Tuesday Caps Clips: Walking Wounded
by J.P. on Oct 26, 2010 6:41 AM EDT
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Your savory breakfast links:
- The Caps currently have seven players nursing various injuries... [Masisak]
- ... and that doesn't include Michael Nylander. Get well soon, Nyls. [Puck Daddy]
- The injuries, however, are no excuse for the team to tail off (except that, in reality they kind of are). [Carrera]
- More notes and assorted whatnot from yesterday's practice. [Dump 'n Chase, CI, Caps365 video (Boudreau, players)]
- For those of you keeping score at home, Braden Holtby was recalled yesterday and Dany Sabourin and Jay Beagle were returned to Hershey.
- Speaking of Holtby, here's a closer look at his play this past weekend. [Stack the Pads]
- Why how the Caps play in October actually does matter. [CSN Washington (May)]
- Getting Mike Green "back" in the lineup on Saturday was a good thing. Getting Mike Green back in the lineup will be even better. [SB Nation DC]
- PDO and what it means to the Caps. [RMNB]
- Bruce Boudreau fielded questions on his players' shift lengths, making adjustments, his captain's work ethic and more in a WaPo video chat. Cool. [WaPo]
- Wednesday night's game in Carolina is one of this week's "games to watch." Must be that whole "Joe Corvo facing his former team" storyline. [Burnside]
- Absolutely, positively all you could possibly want to read about the Alex Ovechkin GQ profile (and then some). [GQ (spoiler alert: AO apparently "loved the Penguins" growing up), NHL.com (Rosen), Puck Daddy, D.C. Sports Bog, DCist]
- Sittin' at the end of the bar for another round. [Peerless]
- Now this is one hell of a way to rock the red. [Explore Howard (h/t FanShot)]
- Former Cap Bob Sirois on how it's tougher to be a French-Canadian NHLer than one of those English-speakin' types. [Toronto Sun]
- Caps prospect Caleb Herbert is the USHL Player of the Week... [USHL]
- ... and Rookie Camp invitee Andy Miele is INCH's PoW. [INCH]
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Why how the Caps play in October actually does matter
Here is another reason why… No team finished its first five games under .500 and won the Stanley Cup since the Red Wings did it in 1996-1997 (this has bad meaning for Pittsburgh and New Jersey this year). No team finished below .500 in its first ten games and went on to win the Cup since the Devils did it in 1994-1995 (and that was the 48-game season). No team has been below .500 in a full season and won the Cup since Pittsburgh did it in 1990-1991.
October matters… a lot.
If you've read this far...seek help.
I dont buy into this. Sorry…after what we did in the regular season, and what the Flyers did…and then see them go to the show.
Maybe last year was a fluke, but I just want to see them rolling and healthy come Game 1 of the playoffs.
If we dont add pieces at the deadline that will jumpstart the lineup…I will also be concerned.
by SA-Town on Oct 26, 2010 8:37 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
The Flyers didn’t win the Cup. And history is what it is. If you don’t win in October, you don’t win in June. That is an historical fact.
If you've read this far...seek help.
It’s a historical fact, but may or may not have correlation, given all the other factors that go into a long season and winning the cup.
We can choose to hang on the historical fact and focus on the next three games as make or break. Or we can choose to look at the fact that there are 74 games left in the season and, we may have hit our mid-season lull early.
Just keep in mind that historical fact is not correlation. For years, until New Orleans, no team that played in a dome had won a Super Bowl. Fact, but not correlated.
Life With Spidey -- a blog about sports, travel, work, family and fun.
Representing Caps fandom in the Gateway to the West.
by STLSpidey on Oct 26, 2010 9:26 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Historical fact is correlation, the question is causation. Peerless is right that they’re correllated, but the underlying causes aren’t too clear.
"Essentially, all models are wrong, but some are useful" George E.P. Box
by Knee high to a duck on Oct 26, 2010 9:36 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I don’t agree. Correlation implies some level of relationship or dependence. Otherwise it’s coincidence. Statistical measures such as the correlation coefficient measure the strength of the relationship, but still doesn’t imply causation.
Another example is that, until Ronald Reagan, every President since William Henry Harrison who was elected in a year ending in zero died in office. That’s coincidence, not correlation. There is no relationship between one fact that would lead to the other.
In this instance, I don’t know that the October record has a bearing on winning the Stanley Cup. There may be a low level of causation in that teams can’t recover from slow starts. I just don’t know.
Life With Spidey -- a blog about sports, travel, work, family and fun.
Representing Caps fandom in the Gateway to the West.
by STLSpidey on Oct 26, 2010 9:43 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Its only coincidence until you find the common cause linking these seemingly disparate events.
I am a hockey fan first, and a Caps fan second.
by iwearstripes on Oct 26, 2010 9:53 AM EDT up reply actions
Agree with this, yes.
Life With Spidey -- a blog about sports, travel, work, family and fun.
Representing Caps fandom in the Gateway to the West.
Correlation is not causation. The historical fact is the correlation, the causation may or may not be related to that relationship.
"Essentially, all models are wrong, but some are useful" George E.P. Box
by Knee high to a duck on Oct 26, 2010 9:57 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
We agree that historical fact is not causation, we’re disagreeing on whether it’s correlation or not. I believe that correlation implies a relationship, and I distinguish between a relationship and causation. Two variables might move together due to a third variable that is the cause, for example. But those two variable are related. I distinguish between correlation and coincidence.
No worries. We’ll just agree to disagree.
Life With Spidey -- a blog about sports, travel, work, family and fun.
Representing Caps fandom in the Gateway to the West.
You two are in total agreement, you’re just redefining correlation.
'Cause the end of what it was is what it is right now...
So you are saying we’re correlated? :-)
Life With Spidey -- a blog about sports, travel, work, family and fun.
Representing Caps fandom in the Gateway to the West.
Fact #1 is the team’s record after 10 games. Fact #2 is the team did or did not win the Cup that year. That’s all ya got there.
Oh God. Please. Don’t suck me back in to this. I’m now having grad school stats class flashbacks.
Life With Spidey -- a blog about sports, travel, work, family and fun.
Representing Caps fandom in the Gateway to the West.
Right, which is what correlation is comprised of. There’s a relationship there, whether or not that relationship is causal doesn’t have anything to do with whether the two items are correlated or not.
"Essentially, all models are wrong, but some are useful" George E.P. Box
by Knee high to a duck on Oct 26, 2010 4:28 PM EDT up reply actions
I just see two facts. You can do what you want with them. In this case I don’t think the two put together mean all that much. How about someone go thru a different set of 10 games during the year. How many teams had a 1-9 stretch, or a 3-7 streak and won the Cup.
These off-days really bite.
All I’m doing is defining the word ‘correlation’. I am absolutely not implying causation, just making it clear that correlation doesn’t imply that, either.
"Essentially, all models are wrong, but some are useful" George E.P. Box
by Knee high to a duck on Oct 26, 2010 4:38 PM EDT up reply actions
If anyone wants to engage in the academic exercise of establishing causation (you would need to identify and test a candidate for “cause” — scheduling, early season injury, coaching, talent, sunspots — then test), fine. Knock yourselves out. But that merely “explains” a result (i.e., how it came to pass). As a predictive matter — if “A” happens, “B” transpire — it is irrelevant. I can tell you, with a rather substantial degree of certainty, that if you lose more than you win over your first ten games, you are not going to win in June. The test is the calendar, and the result has followed without exception for more than a decade. It is a perfect model of prediction? No. The fact that there was an exception to identify more than a decade ago in each instance is evidence of that. But the search for causation and correlation? Let’s not try to cut statistical butter with a methologolical chain saw.
If you've read this far...seek help.
by ThePeerless on Oct 26, 2010 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions
Peerless – I do not dispute what you’ve found, but I do dispute its relevance.
If we take what you’ve found at face value, then, if the Caps were to lose the next three games and finish October at 5-6, we should hang ’em up for this year. In fact, we should hang them up, regardless of where other teams are, regardless of the factors in the six losses, regardless of the roster they fielded, etc.
I don’t buy it. I don’t buy that a losing record in the first 11 games of the season of 5-6 carries that much meaning.
In fact, I would argue that a losing streak towards the end of the season, going into the playoffs cold, is a more critical factor. But wait. Last year – on March 1, the Blackhawks were 41-15-5. They proceeded to go 6-7-2 in March, before winning 5 of 6 in April.
I will be much more concerned if the Caps have a March 2011 like the Hawks’ March 2010, than I would be a 5-6 October 2010.
Life With Spidey -- a blog about sports, travel, work, family and fun.
Representing Caps fandom in the Gateway to the West.
Maybe I’m not expressing this clearly enough. Of the last 18 Stanley Cup champions, NONE of them started their first ten games under .500. That’s no worse a predictor of a result than the more discrete notion that the best predictor of who wins an NHL game is which team scores first.
Fortunately, the Caps cannot finish their first ten games under .500.
If you've read this far...seek help.
by ThePeerless on Oct 26, 2010 12:23 PM EDT up reply actions
thank [your choice of deity here] for small favors, i guess.
Pledge Drive 2010-2011: SO KIDS CAN!! Help build a playground
If there’s proof that one deity is better than another, I’ll be happy to jump on a bandwagon – as long as my grandmother (may she rest in peace) doesn’t find out.
Life With Spidey -- a blog about sports, travel, work, family and fun.
Representing Caps fandom in the Gateway to the West.
Understood.
Life With Spidey -- a blog about sports, travel, work, family and fun.
Representing Caps fandom in the Gateway to the West.
Of the last 18 Stanley Cup champions, NONE of them started their first ten games under .500.
Why did you pick 18? What does it look like when you go to 30? Or 50?
A sample size of the last 18 is interesting, but I don’t find it extremely compelling, nor does it bestow urgency upon October that wouldn’t otherwise be there.
That’s no worse a predictor of a result than the more discrete notion that the best predictor of who wins an NHL game is which team scores first.
Agree, but that’s not saying anything. If you win, you scored more goals, which means you’re likely to have scored first.
You scored first b/c you scored more goals. You didn’t score more goals simply b/c you scored first.
"By far the worst performers on the team are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins
No, the Flyers didnt win the Cup, but they were in a position we would of died for last year, and they did it while drudging through an 82 game season.
Someone ask Bruce Boudreau how comfortable he’d be following the 2009-10 Flyers model.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
by J.P. on Oct 26, 2010 9:38 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Here’s an idea. Wait til the end of November, fire Bruce, and bring John Stevens in to lead the Caps to the Cup.
by mechanicsville on Oct 26, 2010 10:44 AM EDT up reply actions
how about fire BB and hire mark french to lead them to the cup, he actually makes adjustments in-game a la last year’s 0-2 hole in the Calder cup (unlike BB and the trap).
If the Caps were to fire Boudreau, I doubt they’d be looking to replace him with a Boudreau disciple.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
Although realistic, it’s not unheard of to have the disciple be better than the master.
Don Coryell comes to mind. Gibbs, Martz, Walsh, and Madden all used his “system” and coached under him but tweaked it for better results. (Football, I know)
Not to mention Obi-Wan and Darth Vader.
If wishes were horses, we'd all be eating steak.
by Hang a Laingtern on Your Problems on Oct 26, 2010 1:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Did any of them replace Coryell when he was fired? My point was that if the Caps make a change, it’s not going to be a small one.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
None of those guys specifically but Al Saunders replaced him…def a Coryell disciple, and after Saunders was Dan Henning, who was a Coryell and Gibbs assistant.
I do see your point however.
Yeah, it’s not really about French to me – dude might well be a better coach than Bruce. But when a team like this makes a coaching change, usually it’s going to be a culture change, too (“players coach” to hardass, etc.).
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
That’s my thinking, it’s about culture. I guess if French is known to be more of a hard ass, but still likes that up-tempo hockey, then GMGM would give him a look. But this team, should BB get fired, needs a guy that isn’t so friendly with them.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
And probably also someone who has proven he can win in the NHL playoffs.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
I bet Crawford at least gets an interview.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
I am cool with that.
I poured spot remover on my dog. Now he's gone.
by Rather Bengt on Oct 26, 2010 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions
So what about Pittsburgh? They got their coach fired midway. Whether they were above .500 in October or not isn’t the relevant point. They stunk early, pulled their head out of their ass late, and won the Cup.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
Someone ask Bruce Boudreau how comfortable he’d be following the 2008-09 Penguins model.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
Good thing it’s not his opinion that matters. If he doesn’t want to follow that model then maybe he should get the team’s shit together. Injuries are one thing, but if anyone wants to say there isn’t some coaching that could be improved then they aren’t really paying attention. I can’t imagine that even GMGM is all that happy with BB’s early season performance.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
I can’t imagine that even BB is all that happy with GMGM’s early season performance either.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
True, but one of those opinions actually matters.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
Not really, BB’s opinion is irrelevant unless it’s also Ted’s opinion. In that case it’s only relevant because Ted thinks it. GMGM can fire BB, BB cannot fire GMGM.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
Yeah, I was looking at the opinions as “objects” in and of themselves, more or less. BB’s opinion (in this scenario) as an idea is a powerful one (the idea that there isn’t enough depth), even if BB doesn’t have the power to act on it. It’s one that would bring him the support/sympathy of many, most likely.
Sure. And I was really just mentioning it here (and above) to emphasize what happens when talented teams underperform.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
Would it be asking too much to put in a breakout that doesn’t involve slinging the puck up the boards and hoping for the best? The power play is night and day, so it appears that coaching does go on with this team from time to time. Caps centers skate pretty darn well and I’d sure like to see them carrying the puck through the neutral zone more often.
by mechanicsville on Oct 26, 2010 11:46 AM EDT up reply actions
I’m sure they have a breakout, they just don’t have the D to make it happen right now. My bigger concerns are with shift length and the lack of a 60 minute effort. Those are two quintessential coaching responsibilities, and have been pretty dreadful thus far. The PP will come around, regardless of what BB does, there’s so much skill it will score (though, again, the 2 minute PP shifts is on him and I’d really rather see him go to two actual units. Weren’t we supposed to have, like, lots of scoring depth?).
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
by Rob Parker on Oct 26, 2010 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I’ll double-tap what F&B says with regard to personnel: you can’t expect Erskine and Sloan to make smart plays with the puck. It’s just not their job.
With that being said, the coaches need to adjust the forwards’ position on the breakout to compensate for this. If it means that the wingers have to drop down lower on the boards to support these guys, they may need to do it, if only temporarily.
'Cause the end of what it was is what it is right now...
Even with Green back there, they’d be better off having a defense-before-offense breakout. It’ll in theory keep the guys entering the zone as a group instead of Ovie skating alone into a pack of blueliners or Semin getting trapped against the boards as he skates it up.
Human existence being an hallucination containing in itself the secondary hallucinations of day and night (the latter an insanitary condition of the atmosphere due to accretions of black air) it ill becomes any man of sense to be concerned at the illusory approach of the supreme hallucination known as death.
The Pens may have started off badly this year but they’re one of top dogs in the conference at the moment, tied in points (even though Montreal and Tampa Bay have a game in hand).
So, below .500 in their first 5 game hardly matters since they “righted” their ship since then.
As for the Devils…..
Rocking the Red since 1975
Re: the pic accompanying the Clips
I don’t think Holtby will need Erskine to stand up for him if someone tries to run him. Holt’s got a bit of the crazy in him.
John Carlson - Glory follows him.
Six Beers Too Many Fantasy Team - BizNasty's Hobo Rodeo
I don’t want Holtby standing up for himself.
"Now wait a minute. This is just purely a social call. You know, just two adults getting a stew on, man."
by The Ghost of Bebop on Oct 26, 2010 9:26 AM EDT up reply actions
Not ideal, at all. But boy that would be entertaining to watch.
"Do you see my fist? It was fists like these that built quaint Canadian cities out of the harsh Canadian wilderness, etc. etc."
Not in Seattle anymore.
by SeattleCapsFan on Oct 26, 2010 9:27 AM EDT up reply actions
...
I agree with this statement. You must respect Mr. Holtby.
Signed,
Evgeny Kuznetsov
"I would feed them lefts until I was pretty much tired of doing it." - Alan May, JRR, 10.16.2010
__________
Matt Martin co-signs Geno’s letter.
You perhaps knew me better as "Your Nation's Capital." Same great commentary, now with 100% more transparency!
Here…let me straighten your #@$%ing HELMET!
If you've read this far...seek help.
by ThePeerless on Oct 26, 2010 12:00 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Hope everyone heals up quick. The HBO cameras roll into Kettler at the end of next week.
You perhaps knew me better as "Your Nation's Capital." Same great commentary, now with 100% more transparency!
…with your stars of the show Jay Beagle and Braden Holtby.
I poured spot remover on my dog. Now he's gone.
by Rather Bengt on Oct 26, 2010 8:07 AM EDT up reply actions
I think Beagle was just reassigned. Varly will probably have to sit this one out too. Wouldn’t want him to strain the groin filming reality television.
