Monday Caps Clips: Sens @ Caps Game Day
by J.P. on Oct 11, 2010 6:33 AM EDT
in Caps Clips
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PrintYour savory breakfast links:
- Previews of tonight's tangle with the Sens from Vogs, NHL.com, Peerless, LIR and RLS, and be sure to check out our SB Nation partner Silver Seven for coverage from the other side of tonight's match up.
- A reality check on Marcus Johansson (and the Caps' other kids) and expectations (featuring a MoJo/Wayne Gretzky comparison). [El-Bashir]
- John Carlson's goal on Saturday night was officially scored as unassisted, but perhaps one should be added... for you. [Fire & Ice]
- AO also credits the red-rockin' home crowd. [Alex Ovetjkin]
- Still more on Saturday night's crowd... [CI]
- ... and more on Carlson. [New England Hockey Journal, OFB, TBD]
- Mike Green's second NHL fight was... something. [RMNB]
- As for the fight that wasn't, Pierre-Luc Letourneau-Leblond got part of what's coming to him when the League suspended him for one game. (He'll get the rest of it, presumably, when D.J. King next takes the ice at the same time as PL3.) [CI]
- On Michal Neuvirth and the ice that runs through his veins. [Blonde Girl's Guide]
- Chatting with Semyon Varlamov. [From Russia With Glove]
- Looking ahead at the first full week of the season. [CK]
- This year's schedule magnet (which would make a fine desktop background). [Capitals Outsider]
- Redskins cornerback DeAngelo Hall throws some love AO's way. [TwitPic]
- Previewing the Bears' season. [HF]
- Speaking of the Bears, Hershey got a goal from #10 on 10-10-10 for their first win of the season. [Leone]
- Finally, happy 44th birthday to Shawn Chambers.
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How typical of Hall, he can only touch them when they’re standing still.
A very misguided piece on Huffington Post recently called 30 Rock the most racist show on television thanks to Tracy Morgan’s wild, manic, madcap performance. Tonight illustrated why whoever wrote that piece is full of shit and should be punched in the face until he has a more nuanced grasp on comedy.
by Bald Pollack on Oct 11, 2010 7:41 AM EDT reply actions 2 recs
I know this isn’t the place to talk skins, but that’s an unfair comment about DHall. Have you seen him play this year? He’s like a new man compared to last year, making a lot of tackles, pass breakups and INTs. In the game yesterday he had a nice open field tackle on a player that otherwise would of have a huge gain.
by vtcapsfan99 on Oct 11, 2010 10:16 AM EDT up reply actions
I’m only in it for the snark; I don’t have a horse in the Skins race.
A very misguided piece on Huffington Post recently called 30 Rock the most racist show on television thanks to Tracy Morgan’s wild, manic, madcap performance. Tonight illustrated why whoever wrote that piece is full of shit and should be punched in the face until he has a more nuanced grasp on comedy.
by Bald Pollack on Oct 11, 2010 10:19 AM EDT up reply actions
ok, gotcha, but usually snark is funnier if it has an element of truth. Like mocking Carlos Roger’s inability to catch interceptions or DHall’s poor tackling last season. Or Ovie’s interesting sense of style.
by vtcapsfan99 on Oct 11, 2010 10:21 AM EDT up reply actions
Cripes.
A very misguided piece on Huffington Post recently called 30 Rock the most racist show on television thanks to Tracy Morgan’s wild, manic, madcap performance. Tonight illustrated why whoever wrote that piece is full of shit and should be punched in the face until he has a more nuanced grasp on comedy.
by Bald Pollack on Oct 11, 2010 10:25 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
well I was attempting to make a joke about Ovie, I guess it wasn’t very obvious. Sorry to clutter the thread with non hockey talk.
by vtcapsfan99 on Oct 11, 2010 10:35 AM EDT up reply actions
Nah, if Bald Pallack can make a non-hockey comment on D Hall, you are entitled to make a non-hockey comment defending him. (I agree with your comments by the way.)
It’s. A. Joke.
A very misguided piece on Huffington Post recently called 30 Rock the most racist show on television thanks to Tracy Morgan’s wild, manic, madcap performance. Tonight illustrated why whoever wrote that piece is full of shit and should be punched in the face until he has a more nuanced grasp on comedy.
by Bald Pollack on Oct 11, 2010 11:13 AM EDT up reply actions
I loved the killer instinct the Caps had last night. They were relentless and there was nothing the Devils could have done about it. Even the fighting backfired. After 2 bouts sandwiched around an impromptu paired figure skating routine featuring $12,000,000 in NHL salaries, the wheels completely came off for NJ. Bradley dropped Clarkson like 3rd period french. And then PLLL embarrassed himself, his coach, and his team, with his Todd Bertuzzi-esque series of cheap shots on MJ90.
And BB did a great job in the presser! He let Maclean have it without been nasty, gave the new coach a little dignity (probably more than the jerk deserved). And followed it up by subtly letting everybody know there’s a world of difference between talking to the media about handling the team and how he actually treats the players privately. “[Ovi] was sorta the star of the video this morning and he’s got so much pride I knew he would play good tonight.” Gabby can’t handle the superstars my wet bottom!
Country Gentlemen's Pig Fertilizer Gazette
Dunny-on-the-World
They did a good job keeping the pressure on, but the game was pretty even until AO did his thing. The injuries and short bench really showed in the third period, I think.
"Essentially, all models are wrong, but some are useful" George E.P. Box
by Knee high to a duck on Oct 11, 2010 9:30 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
NJD outshot the Caps something like 17 – 8 in the second. Without some solid play by Neuvy, that one could have gotten ugly befpre AO busted out his superhero routine.
Agree that the short bench was a significant factor.
Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?
It seems that I somehow implied that they were relentless for 60 minutes, I didn’t mean to do that. I meant that unlike the past 2 seasons, they didn’t cough up the lead, and stroll thru the end of the game wining 7-4 or 7-5. The Caps choked the will out of New Jersey and never let go of the hold once they got the lead. That was a very different result than nearly every big lead they’ve had in recent memory.
That might also be why it appeared I was arguing the game was uneven. Again, my omitting that info wasn’t meant to imply total dominance, it’s just I was only complimenting them on how they played with the lead. Not how they played the whole game.
Side bar/ As for Neuvy playing great, I don’t understand why that often gets a negative spin. (not so much in this sub-thread but in others it’s often more directly argued) It seems as if a Caps goalie should never have to play really well, but the opposition’s D should never take any flack because the Caps have such good forwards. Aren’t other teams ALLOWED to have talent up front? The Caps D are getting more comfortable. 2nd and 3rd pairings got better every shift after the 2-2 tie. And NJ doesn’t suck, regardless of the score Saturday night. Their lines are talented, and are going to get opportunities. The Caps D isn’t top 5 in the NHL and that isn’t a surprise, so shouldn’t fans expect a 2 time Calder Cup winning goalie to have to keep the Caps in a game against talented offensive lines?
Country Gentlemen's Pig Fertilizer Gazette
Dunny-on-the-World
The Caps choked the will out of New Jersey and never let go of the hold once they got the lead. That was a very different result than nearly every big lead they’ve had in recent memory.
This is a Huge Point to me, and too often lost behind theology about ‘crease-clearing contracts’ and ‘suspect G’. Last year’s Caps wanted the W, which is nice. For big tin, they have to want [your] ftoreking scalp. That would be a much bigger improvement than Willie Mitchell, in my book.
There's no 'i' in "team". But there's a 'nap' in "champion".
Oh, my fantasy team and I sure as hell hope so.
by DrinkingPartner on Oct 11, 2010 9:33 AM EDT up reply actions
Fill in the blanks
Mike Green’s second NHL fight was…
- Awkward
- Hilarious
- Confusing
- Embarrassing
- Ill-fated
- Ill-advised
- … Something
"Do not be afraid to ask for credit, for our way of refusing is very polite."
by Laich It Or Lump It on Oct 11, 2010 8:21 AM EDT reply actions
Also, the picture of a stern-faced Pat Sajak is well worth the click for the RMNB article.
"Do not be afraid to ask for credit, for our way of refusing is very polite."
by Laich It Or Lump It on Oct 11, 2010 8:22 AM EDT up reply actions
Great shot of a celebrity caught up in the moment….
Washington Capitals 2009-10 = Quebec Nordiques 1994-95
--- D'ohboy
by MikeL-Pivonka on Oct 11, 2010 9:05 AM EDT up reply actions
?
A very misguided piece on Huffington Post recently called 30 Rock the most racist show on television thanks to Tracy Morgan’s wild, manic, madcap performance. Tonight illustrated why whoever wrote that piece is full of shit and should be punched in the face until he has a more nuanced grasp on comedy.
by Bald Pollack on Oct 11, 2010 8:25 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Nah man, that’s how it happens on the streets.
by DrinkingPartner on Oct 11, 2010 9:10 AM EDT up reply actions
Can we pick “All of the Above”?
Washington Capitals 2009-10 = Quebec Nordiques 1994-95
--- D'ohboy
by MikeL-Pivonka on Oct 11, 2010 9:06 AM EDT up reply actions
- fanciful impish
-
- neat-o not what they teach at Kronk Gym
-
If you've read this far...seek help.
Isn’t Green into the mixed martial arts stuff? Guess its hard to do that stuff on skates anyways.
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
by twistedlogic on Oct 11, 2010 10:12 AM EDT up reply actions
I’m into racing but I’m never going to drive as well as Raikkonen.
Human existence being an hallucination containing in itself the secondary hallucinations of day and night (the latter an insanitary condition of the atmosphere due to accretions of black air) it ill becomes any man of sense to be concerned at the illusory approach of the supreme hallucination known as death.
Sarcasm is really helpful ;)
Pretty sure its a bit easier (and less expensive) to practice MMA than F1 racing.
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
by twistedlogic on Oct 11, 2010 10:58 AM EDT up reply actions
He, some other Caps, and Chris Cooley went to an MMA fight a while back. I guess he wasn’t exactly taking notes.
"Do not be afraid to ask for credit, for our way of refusing is very polite."
by Laich It Or Lump It on Oct 11, 2010 11:12 AM EDT up reply actions
Lucky for him, neither was Kovalchuk.
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
by twistedlogic on Oct 11, 2010 11:18 AM EDT up reply actions
Steinberg did a great screen-shot re-cap on Green’s MMA-esque match with Bobby Ryan last season. And I love #12 in the recap.
Pledge Drive 2010-2011: SO KIDS CAN!! Help build a playground
I gave a second thought to my posts from last night regarding the Devils cap situation, and I think that what I have a problem with isn’t them being screwed due to PL3’s ass-hattery, it’s because really they’re screwed because of injuries. I think if a player’s hurt, they should be able to replace them due to that, and since they have two? /shrug. I’m not an economist and never will be.
"Don't mind WM...he's an all-around jerk."
The injuries are, frankly, screwing them more than PL3’s bad behavior. If I were the Devils, I’d have second (and third) thoughts about having a guy like him on the roster, given they can’t have hardly any extras. In this day and age with a hard salary cap, using up a roster spot for a goon who plays on 4 minutes a night, is an unaffordable luxury. And that goes more for the Devils who are short of players as it is.
Rocking the Red since 1975
Well, they CAN replace the guys on LTIR – I don’t think there needs to be a loophole in the cap that allows for replacement players for guys who are really just day-to-day, that can lead to teams taking advantage of the situation and sitting guys who are “injured” just to make room. If the only way they get cap relief is by putting a guy on LTIR, meaning they can’t just recall him right after, it makes them have to think about it a bit more.
And the reality is that most teams manage their cap well enough – and should manage their cap well enough – that they at least have enough cap space to make a recall if needed.
