Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Login-facebook
Around SBN: The Most Dangerous Division in Sports

Strictly for entertainment purposes only...

The Sports Junkies are at best novice hockey fans/Caps fans, this can not be denied. One Junkie in particular is enamored with sports gambling, Lurch Papa or also the "King of Ashburn". I was listening to them on the radio this morning as they were mostly making uninformed comments about the Caps, not egregious errors just minor ones, no biggie. Lurch is pondering betting on the Caps every game using the "Martingale Scheme". 

The Martingale Scheme says you bet a consistent amount every bet until you lose a bet, then you double your next bet until you make your money back. For example, you wager $20 dollars and win, you then wager another $20 and lose. Your next bet should be $40, to recoup your loss and win an additional $20. However, the dilemma occurs when you lose multiple games in a row, like 4 to 5, so your losses go from $20 to $40, $80, $160 and finally $320. Obviously this could all spiral out of control rather quickly and for those without a huge bankroll, you are cooked.

Martingale System description

They way it would have to work is by betting the "Money Line". The money line is amount you'd have to risk to win $100. For example, the Caps last night were an overwhelming favorite to win at home vs the Senators, thus in order to win $100, you'd have to risk $230 dollars.

Knowing this, and as a former gambler of sorts and very curious of the outcome, I put this theory into a spreadsheet using last seasons results. I fictitiously wagered $100 of every Caps game. If the Caps were to lose to lets say the Islanders at home @ -$240 to win $100, then -$240 would be the loss. I then would wager $240 + $100 the next game, repeating the same equation until a win wiped my balance clean. Here are the results.

 

