Japers' Rink: The Readers' Perspective
by J.P. on Jan 27, 2010 4:39 PM EST
Email
PrintIf there's one fundamental truth here at Japers' Rink, it's that we're nothing without our readers. You guys support, inspire and challenge us, and keep us grounded. We don't do anything around here without our readers first and foremost in our minds, because that community - our community - matters to us.
As the community gets bigger and bigger, however, it gets trickier and trickier to maintain the integrity of what has helped us to grow in the first place, namely offering the very best place to discuss the Caps with the best-informed Caps fans. So we wanted to get a feel for the "State of the Blog," so to speak, from the perspective of the community members, focused not so much on our content, but rather on the interactions we have with one another in the comments to posts. We wanted to ask a few of our more frequent commentors a few of questions and let them hash it out, roundtable style, but encourage everyone to chime in in the comments. So without further ado, here are the questions and we'll turn it over to "the people"...
What is Japers' Rink, fundamentally?
What enhances or detracts from your experience on the site?
What would you like The Rink to be?
How do we get there from here?
Gould Old Days: In the Time of Bob Gould, there was nothing but the Post, the Times, WTOP, and HTS. True story: My brother once wrote to the Hershey Bears because he heard they were the Caps' minor league affiliate, and he asked them for more information. They wrote him a nice note and sent him a press guide. So he got one magazine, with stats from the previous year. That was the only way to keep up with the farm, and I'm sure less than a dozen Caps fans even did that.
Now we have the opposite problem. Information about every player the Caps have drafted or signed is available, whether they play in the NHL, AHL, ECHL, SEL, KHL, CHL, OHL, WHL, college leagues, you name it. Every story of interest to a Caps fan is instantly available on the internet -- somewhere, and in some language. And that's the problem. Information overload. How do you cut through it all? How do you try to make sense of it? And where do you find a like-minded group of people who want to talk about it?
What is Japers' Rink, fundamentally?
This is the first and last place I go for Caps information, analysis, and conversation. I have only three other primary sources: the games themselves on TV; the Capitals Report podcast; and the Old Barn Hershey podcast. At this point, if I read, listen to, or watch anything else, it's probably because someone on the Rink told me to.
Information: The Rink is a phenomenal aggregator, and most of the credit goes to JP. I really believe that people take the links posts and "what we're reading" sidebar for granted because they just sort of magically appear. But it's a heck of a lot of work. The Rink really helps us all keep up with the news, and I'm sure it makes a huge difference for folks like Ed Frankovic, RMNB, or John Walton to get a steady audience push from us whenever they write something good. This role is the one that, in my mind, makes Japers' Rink the center of the Caps media universe.
Analysis: Aggregating news makes the Rink valuable, but the analysis makes the Rink excellent. "Scholarship" is not too strong a word for what goes on here. And the real strength is the different voices. JP's empiricism. Getz's analytics. Pepper's poetry. Tuvan's humor and perspective. And Becca's ability to cut through to the heart of something. There is some seriously good writing going on here, and I think in the future we'll come to realize that this place turned out to be the formal record of what happened with the Caps and what it meant, even more than the Post or capitals.nhl.com.
Community: The intro above by JP stressed community, but I'm listing it third here on purpose. Because what goes on above the red bar that says "Comments" truly is more important than what happens below it. This may sound funny coming from me (5000+ comments). Of course I enjoy commenting here. I genuinely like the people and find the conversation very stimulating. As a Caps fan living on the other side of the country, this is a great way to connect. But we have to keep things in perspective, and not put the cart before the horse. It's the content, not the comments, that makes the site.
Bald Pollack: Gouldie pretty much covers this, but I think hands down Japers' Rink is the most analytical and objective source of information and recommendations about the Washington Capitals. The only real newspaper in town doesn't provide analysis (when their writers aren't doing schtick berating the sport), and Joe B./Locker are among the best in the league for its objectivity and analysis. The Rink ties this altogether on their own, doing it with a degree of writing quality (the second quality I like) not found in many other blogs. Each voice who contributes large content to the site, while being their own, share their insight and passion for the Capitals and those who wear the sweater and for the site they represent, and do it damn well.
The third thing is how organic user-discussions and contributions can turn into measurable wins. Whether it's content for articles or its own individual ticket exchange, these were first started by a modest idea and now are valuable parts of the site. We even helped get someone engaged for goodness sake! It's those contributions that not only help make the Rink a more valuable component for Caps fans, and the result, be it meetups, contests, pickup games at KCI or other content you wouldn't get anywhere else, make for a site that's growing in popularity in leaps and bounds. I have no doubt that respect will follow.
Knee high to a duck: Throwing my hat into the objectivity/analysis ring; I found Japers’ through the CI blogroll when I was looking to educate myself on matters Caps, read an article pertaining to - guess who - Jeff Schultz, who was being roundly panned in the CI comments at the time. I can’t remember the exact whiches or whereabouts today, but I was hooked – again reiterating, the writing was top notch and there was real, thoughtful analysis of both the statistics in question and the subjective observation of his play. I clicked the comments and found some profound hockey discussion that expanded my knowledge of the game and my perspective. To me, that’s Japers’ in a nutshell – high-test content throughout the user experience.
Gouldie talked about not putting the cart before the horse and I could not agree more; the community here is very good, but it absolutely wouldn’t exist without a huge amount of original, very high quality content coming from the site authors - hockey content in general, usually Caps-centric content in specific. Japers’ is fundamentally a lens through which we view the team we root for, be that in gathering and disseminating information, analyzing what’s been gathered, or refining that analysis through what amounts to crowd-sourcing, or all three at once. However, you need the first for context, the second for content and only then can you have the third and a thriving, engaged community.
Fehr and Balanced: I second what the other guys. have already said, so I won't repeat the same stuff. The sheer amount of time I spend here reading and participating should make it clear how much I value this site. What I'd add is that this is a community where we can discuss the Caps and hockey as though we aren't on the internet. For the most part we abide by rules of behavior that govern normal human interactions, not internet interactions. At this point the anonymity has been broken among many of us. We've watched the Caps together, drank together, and skated together. This leads to a level of civility and respect that you don't find many places, and the quality of the hockey discussion is enhanced as a result.
What enhances or detracts from your experience on the site?
Gouldie: Just take a look at what gets rec'd, turns green, gets pushed to the top of the FanPosts column: Creativity and cleverness, like F&B's video analysis or Chris meet Alex's Rejected Hockey Cards series, or the songs by Pepper and BradleyFightingVehicle, or YNC's field guide to Backstroms.
First-person accounts, like ChrisAm at development camp, or gotsparkly driving up to Hershey to check on Brian Pothier, or Bald Pollack in Montreal. I always appreciate MikeL's take on the games in the game recap threads. Scott in Shaw's analysis of the wine at Capital Grille was brilliant.
What seems to be happening (as I'm sure Ted Leonsis could have predicted) is that Japers' Rink is becoming the outlet for any Caps fan who wants to create or report or analyze anything related to the team. There are so many folks stopping by, with so many talents and so many different perspectives, that the result almost has to be great. And it is.
BP: Whether it's an author or a reader, the greatest things I've enjoyed are both additional knowledge I didn't have before and/or resources I could go back to several times to help illustrate a prudent discussion point. The things that Gouldie illustrates here not only are unique first-person stories or entertaining anecdotes, they are also done for the longer-term benefit and enjoyment for our Rink friends. Maybe Hershey or Montreal trips will be more prevalent to Rink Rats/Rabbits in the future, or maybe I'll drink more wine as opposed to vodka (that's gotta be healthy, right?). Either way, the more personally enjoyable content is both beneficial and/or designed to stimulate discussion or contribution, and speaking for myself, that's how I approach writing a FanPost or FanShot. For example, having another "trade Semin" or "who to sign and for how much?" thread is nice in intent and I respect the emotion behind it, but if it's been discussed before several times, is it worth discussing again?
Knee High: I would say that things are worth discussing again when new pertinent information emerges that could alter the debate significantly, but seeing three separate, breathless, ‘should we trade Semin?!?!’ fanshots appear two days after the topic was discussed, at great length, in a front-page article is annoying.
Coming back to the point about expanding my hockey knowledge, that’s my single favorite thing about reading The Rink. There’s a wealth of highly accessible (sometimes only so because the authors are so exceptional at making complex subjects clear and understandable) content that should be useful to everyone short of an NHL scout or coaching staff looking to better understand the Caps. Stuff that came on the front page, like the remarkable post about the difference in Semin’s stats when he kills penalties or the truly amazing work done on positional +/-: which zone play starts in and where it ends for particular players. But there’s great content to be had in the sidebars as well – F&B’s breakdown’s, Gouldie’s piece on salary cap escrow and its implications and the work of Natty Bumppo and his twenty frames of fame, establishing that yes, Carlson really did that without looking at the net until the puck was already launched. Further, there’s a huge amount of knowledge to glean from the focused discussions in the comments – think back on the goalie thread; we had seven or eight massive knowledge drops from several different goalies regarding technique and top drawer analysis of what NHL players, including Varlamov were doing.
Stuff like that is my very favorite part of the rink and the density of information here is quite high. The thing that sticks out most as detracting from my experience is getting completely off-topic replying to a post where the focus is supposed to be analysis. It happens a lot and it’s very frustrating to have to wade through two-hundred-plus unrelated (or related to a different hockey topic) posts on a topic just to get to the thoughtful discussion going on somewhere in the comment section. I can’t imagine it’s any fun for the author of said analysis either – I know when I write a fanpost or a long comment, I hope for expansion or dissection of what I put forward, not a riff on peanut butter. Riffing on sandwich filler has its place, but that place isn’t in the comments of a well-researched post detailing Eric Fehr’s abnormally high Corsi rating.
F&B: My experience here is enhanced whenever someone brings new information that I have not previously seen, or when people bring another point of view to something we are discussing. I like having my points challenged, and challenging other peoples' points, because that's how we develop and deepen our understanding of what is going on. Everyone has a unique perspective, and when they are combined we all get to take them under consideration and make a more complete and informed opinion of the issue of the day. I come here to talk hockey, to inform myself, to learn, and to develop my understanding of the Caps and the game. I'm continuously pleased in how well The Rink is able to do that.
What detracts from my experience is when we don't live up to our standard; when we do things that I spent my time battling against on other sites. We don't want people to slander our entire fan base, our team, or make hack arguments about why AO sucks. I don't like seeing the same stuff here. When I'm on another SBN site, two things are basic guarantees to start a battle. First, any trash talk about Japers' Rink. Second, haterific arguments about a Cap that is just devoid of any factual foundation. Telling me that AO isn't the kind of guy you can build an NHL team around, that he belongs in the WWE, will draw a response; or telling me that Nick Backstrom gets fat off second assists. We need to be above that if we want the credibility to challenge other sites when they say crap like that. Don't tell me Crosby sucks, because he doesn't. Don't settle for lazy critiques that are merely a means to vindicate your jealous fanboy emotions. Finally, I know it's obvious and been stated many times, but don't get personal. Address the arguments in front of you; if the argument is that crazy then it should be easy to rebut. You don't need to attack the person because they have a different take on something. We are elites. Act like it.
What would you like the Rink to be?
Gouldie: The problem with this question is that I'm internally conflicted. On one hand, I want Japers' Rink to be the center of the Caps' online community. I want the Rink to get the recognition it deserves for the excellent scholarship and creativity we're seeing. And I want the Rink to stay as open and welcoming and respectful as it has been.
But with that kind of success and openness comes a very heavy burden: more people. Already, many comment threads are getting unmanageable. And the bigger problem is that with more people, you inevitably get folks who don't understand or care about basic online etiquette. The truth is, good online communities don't naturally scale well.
BP: I think the Rink can become even more influential in shaping opinion and impact on team coverage. At this point, the analysis and coverage is the best in town, and it's done without a wide-open tap of information and access to the team. It's not because the team is unwilling; like 99% of online work, those who the contributing are doing it as a hobby or passion. Crossing the bridge into low-paying interweb writer will likely never get crossed, But if we did manage to cross that threshold with regularity at some point, it will be because of the visibility and popularity of the readership as much as it is with the outstanding content. It will be because of the respect we have earned.
Knee high: The Rink is already in a very good place – certainly the preeminent Caps blog in terms of quality content, if not traffic (I don’t know what the numbers look like along those lines). I guess my answer is that I would like fewer comments, but perhaps more words. The Rink is already great for deep work and deep thought – I’d just like it to be even better. A lot of really great stuff gets left on the cutting room floor, so to speak, because we’re too busy responding to the eight new comments that popped up when we were writing the first paragraph – implications missed, lines of reasoning going unexplored. Like I said earlier, the Rink is quality already, but what I want to see most is a doubling down on that commitment from all of us, the commenters, to quality instead of quantity. If we all do that, adding as many new people as can fit on the servers is a bonus, not a detriment.
F&B: I want the Rink to be the example of a sports blog. When people click your profile and see "Japers' Rink," I want them to think "ok, this person knows their stuff, and isn't going to waste my time or troll my site." From an internal perspective, I'd like to see our comments section get a little bit more focused and thoughtful. It's frustrating to see 500 new comments and then find that there are several conversations going on that literally have nothing to do with the Caps, hockey, or anything in the original post.
How do we get there from here?
Gouldie: How do we grow in size as a community while keeping what made this place great in the first place? For one thing, the responsibility is on everyone. Our hosts can't watch everything -- we need to police ourselves. It's about team toughness, instead of any individual.
The avatars thing is a great model. When someone new comes along, it's almost reflexive -- the first thing they see is a recommendation that they get an avatar. Well, we need to do that with some other basic rules. Like if a commenter threadjacks the discussion under an analysis that someone clearly put a lot of time into, then we all need to jump in and recommend that they take the thought to a more appropriate thread, or post a fanshot.
We're already pretty good about respect issues when someone is clearly over the line. But we could be better about more borderline situations, like "Philthy" or "Cindy Crosby." Whatever anyone may individually think of those kinds of insults, the truth is that our hosts have made it clear that they don't like them. And for that reason alone, it needs to stop.
Every one of us has to realize that every comment has a "cost" in time and effort. Don't hit "post" unless you're actually adding something. This is why "This" posts annoy so many of us. It is basically impossible to put less effort into a post than "This" or "rec'd." If you like something, rec' it with the actions button. If you must comment about your appreciation for what was said, then at least put in the effort to add something new. I'm not saying every post has to be a masterpiece. But do hit the preview button, edit a bit, give it some thought before you post.
One last thought: What we're all getting here is free. And any economist will tell you that when something valuable is given away for free, there will be overconsumption. In this context, overconsumption doesn't mean too many eyeballs reading the words. It means too many folks making too much administrative work for our hosts that pulls them away from what they want to be doing (and what we want them to be doing) -- writing great content. My wife still speaks longingly of two internet forums: "squishy" and "chicklit." They were both wonderful, open places that got unmanageable. In both cases, the folks who had been running them (without pay) decided they didn't have enough time and they didn't want to compromise their vision , so all they could do was close down. Each of our hosts has a "day job." They're doing this out of love. We all need to avoid putting too much burden on them, and we need to do some of the heavy lifting ourselves.
