34 PM EST up reply actions
Hey now, 100% of the time I watch the replay from that game on Youtube, Schultz get’s his ankles broken. If that is not consistency, I don’t know what is.
"Do not be afraid to ask for credit, for our way of refusing is very polite."
by Laich It Or Lump It on Nov 30, 2010 12:37 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Schultz was the best defensive defenseman for the Caps the past few games, including seven blocked shots vs. Carolina on Sunday (probably saved the team a goal with all those blocks). The guy is not a great skater and never will be, but he is a smart player and great at making sure he is in the right position. He may be one of the best defesemen in the NHL in defensive positioning out there. He is always breaking up passes, blocking shots, clearing the puck.
Everyone who watches him a few games says he’s lucky when he’s in the right place. Schultz makes his own luck.
Washington Capitals 2009-10 = Quebec Nordiques 1994-95
--- D'ohboy
by MikeL-Pivonka on Nov 30, 2010 1:41 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Please don’t make me dig for another head desk GIF. I’m begging you.
The bastards hung me in the spring of '25. But I am still alive.
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by YvonLabresMoustache on Nov 30, 2010 12:29 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, TB completely abused Schultz for several chances and goals last Friday. It’s a major reason why Tampa dominated that game.
What’s that? Tampa scored 0 goals and only had 17 shots all game? And Schultz played 22 minutes, often against the top line? That’s unpossible!
The reason Schultz’s mistakes are “countless” is because other than a couple of you tube clips they are logged entirely in your own head.
Release the Mackan!
by Killer_Carlson on Nov 30, 2010 1:09 PM EST up reply actions 11 recs
Shultz may of been on ice a decent amount against Stamkos/St. Louis but it was Carlznerson that was thrown out against them every time.
I cant think of a single bad game this season for Shultz or even last season. You don’t get to +/- champ while playing with that loose cannon and 4rth forward Mike Green without playing some D yourself.
Bruce Boudreau when asked about Brooks Laich's return to the lineup, he said: "He just adds another dimension to our team. If it was puzzle, he just fits that thing. He completes us."
Brooks Laich completing everything from teams to tires and everything in between.
Um. +/- isn’t the only stat that points to Schultz’s effectiveness. I really hope this post is snark.
Also, why break up the Alzner-Carlson pairing? They’ve been great.
"Now wait a minute. This is just purely a social call. You know, just two adults getting a stew on, man."
by The Ghost of Bebop on Nov 30, 2010 12:26 PM EST up reply actions
Oh hey philarmy, glad you could bring your enlightened thoughts to this discussion.
Don't worry about getting to your point, I'm going to live forever.
by SeattleCapsFan on Nov 30, 2010 12:26 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Do. Not. Feed. The. Troll.
And I hear you talk the talk, but I don't see you walk the walk and I still don't believe a thing you say.
by D'ohboy on Nov 30, 2010 12:31 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
we’re you that idiot behind me yesterday that ripped on Schultz over and over and over? Yes, now everyone on the metro (and the Rink) knows you, a self proclaimed hockey expert, actually know nothing about hockey.
Pledge Drive 2010-2011: SO KIDS CAN!! Help build a playground
by RedBirdie on Nov 30, 2010 12:31 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Never have and never will ride the metro. I don’t rip on Schultz either. Just state the obvious from an objective standpoint.
Maybe you can think that Schultz is a decent player, but I don’t get why people vigorously defend him like he’s a future HOF-er
no, just defend him from ill-informed people like yourself who claim he brings nothing to the team.
Pledge Drive 2010-2011: SO KIDS CAN!! Help build a playground
No one thinks he’s a future HOFer. We think he’s a good, solid defenseman that takes a ton of unnecessary crap for something that happened two years ago.
The bastards hung me in the spring of '25. But I am still alive.
Box Seats Blog
Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Nov 30, 2010 12:38 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
Regardless of what everyone thinks of Shulta, do you see him or Erskine going by by? I don’t see anyone on the roster’s D being sent back to hershey?
I think Erskine, as much as I love him, better start looking for home buyers
1 way contract, so obviously not going anywhere. Besides BB’s crush on Schultz will prevent him from going anywhere
This isn’t NHL 11. A one or two way contract simply refers to the amount of money a player makes in the A and the L. It does not determine waiver eligibility.
The bastards hung me in the spring of '25. But I am still alive.
Box Seats Blog
Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Nov 30, 2010 12:40 PM EST up reply actions 7 recs
In addition to this, Schultz’s above average play.
"Don't mind WM...he's an all-around jerk."
by Whiter Mage on Nov 30, 2010 12:40 PM EST up reply actions
you’re just a fountain if incorrect information today.
Pledge Drive 2010-2011: SO KIDS CAN!! Help build a playground
considering who just got traded...
its pretty safe to say that GMGM will trade who he wants to, when he wants to, even if BB has a crush on him or not.
I don’t think there was a love affair. Flash was the guy who BB thought best fit his system on offense for a role. Nothing more, nothing less.
"Don't mind WM...he's an all-around jerk."
Flash was the guy who BB thought best fit his system on offense for a role. Nothing more, nothing less.
But I think BB came around and figured out that he wasn’t really suited for that role. And that Flash wasn’t going to take a spot from Laich and Ovechkin as a top six left wing , and that he had better options for the third and fourth line left wings in Chimera and Hendricks.
meh, it seemed like there was a love affair at one point. wasn’t it last season when the rink was pretty much convinced BB was in love with flash since he kept getting preferential treatment over Fehr?
A lot of the rink, yeah, but not everyone in the rink shares the same viewpoint. I thought Flash was better than Fehr last season too, but was inconsistent.
"Don't mind WM...he's an all-around jerk."
Not exactly in love…but BB seemed to give Flash lots of chances to try and succeed, and the guys apparently tease Fehr for getting yelled at by the coaches a lot.
My blog and Twitter, featuring coverage of the most unpredictable team in the NHL and where we defend Mike Green, Alex Ovechkin, and Alexander Semin until the bitter end. That is to say, when someone tries to call BS on the Corsi numbers.
If you don't know how to use Timeonice, read this.
"Numbers don't lie, they just don't agree with you"--George E. Ays
by red army line on Nov 30, 2010 1:34 PM EST up reply actions
Disagree. BB still loves Flash from the HER days and his huge playoff numbers that one year.
I don’t care though, fucker is gone. BB is gonna have to find another marshmallow if he wants to keep making ’smores with our second line.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
by Rob Parker on Nov 30, 2010 5:59 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Besides BB’s crush on Schultz Schultz’s value relative to his contract will prevent him from going anywhere.
BB’s mancrush didn’t save Flash.
Release the Mackan!
by Killer_Carlson on Nov 30, 2010 1:10 PM EST up reply actions
Erskine’s been surprisingly good this year.
Of course, the chances of that holding up are slim and none.
The bastards hung me in the spring of '25. But I am still alive.
Box Seats Blog
Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Nov 30, 2010 12:39 PM EST up reply actions
Agreed… Erskine will benefit from a night off now and then, and will be a reliable 7th d-man. I hope he will do what Schultz does and do a lot of watching video and learning how to overcome his skating ability by knowing where to be.
Washington Capitals 2009-10 = Quebec Nordiques 1994-95
--- D'ohboy
by MikeL-Pivonka on Nov 30, 2010 9:28 PM EST up reply actions
hahahaha
Joke, right?
"Don't mind WM...he's an all-around jerk."
by Whiter Mage on Nov 30, 2010 12:37 PM EST up reply actions
I’d suggest reading page 40, 62, and 64 of last season’s Hockey Analytics. Among other things…
by Alex Reed on Nov 30, 2010 12:40 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
In the words of Dr. Cox...
Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong.
Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong.
You’re wrong. You’re wrong.
by leacha on Nov 30, 2010 12:54 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I am very glad that you are not the coach, rather a MORON
Just rub some dirt on it
by Trailblaza05 on Nov 30, 2010 1:07 PM EST up reply actions
Eh, guy has an opinion, and he’s backing it up. It’s not fair to call the guy a moron.
"Don't mind WM...he's an all-around jerk."
You still don’t call a guy a moron. His opinion might be stupid, but I’m not a fan of personal attacks.
"Don't mind WM...he's an all-around jerk."
by Whiter Mage on Nov 30, 2010 1:11 PM EST up reply actions 7 recs
Bingo. Leave the personal attacks at the door.
"Essentially, all models are wrong, but some are useful" George E.P. Box
by Knee high to a duck on Nov 30, 2010 1:52 PM EST up reply actions
You mean like this one?
Want to see a player who’s softer than a pillow made out of charmin stitched with silk? Watch Tomas Fleischmann’s ginger self avoid the boards like it’ll give him a soul. God, I hate that guy.
We're Hüsker Dü and we're on MTV. Who are you, and what are you on?
by bilspacecadet on Nov 30, 2010 2:05 PM EST up reply actions
was that directed at a fellow community member? no? then its relevance escapes me.
by Natty Bumppo on Nov 30, 2010 2:08 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Naturally. And I laguhed at those episodes more than the next person. But it’s still a dick move IMO and like I said if someone said that to e or about me there would be fists invovled.
Because he called him a ginger? Isn’t Flash a ginger?
Don't worry about getting to your point, I'm going to live forever.
by SeattleCapsFan on Nov 30, 2010 2:21 PM EST up reply actions
That’s a direct reference to the South Park episode, while also referencing his perceived lack of heart, grit, jam, whatever. Insofar as I believe in souls, I’m sure that Flash, and all redheaded people, are equipped with one.
"Essentially, all models are wrong, but some are useful" George E.P. Box
by Knee high to a duck on Nov 30, 2010 2:25 PM EST up reply actions
Fair enough. Not sure why I’m so hell bent on making an issue of this….sitting here re-reading the comments I have no idea why. Full moon or something.
[Insert ginger joke here]
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
I felt bad about taking things so seriously and intentionally threw a hanging curve ball…you’re the only one to swing for the fences. Bravo.
If folks discussing player ability (or lack thereof) is a personal attack, I better get the banhammer oiled up.
"DON'T SAY THAT! Please! That is the worst, most stupid thing anyone could say! Cause it quite clearly isn't "only a game." I mean if it was do you honestly think I'd care this much?"
by Bald Pollack on Nov 30, 2010 2:10 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I hate with style and passion when I want to, but I’m not seeing malice brought on by the usual modernate interweb thinking.
"DON'T SAY THAT! Please! That is the worst, most stupid thing anyone could say! Cause it quite clearly isn't "only a game." I mean if it was do you honestly think I'd care this much?"
by Bald Pollack on Nov 30, 2010 2:16 PM EST up reply actions
*or unusual I guess.
"DON'T SAY THAT! Please! That is the worst, most stupid thing anyone could say! Cause it quite clearly isn't "only a game." I mean if it was do you honestly think I'd care this much?"
by Bald Pollack on Nov 30, 2010 2:17 PM EST up reply actions
All of that said, this is where the “Flag” button under “Actions” should be used if anyone has a problem with anything that might be said.
I’d have come to the thread sooner, but they had to go and do this thing at lunch hour.
"DON'T SAY THAT! Please! That is the worst, most stupid thing anyone could say! Cause it quite clearly isn't "only a game." I mean if it was do you honestly think I'd care this much?"
by Bald Pollack on Nov 30, 2010 2:23 PM EST up reply actions
I’m not using ad hominem to dismiss anyone’s argument, nor am I doing anything other than assessing his play on the ice.
If I’d said, “Flash is an idiot and a totally worthless human being, oh and by the way, he has no soul ‘cuz he’s a ginger.”, you’d have a closer analogy.
"Essentially, all models are wrong, but some are useful" George E.P. Box
by Knee high to a duck on Nov 30, 2010 2:27 PM EST up reply actions
Oh, it was a joke. And I agree about the desire to keep the rink free of personal attacks.
We're Hüsker Dü and we're on MTV. Who are you, and what are you on?
by bilspacecadet on Nov 30, 2010 5:03 PM EST up reply actions
So is the below comment ok. Guess cause it gets rec’d ….
“we’re you that idiot behind me yesterday that ripped on Schultz over and over and over? Yes, now everyone on the metro (and the Rink) knows you, a self proclaimed hockey expert, actually know nothing about hockey.”
Just rub some dirt on it
by Trailblaza05 on Nov 30, 2010 4:59 PM EST up reply actions
This is where I say (again) look 3 posts up from this and look at the guidance on the “Flag” button. Or if you don’t like the environment, back button’s to your upper left.
"DON'T SAY THAT! Please! That is the worst, most stupid thing anyone could say! Cause it quite clearly isn't "only a game." I mean if it was do you honestly think I'd care this much?"
by Bald Pollack on Nov 30, 2010 5:12 PM EST up reply actions
It’s not that I dont like the environment. I love the environment and I love this site for what Japer’s and company do for us. It’s just that I get criticize while long time poster’s seem to be view differently.
Just rub some dirt on it
by Trailblaza05 on Nov 30, 2010 5:16 PM EST up reply actions
Aside from the semantics between comparing someone to someone else (to say nothing for the original commenter’s lack of substance in his first comment that served as a several hundred post threadjack) vs. actually namecalling, I’m not sure what it is you’re looking for. Equal punishment? Fine.
But again, if there’s a comment that’s out of bounds with the community guidelines and you either don’t want to respond to them directly and respectfully (or there’s not a mod around to address it), flag it and it’ll get addressed.
"DON'T SAY THAT! Please! That is the worst, most stupid thing anyone could say! Cause it quite clearly isn't "only a game." I mean if it was do you honestly think I'd care this much?"
by Bald Pollack on Nov 30, 2010 5:27 PM EST up reply actions
what, because I called the guy an idiot? I have no patience for ignorance, and particularly none for ignorance dressed up as expertise. Fine, flag me. It’ll be a new and exciting experience.
Pledge Drive 2010-2011: SO KIDS CAN!! Help build a playground
I know that was a little harsh I just hate when people shoot from the hip with Shenanigans
Just rub some dirt on it
by Trailblaza05 on Nov 30, 2010 1:11 PM EST up reply actions
The pairings will likely be:
1) Schultz-Green
2) Poti-Hannan
3) Alzner-Carlson
Power play unit 1 will be Green-Ovechkin and unit 2 will be Carlson-Poti
PK can use any of the three pairs above. All are effective.