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
by twistedlogic on Oct 26, 2010 8:48 AM EDT up reply actions
Braden Holtby would make some Quality reality television. Quality with a capital Q.
(Which reminds me, isn’t he a Hockey Diaries guy this year? We’ll get to hear about his Caps roadie!)
You perhaps knew me better as "Your Nation's Capital." Same great commentary, now with 100% more transparency!
Mmm… Capital Q….
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
by J.P. on Oct 26, 2010 9:06 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Baby back rec’d.
"Hockey is my life, wine is my passion." -- Igor Larionov
by Scott in Shaw on Oct 26, 2010 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions
It’s not really in the name of the place – it’s Capital Q (or Capital Q BBQ). If it was “Billy Bob’s Austin BBQ,” yeah, it’s probably a fail.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
miscalled by the announcers as a goal by chris clark, but still an incredible all-around effort last night by captain cadaver.
Truly. He looked great last night.
John Carlson - Glory follows him.
Six Beers Too Many Fantasy Team - BizNasty's Hobo Rodeo
And Philly looked like shit. So the Caps’re not the only ones struggling to find a rhythm, which is nice.
Patron saint of quality footwear.
Yea, that doesn’t make me feel all that much better.
"Do you see my fist? It was fists like these that built quaint Canadian cities out of the harsh Canadian wilderness, etc. etc."
Not in Seattle anymore.
by SeattleCapsFan on Oct 26, 2010 9:00 AM EDT up reply actions
Anytime a Philadelphia team struggles, somewhere an angel gets its wings.
by b.orr4 on Oct 26, 2010 9:14 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Which is good because Richards just blindsided the angel and paralyzed it from the waist down.
Human existence being an hallucination containing in itself the secondary hallucinations of day and night (the latter an insanitary condition of the atmosphere due to accretions of black air) it ill becomes any man of sense to be concerned at the illusory approach of the supreme hallucination known as death.
by sydtron on Oct 26, 2010 10:46 AM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
I know, I know, you can’t use injuries as an excuse but when you’re playing with a defensive corp that’s closer to AHL caliber than the NHL, it’s going to have an impact. And I would make the argument that it’s part of the reason for the team’s offensive slump, particularly the first line’s. When you don’t have a Green there to carry the puck out of the zone, it forces the forwards to go back and do it themselves. That slows down the attack and makes it easier for the opposition to clog up the neutral zone. When Green is out there at full speed, this team is dramatically more dangerous offensively. If they can get through this stretch of injuries staying above .500 and close to first in the SE, they should be fine. They just can’t let themselves become NJ bad.
Speaking of New Jersey bad, Volchekov has missed the last seven games and will be sitting out at least another three after taking that Bäckslapper to the face.
You perhaps knew me better as "Your Nation's Capital." Same great commentary, now with 100% more transparency!
But it’s only a broken nose. Right.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
I thought I read something recently from the team that said broken nose and head trauma.
(Yes, I know about the avatar hounding - just pretend mine is invisible.)
Head/neck. Like the worst case of whiplash ever.
You perhaps knew me better as "Your Nation's Capital." Same great commentary, now with 100% more transparency!
so he goes on LTIR just in time for another guy to come off? Or am I being much too cynical?
Pledge Drive 2010-2011: SO KIDS CAN!! Help build a playground
a defensive corp that’s closer to AHL caliber than the NHL
I’m actually pretty surprised you’re the first person I’ve heard describe them this way. With a few exceptions, I’d say this is pretty accurate.
"Do you see my fist? It was fists like these that built quaint Canadian cities out of the harsh Canadian wilderness, etc. etc."
Not in Seattle anymore.
by SeattleCapsFan on Oct 26, 2010 9:02 AM EDT up reply actions
And that was my point in the bullet, that of all the possible excuses a team might have (from opposing hot goalies to tough travel to whatever), injuries are probably the most legit, to an extent. I mean, you can’t lose a Norris finalist and arguably your top veteran/all-around minute-eating D and expect for there not to be a drop off in the team’s play.
That said, what it’s not an excuse for, of course, is a drop off in the level of effort everyone puts out.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
It would have been less of an issue last year when the Caps were 7-8 deep on D with Alzner and Carlson in Hershey.
The injuries are the proximate cause, but poor roster construction is the underlying cause. This is a team with very little margin for error in two key positions (Center and Defense).
'Cause the end of what it was is what it is right now...
by D'ohboy on Oct 26, 2010 10:41 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Absolutely agree on all counts.
And that the team is now playing two of its prized possessions (52 and 74) at way less than 100% in October is… well… is negligent too strong a word?
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
Penny-wise and pound-foolish.
As much as many have soured on the Joe Corvo acquisition, this was exactly the sort of scenario you had a guy like that around for.
Of course, in defense of GMGM, it’s tough to envision a scenario in which Green, Poti and Carlson are all banged up. On the other hand, it might not be such a huge issue if we weren’t playing with two AHL defensemen on the roster in the first place.
'Cause the end of what it was is what it is right now...
It’s just unconscionable that there was no “Plan B” when Mitchell and/or everyone else fell through. No Mara. No Mottau. No nothing. And here we are.
And I don’t accept the defense of GMGM – we (us, Peerless, others) noted how incredibly unlikely it was to get through an NHL season using just 7 defensemen (and that’s generously accepting Sloan as an NHL blueliner). And here we are.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
by J.P. on Oct 26, 2010 10:55 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I’d guess (presume?) it’s a wording issue with D’oh. If you’re missing 3 of your D starters even with a vet or two it’s going to be a clusterfrak (n00bs still adjusting to the system and new partners, etc), just not as bad. But yeah, definitely not smart.
"I’m happy to have contributed to this league, to have done something important in my career, I’m proud, but you always will think you still could’ve done more, but tonight tells I’ve done things well."
by Bald Pollack on Oct 26, 2010 10:57 AM EDT up reply actions
Bostin just lost Botchuk for several weeks with a Dubinsky’d broken wrist. Yotesblogs noted that Sami Lepisto put down the nachos and suited up for a game where the Bruins’ scouting staff just happened to be watching.
You perhaps knew me better as "Your Nation's Capital." Same great commentary, now with 100% more transparency!
I’m mildly surprised that the team didn’t attempt to bring back either Pothier or Jurcina on cheap contracts, then move Sloan back to Hershey.
Still, if we’re being fair to GMGM, take Keith, Seabrook and Campbell away from the Blackhawks, or Lidstrom, Rafalski and Stuart from the Red Wings, etc., and you’re looking at a pretty crappy D there, too. This is part of the salary cap era.
In the offseason, I was hoping for some bargain-basement depth. I knew it was going to be touch and go with such young defensemen, but I couldn’t foresee this many injuries this soon.
'Cause the end of what it was is what it is right now...
I’m mildly surprised that the team didn’t attempt to bring back either Pothier or Jurcina on cheap contracts
This thought was on constant replay in my head during the Isles game. I’ve never really liked Juice, but he’s a hell of a lot better than the options we’ve got now.
"Do you see my fist? It was fists like these that built quaint Canadian cities out of the harsh Canadian wilderness, etc. etc."
Not in Seattle anymore.
by SeattleCapsFan on Oct 26, 2010 11:02 AM EDT up reply actions
I think once you’ve signed and played in Europe, you can’t play in the NHL that year.
'Cause the end of what it was is what it is right now...
Mottau could have been gotten quite easily and is now eating up 20 minutes on average a night on the Island.
Woulda coulda shoulda.
I poured spot remover on my dog. Now he's gone.
by Rather Bengt on Oct 26, 2010 11:03 AM EDT up reply actions
I wasn’t too upset about missing out on Mottau at the time, but it’s looking like I was really wrong there. I think the two-year aspect put off GMGM.
'Cause the end of what it was is what it is right now...
Which is silly, because it’s not like our D problems are going to really be solved next season.
"Do you see my fist? It was fists like these that built quaint Canadian cities out of the harsh Canadian wilderness, etc. etc."
Not in Seattle anymore.
by SeattleCapsFan on Oct 26, 2010 11:08 AM EDT up reply actions
Right, but with the number of FAs the Caps have next year, tying up cap space then could really hose us. Given how cheap Mottau turned out to be though – he’s only a $100k marginal cost over Sloan – it seems kinda silly.
'Cause the end of what it was is what it is right now...
Ah, see the FA complication is stuff I always forget about. That’s why I love the Rink, you guys help keep me abreast of all the contract details.
"Do you see my fist? It was fists like these that built quaint Canadian cities out of the harsh Canadian wilderness, etc. etc."
Not in Seattle anymore.
by SeattleCapsFan on Oct 26, 2010 11:14 AM EDT up reply actions
Mottau for two years would have been a problem. But there were other ways that GMGM could have bolstered the team’s defensive depth for this year without making a long-term commitment to another player.
Moreover, what do these players have in common:
Ryan Parent
Shane O’Brien
Derek Meech
A) All of them were available on waivers at some point in the offseason, and all of them would be reliable depth defensemen in the organization.
That’s where the ‘we must only keep seven D because our depth guys don’t like sitting’ issue rears its head.
Even beyond those on waivers, they could have done a better job this summer than to have Fahey as the apparent #8 available in Hershey.
This speaks to a more troubling issue. They can’t possibly think Sloan is a threat to get claimed off waivers, can they?
Apparently so, although recent examples of players clearing should definitely show how unrealistic that concern is.
If you’re an organization that prides itself on having quality organizational depth—which one assumes goes along with icing championship-calibre AHL teams—then losing players to waivers kind of goes with the territory. It’s a byproduct of having quality organizational depth. It should only be a concern if your depth really isn’t all that special.
I think the two-year aspect put off GMGM.
At least he can sleep well knowing Tyler Sloan is locked up until the end of 2011-2012.
I poured spot remover on my dog. Now he's gone.
by Rather Bengt on Oct 26, 2010 11:11 AM EDT up reply actions
You need 10. Mirtle, you, Peerless, and some otherss have all noted it. 10. It’s not a secret.
In the off season I distinctly recall you listed the top-10 D in the organization and said, “yuck”.
This is beyond forseeable, it’s, well, “expectable” is the best word I can come up with now.
Patron saint of quality footwear.
by fat_daddyo on Oct 26, 2010 11:26 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Tough situation with Mitchell in that he wasn’t going to get signed until later in the free agent period. If GMGM signs “Plan B” first, does he have room to execute Plan A? How much was he banking on the Belanger deal that was never made?
The killer for me was why he didn’t sign Jurcina for 1yr and $1M. Pretty good chance he would have signed here for a bit less than that. I’d take him over Sloan, Fahey, Nycholat any day.
Just trying to capture the spirit of the thing...
by dcsportsfan1 on Oct 26, 2010 11:36 AM EDT up reply actions
The biggest thing with Juice is that he probably thought he’d get more minutes in NYI to show of his skills. He knew he’d be buried here again.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
I think this also factored into Mottau. Would you come to a team where you were essentially guaranteed to be a 5/6?
'Cause the end of what it was is what it is right now...
Tough call if it were me. Chance to play for SC contender or in an empty mausoleum for team that is in all likelihood headed for the golf course in April. I think in this day and age, if you are playing well you are going to get noticed even if you are a 5/6 d man vs a 1-2.
In fact, you may look better being a 5-6 on a good team vs a 1-2 on a team that gets that is losing. (and yes, I recognize the Isles currently have the same number of points as the Caps)
Just trying to capture the spirit of the thing...
by dcsportsfan1 on Oct 26, 2010 12:10 PM EDT up reply actions
It’s all about the money. Where do you think he can put up better stats and therefore earn a better salary on his next contract?
'Cause the end of what it was is what it is right now...
In general, I would say he could do better playing well on a good team vs. playing well on a bad team. If the Caps were to win a Cup or do damage in the playoffs and Jurcina was part of the D corps, he does better than if he played a larger role on a team like the Isles who will struggle this year. IMO.
In fact, his stats may look worse on the Isles even if he played over his head than they would playing average on the Caps. Depends upon how well he is scouted by other teams. Also, if he were to shine in the playoffs with the Caps, that will do wonders for his wallet.
Just trying to capture the spirit of the thing...
by dcsportsfan1 on Oct 26, 2010 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions
It’s all about ice time and PP ice time. Mottau doesn’t get much of either on the Caps, barring injury, while he will (and is) on the Isles. That’s how you get the gaudy boxcars.
'Cause the end of what it was is what it is right now...
Yet Erskine is skating 20+ a night. Who has the last laugh now, Juice?
Human existence being an hallucination containing in itself the secondary hallucinations of day and night (the latter an insanitary condition of the atmosphere due to accretions of black air) it ill becomes any man of sense to be concerned at the illusory approach of the supreme hallucination known as death.
People on the SBN Islanders board do not speak kindly of Jurcina. I haven’t seen enough of his game this year, so I don’t know how realistic their complaints are.
If he’s getting top 4 minutes, I can understand the complaints. He’s not that great of a player…he had his moments but you don’t want to depend on what is essentially a poor man’s Chara to be one of your shut down guys.
Human existence being an hallucination containing in itself the secondary hallucinations of day and night (the latter an insanitary condition of the atmosphere due to accretions of black air) it ill becomes any man of sense to be concerned at the illusory approach of the supreme hallucination known as death.
He looked bad most of the time I’ve watched, except against the Caps and the following game where he scored 2. Part of it was ridiculous expectations. When he got signed I checked out Lighthouse hockey and they were all talking about his size (that means he hits!) and his hard shot (so he should score a million!). He hits some, but he’s still too slow to hit a lot, and his shot is useless in a game, so they are disappointed.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
I know the popular ideology amongst a lot of fans after the Caps lost out on Mitchell was “We’ll just add someone at the deadline.” I wonder if McPhee had that idea in mind as well but also wonder if he’s willing to move that timeframe up a little bit. I think the longer we go without another depth D or even two, the more we have to force players like Carlson to play through nagging injuries which could add up by April.
I’m of the mindset that McPhee needs to act relatively quickly as opposed to waiting until the 25th hour.
exactly, GMGM needs to act sooner, rather than later to give the new guy(s) a chance to settle in with the team. Chimera did a lot better fitting into the team than the guys we got at the trade deadline. The only problem is that you’ve got to give it some time to make the players you want to (are willing to) trade look better.
LET'S GO CAPS!!!
Now would be a bad time for GMGM to try and make a move. Teams will try and fleece him knowing how thin he is on D. Given that none of the current injuries seem to be long term, would be best if he were to wait it out.
Just trying to capture the spirit of the thing...
by dcsportsfan1 on Oct 26, 2010 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions
The price is also going to be high at the deadline when other teams are competing with us and driving up the prices. I’d hope GMGM is at least exploring options right now. I just hope he doesn’t see the price of milk and decide to go conservative.
Right. So the optimal time to deal is when we are healthy and before the deadline. Not easy since there may not be any willing sellers at that time. Then again, he was able to pull off the Clark/Chimera deal at an odd time.
The way this is going, GMGM is going to have to bite the bullet and pay full retail. Failure to make any moves to shore up that D would be a violation of his fiduciary duty to Caps fans and ownership.
Just trying to capture the spirit of the thing...
by dcsportsfan1 on Oct 26, 2010 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions
As an outsider, I don’t really understand how they ended up in that situation. Belief was they’d upgrade later in the year?
Blogging on hockey at The Globe and Mail
by James Mirtle on Oct 26, 2010 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Theory (presumably) was “Let’s see what we’ve got in Alzner and Carlson before we go and commit to a top-4 guy, since, by spring, those guys could be top-4’s.” Hence not going after Martin/Michalek/Volchenkov and bailing on Mitchell.
Obviously that doesn’t address the 7-10 depth, which is what we’re seeing now as the problem (albeit one that anyone would probably have seen as a very realistic risk/probability at some point).
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
The problem with waiting until the deadline to make a move is the fact that stay-at-home defencemen are at a premium around playoff time. The cost of bringing in a shut down D-man may be more at the deadline than it would have been in the off season, not to mention what team would be willing to give up a top defenceman just before playoffs? The quality of the defenseman is likely to be lower.
Le-Tang: Ain't Nuthin To Puck With!
Yup. Not to mention that in the summer, all you have to give up is $$, when at the deadline you’re looking at moving assets (players and/or picks).
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
PDO
I wonder what the team PDO is right now?
We all knew the Caps got lucky last year with their scoring and injuries, and expected a falloff in their point totals. They’re sitting at a .622 points percentage, which will get you into the playoffs…
Patron saint of quality footwear.
I think you can use nhl.com to find ES shots for, ES shots against and the corresponding percentages. Add up the sv% and the s% and Bob’s your uncle.
"Essentially, all models are wrong, but some are useful" George E.P. Box
by Knee high to a duck on Oct 26, 2010 9:40 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Had to hand-tabulate the shot reports on a game by game basis, so the potential for user error exists.