BP: There's no doubt that Japers Rink has grown by leaps and bounds in the last few months. Without doing a survey, I'd guess that many of us have come from other areas that were longing for desirable content or whose users were getting into petulant flamewars at the drop of a hat. And like Gouldie alludes to, we should be fine with this current lineup, where we all have each others' backs without bringing in a Carcillo-like banhammer. But banning is going to have to be a viable option if we lose our collective way.
That said, if as a fanbase we're going over to other SBN areas and acting in ways that either go against what our environment is or other users find objectionable, it does two things:
It's disrespecting a blog that many of us found to avoid this behavior. While some may want to throw F&B under this bus for perceived behavior on SBN, in his defense, there's a reason why he has as many (or more) posts on other team's blogs than some have here; he wants to talk about hockey, as we all do. That's one of the reasons why guys like Ben, Hooks and other SBN blog hosts and posters come by as often as they do, it's because of the discussions F&B is starting on "enemy turf."
The other reason why they come by is because, let's face it, the team is exciting and increasingly rising in popularity. And this is the place to come for analysis, humor, insight and community. But as this community increasingly grows, so does its responsibility. Take the time to read the community guidelines on the main page, or J.P.'s reader resolutions for 2009. These are designed to make things a more friendly and easygoing place and give you your own voice. But when your voice uses words that are juvenile and grating (or even go against the guidelines), that voice will likely expect to be called on it and refrain from it. Which leads me to:
Be better than what you see and practice it accordingly. While it may be seemingly utopian, the fact of the matter is that there's a whole host of information and wisdom that you can employ at a moment's notice that's designed to make your enjoyment of the team and those who play on it more pleasurable. And the information gleamed from the Rink should be used to improve your discussions with other hockey fans.
For instance, stick your thumb in the air and check public opinion about a guy like Jeff Schultz from a year ago and compare it to now. That's the type of subtle influence and perception changing that I'd like to think has occurred by gathering reasoned information and analysis and channeling it forward to the larger masses and media outlets in discussion. A small pebble makes a lot of waves in still water, that kind of thing. But the point being is that I strongly believe we can change opinion and perception, and if a 23 year old kid who "can't hit" can earn respect, we can do it within our fanbase as well.
Knee high: When I started around here, there was a saw; we the readers post, then think, then read. I really can’t stress the importance that we all take a little more time to read, then think, then post in that specific order. There’s a lot more of us now than there’ve ever been – it’d be easy to skate along, coasting and not specifically pulling our weight. It’s easy to think "someone else will answer that question" or "someone else will pursue that" or "someone else will do <anything that makes the blog as great as it is>". But the reality is that we all have to get out and push; it all starts with the only thing we can directly control: Our own contributions.
Baldie makes a great point about "being better than what we see and practicing accordingly". Question assumptions, actively participate in discussions and help us all figure out what we’re really seeing on the ice, instead of what one fleeting camera angle showed us. He brought up the prevailing opinion on Jeff Schultz. Next up in my mind is the meme that Mike Green can’t/won’t/doesn’t play defense at all. We, as a collective whole, have the power to change that perception for the better. It takes time and it takes persistence and we’re going to have to ask some really difficult questions that we may not like the answers to in order to hammer out the arguments we need. But that’s why we’re all here, right? To talk hockey in a way that goes beyond the surface and the easy, bare minimum.
All that stuff said, you know what? We got this. I have faith that this community can live up to the mighty standard we’ve set for ourselves so far. In all seriousness, we joke about being elitist, but this really is an elite commentariat. We just need to remember that and perform accordingly.
F&B: Spot on, boys. We, the Rink commentariat, know that the substantive posts are going to keep coming. We're going to get the best Caps analysis you can get, and on a daily basis. So the rest is up to us. Don't be a hypocrite. If you would be pissed if a guy wearing black and orange started telling you that the Crapitals suck, then don't act like that yourself. To be honest, none of those pet names are new or clever. They aren't funny. So what's the point? If we ever want to get to the point where the Rink's exceptional reputation expands to the commenters, then we have to live up to the example set above the line. This applies whether you're playing a home or an away game. Argue intelligently and thoughtfully. Keep your sticks and elbows down, and check that cheap shit at the door.
Thanks to Gouldie, BP, Knee high and F&B for providing honest and thoughtful answers to tough questions, and we'd love to hear from everyone in the comments. We want this blog to be the best it can be, and we try to do our part, as writers and moderators, every day. All we ask in return is that you do yours, and I think this discussion helps to define what that is and isn't. And chances are if you've taken the time and read this far... you're already a doing your part.
Cheers,
Japers' Rink
If this FanPost is written by someone other than one of the blog's editors, the opinions expressed in it do not necessarily reflect those of this blog or SB Nation.
501 comments
|
35 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
Nicely done, all.
It is not just JP, DMG, Becca, Pepper and Tuvan who make this site the best hockey blog, but contributors like our commentors above. Thanks to all of you!
by cuqui on Jan 27, 2010 4:48 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Knee high:
I guess my answer is that I would like fewer comments, but perhaps more words.
I’m going to flout that completely by saying simply what an excellent post this is. Thanks, guys.
"Camaraderie, that's what the Washington Capitals are all about."
by CapitalCentre on Jan 27, 2010 5:00 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Just to say people have been extremely friendly and great for a newbie … I could tell you everything you need to know about competitive archery but hockey, not a lick
by TheFuryUnleashed on Feb 4, 2010 5:12 PM EST up reply actions
You should start an SBN blog for that…
"Camaraderie, that's what the Washington Capitals are all about."
by CapitalCentre on Feb 5, 2010 10:28 PM EST up reply actions
Thank you, guys, for your time and thoughtful discussion/answers. It would probably also be interesting to take a retrospective look at how Rink readers knowledge of hockey developed over these years. Say, there were quite a few various polls, and as far as I remember, nobody has ever tried to look at whether the winning choice in those polls was correct etc.
It’s a great pleasure to be a member of the Rink.
by fnralch on Jan 27, 2010 6:07 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
there were quite a few various polls, and as far as I remember, nobody has ever tried to look at whether the winning choice in those polls was correct etc.
sounds like a cool idea for you to explore in a fanpost! :)
by Natty Bumppo on Jan 27, 2010 8:00 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
While easy to focus on that superb stats and analysis provided by the articles on this site, I think its important not to overlook the enjoyment derived by the wit and snark ingrained in game recaps and morning links. Sometimes subtle, sometimes not, I love Japers’ Rink for its ability to poke fun at our team and players and keep me laughing.
Hockey is a game, and the authors of this site excel at ensuring it remains fun.
by Stormblue on Jan 27, 2010 6:19 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Led By Our Very Own "Young Guns" at the Rink |
Thanks Gouldie, BP, Knee high and F&B for the intelligent and straight shooting perspectives on what we have going on here and what lies ahead. An excellent collaborative “state of the Rink blog”. Very fitting for today.
I don’t know if it’s coincidence, but I had been drafting an email I planned on sending to JP, DMG, BeccaH, StephenPepper and cc’s to GouldOldDays, F&B, Bald Pollack and Knee High. I planned to email this group of Japers’ Rink members b/c I felt they were and still are spearheading the phenomenal movement we have going on at this blog, whether they’re the “Aggregators” as GouldOldDays calls them or our top commentors like Bald Pollack, Knee High, FehrAndBalanced, etc.
I’ll be the first to admit, I’ve had my more than my share of lazy comments (i.e. “This” and “Rec’d”) as well as the cheap shots I don’t have a high tolerance for in other fans. The gist of that email draft, titled 10 Minute Game Misconduct, was more or less an apology and reflection of sorts in that I failed to represent what I admire and have come to respect about Japers’ Rink compared to other blogs. Not to say other Caps-centric blogs aren’t good, as they provide their own lenses on the happenings of all things Caps, but Japers’ Rink is my compass to what is being talked about not only within here but elsewhere that is pertinent, worth reading when it comes to catching up with the Caps and hockey.
That email was also a pledge to represent Japer’s Rink well to my fellow Rink Rats and Rabbits, but to other SBN partnered blogs. If there’s a common denominator between all the blogs, aside from allegiances, we love hockey. A few days ago, I deliberately updated my profile so other users would hopefully see that I share that same love of the sport that other SBN hockey-centric blog members have. First and foremost, I am a hockey fan. I appreciate good and passionate discourse involving just about everything about the game. I appreciate it when other SBN-Hockey blog members like Hooks Orpik, the fellas from PPP, Ben, etc and non-SBN hockey bloggers like Peerless, Eric McErlain, etc drop by and share their perspective. I also appreciate it when fellow Rinkers (FehrAndBalanced, CP2Devil, Fat_daddyo) go to other SBN-Hockey blogs to engage in meaningful discussions if there’s any to be had.
Last and not least, it does pain me a bit when Rinkers are accused of being nothing but a bunch of whiners or trolls. That’s not something I think we are nor would I like to think we’re becoming. I vehemently protested we were anything but a bunch of trolls recently at Pensburgh. But if I had to ask myself squarely in front of a mirror, yes … I am that… sometimes and probably more often than I think. I can also comment and post un-substantial shots. Rightfully or wrongfully, I deleted some FanShots or FanPosts I put up b/c I actually regretted them after I came to my senses and realized I was stooping down to the lowest common denominator … low blows, cheap shit, etc. Apologies JP for going against the Community Guidelines in this case.
With that said, I’ll sign off before this becomes some sort of long winding, misguided dissertation on my qualifications as a Rink member and ambassador. It’s off to see our beloved Caps against the Ducks and damned if I’m late for that! I’ll strive to represent the Rink in a better manner and hopefully will have some measure of success down the road (knock on wood.) Kudos to great FanPost JP and thanks all for reminding me we have something special going on here at the Rink just as we have something special going on in DC (and the greater hockey universe) with the Caps.
All the best,
UF
"My left hand has pretty much turned into a claw anyway."
by Christoph J on Jan 27, 2010 6:33 PM EST reply actions 10 recs
hey UF, i’m sorry too if i ever came across as short or mean-spirited in responding to you. i appreciate all the sentiment in your comment, and the most important thing isn’t that we are always 100% on point, but that we are all dedicated to making the site better.
by Natty Bumppo on Jan 27, 2010 7:09 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Natty B … no worries. I actually can’t recall you or anyone coming across as short or mean-spirited in your response comments. I’m with you in trying to do my part, as a constructive reader and participant, to uphold Japers’ Rink as the best hockey blog out there. Let’s keep it going and see if we can make it even better, for sure!
"My left hand has pretty much turned into a claw anyway."
by Christoph J on Jan 27, 2010 10:35 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Perspective from a Newcomer.
I have been a fan of the game of hockey for years and played since 8th grade. However, I’ve only been a fan of the Capitals for a relatively short time. Honestly, I started following the Capitals at the beginning of last season and only joined Japers’ Rink this summer.
(The apostrophe after the S still confuses me)
Beyond my “on-the-ice” experience, I had basically zero knowledge of the many intricacies of hockey. I was very resistant to anything but watching the NHL while I played. In the past few months, I have learned more about hockey than I have about any subject over the same time-span. From Corsi Ratings to CBA Cap-make ups, from the NHL landscape to the individual players and their tendencies, this blog has been my sole educational tool to everything “off-the-ice”.
I have read plenty of other blogs, skimmed over the content of more than a few boards, and read plenty of sports articles. I feel like I can safely say this is the best blog, certainly the best sports blog, I have come across. The content is brilliant, always well thought out and eloquently written. The diverse community is great and makes sifting through hundreds of comments worth the witty comments or gems of insight you may find. The environment is very welcoming, harboring the inexperience of newcomers, while still holding them to a certain standard of posting. The last thing I want is to embarrassed by any of the contributors above. This standard has forced me to really think about my posts and check if its completely relevant, not already been stated, etc.
That being said, I think the chaos of the GDT should be preserved. They are extremely fun (Cindy an Philthydelphia included, in moderation that is) and enrich my hockey viewing experience. As far as posts/shots and the content the brilliant theologians here at JR post go, I think they will be fine as long as it is understood that we stay on topic for the most part
This is getting a bit long, and if you got this far, thanks for reading my opinion. In the end, this is an amazing place for conversation and argument in general, not just for the best hockey team ever(!!).
Still waiting for someone to draft Paul Newman. . .
by kingzman264 on Jan 27, 2010 6:34 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
i love japers’ rink first and foremost because of how much i’ve learned about the team and the sport over the last ~4 years of reading. i love japers’ rink secondmost because i think most community members value what JP et al. have built here. we’re all friends, and we’re all partners in maintaining the quality and relevance of the site. when we comment outside the site, we are representatives of that same ethos. we are not anonymous. that goes beyond the introductions thread…each commenter, identified only by his/her user name and his/her avatar, leaves behind a record of contributions. we all have our favorite and least-favorite commenters (the editors assembled something of a greatest hits for this roundtable discussion). if you are rude, dismissive or disrespectful to other community members, people will remember you for the wrong reasons. if you are insightful, funny or inquisitive, people will remember you for the right reasons. the reason i’m in full support of the avatar police is because the right side of the screen allows me to quickly identify who’s participating in a thread, and whether i should invest time in reading the conversation.
Gouldie:
Every one of us has to realize that every comment has a “cost” in time and effort. Don’t hit “post” unless you’re actually adding something. This is why “This” posts annoy so many of us. It is basically impossible to put less effort into a post than “This” or “rec’d.” If you like something, rec’ it with the actions button. If you must comment about your appreciation for what was said, then at least put in the effort to add something new. I’m not saying every post has to be a masterpiece. But do hit the preview button, edit a bit, give it some thought before you post.
this?
no, seriously.
i come to this blog to learn about the game. competing opinions are great, but i’d rather read the defenses of the competing opinions. Japers’ Rink encourages commenters to try out a theory by backing it up with something substantive (hence the value of FanPosts, where we the readers get to be the stars and piece together a complete argument from introduction to conclusion). if you’re venting about your job, then you’re not adding to the hockey discussion, you’re detracting from it. if you’re repeating what someone else has already said a few comments up, then you’re not adding to the hockey discussion, you’re detracting from it. if you’re making a blanket statement without even the slightest anecdotal evidence to support your claim, you are going to be asked to expound on the statement. even the most tireless Rink enforcers can be worn down by repeatedly challenging people to go that extra mile. and with such a mass of comments to sift through, an increasing number hollow, off-topic or twee comments are left for thousands of people (a community that goes beyond active commenters) to read. i hate it when i give up on reading through all the posts, because i’m worried i have missed learning something new. but unfortunately, i’ve been using the Shift-A tool more regularly of late.
i can’t claim i haven’t misstepped, and most everyone here has a sharper sense of humor than me…but if you comment, please consider whether your comment is (1) analytic (by which i mean, contains an argument of some kind, and follows up with supporting evidence of some kind), (2) funny/snarky, or (3) helpful in providing information to others. are you contributing to the discussion, or are you just talking aloud? bonus points if you can add to the hockey discussion while also being funny/snarky, because those are the very best comments (and the reason JP leads by a wide margin in the amount of recs received per comment). getting back to the sense of community that JP and the commentariat are attempting to foster here, i also love that readers can post honest questions about hockey—intricacies of gameplay, rules, salary cap, etc.—and actually have them answered with wikipedia-like efficiency. for the most, we all like each other here, and we’re willing to help out newcomers with good intentions.
great work BP, gouldie, knee, F&B. all of the points made stand well on their own, and if you had posted your thoughts down here in the comment section, i would have rec’d each and every one of them.
by Natty Bumppo on Jan 27, 2010 7:00 PM EST reply actions 10 recs
I’m going to echo this as well. Edit your comments, but also edit your thoughts and take a minute to read what you are writing. GDTs may have a slightly different etiquette due to the speed that they move, but on the Clips and Content threads, take some care.