Washington Capitals 2009-10 = Quebec Nordiques 1994-95
--- D'ohboy
by MikeL-Pivonka on Nov 30, 2010 1:43 PM EST up reply actions
So where does Bieska fit in? 7th D?
We're Hüsker Dü and we're on MTV. Who are you, and what are you on?
by bilspacecadet on Nov 30, 2010 1:50 PM EST up reply actions
He fits in nicely with the Canucks…
Washington Capitals 2009-10 = Quebec Nordiques 1994-95
--- D'ohboy
by MikeL-Pivonka on Nov 30, 2010 9:29 PM EST up reply actions
Who has a quick link to that GIF of the Nick Jr kid dancing. Insert here, please.
My blog and Twitter, featuring coverage of the most unpredictable team in the NHL and where we defend Mike Green, Alex Ovechkin, and Alexander Semin until the bitter end. That is to say, when someone tries to call BS on the Corsi numbers.
If you don't know how to use Timeonice, read this.
"Numbers don't lie, they just don't agree with you"--George E. Ays
Note: I’ll keep updating the post, so keep refreshin’.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
Should be a no brainer in terms of upgrade of Erskine/Sloan…Do Alzner/Carlson get permanently paired now?
I’d think so. 52-55, 3-Hannan, 74-27 works for me.
"And then they’ll look at guys in my situation, that could play three good games in a row and have one bad shift, and they’ll say, ‘Well, that’s why he’s been in the minor leagues his whole career.'" --Matt Hendricks
4-Hannan when Poti gets hurt again?
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
by twistedlogic on Nov 30, 2010 1:02 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
the main disappointment for me: it seems the caps have sold flash at the low point in his value (at least until this point). a flash-for-a-D move last season (when we actually had a few centers on the roster) would have brought such a better return.
I’d say we got a wonderful return for Flash. Last season prior to the deadline, it was looking like he might be a key piece of secondary scoring for a playoff run.
You had me at no problem.
I don’t think a second-pairing D on an expiring contract is a great return, but it’s not bad. Even-Steven.
2nd pairing D for 2nd line winger, both on expiring contracts, with the cap not being a big issue? Seems fair to me, even if Flash were producing better.
No doubt an offseason move would have given them more liquid assets (picks to flip at the deadline or such), but realistically Hannan is the type of player we might have targeted at the deadline regardless. This just cuts out the middle man and costs us a little bit extra cap space.
For an underperforming wing on an expiring contract? I think it’s a pretty good return. Flash has talent, but it just wasn’t happening this year for whatever reason. Not to mention he playoff dissappearing act.
Just trying to capture the spirit of the thing...
by dcsportsfan1 on Nov 30, 2010 12:38 PM EST up reply actions
flash’s playoff mettle was a pretty serious question even during his hot streak last year.
by Natty Bumppo on Nov 30, 2010 12:33 PM EST up reply actions
True, but I don’t have a huge issue with giving Flash one more shot to prove he can’t play in the playoffs instead of trading him. I’m not sure they would have gotten a much better return than Hannan last year, and if they did that D wasn’t going to be the difference in the Montreal series. So while they did trade Flash at relatively low value I’m not too upset about it.
Release the Mackan!
by Killer_Carlson on Nov 30, 2010 1:13 PM EST up reply actions
Just wow.
So everyone owes Chesnokov an apology of sorts, too.
Winger who was scratched to the west in return for a defenseman. No Russians were harmed in this transaction.
"It's always good to have vikings."
I’m still dying to know how the hell Chesnokov fits into it.
Many a night from yonder ivied casement, ere I went to rest,
Did I look on great Orion sloping slowly to the West.
Semin told him how excited he was to not have to play with Flash as his center anymore.
by vtcapsfan99 on Nov 30, 2010 12:31 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
LOL, I don’t blame him
~~~ R0cK D@ R3D ~~~
by Chaz-Capapalooza on Nov 30, 2010 12:33 PM EST up reply actions
Is that true? Hilarious if so.
"And then they’ll look at guys in my situation, that could play three good games in a row and have one bad shift, and they’ll say, ‘Well, that’s why he’s been in the minor leagues his whole career.'" --Matt Hendricks
just making up stuff. Actually Semin is probably friendly with Flash, since Flash seems so well liked. He probably gave Flash a great big hug before he left the building today.
I don’t think it’s hard to convince Sasha to hug his teammates.
John Carlson - Glory follows him.
Six Beers Too Many Fantasy Team - BizNasty's Hobo Rodeo
by boutros23 on Nov 30, 2010 1:06 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
This season his bromance with Green has seemed to really pick up. I’m waiting for some pics of Semin hanging on Nicky.
Nobody touches Nicky but Ovi!
"And then they’ll look at guys in my situation, that could play three good games in a row and have one bad shift, and they’ll say, ‘Well, that’s why he’s been in the minor leagues his whole career.'" --Matt Hendricks
I can’t post pictures at work, but I have a picture of the interview after a game last season where Nicky and Green have their arms around each other.
The video of that interview is great – looked like someone bet Nicky to keep his arm draped over Greenie during the entire interview because Mike glances at Nicky’s arm a couple of times and Nicky is smirking.
by Ray of Sunshine on Nov 30, 2010 2:48 PM EST up reply actions
they look like they’re high school BFFs
Pledge Drive 2010-2011: SO KIDS CAN!! Help build a playground
“And now that we’ve blasted Atlanta, I’m gonna show Nicky what “Stack of Ones” means…"
Washington Capitals 2009-10 = Quebec Nordiques 1994-95
--- D'ohboy
by MikeL-Pivonka on Nov 30, 2010 9:31 PM EST up reply actions
isn’t there a russian in the caps front office now? PR guy? can’t remember. definitely interesting that chesnokov had the scoop on a trade involving two non-russians.
by Natty Bumppo on Nov 30, 2010 12:50 PM EST up reply actions
Yup – Sergey Kocharov, we stole him from the Coyotes after Paul left.
If anyone needs me, I'll be at Kettler.
thanks! i remembered a profile at storming the crease, but couldn’t locate it without his name. here it is, from late october.
by Natty Bumppo on Nov 30, 2010 1:31 PM EST up reply actions
Dimitry mentioned a deal in the works involving a Caps winger and a D man from the west. It was laughed off, with people wondering which russian D man the caps could bring back, etc.
Because now I can justify browsing and commenting during the work day with the argument that I am promoting my business.
by Sombrero Guy on Nov 30, 2010 12:51 PM EST up reply actions
So everyone owes Chesnokov an apology of sorts, too.
So does that mean if I say the Caps will trade a draft pick for a 2C and leave it at that people will apologize to me?
"DON'T SAY THAT! Please! That is the worst, most stupid thing anyone could say! Cause it quite clearly isn't "only a game." I mean if it was do you honestly think I'd care this much?"
by Bald Pollack on Nov 30, 2010 1:18 PM EST up reply actions
If it happens, yes.
Look, you know what I meant, and he’s a fairly credible source. And he got a lot of flack on Sunday when nothing happened.
"It's always good to have vikings."
Indeed he did, but it’s not like Flash has been blogosphere trade bait for 6 months now, and it’s not like his tweet was revelatory. Or to put it another way: ‘Without the particulars, it’s no different from that one guy whose fake last name starts with “E.”’
"DON'T SAY THAT! Please! That is the worst, most stupid thing anyone could say! Cause it quite clearly isn't "only a game." I mean if it was do you honestly think I'd care this much?"
by Bald Pollack on Nov 30, 2010 1:56 PM EST up reply actions
It went from the realm of “this is something they want to happen” to “this is something that is (or looks to be) about to happen.” There’s plenty of value there.
Agree to disagree I guess.
"DON'T SAY THAT! Please! That is the worst, most stupid thing anyone could say! Cause it quite clearly isn't "only a game." I mean if it was do you honestly think I'd care this much?"
by Bald Pollack on Nov 30, 2010 2:04 PM EST up reply actions
Now Bruce needs a hug.
You perhaps knew me better as "Your Nation's Capital." Same great commentary, now with 100% more transparency!
And a new E class
Washington Capitals 2009-10 = Quebec Nordiques 1994-95
--- D'ohboy
by MikeL-Pivonka on Nov 30, 2010 9:31 PM EST up reply actions
Oh, and Bruce’s wife will be happy as he has a new friend to hit Penguin Pinatas with…. and he’ll just have to introduce Hannan to the Triplets.
Washington Capitals 2009-10 = Quebec Nordiques 1994-95
--- D'ohboy
by MikeL-Pivonka on Nov 30, 2010 9:33 PM EST up reply actions
True story here.
"Don't mind WM...he's an all-around jerk."
by Whiter Mage on Nov 30, 2010 12:40 PM EST up reply actions
Anyone have Flash’s numbers vs. Western Conf teams? I feel like (without data to back it up) he will do well in the west…
I think the change of scenery is going to do him wonders. He’s got the talent, hopefully he puts forward the motivation to get shit done out there.
"Don't mind WM...he's an all-around jerk."
by Whiter Mage on Nov 30, 2010 12:43 PM EST up reply actions
Flash vs West
year Games G A P
10-11 – 3 1 0 1
09-10 14 4 3 7
08-09 18 6 3 9
Because now I can justify browsing and commenting during the work day with the argument that I am promoting my business.
by Sombrero Guy on Nov 30, 2010 12:54 PM EST up reply actions
it’s a small sample size, but those numbers don’t look too “un-flash-like”…
averages around the mid 20’s per 82 games…
seems right…
It basically looks the same east vs west.
Because now I can justify browsing and commenting during the work day with the argument that I am promoting my business.
by Sombrero Guy on Nov 30, 2010 1:00 PM EST up reply actions
BB has given Flash tons of great opportunities, no?
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
Absolutely. But I think a change o fscenery will be good for him. His game is nothing but redundant in DC atleast in Colorado he’ll be going somewhere the W depth chart is a bit thinner.
I also think he’ll benefit by going somewhere that isn’t as run and gun as the Caps.
Change of scenery could help, but he didn’t seem like a guy that was in the doldrums in DC. The W depth is the big thing.
As for run and gun, I don’t know. I think he benefited from having BB, who gave him tons of slack for his defensive short comings. I don’t know if COL will do that. I also think a system that lets you go balls out for offense is likely to help almost every skill player, at least in their stats.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
I think he benefited from having BB, who gave him tons of slack for his defensive short comings. I don’t know if COL will do that.
Sometimes constructive criticism/tough love/being on the receiving end of a good ass chewing is a better motivator than blind love/ignorance.
My initial thought is that Hannan is a depth guy, but the more I read, he’s a legit top 4 – on this team, maybe a top 2.
Nope. He’ll be a nice fit with Poti on a bottom pair. He’ll get PK and 5v5 time. Pencil him in for 18-20/night depending on injuries.
And I hear you talk the talk, but I don't see you walk the walk and I still don't believe a thing you say.
I agree but I think that it’s a great fit for what the Caps need. He’s a well above average 3rd pairing guy who can fill in on the 2nd pair if there are injuries. There are still plenty of minutes for Carlznerson but if one or both of them falter a bit BB has more options for how to divide the ice time.
Release the Mackan!
by Killer_Carlson on Nov 30, 2010 1:16 PM EST up reply actions
No doubt. Just trying to temper expectations somewhat.
And I hear you talk the talk, but I don't see you walk the walk and I still don't believe a thing you say.
I hear ya. I like the move since Flash wouldn’t get a legit top-4 on his own, but Hannan is better than just getting a typical 5/6 D who is only good because he pushes Sloskine down to 7/8.
Release the Mackan!
by Killer_Carlson on Nov 30, 2010 1:55 PM EST up reply actions
Oh, for sure. He can fill in in the top-4, just so long as we don’t expect him to do much with the puck.
And I hear you talk the talk, but I don't see you walk the walk and I still don't believe a thing you say.
And ain’t it nice to have a 3rd pairing that can be trusted with 18-20 min instead of 15?
Release the Mackan!
by Killer_Carlson on Nov 30, 2010 1:17 PM EST up reply actions
And ain’t it nice to have a 3rd pairing that can be trusted with 18-20 min instead of sort of1510?
"Essentially, all models are wrong, but some are useful" George E.P. Box
by Knee high to a duck on Nov 30, 2010 1:55 PM EST up reply actions
I was being generous since I’m in a good mood about the trade, but yeah.
Release the Mackan!
by Killer_Carlson on Nov 30, 2010 2:08 PM EST up reply actions
Whoa there. He was fourth in ice time on a mediocre team, not playing against the top competition and getting middling stats while doing it. I wouldn’t say top 4 on the Caps at all. Sure, he could handle the minutes if he had to, but I would think he’s better suited to be a bottom pairing guy in DC.
Behintthenet.ca suggests he was facing opponents’ top lines. #2 in corsi rel QoC among Avs regulars.
"That’s why stats are so important – anecdotal evidence just doesn’t cut it when you’re talking about history." - Bower Power
by The '67 Sound on Nov 30, 2010 12:42 PM EST up reply actions
I thought he was third. Not a big difference either way and you’re right by implying that I probably overstated my case.
IIRC one guy ahead of him had 12 games. Given the “rel” part I thought it safest to stick with the uninjured.
I don’t profess to know where he fits on your depth chart but it looks like you’re getting a very solid defensive D-man in exchange for streaky F who was the inspiration for one of the funniest denigrations I’ve ever seen (it was by one of you folks on PPP in the preview to the Caps-Leafs game).
Bottom line: I’m really, really jealous. Pls don’t re-sign Semin, pretty please.
"That’s why stats are so important – anecdotal evidence just doesn’t cut it when you’re talking about history." - Bower Power
by The '67 Sound on Nov 30, 2010 1:24 PM EST up reply actions
it looks like you’re getting a very solid defensive D-man in exchange for streaky F who was the inspiration for one of the funniest denigrations I’ve ever seen (it was by one of you folks on PPP in the preview to the Caps-Leafs game).
credit: knee high.
by Natty Bumppo on Nov 30, 2010 1:40 PM EST up reply actions
Thx. Love that album.
