Thursday Caps Clips: Caps Hang On to Beat Buffalo
by J.P. on Nov 18, 2010 6:35 AM EST
in Caps Clips
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Your savory breakfast links:
- Recaps and other assorted musings on last night's win from us, Vogs, NHL.com (Masisak), WaPo (Carrera: blog, gamer), DCEx (McNally), Caps365 video (Boudreau, players), CSN Washington (Beninati), Frankovic, Peerless, RMNB, Puckhead, StC, Inside Hockey, Capitals News Network, TBD (Chamberlain), clydeorama (pics), bridgetds (pics) and Caps In Pictures (pics).
- On Bruce Boudreau and the shufflin' of lines. [NHL.com (Masisak)]
- Buy or sell - Alex Ovechkin: "Our mindset is that we have a very good team, but we have to play better in the playoffs. Just be how we play in the season - the same way." [NBC Sports]
- Alexander Semin hopes to follow in Lisa Murkowski's footsteps. (File that under "Things I Never Thought I'd Type). [Puck Daddy]
- There are few better in the dot than David Steckel. [Dump n' Chase]
- Today's radio hits: Boudreau on D.C. 101 at 8:00, Brooks Laich on 106.7 The Fan at 8:45 and Mike Green on 106.7 at 4:45.
- Marcus Johansson (g)loves Nicklas Backstrom. [D.C. Sports Bog]
- More John Erskine praise (and more). [Box Seats]
- Pick a D, any D. [RtR]
- Another night of "Hockey n' Heels" has come and gone. [Capitals, OFB]
- Sticking with bullets for the ladies, here's Brooks Laich working out. [D.C. Sports Bog]
- Mike Green and Special Sauce (and no, we're not talking Big Macs). [Box Seats]
- A look at the Caps' kids. [RMNB]
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Oy (starts at :52).
"DON'T SAY THAT! Please! That is the worst, most stupid thing anyone could say! Cause it quite clearly isn't "only a game." I mean if it was do you honestly think I'd care this much?"
0000
The bastards hung me in the spring of '25. But I am still alive.
Box Seats Blog
Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Nov 18, 2010 7:46 AM EST up reply actions
According to OFB, GMGM doesn’t read recipe directions.
The Artist Formerly Known as CP2Devil.
Links guy at Five For Howling.
by Carl Putnam on Nov 18, 2010 10:38 AM EST up reply actions
He’s really channeling a comic book guy + captain kirk.
Think twice before you speak, and then you may be able to say something more insulting than if you spoke right out at once.
I’m no huge OFB fan, but I have a hard time disagreeing with anything he says in that segment from :50 through two minutes. I stopped watching, so I don’t know what conclusions he reached, but I think that Mackan looks overmatched right now. I would quibble with the “overcooked” comments on Carlson and Alzner, but generally speaking, I think the team’s short-term desperation for a center is forcing Johansson into a situation he’s not entirely ready for.
And I hear you talk the talk, but I don't see you walk the walk and I still don't believe a thing you say.
He’s not ready for it but in a different way than say Flash isn’t ready for it. To me, it seems he’s learning and benefiting from the experience. Not regressing and becoming a mental case or just plain sucking. It doesn’t seem like it’s a bad situation and could really speed up his development.
I would like for him to stay off the first line though. It was an interesting experiment and to see if it jump started him\Ovi.
Think twice before you speak, and then you may be able to say something more insulting than if you spoke right out at once.
It was an interesting experiment
I agree with this. It was interesting. It didn’t work and I’d be surprised to see it continue. If he stays in the NHL centering Fehr and Chimera, it’s not the end of the world. . . provided that he’s not getting benched in every close game or that he’s taking fewer than 10 faceoffs a night and that he’s getting occasional special teams time.
Given that none of those conditions are likely to obtain, I’m skeptical as to the utility of keeping him in DC.
And I hear you talk the talk, but I don't see you walk the walk and I still don't believe a thing you say.
You think even with him on the 3rd or so line BB would bench him in close games? Last night aside, I’m not sure this season so far supports that fear.
"Do you see my fist? It was fists like these that built quaint Canadian cities out of the harsh Canadian wilderness, etc. etc."
Not in Seattle anymore.
by SeattleCapsFan on Nov 18, 2010 11:18 AM EST up reply actions
Depends on who’s in the lineup that night, but given that the Caps have three defensively sound centers who can take a draw much better than Mackan, I’d say yes, and we’ve see it thus far this season – toward the end of games, Mackan has often been replaced by Gordon/Steckel/Hendricks.
And I hear you talk the talk, but I don't see you walk the walk and I still don't believe a thing you say.
I don’t think Johansson was out of place on the 1st line. I think AO is simply not playing very well right now. We’ve seen time and again that AO’s line can generate points, pretty much no matter who his linemates are. I disagree with OFB’s “neutering” comment for that reason. It’s definitely not MJ90’s fault that line isn’t playing up to its potential.
by DrinkingPartner on Nov 18, 2010 11:23 AM EST up reply actions
It’s definitely not MJ90’s fault that line isn’t playing up to its potential.
Up to their potential, no. But the Corsi numbers last night for the first line was -10, -8 and -10, the worst on the team. Shouldn’t any first line play better than that?
"I would feed them lefts until I was pretty much tired of doing it." - Alan May, JRR, 10.16.2010
This though can also go back to the argument that the only reason AO’s numbers until now have been so good is that Backs and Semin were carrying him. With them on the second line, he had to pull his own weight and the problems we all have been seeing so far were magnified.
"Do you see my fist? It was fists like these that built quaint Canadian cities out of the harsh Canadian wilderness, etc. etc."
Not in Seattle anymore.
by SeattleCapsFan on Nov 18, 2010 11:32 AM EST up reply actions
AO + Backstrom have had a couple of games worse than that, IIRC, one with Semin too.
by red army line on Nov 18, 2010 12:31 PM EST up reply actions
I don’t think anyone’s saying that nothing is wrong with AO, I think that the evidence from last night and the preponderance of the season is that Mackan probably isn’t going to be what snaps him out of his funk.
And I hear you talk the talk, but I don't see you walk the walk and I still don't believe a thing you say.
I guess the point I should have made earlier is that I want to see how it goes for a few games before I come to that conclusion. Sometimes it takes players longer to gel than 1 game + 1 period.
Yeah, I completely agree with this.
To respond to D’oh, I’ll say the only person that is going to snap AO out of his funk is AO.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
I don’t think Johansson was out of place on the 1st line.
Really? Ovie’s been playing poorly, no doubt, but he and Knuble were -11 Fenwick last night. That’s fucking horrible for two guys who are typically on the plus side of the ledger.
It’s definitely not MJ90’s fault that line isn’t playing up to its potential.
I wasn’t saying it was, I was just saying that the experiment didn’t work.
And I hear you talk the talk, but I don't see you walk the walk and I still don't believe a thing you say.
That’s fucking horrible for two guys who are typically on the plus side of the ledger.
They’ve both been on the wrong side of the ledger several times this year…
several times this year…
I’ll take the entire career’s worth of evidence for Ovechkin.
And I hear you talk the talk, but I don't see you walk the walk and I still don't believe a thing you say.
Sure. Which only reinforces my point.
Corsi Rel:
Ovechkin: 2.8 (awful for him)
Johansson: -18.5 (the only people worse on the team are DJ King and Jay Beagle, he’s a full 2.5 WORSE than Brian Fahey).
Oh, and that’s with Ovie starting 53% of his shifts in the O-zone, while Johansson starts 56.6%.
By any subjective or objective measurement, Johansson has looked completely out of his depth in the NHL. I’m bummed, because he looked so good in the preseason and his speed is captivating, but at this point, the kid is a project/experiment.
And I hear you talk the talk, but I don't see you walk the walk and I still don't believe a thing you say.
Joe Finley is a “project.” Marcus Johansson is a rookie.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
at this point
He’s a rookie, but he’s not a rookie like Carlson and Alzner are rookies. They’re on the ice at the end of the game last night, whereas Johansson was stapled to the bench in the 3rd. There’s a qualitative difference there.
And I hear you talk the talk, but I don't see you walk the walk and I still don't believe a thing you say.
Actually, you’re totally wrong.
And I hear you talk the talk, but I don't see you walk the walk and I still don't believe a thing you say.
My apologies….I stand corrected. He played in the last minute of a game against Atlanta when the team was down seven players to injury. How many other games was he out there at the end of the game that year?
For example, Bruins at Caps, 4/8/2009, 2-1 game in which Alzner only played 13:51 (so he had already started to slide), he played the second-to-last shift of the game.
And I hear you talk the talk, but I don't see you walk the walk and I still don't believe a thing you say.
And yet at the time you were ripping on Alzner as well.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
You’re misremembering. I can’t recall ever ripping on Alzner. I was bummed when he got sent down. At the time, I was clear that I thought Carlson had higher long-term upside, which I think he still does.
And I hear you talk the talk, but I don't see you walk the walk and I still don't believe a thing you say.
No, you definitely talked about how he regressed, how the Caps were hurting his development, how he had taken a step back from his initial NHL stint, etc.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
Yeah, but that’s not ripping on the player. He was slipping, and I didn’t see the point in having him skate 13:51 when he could go down to Hershey and skate 22:00. I’m just not a fan of having young players ride the pine in the NHL. For 90% of them it’s not the best thing developmentally.
And I hear you talk the talk, but I don't see you walk the walk and I still don't believe a thing you say.
And I challenge your definition of “ride the pine.”
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
My definition changes for different players. For a player who projects as a top-6 forward, skating ~12-14 mins is riding the pine, because it means you’re likely playing on the 3rd line and getting no PP time.
For a top-4 D like Alzner, anything less than 17 mins is bad, because it means you aren’t killing penalties or skating every shift in your rotation.
And I hear you talk the talk, but I don't see you walk the walk and I still don't believe a thing you say.
He was stapled to the bench in the last half of the third of a one-goal game in his ninth NHL game for a team that has three (ostensibly) outstanding defensive centers. It’s hardly something to get worked up over, IMO.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
by J.P. on Nov 18, 2010 12:21 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I wasn’t worked up over it, I was trying to point out the qualitative difference between two players who are both “rookies” as a justification for why I called Mackan a project at this point. Both Carlson and Johansson are going to take their lumps this year, but the near-term contributions of Carlson are clearly worth it, as evidenced by the fact that he was out there with another young player during a key point in the game.
In other words, there are rookies and there are rookies.
And I hear you talk the talk, but I don't see you walk the walk and I still don't believe a thing you say.
Which one was Nick Backstrom on November 18, 2007 – the italicized kind or the other?
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
C’mon. We should be able to mutually acknowledge the qualitative differences between Finley, Mackan, Carlson and Backstrom.
To be honest, I don’t remember watching Backstrom’s first 10-15 games with an eye as to how I’d compare him to a future Swedish rookie. Before his Philly coming out party on the 23rd, Nicky had 1G/8A and was skating roughly 15 mins/night. Not miles better than Johansson, but I’m not basing my assessment of Johansson entirely on stats. He’s just looked weak on the puck and uncertain of where to be on the ice. Even in his rookie year, Backstrom was never weak on the puck.
And I hear you talk the talk, but I don't see you walk the walk and I still don't believe a thing you say.
C’mon. We should be able to mutually acknowledge the qualitative differences between Finley, Mackan, Carlson and Backstrom.
Yep. Every prospect a snowflake.
I’m not even sure what I’m arguing for or against any more other than preaching patience with MoJo.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
Fair enough. To clarify what I’m arguing for: if we’re going to treat it as an experiment and see what he’s made of as a top-6 forward, then go whole-hog. Don’t half-ass it by playing him on the top line then giving him no special teams time (which caters to his strengths and would give him confidence).
Anyhow, I think we agree here more than it might seem.
And I hear you talk the talk, but I don't see you walk the walk and I still don't believe a thing you say.
Pretty sure he was a rookie playing out of position…
Just trying to capture the spirit of the thing...
by dcsportsfan1 on Nov 18, 2010 12:49 PM EST up reply actions
You see, Nick got a chance to acclimate to the NHL on the wing. Totally different.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
by Rob Parker on Nov 18, 2010 2:28 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Yeah. Carlson has 41 NHL games and 2 Calder Cups. Alzner has 70 NHL games and 2 Calder Cups. Mackan has 9 NHL games.
We all talked about his need to adjust to the North American game. Why are you jumping ship so fast? If you can live with rookie mistakes from the other guys, why not just chill out and breathe and let Mackan make his adjustments. It’s fucking November. I guarantee nobody will win the Stanley Cup this month.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
by Rob Parker on Nov 18, 2010 2:25 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Who’s jumping ship? He’s got mad skills, and will make a great NHL’er. I’d just rather he’d get the adjusting down in Hershey this fall rather than up here, so he’ll be ready to go after the first of the year, similar to Carlson’s path last year.
"I would feed them lefts until I was pretty much tired of doing it." - Alan May, JRR, 10.16.2010
If you can live with rookie mistakes from the other guys, why not just chill out and breathe and let Mackan make his adjustments.
Mental rookie mistakes are one thing. Mackan simply doesn’t have the strength to compete at the NHL level yet. He gets pushed off the puck by a strong breeze. That’s not going to get better over the course of the season – those are the kinds of gains made in the offseason.
And I hear you talk the talk, but I don't see you walk the walk and I still don't believe a thing you say.
His strength won’t, but his knowledge and ability to play with NHL players will. He was no doubt physically immature in the SEL, but figured out how to compete against men. Look around the league, there are LOTS of physically immature players that have a hard time battling veterans. What they do have is the knowledge of how to read the play to obviate the need to engage in brute strength battles. When Mackan learns to read the play better, make decisions quicker, and use his superb skating to it’s maximum benefit he may very well not get pushed around as much because people won’t be on him as quickly. I know you know this is true.
And again, the major issue I have with your whole approach today is the fact that he just got back from injury. He has fewer than 10 NHL games. Why not table your frustration for a few weeks and see where he’s at? Last night didn’t prove shit that you didn’t already know.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
He was no doubt physically immature in the SEL, but figured out how to compete against men.
The SEL isn’t exactly renowned as a physical league. Furthermore, I have a hard time imagining anyone catching Mackan on the big ice sheet.
And I hear you talk the talk, but I don't see you walk the walk and I still don't believe a thing you say.
They are still men and still have boards. It’s not as physical, but he was also younger and physically less mature. Give him time.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
With time, he’ll be fine. I’m not saying the kid is terrible. I’m just saying that, given the choice between watching him skate 12:00/game with no special teams time in DC, versus 18:00 and PP/PK time in Hershey, I take the latter.
You take the former, that’s fine.
And I hear you talk the talk, but I don't see you walk the walk and I still don't believe a thing you say.
You’re also speculating that it will turn out like that. He was getting some PK time before the injury. I suspect that will come back when BB is satisfied his conditioning is up to snuff. His ES TOI is in no way indicative of “riding the pine.” He’s middle of the pack among forwards. Given how HER runs, he’d get similar TOI there. I see no basis for thinking he’ll get 18 and top special teams time in HER. That’s not how they roll. Greentree, Aucoin, Wilsie, Bouchard, Gordon and MP are going to get the top PP time (unless we call up MP, which you already said you weren’t advocating). I don’t know how they run the PK, but I suspect Pinner, Beagle, and some other veterans will get the lion’s share of that time. He’d be 3C and essentially in the same depth chart position, just playing with less skilled players and against more goons. Awesome.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
You misread my statement about MP. I think the Caps would call him or Aucoin up as a stop-gap. My point was that I wasn’t taking this position as an advocate of MP, like some others might wish to.
And I hear you talk the talk, but I don't see you walk the walk and I still don't believe a thing you say.
History suggests Aucoin won’t be here for more than 9 games. He’s not a viable replacement. They don’t want to lose him to waivers so they won’t call him up for more than a short term emergency.
I’ve said all along that Mackan isn’t going to be a difference maker this year and we need to solve the 2C from outside the organization. It’s just this impassioned response from one game that makes me so curious. I don’t get it. He didn’t even look that bad, and given how his linemates played I don’t see the big deal. Of all the players on the team, Mackan is one of the few that has the potential to take a big step forward this year. I’m willing to live with him for a few weeks to see how he does. Like J.P., if nothing changes in a few weeks, I’ll revisit. You’re just reading way too much into one game, at least with regards to Mackan.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
It’s just this impassioned response from one game that makes me so curious.
My impassioned response to this game has less to do with Mackan and more the overall play of the team. The team is doing all the things it did last year: the lack of focus, the inconsistent effort and systems play, the lack of discipline. . . and they’re winning just like last year. And I think they’ll lose in the playoffs just like last year.
And I hear you talk the talk, but I don't see you walk the walk and I still don't believe a thing you say.
It’s just a really negative viewpoint to take from a game that, I thought, was one of their better ones this year. I’m not going to dive into the whole Mackan debate other than to say I agree mostly w/ F&B here, but last night they seemed focused all night long. There was a brief period of less than a minute where the Sabres got on the board twice, but the Caps shut them down after that, had a great first, a mostly great second and a pretty good third (that also involved them playing more tight, defensive hockey and taking fewer chances). Last year this game would not end up in the win column, at least not in regulation.
I, for one, left the game highly impressed with the overall performance.
Oh, and with a stronger hatred for Buffalo fans than ever, but that’s not really relevant here.
If anyone needs me, I'll be at Kettler.
There was a brief period of less than a minute where the Sabres got on the board twice,
I think you’re discounting the several minutes of running around that preceded it, and the constant Buffalo pressure that followed it.
Last year this game would not end up in the win column, at least not in regulation.
Perhaps not, but I should point out that the team has needed OT/SO six times out of nineteen games. They’re not exactly finishing teams off this year, either.
