Monday Caps Clips: Caps Regain Movember Momentum
by J.P. on Nov 15, 2010 6:41 AM EST
in Caps Clips
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PrintYour savory breakfast links:
- Recaps and other assorted musings on last night's win from us, Vogs, NHL.com (Masisak), Carrera (blog, gamer), McNally (gamer, blog), Caps365 video (Boudreau, players), CSN Washington (Beninati), Frankovic, Peerless, RMNB, StC, OFB, Inside Hockey, KOL, clydeorama (pics), bridgetds (pics) and Caps Snaps (pics).
- Submitted for the Academy's consideration for Fight of the Year: John Erskine vs. Eric Boulton. [Puck Daddy]
- Semyon Varlamov after Sunday's start in Hershey: ""Physically, I feel pretty good. But I’m not ready 100 percent. I think I need to work more and more and more. I need to play more games." [Patriot-News (Leone), with more on the game, including Mathieu Perreault's amazing night, at SHoE]
- A look back at the week that was. [Peerless]
- How 'bout that Matt Hendricks? [THW]
- Movember mo' updates. [Blonde Girl's Guide]
- Congrats to
Real American HeroCaleb Herbert on Team USA's win at the World Junior A Challenge. [USA Hockey] - Finally, happy 27th birthday to Kyle Greentree.
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Don’t forget Caps In Pictures. They posted pictures for yesterday’s game as well. Link here:
http://capsinpictures.blogspot.com/
Rocking the Red for the Caps since 1975. Rocking the Red on additional fronts as well.
“Physically, I feel pretty good. But I’m not ready 100 percent. I think I need to work more and more and more. I need to play more games when I finish here in a week and go back to Washington.”
If you've read this far...seek help.
Saw that too. I’m glad that he realizes he’s rusty and needs more game time to get back in game shape before coming back up (or down Rt 15 as it were).
LET'S GO CAPS!!!
Yes. He realizes it. But he is not, to borrow from a former President, the decider.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
He may not be the final decider, but players can have a big influence on the decider(s). So it’s good to me to see that he’s not pushing to be back with the Caps before his body is ready
LET'S GO CAPS!!!
Perhaps this maturation/patience is being shared across the Room. Perhaps this team will be healthy and well-rested in April, May and (be still my fluttering heart) JUNE when they can do the most damage.
Stay Angry, my beloved Capitals! Just keep it on “simmer” for a while, get your playoff spot, and THEN unleash the fury.
"I am... *grins* ... 'Nobody' "
- Odysseus
by war_capitals on Nov 15, 2010 5:00 PM EST up reply actions
Thanks for crossing out the RAH stuff. As apart of a military family, I never really liked that nonsense
I also grew up in the military but consider Carlson’s RAH nickname affectionate. Moreover you missed the humorous point of the strikeout—no GWG for Caleb. The link is about Caleb not Carlson. Very much on topic IMO.
Alright, confess-how many goals are you going to make this year?
"I'm not going to tell!"
Well can you at least guarantee fifty?
"No way. I have a different objective. To win."
by capsyoungguns on Nov 15, 2010 8:39 AM EST up reply actions 4 recs
Yep. The cross-out was a play on RAHJC.
"Now wait a minute. This is just purely a social call. You know, just two adults getting a stew on, man."
by The Ghost of Bebop on Nov 15, 2010 9:27 AM EST up reply actions
Also submitted for your hockey consideration: while MC79Hockey’s post last night on Colin Campbell is decidedly not-Caps-related, it’s probably going to be the talk of the hockey blogosphere today.
I could probably crank out thirty thoughts on this, but I’ll restrict myself to five.
1) My take: on a scale of 0 to Tim Donaghy, this probably falls more towards zero. But with there being enough questions about the NHL’s officiating at present, Colin Campbell will pretty much need to set up a wall between himself and any of the NHL’s directors of officiating.
2) Colin Campbell, at best, comes off as an overzealous hockey dad. That’s bad enough as it is, but it reaches the level of terrible when the son is an NHL player and the father is a high-level NHL executive.
3) You know who probably wishes they’d done this legwork earlier? The NHL Officials Association. In his previous 30 thoughts column, Elliotte Friedman pointed out that the NHL is having a hard time hiring officials. One reason given for the shortage of officials is that so few want to do it after receiving loads of abuse from parents and coaches at the peewee and midget levels. Having evidence that a high-level NHL official slings such abuse towards his employees would have been a point they could have used in negotiating their new collective bargaining agreement (and, for all I know, they did).
4) The Bruins traded Dennis Wideman and a first for Nathan Horton and Gregory Campbell. One has to wonder if Peter Chiarelli was interested in Campbell in order to gain some leverage over the officiating in his games, or even just to cancel out Campbell’s loathing of Marc Savard.
5) At the end of the post, Dellow notes that “it would appear that if you’re a GM and you’re not constantly filling Campbell’s ear in an attempt to get the refs you like you like, you aren’t doing your job.” In light of the Burrows/Auger incident last year, one can definitely get the sense this is the case. Yet, while in some ways, this turns my stomach, I can also recognize how that’s part of the “sausage making” that goes into NHL games. Any team will take whatever reasonable steps they can in order to gain an advantage in a game.
6) Okay, I know I was going to only do five, but one would hope that, for a several-million-dollars-a-year business, the executives would use decent grammar and punctuation in their emails. Sigh.
by Wheeler on Nov 15, 2010 8:14 AM EST reply actions 5 recs
executives would use decent grammar and punctuation in their emails
This is far too much to ask of most people, regardless of their positions.
Also, I’d think your #4 is mute, considering that anything having anything to do with Campbell is handled by a different exec, right? It’s supposed to be fair, regardless of whether it is or not.
by DrinkingPartner on Nov 15, 2010 8:44 AM EST up reply actions
Technically it’s anything directly involving his son or his son’s team. I recall last year he ruled on Ovi’s suspension and it coincided with a game against Florida, where he son was playing at the time. Since it wasn’t directly related to his kid or kid’s team, he was able to rule on it. Seems like he should have recused himself from that decision too since it impacted a game vs. his son’s team.
Beyond that, what if he has to rule on a late season suspension for a Montreal player when they are in a race with Boston for a Division title? Doesn’t seem right to allow that to happen. So long as his kid is playing in the League, Campbell really should not be in the position of deciding on suspensions.
Just trying to capture the spirit of the thing...
by dcsportsfan1 on Nov 15, 2010 8:53 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
OK, so there are two pirate ships with 15 pirates on each. They capture a rich ship, and decide to spilt the proceeds based on each pirate’s contribution to the battle where the ship was taken. They’re all going to describe what they did to help win the battle to a neutral third party, and he’s going to apportion the money out accordingly.
If the “neutral third party” is the father of one of the pirates, is any pirate going to think his own share was fair?
My point is just that in a 30 team league, where 15 teams are in the same conference as the team with C. Campbell’s son, half if not all of C. Campbell’s decisions impact G. Campbell and his team. There’s no getting away from it, ever. the league is just too small.
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Nov 15, 2010 8:59 AM EST up reply actions 3 recs
____
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
by J.P. on Nov 15, 2010 9:01 AM EST up reply actions 6 recs
Sorry, Gould, I saw the pirate cartoon and read your whole post in pirate voice. I’ll try again.
by DrinkingPartner on Nov 15, 2010 9:07 AM EST up reply actions
I like that his parrot has a wheel on his belt too lol
Soon the Championship with be ours, all ours!
Additionally, there’s more moustache-coloring going on here… it totally doesn’t match his other hair. Just For Men has infiltrated this whole organization it seems…
"I am... *grins* ... 'Nobody' "
- Odysseus
by war_capitals on Nov 15, 2010 5:08 PM EST up reply actions
Campbell’s official title is “Senior VP and President of Hockey Operations,” so he’s definitely at the top of the food chain when it comes to officiating, but also too high for it to be his responsibility to watch every game and commenting on mistakes that he sees. The impression one gets from Campbell’s emails is that a) he watches his son’s games, notes any calls that he thinks are bad, and refers them to the Director of Officiating for review, and b) he definitely has some predispositions for and against certain players. For Campbell to be sending emails to Walkom regarding “blown calls” in his son’s games is pretty bad, because it sends a message to NHL officials that they have to walk on eggshells when it comes to officiating games in which his son is involved.[FN1] The fact that Dean Warren was fired for his performance will make it appear even worse.
The point of all of this is that even though Campbell will recuse himself in disciplinary matters regarding G. Campbell’s team, he’s still involved at some level.
[FN1] – It occurs to me that, in fact, Dean Warren’s lawyers may have cleverly selected these emails to enter into evidence on the grounds that they would make Campbell look like a fool in the press if anybody bothered to investigate. Campbell could send hundreds of these emails each day to Walkom in response to GM complaints, coach complaints, or the like. The thing that really smells in all of this is when Campbell notes that he was either watching the game or listening to it on the radio and then directs Walkom to investigate.
I’m positive that these emails are an unrepresentative sample of the entirety of emails that Campbell sends out. But as I mentioned in my response to the fanpost I think having any email conversations like this is extremely problematic for a guy in Campbell’s position.