"That’s why stats are so important – anecdotal evidence just doesn’t cut it when you’re talking about history." - Bower Power
by The '67 Sound on Nov 30, 2010 1:24 PM EST up reply actions
Does he shoot left or right?
Winning is everything. The only ones who remember you when you come second are your wife and your dog.
Initial Reaction
WOO HOO!
~~~ R0cK D@ R3D ~~~
by Chaz-Capapalooza on Nov 30, 2010 12:32 PM EST reply actions
P.S. I bet Avs fans are pissed.
~~~ R0cK D@ R3D ~~~
by Chaz-Capapalooza on Nov 30, 2010 12:33 PM EST up reply actions
No. They think Flash is a solid winger. I’ve tried to disabuse them of that impression.
And I hear you talk the talk, but I don't see you walk the walk and I still don't believe a thing you say.
after a little while THEN they’ll be pissed
"I would say my biggest flaw, my Achilles heel is my tireless work ethic"-Kenny Powers
Probably to step in as the second line center. We all saw how that worked out lol.
~~~ R0cK D@ R3D ~~~
by Chaz-Capapalooza on Nov 30, 2010 12:36 PM EST up reply actions
never mind I forgot they were set at center…maybe second line winger?
~~~ R0cK D@ R3D ~~~
by Chaz-Capapalooza on Nov 30, 2010 12:37 PM EST up reply actions
Chris Stewart is going to be out a while. Flash adds winger depth.
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
by twistedlogic on Nov 30, 2010 1:04 PM EST up reply actions
Let them dream. They’ll wake to cold reality soon enough.
There's always more to learn about Hockey.
If Flash is playing like he is capable, he’s a legit 20+ goal guy… that helps any team.
Washington Capitals 2009-10 = Quebec Nordiques 1994-95
--- D'ohboy
by MikeL-Pivonka on Nov 30, 2010 1:46 PM EST up reply actions
That’s what you get when you don’t watch the Caps as much as needed and don’t like Corsi.
My blog and Twitter, featuring coverage of the most unpredictable team in the NHL and where we defend Mike Green, Alex Ovechkin, and Alexander Semin until the bitter end. That is to say, when someone tries to call BS on the Corsi numbers.
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by red army line on Nov 30, 2010 12:44 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
where would you insert flash in the Avs’ lines, d’oh? where do you think sacco will insert him?
by Natty Bumppo on Nov 30, 2010 12:51 PM EST up reply actions
I think he’ll skate on one of the top lines, but if I were Sacco, I’d put him out there with Duchene and Hejduk.
And I hear you talk the talk, but I don't see you walk the walk and I still don't believe a thing you say.
Colorado has to be a jumbled mess up top with no Stewart, Galiardi, or Mueller.
by Chris Burton on Nov 30, 2010 1:01 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah. Kevin Porter has been skating on the top lines. In addition, they also lost Winnik.
And I hear you talk the talk, but I don't see you walk the walk and I still don't believe a thing you say.
Eesh. Flash could (will?) see a steep increase in responsibility, then.
by Chris Burton on Nov 30, 2010 1:10 PM EST up reply actions
Getzlaf. He’ll come play here for cheap so he can get combover tips from whoever did Iafrate’s hair back in the day.
Many a night from yonder ivied casement, ere I went to rest,
Did I look on great Orion sloping slowly to the West.
by sydtron on Nov 30, 2010 1:23 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
LOL. I hope the person that did Iafrate’s hair has had Lasik or some sort of corrective eye surgery since then.
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Mrs. Leeman?
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by YvonLabresMoustache on Nov 30, 2010 1:35 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Ouch! Nice reference…
Washington Capitals 2009-10 = Quebec Nordiques 1994-95
--- D'ohboy
by MikeL-Pivonka on Nov 30, 2010 1:47 PM EST up reply actions
I can NEVER remember if it was Iafrate sleeping with Mrs. Leeman, or Leeman sleeping with Mrs. Iafrate. I think it’s the latter, no?
The bastards hung me in the spring of '25. But I am still alive.
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Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Nov 30, 2010 1:48 PM EST up reply actions
The latter, yes.
I poured spot remover on my dog. Now he's gone.
by Rather Bengt on Nov 30, 2010 1:51 PM EST up reply actions
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Option A: Embrace the baldness and shave all your hair off.
Option B: Hide the baldness with a combover.
Option C: All of the above, with a mullet.
Many a night from yonder ivied casement, ere I went to rest,
Did I look on great Orion sloping slowly to the West.
by sydtron on Nov 30, 2010 1:39 PM EST up reply actions 8 recs
This must be rec’d.
"And then they’ll look at guys in my situation, that could play three good games in a row and have one bad shift, and they’ll say, ‘Well, that’s why he’s been in the minor leagues his whole career.'" --Matt Hendricks
Aside from Flash, the only one not happy about this is Sloan. We’re back to eight defensemen. He’ll never see the ice again (then again, Erskine won’t see much, either).
Please, no comments about that being a good thing; I’m only commenting on his feelings.
"It's always good to have vikings."
I don’t know…it sucks to be leaving the #1 team in the league but Flash might be excited to be going somewhere where he’s not stuck behind so many elite forwards.
Sorry, it wasn’t meant to be a comment about COL, it was more about having to pick up and move and the assorted crap that goes along with it. Like many of his teammates, this is the only NHL home he’s known, and it’s been a lot of years.
"It's always good to have vikings."
yeah, on a personal level, I always feel for guys who get traded mid-season. “Pack up and go!” and hardly a chance to say good-bye to the people you know. Summer trades you get a bit ore time to square everything up.
I do believe that Colorado comes for a visit sometime this season.
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Flash was on ice for practice this morning so they must have told him as soon as he came off the ice……it must be very strange – everyone else is hustling out the door to catch the plane to STL and Flash is left behind. He seemed to be very well liked in the locker room….I guess HBO isn’t filming yet to capture the reaction.
by Ray of Sunshine on Nov 30, 2010 3:00 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, Knuble sorta mentioned that today when he was on 980 earler. Nothing specific or crazy, just talked about how you kinda just try to encourage him, tell him how good an opportunity it can be for him etc.
This is the side of the trade that is sad. Poor Flash left behind and dejected. I’m glad that he had guys like Knuble to help him feel better before they left. Even though Knuble hasn’t been playing great this year, his leadership is still valued. I hope Flash got a call from his new captain, and Hendericks put him in touch with some of the players.
I felt worse for Clark when he was moved. Probably because Clark has moved a couple of times to ‘rebuilders.’ Until this becomes a frequent thing for Flash, then I’ll feel more bad for him.
That said, it has to suck, royally. First, to go from a cup contender to a team that is not the most cup contentious team in the world. But beyond that, even though it is all business, it just has to sting to be told “we value the potential contribution of someone else over your contribution.” I’d be throwing things.
If it's too loud, turn it down.
Plus, the timing of the Clark trade was a lot worse. At least everyone has a day to digest the Flash trade before the next game.
While the Clark trade was, he (and everyone else) showed up for the morning skate but when evening rolled around, he was gone and everyone was shocked. And it was probably more shocking since it involved the team captain.
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Ovechwin got his signature this morning before the news broke.
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He was so happy :(
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Pleasure and pain, though directly opposite are contrived to be constant companions.
Somehow I think not.
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Pleasure and pain, though directly opposite are contrived to be constant companions.
A chance to play with a countryman in Hejduk and on the first line? Sounds pretty good, really.
by DrinkingPartner on Nov 30, 2010 4:28 PM EST up reply actions
Eh, I guess.
Plus Juice isn’t here any more, yea, he’s probably happier.
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Pleasure and pain, though directly opposite are contrived to be constant companions.
Can’t see why not. He could be a first liner there.
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
by twistedlogic on Nov 30, 2010 4:29 PM EST up reply actions
I wonder if they’ll try to juggle 8 d-men again, or if Sloan goes on waivers to try and send him to Hershey.
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I’d guess it depends on GMGM’s thoughts on whether he’d be claimed. We probably don’t care, but we all know he hates to lose assets for nothing. It probably would screw up Hershey if he was sent there, because they’ve got veteran issues already.
"It's always good to have vikings."
good point, I forgot about the vet limit in the AHL.
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Does the NHL have “options” like they do in baseball?
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
by twistedlogic on Nov 30, 2010 1:05 PM EST up reply actions
no. The process of sending a player to the minors is different in hockey and baseball. For Sloan, if he were to be sent back to Hershey (ignoring the issue of how much space, if any, Hershey currently has for a “veteran” player), he will have to be places on waivers, giving every other team in the NHL a chance to place a claim. If a team claims him, he’s gone (you can’t pull a guy back like in baseball). If he clears, he goes to Hershey.
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Makes sense. Thanks.
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
by twistedlogic on Nov 30, 2010 1:13 PM EST up reply actions
I should add, though, that once Sloan comes off the IR, he could be sent to Hershey for a rehab assignment, avoiding waivers. But rehabs are limited. He’d still come back to DC once the stint is over.
just trying to cover all the possibilities :)
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I’d imagine that he’ll play out that entire assignment. Or possibly being “injured” will get him thru waivers? That tactic has worked in baseball on occasion.
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
by twistedlogic on Nov 30, 2010 1:20 PM EST up reply actions
Who gives a crap, we don’t need him. Who will claim him on waivers?
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Pleasure and pain, though directly opposite are contrived to be constant companions.
He still has his uses. Do you want Fahey in the lineup for the playoffs if Poti or somebody else is hurt?
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
by twistedlogic on Nov 30, 2010 1:23 PM EST up reply actions
she’s snarking. Ovechwin is one of our Empresses of the Tyler Sloan Fan Club.
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That’s kinda what I thought, but I posted anyways. The snark meter has been malfunctioning of late. I blame work.
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
by twistedlogic on Nov 30, 2010 1:28 PM EST up reply actions
I’d imagine that he’ll play out that entire assignment. Or possibly being "injured" will get him thru waivers? That tactic has worked in baseball on occasion.
no, I think it’s in the CBA as to how long a rehab assignment can last, to avoid that sort of thing.
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Well yea….I get that part. He’ll play out the maximum assignment per the CBA. My question was whether they’ll try and push him thru waivers because he’s a fringe player coming off of an injury as opposed to actually rehabbing.
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
by twistedlogic on Nov 30, 2010 1:29 PM EST up reply actions
IIRC you can’t generally waive injured players.
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I’m horrible at explaining what I mean. He wouldn’t be injured anymore. He’d be back on the active roster.
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
by twistedlogic on Nov 30, 2010 2:04 PM EST up reply actions
They’re pros and they’ll get over it, but the caps’ room will be sad for a few days I think.
Flash was very well-liked.
I’m glad I got to see him at the “Coming to America” panel at CapsCon. He’s a funny, funny guy.
You perhaps knew me better as "Your Nation's Capital." Same great commentary, now with 100% more transparency!
I’ll always remember Flash walking around Six Flags with his Flash superhero cape on. So silly, and he was so good humored about people joking about it in the hot dog line.
Pledge Drive 2010-2011: SO KIDS CAN!! Help build a playground
Ditto on seeing him on the panel. It was an unexpected surprise to hear his banter – very quick wit and sense of humor – especially how learning english saved him from only eating chicken in restaurants!
by Ray of Sunshine on Nov 30, 2010 3:07 PM EST up reply actions
So, uh…this makes the Avs’ pickup of yet another D in Hunwick a little more understandable, no? Also, pick ‘em: Hannan or Hunwick? I know what I’m going with ;)
If anyone needs me, I'll be at Kettler.
Salary aside, I’d likely take Hannan. Considering salary, Hunwick for sure.
And I hear you talk the talk, but I don't see you walk the walk and I still don't believe a thing you say.
Even considering our particular situation? The salary doesn’t hamstring us for this season so it doesn’t really matter to me. We can’t make a move immediately, but in the second half of the season we’ll have banked enough money to get anyone realistic. We probably won’t even be able to spend all our cap space, like last season. So given that, I’ll take Hannan because he’s the better addition right now.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
Well, I’m not super happy with the outgoing, because I think Flash can be a hell of a player, but he hasn’t proven anything yet. I wish him the best of luck.
Hannan is a decent return. Overall, I’m pleased with the trade, but I’m hoping for the best for Tomas. Good luck in Denver.
"Don't mind WM...he's an all-around jerk."
I’d agree. I think maybe Colorado will be a better fit, he won’t be forced into a position he’s not right for and there won’t be as much pressure on him. I agree he has the ability to be a hell of a player – just not for this team. Plus I’ve always liked him (off the ice). And he’s not going to an inherently evil team, so that’s something :)
…although Wings fans might disagree with me.
If anyone needs me, I'll be at Kettler.
Right – he’s a completely expendable player on this team. It’s why I’m not too torn up, especially if this move sends Sloan down and lets us bring up Matthieu Perreault…
"Don't mind WM...he's an all-around jerk."
by Whiter Mage on Nov 30, 2010 12:44 PM EST up reply actions
I mean, who knows with this team? I don’t think we’re in terrible shape.
"Don't mind WM...he's an all-around jerk."
by Whiter Mage on Nov 30, 2010 12:48 PM EST up reply actions
I assume we’ll see MoJo as 2C, Gordo as 3C, and Steckel as 4C, with Hendricks moving from W to C when circumstances dictate.
Pledge Drive 2010-2011: SO KIDS CAN!! Help build a playground
Looking at Behind the Net stats, Hannan had the highest Corsi rating relative to quality of competition on the Avs D unit last season. He didn’t necessarily stand out as having shut down the opposition but was passable. If you slot him in as a third pairing D it seems like he’ll be more than capable.
Very, very solid move.
Clearing up the wording
Corsi Rel QComp is the same thing as Corsi QComp, except computed with Corsi Rel instead of raw Corsi scores. Important distinction to make.