Honestly, I can think of three “strong” games this year: NJD, CAR and CGY. All three were against bad, bad teams that were struggling. Otherwise, the Caps have required a lot of luck to acquire this record. I think that luck will run out at some point.
And I hear you talk the talk, but I don't see you walk the walk and I still don't believe a thing you say.
There wasn’t much running around before the first goal. That PP changed the game and all the running around was for the rest of the second period.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
Sorry. BS. I even turned to KHTAD and said, “watch, this will result in a goal” when AO and Johansson got stuck out on a long shift after much running around and a couple brutal turnovers.
And I hear you talk the talk, but I don't see you walk the walk and I still don't believe a thing you say.
How’d that work out? Probably not as you called since the first goal was on the PP. I’m sure there were bad shifts in there, but that PP undoubtedly changed the tide of the game.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
The running around led directly to Green’s penalty, which led directly to the goal. Sure, there was an intervening step, but that’s a technicality. I’m guessing Buffalo scores there if Green doesn’t take his man down.
And I hear you talk the talk, but I don't see you walk the walk and I still don't believe a thing you say.
To put it in larger context, the Caps have played only two teams that I consider legit Cup contenders: Philly and Boston. Our record in those games is 2-2, with one win being in OT.
And I hear you talk the talk, but I don't see you walk the walk and I still don't believe a thing you say.
That’s not really fair…there are only a handful of legit Cup contenders in the entire League, and when you’re one of the top teams in the League almost every game is going to be against a team that’s not “top” competition. Doesn’t make the wins any cheaper, especially considering how often in the last few years the Caps have played down to their opponent.
And furthermore, these “Cup contenders” haven’t exactly been great in one-goal games – for all their bloviating about being the hottest team in the NHL, Philly’s had 9 1-goal games and are 4-3-2 in those games. Pitt’s 3-5-2 in 1-goal games. Vancouver’s 3-1-3. Chicago’s 6-6-2. You call it luck, I call it a good team finding ways to win.
If anyone needs me, I'll be at Kettler.
You call it luck, I call it a good team finding ways to win.
And in the playoffs, they call it four straight seven-game series.
And I hear you talk the talk, but I don't see you walk the walk and I still don't believe a thing you say.
Oy.
Last year the Caps were 20-8-13 (or more accurately 20-21) in one-goal games – that’s a win % of .488, 17th best in the League and third lowest among all playoff teams. Chicago was 23-9-8, for a win % of .575 and 6th best in the League. Every team ahead of them was a playoff team, and 4 of the 6 finished in the top 4 of their conferences.
Not saying it’s a direct correlation, but you need to be a good team to figure out ways to win the close games, and yes, occasionally that involves a little luck. I’m happy to see some improvement.
If anyone needs me, I'll be at Kettler.
Where can I find this data? I’d like to see if there’s any carryover affect year-to-year, which would imply repeatability.
And I hear you talk the talk, but I don't see you walk the walk and I still don't believe a thing you say.
Can’t really link to it but if you go through NHL.com, stats, teams, goal-games.
And I’m not sure why people keep thinking I’m talking about repeatability. I’m talking about what happened last year and how perhaps the Caps record in 1-goal games somewhat reflected the fact that they weren’t as well equipped for playoff hockey – mentally, not personnel-wise.
If anyone needs me, I'll be at Kettler.
Thanks! Super helpful. :)
And I hear you talk the talk, but I don't see you walk the walk and I still don't believe a thing you say.
The implication being that if it wasn’t a repeatable skill, there’s no reason to think that it mattered one way or another in the playoffs.
"Essentially, all models are wrong, but some are useful" George E.P. Box
by Knee high to a duck on Nov 18, 2010 5:59 PM EST up reply actions
It’s repeatable within a season – relatively stagnant roster, same systems, same coach, this is the type of thing you practice and learn over the season heading into the playoffs. As I said before, aren’t we always preaching that they should be focusing on skills and habits that will help them in the postseason? We don’t say they should focus on skills that will help them the following year.
If anyone needs me, I'll be at Kettler.
It’s repeatable within a season
Disagree. You see a lot of luck over sample sizes this small.
As I said before, aren’t we always preaching that they should be focusing on skills and habits that will help them in the postseason?
Yes, but those habits are applicable to all games, not just one-goal games. The other half of one-goal games is coming back from deficits, not just holding leads.
We don’t say they should focus on skills that will help them the following year.
…but don’t we? Aren’t we concerned with draft picks and development cycles? Skills are things that stick with you, things that you can repeat year-over-year and series-after-series. If you can’t do that, it’s not a skill.
"Essentially, all models are wrong, but some are useful" George E.P. Box
by Knee high to a duck on Nov 18, 2010 6:22 PM EST up reply actions
4 very different series…3 of which we were fighting back to send the series to Game 7. We blew it last year, no question, we weren’t the only team Montreal/Halak pulled that trick on either.
Of the other 3, one was the first series ever for most of the team against the Flyers that we certainly could have won, another where frankly Theodore put us in a hole that otherwise no one would have batted an eye as we win that series in 6. The last of those 3 was a Game 7 defeat to the eventual Stanley Cup champs.
The only series I was remotely surprised by the outcome of was last years.
Everything ends badly...otherwise it wouldn't end.
by Davethecapsfan on Nov 18, 2010 6:30 PM EST up reply actions
So if these teams with really good underlying numbers, strong depth, and stud players aren’t able to consistently win close games, what does that tell you about how repeatable they are?
The teams you listed, sans the Kings and Wings, are basically the Who’s Who of Cup contenders this season. There are the top handful of teams in the NHL — if they can’t do it, it’s probably not all that repeatable.
"Essentially, all models are wrong, but some are useful" George E.P. Box
by Knee high to a duck on Nov 18, 2010 5:40 PM EST up reply actions
Maybe not on a yearly basis, but you could very well look back on the end of the year and see that the teams that did the best were the best in one goal games. Or you could disclaim it as luck. You just don’t know. What I do know is that I’d rather be winning those games, and given how we went out -losing three straight one goal games – it can’t really be a bad thing.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
I think there’s a correlation/causation thing going on here. Colorado would be a perfect example from last year, because I imagine that they were pretty high on that list.
It’s more like, if you get lucky and win lots of one-goal games, you make the playoffs, rather than, if you’re a playoff team, you’ll be able to win lots of one-goal games.
And I hear you talk the talk, but I don't see you walk the walk and I still don't believe a thing you say.
Exactly so.
"Essentially, all models are wrong, but some are useful" George E.P. Box
by Knee high to a duck on Nov 18, 2010 5:49 PM EST up reply actions
Maybe not on a yearly basis, but you could very well look back on the end of the year and see that the teams that did the best were the best in one goal games.
These would be the teams with the best records. One goal games, particularly ones that go to OT or SO, aren’t all that predictive. They have the best records because they got the bounces in their high-leverage situations, not because it’s a repeatable skill.
"Essentially, all models are wrong, but some are useful" George E.P. Box
by Knee high to a duck on Nov 18, 2010 5:48 PM EST up reply actions
And if the teams with the best regular season one goal records tend to go farther in the playoffs?
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
I don’t know, but I’m inclined to doubt it. The teams that have the best one-goal records in the playoffs do best, but that’s a tautology.
The first rule of tautology club is the first rule of tautology club.
"Essentially, all models are wrong, but some are useful" George E.P. Box
by Knee high to a duck on Nov 18, 2010 6:19 PM EST up reply actions
Ranks
05-06:
Car: 1
Edm: 18
06-07:
Ana: 18
Ott: 29
07-08:
Det: 16
Pit: 17
08-09:
Det: 4
Pit: 10
09-10:
Chi: 6
Phi: 16
Doesn’t seem like much correlation there. Of course, the finalists are usually in the top half, otherwise they likely wouldn’t have made the playoffs.
And I hear you talk the talk, but I don't see you walk the walk and I still don't believe a thing you say.
it can’t really be a bad thing.
Yeah it can. The best thing to do is not put yourself in a position where a bad bounce can decide a game. We can all bitch and moan about the Thoreson or Malkin non-calls, or the wave-off of Knuble’s goal, but the fact remains that the Caps put themselves in that position.
And I hear you talk the talk, but I don't see you walk the walk and I still don't believe a thing you say.
Fucking Christ. So it’s a bad thing when we blow everyone out because we can’t win like that in the playoffs and it’s a bad thing when we win one goal games because we put ourselves in a position to lose.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
…as do most teams. Look at last year’s playoffs – almost half of Philly’s games were one-goal affairs. A third of Chicago’s were. More than half of our 7 whole games were. 7 of Montreal’s 19, 10 of San Jose’s 15…shall I go on? I think it’s a little important to be able to pull wins out of those situations. And those don’t even account for games that were one-goal games but ended w/ an ENG.
If anyone needs me, I'll be at Kettler.
Let’s not put the cart before the horse: It’s absolutely important to pull wins out of those situations. What I don’t find plausible (and have seen no data to suggest) is that teams have a true talent for consistently winning close games.
Those teams (less Chicago, that team was fucking amazing) got real lucky to go as far as they did in the playoffs. Even Chicago needed a healthy dose of luck to win the Cup.
"Essentially, all models are wrong, but some are useful" George E.P. Box
by Knee high to a duck on Nov 18, 2010 5:57 PM EST up reply actions
You don’t think holding a lead is a skill?
You don’t think getting the goal in sudden death is a skill? That may be more lucky, but it’s not a coin flip. What about when you have a goalie that is just on his game and locking it down in OT? Sure, there’s an element of luck that he’s hot in the right moment, but it’s not a coin flip. Bearing down and taking care of business is a skill, I think. Of course, I’m also the guy that has touted Neuvirth’s play in crunch time. I think it’s part of the mental skill of winning a hockey game. Hard to measure, like chemistry, but real nonetheless.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
You don’t think holding a lead is a skill?
I think holding a lead is a skill based on other things the team does, but that doesn’t equal winning one goal games. A team that holds a lead should be able to counter-punch effectively to extend that lead as well as simply hold it to one.
You don’t think getting the goal in sudden death is a skill? That may be more lucky, but it’s not a coin flip.
Even if it’s not a dead-on coinflip, it’s a lot closer to that than the Caps’ record currently implies.
What about when you have a goalie that is just on his game and locking it down in OT? Sure, there’s an element of luck that he’s hot in the right moment, but it’s not a coin flip.
Only guy that’s been able to consistently do that is Patrick Roy. If there was ever an argument for clutch in hockey, Roy is it.
Bearing down and taking care of business is a skill, I think.
I can buy that in that there are some players that freak out in clutch situations, but there are hardly any that actually raise their games in clutch situations.
"Essentially, all models are wrong, but some are useful" George E.P. Box
by Knee high to a duck on Nov 18, 2010 6:09 PM EST up reply actions
See, I’m not talking about over the course of a career like Roy. I’m talking about one season, one playoffs. What about Giguere in 03? Was the fact that he had a record breaking OT streak just luck? Did he have nothing to do with that?
Obviously it doesn’t even matter now, and I don’t even care about it now. If this team catches lightning in a bottle this year and just has IT in one goal games, awesome. Call it luck, call it whatever, awesome. I’m more concerned about them doing it in the spring, but I think stat people are overly dismissive of it and tend to just ascribe “luck” to anything they can’t explain when it’s just as likely that their model is off.
I saw the BTN post on luck the other day. How do you know if a team is a .450 team that got lucky, or if they are legitimately that good? And more importantly, does it matter?
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
Clearly there was something going on, but reproducing it has proved difficult without having two hall-of-fame blueliners working in front of him. It’s part luck and partly some of that unmeasurable voodoo, but which was what and how can you build towards that in the future?
On the BtN post: that distribution is what you’d see if it were pure luck. Was there something besides that going on with the Avs? Probably, but even if there wasn’t, you’d expect to see a team of that skill level reach that point total or better in about 10% of all their seasons. Craig Anderson had a lot to do with it, as did getting a lot of good bounces, but they’re also fast and hard to play against.
As for mattering, it doesn’t matter for past results, but if you’re interested in where the team is going, rather than where it’s been, then it matters. There are some teams that flat out don’t fit the Corsi model (07-08 Pens, the Avs for the last 5 years), but it’s generally pretty good for predictions; more so than goal differential or standings points.
"Essentially, all models are wrong, but some are useful" George E.P. Box
by Knee high to a duck on Nov 18, 2010 6:30 PM EST up reply actions
What HoF D was on ANA in 03?
As for the rest, let’s take it to the bottom.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
That’s my point; they got that one streak in 2003 and then were totally unable to reproduce anything like it until they got both Pronger and Nieds.
"Essentially, all models are wrong, but some are useful" George E.P. Box
by Knee high to a duck on Nov 18, 2010 6:38 PM EST up reply actions
It all ultimately comes down to luck + talent + hard work, though, doesn’t it? And aren’t those the three factors that usually decide whether you win a one-goal game or you lose it?
Sure, Philly got a little lucky but they also pulled it together enough to win the games they needed to. Montreal took out two of the big name teams because of luck and hard work. And I don’t buy for a second that SJ “got lucky”. They played great, even their sweep at the hands of Chicago was hardly a typical sweep – they were in that series the whole time.
And there were other teams. Boston, 9 of their 13. Pittsburgh, 7 of 13. Detroit, 5 of their 12 (all losses, btw).
If anyone needs me, I'll be at Kettler.
Those are the three factors that normally decide whether you win any game, not just the one-goal variety.
Philly got a lot lucky. Boston choked like dogs in games 4-7, especially in game seven.
Montreal took out those two teams with a heaping dose of luck, some hard work and a lot less talent.
SJ played great and got a lot of luck out of Nabby. Detroit went cold right at the worst possible time; every game was close, but DET couldn’t buy a bounce to save their playoff lives.
It’s a terrifying concept; even truly great teams can’t control what’s happening on the ice all the time. Sometimes teams play out of their minds and still lose because of things they can’t control. That’s luck.
"Essentially, all models are wrong, but some are useful" George E.P. Box
by Knee high to a duck on Nov 18, 2010 6:15 PM EST up reply actions
I thought it was all because we don’t “play the right way” that we lost. Snark aside, what’s said above is the stance I’ve been preaching for awhile now. Especially in hockey versus the other major sports, there are going to be some playoff series that just don’t go the way you’d expect them to. The better team (not just on paper but in the actual series) doesn’t always win. Bounces happen, luck happens. Teams that rise above seem to find ways to make their own luck, maybe they’re just lucky. Bottom line is every playoff year is going to be different…matchups, results, whatevs. Any and all arguments over how we are going to do this year in the playoffs probably should have a lot less to do with what has happened the last 3 years and will have to focus on what the situation is come this April.
Everything ends badly...otherwise it wouldn't end.
by Davethecapsfan on Nov 18, 2010 6:38 PM EST up reply actions
Kings are 4-0-0, Wings are 5-0-1. Are they just getting lucky? Are they not top teams?
And it is repeatable – maybe not across seasons as F&B points out but it’s certainly a learning process, you have to learn how to win those games and teams that do generally – not always, but generally – are better equipped to handle the tighter games in the playoffs.
If anyone needs me, I'll be at Kettler.
And it is repeatable – maybe not across seasons
But if it’s not repeatable across seasons, then how do teams “learn” it? Do they “unlearn” it in the summer?
And I hear you talk the talk, but I don't see you walk the walk and I still don't believe a thing you say.
Maybe chemistry or personnel change. Maybe the team just came together for a great run one year. You’ve seen it in every sport. A team just catches “IT” and goes on a run. They lose IT when the season ends. Doesn’t mean they can’t keep winning with IT in that one season.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
There’s a lot of “It” in hockey. Even when you take shot attempts, penalties drawn/taken, blocks, all that good stuff, there’s still a shitload of unexplained voodoo going on. I’ve never seen anyone successfully measure it.
I’ve also never seen a way to figure it out except by saying post-hoc that a team had “it”. If it’s not predictable and it disappears and reappears at the drop of a hat, I’m not comfortable relying on it, or claiming my favorite team has “it”.
"Essentially, all models are wrong, but some are useful" George E.P. Box
by Knee high to a duck on Nov 18, 2010 6:03 PM EST up reply actions
If it’s not predictable and it disappears and reappears at the drop of a hat, I’m not comfortable relying on it, or claiming my favorite team has "it".
Second-half 2007-8 Caps = perfect example. That team seemingly had “it” coming out its ears.
And I hear you talk the talk, but I don't see you walk the walk and I still don't believe a thing you say.
Who the fuck cares, if you got eliminated the year before? You keep the broader lessons over the summer, that’s what drives the rest.
Everyone keeps saying how the regular season needs to be a time for teams to learn how to play playoff hockey, play better defensively, don’t just rely on their offense to bail them out…playing lots of one-goal games is one way to do that, and being able to win more often than not when in that situation is a good sign that they’re learning to play playoff hockey.
If anyone needs me, I'll be at Kettler.
Who the fuck cares, if you got eliminated the year before?
Because if, as you say, it’s an important “skill” then it had better not go away in the offseason, otherwise coaches ought to be fired.
Look, I’m not saying that I disagree with the notion that good teams find ways to win, but I’m saying that if given the choice between a team that dominates every game and wins 3-1 every night vs. the team that wins 5-4 and 4-3, I’ll take the former, even if it’s less entertaining.
And I hear you talk the talk, but I don't see you walk the walk and I still don't believe a thing you say.
It IS an important skill, but it’s more important to carry it from the regular season into the playoffs than from the summer into the fall.
And I’d agree, I prefer the 3-1contests to a 5-4 game any day and I’m betting most people here would also agree – but guess what, that’s what they’re getting. 4 of the 6 one-goal games were games in which the Caps scored less than 4 goals; three were 3-2 finals, one was a 2-1 final. And last night was a 4-2 win but it was really a 3-2 game.