Moneyline $
Thu Oct 1, 2009   Capitals    Bruins
7:00 PM FINAL WSH (4) - BOS (1)  120 100  $         120.00
Sat Oct 3, 2009  Maple Leafs  Capitals
7:00 PM FINAL TOR (4) - WSH (6)  -235 100  $         100.00
Tue Oct 6, 2009  Capitals  Flyers
7:00 PM FINAL WSH (5) - PHI (6) OT  135 135  $       (100.00)
Thu Oct 8, 2009  Rangers  Capitals
7:00 PM FINAL NYR (4) - WSH (3)  -175 200  $       (350.00)
Sat Oct 10, 2009  Capitals  Red Wings
7:00 PM FINAL WSH (2) - DET (3)  170 450  $       (450.00)
Mon Oct 12, 2009  Devils  Capitals
7:00 PM FINAL NJD (3) - WSH (2) SO  -145 1000  $   (1,450.00)
Thu Oct 15, 2009  Sharks  Capitals
7:00 PM FINAL SJS (1) - WSH (4)  -145 2450  $      2,450.00
Sat Oct 17, 2009  Predators  Capitals
7:00 PM FINAL NSH (2) - WSH (3) SO  -200 100  $         100.00
Thu Oct 22, 2009  Capitals  Thrashers
7:00 PM FINAL WSH (5) - ATL (4)  -120 100  $         100.00
Sat Oct 24, 2009  Capitals  Islanders
7:00 PM FINAL WSH (3) - NYI (2) OT  -145 100  $         100.00
Tue Oct 27, 2009  Flyers  Capitals
7:00 PM FINAL PHI (2) - WSH (4)  -165 100  $         100.00
Thu Oct 29, 2009  Capitals  Thrashers
7:00 PM FINAL WSH (4) - ATL (3)  -120 100  $         100.00
Fri Oct 30, 2009  Islanders  Capitals
7:00 PM FINAL NYI (4) - WSH (3) OT  -225 100  $       (225.00)
Nov-09
Date  Visitor  Home 
Sun Nov 1, 2009  Blue Jackets  Capitals
5:00 PM FINAL CBJ (5) - WSH (4) OT  -245 325  $       (796.25)
Wed Nov 4, 2009  Capitals  Devils
7:00 PM FINAL WSH (2) - NJD (3)  130 1121.25  $   (1,817.50)
Fri Nov 6, 2009  Capitals  Panthers
7:30 PM FINAL WSH (4) - FLA (1)  -145 2938.75  $      2,938.75
Sat Nov 7, 2009  Panthers  Capitals
7:00 PM FINAL FLA (4) - WSH (7)  -200 100  $         100.00
Wed Nov 11, 2009  Islanders  Capitals
7:00 PM FINAL NYI (4) - WSH (5) SO  -240 100  $         100.00
Fri Nov 13, 2009  Wild  Capitals
7:00 PM FINAL MIN (1) - WSH (3)  -185 100  $         100.00
Sat Nov 14, 2009  Capitals  Devils
7:00 PM FINAL WSH (2) - NJD (5)  130 100  $       (100.00)
Tue Nov 17, 2009  Capitals  Rangers
7:00 PM FINAL WSH (4) - NYR (2)  -110 200  $         200.00
Fri Nov 20, 2009  Canadiens  Capitals
7:00 PM FINAL MTL (3) - WSH (2)  -165 100  $       (165.00)
Sat Nov 21, 2009  Capitals  Maple Leafs
7:00 PM FINAL WSH (1) - TOR (2) SO  -150 265  $       (397.50)
Mon Nov 23, 2009  Capitals  Senators
7:30 PM FINAL WSH (3) - OTT (4) OT  100 662.5  $       (662.50)
Wed Nov 25, 2009  Sabres  Capitals
7:00 PM FINAL BUF (0) - WSH (2)  -150 1225  $      1,225.00
Sat Nov 28, 2009  Capitals  Canadiens
7:00 PM FINAL WSH (4) - MTL (3) SO  110 100  $         110.00
Mon Nov 30, 2009  Capitals  Hurricanes
7:00 PM FINAL WSH (3) - CAR (2)  -110 100  $         100.00
Dec-09
Date  Visitor  Home 
Thu Dec 3, 2009  Panthers  Capitals
7:00 PM FINAL FLA (2) - WSH (6)  -220 100  $         100.00
Sat Dec 5, 2009  Capitals  Flyers
7:00 PM FINAL WSH (8) - PHI (2)  130 100  $         130.00
Mon Dec 7, 2009  Capitals  Lightning
7:30 PM FINAL WSH (3) - TBL (0)  -110 100  $         100.00
Wed Dec 9, 2009  Capitals  Sabres
7:00 PM FINAL WSH (0) - BUF (3)  125 100  $       (100.00)
Fri Dec 11, 2009  Hurricanes  Capitals
7:00 PM FINAL CAR (3) - WSH (4) OT  -200 200  $         200.00
Sat Dec 12, 2009  Capitals  Maple Leafs
7:00 PM FINAL WSH (3) - TOR (6)  -145 100  $       (145.00)
Tue Dec 15, 2009  Capitals  Avalanche
9:30 PM FINAL WSH (6) - COL (1)  -110 245  $         245.00
Fri Dec 18, 2009  Capitals  Canucks
10:00 PM FINAL WSH (2) - VAN (3)  150 100  $       (100.00)
Sat Dec 19, 2009  Capitals  Oilers
10:00 PM FINAL WSH (4) - EDM (2)  -135 200  $         200.00
Wed Dec 23, 2009  Sabres  Capitals
7:00 PM FINAL BUF (2) - WSH (5)  -160 100  $         100.00
Sat Dec 26, 2009  Devils  Capitals
7:00 PM FINAL NJD (1) - WSH (4)  -145 100  $         100.00
Mon Dec 28, 2009  Hurricanes  Capitals
7:00 PM FINAL CAR (6) - WSH (3)  -200 100  $       (200.00)
Wed Dec 30, 2009  Capitals  Sharks
10:00 PM FINAL WSH (2) - SJS (5)  -125 200  $       (250.00)
Jan-10
Date  Visitor  Home 
Sat Jan 2, 2010  Capitals  Kings
4:00 PM FINAL WSH (1) - LAK (2)  140 550  $       (550.00)