Honestly I don’t feel bad for NJ in the least. They got themselves into this mess and didn’t think about what would happen should guys get injured. Bad luck, sure, but they shouldn’t be in such a position where a little streak of bad luck leaves them w/ essentially 16 players for a game. Absolutely ridiculous. I’d be pissed if I were a Devils fan.
If anyone needs me, I'll be at Kettler.
by Becca H on Oct 11, 2010 8:50 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
I don’t feel bad for them because they’re New Jersey, I feel bad for them because of a situation where they can’t dress a full squad that’s out of the team’s direct control. If it was JUST Leblond, I wouldn’t say that, but because of injuries? It’s basically waving a big stick saying “THESE ARE THE RULLLLLES.”
"Don't mind WM...he's an all-around jerk."
Right, but these ARE the rules. And if they were to create a way around them it would lead to more abuse then there is already – lots of guys being “injured” to create cap space instead of just being scratched, things like that.
And every team gets a copy of the rules, it’s not like the Devils were surprised to learn they couldn’t replace Volchenkov and/or Rolston just because they’re DTD. Most teams know they need to leave a little wiggle room (unless it’s the playoffs) to make sure they have options in case of injuries. Lamoriello’s a moron.
If anyone needs me, I'll be at Kettler.
Injuries are pretty unforeseeable in NHL hockey. How was Lou supposed to know he’d need more than 20 guys to get through a season?
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
by Rob Parker on Oct 11, 2010 10:45 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
I know, it’s madness. To think you need a full 4 lines, 3 D pairs, 2 goalies AND a warm body or two in case of those oh-so-rare injuries that never, ever happen in the NHL…
If anyone needs me, I'll be at Kettler.
Those aren’t injuries, they’re “ouchies.”
You perhaps knew me better as "Your Nation's Capital." Same great commentary, now with 100% more transparency!
by EmilyB on Oct 11, 2010 11:01 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I tried to read through this thread, I missed the discussion over the weekend.
The cap situation does have NJ in a jam, like it was for a bit with Calgary a couple of seasons ago (later in the season.) And I don’t think anyone should feel bad for them. At the same time, I don’t have an issue with what has happened since the Kovalchuk contract rejection, more so the older moves are the ones at issue.
For example, I am not a fan of how many NTCs and NMCs Lamoriello has handed out, at the same time. Not a fan of the structure of Hedberg’s contract, it should include more in the bonus less as base salary.
The extra cap hit between the two Kovalchuk contracts is a player. I believe he planned to go into the season with 21 players, not 20.
As it relates to the camp decision to go in with a 20 player roster. Here’s my take. If Lamorielo tried to make a trade and no GM was interested given their knowledge of NJs cap situation and assuming a player would be available on waivers, then the right decision was made to keep the roster as is. The other issue is NJ can’t really take a bad contract back due to the cap situation and as we’ve seen that’s often what happens in trades these days.
I see no reason to place a contributing player on waivers until the moment when one has to do so. If the team plays with 19 skaters for one game as a result so be it. Leblond as people have noted is of little loss especially for one game. If they have to go with 18 skaters for 1 game not a huge deal as well. If it goes on for an extended period of time then it is an issue.
The injuries to Salvador (LTIR), Volchenkov and Rolston are examples of why you don’t place a player who can contribute and fits under the cap on waivers until one has to, as an injury to a player can happen at any time. What if Volchenkov’s injury was more serious and he was going to be on LTIR; not saying that is the case, just using it as an example. Zubrus and Salvador are the two players without NTCs who get mentioned most often in terms of ways to make room under the cap for the Devils; White with an NTC has been mentioned as well. For an example, if they had placed Zubrus on waivers at the end of camp and then Rolston’s injury was more serious and was on LTIR they would have lost a player for no reason.
I am impressed for all the knocks on the guy and jam jokes, etc., how he treats many of the players and coaches who have been loyal. It has resulted in both good and bad management related to the cap for the NJD organization.
For example, the Devils could have chosen not to buyout Pandolfo. If they had kept him on the roster and done a ‘Redden/Souray/Nylander’ type transaction waiving him to the minors, Pandolfo would not count against the cap; instead he counts $833,333 this season and next and still didn’t find an NHL job. Not good cap management, but it was a people management move given the player’s history with the organization.
by sk84fun_dc on Oct 11, 2010 10:15 AM EDT up reply actions 5 recs
Nicely put as usual.
A very misguided piece on Huffington Post recently called 30 Rock the most racist show on television thanks to Tracy Morgan’s wild, manic, madcap performance. Tonight illustrated why whoever wrote that piece is full of shit and should be punched in the face until he has a more nuanced grasp on comedy.
by Bald Pollack on Oct 11, 2010 10:20 AM EDT up reply actions
Thanks, I just re-read it and saw a few typos, oops, Lamoriello with two L’s, for example; also, I switched partway through my example from Volchenkov’s injury to Rolston’s. My point remains the same as it relates to the late camp decision to go with 20 players. I believe Lamoriello was trying to trade a player, but as I stated, if a trade didn’t materialize why waive a player until one is forced to do so if they can contribute until that time.
Do I approve of all the moves over the last several seasons that led to this situation, no, but some are more explainable than others.
Well written post sk8.
A clear conscience is usually the sign of a bad memory
by Rather Bengt on Oct 11, 2010 2:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, they CAN replace the guys on LTIR – I don’t think there needs to be a loophole in the cap that allows for replacement players for guys who are really just day-to-day, that can lead to teams taking advantage of the situation and sitting guys who are "injured" just to make room. If the only way they get cap relief is by putting a guy on LTIR, meaning they can’t just recall him right after, it makes them have to think about it a bit more.
And the reality is that most teams manage their cap well enough – and should manage their cap well enough – that they at least have enough cap space to make a recall if needed.
Honestly I don’t feel bad for NJ in the least.
Organizations that live in glass houses (Nylander, Pothier, Clark, etc.) should not throw stones with regard to creative cap management.
'Cause the end of what it was is what it is right now...
by D'ohboy on Oct 11, 2010 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I’m not sure what your point is. The Caps have some bad contracts, as almost every team does, but the Caps haven’t had to dress 15 guys because of that. I’d say the Devils are pretty clearly in a whole different stratosphere when it comes to cap hell.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
Exactly. In hindsight those deals aren’t great, but none of them prevented us from putting a full 23 guys in the building, whether on the ice or in the press box, every night. They never prevented us from bringing guys up to replace injured players, either. Was it always the best team possible because of deals like that? Of course not, but that’s what the salary cap does – sometimes you have to make a compromise.
15 guys. Amazing. There is just no comparison to anything the Caps have ever done, or most teams for that matter.
If anyone needs me, I'll be at Kettler.
I am amazed at that myself. Ouch!
And what’s going to happen to the Devils going forward? Parise’s (very cheap for a guy of his caliber) contract runs out at the end of this year. And then Brodeur’s runs out after 2011-2012. Parise will require a humongous raise. And then I doubt if the Devils will want to give Brodeur anywhere near his current salary in his next contract, given the market for goalies. Yet, to not do so, would be an insult to the guy’s who’s been the franchise player.
Rocking the Red since 1975
Also weren’t Pothier and Clark legitimate trades. The Clark one in particular was in part to manage the salary but isn’t that part of the reason teams engage in trades, to dump salary as well as acquire talent. I understand the glass houses reference with Nylander, but IMO that’s why McPhee seems allergic to lengthy terms in general and NM clauses in particular.
Alright, confess-how many goals are you going to make this year?
"I'm not going to tell!"
Well can you at least guarantee fifty?
"No way. I have a different objective. To win."
by capsyoungguns on Oct 11, 2010 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions
All were free agent contracts – Clark was obtained in a trade, but his current contract was signed after he was here.
"It's always good to have vikings."
My bad. I was thinking of how they left the team and not how they got here.
Alright, confess-how many goals are you going to make this year?
"I'm not going to tell!"
Well can you at least guarantee fifty?
"No way. I have a different objective. To win."
by capsyoungguns on Oct 11, 2010 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions
but there is a mechanism to replace players with injuries: LTIR.
I don’t have any sympathy for the mess Lou created with the Devils this season. He knew damn well that signing Kovalchuck would severely restrict what the team would be able to do, cap-wise, and did it any way. He’s the one that was handing out bloated contracts with NMCs and NTCs for several seasons now. It’s shockingly poor cap management. Lou made the decision to carry 20 plays, knowing full well the risks of doing so. Its amusing to see it come back to bite his team 2 games into the season.
Pledge Drive 2010-2011: SO KIDS CAN!! Help build a playground
LTIR isn’t players with injuries – it’s players who have to sit for a long time with injuries. It’s obvious in this case that neither player is “Injured” for salary cap reasons, so let them have an emergency call up.
"Don't mind WM...he's an all-around jerk."
but then you utterly defeat the purpose of a hard salary cap.
Pledge Drive 2010-2011: SO KIDS CAN!! Help build a playground
Not buying this attitude of “Don’t spend to the cap because you might get a player hurt and not be able to replace him on the roster at all!” It’s silly. If I get around to it, I’ll make a fanpost or something later so it doesn’t bog down the Caps chat here, because it’s more of a Devils/external hockey issue.
"Don't mind WM...he's an all-around jerk."
IMO, it’s one this to spend to the caps with 22 or 23 guys on your roster. But 20? Lou took a calculated risk and it backfired, badly. I’m at a loss to understand why you’re trying to excuse patently piss-poor asset management. Every team is playing under the same rules. No other team has put themselves into this particular situation. it is 100% a mess of the Devils own making. No one forced them into it.
Pledge Drive 2010-2011: SO KIDS CAN!! Help build a playground
Yeah, I kind of just read up on the 20 man roster – that’s playing it to the cuff and a risk. By rule, yeah, it’s his own fault playing with his risk. I just don’t like the rule.
"Don't mind WM...he's an all-around jerk."
and carrying only 20 is why I have absolutely no sympathy.
Personally, I’m a rules person. The rules are in place and you abide by them, like them or not.
Pledge Drive 2010-2011: SO KIDS CAN!! Help build a playground
There comes a point, though, when the spirit of the law and the letter of the law are completely different entities, and this situation complies with the letter, but not the spirit. NJD should be allowed an emergency call-up, IMO, just because that’s good hockey. As WM says, this isn’t a Redden or Souray situation where they’re gaining Cap space due to a personnel issue, and they shouldn’t be forced to compete under-manned because of that.
by DrinkingPartner on Oct 11, 2010 9:15 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Reading a little further down, I realize that the discussion went in a slightly different direction than to what I replied. My bad :-P.
by DrinkingPartner on Oct 11, 2010 9:16 AM EDT up reply actions
As argued below, they’re only being forced to compete under-manned because they didn’t leave any room for emergencies. Everyone else is carrying 22 or 23 players on their roster. If Jersey could do that, no roster problem.
"It's always good to have vikings."
exactly. 20 players! They took the risk, it backfired. Sucks to be New Jersey.
I will say, though, that I feel a little for the players. It’s going to suck playing without a full game roster, and this mess is not of their making.
Pledge Drive 2010-2011: SO KIDS CAN!! Help build a playground
Right, but the idea is that you shouldn’t need to be in that situation. You’re allowed 23 guys exactly for this reason – having one or two guys injured shouldn’t require a call-up, you have plenty of players on the roster (or should) to fill the gaps temporarily.
There’s a reason emergency call-ups come into play later in the season when teams could have more injuries, games become tougher and more important, etc. It’s not like this is a year-long thing – and it’s also not like Lou & co. didn’t know this going into the Kovy deal, or any other deals they signed this summer. If they’re so dumb and so cap-strapped as to already be required to ice a 16-17 man roster…that’s their own damn fault.