If anyone needs me, I'll be at Kettler.
What if the 3-1 game is really a 2-1 game with an ENG?
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
It’s not an important skill, it’s important for teams to have success in, but they have less control over it than their record would otherwise indicate. The more control over it they have.
"Essentially, all models are wrong, but some are useful" George E.P. Box
by Knee high to a duck on Nov 18, 2010 6:18 PM EST up reply actions
They’re absolutely getting lucky. Jonathan Quick is playing out of his mind (he’s not going to keep that SV%, or anything near it) and the Kings are shooting their balls off at ES.
Same with the Wings: outrageously high team-wide PDO scores and S%
"Essentially, all models are wrong, but some are useful" George E.P. Box
by Knee high to a duck on Nov 18, 2010 5:53 PM EST up reply actions
Although the BOS loses were without Green.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
And the Philly win was with a kid in net playing his first full NHL game.
If anyone needs me, I'll be at Kettler.
Philly has this rookie goalie, perhaps you’ve heard of him?
And I hear you talk the talk, but I don't see you walk the walk and I still don't believe a thing you say.
Yeah, but he wasn’t playing in his first NHL game against us and he was more Varlamov-esque in that he’d played against men before. I’m not saying having a rookie goaltender is a weakness – far from it – but a 20-year-old in his first game against one of the top teams (for now)? Yeah, that’s tough.
If anyone needs me, I'll be at Kettler.
Fair enough, but it’s not like Boston isn’t banged up, too.
And I hear you talk the talk, but I don't see you walk the walk and I still don't believe a thing you say.
You know as well as I do how big a difference Mike Green makes to this team. His absence is one of the biggest reasons we’ve lost two straight series.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
I’m not disagreeing, I’m just pointing out that Boston wasn’t entirely healthy either.
The point remains that very little about the way this team has played has engendered confidence that they’ve progressed beyond the Montreal flameout.
And I hear you talk the talk, but I don't see you walk the walk and I still don't believe a thing you say.
Can I take credit for starting all this and loving every minute of it?
"DON'T SAY THAT! Please! That is the worst, most stupid thing anyone could say! Cause it quite clearly isn't "only a game." I mean if it was do you honestly think I'd care this much?"
by Bald Pollack on Nov 18, 2010 5:50 PM EST up reply actions
And I’m thinking of how well STLSpidey captured the various Japers’ personalities in his fanpost.
Alright, confess-how many goals are you going to make this year?
"I'm not going to tell!"
Well can you at least guarantee fifty?
"No way. I have a different objective. To win."
by capsyoungguns on Nov 18, 2010 6:15 PM EST up reply actions
Be it known that on this day, in the 118th year of our Lord Stanley’s Cup, that we here: residents, members of standing, and the governing bodies of Japers’ Rink and surrounds demesne, hereby bequeath unto Bald Pollack, Ye Olde Holy Stirrer of Shit.
Wield this power with care for the good of all the people of Japers’.
Country Gentlemen's Pig Fertilizer Gazette
Dunny-on-the-World
by Boggles on Nov 18, 2010 6:16 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
Someone really needs to convince Stephen and Russell to add a F&B/D’oh segment to JRR.
The Artist Formerly Known as CP2Devil.
Links guy at Five For Howling.
Sorry I guess I sidetracked the discussion a bit. I was tyring to highlight that Ovechkin and Knuble have not been on the plus side of the ledger as much this year. I don’t have the time right now to go game for game…but Ovechkin, specifically, has been on the wrong side a ton this year.
I don’t have the time right now to go game for game…but Ovechkin, specifically, has been on the wrong side a ton this year.
Ovi has been negative Corsi (during 5v5) 9 times this year, positive 8 times and zero once.
However, when he is on the ice he has outchanced the opposition 10 times, been zero twice and negative differential 6 times.
Blogger for Russian Machine Never Breaks (RMNB) and WaPo's Capitals Insider
I also log the Caps scoring chances for 2010-11. The summary spreadsheet is posted on Google Docs.
Follow me on Twitter @ngreenberg
by 5ive Hole on Nov 18, 2010 12:18 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Let’s step back and take a breath. Coming into this season, everyone knew the Caps had issues at 2C. The alternatives were Tomas Fleischmann (the presumptive favorite), Marcus Johansson, and Mathieu Perreault.
Well, here we were heading into Game 19 last night, and what we learned was that Fleischmann and Perreault were a bit inconsistent in the role (you could argue reasonably that Perreault had little opportunity to show his stuff, but he also can be — and was — sent down to Hershey because he could be).
With Fleischmann taking his (cough) “turn” at sitting for a night, it was an opportunity to give Johansson a night in the spotlight against a team that does not pose the problems of a Philadelphia or a Pittsburgh, which are much stronger down the middle than Buffalo.
And, there is this. Fleischmann has played 18 games this year, 278 in his career. True, not all of them were as a center, but the Caps have by now a book on what he is good at and not so good at. Perreault has played in three games this season, 24 for his career with the Caps. He has finished his “cup o’ coffee” with the team. Johansson went into last night’s game with eight games of experience in North America. As much as Johansson is learning the ropes of the game in North America, the Caps are still in the early stages of learning what they have in Johansson.
I think it is much better for Johansson and the Caps to get these chances now, when the Caps have the luxury of choice (not to mention their standings position), then to have to take this look in March — out of necessity — if the Caps should have injury or other problems.
I’m not seeing a down side to looking at Johansson in that role for a game or two (or three) to see where he is and where he needs to go.
What I saw was this:
1. Yes, he is a fine skater
2. He competes along the boards, but he hasn’t developed his game enought to do battle there effectively
3. He is obviously on the learning curve with respect to the rink. It requires that decisions be made much more quickly than perhaps he is used to, and his decision making reflects this, especially at the offensive end of the ice. He put himself in difficult position precisely because his decision making isn’t coming quickly enough. When that improves, so will his offense.
4. He is already a competent defensive player at his position, and although faceoffs are a problem, he shows some improvement (Backstrom wasn’t much in this area when he started, either)
That the Caps are as good as they are affords them a bit of a luxury to look at Johansson in a responsible setting. I’m not so much worried about the player he is right now as anxious to see what he will be in March. He won’t be Nicklas Backtrom, not even the rookie version of him from 2007-2008. But if he — and the Caps — can withstand the growing pains now, perhaps he will be that much better in March. If he doesn’t improve, it will focus the Caps’ thinking in terms of making roster moves (i.e., trades) to improve that position.
If you've read this far...seek help.
by ThePeerless on Nov 18, 2010 12:43 PM EST up reply actions 9 recs
Let’s step back and take a breath.
Honestly? When I step back and take a breath, I see a hockey team that will have a tough time making it out of the first round of the playoffs with this coach and this roster. Boudreau’s system puts a ton of pressure on the center, because the wings don’t drop down to support the breakout – at least they don’t when the Caps look bad. This means it’s the center and the D against the forecheckers. Right now, the Caps rely overmuch on Backstrom.
Either the system changes (more defensive zone puck support, fewer stretch passes and jailbreaks) or the personnel changes (#2C), or it’s another playoff disappointment.
I feel like channeling Rick Pitino and pointing out that Adam Oates and Dale Hunter aren’t going to walk through that door.
And I hear you talk the talk, but I don't see you walk the walk and I still don't believe a thing you say.
by D'ohboy on Nov 18, 2010 12:48 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I’m not sure why we’re conflating “MoJo’s development” and “Caps are all set down the middle.”
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
I’m not so much worried about the player he is right now as anxious to see what he will be in March. He won’t be Nicklas Backtrom, not even the rookie version of him from 2007-2008. But if he — and the Caps — can withstand the growing pains now, perhaps he will be that much better in March.
I’m not sold on the idea that MoJo’s development obviates the short-term need for a center, as was implied in the cited sentence.
And I hear you talk the talk, but I don't see you walk the walk and I still don't believe a thing you say.
what is the urgency?
If you've read this far...seek help.
by ThePeerless on Nov 18, 2010 12:57 PM EST up reply actions
Right now? Not much as long as the Caps keep winning. On the other hand, the constant shuffling of centers makes it pretty clear that the coaching staff and organization as a whole isn’t satisfied with the play of the centers thus far.
This season? The Caps are hosed with their current C depth chart, barring Johansson miraculously turning into Backstrom circa 2008.
And I hear you talk the talk, but I don't see you walk the walk and I still don't believe a thing you say.
But isn’t it better to maximize your information (i.e. be as sure of what you have and don’t have) before going out and trying fill holes that may or may not exist?
I have a very hard time seeing MoJo as a 2C come April. But I could see him as a 3C, perhaps. But I’ll never know if the team doesn’t take a look at him between now and then.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
Totally agree with your second paragraph. So why isn’t he playing there, building chemistry with those wingers?
"I would feed them lefts until I was pretty much tired of doing it." - Alan May, JRR, 10.16.2010
Heh, that’s BB’s plan with his constant shuffling. If everyone plays with everyone it allows for complete team chemistry in any possible situation that could ever happen.
Think twice before you speak, and then you may be able to say something more insulting than if you spoke right out at once.
This can’t be stressed enough, particularly with BB alluding to this in his post-game presser last night.
"DON'T SAY THAT! Please! That is the worst, most stupid thing anyone could say! Cause it quite clearly isn't "only a game." I mean if it was do you honestly think I'd care this much?"
by Bald Pollack on Nov 18, 2010 1:37 PM EST up reply actions
Except, even if you think he’s slumping, Ovi’s not a 3rd line winger
"I would feed them lefts until I was pretty much tired of doing it." - Alan May, JRR, 10.16.2010
Has nothing to do with Ovi IMO but everything to do with the centers he has. Remember Belanger on the top line in the sixth game.
Alright, confess-how many goals are you going to make this year?
"I'm not going to tell!"
Well can you at least guarantee fifty?
"No way. I have a different objective. To win."
by capsyoungguns on Nov 18, 2010 1:55 PM EST up reply actions
Right. It’s not sacrificing whatever roles the stars have, it’s seeing what can be gleaned (sp?) from those who play with him/them. God forbid if Backstrom ever went down from injury for an extended period of time.
"DON'T SAY THAT! Please! That is the worst, most stupid thing anyone could say! Cause it quite clearly isn't "only a game." I mean if it was do you honestly think I'd care this much?"
by Bald Pollack on Nov 18, 2010 2:02 PM EST up reply actions
Call me crazy, but I saw this roster move not as a way to specifically experiment w/ MarJo (although it was a nice opportunity to do so) and not as a way to jumpstart Ovie…but as a demotion for #8, temporary of course, without actually demoting him.
Any line with him on it becomes the default “top” line, but let’s not kid ourselves – last night the top line was 21-19-28. Meanwhile Ovi was out there with Knuble (a guy who’s been knocked down to the 2nd and 3rd lines many times this season) and MarJo (a rookie who has never played above the 2nd line for any prolonged amount of time).
Just my read on it. Feel free to rip it to shreds. :D
If anyone needs me, I'll be at Kettler.
by Becca H on Nov 18, 2010 2:06 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Maybe I’m naive but I tend to take somewhat at face value what BB said, that he wanted to see if Mackan could play as well as he did in the Boston game just before his injury.
And today in WaPo story BB discussed how early in the season was a good time to experiment with line combos and potential chemistry.
I really didn’t read too much into Mackan on the line beyond that—a line combo experiment, one that I would rather see in November than in the playoffs.
Alright, confess-how many goals are you going to make this year?
"I'm not going to tell!"
Well can you at least guarantee fifty?
"No way. I have a different objective. To win."
by capsyoungguns on Nov 18, 2010 2:19 PM EST up reply actions
I generally do, too (to a certain extent), but with something like this I don’t know that he’d go so far as to say “yeah, we’re demoting our captain/best player because he’s playing like crap”.
Again, just my read on it – and I agree this is a great time to try out something like MJ90 on the top line, because while I think we all know Backstrom will be up with Ovi for the long haul, god forbid he gets injured and Marcus HAS to play up there…probably best if it’s not for the first time when you have no option to switch back if it fails.
If anyone needs me, I'll be at Kettler.
No rip at all; an interesting take on last night. BB has called out Ovi in public before, but never demoted him. Definitely a possibility.
"I would feed them lefts until I was pretty much tired of doing it." - Alan May, JRR, 10.16.2010
I was buying into the AO getting demoted theory until I saw that he had the most ice time of any Caps’ forward.
by Kolzilla on Nov 18, 2010 2:26 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Yeah, I checked that too…but consider that he still skated under 20 minutes, and that Sasha’s TOI was only about 30 seconds less (which obviously includes PK time as well).
How often do you see BB cut his time like that? It’s been more frequent lately, and it’s hard to tell whether it’s because the team as a whole is playing better, allowing Bruce to roll four lines, or because Ovi’s playing like crap.
If anyone needs me, I'll be at Kettler.
It’s true, I hope it’s a combination of BB reigning in the young guns’ minutes and also trying to wake AO up. Option C is a nagging injury.
I also thought it was a result of having so few PPs.
Alright, confess-how many goals are you going to make this year?
"I'm not going to tell!"
Well can you at least guarantee fifty?
"No way. I have a different objective. To win."
by capsyoungguns on Nov 18, 2010 2:31 PM EST up reply actions
That’s exactly how I’ve felt about this season coming into it.
I’ve had some friends who are Pens fans saying “look what super sHERO did to improve the team in the offseason, why didn’t the Caps do anything?”
When it comes down to it the Caps roster is quite a bit different than in the playoffs last year (for better or worse…) and there is a lot of development with the players as well as learning from the management side to see what actually needs to be done come trade deadline time.
I really believe GMGM will sell the farm this year if he needs to, to shore up some gaps.
Think twice before you speak, and then you may be able to say something more insulting than if you spoke right out at once.
And really, when they went to the Cups, and even last year, the majority of the work Shero did was at the deadline. This is really the first time he made serious off-season moves and that’s because they had more money and more clear holes.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
I don’t think he’s going to be a very good 3C by the end of the season, either. The tools are there and it’s possible he’s adequate in that role, but I don’t think he’s yet physically strong enough, or yet crafty enough, to do what a C has to do in the NHL. I think he’ll get there and I think he’ll get there sooner rather than later…as long as later doesn’t mean this year.
It’s the exceptional 19 year old talent that can make the adjustment to the NHL in one year without getting absolutely shelled until they’re 20 or 21. I don’t think MarJo is that talent and while I think he’ll be fine when he’s older, he ain’t there yet and he’s not all that close.
I’m fine with him getting NHL minutes and adjusting, but if he’s Plan A (or even a high-probability Plan B) heading into the playoffs, the Caps are going to have a real tough time against any team with center depth.
"Essentially, all models are wrong, but some are useful" George E.P. Box
by Knee high to a duck on Nov 18, 2010 2:50 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I wouldn’t say hosed until the trade deadline is passed. They’ve still got a hole at 2C that needs to be filled no doubt, but I’m not sure what that has to do with playing MJ at 1C for a game or two in November.
The Artist Formerly Known as CP2Devil.
Links guy at Five For Howling.
2007-2008 was a “hey, maybe we can make the playoffs” year. 2010-2011 is a “this team is a solid cup contender” year. With FA, how many years will we have that opportunity?
"I would feed them lefts until I was pretty much tired of doing it." - Alan May, JRR, 10.16.2010
Which is why the realization that the team is fundamentally flawed is depressing as all hell.
And I hear you talk the talk, but I don't see you walk the walk and I still don't believe a thing you say.
I don’t even think this is our “all or nothing” year. If we make a run then great, but this team is going to be at its best when our defensive corps is mature and when Ovechkin/Backstrom have a couple more seasons under their belts and our C prospects start paying dividends. Maybe Neuvirth or Holtby blossoms by then as well.
I just think that given the youth and really immaturity, plus the lack of C depth this year it’s going to be tough.
what is the urgency?
Winning “the right way” and ironing out issues when one can still fix them. Imagine if the Caps could have made the Corvo trade a bit earlier and learned before the deadline that he wasn’t working?
by red army line on Nov 18, 2010 1:10 PM EST up reply actions
I’d prefer noting waiting until the deadline to make certain moves (I don’t see adding a top-four defenseman as having been successful for teams in that regard), but there are still 40 or so games left until the deadline. If the Caps make a correction at the mid-way point (not unlike what they did in bringing Jason Chimera in last year) it would provide ample time to integrate new assets. And it would still leave 20 or so games from now until then to do evaluations
If you've read this far...seek help.
I don’t think Corvo failed because he didn’t have time to integrate into the system. I think Corvo failed because he played with no nuts.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
I don’t have much of a point, but it is a little unsettling how at the same time you are arguing that the GM must see the flaws here and can be expected to upgrade the team before the playoffs you are ripping last season’s upgrade for how much he blew.
Happily, past results do not guarantee future performance!
I guess.
"This guy is an android. He's not human....Oh my goodness."
Ripping last season’s upgrade is a combination of hindsight and that the perception was that GMGM overpaid for a position the Caps did not need. Yes yes, the team needed (and needs) a top-4 dman…just not one that could be considerd Tom Poti-lite.
I don’t think GMGM even overpaid.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
There’s some thought out there that this year’s draft is going to be a pretty deep one and that second round picks are going to be pretty valuable. If that’s the case, then GMGM might have overpaid.
It’s an odd numbered draft, so there wasn’t a ton of hope in the first place :-P.
by DrinkingPartner on Nov 18, 2010 3:03 PM EST up reply actions
I’m glad GMGM did what he did, and I liked the move at the time. It just didn’t work out. Not sure how you could argue otherwise. I’m saying the reason it didn’t work out is because Corvo didn’t look like he cared, not because GMGM did anything wrong.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
Yeah, I wasn’t focused on blaming GM, though I was a little loose in how I wrote. More just commenting on the uncertainty we face. We need to upgrade, but upgrades don’t always work out. Just the nature of things.