Here’s what I came up with:
18 goals-for on 202 shots at ES (counting 4 v. 4 and 5 v. 5 situations – there were no 3 v. 3 situations recorded) yields a shooting percentage of .089.
16 goals-against on 191 ES shots against (meaning 175 saves in 191 opportunities) yields a save percentage of .916.
Total PDO: 1.005. A tick above the expected average of 1000.
(Note that this data includes a PS goal-for and goal-against in the data, which I’m not sure if it should or not.)
Patron saint of quality footwear.
Another note on PDO: some players drive s% when they’re on the ice, so their PDO regresses to a higher number than 1000. So while we’d expect them to come down, there’s no reason that they should beyond small coaching adjustments and chance.
In other words, while a regression is likey, it’s not because of an angry deity smiting their luck back to normal.
"Essentially, all models are wrong, but some are useful" George E.P. Box
by Knee high to a duck on Oct 26, 2010 9:49 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
In other words, while a regression is likey, it’s not because of an angry deity smiting their luck back to normal.
This may be semantics, but I read your previous statement not as “luck back to normal,” but as “some folks have a higher ‘normal’ than others.”
'Cause the end of what it was is what it is right now...
The previous statement wasn’t very well written, I should have just put the phone down and finished the conversation I was having. What I really meant to say:
For the NHL population, PDO is 1000. That makes sense; shooting percentage + save percentage should be 1000. What also happens is that individuals tend to regress towards 1000, hard. Whether that’s luck or other teams adjusting to scheme, I don’t know. I’m inclined to think it’s mostly luck.
But not all players are average. David Steckel, he of the negligible finishing ability, is going to regress to something under 1000, because the shooting percentage while he’s on the ice is probably low; he doesn’t finish well and he’s not very good at setting people up, either. Alex Ovechkin has one of the highest on-ice shooting percentages in the league and has for basically his entire career; when he’s on the ice, good things happen and he regresses to something more than 1000 — maybe 1020.
From the other end, there are two camps on D affecting sv%. When a 1D by TOI goes down, the team save percentage falls over the time he’s out, according to Gabe Desjardins. According to Sunny Mehta, individual D might influence sv%, but the noise is huge; it’s hard to distinguish guys that are just having a lucky couple of years from guys that genuinely influence sv%. What the confluence of the two seems to point to is that 1D and 1F tend to cancel each other out over the long-run, which is why coaches tend to run 1D out against 1F; if they don’t, their lower pairs not only give up more shots, but they get scored on more often.
Let’s posit, for sake of argument, that the best defensive D in the league (probably still Lidstrom) can affect sv% in the same way that AO can affect s%. We’d expect his PDO to regress to 1020, also, but if he spent significant time on the ice against AO or Crosby or in-his-prime-Iginla, they’d all have lower PDOs.
So yes, some folks have a higher normal than others, but they can cancel each other out.
"Essentially, all models are wrong, but some are useful" George E.P. Box
by Knee high to a duck on Oct 26, 2010 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions
So… just what DOES “PDO” mean? Well, if you’re the Caps…
“Praying for the Delivery of Ovechkin?
“Pretty Damned Offensive?”
“Puny Defensemen Over-and-over?”
“Putting Destiny Out-of-reach”
“Poti Down with an Ow-ee”
If you've read this far...seek help.
by ThePeerless on Oct 26, 2010 12:07 PM EDT up reply actions
From the Peerless link…
— I might have thought the Caps had been eliminated from playoff competition based on what I’ve been reading the last few days, I would not have thought that no team in the East has more wins, and only three have more points.
It’s funny how expectations can drive perception. The Caps have definitely been struggling to score, no doubt, but are still finding ways to least win games…and when it comes time to count up points at the end of the season, that’s what’s important.
3 games go to OT this year (out of only 8!), 3 games won (without going to shootout). That says a lot to me. Maybe if the entire game was “overtime” the Caps could start scoring more often? Silly statement, but i think it proves that some of their issues are possibly psychologically driven. Is it possible that when the game is on the line and the sudden death-ness of OT comes into play, the team tends to “forget” about their scoring slump?
I’m not too worried just yet, not at all. This team needs to find a rhythm, but I have no doubt that they will, and when it does happen the goals will start to materialize again.
Now, if I were a Devils or Sens fan right now…
"I am ready for his provocations"
twitter
by PaintDrinkingPete on Oct 26, 2010 9:26 AM EDT reply actions
Moar regulation wins please. Don’t like handing out free Bettman points. The ATL has got 3 of four available points from us this young season already.
But agreed on the Devs/Sens fandom question. Ugh.
You perhaps knew me better as "Your Nation's Capital." Same great commentary, now with 100% more transparency!
Agreed — but winning in OT still beats only getting the 1 consolation point for losing in OT, from a Caps perspective.
The real point was is that, in 3 opportunities this season, the Caps managed to score a goal when the game was on the line, and with only 5 minutes to get it done…yet are struggling to put the puck in the net during full 20 minute periods.
"I am ready for his provocations"
twitter
by PaintDrinkingPete on Oct 26, 2010 9:52 AM EDT up reply actions
Per the team
Fahey recalled.
"I’m happy to have contributed to this league, to have done something important in my career, I’m proud, but you always will think you still could’ve done more, but tonight tells I’ve done things well."
What, dressing 5.25 Ds doesn’t cut it in the NHL these days?
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
Yeah, but neither does 5.5 Ds for that matter.
"I’m happy to have contributed to this league, to have done something important in my career, I’m proud, but you always will think you still could’ve done more, but tonight tells I’ve done things well."
by Bald Pollack on Oct 26, 2010 9:45 AM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
I’ll keep settin’ ‘em up, you keep knockin’ ’em down.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
I’ll bid 5.75.
Life With Spidey -- a blog about sports, travel, work, family and fun.
Representing Caps fandom in the Gateway to the West.
Ok, kiddies, gather round. Uncle Peerless is going to tell you a horror story. Last June, when the Texas Stars stepped onto the ice at Giant Center for Game 6 of the Calder Cup finals, this is the defense they had to face:
John Carlson
Karl Alzner
Patrick McNeill
Bryan Helmer
Greg Amadio
Patrick Wellar
Tomorrow night, when the Caps face the Hurricanes, they will send out this defense…
John Carlson
Karl Alzner
Brian Fahey
John Erskine
Tyler Sloan
Jeff Schultz
Is the latter better than the former? Yeah, but not so much that you’d be bragging about it.
If you've read this far...seek help.
by ThePeerless on Oct 26, 2010 12:13 PM EDT up reply actions 7 recs
And Michal Neuvirth in goal. Pitched a shutout, yes he did, even when the team deserted him in the third.
You perhaps knew me better as "Your Nation's Capital." Same great commentary, now with 100% more transparency!
by EmilyB on Oct 26, 2010 12:19 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Now the team deserts him the 1st. COMPLETELY different from the AHL lineup.
Human existence being an hallucination containing in itself the secondary hallucinations of day and night (the latter an insanitary condition of the atmosphere due to accretions of black air) it ill becomes any man of sense to be concerned at the illusory approach of the supreme hallucination known as death.
Zing!
You perhaps knew me better as "Your Nation's Capital." Same great commentary, now with 100% more transparency!
Does that mean that Patrick McNeill + Bryan Helmer + Greg Amadio + Patrick Wellar are better than Schultz + Fahey + Sloan + Erskine?
Rocking the Red since 1975
If the Devils can dress only 9 forwards, then surely we can play with only 5.25 defencemen!
/do not take seriously.
"I am ready for his provocations"
twitter
by PaintDrinkingPete on Oct 26, 2010 9:53 AM EDT up reply actions
Poti and someone else, apparently. Guessing Green.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
So PP specialist on Saturday wasn’t such a good idea after all?
Possibly just trip insurance?
"It's always good to have vikings."
No, not really. To add Fahey, they have to make a roster move – put someone on IR, or send Matty P back down.
I don’t think they’re sending Matty down to make room for Fahey as an insurance D.
/unless they are.
You perhaps knew me better as "Your Nation's Capital." Same great commentary, now with 100% more transparency!
Beagle’s demotion doesn’t offset?
Life With Spidey -- a blog about sports, travel, work, family and fun.
Representing Caps fandom in the Gateway to the West.
But that assumes Bradley stays on IR, right? If he comes off, then we need to make another move?
Life With Spidey -- a blog about sports, travel, work, family and fun.
Representing Caps fandom in the Gateway to the West.
Forgot about Beags. Sorry, Jay!
You perhaps knew me better as "Your Nation's Capital." Same great commentary, now with 100% more transparency!
Trust me, it happens.
I poured spot remover on my dog. Now he's gone.
by Rather Bengt on Oct 26, 2010 10:18 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, well, didn’t someone have to go on IR Saturday to make room for the three callups? We were never told who it was. were we? The only one we knew for certain was on IR was Bradley. I assume Varlamov went on IR to make room for Sabourin, since we know he’s out for a week. That’s two spots for three players.
"It's always good to have vikings."
We’re eight games in, and the Caps have already used eight defensemen. Only four have played in all eight games, and one of those (Carlson) probably should have sat for one or more of them.
If you've read this far...seek help.
by ThePeerless on Oct 26, 2010 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions
You just want to brag on Lindback. Yeah, he’s alright.
You perhaps knew me better as "Your Nation's Capital." Same great commentary, now with 100% more transparency!
Ha. 5 games is much too small a sample size to brag on the Giant.
by Chris Burton on Oct 26, 2010 9:50 AM EDT up reply actions
Especially if he can’t stop a team over 60 minutes.
"I’m happy to have contributed to this league, to have done something important in my career, I’m proud, but you always will think you still could’ve done more, but tonight tells I’ve done things well."
by Bald Pollack on Oct 26, 2010 9:53 AM EDT up reply actions
Including or excluding Finns?
Life With Spidey -- a blog about sports, travel, work, family and fun.
Representing Caps fandom in the Gateway to the West.
In no particular order:
Luongo, Vokoun, Lundqvist, Hiller, Miller.
You could talk me into Bryz or Halak if he continues to play this way.
"Essentially, all models are wrong, but some are useful" George E.P. Box
by Knee high to a duck on Oct 26, 2010 9:53 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Just wondering KHTAD, is Kiprusoff poor statistically or do I just always overrate in him in my mind?
I poured spot remover on my dog. Now he's gone.
by Rather Bengt on Oct 26, 2010 10:17 AM EDT up reply actions
Kipper had a huge bounce-back season last year, but prior to that it looked like he was on the decline in a big way. His previous five season SV%:
.933
.923
.917
.906
.903
I still think his best years are behind him.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
Thanks JP…just wondered.
I poured spot remover on my dog. Now he's gone.
by Rather Bengt on Oct 26, 2010 10:28 AM EDT up reply actions
Hiller? That’s a fantasy-homer pick, or perhaps wishful thinking.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
We’ll see after this year. He has no defense whatsoever in front of him and he’s either going to show that he can carry a team or make Toskala’s GAA look superb. They’re even worse off with D than the Caps so there is at least some schadenfreude out of it.
Human existence being an hallucination containing in itself the secondary hallucinations of day and night (the latter an insanitary condition of the atmosphere due to accretions of black air) it ill becomes any man of sense to be concerned at the illusory approach of the supreme hallucination known as death.
Nah, that’s grounded in ES SV%, which looks like the least luck-driven part of goalie stats. I went after Hiller for a reason — I think he’s an elite goalie behind a very poor team.
"Essentially, all models are wrong, but some are useful" George E.P. Box
by Knee high to a duck on Oct 26, 2010 2:57 PM EDT up reply actions
I’d go
1) Vokoun
1A) Miller
2-28) The Field
If you've read this far...seek help.
by ThePeerless on Oct 26, 2010 12:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Mike Smith and Mike Smith.
I poured spot remover on my dog. Now he's gone.
by Rather Bengt on Oct 26, 2010 12:17 PM EDT up reply actions
He’s done reasonably well for my fantasy team. If you count him twice, can I count him twice?
Life With Spidey -- a blog about sports, travel, work, family and fun.
Representing Caps fandom in the Gateway to the West.
Feel free. You can have him lol.
I poured spot remover on my dog. Now he's gone.
by Rather Bengt on Oct 26, 2010 12:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Niemi is fucking dead to me. That guy can eat a gigantic bowl of porcupine, and then another.
I eat two porcupines in the morning, I eat two porcupines at night. I eat two porcupines before gametime, it makes me play like shite.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
by Rob Parker on Oct 26, 2010 12:20 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Nice.
"Now wait a minute. This is just purely a social call. You know, just two adults getting a stew on, man."
by The Ghost of Bebop on Oct 26, 2010 12:22 PM EDT up reply actions
F&B I would love to see your “Fucking Dead to Me” list.
I poured spot remover on my dog. Now he's gone.
by Rather Bengt on Oct 26, 2010 12:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Probably quite a long list. I haven’t really put it to paper, yet.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
Awesome.
"Do you see my fist? It was fists like these that built quaint Canadian cities out of the harsh Canadian wilderness, etc. etc."
Not in Seattle anymore.
by SeattleCapsFan on Oct 26, 2010 3:24 PM EDT up reply actions
It makes me a very prickly player to play against…
If you've read this far...seek help.
by ThePeerless on Oct 26, 2010 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Mine were the same as yours.
The Artist Formerly Known as CP2Devil.
Links guy at Five For Howling.
by Carl Putnam on Oct 26, 2010 10:12 AM EDT up reply actions
Hey, so maybe I’m not off my rocker! ;)
by Chris Burton on Oct 26, 2010 10:18 AM EDT up reply actions
It’s so early you can make arguments about 50 ways. You’ve got guys who are playing well above and below their historical numbers due to low number of starts at this point. Plus, its hard to judge team play at this point as well.
The Artist Formerly Known as CP2Devil.
Links guy at Five For Howling.
by Carl Putnam on Oct 26, 2010 10:32 AM EDT up reply actions
Your callsigns are now way to similar. For a second here I thought you were having a conversation with yourself.
"Do you see my fist? It was fists like these that built quaint Canadian cities out of the harsh Canadian wilderness, etc. etc."
Not in Seattle anymore.
by SeattleCapsFan on Oct 26, 2010 11:04 AM EDT up reply actions
It could be worse. We could both find a way to work our passion for City into our sigs.
The Artist Formerly Known as CP2Devil.
Links guy at Five For Howling.
by Carl Putnam on Oct 26, 2010 11:12 AM EDT up reply actions
In his tweets.
At this juncture, here’s how I’d rank NHL goalies. 1) Tomas Vokoun, 2) Ryan Miller, 3) Ilya Bryzgalov, 4) Pekka Rinne, 5) Jaroslav Halak.
Honorable mentions: Henrik Lundqvist, Jonas Hiller.
The Artist Formerly Known as CP2Devil.
Links guy at Five For Howling.
by Carl Putnam on Oct 26, 2010 12:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Fuck Twitter.
'Cause the end of what it was is what it is right now...
by D'ohboy on Oct 26, 2010 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Lundqvist, Vokun, Halak (I don’t know if he can keep it up, but he’s been really great this year), Miller, and … Quick, maybe.
Interesting. You aren’t so high on Luongo? Aren’t you required to cherish him as a national treasure, or something?
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
I’m US born and bred, my friend. I live in Chicago and was born and raised just outside of Philadelphia.
I like Luongo, but I don’t know if he’s ever been able to carry his team on his shoulders like the best goaltenders have done. Bryzgalov (who I should’ve mentioned) did that with his team last year; Miller, too. Brodeur has made a career out of it.
To me, if I’m an opposing team in the playoffs, Luongo doesn’t scare me.
No particular order: Vokoun, Hiller, Ward, Bryzgalov and Miller
Human existence being an hallucination containing in itself the secondary hallucinations of day and night (the latter an insanitary condition of the atmosphere due to accretions of black air) it ill becomes any man of sense to be concerned at the illusory approach of the supreme hallucination known as death.
I didn’t realize back up goalies were in the mix.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
Nice. I’m guessing Tukka finds that comment a little less humorous.
The Artist Formerly Known as CP2Devil.
Links guy at Five For Howling.
by Carl Putnam on Oct 26, 2010 12:16 PM EDT up reply actions
I wonder how RAL find it.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
You mean Louie? I doubt he’s too worried. He’s a vet and no way Schneider keeps up his current pace.
The Artist Formerly Known as CP2Devil.
Links guy at Five For Howling.
by Carl Putnam on Oct 26, 2010 12:22 PM EDT up reply actions
No I mean Red Army Line. He argued that Rask was the best goalie in the league just about a month ago.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
Oh. I must have missed that.
The Artist Formerly Known as CP2Devil.
Links guy at Five For Howling.
by Carl Putnam on Oct 26, 2010 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions
It kind of is his fault that he’s the backup. It’s not his fault that TT is playing out of his mind, but it is his fault that he has a 3.54 GAA and .994 SV%.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
It’s not his fault his GM gave out a 35+ contract worth over $5M to a guy they could have let walk and now have to play. (Not that he’s playing badly, mind you) He has started poorly but it wasn’t all that long ago he led the NHL in SV% and GAA…you know, like just last season.