I’ve probably written more posts and then deleted the text than I’ve actually posted because I decided some things just were not worth saying. Other times i rewrite things a few times (this post included) because I wanted to make sure it says what I mean it to say. Sometimes I just delete it, as silence contributes more.
The comments on this site help the day move faster when they are of high quality, I love it and keep it up.
by renstar on Jan 27, 2010 8:03 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Although I’m a newbie, I would like to echo this sentiment. While I grew up watching the Caps, I never took the time to truly understand the game and the associated minutiae. Coming to Japers’ Rink has allowed me to learn more not only about the team I grew up following, but also the game I love to watch. It is because of this blog that I feel like I have a deeper understand of the game as a whole.
I’ve commented very little to date, in part because I find myself cancelling a lot of the things I do write due to others posting thoughts similar to my own. I’ll also be the first to admit that some of the comments I have posted offered little and, in that regard, I am not upholding my end of the agreement here at the Rink. I do think, however, that the suggestion to think, write, edit, and then post is a valuable one. The insightful comments that offer analysis and defense of a position have helped further my understanding, and I would guess that these responses are composed following careful thought and editing. Further, it shows me that if I ever ask a question, I will receive helpful responses instead of condescending remarks that might be common in other corners of the internet. It also encouraged me to visit the blogs of other teams for more discussion and content.
Finally, I second Natty’s characterization of this blog as a community of partners. I value the work J.P. et al. do each day, but I also appreciate the contributions of Rink members. I believe that around the time I made this my first stop in the morning someone pointed out in the comments that it was helpful to observe the interactions in the Rink before jumping into the fray. For me, this was some of the most helpful advice. It ensured that I was aware of some of the general expectations, existing jokes, and the need for an avatar. I think this follows along the line of thinking before posting, but I think it is something that might be helpful to those about to jump into the discussion.
Thanks to everyone who makes this such a great place to learn and follow. Please know that it is appreciated by this newcomer.
by reeselynn on Jan 27, 2010 10:42 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
small addendum:
i realize intelligent minds can disagree, but when a third party pops into a debate between two other people with a “this,” it always seems like the 3rd party is just piling on. like he/she is kind of poking a finger in the eye of the other community member without bothering to justify his/her opinion beyond picking a side.
by Natty Bumppo on Jan 28, 2010 9:56 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
dare i suggest..
would it be possible to elevate this FanPost to the main center-column? i understand that the authors are readers and not editors, but i worry that most of the visitors who would benefit from this stuff are not the regulars that check the sidebars.
by Natty Bumppo on Jan 27, 2010 7:06 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
I second this daring suggestion
"My left hand has pretty much turned into a claw anyway."
by Christoph J on Jan 27, 2010 10:50 PM EST up reply actions
We thought about it, and I’d love for everyone to read it… but it can be a bit intimidating and, frankly, not something that would interest a lot of the readers (lurkers and others). I think it’s great to have it as a reference, though, and I’m glad it’s being so well-received.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
On Second Thought
Good points. Ignore my ignorance. What JP said …
"My left hand has pretty much turned into a claw anyway."
by Christoph J on Jan 27, 2010 10:52 PM EST up reply actions
Also, the more it gets rec’d, the more likely it is to stay on the right sidebar and get seen by casual readers anyway.
Game-Over Green? Canada-Over Carlson!
by Scott in Shaw on Jan 28, 2010 2:35 PM EST up reply actions
In my little corner of the metro area, Caps content (not to mention Hockey content) has always been extremely hard to come by. I came to this site looking for content and found it in spades. I appreciate the hard work and dedication it takes to bring it to those of us who wouldn’t get this kind of quality otherwise. The FanPosts/FanShots show the insight and humor of the commenters as well. Thank you all for what you do everyday.
What amazing date in history are we giong back to today, Mr. Peabody?
by dlw66 on Jan 27, 2010 7:11 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
To add onto the first part of your comment for a second, since the only paper in town will likely never add anything to their hockey coverage in the fall past the beat writer, the urge to get content becomes all the tougher, seeing as how the paper sucks eggs at it.
So, if by extension we’re going to do a better job of disseminating and analyzing that information to and among each other than the paper of record does, since we (the Rink commentariat) do it better than they do, it’s only fair that we hold each other and those we run into at the same level, or at least show patience while we bring them to same.
Sorry for even more ranting, but Steinz annoyed me this morning.
If you don't know how to write or what to think, or have a question about something on an elitist blog, read its community guidelines for assistance.
by Bald Pollack on Jan 28, 2010 7:48 AM EST up reply actions
My interest in hockey truly started last year with more free time at college. I have always known the basics because I am generally a fan of all sports, but since I have found this blog I have developed a knowledge thanks to everyone here that I could not have imagined. The growth of this blog has been amazing, but I agree with others that I wish the threads would more often be focused on the point at hand and hockey in general (I am not perfect in this either and will not claim to be so I will try to improve too). I don’t comment too often, but that is because most of you guys can say what I’m thinking in fewer words and have it make much more sense. Thank you all for this great blog, especially JP, DMG, Becca, Tuvan, and Pepper, but I am sure I have learned something from pretty much every commenter on this blog as well. I really look forward to a chance to be in the area and actually meet some of you, but until then everyone keep up this great blog and of course Lets Go CAPS!
"Ovechkin is as subtle as a shot of vodka."
by i12swim on Jan 27, 2010 7:53 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
JP, have you considered adding some guys (perhaps some of these guys?) as moderators to help clean up the threads some and keep order? Some of the CIedity is starting to show up a lot more often, particularly in the game day threads.
Yes, definitely. In fact, the four gents who helped out on this post would be great mods. But we’re hoping that this FanPost can be an intermediate step. If things don’t get a little better, though, we’ll deputize some Young Guns.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
Have you sent out emails to repeat offenders? (hope I’m not one of them)
"Dozens of people spontaneously combust each year. It's just not really widely reported."
by Laich It Or Lump It on Jan 27, 2010 10:53 PM EST up reply actions
we’ll deputize some Young Guns.
Ageist…
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Jan 27, 2010 11:24 PM EST up reply actions
For me, the Rink is the main link back to the team I had loved for the past 20+ years. Its a community. A gathering place. A watering hole for the hockey-thirsty.
Although I am an infrequent poster (I try to avoid unnecessary commentary, and often find myself canceling posts because I feel it doesn’t add enough to conversation), I read the Rink daily, hit refresh for the like crazy for the recaps on Game Day (even when I do manage to see a broadcast on either Yahoo or Versus), and take joy in seeing so many other caps fans gathered together.
Thank you. Keep up the good work, J.P. and co.
Caps fan in Minnesota
by ennisj471 on Jan 27, 2010 8:07 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
I am rec’ing the hell out of all of these posts. I know I am guilty of some of the things you all have mentioned above, and for that I apologize. I think with the exponential growth this site has seen we may want to take a tip from PPP and do OT threads each day (they do Chatty Cathys), so we can keep the hockey posts more manageable. I guess it’s a fine line when you build a community that gels so well that people can’t stop commenting.
I love this place.
I have a C on my heart.
by boutros23 on Jan 27, 2010 10:43 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
I think with the exponential growth this site has seen we may want to take a tip from PPP and do OT threads each day (they do Chatty Cathys), so we can keep the hockey posts more manageable. I guess it’s a fine line when you build a community that gels so well that people can’t stop commenting.
Yep. We’ve thought about the Chatty Cathys as well, but didn’t want to turn the site into something that needed constant policing (“This goes here, that goes there, etc.”). But it’s certainly on the table.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
My problem with that is that most of our discussions are organic and it would be awkward having to move the conversation over to OT.
The community as it is now is a part of why this place is so awesome. I’ve been involved in a lot of online forums and this one easily takes the cake in terms of community. We’ve cultivated something that, in my opinion, and of course I’m biased, is a very friendly engaging place. JP retweeted a few days ago:
@VTcaps I should probably join @JapersRink’s community and stop being a stalker. Seems like there’s lots of friends to be made.
That means a good lot to me, and it should mean a lot to every single poster. While we need to clean up the philth (see what I did there?) in general it’s gone in the right direction.
Tom Brady is Sidney Crosby, except Tom Brady has felt the touch of a woman, and has his own house.
by Ovechwin on Jan 27, 2010 11:26 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
My problem with that is that most of our discussions are organic and it would be awkward having to move the conversation over to OT.
Agreed.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
What happened to no more “This” posts. Just saying.
by Bushwood Bushwhacker on Jan 28, 2010 10:57 AM EST up reply actions
What are you just saying? That an editor of the blog pointing out to everyone else a point with which he agrees and was in direct response to a comment he had made is akin to “this”?
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
I agree that “This” or “Agreed” posts are appropriate sometimes. I just thought we were curtailing them per your request!
I’m just messing around here. I don’t mean to always come off as a prick.
by Bushwood Bushwhacker on Jan 28, 2010 11:16 AM EST up reply actions
See, I don’t see where it hurts anything, the only inconvenience it brings you is to press the z key.
Tom Brady is Sidney Crosby, except Tom Brady has felt the touch of a woman, and has his own house.
by Ovechwin on Jan 28, 2010 11:20 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
It’s one thing IMO to point out the golden line in a long comment, another to “This” a one sentence comment.
Ovechkin = Green Backs
by red army line on Jan 28, 2010 11:35 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Right. Of course, no one should “this” every time they agree with something, but if, say, some has an extremely well-phrased thought that HASN’T already gotten a ton of attention, I have no problem with a “this”. It’s a super-rec.
by sixsevenfiftysix on Jan 28, 2010 12:23 PM EST up reply actions
A “This” commenter doesn’t bring more attention to whatever comment they’re “This’ing”, they’re bringing more attention to themselves, which isn’t needed. Why should I care that someone agrees with a comment, but doesn’t elaborate or add to it?
I put much more stock in seeing the small, gray font start counting up from zero.
First of all, I completely disagree with your assessment of what a “this” brings attention to.
Second, if you’re quickly z-ing through comments, you’re not going to see the impact of any recs unless it goes green.
There’s a time and a place for “this”, without a doubt.
by sixsevenfiftysix on Jan 28, 2010 3:46 PM EST up reply actions
I tend to use it when somebody I’m discussing a topic with crystallizes my opinion in a way I hadn’t been able to. I don’t think it’s a good idea to leap into a thread with a sporadic “this,” but it has it’s uses.
My ability to post is only surpassed by my ability to pinch pennies.
This. Just kidding. But indeed, I tend to “this” when someone basically gives a well-worded comment that clearly states my point of view (better than I had been able to). Which is what you just did.
by sixsevenfiftysix on Jan 28, 2010 4:14 PM EST up reply actions
Thing is, if everyone who is "this"ing or "rec’d"ing actually used the rec button, more things would go green. All too often several people say “rec’d”, but the comment will only have a fraction of actual recs.
I will agree that “this” does have a time and place (but these are far and few in between).
Caps fan in Minnesota
Honestly, though, very few comments deserve more than the spoken Rec. The really good/funny stuff gets greened, already.
by DrinkingPartner on Jan 29, 2010 7:57 AM EST up reply actions
I disagree. I think that the sparing use of Rec (and I’m guilty of it) means less content gets highlighted. I’m torn. I see both sides of the Rec issue.
On one hand I like the fact that only REALLY special comments go green, on the other hand this thread shows that a bunch of green is pretty neat (and easy to read great commentary) in it’s own right. Torn.
PuckDaddy be damned, I'm putting CincoCinco on the back of a Schultz jersey!
by Chris meet Alex on Jan 29, 2010 3:57 PM EST up reply actions
I rec anything that makes me laugh, or anything that makes me think “couldn’t have said it better myself.” I probably rec a lot compared to others. I don’t think it impacts how many posts go green, though. It takes 5 people to have the same thought to turn something green. 1 just signals that someone else out there is on the same page. I figure if you echo my thoughts or make me laugh, you deserve some appreciation.
Now let's say you and I go toe to toe on bird law and see who comes out the victor.
I'll buy those reasons for rec'ing.
And in general I think I’m buying the “loose” rec more.
Having read completely through this post (lo the many hours it has taken), everything that’s green (and there’s more green here than on any post I’ve ever seen) has been great. Accordingly I’ve Rec’d more on this post than any other by a mile, and I feel better now.
My therapist would be proud.
PuckDaddy be damned, I'm putting CincoCinco on the back of a Schultz jersey!
by Chris meet Alex on Jan 29, 2010 5:09 PM EST up reply actions
So much of this is win. Frankly, there’s a line on which posts are good for being organic, and which are not. A specific post, bad. A game thread or a morning reading list? Let it be spontaneous, I feel.
Familiar Rapports: Bald Pollack, F&B, Gould Old Days.
Lobbies: Osala, Perreault, Erskine, Pothier, Neuvirth, Flash.
Fan of: Mean Lars Backstrom, Line Mashing, Cake.
A while back I asked JP if he was doing a fresh batch of Rink Resolutions this year. He responded with:
Good idea. An equally good, perhaps better idea, would be a FanPost by a reader/commentor on how you guys can uphold your end of the bargain.
I considered it briefly, but decided it would be too preachy. Plus, who am I to make resolutions for the Rink? However, this seems like as good of a time as any to pitch some personal resolutions, so here is my take. Take it of leave it.
- Keep off topic subjects in the Caps Clips. When posting in the Clips, try not to create long spam threads with no actual content.
- Rec FanPosts and FanShots that obviously took a lot of time, effort, and research. It’s a simple gesture that lets the author know his/her work is appreciated. A word of encouragement in the comments also goes a long way, even if it doesn’t add to the discussion.
- Keep the ratio of hockey comments to non-hockey comments in check. This is first and foremost a hockey blog.
- Before posting an image, link, etc., think if it is appropriate for all to view. Many of us read at work and certain content is inappropriate for this situation. Common courtesy.
So there are a couple of my personal resolutions for both myself and as a suggestion for others. Feel free to suggest additional ones.
"Dozens of people spontaneously combust each year. It's just not really widely reported."
by Laich It Or Lump It on Jan 27, 2010 11:11 PM EST reply actions 7 recs
To me Japers’, at its most fundamental level, is a great community and the epitome of a hockey blog.
Basically, I think this place would really fall apart without the articles\recaps\and translations provided by the Japers’ team. That’s what keeps everyone coming back in the first place and the lurkers probably make up a much larger percentage of the traffic than the active community.
With that said, I think the commenting is what makes me visit so much and that’s an area that could use some work.
Since the beginning of this season I’ve been turned off from making much of an effort to construct intelligent posts on a regular basis because there is an 80% chance someone is going to reply making a lame joke which derails the whole post into a 5 hour discussion about timing belts.
The intellectual and well constructed posts seem to be an afterthought to a constant attempt at comedy hour.
That’s not to say I don’t like the jokes – I do – and I’m obviously a participant. I just think there needs to be a bigger balance especially with some people that really do nothing except post 1-liners to as many posts as possible.