But I want to win this year.
Just to keep the comments on this site readable if for no other reason . . .
"This guy is an android. He's not human....Oh my goodness."
Right, you never know how the additions will work out, you can only ask that the GM try to make good calls. Shero was applauded for getting Ponikarovsky for very little in return. How’d that work? There’s no sure thing. I also think that’s why it makes sense to let the team play out and only make moves when you are sure of what you need.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
Heard on the radio last week that a lot of GMs say they prefer to wait until the quarter-season mark to really evaluate their teams. Makes sense to me.
Also, I’m completely freaked out because I agree w/ a lot of what you’ve said over here, too. I might have to go hide under my desk.
If anyone needs me, I'll be at Kettler.
Yeah. Something is wrong today.
And yeah, Thanksgiving is generally the point where GMs start to make serious decisions about the team, as far as I’ve always heard. (Coincidentally, that’s when GMGM decided Hanlon wasn’t the right coach for the team.)
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
…and most likely about the time last year that he started considering Jason Chimera. I’d prefer that any changes be made well before the deadline, if possible.
by mechanicsville on Nov 18, 2010 5:00 PM EST up reply actions
Either way, my point (just to clarify) is that given more time the Caps could have seen that he wouldn’t work out and made another trade.
by red army line on Nov 18, 2010 3:06 PM EST up reply actions
The funny thing is, one of the things that Mackan did best was skate the puck from D zone to O zone. There are plenty of flaws, but he’s actually been pretty solid on the breakout/transition.
I agree with a lot of what you’ve said, and I’ve said the same stuff before. I just can’t understand why the alarm bells are ringing right now. We looked at this current roster in training camp and we knew there were holes. We said that Mackan probably wouldn’t be the savior. Now, with 9 games under his belt and an injury in between, you’re all worked up again? I’ve been going through this entire season with a fundamental belief that this is not the roster that is going to enter the playoffs. GMGM has to know it’s not good enough. The fans don’t think it’s good enough. So enjoy the ride, have some patience, and wait for reinforcements, whoever they may be.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
by Rob Parker on Nov 18, 2010 2:34 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
The Caps set the “alarm bells” last night by putting him up with Ovi.
"I would feed them lefts until I was pretty much tired of doing it." - Alan May, JRR, 10.16.2010
Was referring to F&B’s comment:
I just can’t understand why the alarm bells are ringing right now.
"I would feed them lefts until I was pretty much tired of doing it." - Alan May, JRR, 10.16.2010
Right, I was hoping you’d explain how an experiment of a 19 year old in the 18th game (his 9th game) of the season on the top line with a struggling superstar and an even older Mike Knuble was the same as alarm bells :-).
Seriously, I don’t think there are any important inferences to be gleaned from that.
by DrinkingPartner on Nov 18, 2010 3:01 PM EST up reply actions
I just can’t understand why the alarm bells are ringing right now.
Something about last night’s game, and the 10 or so games that preceded it just set alarm bells off in my head. The stellar play through one period. The Keystone Kops routine in the second. The clinging for dear life in the third. All against a team with a pop-gun offense. It looked bad, especially on the heels of giving up a bunch of goals to Atlanta.
I continually get the sense watching this team that when they win, they win as individuals (Ovie, Semin, Backis, Green or Neuvy has a great game), but when they lose, they lose as a team. It looks like 2009-10 all over again, and not in a good way. I fully realize that Ovie won’t keep playing like this and that we should be happy that the team is winning. At the same time, the regression of the PK and the loosey-goosey play in their own end 5v5 has me worried that we’re in for another playoff flameout barring major coaching or personnel changes. Moreover, those changes need to happen sooner, rather than later.
I really hope I’m wrong, but the more I watch this team, the more I’m convinced I’m right.
And I hear you talk the talk, but I don't see you walk the walk and I still don't believe a thing you say.
Ignoring that Buffalo was 4-0-1 going into last night. Make fun of their offense all you want, but the reason it looked bad was because they had been missing guys to injury and Vanek had been slumping. They got Pomminville back and Vanek has heated up. They don’t have a ton of elite names, but it’s a team that can roll a bunch of balanced lines. They also get a lot of offense from the blueline.
The whole second wasn’t even bad. The first 5 minutes the Caps controlled the play. And the third was pretty good. They “hung on for dear life” in the end when BUF got a PP and then pulled the goalie, but isn’t that the kind of lead we want them to hold?
Win as individuals? On the heels of a game where we had zero great individual performances and the third line was the best line on the night? When our PK stepped up when it had a huge kill on the line? When Neuvy locked it down in crunch time despite having a shaky second period?
Pens changed coaches late and won. Devils have done it too. If a coaching change happens it doesn’t have to happen tomorrow.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
They also get a lot of offense from the blueline.
My fantasy team thanks Jordan Leopold for his contributions, but when he’s your #1 defenseman, you’re in trouble. The Sabres simply aren’t a powerhouse team, no matter how you want to spin it. Pominville looks like he’s completely forgotten how to play hockey, and Stafford is still out.
The Caps were badly out-shot, which is part of getting an early lead, but the systems play completely broke down in the second and though improved in the third, still wasn’t great.
I don’t see how you could watch the last few games and think the Caps are winning in a fashion that would give you confidence going into the playoffs. They’re playing the way that they’ve played the last couple seasons – trade chances with the other team and rely on a higher overall skill level to come out on top. Works great in the regular season.
And I hear you talk the talk, but I don't see you walk the walk and I still don't believe a thing you say.
Who said anything about a powerhouse? You said popgun offense, and I said they were hot. They were hot. 4-0-1 in the last five averaging 3 goals a game over that span. They have 40 points from the blueline, Caps have 41.
I don’t see how you could read anything I wrote and think I’m confident about the team and the playoffs. I just don’t see what last night changed, and why one game with Mackan on the top line is such a big deal. I also don’t think last night was really a “trade chances” game. It’s just odd that you use last night as some prime example of our flaws, or a reason that Mackan is being misused.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
I think this has gotten beyond twisted around.
OFB posted a video criticizing the development path the team chose for MJ. Someone said that they were being stupid. I pointed out that I actually agreed with OFB – this probably isn’t the best development path; I’d prefer he learn the trade in the AHL.
My comments on Johansson as the #1C being a failure stand apart from that as point #2: It was a nifty experiment that didn’t work. If BB reprises it, I’m cool, but I doubt it will last. He’ll be back to skating on the 3rd line in a week.
Which brings me to point #3: if Mackan’s going to skate 3rd-line minutes and get no special teams time, I’d prefer that someone else fill that role so that he can learn those things in Hershey.
Which brings me to point #4: Mackan ain’t gonna be our #2C this season. We need a legit #2C or we’re fucked. Looking at the trade market, I don’t see many available names that would be a huge improvement over 07-09 Fedorov.
Which brings me to point #5: barring a coaching change, we’re fucked.
And I hear you talk the talk, but I don't see you walk the walk and I still don't believe a thing you say.
I don’t think a one game experiment counts as the full experiment or is particularly instructive, especially with a guy like Mackan that is still learning the ropes.
Mackan was getting special teams time when he was getting third line minutes. Has it occurred to you that some of last night may have been due to him coming back from injury?
I’m also waiting for the math that gets Mackan 18 minutes in HER.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
Realistically is there anything you could see from any team during November that would give confidence going into playoffs that are still 5 months away? Aside from points in the standings, I don’t expect much that is going on here in November aside from very small, subtle lessons learned by the younger guys will affect what goes on in 5 months.
Everything ends badly...otherwise it wouldn't end.
by Davethecapsfan on Nov 18, 2010 6:53 PM EST up reply actions
I’d be pumped if I was a PHI fan.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
Considering they snuck in by winning a shootout last game of the year and made it to the Finals? Yeah. But that’s just even more case in point. If they pile up enough points now they won’t have to worry about it later.
Everything ends badly...otherwise it wouldn't end.
by Davethecapsfan on Nov 18, 2010 6:55 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah. I’m not as worried about the final score. I want to see a team that can gain possession, whether in their own end or neutral ice, move the puck into the offensive zone without turning it over frequently and then have sustained offensive pressure.
Several things I tend to key in on are:
1) the quality and consistency of the breakout
2) in-zone defensive coverage
3) PK effectiveness
4) Forechecking pressure
Right now, one has been crap and 2 has been mediocre. 3 is trending badly. 4 has been ok, particularly last night with Chimmer/Brads/Steckel.
And I hear you talk the talk, but I don't see you walk the walk and I still don't believe a thing you say.
by D'ohboy on Nov 18, 2010 6:57 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
And of course you’re convinced you’re right. You’re D’ohboy.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
by Rob Parker on Nov 18, 2010 4:03 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
C’mon, F&B, that was a cheap shot, no? Or maybe I’m missing the friendly snark?
Patron saint of quality footwear.
When it’s between F&B and D’ohboy pretty much everything is in good spirit.
"Do you see my fist? It was fists like these that built quaint Canadian cities out of the harsh Canadian wilderness, etc. etc."
Not in Seattle anymore.
by SeattleCapsFan on Nov 18, 2010 4:46 PM EST up reply actions
Where can you find the data on O-zone shift starts vs other zones?
"When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro"
Both Behind the Net and Time on Ice have them. BtN expresses zone starts at the ratio of offensive starts to total starts outside the neutral zone, so OZ/(OZ+DZ). You can find the Timeonice breakdowns of starts by zone for each game if you have the game number from nhl.com.
timeonice
"Essentially, all models are wrong, but some are useful" George E.P. Box
by Knee high to a duck on Nov 18, 2010 4:39 PM EST up reply actions
You can also use scripts similar to the playershot scripts. I can’t remember if he’s updated them for this season yet but you find the syntax if you search timeonice how to on Google;)
by red army line on Nov 19, 2010 7:56 AM EST up reply actions
It’s not even Thanksgiving and he’s played 9 games (his third since coming back from injury). Wouldn’t this be the time to play around with the rook and test drive him to see what he’s got?
"DON'T SAY THAT! Please! That is the worst, most stupid thing anyone could say! Cause it quite clearly isn't "only a game." I mean if it was do you honestly think I'd care this much?"
by Bald Pollack on Nov 18, 2010 11:37 AM EST up reply actions
I don’t necessarrily disagree with this, but I would advise caution when looking at Corsi/Fenwick for one game. Corsi fluctuates wildly from one game to the next and can be misleading when taken out of context (i.e. looking at one game). For example, think back to Flash and Semin’s Corsi in the Montreal series last year. If you looked only at that one game out of context, you might think that those two were dominate. In reality, they were both taking low percentage shots through traffic from a considerable distance from the net. The moral of the story is that Corsi is better examined as a trend over the span of multiple games. That is not to say that the top line’s Corsi last evening was misleading. I just wanted to throw in my two cents about the topic.
"Do not be afraid to ask for credit, for our way of refusing is very polite."
by Laich It Or Lump It on Nov 18, 2010 11:44 AM EST up reply actions
I totally agree with your point, but when the data backs up the fact that the line looked bad at gaining or maintaining puck possession all night (which falls largely on the center), then it’s worth pointing out.
And I hear you talk the talk, but I don't see you walk the walk and I still don't believe a thing you say.
Definitely. I mostly just wanted to make that point, and have wanted to for a while. bagace and your comments just gave me the opportunity.
"Do not be afraid to ask for credit, for our way of refusing is very polite."
by Laich It Or Lump It on Nov 18, 2010 12:08 PM EST up reply actions
Bullshit. The AO line falls largely on AO playing well. Don’t give me this “it’s his center” crap. AO dominated with Chris Clark and Dainius Zubrus. He’s surely capable of dominating with Mackan and Knuble. They weren’t good last night, but that’s not a failure of Mackan.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
by Rob Parker on Nov 18, 2010 2:46 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Yes, but if Mackan and Knubs don’t play well, it’s easy for defenders to just focus on Ovie and force him to make plays on his own.
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
by twistedlogic on Nov 18, 2010 2:51 PM EST up reply actions
AO dominated with Chris Clark and Dainius Zubrus.
AO’s not playing well enough.
by DrinkingPartner on Nov 18, 2010 2:52 PM EST up reply actions
I agree to a certain extent. Ovie dominated with Chris Clark and Dainius Zubrus a while back. You don’t think teams have learned to defend Ovie a bit better by now?
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
by twistedlogic on Nov 18, 2010 2:54 PM EST up reply actions
You don’t think AO is playing worse right now?
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
I do…which is what I meant by “I agree to a certain extent.” I do feel that teams have learned to defend him much better, however. If Mackan and Knubs don’t show up, Ovie isn’t going to produce as well as he normally would.
Then again, he did have Semin and Backstrom on his line and wasn’t producing like he normally does either…
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
by twistedlogic on Nov 18, 2010 2:58 PM EST up reply actions
Fair enough :-)
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
by twistedlogic on Nov 18, 2010 3:03 PM EST up reply actions
In the long run, sure. But I’m sure that as soon as you separate AO and Backstrom there’s a readjustment period for both (shorter for 19 since he has Semin).
by red army line on Nov 18, 2010 3:08 PM EST up reply actions
Ok, but doesn’t that indicate that maybe we shouldn’t be up in arms about last night?
AO has been off all season, and the end of last season. We all have seen it. Does anyone think a 19 year old rookie was going to change that?
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
Nowhere have I said that Ovie is playing well. I simply pointed out that replacing Backstrom with Johansson likely made things worse, as evidenced by that line’s play last night, which is backed up objectively with the fact that they were heavily outshot while on the ice.
And I hear you talk the talk, but I don't see you walk the walk and I still don't believe a thing you say.
You blamed the poor puck possession on the center. I call bullshit.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
And I return the bullshit call. You know as well as I do that the center is largely responsible for getting and keeping puck possession, particularly in the defensive zone.
And I hear you talk the talk, but I don't see you walk the walk and I still don't believe a thing you say.
Not when it’s Alex Ovechkin. That’s the point. Was Zubrus the reason that AO had such dominant puck possession in years past?
In general, yeah the center is important. But no center carries AO. AO needs to find his game for his line to be dominant. Putting any blame on Mackan is just stupid.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
Ovie’s corsi numbers improved substantially when playing with Backstrom or Feds.
And I hear you talk the talk, but I don't see you walk the walk and I still don't believe a thing you say.
But the dominance of the line wasn’t all that different, and there was a lot more going on aside from just those two.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
Without data from prior to Backstrom’s arrival, it’s hard to make a meaningful comparison using stats. While I agree that Ovie can drive shot totals (and hence Corsi), I think that in general, centers are more important in driving puck possession.
My general point wasn’t to blame Johansson entirely for the experiment not working, it was just to say that the experiment didn’t work and that he likely contributed to that, given his statistical track record.
And I hear you talk the talk, but I don't see you walk the walk and I still don't believe a thing you say.
One game isn’t enough to say anything definitive.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
Yes, it’s enough to say that the experiment didn’t work for that game. It may or may not work better going forward. My guess is that it doesn’t last very long and that Mackan’s back on the 3rd line in a game or two.
And I hear you talk the talk, but I don't see you walk the walk and I still don't believe a thing you say.
Just FYI, Semin shot on average from a bit closer during the playoffs.
In reality, they were both taking low percentage shots through traffic
Did you mean “not through traffic”? Because screens etc might’ve resulted in an actual goal.
When there are more than just a couple of Caps with positive Corsis, there’s little excuse for AO not to be positive.
by red army line on Nov 18, 2010 12:35 PM EST up reply actions
“Through traffic” as in “through opposing defenders.” As in “their shots never reached the net.” My point was that from the Corsi/Fenwick numbers for that game (the highest of any skater), one might assume they had a great game and were generating some quality offense. This was not the case.
"Do not be afraid to ask for credit, for our way of refusing is very polite."
by Laich It Or Lump It on Nov 18, 2010 1:01 PM EST up reply actions
I wish I’d watched and been able to count scoring chances. If 5ive hole is around, perhaps he’d be willing to enlighten us.
by red army line on Nov 18, 2010 1:11 PM EST up reply actions
I think my only point was that AO is the driving force of that line, especially when Nicky’s not on it. He hasn’t been playing up to his snuff lately, and last night was no different. If he’d played a dominant game, Mackan’s numbers likely would have followed by AO’s sheer gravity. Johansson, based on my personal viewing of the game, looked fine, for him. In fact, he shined at a few points by chasing down/forechecking some pucks that Nicky’d never normally have a chance at because he’s so much faster. He’s not able to bring the game along with him, yet, but he’s looked miles better these past two games than he has all season.
by DrinkingPartner on Nov 18, 2010 11:49 AM EST up reply actions
In fact, he shined at a few points by chasing down/forechecking some pucks that Nicky’d never normally have a chance at because he’s so much faster.
He also promptly lost those pucks because he gets pushed off the puck way too easily. He lost a ton of pucks along the boards for the same reason.
And I hear you talk the talk, but I don't see you walk the walk and I still don't believe a thing you say.
I’m not saying he’s not a rookie, I’m saying that if his experiment on the 1st line lasted 3 straight games, he’d get better with all the extra time against better competition, rather than act as a detriment to the line, like Flash might/would.
by DrinkingPartner on Nov 18, 2010 12:02 PM EST up reply actions
But do you think he has already progressed past 3rd line NHL competition?
"I would feed them lefts until I was pretty much tired of doing it." - Alan May, JRR, 10.16.2010
Not even a little. One thing about that, though, is that his stride and posture is remarkably similar to Backis’, so it’s possible that BB put him there in an attempt to confuse the other team into thinking NB19 was literally on the ice for 75% of the game.
by DrinkingPartner on Nov 18, 2010 12:12 PM EST up reply actions
He’s not ready for it but in a different way than say Flash isn’t ready for it.