The contract is irrelevant. The coach doesn’t “have to play” TT just because of the contract. Last year Rask out-performed TT and took the starter job. This year Rask hasn’t been good. You don’t have to get too clever and look at contracts and TT and all that. Just look at how Rask has played and you’ll see he doesn’t belong in the conversation. This is exactly what K_C and I were talking about when RAL hailed Rask as the next best thing.
Rask had a great year, like just last season. And Mason had a great season, like just the season before. And Raycroft had a great season. And Jim Carey. And on and on and on. One great season shouldn’t sell anyone on any particular goalie.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
It turns out Boston has a history with one-and-done goalies.
Me? I’m just glad I was able to pick up Thomas as a late-round pick in my fantasy draft.
He’s played 2 games!
So wait, Rask is just an unacceptable choice…but Bryz gets love for basically a solitary good season, Quick has essentially done nothing, Halak has had one above avg season, and Cam Ward has broken .920 once…in 6 games this year.
But RASK, now that’s an outlandish statement.
but Bryz gets love for basically a solitary good season
Let Bryz and Snoop Dogg set you right my fine Rinker
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pRFEiyqWqp4
I poured spot remover on my dog. Now he's gone.
by Rather Bengt on Oct 26, 2010 2:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Well I’ve been pretty vocal that I think Ward is basically just-above-average and last year I said it was too soon to jump on the Quick bandwagon. Bryz has been good for longer. Last year was his Vezina nomination year but he has been real good in each of his years in PHX (great in two of them) and was always solid for ANA (and was the starting goalie for the last part of the regular season and the first round of the playoffs when they won the Cup).
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
Bryzgalov has played 214 regular season NHL games, and has 3 seasons with 55+ GP. He also has two seasons as a starter with a .920+ SV% and has been carrying his team for 3 straight seasons.
Rask has 52 career GP, all behind a stifling defensive system, and has never started half of his team’s games in a season. To compare the resumes of Bryzgalov and Rask as equally thin is, in fact, outlandish.
I won’t defend the other guys since I don’t think they are in the top 5 either, but I’ll just say that they all have at least twice as much experience as Rask, and with the exception of Halak have been solid 60+ game starters for their teams.
Release the Mackan!
by Killer_Carlson on Oct 26, 2010 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
This is carrying your team? 2008-09 26-31-6 .906/2.98…I guess Theo was carrying the Caps last year too. He’s had two very good seasons with a pretty crappy one in between. That’s it…
So if you start 60+ games and do it nice and mediocre…that’s ok, ya know, cause you have “experience”? Calling Mr. Fleury…please pick up the white courtesy phone.
Did you happen to look at the rest of the PHX 2008-09 team? Or the mess surrounding them? You’re also cherrypicking the worst season and ignoring the rest of the argument.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
I’m not even arguing against Bryz’s inclusion in the list really, just the one against Rask.
What am I supposed to do cherrypick the other 2 good ones? He’s only got 3 full seasons under his belt. Unless you would like to include the 2 partial seasons that add up to 58 games right after the lockout…but that average of .907/2.50 doesn’t really paint an elite picture either.
You could just recognize the rest of the differences K_C laid out. Equating Bryz’s career with Rask’s is just inaccurate, and that’s the point. Bryz has 3 seasons with more starts than Rask has in his entire career.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
Equating Bryz’s career with Rask’s is just inaccurate
Good point. But either way we aren’t talking about guys with the career longevity of Roy, Brodeur, Luongo, or Vokoun to get a “proven track record”.
Was that even the argument?
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
Rask had a great year, like just last season. And Mason had a great season, like just the season before. And Raycroft had a great season. And Jim Carey. And on and on and on. One great season shouldn’t sell anyone on any particular goalie.
So one great year doesn’t cut it…but 2 for Bryz…that’s the line?
Sheesh. 3 years as a proven starter, with two of them great, is significantly more impressive than one very good season in a platoon. Then you factor in the teams, etc.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
What am I supposed to do cherrypick the other 2 good ones?
No, you are supposed to consider all three seasons together. He has three seasons as clear #1 starter, and in 2 of them he put up great numbers behind an average (at best) team. Sounds pretty damn good to me. A lot better than one season of great numbers as a split-starter behind a dominant defensive team (in a much easier division and conference at that).
Release the Mackan!
by Killer_Carlson on Oct 26, 2010 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Way to pick out the one sub-par year out of 3 and completely ignore the context. Bryz didn’t carry his team the past 3 years because of his stats, he carried his team because he has a very talent thin roster in front of him and he is what kept them competitive.
I believe I said those other guys didn’t belong in the conversation, but yes, experience does matter for goalies. Showing that you can handle the rigors of being a starting goalie is very important even if you aren’t a world beater. On the flip side, one season of stats means almost nothing for a goalie, especially when it isn’t even a full season as a starter. Paging Jim Carrey…oh he’s not around? Paging Andrew Raycroft…him too? Paging Steve Mason? Hmm, how about Cristobal Huet? Maybe Dan Ellis? No, wait, Vesa Toskala! He put up a .930 one year!
Release the Mackan!
by Killer_Carlson on Oct 26, 2010 3:28 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
We are talking about RIGHT NOW (09-10, not the 7 games this year), right? I mean RIGHT NOW, so if you have a really great year this year then that does make you one of the 5 best goalies. Much like when you win the Cup, RIGHT NOW, that makes you the best team whether you blow for the next 20 years or not. The question wasn’t the best 5 goalies of the last 5 years, or the 5 goalies who “carry their team the most” it was who is the best RIGHT NOW.
And to that I still wonder why a backup is on the list.
The guy is Peter Schumpmaker. Lord knows what a schump is, but you can bet your bippy his ancestors made them. What he's doing is far worse than crafting fine schumps.
by Steckel Me Elmo on Oct 26, 2010 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m not exactly how that changes the dynamic. For one, Rask is not, RIGHT NOW, the best goalie on his team, so unless TT is also on the list Rask can’t be on there. And the overarching point is that you can’t read too much into one good (or great) season from a goalie. Longevity matters, even when talking about RIGHT NOW.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
Longevity matters, even when talking about RIGHT NOW.
I’d rather win RIGHT NOW. But that turns in to the old “…would you rather…” debate.
Ok, but under either analysis Rask loses.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
by Rob Parker on Oct 26, 2010 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I don’t know why that should be the salient analysis. I thought that was clear. You’re just picking one year that Rask happened to be very good in. He isn’t following that up so far, and LOTS of goalies have had a great season and then fallen off. There’s no reason to think that the 2009-10 Rask is the real Rask. And Bryz’s 09-10 season was better.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
by Rob Parker on Oct 26, 2010 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
And Varlamov started off last season better than Rask did (on a much worse defensive team). Does that make him a top 5 goalie when healthy?
Yup. Because apparently we can just ignore what we want to ignore. So I’m gonna ignore that Varly can’t stay healthy.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
by Rob Parker on Oct 26, 2010 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
09-10 is LAST YEAR, not RIGHT NOW. And FTR, I thought Bryzgalov was better than Rask last year as well. I didn’t even think Rask was the best rookie goalie last year much less a top 5 goalie.
Release the Mackan!
by Killer_Carlson on Oct 26, 2010 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions
No, we should look at the full picture.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
by Rob Parker on Oct 26, 2010 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Are you purposely being obtuse? You should use the whole body of work for each goalie.
But use any metric you want, career performance, last year’s performance, this year’s performance, I don’t care. No matter which you use I think Bryzgalov comes out on top.
Release the Mackan!
by Killer_Carlson on Oct 26, 2010 3:46 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
And that’s fine…I’m not the one who’s getting all upset b/c someone didn’t think what I thought.
I like Tuukka Rask, I think he’s a very good goaltender. I also think Ilya Bryzgalov is a very good goaltender.
I apologize that my reasoning for that isn’t your reasoning.
I think it’s more that your reasoning isn’t reasoning.
Eat, drink, and be merry! And then drink some more.
by SmallZ827 on Oct 26, 2010 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Hmm, then your argument is considerably weaker since RIGHT NOW (how does RIGHT NOW refer to the season that ended 6 months ago and not the current season?) Rask is a backup with terrible numbers and Bryzgalov is posting a .925 SV%.
And given how volatile goalies can be, one good season as a backup means very little to me when I am deciding who the best goalie is RIGHT NOW.
Release the Mackan!
by Killer_Carlson on Oct 26, 2010 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Our argument isn’t limited to this season. Reading comprehension fail.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
by Rob Parker on Oct 26, 2010 3:46 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
And with goalies you can’t make a good argument with only one season of work. Hence my discussion of experience and my list of mediocre goalies with one year of awesome stats. What aren’t you getting about this?
Release the Mackan!
by Killer_Carlson on Oct 26, 2010 3:48 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
What aren’t you getting about this?
Why you’re getting so angry about me not agreeing with your opinion…it’s okay…we can do that here.
Who’s angry?
Know what else we do here? Provide reasoning for our arguments and counter the reasoning posed by those who disagree. I’m still waiting for some counter argument as to why we should put a ton of weight into 39 starts by Rask despite all of the arguments I have made regarding why one season is unreliable as an evaluation tool for goalies.
Release the Mackan!
by Killer_Carlson on Oct 26, 2010 3:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Because those 39 starts were great. And I’m not asking you to put any weight into it…I could give a shit who you think the best goalies are…I was just trying to defend my choice, like you are Bryz. You discount those 39 starts, I don’t. You think Bryz is a great goalie and, ironically, I do too. Not sure why all the vitriol over a top 5 list.
And I’m asking you to defend your choice by explaining why you don’t discount 39 starts after I explained why I do. That’s the essence of debate. No vitriol here, just disagreement.
Release the Mackan!
by Killer_Carlson on Oct 26, 2010 4:05 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m not the one who’s getting all upset b/c someone didn’t think what I thought.
and this
Why you’re getting so angry about me not agreeing with your opinion
are both incredibly unfair to the people you are arguing with. I just read this whole thing and they are not upset about whether or not you agree or that you think something different, they are getting frustrated at how you have failed to respond to points they are making or are shifting the grounds of argument when something you’ve relied on gets shot down.
It’s not a huge deal, but I’ve seen a lot of good discussions get utterly befouled when folks start claiming people are mad they don’t agree or outlawing their opinion or whathaveyou..
"This guy is an android. He's not human....Oh my goodness."
by Sam DC on Oct 26, 2010 5:24 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
Dan Ellis once led the NHL in SV%
Release the Mackan!
by Killer_Carlson on Oct 26, 2010 2:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Lundqvist/Vokoun
Miller
The Bryz
Rask
I poured spot remover on my dog. Now he's gone.
by Rather Bengt on Oct 26, 2010 10:59 AM EDT up reply actions
1) Brent Johnson
2-5) Everyone else
by Link_Gaetz on Oct 26, 2010 11:31 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Miller, Vokoun, Luongo, Lundqvist and Bryzgalov
Release the Mackan!
by Killer_Carlson on Oct 26, 2010 12:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Dylan, Dylan, Dylan, Dylan, and Dylan
He spits hot fire.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
by Rob Parker on Oct 26, 2010 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
No love for Tim Thomas?
Live every week like its Matt Bradley week.
by CarltonBanks on Oct 26, 2010 1:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Not at $5 million per. If the Caps had signed him to that contract and had Tukka Rask waiting in the wings we’d all be ripshit.
But we are not talking about the bang for buck ratio, just performance, and I think Thomas is definatly a top 5 goalie today.
Live every week like its Matt Bradley week.
by CarltonBanks on Oct 26, 2010 4:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh God
Corey and Katie both tweeting that Nycholat is also at Kettler.
Life With Spidey -- a blog about sports, travel, work, family and fun.
Representing Caps fandom in the Gateway to the West.
Now it’s JUST like the trip to Calgary from two years ago.
"Semin had two goals this year, Perreault comes in and he gets three."
Nine minute power play?
Life With Spidey -- a blog about sports, travel, work, family and fun.
Representing Caps fandom in the Gateway to the West.
With no goals? Probably, if it happens.
"I am ready for his provocations"
twitter
by PaintDrinkingPete on Oct 26, 2010 10:27 AM EDT up reply actions
Time for our forwards to start earning those Selkes.
You perhaps knew me better as "Your Nation's Capital." Same great commentary, now with 100% more transparency!
Glass half-full kind of person, I see?
I’m definitely not panicking about the team’s lack of goal scoring yet, although lack of production on the PP is concerning, as a carryover from the Montreal series.
And for anyone who doesn’t remember (although I’m sure most here do), the Caps did have a 9 min PP against the Calgary the last time we visited there…and failed to score on it.
"I am ready for his provocations"
twitter
by PaintDrinkingPete on Oct 26, 2010 10:41 AM EDT up reply actions
I heard this guy Souray down in Hershey has some NHL experience. hehe ;)
I poured spot remover on my dog. Now he's gone.
by Rather Bengt on Oct 26, 2010 10:29 AM EDT up reply actions
Funny enough, per Leone
Souray sidelined by broken hand. Probably out 2 weeks.
"I’m happy to have contributed to this league, to have done something important in my career, I’m proud, but you always will think you still could’ve done more, but tonight tells I’ve done things well."
by Bald Pollack on Oct 26, 2010 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Hopefully he didn’t do it by punching someone, this time.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
Seriously? He’s fighting in the AHL? Wow. What an idiot.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
I’m not the biggest fan of fighting but from all reports I got from the game, Clackson was taking liberties, and Rinaldo and others were playing a typical Flyers/Phantoms game, and Souray took issue with that so I’d say at least it was a fight related to the game and not something staged. Given his situation, I actually give him credit in that situation for fighting more than I would most of the time.
by sk84fun_dc on Oct 26, 2010 2:01 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Yeah, I can see giving him credit since he could have just checked out, but doesn’t HER carry a couple tough guys just for this purpose? WTF were those guys doing? Good on Souray, but so dumb. That’s not going to get him back to the NHL.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
I didn’t see the game so I don’t know how the fight developed on that shift, but I believe Walton posted some video/audio if someone wants to track it down.
Since you asked, Rechlicz is sidelined due to a mashed up face from a fight.
Grant McNeill dressed for that game; Bruess had a fight later in the game with Rinaldo. And Rome seconds later fought Marshall (and per Leone’s update today, Rome missed practice today with an upper body injury.)
Walton just sent it via twitter to Bob McKensie: Fight starts at the 40 sec mark
"I would feed them lefts until I was pretty much tired of doing it." - Alan May, JRR, 10.16.2010
Holy crap, savage beatdown is right. I wonder what Clackson did to draw that ire.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
He said “What? Afraid you’re gonna break your hand, you gutles…ow ow ow ow ow”
You perhaps knew me better as "Your Nation's Capital." Same great commentary, now with 100% more transparency!
by EmilyB on Oct 26, 2010 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
That’s a little rough. I mean, any time he’s hitting another man it’s a step in the right direction for him, no?
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
by J.P. on Oct 26, 2010 3:12 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Wow. Smakedown if ever there was one.
"Essentially, all models are wrong, but some are useful" George E.P. Box
by Knee high to a duck on Oct 26, 2010 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t know if I should laugh or cry.
Pledge Drive 2010-2011: SO KIDS CAN!! Help build a playground
I didn’t know Iginla was demoted to the AHL.
I poured spot remover on my dog. Now he's gone.
by Rather Bengt on Oct 26, 2010 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions
The irony is not lost, but with his contract we weren’t calling him up in the next two weeks anyway, at least that’s my guess.
He fought. From Saturday, at about the one-minute mark. Though word is Clackson was askin’ for it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kTPVsnVHM_k
He did not play on Sunday.
You perhaps knew me better as "Your Nation's Capital." Same great commentary, now with 100% more transparency!
Caps can’t call him up. He’s still Edmonton’s property when it comes to the NHL.
Pledge Drive 2010-2011: SO KIDS CAN!! Help build a playground
We can’t do anything other than trade for him, but then he’d have to be put on re-entry waivers and we’d lose him to some other team looking to grab the guy at half price.
I think EDM has to put him through re-entry waivers before even trading him.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
I’m reasonably sure they don’t, although no sane team would take him any other way. It’s totally academic either way.
just so I’m clear, how many years are left on the contract?
Pledge Drive 2010-2011: SO KIDS CAN!! Help build a playground
don’t know. one of our CBA experts will need to weigh in. All I know is that, right now, the Caps don’t have any claim to Souray.
Pledge Drive 2010-2011: SO KIDS CAN!! Help build a playground
I imagine the Caps would have to indicate interest in Souray, the Oilers then decide that losing him for half price is better than paying in full and place him on re-entry waivers, the Caps would make a claim, getting him for half the cap hit if their claim wins.
This sig is brought to you by... Frungy, The Sport of Kings!