The Hunt for Irrelevant Rec’d Green Posts is a good way to sum it up.
The rink is already what I want it to be and that’s why I spend so much time here. We can only hope, while also making an individual effort, to keep the quality at a professional level.
I look to the future because that's where I'm going to spend the rest of my life.
by zephyr on Jan 28, 2010 12:40 AM EST reply actions 8 recs
Since the beginning of this season I’ve been turned off from making much of an effort to construct intelligent posts on a regular basis because there is an 80% chance someone is going to reply making a lame joke which derails the whole post into a 5 hour discussion about timing belts.
The intellectual and well constructed posts seem to be an afterthought to a constant attempt at comedy hour.
That’s not to say I don’t like the jokes – I do – and I’m obviously a participant. I just think there needs to be a bigger balance especially with some people that really do nothing except post 1-liners to as many posts as possible.
The Hunt for Irrelevant Rec’d Green Posts is a good way to sum it up.
Yes, absolutely.
I get that most of these one-liner threads are “organic” and that stifling organic conversations is not something that we want to do. However, not all organic is created equal. 30 references to the same movie in a row is organic, but not useful and not particularly funny, engaging, or good for the site. It’s especially aggravating in response to an intelligent and thought-out post with one line that might be a double-entendre if you stretch it until it hollers and then shoe-horn a reference to a movie or music album into the response.
Only YOU can prevent idiots from commenting!
by Knee high to a duck on Jan 29, 2010 5:53 PM EST up reply actions
The Good, The Bad, and The Really Bad
I’ll make my positive comments quick, because those aren’t as interesting:
This blog is insanely, compulsively comprehensive of all things capitals. The original translations are gems, the enthusiasm and activity of readers is 99% percentile. The management is good. This is an outstanding blog by almost any measure.
However, it has two major weaknesses:
- Actual hockey talk is stunted by the chatroom atmosphere. (Aside: I get it. I’m not a d-bag or an idiot. This is the internet and people come here to have a good time and post— not always necessarily about hockey. But I browse during work, so wading through the whatever to get to the thoughtful comments takes time. And yes, I recognize that it’s better than most blogs or forums, but maybe try having a general thread everyday for goofing around? Or better yet, have separate daily threads for just hockey talk that are strictly moderated.)
- Despite those who alluded to or directly said that the Rink excels at providing “analysis”… I would respectfully disagree. In fact, I would love to see posts that demonstrated anything close. The most interesting analysis I’ve seen on this blog was, FnBs fanpost , and even his thesis was bland and he made few mistakes. Yet, in that attempt to dissect some tape he had surpassed the Rink’s YTD analysis.
What is original on the rink is artistic. Prose about struggling, streaking or blossoming players. Pepper’s stuff. Awesome. But I am always left wanting more when it comes to next level discussion with statistics and hypotheses about front office deals and player performance.
Even the Fehr piece a few days ago… thoughtful, (prodigious even), but not analysis and not original. That stuff was two clicks away on NHL.com, and I’m betting most of us knew the jist of the content already.
I’m pretty sure what I am trying to say can be most clearly summed up by the fact there is no post on who we may pick up at the trade deadline (there was a crap one a while back). Possibly the biggest factor yet to be determined in this season (second to what goalie starts game 1 of the playoffs), and after all the drama that lead up to how we came to be with a few million to wheel and deal with…
Things that could be discussed in this post that doesn’t exist but should:
-math on teams likelihood of being far enough out of the playoff hunt come the deadline
-exactly how much cap room we would have open with a hypothetical playoff roster
-what type(s) of player we would like to pick up
-which teams above noted have UFAs (or RFAs) that fit the profile and have contracts ending this year (or not!)
-what we are willing to part with depending on the quality of the return
-what makes a team more or less likely to trade players at the deadline (unhappy(Souray), overvalued thus less incentive to resign(Johnsson))
-plus a ton more factors, internal and external
then put all the pieces together to come up logical conclusions. shake it out to a realistic 5 or so guys for rentals, then throw in another few targets that could be involved in actual trades with contracted players for 10-11.
I guess I’m just saying, this RInk love- fest is great, but there is a dimension of this blog that could be vastly better. As a newsfeed and catchall, it’s the best, with a distant second. For original analysis.. not so much. BB would tell this blog he doesn’t care how good it is, it needs to improve what needs improving…
Yikes, tldr.
by Bushwood Bushwhacker on Jan 28, 2010 12:48 AM EST reply actions
curious why you discount corsi ratings in some of your other posts if you’re so thirsty for next-level analysis?
by Natty Bumppo on Jan 28, 2010 1:06 AM EST up reply actions
The last time I saw “corsi rating” dropped was referring to Semin getting hammered in the Detroit game. I was there, and I thought he played well (sans the drop pass to backstrom that lead to a goal.) We were outshot something like 46 to 25ish. People were going to be pounded by corsi regardless, and Sasha had as little control as you could have against limiting those shots against him, and played an offense game that night where he wasn’t just ripping shots mindlessly, but he was trying to facilitate play around him, but unsuccessfully at times because of great defensive positioning by the Wings.
Basically, it was the most meaningless time to drop corsi I could imagine.
by Bushwood Bushwhacker on Jan 28, 2010 10:45 AM EST up reply actions
Corsi was just discussed in the NYI post game thread. If you feel like it is being used at meaningless times, why don’t you bring up the subject when appropriate?
"Dozens of people spontaneously combust each year. It's just not really widely reported."
by Laich It Or Lump It on Jan 28, 2010 10:59 AM EST up reply actions
Japers’ has plenty of statistical analysis. I guess you are saying you want more in-depth play analysis and subjective surface scratching? I agree that there could be more things like that.
I guess I haven’t missed them since I sort of tend to make those observations and thoughts myself while I more tend to be interested in the statistical writing strength that is displayed here since that isn’t something I’d take the time to do myself.
Also, have you missed a lot of posts because running down your bullet list most of those things have been covered pretty well and are revisited a few times.
I look to the future because that's where I'm going to spend the rest of my life.
The most recent post about potential trades had zero analysis. It was a list (not original) created in an a ridiculously illogical and topical way (1 player per team.. divided per conference…)
It was basically useless.
by Bushwood Bushwhacker on Jan 28, 2010 10:40 AM EST up reply actions
It was not “basically useless.” It was meant to serve as a primer and a discussion point going forward. Basically, “here are some guys to keep an eye on.” It is far enough away from the trade deadline that I would not expect anything more in depth on the subject. Stay tuned and I bet you will see some more in depth analysis as the deadline draws near. No need to insult DMG’s hard work.
"Dozens of people spontaneously combust each year. It's just not really widely reported."
by Laich It Or Lump It on Jan 28, 2010 11:04 AM EST up reply actions
Didn’t mean to insult DMG in the least, but the list created by The Hockey Times dude just screamed of… “not for actual hockey analysis. only use for topical reading purposes only.” I mean… it’s interesting (kind of) to pick one guy from each team as potential trading block fodder… but there’s no logic to it.
If the majority of players you target aren’t UFAs with contracts up next season, on teams that are likely going to be out of the playoffs… then why am I reading?
by Bushwood Bushwhacker on Jan 28, 2010 11:08 AM EST up reply actions
It was a launching point for discussion, and most of us here think that there’s value in that.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
Didn’t mean to insult DMG in the least
well, you did call it a “crap” post.
by Natty Bumppo on Jan 28, 2010 12:31 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Touche. It was crap in terms of the expectations that I had of a post about prospective trades, but the post itself wasn’t crap. If that makes sense.
by Bushwood Bushwhacker on Jan 28, 2010 1:01 PM EST up reply actions
To be fair, it was done months away from the trade deadline. My view is that if even legitimate NHL insiders so frequently make conflicting reports over who’s available and who’s not, how could you expect the staff here to be able to do a truly comprehensive look that far away from any major trades?
Now, if a Rink writer does something more specifically targeted towards the Caps, without a one-and-only-one-for-each-and-every-team restriction, during the Olympic break, that has potential to be a fantastic post.
by sixsevenfiftysix on Jan 28, 2010 1:06 PM EST up reply actions
I'll just go ahead and quote Natty Bumppo here
sounds like a cool idea for you to explore in a fanpost! :)
And this goes for everyone. If you think something is lacking, or you’d like to see it explored more, then either a) raise it in the comments and see if you can’t help the discussion evolve (I don’t think BWBW’s points about trade partners would be considered threadjacking DMG’s posts) or b) go put it in a FanPost. The beauty of this place is that the readers do have that ability.
Now let's say you and I go toe to toe on bird law and see who comes out the victor.
by Rob Parker on Jan 28, 2010 2:27 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
wading through the whatever to get to the thoughtful comments takes time.
On this note I propose we stop the posting after goals, so many useless comments to wade through!
Tom Brady is Sidney Crosby, except Tom Brady has felt the touch of a woman, and has his own house.
My problem with that is that most of our discussions are organic and it would be awkward having to move the conversation over to OT.
This. I-I’m sorry, I hate it when it does that, I’m sorry. Excuse me… (2 minute minor for delay of game)
Kidding aside, I concur with Ovechwin’s point. To a degree. The challenge we have in front of us as a community, as JP put it in his intro, is that as we continue to get bigger, it certainly gets trickier to maintain the integrity of “what has helped us to grow in the first place, namely offering the very best place to discuss the Caps with the best-informed Caps fans.” How do we achieve that balancing act of keeping the integrity without losing the organic quality of our discussions? After all, they are ongoing discussions in the vein of a conversation … not a dissertation, thesis, etc. Of course, I ask this rhetorically as I don’t know of any viable solutions to suggest.
On this note I propose we stop the posting after goals, so many useless comments to wade through!
This a tough one … My cranium agrees with the rationale of this but my heart, as a fan, begs to differ. I’m sure everyone, as well as I, find it pretty it pretty emotional when a goal is scored. Or for that matter, a hit is dished out … a beautiful pass is made … a little pugilistic tango … a cheap penalty … a phenomenal save in the realm of grand larceny and robbery, etc. The list goes on. It’s ice hockey. Who doesn’t compulsively yell out nonesense, mutter curses to the nth degree, sigh, or lean on the edge of their seats couches whenever a cardiac moment happens? It’s these cardiac moments … the sudden switch of momentum, the back and forth of a tilt that make us passionate about the game and conversely the game played by the team we stand behind, namely the Caps. Again I have can’t offer an alternative solution off the top of my head at the moment but just my two cents for what they’re worth.
Yep. We’ve thought about the Chatty Cathys as well, but didn’t want to turn the site into something that needed constant policing ("This goes here, that goes there, etc."). But it’s certainly on the table.
Lack of the need for constant policing is what I appreciate here. And I hope it stays that way and this is not to say their shouldn’t be any kind/gentle reminders or guidance to newer members when members of the community see things getting out of line or compromising the integrity of the content of Japers’ Rink. Again, this goes back to JP and others’ point that as the community grows, it’ll get trickier. Just alone the sheer amount of involvement it would require for our “Aggregators” to constantly shepherd or police during each and every GDTs or any other discussion going on would be unrealistic to expect. With that said, I am all for “deputies” or the senior participating members of the community to take it upon themselves to keep things in check but I’d like to think this doesn’t need to be some appointed formal thing. I hope, as is the case with most communities (be it online or in the “real world”), a culture develops in which there are expectations in terms of interactions, etc and natural “leaders” of the community come to the forefront to set examples not unlike the small community that is the Caps players and their teammates.
Anyways, two more cents for the time being … I’m sure I’ll be keeping up with this particular worthwhile discussion frequently.
Work calls …
"My left hand has pretty much turned into a claw anyway."
by Christoph J on Jan 28, 2010 10:26 AM EST up reply actions
How do we achieve that balancing act of keeping the integrity without losing the organic quality of our discussions?
Now let's say you and I go toe to toe on bird law and see who comes out the victor.
Fail so hard
How do we achieve that balancing act of keeping the integrity without losing the organic quality of our discussions?
I think it just comes down to restraint. When you see the first person make a continuity joke, do we need 30 more of the same joke made in quick succession? Sometimes it’s best to just admire the original joke, and move along.
Now let's say you and I go toe to toe on bird law and see who comes out the victor.
I think you misunderstand my point. GDT threads are awesome, and that’s exactly where the chatroom stuff should be.
by Bushwood Bushwhacker on Jan 28, 2010 10:32 AM EST up reply actions
The fact someone took my suggestion seriously amazes me.
Tom Brady is Sidney Crosby, except Tom Brady has felt the touch of a woman, and has his own house.
Your sarcasm was clear. But your comment was directed at my comment about wading through crap. I don’t wade through GDT because there isn’t hockey discussion, it’s people having a good time.
If your comment was totally for comedy and you didn’t mean to comment materially on my post at all, then I apologize!
by Bushwood Bushwhacker on Jan 28, 2010 11:25 AM EST up reply actions
There is hockey discussion actually, it's there, I swear!
It’s more my frustration manifesting. It definitely wasn’t for comedy.
Tom Brady is Sidney Crosby, except Tom Brady has felt the touch of a woman, and has his own house.
I hear ya. I guess I just get frustrated with wading through the goofing off to get to the hockey. It’s a rough ratio sometimes.
by Bushwood Bushwhacker on Jan 28, 2010 11:30 AM EST up reply actions
I hear you. Ctrl Z and Shift A has to be some of sickest moves that Ovechwin and others here at the Rink taught me when confronted by waves of those aggressive, nasty, irrelevant “goofing off” comments that seemingly forecheck and trap the hell outta you .
In all seriousness, it has been discussed elsewhere that collapsible comment generated sub-threads could be an option but isn’t currently a feature that exists in SBN. At least to my knowledge.
"My left hand has pretty much turned into a claw anyway."
by Christoph J on Jan 28, 2010 11:40 AM EST up reply actions
In all seriousness, it has been discussed elsewhere that collapsible comment generated sub-threads could be an option but isn’t currently a feature that exists in SBN. At least to my knowledge.
Some of us have requested these as a feature. They are not available yet, but an easy way to move things up the line is to e-mail support@sbnation.com and request them yourself. The more people who want it, the more likely it is to get done.
Thanks. I’ll get right on top of that.
"My left hand has pretty much turned into a claw anyway."
by Christoph J on Jan 28, 2010 11:47 AM EST up reply actions
But I like those posts, and all of what some I’m sure would consider frivolous comments, in the Open Game Day threads. They are a big part of why I love coming here.
My perception, as a hockey and Japers’ rink newbie, is that there seem to be two different types of threads here — analytical and casual — with their own commenting “rules”. In short, you don’t get goofy in a thread with a bunch of numbers and you don’t get too serious in an OGD thread.
The beauty of the OGD threads is that they act just like a conversation among friends sitting in someone’s living room watching the game on the big screen. When the Caps score, I expect a fleet of posts just like I’d expect a big outburst from everyone watching in the living room. It’s part of the experience here and I think it’s an important part of what makes the OGDs the place to be (aside from the Phonebooth) during a game. I actually look forward to being able to watch the game with the comments scrolling by, sometimes at breakneck speed, on my computer screen. I’m watching the game I’m coming to love quite a bit with people who are becoming my friends.