Johansson is an inexperienced center. Flash just isn’t a center.
And I hear you talk the talk, but I don't see you walk the walk and I still don't believe a thing you say.
Four Capitals selections make Deadspin’s list of bad 80s team music videos
Screw it…I love “Double Trouble”. I’ve been singing it all day.
The bastards hung me in the spring of '25. But I am still alive.
Box Seats Blog
Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Nov 18, 2010 7:44 AM EST reply actions
Capital Feeling FTW!
"DON'T SAY THAT! Please! That is the worst, most stupid thing anyone could say! Cause it quite clearly isn't "only a game." I mean if it was do you honestly think I'd care this much?"
by Bald Pollack on Nov 18, 2010 7:46 AM EST up reply actions
…great, now I’m going to have all 4 songs stuck in my head for the rest of the day. Which is fine, because they’re essentially all the same song with slightly different words :P
If anyone needs me, I'll be at Kettler.
Better that than the visuals (for most people anyway).
"DON'T SAY THAT! Please! That is the worst, most stupid thing anyone could say! Cause it quite clearly isn't "only a game." I mean if it was do you honestly think I'd care this much?"
by Bald Pollack on Nov 18, 2010 1:39 PM EST up reply actions
Oh, come on! Fake instrument-playing? Olie with the wimpiest mustache ever?? Neil Sheehy pretending to lip sync??? The visuals on those videos are just…awesome. And now I know what I’m watching when I get home :P (although I think I only have 2 of the VHS tapes)
If anyone needs me, I'll be at Kettler.
I said for most people, not me. Dino’s definitely got the frontman vibe going on there like he must have just come from a Whitesnake show or something.
"DON'T SAY THAT! Please! That is the worst, most stupid thing anyone could say! Cause it quite clearly isn't "only a game." I mean if it was do you honestly think I'd care this much?"
by Bald Pollack on Nov 18, 2010 1:48 PM EST up reply actions
Christ, here we go again…..
I poured spot remover on my dog. Now he's gone.
by Rather Bengt on Nov 18, 2010 1:49 PM EST up reply actions
Oh come on now….he was just trying to slide it in.
The bastards hung me in the spring of '25. But I am still alive.
Box Seats Blog
Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Nov 18, 2010 2:16 PM EST up reply actions
I’d love to see today’s team make remakes of these.
"Do you see my fist? It was fists like these that built quaint Canadian cities out of the harsh Canadian wilderness, etc. etc."
Not in Seattle anymore.
by SeattleCapsFan on Nov 18, 2010 2:27 PM EST up reply actions
maybe it was just where I was sitting in 213, but it seemed like there were more Sabres fans there than the visiting team usually has, or at least they were louder after those 2 goals
LET'S GO CAPS!!!
There were definitely too many of them, especially for a weeknight.
Totally unrelated, apparently Bruce is illegally in the HOV lane on 66 on his way to Kettler (on radio with Elliott). Kind of late by his standards to not be at the office isn’t it?
"It's always good to have vikings."
Does he have a hybrid?
The bastards hung me in the spring of '25. But I am still alive.
Box Seats Blog
Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Nov 18, 2010 8:17 AM EST up reply actions
No clue.
The bastards hung me in the spring of '25. But I am still alive.
Box Seats Blog
Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Nov 18, 2010 8:29 AM EST up reply actions
The bastards hung me in the spring of '25. But I am still alive.
Box Seats Blog
Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Nov 18, 2010 8:29 AM EST up reply actions
Nice.
Trying not to go too OT, though, I think the exception on HOV in Virginia applies only to cars purchased before a certain date, and I think it was more than a year ago. I suspect Bruce gets a new car every year.
"It's always good to have vikings."
The Hybrid Exemption in HOV lanes expires? My wife is driving in VA today. Shit.
The bastards hung me in the spring of '25. But I am still alive.
Box Seats Blog
Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Nov 18, 2010 8:43 AM EST up reply actions
From VDOT
Only hybrid vehicles with clean fuel plates issued before July 1, 2006 can use the I-95/395 HOV lanes during rush hours. All hybrid vehicles with clean fuel plates can use all other HOV lanes in Virginia during HOV hours, including I-66 and the Dulles Toll Road in Northern Virginia.
I have no idea how the cops can tell when your plate was issued.
OK, I’m done.
"It's always good to have vikings."
“Clean fuel plates”? Are you shitting me? What about people from out of state?
VDOT is balls.
The bastards hung me in the spring of '25. But I am still alive.
Box Seats Blog
Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Nov 18, 2010 8:53 AM EST up reply actions
"Clean fuel plates"? Are you shitting me? What about people from out of state?
You’re outta luck then.
LET'S GO CAPS!!!
Just finished listening to that interview. When it goes up on Youtube, it should be sent to every sports station in DC. That was a great interview. Solid questions about last night’s game (line changes, referee calls, etc.), about the upcoming schedule, and Eliot even got him to clarify Poti’s return (out for now, he’ll be back on the ice middle of next week earliest) and Varly (2 more games at Hershey), something he hasn’t done for the beat reporters this week.
Fifteen good minutes talking about the team, without a single reference to the Redskins or if DC is a hockey town.
"I would feed them lefts until I was pretty much tired of doing it." - Alan May, JRR, 10.16.2010
by bagace on Nov 18, 2010 8:39 AM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Rec’d for Eliot. Solid.
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Nov 18, 2010 8:48 AM EST up reply actions
for all his faults, Eliot is not only one of the Caps (and hockey) biggest supporters, and was even when no one else would have a player on their show, his interviews with the players and Bruce are regularly the most informative and entertaining on local radio. it would leave quite the hole if he went off the air.
Pledge Drive 2010-2011: SO KIDS CAN!! Help build a playground
Very true. In fact, back when I wasn’t really a hockey fan in the days of the blue, black and gold, his Olie interviews were arguably what got me initially interested in the game.
"Do you see my fist? It was fists like these that built quaint Canadian cities out of the harsh Canadian wilderness, etc. etc."
Not in Seattle anymore.
by SeattleCapsFan on Nov 18, 2010 11:57 AM EST up reply actions
in high school, I used to skip my first class if Olie was coming on! I’d be driving aimlessly around Gaithersburg waiting for the interview. I had to pay my brother so he wouldn’t snitch on me.
Pledge Drive 2010-2011: SO KIDS CAN!! Help build a playground
Meanwhile, props to the Junkies for scheduling a regular call in with Brooksie. Enjoyed listen to them ask him who he likes working on his stick….
Just trying to capture the spirit of the thing...
by dcsportsfan1 on Nov 18, 2010 12:09 PM EST up reply actions
It’s up! For those of us who are too impatient to wait for JP to link it tomorrow morning :)
Part One
Part Two
Pledge Drive 2010-2011: SO KIDS CAN!! Help build a playground
Their fans always travel well. Like a poor man’s Pittsburgh, only less hateable.
The bastards hung me in the spring of '25. But I am still alive.
Box Seats Blog
Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Nov 18, 2010 8:20 AM EST up reply actions
Nah, they live here.
A friend of mine is married to a Buffalo gal. Ran into him during the first intermission and asked how she was doing. He said she had a Sabres T-shirt on under her Caps jersey. Definitely conflicted.
"It's always good to have vikings."
Yup, like Pittsburgh fans, there’s a very large contingent of Buffalo fans that live here. True when there was a weekend game and the Caps weren’t selling out, there were large bus groups that came to games, but for a game like last night most of the fans were from this area.
I remember at the Backstrom Game the Pens fans came down in buses.
Worst game experience of my life.
The bastards hung me in the spring of '25. But I am still alive.
Box Seats Blog
Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Nov 18, 2010 8:35 AM EST up reply actions
/Jimmy’s Old Town Tavern’d
"I am... *grins* ... 'Nobody' "
- Odysseus
by war_capitals on Nov 18, 2010 10:40 AM EST up reply actions
Haven’t been there in ages, but I give mad props to Jimmy’s for having Labatt’s and Molson for helping me re-live my college days when I used to frequent there.
"If you want money go to the bank, if you want bread go to the bakery if you want goals go to the net." - #21
by snakegriffin on Nov 18, 2010 10:58 AM EST up reply actions
From where I sat, they seemed concentrated in the corners. Clotted together as they were, when they made noise, it was noticeable. But it didn’t seem to be much more than any other Eastern team that frequents VC. And truth be told, of any arena in the league, VC is likely to have a share of visiting team fans in it just because of the nature of the city. People don’t move to Pittsburgh carrying their sports team allegiances. They don’t move to Columbus. They don’t move to Minneapolis. But DC is a magnet for folks from other cities as a place to work in any number of sectors, not just government. It’s the nature of the city. It doesn’t speak to me as an issue of empty seats being gobbled up by folks visiting from those cities to see a hockey game.
If you've read this far...seek help.
by ThePeerless on Nov 18, 2010 8:21 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
If anything , it speaks to the intelligence of Buffalo fans. If you’ve got the choice of living in Buffalo or living in DC, the smart one is going to pick Washington. On the other hand, if you see someone wearing a Caps jersey at a game in Buffalo, you have to wonder what went wrong in their life.
Buffalo Caps fans
Caps jersey in Buffalo?
That’s was me and my girls last year in the 3-0 shelling the Caps took.
What went wrong in their life? Nothing, the Army sent me up North 20 years ago and after country life, I could never deal w/ city/suburbia life again.
by Upstate NY on Nov 18, 2010 8:56 AM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Along with what I posted above, I know quite a few Caps season ticket holders who were raised as Buffalo fans or whose extended family are from Buffalo and come to the Buffalo games. Plenty of Buffalo/upstate NY fans in this area.
Something you will understand, there was also an MSU (Ryan Miller) contingent at the game.
I thought I heard a “Ho-bey” “Ho-bey” chant. Not a good night for the Michigan boys. Miller gets the loss, Knuble doesn’t record a shot attempt.
If you've read this far...seek help.
Maybe, but when UMinn folks do it, it just sounds like “Her-bie Herbie”
If you've read this far...seek help.
by ThePeerless on Nov 18, 2010 10:39 AM EST up reply actions
Yep. DC has always, and will always, attract many people from all over the country. There are so many people in this area from Pittsburgh, Buffalo, Philly, New Jersey, etc. I think people realize this, though. Hell, if I were a Caps fan and a season ticket holder, I would sell some tickets to out of towners, too. Get my deposit ready for next years’ tickets.
Living in Prince William County (shudder), I am surrounded by Steelers/Pens car stickers all the time.
Pennsylvania, by way of Michigan. I hate the Flyers and Penguins, and have no feeling at all about the Red Wings (unless the Caps are playing them, in which case I want them to lose, or unless they are playing the Flyers or Penguins, in which case I want them to win).
If you've read this far...seek help.
I was born within the city limits, baby!
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
I can’t count the number of times I’ve been at a reception or cocktail party or whatever and seen the realization dawning on someone’s face, “holy shit, I’m talking to a townie…”
Patron saint of quality footwear.
Or in the introductions, the question “where are you from” always comes up, as if “here” isn’t an option.
"I would feed them lefts until I was pretty much tired of doing it." - Alan May, JRR, 10.16.2010
I was born in Georgetown.
Ironically, the place I work has offices in Portland, Maine (where I am now) and DC. I’m fairly positive I’m the only person in the organization (of over 50 people) who is actually from the DC area, despite the fact that we have 30+ DC staff and over half of the Maine staff has spent time living in the district. I’m definitely the only Caps fan in the organization (whether in DC or Maine) too. Sadly, the only other hockey fan in my organization is a Penguins fan (from Pitt now living in DC, typical).
by BradleyFightingVehicle on Nov 18, 2010 10:37 AM EST up reply actions
I love getting the “OMG, a townie!” look. I’m pretty sure I was the only person at grad school who was actually born in DC (even though I was raised in MoCo)
Pledge Drive 2010-2011: SO KIDS CAN!! Help build a playground
I always get a note of surprise. “Oh, you’re from here! Wow.”
And I do say “I’m from DC” instead of “I’m from Bethesda, MD”.
You had me at no problem.
So do I, even though I’m a Greenbelt guy and not a Bethesda guy.
The bastards hung me in the spring of '25. But I am still alive.
Box Seats Blog
Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Nov 18, 2010 12:47 PM EST up reply actions
Sibley Hospital births, represent! And my daughter was born in my home in Tenleytown.
You had me at no problem.
I think that’s a myth. More transplants than the average city, probably. Most people not from here, doubtful.
Just trying to capture the spirit of the thing...
by dcsportsfan1 on Nov 18, 2010 10:02 AM EST up reply actions
I don’t have the CORSI numbers to back me up, but it’s definitely was more than the average city. Amongst longtime caps fans, though, I’d expect a higher proportion of locals.
You had me at no problem.
Actually that would be interesting to now. Most of the season ticket holders that sit around me share my demographic — grew up in a hockey city loving hockey and another team (Chicago in my case), moved to DC as an adult and gradually grew to love the Caps.
As far as transplants, I think that the % of transplants is much higher among professionals and those with higher incomes.
I’ve lived in several “magnet” cities (NYC, Seattle, Denver, Portland), and none of them matches DC for the percentage of transplants. Admittedly, the circle I run in is pretty transplant-heavy (mostly policy and military folks), and I live in an area of DC that tends to have a higher percentage of transplants and immigrants. Nevertheless, when I meet someone in the District who was born in the District, I’m surprised because it happens so seldom. I think that demographic changes as you move out toward the ‘burbs, but I’ve got no data to back that up.
I really think the issue with last night’s game is that ticket prices went up substantially this year for the 400 level (~32% increase), and there are a few games where you can recoup that: Buffalo, Pitt, Phil, NYR, Det, etc.
And I hear you talk the talk, but I don't see you walk the walk and I still don't believe a thing you say.
Seattle is very transplant heavy…it’s just that the transplants in Seattle do everything in their power to hide their transplantness for fear of being shunned.
"Do you see my fist? It was fists like these that built quaint Canadian cities out of the harsh Canadian wilderness, etc. etc."
Not in Seattle anymore.
by SeattleCapsFan on Nov 18, 2010 10:30 AM EST up reply actions
Again, I think it’s mostly about the crowd you hang in. As an undergrad at UW, I’d say about 70% of the people I knew were from Seattle or the surrounding ’burbs. The grad students I knew, on the other hand, were all transplants.
/trending OT/
And I hear you talk the talk, but I don't see you walk the walk and I still don't believe a thing you say.
“People don’t move to Pittsburgh carrying their sports team allegiances”.
Oh really?
I know you meant generally speaking.
by S h a g g y on Nov 18, 2010 10:21 AM EST up reply actions
More a case of fewer folks moving to Pittsburgh than you’d find moving to DC.
If you've read this far...seek help.
by ThePeerless on Nov 18, 2010 10:40 AM EST up reply actions
I don’t know if anyone else caught Brads on 1500’s postgame show last night but the team definitely noticed how loud it was when the Sabres scored. It was funny (…ha), he said something along the lines of “I had to check and make sure we didn’t score instead, it was so loud”.
Not a huge fan of the fact that they noticed, but they’re well aware of how red the crowd usually is – and he pointed out that he kind of liked it, having all those Sabres fans in town so our fans could rub it in when the Caps won.
Brads is The Man, btw. Just a great interview.
If anyone needs me, I'll be at Kettler.
Brads is The Man, btw. Just a great interview.
I let Mike and Mike know this in an e-mail, I’ll hold my breath waiting for a) even so much as an auto-reply and b) for them to even SAY the word ‘hockey’ on their show. That’s OK, we all know they’re a football show until early February, just figured I’d campaign for the guy who will undoubtedly be the star of the HBO series…
Hopefully this April the Caps won't enter the month like lions and leave like lambs...
by war_capitals on Nov 18, 2010 2:24 PM EST up reply actions
The Sabres travel well because people flee Buffalo at an astounding rate.
Mike Weber: Rejailed into the pressbox.
Everything wrong with the Sabres is Drew Stafford's fault.
so what is Semin thinking here?
<img src=“”http://www.flickr.com/photos/bridgetds/5186612512/" title=“IMG_3457.jpg by bridgetds, on Flickr”>
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I dunno, but Karl Alzner has the best facial hair in the business.
The bastards hung me in the spring of '25. But I am still alive.
Box Seats Blog
Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Nov 18, 2010 8:37 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Rec’d for truth.
"DON'T SAY THAT! Please! That is the worst, most stupid thing anyone could say! Cause it quite clearly isn't "only a game." I mean if it was do you honestly think I'd care this much?"
by Bald Pollack on Nov 18, 2010 8:38 AM EST up reply actions
000
I mean, you can’t have a beard better than this one. It’s impossible.
The bastards hung me in the spring of '25. But I am still alive.
Box Seats Blog
Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Nov 18, 2010 8:40 AM EST up reply actions
000
Alzner’s is still better
The bastards hung me in the spring of '25. But I am still alive.
Box Seats Blog
Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Nov 18, 2010 8:51 AM EST up reply actions
Plus, the fact that he’s like. . . 12 in that picture makes it even more impressive.
And I hear you talk the talk, but I don't see you walk the walk and I still don't believe a thing you say.
by D'ohboy on Nov 18, 2010 9:28 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
The oldest one, Barry if memory serves.
Alright, confess-how many goals are you going to make this year?
"I'm not going to tell!"
Well can you at least guarantee fifty?
"No way. I have a different objective. To win."
by capsyoungguns on Nov 18, 2010 1:56 PM EST up reply actions
Comparing the color of the “mo” in that facial hair from last spring to the “mo” in the picture above….yeah, I think he was the “young defensemen” that Stretch was alluding to in his funny story.