If anyone needs me, I'll be at Kettler.
by Becca H on Oct 11, 2010 9:18 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Spot on
A cogent argument. Let them die by the sword and wallow in their stupidity. I’m just not sure that Kovy was worth that kind of money and they have numberous other bad contracts.
I don’t wish the NJ Devils “bad luck”, I just wish them “no luck” at all.
IMO, Kovy was absolutely worth the money, but now they’re going to have to take a Caps approach to things and grow internally. They’re probably gonna have to dump salary at the deadline this year, which is certainly good for the rest of the league.
by DrinkingPartner on Oct 11, 2010 9:49 AM EDT up reply actions
So the spirit of the law should be that you can break it? This didn’t come out of nowhere. If you could hit the cap on 20 contracts and then have the leeway to call up a player from the minors (who happen to be stud prospects for NJD) then why wouldn’t every team do that?
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
I agree with most of your point, but take a look at the Islanders and Rangers, aren’t both of them near the cap floor, plus some other teams?
LET'S GO CAPS!!!
The Rags are near the ceiling, Isles near the floor. I don’t know what the comparison is though. They both have full rosters the comply with the CBA. NJD only had a 20 man roster that complied, and now they are paying for it.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
my bad was confused on the Rags. The comparison was that not everyone would be hitting the cap with only 20 players, some are trying to hit the cap floor with 23 players
LET'S GO CAPS!!!
Colorado, Atlanta, Islanders, Blues, and Oilers are the five lowest teams in terms of cap hits. not sure what the exact cap floor is these days, but some of those teams are REALLY low.
BTW, when did Brashera’s cap hit via buyout get sent to Atlanta?
Pledge Drive 2010-2011: SO KIDS CAN!! Help build a playground
Rags are about a million below the cap.
Pledge Drive 2010-2011: SO KIDS CAN!! Help build a playground
The spirit of the law should be that an injured player can be replaced for the length of time he’s hurt. I’m not arguing the rule itself, I just think there should be a 1-to-1 injury recall exception. It’s in the spirit of good competition, nothing else.
by DrinkingPartner on Oct 11, 2010 10:56 AM EDT up reply actions
Uh huh. And then Nylander mysteriously goes day-to-day for a full season. Teams start rampantly putting guys on D2D so they can open up cap space and call up players. I hate that idea. That’s ripe for abuse and I like that LTIR makes you lose the player so you can’t fuck around.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
Well, that’s a different situation, though, isn’t it? The NJD aren’t going to do that to Volchenkov. There’s no undercut here, it’s just bad luck he took a puck to the face, and I don’t think his team should have to suffer for that.
by DrinkingPartner on Oct 11, 2010 10:59 AM EDT up reply actions
But how do you distinguish between the two? That’s allowing for a lot more subjectivity than already exists, and it just asking for problems.
"Do you see my fist? It was fists like these that built quaint Canadian cities out of the harsh Canadian wilderness, etc. etc."
Not in Seattle anymore.
by SeattleCapsFan on Oct 11, 2010 11:00 AM EDT up reply actions
Seriously, though, there’s no solution outside of better cap management, but I think if a team is down below a minimum of players, they should be allowed a filler player for only as long as necessary. Like I said, Volchenkov isn’t having his salary hidden, he broke his face.
by DrinkingPartner on Oct 11, 2010 11:02 AM EDT up reply actions
Ok, so what if the Rags could put Redden on D2D and call someone up. Then magically they can afford Redden and he’s not D2D anymore. At least the way they did it they lose his services and aren’t de facto above the salary cap.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
I’m confused, how would they magically afford him?
by DrinkingPartner on Oct 11, 2010 11:25 AM EDT up reply actions
Under WM’s plan, short term injuries would give you cap relief like LTIR does now. So Redden goes on day to day with “upper body” injuries or something and they call up someone.
Something like that.
by red army line on Oct 11, 2010 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions
Ah. I was not arguing using any plan, simply the idea of the thing.
by DrinkingPartner on Oct 11, 2010 12:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Actually- it’d be the opposite. They would take a penalty.
"Don't mind WM...he's an all-around jerk."
by Whiter Mage on Oct 11, 2010 7:52 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Let’s say Gaborik goes down, then they can afford Redden without having to send him to the AHL. Even worse, they could D2D him until the playoffs when he magically heals. Of course, then he’s out of practice for the full year. But under the current plan they at least have to expose him to re-entry waivers before they can use him.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
But that wouldn’t even make sense. If they were simply going to d2d him until the playoffs, they could simply LTIR him for the entire thing, and use all of that cap overage to bring up/sign as many players as they want/can. LTIR’d he’s not subject to waivers or anything, he still gets paid (like he would in the A), and he can come back to the team for the playoffs, too.
by DrinkingPartner on Oct 11, 2010 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Maybe Redden isn’t the best example, but I still think it’s obviously more manipulable to give D2D cap relief.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
Right, and I agree, but I never said anything about cap relief. I’m in favor of a 1-to-1 replacement that would disappear as soon as the other player was ready to come back. Where it gets sticky is what Elliotte was describing, and someone else goes down. You’d assume that another 1-to-1 replacement would come in for that guy, so what happens to the first recall? Does he immediately go back down because his 1-to-1 replacement replaced him? Or does he, seemingly the preferable replacement, simply shift over into the newly injured player’s place? I think for it to work, the 1-to-1 would have to be straight and hard, so, regardless of any other injuries, he’d have to go down as soon as his term was finished, and then he could be next in line to come back up. Not perfect, certainly, but more fair.
by DrinkingPartner on Oct 11, 2010 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions
What if the replacement makes more than the guy who goes down? What if teams use it as a way to hold on to a guy that would have to go through waivers to go down? There’s a reason teams don’t just go with 20 man rosters, and I see zero reason for NJD to get special treatment. Make your bed, sleep in it. Reap what you sow. Etc. I just don’t see the competitive fairness issue that you see; if anything I see it the opposite. NJD gets to load up on their top players knowing that the league will never let them suffer consequences from it.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
What is a team going to do with a player it wants to send down, but won’t because of waivers? Why would they bother putting him on d2d to be replaced? Sure, they don’t lose him, but they can’t use him, either (and apparently don’t want to, anyway, if he’s only going to be sent down), and he doesn’t go down to their A team to get valuable experience.
by DrinkingPartner on Oct 11, 2010 3:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Let’s say the Caps didn’t want to expose CBo to waivers and could just D2D him and not lose him. That’s going over the cap without going over the cap.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
No, wait, this doesn’t make sense. If you’re over the cap before d2ding someone, you’re still over the cap. The player who’s replacing the injured player is the player whose cap hit doesn’t count, because he’s literally only there while the original player heals. CBo would have to go through waivers no matter what.
by DrinkingPartner on Oct 11, 2010 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions
At least, this is the platform I’d assumed. There’s no cap relief, it’s just a literal warm body replacement for use in these extreme situations.
by DrinkingPartner on Oct 11, 2010 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions
The only difference is that you’re not adding the cap hit of the replacement player to the active roster cap. If you had a compliant cap before said player got hurt, you’d still be in compliance even if you brought someone in to replace only that player.
by DrinkingPartner on Oct 11, 2010 3:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Or you could just manage your team like the rest of the teams and have replacement players in case of injury.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
Pretty much. And we’ve hit the right edge. I guess I’m just more into the whole “personal responsibility” thing. If there was some sort of unfair surprise that fucked the Devils maybe I’d be sympathetic (like a massive freak infection that wiped out 1/3 of the team), but they fucked themselves.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
It’s not that I’m forgiving the Devils for being stupid, it’s that I think there should be a line drawn. And really, I think it more means that a team should be held to an absolute minimum of players so shit like this doesn’t happen. I also honestly don’t see how a revised replacement plan like the one I’m trying to outline would hurt the integrity of the hard cap or anything, either.
by DrinkingPartner on Oct 11, 2010 4:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Because you could load all your money into 20 players and not have to worry about injury replacements. Every other team budgets their cap space among 23 players so your $/player is higher if you ignore injury replacements because the league is going to bail you out.
As I said somewhere in this thread, I prefer the league just force teams to have at least 21 players on the roster. Then you have at least one injury replacement.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
But his team wouldn’t have to suffer for it if the Devils had figured out a way to keep at least one backup guy in the press box.
Look, I know most of us aren’t Sloan fans, but I’m somewhat comforted in his presence in the press box (or anyone’s for that matter) if it means that we’re not trying to play games with 5 D because we can’t afford to bring someone in.
No one’s punishing the Devils for having injuries, they would have had a very good team without handing out these big contracts and STILL had room to replace injured players if they’d been smart. They weren’t, they get no relief. Period.
If anyone needs me, I'll be at Kettler.
Let’s make no mistake that I understand the rule and that I understand both sides, I just disagree that a team should be left in a position like that in a legit injury situation. EDM and NYR likely would abuse the hell out of something that with because of certain specific awful contracts, but this is a situation where nobody can deny terrible horrible luck. Perhaps something like a STIR would work if the team applied for an emergency call-up that had to be approved by a panel. Lou would go up to the board with a video of a puck denting Volch’s face, and he’d be approved for a short term replacement.
by DrinkingPartner on Oct 11, 2010 11:06 AM EDT up reply actions
Right, but then you get into leaving something up to the discretion of the League – and we know that’s ALWAYS a good idea, no? ;)
But honestly I get what you’re saying. My problem with it is that it’s only in a really insane situation like this where it even becomes an issue – if the Devils plan better, this likely doesn’t happen. Injuries happen but it’s rare that you have 5 or 6 guys injured at the same time AND can’t afford to bring up replacement guys. They set themselves up to fail, and it happened early, by playing fast and loose with the roster numbers and trying to go into a season w/ just 20 guys.
Stupidity shouldn’t be given a loophole, even if it means the quality of hockey or the balance of a game suffers temporarily.
If anyone needs me, I'll be at Kettler.
by Becca H on Oct 11, 2010 11:10 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
And let’s not ignore that even healthy the NJD only dressed 11Fs.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
And let’s not ignore that even healthy the NJD onlydressedhad11Fs on the roster.
It’s not that uncommon to dress 7 D. Heck, PIT won the Cup dressing 7D a night.
by red army line on Oct 11, 2010 11:13 AM EDT up reply actions
the only reason you need the 1-to-1 injury replacement exemption is if you’re only carrying 20 players. And, imo, it’s just stupid to only carry 20.
Pledge Drive 2010-2011: SO KIDS CAN!! Help build a playground
It’s in the spirit of good competition, nothing else.
So lets take this ideal to the ice. In the spirit of good competition, all games should be played 5 on 5 at all times, regardless of penalties committed.
"Essentially, all models are wrong, but some are useful" George E.P. Box
by Knee high to a duck on Oct 11, 2010 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
That’s bs and you know it :-P. Forcing a team into a near forfeit situation because they’re not allowed to recall for an injury is not the same as the team itself going out onto the ice and gooning it up.
by DrinkingPartner on Oct 11, 2010 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions
actually it somewhat is. Isn’t there a rule that no matter how many overlapping penalties your team racks up, they won’t make it worse than 5 on 3? I don’t think it can go to 5 on 2, can it?
LET'S GO CAPS!!!
It sounds like you’re disagreeing, and if so, I don’t get how this relates. If anything, it sounds like this suggests that a minimum roster is a valid idea.
by DrinkingPartner on Oct 11, 2010 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Well I was just pointing out something similar, although I don’t like that limit. If you’re on the PK in a 5-on-3 and you commit another foul you should go to 5-on-2 in my mind
LET'S GO CAPS!!!