I know that the useless comments grate sometimes, but for folks like me, all the noise just means that there are hockey friends about.
by jimmiebjr on Jan 28, 2010 1:09 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
were you around for gouldie’s “spend ted leonsis’s money” post or for DMG’s look at eastern and western conference players that might be available at the deadline (in context of caps’ needs)? because the commentariat pretty much nailed mike knuble last summer, and JP called brendan morrison before i’d even considered him a possibility. (also, JP discusses the type of player we should pursue in multiple comments and also in his interview on 106.7.) i’m guessing the editors have a lot more deadline-related material in store as we get closer in, but at this time, with so many teams still in play for the playoffs, why not focus on the things we can realistically observe?
what about the DMG’s regular check-in on offensive and defensive prospects and how they might fit with the big club? going back further, JP was banging the shift-length drum before anyone, and he had original articles on quality of competition numbers and production in duos and trios during the summer. if you’re looking more for gameplay analysis, maybe the article on nicklas backstrom and faceoffs? i guess like zephyr says above, i’m not sure how you define “analysis,” but i can’t believe there are other team blogs available that are any more successful at moving past MSM-level insight than japers’ rink. it goes without saying, but if you would like to tackle some of your bullet points yourself via FanShots, everyone would support you (although topics like “which players would we be wiling to give up” and “which players could be available” have certainly been discussed ad naseum, as has cap room, albeit not down to the dollar).
[this comment may or may not have been an excuse for me to go back and re-read some of my favorite posts from the past year.]
by Natty Bumppo on Jan 28, 2010 1:48 AM EST up reply actions 11 recs
Bless you, Natty
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Jan 28, 2010 2:25 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
i’ll accept the rec, but those were legit questions for bushwhacker. is he not familiar with some of the blog’s past content, and if he is, i’d like to hear how the specific posts linked fail to meet his definition of “original analysis.”
by Natty Bumppo on Jan 28, 2010 2:47 AM EST up reply actions
I agree — thus the "bless you.’ I was preparing a response, but yours was much better. Spot on.
The only thing I’d add for BWBW is this: if you think something around here is missing, often the best approach is to try to fill in the gap yourself. Even if you only go part of the way, folks have a tendency to pick up the slack and finish the job. Look at the fanpost conversation between fat_daddyo and D’ohboy about the pythagorean theorem. If you lead the way, often others will follow.
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Jan 28, 2010 8:39 AM EST up reply actions
I just wonder why you bothered preparing a response? I saw the original post and my first though was “I bet Natty has a whole list of posts down below, I’m just going to address the line directed at me.” Of course, Natty didn’t let me down.
Now let's say you and I go toe to toe on bird law and see who comes out the victor.
I’ll admit that I’ve only begun religiously reading the rink about 3-4 months ago, so if there used to be analysis and I’ve missed those posts, I apologize. Like the article about line matching shows some insight, but that was 6 months ago. If they could
Listing stats on prospects is not analysis. It’s summary. The Backstrom faceoff graph… is a graph. A summary of stats.
Gould’s spend Ted Leonsis’ money doesn’t begin to touch on the multitude of factors that go into two teams executing a trade.
In your “nailed” link, I see Knuble in a list of 10 guys, and no BMo. I will take your word that JP “nailed” these moves before they happened… but that doesn’t mean there shouldn’t be a comprehensive post that gets updated weekly about our impending trade deadline move, because you know there’s going to be one.
by Bushwood Bushwhacker on Jan 28, 2010 10:56 AM EST up reply actions
that doesn’t mean there shouldn’t be a comprehensive post that gets updated weekly about our impending trade deadline move, because you know there’s going to be one.
Sounds like a great idea for a FanPost. Have at it.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
by J.P. on Jan 28, 2010 11:12 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Which is exactly what Natty said above:
if you would like to tackle some of your bullet points yourself via FanShots, everyone would support you (although topics like "which players would we be wiling to give up" and "which players could be available" have certainly been discussed ad naseum, as has cap room, albeit not down to the dollar).
"Dozens of people spontaneously combust each year. It's just not really widely reported."
by Laich It Or Lump It on Jan 28, 2010 11:14 AM EST up reply actions
I know. But I am lazy and selfish. I want things done for me.
But really, this weekend. I’ll have something up that hopefully people will enjoy. It has to do with Jeff Schultz. :)
by Bushwood Bushwhacker on Jan 28, 2010 11:20 AM EST up reply actions
And BWBW, if you have any specific requests, post ‘em. Someone may do it. For example, if it has to do with the salary cap and it interests me, chances are I’ll write something up.
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Jan 28, 2010 11:24 AM EST up reply actions
Sounds great. I’m all about collaboration here. There are a lot of passionate, intelligent people here.
by Bushwood Bushwhacker on Jan 28, 2010 11:26 AM EST up reply actions
I’m all about collaboration here.
But I am lazy and selfish. I want things done for me.
Now let's say you and I go toe to toe on bird law and see who comes out the victor.
by Rob Parker on Jan 28, 2010 2:39 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Yea, I was kidding… I am just busy. I am going to stop talking the talk.. and start writing.
by Bushwood Bushwhacker on Jan 28, 2010 2:57 PM EST up reply actions
I’d also recommend that you manage your expectations – every one of us (the writers) has a full-time job and we do what we do in our spare time. For “fun.”
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
by J.P. on Jan 28, 2010 11:30 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
In your "nailed" link, I see Knuble in a list of 10 guys, and no BMo. I will take your word that JP "nailed" these moves before they happened
scroll down and check out the comments on the “nailed” link, and you’ll see that a large majority of the commentariat quickly agreed knuble was the ideal target…which is what i said, that “the commentariat pretty much nailed mike knuble last summer.”
BMo is the chosen picture, and he is described as the best option by JP in the “JP called brendan morrison” link…sorry, i thought that was pretty clear.
by Natty Bumppo on Jan 28, 2010 12:30 PM EST up reply actions
I’ve only begun religiously reading the rink about 3-4 months ago
It needs to be pointed out that an NHL blog is only as good as the product it’s blogging about.
Look at the comments/activity on SBN for NHL teams that aren’t doing well some time. It’s kind of sad.
The Caps will not always be this talented/cohesive/exciting any more than they will become cellar dwellers for the rest of their existence after this season.
The number of active commenters will stabilize, fall to significantly lower levels, and rise to significantly higher levels. So like all things this too shall pass. And return. And pass again…
I would recommend SBN add indicators next to commentors’ names every time they make a comment.
- the long timers (statistically compared to fellow JR members)
- high number commenters (for a season, or all-time)
- First time or low count commenters
- And a peer rating indicator
The numbers for such indicators are all there as we’ve recently been reminded.
In this way we can help each other – the new guy who wants to take a quick cheap shot at the long-time poster with the high peer-rating may want to think twice. The long-timer may want to cut the new guy a little slack, help him out, or protect his rating.
This would help maintain order passively, with no additional work on the bloggers or the members once in place.
It works no matter how many or how few members a given SBN team has.
And it improves the quality of SBN over other options people have for all teams/sports.
blah, blah…
"I'm not adopted and I'm not an Indian. It's just a coincidence that I have a love of gambling and booze and a knack for catching syphilis." -Jerri Blank
by Icebat on Jan 28, 2010 1:06 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
- a peer rating indicator
I don’t see what that accomplishes other than alienating members and turning this into a popularity contest.
Tom Brady is Sidney Crosby, except Tom Brady has felt the touch of a woman, and has his own house.
by Ovechwin on Jan 28, 2010 1:10 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Maybe you’re right, or maybe you’d be surprised.
Seems like if they actually tried lots of things they could then scale it back. It’s not like if 100 people said you were great you’d be rated any higher than if 3 people said you were great. These ratings usually start out with everybody being okay and it takes a lot of strong ratings to push you to one extreme or the other
But in case of point, this is the only suggested indicator that could not be obtained via hard unbiased statistics.
It’s just perhaps when you’re throwing out ideas I find it’s good not to, um, throw out ideas ; )
"I'm not adopted and I'm not an Indian. It's just a coincidence that I have a love of gambling and booze and a knack for catching syphilis." -Jerri Blank
They can use rec’s to generate a peer rating.
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Jan 28, 2010 1:22 PM EST up reply actions
That would presumably be an upward only indicator? That makes rec’s sound like a popularity contest to me, no? A peer rating (as I pictured the suggestion) would be more of the like and dislike variety.
"I'm not adopted and I'm not an Indian. It's just a coincidence that I have a love of gambling and booze and a knack for catching syphilis." -Jerri Blank
Maybe a star system to rate comments and posts and some sort of indicator that takes quantity as well?
Ovechkin = Green Backs
by red army line on Jan 28, 2010 1:55 PM EST up reply actions
I just elaborated on this below. I think it’s worth thinking/talking about.
Game-Over Green? Canada-Over Carlson!
by Scott in Shaw on Jan 28, 2010 2:54 PM EST up reply actions
Okay - to lay it out a little
I just realized I lost my reply to this in the great cut and paste black hole
The following data is already available:
- How many members JR has
- How many total posts JR has
- How many total posts for a given season JR has
- The dates each member joined
- The number of posts each member has submitted
- The last time each member submitted a post
- How many posts a given member has submitted per season
With this information alone formulas could be created (for any SBN site based on percentages of membership and posts)
- What makes a person “new”? It’s not simply about posts: If a person submits 1 post per season but has been a member for 2 years they are not “new”
- What makes a person a true Rink Rat? Is it just that they posted 20000 entries in the last month?
My opinion laid out:
- as much as 25% of this or any community should be considered statistically “new”
With that high a number newbie posts are not automatically “newbie” posts.
- I personally don’t like stars, half a star or 5 star attributes are annoying for me to see attached to people. I like shapes and colors. Gold, Blue, and Green, and Circles, Squares, and Triangles.
- I think if we have the ability to rec we should have the ability to dis too. I don’t know that we need a visible rec or dis count, the color we already see when a certain number is hit should be sufficient. If you really like it, rec it. If you absolutely hate it dis it.
(Just to put a little meat behind the concept as I see it)
By the way, lest my comment here be taken the wrong way, I haven’t felt the need of a peer rating. I’m not pushing for it. Just seemed like the obvious way to do it to me, if people did want such a thing.
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Jan 28, 2010 2:00 PM EST up reply actions
I think people who typically think before sending will not find much value here.
But, between these people’s well-thought out posts and cool-headed responses, if they don’t like reading threadjacks, arguments, juvenile statements/attacks, thoughtless/meaningless statements, etc, then these people may find they benefit from having ratings out there even if they aren’t the highest rated people in the land.
I’m just saying if indicators were something SBN did a trial on, why not think big.
Actually maybe they should try it on minor league team blogs, whatever works there they can implement at the elite level…
I Rink, therefore I spam
Agreed (and elaborated on below). It’s why sometimes when I’m short on time I will skim a post for the green comments to see if I missed something particularly important. Maybe instead of hiding all comments not posted by “starred commenters” (or whatever), SBN could just make them a different color? That way in a thread of 500-plus comments, you could scroll through just the ones by long-tenured/respects commenters. (Note: a key similar to “Z” for this would be the icing on the cake.)
Game-Over Green? Canada-Over Carlson!
by Scott in Shaw on Jan 28, 2010 2:57 PM EST up reply actions
I agree very much. Something identifying somebody as a “new poster” won’t help that person be taken very seriously either, as much as everyone will try and deny it.
My ability to post is only surpassed by my ability to pinch pennies.
I don’t deny it. I don’t see why anyone should. Your credibility is based on what you contribute, and after one comment you can’t really be evaluated. It’s after you’ve seen a bunch of comments from a person that you can start to evaluate whether them.
Now let's say you and I go toe to toe on bird law and see who comes out the victor.
Excellent suggestion. I’ve seen this work really well on the best of discussion forums on the web. I do share the same reservation that Ovechwin has with the peer rating indicator, though. Appreciate your observation on the ebb and flow of NHL Team-centric blogs and how its tied to the success of the product it’s blogging about.
"My left hand has pretty much turned into a claw anyway."
Grazi,
I went over to the Loose Cannon (okay, that’s not their name) for the Blue Jackets at the Jurcina/Clark trade and it was a desolate place. Throwing them a bone that it’ll eventually get better made me think about how it can’t always be great either.
I don’t know how much analysis fans of a bad team would want to read capturing just how crappy a team really is from 1000 angles
"I'm not adopted and I'm not an Indian. It's just a coincidence that I have a love of gambling and booze and a knack for catching syphilis." -Jerri Blank
It’s not just team quality. There are other dynamics at work, and I don’t know what they are. This site kills Pensburgh in terms of comment traffic, same with DET’s blog, and pretty much all others on SBN. The only two that immediately come to mind as being near our level are PPP and FTF. PPP covers a bad team, FTF covers a team that has had several years of post-season disappointment. There’s more going on than just team performance.
Now let's say you and I go toe to toe on bird law and see who comes out the victor.
We also had SBNs first pickup game. I can’t believe we beat Canada in that.
I look to the future because that's where I'm going to spend the rest of my life.
More readily available icetime here probably, heh.
My ability to post is only surpassed by my ability to pinch pennies.
Doubtful. Probably more rinks, more players, and cheaper ice in Canada. I’m with zephyr, I think it’s pretty cool that we beat PPP to it.
Now let's say you and I go toe to toe on bird law and see who comes out the victor.
Let's not get ahead of ourselves :)
We had PPPPub nights before you kids were figuring out recs :P Not to mention our actual field trip to the draft in MTL.
You guys benefit and exploit the fact that you guys have a heavy local presence among the top commenters. It’s a great aspect of the community here.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Doubtful. Probably more rinks, more players, and cheaper ice in Canada.
You’d be shocked. The new rink the Leafs built in Etobicoke was the first new one built in 20+ years. With all of the leagues at every possible level of hockey there is much less ice available and much more expensive than in DC.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
But it goes beyond that. I honestly haven’t looked at ice slot costs in Toronto so I don’t really know. But when I was in HS I saw a list of ice costs for my local rinks, some other American cities, and Canadian cities and the US ice prices were at least 5x as expensive per minute of ice. Obviously a lot of it has to do with how much ice demand there is, as you said, but a lot of it also has a lot to do with the energy costs to keep ice in good condition. Toronto is going to have much, much lower energy costs to run a rink as compared to both DC and Long Island (the two places where I’ve lived most of my life; oddly enough, ice was pretty cheap in Las Vegas but I wonder if that is because they were able to subsidize it with casino funds or what exactly was going on).
Now let's say you and I go toe to toe on bird law and see who comes out the victor.
In both places it was probably more expensive because it was in higher demand. Lower demand in Vegas would make it less expensive?
My ability to post is only surpassed by my ability to pinch pennies.
I don’t know. I skated at two rinks there and only heard about one other. Not a lot of rinks but there was definitely a good men’s league going. In NY and DC you have a lot more rinks; I can’t imagine the demand is that much higher, but maybe it is. What is a lot difference is the humidity. Once you get an indoor facility cool in Vegas it’s much easier to keep cool.
Now let's say you and I go toe to toe on bird law and see who comes out the victor.
There’s also a lot more high school, college, and youth programs to use up all of the ice around DC. I would guess there is a significantly smaller number in Vegas.
My ability to post is only surpassed by my ability to pinch pennies.
Oh I agree it’s not just about wins and losses.