On behalf of all of us Caps fans, thank you, Sheldon, for removing any desperate temptation GMGM might have felt this week…
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
by J.P. on Oct 26, 2010 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Anything to lend a hand JP.
I poured spot remover on my dog. Now he's gone.
by Rather Bengt on Oct 26, 2010 3:09 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
What, Dusty Stevenson wasn’t available? Are there direct flights from Novokuznetsk to Raleigh or would Orlov have to change flights at Hartsfield?
You perhaps knew me better as "Your Nation's Capital." Same great commentary, now with 100% more transparency!
Probably Moscow, Atlanta, Raleigh or Moscow, Dulles, Raleigh.
If he left now . . . .
Life With Spidey -- a blog about sports, travel, work, family and fun.
Representing Caps fandom in the Gateway to the West.
frankly, I’m fine with this if it spares us another Willis Reed moment from 52—that was a joke. A dangerous joke.
"I don't care about winning the division or winning the President's Trophy. I just care about getting to the playoffs." --GMGM
by bigonetimer on Oct 26, 2010 10:32 AM EDT up reply actions
I think Reed only scored like 4 points that entire game, though. It was merely his presence that rattled the Lakers.
So maybe just sitting Green on the bench will do their opponents in.
Just too much exposure for that shoulder, for my taste. I mean, how does that conversation go?
BB: “How’re feelin, kid?”
52: “Fine, but Neuvy’s got a harder slapper than I do right now, coach.”
BB: “Sounds good. We’ll play you primo select PP minutes and you just skate around. Don’t get hit.”
52: Laces ’em up. “Shit, if I could just score with my feet…”
"I don't care about winning the division or winning the President's Trophy. I just care about getting to the playoffs." --GMGM
by bigonetimer on Oct 26, 2010 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Maybe Nycholat’s here just to fill in as a D in practice until Alzner gets back?
[putting my head securely back in the sand now]
"I would feed them lefts until I was pretty much tired of doing it." - Alan May, JRR, 10.16.2010
He doesn’t even have a contract (at this time) to play with the Caps…so I guess it’s possible*
*doubtful
"I am ready for his provocations"
twitter
by PaintDrinkingPete on Oct 26, 2010 10:35 AM EDT up reply actions
According to Corey and Katie, a team official says Nycholat won’t be going on the trip and is just there for practice.
LET'S GO CAPS!!!
Speaking of practice, per Corey
Marcus Johansson has left practice early for the #Caps.
"I’m happy to have contributed to this league, to have done something important in my career, I’m proud, but you always will think you still could’ve done more, but tonight tells I’ve done things well."
by Bald Pollack on Oct 26, 2010 10:52 AM EDT up reply actions
If this was really about calling up a player for the day and not about considering signing Nycholat to a contract, I assume they would have called up Miskovic.
Re. Nycholat. The issues with depth on D with the 8-10 in Hershey was obvious as others have noted and written about. Obvious enough that I investigated what would happen if the Capitals decided the best option was signing Nycholat to a contract.
Nycholat is on an AHL-only contract at this time. If at some point during the season he was signed to an NHL contract, his situation may not be the same as Helmer’s and Laing’s in previous seasons. If Nycholat spent more than 80 NHL games on an NHL roster in the last 2 seasons (by my count he did,) he’d have to clear re-entry waivers if his AHL only contract is for more than $105,000 and he later signs an NHL deal with the affiliated NHL team. So the question is whether or not he makes more than $105,000 on his Hershey contract.
That’s it… they don’t have enough bodies on the blue line to practice. Nycholat is like a “taxi squad” player playing for the scout team.
If you've read this far...seek help.
by ThePeerless on Oct 26, 2010 12:27 PM EDT up reply actions
From Corey
Dean Evason has left the ice early and Troy Mann has been called up from Hershey
I poured spot remover on my dog. Now he's gone.
by Rather Bengt on Oct 26, 2010 11:06 AM EDT reply actions 9 recs
Sweet, now even our coaches are injured.
Human existence being an hallucination containing in itself the secondary hallucinations of day and night (the latter an insanitary condition of the atmosphere due to accretions of black air) it ill becomes any man of sense to be concerned at the illusory approach of the supreme hallucination known as death.
Slapshot day-to-day with a lower body; Coco on his way up.
"I would feed them lefts until I was pretty much tired of doing it." - Alan May, JRR, 10.16.2010
by bagace on Oct 26, 2010 11:20 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Reminds me of when the Mariner Moose ran over Coco Crisp with an ATV.
Human existence being an hallucination containing in itself the secondary hallucinations of day and night (the latter an insanitary condition of the atmosphere due to accretions of black air) it ill becomes any man of sense to be concerned at the illusory approach of the supreme hallucination known as death.
What’s even worse:
BB taken to ER after bizarre garden salad accident.
Got my user name back from the dingo...
John Walton is doing play by play.
Now, fi they could just call up the Giant Center hot dogs to replace whatever it is they’re selling at VC
If you've read this far...seek help.
by ThePeerless on Oct 26, 2010 12:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Was it mid season 07-08 when it seemed that half the team was down with the flu/injuries for a two or three week stretch? This reminds me of that. Silver lining, none of the injuries “seem” long term although I am concerned about how well Green’s shoulder will hold up…and of course Varly’s groin.
Just trying to capture the spirit of the thing...
Nov-Dec 08 it seemed like half the team was out. That’s when Helmer got called up. I think we were celebrating if the team made it through a game without losing yet another guy to injury.
Pledge Drive 2010-2011: SO KIDS CAN!! Help build a playground
You’re right on that count.
We had lost Semin just before the infamous road trip to the West Coast, the one that I refer to as the Road Trip from Hell. We lost Green, Fedorov, Poti, Schultz, Erskine, among others. Believe Shaone Morrisonn was already out.
We lost defensemen like crazy during the Minnesota Wild game.
Rocking the Red since 1975
Might have been 08-09. The difference in that (I think) being that the injuries weren’t all completely simultaneous, nor was the dropoff from starter to callup too severe.
"I’m happy to have contributed to this league, to have done something important in my career, I’m proud, but you always will think you still could’ve done more, but tonight tells I’ve done things well."
by Bald Pollack on Oct 26, 2010 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions
Pillaging the Bruins?
So they need to open up some cap space soon, anyone we want?
Hunwick, while inconsistent, can’t be worse than what we have. Given the lack of leverage BOS has, I think it’s worth making a play at him. Doesn’t sound like they want Stuart, but I’m not sure how much leverage or control they have. I’d take Stuart if they are moving him. They’ll most likely have to move at least one desirable player. Anyone that takes Ryder is a dick.
It would be hysterical if Wheeler went back to PHX.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
I’d take a chance on any of Boychuk, Mark Stuart or Hunwick. Just get SOMEONE in here who’s NHL calibur.
Gotta love it when a team puts themselves in cap trouble by signing a luxury goalie to the second biggest contract on the team.
They are short people on the blueline right now, so I doubt they trade a D-man.
The Artist Formerly Known as CP2Devil.
Links guy at Five For Howling.
by Carl Putnam on Oct 26, 2010 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, it just depends how long Boychuk is on the IR and whether or not they can get anyone to take an F. Their Fs are far less appealing than their D.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
Which is funny since some folks around here were complaining about their D prior to the season.
The Artist Formerly Known as CP2Devil.
Links guy at Five For Howling.
by Carl Putnam on Oct 26, 2010 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m just talking about the people that might be moved, obviously there are Fs that I’d love, but those guys aren’t going anywhere. I think their D is top heavy, but even their bottom guys are better than ours. And maybe watching them pummel us twice in a row changed some opinions.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
Certainly their D are much more attractive in that their contracts match their play. While Ryder’s contract certainly is the least appealing.
The Artist Formerly Known as CP2Devil.
Links guy at Five For Howling.
by Carl Putnam on Oct 26, 2010 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions
obviously there are Fs that I’d love
David Krecji, step right up for 2C.
A guy can dream.
I poured spot remover on my dog. Now he's gone.
by Rather Bengt on Oct 26, 2010 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Flash for Krecji sounds legit. Both 20 goal scorers, both Czechs and it’ll help out Boston’s salary cap issues.
It ain’t dreaming, it’s a reality……………………………………………………….
Human existence being an hallucination containing in itself the secondary hallucinations of day and night (the latter an insanitary condition of the atmosphere due to accretions of black air) it ill becomes any man of sense to be concerned at the illusory approach of the supreme hallucination known as death.
If you disregard the fact that Krecji is two years younger and in my opinion a helluva lot better than Flash.
And when I say “you” I am hoping your name is Peter Chiarelli.
I poured spot remover on my dog. Now he's gone.
by Rather Bengt on Oct 26, 2010 1:35 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
No need for “in my opinion.” That is objective fact.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
by Rob Parker on Oct 26, 2010 1:42 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
You’re forgetting that last year Flash was +9, while Krecji was an irresponsible +8. And when I say “you” I also mean Chiarelli.
It’s one of the easiest decisions a GM could make to ship off Krecji for Flash.
Human existence being an hallucination containing in itself the secondary hallucinations of day and night (the latter an insanitary condition of the atmosphere due to accretions of black air) it ill becomes any man of sense to be concerned at the illusory approach of the supreme hallucination known as death.
Yeah, I just hope they don’t wiggle out of it. If/when Salvador’s dome gets right I wouldn’t mind trying to get him either. I just don’t think either of those teams is going to be itching to help us out.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
Any interest in a 26 year old German Olympian who’s just slightly not good enough to crack the top 6 of one of the league’s best defenses?
by Chris Burton on Oct 26, 2010 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Any D that is better than Sloskine is good in my book. Who you selling?
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
Uwe Krupp Jr?
I poured spot remover on my dog. Now he's gone.
by Rather Bengt on Oct 26, 2010 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Guaranteed better than Sloskine. He’s replaced Suter the last 3(?) games and done very well. Problem is, he’s not good enough to be in our top 6 permanently and younger, cheaper players like Blum, Ellis, and Josi are going to chase him out of the 7D spot in a hurry. I think he’d be an excellent 4D on a shallow defensive team, but I am biased. Alex Sulzer:
Sulzer is a solid defenseman, who can combine physical presence on the ice with some good offensive skills. He is a very good skater with a remarkable stamina. His fine positional play and a strong shot from the blue line are making him a good all around defender. Furthermore Sulzer is playing an effective game in the corners and in front of the net. Sulzer is a very compact defender with lots of strength and less weaknesses. However Sulzer should work on his endurance in the next season, to open his way to the NHL.
by Chris Burton on Oct 26, 2010 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions
I’d take him, but I don’t love adding another rookie to our blueline. It’s a lot to hope both Carlznerson are ready by the playoffs, it’s just obscene to believe you can have 1/2 your D corps be rookies come playoff time.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
Using the term ‘rookie’ is kinda like terming Varlamov a rookie. He has 25 NHL games, 145 AHL games, and hundreds (300+) of German league/Worlds/Olympic games.
Just saying, he could be had for a 5th round pick. Worth taking a flyer on from what I’ve seen.
by Chris Burton on Oct 26, 2010 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions
I still think he’s more of a rookie than Varlamov. And I’d still give up a 5th for him, but there’s a reason he’s 26 and still trying to crack the NHL. Deep or not, it’s not a good sign that he still hasn’t found a place to play. Hell, GMDP picked up Parent in the off-season. I’m not sure he does that if he thinks Sulzer was ready to make the jump full time. He’s close to the shit-or-get-off-the-pot moment, but he’s gotta be better than Sloan.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
Maybe so, but you have to be quite the player to crack a lineup of Weber, Suter, Hamhuis, Zanon, deVries, and Klein, then Bouillon/Franson, etc.
Parent (and subsequently O’Brien) were brought in to help replace Hamhuis’ minutes, not play where Sulzer would.
by Chris Burton on Oct 26, 2010 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions
But Parent sucks and O’Brien ain’t special. If Sulzer was ready to take minutes, wouldn’t he be more than an injury replacement?
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
I would’ve thought so, but that’s why I’m not a coach or executive. My guess is that the brass did not want too many inexperienced NHL D out there every night (Franson’s good for a few heart-stoppers a game), and so went after a vet to ease the loss of Hamhuis.
Heck, I’m ready to give up on Jon Blum after his awful training camp, take him instead :P.
by Chris Burton on Oct 26, 2010 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Ha. I’ll take Blum in a second, but he isn’t the solution this year.
I don’t know why GMDP would be afraid of youth. For one, that top pair is going to eat the tough minutes, and then there is plenty of experience behind them. SOB, experience or no, is good for a bunch of ridiculous mistakes.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
GMDP is afraid of youth because young players make him look older and he’s running out of hair dye.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
Hell, anyone on their lineup that isn’t Chara or Thomas. I’d wait till they can afford to give up Stuart or Hunwick. If a chance arose to get one of their 493 centers they have that could conceivably play the 2nd line here, I’d jump on that in a heartbeat.
Human existence being an hallucination containing in itself the secondary hallucinations of day and night (the latter an insanitary condition of the atmosphere due to accretions of black air) it ill becomes any man of sense to be concerned at the illusory approach of the supreme hallucination known as death.
Blake coming here would be amusing, but it makes little sense to me in some ways. Is he an upgrade over the wingers the Coyotes have right now on the top 3 lines? It seems like he fits a mold the Yotes already have.
The Artist Formerly Known as CP2Devil.
Links guy at Five For Howling.
by Carl Putnam on Oct 26, 2010 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t know enough about your lineup to really know how he’d fit. I just laugh at the history. Looks like Turris put together a couple nice games recently. Fluke or breakout?
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
Breakout. He’s looked great since Tippet put him in the lineup. He was creating scoring chances early on, but was a bit snakebit and linemates weren’t finishing either. He’s a big bigger now and his all around game is much better than it was 2 years ago when he was up with the big club.
The Artist Formerly Known as CP2Devil.
Links guy at Five For Howling.
by Carl Putnam on Oct 26, 2010 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Speaking of defensemen, on Empty Netters today (I know you all read it), they had a table showing points per game from d-men. The Penguins lead it with 3 PPG (obviously why Seth put it up), whereas the Caps are third worst at 1.13 PPG. Only the Devils and Flyers are worse.
This is not surprising since Green got off to a slow start, then was injured. The Caps averaged barely two points a game from defensemen last year WITH Green playing 75 games. This is not a defense that is going to put up a lot of points, even with Carlson thought of as a rookie who can score.
If you've read this far...seek help.
by ThePeerless on Oct 26, 2010 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions
I wonder why he chose to omit the leafs and Coyotes from the list.
The Artist Formerly Known as CP2Devil.
Links guy at Five For Howling.
by Carl Putnam on Oct 26, 2010 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions
That would make Leafs tied for third and the Coyotes seventh.
The Artist Formerly Known as CP2Devil.
Links guy at Five For Howling.
In case anyone missed it yesterday, Caleb Herbert was also named to the USA World Junior A Challenge roster. http://www.usahockey.com/Template_Usahockey.aspx?NAV=TU_04_01_05&id=294270
Someone Caps related post at PPP on blocked shots.
The Artist Formerly Known as CP2Devil.
Links guy at Five For Howling.
Anyone see the report that Phoenix is making Keith Yandle available? Talk amongst yourselves, I’ll just be over here drooling at the idea…
(Of course the report also says the Bruins have interest, which I don’t doubt…but I’m hoping/wishing/praying GMGM gets in there and offers something better.)
If anyone needs me, I'll be at Kettler.
They really should take one heck of a look if he’s available.
Human existence being an hallucination containing in itself the secondary hallucinations of day and night (the latter an insanitary condition of the atmosphere due to accretions of black air) it ill becomes any man of sense to be concerned at the illusory approach of the supreme hallucination known as death.
I saw some Boston fans wondering last night as a result of the reports about Chiarelli joining some of Boston’s scouts at some Phoenix games (during a time when Boston has a break and with the Boston cap situation.)
The only other rumor I saw was a retweet by Justin Bourne but have no idea who that person is and the account doesn’t show tweets for me, it says user does not exist.
Given his cap hit and his RFA status at the end of the season, the only way I see GM Don Maloney trading Yandle is in a value for value hockey trade and if they see no possibility of re-signing RFA to be Yandle.
I saw that Bourne tweet – he was going for Jimmy Murphy, a Boston reporter (@MurphysLaw74). I think he just got confused ;)
If anyone needs me, I'll be at Kettler.
Also, I love that everyone’s assumption is that Chiarelli and the Boston scouts were there for Phoenix, because I saw that last night too – two teams playing in that game. Obviously it’s more likely they want to trade w/ the Yotes over a division rival, but still. Don’t assume, people!
(Not directed at you, sk8, directed at Boston fans :P)
If anyone needs me, I'll be at Kettler.
Thanks for the correct twitter account. How reliable is the guy or is this simply building off the Boston HFBs and other places discussion about wanting Yandle as part of a trade to get under the cap and knowing Chiarelli and scouts were watching the Phoenix game?