Tue Jan 5, 2010  Canadiens  Capitals
7:00 PM FINAL MTL (2) - WSH (4)  -165 1000  $      1,000.00
Thu Jan 7, 2010  Senators  Capitals
7:00 PM FINAL OTT (2) - WSH (5)  -200 100  $         100.00
Sat Jan 9, 2010  Capitals  Thrashers
7:00 PM FINAL WSH (8) - ATL (1)  -110 100  $         100.00
Tue Jan 12, 2010  Capitals  Lightning
7:30 PM FINAL WSH (4) - TBL (7)  -110 100  $       (110.00)
Wed Jan 13, 2010  Capitals  Panthers
7:30 PM FINAL WSH (5) - FLA (4) SO  -120 210  $         210.00
Fri Jan 15, 2010  Maple Leafs  Capitals
7:00 PM FINAL TOR (1) - WSH (6)  -250 100  $         100.00
Sun Jan 17, 2010  Flyers  Capitals
3:00 PM FINAL PHI (3) - WSH (5)  -150 100  $         100.00
Tue Jan 19, 2010  Red Wings  Capitals
7:00 PM FINAL DET (2) - WSH (3)  -125 100  $         100.00
Thu Jan 21, 2010  Capitals  Penguins
7:30 PM FINAL WSH (6) - PIT (3)  150 100  $         150.00
Sat Jan 23, 2010  Coyotes  Capitals
7:00 PM FINAL PHX (2) - WSH (4)  -175 100  $         100.00
Tue Jan 26, 2010  Capitals  Islanders
7:00 PM FINAL WSH (7) - NYI (2)  -145 100  $         100.00
Wed Jan 27, 2010  Ducks  Capitals
7:00 PM FINAL ANA (1) - WSH (5)  -175 100  $         100.00
Fri Jan 29, 2010  Panthers  Capitals
7:00 PM FINAL FLA (1) - WSH (4)  -125 100  $         100.00
Sun Jan 31, 2010  Lightning  Capitals
3:00 PM FINAL TBL (2) - WSH (3)  -200 100  $         100.00
Feb-10
Date  Visitor  Home 
Tue Feb 2, 2010  Capitals  Bruins
7:00 PM FINAL WSH (4) - BOS (1)  125 100  $         125.00
Thu Feb 4, 2010  Capitals  Rangers
7:00 PM FINAL WSH (6) - NYR (5)  110 100  $         110.00
Fri Feb 5, 2010  Thrashers  Capitals
7:00 PM FINAL ATL (2) - WSH (5)  -200 100  $         100.00
Sun Feb 7, 2010  Penguins  Capitals
12:00 PM FINAL PIT (4) - WSH (5) OT  -130 100  $         100.00
Wed Feb 10, 2010  Capitals  Canadiens
7:30 PM FINAL WSH (5) - MTL (6) OT  130 100  $         100.00
Thu Feb 11, 2010  Capitals  Senators
7:00 PM FINAL WSH (5) - OTT (6)  -125 100  $       (125.00)
Sat Feb 13, 2010  Capitals  Blues
8:00 PM FINAL WSH (3) - STL (4) SO  130 225  $       (225.00)
Mar-10
Date  Visitor  Home 
Wed Mar 3, 2010  Capitals  Sabres
7:00 PM FINAL WSH (3) - BUF (1)  140 450  $         450.00
Thu Mar 4, 2010  Lightning  Capitals
7:00 PM FINAL TBL (4) - WSH (5)  -200 100  $         100.00
Sat Mar 6, 2010  Rangers  Capitals
7:00 PM FINAL NYR (0) - WSH (2)  -175 100  $         100.00
Mon Mar 8, 2010  Stars  Capitals
7:00 PM FINAL DAL (4) - WSH (3) SO  -165 100  $       (165.00)
Wed Mar 10, 2010  Hurricanes  Capitals
7:00 PM FINAL CAR (3) - WSH (4) OT  -200 265  $         265.00
Fri Mar 12, 2010  Lightning  Capitals
7:00 PM FINAL TBL (3) - WSH (2)  -200 100  $       (200.00)
Sun Mar 14, 2010  Capitals  Blackhawks
12:30 PM FINAL WSH (4) - CHI (3) OT  150 300  $         300.00
Tue Mar 16, 2010  Capitals  Panthers
7:30 PM FINAL WSH (7) - FLA (3)  -150 100  $         100.00
Thu Mar 18, 2010  Capitals  Hurricanes
7:00 PM FINAL WSH (3) - CAR (4) OT  -110 100  $       (110.00)
Sat Mar 20, 2010  Capitals  Lightning
7:30 PM FINAL WSH (3) - TBL (1)  -110 210  $         210.00
Wed Mar 24, 2010  Penguins  Capitals
7:00 PM FINAL PIT (3) - WSH (4) SO  -135 100  $         100.00
Thu Mar 25, 2010  Capitals  Hurricanes
7:00 PM FINAL WSH (2) - CAR (3) SO  -110 100  $       (110.00)
Sun Mar 28, 2010  Flames  Capitals
3:00 PM FINAL CGY (5) - WSH (3)  -165 210  $       (346.50)
Tue Mar 30, 2010  Senators  Capitals
7:00 PM FINAL OTT (5) - WSH (4) OT  -200 556.5  $   (1,113.00)
Apr-10
Date  Visitor  Home 
Thu Apr 1, 2010  Thrashers  Capitals
7:00 PM FINAL ATL (1) - WSH (2)  -200 1213  $      1,213.00
Sat Apr 3, 2010  Capitals  Blue Jackets
7:00 PM FINAL WSH (3) - CBJ (2)  100 100  $         100.00
Mon Apr 5, 2010  Bruins  Capitals
7:00 PM FINAL BOS (2) - WSH (3) OT  -155 100  $         100.00
Tue Apr 6, 2010  Capitals  Penguins
7:30 PM FINAL WSH (6) - PIT (3)  150 100  $         150.00
Fri Apr 9, 2010  Thrashers  Capitals
7:00 PM FINAL ATL (2) - WSH (5)  -200 100  $         100.00
Sun Apr 11, 2010  Bruins  Capitals
12:00 PM FINAL BOS (4) - WSH (3) SO  -155 100  $       (155.00)
 $      4,883.50