But I am saying when a team sucks people aren’t going to SBN to read an insightful summary about why they lost again.
And I’ve seen some other sites mail in the recap just like the team mailed in the game.
Now let's say you and I go toe to toe on bird law and see who comes out the victor.
I guess it depends which site you are talking about. PPP and Pensburgh were in the original SBN wave so they definitely have track records. I just don’t know what the other sites’ histories are.
Now let's say you and I go toe to toe on bird law and see who comes out the victor.
Certainly wasn’t referring to PPP or Pensburgh. I was actually thinking about some of the non-hockey blogs that have just come about and just don’t have the readership or community, and it doesn’t feel like they did before they started on SBN. They make me wonder how the writers keep putting up content, I’d be dejected. In fact, I don’t check them as often because the discussion just isn’t there. It is here, however.
Depends on the writer
Before moving to SBN and even for a year afterwards I was basically writing out of my love of the Leafs and a need for a creative outlet.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Love
Always love. Now part of it is love of the community. I like sharing my ideas and having a bunch of friends to discuss them. Or reading what they think about the team.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
when a team sucks people aren’t going to SBN to read an insightful summary about why they lost again.
Luckily for me Leafs fans are wired to try to figure out why the team sucks :)
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Yes, with a big enough local market, and a winning tradition to reference – say, a Cup or two – a team’s fanbase is probably much more likely able to absorb a certain degree of suckitude: If the Yankees came in last in the league for 5 years they’d still get more media attention than most of the teams in MLB at the start of year 6.
But the Lightning and Canes clearly show us a Cup win and a successful couple of season isn’t enough.
And it’s not just about being in the south or north. Dallas still holds some decent respect despite a diminished latitude and performance in recent years.
When I’ve talked with the good people that run other SBN sites for less successful teams without long or successful records and light fan traffic, they are happy to point to traffic numbers they’ve had in past years when their teams have had flashes of success.
……………………………
Even if the Caps win a Cup, if they quickly fall back to mediocrity (Canes, Lightning), there will be that sucking sound in our fanbase numbers, locally and nationally, no matter how well the fall is chronicled. And the average, well-conditioned, longtime Caps fan should expect this to occur.
But with “our” market size, team talent, and avg player age, there’s reason to think the team can permanently climb to a higher rung of permanent respectability with this generation of players
by establishing a winning persona that extends beyond winning a Cup in a given year.
If I were a player on the team I couldn’t be less bothered about this, but this discussion is about the readers/fanbase and our (slightly one-sided) relation to our team.
The most interesting analysis I’ve seen on this blog was, FnBs fanpost , and even his thesis was bland and he made few mistakes.
I just wish you would have made those thoughts known in the comments section of the FanPost. The first one very clearly asked for feedback to see what I needed to improve. If you thought there were flaws or it was lacking, say something. That’s the only way I’m going to know to put anything more into it.
Now let's say you and I go toe to toe on bird law and see who comes out the victor.
Same goes for every other post criticized so far. The comment section exists for a reason.
"Dozens of people spontaneously combust each year. It's just not really widely reported."
by Laich It Or Lump It on Jan 28, 2010 2:43 PM EST up reply actions
I’m sorry. It’s not really fair to call out any post without first having commented on the post itself. I’ll try to drop in my quick thoughts sometime. I enjoyed it. There were just a couple spots I had contention with.
by Bushwood Bushwhacker on Jan 28, 2010 3:11 PM EST up reply actions
Careful with that, or your name will become a meme:
This post is crap. It’s not even analysis!
/Buchwhack’d
Ask seminrocks how she likes it… {grin}
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Jan 28, 2010 3:19 PM EST up reply actions
Even the Fehr piece a few days ago… thoughtful, (prodigious even), but not analysis and not original. That stuff was two clicks away on NHL.com, and I’m betting most of us knew the jist of the content already.
The more I thought about it, the more this needed to be responded to. In short, that stuff is not two clicks away on NHL.com, I’d take the bet that most people knew that Fehr ranks so highly in those metrics, and you ask for more BtN-style stuff below and that post is almost entirely BtN-based. Moreover, it was a quick stat dump – not every post is going to be War and Fucking Peace. So what am I missing?
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
I was really only trying to draw the line between analysis and thoughtful commentary. This was a great ditty on Fehr, and he had a more than solid game that night. I thought it was very cool. It’s just that people are mistaking that for analysis…
You’re not missing anything. I never meant to come off as attacking The Rink, just correcting people on the usage of the word analysis, and constructively criticizing The Rink for lacking in original analysis. Which is by NO means expected… I guess what I am looking for when I blog surf is something that I didn’t know already or don’t have direct access to. I am not criticizing any article itself… I really think what I am trying to say is missing will be clear when I make a post this weekend. Hopefully. Or I will get flamed. Either way. Should be fun.
by Bushwood Bushwhacker on Jan 28, 2010 3:08 PM EST up reply actions
Is this “analysis”? Is this? This?
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
Those are great, and I had only seen one, as they were 6+ months ago.
by Bushwood Bushwhacker on Jan 28, 2010 3:22 PM EST up reply actions
For what it’s worth (regrettably my allusion to the Schultz discussion didn’t flush this out) is that there’s a recommended reading or other list next to a post, assuming things have been tagged properly by the author. While it may be a chore to look at analysis from a year or 6 months ago, I’d suggest that those go a long way towards establishing what the Rink consensus might be on a player/concept, so that the vets don’t grumble over treading old ground and the n00bs can perhaps use that old data in their own future evaluations.
Apologies if I’m coming into this discussion after the fact or anything.
If you don't know how to write or what to think, or have a question about something on an elitist blog, read its community guidelines for assistance.
by Bald Pollack on Jan 28, 2010 3:27 PM EST up reply actions
kicking myself for not remembering the rangers breakdowns breakdowns. i was a little overly active in the defensive pairings post’s comments, but i still think shaMo has value playing alongside green.
by Natty Bumppo on Jan 28, 2010 5:10 PM EST up reply actions
As a grad student, who barely has time to eat/sleep, I appreciate people who take the time out of their days to find stats and articles and highlights. While they might be “two clicks away” on NHL.com, I don’t have the time to sift through links to find the gems people post here. In this case, I had an idea that Fehr was kicking ass, but didn’t know where or how to actually demonstrate this in numbers. By taking the time to 1) find those stats; and 2) compile them, summarize them, and post them, JP allowed me to read in a few paragraphs something that I never would have seen otherwise. And for that, I am grateful.
How do you say "Third Wheel" in Russian?
by SeattleCapsFan on Jan 28, 2010 4:57 PM EST up reply actions
I know we’re having a moratorium on ‘this’. But so ‘this’! The CapsClips has been a godsend for me, and would be reason alone for me to check this site daily. The original content just makes it that much better. To be honest I don’t bother to do much Caps online searching that JP doesn’t link to, because I feel like anything worth reading will have made Clips.
It’s the same for articles like the Fehr piece. Sure the information was out there if you wanted to search for it, and had the know how to break down the stats once you got them. But when the Rink provides the information with better analysis than any website/journalist out there, it makes you appreciative of the fact that you didn’t do the “two clicks” without first reading the take posted here.
by BradleyFightingVehicle on Jan 28, 2010 6:35 PM EST up reply actions
Be The Change That You Want To See
First I’ll start by completely discounting your desire for ‘more’ analysis because frankly there is no team blog that does it better than Japers’.
What it sounds like you want based on your description is more rumours and speculation. But if you don’t like the analysis done then the beauty of the SBN platform is that you can write what you want to see. Lead the way.
maybe try having a general thread everyday for goofing around?
This is a good suggestion. We have the Chatty Cathy Fanshots every day for off-topic discussion. There is a new one every 500 comments and they get hidden at the end of the day. That lets us keep the morning links post hockey only and the rest of them on topic.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
solid thoughts
im a relatively long time reader. and i think this is my first time posting a comment, its a great blog, it gives me the insider info i crave on a team i love. we are lucky to have what i am absolutely certain is the most exciting team in the NHL and that I have ever seen. keep up the russian transcribed interviews, i feel they provide great candid responses from our young russian players. They are my favorite. Also a fella that works on the equipment staff came into my work during the playoffs last year, he was young and we got to talking about a ton of sweet stuff, like how mike green is so particular about his stick and greenie tried to get back the stick he sent to the hall of fame last year after he broke his last one in the playoffs. They are in the locker room during the periods and hang out with the players all the time. It would be money to get one of those guys to post a weekly blog about stuff like that. Thats the kind of stuff I love to come to Japers’ Rink for.
by stlballa on Jan 28, 2010 1:39 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
Really quickly
I know I am getting some pushback on my comments, but when I started reading this thread I knew exactly what I would find: everyone saying they love The Rink. It’s a truly awesome blog, and I don’t blame them. I am only trying to point out the major deficiency, as I see it.
#NeedsMoreOriginalAnalysis
I can’t help it if I always liked math and science classes more than english. And I kind of feel like The Rink is more english class and not enough math and science.
Just my two cents.
by Bushwood Bushwhacker on Jan 28, 2010 11:20 AM EST reply actions
Thanks for another comment clarifying that you want more and better original content – it wasn’t clear from any of your comments above. And if there’s a site you’d like to see us modeled after, feel free to let us know.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
I sadly can’t tell whether that was sarcastic or not. I wrote my origial post late last night, and I wanted to make sure that people know that I was just pointing out something that could be improved upon, nothing more. If it sounded agressive it was only because people were gushing instead of being contructive which was, I think, the goal of this thread in the first place. To get feedback and to improve.
There isn’t a site I think The Rink should model itself after necessairly, but there are elements of other blogs Puck Prospectus, Behind the Net) that it could incorporate to become a more comprehensive and complete hockey blog experience. I’m not saying have math problems for posts, but incorporating advanced statistics and making inferences from there is really what I’d love to see…
by Bushwood Bushwhacker on Jan 28, 2010 11:56 AM EST up reply actions
Was I gushing?
The intent of my initial comment wasn’t to come across as this particular primate
It was more of an off the cuff apologia and reflection on my participation as a current reader/member in light of the round table discussion JP posted up. It was also somewhat of a small pledge to fellow Rink Rats and Rabbits in this community to further what we have here at Japers’ Rink and to carry that over to other partnering SBN hockey-centric blog communities when and should I engage with them. I especially stress this with the communities whose allegiances are to a team that are rivals with ours.
Fehr and Balanced hit the nail on the head with and just about sums up what I’m after as a member of this community:
I want the Rink to be the example of a sports blog. When people click your profile and see “Japers’ Rink,” I want them to think “ok, this person knows their stuff, and isn’t going to waste my time or troll my site.”
"My left hand has pretty much turned into a claw anyway."
by Christoph J on Jan 28, 2010 12:24 PM EST up reply actions
I think we do incorporate plenty of Puck Prospectus- and BtN-style analysis here (as you said, you’re not a long-time reader), but the reality is that we can’t be everything to everyone. Check out how often those sites post new content and/or how many contributors they have. We’re constrained by the pesky number of hours in a day, work, family and other factors and so what we try to do is provide a balance and, most importantly, give the people what they want. Our site traffic indicates that we’re doing a pretty good job of it, too.
So if you want to convince Gabe Desjardins or Andrew Rothstein to give up their gigs to write at Japers’ Rink full-time, we’d welcome them with open arms (and do cartwheels down the streets). But until then, what you see is pretty much what you get.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
Fair enough. I’m just voicing my opinion of what the direction of the blog could be, and I don’t have much (if any) support. I realize this. Maybe more in depth analysis needs to come from the community, not the staff. It just seems to me that in the spectrum of posts produced by the staff, the analysis type posts are the least represented.
by Bushwood Bushwhacker on Jan 28, 2010 1:14 PM EST up reply actions
To the contrary, I’m sure everyone would support more and better content.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
It sounds like you’re saying the Rink is OFB, and I respectfully disagree.
My ability to post is only surpassed by my ability to pinch pennies.
I was thinking the same. OFB is more like English class and Japers Rink is math, science, with a little impromptu debate class
"My left hand has pretty much turned into a claw anyway."
by Christoph J on Jan 28, 2010 11:45 AM EST up reply actions
I’d argue that Pepper is as good (if not better) with the language as anyone who writes about this team.
And don’t forget our foreign language classes.
We have a pretty comprehensive curriculum here, IMO.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
by J.P. on Jan 28, 2010 11:49 AM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Agreed
And when the Rink writers write flowery, it is more about accentuating the story than trying to make “moments” where they don’t exist, in my opinion.
Not much Bob Costasing around here, which I prefer.
My ability to post is only surpassed by my ability to pinch pennies.
And don’t forget our foreign language classes.
We have a pretty comprehensive curriculum here, IMO.
Oh but of course … forgot about those missing extra ingredients. Didn’t mean to take them for granted!
Let me just say, if Japers’ Rink were compared to my favorite vino rojo it is a very complex, full bodied glass of Malbec with subtle and not so subtle hints of flavor, aged to perfection in an Oak barrel to be savored and enjoyed any day with some fine asado.
"My left hand has pretty much turned into a claw anyway."
by Christoph J on Jan 28, 2010 11:57 AM EST up reply actions
And don’t forget our foreign language classes.
I consider this to be a huge asset for the Rink. Not to mention, it’s one of my personal favorite attributes. I personally cannot speak a lick of Russian, let alone translate it. The interviews here don’t just convey what was said at face value, but convey the meaning of what was said. Russian idioms to English idioms. That takes a great deal of knowledge about both the English and Russian languages and cultures. In short, Tuvan is a talented dude.
"Dozens of people spontaneously combust each year. It's just not really widely reported."
by Laich It Or Lump It on Jan 28, 2010 12:06 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
My English Lecture
I think you are confusing “analysis” to mean “math” and are writing off the “English” as not analysis. Qualitative analysis can still be very insightful. I too have only been around since the summer, and in that time there have been posts that discuss Semin’s value to the team, arguing both sides of Jurcina’s arbitration, whether or not the team needs an enforcer, Kovalchuk’s situation and its implications for the CBA, a round table discussing the team’s progress at the midpoint, the goaltending situation, the team scoring balance, breaking down the defense, a look at Varlamov’s early season struggles, the Caps’ growth as a team, and Finley’s future, and these posts have been able to provide interesting and original analysis without delving deeply into stats.
Even the updates on prospects provide a better look at the organization than you’ll get from any other single place given the difficulties of culling information and watching games from many of the minor leagues. While the blurb written about each prospect isn’t that in depth it still gives a look at how they are developing and their chances on making the NHL (you’re lucky if you can get ATOI, much less Corsi numbers). The discussion in the comments also brings out some opinions from people who are able to see these kids on a regular basis. Obviously we have Tuvan covering the KHL on the staff, but there are also people in Canada, Hershey, and Sweden that can help out as Rink scouts.
You’ve said you would like more number crunching, but I still think you get far more here than almost any other internet hockey source and you get it from people who are doing it for free. So I don’t think it is fair to say that the Rink provides analysis that you can get two clicks away on NHL.com.
My response has already highlighted much of why I come to the Rink to quench my thirst for anything Caps related. As for the rest of the reason why I come to the Rink, I’ll just say that I came here for the information, stayed for the analysis, and love it for the aberrant civility and the awesome community.