Well, and this applies both ways, i think, there becomes a point when it just becomes unfair, regardless of the circumstances.
by DrinkingPartner on Oct 11, 2010 3:16 PM EDT up reply actions
That first “becomes” should probably just be “comes.”
by DrinkingPartner on Oct 11, 2010 3:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Right, and that point is when you start fouling the other team that much & that frequently.
LET'S GO CAPS!!!
Firstly, it’s rare that a team gets a penalty while currently on a 5-on-3. It’s never on purpose. Secondly, the rule was put in place to keep a certain level of competition installed in the game. You may be a team chock-full of pricks, but we will never make you so unable to defend your goal so as to make it definitively unfair. The same should come into effect in a situation like this. Granted, NJD will dress 3 full lines at O and D. If they couldn’t even do that, I think the league might step in and do something about it.
by DrinkingPartner on Oct 11, 2010 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions
It’s not a near forfeit situation, it’s just a shorthanded situation because you can’t afford to dress more guys.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
I don’t know. If 15 is legal then I’m not sure what would be too few. I think the league was willing to let common sense dictate lineups and probably didn’t fully contemplate this sort of issue.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
You’re supposed to dress 20 players a game, but you can get special permission to dress fewer or more, I think.
by red army line on Oct 11, 2010 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions
(like when the Caps got permission to dress Leonhardt that one game, a 21st player and 3rd goalie, or Calgary with 15 a couple of years ago)
by red army line on Oct 11, 2010 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions
20.
16.4 Active Roster Size; Playing Roster.
(a) For the 2005/06 League Year and thereafter, there shall be a maximum of
twenty-three (23) Players on each Club’s Active Roster at any one time, provided,
however, that, on the date of each season’s Trade Deadline, a Club’s Active Roster may
be increased to any number of Players the Club, in its discretion, so determines, subject to
Article 50 hereof.
(b) Except in case of emergency, there shall be no reduction of the required
minimum Playing Rosters of the Clubs, below eighteen (18) skaters and two (2)
goaltenders.
Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?
And they’re dressing 3 fewer than that. Damn.
by DrinkingPartner on Oct 11, 2010 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions
The only thing with that rule is that it doesn’t say what happens in case (b). Does the team get to play with less than 20 players? Do they get to make emergency call-ups that will push them over the cap limit? Do they forfeit?
LET'S GO CAPS!!!
Except in case of emergency
At which point, I think it’s ridiculous that there isn’t some emergency call-up for exactly a situation like this.
Point being, I guess there is no actual limit, circumstances permitting.
by DrinkingPartner on Oct 11, 2010 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions
The only reason I’d say it’s ok to allow NJD to bypass the cap tonight and dress a few more is because of exhaustion/injuries. We saw the exhaustion start to set in on Saturday, and tonight it’ll only be worse. And when guys are that tired/that overused, that’s when really dumb, bad injuries start to happen.
Other than that, I won’t repeat what everyone else has argued into the ground. But they made their bed, it’s time to lie in it.
"Do you see my fist? It was fists like these that built quaint Canadian cities out of the harsh Canadian wilderness, etc. etc."
Not in Seattle anymore.
by SeattleCapsFan on Oct 11, 2010 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Of course they have a higher risk of injury playing with fewer players, but they were already doing that and presumably accepted that risk. Fuck the Devils. Don’t let them off the hook.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
by Rob Parker on Oct 11, 2010 3:29 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
I think the team has to apply for special permission to play with fewer than the minimum.
Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?
I suspect the league will happily give it to them. Permission, that is.
"It's always good to have vikings."
It’s not a problem with spending to the cap, it’s a problem with hitting the cap on only 20 contracts. If they had hit the cap with 23 contracts nobody would be talking about this because they’d have replacements. They left themselves literally zero margin for error (less than that?) and are now being faced with injuries, which were 100% going to happen at some point in the year. Lou knew it, you knew it. He didn’t want to make the cap space in training camp so now he’s living with it.
What happened to the WM we knew and loved? Where is this pansified hippy sentiment coming from?
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
I agree with Becca. You’re arguing to essentialy give a team a pass for bad cap management. Going into the free agency period, they knew they were already in trouble with bad contracts (no-move and no-trade clauses). But they just had to have Kovalchuk (although it’s possible the larger financial mistakes are signing Volckenov and/or Tallender). How’s that going to look when they end up with Kovalchuck, Parise, and junk surrounding them? That’s what they’re pretty much looking at tonight against Pittsburgh because they can’t ice a full team. If Volchenkov and Rolston play tonight, how effective does anyone think they’ll be? Volckenkov might be, but I doubt it about Rolston.
"It's always good to have vikings."
It’s not bad cap management if no one gets hurt. I don’t when things out of the team’s direct control (Team including players) leads to salary cap implications.
"Don't mind WM...he's an all-around jerk."
A) It still is bad cap management if nobody get hurt. B) How the fuck could you think you were going to get through a season without injuries?
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
by Rob Parker on Oct 11, 2010 10:52 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Moreover if teams who don’t give themselves any cap room are allowed an “out” in order to have a full roster that would be unfair to teams like the Caps who are careful to manage their cap space for emergencies. GMGM could have spent money like a drunken sailor this past summer but chose not to. Wisely IMO.
Alright, confess-how many goals are you going to make this year?
"I'm not going to tell!"
Well can you at least guarantee fifty?
"No way. I have a different objective. To win."
by capsyoungguns on Oct 11, 2010 9:05 AM EDT up reply actions
He didn’t not spend money because there might be an injury – he didn’t spend money because there wasn’t anyone worth the money that we can spend later in the season on and get something better for, and he didn’t spend money because he didn’t want to handcuff himself after this year.
"Don't mind WM...he's an all-around jerk."
You don’t think that the rash of short injuries to the team 2 years ago—151 man games lost before January (or something equally ridiculous)—factored into his cap management? I think he probably did. GMGM’s got a fairly good grasp of the big picture I’d say.
Country Gentlemen's Pig Fertilizer Gazette
Dunny-on-the-World
so, if GMGM is smart enough not to spend money so he doesn’t handcuff himself, why should Lou get a pass for handcuffing himself?
Pledge Drive 2010-2011: SO KIDS CAN!! Help build a playground
I’m arguing I don’t like the rule, not how the rule is applied. Two very different things.
"Don't mind WM...he's an all-around jerk."
Not really. If “you like the rule” but “don’t like applying the rule” then you don’t really like the rule.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
by Rob Parker on Oct 11, 2010 10:53 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
If he wasn’t worried about an injury would the Caps still have Sloan on the roster or one of the 4th line forwards? Don’t you think GMGM would have used that money on a 2C, the mythical missing piece D-man we have to have now, or locking up one of our FAs for longer?
LET'S GO CAPS!!!
There were no 2C’s available, and he felt comfortable with the D situation we had. Signing any one of the free agent top defensemen means handcuffing himself for next year. Maybe injuries were on the backburner of his mind, but no way were injuries the focal point.
"Don't mind WM...he's an all-around jerk."
I never said injuries were the focal point but it is part of the cap picture. Moreover given the interest he had in acquiring Mitchell I think he would have liked having another veteran d-guy but he chose not to throw lots of money and term at him because he would have lost cap flexibility both for emergencies and later trades and signings.
Alright, confess-how many goals are you going to make this year?
"I'm not going to tell!"
Well can you at least guarantee fifty?
"No way. I have a different objective. To win."
by capsyoungguns on Oct 11, 2010 9:20 AM EDT up reply actions
He didn’t sign him because the price went to high for a variety of reasons, was my understanding.
"Don't mind WM...he's an all-around jerk."
Yeah, but would he have been able to afford it if he had the money from Sloan and say Hendrick’s contracts?
LET'S GO CAPS!!!
I’m not at all arguing I’d rather be in New Jersey’s situation over the Caps situation and have 20 players who were better than 23 players. I’m arguing that injuries shouldn’t prevent a team from dressing an 18 man roster. That’s all.
"Don't mind WM...he's an all-around jerk."
Right…but it’s not the injuries preventing them from dressing a full roster. If they’d left even a little cap space they could have called someone up, or carried 21 or 22 guys to make sure that didn’t happen.
They’re not being punished for having injuries, they’re being punished for not being sensible and flexible enough to deal with them – they got the rulebook and the CBA in their orientation package just like everyone else.
If anyone needs me, I'll be at Kettler.
by Becca H on Oct 11, 2010 9:31 AM EDT up reply actions 18 recs
I wish I could rec this 100 times over for the second paragraph.
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But if this had happened to the Caps, wouldn’t you wish for leniency in regard of an injury situation?
“Dude broke his face, but he’s only gonna be out 2-3 games because he’s a hockey player. Why can’t we bring up a direct replacement for only those 2-3 games he’s out?”
by DrinkingPartner on Oct 11, 2010 9:36 AM EDT up reply actions
Hells No! I’d wish for a GM that wasn’t so stupid
LET'S GO CAPS!!!
by Elliotte on Oct 11, 2010 9:38 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
I don’t think signing Kovalchuk was stupid from their perspective. Kovalchuk made himself nearly unsignable, but that’s a piece you have to have for your team. Parise and Elias aren’t enough, and there’s no one else to sign. You’re essentially saying that, in the interest of awesome cap management, he should’ve passed up signing the 3rd best LW in the world and giving his team even less of a chance at success. I disagree with that. The situation sucks because of where they are, but I don’t think it was the wrong move.
by DrinkingPartner on Oct 11, 2010 9:45 AM EDT up reply actions
Was Kovy the only contract they signed this offseason? Did they have any players they could have traded/released to bring up some cheaper guys from the AHL to get more bodies on the roster?
I know it’s not all the Kovy contract’s fault, it’s more than just that.
LET'S GO CAPS!!!
They spent too much money, certainly. Volchenkov was another 5 mil tacked on top of Kovy’s contract, and they also signed… um… Tallinder at 3.75 or so. Zubrus is still about 1.5 mil overpaid…. Yeah, not great management, but they’ll probably be on the selling block in March.
by DrinkingPartner on Oct 11, 2010 9:51 AM EDT up reply actions
There are a bunch of NMC/NTCs floating around on that ridiculous roster, too. They’ve really painted themselves into a corner here – it’s shocking, Lou always seemed like one of the more intelligent (if slightly scary) GMs in the NHL.
If anyone needs me, I'll be at Kettler.
I just looked, and Kovy is still only making 6.6(66666666) million this year, too. I mean, that’s a Backis cap hit, ain’t it? Or is he a much larger hit because of his overall contract?
by DrinkingPartner on Oct 11, 2010 9:55 AM EDT up reply actions
nope, you’re seeing that correctly. It’s a (relatively) small-ish cap hit, all things considered.
Pledge Drive 2010-2011: SO KIDS CAN!! Help build a playground
Right. The bigger issues are just over 5 mil for Rolston (w/ a NTC). And 4.5 mil for Arnott (w/ a NMC). And 3.4 mil for Zubrus. And 9 NMC/NTCs through their roster.
Pretty much undoes any good done by Brodeur in taking his hometown discount a few years ago, doesn’t it? Think where they’d be if he’d asked for what he was likely worth (at the time) on the open market.
If anyone needs me, I'll be at Kettler.
Arnott managed a 4.5? How? He’s worth perhaps half of that. PERHAPS half.
by DrinkingPartner on Oct 11, 2010 10:01 AM EDT up reply actions
well, exactly. WTF was Lou smoking? This is why I don’t feel bad. The NJD front office was apparently high on stupid pills all summer.
Pledge Drive 2010-2011: SO KIDS CAN!! Help build a playground
why on earth did they make that trade?