Release the Mackan!
by Killer_Carlson on Nov 15, 2010 2:35 PM EST up reply actions
That is amazing stuff. For those who don’t know, CanLII is “a non-profit organization managed by the Federation of Law Societies of Canada. CanLII’s goal is to make Canadian law accessible for free on the Internet.” So basically, this was all available in the public record of Warren’s labor lawsuit.
My first thought was Dellow’s first moral of the story: “Never put anything into an email that you wouldn’t be fine with seeing in print on the front page of a national newspaper.”
My second was for professional journalists out there — how can they possibly keep up? Who could possibly check all of these obscure sources that are turning into stories these days, like the Canadian legal database? The internet can — that’s who.
Finally, this is why “apparent conflicts of interest” are bad. At this point, who knows whether Colin Campbell is actually doing a good job of being objective relative to his son or not? We have a large number of instances where C. Campbell’s decisions have helped G. Campbell. That is inevitable — we have lots of C. Campbell decisions to work with. It looks terrible, and there’s no good reason why the league should put itself in this position. It’s time for a director of officiating and discipline who does not have an obvious conflict of interest with a family member.
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Nov 15, 2010 8:44 AM EST up reply actions
My first thought was Dellow’s first moral of the story: "Never put anything into an email that you wouldn’t be fine with seeing in print on the front page of a national newspaper."
How many times have we seen this happen lately, in politics and other areas? Text messages, too.
I think Wheeler is a little low in giving it a rating closer to zero. There’s nothing to support blatant fixing, but the whole appearance thing is bad in a big way. Anyone who had any suspicion that they might not be getting a fair shake only has their thoughts reinforced here. Campbell needs to find a new job, stat.
"It's always good to have vikings."
There’s nothing to support blatant fixing, but the whole appearance thing is bad in a big way.
Actually, I took away the opposite. The language in the emails are bad, and it’s disturbing how much the league offices admit that referees affect outcomes, but nevertheless, it seems as though both Walkom and Campbell are trying to ensure fair outcomes to games. They’re talking about bad penalties getting called at the end of games and, as a fan, I couldn’t agree with them more.
Donaghy, on the other hand, could point to a pattern of active behavior directed at deliberately influencing the outcome of a given game in favor of a particular team.
And I hear you talk the talk, but I don't see you walk the walk and I still don't believe a thing you say.
What’s also curious is how much this shows NHL management to be active against calls made by the refs, yet when the public/press are screaming for it (ie, Colton Orr’s goalie interference) they don’t do anything.
"I would feed them lefts until I was pretty much tired of doing it." - Alan May, JRR, 10.16.2010
I’m sure someone got a talkin’ to, behind closed doors, about that call, especially with everyone talking in the press about how terrible it was. It would be straight up irresponsible for the NHL to ignore a blown call of that magnitude.
Two other things keep this from being nearly as bad as Tim Donaghy’s allegations:
1) It all happens after-the-fact, and doesn’t involve anything that Campbell said prior to a Florida game.
2) Florida hasn’t been in the playoffs since Campbell became Senior V.P. and President of Hockey Operations. So, honestly, how much could Campbell really have tilted things in their favor?[FN1]
I never suggested it rose to that level. If Donaghy level behavior is a 10, then I give Campbel somewhere between 2 and 3. Because it’s after the fact. But it has the appearance of being a warning that if you don’t do it the way he wants, you’ll pay for it, as this one referee claims.
Besides, even if you tried to “fix” the game via penalty calling, it’s still up to the team receiving the power play to actually, you know, score. Far more difficult than sinking a free throw.
"It's always good to have vikings."
Well if refs are assigned based on the opinions of Campbell and the wishes of GMs, then it’s not all entirely after the fact. Still not nearly as bad as Donaghy though.
Release the Mackan!
by Killer_Carlson on Nov 15, 2010 2:37 PM EST up reply actions
Yup. Today, the NHL looks incompetent, but not fundamentally corrupt like the NBA looked after Donaghy
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Nov 15, 2010 3:30 PM EST up reply actions
Maybe not fundamentally corrupt, but there is something untoward with Colin Campbell disparaging officials for calls against his son that he finds displeasing; something that goes beyond incompetent, imo.
Put it another way. If you had told me this morning that the NHL is incompetently managed, I would not have blinked twice. That’s old news.
The fact that Colin Campbell wrote an email calling Savard a faker, and lambaste an official for calling a penalty on his son that Savard drew, is new ground.
Patron saint of quality footwear.
Not just wrote an email, but wrote it to the Director of officiating.
"I would feed them lefts until I was pretty much tired of doing it." - Alan May, JRR, 10.16.2010
Agreed. And in the response as posted by TSN, Campbell’s pushing the notion that this is just two buds yaking:
Stephen and I would have banter back and forth and Stephen knows I’m a (hockey) dad venting and both of us knowing it wouldn’t go any further than that.
So the Director of Officiating and the NHL VP are BFF’s? That stinks of conflict almost as much as the whole father/son issue.
"I would feed them lefts until I was pretty much tired of doing it." - Alan May, JRR, 10.16.2010
full quotes spelled out for everyone.
campbell:
“For me, it’s much ado about nothing. Stephen and I would have banter back and forth and Stephen knows I’m a (hockey) dad venting and both of us knowing it wouldn’t go any further than that. Stephen would laugh at me. The game in question (when Gregory Campbell was penalized late in the Atlanta-Florida game) wasn’t on TV and I was asking Stephen to find out for me if it was a soft call. That’s all there ever was to it. The (refs) working that game are still in the league, aren’t they? Stephen handled the officials, just like Terry Gregson does now, and I’ve got a lot of emails to those guys asking about this soft call or that soft call and that’s in a lot of games. I’m not ultimately responsible for the (on-ice) officials, that’s Terry Gregson’s responsibility, but I have to answer to GMs on these calls.”
daly:
“Any suggestion that Colin Campbell performs his job with any less than 100% integrity at all times and in every decision he makes is way off base and just factually wrong. Because of the potential for a conflict of interest, or more importantly a perceived conflict of interest, the League has implemented various structural protections that prohibit Colie from having any oversight or disciplinary authority relating to any game in which his son, Gregory, plays. Its always fair to question and criticize League decisions as being wrong, but not on the basis that they aren’t justly and fairly arrived at.”
by Natty Bumppo on Nov 15, 2010 4:09 PM EST up reply actions
Bull. Fucking. Shit.
Not directed at you, Natty. Just not buying this spin. At all.
Patron saint of quality footwear.
lebrun has the daly quote up on ESPN.com now, too.
i’ve never been one to write emails to journalists, but does anyone know how to get hold of lebrun’s email? or mckenzie’s? these guys should hear from fans that we need the media as our allies, our voices right now. lebrun and others still have time to craft their own responses and do their own research, but they should be told that simply parroting back bill daly’s official statement isn’t the type of journalism that benefits the sport.
by Natty Bumppo on Nov 15, 2010 4:26 PM EST up reply actions 6 recs
Rec’d for truth!
I highly doubt any of us has the time to set this issue right, why not let the people who watch this sport for a living be active in this? NOT the last or only word obviously (can you imagine ESPN being in charge of ANYthing?), but let these Good Ole Boys know that we’re watching and we’re not going to let them railroad anyone.
The (refs) working that game are still in the league, aren’t they?
For now they are, but maybe the better question is “These guys aren’t on my personal WatchList, are they?” It would seem that’s the place you want to avoid being, since they need to start building a solid case against you before they legally railroad you outta the NHL…
"I am... *grins* ... 'Nobody' "
- Odysseus
by war_capitals on Nov 15, 2010 5:20 PM EST up reply actions
If he is calling out all the fakers I’m fine. I wish they’d do more to those guys.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
Well, that would be one thing. I see precious little evidence that the league is drawing or has drawn a bead on divers, though. Am I wrong here?
Patron saint of quality footwear.
I agree that trying to fix bad calls is a good thing, but I didn’t take that away. Maybe it’s because of the selective samples chosen for the litigation, but these are calls that involve Campbell’s son, a call that he didn’t even see, he just heard on the radio, and calls that are being highlighted to make a case to fire a specific ref. None of this sounds like “fixing bad calls to make the game better” and if Campbell was really interested in making the game better there is a whole lot of other stuff he could do to further that end rather than pursue a vendetta against a ref he doesn’t like.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
Besides all the lawyers here, many of us work on Government Contracts and have had to sign Conflicts of Interest forms. We’re questioned about not just obvious, but perceived conflicts. Either carry weight in determining whether you can be involved. Colin Campbell would fail in this.
"I would feed them lefts until I was pretty much tired of doing it." - Alan May, JRR, 10.16.2010
by bagace on Nov 15, 2010 9:33 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Gotta say, I’m less concerned about the possibility of a conflict of interest and more concerned about how incompetent Campbell comes off. Now, I recognize that the idea that Colin Campbell is incompetent isn’t exactly a revelation, but when I see something like this…
From: Stephen Walkom
[player] knew it was a penalty…..that call is easy to defend….this has been a good upbeat game…
From: Colin Campbell
I hate soft penalties…remember that when I am a GM!