Of all our iniquities ignorance may be the worst
by Killer_Carlson on Jan 29, 2010 12:40 AM EST up reply actions 9 recs
As for the rest of the reason why I come to the Rink, I’ll just say that I came here because F&B hounded me for 3 months, then stayed for the information and analysis, and love it for the aberrant civility and the awesome community.
Now let's say you and I go toe to toe on bird law and see who comes out the victor.
there should be some sort of prize for recruiting active, intelligent commenters. like ING bank giving out 20 bucks every time a new customer references an existing member (not sure whether they still do that).
by Natty Bumppo on Jan 30, 2010 12:24 AM EST up reply actions
Rec'ommended Reading to all visitors of ANY website
For the most part we abide by rules of behavior that govern normal human interactions
This is the key that kept me here at the Rink from the very first time I visited (I too was lured here by a Jeff CincoCinco post — one about why her doesn’t actually suck), and helps make the conversation the most lively and reasonable of any website I’ve ever been on.
My recommendation would be to embark on a path towards pairing down the comments. I agree with the “regulars” in how they suggest that each of us has an obligation to do so individually in the way we post, but I also feel like at some point a thread is just too big to consume. It becomes overwhelming. (color me an old codger in that I liked it a few months — year? — back when you could easily read all 150 comments on something — 4 of which were your own contributions. Do I realize that may just be completely unrealistic, I do, but I’d rather try something, even if perceived as drastic, to keep this community tight and thoughtful).
Thus, I wouldn’t mind there being a way to thin down the comments, I don’t have any good suggestions off the top of my head, but I wouldn’t be opposed to considering (in a public forum) everything from limiting the community size, to rotating when a user is allowed to post, to linking posting comments to contribution in other ways, etc. I’d like to consider a lot of different option to making the firehose we are all drinking from more manageable, but to do it publicly, and as a community.
Thank you all of Japers for all your hard work and for the great work and contributions of the community.
PuckDaddy be damned, I'm putting CincoCinco on the back of a Schultz jersey!
by Chris meet Alex on Jan 28, 2010 11:38 AM EST reply actions
Everything in moderation, including moderation (and moderators)
After reading the heartfelt responses from everyone here (especially Furry and reeselynn) I just want to clarify that we’re definitely not saying that every comment has to be a masterpiece. You don’t get to 5000+ comments like I have without a whole lot of chaff. Hell, JP himself posted one comment yesterday that I swear was just an excuse to use the word “manscaping.”
If you’re the kind of person who read the whole post up above, then the odds are very good that you’re not part of “the problem.” Boutros’s comment particularly brought me up short — Boutros, you pretty much always bring the funny and you’re a key Hockey-OT-thread-hawk (which keeps the rest of the comment threads clear). Those are plenty valuable contributions.
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Jan 28, 2010 12:55 PM EST reply actions
Best site anywhere
I know I’m mostly reiterating. I’ve been reading this site for a couple years (and been a caps fan since i was a kid). I know so much more about the caps because of this site. I would never have understood a word from Semin or Varlamov, and I certainly would have taken a much longer time to realize how wonderful Jeff Schultz is! I rave about this site to pretty much everyone in my life. I check the site constantly and am always excited about a new post. So thank you to everyone, the community in general (for being polite, intelligent, and incredibly analytical) but even more so to the guys running the show and writing the articles. You’re the best.
One day I will come up with the greatest signature...it'll be awesome...
Your Nation’s Capital would like a word with you.
"My left hand has pretty much turned into a claw anyway."
my apologies to your nation’s capital, problem solved.
One day I will come up with the greatest signature...it'll be awesome...
by Flash-fried on Feb 26, 2010 10:23 AM EST up reply actions
As Col. Henry Blake said to Hotlips in MASH (the movie, not the awful TV show), “Goddammit…there’s a time and a place for everything”, and it pretty much goes the same for here. I think it wavers from time to time on the line of “too serious” in reaction to things, but for the most part, its been cool around here when we get a little silly, and for that I am appreciative.
To be honest, its just nice to have other people to discuss hockey with.
Driver and head Muckety-Muck of The Pavel Kubina Bandwagon
I like your nurse's uniform, guy.
These are O.R. scrubs.
O.R. they?
Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Jan 28, 2010 2:01 PM EST reply actions
To be honest, its just nice to have other people to discuss hockey with.
That’s the greatest thing about this blog, I think—finding intelligent, more-or-less objective fans to discuss hockey with. I’ve learned so much by reading both the FanPosts and the comments. And as long as people are committed to reading the posts and comments and ask questions, I don’t think there’ll be a problem with uneducated fans for too long, as at some point the numbers should flatten out.
Ovechkin = Green Backs
by red army line on Jan 28, 2010 2:24 PM EST up reply actions
I might add that Japers’ has been a saving grace for me since moving to Seattle, since no one out here could give a rat’s ass about hockey, let alone a DC team. Which is probably why I didn’t discover the Rink until a few months after moving out here…I was looking for people to chat with!
How do you say "Third Wheel" in Russian?
by SeattleCapsFan on Jan 28, 2010 5:05 PM EST up reply actions
Is this the point where I say F the Sounders?
If you don't know how to write or what to think, or have a question about something on an elitist blog, read its community guidelines for assistance.
by Bald Pollack on Jan 28, 2010 5:16 PM EST up reply actions
Aw don’t hate BP, I’m a United fan to the core. But the Sounders have gotten a pretty awesome start in this city, the games here are awesome entertainment (at least the two that I went to last spring). So I gotta say they hold a (small) place in my heart.
How do you say "Third Wheel" in Russian?
by SeattleCapsFan on Jan 28, 2010 5:19 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, as a fellow DCU fan, I’ve gotta say that the Sounders are still pretty impressive. They had to LIMIT their season tickets to 32,000.
Also, SCF – there are hockey fans in Seattle, you just have to know where to look. If you play, I suggest trying out Greater Seattle Hockey League.
This is not a game of who the f*ck are you...
Thanks for the suggestion, DB, but I’m a soccer player, hockey fan. I can sometimes get my sports enthusiast friends to talk hockey, but most of them are from the midwest and really only like to talk about Favre.
I’m ok with getting my hockey fix from you guys.
How do you say "Third Wheel" in Russian?
by SeattleCapsFan on Jan 28, 2010 5:48 PM EST up reply actions
Cool. I’d hook you up with some of my hockey buddies out there (a couple of which played soccer as well), but they’ve both since moved. :(
If you haven’t yet, I’d suggest heading up to Everett for a Silvertips game, or down to Renton (or wherever the new T-Birds arena is) to watch the T-Birds. Particularly try to go to a T-Birds-Portland Winterhawks game. . . those are always a good tilt.
This is not a game of who the f*ck are you...
Yea, I got free T-Bird tickets last year with my Center Ice package, it was a great time. Thanks for reminding me though, I’ll check out the schedule. Only problem is it’s in Kent, which is a pain in the ass to get to.
How do you say "Third Wheel" in Russian?
by SeattleCapsFan on Jan 28, 2010 5:57 PM EST up reply actions
Haha, I saw them play the Winterhawks… I don’t think I’ve ever been to a place where it’s so socially acceptable to shout obscenities while your eight year old sits next to you.
by sixsevenfiftysix on Jan 28, 2010 6:00 PM EST up reply actions
JP, have you guys considered promoting user generated content to the main page? I know some of the good stuff gets rec’d into the “Recommended FanPost/Shot” sections and sticks around for a while for commentary, but on days when you guys are busy or just don’t have anything to say, it would be a good way to keep interesting material up front for comment as well as a way to reward and encourage the writers of said good material.
Of the SBNation blogs i frequent, I think (again, I think) Podium Cafe does this and they always seem to have good new content.
Yeah, that’s a dicey one. On the one hand, I love the user-generated content. But on the other, I think it’s important to keep distinct the writers’ and the other community members’ content for a number of reasons (not the least of which is that I really wouldn’t want anyone to be hurt or think they’re content wasn’t “good enough” just because it didn’t get promoted). I don’t think there’s a problem with good FanPosts being recognized and enjoyed, but maybe we’ll have to rethink that.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
Maybe have the rec’d FanPosts and FanShots put in the main content column so people who aren’t totally familiar or are too lazy to sort through the FanPost’s column can have non-writer information easily presented to them?
Just a thought.
I don't know shit about baseball.
One thing I try to do is to link to the better FanPosts/Shots in the Clips post as a way to get more eyes on them.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
I wrote a fanshot that never got linked a couple or three weeks ago. Does that mean you didn’t like it?
[crushed]
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Jan 28, 2010 3:02 PM EST up reply actions
Dammit PPP, I had just gotten over it.
[re-crushed]
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Jan 30, 2010 2:38 PM EST up reply actions
I don’t think there’s a problem with good FanPosts being recognized and enjoyed, but maybe we’ll have to rethink that.
For the record, I think you’re doing it correctly right now. Fanposts and fanshots that deserve attention usually are linked in the morning clips posts. There already are sufficient outlets for user-generated content. And there’s value in the separation — I know what to expect when I see something in the main column, and you don’t have to worry about being responsible for even more writers’ stuff.
"Camaraderie, that's what the Washington Capitals are all about."
by CapitalCentre on Jan 28, 2010 10:07 PM EST up reply actions
Starred Commenters?
First off, thanks for the shout-out to my wine post. I totally did it just for fun and certainly did not expect such an amazingly positive and interactive response. I am very proud and humbled that it comes up as one of the “most popular.”
Here’s a thought about how to cut down on meaningless comments and discussions (alluded to above). Deadspin got unwieldy very fast a year or so ago and had to totally revamp their comment threads. They banned a bunch of people, set up a mysterious band of “comment ninjas” to approve commenters, watch for bannable content, etc. They also developed a star system by which those commenters who were the funniest, longest-tenured, most-respected (who knows what the criteria is) would get a star. When you visit a post now, you only see the conversation among starred commenters unless you take an additional step.
While I certainly acknowledge that Deadspin’s process has flaws (transparency (lack of) being one of the biggest), it might be worth looking at doing something similar. I certainly think it could make for a much more enjoyable Rink experience if I knew when I clicked on a comment thread I was only going to see comments from trusted members (and hopefully the ensuing conversation would be relatedly more robust). Everyone could still comment, but you’d have to “click for all comments” or something. As newcomers become recognized as being particularly insightful, witty, etc. they would be added to the featured comment threads by whoever is in charge of deciding that.
This could be a disaster, but I’m just throwing it out there.
Game-Over Green? Canada-Over Carlson!
That’s pretty interesting. What’s this “additional step” of which you speak?
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
If you click on any post at Deadspin (for example, this one), you’ll see that it says there are currently 72 comments. But if you look below, you’ll only see a couple dozen of them, because you’re only seeing the “starred” commenters. If you want to see all 72, you have to click “show all discussions” at the very bottom. I’m not sure if you would see your own comment on the main page if you aren’t a starred commenter (I haven’t commented there in a while, and I don’t think I have a star).
Game-Over Green? Canada-Over Carlson!
by Scott in Shaw on Jan 28, 2010 3:02 PM EST up reply actions
Defaulting to hiding people. It’s an idea to consider like any, but if in any way this is related to the similar discussion above then it proves the concern: this topic would not even have been broached here if not for the comment of a new person. And regardless, that possibility would be my big concern on that idea.
I’m certainly for an indicator or two next to names, I personally don’t know about that being a settings/auto-filter trigger we’d want to have available.
but I’m all for trying things. Once…
I Rink, therefore I spam
If you keep a stat that is visible on every post about post count/status/whatever, you will get less elite, perhaps new, members of the blog posting shit all the time just to bump up their status. Happens all over the internet.
My ability to post is only surpassed by my ability to pinch pennies.
That’s my biggest concern, add a visible number to anything and it seems to become a contest (for those of you around long enough, witness the Karma fiasco at /.). I’m starting to think that the best way is to just continue to exert outward pressure for quality from the existing user base. In other words, the team toughness method mentioned previously.
Agreed that’s a concern. Isn’t there something on the official Caps message board like you have to have 50 comments before you can start a thread or something? I’ve seen whole threads of people just posting one word after another to bump their count. Which is why there needs to be something other than post-count involved (I don’t know what that is…unfortunately or not, it would have to be a subjective determination).
Game-Over Green? Canada-Over Carlson!
by Scott in Shaw on Jan 28, 2010 3:19 PM EST up reply actions
People may hate this, but maybe reading through x number of comments, keeping a count of z’s, just to check that people are reading and stuff. There are still ways around that, but it might have some sort of “read, think, post” effect
Ovechkin = Green Backs
by red army line on Jan 28, 2010 3:54 PM EST up reply actions
If you really want to make people slow down, you can make it so that the posts won’t go up until two minutes after the user clicks “submit.” It gives them two minutes to stare at their message (and cancel it) before it goes live.
I hate this idea, but it could solve the problem that you’re trying to solve.
My ability to post is only surpassed by my ability to pinch pennies.
Unless you absolutely nail the scoring system and have incredibly vigilant judges, this creates a perverse incentive. I’m categorically opposed to any type of scoring system beyond what we already have.
Only YOU can prevent idiots from commenting!
by Knee high to a duck on Jan 28, 2010 10:57 PM EST up reply actions
Again, alienating members, something I think no blog should do.
Tom Brady is Sidney Crosby, except Tom Brady has felt the touch of a woman, and has his own house.
I concede that’s a risk. Personally, I haven’t been alienated by Deadspin (although I don’t click through very often because I read it through RSS). I actually like that when I do click on a post I don’t have to wade through all the chaff to get to the most funny/relevant comments. That said, there are two main problems: (1) Deadspin comments are a race to see who can make the wittiest/punniest/dirtiest pop culture reference, not insightful analysis or discussion; and (2) it did actually piss off a bunch of good people, mainly because of the way they handled it (my guess is that they picked “comment ninjas” who had a beef with some other commenters and banned them out of spite).
It would be interesting to see if it would work on a blog like this, but yeah, you’d have to be real careful with how you picked who got a star.
Game-Over Green? Canada-Over Carlson!
by Scott in Shaw on Jan 28, 2010 3:05 PM EST up reply actions
I’m with Ovechwin on this one. I used to read (never commented) Deadspin almost daily and I know what you are referring to. I am not a fan at all of the solution they came up with. They decided to use a nuclear bomb instead of a surgical strike.
"You ever use smelling salts, every time you type a bad blog?" Brook Laich
I read lifehacker, where they have starred comments as well. There is a lot of good stuff that gets ignored because the mods or whatever don’t promote it. Then I see the same three or four people getting promoted while adding nothing of significantly more substance than anyone else. I dislike it.
My ability to post is only surpassed by my ability to pinch pennies.
All of the gawker blogs do the stared commenting system. It works well for a blog that puts out 15-20 new posts a day but for a site like this it would be unfair.
Maybe I’ll write a firefox extension where you can put in a list of your favorite users and a list of people you want to ignore so everyone can tailor the comments section to themselves.
I look to the future because that's where I'm going to spend the rest of my life.
by zephyr on Jan 28, 2010 3:14 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I’d be in awe if you were able to do that.
Now let's say you and I go toe to toe on bird law and see who comes out the victor.
Just to throw out more ideas -
1. There could be a 7 day wait period from when you register to when you are able to first comment. That could cut down on trolls and allow others a week to better understand Rink norms.