"I would feed them lefts until I was pretty much tired of doing it." - Alan May, JRR, 10.16.2010
His name was Jeremiah Alzner, and they say he wanted to be a hockey man. The story goes that he was a man of proper wit and adventurous spirit, suited to the hockey rink. Nobody knows whereabouts he come from and don’t seem to matter much. He was a young man and ghosty stories about the tall hills didn’t scare him none. He was looking for a Bauer stick, 102 flex or better. He settled for a 95, but damn, it was a genuine Bauer, and you couldn’t go no better. Bought him a good pair of skates, and gloves, and other truck that went with being a hockey man, and said good-bye to whatever life was down there below.
If you've read this far...seek help.
by ThePeerless on Nov 18, 2010 9:42 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
reminds of a little of Mr. Alriiiiiiiiiiight
If you want to survive out here, you've got to know where your towel is.
by ns on Nov 18, 2010 8:39 AM EST up reply actions
I like the trim job Erskine’s been doing. Very clean.
John Carlson - Glory follows him.
Six Beers Too Many Fantasy Team - BizNasty's Hobo Rodeo
I thought you weren’t allowed to trim during Movember.
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
by twistedlogic on Nov 18, 2010 9:01 AM EST up reply actions
He sure does. To think Alzner said at the beginning of November that he wasn’t too good at growing a mustache. Guess he forgot to say “relatively speaking.”
Alright, confess-how many goals are you going to make this year?
"I'm not going to tell!"
Well can you at least guarantee fifty?
"No way. I have a different objective. To win."
by capsyoungguns on Nov 18, 2010 2:00 PM EST up reply actions
Semin: “How are those words ‘Bridget DS’ floating in space there?”
Steckel: “What the?”
Alzner: Struck dumb
Woods: “Somebody get that thing off the ice!”
Erskine: “No sir, that just ain’t natural”
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Nov 18, 2010 8:54 AM EST up reply actions
The floating bacon is back again
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Nov 18, 2010 9:10 AM EST up reply actions
Many faces
<img src=“”http://www.flickr.com/photos/bridgetds/5186034773/" title=“IMG_3506.jpg by bridgetds, on Flickr”>
"/>
No one else on the team has as many faces as Sasha. In one picture he looks 12; in the next, 42.
Post Hot Karl.
And I hear you talk the talk, but I don't see you walk the walk and I still don't believe a thing you say.
by D'ohboy on Nov 18, 2010 10:17 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Not anymore you aren’t.
"Do you see my fist? It was fists like these that built quaint Canadian cities out of the harsh Canadian wilderness, etc. etc."
Not in Seattle anymore.
by SeattleCapsFan on Nov 18, 2010 11:52 AM EST up reply actions
Disapproving Sasha disapproves of floating bacon….
Washington Capitals 2009-10 = Quebec Nordiques 1994-95
--- D'ohboy
by MikeL-Pivonka on Nov 18, 2010 10:34 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Cobra Sasha about to strike!
If you've read this far...seek help.
by ThePeerless on Nov 18, 2010 10:41 AM EST up reply actions
He just realized that Erskine is going to give him the old Hot Karl.
And I hear you talk the talk, but I don't see you walk the walk and I still don't believe a thing you say.
by D'ohboy on Nov 18, 2010 9:27 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I don’t know about Semin, but Steckel, Alzner and Erskine could be dressed as cowboys and pass for Doc Holliday and the Earp brothers.
If you've read this far...seek help.
by ThePeerless on Nov 18, 2010 9:34 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Meh
Pretty disappointed watching Ovi’s performance last night. The offense will come, but for once, the haters were right regarding his defensive play. If he thinks this sort of play is good prep for the playoffs…
If you want to survive out here, you've got to know where your towel is.
Chris Botta and the Islanders
A bit OT but hockey and coverage related…from the outside, crazy watching the Isles stuff play out…
- Along with the roster/on-ice/coaching stuff…
- Billy Jaffe contract not renewed/dismissed (not sure which is accurate, but point is they didn’t want him back, he didn’t choose to leave from reports)
- Botta’s access becoming more and more restricted (http://www.islanderspointblank.com/)
- and now this tweet – following Botta’s post the other day about the blog being “closed indefinitely” – tweet by JeffMarek: “NYI pulls press credentials from @chrisbottanhl. The Isles are winless both on and off the ice it seems.”
That is remarkable stuff. You have to wonder if at some point the league has to step in. Or is it an owner’s absolute right to run his organization into the ground?
There’s precedent for this — Chicago was pretty poorly run for a very long time. And there’s an obvious conflict of interest, since the other teams in the league compete directly on the ice with the Isles so why wouldn’t they be happy with a terribly run organization that they can always beat in games?
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Nov 18, 2010 9:13 AM EST up reply actions
Or the Wirtzes.
The bastards hung me in the spring of '25. But I am still alive.
Box Seats Blog
Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Nov 18, 2010 10:12 AM EST up reply actions
Because at the same time they are in a collaboration to make the league stronger.
I don’t think they’ll do anything, but the Isles are a fucking mess. It even kind of pains me to see it. I really want them to stay on Long Island but they are doing the sports management version of a Plaxico Burress.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
Related, Don LaGreca losing his mind in that post is hysterical.
The bastards hung me in the spring of '25. But I am still alive.
Box Seats Blog
Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Nov 18, 2010 10:38 AM EST up reply actions
Jaffe is one of the best analysts in the game and Botta has always put out great stuff. Terrible moves by the Islanders.
Release the Mackan!
by Killer_Carlson on Nov 18, 2010 1:36 PM EST up reply actions
Terrible moves by the Islanders.
…
(sorry Dominik)
by red army line on Nov 18, 2010 2:10 PM EST up reply actions
Captain Ovi would like a word...
And could also use a caption.
You perhaps knew me better as "Your Nation's Capital." Same great commentary, now with 100% more transparency!
ugh, the refs were horrible in their positioning last night. One of them (I think this guy) set a pick against Ovie at center ice. There were two of them hanging out by the Sabres sin bin during a Buf PP and when the Caps cleared the puck it hit one of the two refs and dribbled to center ice instead of heading down to Miller’s end. And more than once a ref in the corners would get in the way of the Caps chasing a puck or actually get hit by a puck
LET'S GO CAPS!!!
when the Caps cleared the puck it hit one of the two refs and dribbled to center ice instead of heading down to Miller’s end
The booing when that happened was impressive.
You perhaps knew me better as "Your Nation's Capital." Same great commentary, now with 100% more transparency!
And well deserved.
I’ll add that no matter how much any given ref on any given night might deserve to be booed, they do have a tough job. We tend to forget that while the players take shifts, the official have to skate the entire night. Yes, they’re going to end up in the way of a puck on occasion.
"It's always good to have vikings."
I understand that on occasion they may get in the way, it just seemed like it happened a lot last night
LET'S GO CAPS!!!
Hey, I booed along with everyone else. Just throwing in the gratuitous praise.
"It's always good to have vikings."
I might have suggested last night that the linesmen, at least, should have a separate track just outside the ice where the can skate around the rink and still see everything but be out of the way.
…I was only half-kidding.
If anyone needs me, I'll be at Kettler.
I’d endorse that. The linesman stopped Chimera from getting off a good shot on one of those dump-and-chase plays they do with Chimera speeding after the puck. Not that he would have scored, but he would have had a great opportunity.
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
by twistedlogic on Nov 18, 2010 1:35 PM EST up reply actions
and considering that none of the zebras on the ice last night are rookies, it was absolutely inexcusable how frequently they were in the middle of play.
Pledge Drive 2010-2011: SO KIDS CAN!! Help build a playground
The trip they missed on Sloan was horrific. Bruce was so ticked about it he got into a heated exchange with one of them before the start of the third. On DC101 this morning, he said he felt they were reffing to the score and not the game and because it was 3-0 Caps, they didn’t want to call another penalty on Buffalo.
“What you say you no buy my DVD? Also, I’m mic’d up for HBO, can you give shout out to my girl?”
Just trying to capture the spirit of the thing...
by dcsportsfan1 on Nov 18, 2010 10:10 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Why can’t I see this picture?? The hilarity of these captions make me sad that I can’t…
"Do you see my fist? It was fists like these that built quaint Canadian cities out of the harsh Canadian wilderness, etc. etc."
Not in Seattle anymore.
by SeattleCapsFan on Nov 18, 2010 10:53 AM EST up reply actions
From Corey’s NHL.com article:
This could be Johansson’s first extended action next to Ovechkin on the top line.
I have no problem with Boudreau mixing up the lines in general, and I have no problem with Johansson centering the top line on a short-term basis. However, I am wary about this configuration over the long-term. Chief among my concerns is Mackan’s physical conditioning, because the top line is usually matched against the opposing team’s very physical checking line.
His core and upper body strength seem to be lacking, which is understandable given his age and level of experience. He gets knocked around with frequency and has already been injured twice. His leg strength is admirable, however, as his skating is superb. He has good acceleration, and can change direction on a dime while maintaining his momentum. It is definitely enjoyable to watch him skate, but given his core strength and propensity for injury so far, being matched against checking lines with regularity has me worried.
There is also the fact that Boudreau sat Marcus for latter half of the third period last night. I did not notice Mackan get injured, so it seems like this was a coaching decision on Bruce’s part. Ovechkin’s line is frequently called upon in late game scenarios. Mackan has to be trusted to skate those late-game minutes with a marginal lead if he is going to center the top line. Granted, this is a limited sample, but that bullet in the recap last night surprised me a bit.
Perhaps I am reading into this too much. Like I said, short-term, I have no problem with Johansson on the top line. I just hope Backstrom regains his rightful spot as first line center after this experiment has run its course. (Full disclosure: I have Backstrom on my fantasy team).
"Do not be afraid to ask for credit, for our way of refusing is very polite."
by Laich It Or Lump It on Nov 18, 2010 9:17 AM EST reply actions
Course with Bruce, “extended time on a particular line” prob only means like 5 games
LET'S GO CAPS!!!
we got spoiled after Knuble’s little “PLEASE STOP CHANGING LINES!” request. I’m sure we’ll all get used to the line o’ the day game again.
Pledge Drive 2010-2011: SO KIDS CAN!! Help build a playground
Course with Bruce, "extended time on a particular line" prob only means like 5 games shifts
If you've read this far...seek help.
by ThePeerless on Nov 18, 2010 9:38 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Right. I would not be surprised if by Friday’s game the lines were reconfigured and my concerns abated.
"Do not be afraid to ask for credit, for our way of refusing is very polite."
by Laich It Or Lump It on Nov 18, 2010 10:01 AM EST up reply actions
Mackan didn’t get injured, he was just a bit of a liability, so Bruce stapled him to the bench.
Last night was about what I’d expect from a 20 year old rookie playing on a top line, a little good, a little bad, mixed in with some ugly. What’s clear is that he doesn’t have the physical strength to compete along the boards and in front of the net. He also lacks the endurance to skate shifts with Ovie, as he was clearly gassed several times at the :30 mark of a :45-long shift.
And I hear you talk the talk, but I don't see you walk the walk and I still don't believe a thing you say.
When asked by Eliot this morning how he liked Johansson, Bruce’s only comment was “he skates well.” The physics of playing on the top line (longer shifts, tougher checking lines) can’t be good for a 20 year old playing for the first time in NA. Maybe OFB was over the top in comparing how the Caps are treating Mackan with how Philly treated Zubrus (and how they’re now treating Bob), but you have to wonder if it’s taking an early (and unnecessary) toll on him. I think everyone likes the fact that Carlzerson is being somewhat sheltered as they progress; is our need for a 2nd Line center so desperate that they’d risk injury in November to one of our best prospects?
"I would feed them lefts until I was pretty much tired of doing it." - Alan May, JRR, 10.16.2010
The injury risk is no greater here than it is playing with the plumbers in the A.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
You think so, with him playing on the top line? It’s one thing to shelter him with limited minutes on the third line, but up with Ovi and Knuble he’s playing against the opposing team’s best.
"I would feed them lefts until I was pretty much tired of doing it." - Alan May, JRR, 10.16.2010
I don’t think he’s long for the top line – it’s not a good fit for him. But I don’t think it’s greatly increasing his injury risk.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
It will be interesting to see how the team is configured on Saturday against the Flyers on the second half of a back-to-back.
You perhaps knew me better as "Your Nation's Capital." Same great commentary, now with 100% more transparency!
My money is on tomorrow night.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
Flyers starting Bob 2nite against the ’Ning. His 12th consecutive start.
You perhaps knew me better as "Your Nation's Capital." Same great commentary, now with 100% more transparency!
Christ. Even Duncan Keith is cringing at that amount of abuse.
The bastards hung me in the spring of '25. But I am still alive.
Box Seats Blog
Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Nov 18, 2010 10:53 AM EST up reply actions
they’re going to run that kid right into the ground. amazing.
Pledge Drive 2010-2011: SO KIDS CAN!! Help build a playground
We can only hope that they continue to mismanage that position, right? Maybe they’ll trade him to St. Louis???
Hopefully this April the Caps won't enter the month like lions and leave like lambs...
by war_capitals on Nov 18, 2010 2:27 PM EST up reply actions
Mine, too. Neuvy’s been too good at home, and it’s the Flyers.
by mechanicsville on Nov 18, 2010 2:19 PM EST up reply actions
is our need for a 2nd Line center so desperate that they’d risk injury in November to one of our best prospects?
Yes, but I wouldn’t put it in terms of injury risk, I’d put it in terms of developmental risk.
And I hear you talk the talk, but I don't see you walk the walk and I still don't believe a thing you say.
I really have a hard time seeing having MoJo here as a development risk. I’d rather he be playing with NHLers right now.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
Especially since we have the team make up and the standings cushion (knock on wood) to support any huge rookie mistakes he might make.
"Do you see my fist? It was fists like these that built quaint Canadian cities out of the harsh Canadian wilderness, etc. etc."
Not in Seattle anymore.
by SeattleCapsFan on Nov 18, 2010 10:32 AM EST up reply actions
Can’t agree with this enough. It’s not like this is a 20-60 team. They can afford to have a few projects.
The bastards hung me in the spring of '25. But I am still alive.
Box Seats Blog
Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Nov 18, 2010 10:34 AM EST up reply actions
Rookie mistakes do not concern me at this point. What does concern me is the fact that Ovechkin’s line is the principal target in opposing teams’ game plans. They skate the most minutes of any other line, skate against the most physical players the opposing team has to offer, and generally are marked men, so to speak. In essence, centering Alex Ovechkin is about as “trial by fire” as it gets at this point in the regular season. It is not something I want to see on a regular basis, but for now, let’s just see how the experiment goes.
"Do not be afraid to ask for credit, for our way of refusing is very polite."
by Laich It Or Lump It on Nov 18, 2010 10:42 AM EST up reply actions
No argument on that from me. I don’t dislike him being in the NHL, but I do dislike the idea of him being on AO’s line. That’s the equivalent to teaching a kid to swim by throwing him in the deep end. Ineffective teaching technique, and you risk the chance of an accidental drowning.
"Do you see my fist? It was fists like these that built quaint Canadian cities out of the harsh Canadian wilderness, etc. etc."
Not in Seattle anymore.
by SeattleCapsFan on Nov 18, 2010 11:01 AM EST up reply actions
He has the natural skill to stick in the NHL. By no means would I advocate sending him anywhere else.
"Do not be afraid to ask for credit, for our way of refusing is very polite."
by Laich It Or Lump It on Nov 18, 2010 11:09 AM EST up reply actions
Aw, how adorable…we both agree!
"Do you see my fist? It was fists like these that built quaint Canadian cities out of the harsh Canadian wilderness, etc. etc."
Not in Seattle anymore.
by SeattleCapsFan on Nov 18, 2010 11:12 AM EST up reply actions
I have to wonder whether teams will continue to put out their top checking line against a line of Ovie, Mackan and Knuble versus Backstrom, Semin and Laich. If it were me, I’d be more focused on stopping the “2nd” line.
NHL coaches are nothing if not creatures of habit. AO = 50-goal-scorer in the NHL and most dangerous offensive threat on the planet, at least as far as the rest of the league goes. He’ll draw top pair opposition. At least during the regular season when there’s significantly less time to game-plan for each opponent.
Patron saint of quality footwear.
Devil’s advocate, playing Nick and Sasha on the “second line” gives opposing coaches a dilemma of sorts. It makes it much harder to match up against us because we have two elite lines if AO is clicking. Think about what Malkin and Crosby do to other teams. Sure, teams probably still focus on Crosby, but that leaves Malkin free to run wild. Ultimately it led lots of teams to use their checking line against one of them, and their top D pair against the other. That left both of them against weaker opposition than if they were on the same line or if they didn’t have each other on the same team.
The key to the top line is Ovechkin. It doesn’t matter if it’s Mackan, Flash, Gordon, MP, Steckel, or DMG centering that line. If Ovechkin goes back to the level of play that won him 3 straight Pearson/Lindeys, then that line will be a force. If AO doesn’t, then that line is going to struggle. What does it say when we need to play Semin and Backstrom on the top line to carry AO?
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
I’d disagree. A few more performances like last night and he’ll get banished to the 3rd line. He’s not getting PP time and he’s not getting PK time anymore. He was stapled to the bench when the game was on the line. A smart short-term coaching move to be sure, but not one beneficial for Mackan’s long-term development.
At this point, he’s better off playing 18 minutes or so a night and getting special teams TOI down in Hershey than he is centering Chimera and Fehr (which is where I think he’ll end up again).
If BB wants to force-feed the kid, force feed him special teams TOI. He’s clearly an instinctually good penalty killer, and a few PP goals/assists might give him a bit of confidence. ’
Regardless, I think all of this is borne out of desperation to fill the #2C void, coupled with the realization that the trade well is dry for the moment.
And I hear you talk the talk, but I don't see you walk the walk and I still don't believe a thing you say.