Pledge Drive 2010-2011: SO KIDS CAN!! Help build a playground
Given the way Elias and Arnott play together and Arnott’s play in Nashville, I see no issues with that trade given it’s only this year remaining on the Arnott contract.
Well, I’d agree (somewhat) if it was in a vacuum…but considering Lou knew at the time that he wanted to go all-in on Kovalchuk, and considering they already had expensive – some might say overpaid – aging guys like Rolston and Elias on the roster, it’s a really questionable move in my eyes.
If anyone needs me, I'll be at Kettler.
why on earth did they make that trade?
New Jersey before that trade was arguably weaker at C than Washington. And they were weaker at W. And on D.
It’s only one year, I think. AV, Rolston, and Zubrus (plus the NTCs and NMCs) are the culprits, I think.
by red army line on Oct 11, 2010 11:01 AM EDT up reply actions
Right, they needed a center – and they’ve got other guys clogging up the salary cap as well – but none of those were news. They knew exactly what their cap situation was before they went out and got AV and Tallinder and Kovalchuk, and they knew they still needed to upgrade those areas. Why go out and get an aging center w/ $4.5 million left on his contract, even for a year, if you know you’ll need to spend big to create a competitive team?
If anyone needs me, I'll be at Kettler.
if you’re into this sort of stuff, for comparison, Calgary has eleven NTCs/NMCs! The Caps have 2 (not counting Nylander, since he’s not on the roster)
Pledge Drive 2010-2011: SO KIDS CAN!! Help build a playground
Devils were the big winner (?) of Volchenkov too this summer
"HISTORY DOESN’T MATTER!!! .... Who cares if it’s never been done? We aren’t those teams who failed before. We are in control of our own destiny, and we will make it happen our own way.." - A Gordon, June 2010
they have a lot of guys with NTCs and NMCs, 9, if capgeek is correct. Zubrus doesn’t have one, but his salary makes him difficult, if not impossible to move.
Obviously, they’re going to do everything in their power to hold onto Zajac and Parise.
There is also $1 mil going to contract buyouts this seasona nd next.
Pledge Drive 2010-2011: SO KIDS CAN!! Help build a playground
Jesus…they have almost $3.5 million on LTIR, too. I said it before, I’ll say it again – RIDICULOUS. What the actual hell was Lou thinking??
If anyone needs me, I'll be at Kettler.
Lou was too busy drinking the blood of virgins to think about cap management?
Pledge Drive 2010-2011: SO KIDS CAN!! Help build a playground
What about the possibility of performance bonuses kicking things up and on the cap like Chicago had to deal with this past offseason? Any egregious ones of those?
LET'S GO CAPS!!!
do you mean who potentially could carry over a big penalty into next season? Or specifically for Jersey?
capgeek is showing $1,097,500 in potential bonuses for New Jersey this year. They could, hypothetically, push that money to next season, which would still put them in quite the bind.
as for the rest of the NHL, it’ll take some time to look it up.
Pledge Drive 2010-2011: SO KIDS CAN!! Help build a playground
specifically NJ. I just remember reading that Chicago’s perofrmance bonus payoffs pushed them a bunch further over the cap, which carried over to this year for them. Just wondering if NJ would be in a similar situation (barring any trades)
LET'S GO CAPS!!!
yes, NJ could find themselves in a similar situation, albeit a much smaller hit than that $4 million and change bonus hit the Hawks are carrying this season.
I’m not sure how attainable the NJD bonuses are, though. I suppose it’s possible than none of that money gets paid.
Pledge Drive 2010-2011: SO KIDS CAN!! Help build a playground
more likely, I’d be royally peeved, that GMGM mismanaged the salary cap so badly.
Pledge Drive 2010-2011: SO KIDS CAN!! Help build a playground
by RedBirdie on Oct 11, 2010 9:38 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Of course I would! But I’m a homerish fan, I always want leniency when it comes to my team…doesn’t make it okay.
And we’ve had people break their faces before, quite a few in the last few years. You know what we did? We brought guys up to replace them. You know how we did that? Because we left cap space to bring someone – anyone – up to fill that role. It’s that easy.
If anyone needs me, I'll be at Kettler.
…I have no idea what this response means. Did I kill you with my excellent logic or do you still really not buy the argument here?
If anyone needs me, I'll be at Kettler.
Your point is you want something like a short-term IR, but with a big fine/fee attached to it.
LET'S GO CAPS!!!
you’re point is your want a mechanism to circumvent the cap.
Pledge Drive 2010-2011: SO KIDS CAN!! Help build a playground
you’re point is your want
Wow, that was like a conniption fit in writing :-).
by DrinkingPartner on Oct 11, 2010 9:46 AM EDT up reply actions
I do get your point. You’re saying that a team shouldn’t be punished for having injuries – and I get the basic sentiment, although as I said before there is an emergency call-up factor later in the season when this is usually an issue.
My point is there’s already a way for teams not to be punished – the NHL could very easily say you get 20 guys on your roster and that’s it, and any injuries require call-ups. They allow for a 23-man roster to prevent, or at least offer some protection against, this kind of situation.
Hockey’s a rough game, injuries happen. If you can’t figure out a way to still put out a legit team w/ at least 4 partial lines when you’re allowed 23 guys, and if you don’t leave enough money on the table to allow for call-ups, there shouldn’t be a lifeboat for you. You should be punished for not planning ahead like other teams who were smart enough to do so.
If anyone needs me, I'll be at Kettler.
I just think you should always be allowed to dress 18 guys – and if it means they have to dress Brett Leonhardt or some rando from a local beer league, they can, but I’d rather them be able to call up an AHLer or whatever, have the salary count against them percentage wise against the cap, and if they don’t address it they have to take a cap penalty the following year and pay a fine.
"Don't mind WM...he's an all-around jerk."
and if it means they have to dress Brett Leonhardt or some rando from a local beer league, they can
But they can do that anyway, can’t they? Philly signed some guys to pro tryout contracts last year to avoid this exact problem (albeit slightly less ridiculous, I believe) – if they haven’t hit 50 contracts they can go out and sign all the guys they want to no-pay, one-day pro tryout deals. Wouldn’t be surprised to see them sink to that at some point, especially if someone else gets hurt or does something moronic like PL3.
If anyone needs me, I'll be at Kettler.
I agree with this simply in the spirit of good competition.
by DrinkingPartner on Oct 11, 2010 9:53 AM EDT up reply actions
Further to that point…the Devils already have over $50 million locked up in just 15 guys next year. If – IF – the salary cap stays level that leaves them with under $9 million to fill 5-8 roster spots, and it will probably mean they lose a guy like Langenbrunner. And they still haven’t signed Parise, either.
So it’s not like a penalty next year would do anything – if anything it’d put them right back in the same position.
Worst…cap management…EVER.
If anyone needs me, I'll be at Kettler.
I’m betting one of Volch and Tallinder are gone at the deadline this year. Zubie, too, if they can swing it.
by DrinkingPartner on Oct 11, 2010 10:40 AM EDT up reply actions
I’d laugh if one of their big D signings had to go away because they’re too inept to keep them. Parise’s going to get (and is deserving of, imo) a huge raise over his $3.125 million – and if they take him to arbitration and the Devils walk, there are a lot of teams who would happily pay twice that to have him on their team.
If anyone needs me, I'll be at Kettler.
Parise’s worth more than Kovy because he’s the best RW in the game by a fair margin, but he’s not going to get more than, or even as much as, Kovy, likely, and for that reason alone NJ is lucky as hell. Parise would have to go elsewhere to make what he’s worth and he could, but I wouldn’t bet on it.
by DrinkingPartner on Oct 11, 2010 10:48 AM EDT up reply actions
Parise is worth more than Kovalchuk because he is significantly better. Regardless of position, Parise is worth more.
The guy is Peter Schumpmaker. Lord knows what a schump is, but you can bet your bippy his ancestors made them. What he's doing is far worse than crafting fine schumps.
by Steckel Me Elmo on Oct 11, 2010 10:52 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Worst…cap management…EVER.
Boston is giving them a run for their money. Not sure what they think they’re doing, what with the Bergeron and Chara extensions.
Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?
I’d rather the NHL mandate 23 man rosters than allow this kind of crap WM is advocating. Then Lou would have been forced to address the situation.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
If tons of teams were having these issues then I’d agree with WM. But it’s only a couple, so there shouldn’t be a special rule made just for the teams that manage the cap worse than the ~25 others.
by red army line on Oct 11, 2010 11:03 AM EDT up reply actions
Either way we are talking a special rule for idiot management. I’m just saying I’d prefer the rule force you to have reserve players under the cap than a rule that allows you to call up reserve players to go over the cap.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
My take is that term was as much of an issue as cash, and it would have taken more cash than the other teams to lure him East.
Alright, confess-how many goals are you going to make this year?
"I'm not going to tell!"
Well can you at least guarantee fifty?
"No way. I have a different objective. To win."
by capsyoungguns on Oct 11, 2010 9:27 AM EDT up reply actions
True but the interest was there signaling that he is aware that the Caps don’t have much quality depth on defense. He would have been a great pickup but would have compromised cap flexibility down the road.
Alright, confess-how many goals are you going to make this year?
"I'm not going to tell!"
Well can you at least guarantee fifty?
"No way. I have a different objective. To win."
by capsyoungguns on Oct 11, 2010 9:25 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, down the road. If he’d agreed to a 1 year deal, I still would have done it.
"Don't mind WM...he's an all-around jerk."
Agree with you there.
Alright, confess-how many goals are you going to make this year?
"I'm not going to tell!"
Well can you at least guarantee fifty?
"No way. I have a different objective. To win."
by capsyoungguns on Oct 11, 2010 9:28 AM EDT up reply actions
A couple of points. One, going into the season without cap room sufficient to support a callup is asking for trouble. Injuries happen, period. Two, AV and Rolston are older guys who have had injuries in the past and whose play style invites further injury. Any serious hockey fan could have told you those guys aren’t going to play 82 games this year.
Lou Lam did this to himself.
Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?
Again, arguing I don’t like the rule, not that the situation isn’t correctly being handled.
"Don't mind WM...he's an all-around jerk."
I can go with the injury exemption/emergency call-up like other folks can, but there comes a point where the hard cap is still the hard cap and that’s that. If Lou (or any other GM who’s been in the FO for almost 25 years) gets greedy, the downside is possibly going barebones with a roster or unloading an asset for less than dollar value, which is what he should have done in the first place.
If it’s such an issue, push for a CBA amendment past 29 other sleepy owners.
A very misguided piece on Huffington Post recently called 30 Rock the most racist show on television thanks to Tracy Morgan’s wild, manic, madcap performance. Tonight illustrated why whoever wrote that piece is full of shit and should be punched in the face until he has a more nuanced grasp on comedy.
by Bald Pollack on Oct 11, 2010 9:25 AM EDT up reply actions
What you said above (And I rec’d) is basically my entire argument that I’ve skewed from thinking too hard about and arguing tiredly.
"Don't mind WM...he's an all-around jerk."
Now don’t get me wrong, I’d be down with an exemption if there was a penalty to it, because otherwise you’re just kicking the can (er, Lou’s bad karma) down the road for another time.
A very misguided piece on Huffington Post recently called 30 Rock the most racist show on television thanks to Tracy Morgan’s wild, manic, madcap performance. Tonight illustrated why whoever wrote that piece is full of shit and should be punched in the face until he has a more nuanced grasp on comedy.
by Bald Pollack on Oct 11, 2010 9:32 AM EDT up reply actions
I argued in the other thread basically that the team would later have to get down below the salary cap or pay a really hefty fine (Like the bonus money hitting the team the next year or something).
"Don't mind WM...he's an all-around jerk."