Star-divide

Not too shabby, if you can afford the risk.

If this FanPost is written by someone other than one of the blog's editors, the opinions expressed in it do not necessarily reflect those of this blog or SB Nation.

Comment 20 comments  |  1 recs  | 

Do you like this story?

Comments

Display:

Interesting exercise. I wonder how it would work with a team that didn’t win so many games.

If anyone is contemplating actually trying this, it’s all fun and games until you’re betting $2,450 on the Caps to beat the Sharks seven games into the regular season (if I’m reading that right)

by grapejoos on Oct 12, 2010 5:02 PM EDT reply actions  

PSA - DO NOT DO THIS

Check your “spam” box in your email. I bet you if you actually looked through the whole thing you’d find an email outlining this strategy and telling you “not to tell anyone! ok, maybe just your best friends. and use LOLcasino.com, because it has the coolest site!”

Here’s how to disprove this age-old gambling “strategy”:

In theory, with infinite money to wager, this actually works. The key word here is infinite. But no one has infinite money (infinite is not something that exists in the world as we know it when describing objects) and here is where is breaks down. All you are doing is making a series of UNCONNECTED wagers. Despite your strategy, each wager’s outcome is completely causally unrelated to each other wager’s outcome. And each you place a bet, you have a negative expected value on that bet. IE

Caps play Pens in Pitt. In the real world there is a 50% chance we win, and a 50% chance they win. In the gambling world, if you bet 100 bucks, you aren’t going to win 100 bucks… you’ll only win 90. This is how the house make money.

The moral of the story is, every time you bet on sports, (assuming the line is correct!), you have a negative expected value. If you play this strategy with a non-infinite amount of money, you are guaranteed to have a negative EV over all of your possible outcomes. Sure, you are likely to win a very small amount a lot of the time, but you are also likely to lose your entire bankroll (which for this game is usually extremely large compared to the amount you’re hoping to win) a small amount of the time.

In short, dear god, please don’t do this!

What is interesting (and awesome!) about the Caps and the games listed above, and why the bottom line was so juicy… was that the Caps were undervalued for much of last season, and often outperformed the lines on the games. This is a totally awesome reason to gamble (reasonable amounts :D).

A much better idea would be to take X dollars you know you want to gamble throughout the season, then bet no more than X/10 on any single game. But pick the ones where you think there are some factors that the line isn’t considering. IE we’ve looked really focused on this road trip, you think their goalie is overrated, etc etc.