… it just makes me angry. It seems like Campbell has his own idea of what the rules should be, rather than what’s actually in the rulebook. Which is completely unacceptable when you are the HEAD OF FREAKING OFFICIATING.
Not to mention
90 seconds left and he calls a weak penalty…tripping. Makes me sick.
Know what makes me (and most other hockey fans) sick? Referees pocketing their whistles in the closing minutes of a game.
Yeah, although I have no issue with refs not calling the marginal stuff late in a game. I think it’s better that way—only call the blatant stuff.
by red army line on Nov 15, 2010 10:30 AM EST up reply actions
I’ve gotta disagree (unless they’ve been not calling the marginal stuff all game). The single most important thing officials can do is be consistent – whether they’re calling it by the books or letting stuff go. Players need to know how a game is going to be called.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
by J.P. on Nov 15, 2010 10:32 AM EST up reply actions 3 recs
I agree, in any sport, inconsistent officiating is way more frustrating than outright bad officiating.
Seconded. I played baseball for a long time (was a pitcher). And back then I cared less whether the ump had a generous or tight strike zone (though generous was always nice); than I cared knowing that the pitch on the corner that was called a strike in the first inning was still going to be a strike in the 9th inning.
I’d imagine most athletes feel the same way about their officiating.
by BradleyFightingVehicle on Nov 15, 2010 10:40 AM EST up reply actions
I think a great point of comparison is the first game of the Redskins’ season in which they won the game as a result of a penalty against Dallas. All the headlines read that the holding call cost the Cowboys the game, but in reality, if the offending player hadn’t committed the hold, the play would have resulted in a sack and a Redskins win. Had the referees put their whistles at the end of the game like in the NHL, it would have been the refs costing Washington a win. I know that referees don’t want to appear to be directly responsible for the result of the game, but a poor non-call can have just as much of an effect as actually calling something. That’s the thing that pisses me off the most about the disappearing late game whistles.
Down Goes Brown is killing it here.
@SpectorsHockey: Tyler Dellow’s blog down after post damning league disciplinarian Colin Campbell as corrupt. Coincidence? Or something more nefarious?
@DownGoesBrown @SpectorsHockey But is the server really down, or just faking?
by Wheeler on Nov 15, 2010 11:38 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
eagerly anticipating DGB’s “The Mising Colin Campbell Emails” post….
by Ginga on Nov 15, 2010 11:43 AM EST up reply actions 6 recs
the closest thing to MSM i’ve seen with the story is NESN:
http://www.nesn.com/2010/11/report-colin-campbell-suggested-marc-savard-was-fake-artist-in-2007-e-mail-with-head-of-officiating.html
by Natty Bumppo on Nov 15, 2010 12:26 PM EST up reply actions
They just talked about it on The Fan 590 (Toronto). Greg Brady (the host) brought it up and seemed really interested in the story, even gave credit to Dellow. His guests, Nick Kypreos & Doug MacLean, backed Campbell, saying he’s a good guy and that the fact that the case against Warren was found in favor of the NHL proves there’s no issue. Brady brought up the Savard issue, but the guests said the emails don’t prove anything and instead chose to chuckle over the colorful language of the emails. One of them (either Kypreos or MacLean, not sure) ended the segment saying they gave “some blogger” his fifteen minutes and that was enough.
"I would feed them lefts until I was pretty much tired of doing it." - Alan May, JRR, 10.16.2010
by bagace on Nov 15, 2010 12:53 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Big surprise that a former GM would decline to badmouth the sitting head of operations.
You had me at no problem.
Current GMs don’t either (take that for whatever it’s worth).
"DON'T SAY THAT! Please! That is the worst, most stupid thing anyone could say! Cause it quite clearly isn't "only a game." I mean if it was do you honestly think I'd care this much?"
by Bald Pollack on Nov 15, 2010 1:33 PM EST up reply actions
looks like the whole mc79hockey site was taken down
If you've read this far...seek help.
by ThePeerless on Nov 15, 2010 11:40 AM EST up reply actions
Traffic probably killed their bandwidth. Or something.
The guy is Peter Schumpmaker. Lord knows what a schump is, but you can bet your bippy his ancestors made them. What he's doing is far worse than crafting fine schumps.
by Steckel Me Elmo on Nov 15, 2010 11:42 AM EST up reply actions
I still have the post open in another tab. Let me know if you want me to copy it and post.
by vtcapsfan99 on Nov 15, 2010 11:54 AM EST up reply actions
The fact that Colie – whom we all know is a dumbass, but still – sicced Walkom on refs who made calls against his son…that’s really bad.
You think word doesn’t get out among the refs? “Ya wanna keep this job? Don’t blow the whistle on Campbell at the end of a game…his old man will get Walkom to downgrade your performance…”
What a travesty.
Patron saint of quality footwear.
I usually don’t get too jazzed about fights, but Erskine’s slugfest last night may have been one of the more entertaining two minutes I’ve experienced in the last few years. Any reservations I had about #4’s place on this team have been erased with his play this season. The guy’s earned every dollar of his contract.
by b.orr4 on Nov 15, 2010 8:47 AM EST reply actions 2 recs
I was about to post about this. Hell of a fight. No wrestling and hugging, just two guys going toe to toe and throwing absolute bombs. My favorite comment from hockeyfights.com: “If they had taken many more of those they’d be getting coloring books for Christmas.”
"Now wait a minute. This is just purely a social call. You know, just two adults getting a stew on, man."
by The Ghost of Bebop on Nov 15, 2010 9:32 AM EST up reply actions
I also agree re: Erskine’s play this season. He seems to have settled in and is playing extremely well within his role. He’s really bringing some steadiness to the bottom pair. I would still like to see us pick up another D just to provide a cushion against injury, though.
"Now wait a minute. This is just purely a social call. You know, just two adults getting a stew on, man."
by The Ghost of Bebop on Nov 15, 2010 9:33 AM EST up reply actions
He seems to have settled in and is playing extremely well within his role. He’s really bringing some steadiness to the bottom pair.
Let’s not forget that we’ve seen this act from Erskine before. He’s gone through stretches of good play for weeks, only to be derailed by injury or by a regression to general suckitude. I’m stoked that he’s been playing well, but let’s not get ahead of ourselves in thinking that a 30-year old defenseman has suddenly “found it,” and that he’s transformed himself into an everyday player.
Erskine is what he is, a 6/7 defenseman. Right now, he’s a 6/7 defenseman who’s playing great, but he’s still a 6/7 defenseman.
And I hear you talk the talk, but I don't see you walk the walk and I still don't believe a thing you say.
No, I agree. I didn’t mean to imply that he’s suddenly turned a corner. He’s been much more consistent so far, though. Ideally, we’d pick up a legitimate top-4 (or even top-6) defenseman and have Erskine as a capable 7th D. I just want Sloan out of the lineup as much as possible.
"Now wait a minute. This is just purely a social call. You know, just two adults getting a stew on, man."
by The Ghost of Bebop on Nov 15, 2010 10:45 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Yeesh, such pessimism :)
"Do you see my fist? It was fists like these that built quaint Canadian cities out of the harsh Canadian wilderness, etc. etc."
Not in Seattle anymore.
by SeattleCapsFan on Nov 15, 2010 11:34 AM EST up reply actions
He’s gone through stretches of good play for weeks
Ha. You usually qualify your standard “Erskine regression” responses with comments about him being good for a couple games before sucking it up again. Having to stretch it out to “good play for weeks” to cover yourself now, huh?
Two playoffs ago, Erskine looked like a competent NHL defenseman, then he came out during last year’s preseason playing for a roster spot and looked great. So great, in fact, that the coaches started the season with Schultz as a healthy scratch. At the time, I briefly thought, “maybe Erskine has finally figured it out,” before he eventually fell back to earth.
Erskine can play like this for a week or two here and there, but he’ll eventually get hurt or just start playing like crap.
And I hear you talk the talk, but I don't see you walk the walk and I still don't believe a thing you say.
I believe some of his best stretches of hockey were when he was getting some rest every few games as well via healthy scratches. It seems like he gases or just needs more recovery time to be able to play solid.
Think twice before you speak, and then you may be able to say something more insulting than if you spoke right out at once.
Keep in mind that Erskine missed 22 games with a concussion in 2008-2009.
If you've read this far...seek help.
That was definitely my concern in watching those knuckles being chucked – and landing – back and forth.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
to be honest it kept me from enjoying the fight at all. “oh crap his helmet fell off.”
by Natty Bumppo on Nov 15, 2010 11:47 AM EST up reply actions
Not sure what precipitated that brawl other than Boulton trying to light a fire under his team. Seemed to work, BTW, given that they got a shorty during his roughing call.
Just trying to capture the spirit of the thing...
by dcsportsfan1 on Nov 15, 2010 10:04 AM EST up reply actions
Boulton should get his face pounded in again too. Spitting is always uncalled for. Fight? Fine. You can do that and still have respect for your opponent, but spitting? The only thing you can do more insulting than that would be more difficult in full hockey gear.
I haven’t seen any credible source say Boulton spit on or at him. Where did you see that?