I took issue with the assumptions, as well, in part as I noted because Boston had a break in their schedule and it’s possible Chiarelli was meeting with some of his scouts and taking in a game as GMs/Scouts are known to do.
One note, I saw someone report last night that Chiarelli was also scheduled to be at Phoenix’s next game, which I think fed the rumor.
He’s kind of like their Corey – writes for ESPN Boston, does some NHL.com work, and I think he used to work for one of the Boston papers or NESN. That being said, he’s been wrong about stuff before and could just be feeding off of the rumor mill. He’s not Eklund, though.
If anyone needs me, I'll be at Kettler.
Right, but there’s no way Phoenix trades this guy for something other than a warm body and he only makes a little over a million – if Boston can get them to take back some hefty salary in return it could work.
Vomit.
We have more space if they’d prefer not to take on a roster player, and we have more offensive-related trade possibilities to offer than Boston. I’m really, really hoping GMGM gets in on this.
If anyone needs me, I'll be at Kettler.
Why would PHX take back a bad salary? That makes no sense, especially given their financial situation. I also don’t see them trading him for just picks/prospects, considering they need to build on last year. Flash, an offensive player who is still RFA, is our best trade bait. I guess they may want Fehr as well, but we all know who I’d rather move. They took Wolski and don’t seem to be a size queen franchise, so I could see them looking at Flash.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
I said hefty, not bad – and really that’s just anything over the value of Yandle’s contract. From the Bruins standpoint they’d be happy getting rid of whatever salary they can right now, so if it means unloading Sturm/Ryder/Stuart they probably would.
But agree that Flash would be good trade bait. I’d make that deal in a heartbeat.
If anyone needs me, I'll be at Kettler.
Ryder is a bad contract. Anyone BOS would actually want to move is a bad contract. Moving a good contract for Yandle is in a lot of respects a lateral move. So while it’s possible that they could move “hefty” salary, it’s just not likely that they are going to. Ask yourself who the “hefty” salaries are on BOS, then ask which ones BOS would want to move, then ask which ones PHX would take on. Not a whole lot of players that fit that profile.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
Not necessarily arguing with that – the Ryder one in particular is a moronic contract. I’d maybe take Sturm at that much but he’s getting more than he should, too (as is almost everyone in the Chiarelli era).
If anyone needs me, I'll be at Kettler.
And Sturm has injury problems. Lots of them in recent years. Why would PHX want a guy that BOS actively wants to get rid of?
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
…I don’t think I said they would. I’m saying that’s what Boston would be hoping they’d do.
Personally I think there’s no way Boston is able to dump their ridiculous salary for anything more than picks/prospects, it’s no secret that they have to get under the cap and soon. No GM is going to offer him a high return. Just telling you what I’ve heard, and if Boston is interested in Yandle they’re hoping Maloney gets a lobotomy in the next 24 hours so they can make it happen.
If anyone needs me, I'll be at Kettler.
I’d take Keith Yandle with a side order of Mark Stuart, with regards to all these rumours.
I poured spot remover on my dog. Now he's gone.
by Rather Bengt on Oct 26, 2010 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions
I’d give up a shitload for him. Why on earth are they making him available? (And do you have a link?)
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
The speculation on twitter (at least from the rumor’s source) is that they’re not ready to pay him what he’s worth and see him as somewhat expendable because of OEL.
Yeah, I didn’t realize it was a Twitter report or I wouldn’t have gotten a semi.
They definitely have a ton of young D, not just OEL (who, IMO, is the crown jewel). Gormley, Shlemko, Goncharov, Summers. The question is whether they want to get rid of the guy that they’ve developed into a top 4 D and have to go through it again with the young D. It may be the best route if they want to stay cheap, but I wonder how you get over the hump like that. If Yandle is available, GMGM has to push hard. He won’t have a Pronger price tag on him, but I’d give up a whole lot. I’d give up Flash and a 2 (would have to be next year’s 2) without batting an eye.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
I didn’t realize it was a Twitter report
…you do know that reporters and analysts are on Twitter with this stuff, right? It’s not just coming from some fan going “hey, know what would be a neat trade??” – reputable people are saying this is out there. Not that it’s 100% certain, but that people are hearing it.
If anyone needs me, I'll be at Kettler.
“Report” sounds like it was published in more than 140 characters. I’d like to see the accuracy of the Twitter stream-of-conscience-rosterbation. I guess the reported trades aren’t a whole lot better but “hey, I just realized BOS has scouts at the game and maybe PHX won’t pay Yandle so it’s a trade!” doesn’t pique me.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
Oy. It’s the 21st century, boys, news comes out in 140-character snippets.
There was this:
@MurphysLaw74: Source just told me Coyotes defenseman Keith Yandle is available and Bruins have interest. Yotes love Ekman-Larsson making Yandle available
And then this piece on CSNNE. Better?
If anyone needs me, I'll be at Kettler.
Sorry I’m late to the party. I’ve been going back and forth with Murphy.
Deal makes no sense. I outlined why on Twitter to Murphy.
The Artist Formerly Known as CP2Devil.
Links guy at Five For Howling.
My first thoughts on this, after reading this far.
Phoenix does not have a lot of cash. Yandle is young, cheap and good. Boston’s tradeable players are either not cheap, not young, or not as good as Yandle (or a mix of some/all of those factors).
Why would PHO take on salary in that situation? I know they need scoring help, but Yandle could get them scoring help that is not encumbered by the drawbacks of the BOS options.
I call BS on Boston getting in on Yandle.
Patron saint of quality footwear.
Much better. That’s why I asked for the link in the first place.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
Sorry, didn’t see your request for a link at first – I wouldn’t post something up here if I didn’t think it at least had some respectability / truth behind it. If you’re on Twitter you get good at sifting through the bullshit reports and finding the reputable sources, that’s what I went with.
If anyone needs me, I'll be at Kettler.
My posts on the topic probably didn’t help, but like I said the tweet I saw linked to a non-existent account, which didn’t help matters.
What’s being reported/tweeted out of Phoenix on these rumors?
On cue, Coyotes beat reporter Jim Gintonio just tweeted this.
Any of you folks out there who think #Coyotes are going to trade #KeithYandle have tweeted 1 too many times without a helmet.
The Artist Formerly Known as CP2Devil.
Links guy at Five For Howling.
Yup, saw that, too. Sounds like there’s a mouthy source running around Boston with false information, or else Phoenix media overrates Yandle’s off-limit-ed-ness-…ocity.
If anyone needs me, I'll be at Kettler.
And hence why F&B and I were dismissive of Twitter.
'Cause the end of what it was is what it is right now...
That has nothing to do with twitter. Newspaper/media guys have used sources for rumors for as long as the media has existed. You are blaming the medium which is the wrong thing to blame in this case.
The Artist Formerly Known as CP2Devil.
Links guy at Five For Howling.
I think the speed of the medium allows more BS to filter through.
'Cause the end of what it was is what it is right now...
Can’t you say the same for blogs, for example? Or any online medium with basically no production cost? Or, rather, can’t you see that being made during their emergence as legit/semi-legit forms of media?
That’s an excuse for lack of critical thinking (on the writer’s part as to what to write, or on the reader’s part as to who to follow).
Yes, but the length/rapidity issue still exists.
'Cause the end of what it was is what it is right now...
If you have a thesis paper you either don’t use Twitter or put it on a site and link to it on twitter.
The Artist Formerly Known as CP2Devil.
Links guy at Five For Howling.
Don’t disagree completely. See the article Becca linked before. That is essentially an article spawned from a Twitter rumor. Just because it’s on CSN doesn’t make it any more reputable. I just think it’s easier for idiots to post BS on Titter.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
it’s easier for idiots to post BS on Titter
/paging Mike Wise…
"Do you see my fist? It was fists like these that built quaint Canadian cities out of the harsh Canadian wilderness, etc. etc."
Not in Seattle anymore.
by SeattleCapsFan on Oct 26, 2010 2:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Titter.
Must be an after-hours Twitter I don’t know about.
"I’m happy to have contributed to this league, to have done something important in my career, I’m proud, but you always will think you still could’ve done more, but tonight tells I’ve done things well."
by Bald Pollack on Oct 26, 2010 2:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Actually it’s not spawned from a twitter rumor – or at least it doesn’t seem to be. It didn’t refer to Murphy’s report, Haggerty got his own source (likely the same one that talked to Murphy) and wrote an article on it.
Look, if these guys are combing Twitter trying to find rumors and actually writing about them, they deserve to be fired and drummed out of journalism. But that’s not what it sounds like, they’re just reporting on what they got from a source, which is how most stories get started. Just because they then report it on Twitter along with posting an article doesn’t make it more or less factual.
If anyone needs me, I'll be at Kettler.
You don’t think Haggerty saw the Twitter stuff before he wrote his? It’s pretty funny how similar the description is between the two (including the use of “hefty”).
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
…wait, did they both use “hefty”? I thought that was just my wording. But they both came out with their reports – and mind you, both said just according to a source, not that it was 100% true – around the same time.
If anyone needs me, I'll be at Kettler.
Eh. If it’s wrong, it’s certainly not exclusive to Twitter – a reputable source is a reputable source, whether he reports something in 140 characters or in an article on a website somewhere.
If anyone needs me, I'll be at Kettler.
I disagree. I think the medium is the message a bit here.
'Cause the end of what it was is what it is right now...
Exactly just know your sources. Someone like Bob McKenzie is quite careful about what he posts on Twitter and takes extra caution and diligence in making sure he has basis for his posts. It’s why I respect someone like McKenzie alot more than some sources.
I poured spot remover on my dog. Now he's gone.
by Rather Bengt on Oct 26, 2010 2:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Exactly. You choose who you follow. Frankly, I don’t get the resistance. It’s just a medium. Just like any medium it has its pluses and minuses. Some people use it wisely, some people don’t. I could say the same of TV, radio, print, blogs, etc.
The Artist Formerly Known as CP2Devil.
Links guy at Five For Howling.
Speaking of Bob McK
His Latest Tweet:
Looks like Souray did the damage with a haymaker to the side of Matt (son of Kim) Clackson’s head.
I poured spot remover on my dog. Now he's gone.
by Rather Bengt on Oct 26, 2010 2:43 PM EDT up reply actions
D’ohboy and you really need to get twitter accounts. Not sure what the resistance is about, but its good for being a hockey news feed if nothing else.
The Artist Formerly Known as CP2Devil.
Links guy at Five For Howling.
I like using the rest of you as a filter. :)
You guys are like an RSS feed.
Or is that not cool anymore?
'Cause the end of what it was is what it is right now...
I still use my RSS feed – so you can probably deduce that no, it’s not cool, and yes, my head is near-exploding with hockey-related news on a daily basis.
If anyone needs me, I'll be at Kettler.
I use them as well. Even more so now that I do the links posts.
The Artist Formerly Known as CP2Devil.
Links guy at Five For Howling.
Why does Phoenix make that trade? They know pretty well what they’ve got in Yandle. If they’re shipping him out, they’re going to trade him for a quality center or wing. Phoenix doesn’t need a lesser version of Wolski.
PHX doesn’t have any real high end scoring talent, if they win (like last year) it’s scoring by committee. They get a bunch of secondary scorers and hope to get enough of them clicking that it’s hard to shut down one line. If Belanger is getting ice time on a scoring line then they could use a guy like Flash (not saying Flash will replace Belanger, he won’t. Just saying Belanger isn’t an offensive guy so it indicates their lack of scoring depth). When Wolski goes down with an injury, they’ll wish they had anything that could resemble a replacement.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
You are both right which is why a deal with an offensively impaired team like the Bruins makes little sense. I have no doubt the teams are talking, I just doubt that Yandle is part of the discussions.
The Artist Formerly Known as CP2Devil.
Links guy at Five For Howling.
If Yandle is available for anything less than a king’s ransom, GMGM better be burning up Maloney’s phonelines.
"Essentially, all models are wrong, but some are useful" George E.P. Box
by Knee high to a duck on Oct 26, 2010 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions
From Vogs’ blog:
"He’s not going to make the trip," says Caps coach Bruce Boudreau of Poti. "Or if he does, he’ll meet us somewhere on the road. We just thought it would be better for him to stay back and be treated."
Eesh.
You perhaps knew me better as "Your Nation's Capital." Same great commentary, now with 100% more transparency!
If only there had been some indication that Poti might have trouble with his groin, the team could have taken steps to have some depth available…but when it comes totally out of the blue like this, who can you blame?
Patron saint of quality footwear.
Agreed. Oh well, at least they didn’t extend him past this season…
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
I love when 30 Thoughts is all new and Caps-saturated.
"I’m happy to have contributed to this league, to have done something important in my career, I’m proud, but you always will think you still could’ve done more, but tonight tells I’ve done things well."
by Bald Pollack on Oct 26, 2010 3:23 PM EDT reply actions 3 recs
And with a Todd Nelson shout-out to lead it off.
I poured spot remover on my dog. Now he's gone.
by Rather Bengt on Oct 26, 2010 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Was not surprised yet was really really disappointed to hear how Ovie talked about women
"There’s some quality action at Soho Rooms, real high quality," (Ovehckin) says when we start talking clubs. "You should go pick up some telochki." The word literally means "calves" and semantically falls somewhere between "chicks" and "bitches."
Come on Ovie. Grow up.
http://dcist.com/2010/10/alexander_ovechkin_has_opinions_on.php
"By far the worst performers on the team are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins
So he essentially used the word “broads” in a gentleman’s magazine?
"Semin had two goals this year, Perreault comes in and he gets three."
by jordanDC on Oct 26, 2010 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions 6 recs
which is a heck of a lot nicer than a lot of the things I’ve been called walking down the street or in local bars lately by random men who are not multi-millionaires.
Pledge Drive 2010-2011: SO KIDS CAN!! Help build a playground
Let it be known that I rec’d a jordanDC comment. And game Semin an up arrow this week. Strange days, man…
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
by J.P. on Oct 26, 2010 3:46 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
you’re making me wonder if you’re maybe doing drugs you purchased from a Georgetown dorm room.
Pledge Drive 2010-2011: SO KIDS CAN!! Help build a playground
by RedBirdie on Oct 26, 2010 3:47 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Rest assured I avoid everything that has anything to do with that institution.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
by J.P. on Oct 26, 2010 3:48 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
A little OT, but as long as you mentioned it, I’m rather bummed that I just sent my meagher contribution to GU last week. What the hell are they teaching these kids these days?
/snark off.
"It's always good to have vikings."
teaching them how to pass organic chemistry, apparently!
Pledge Drive 2010-2011: SO KIDS CAN!! Help build a playground
Please.
Here’s a reminder: the “G” in GQ stands for “Gentlemen’s.” Women aren’t necessarily supposed to like it (and all people aren’t necessarily supposed to take it too seriously).
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
GQ, objectivity and demean women?! They would never have scantily clad women on the cover and all over the interior pages while men are fully clothed. Never never never.
Oh, wait, this month’s issue has scantily clad women and fully clothed men? You don’t say.
Pledge Drive 2010-2011: SO KIDS CAN!! Help build a playground
They have lots of shirtless dudes and fully clothed women on the WE channel. Probably not the same thing though…
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
by twistedlogic on Oct 26, 2010 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions
I am shocked and offended and am going home to burn my Ovechkin jersey in protest.
"Do you see my fist? It was fists like these that built quaint Canadian cities out of the harsh Canadian wilderness, etc. etc."
Not in Seattle anymore.
by SeattleCapsFan on Oct 26, 2010 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Calling women something that "semantically falls somewhere between “chicks” and “bitches.”" is not ok.
I wouldn’t let my friends do it. I hate when it happens in songs or movies. And I don’t want the best player on my team to be doing it.
It’s not ‘boys being boys’, ‘calling someone a broad’ or ‘expressing an interest in girls’.
It’s perpetuating hurtful stereotypes and gender roles. It’s tacitly approving it for other men.
This isn’t a massive controversy. I’m not going to renounce to the team. But it’s offensive, disappointing and immature.
"By far the worst performers on the team are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins
Except that there’s a translation issue there. What if the translator had used “broads” instead?
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
Or “lactation”
"Do you see my fist? It was fists like these that built quaint Canadian cities out of the harsh Canadian wilderness, etc. etc."
Not in Seattle anymore.
by SeattleCapsFan on Oct 26, 2010 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions
It seems that things are a lot different in Russia. While this might be offensive to Americans, is it really fair to judge someone who grew up in another culture by our standards? That said, Ovie should be a bit smarter about what he says and does in front of the press.
Friedman actually touches on this in today’s 30 Thoughts. He suggests that it’s not so much that Ovie is so loudmouthed out of control idiot with no filter as Ovie thinks that’s what people want him to be so that’s what he gives them.