This will be a much more fun, and in the end, a more profitable way (considering every possible outcome) to gamble on the Caps.

by Bushwood Bushwhacker on Oct 12, 2010 5:32 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

For more in this vein:

Gambler’s Ruin

"Essentially, all models are wrong, but some are useful" George E.P. Box

by Knee high to a duck on Oct 12, 2010 9:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

Caps play Pens in Pitt. In the real world there is a 50% chance we win, and a 50% chance they win. In the gambling world, if you bet 100 bucks, you aren’t going to win 100 bucks… you’ll only win 90. This is how the house make money.

There isn’t a 50/50 shot of either team winning the game. Unlike casino games, the true probability is unknown. Given the $100/$90 scenario you mentioned, if the true odds of a Capitals win were say 55% rather than 50%, there is actually a positive EV on the wager. If a person could be consistently accurate with their estimated probabilities, they could potentially make only positive EV bets. Has nothing to do with the martingale system suggested, but it’s the reason why gamblers will pay for picking services. House doesn’t automatically win on every sports bet like they do with every casino bet.

by psuscott1 on Oct 13, 2010 1:22 AM EDT up reply actions  

but it’s the reason why gamblers will pay for picking services

Actually the reasons are, in order: desperation, stupidity and greed.

Choking since 1985.

by macvechkin on Oct 13, 2010 11:23 AM EDT up reply actions  

I thought it would be obvious that I wasn’t declaring a WSH at PIT game to always be 50/50… it was just an example.

by Bushwood Bushwhacker on Oct 13, 2010 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

Another way to skin a cat

A fan for the Pittsburgh Pirates bet $20 against his team on the money line for all 162 games and netted a 10% return.

http://www.businessinsider.com/pirates-fan-discovers-cure-for-rooting-for-crappy-team-bet-against-them-a-lot-2010-10

So, using the data from JSchon, I did the opposite and bet $20 on the Caps to win.

Over 82 games, the Caps won 54 times and lost 38. Betting $20 a game, the theoretical bettor had at stake a total of $1640 and netted $270.70, for a return of 16.5%. That’s not bad at all.

by Joran on Oct 12, 2010 5:37 PM EDT reply actions  

The flaw with this is that you could only bet the money line for a straight up win scenario. So betting $20 for the Caps to win against the Panthers at home and losing would cost you over $40.

The spread is where you’d lose only your wager + 5% to 10%, but you’d have to win by 2 goals typically since most lines are at 1.5 goals.

4th Floor, is next, swimvare, undervare, Eric Fehr...

by JSchon on Oct 12, 2010 10:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

I mean he bet $20 on the money line regardless of the odds, so his exposure was very limited.

In our Capitals case, the worst money line was -250 against the Toronto Maple Leafs, where the theoretical bet was $20 and the possible payout was $8.

Even with those crappy payouts, the Caps would have earned the bettor 16.5% return on investment. Of course, that ROI required a historical season by the Caps, one that likely will not be repeated this year.

I have the spreadsheet if you’re interested in taking a look and verifying the numbers.

by Joran on Oct 13, 2010 12:06 AM EDT up reply actions  

i love how you say “you are cooked.”

so very sports junkies. :)

by Natty Bumppo on Oct 12, 2010 9:23 PM EDT reply actions  

Another form of gambling...

Are hockey middles. You would need two betting sites that have hockey over/unders. Occasionally you’ll find the two sites having a 1 goal difference in the O/U in a particular game, for example, 6.5 and 5.5. These are the only games in which you could bet on. In these cases you would bet under 6.5 and over 5.5 the same amounts, hoping the actually scores lands at 6, thus winning you both bets. The worst case scenario in that you would owe the juice on one of the bets.

4th Floor, is next, swimvare, undervare, Eric Fehr...

by JSchon on Oct 12, 2010 10:42 PM EDT reply actions  

You aren’t going to find very many hockey totals where there is a full goal spread across the books. A half goal maybe, or more likely you will find two sides where the odds are in your favor at opposite lines.