Just trying to capture the spirit of the thing...
by dcsportsfan1 on Nov 15, 2010 10:38 AM EST up reply actions
It sure looked like it on the VC replay. Right before Erskine slammed him to the boards, it looked a lot like Boulton spit at him. He made the spitting motion and Erksine recoiled as though he’d be spit on.
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
by twistedlogic on Nov 15, 2010 10:44 AM EST up reply actions
It sure looks like Boulton spit at Erskine. Spitting falls under what used to be called a “Gross Misconduct” and now is just a Game Misconduct… he would have been tossed from the game. It is covered in Rule 23.7:
23.7 Other Infractions That Could Result in a Game Misconduct – Refer to the Reference Tables – Table 12 – Summary of Game Misconduct Penalties for a list of the infractions that can result in a game misconduct penalty being assessed (see specific rule numbers for complete descriptions).
In addition, the following list of infractions can also result in a game misconduct penalty being assessed:
(i) interfering with or striking a spectator.
(ii) post-game verbal abuse from players, goalkeepers or non-playing club personnel (on or off the ice)
(iii) racial taunts or slurs
(iv) spitting on or at an opponent or spectator
Astonishingly, it says it “can result” in a game misconduct being assessed, not “will result”…. meaning there is discretion from the officials. They can decide whether or not to assess the penalty.
Washington Capitals 2009-10 = Quebec Nordiques 1994-95
--- D'ohboy
by MikeL-Pivonka on Nov 15, 2010 11:07 AM EST up reply actions
You can see it, right before Erskine slams him into the boards. I presume it is the reason that Erskine gets extra violent all of a sudden (and also the reason the officials step in right away).
I’m sure we would have heard if that was the case. Looked to me like Erskine was talking to him and Boulton gave him a bit of a head fake. That is what Erskine was reacting two. The linesmen were right there and I’m pretty sure they would have reported it if it happened. I also think Erskine might have gone a bit more ape shit had he actually been spat upon.
Just trying to capture the spirit of the thing...
by dcsportsfan1 on Nov 15, 2010 11:00 AM EST up reply actions
reacting to…
Just trying to capture the spirit of the thing...
by dcsportsfan1 on Nov 15, 2010 11:01 AM EST up reply actions
That’s what I saw. Boulton tried to fake a shot and get Erskine to flinch and Erskine just laughed at him and slammed him into the glass.
Think about when spitting happens, it becomes news. Nobody keeps that a secret, and given all the good angle replays I find it hard to believe that you wouldn’t see any spit flying (or that the linesmen would miss it).
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
blurry internet video. i can buy the flinching/head fake thing due to the lack of post-game apeshittedness. you gotta admit it looks like spitting though
I know what you mean with the head bob, but I watched it several times on the jumbotron at the VC and I didn’t see anything that looked like spitting. Erskine’s non-reaction is pretty telling too. He didn’t go all Channing Crowder on Boulton when the linesmen were breaking it up.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
So if it feels like the Caps are always killing penalties and never on the power play, there are good reasons to feel that way:
Team penalty plus minus, using NHL.com stats, top 5 (TS is times shorthanded)
Team PP Opp TS Pen +/-
CAR: 83 PPs, 65 TS, +18
ATL: 78 PPs, 64 TS, +14
TOR: 68 PPs, 55 TS, +13
CGY: 77 PPs, 66 TS, +11
NYI: 82 PPs, 71 TS, +11
Bottom 5
MTL: 62 PPs, 72 TS, -10
PHI: 73 PPs, 83 TS, -10
WSH: 64 PPs, 77 TS, -13
PHX: 55 PPs, 69 TS, -14
ANA" 61 PPs, 85 TS, -24
Here’s a player by player breakdown, using behindthenet stats
Green +4
Steckel +2
Laich +2
Johansson +2
Ovechkin +1
Hendricks +1
Chimera 0
Fleischmann 0
Backstrom 0
Bradley 0
Sloan 0
King 0
Perreault 0
Fahey 0
Knuble -1
Alzner -1
Schultz -1
Beagle -1
Poti -1
Gordon -2
Semin -3
Erskine -3
Fehr -3
Carlson -4
Everyone not in the top 4 of this list needs to do better. The skill guys need to draw more calls (Backstrom, I’m looking at you). Eric Fehr needs to be more under control if he wants more playing time.
And this is more proof that Carlson is getting some on-the-job training. I know he’s already better than we have any reasonable reason to expect from him, and this is how good defensemen are forged and tempered, but I sure can’t wait to see what he’ll be like when he is more seasoned.
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Nov 15, 2010 9:11 AM EST reply actions 7 recs
Fehr was relatively strong in this metric last year. Not so much this year. Hint: go to the net, make them foul you. You too, Knuble. Hell, all y’all.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
I was half worried after posting this that I’d see “we’re working on something about this, so please save the comments for that thread…”
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Nov 15, 2010 4:27 PM EST up reply actions
We’re always working on something about everything…
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
Interesting that those top five teams have a combined record of 31-44-9 and none of them are above .500, while the bottom five are a combined 52-25-11 and all of them are above .500.
No idea what the significance of that is… correlation and causation and all that. Just interesting.
by Kevin O. on Nov 15, 2010 10:11 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
JLikens wrote a little while back about how teams with the lead take more penalties than trailing teams. That’s probably part of it. Carolina since the lockout year-after-year has been one of the best penalty-drawing teams in the league as well.
by red army line on Nov 15, 2010 10:31 AM EST up reply actions
JLikens wrote a little while back about how teams with the lead take more penalties than trailing teams.
To what is this attributed? Trailing teams increasing their level of effort? Officials subconsciously trying to even up the game?
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
teams keep forgetting to turn off computer assistance before playing.
by Natty Bumppo on Nov 15, 2010 11:57 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
In Puck Daddy,
Ryan Lambert in his What We Learned column asks “Who’s going to overpay for Semin?”: http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/blog/puck_daddy/post/What-We-Learned-Who-s-gonna-overpay-for-Semin-?urn=nhl-285505#remaining-content
I poured spot remover on my dog. Now he's gone.
If there is one thing I have learned during my short time on this Earth, it’s that you never trust a Russian in a contract year.
Well, there was this somewhat memorable contract year…
65-47-112, +28, 22 PPG, 15 PPA
And he hasn’t been too bad since.
If you've read this far...seek help.
I’ve learned two things: 1) Never get involved in a land war in Asia, and 2) Never go in against a Sicilian when death is on the line.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
by J.P. on Nov 15, 2010 10:51 AM EST up reply actions 10 recs
Inconceivable!
Washington Capitals 2009-10 = Quebec Nordiques 1994-95
--- D'ohboy
by MikeL-Pivonka on Nov 15, 2010 11:08 AM EST up reply actions
Those words – I do not think they mean what you think they mean.
by DrinkingPartner on Nov 15, 2010 12:03 PM EST up reply actions
You are on fire today!
"Do you see my fist? It was fists like these that built quaint Canadian cities out of the harsh Canadian wilderness, etc. etc."
Not in Seattle anymore.
by SeattleCapsFan on Nov 15, 2010 11:44 AM EST up reply actions
They know for sure what they’re getting: one of the best complimentary players in the world.
Hmm. Complimentary, or complementary?
If wishes were horses, we'd all be eating steak.
by Hang a Laingtern on Your Problems on Nov 15, 2010 10:41 AM EST up reply actions
Semin told me what a nice jersey I was wearing.
You had me at no problem.
by Ninjak on Nov 15, 2010 11:04 AM EST up reply actions 4 recs
His contract will include a bonus for speaking English on the bench and keeping up the mime act with the press.
"Inglewood Jack! Inglewood Jack!" - Coach Jules
by Alz Well That Ends Well on Nov 15, 2010 11:42 AM EST up reply actions
I can think of plenty of pro sports athletes that would greatly benefit from playing the Literacy Card, if it were a feasible option for them… cough, cough RandyMoss cough cough
Perhaps Semin isn’t very media-friendly from his own personal outlook on life and this is a way of preventing the headaches that come from bone-headed comments to the press? Manage your weaknesses when possible, right?
"I am... *grins* ... 'Nobody' "
- Odysseus
by war_capitals on Nov 15, 2010 5:37 PM EST up reply actions
the latter (the trick is, think “complete”)
If you've read this far...seek help.
by ThePeerless on Nov 15, 2010 11:50 AM EST up reply actions
The Maven picks the Top 5 Goalies
Bobo the Goalie is there, so is “Hank” (quel surprise!), but no Neuvy.
If you've read this far...seek help.
I can’t take anyone who calls himself “The Maven” seriously.
"Now wait a minute. This is just purely a social call. You know, just two adults getting a stew on, man."
by The Ghost of Bebop on Nov 15, 2010 10:19 AM EST up reply actions
Generally I agree, although this time the list wasn’t that bad.
The guy is Peter Schumpmaker. Lord knows what a schump is, but you can bet your bippy his ancestors made them. What he's doing is far worse than crafting fine schumps.
by Steckel Me Elmo on Nov 15, 2010 10:23 AM EST up reply actions
Might be just as well that Neuvy doesn’t make the list of a guy who thinks Wild’s Backstrom is Swedish.
by mechanicsville on Nov 15, 2010 11:35 AM EST up reply actions
Didn’t watch, the guy’s an ass, but having Bobrovsky in that top 5 list is hilariously stupid.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
Agreed. The guy has made how many starts? Yeah. He deserves that one.