Pledge Drive 2010-2011: SO KIDS CAN!! Help build a playground
Yes I read that and thought it was an interesting take. Perhaps Ovie is just giving GQ what he thinks they want? He probably didn’t realize that a men’s magazine article would be analyzed to death by caps fans of all types who likely never normally read GQ. I know I don’t.
I thought the end of the article was interesting when the old lady showed up and kicked Ovie out of the ice rink. If Ovie really didn’t respect women, he wouldn’t of meekly obeyed her and left the ice rink. No big timing her and saying I’m Ovie, let us stay, or acting disrespectful to her.
I do think Ovie is immature, but as much as I find some of this stuff offensive on the first read, I have to remind myself that things are a lot different in Russia.
Just saw this quote by Leonsis about Ovie:
Leonsis then talked about how Ovechkin is “fundamentally, instinctively, a very gracious, very sweet, very well-behaved young man,” but how stories of his sweetness and grace don’t make news.
I don’t think that’s a bad read on the situation, but only because Ovi created the image and now seems to feel the need to perpetuate it. He doesn’t.
I think the more interesting part of the article talks about life in the part of Moscow where he grew up. It kind of reads like the equivalent of a kid from inner city who makes it big playing basketball.
"It's always good to have vikings."
it would be marginally less offensive.
the context was clear. it’s not respectful of women. it’s disappointing.
"By far the worst performers on the team are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins
He’s talking about women who sleep with him to get access to his lifestyle…what’s wrong with describing them as something like “broad”?
Patron saint of quality footwear.
I mean, do you really need me to break down gender bias and power roles?
"By far the worst performers on the team are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins
I kind of want to see that same argument blow up again.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
We’ve had enough of those discussions lately.
(Yes, I know about the avatar hounding - just pretend mine is invisible.)
Apologies, I poked around and couldn’t find anything on Ovie’s comments so I wanted to say something here.
"By far the worst performers on the team are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins
The most recent wasn’t related to Ovie, it was a discussion about about gender and objectification. It was sparked by the Red Rockers and Ice Girls.
(Yes, I know about the avatar hounding - just pretend mine is invisible.)
damn, I totally would have posted there.
where was it?
"By far the worst performers on the team are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins
http://www.japersrink.com/2010/10/7/1735452/thursday-caps-clips-opening-day
(Yes, I know about the avatar hounding - just pretend mine is invisible.)
“Broads?” What is this…..the 1940’s?
"I would feed them lefts until I was pretty much tired of doing it." - Alan May, JRR, 10.16.2010
I have been watching lots of Mad Men lately.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
Well I was really just biting off of Jordan’s initial comment.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
It’s perpetuating hurtful stereotypes and gender roles. It’s tacitly approving it for other men.
Not only was it a russian word, but we don’t know the real translation. We only know what it falls between; which, is a rough estimation at best. Furthermore, it’s a word that is from an entirely different language coming from a guy from a very different culture.
Those hurtful stereotypes and gender roles, which I agree, can become quite offensive, are most likely very different in Russia.
Soon the Championship with be ours, all ours!
I mean, its a word for cows being applied to women in the context of picking them up at bars
we don’t exactly need the rosetta stone here.
"By far the worst performers on the team are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins
Are you equally as offended by the term “chicks”? Because that’s a word for chickens that is applied to women (that I, as a woman, apply to women), and to be honest, I don’t know which is worse.
"Do you see my fist? It was fists like these that built quaint Canadian cities out of the harsh Canadian wilderness, etc. etc."
Not in Seattle anymore.
by SeattleCapsFan on Oct 26, 2010 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions
it usually makes me cringe.
but as a white male, I’m not the one who’s constantly undermined and disenfranchised through gender bias.
again, this isn’t world-stopping. I’m not going to boycott the team.
But language like that is part of the problem. It’s not OK. And I wish people didn’t do it, ovie included.
"By far the worst performers on the team are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins
Okay, you’re offended by it. We’ve established that and I’m not sure what else is gained in continuing this line of conversation.
"Essentially, all models are wrong, but some are useful" George E.P. Box
by Knee high to a duck on Oct 26, 2010 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions
And Americans use a word for baby chickens for women in the context of picking them up at bars. Who effin’ cares?
I’m far more offended that Ted has taken all those young women hostage and forced them at gunpoint to dress scantily and jiggle around in support of his hockey team on a nightly basis.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
by J.P. on Oct 26, 2010 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions 7 recs
Haha. lots & lots & lots of people care.
I understand you don’t. That’s your prerogative.
"By far the worst performers on the team are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins
by smutsboy1 on Oct 26, 2010 4:01 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Actually you’re the first person I’ve ever heard of caring about the term “chicks”. Seriously.
"Do you see my fist? It was fists like these that built quaint Canadian cities out of the harsh Canadian wilderness, etc. etc."
Not in Seattle anymore.
by SeattleCapsFan on Oct 26, 2010 4:01 PM EDT up reply actions
you need to get out more.
"By far the worst performers on the team are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins
Don’t escalate this. She’s asserting that she’s never heard it before, not that you’re an idiot.
"Essentially, all models are wrong, but some are useful" George E.P. Box
by Knee high to a duck on Oct 26, 2010 4:05 PM EDT up reply actions
that wasn’t my intent.
I’m shocked that people have never heard of a single person taking offense to “chicks” or other such terms.
"By far the worst performers on the team are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins
There are other such terms, but I have to agree with her insofar as I’ve never grouped “chicks” in with them before, nor heard anyone else do it before you.
"Essentially, all models are wrong, but some are useful" George E.P. Box
by Knee high to a duck on Oct 26, 2010 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions
I have heard people take offense to the word “chick”, for what it’s worth.
Eat, drink, and be merry! And then drink some more.
Hey hey, ho ho, this penis party’s got to go!
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
by Rob Parker on Oct 26, 2010 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions 5 recs
Kumbaya, my Lord, kumbaya…
Release the Mackan!
by Killer_Carlson on Oct 26, 2010 4:21 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Kumbaya sounds like something Tuuka Rask would say.
Eat, drink, and be merry! And then drink some more.
Not enough vowels.
You perhaps knew me better as "Your Nation's Capital." Same great commentary, now with 100% more transparency!
not enough vowel next to each other, either.
Pledge Drive 2010-2011: SO KIDS CAN!! Help build a playground
Takin’ this OT for a moment, I pledged a dollar for the goal they took away from Greenie. He paid the price for that goal.
You perhaps knew me better as "Your Nation's Capital." Same great commentary, now with 100% more transparency!
Merci! I’ll add it. and once Green actually gets on the score sheet, I’ll have a new post to maybe drum up some more interest.
sadly, looks like Theo Night is gonna fall through :(
Pledge Drive 2010-2011: SO KIDS CAN!! Help build a playground
I am adding a dollar for his plus/minus at the end of the year to my pledge. (In other words, if he is +35, add $35 to my pledge.) I will post this in the So Kids Can thread too.
Women are angels. And when someone breaks our wings, we simply continue to fly ...on a broomstick. We're flexible like that (:
by MR Laughlin18 on Oct 26, 2010 5:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Can we spend another 100 posts debating whether it was kicked or directed or whatever?
Maybe we can quote from the rule book?
Please. I have nothing better to do. :-)
Life With Spidey -- a blog about sports, travel, work, family and fun.
Representing Caps fandom in the Gateway to the West.
OH MY GOD IT WAS A CLEAR PIVOT AND NOT A DISTINCT KICKING MOTION!!! KILL THE REFS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Pledge Drive 2010-2011: SO KIDS CAN!! Help build a playground
But was the pivot backwards correlated to whether or not they had a winning record in their first ten games?
If you pivot to go backwards in the first ten games are you more or less likely to win the cup?
Life With Spidey -- a blog about sports, travel, work, family and fun.
Representing Caps fandom in the Gateway to the West.
I think you just caused my brain to explode.
Pledge Drive 2010-2011: SO KIDS CAN!! Help build a playground
Sorry. I’m just so exasperated by the correlation/causality thread. Shame on me for trying to agree to disagree in a tactful manner.
Life With Spidey -- a blog about sports, travel, work, family and fun.
Representing Caps fandom in the Gateway to the West.
by STLSpidey on Oct 26, 2010 4:35 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
tact never got anyone anywhere on the internet
Pledge Drive 2010-2011: SO KIDS CAN!! Help build a playground
I bet Ovechkin threw a hundred pounds of hamburger at Georges Laraque, too.
"Essentially, all models are wrong, but some are useful" George E.P. Box
by Knee high to a duck on Oct 26, 2010 5:07 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
More PCU references? Priceless. Rec’d for anti-vegan sentiment.
Got my user name back from the dingo...
He used Laraque for a specific reason as well.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
Nope. But if people are allowed to chime in on one side, they should be allowed to chime in on the other, I suppose.
Eat, drink, and be merry! And then drink some more.
For what it’s worth, I rec’d your first comment, and don’t think this is a big deal, or even a deal at all. But some people might and should be allowed to.
Eat, drink, and be merry! And then drink some more.
Agreed on that, but the ‘shocked’ qualifier seemed to invite response. I’m actually pretty antipathetic towards this entire argument; my first resonse was “Fuck me, not this, again.”
"Essentially, all models are wrong, but some are useful" George E.P. Box
by Knee high to a duck on Oct 26, 2010 4:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Fuck me
you’re just perpetuating the commission of violent sexual acts with that sort of language, young man.
Pledge Drive 2010-2011: SO KIDS CAN!! Help build a playground
by RedBirdie on Oct 26, 2010 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions 5 recs
Aaaaaaaaand, scene.
"Do you see my fist? It was fists like these that built quaint Canadian cities out of the harsh Canadian wilderness, etc. etc."
Not in Seattle anymore.
by SeattleCapsFan on Oct 26, 2010 4:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Y'all didn't watch enough "Saved By the Bell."
by Wheeler on Oct 26, 2010 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
OBJECTIFYING WOMEN!
"Do you see my fist? It was fists like these that built quaint Canadian cities out of the harsh Canadian wilderness, etc. etc."
Not in Seattle anymore.
by SeattleCapsFan on Oct 26, 2010 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Thanks KHTAD
"Do you see my fist? It was fists like these that built quaint Canadian cities out of the harsh Canadian wilderness, etc. etc."
Not in Seattle anymore.
by SeattleCapsFan on Oct 26, 2010 4:09 PM EDT up reply actions
I’d much rather your ass be fully clad. I don’t want to see it.
Pledge Drive 2010-2011: SO KIDS CAN!! Help build a playground
by RedBirdie on Oct 26, 2010 4:02 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
No, scantily. And forced. If not, why would people be outraged about it?
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
For my part, I’m annoyed that the Rink doesn’t have a scantily jiggling set of its own, if you really want to know.
Patron saint of quality footwear.
The “pants off” crowd doesn’t count?
(Yes, I know about the avatar hounding - just pretend mine is invisible.)
ewwwwwwwww. I don’t want to see that sort of jiggling.
Pledge Drive 2010-2011: SO KIDS CAN!! Help build a playground
...
Well, you can find this image all over the site…
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
by Rob Parker on Oct 26, 2010 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Someone let Capschick know that she’s perpetuating gender power vector inequity stereotypical imbalance and….something or another.
That’s a pretty hot picture, by the way.
Patron saint of quality footwear.
Hotter than any of the Red Rockers.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
And more scantily clad.
"Do you see my fist? It was fists like these that built quaint Canadian cities out of the harsh Canadian wilderness, etc. etc."
Not in Seattle anymore.
by SeattleCapsFan on Oct 26, 2010 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions
I dunno, the long sleeves and exposed thighs vs. short sleeved belly shirts. I think it’s a toss up on the “more flesh” debate.
Pledge Drive 2010-2011: SO KIDS CAN!! Help build a playground
are you sure? I bet its a weagle thong.
Pledge Drive 2010-2011: SO KIDS CAN!! Help build a playground
Could be a onesie with panties sewn in, right?
Life With Spidey -- a blog about sports, travel, work, family and fun.
Representing Caps fandom in the Gateway to the West.
She has no pants!
Wait, isn’t that how everyone watches hockey?
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Oct 26, 2010 7:10 PM EDT up reply actions
I wonder if the lettering is individually stitched, or if it’s a patch..
"Semin had two goals this year, Perreault comes in and he gets three."
seriously. I neckline on the jersey is all wrong. It was probably made using illegal child labor in Laos!
Pledge Drive 2010-2011: SO KIDS CAN!! Help build a playground
That’’s Kathie Lee Gifford?
I poured spot remover on my dog. Now he's gone.
by Rather Bengt on Oct 26, 2010 4:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah but the lettering on the back is probably outstanding.
Life With Spidey -- a blog about sports, travel, work, family and fun.
Representing Caps fandom in the Gateway to the West.
I never realized that those were footie-pajamas, not hockey socks.
Six Beers Too Many fantasy team: It's Neu-virth Than Usual
"I wake up in the middle night frustrated because we lost out in the first round and I want to see our players hoist the Stanley Cup." -Brooks Laich
by CapitalCentre on Oct 26, 2010 4:27 PM EDT up reply actions
I have a pair of those socks.
John Carlson - Glory follows him.
Six Beers Too Many Fantasy Team - BizNasty's Hobo Rodeo
I totally want a pair. I love tall socks for the winter.
Pledge Drive 2010-2011: SO KIDS CAN!! Help build a playground
I got mine at American Apparel. /end OT :)
John Carlson - Glory follows him.
Six Beers Too Many Fantasy Team - BizNasty's Hobo Rodeo
end OT?
If anything is on topic during an objectifying women discussion, it’s American Apparel!
"This guy is an android. He's not human....Oh my goodness."
Once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny
If you've read this far...seek help.
by ThePeerless on Oct 26, 2010 6:10 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
hah, that’s true. In america, that’s probably not a great thing to say. In Russia? who knows. Like someone said above, there’s plenty of cultural context missing.
I do understand where you’re coming from, it is a bit discerning to hear Ovechkin talk like that. But it’s tough to indict him for something with so many unknown variables
Soon the Championship with be ours, all ours!
And yet there’s this piece from the GQ article I haven’t seen mentioned:
“In a 1992 survey of Russian high school students by two Western academics, 60 percent of girls said they would exchange sex for hard currency.”
LET'S GO CAPS!!!
And here we are with our undies in a bundle over a simple word. Big picture, people.
"Do you see my fist? It was fists like these that built quaint Canadian cities out of the harsh Canadian wilderness, etc. etc."
Not in Seattle anymore.
by SeattleCapsFan on Oct 26, 2010 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Not sure if I’d want that same survey done here. Although I am slightly curious as to what America’s response would be.
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
by twistedlogic on Oct 26, 2010 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions
not the least bit surprising. In many places, prostitution is the only way women have to control their bodies and their financial security. We can be appalled by it, but it’s an astonishing logical choice when you consider the circumstances many women around the world find themselves in.
Do I wish that no woman (or man) had to sell their bodies? Of course. But do I understand why it happens? Yeah.
Pledge Drive 2010-2011: SO KIDS CAN!! Help build a playground
In america, that’s probably not a great thing to say. In Russia? who knows. Like someone said above, there’s plenty of cultural context missing.
Andrei Arshavin agrees.
"I’m happy to have contributed to this league, to have done something important in my career, I’m proud, but you always will think you still could’ve done more, but tonight tells I’ve done things well."
by Bald Pollack on Oct 26, 2010 4:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Not breaking news: Alex Ovechkin isn’t mature.
Personally, his on-ice immaturity bothers me a hell of a lot more than this.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
by J.P. on Oct 26, 2010 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
Amen.
"Do you see my fist? It was fists like these that built quaint Canadian cities out of the harsh Canadian wilderness, etc. etc."
Not in Seattle anymore.
by SeattleCapsFan on Oct 26, 2010 3:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Little people Alex. That’s what they like to be called. Little people.
'Cause the end of what it was is what it is right now...
In both cases, he enjoys his shifts long.
I poured spot remover on my dog. Now he's gone.
by Rather Bengt on Oct 26, 2010 4:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Apparently, in the context of the full article, what he says isn’t as bad as when it is isolated in excerpts.
(Yes, I know about the avatar hounding - just pretend mine is invisible.)
I’d be curious to hear more in that regard.
"By far the worst performers on the team are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins
you could read the article yourself, and then jump to conclusion.
Pledge Drive 2010-2011: SO KIDS CAN!! Help build a playground
And then read this by Capsyounguns last night. Just like what Steinz, Puckdaddy and DCist are doing, the GQ writer created the story to fit what his target audience wants.
"I would feed them lefts until I was pretty much tired of doing it." - Alan May, JRR, 10.16.2010
oh yeah, I thought that was a great recap/review.
Pledge Drive 2010-2011: SO KIDS CAN!! Help build a playground
It sounds about what a 25 year old guy would say. Is it wrong? Sure, but he’s a product of this generation. Don’t hate the player, hate the game. He’s not helping to continue the objectification of the women, GQ is.