“Banished” to a line for which he’s better-suited and will still get ~12 minutes a night playing with and against skill rather than plumbers. As importantly, he’ll be practicing and traveling with NHLers.
I totally disagree on the need to get him more TOI overall.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
I totally disagree on the need to get him more TOI overall.
So you think that just being around the NHL guys is more beneficial than TOI and situational TOI? If you’re worried about practice, I’d argue that he’s better off down in Hershey, since their weekend-heavy schedule leaves more time for mid-week practices and I’d imagine that French spends more time teaching the system and less time tweaking it, just based on who’s playing down there.
He looks lost most of the time. The only “plus” skill he’s displayed thus far has been his skating (which is “double plus good”). His faceoffs are weak. He’s unable to go into traffic areas and gain or keep possession of the puck.
All of these things mean that, when the game matters, Bruce is going to go away from him. He’s not going to get many faceoff opportunities. He’s not going to be doing the things he needs to improve on at game speed.
This isn’t an argument for Perreault, because he’s got many of the same issues and lacks the upside or defensive awareness. I just think that the Caps have painted themselves into a corner here and the only way out is in the form of a trade. There is no internal #2C for this year.
And I hear you talk the talk, but I don't see you walk the walk and I still don't believe a thing you say.
by D'ohboy on Nov 18, 2010 11:12 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
So you think that just being around the NHL guys is more beneficial than TOI and situational TOI?
No. I think 12 minutes a night in the NHL (and “just being around the NHL guys”) is more beneficial than five more minutes a night and situational TOI in the AHL. As a sidenote to that, what about the way the Bears have run their team over the last handful of years makes you think he’d get that ice in Hershey anyway?
I just don’t think there’s any reason to jump to conclusions about where he is right now given the injury and time off. I think we’d both agree that he looked very good in Boston right before the injury – where’s the harm in seeing if he can get back to that point and improve from there?
There is no internal #2C for this year.
I totally agree on that point, but I don’t think it has anything to do with what I’d assert is the best course of action for Marcus Johansson’s development.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
by J.P. on Nov 18, 2010 11:43 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I think 12 minutes a night in the NHL (and "just being around the NHL guys") is more beneficial than five more minutes a night and situational TOI in the AHL.
We’ll have to agree to disagree on this one. I think the extra ice time, greater number of practices and emphasis on player development in the AHL would benefit him. Admittedly, Hershey’s focus on winning over development is a bit of a hurdle, but if we called up MP or Aucoin, someone would have to take their ice time down in Hershey.
I think we’d both agree that he looked very good in Boston right before the injury – where’s the harm in seeing if he can get back to that point and improve from there?
I totally agree, I’m just beginning to think it was an anomaly. I’d give him a handful of games to prove me wrong, though. No harm in the short-term. In the long term, I just don’t think riding the NHL pine is the best way to develop a young player.
And I hear you talk the talk, but I don't see you walk the walk and I still don't believe a thing you say.
I don’t disagree that if he’s not progressing here, an assignment to the A is likely a better option than being here. I just think it’s way too early to say he’s not progressing here. Happy to revist in ten games.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
Even sitting the last ten minutes last night he had 15 total minutes. More than anyone on the bottom two lines (including the best line on the ice). 90 fewer seconds than Backstrom. How exactly is that “riding the pine”? Are you just going to characterize it however you want to make your point sound right?
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
You’re missing the part where JP and I were discussing a likely hypothetical in which he goes back to playing 3rd-line minutes with no special teams time.
And I hear you talk the talk, but I don't see you walk the walk and I still don't believe a thing you say.
I didn’t miss anything. Even on the third line he’ll get 12 minutes and I still don’t have a problem. I also think it’s funny that you’re hinging your argument on a hypothetical when objective reality flies in the face of your argument.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
Objective reality? Like the fact that, even after playing 15 minutes last night, he’s still averaging only 12:42?
That kind of objective reality? Or is there some other kind I’m not aware of?
And I hear you talk the talk, but I don't see you walk the walk and I still don't believe a thing you say.
Yeah, the objective reality that he’s nowhere near the bottom of the team on TOI. If that’s “riding the pine” then what is the other half of our team doing? The only guys that get more ice than Mackan are the stars, Laich, Chimera, and Flash. That’s it. That’s not my definition of riding the pine. DJ King rides the pine. Mackan is playing and being used cautiously so as to not put him in over his head. I call it responsible use, you call that “riding the pine.” If he was getting 20 minutes a night I’m sure you’d find a way to bitch about that as well.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
And Gordon. And Fehr. And we bitch about them not getting enough ice time.
And I hear you talk the talk, but I don't see you walk the walk and I still don't believe a thing you say.
There ain’t going to be a trade market for at least a month, though, and probably not for two. In the meantime, where’s the better place for him to be playing? Probably here.
Consider Hershey’s depth chart. Once Aucoin comes back, he’s going to push down every center in the organization, meaning that Mackan will be getting ice time on the third line with Boyd Kane and Kugryshev. If he’s playing at the NHL level, then he’ll be practicing with NHL players, learning the NHL-level system, and building chemistry. Either that, or they play him at left wing, where he’ll be buried behind Greentree and Willsie.
He might be getting some powerplay and PK time in Hershey, but that would really be the only “playing time” benefit he’d get in Hershey versus Washington.
Once Aucoin comes back, he’s going to push down every center in the organization, meaning that Mackan will be getting ice time on the third line with Boyd Kane and Kugryshev.
What goes down must come up. If Mackan goes to Hershey, a center will come the other way. Right now, Hershey’s C chart (when healthy) goes Aucoin, MP, Pinner/Beagle/Joudrey. If Mackan goes down, it likely means that MP comes back up and Mackan takes his place at #2C.
And I hear you talk the talk, but I don't see you walk the walk and I still don't believe a thing you say.
And MP is a better option? You already said this isn’t a call to bring up MP. What exactly does MP have that Mackan doesn’t? A little more offensive zone hockey sense, and a big drop in the D zone. Given the problems this team has, I’d rather live with the strong defensive player.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
I’m more concerned with the long-term development of Mackan than I am of MP. I think Mackan would benefit from gaining some confidence and spending more time on the ice in more situations. Right now, I’d almost rather see Flash or MP at #2C and take our lumps so that Mackan can spend more time practicing.
And I hear you talk the talk, but I don't see you walk the walk and I still don't believe a thing you say.
Practicing with non-NHL players, right?
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
And spending his time focused on learning the system. The kid is barely 20. I would like him to succeed in the NHL this year, but given the choice, I’d prefer he develop as a player. I’ve made it clear over and over again that if a player isn’t:
A) Demonstrably better than present options, or
B) Stands to gain nothing from the AHL,
then that player ought to be getting more ice time and instruction down in the A.
Right now, Mackan’s not demonstrably better than Flash. Sad, but true. He might be by the end of the season, but I don’t think he gets from A to B by playing ~12 mins/game as quickly as he might playing ~18 in Hershey.
And I hear you talk the talk, but I don't see you walk the walk and I still don't believe a thing you say.
Mackan is demonstrably better than Flash in the defensive zone, and if Flash isn’t scoring then what is his upside over Mackan? Exactly what complaints have you leveled toward Mackan that Flash solves? Soft on the puck? Hmmmm… Loses faceoffs? Hmmmm…. At least Mackan has double-plus skating, is a natural C, and can play in his own end. There’s also the added potential that Mackan could take a pretty rapid advancement in the offensive end as he learns to play in the NHL.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
And again, where are you finding this 18 minutes in HER.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
Mackan → HER
MP/Aucoin →WSH
Now, the HER C depth chart goes MP/Aucoin – Mackan – Pinner/Joudrey/Beagle.
As a #2C getting PP and possibly some PK TOI, he’d easily get 18mins/night.
And I hear you talk the talk, but I don't see you walk the walk and I still don't believe a thing you say.
But unless you explain why they’d lose Aucoin to waivers, that’s not really an option.
And then you have to explain exactly what is better about having MP on the Caps than Mackan. Basically nothing, so you just think it’s worth bringing up MP because it will be that much better for Mackan to play in HER.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
So you likely get a defensively worse team out of the trade off. No thanks.
I wonder if this whole thing ever comes up if BB hadn’t moved him to the 1st line last night.
The Artist Formerly Known as CP2Devil.
Links guy at Five For Howling.
He backchecks hard and I think he’s got a better read on what his assignments should be. But I also think that a big part of playing defense is coming out with 50/50 pucks and starting the breakout. Once he’s got the puck he can skate it out, but if it’s contested, then he’s in trouble. He’s not skilled enough yet to swipe it consistently with his stick a la Semin and he’s not strong enough to drop one shoulder and shield the puck with his body a la Backstrom.
The head is there, the effort is there, the physical maturity or outrageous puck skill aren’t, yet. He’s probably a year away from being a really effective NHL player in his own end; his physical maturity is holding him back right now.
"Essentially, all models are wrong, but some are useful" George E.P. Box
by Knee high to a duck on Nov 18, 2010 4:59 PM EST up reply actions
So you likely get a defensively worse team out of the trade off.
Marginally in the short term? Perhaps. Johansson is just brutal in terms of Corsi, so I’m not entirely convinced it would be such a huge step backward to insert MP at this point.
If we agree that long term development is what’s important, I think MJ90 benefits more from getting more ice time. F&B and JP disagree, and that’s fine. Personally, I’d rather see MP getting 12:30 in DC and Mackan getting 18:30 in HER until Mackan gets up to speed.
And I hear you talk the talk, but I don't see you walk the walk and I still don't believe a thing you say.
Gotta believe GMGM/BB’s requests would be duly granted by Yingst and Frenchie. Maybe there would be balking in late Spring, but not in Nov/Dec.
"I would feed them lefts until I was pretty much tired of doing it." - Alan May, JRR, 10.16.2010
They’re not going to ask. They let Hershey run things their own way because they recognize that their fan base expects winning teams.
If they were the type to ask, a) Sheldon Souray wouldn’t be playing in a Bears uniform; b) the Bears wouldn’t be leaning on Dylan Yeo or Patrick Wellar, both of whom are marginal AHL defensemen in their own right, and c) Sean Collins, Joe Finley, and Josh Godfrey would all be seeing regular ice time in Hershey.
I don’t really think he looks lost most of the time. That’s definitely hyperbole. Does he look uncertain of what to do in the offensive zone? Yeah. But his defensive zone coverage is fine and he definitely is not lost in the neutral and defensive zones.
And playing for the first 50 minutes of the game, even if he sits for the final ten of a close game, is going to allow him to do the things he needs to improve on at game speed. God forbid we get a blowout and BB has a chance to up his minutes, he’ll be in an even better position to work on those.
And yeah, practicing with NHL players and coaches is much better than playing 3C in the AHL.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
You don’t think the lack of special teams may have been because he’s a little out of shape after the prolonged absence?
I don’t see how playing in the AHL is going to have appreciably better results than the NHL. He may score more, but he can already skate at the NHL level and it’s all about him learning the rink dimensions and the style of play.
I just don’t see how you can argue that there may be a long term developmental risk to keeping him in the NHL.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
Andrew Cogliano and Sam Gagner.
And I hear you talk the talk, but I don't see you walk the walk and I still don't believe a thing you say.
Eric Duhatschek on the Ian White trade
In today’s Globe & Mail, Eric Duhatschek writes about how the Flames jumped the gun in trading Ian White to the Canes: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/hockey/in-trading-white-flames-pulled-the-trigger-too-soon/article1803683/
I poured spot remover on my dog. Now he's gone.
Agreed…Ian White made losing Phaneuf somewhat more palatable to the Flames. Now they they get to wash it down with Anton Babchuk, who won’t remind anyone of either player. My question is, how long is wait for GM’s queuing up to fleece Sutter senior, and where is George in that line?
"I don't care about winning the division or winning the President's Trophy. I just care about getting to the playoffs." --GMGM
CGY's situation salary capwise
One of the commenters makes the following point highlighting Sutter’s ineptitude:
R.Carriere
7:24 AM on November 18, 2010
It’s all a function of salary cap…and VERY POOR management. These are the guys on LTIR and not sure anyone quite knows when they will be activated.
Daymond Langkow: $4,500,000
Ryan Stone $ 500,000
Ales Kotalik $ 3,000,000
Raitis Ivanans $ 600,000
Adam Pardy $ 700,000
The Big Cap hits are Langkow and Kotalik= $7.5M and they will need to find space sooner or later. When and IF the LRIR guys come back, the Flames have to get rid of $5.5M in cap hit. Who will they be? What a mess!
And what about the off season bring backs of Tanguay and Jokinen? Tanguay is on target for a 20-25 goal season and Jokinen has…2 goals in 17 games. Together, they cost the Flames $4.7 M ( $3M for Jokinen)
And just HOW do you go about a blow up and rebuild? It seems the only guy worth his salary/cap hit is Rene Bourque. Iginla at $7M for 2 more years after this is now a big question mark.
This team is in worse shape than the Leafs. At least NEXT year Burke has $ 20 M cap space available while Sutter has only $ 2.6M with ths present group of only 18 signed.
I poured spot remover on my dog. Now he's gone.
by Rather Bengt on Nov 18, 2010 9:50 AM EST up reply actions
Jaroslav Halak's own goal last night
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6DSjhCWgqUg
I poured spot remover on my dog. Now he's gone.
Pretty sure his hand was shaking on that water bottle afterward. I forget what that means, but I know it’s important.
There's no 'i' in "team". But there's a 'nap' in "champion".
No foolin’. Underestimate at your own risk… Didn’t we chase him once in the playoffs? Didn’t seem to affect him in 5-6-7.
You had me at no problem.
Shaking hand in game 2.
Got chased in game 3.
Benched for game 4.
Came back strong in game 5.
Lights out in Game 6.
You know the rest.
"I would feed them lefts until I was pretty much tired of doing it." - Alan May, JRR, 10.16.2010
Don’t remind me about Hrudey Barasso Tugnutt Wregget Khabibulin Halak… thanks….
Washington Capitals 2009-10 = Quebec Nordiques 1994-95
--- D'ohboy
by MikeL-Pivonka on Nov 18, 2010 10:37 AM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Halak has been downright horrendous his last 4 games. I really hope he turns into the next Huet.
Release the Mackan!
by Killer_Carlson on Nov 18, 2010 1:48 PM EST up reply actions
Comcast already breaks their promise to televise every game in HD
Boy, it sure was funny hearing Al Koken brag about last night’s game being broadcast in “beautiful high definition”. Dear Comcast, taking your terrible low resolution CSN+ feed and broadcasting it on an HD channel in letterbox does not high definition make.
I should have guessed CSN would have pulled something like this. It’s 2010… C’mon… my eyes can’t take it. And nobody cares about the Wizards, seriously!
I had it in HD on Comcast Montgomery County.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
FIOS subscriber are ya?
"DON'T SAY THAT! Please! That is the worst, most stupid thing anyone could say! Cause it quite clearly isn't "only a game." I mean if it was do you honestly think I'd care this much?"
by Bald Pollack on Nov 18, 2010 9:54 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Ah, so this was limited to FIOS? Damn it, I take it all back Al Koken!
by _Skullduggery_ on Nov 18, 2010 9:57 AM EST up reply actions
DirectTV had it on CSN+ too so no HD. The high def has kinda spoiled me. Forgot that you can’t remotely see the puck moving in standard def.
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
by twistedlogic on Nov 18, 2010 10:02 AM EST up reply actions
CSN+ is worse than standard definition. It’s like a webcam feed. The audio bitrate is very low, and the resolution is way lower than SD. FIOS had a FIOS1HD channel which I used, but I guess they got the wrong feed. Anyways, apologies to CSN for blaming them! Although I have friends with COX in NoVA and they were not happy with the picture either….
by _Skullduggery_ on Nov 18, 2010 10:06 AM EST up reply actions
At least you can get CSN+… I’m on FIOS up by Baltimore, and I can’t get any Comcast Sportsnet of any flavor.
Photography: I Rock the Red
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by IRockTheRed on Nov 18, 2010 10:09 AM EST up reply actions
Ha! When I called Verizon last night (I’m in LoCo with Fios) to ask why the picture on ch501 was in SD, they’re response was it must be the provider of the feed (ie, CSN) isn’t sending it as HD.
"I would feed them lefts until I was pretty much tired of doing it." - Alan May, JRR, 10.16.2010
I seriously doubt that. Why would CSN not send something in HD knowing that their ratings would increase with such a broadcast. I’m guessing it’s Fios not willing to take up the bandwidth or go through some other techincal hoops to get the game on in HD.
Just trying to capture the spirit of the thing...
by dcsportsfan1 on Nov 18, 2010 11:30 AM EST up reply actions
Yeah, I had to decide whether to watch MSG feed in HD or CSN+ SD feed. Given who the PBP announcer is for the Sabres it was an easy call.
The Artist Formerly Known as CP2Devil.
Links guy at Five For Howling.
by Carl Putnam on Nov 18, 2010 10:23 AM EST up reply actions
COX in Northern Virginia got it in true HD.
Winterion Game Studios
Visit us online at : http://winterion.com
Boy, it sure was funny hearing Al Koken brag about last night’s game being broadcast in "beautiful high definition"
He was confusing that with looking out of his Thompson Creek windows.
If you've read this far...seek help.
by ThePeerless on Nov 18, 2010 9:59 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
What Al is used to
I poured spot remover on my dog. Now he's gone.
by Rather Bengt on Nov 18, 2010 10:04 AM EST up reply actions
I don’t know how he can see anything on that. We’re out of the Stone Age, Al.
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
by twistedlogic on Nov 18, 2010 10:12 AM EST up reply actions
000
I know what he sees
The bastards hung me in the spring of '25. But I am still alive.
Box Seats Blog
Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Nov 18, 2010 10:13 AM EST up reply actions
Al’s the best. He can spend all game shilling for all I care.