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
by twistedlogic on Nov 15, 2010 4:24 PM EST up reply actions
I don’t think Gordon got a fair shake. That team has been decimated by injuries.
"Now wait a minute. This is just purely a social call. You know, just two adults getting a stew on, man."
by The Ghost of Bebop on Nov 15, 2010 10:46 AM EST up reply actions
He’s being a good sport staying on as an advisor, I’d say.
"I don't care about winning the division or winning the President's Trophy. I just care about getting to the playoffs." --GMGM
by bigonetimer on Nov 15, 2010 10:51 AM EST up reply actions
I think they would happily trade being decimated* for what has actually happened to them — they’ve lost a lot more than one in ten.
- Minus the part where you club your compatriots to death.
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Nov 15, 2010 4:30 PM EST up reply actions
This poor guy… out as Islanders coach. I’ve always had a sympathetic side for him since this happened to him in Feb. 1990 when he was the Nordiques, goaltender:
http://www.hockey-reference.com/boxscores/199002060WSH.html
Washington Capitals 2009-10 = Quebec Nordiques 1994-95
--- D'ohboy
by MikeL-Pivonka on Nov 15, 2010 11:12 AM EST up reply actions
Amazing that when you look at the score sheet, the only Caps not getting a point are John Druce and Rod Langway…. ironic in that Langway scored the OT winner in Game 4 of the division finals to put the Caps up 3-1, and Druce decided he was Wayne Gretzky over the course of April, 1990….
Washington Capitals 2009-10 = Quebec Nordiques 1994-95
--- D'ohboy
by MikeL-Pivonka on Nov 15, 2010 11:21 AM EST up reply actions
You’d be hard pressed to find a coach who got more out of less than did Gordon. That was a hard team to play against.
If you've read this far...seek help.
by ThePeerless on Nov 15, 2010 11:51 AM EST up reply actions
I really hope he gets another NHL coaching gig down the line. I thought he did a good job given the rosters he had to work with.
The Artist Formerly Known as CP2Devil.
Links guy at Five For Howling.
by Carl Putnam on Nov 15, 2010 11:55 AM EST up reply actions
If nothing else, he apparently knows how to stop Ovechkin. It sure like he got Ovechkin bottled up pretty tight many nights. All the best to him.
by red army line on Nov 15, 2010 11:58 AM EST up reply actions
He will. He’s a great coach. Not a smart move by the Islanders.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
Not a smart move by the Islanders.
מה נשתנה, הלילה הזה מכל הלילות
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Nov 15, 2010 5:20 PM EST up reply actions 6 recs
Very nice.
For the non-tribe members: “Why is this night different from all other nights?” A question posed typically by the youngest participant in a traditional Passover seder.
That would be a way to say, “So what else is new?”
Life With Spidey -- a blog about sports, travel, work, family and fun.
Representing Caps fandom in the Gateway to the West.
Some prospect updates
Along with Eakin’s bobblehead GWG and Herbert/Team USA winning the World Junior A Challenge (Herbert finished the tourney with 2g/1a and 6 PIMs in 4 games), a few other prospect updates (not comprehensive, just a few notes):
- DeSimone had 1g/3a in 2 games this weekend for UNH (a win and a tie against UMass); DeSimone is tied with linemate Paul Thompson with 3g/7a/10 points to lead UNH after 9 games played this season
- DeSimone’s teammate and fellow Caps prospect, Greg Burke, has only played in 4 games and is out of the line-up again; not long after returning from a leg injury; this time due to mononucleosis source
- Dunn didn’t get a start for SCSU this weekend, I believe for the first time this year, as Lee started in back to backs
- Flemming’s +20 for Mississauga leads the team and is a tie for first in the OHL (he was +5 and had 2a in a win the other night)
- OT: former Caps prospect/draft pick, Benjamin Casavant named one of the three stars of the week in the Q
by sk84fun_dc on Nov 15, 2010 10:36 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
And Quintin Laing did well this weekend – 1-3-4, +3, 2PIM in three road games.
You perhaps knew me better as "Your Nation's Capital." Same great commentary, now with 100% more transparency!
by EmilyB on Nov 15, 2010 2:05 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Via Wysh: “DC READERS! Ovechkin contest up on PD Facebook page. Act quickly! ”http://www.facebook.com/PuckDaddyYahoo" target="_blank">http://www.facebook.com/PuckDaddyYahoo"
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
New content – your weekly Ups and Downs
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
Steinberg has a piece up on the mangling of the anthem at MSG last week: http://voices.washingtonpost.com/dcsportsbog/2010/11/steven_page_mangles_national_a.html
You had me at no problem.
He oughtta do time for that crime.
If you've read this far...seek help.
by ThePeerless on Nov 15, 2010 11:51 AM EST up reply actions
No foolin’!
Hey, btw, a little late on this, but can anyone tell me why they sang the Canadian anthem before the Buffalo game?
You had me at no problem.
It rubbed me the wrong way. Don’t get me wrong, I love “O Canada”. But in America, at a game between two American teams? It’s just odd. It serves as a reminder that the singing of the anthem is nothing official, but really just part of the crowd-pleasing entertainment.
Speaking of which, I was pissed that they didn’t sing national anthems before games at the Olympics.
You had me at no problem.
Probably because on any given night at least half of the crowd in buffalo is from Canada.
Aim for the head baby Jesus
Right…but do they sing it in Detroit before every game? What about the American anthem in Vancouver or Toronto?
Its not the same, Detroit has so many fans that not alot of people come across the border, and god knows there aren’t enough ticket for sale for many Americans to get tickets in Vancouver or Toronto.
Aim for the head baby Jesus
I guess it’s just more of an issue for me. Last I checked Buffalo was still an American city….close to the border for sure, but still on the right side. The fact that they have Canadian fans that come to games does not wash with me…otherwise every game should feature both anthems because the majority of players are from Canada.
It’s a business thing, I don’t know if the Sabres could continue to exist without Canadian fans.
Aim for the head baby Jesus
Exactly. They know who butters their bacon.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
Very OT but when my husband was asked (back in his dorm room days) how much butter was needed to fry bacon, he answered: “A whole stick.”
Alright, confess-how many goals are you going to make this year?
"I'm not going to tell!"
Well can you at least guarantee fifty?
"No way. I have a different objective. To win."
by capsyoungguns on Nov 15, 2010 6:59 PM EST up reply actions
It would help if the Bills stopped polluting Toronto with their bad football and obvious CFL uniform rip-offs…
But yeah, I can see the anthem needing to really mean something, not just another Crowd Noise Meter gimick.
"I am... *grins* ... 'Nobody' "
- Odysseus
by war_capitals on Nov 15, 2010 5:44 PM EST up reply actions
Toronto is way too far from the US border to have a large gathering of Americans in the seats as Leafs fans.
"It's always good to have vikings."
Anyone try voting for the All-Star ballot. This site is making me bang my head against my desk. I already have a NHL account, but it still wants me to register. Tells me something is wrong but not what is wrong.
Just seems super broken and unnecessary for a site that should just let you vote and drop a cookie off on your computer saying you’ve already voted………
Bruce Boudreau when asked about Brooks Laich's return to the lineup, he said: "He just adds another dimension to our team. If it was puzzle, he just fits that thing. He completes us."
Brooks Laich completing everything from teams to tires and everything in between.
Not a fan of the NHL web site. I don’t consider this surprising at all.
If you've read this far...seek help.
by ThePeerless on Nov 15, 2010 11:54 AM EST up reply actions
I had the same issue – had to create a new user name because the one I had was already taken (by me!). Also, the write-in function didn’t seem to work.
He's a better skater than Nick, but he's big in the back[side]...BB
by Backeez Got Back on Nov 15, 2010 12:16 PM EST up reply actions
Apparently, the greater powers that be sensed my rage post and allowed me to vote. Pro-tip: use your email, not your nhl-screen name.
Voted 3 times, several players multiple times for: Ovi, Backs, Sasha, Stamkos, Green, Doughty, J. Quick, Voukoun, and Neuvi.
Bruce Boudreau when asked about Brooks Laich's return to the lineup, he said: "He just adds another dimension to our team. If it was puzzle, he just fits that thing. He completes us."
Brooks Laich completing everything from teams to tires and everything in between.
Ex-Cap Nolan Yonkman has been called up by the Coyotes.
The Artist Formerly Known as CP2Devil.
Links guy at Five For Howling.
…on purpose?
If anyone needs me, I'll be at Kettler.
by Becca H on Nov 15, 2010 12:56 PM EST up reply actions 5 recs
LOL! I assume the press release that arrived in my inbox, the link on the website, and the tweet by the PR staff weren’t all accidental.
The Artist Formerly Known as CP2Devil.
Links guy at Five For Howling.
Somewhere in Chicago, a chill runs up Michael Nylander’s spine.
"Now wait a minute. This is just purely a social call. You know, just two adults getting a stew on, man."
by The Ghost of Bebop on Nov 15, 2010 1:04 PM EST up reply actions
Damn pocket-dialing…
John Carlson - Glory follows him.