Human existence being an hallucination containing in itself the secondary hallucinations of day and night (the latter an insanitary condition of the atmosphere due to accretions of black air) it ill becomes any man of sense to be concerned at the illusory approach of the supreme hallucination known as death.
strongly disagree about completely ignoring Ovie’s agency in the situation.
He has to own what he says. Everyone does.
"By far the worst performers on the team are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins
Speaking of Ovie’s agency… he has carefully managed by the top worldwide image consultants in the sports world. He’s portraying what they want him to portray. Take it up with them.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
As a former high-school policy debater, I can tell you this much: language K’s won’t win you a whole lot of arguments on a hockey message board.
Likewise, topicality debates will generally only get you a couple of sharp words from the mods.
I don’t really follow you.
I’m not trying to win any arguments. I wanted to comment on Ovie’s comments. I did so, and it has been quite interesting to see all the people here who don’t agree or don’t care about what he said or possibly said through a translator.
"By far the worst performers on the team are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins
For another measure of the reaction visit the Alex Ovechkin blog:
This has the initial reactions: http://alexovetjkin.blogspot.com/2010/10/ovechkin-in-gq-magazine.html
Then a follow up: http://alexovetjkin.blogspot.com/2010/10/washington-loves-alex-ovechkin.html
(Yes, I know about the avatar hounding - just pretend mine is invisible.)
for me, it’s matter of picking your fights. I’d love to see demeaning language gone and all that (I could spend hours discussing rape culture and the environmental of fear women are conditioned to live in and slut shaming and victim blaming). But right now, I gotta pick my spots. Ovie’s use of some Russian slang term for women that falls somewhere between “chicks” and “bitch” just isn’t the fight I’m willing to fight right now.
Pledge Drive 2010-2011: SO KIDS CAN!! Help build a playground
by RedBirdie on Oct 26, 2010 4:30 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
I respect that, but personally I feel it’s important to discuss such topics among fans, especially among the more passionate ones and in a public forum.
Ultimately things usually only change in sports when fans want them to.
"By far the worst performers on the team are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins
I think the backlash you’re getting is not that people necessarily feel these topics are unimportant (though some do), but rather that a discussion like the one you’re trying to have just happened. When a Semin dicussion goes to the right rail, people get equally snarky.
Eat, drink, and be merry! And then drink some more.
and again, picking my spots. I’m way more concerned about the acceptability of homophobic language and slurs in sports than Alex Ovechkin’s choice of Russian slang words in some article for a borderline misogynistic magazine.
Pledge Drive 2010-2011: SO KIDS CAN!! Help build a playground
by RedBirdie on Oct 26, 2010 4:41 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Agreed and rec’d from a fellow RB.
I poured spot remover on my dog. Now he's gone.
by Rather Bengt on Oct 26, 2010 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions
and again, picking my spots. I’m way more concerned about the acceptability of homophobic language and slurs in sports than Alex Ovechkin’s choice of Russian slang words in some article for a borderline misogynistic magazine.
I respect that. I would say I was the same way until I got to know more people who are more passionate about gender & female roles.
Now I try to be conscious of both, & lots of other stuff.
"By far the worst performers on the team are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins
I only have so many hours in the day. I wish I could fight to good fight on homophobia, rape culture, poverty, lack of access to education in much of the world, get people the help they need, keep illegal weapons out of the hands of criminals, cure lupus, and save the whales and the redwoods and the polar bears, but I don’t.
I’m a woman. I know what it’s like to deal with the demeaning language and having to make sure you’re safe every single moment. Make sure you’re not wearing the “wrong” clothes and in the “wring” place after dark. Every single woman on this board lives that every single day. Like I said earlier, “broad” would be one of the least offensive things said to me lately. We live it, and I’m not really seeing the women of this board, women who are not the least bit afraid to voice their opinions and call out sexual objectification when they see it, make a big deal out of what Ovie said.
Pledge Drive 2010-2011: SO KIDS CAN!! Help build a playground
by RedBirdie on Oct 26, 2010 5:17 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
All I said was that I’m very very disappointed in Ovie and I hope he grows up.
I appreciate that many women don’t find it offensive or that they want to pick bigger battles to fight. But that doesn’t really preclude me from making my observation, or recognizing its connection to larger societal dynamics.
"By far the worst performers on the team are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins
I saw nothing wrong with your comments myself.
I do think like the similar conversation that occurred a little while ago that this thing needed to be taken to the OT or dropped at some point. Just my two cents.
The Artist Formerly Known as CP2Devil.
Links guy at Five For Howling.
If you want players to be the perfect role models, or model citizens you’re head’s in the wrong place. They are people, just like the rest of us. They do something exceptionally well and are compensated for it. Why are athletes different from politicians or businessmen? If you don’t like what they do, teach your kids not to behave like that. But when they put on that uniform, just fucking win.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
by Rob Parker on Oct 26, 2010 4:41 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Jeez. In his downtime he picks up girls in bars and has sex with them. He refers to them with a term that indicates he doesn’t hold them in great esteem. Why would he? They’re sluts…
Why should I care?
The only reason I’d care is if it hindered his on-ice production. Now, if you want to make the case that his summer of cavorting led to him showing up out of shape, and thus has lessened his ability to have an impact on the games thus far…then I could get into it.
But crucifying him on some feminist gender role cross, I just don’t get it.
Patron saint of quality footwear.
I’m not crucifying him, and even though it’s not how you see things, I’m sure that you can understand how others want to hold the players they root for to higher standards than on-ice production.
"By far the worst performers on the team are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins
by smutsboy1 on Oct 26, 2010 4:33 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I don’t root for him as a person, I root for him as a player. Most of the Capitals are probably people I wouldn’t associate with for any number of reasons, yet I don’t find the need to say they should act a certain way off ice. I’m not trying to be snarky about it, just sayin’
Human existence being an hallucination containing in itself the secondary hallucinations of day and night (the latter an insanitary condition of the atmosphere due to accretions of black air) it ill becomes any man of sense to be concerned at the illusory approach of the supreme hallucination known as death.
I understand. I just disagree.
My feelings were largely cemented when I watched NFL team after NFL team employ serial women abusers. I mean, if there’s anyone who should never get an NFL paycheck again, it’s Michael Pittman. And yet here is Shanahan, bringing the guy in as a mentor this off-season.
If the fans cared, the teams wouldn’t employ the especially egregious dirtbag/criminals.
"By far the worst performers on the team are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins
Hold on now, abuse is a whole ’nother kettle of fish. Men that slap women around deserve the darkest hole we can find for them. And I would/do object to the employment of outright criminals.
AO’s language doesn’t rise to that level, imo.
Patron saint of quality footwear.
I wasn’t equating the two.
Simply listing them as two things (of vastly different degrees) that I find completely unacceptable.
"By far the worst performers on the team are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins
Okay I’m late to the party and I haven’t finished this thread yet, but HOLD ON. You have to apply different measuring standards here. You went from not liking a foreign word used by Ovi over in Russia in a Russian context in June (a word that that falls somewhere in the gray area of “broad” or “chick”, neither of which is going to get my panties in a twist and not even close to the far dirtier P or C slang word applied to women here in the good ole’ USA) to an NFL player who abuses women.
You have linked them just by going down that path in your posts in these threads.
For better or worse Ovi has his own version of “good girl” and “bad girl.” Do I wish he had a little more nuance in his views of women—yes. Does this make him an abuser and disrespectful of women—no.
If anything I’ve gleaned over the reams of quotes from Ovi, I think he is a mama’s boy first and foremost. And he’s a flirt. Because he likes women. Especially on a yacht in Turkey when he wants to forget all that hockey stuff for a bit. And he doesn’t want to settle down—at least not yet. Because he has some serious achievement stuff he wants to accomplish first.
So what’s the problem? He lives a quiet life here in DC with his family around for the season. And someday he’s going to marry a “good girl”, probably someday after his NHL career.
There are a lot of people who view the world and the sexes in this way but they just didn’t happen to be a star athlete who probably thought GQ was a cool mag and who wanted to strut his stuff a bit for the reporter, who being from GQ no doubt encouraged and exaggerated quite a bit (in a very Mad Men and mobster stylish way). I’d say this piece reflects even more on the author than on Ovi.
Honestly we just can’t get too PC about this. I’m far more worried about his on ice performance and his performance as captain.
Alright, confess-how many goals are you going to make this year?
"I'm not going to tell!"
Well can you at least guarantee fifty?
"No way. I have a different objective. To win."
by capsyoungguns on Oct 26, 2010 6:28 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
And I think there’s a huge difference between someone who is a serial abuser and a criminal, and someone like Ovechkin.
I’m just not sure how you think the fans have control over personnel decisions.
Pledge Drive 2010-2011: SO KIDS CAN!! Help build a playground
Because we should boycott the Caps until they move AO, invoke personality and character tests to ensure we have a bunch of choir boys, lose every game, and watch as some other team swoops in to sign our morally-defective stars.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
To be unneccessarily hyperbolic in the other direction, we should forgive someone all transgressions just because they’re good at sports.
Eat, drink, and be merry! And then drink some more.
No, but the line you drew is ridiculously sensitive. How many NHL players do you think haven’t referred to women as a broad, chick, slut, bitch, etc.? You think you could field a competitive team like that?
Yeah, fans vote with their wallets, and overwhelmingly they prefer to see a team win than to see a team full of guys they would want their daughter to date. The line you drew isn’t “does he beat women” or “does he rape women” or anything that actually endangers people. It’s whether or not he casually refers to women in a way that is pretty standard in our society. What about a guy that drinks and drives? That upsets me more than what AO said, but realistically it’s just not going to get weeded out. I prefer to make my stand, insofar as I even care to, on players that engage in outrageous conduct that directly threatens the health or safety of other people. 25 year old dudes talking like 25 year old dudes doesn’t cross that line for me. Did the part about him making out with two girls at once offend your delicate sensibilities as well?
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
Completely useless over-generalization.
"By far the worst performers on the team are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins
How so? Given the line you’ve drawn on outrage you basically condemned the entire NHL.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
hyperbole upon hyperbole
I’m not “outraged” by anything here.
"By far the worst performers on the team are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins
You’re talking about fans voting with their wallets and the culture changing. What conclusion would you have me draw?
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
I’ve clearly and repeatedly stated that I’m simply disappointed in Ovie.
My comments about fans voting with their wallets was clearly mentioned in the context of theoretical discussion about what standards we hold athletes to and what could be done to change it, if anything.
"By far the worst performers on the team are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins
I’m just not sure how you think the fans have control over personnel decisions.
Fans vote with their wallets, which is ultimately the only thing any owner ever pays attention to.
If Team X’s super star was a convicted murderer, and people refused to go to games, the owner would cut the super star immediately. It’s an extreme hypothetical, but it makes my point.
"By far the worst performers on the team are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins
And yet, Michael Vick has a job.
The Ovi that the author chose to represent only has a culturally normative view about women. While I would love it if every hockey player espoused and lived feminist values, if we can’t even get women in the general population to do so, then too heavy a burden of blame cannot be assigned to a 25-year old multimillionaire male athlete from an oligarchy.
Got my user name back from the dingo...
All I’ve said is that I’m disappointed in Ovie.
I don’t hold him responsible for gender inequality in America today and I don’t think the Caps should cut him.
"By far the worst performers on the team are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins
All this angst over a Russian word.
Alright, confess-how many goals are you going to make this year?
"I'm not going to tell!"
Well can you at least guarantee fifty?
"No way. I have a different objective. To win."
by capsyoungguns on Oct 26, 2010 6:32 PM EDT up reply actions
That’s some sweet wood panelling.
I poured spot remover on my dog. Now he's gone.
by Rather Bengt on Oct 26, 2010 5:02 PM EDT up reply actions
RMNB also has a good range of responses:
(Yes, I know about the avatar hounding - just pretend mine is invisible.)
In other news, Puck Daddy has video of Nylander’s accident, although it’s hard to see anything because of the angle.
Pledge Drive 2010-2011: SO KIDS CAN!! Help build a playground
Incredibly engaging thread, despite the exasperation dripping from so many of these comments.
"This guy is an android. He's not human....Oh my goodness."
Psst guys, hide the Christina Hendricks photos, Dad’s home.
I poured spot remover on my dog. Now he's gone.
Especially the one from behind. I blush easily.
Alright, confess-how many goals are you going to make this year?
"I'm not going to tell!"
Well can you at least guarantee fifty?
"No way. I have a different objective. To win."
by capsyoungguns on Oct 26, 2010 6:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Increased Salary Cap
Have you guys heard anything about the NHL salary cap being expected “to rise by at least $3.5-$4.5 million” because of a new TV deal in the works?
First of all, NHL revenues should slightly go up next season if the economy continues to improve. More importantly, a new U.S. television deal should be struck early next year. If the additional television revenue is pumped directly into the salary-cap number, the salary cap is expected to rise by at least $3.5-$4.5 million, since the new television deal should increase by at least $100 million a season.
http://espn.go.com/nhl/notebook//page/buccigrossmailbag_101026/debating-parise-semin-course-staches
First things first, if 56% of revenues go the the salary cap, then a new deal worth $100 million extra in TV is going to result in $56 million in extra cap space, or a little less than $2 million a team. Either the TV deal is quite a bit larger than that (I doubt it, but hope so), or Bucci didn’t bother to check his math.
"Essentially, all models are wrong, but some are useful" George E.P. Box
by Knee high to a duck on Oct 26, 2010 5:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Don’t forget the damn near guarantee that the players invoke the escalator.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
How much would the escalator be? Another $1.5-$2 per team?
Eat, drink, and be merry! And then drink some more.
That would be sweet. GMGM could extend Sloan for another 2-3 years.
I poured spot remover on my dog. Now he's gone.
by Rather Bengt on Oct 26, 2010 5:20 PM EDT up reply actions
A little more, if I understand it correctly. I think it raises the cap that would have been in place by 5%, so if we’re looking at ~55 million in “true” cap availability, then it’s around 2.75 mil per team.
I think the players are dumb for invoking escrow, it punishes everyone with a pre-existing contract in order to pay the free agents more. There’s a lot more salary in the existing contracts, do the agents get their cut pre-escrow? If so, there’s definitely a conflict of interest there.
"Essentially, all models are wrong, but some are useful" George E.P. Box
by Knee high to a duck on Oct 26, 2010 5:22 PM EDT up reply actions
So the escalator would be a percentage of the cap including whatever the tv rights bump it up to? Or a percentage of this year’s cap? Basically, would this new tv deal make the escalator clause escalate the cap even further than it would have without the new tv deal?
Eat, drink, and be merry! And then drink some more.
I think TV rights are included in the revenue, but we’re starting to venture far from any expertise I have. I’m going to defer to the accountants and lawyers (of which we have plenty) from this point.
"Essentially, all models are wrong, but some are useful" George E.P. Box
by Knee high to a duck on Oct 26, 2010 5:28 PM EDT up reply actions
You think? It feels like there’s a lot of backlash against escrow and the best way to dial down escrow is vote against the escalator.
"Essentially, all models are wrong, but some are useful" George E.P. Box
by Knee high to a duck on Oct 26, 2010 5:20 PM EDT up reply actions
The players got (very) roughly 1/2 their escrow withholdings (from last season) returned to them recently.
You perhaps knew me better as "Your Nation's Capital." Same great commentary, now with 100% more transparency!
Glad to hear that the revenue targets were conservative, rather than optimistic.
"Essentially, all models are wrong, but some are useful" George E.P. Box
by Knee high to a duck on Oct 26, 2010 5:29 PM EDT up reply actions
#danellisproblems
You perhaps knew me better as "Your Nation's Capital." Same great commentary, now with 100% more transparency!
by EmilyB on Oct 26, 2010 5:30 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
If I’m not mistaken, the escalator increases the cap over what it should be without the escalator, not what it was the previous year. So if they invoke the escalator, that alone shouldn’t cause it to increase over this year (in other words, if they don’t invoke the escalator, the cap may drop, but if they do, it shouldn’t rise)
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Oct 26, 2010 7:14 PM EDT up reply actions
If they land ESPN it’d be a safe bet it’d get bumped a million or so.
Human existence being an hallucination containing in itself the secondary hallucinations of day and night (the latter an insanitary condition of the atmosphere due to accretions of black air) it ill becomes any man of sense to be concerned at the illusory approach of the supreme hallucination known as death.
•The Caps currently have seven players nursing various injuries…
sigh. I miss Fedorov even more right now
So we could have eight players nursing injury?
'Cause the end of what it was is what it is right now...
by D'ohboy on Oct 26, 2010 7:33 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Yeah I’m not sure where Brain was going with this one…maybe the fact he could play any position sans keeper?
veteran experience on how to pop aspirin caps easily
Human existence being an hallucination containing in itself the secondary hallucinations of day and night (the latter an insanitary condition of the atmosphere due to accretions of black air) it ill becomes any man of sense to be concerned at the illusory approach of the supreme hallucination known as death.
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