"Essentially, all models are wrong, but some are useful" George E.P. Box
by Knee high to a duck on Nov 30, 2010 2:01 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, that confused me as well over the summer.
QComp = calculated with relative plus minus
Corsi QoC = calculated with raw Corsi
Corsi Rel QoC = calculated with relative Corsi (Corsi Rel)
My blog and Twitter, featuring coverage of the most unpredictable team in the NHL and where we defend Mike Green, Alex Ovechkin, and Alexander Semin until the bitter end. That is to say, when someone tries to call BS on the Corsi numbers.
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by red army line on Nov 30, 2010 2:28 PM EST up reply actions
Personally, I think that CnB article you linked about scoring chances is the best evidence of how he helps us.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
They have the link for the first 41 games of the Avs season and his scoring chances for that, too. Well worth a read.
"Essentially, all models are wrong, but some are useful" George E.P. Box
by Knee high to a duck on Nov 30, 2010 6:36 PM EST up reply actions
8 D
So now we have by my count 8 defencemen on the active roster. Who sits? Yeah, Sloan probably gets to see the press box a bit more now, but after that I’m a bit at a loss. Before the season started Erskine was the obvious answer (and I guess still is), but given the year he’s been having, I’m not so sure I want him out of the lineup.
Of course, Green and Poti have only been healthy enough to play at same time for about 4 or 5 games this year, so it may be a moot point anyway…
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by PaintDrinkingPete on Nov 30, 2010 12:40 PM EST reply actions
I think Sloaner and Ersk are the odd men out. But given the way things have been going, Ersk for sure will get his chances out there. Wouldn’t be surprise for Pots to get a day off here and there as well. Sloan, well, enjoy the big league salary and all the nachos you can eat.
Just trying to capture the spirit of the thing...
by dcsportsfan1 on Nov 30, 2010 12:43 PM EST up reply actions
Sloan and Erskine are the obvious men out here. Erskine slides back into 7th dman role on a healthy roster.
"Don't mind WM...he's an all-around jerk."
by Whiter Mage on Nov 30, 2010 12:44 PM EST up reply actions
This is the Caps defense we’re talking about. When do you remember everyone being healthy for more than 2 games in a row?
Karl Alzner + John Carlson = Carl Carlson!
It’ll happen at some point.
"Don't mind WM...he's an all-around jerk."
by Whiter Mage on Nov 30, 2010 12:51 PM EST up reply actions
I’ll be much happier to fill in Erskine than Fahey when someone goes down.
Karl Alzner + John Carlson = Carl Carlson!
Yup — exactly why a move like this was necessary…tough outlook though for a guy like Erskine coming off what is probably the best month he’s ever had.
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by PaintDrinkingPete on Nov 30, 2010 12:56 PM EST up reply actions
He knows his role. No way he expected to keep playing as much after guys got healthy. This trade, however, is probably a sign that the team might be more dinged on defense than we want to admit.
"Don't mind WM...he's an all-around jerk."
I’m just afraid that Green will need shoulder surgery. He has a long way to go to gut it out through the playoffs.
I don’t know much about shoulder surgery, I’m wondering how long the recovery time is. If it’s not that long, might it not be better to do it now and be totally recovered by the playoffs? The team can get to the playoffs without Green. Of course this is all speculation, perhaps Green’s shoulder is fine, but it doesn’t seem that way.
I’m fully expecting he will have surgery this summer. If he can make it that far.
You perhaps knew me better as "Your Nation's Capital." Same great commentary, now with 100% more transparency!
I’m kinda wondering if he should of had surgery last summer, since he came back and has hurt it 2-3 times already this season. That would indicate it was in bad shape going in. I make no claims to be a doctor, but I repeatedly injured my knee until I had my ACL reconstructed. Seems like Green is in the same pattern.
per Corey, Hannan had a no trade clause but waived it
hope he’s excited
"I would say my biggest flaw, my Achilles heel is my tireless work ethic"-Kenny Powers
Avs front office: “We want to trade you”
Hannan: “sorry, I have a no trade clause”
Avs: “It’s to Washington”
Hannan: “So no more west conference travel and I’m going to a first place team that’s in the Winter Classic? … Umm…Ok”
"I am ready for his provocations"
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by PaintDrinkingPete on Nov 30, 2010 12:43 PM EST up reply actions
Um, yeah. I looked at capgeek and saw the NMC. Think maybe Washington is an attractive place to play?
"It's always good to have vikings."
Scotty Walker, Metro Ranger, told him how awesome the orange line is and he should totally waive his NMC and give it a try.
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by RedBirdie on Nov 30, 2010 12:45 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
And how bizarre/awesome is that?
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by CapitalCentre on Nov 30, 2010 1:44 PM EST up reply actions
Probably more like:
Avs GM: I’ve got a team that wants to trade for you.
Hannan: I’m invoking my NMC to refuse to go to Edmonton.
Avs. Try DC
Hannan: As long as it’s not Edmonton, I’m good.
:)
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Hahhaa…you beat me to the Devils.
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
by twistedlogic on Nov 30, 2010 1:07 PM EST up reply actions
East Coast travel, it’s tempting. Particularly Atlantic travel.
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Yea, but New Jersey……..
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
by twistedlogic on Nov 30, 2010 1:14 PM EST up reply actions
are we talking New Jersey the state, or New Jersey the dysfunctional hockey club? :)
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Take your pick.
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
by twistedlogic on Nov 30, 2010 1:21 PM EST up reply actions
Yes
Washington Capitals 2009-10 = Quebec Nordiques 1994-95
--- D'ohboy
by MikeL-Pivonka on Nov 30, 2010 1:49 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Flash
He must be pretty devastated with this news. There’s not many teams in the league that have the caliber of talent the Caps do. At least the Avs are a good organization. Wish him the best, even if I’m happy to see him go.
If you want to survive out here, you've got to know where your towel is.
He’ll have more ice time in Colorado and a chance to thrive. I hate to say it, but it’s probably best for his career
All kidding aside, the guy was never going to crack the 1st line of the Capitals ever. He has a chance to now with Colorado, plus they’ll probably keep him on the wing where he is far, far better suited.
Many a night from yonder ivied casement, ere I went to rest,
Did I look on great Orion sloping slowly to the West.
Yep. He’s being handed an opportunity on a silver platter.
And I hear you talk the talk, but I don't see you walk the walk and I still don't believe a thing you say.
Especially in a contract year.
The bastards hung me in the spring of '25. But I am still alive.
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by YvonLabresMoustache on Nov 30, 2010 1:36 PM EST up reply actions
This is a qualitatively and quantitatively different kind of opportunity.
He’s going to have a chance to skate reliable top-6/top-3 minutes with a good/great centerman. He’s going to get PP TOI shoved down his throat at every turn. He’s going to get to play in a much simpler system that’ll cater to his best asset – speed.
If Flash can’t make it there, he won’t make it anywhere.
And I hear you talk the talk, but I don't see you walk the walk and I still don't believe a thing you say.
He got force fed PPTOI on the best PP unit last year. He got force fed ESTOI with Semin. Sure, he didn’t have a great C but playing with Semin can have the same effect. The system isn’t an issue. He wasn’t confused by BB’s system, he’s been playing it for years. What about the trade off that he’s playing with a coach that may not be so willing to overlook his deficiencies?
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
For all the crap we gave him, Flash was never in the top-4 of Caps forwards for PP TOI/G, and he never got more than 2:30-ish. Colorado will likely have him out there on the top line.
The system played by Sacco is a lot simpler. Maybe Flash will thrive in it, maybe not. But it probably can’t hurt, right?
And I hear you talk the talk, but I don't see you walk the walk and I still don't believe a thing you say.
Might not do it for cap purposes, right? If we call up MP, that’ll cut into cap room we can use to get someone at the trade deadline?
We have enough pieces to field all four lines.
yea but we’re likely going to end up trading a D this year I’d imagine. That should free up the space
Nope, up a small tick (MP $716,667 vs. Sloan’s $700k).
"DON'T SAY THAT! Please! That is the worst, most stupid thing anyone could say! Cause it quite clearly isn't "only a game." I mean if it was do you honestly think I'd care this much?"
by Bald Pollack on Nov 30, 2010 1:35 PM EST up reply actions
MP certainly figures to get some minutes given Boyd Gordon’s inability to stay healthy, unless they’re planning on playing Laich at C for a few months.
Backstrom, Laich, Gordon/Steckel/Hendricks, Steckel/Hendricks is my guess.
My blog and Twitter, featuring coverage of the most unpredictable team in the NHL and where we defend Mike Green, Alex Ovechkin, and Alexander Semin until the bitter end. That is to say, when someone tries to call BS on the Corsi numbers.
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by red army line on Nov 30, 2010 12:45 PM EST up reply actions
Oh, right. My bad.
My blog and Twitter, featuring coverage of the most unpredictable team in the NHL and where we defend Mike Green, Alex Ovechkin, and Alexander Semin until the bitter end. That is to say, when someone tries to call BS on the Corsi numbers.
If you don't know how to use Timeonice, read this.
"Numbers don't lie, they just don't agree with you"--George E. Ays
by red army line on Nov 30, 2010 12:54 PM EST up reply actions
No doubt.
My blog and Twitter, featuring coverage of the most unpredictable team in the NHL and where we defend Mike Green, Alex Ovechkin, and Alexander Semin until the bitter end. That is to say, when someone tries to call BS on the Corsi numbers.
If you don't know how to use Timeonice, read this.
"Numbers don't lie, they just don't agree with you"--George E. Ays
by red army line on Nov 30, 2010 1:02 PM EST up reply actions
Behindthenet stats
I realize this has been discussed a bit above, but here are some relevant pieces of info in image form. Looks like he’s clearly better than Erskine and Fahey thus far this season.
My blog and Twitter, featuring coverage of the most unpredictable team in the NHL and where we defend Mike Green, Alex Ovechkin, and Alexander Semin until the bitter end. That is to say, when someone tries to call BS on the Corsi numbers.
If you don't know how to use Timeonice, read this.
"Numbers don't lie, they just don't agree with you"--George E. Ays
My blog and Twitter, featuring coverage of the most unpredictable team in the NHL and where we defend Mike Green, Alex Ovechkin, and Alexander Semin until the bitter end. That is to say, when someone tries to call BS on the Corsi numbers.
If you don't know how to use Timeonice, read this.
"Numbers don't lie, they just don't agree with you"--George E. Ays
by red army line on Nov 30, 2010 12:43 PM EST up reply actions
(you can also open a new tab and drag it there)
The bastards hung me in the spring of '25. But I am still alive.
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Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Nov 30, 2010 12:44 PM EST up reply actions
HBO must be PISSED. All that tape of Flash they had for the 24/7 series is now wasted.
Just trying to capture the spirit of the thing...
It actually would be a pretty cool segment to see the guy get traded and the new guy come in.
The bastards hung me in the spring of '25. But I am still alive.
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Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Nov 30, 2010 12:46 PM EST up reply actions
Perhaps this trade was staged for dramatic effect…
Just trying to capture the spirit of the thing...
by dcsportsfan1 on Nov 30, 2010 12:48 PM EST up reply actions
oh, no, compelling mini-story leading up to December!
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so what…they had to have known a trade was possible, besides they don’t air it till like mid December.
~~~ R0cK D@ R3D ~~~
by Chaz-Capapalooza on Nov 30, 2010 1:04 PM EST up reply actions
zz
Where was Colorado just playing? Will he be in the lineup tomorrow in the Loo?
The bastards hung me in the spring of '25. But I am still alive.
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Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Nov 30, 2010 12:45 PM EST reply actions
Colorado has been at home (epic 7-4 thrashing of Minnesota) they play tonight at home as well.
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Just read the club’s press release.
http://capitals.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=544938
Hannan was a first-round pick by the Sharks. So the Caps are adding yet another 1st rounder to the roster.
You perhaps knew me better as "Your Nation's Capital." Same great commentary, now with 100% more transparency!
I like this...
FLASHBACK: Alex Ovechkin said Scott Hannan is the “toughest defenseman to play against.”
http://goo.gl/r6VaW
"I am ready for his provocations"
twitter
by PaintDrinkingPete on Nov 30, 2010 12:49 PM EST reply actions 5 recs
Rec'd
Awesome pull.
"Hockey is my life, wine is my passion." -- Igor Larionov
by Scott in Shaw on Nov 30, 2010 2:29 PM EST up reply actions
Thanks. This is important information for my NHL 11 file.
"Don't mind WM...he's an all-around jerk."
by Whiter Mage on Nov 30, 2010 12:51 PM EST up reply actions
23
Just trying to capture the spirit of the thing...
by dcsportsfan1 on Nov 30, 2010 12:51 PM EST up reply actions
Juice’s old number.
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
by twistedlogic on Nov 30, 2010 1:09 PM EST up reply actions
Somewhere, Bob Gould just dropped a single tear.
The bastards hung me in the spring of '25. But I am still alive.
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by YvonLabresMoustache on Nov 30, 2010 1:38 PM EST up reply actions
FWIW – full list of the #23’s thus far.
Blair Stewart 1975-1978
Mike Bloom 1975-1975
Doug Patey 1978-1978
Gary Rissling 1979-1979
Wes Jarvis 1980-1980
Claude Noel 1980-1980
Dennis Ververgaert 1981-1981
Jim McGeough 1982-1982
Todd Bidner 1982-1982
Bobby Gould 1982-1989
Rob Murray 1990-1991
Paul MacDermid 1992-1993
Kevin Kaminski 1994-1994
Brian Bellows 1999-1999
Miika Elomo 2000-2000
Trent Whitfield 2001-2004
Ivan Ciernik 2002-2002
Ivan Majesky 2006-2006
Milan Jurcina 2007-2010
Life With Spidey -- a blog about sports, travel, work, family and fun.
Representing Caps fandom in the Gateway to the West.
Yikes. Look at that line of poo from 00 to the present, especially from 00-06
The bastards hung me in the spring of '25. But I am still alive.