Six Beers Too Many Fantasy Team - BizNasty's Hobo Rodeo
by boutros23 on Nov 15, 2010 1:03 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Don’t laugh yet. There’s a scenario that has Nycholat playing for the Caps at some point this season.
Life With Spidey -- a blog about sports, travel, work, family and fun.
Representing Caps fandom in the Gateway to the West.
Do. Not. Want.
Washington Capitals 2009-10 = Quebec Nordiques 1994-95
--- D'ohboy
by MikeL-Pivonka on Nov 15, 2010 1:10 PM EST up reply actions
Wouldn’t he be our 9th D right now?
Life With Spidey -- a blog about sports, travel, work, family and fun.
Representing Caps fandom in the Gateway to the West.
I’d certainly put him 9th. Not sure where GMGM and BB would put him. Collins would be in the mix as well.
The Artist Formerly Known as CP2Devil.
Links guy at Five For Howling.
Given that he’d have to be signed to an NHL contract, I’d guess he’s pretty far down the chart. OTOH, Hershey’s not exactly deep in D talent.
"It's always good to have vikings."
I think the presumption is that he’d be brought up with someone on LTIR, which eliminates cap issues.
Life With Spidey -- a blog about sports, travel, work, family and fun.
Representing Caps fandom in the Gateway to the West.
But he can’t play for the big club without being signed to an NHL contract, which he’s currently not.
Patron saint of quality footwear.
Are we at the max on contracts?
Life With Spidey -- a blog about sports, travel, work, family and fun.
Representing Caps fandom in the Gateway to the West.
Don’t believe so. IIRC the Caps have something like 46 NHL contracts (out of a max of 50)?
Patron saint of quality footwear.
So he still could be our 9th D, but he’d have to sign a contact and get paid. I’m sure both are doable.
God forbid – but doable.
Life With Spidey -- a blog about sports, travel, work, family and fun.
Representing Caps fandom in the Gateway to the West.
Erskine’s fight is now rated a 9.4 at hockeyfights.com he’s 4% ahead of a draw …
" I don't have a certain type, only the heart can tell. If the heart responds, then it is my type."
by TheFuryUnleashed on Nov 15, 2010 1:09 PM EST reply actions
Did Boulton get a shift after the fight? I remember Joe B. saying he was in the locker room in the third period. Boulton is the type who can usually take some licks, but the the shots of him right after the fight and in the box, he looked kind of punch-drunk and dazed. Or just exhausted.
I heard somewhere that he was injured.
And I hear you talk the talk, but I don't see you walk the walk and I still don't believe a thing you say.
Whereas Erskine seemed relatively comfy in the box despite taking some big bombs to the face. No paper-skin Bradley, there.
John Carlson - Glory follows him.
Six Beers Too Many Fantasy Team - BizNasty's Hobo Rodeo
It seemed to me that Erskine was trying to keep his head out of range and absorb less blows to the head.
shock absorbing moustache?
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Nov 15, 2010 5:32 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, I was wondering if that injury were a concussion. He looked pretty blank-eyed at the end of that bout.
You had me at no problem.
Yes. Dazed and confused whereas Ersk looked supremely satisfied.
Alright, confess-how many goals are you going to make this year?
"I'm not going to tell!"
Well can you at least guarantee fifty?
"No way. I have a different objective. To win."
by capsyoungguns on Nov 15, 2010 7:01 PM EST up reply actions
Mr. E took him off the ice …… KO … we win…
" I don't have a certain type, only the heart can tell. If the heart responds, then it is my type."
by TheFuryUnleashed on Nov 15, 2010 1:57 PM EST up reply actions
I thought Erskine won that handily. More bombs landed, better bombs landed. Boulton got some shots in but not the same quality as Erskine’s. Plus, Erskine didn’t get his bell rung.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
I agree, win for Erskine. But he is sooo lucky to come out of that unscathed. I was pissed that Boulton got a roughing and not an instigator. This was the same shit that has happened to Erskine for the last couple years. Belak and Rechlicz (two years ago), Thornton (last year), now Boulton. Big John gets jumped by heavies who know he can fight and basically force him to. Kudos to John for going all out whenever he does fight, but I constantly have visions of the Godard punch from spring ’08 that put him out for weeks.
Quotes like these make me satisfied that bad habits are at least getting recognized and that the coaching staff and players are trying to change these habits.
“We talked between the second and third [periods] about how we don’t want to win games 6-4 and we don’t want this reputation,” Capitals coach Bruce Boudreau said. “We want to be able to shut teams down. Right now we’re doing it for two periods and we’re having little brain [cramps] and it is costing us.” (from Corey’s NHL piece)
I wasn’t pleased with the Caps’ sudden upsurge of GA. I want this season’s version to be the new and improved Caps that keeps the GA down, that come playoffs have a plan B should a goal scoring drought occurs, and that has built up a reputation for being good or at least reliably consistent defensively too.
Alright, confess-how many goals are you going to make this year?
"I'm not going to tell!"
Well can you at least guarantee fifty?
"No way. I have a different objective. To win."
lol at “brain [cramps]”. I guess the NHL isn’t ok with rough language like “fart”.
You had me at no problem.
I really thought he did say “cramps” in the presser. Maybe my brain censored him, too.
John Carlson - Glory follows him.
Six Beers Too Many Fantasy Team - BizNasty's Hobo Rodeo
It was a Corey typo. I heard “brain cramp”.
Alright, confess-how many goals are you going to make this year?
"I'm not going to tell!"
Well can you at least guarantee fifty?
"No way. I have a different objective. To win."
by capsyoungguns on Nov 15, 2010 2:35 PM EST up reply actions
we don’t want to win games 6-4
I seem to remember saying something like this in the Recap yesterday…. :)
"Do you see my fist? It was fists like these that built quaint Canadian cities out of the harsh Canadian wilderness, etc. etc."
Not in Seattle anymore.
by SeattleCapsFan on Nov 15, 2010 2:04 PM EST up reply actions
Theoretical – in a trade, what can the Caps realistically expect in return for Semin? (I know this has been beaten to death, so apologies.)
Can we have Sutter instead? I kinda like our forwards non broken.
Proud member of the Popsicle Division of the Cupcake Conference.
Why so much interest in Semin from the Preds today?
I assume you mean a deadline trade, where Semin has no extension and teams are not allowed to negotiate with him before completing the trade. That being the case, you could probably expect a return comparable to the Kovalchuk trade last season, if Semin’s numbers stay strong. A 1st rounder, a roster player, and a prospect. The Caps are not under anything near the pressure to move the player that Atlanta was, but Semin is also not as highly regarded as Kovalchuk, so I’ll call it a wash.
You had me at no problem.
I’ve always been interested in Semin in Nashville (that was me Vogel re-tweeted, if thats where you’re getting “interest”), and I don’t even care he’s Russian (some fans want to keep away from them thanks to Radulov).
I know he’s inconsistent, but he’s tailor made to the Nashville system, even though he may not be the hardest worker. He’s good defensively, great on the penalty kill, and would also solve the scoring winger problem. The only player I’d give up as much to get would be Marian Hossa, but he’s aging.
Weber and Suter are off limits, but I’d easily go Klein, a 1st, and Blake Geoffrion.
by Chris Burton on Nov 15, 2010 2:45 PM EST up reply actions
I personally don’t see Semin moving unless the team starts seriously struggling. He’s too valuable, otherwise.
by DrinkingPartner on Nov 15, 2010 2:47 PM EST up reply actions
I don’t either, but there has to be some sort of scenario where the Caps don’t think they can re-sign him and don’t want to lose him for nothing in free agency, right?
by Chris Burton on Nov 15, 2010 2:49 PM EST up reply actions
ANYTHING’S POSSIBLE. In that sitch, though, I’d probably expect a deal to happen for Semin’s rights pre-draft. I don’t think it’d be during the season. Unless that scenario is against some rule I’m not currently considering.
by DrinkingPartner on Nov 15, 2010 2:59 PM EST up reply actions
Some sort of scenario, sure. We could dream something up. But I wouldn’t hold my breath on a Semin trade.
As for losing Semin to UFA for nothing… It all depends on whether GMGM wants to sign Semin. If he does, then I bet Semin signs in DC, either before or after July 1st.
I think Semin wants to stay in DC. He does not want to be a franchise player, in the media spotlight constantly. In DC, he gets to stay comfortably in Ovie’s shadow, go pretty much unrecognized on the street, and never have to talk to the media in English.
In free agency, he MIGHT be able to get $7MM($8MM is ridiculous, and if Gaborik is worth $7.5MM, Semin is worth less than that). But he won’t get $7MM+ from DC, and certainly not for 10 years. I think something more like 5 years, $6.5MM is more like what GMGM would like.
You had me at no problem.
I agreed until I hit this part
if Gaborik is worth $7.5MM, Semin is worth less than that
Luckily for us, AO is cost-control (for himself and for everyone else who signs in DC – Nicky at 6 is incredible), and Semin is, also luckily, viewed as less valuable than Kovalchuk. Otherwise, he makes $7m easy, IMO, especially considering the new defensive aspects emerging in his game.
by DrinkingPartner on Nov 15, 2010 3:09 PM EST up reply actions
Well, no one in the league is going to earn as much as Ovie, unless Crosby goes UFA or the salary cap goes waaaay up.