Gotcha. Shows what I get for not reading.
A very misguided piece on Huffington Post recently called 30 Rock the most racist show on television thanks to Tracy Morgan’s wild, manic, madcap performance. Tonight illustrated why whoever wrote that piece is full of shit and should be punched in the face until he has a more nuanced grasp on comedy.
by Bald Pollack on Oct 11, 2010 9:38 AM EDT up reply actions
that’s trending towards soft cap territory and I’m afraid then the rich teams would just buy their way out of trouble every season.
Pledge Drive 2010-2011: SO KIDS CAN!! Help build a playground
By having players injured?
And it’s not as if the rich teams haven’t already bought their way out of trouble. Sheldon Souray plays for Hershey. Wade Redden’s in Hartford. Rich teams will always be able to spend more than less rich teams, which is why unless all players get identical salaries or have salaries determined by role, there’s no point in really having a salary cap anyway.
"Don't mind WM...he's an all-around jerk."
Why should they have to get down below the salary cap later if they didn’t have to before? And isn’t losing games because you didn’t have enough bodies a bigger penalty (and thus more of a deterrent to not be stupid in cap situations) than having a billionaire owner pay a small(ish) fine?
If anyone needs me, I'll be at Kettler.
I mean, like we’re banking salary cap, they’d be opposite of banking it. If you can bank salary cap why not the opposite as well?
"Don't mind WM...he's an all-around jerk."
Because what’s to say they’d be able to later on? Kovalchuk’s contract ain’t going anywhere, and neither are most of the other ridiculous deals Lou’s inked in the last 2-3 years.
Honestly I’ve never seen something like this before, where a team is so tight to the cap – and so early in the season – that they’re facing a game with just 3 forward lines. It’s simply amazing to me that it got this bad this fast in NJ. Philly had to sign a guy or two to pro tryout contracts last year to fill their roster, IIRC, but it certainly wasn’t this early.
Somewhat related, does anyone know if there’s a point where the roster gets so thin that the League steps in or the game gets forfeited or something? Say the Devils have another injury or two vs the Pens tonight – no way can they play a game with 14-15 guys, right? What if they get 3 injuries? Just curious, my sister asked me that yesterday and I didn’t have an answer.
If anyone needs me, I'll be at Kettler.
At this point, all I can say is I don’t like the current system, but I don’t have a better solution. I don’t really want to spend my entire day on this when I have other stuff to do, and I don’t think you guys do either.
"Don't mind WM...he's an all-around jerk."
honestly, I have nothing to do (well, I should be doing cover letters) and it’s an interesting debate.
Pledge Drive 2010-2011: SO KIDS CAN!! Help build a playground
I think (but can’t swear) that under the CBA you have to apply for permission from the league to play a game with fewer than 20 players on the lineup card.
I assume that if the league denies permission, you forfeit. So I guess the league could always force a forfeit. That would be pretty brutal, to kill a game, a night’s worth of gate revenues, a game’s worth of stats for guys pursuing bonuses and stat leadership, etc.
Really, Lou is just going to have to get over it and either trade Zubie for a 7th, or waive a couple of guys. Something’s got to give.
Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?
And the waiver thing can’t even do anything for them until Wednesday, right? Doesn’t it take 48 hours? They need to either trade one of the 2 guys w/out a NMC/NTC for peanuts or start signing those beer league guys.
I wonder if The Situation plays RW…
If anyone needs me, I'll be at Kettler.
48 hours on the weekend, 24 hours during the week.
Pledge Drive 2010-2011: SO KIDS CAN!! Help build a playground
Brodeur lost it in a sea of red?
Sounds like fans will no longer be allowed to wear unified colors in the stands ever again. First Ovie’s visor…
"Don't mind WM...he's an all-around jerk."
I preferred to take it as a compliment. Our building is hard to play in, even for a veteran goalie who has seen it all.
Alright, confess-how many goals are you going to make this year?
"I'm not going to tell!"
Well can you at least guarantee fifty?
"No way. I have a different objective. To win."
by capsyoungguns on Oct 11, 2010 8:59 AM EDT up reply actions
And his curved stick which Fleury is sure is illegal.
Alright, confess-how many goals are you going to make this year?
"I'm not going to tell!"
Well can you at least guarantee fifty?
"No way. I have a different objective. To win."
by capsyoungguns on Oct 11, 2010 9:00 AM EDT up reply actions
That’s ok, Brodeur doesn’t think it’s illegal. It’ll be fine.
"Don't mind WM...he's an all-around jerk."
Truth. Oh just snarking.
Alright, confess-how many goals are you going to make this year?
"I'm not going to tell!"
Well can you at least guarantee fifty?
"No way. I have a different objective. To win."
by capsyoungguns on Oct 11, 2010 9:07 AM EDT up reply actions
If the stick is illegal, there are remedies for that in the rules. MAF should have the coach challenge the stick. Of course, there are repercussions if you’re wrong about challenging the stick.
The NHL’s system for stick challenges is ingenious, in that once a stick is challenged a penalty will be called, either for playing with an illegal stick, or for delay of game…
Washington Capitals 2009-10 = Quebec Nordiques 1994-95
--- D'ohboy
by MikeL-Pivonka on Oct 11, 2010 9:08 AM EDT up reply actions
Honestly I was just recalling MAF’s trash talk about the stick during the playoff series with them. I didn’t take it seriously.
Alright, confess-how many goals are you going to make this year?
"I'm not going to tell!"
Well can you at least guarantee fifty?
"No way. I have a different objective. To win."
by capsyoungguns on Oct 11, 2010 9:30 AM EDT up reply actions
I’ve got no sympathy for him. If the Devils fans made their building as supportive of their team as we do ours, I don’t think you’d hear any of our guys bellyaching about it. They might admit it’s a challenge, but that’s about it.
There's always more to learn about Hockey.
It just reminded me of when Crosby complained to the refs when caps fans were throwing so many hats on the ice during Ovi’s hattrick that one time.
There's always more to learn about Hockey.
Is that sarcasm? It’s Monday. I’m tired. My internet-text parsing abilities are not at 100%.
There's always more to learn about Hockey.
As opposed to the ever-sensitive and always sweet Whither Mage.
by DrinkingPartner on Oct 11, 2010 9:19 AM EDT up reply actions
That’s why this is the money quote….
I was talking to (Johan Hedberg) that any time they shot the puck high it was a big adventure out there because we’re not used to playing in a building like that."
If you've read this far...seek help.
by ThePeerless on Oct 11, 2010 9:25 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Now correct me if I’m wrong, but aren’t NJ colors also red? So they should be used to that, unless no one goes to NJ games.
Proud member of the Popsicle Division of the Cupcake Conference.
and most teams’ fans don’t quite embrace an unofficial fan uniform like Caps fans have.
Pledge Drive 2010-2011: SO KIDS CAN!! Help build a playground
I wonder if Marty would have issues with the Penguins fans all dressing up in white… then again, the Devils did win all 6 games with the Pens last season (and the Caps did win all four…)
Washington Capitals 2009-10 = Quebec Nordiques 1994-95
--- D'ohboy
by MikeL-Pivonka on Oct 11, 2010 9:10 AM EDT up reply actions
Pittsburgh Sports Writers moment.
It’s ok to borrow an idea from Phoenix, but it’s not ok to borrow an idea from Calgary!
"Don't mind WM...he's an all-around jerk."
I just laugh that every single time they have a designated “White Out” they have to hand out shirts to ensure compliance.
Pledge Drive 2010-2011: SO KIDS CAN!! Help build a playground
RE: dressing in white. I’d imagine that would make the puck stand out against the background more.
Next time Marty is in here I saw we rock the black! It wouldn’t even be totally out of whack with previous color schemes (see the Jersey’s that the Caps’ current ones replaced). If all 18,000 + does it Marty will be really screwed.
by BradleyFightingVehicle on Oct 11, 2010 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions
Fans sitting at the ends of the ice should bring both black and white shirts, and change which color they are wearing depending on which way the Caps are shooting.
The guy is Peter Schumpmaker. Lord knows what a schump is, but you can bet your bippy his ancestors made them. What he's doing is far worse than crafting fine schumps.
by Steckel Me Elmo on Oct 11, 2010 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Pretty sure we lost one to the Devils last year.
by mechanicsville on Oct 11, 2010 2:14 PM EDT up reply actions
What a difference 21 hours makes --
Almost everything that was wrong on Friday night was fixed on Saturday night.
It was a different hockey team. We really enjoyed Saturday’s game. The crowd was superb, the team played great and the action was non-stop. There was a guy sitting by me who had “never” seen a hockey game. I asked him what he thought after the game, and he told me he was speechless. He said he was going to buy as many tickets as his time wold permit.
I literally brought my wife home from the Hospital and we drove straight to the Verizon Center. She wasn’t very strong, but had a great time of it.
Well, it was a different team from the 2nd period on, anyway. Good to hear that hockey is the equivalent of bed rest, now!
by DrinkingPartner on Oct 11, 2010 9:37 AM EDT up reply actions
My wife is just a gamer --
She just hated the thought of missing the home opener, but she wasn’t strong enough to ride the Metro – I had to drive and park under the Verizon Center.
So you’re saying there’s a chance…
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
by Rob Parker on Oct 11, 2010 11:22 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Hmmm. Brent Johnson is starting for the Fowl tonight against the dam dirty Debbils.
You perhaps knew me better as "Your Nation's Capital." Same great commentary, now with 100% more transparency!
Weird; doesn’t look like they’re on back-to-backs. Message to the team?
"It's always good to have vikings."
MAF was pretty awful against the Habs.
…or maybe they’re not scared of playing a team w/ only 6 able-bodied men.
If anyone needs me, I'll be at Kettler.
…or maybe they’re not scared of playing a team w/ only 6 able-bodied men.
NJ is in a bad way, but that’s bulletin board material. :-)
"It's always good to have vikings."
UGH! Now that’s a lose-lose proposition. No matter how it turns out I’m doubly unhappy. If Johnny wins. I’m happy but unhappy the Pens s won, and unhappy at myself for being happy about anything Flightless Fowl-related.
If NJ wins then Johnny loses and I’m sad for him, but happy that the Pens lost, but angry with myself for being happy when Johnny lost.
It’s just enough to drive a man to drink…oh hello Mr. Midas Touch beer. It’s been a good 8-no 10, 10 hours since I last spoke with you. How have you been?
Country Gentlemen's Pig Fertilizer Gazette
Dunny-on-the-World
Agree, although I’d also be annoyed if NJ won just for the mere fact that they’d have dodged a clear and obvious bullet and gotten away with their ineptitude for another day (and another 2 points).
It’s like the Pens’ home opener on Thursday: I thought it was entertaining that they lost, and to their biggest rivals, in their first CEC game…but then I had to be happy that the Flyers won and that Briere was the guy who scored the first goal.
Being a hockey fan is hard ;)
If anyone needs me, I'll be at Kettler.
Being a hockey fan is hard indeed.
I went thru a bleak period in my life this summer:
Beer didn’t help. Religion didn’t help. Psychiatry didn’t help. Japers’ didn’t help. Transcendental meditation didn’t help. Yoga didn’t help. Feng Shui didn’t help. Opening night didn’t help. But Saturday. Saturday helped. :-)
Country Gentlemen's Pig Fertilizer Gazette
Dunny-on-the-World
Lot of ways the Caps could win this thing tonight – Sasha, Knubs, Nick, Green, and MarJo have yet to get on the scoreboard, for instance. A couple of those guys get rolling and the Sens will have serious trouble.
Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?
Green got an assist Friday. I have no idea how, because I sure has heck don’t recall the play.