The bastards hung me in the spring of '25. But I am still alive.
Box Seats Blog
Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Nov 18, 2010 10:22 AM EST up reply actions
I was glad he limited his use of the word “glorious” last night to reasonable levels.
You had me at no problem.
I would love to have a throwback night if someone can find out whatever the heck happened to Mike Fornes. With old HTS graphics and everything.
The bastards hung me in the spring of '25. But I am still alive.
Box Seats Blog
Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Nov 18, 2010 10:26 AM EST up reply actions
Every time Al is in booth, like last night, I think of Fornes.
The Artist Formerly Known as CP2Devil.
Links guy at Five For Howling.
by Carl Putnam on Nov 18, 2010 10:30 AM EST up reply actions
000
Fornes also apparently plays Gordon Lightfoot in a Gordon Lightfoot Tribute Band
The bastards hung me in the spring of '25. But I am still alive.
Box Seats Blog
Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Nov 18, 2010 10:32 AM EST up reply actions
OT – When I worked at a record store on Queen Street In Toronto a few years back Gordon Lightfoot came in one afternoon. He had a little pug dog with him. He also asked to see the Gordon Lightfoot section.
I poured spot remover on my dog. Now he's gone.
by Rather Bengt on Nov 18, 2010 10:37 AM EST up reply actions
Well…somebody has to ask where the Gordon Lightfoot section is.
The bastards hung me in the spring of '25. But I am still alive.
Box Seats Blog
Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Nov 18, 2010 10:39 AM EST up reply actions
I was going to tell him but I thought he could read my mind.
I poured spot remover on my dog. Now he's gone.
by Rather Bengt on Nov 18, 2010 10:44 AM EST up reply actions
I’m just glad he didn’t come in after sundown and find you creepin’ round his back stairs.
The bastards hung me in the spring of '25. But I am still alive.
Box Seats Blog
Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Nov 18, 2010 10:46 AM EST up reply actions
Wreck’d
There's no 'i' in "team". But there's a 'nap' in "champion".
by redlineblue on Nov 18, 2010 11:35 AM EST up reply actions
There’s no way I could work a “Canadian Railroad Trilogy” gag into there.
The bastards hung me in the spring of '25. But I am still alive.
Box Seats Blog
Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Nov 18, 2010 11:37 AM EST up reply actions
That seems like it would be an unnecessary trip down some sort of carefree highway.
The bastards hung me in the spring of '25. But I am still alive.
Box Seats Blog
Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Nov 18, 2010 12:47 PM EST up reply actions
000
I think this is him doing tours (and books) of the Mackinac Bridge area.
The bastards hung me in the spring of '25. But I am still alive.
Box Seats Blog
Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Nov 18, 2010 10:28 AM EST up reply actions
Yup. I believe he writes for the Cheboygan Daily Tribune, a town just across the water from Mackinac Island. Pretty part of the country.
If you've read this far...seek help.
by ThePeerless on Nov 18, 2010 10:49 AM EST up reply actions
And he still owns the iconic call in Caps history…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sErlYdpSFco
If you've read this far...seek help.
by ThePeerless on Nov 18, 2010 10:53 AM EST up reply actions
My favorite part of that video is Huntsy drinking a diet coke during the interview.
The bastards hung me in the spring of '25. But I am still alive.
Box Seats Blog
Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Nov 18, 2010 11:02 AM EST up reply actions
Already sent my email to Verizon Fios. They were somehow able to show Nats/O’s games on MASN2, which overflowed onto channel 501. Not sure why they couldn’t do the same for CSN+. Nice to know Cox had it in HD cause that would be where I would head if they don’t fix this.
Just trying to capture the spirit of the thing...
by dcsportsfan1 on Nov 18, 2010 10:05 AM EST up reply actions
That is, the Nats/O’s games were in HD on Fios 501.
Just trying to capture the spirit of the thing...
by dcsportsfan1 on Nov 18, 2010 10:06 AM EST up reply actions
Interesting, let us know if you hear anything back.
by _Skullduggery_ on Nov 18, 2010 10:07 AM EST up reply actions
And nobody cares about the Wizards, seriously!
Blame Colin Cowherd. He made that game a million times more important than it should have been.
The bastards hung me in the spring of '25. But I am still alive.
Box Seats Blog
Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Nov 18, 2010 10:10 AM EST up reply actions
You know...
….Semin and Murkowski are practically neighbors, since Semin’s from Siberia and Murkowski is from Alaska. In fact, one noted Alaska politician can see Russia from her back porch… :)
Washington Capitals 2009-10 = Quebec Nordiques 1994-95
--- D'ohboy
Haha, I did think of that comparison when I read the Murkowski-Semin joke.
"Do you see my fist? It was fists like these that built quaint Canadian cities out of the harsh Canadian wilderness, etc. etc."
Not in Seattle anymore.
by SeattleCapsFan on Nov 18, 2010 10:41 AM EST up reply actions
He wrote her name in 500 times during the election, but the clerk couldn’t decipher Cyrillic characters.
If you've read this far...seek help.
by ThePeerless on Nov 18, 2010 10:50 AM EST up reply actions
Re NBC Sports:
SELL. There is no way in hell Alex used the word “mindset”. Next he’ll be quoting Dostoyevsky.
Or telling us the original title of War and Peace was War: What is it Good For?
The bastards hung me in the spring of '25. But I am still alive.
Box Seats Blog
Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Nov 18, 2010 10:40 AM EST up reply actions
Flash...
Have not seen any stories about his being dropped…but haven’t looked to hard. I don’t feel like we missed him…
If you are driving in the left hand lane and you are not passing, you are a #$@&$
Huh? He wasn’t dropped. He was a healthy scratch for one game. There was a front page clip post about it yesterday. It was his turn to sit according to BB.
Think twice before you speak, and then you may be able to say something more insulting than if you spoke right out at once.
really?
You’re going to parse my sentence and dispute my use of “dropped” and replace it with “healthy scratch”? My bad, guess he wasn’t dropped from the line up, he just wasn’t in it.
If you are driving in the left hand lane and you are not passing, you are a #$@&$
Sorry, I wasn’t trying to nitpick. I thought you were saying he got dropped from the team. Answered the rest of your lazy question though =]
Think twice before you speak, and then you may be able to say something more insulting than if you spoke right out at once.
My darned job teaching city kids the importance of studying, education and not dropping n, s and f-bombs in the middle of class gets in the way of reading every single link posted – thanks for doing some of the work for me.
I was surprised more hasn’t been made of it though. I guess after all the noise we’ve made about how useless he has been, once he was finally scratched it was the equivalent of the tree falling in a forest when no one is around to hear.
If you are driving in the left hand lane and you are not passing, you are a #$@&$
It’s just that everyone knows it’s only 1 game. If BB sits Flash tomorrow night as well, there will be plenty of noise.
But this is in no way a portent of future change.
You had me at no problem.
For those of you BizNasty fans, his Snapshot (these are brief 15 minute FSN shows) that was on Fox Sports Arizona last night is now posted online.
The Artist Formerly Known as CP2Devil.
Links guy at Five For Howling.
Nathan Gerbe
Maybe it’s the sheer novelty of the fact he is 5’5, but I was enjoying watching Nathan Gerbe last night for the Sabres. I especially enjoyed it when he was going into the boards and throwing his body at guys 6-7 inches taller than him. I was hoping to see him side by side with Sarge at some point but no dice.
I poured spot remover on my dog. Now he's gone.
Little known fact: Gerbe is actually Tyler Myer’s neck.
Many a night from yonder ivied casement, ere I went to rest,
Did I look on great Orion sloping slowly to the West.
by sydtron on Nov 18, 2010 12:59 PM EST up reply actions 6 recs
I bet that ’shop would be awesome.
The bastards hung me in the spring of '25. But I am still alive.
Box Seats Blog
Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Nov 18, 2010 2:17 PM EST up reply actions
Another Radio Hit
@SergeyCapsPR Catch Jason Chimera on @nhllive today at 1:30 pm
"I would feed them lefts until I was pretty much tired of doing it." - Alan May, JRR, 10.16.2010
too much man, baby!
Pledge Drive 2010-2011: SO KIDS CAN!! Help build a playground
by RedBirdie on Nov 18, 2010 1:15 PM EST up reply actions 5 recs
That’s amusing. I imagine the Pens scholarly announcing team cobbled together that phrase.
by mechanicsville on Nov 18, 2010 2:34 PM EST up reply actions
Did they decide to use Google Translate and do English-to-something and then something-to-English?
Washington Capitals 2009-10 = Quebec Nordiques 1994-95
--- D'ohboy
by MikeL-Pivonka on Nov 18, 2010 3:07 PM EST up reply actions
“[Nicklas Backstrom] was talking to me a lot on the ice, then he high-sticked me, so I kind of got the last laugh.”
Shaone Morrisonn, talking about coming back to the VC, and the Sabres’ 3-2 win last week.
You perhaps knew me better as "Your Nation's Capital." Same great commentary, now with 100% more transparency!
Great link. Have dinner with the old teammates then go out on the ice and become enemies.
Alright, confess-how many goals are you going to make this year?
"I'm not going to tell!"
Well can you at least guarantee fifty?
"No way. I have a different objective. To win."
by capsyoungguns on Nov 18, 2010 2:22 PM EST up reply actions
Shaone called in to 106.7 about a week or so after the Game 7 loss, to talk about his summer plans and future. It was possibly the saddest (sports) interview I’ve ever heard. He knew he wasn’t coming back (although he didn’t say so in so many words).
You perhaps knew me better as "Your Nation's Capital." Same great commentary, now with 100% more transparency!
Awww that is sad. Whatever outsiders may say, this team does have a close bond.
Alright, confess-how many goals are you going to make this year?
"I'm not going to tell!"
Well can you at least guarantee fifty?
"No way. I have a different objective. To win."
by capsyoungguns on Nov 18, 2010 2:33 PM EST up reply actions
Related, did anyone see Smitty (the Caps trainer, for those who may not know) talking to Mike Grier after the game? Very cute.
If anyone needs me, I'll be at Kettler.
Gads… would I love to have Mike Grier back on this team….
Washington Capitals 2009-10 = Quebec Nordiques 1994-95
--- D'ohboy
by MikeL-Pivonka on Nov 18, 2010 3:04 PM EST up reply actions
Instead of any of the other 4th liners?
by DrinkingPartner on Nov 18, 2010 3:11 PM EST up reply actions
Kashirsky recalled to the Bears.
You perhaps knew me better as "Your Nation's Capital." Same great commentary, now with 100% more transparency!
/\/\/\/\/\
One thing I’ve noticed this year…Mike Green looks a lot better. Not his game, but his appearance. Check it out.
First, a pic from CapsSnaps from Game 18 last year:
And a pic from the same source from last night’s game (also Game 18):
MG52 looks trimmer and distinctly less like he has a hangover, no?
Patron saint of quality footwear.
by fat_daddyo on Nov 18, 2010 2:29 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
It’s incredibly noticeable, even just over the summer – was watching the Ovi DVD w/ my roommate the other night and (spoiler alert!) there’s stuff from the awards show this summer. Looking at the pics of Mike w/ Ovi and Theo and then seeing the way he looks now…just a million times better. Thinner, more confident, no bags under the eyes, etc.
Of course at the awards show he actually DID have a hangover, sounded like Ovi got the boys wasted at his party the night before :P
If anyone needs me, I'll be at Kettler.
Easy enough to explain… he has Stayed Angry.
Seriously though, good for him! I hope he’s in a better place this time around, it can only help the team this April. Saw an interview of him right before the season started and he looked completely doughy-free to me.
Hell, see if he can take face-offs and compete for #2C!
Hopefully this April the Caps won't enter the month like lions and leave like lambs...
by war_capitals on Nov 18, 2010 2:38 PM EST up reply actions
He still has douche hair ….
" I don't have a certain type, only the heart can tell. If the heart responds, then it is my type."
by TheFuryUnleashed on Nov 18, 2010 3:34 PM EST up reply actions
Haha…I love this hair….
I like Laich, but I <3 Green
by RockinRed4Life on Nov 18, 2010 4:49 PM EST up reply actions
Good luck Cody!
Tonight he captains Team WHL in the final game of the 2010 Subway Super Series. Team Russia surprised the Dub last night by battling back from a 6-3 deficit to win 7-6 in a shootout.
Russia won both games against the Q, lost one regulation and one overtime game against the OHL, and won the SO yesterday in the first of the two games against the WHL. That’s the best Russia has done in basically ever in the Super Series. Head Coach Valery Bragin has done a real nice job, IMO. He’ll be coaching Kuznetsov, Orlov, and hopefully Stan Galiev at the WJCs.
But tonight, I’m a Team WHL fan. Go Squeaks!
You perhaps knew me better as "Your Nation's Capital." Same great commentary, now with 100% more transparency!
do you know how Stan did in his games?
Pledge Drive 2010-2011: SO KIDS CAN!! Help build a playground
He played in the first game only and had a very nice breakaway except that his shot went high. He’s wearing Orlov’s number…
(photo courtesy Marc Henwood and Station Nation)
You perhaps knew me better as "Your Nation's Capital." Same great commentary, now with 100% more transparency!
Radio interview with Cody, including Subway Series, bobbleheads, and the slightly-more-difficult-than-he-thought transition from Hershey/Capitals to major junior hockey.
You perhaps knew me better as "Your Nation's Capital." Same great commentary, now with 100% more transparency!
Each goal’s getting a little bit better. One of these times I am gonna use my stick.
Matt Bradley is so funny!
I like Laich, but I <3 Green
by RockinRed4Life on Nov 18, 2010 4:42 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
One day you can see the back of his head on NHL.com the next day he’s a TV star.
by Malin A on Nov 18, 2010 5:18 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
the midnight cable access production values rock. Does CSN broadcast this in HD?
Pledge Drive 2010-2011: SO KIDS CAN!! Help build a playground
via twitter
Commish Bettman, #Caps owner Leonsis taking your calls NOW: NHL.com & Sirius XM radio – 1-877-645-6696…. http://bit.ly/9yn7TU
You perhaps knew me better as "Your Nation's Capital." Same great commentary, now with 100% more transparency!
Do anyone know a player/players that didn’t produce a lot of points in juniors, AHL or any of the European leagues but starting producing points on a first or second line level when they came to NHL?
I’d ask the guys at Copper and Blue, I know Derek and Bruce have done a lot of work on Junior Equivalency tables, they probably have the data in sortable form.
"Essentially, all models are wrong, but some are useful" George E.P. Box
by Knee high to a duck on Nov 18, 2010 6:34 PM EST up reply actions
F. Brunnstrom? May not meet your criteria.
"I don't care about winning the division or winning the President's Trophy. I just care about getting to the playoffs." --GMGM
He doesn’t really fit because he produced to many points in Sweden. I want to see if someone that scored a maximum of 10 goals and 20 points in a season in the Swedish leagues have ever produced on a first/second line pace when they started playing in NHL.
Well if that’s what you’re looking for, Ovie’s highest point total in Moscow was 27. I’d say that’s a pretty big jump.
And I hear you talk the talk, but I don't see you walk the walk and I still don't believe a thing you say.
I agree that I’d rather know where the team is going, and you’ve seen me complain about that with the stats. It doesn’t tell you that at all. Luck changes, teams change, performance changes. But even in the example of luck being a big part of a team, how does that take away from the Avs?
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
The Colorado thing is a long-running feud between the folks at Mile High Hockey and Hawerchuk at BtN. Hawerchuk posted an 09-10 review of the Avs that said their season was total luck. I agree with many of his assertions, but he probably could have made them in a less-snarky fashion.
At any rate, it’s tough to say the team is a ‘.450’ team, because the sample size is too small. The whole thing ends in a chicken-or-egg cycle. Ultimately, I think Colorado played over their heads last year, and the result against SJS bore that out.
And I hear you talk the talk, but I don't see you walk the walk and I still don't believe a thing you say.
I read the review, I just don’t understand the practical purpose. How does that help looking forward? Did anyone say it was luck at the time? Was there any truth to the old adage that “you create your own luck.” Could it possibly be that maybe Hawerchuk’s model left something out? They call it luck, maybe it’s just an incomplete analysis or stochastic error.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
Did anyone say it was luck at the time?
Yeah, Hawerchuk called that one really, really early.
Was there any truth to the old adage that "you create your own luck."
I think there is something to that, but the more people figure out how to measure, the less it applies; there’s definitely more in the game than is currently modeled. But there’s also a bunch of luck. I wish I knew where the irreducible minimum was.
"Essentially, all models are wrong, but some are useful" George E.P. Box
by Knee high to a duck on Nov 18, 2010 6:55 PM EST up reply actions
Interesting that he called it really early. That is a huge win for the stat heads.
I don’t disagree that there is a lot of luck, I think there’s just less than is currently claimed by the stat crowd.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
That is a huge win for the stat heads.
To be fair, even non-stat heads could see it. The team was badly out-shot in almost every game and relied on Anderson and timely goal-scoring to pull out games they had no business winning.
And I hear you talk the talk, but I don't see you walk the walk and I still don't believe a thing you say.
I don’t know that it necessarily takes away from the Avs; however it happened, they got the standings points and the playoff berth.
If you mean in the general sense, if you have a team who’s production was 50% good luck and 50% skill/talent/hardwork/controllablefactors, versus a team with the same production who’s breakdown was 70% consistently controllable stuff and 30% luck, I’d have a tough time claiming the first team was better going forward than the second team.
"Essentially, all models are wrong, but some are useful" George E.P. Box
by Knee high to a duck on Nov 18, 2010 6:46 PM EST up reply actions
Empty nets in Philly tonite? Tampa Bay leading 8-7 late in the third. Bobs and Boucher have given up 4 goals each and Stamkos has a hat trick (2 PPG).
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
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