The Kovalchuk contract can’t be a comparable, because Semin won’t get a lifetime contract like that, with a salary dive at the end to deflate the cap number.
I really think Gaborik is the best comp for Semin in free agency. It’s medium-term, for an elite offensive sniper with a track record for injury. But Gaborik is more consistent than Semin, and arguably better even when Semin is “on”.
Semin should get less than Backstrom, too.
You had me at no problem.
Gabby’s and Semin’s #‘s look fairly even to me. Good comp, I agree, but I’m not sure if Gaborik is clearly more valuable.
by mechanicsville on Nov 15, 2010 11:24 PM EST up reply actions
i’m hoping GMGM walks away if it’s in the neigborhood of $6.5M, but at the same time there’s no way semin should expect less than his current salary ($6M).
by Natty Bumppo on Nov 15, 2010 3:10 PM EST up reply actions
Well, you might expect Semin to get less than his current salary if he gets it long-term guaranteed. But I don’t see that happening if he scores 50 goals this season…
You had me at no problem.
but presumably that was on the table last year. as a rule players don’t take pay cuts barring a major fall from grace. bad for the player, and very bad for the agent’s reputation. that was my fear in giving him $6M last year…we’re basically locked into giving him 6+ if we want to keep him.
by Natty Bumppo on Nov 15, 2010 3:34 PM EST up reply actions
I could see Klein and a 1st being part of the package. Nashville would probably have to throw in another young, talented roster player, such as either of Cal O’Reilly or Patric Hornqvist, and maybe a prospect.
I’d throw in O’Reilly instead of Geoffrion, sure. Hornqvist is somewhat redundant to Laich and/or Fehr, though.
by Chris Burton on Nov 15, 2010 4:27 PM EST up reply actions
Better goal scorer than Laich, and until Fehr shows consistency Hornqvist isn’t redundant.
I don’t really want any part of Klein. If you want to talk about Blum I’d listen.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
Maybe so, but I’d be verrrrrry reluctant to part with the Horn Dog with no guarantee of Semin re-signing.
I only mentioned Klein because he’s an expendable NHL 3D. In any theoretical deal for Semin, Blum’s all yours. Its not that I don’t like the guy anymore, but he’s been passed by two other defensive prospects in the past few months.
by Chris Burton on Nov 15, 2010 4:39 PM EST up reply actions
I think you are too high on Klein. After the letdown in the Flash for Hamhuis stuff last year I don’t have a lot of energy for rosterbating with Nashville. I don’t think Semin is going anywhere so it’s all going to be moot.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
Maybe so, I was just looking at it from the “Caps need NHL defensemen” standpoint.
I hear you, but at the same time, I’m pretty sure something went wrong in the Caps/Preds negotiations. Its unfortunate, because we ended up swapping Hamhuis for O’Brien, and I would’ve much preferred a forward from Washington.
I very much doubt Semin leaves the Capitals, too, but it’ll be interesting. There aren’t many (any?) NHL teams that can keep four legitimate superstars and still compete for the Cup with a good supporting cast (cap-wise).
by Chris Burton on Nov 15, 2010 4:47 PM EST up reply actions
I know we need a D, but losing Semin for Klein in a year that we are poised to compete for a Cup is a huge step back. We can get a Klein-caliber D without giving up Semin.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
Right, which is why KK wasn’t the deal center piece.
by Chris Burton on Nov 15, 2010 5:39 PM EST up reply actions
Maybe not long term, but the First and Geoffrion aren’t going to help us do anything right now. So in terms of these playoffs, Klein was the center piece. Doesn’t make a ton of sense for us to make a move in contemplation of the future unless GMGM really thinks we can’t win this year.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
Yeah, that’s why I wanted Hornqvist or O’Reilly. Klein is decent, but part of him being decent is being signed to a really reasonable contract, having some upside, and being a really solid 5/6 D for us over the next three years. O’Reilly has 2C upside but could probably fit in as a 3C just as well, and while Hornqvist wouldn’t be replacement-level, he’d be another scoring threat on the powerplay.
In a vacuum, I think he’s realistically worth any top 2 D not named Keith, Green, Chara (maybe even, actually), or Doughty. At the same time, outside of a couple of franchise players (Stamkos, Crosby, the Sedins, etc), I think he could bring back any top 3 forward.
Real life realistically, though, I think, if traded, he’ll bring back someone like an equivalent combo of Phaneuf and Grabovski. Maybe St. Louis’d take him for Backes and a prospect? Maybe?
by DrinkingPartner on Nov 15, 2010 2:41 PM EST up reply actions
“Backes-equivalent” is what I meant.
by DrinkingPartner on Nov 15, 2010 2:46 PM EST up reply actions
More on Campbell email-gate
Still listening to Fan 590 and Greg Brady is backing Tyler Dellow. He’s bringing Tyler on after the break. You can listen here.
"I would feed them lefts until I was pretty much tired of doing it." - Alan May, JRR, 10.16.2010
Thanks. What a scoop for Dellow. And some have questioned the rights of bloggers in the locker room—hmm.
Alright, confess-how many goals are you going to make this year?
"I'm not going to tell!"
Well can you at least guarantee fifty?
"No way. I have a different objective. To win."
by capsyoungguns on Nov 15, 2010 2:38 PM EST up reply actions
thanks so much, bagace. i was able to catch the end of it. brady’s on top of it, but he’s hedging both ways. with the kind of response we’re seeing on NHL live, i’d think it would take follow-up by some determined journalists to make any kind of headway in the public forum.
by Natty Bumppo on Nov 15, 2010 2:56 PM EST up reply actions
FAN590 typically posts podcasts of their interviews, usually within a couple of hours, for those that missed it.
Greg Brady asked Tyler if he’s afraid of the fallout from publishing something like this. Tyler responded that, unlike MSM writers and media folks, he has no fear in losing access to contacts within the NHL since, as a blogger, he never had access to begin with. The spirit of Woodward and Bernstein lives on in Bloggers.
"I would feed them lefts until I was pretty much tired of doing it." - Alan May, JRR, 10.16.2010
he has no fear in losing access to contacts within the NHL since, as a blogger, he never had access to begin with.
Sweet. Very hacker-world in his attitude—operating outside of the system.
Alright, confess-how many goals are you going to make this year?
"I'm not going to tell!"
Well can you at least guarantee fifty?
"No way. I have a different objective. To win."
by capsyoungguns on Nov 15, 2010 7:09 PM EST up reply actions
it’s deadspin’s motto, and it’s a legitimate role for the blogosphere: “sports news without access, favor or discretion.” insider access only comes through favors and personal relationships. sometimes it’s the outsider perspective that’s needed.
by Natty Bumppo on Nov 15, 2010 8:03 PM EST up reply actions
See I had no idea of the motto etc. I operate instinctually. But I definitely sought out the blogger world for a different take in my gathering of information about the Caps and hockey. I wanted the kind of information I couldn’t find in the newspapers, although I still am a believer in the value of a good newspaper, the print version, which I read daily.
Alright, confess-how many goals are you going to make this year?
"I'm not going to tell!"
Well can you at least guarantee fifty?
"No way. I have a different objective. To win."
by capsyoungguns on Nov 15, 2010 9:07 PM EST up reply actions
Appropos of Nothing
This is a crime against nature:
We're Hüsker Dü and we're on MTV. Who are you, and what are you on?
That is awesome. I may wear that combo to Caps-Blues on December 1.
Thanks for the idea.
(I really won’t, but I could.)
Life With Spidey -- a blog about sports, travel, work, family and fun.
Representing Caps fandom in the Gateway to the West.
Ughh I saw that. Sitting right next to guys in St. Louis Cards and Miami Dolphins hats. All of them were bad, but the Yankees? Seriously?
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
by twistedlogic on Nov 15, 2010 3:15 PM EST up reply actions
Because he likes a team that isn’t from DC? Just because you hate the Yankees?
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
a) Hate the Yankees. b) Not sure why you’d want to profess support for two teams at the same time—like wearing a corduroy jacket while wearing cords. Or a belt when you’re wearing suspenders. c) The Yankees are the poster child for spend whatever you want whenever you want to get the player you want, the Caps are (becoming one of) the poster boys for draft, trade and sign with an intelligent plan in mind and stick to an economic philosophy that works. They’re just so opposite. Also—I hate the Yankees.
We're Hüsker Dü and we're on MTV. Who are you, and what are you on?
by bilspacecadet on Nov 15, 2010 4:57 PM EST up reply actions
So it comes down to hating the Yankees. I don’t even want to hear the “poster boy” stuff. Baseball is entirely different financially so it’s not really comparable, and the Caps haven’t won shit so how are the Caps the poster boys? More likely it’d be PIT or CHI. So if you don’t like people supporting two teams at once I assume you are upset by Nats hats at a Caps game? Of course not. Like it or not, there are lots of people that aren’t from DC, and have rooting interests from other cities, that became hockey fans when they moved to DC and thus are Caps fans.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
by Rob Parker on Nov 15, 2010 5:29 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
yes, but the are Yankees objectively evil. Maybe if it was some team that it could be acceptable to like, maybe the Lakers or someone like that. But the Yankees? Nobody should like them.