Choking since 1985.

by macvechkin on Oct 13, 2010 11:20 AM EDT up reply actions  

True, and I’ve never done this. I did have a friend that did attempt to do this many many years ago and ended up only being able to bet a few games a week.

4th Floor, is next, swimvare, undervare, Eric Fehr...

by JSchon on Oct 13, 2010 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

I usually would just put up $5 and try to parlay four or five games. If I lost, it’s only $5 and if I won, it’s like $70-$120 depending on which teams were involved.

FREE MP

by jordanDC on Oct 13, 2010 8:12 AM EDT reply actions  

Also a fun way to gamble… :)

by Bushwood Bushwhacker on Oct 13, 2010 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

I did that tonight with WAS, PIT ,NJD and CHI

4th Floor, is next, swimvare, undervare, Eric Fehr...

by JSchon on Oct 13, 2010 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

Hockey betting was ruined

By the shootout. Now the only way to survive is finding dogs as favorites are pretty jacked up since there is no longer a point to laying a half goal.

Another possibility is laying the puck line at -1.5 but that has long stretches of being extremely painful – i.e. favorites either losing or winning by 1 or in OT.

Caps are as good a team as any to lay the puck line. They’d only be 1-2 this season but they have been + odds every game.

Choking since 1985.

by macvechkin on Oct 13, 2010 11:16 AM EDT reply actions  

I love empty net insurance goals.

FREE MP

by jordanDC on Oct 13, 2010 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

One request. Please put a jump in the top of our FanPost, for those of us who browse on the mobile device; the whole fanpost shows up and it takes forever and a day to scroll past.

"Essentially, all models are wrong, but some are useful" George E.P. Box

by Knee high to a duck on Oct 13, 2010 9:41 PM EDT reply actions  

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

A Washington Capitals blog from the most powerful city in the world

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recent FanPosts

Small
Washington Capitals Contract & Draft Info. - 2012 Offseason
Monkey_small
Collecting on that 2nd Rounder for Varlamov
File3551291133107_small
Let's Show Some Love for the Captain
Puck_bunny_by_qwerty3png_small
Pledge Drive 2011-2012 Wrap up
2438624750100337552s425x425q85_small
Offseason moves?
Gould_small
I'm Proud of the Washington Capitals
Me_and_a_late_friend_small
Round 2 Bold Predictions: Let's Review!
Jp_avatar_2_small
Braden Holtby's Family Gets More Interesting By The Minute
Hockeyjerseys1-99_small
Win Tonight
N1230931879_30909553_5511_small
Alex Semin: Gettin' Paid (With Fancy Charts!)

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >

FanShots

Quick hits of video, photos, quotes, chats, links and lists that you find around the web.

Recent FanShots

OT Hockey 5/25
Will lack of national discussion cause NBA, NHL playoffs to suffer?
OT Hockey 5/23
Caps Signed Hockey Sticks
Dean Evason talks wristers in the May 28, 2012 issue of ESPN The Mag. (Click here for a larger version)
Semin's Agent Says Sasha's Uninterested in Staying
"My legs felt good and I wanted to be dangerous with the puck every time,"...
Oh well. Season's over... (via Mr. I, via @bruce_arthur)
NYC game 7 viewing
Game 7 in Manila?

+ New FanShot All FanShots >

More great SB Nation Blogs

The Vault

Guidelines_medium Cap_side2_medium Draft_side2_medium Exchange_medium Cba_side2_medium Rules_side32_medium


Managing Editor

Jp_avatar_2_small J.P.

Associate Editors

Witt_small David Getz

At_kettler_small Becca H

Avatar_small Kareem E.

Golf_murphy_small Rob Parker

Ad34hihocwl0x15cmoubvuxdb-ehczsv8ag3k6qkujpodapllokm7crajbsbss2axbdk11fp2iur8jkoxdxmitirvrgrctxufboskj7xu4bwhtulx7o19cm_small Stephen Pepper

Captain-c_small EmilyB

Contributors

Ov_avatar_small tuvanhillbilly

Moderators

600full-fear-and-loathing-in-las-vegas-screenshot_small Bald Pollack

Gould_small Gould Old Days

79c29_small Knee high to a duck

4140101486_small Rink Moderators