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Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Nov 30, 2010 1:46 PM EST up reply actions
How dare you insult His Majesty Ivan Majesky
"I speak in .gifs, snappy retorts and curse words."
by Steck It Out on Nov 30, 2010 1:47 PM EST up reply actions
I’m sorry. I couldn’t think of a word off the top of my head worse than “poo”
The bastards hung me in the spring of '25. But I am still alive.
Box Seats Blog
Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Nov 30, 2010 1:48 PM EST up reply actions
Excrement?
"I speak in .gifs, snappy retorts and curse words."
by Steck It Out on Nov 30, 2010 1:55 PM EST up reply actions
He was on the ice for “the goal,” paired with Witt.
Life With Spidey -- a blog about sports, travel, work, family and fun.
Representing Caps fandom in the Gateway to the West.
Isn’t it pretty much -
poo – Gould – poo – Bellows – poo – Jurcina
Life With Spidey -- a blog about sports, travel, work, family and fun.
Representing Caps fandom in the Gateway to the West.
I think that Claude Noel was the first one we had here.
The bastards hung me in the spring of '25. But I am still alive.
Box Seats Blog
Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Nov 30, 2010 1:49 PM EST up reply actions
This Bob Gould fan is thrilled
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Dec 1, 2010 2:53 AM EST up reply actions
Adrian Dater’s report card for Scott Hannan (his Rink Wrap, if you will):
http://blogs.denverpost.com/avs/2010/05/09/final-player-grades-scott-hannan-b/3594/
You perhaps knew me better as "Your Nation's Capital." Same great commentary, now with 100% more transparency!
That was 2007. Does he still look like that? From the photo above, I think he resembles Knubs.
John Carlson - Glory follows him.
Six Beers Too Many Fantasy Team - BizNasty's Hobo Rodeo
Ha, I had that thought as well.
Don't worry about getting to your point, I'm going to live forever.
by SeattleCapsFan on Nov 30, 2010 12:56 PM EST up reply actions
oh. my. god. It’s like Mike Knuble’s long lost uber-stoner twin has been discovered.
Pledge Drive 2010-2011: SO KIDS CAN!! Help build a playground
Sorry ladies, if you check out his NHL profile, looks like the locks of love have been trimmed.
"And then they’ll look at guys in my situation, that could play three good games in a row and have one bad shift, and they’ll say, ‘Well, that’s why he’s been in the minor leagues his whole career.'" --Matt Hendricks
While we already suspected that McPhee was trying to deal Flash, this signifies to me that they’re serious about tweaking this team’s makeup for the playoffs.
Welp.
My reasonable side says that this is a good trade for both sides. Flash wasn’t producing here; I think a fresh start could help him out, as I think he can be a 20-25 goal guy in the right atmosphere. We had an excess of wingers and not enough D depth; playing Fahey and Sloan every night ain’t gonna cut it.
Hannan is a solid D-man who should help out on the depth chart. I’ve heard that he hasn’t exactly lived up to his billing in Denver, but we’ll see how it goes. A Poti – Hannan pairing would be intriguing.
While I may not have been his biggest fan, I wish Tomas Fleischmann all the luck in the world in Denver.
Yet, my fanboy side says…
"I speak in .gifs, snappy retorts and curse words."
I think Hannan came into Colorado with expectations that far exceeded his ability – he was one of the “big names” of that summer’s free agent frenzy and got a contract that reflected that.
If anyone needs me, I'll be at Kettler.
Indeed. As Adrian Dater said, he was a solid player in his own right, but didn’t really live up to the billing.
"I speak in .gifs, snappy retorts and curse words."
by Steck It Out on Nov 30, 2010 1:33 PM EST up reply actions
can’t blame a player for signing a contract when teams offer stupid amounts of money.
Pledge Drive 2010-2011: SO KIDS CAN!! Help build a playground
Hasn’t that been the mantra for, y’know, all professional sports and free agency lately?
"I speak in .gifs, snappy retorts and curse words."
by Steck It Out on Nov 30, 2010 1:36 PM EST up reply actions
Contracts like that are what get teams into cap trouble, Colorado excepted, apparently.
"It's always good to have vikings."
but Colorado’s made some pretty strange decisions. Not bringing back Hendricks for league minimum?
Pledge Drive 2010-2011: SO KIDS CAN!! Help build a playground
I got a vibe that he was looking for BIG raise and the Avs didn’t think he was worth it. No idea what big meant, but I’d have to guess at least $1 million. Don’t know if he simply tried to negotiate with them for so long that others had already filled out their rosters, or no one else was really interested. You won’t see that happen this coming summer.
"It's always good to have vikings."
Hockey News Adam Proteau says Avs win trade because he “asked an NHL coach” about Hannon last year and the coach rolled his eyes and said “nowhere close to the player he was.”
Did he ask any NHL coaches about Flash? Did he take into account the various needs of each team? Flash is a good player, but since he’s not able to take on the 2C role or score goals consistently, he’s not really needed here. Defensive depth is needed here, which is what the Caps addressed with this trade.
Just trying to capture the spirit of the thing...
I don’t care (ok, I do) whether Hannan is quite the player he was, because that isn’t the relevant trade off here. It is the difference between John Erskine’s 15 minutes a night (or Tyler Sloan’s 12) and Hannan’s 16-18, which would allow Boudreau to manage the time of the other defensemen a little better.
If you've read this far...seek help.
by ThePeerless on Nov 30, 2010 1:10 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
That’s my feeling exactly. Hannan can play a decent amount of minutes so we don’t burn out Green or put too much pressure on the kids, not to mention we have depth in defense.
I was very uncomfortable with our defense situation whenever two guys were out with injury.
Rocking the Red for the Caps since 1975. Rocking the Red on additional fronts as well.
The day I believe a THN columnist is the day Flash scores 50-in-50.
You had me at no problem.
by Ninjak on Nov 30, 2010 1:35 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Now’s about the time that Flash goes off. I think he could have a very nice season in Colorado. 20-25 goals is not out of the realm. I really like the trade though. Washington doesn’t need any more soft snipers. I feel like this shores up our D a bit more, and we can wait to the deadline to make another move.
Late to this party
But…
Da da da, dadada, dadada daaaaaa….WOO-HOOOO.
Patron saint of quality footwear.
Why does this not surprise me?
cmasisak22 George McPhee says he has been talking to Greg Sherman about a deal for Hannan since August.
"It's always good to have vikings."
Would have been considerate of GMGM to let us know that earlier. Guy is really rude.
Just trying to capture the spirit of the thing...
by dcsportsfan1 on Nov 30, 2010 1:05 PM EST up reply actions
Petulant, even.
And I hear you talk the talk, but I don't see you walk the walk and I still don't believe a thing you say.
Just. Plain. Rude.
Release the Mackan!
by Killer_Carlson on Nov 30, 2010 1:23 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
More from Corey:
cmasisak22 Me: “Depending on who you ask, #Caps have needed this guy for 3-4 years. How long have you been after this type of guy?” GMGM: “3-4 years.”
"It's always good to have vikings."
by gfcaps fan on Nov 30, 2010 1:06 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
I wonder if he gave that evil little smile of his after he said “3-4 years”
Pledge Drive 2010-2011: SO KIDS CAN!! Help build a playground
....
You perhaps knew me better as "Your Nation's Capital." Same great commentary, now with 100% more transparency!
by EmilyB on Nov 30, 2010 1:23 PM EST up reply actions 7 recs
Whoever is in the red tie in the middle is slowly eating his own face.
Many a night from yonder ivied casement, ere I went to rest,
Did I look on great Orion sloping slowly to the West.
by sydtron on Nov 30, 2010 1:27 PM EST up reply actions 5 recs
Have to like this move for both teams. Avs get a winger when they’re short on them, and the Caps get a guy who can eat some minutes, has experience, and is a clear upgrade over Sloan and Erskine.
If I had to declare a winner, it’d be Washington, simply because Hannan is significantly more valuable to this roster than Fleischmann.
simply because Hannan is significantly more valuable to this roster than Fleischmann.
While I sorta agree with you, I think your analysis is a bit flawed.
The question for the Avs is: is Flash > Hannan for their roster? The answer is yes, and let’s say it’s by quantity “X.”
The question for the Caps is: is Hannan > Flash for their roster? The answer is yes, and let’s say it’s by quantity “Y.”
The question of who “won” the trade is in determining whether X is greater than Y or vice-versa. That’ll take some time.
In the meantime, both teams got better.
And I hear you talk the talk, but I don't see you walk the walk and I still don't believe a thing you say.
Right, I think we’re really saying the same thing here. I said I like it for both teams, and I do. I just think that over the long term, when the playoffs roll around, Hannan will be more important to the Caps than Flash will to the Avs.
But we’ll see.
by Chris Burton on Nov 30, 2010 1:15 PM EST up reply actions
The main difference is that if/when COL gets healthy then that X quantity is going to decrease, potentially significantly.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
True. With Mueller, though, that’s a big freakin’ if.
And I hear you talk the talk, but I don't see you walk the walk and I still don't believe a thing you say.
But Stewart and Galiardi are going to come back. Yip too, right?
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
They’ll come back, but maybe not until well after New Year’s. That could crush the Avs’ chances of making the playoffs.
And I hear you talk the talk, but I don't see you walk the walk and I still don't believe a thing you say.
Now that we're done picking the confetti out of our hair...
…who’ll be the new whipping boy at Japers’ Rink?
My guess is Poti.
We're Hüsker Dü and we're on MTV. Who are you, and what are you on?
by bilspacecadet on Nov 30, 2010 1:05 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
Nah. GMGM got rid of Flash and Sloan in one fell swoop. Left us jerks in a tough spot.
My answer? Whoever produces least relative to expectations/talent, as always.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
philarmy votes for Sarge
LET'S GO CAPS!!!
by Elliotte on Nov 30, 2010 1:07 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
why are you so mean to Becca’s car? That poor little car never did anything to hurt you.
Pledge Drive 2010-2011: SO KIDS CAN!! Help build a playground
Hey, I wasn’t saying Poti should be the whipping boy, just that he will. I was the Official Tommy Fleischmann Bus Driver—never understood why he was the Japers’ Rink Whipping Boy….
We're Hüsker Dü and we're on MTV. Who are you, and what are you on?
by bilspacecadet on Nov 30, 2010 1:37 PM EST up reply actions
Fehr. You could make a good case that he’s been getting worse since 08-09.
My blog and Twitter, featuring coverage of the most unpredictable team in the NHL and where we defend Mike Green, Alex Ovechkin, and Alexander Semin until the bitter end. That is to say, when someone tries to call BS on the Corsi numbers.
If you don't know how to use Timeonice, read this.
"Numbers don't lie, they just don't agree with you"--George E. Ays
by red army line on Nov 30, 2010 1:17 PM EST up reply actions
disagree. Last year was Fehr’s best season, imo.
Pledge Drive 2010-2011: SO KIDS CAN!! Help build a playground
Maybe. In 08-09 he faced tough competition with weak teammates and was one of the top 10 Corsi rel players in the league (higher than Ovechkin even IIRC, but lower than Fedorov). Last season, his Corsi Rel was high but not as high, and his competition was easier.
My blog and Twitter, featuring coverage of the most unpredictable team in the NHL and where we defend Mike Green, Alex Ovechkin, and Alexander Semin until the bitter end. That is to say, when someone tries to call BS on the Corsi numbers.
If you don't know how to use Timeonice, read this.
"Numbers don't lie, they just don't agree with you"--George E. Ays
by red army line on Nov 30, 2010 1:39 PM EST up reply actions
high puck clearing percentage!
The bastards hung me in the spring of '25. But I am still alive.
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Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Nov 30, 2010 1:40 PM EST up reply actions
Hey, Sloan is still on the roster….
Washington Capitals 2009-10 = Quebec Nordiques 1994-95
--- D'ohboy
by MikeL-Pivonka on Nov 30, 2010 1:53 PM EST up reply actions
000
So is Hendricks
The bastards hung me in the spring of '25. But I am still alive.
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by YvonLabresMoustache on Nov 30, 2010 1:55 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
He’s awesome, so he isn’t the option.
I tweet far too much. Follow me!
Pleasure and pain, though directly opposite are contrived to be constant companions.
I know. I was just looking for an opportunity to bring him up so I could put up the picture.
The bastards hung me in the spring of '25. But I am still alive.
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Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Nov 30, 2010 1:58 PM EST up reply actions
Thought so :P
I tweet far too much. Follow me!
Pleasure and pain, though directly opposite are contrived to be constant companions.
Stop dreaming about Brad Richards, then
#Caps been taking since Aug. about Hannan deal. McPhee says he had $3.8 in cap room. A $1.3 diff. leaves them them w $2.5 for deadline deal
"I speak in .gifs, snappy retorts and curse words."
Which is more than enough for Richards at the deadline, no?
"Don't mind WM...he's an all-around jerk."
Oh…um…well…derp.
"I speak in .gifs, snappy retorts and curse words."
by Steck It Out on Nov 30, 2010 1:11 PM EST up reply actions
Don’t discount the impact this deal might have on goaltending. If you assume that 2C now becomes the priority (and I would), then the Caps would not be in the market for goaltending help (Brodeur, Vokoun,or the ghost of Georges Vezina). They’re all in with the kids.
If you've read this far...seek help.
Yes, this definitely takes care (for now) of the most glaring hole. Only quibble I would make with this trade is its timing. If they had waited, they could have banked more salary cap room to add the possible 2C and G upgrades at the deadline.
but if I’m reading D’oh’s posts correctly, the Avs forwards have been decimated by injury. They need a healthy body, and that may have been a factor in the timing of this trade.
Pledge Drive 2010-2011: SO KIDS CAN!! Help build a playground
On the flip side, this gives Hannan some time to get accustomed to the system as well as an evaluation period to see if he’s a good fit for us. I like giving him time to integrate into the system and having everyone on the team get accustomed to him.
As GMGM just said on NHL Live. He’s not trading any of them, including the kids still in junior.
A year from now, it would be interesting to hear/see the answer to that question.
"It's always good to have vikings."
Why would he say he wants to trade them even if he did?
Think twice before you speak, and then you may be able to say something more insulting than if you spoke right out at once.