Pledge Drive 2010-2011: SO KIDS CAN!! Help build a playground
One goal from the pivots through two games…not gonna last.
"I don't care about winning the division or winning the President's Trophy. I just care about getting to the playoffs." --GMGM
by bigonetimer on Oct 11, 2010 10:01 AM EDT up reply actions
We’re less than an hour away from the first “Ups and Downs” of the season… set phasers to “argue”…
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
…set phasers to "argue"…
looks like somebody’s not been paying attention this morning ;)
LET'S GO CAPS!!!
hey now, it’s a collegial discussion of opposing viewpoints that just happens to have the phrase “shitty cap management” pop up here and there!
Pledge Drive 2010-2011: SO KIDS CAN!! Help build a playground
no complaints from me, I’m enjoying this more than the work I have to do, so it’s all good with me. I just hate getting in to work at 6:30 and waiting till 9 or so for everyone else to show up here.
LET'S GO CAPS!!!
That begs the question why you are there so early if you have to wait around on other people for three hours.
There's always more to learn about Hockey.
“Phasers” is used correctly here.
You had me at no problem.
by Ninjak on Oct 11, 2010 4:52 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Only 2 games will make it kind of odd. My guess is the only “up” is Brodeur’s GAA.
Human existence being an hallucination containing in itself the secondary hallucinations of day and night (the latter an insanitary condition of the atmosphere due to accretions of black air) it ill becomes any man of sense to be concerned at the illusory approach of the supreme hallucination known as death.
by sydtron on Oct 11, 2010 10:58 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Yo JP
Thanks for the link, but you’ve got it credited to RTR, not Caps Kremlin. No biggie just thought I’d point it out. :)
Capitals Kremlin the second line center of the Caps blogosphere.
by CapitalsKremlin on Oct 11, 2010 10:30 AM EDT reply actions
My bad – it’s corrected now. I blame Bloguin and my lack of coffee at the time.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
No worries bud and on that note, I could use some coffee myself as I settle in for deadlines.
Capitals Kremlin the second line center of the Caps blogosphere.
by CapitalsKremlin on Oct 11, 2010 11:18 AM EDT up reply actions
Reading the first 2/3 of the thread I just became confused. I am at In Lou We Trust or at Jaspers’ Rink?
/kidding
The Artist Formerly Known as CP2Devil.
Links guy at Five For Howling.
I think the depth and quality of analysis of NJ’s salary cap issue as discussed on this board is magnitudes higher than the analysis on In Lou We Trust.
How so? It may be higher—simply because we’re outsiders and have closer to zero blinders on—but not “magnitudes.” They have had good discussions on their cap, but that was mostly this summer, and I think more recent discussions have been briefer because it’s been discussed very frequently.
Regardless, let’s not come across badly.
by red army line on Oct 11, 2010 11:11 AM EDT up reply actions
I think it’s simply a reference to how much NJD talk has gone on in this thread.
The guy is Peter Schumpmaker. Lord knows what a schump is, but you can bet your bippy his ancestors made them. What he's doing is far worse than crafting fine schumps.
by Steckel Me Elmo on Oct 11, 2010 11:14 AM EDT up reply actions
Thank you Elmo. I just wanted to point out the extensive and intelligent conversation we have in our comments. I follow ILWT because I am a big Marty fan, and the amount of comments on anything, compared to Japers, is miniscule. Today’s news and notes, for example, drew zero comments. Yesterday there were three excellent posts, which drew a total of 15 comments. Compare that to our enlightened discussion of the cap situation (I didn’t count but there has to be at least 200 comments today, almost all of which are intelligent and insightful).
Neuvy to start tonight, per him per Corey, btw.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
Whew. Saw somewhere on Twitter earlier that Sabu was the first guy off, that made me nervous…
If anyone needs me, I'll be at Kettler.
(Click for larger)
You perhaps knew me better as "Your Nation's Capital." Same great commentary, now with 100% more transparency!
Or is he? I mean, dude wins the game and there’s just one guy there to congratulate him while his backup turns his back to him and skates away?! Looks like Sabu’s doin’ some corroboratin’…
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
Dagger eyes!
(Same drill)
You perhaps knew me better as "Your Nation's Capital." Same great commentary, now with 100% more transparency!
by EmilyB on Oct 11, 2010 11:16 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
If anyone’s interested, per Ian Mendes (Ottawa reporter) here is most of the Sens lineup for tonight:
Michalek-Spezza-Alfredsson
Smith-Fisher-Foligno
Ruutu-Kelly-Neil
Shannon-Regin-Kovalev.
Gonchar-Phillips and…4 other D, I’d assume.
Leclaire in net.
If anyone needs me, I'll be at Kettler.
Defense (thanks to Garrioch):
Gonchar-Phillips
Carkner-Campoli
Lee-Karlsson.
If anyone needs me, I'll be at Kettler.
Jesus…don’t mean to keep replying to myself but I just copied and pasted the forwards, didn’t notice that Kovalev was on the 4th line. Wow. Also, that 3rd line looks like a royal pain in the ass.
If anyone needs me, I'll be at Kettler.
So the PIM O/U is 60?
A very misguided piece on Huffington Post recently called 30 Rock the most racist show on television thanks to Tracy Morgan’s wild, manic, madcap performance. Tonight illustrated why whoever wrote that piece is full of shit and should be punched in the face until he has a more nuanced grasp on comedy.
by Bald Pollack on Oct 11, 2010 11:31 AM EDT up reply actions
Alexei Kovalev is a fourth-liner? Yowza.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
I’m shocked Regin is a 4th line player as well.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
We’ll see who gets what ice when the game actually happens. I’d be real surprised if Peter Regin stayed on a 4th line given the lack of depth up front.
"Essentially, all models are wrong, but some are useful" George E.P. Box
by Knee high to a duck on Oct 11, 2010 2:08 PM EDT up reply actions
If Regin stays at C how is he going to get much more ice? They won’t sit Fisher or Spezza.
OTT is going to regret not dressing Winchester.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
Same way PIT gets Staal extra ice, I imagine. Throw him out there on some extra shifts at even and sit whoever else for that shift.
"Essentially, all models are wrong, but some are useful" George E.P. Box
by Knee high to a duck on Oct 11, 2010 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions
is today the day Ottawa decides to actually start scoring?
Pledge Drive 2010-2011: SO KIDS CAN!! Help build a playground
Puck Daddy has an update on Pavelec. Basically, it’s being termed a “fainting spell” for now because they’re still baffled as to what caused him to collapse.
Pledge Drive 2010-2011: SO KIDS CAN!! Help build a playground
If it really is this, I know that in some people it is caused by stress, and there’s really not much you can do about it.
John Carlson - Glory follows him.
Six Beers Too Many Fantasy Team - BizNasty's Hobo Rodeo
I’m not an expert, but I would think that fainting when things get stressful is not a good trait for a goalie. Particularly one playing for the Thrashers.
by b.orr4 on Oct 11, 2010 1:05 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Hopefully it’s not adult-onset epilepsy or something, though, because he’s done if it is.
by DrinkingPartner on Oct 11, 2010 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions
I keep going back to Jordan Sigalet’s situation…it sounds so eerily similar, down to the numbness and the fainting during a game because of the heat/adrenalin.
But I’d hope they would have already run a CT scan, which means MS has probably been ruled out. Still…
If anyone needs me, I'll be at Kettler.
could be any number of things. the list of things that can cause fainting and paralysis is a long one.
Pledge Drive 2010-2011: SO KIDS CAN!! Help build a playground
I’ve a friend who suffers that been trying to convince me for days that’s likely what it is. But despite his pretty heavy knowledge of this narrow issue, he’s not a doctor nor has he stayed at a Holiday Inn express anytime soon.
"This guy is an android. He's not human....Oh my goodness."
Its weird that he’d have a fainting spell for the first time at his age, but it could happen I suppose. You have a little bit of warning that it is coming on. Someone said that he appeared to be trying to call to the bench just before he went down so perhaps that is what happened. In any event, there are things you can do to raise the blood pressure (drink more, eat more salt), and there are drugs also (like beta blockers) though they might effect his overall athletic performance. Hopefully this will not impact him much in the future.
My friend is (jokingly) convinced that he was just nervous.
"Do you see my fist? It was fists like these that built quaint Canadian cities out of the harsh Canadian wilderness, etc. etc."
Not in Seattle anymore.
by SeattleCapsFan on Oct 11, 2010 2:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Per McKenzie
NJD put Letourneau-Leblond on waivers. BOS puts Nolan Schaefer no waivers. CBJ’s David LeNeveu clears.
John Carlson - Glory follows him.
Six Beers Too Many Fantasy Team - BizNasty's Hobo Rodeo
do the Devils get cap relief starting with the moment he was put on waivers, or do they have to wait until he clears?
Pledge Drive 2010-2011: SO KIDS CAN!! Help build a playground
They have to wait until he clears. And even then it’s like $525,000 or something like that. I guess at this point any relief is good, but I wonder what happens next – if he goes away they’re down to 19 guys (w/ AV and Rolston healthy) and not much more room to bring someone in.
Hey, have I mentioned what a shit show NJ’s cap situation is and how stupid I think they are? Wasn’t sure if I had. Just to clarify, it is and I do :P
…watch them win the Cup this year.
If anyone needs me, I'll be at Kettler.
It’s about time they got rid of Letourneau-Leblond! As I’ve said before, a team who’s short staffed should NOT waste a roster slot on a goon who plays so few minutes.
(But I hear you on the Devils — “watch them win a Cup”. Yes, the Devils are not exactly loved in Caps fandom but I consider them the least “evil” team in the Atlantic Conference. Of course, that’s not saying a whole lot.)
Rocking the Red since 1975
Should have added – there’s goes the appointment with Mr. King in November.
"It's always good to have vikings."
Not necessarily – assuming no one takes him, there’s no reason he can’t be back in November.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
Even if somebody does take him, no reason he couldn’t play against the Caps at some other point. (Sooner the better of course….all this suspense is killing me)
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
by twistedlogic on Oct 11, 2010 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions
True story. The man will still be a massive tool no matter what uniform he put on. Plus, I can’t see many folks on the Devils roster being proud of him being an asshole.
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
by twistedlogic on Oct 11, 2010 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions
True. But if they replace him per sk84fun_dc’s thought above, it’s not like they’ll have a roster spot/cap space available to call him back up.
All is subject to change and how the wind blows on any given day.
"It's always good to have vikings."
Did anyone read an interview of him being asked WHY he went after MJ90? Like, “I thought it would pick up the team” or “he speared me in the second period” or some other attempt to make an excuse?
From NJ.com:
[…] the Devils’ left winger, who slashed Washington’s Marcus Johansson and then instigated a fight that will cause him to miss Monday’s game against the Penguins, has no regrets.
“No, no regrets,” Leblond said today after a brief, 20-minute practice. “What happened, happened. It’s a hockey game. Things happen fast.”
Asked if he knew the last five-minutes rule, he answered: “Yep.”
And should it have been an instigating penalty?
“It happened,” Leblond said, “and that was the decision the referee took.”
So…no. He’s just a moron.
If anyone needs me, I'll be at Kettler.
Plus, its not like they were getting “picked up” from a 5 goal deficit and a complete disciplinary unravelling in 5 mins.
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
by twistedlogic on Oct 11, 2010 2:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Even if they were, there were three fights before that w/ willing participants on both sides (or 2.5 fights, really…sorry Greenie). If you subscribe to the “sending a message” fights being effective, those would have more weight with a team (I’d think) than a goon chasing down a rookie who clearly doesn’t want to fight.
If anyone needs me, I'll be at Kettler.