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Nov 15, 2010 5:37 PM EST up reply actions
as a non-partisan nats fan, i’ve gotta say i don’t consider the yanks evil in the slightest. the bitching from red sox fans, when their team also has one of the biggest payrolls in the sport, actually rankles me more than anything the yanks have or haven’t done.
by Natty Bumppo on Nov 15, 2010 7:44 PM EST up reply actions
(was snark by the way. I was hoping “objectively evil” would tip it off. And the suggestion that being a Lakers fan is somehow better than being a Yanks fan)
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Nov 16, 2010 8:45 AM EST up reply actions
I also see lots of people at Caps games wearing VT hats or VT jackets along with their caps gear, or Skins hats/jackets with caps gear. Combos of local teams seem to fit better, especially the red nats caps. (I know someone will take issue with the VT local designation.)
Personally I dislike the Yankees. But I am also mad right now at the Nats for not resigning Adam Dunn.
So now it’s about where the other team is from, not the fact that you are also representing another team.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
So you think people shouldn’t wear any gear from any other team to a sporting event? I don’t really understand that. Who really cares as long as they are also wearing caps gear. Some of us can think the guy above is a tool in his Yankee hat, but as long as he minds his business during the game and doesn’t scream in my ear/yell out stupid things all game/spill bear on me, I don’t really care what hat he chooses to wear.
I’m agreeing with you. I don’t care what else people wear. I’m a Steelers fan and if I wear a Steelers hat to VC WHO CARES?!?!?! I get that people don’t like the Yankees, but I don’t think it’s a big deal and if you get worked up about Yankee fans being everywhere then you’ll be pissed off a whole lot of the time.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
Nats may still re-sign him. Sure wish he had a better glove.
by mechanicsville on Nov 15, 2010 11:35 PM EST up reply actions
There are some of us here who are, in fact, both Caps and Yankees fans. Please keep in mind that the thing that unites us is our Caps fandom — beyond that, Rink members are a whole lot of other things.
Six Beers Too Many fantasy team: It's Neu-virth Than Usual
"I wake up in the middle night frustrated because we lost out in the first round and I want to see our players hoist the Stanley Cup." -Brooks Laich
by CapitalCentre on Nov 15, 2010 6:43 PM EST up reply actions
And some of us root for Duke and are perfectly capable of taking the nasty shots that come along with that.
John Carlson - Glory follows him.
Six Beers Too Many Fantasy Team - BizNasty's Hobo Rodeo
You’ve gotten defensive over Duke shots.
I’m not even a Yankees fan (though my wife is), I just think it’s silly to expect people to not represent other teams they root for.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
Anyway, my point is that I will stand up for my right to represent my fandom for Duke, but if I wore a Duke hat with my Caps gear and someone got all uptight about it, I wouldn’t be surprised or offended. I expect it.
John Carlson - Glory follows him.
Six Beers Too Many Fantasy Team - BizNasty's Hobo Rodeo
I guess, you get used to people giving you shit. I just think it’s dumb.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
Well, I wouldn’t actually do it. I’m not a glutton for punishment.
John Carlson - Glory follows him.
Six Beers Too Many Fantasy Team - BizNasty's Hobo Rodeo
I’m not even getting defensive. I just can’t see the point of bringing teams in other sports into this thread at all. Which is why I don’t generally get into those discussions here to begin with — this is the Caps hockey place.
I neglected to mention that some regulars aren’t even Caps fans — it never makes sense to me to cast aspersions on a team’s fans simply because they are fans of that particular team. People have all sorts of reasons for liking the team(s) they like — and it is, after all, just sports.
Six Beers Too Many fantasy team: It's Neu-virth Than Usual
"I wake up in the middle night frustrated because we lost out in the first round and I want to see our players hoist the Stanley Cup." -Brooks Laich
by CapitalCentre on Nov 15, 2010 9:59 PM EST up reply actions
I correspond with a person who fits that designation of liking the Caps and the Yankees. Was from NY originally, I do believe.
Even though I think of the Caps and Yankees as such different teams. The Yankees who are the ultimate winner with more World Championships than anyone. As opposed to the Caps who had numerous bad teams and all the post-season frustration.
Rocking the Red for the Caps since 1975. Rocking the Red on additional fronts as well.
I did. I’m a homer. Also wrote in Schultz and Neuvirth.
"Hockey is my life, wine is my passion." -- Igor Larionov
by Scott in Shaw on Nov 15, 2010 3:40 PM EST up reply actions
Writing in Schultz and Neuvirth is you being a homer ;) Semin, however, deserves to be there regardless of what team you root for and every time I vote I’m writing him in. I’m sure he’ll be there anyway, and I’m guessing he wouldn’t be a starter even if he was on the fan ballot, but I want to make my minimal little statement and put his name out there.
If anyone needs me, I'll be at Kettler.
by Becca H on Nov 15, 2010 4:20 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
While I voted for:
Forwards: Ovi-Stamkos-Semin
Defense: Green Doughty
Goal: Tim Thomas
Will admit I was voting for Doughty based on last year.
I also was doing the voting for 1 center and 2 wings thing (and Stamkos was doing well enough so I could omit Crosby without too much guilt.)
Rocking the Red for the Caps since 1975. Rocking the Red on additional fronts as well.
I wrote Semin in and voted Ovechkin and Backstrom, then Green, Lidstrom and Vokoun.
Well…all except the two times I wrote in Erskine. Just for funsies :)
Crosby and Stamkos certainly deserve to be there but they’ll be there without my help and I can’t in good conscience vote for them unless I thought it would be a struggle. Ovie will as well, obviously, but the homer in me can’t NOT vote for him.
If anyone needs me, I'll be at Kettler.
Same here. Hopefully AO gets good enough for me to honestly vote him in, but as for now, no.
by red army line on Nov 16, 2010 5:09 AM EST up reply actions
Eakin to wear the C for G6 of Subway Super Series
“Swift Current Broncos forward Cody Eakin has been named Team WHL captain for game six of the SUBWAY Super Series in Prince George, BC…”
http://www.oursportscentral.com/services/releases/?id=4116126
Yay, Cody!
John Carlson - Glory follows him.
Six Beers Too Many Fantasy Team - BizNasty's Hobo Rodeo
That is a big deal! Nice!
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Nov 15, 2010 5:38 PM EST up reply actions
Wow. How great is that—wearing the C. Congrats to Cody.
Alright, confess-how many goals are you going to make this year?
"I'm not going to tell!"
Well can you at least guarantee fifty?
"No way. I have a different objective. To win."
by capsyoungguns on Nov 15, 2010 7:18 PM EST up reply actions
Anybody catch Ovie on the Fan? It was a little hard to understand him. I think they asked Ovie about scoring less and if he was looking to set up plays for other people. He said he looked for Semin. He said something about his wrist shot, I couldn’t tell if he said he thought there was something wrong with it or he said there wasn’t something wrong with it. Maybe if I listen to the podcast it would be more clear. They asked him about who he’d pick first if he was the captain of the all star game and he picked Semin, although he didn’t know the exact rules.
He also talked about the DVD coming out, said it showed his life outside of hockey, his family, his hometown, his vacation. I think they asked if it showed him with women. Then they asked if girls liked him, he said some do, but more don’t. I think they even asked who, which he didn’t answer of course.
He turned down Lavar’s offer to show them around Pittsburgh during the Winter Classic, he said they already knew it well.
He’ll be on Fox5 teevee tomorrow morning.
You perhaps knew me better as "Your Nation's Capital." Same great commentary, now with 100% more transparency!
Thanks—I’ll check ITunes. Love that he’d pick Semin first, as well as of girls liking him—“some do, but more don’t.” He’s good with the quip tho’ he does mumble. He’s better when quoted in print.
Alright, confess-how many goals are you going to make this year?
"I'm not going to tell!"
Well can you at least guarantee fifty?
"No way. I have a different objective. To win."
by capsyoungguns on Nov 15, 2010 7:22 PM EST up reply actions
i’d think there would be some very minor drama if AO were captain and had to choose between backstrom and semin with his first pick. no biggie, though. as long as it can’t be used against GMGM in contract negotiations!
by Natty Bumppo on Nov 15, 2010 7:47 PM EST up reply actions
can we move discussion of the colin campbell story over to the fanshot? helps not having to post things twice.
(elliotte friedman has a story up with his own original reporting, weighing in on CC’s perceived partiality/impartiality.)
Guess not everyone was invited to Ovi's party tonight
@EricFehr16
I’m off to the #skins game with the man, the myth, the legend, @johnerskine04. Also joining us is Mr. Nasty
Cute, although that was tweeted that around 7pm. If he was just leaving Arlington for FedEx Field, me thinks he’ll be missing kickoff (or the first quarter, for that matter)
"I would feed them lefts until I was pretty much tired of doing it." - Alan May, JRR, 10.16.2010
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