He wouldn’t, but it was the way he said it. He just isn’t usually that emphatic and forthcoming. But in a year or two, he’s going to have to trade somebody. If they’re all good, there’s not enough places for them to play. Varly and Neuvy are 22. Holtby is 21. Grubauer and Anderson are 18. DeMichiel may never move beyond Hershey, but he’s in the system. That’s a lot of goalies.
"It's always good to have vikings."
2.37 is PLENTY of money for deadline deals. Caps would only be on the hook for 21.5% of the cap hit of the player they’re bringing back in a trade, because there are only 40 NHL season days left after the trade deadline.
Because now I can justify browsing and commenting during the work day with the argument that I am promoting my business.
by Sombrero Guy on Nov 30, 2010 1:26 PM EST up reply actions
Wow. Come back from lunch to this. And I was just asking D’oh in the clips thread this morning if he thought Hannan was the D-man the Avs would flip
I poured spot remover on my dog. Now he's gone.
Hahaha. Yeah. I was hoping for Quincey. I’m mildly surprised that it’s Hannan, to be honest. Given the Avs’ youth and his NTC, I thought we might see Quincey, but I think the Caps wanted a stay-at-home type.
And I hear you talk the talk, but I don't see you walk the walk and I still don't believe a thing you say.
I would have preferrred Quincey also. But I can live with Hannan, I like the stay at home Bob Rouse type D-men. I was hoping for Greg Zanon for so long but am ok with this.
I poured spot remover on my dog. Now he's gone.
by Rather Bengt on Nov 30, 2010 1:20 PM EST up reply actions
If I hear the words Greg Zanon again I’m going to hurl. I wanted the guy too, back when he was available, but I don’t see him as available now. Then again, if he magically showed up on our roster, I wouldn’t cry at all.
"Don't mind WM...he's an all-around jerk."
Greg Zanon! Did you hurl?
"And then they’ll look at guys in my situation, that could play three good games in a row and have one bad shift, and they’ll say, ‘Well, that’s why he’s been in the minor leagues his whole career.'" --Matt Hendricks
Not yet. Currently my plethora of other ailments is keeping the food down.
"Don't mind WM...he's an all-around jerk."
GREG ZANON GREG ZANON GREG ZANON
I tweet far too much. Follow me!
Pleasure and pain, though directly opposite are contrived to be constant companions.
Quincey was out with a concussion earlier this year. Could have an impact later?
Life With Spidey -- a blog about sports, travel, work, family and fun.
Representing Caps fandom in the Gateway to the West.
Soooo, what number will he wear? He was 22 in Colorado.
~~~ R0cK D@ R3D ~~~
by Chaz-Capapalooza on Nov 30, 2010 1:10 PM EST reply actions
I think someone said 23 above
I poured spot remover on my dog. Now he's gone.
by Rather Bengt on Nov 30, 2010 1:11 PM EST up reply actions
How much is this salary cap hit going to affect Semin’s chances to get extension? I’m afraid very much.
Cup, please.
Hannan is in the last year of his current deal. A Semin extension would not take effect until next season. Unless the Caps are contemplating signing Hannan past this year (and they would have to kick the tires, at least, on such a possibility), the two are unrelated.
If you've read this far...seek help.
Which is probably best in the long run. I think GMGM will want to see if Semin can actually step it up down the stretch when it REALLY matters (not that he hasn’t).
Besides, I think work on an extension will be an added distratction, and we don’t want that since Semin is playing so well right now.
"I speak in .gifs, snappy retorts and curse words."
by Steck It Out on Nov 30, 2010 1:16 PM EST up reply actions
Unless the Caps are contemplating signing Hannan past this year
That’s exactly the point. Imaging that Hannah comes back to the sea level from his mountains, inhales more oxygen and performs top notch. Scary.
Cup, please.
Sure, but when you have every player going to every team, at some time, somewhere in your archives, it’s not too hard to be right.
We're Hüsker Dü and we're on MTV. Who are you, and what are you on?
by bilspacecadet on Nov 30, 2010 1:27 PM EST up reply actions
Wait a second
TSN says Hannan had to waive a NMC to come here. Does that mean he’d have to waive it again if GMGM wants to use him in another trade?
I’m pretty sure this is the case. I’m also pretty sure that doesn’t matter since he’s a UFA at the end of the year.
"Don't mind WM...he's an all-around jerk."
by Whiter Mage on Nov 30, 2010 1:16 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Right- UFA- but still, what if he doesn’t fit, it’d be nice to have the option to deal him at the deadline, especially since the Caps have some extra D now
Yes. But as he is a UFA after this season the chances of GMGM trying to trade him with less than 3 months of time in DC seems unlikely.
Nope. The only way it can go away is if it hasn’t yet gone into effect, and the new team decides not to honor it.
The clause is never “waived.” The player merely agrees to the trade.
Not crazy about the value
I’m 100% supportive of moving Flash for a D, but at this point in his career Hannan isn’t much more than a depth Dman. Definitely not a top 4 guy on a good defense.
While GVT is only one metric, last year Flash was worth +9 while Hannan was worth 2.3. That’s basically the same as Corvo. There was a lot of excitement around here for the Corvo trade, while I was in a tiny minority that never supported as Corvo’s hype far exceeds his play. Hannan is a slightly better defender than Erskine but w/o the fists. He’s way worse than Poti.
I’ll never know but I can’t help but wonder if we couldn’t have gotten more for Flash who, as soft as he is, is pretty high skill player.
Hannan is a slightly better defender than Erskine
As long as he’s better than Sloan and Fahey, and keeps them off the VC ice, I’m good.
"I speak in .gifs, snappy retorts and curse words."
by Steck It Out on Nov 30, 2010 1:17 PM EST up reply actions
Yep, that’s the clear payoff on this trade, but the key question is whether we could have gotten a better D for Flash. Ignoring our need, Flash is clearly the more valuable player. Flash was the equivalent value of Mark Staal or Markov, Kaberle or Rob Blake last year. He’s still in his peak. We didn’t get much in return for him.
If the Rangers had moved Mark Staal for Tomas Fleischmann, Glen Sather would have fired himself.
"Don't mind WM...he's an all-around jerk."
Yeah, not even close to Staal or Markov.
My blog and Twitter, featuring coverage of the most unpredictable team in the NHL and where we defend Mike Green, Alex Ovechkin, and Alexander Semin until the bitter end. That is to say, when someone tries to call BS on the Corsi numbers.
If you don't know how to use Timeonice, read this.
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by red army line on Nov 30, 2010 1:31 PM EST up reply actions
Or Weber.
/Freudian slip’d
"I speak in .gifs, snappy retorts and curse words."
by Steck It Out on Nov 30, 2010 1:33 PM EST up reply actions
yeah, no way we’d have gotten staal for flash. My point is that last year (the #s I have for GVT), there were 128 NHL defensemen more valuable than Hannon but approx less than/equal to Flash’s value. Trading Flash for a D = good idea. Trading Flash for Hannon seems like a good idea poorly executed.
Given the Corvo trade, I think we have some reason to be skeptical of GMGM’s in-season veteran Dman scouting abilities.
1st off, GVT doesn’t do a very good job capturing defensive contributions. There’s pretty solid agreement on that and Hannan’s value is almost entirely defensive.
2nd, comparing across teams and across positions, which is what GVT is supposed to do, kind of falls apart. It’s QComp agnostic, it’s QTeam agnostic, it’s Zone Start agnostic.
"Essentially, all models are wrong, but some are useful" George E.P. Box
by Knee high to a duck on Nov 30, 2010 2:11 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Given the Corvo trade
Was the Corvo trade horrible because the player was awful, or was it horrible because he played like crap?
I still think it’s the latter. Corvo doesn’t get 25m+/game because he’s hot garbage on ice. He was a substantial talent upgrade over the other healthy defensemen on the roster and represented a hedge against the possibility that Green would get injured.
And I hear you talk the talk, but I don't see you walk the walk and I still don't believe a thing you say.
If the Corvo trade had been made this early in the season, and he had time to learn the system/get comfortable, it might have looked a lot better. He was a guy that, at least to my eyes, was pretty clearly not playing to his best because of uncertainty in the system.
He looked to me like a guy that wasn’t playing his best because he didn’t want to fight for a single puck.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
He looked to me like a guy who A) didn’t care, B) was still injured, or C) a bit of both.
And I hear you talk the talk, but I don't see you walk the walk and I still don't believe a thing you say.
Yeah, Corvo played with absolutely no heart with the Caps. It wasn’t particularly representative of his play before or after his tenure in DC.
Release the Mackan!
by Killer_Carlson on Nov 30, 2010 2:43 PM EST up reply actions
Go back to the threads at the time. I called that trade as a loser immediately based on Corvo’s lousy play. You can apply whatever revisionist fantasy you want, but this board blew up with praise for the deal and those few of us who questioned it took a lot of flack. Sounds familiar.
It’s not revisionist history, it’s an acknowledgment that there’s a difference between process and outcome. We needed Corvo to play like 75% of the player that he had been in Carolina. Unfortunately, we got 50%. That missing 25% was, at least to my eyes, unforeseeable.
And I hear you talk the talk, but I don't see you walk the walk and I still don't believe a thing you say.
Then we’re agreed my eyes were better, since I called it at the time and you didn’t.
Enjoy your excitement with Hannan. I hope I’m wrong (certainly wouldn’t be the first time), and he turns out to be even very good.
We don’t need him to be very good. Adequate will do.
The Artist Formerly Known as CP2Devil.
Links guy at Five For Howling.
Congrats on calling one right. I also called that the Caps would trade Flash or Fehr to Colorado for a D. I also called that they Nylander contract would be an albatross. I also called that that Iraq surge would “work.”
Do I get a cookie?
Seriously, assessing things based on outcomes and not process is a bad way of going about things. The Caps were thin at D last year, particularly of the puck-moving variety. Both Poti and Green had suffered some injuries and Carlson was 19. Corvo was available for essentially a 2nd-round pick and a busted prospect. That’s a good/great deal for a guy who plays #1/2 minutes, who’s familiar with the system and can play in all three phases of the game.
That it didn’t work out is more on Corvo than on GMGM.
And I hear you talk the talk, but I don't see you walk the walk and I still don't believe a thing you say.
by D'ohboy on Nov 30, 2010 3:26 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Thank you Captain Hindsight
Because now I can justify browsing and commenting during the work day with the argument that I am promoting my business.
by Sombrero Guy on Nov 30, 2010 3:29 PM EST up reply actions 6 recs
for those who missed the 3 episode storyline...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cY_oKve-bH0
Because now I can justify browsing and commenting during the work day with the argument that I am promoting my business.
by Sombrero Guy on Nov 30, 2010 3:29 PM EST up reply actions
Sure, you called it. That doesn’t change the fact that Corvo played worse for the Caps than he did with the Canes before or after the trade. Reasonable minds can (and did) disagree with regards to whether his normal game is something the Caps needed, but what he showed with the Caps was not his normal game.
I liked the trade not because I though Corvo was incredible, but because it was a low risk high reward move. The Caps needed depth at D and could have used some extra offense from the point. Corvo helped both of those, and the Caps gave up next to nothing to get him. Corvo wasn’t as good as I or the Caps would have hoped, but the Caps wouldn’t have won the MTL series without Corvo and they didn’t blow their future in the process. It was a shot that didn’t work out, but didn’t hurt the Caps so much that I’d consider it a big loser of a trade.
And get off your cross. You aren’t taking flack because you don’t like the trade. You are taking flack for throwing out a ridiculously flawed stat as your only support for your argument. Wanna tell me why the Caps are better with Flash in the playoffs than Hannan? Go for it. But if you are going to say it’s a bad trade because GVT says Flash’s real value is comparable to Marc Staal’s you best be expecting some push back.
Release the Mackan!
by Killer_Carlson on Nov 30, 2010 2:58 PM EST up reply actions 7 recs
It was bad because they traded for a type of player that they didn’t need. I never understood what Corvo’s role was to be in DC relative to the other players already on the roster. You don’t have that question with Hannan.
You would think Sather would have done that after Wade Redden and Michal Roszival…
Washington Capitals 2009-10 = Quebec Nordiques 1994-95
--- D'ohboy
by MikeL-Pivonka on Nov 30, 2010 1:58 PM EST up reply actions
And this is why stats are, at times, absolutely terrible at determining a player’s value.
The guy is Peter Schumpmaker. Lord knows what a schump is, but you can bet your bippy his ancestors made them. What he's doing is far worse than crafting fine schumps.
by Steckel Me Elmo on Nov 30, 2010 1:33 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Oh, I see. Because you watch all teams every game and therefore you have some better ability to judge relative value across players, positions and teams?
If you don’t think Flash is a more valuable NHL’er than Hannon, then you are blinded by your Flash hate. Proof will be in the pudding this offseason in the contracts each player gets.
What??? Since when does the contract a player earns validate his worth? Derek Boogaard is getting paid obscene amounts of money to be stupid, while Marcel Goc is the MVP of the Nashville Predators at barely 700,000.
Scott Hannan, today, is a better NHL player than Tomas Fleischmann.
by Chris Burton on Nov 30, 2010 1:38 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
My comment had nothing to do with Hannan’s GVT value and everything to do with Flash being equal value to Staal, Markov, Kaberle and Blake. The notion that the previous statement is true is absolute babytown frolics.
The guy is Peter Schumpmaker. Lord knows what a schump is, but you can bet your bippy his ancestors made them. What he's doing is far worse than crafting fine schumps.
by Steckel Me Elmo on Nov 30, 2010 1:39 PM EST up reply actions
No, because GVT doesn’t pass the sniff test comparing across positions and teams. Do you honestly think a metric that tells you that Fleischmann is more valuable than Marc Staal is the be all end all of value? If you do you are blinded by your Flash love or your need for a quick and simple solution to evaluating players when there isn’t one.
Release the Mackan!
by Killer_Carlson on Nov 30, 2010 1:40 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Sometimes this board is fun. Sometimes not.