That PLLL, he’s just making friends like nobody’s business. Don’t see that going over any better than the actual on ice conduct. Anybody got an extra bag of pucks? NJ might be in the market.
Country Gentlemen's Pig Fertilizer Gazette
Dunny-on-the-World
I wonder if the Devils asked Letourneau-Leblond if he wanted to go on waivers before waiving him.
A very misguided piece on Huffington Post recently called 30 Rock the most racist show on television thanks to Tracy Morgan’s wild, manic, madcap performance. Tonight illustrated why whoever wrote that piece is full of shit and should be punched in the face until he has a more nuanced grasp on comedy.
by Bald Pollack on Oct 11, 2010 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
I have a really funny image of Lou chasing after PL3, slashing and hooking him before finally throwing him onto the waiver wire…awesome, thanks for that BP ;)
If anyone needs me, I'll be at Kettler.
did you imagine Lou with glowing red eyes? Adds a nice touch to the whole chasing down PL3 mental image.
Pledge Drive 2010-2011: SO KIDS CAN!! Help build a playground
and I hope Lou did ask Pl3 if he wanted to go on waivers, and PL3 said “no.”
Pledge Drive 2010-2011: SO KIDS CAN!! Help build a playground
Interesting. I wonder when they put him on? His salary hit does not count against the cap while he’s suspended, but he club has to maintain room to accommodate him when the suspension lifts (which I think it would right at the end of the game for which he was suspended). Which would have meant they could not bring a guy up to replace him.
Assuming he’s going to clear in time, by waiving him they can get a replacement warm body in the lineup.
I further read this to mean that Roston’s not going to play, and the team absolutely can’t go into a game with 9 forwards.
Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?
I read that the cap hit stays during the suspension. It’s confusing because there are so many different reports.
"It's always good to have vikings."
Section 50.10 © provides:
For Players that are suspended, either by a Club or by the League, the
Player Salary and Bonuses that are not paid to such Players shall not count against a
Club’s Upper Limit or against the Players’ Share for the duration of the suspension, but
the Club must have Payroll Room for such Player’s Player Salary and Bonuses in order
for such Player to be able to return to Play for the Club.
Link (go to P. 226 for specific section)
I got confused enough by the various conflicting reports that I waded through the CBA until I found the above. Assuming it hasn’t been superceded by a subsequent amendment (and there’s no guaranteeing that it hasn’t) then I think I have it correctly.
Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?
so, for a one game suspension, there is essentially no cap relief?
Pledge Drive 2010-2011: SO KIDS CAN!! Help build a playground
I think that’s right? Assuming that the suspension ends immediately when the clock hits 00:00 in the third (versus lasting for the 12-hour period from noon to midnight on the day of a game, or something similar like that; I can’t find anything in the CBA that speaks to the issue, for the record).
Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?
So it’s like LTIR for the term of the suspension. Hmm, I don’t approve. Part of the penalty should be that the team doesn’t get a benefit.
Thanks for posting.
"It's always good to have vikings."
Well, technically the LTIR exception allows a club to exceed the salary cap by the amount of the injured player’s cap hit, and the club determines when a LTIR’d player comes back, etc.
The suspension exception doesn’t count the suspended player’s salary against the cap at all, but the cap hit returns immediately once the suspension is over.
So it’s a little different.
Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?
So LeNeveu’s in Columbus now? Huh, that kid’s been moving around quite a bit.
"Do you see my fist? It was fists like these that built quaint Canadian cities out of the harsh Canadian wilderness, etc. etc."
Not in Seattle anymore.
by SeattleCapsFan on Oct 11, 2010 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions
So Katie throws this our way:
Neuvirth has played quite well for the Capitals early. Through two games he has a .903 save percentage, stopping 58 of the 64 shots he’s faced.
I can get past the math error there, but not so much using a .903 (or .906) save percentage to presumably evidence that Neuvy has played quite well.
Don’t get me wrong – I think he has. But that data point does support the claim.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
I will be more comfortable with our goalie situation when Varly is ready to go. While Neuvy has done well so far, I would not be comfortable with the idea of him playing 70 games this year, since we’re afraid to use a minor league backup (Sabourin.)
Rocking the Red since 1975
I have to thank you for further clarifying the points raised by JP; namely, are there reasons to be concerned about the Caps’ goaltending situation, and what is the name of the current backup?
Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?
Excellent point. Although it’s only two games, Neuvy has effectively laid claim to #1 status. I fully understand that goaltending duties are going to be shared moving forward, but #30 has acquitted himself quite well so far.
by mechanicsville on Oct 11, 2010 2:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Wisniewski’s “gesture” to Avery today. Not necessarily SFW.
John Carlson - Glory follows him.
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by boutros23 on Oct 11, 2010 2:15 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
That’s at least a fine, probably a suspension.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
Yep and yep, but you forgot to add “and damn funny.”
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
I thought that was assumed, but Gary won’t think so.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
That’s awesome.
"Do you see my fist? It was fists like these that built quaint Canadian cities out of the harsh Canadian wilderness, etc. etc."
Not in Seattle anymore.
by SeattleCapsFan on Oct 11, 2010 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Lamoriello said the decision to put Leblond on waivers, "has nothing to do with the other evening."
Bullshit.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
by Rob Parker on Oct 11, 2010 3:37 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Of course, if I kept reading:
"It had to do with making a decison as far as whether we add another different type of forward and depending on the injuries," Lamoriello said. "But I didn’t like what transpired at the end of the game in that situation. Five minutes left to play, an instigating penalty, you know it’s a suspension. And he’s going to miss a game. You have to be more intelligent than that."
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
Just reading the same post over on F&I, and I agree with you.
He did follow that up with
But I didn’t like what transpired at the end of the game in that situation. Five minutes left to play, an instigating penalty, you know it’s a suspension. And he’s going to miss a game. You have to be more intelligent than that.
Which I think is a more honest reflection of his thoughts on the matter.
Also, Gulitti had this little nugget.
Playing just the third game of the season with only 15 skaters is an embarrassment for the Devils.
Link, for those of you interested in reading the whole thing.
Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?
I like that last line as well. You know Lou doesn’t like having to do that, and I’m sure he saw it coming when they signed Kovalchuk. I honestly don’t think Lou even wanted to sign him but the owner(s) pushed him into it. Now they are scrambling to round out the team. He can pretend they won’t have to trade away someone, but that’s just a pipe dream. Move a salary and get your house in order.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
I don’t know their salaries, but are there any obscenely high ones they could try to bury in the AHL to free up room? Ones they know have a low chance of getting claimed on waivers?
LET'S GO CAPS!!!
They could do it to Zubrus, but then they have no depth. The problem is they really rely on all the guys that make money. I don’t think they can assign Rolston, but maybe they can.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
is the farm still in rough shape? I know last year there was a lot of talk about how weak it was.
Pledge Drive 2010-2011: SO KIDS CAN!! Help build a playground
They have Tedenby and Josefson in the AHL right now, both are studs. They don’t have much after those guys (though I think they have a quality D or 2). In the big picture the farm is hurting, but as far as filling out a roster right now they have two guys that would really help.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
They traded prized prospect Patrice Cormier to ATL for Kovy part 1 (now out with a broken foot after blocking a shot in the dying seconds of rookie camp scrimmage). They traded away and/or were assesd a loss of many of their first/second round picks too. If their farm isn’t strong now, it’s gonna be a while before it gets better.
You perhaps knew me better as "Your Nation's Capital." Same great commentary, now with 100% more transparency!
35+ contract. They’re stuck with the cap hit, unless they trade him. Good luck with that.
Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?
Zubrus, Clarkson, and/or Salvador (currently on LTIR) are all options. Rolston, too, because he only has a NTC.
Pledge Drive 2010-2011: SO KIDS CAN!! Help build a playground
Just as scary for NJD – Marty’s stat line according to Wysh:
5.31 GAA and .813 SV%
"It's always good to have vikings."
by gfcaps fan on Oct 11, 2010 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
throw in Hedberg’s numbers and it’s enough to make you laugh:
6.00 GA, .778 SV %
they rank last and second to last in GAA in the NHL.
of course, that stat is a little skewed right now. NHL.com is showing Pavelec with a sterling 0.00 GAA
Pledge Drive 2010-2011: SO KIDS CAN!! Help build a playground
They have 11 guys making over $3M annually. Plus as F&B says below, they have some guys in the A that could step in (albeit with perhaps some attendant uncertainty and drop in performance). I assume they’d all waive a NTC/NMC for any reasonable destination. Here’s the list:
Kovy, $6.66M (tough to get rid of this guy without looking like a fool)
Elias, $6.0M (Might could get rid of him, but has 3 more years at this cap hit, and he’s old, so…)
Roston, $5.06M (35+ contract for this year and next, untradeable, waiving doesn’t help)
Arnott, $4.5M (just acquired him, not a lot of other options at C, so hard to think they’d dump him)
Zajac, $3.88M (key component, would be fools to get rid of him)
Zubrus, $3.4M (underwhelming and overpaid, won’t be any takers most likely, so would have to waive him)
Parise, $3.12M (see Zajac, above)
Volch/Talinder (see Kovy, above, and they are thin on good D in the minors, I think, so they need them)
White, $3.0M (could move this guy)
Salvador, $2.9M (could move him, but see problems with NHL ready D in the system…)
Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?
It’s hard to see them finding a trade partner for anyone other than Zajac, Arnott or Parise. Getting a team to take an unspectacular player at a $3m number(some of these guys have long term, too) is extremely difficult. Those are crucial players to the team. Hence, the bind Lamoriello is in.
You had me at no problem.
I would take White or Salvador if his head gets right.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
I would Zubrus in a second if we could somehow snag him on re-entry waivers!
by DrinkingPartner on Oct 11, 2010 4:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Maybe, but his term is a killer. We don’t need him around keeping down our prospects for that long. And I don’t think Lou would ever do that. He has no interest in paying a guy to play for another team.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
Lou’s gonna run out of options pretty soon. Too bad if he doesn’t want to pay some one to play for another team, it may come to that.
Pledge Drive 2010-2011: SO KIDS CAN!! Help build a playground
I would snag Zubrus in a second if we could somehow snag him on re-entry waivers!
by DrinkingPartner on Oct 11, 2010 4:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Arnott would need to be convinced to waive his NMC. Granted, he did so this summer to come to the Devils, but you never know.
Pledge Drive 2010-2011: SO KIDS CAN!! Help build a playground
Agree. They need to suck it up and waive and/or trade one or more of Clarkson, Zubrus, or Salvador, and then replace them with ELC guys, just to have enough warm bodies to go forward. This is ridiculous.
Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?
And they have two highly skilled ELC Swedes in the AHL. They should suck it up, move the salary, and then bring those guys up. Lou doesn’t like to play teens, but he doesn’t have a ton of options now if he wants to have a full compliment of players.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
He didn’t need to commit big salaries to two FA defensemen at the same time he was blowing the future on Kovalchuk. It’s just as much on Lou as it is on ownership.
"It's always good to have vikings."
Calgary Flames 2008-2009
I’m not sure where to post this, but as I mentioned earlier, this isn’t the first time an NHL team was in a cap/injury situation related to not dressing 18 skaters. It happened with the Devils at least once skating with 17, but as I mentioned earlier, it happened with the Calgary Flames in 2008-09 near the end of the season. I was pretty sure it started as only 1 skater below the minimum, with at least one other player skating, but not playing much and then a few games later resulted in only 15 skaters playing in a game as more injuries, etc., accumulated.
I found the boxscore/event summary for the game in question and yes, the Flames only dressed 15 skaters (plus the 2 goalies) for a game on April 10, 2009.
And in some of the games preceding April 10, the Flames dressed 17 skaters.
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