Here’s my point, which apparently is too subtle or complex for some:
We need better D. Flash is our most valuable, easily tradeable asset. Flash is a legit 2nd line winger. Flash for a #4 D man (i.e., top 100 in the league) is a fair trade. That’s not what we got.
Just wait until you see Hannan play.
Then who do you think the Caps could have got for a 2nd line winger with defensive liabilities who will be a FA at the end of the season?
The Artist Formerly Known as CP2Devil.
Links guy at Five For Howling.
If you’re asking me to name a specific player, I obviously have no idea. Like I said above, it’s possible this is the absolute max value we could have gotten for Flash. In that case, I think the trade is something of a close call (as in, whether I would have done it). But my completely made up suspicion is that we could have gotten more but GMGM id’d the guy he liked and overpaid for him.
What I see on the board is the perfectly natural excitement around (1) shipping out a widely loathed (including by me) player in exchange for (2) much needed depth in a position of need.
Hannan is clearly better than Sloan and Haney. Like I said, I think he’s a bit better than Erskine although I like Erskine’s willingness to throw down. The question I’ll never have an answer to is is he the best we could do, b/c I’m not very excited about him.
Here’s hoping I’m wrong and that he rocks.
Hannan is clearly better than Sloan and Haney. Like I said, I think he’s a bit better than Erskine although I like Erskine’s willingness to throw down. The question I’ll never have an answer to is is he the best we could do, b/c I’m not very excited about him.
I agree with all of this. I’m just a little more skeptical than you that Flash had a higher trade value, considering his play this year, his benching in the playoffs last year, his soft reputation, and his expiring contract. I find it very believable that this was the best McPhee could have gotten for him.
Straight up trade for a guy who hasn’t been working for the Caps to a style of player the Capitals need, but not need so much as to press him into minutes he’s not able to handle.
He’s a top 4D on a lot of teams and he’ll play 2nd/3rd pairing minutes here. He’s also played more games than pretty much all our defensemen combined outside of Poti so that brings an element of mentoring that is also needed.
It’s a stellar move, period. Even if it doesn’t pan out GMGM had to pull the trigger on this.
Many a night from yonder ivied casement, ere I went to rest,
Did I look on great Orion sloping slowly to the West.
Let’s just say I’m not surprised you couldn’t come up with a name. In my estimation this is probably the best GMGM could have gotten for Flash. And it appears it took the Avs to get more desperate to get the deal finally done. No NHL GM worth his salt is going to trade a true top 4 d-man for a guy like Flash, especially given that he’s a FA.
The Artist Formerly Known as CP2Devil.
Links guy at Five For Howling.
Let’s just say… making up names would be a waste of time. You seem to think it takes some kind of ability.
It would. You would have to look around the league and find a guy who met whatever criteria you judged to be acceptable for fair value for Flash.
The Artist Formerly Known as CP2Devil.
Links guy at Five For Howling.
Uh, wrong. I’d have to know who might actually be, you know, AVAILABLE in a trade. That’s the only criteria that matters.
Almost anyone in the league is available for the right price.
The Artist Formerly Known as CP2Devil.
Links guy at Five For Howling.
So are you essentially saying, everybody’s got a price? And everybody’s gonna pay?
The bastards hung me in the spring of '25. But I am still alive.
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Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Nov 30, 2010 3:04 PM EST up reply actions
Yup. I am the Million Dollar Man.
/yells to Virgil to get over here.
The Artist Formerly Known as CP2Devil.
Links guy at Five For Howling.
How about just ignore availability for a second and mention guys that you think would be fair. Availability didn’t stop you from mentioning Markov or Staal.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
Kimmo Timonen almost matches on GVT! He’s totally available.
Erik Johnson, too!
Ooo! Chris Phillips — that’d be a steal for the Sens by GVT; Philips was only a 9.1, Flash was a 9.9!
Oh hey, here’s the real prize; Ryan Suter clocks in at 8.8. Nashville’d pull the trigger on that one in a heartbeat, they’d be fools not to.
"Essentially, all models are wrong, but some are useful" George E.P. Box
by Knee high to a duck on Nov 30, 2010 7:17 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
You're point isn't too subtle
Just not well defended.
Flash is not as valuable as a legit top 4 D. He’s a streaky winger who disappears in the playoffs – that kills his value for playoff teams. He’s a UFA so that kills his value for rebuilding teams. What, other than GVT, leads you to believe that Flash is more valuable for Hannan, especially for the Caps?
Just wait until you see Hannan play.
Why do I have to wait, we have GVT to tell us who’s better!
(I’ve watched plenty of Hannan, and I’d trade Flash for Hannan 100 times out of 100)
Release the Mackan!
by Killer_Carlson on Nov 30, 2010 2:03 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Except we were seriously in need of a depth Dman. With Green/Schultz and Carlson/Alzner healthy, we’ve got a solid top 4. But past that things get really sketchy (especially with Poti seemingly always injured this year).
Don't worry about getting to your point, I'm going to live forever.
by SeattleCapsFan on Nov 30, 2010 1:18 PM EST up reply actions
GVT undervalues D, and it looks like Hannan was logging the tough minutes, and plenty of ‘em, for the Avs last year. By TOI I guess he’s been worse or the other Avs have been better this season.
My blog and Twitter, featuring coverage of the most unpredictable team in the NHL and where we defend Mike Green, Alex Ovechkin, and Alexander Semin until the bitter end. That is to say, when someone tries to call BS on the Corsi numbers.
If you don't know how to use Timeonice, read this.
"Numbers don't lie, they just don't agree with you"--George E. Ays
by red army line on Nov 30, 2010 1:19 PM EST up reply actions
Tom Awad, its creator, said so. I don’t have a link, but it comes up every now and then.
My blog and Twitter, featuring coverage of the most unpredictable team in the NHL and where we defend Mike Green, Alex Ovechkin, and Alexander Semin until the bitter end. That is to say, when someone tries to call BS on the Corsi numbers.
If you don't know how to use Timeonice, read this.
"Numbers don't lie, they just don't agree with you"--George E. Ays
by red army line on Nov 30, 2010 1:32 PM EST up reply actions
Not true
Now that’s either faulty memory or bad intent on your part. What Awad has observed fairly recently is that either GVT undervalues defensemen or GMs waaay overpaid for them this offseason. That’s in no way the equivalent of what you’re asserting. That’s an open-minded empiricists way of saying, My analytics may not be perfect but there’s a striking gap between them and what GMs are doing.
The sports world is replete with GMs and owners massively overvaluing assets.
And since GMs decide market value and not advanced stats, shouldn’t the GMs matter more than GVT when considering a player’s trade value? I don’t hate stats, but the faith you are putting in a single stat is absurd.
Release the Mackan!
by Killer_Carlson on Nov 30, 2010 1:43 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Actually I caveated my statement with it’s one stat. The point is the massive gap in value, not the absolute comparables.
What’s absurd is your inability to have a rational discussion. Whatever. The trade is done and we’re stuck w/ Hannan, just as we were with Corvo last year. Bet you loved that trade, too.
the huge difference being, of course, that it’s November and there’s still time to make another deal before the deadline if the fit sucks, whereas Corvo was taken at the last minute.
"I don't care about winning the division or winning the President's Trophy. I just care about getting to the playoffs." --GMGM
Wait, I thought my post was a pretty rational response to your comment. Sure there is a little extra snark thrown in at the end, but I’m not the only one jumping into that pool.
You are claiming that there is a massive gap in value using GVT. I think GVT is a poor measure of value. You can caveat your statements all you want but you clearly think it is the best measure of value, and better than the activity of GMs.
Release the Mackan!
by Killer_Carlson on Nov 30, 2010 2:06 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
That’s GVS, not GVT. If you’re considering salary too, that’s a different issue, and then I’d agree Flash is a better asset than Hannan (in a vaccuum). I might be wrong, but I’m almost positive GVT doesn’t include salary.
Anyways, just look at a GVT chart from last year. Duncan Keith was a monster and yet is only 12th by GVT. He’d probably be around 4th, is my first instinct.
My blog and Twitter, featuring coverage of the most unpredictable team in the NHL and where we defend Mike Green, Alex Ovechkin, and Alexander Semin until the bitter end. That is to say, when someone tries to call BS on the Corsi numbers.
If you don't know how to use Timeonice, read this.
"Numbers don't lie, they just don't agree with you"--George E. Ays
by red army line on Nov 30, 2010 1:54 PM EST up reply actions
So how do we reconcile this:
If you don’t think Flash is a more valuable NHL’er than Hannon, then you are blinded by your Flash hate. Proof will be in the pudding this offseason in the contracts each player gets.
with this:
The sports world is replete with GMs and owners massively overvaluing assets.
?
Release the Mackan!
by Killer_Carlson on Nov 30, 2010 7:29 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Flash earns similar value as Marc Staal, Markov, and Blake.
The guy is Peter Schumpmaker. Lord knows what a schump is, but you can bet your bippy his ancestors made them. What he's doing is far worse than crafting fine schumps.
by Steckel Me Elmo on Nov 30, 2010 1:34 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Yeah, between Dater’s report card and the difference between this year’s and last year’s numbers, there’s certainly a question about Hannan’s trajectory.
GVT is ridiculously sketchy comparing across teams. Case in point: GVT says Flash is more valuable than Markov, Erik Johnson, Briere, Patrice Bergeron, Suter (!), Scott Niedermayer, Enstrom, Dubinsky… Need I go on?
Release the Mackan!
by Killer_Carlson on Nov 30, 2010 1:38 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
GMGM should have traded Flash for Enstrom. Maybe ATL should throw in a pick to match up the GVTs. GMGM should be fired for not making that deal.
Release the Mackan!
by Killer_Carlson on Nov 30, 2010 1:41 PM EST up reply actions
Even more proof that stats aren’t always awesome at saying who has value.
Once again, the notion that Flash is better than any of the players that K_C just listed is absolute babytown frolics.
The guy is Peter Schumpmaker. Lord knows what a schump is, but you can bet your bippy his ancestors made them. What he's doing is far worse than crafting fine schumps.
by Steckel Me Elmo on Nov 30, 2010 1:40 PM EST up reply actions
You’re not really comparing GVT across positions and across teams again, are you?
"Essentially, all models are wrong, but some are useful" George E.P. Box
by Knee high to a duck on Nov 30, 2010 2:09 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
When both KHtaD and RAL are saying that a stat is being misused, I don’t even think I need to jump in.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
by Rob Parker on Nov 30, 2010 7:16 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
Just scrolled through over 300 posts. That’ll teach me to be in a meeting when news breaks.
I’ll be there tomorrow night at Scottrade. Anyone hear or read if Hannan will be in the line-up?
Life With Spidey -- a blog about sports, travel, work, family and fun.
Representing Caps fandom in the Gateway to the West.
no idea. But probably not. I think Bruce likes to give new guys a couple days to acclimate themselves.
Unless Green injuries himself packing his video camera, or Poti’s groin explodes while getting on the plane. Then we’ll see Hannan.
Pledge Drive 2010-2011: SO KIDS CAN!! Help build a playground
My only counterpoint is that we have back-to-back’s Wed/Thu. I can’t imagine he wouldn’t play either, and, if he’s going to play in Dallas, why not play in St. Louis?
Life With Spidey -- a blog about sports, travel, work, family and fun.
Representing Caps fandom in the Gateway to the West.
Unless Green injuries himself packing his video camera, or Poti’s groin explodes while getting on the plane. Then we’ll see Hannan.
So you’re saying it’s 50/50 we see Hannan?
"And then they’ll look at guys in my situation, that could play three good games in a row and have one bad shift, and they’ll say, ‘Well, that’s why he’s been in the minor leagues his whole career.'" --Matt Hendricks
it’s been one of those season, ya know?
but slightly seriously, I’d expect to see him in Dallas if we do see him on this little trip.
Pledge Drive 2010-2011: SO KIDS CAN!! Help build a playground
Unless Green injuries himself packing hisvideo camerastack of ones …
Fixed…
Washington Capitals 2009-10 = Quebec Nordiques 1994-95
--- D'ohboy
by MikeL-Pivonka on Nov 30, 2010 2:00 PM EST up reply actions
wasn’t quite sure which one of those items would put more strain on his shoulder.
Pledge Drive 2010-2011: SO KIDS CAN!! Help build a playground
Via @bmcnally14
Scott Hannan will be in St. Louis with the #Caps tomorrow.
"I speak in .gifs, snappy retorts and curse words."
by Steck It Out on Nov 30, 2010 1:26 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
That’s SIO. That’s will be awesome.
I will tweet photos tomorrow night if indeed #23 in white is on the ice.
Life With Spidey -- a blog about sports, travel, work, family and fun.
Representing Caps fandom in the Gateway to the West.
Awesome.
"I speak in .gifs, snappy retorts and curse words."
by Steck It Out on Nov 30, 2010 1:30 PM EST up reply actions
Which reminds me to ask this esteemed crowd -
For those of who go early enough to watch the full warm-ups, what time do I need to get there?
Life With Spidey -- a blog about sports, travel, work, family and fun.
Representing Caps fandom in the Gateway to the West.
6:30 CST is when they start, at least in Nashville.
by Chris Burton on Nov 30, 2010 1:42 PM EST up reply actions
They usually start around 630 I think (EST for a 7PM start).
"DON'T SAY THAT! Please! That is the worst, most stupid thing anyone could say! Cause it quite clearly isn't "only a game." I mean if it was do you honestly think I'd care this much?"
by Bald Pollack on Nov 30, 2010 1:42 PM EST up reply actions
Thanks all. I will definitely be there. Bring the wife and both kids, so I’m already prepping them for the earlier than normal departure.
Life With Spidey -- a blog about sports, travel, work, family and fun.
Representing Caps fandom in the Gateway to the West.
Spidey, GMGM via CI:
General Manager George McPhee said he will be in St Louis tomorrow, and the Capitals might give him the day to watch before he starts playing.
so, I guess we’ll have to see if he plays. I hope he at least takes warm ups.
Pledge Drive 2010-2011: SO KIDS CAN!! Help build a playground
I’m excited about this. Hey Flash, don’t let the door hit you on the way out. Better D depth. I’m stoked. Bruce has to be broken hearted though.
-These go to eleven.
Sometime it just takes one issue to push a lurker to a poster like a bomb detonating.
Life With Spidey -- a blog about sports, travel, work, family and fun.
Representing Caps fandom in the Gateway to the West.
This isn’t Prongfan’s first post – he’s only had a couple hundred previously.
"Don't mind WM...he's an all-around jerk."
by Whiter Mage on Nov 30, 2010 1:28 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Corey
GMGM says cap space could still allow them about an $8 million player at the deadline … so a guy like Brad Richards if he were available.
"DON'T SAY THAT! Please! That is the worst, most stupid thing anyone could say! Cause it quite clearly isn't "only a game." I mean if it was do you honestly think I'd care this much?"
Either GMGM is underestimating, my math was off a bit somewhere, or the Caps cap space estimate on Cap Geek was off. My guess is one or both of the first two.
Because now I can justify browsing and commenting during the work day with the argument that I am promoting my business.
by Sombrero Guy on Nov 30, 2010 1:29 PM EST up reply actions
If he gets Richards at the deadline, I’ll squirt.
The bastards hung me in the spring of '25. But I am still alive.
Box Seats Blog
Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Nov 30, 2010 1:43 PM EST up reply actions
Squirt what?
Life With Spidey -- a blog about sports, travel, work, family and fun.
Representing Caps fandom in the Gateway to the West.
I’m eating lunch at my desk. Not much more else to do right now.
Life With Spidey -- a blog about sports, travel, work, family and fun.
Representing Caps fandom in the Gateway to the West.
Gatorade into a particular Cup.
Many a night from yonder ivied casement, ere I went to rest,
Did I look on great Orion sloping slowly to the West.
000
The bastards hung me in the spring of '25. But I am still alive.
Box Seats Blog
Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Nov 30, 2010 1:47 PM EST up reply actions
I love watching Richards play…in the offensive zone. I’m not sure he’s what the Caps need out of their 2C come the playoffs.
The Artist Formerly Known as CP2Devil.
Links guy at Five For Howling.
Well, he does have his name on the Cup, which is more than can be said for any of our other centers.
Lots of guys get their names on a Cup. Doesn’t mean I want them on my team. And I’m not saying I’m totally against Richards. I am very wary however.
The Artist Formerly Known as CP2Devil.
Links guy at Five For Howling.
Whether Tallon trades him within the division is another issue, but I would be happy campaigning for Stephen Weiss for 2C rather than Brad Richards.
I poured spot remover on my dog. Now he's gone.
by Rather Bengt on Nov 30, 2010 2:17 PM EST up reply actions
If we could have either, why would you take Weiss over Richards?
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
If we could have either I’d take Richards. I gaffed and wasn’t aware how much cap space we have left and that we could afford Richards still this year. I’d love to see Richards feeding Semin for the latter half of the season and the playoffs.
That said I would prefer Weiss as a long term solution at 2C. He would be more affordable than Richards and we wouldn’t have to give up an arm and a leg for him. I like that we would have him a few more years after this one. Of course this all depends on how soon you see MJ90 filling the 2C slot. I would be happy with Weiss as part of a core here.
I poured spot remover on my dog. Now he's gone.
by Rather Bengt on Nov 30, 2010 7:35 PM EST up reply actions
Weiss does make more sense long term, mostly because of the money. He’s also a guy that can transition to 3C better than Richards could in the event Mackan takes the 2C. The big issue on the trade is the return package and Richards will cost a ton if he ever is available.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
TMI…. just…..TMI
Washington Capitals 2009-10 = Quebec Nordiques 1994-95
--- D'ohboy
by MikeL-Pivonka on Nov 30, 2010 2:02 PM EST up reply actions
Are people forgetting that Dallas is in first place in their division? This is a team that very well may make the playoffs and do something.
Dallas is indeed first in their division with 29 points, but is also 3 points from last in their division (LA Kings have 26). Anaheim has 27 points and is a 9 seed currently. Big logjam there in the Western Conference standings at the moment, and a lot can happen between now and the end of February, but my money is on Dallas faltering a bit.
Because now I can justify browsing and commenting during the work day with the argument that I am promoting my business.
by Sombrero Guy on Nov 30, 2010 3:16 PM EST up reply actions
My money is on the 13th place team being further from first than a five game winning streak.
My blog and Twitter, featuring coverage of the most unpredictable team in the NHL and where we defend Mike Green, Alex Ovechkin, and Alexander Semin until the bitter end. That is to say, when someone tries to call BS on the Corsi numbers.
If you don't know how to use Timeonice, read this.
"Numbers don't lie, they just don't agree with you"--George E. Ays
by red army line on Nov 30, 2010 3:18 PM EST up reply actions
Well played.
"DON'T SAY THAT! Please! That is the worst, most stupid thing anyone could say! Cause it quite clearly isn't "only a game." I mean if it was do you honestly think I'd care this much?"
by Bald Pollack on Nov 30, 2010 1:37 PM EST up reply actions
The DJ King deal was done before the Belanger drama.
(Yes, I know about the avatar hounding - just pretend mine is invisible.)
Belanger lost teeth for us in the playoffs, he wanted to stay here, and would have been a fine 2C considering he’s the 1C in Phoenix. GMGM could have prioritized him in the off-season before finding an enforcer who isn’t good enough to stay on the ice.
(By the way, your avatar isn’t showing up. ;-)
Disagree. Belanger is a fine 3C, but no more than that. Phoenix doesn’t have a 1st line, 2nd line, et cetera as we’re used to. They roll almost entirely by competition toughness and match the Hanzal/Prucha/Vrabata Czeching line out there against the top opposition whenever they can get it.
Belanger is a better player than anyone we have lining up at 3C right now, but 2C is definitely stretching it for a Cup contender.
"Essentially, all models are wrong, but some are useful" George E.P. Box
by Knee high to a duck on Nov 30, 2010 7:02 PM EST up reply actions
Not to be pedantic as I agree with what you are saying but Prucha was waived by PHX last week and is playing for San Antonio.
I poured spot remover on my dog. Now he's gone.
by Rather Bengt on Nov 30, 2010 7:16 PM EST up reply actions
Didn’t know that. Phooey — I liked watching that line work. Prucha was a PIM drawing machine.
Reminded by your Sig; Fun with syllogisms.
Some dogs have spots.
My dog has spots.
My dog must be some dog!
"Essentially, all models are wrong, but some are useful" George E.P. Box
by Knee high to a duck on Nov 30, 2010 7:19 PM EST up reply actions
Heh, good one. I never know what to use as a sig so I just revert to old Steven Wright jokes.
I poured spot remover on my dog. Now he's gone.
by Rather Bengt on Nov 30, 2010 7:38 PM EST up reply actions
Does Bruce bust up Carlzner now?
I can’t help but think that the new lines may be :
Schultz/Green
Poti/Carlson
Alzner/Hannan
I rather like Schultz/Green, Poti/Hannan, Carlson/Alzner. But what do I know?
"Don't mind WM...he's an all-around jerk."
I’ve yet to actually win a game as a coach. 0-5-4. Sad face.
8 of those games were dek hockey, though…
"Don't mind WM...he's an all-around jerk."
Those are my preferred pairingas also…
I poured spot remover on my dog. Now he's gone.
by Rather Bengt on Nov 30, 2010 2:02 PM EST up reply actions
pairings
I poured spot remover on my dog. Now he's gone.
by Rather Bengt on Nov 30, 2010 2:02 PM EST up reply actions
Pairingas remind me of some sort of exquisite pastry…or a fancy dance.
"I speak in .gifs, snappy retorts and curse words."
by Steck It Out on Nov 30, 2010 3:54 PM EST up reply actions
My own feeling is leave the Schultz/Green and Alzner/Carlson lines as is and have Hannan team up with Poti. The first two pairings seem to work so team him with Poti.
One thing about Poti — he’s actually one of our most adaptable D-men for who he teams up with. He’s been good with Schultz (before Schultz started pairing with Green) and he’s good with Carlson. He’s been the partner of Oisk, as well, pretty much by default.
Rocking the Red for the Caps since 1975. Rocking the Red on additional fronts as well.
Wow, this’ll teach me to go out for lunch. Well struck, GMGM, and I like the fact that the Caps made this trade “early”…if it turns out to be not so great a fit, a la Joe Corvo, there’s still time (and cap space) to make an additional move on D. That Flash was the price to pay, and not Fehr, makes this deal even sweeter.
And I’m sure it’s been stated already, but kudos to Chesnokov for the heads up.
"I don't care about winning the division or winning the President's Trophy. I just care about getting to the playoffs." --GMGM
Agreed. Yep, Chesnokov called it right.
Flash was our most expendable forward. Nothing against him as a person or a player but ….
I’m definitely for keeping Fehr, especially since our other RW’s are up for free agency. Hopefully, he’ll have a better 2nd half. Come to think of it, he was better during the 2nd half of 2008-2009 than the first half. Could our center situation be part of his problem since most of our main secondary scorers are having off years in the goal scoring department. (Knuble, Fehr, and the now departed Flash)
Rocking the Red for the Caps since 1975. Rocking the Red on additional fronts as well.
This should shock Larry Brooks, but McPhee emphatically stated that they’re not moving any of their young goalies.
That’s very interesting, isn’t it. If he’s not lying, then he saying we’re going to sign him or we’re going to trade him.
Life With Spidey -- a blog about sports, travel, work, family and fun.
Representing Caps fandom in the Gateway to the West.
I am happy about this
Don't celebration when you score goal
by Big Boutros on Nov 30, 2010 1:49 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Argggh – my boss called right at the McPhee interview started. Did he say anything at all other than the standard stuff?
Life With Spidey -- a blog about sports, travel, work, family and fun.
Representing Caps fandom in the Gateway to the West.
This was a good trade. Hannon is probably a bottom pairing with Poti or Erskine, depending on who’s healthy. Carlson/Alzner have been too solid, IMO, to break up.
He’s a solid, if unremarkable, defensive d-man. Which is what this team needed. Those questioning the value of the trade need to rethink this. Fleichmann, no matter how you felt about him, was at best a redundant piece of this team. Hannon brings a presence this team lacks, and it essentially removes Sloan unless there is cataclysmic injuries.
by Charlie Foxtrot on Nov 30, 2010 1:58 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Okay, kids…you’re all far too chatty for some reason today. Move it here before the site explodes, k? :)
If anyone needs me, I'll be at Kettler.
it’s a definite commitment to Mojo. I don’t think anyone knows who he will end up being paired with, but he should start tomorrow, plenty of time to get ready.
~~~ R0cK D@ R3D ~~~
by Chaz-Capapalooza on Nov 30, 2010 2:05 PM EST up reply actions
from KC at WaPo
According to capgeek, the Capitals will have a projected cap hit of $3,193,548 for the remainder of Hannan’s salary this year. Fleischmann’s cap hit in Washington this season was $754, 839.
This seems fairly substantial…
forgive my ignorance, but does this preclude much more in the way of trades this year?
that doesn’t sound right to me. Flash’s hit is way off.
Pledge Drive 2010-2011: SO KIDS CAN!! Help build a playground
Flash’s hit was 2.6 mil.
They have room for an 8 mil player at the deadline (because of how the salaries prorate at that point). A ridiculous amount of flexibility for a team in their position.
Flash’s hit was 2.6 million over a 186 day season. The Caps were on the hook for 1/186th of that 2.6 million every day Flash was on the roster, so after 54 days, his cap hit totaled $754K and change
Because now I can justify browsing and commenting during the work day with the argument that I am promoting my business.
by Sombrero Guy on Nov 30, 2010 2:13 PM EST up reply actions
the 54 days might be exact, but based on quick math it looks like that’s what Katie used.
Because now I can justify browsing and commenting during the work day with the argument that I am promoting my business.
by Sombrero Guy on Nov 30, 2010 2:15 PM EST up reply actions
It’s a tricky thing – cap hits are calculated by the day, (and I need someone smarter than me to explain it) so conceivably by the trade deadline the Caps could take their $3+ million in cap space and turn that into a guy who makes $8 million if they wanted.
…so no, it doesn’t preclude further trades.
Also that $754, 839 is wrong. Flash has over $1.8 million in cap hit remaining this year.
If anyone needs me, I'll be at Kettler.
I’m actually really interested to see how Flash does on a new team, with a new coach and new system. I don’t think anyone here would argue that he’s immensely skilled, he just has….issues. He’s been with BB for so long, and in the shadow of the Young Guns, I really hope for his sake that he is able to blossom in this new situation. Time will tell.
Don't worry about getting to your point, I'm going to live forever.
sloan
any idea if we can get anything for him? low draft pick? prospect? the lint and quarters in my pocket?
more nachos?
"I don't care about winning the division or winning the President's Trophy. I just care about getting to the playoffs." --GMGM
and a Coke?
"And then they’ll look at guys in my situation, that could play three good games in a row and have one bad shift, and they’ll say, ‘Well, that’s why he’s been in the minor leagues his whole career.'" --Matt Hendricks
Okay…let’s be serious here. VC needs some better buns.
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
by twistedlogic on Nov 30, 2010 3:06 PM EST up reply actions
do you have some sort of death wish? voluntarily eating VC hotdogs?
Pledge Drive 2010-2011: SO KIDS CAN!! Help build a playground
Glutton for punishment maybe. Although it’s only happened on one occasion (and will never happen again).
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
by twistedlogic on Nov 30, 2010 3:16 PM EST up reply actions
Guys, can we please move discussion over to the new thread (disguised as a GMGM quote)? This thread’s starting to slow down a bit.
If anyone needs me, I'll be at Kettler.
Yes, mom. Sheesh.
And I hear you talk the talk, but I don't see you walk the walk and I still don't believe a thing you say.
MOVE TO NEW THREAD....MOVE TO NEW THREAD
There, I was a bit louder than you.
"And then they’ll look at guys in my situation, that could play three good games in a row and have one bad shift, and they’ll say, ‘Well, that’s why he’s been in the minor leagues his whole career.'" --Matt Hendricks
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