2. I know this is controversial, but you could charge a nominal amt for the right to comment – perhaps $5/yr? That would certainly filter out people and I’m sure many here would agree the work the writers do is worthy of compensation.
I wouldn’t make any changes to posting capabilities without a serious community discussion however.
That stuff is all up to J.P. I think a one day ban is enough, especially with the way we move through posts. If you are just fired up and want to troll you can’t do it right away, and by the time you can we’ve moved on to the next day’s content.
Now let's say you and I go toe to toe on bird law and see who comes out the victor.
1 day would seem to be enough in my mind as well.
I do think even with SBN’s welcome guide and the community guidelines, other info for new members would be helpful. Obviously, experience helps more than anything, but I’m thinking some basics on buttons (Z key) combined with some helpful hints might help matters. Then again I could be way off base.
"You ever use smelling salts, every time you type a bad blog?" Brook Laich
I’ve never written an extension but it doesn’t seem too hard. I’ll look into it some more.
I look to the future because that's where I'm going to spend the rest of my life.
Interesting, I was thinking about a bookmarklet, but an extension would be a more robust (unfortunately limiting to one browser) tool.
PuckDaddy be damned, I'm putting CincoCinco on the back of a Schultz jersey!
by Chris meet Alex on Jan 29, 2010 4:20 PM EST up reply actions
One reason I don’t like the idea of having only the recced comments appear first is because often the rec’d comment is a reply to someone, and what’s the point of only seeing the reply?
Familiar Rapports: Bald Pollack, F&B, Gould Old Days.
Lobbies: Osala, Perreault, Erskine, Pothier, Neuvirth, Flash.
Fan of: Mean Lars Backstrom, Line Mashing, Cake.
As a longtime Caps fan who doesn’t live in the area anymore this place takes on a different context for me. In the last decade, while the web and Center Ice package have made it much easier for me to follow the team, but a place like this gives me the feeling of truly being in a hockey community of like Caps-minded folks.
Below, I use comments from the post as a jumping off point for my thoughts on some of the ‘growing pains’ issues.
Our hosts can’t watch everything — we need to police ourselves. It’s about team toughness, instead of any individual.
I hope we don’t get to a point where we need mods and/or a bunch of rules. That means we aren’t taking care of the place ourselves and are just calling the cops (J.P.) every time we have a problem with a neighbor. We should all look to help out newbies and deal with offenders of the community guidelines. G.O.D. and BP already do a great job of this and I’ve begun to notice others starting to follow their lead.
In all seriousness, we joke about being elitist, but this really is an elite commentariat. We just need to remember that and perform accordingly.
I am an offender of the highest order. I need to think more and type less. I also need to edit better what I do type. I would like to see the Clips threads go back to being a bit more hockey centered. Self restraint on my part should help that happen.
"You ever use smelling salts, every time you type a bad blog?" Brook Laich
Once again, CP, you took the words right out of my mouth (this is becoming a rather disturbing trend). And with that in mind while I applaud your resolution to be more self-policing, most of the comments of yours that I read I find thoughtful and/or amusing. So don’t be too hard on yourself.
How do you say "Third Wheel" in Russian?
by SeattleCapsFan on Jan 28, 2010 5:12 PM EST up reply actions
Looking in mirror, tail between legs
I am a relative new comer to SBN / Japers’ Rink. I am certainly guilty of not lurking long enough to determine appropriate and desired community behaviors promulgated in this very fine post and subsequent commentary. I am guilty of occasional offenses. I ask for community forgiveness and I pledge to reform. Reform for me will pretty much mean a disappearing act vis a vis commenting. Having followed the Caps only since BB took over the coaching reigns, and really sinking more into all things hockey just this current season, there is just too much I don’t know in comparison to the Rink’s lead writers and model commentors to add much of anything of value. I have learned a lot since joining the Rink. I will continue to read and follow the Rink religiously to further my understanding of the game and deepening of my love for the Caps. Hopefully over time, I will become more hockey-smart, enough to contribute to this great community in a hockey-intelligent way.
Thanks for all the great stuff you do here at the Rink.
Consider this a teaching moment
Having followed the Caps only since BB took over the coaching reigns, and really sinking more into all things hockey just this current season, there is just too much I don’t know in comparison to the Rink’s lead writers and model commentors to add much of anything of value.
It doesn’t matter that you don’t necessarily know as much as some of the other people here; you still add to the site. You bring your perspective to what is happening, and how games are playing out, and that helps people like me who sometimes get bogged down in minutiae. You bring the high def video capture, as well. The point is that we have a community of people with different skills, points of view, and levels of understanding of hockey. That all contributes to what makes this place great, IMO. I literally would never have done the breakdowns without your help.
Now let's say you and I go toe to toe on bird law and see who comes out the victor.
by Rob Parker on Jan 28, 2010 3:53 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
and consider this a small request ...
Renstar, for more collaboration between you and Fehr and Balanced. I recollect you providing him the high def video capture for his video analysis FanPost, correct? I really appreciated these visual breakdowns and would love to see more of that.
Stats and numbers are great, don’t get me wrong … but visuals are always great to see, to borrow a term from OV himself, the hockey moments.
"My left hand has pretty much turned into a claw anyway."
and now i’m a trendsetter with the non-picture, “correction” subject dot!
by Natty Bumppo on Jan 28, 2010 5:06 PM EST up reply actions
*
And the lack of collaboration is my fault. I have half of what I need for the next one, I just need to get another video but haven’t coordinated it with him yet.
Now let's say you and I go toe to toe on bird law and see who comes out the victor.
The Even Ovechkin Can Use A Cavalry Breakdown was a solo F&B effort. I helped a bit on his Playing With Fire On The PK Breakdown, providing the video captures. Loved both Breakdowns, very educational. I’m looking forward to future F&B Breakdowns and will certainly assist him in any way I can.
Ren, please don’t stop commenting! I hope that my comment about observing and “think, then post” did not spur the idea to refrain from jumping in. If it did, I do apologize, as it was not meant for that at all. I brought those up more as specifics for the idea of “interact as you would in everyday life” and self-moderate to keep things in the appropriate threads. I’ll admit I was not nearly as articulate as many of the responses here (for that I blame too much time with NY civil practice flashcards), so I do apologize for any mistake on my part.
In addition to your contributions to F&B’s FanPost, I’ve enjoyed reading your thoughts. IIRC, you highlighted certain CSN blunders and later provided video. As one of the out-of-town Caps fans with a Center Ice feed that immediately cuts off after the game, I’ve loved having these links. To me, they are like when YNC includes the Hard Hat for each game. They might be small details, but they do provide additional information that I think people appreciate.
I also would not consider myself to have anything close to the hockey knowledge on display by the readers and posters here, but I think the willingness to jump in and learn counts for a great deal. As F&B notes, each person’s perspective can help the overall discussion. And now I’ve gone on for far too long, but I just wanted to apologize in case my comment seemed like it was belittling the contributions of those who did not “lurk” for long periods of time.
Too late, Zephyr already put you on the default “bad” list in the Firefox script, none of us will ever see any of your posts ever again
;)
by Icebat on Jan 28, 2010 3:56 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Reform for me will pretty much mean a disappearing act vis a vis commenting.
This was my biggest fear when we wrote this. Ren, it would be a damned shame if the less you you drew from all this is that you should just disappear. Far from it. I can honestly say that I can’t remember ever reading a comment from you and wishing that you’d held back.
We want this to be a welcoming place, and I hope that you and folks like you continue to feel welcomed.
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Jan 28, 2010 6:14 PM EST up reply actions
Gouldie is spot on, and I agree with him in your specific case as well, Ren.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
Can I get an amen?
I felt like this belonged under Gouldie’s post, but I’m quoting Ren here.
Having followed the Caps only since BB took over the coaching reigns, and really sinking more into all things hockey just this current season, there is just too much I don’t know in comparison to the Rink’s lead writers and model commentors to add much of anything of value.
Even if you did nothing else at all, asking questions about whatever topic is current serves as a starting point for discussion. That’s a positive thing and worth commenting on in and of itself — I guarantee you that by asking a question about something, or positing an opinion, you’ll help us all get a better hockey education.
But that’s not the only thing you do. I remember nodding my head in agreement and thinking mmhmm when you’ve posted your thoughts. You video capture, you provide answers to some technical questions about how we can set up our own capture for computer.
I have learned a lot since joining the Rink.
You and me both, brother. That’s what it’s all about, right? I’m far from the most hockey-saavy commentor we have here, so I’m learning something new just about every thread I read. I’m not going to stop trying to clarify and expand my own understanding via my comments and you shouldn’t either – you’re a valuable and productive member of The Rink, please stick around and stick around vocally.
Only YOU can prevent idiots from commenting!
by Knee high to a duck on Jan 28, 2010 11:38 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
The Perfect Bar
We’ve all been to one. . . Great atmosphere, lots of people, but not too crowded, good beer, good music, attractive members of the opposite sex (or the same, if that’s your thing). It’s all about balance: too few people and it’s a wasteland; too many and it’s unpleasantly crowded.
Lately I’ve been getting the feeling that the Rink is like one of my favorite bars that suddenly gets too popular. The beer is still good, and I still dig the music, but I have a hard time getting my drink order taken and I can barely hear my conversation with the other regulars over the din of all the people shouting. Pretty soon, I’m wondering why I didn’t just drink at home.
I feel as though entire comment threads have been derailed about things that are totally non-hockey-related, and as a result, I find myself just “Z-ing” through comments until I see someone I’m familiar with (which is why avatars are great) or a heavily recommended comment. It’s gotten to the point where, when pressed for time, I occasionally just skip the comment thread altogether. Moreover, I’m becoming reluctant to comment in these threads because the likelihood of intelligent discourse decreases along with the signal-to-noise ratio.
The issue, as I see it, is largely one of judgment. Commenters need to think before they post. Is this comment relevant to the post/thread? Am I saying something new, or am I just blathering? Is this a Caps Clips or Gameday thread where the rules are more loosey-goosey, or is this an analytical piece wherein threadjacking is inappropriate? Have I articulated my thoughts in an intelligent fashion? Have a made a claim that can be proven/disproven with the application of 5 seconds’ time and the use of Google or NHL.com? Have I used even rudimentary grammar and spelling?
The answer to the above questions is, all too often, no. The result has been a decline in the quality of comment threads, and my response has been a partial withdrawal from commenting (although this is in part due to other factors). When I do engage in threads, I’m looking for particular Rink Rats to engage with and, to be honest, I studiously avoid discussions with others.
In other words, I’m not looking for a new drinking establishment, but I feel myself huddling up at the bar with some of the regulars, casting disdainful looks at the rowdy newcomers standing behind us.
This is not a game of who the f*ck are you...
by D'ohboy on Jan 28, 2010 5:24 PM EST reply actions 14 recs
blathering: perfect word choice for what i was trying to describe. also love the bar analogy, and it reminds me of PPP’s vision of the ideal sports blog.
by Natty Bumppo on Jan 28, 2010 5:44 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
Damn. That should be required reading.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
Yeah, that is pretty amazing. Great minds think alike I guess. :)
I wish I looked like that when I wield a hammer.
This is not a game of who the f*ck are you...
Definitely a must read and very relevant. Awesome stuff from PPP and here’s hoping a similar situation doesn’t happen here lest JP has to bring out that fearsome Ban Gavel of his.
I wish I looked like that when I wield a hammer.
Don’t we all?
"My left hand has pretty much turned into a claw anyway."
The Bar and the Bay Table
I read this thread last night and thought about it a lot today, and I came to the “kinda like a bar” analogy too, but from a slightly different angle:
From what I have read, on the site generally and this thread in particular, we have two basic (and different) purposes that the Rink addresses. I specifically don’t mean ’constituencies’because I think most of us drift from one to the other day-to-day. One purpose I think does fit the “neighborhood bar” analogy. Friendly people, “organic” chat, and knowledge that when you come in, there will be at least one thing in common from the get go. This place may have a greater level of joking and such than some have expressed comfort with, but it is not intimidating, it is welcoming to a ‘new’ person. I have seen this place on the Rink, and I have seen it manifest in reality at the Japer’s Rink Rats game, and at two viewing parties. I met Becca at a viewing party, and her second comment to me was “get in and get on commenting”. A true and open invitation to conversation. I have seen the same welcoming attitude amongst many of the people here, and have embraced it myself. Frankly, I think introducing yourself to this group in person is about as easy as I’ve seen with any group. You are a pretty open and friendly bunch.
The other place or purpose I think of as “The Bay Table”. In every firehouse I have ever run, there is a Bay Table. Most often, it is literally a table with benches or chairs that is located in the fire bay where the apparatus is. At night, this is where the ‘salty’ older members, medics and firemen alike sit around and tell stories. They talk of old calls, and the way things ‘outta’ be. New folks are encouraged here, but there is a bit of a peer pressure to keep the talk ‘on topic’. You learn here. Questions are asked and answered. Ideas are exchanged, and crews and units form and get stronger. There is a perceived pecking order, but all are welcome to attend and comment. And yes, the jokes here are usually the best too. This is a place of great camaraderie, but to someone off the street, it is very intimidating to approach and join in. If you doubt me, walk into a firehouse to say Hi and take a tour. The guys are almost all great people, but I know that first approach keeps most at bay.
I guess I’m trying to lay out what I see in this discussion. “We” the readers of JR, all really want both, in the right measure and we seem to be reaching for where that line is between them. I think that JP and the other authors would do well to understand that while this is one “site”, one Rink, they have two customer needs to address, and perhaps at times, they will be contradictory. I have commented socially, and had some great laughs at some off topic wit here. But I come in and read the links every day to learn and grow too. I don’t read the day’s comments, because by noon, (usually my first chance to check in) there are hundreds of them and that is too many to sort through myself. So I agree that is an issue.
I guess I’m not offering a solution, but hoping to crystallize the dilemma for you guys to help flesh out. I almost wonder if it is not as simple as “everything in it’s place”, coupled by the team self enforcement. Maybe a separate thread for “I’m just hear to commune with Caps fans about whatever it is we talk about today” is not a bad idea…. especially if it allows a place for us to discuss..and learn..about the finer points of cap management without comments on my favorite lines from such and such a cult movie.
Okay, I’ve rambled, as I’m prone to do, and I’ll keep my peace, just one ‘new guy’ opinion of a great place. I’m adding a title..so you can collapse this text wall next time through. I’m a good citizen, or try to be.
"Right now, I can't wait for the playoffs." -- Mike Green 1/18/2010
by VaMedic on Jan 28, 2010 5:53 PM EST up reply actions 9 recs
I believe one of my first comments here in ‘08 was based on the fact I had some silly wry ’shopped picture and I didn’t know where to put it.
It’s not something found on the web so it’s not really a classic FanShot, but to be a FanPost it needs a bunch of words, or I could drop it in the middle of nowhere in an existing thread and that didn’t seem right either.
Now today I know where I’d personally put it, but there isn’t always a set place or time for an opinion, and that’s to be expected/generally okay too
Excellent Post
You weren’t rambling at all. I think you’re also spot-on about the different constituencies. I lean pretty heavily toward stats and analysis, while other people around here are interested in the day-to-day activities of the players. It doesn’t mean that one type of fan is better, we’re just different, that’s all.
What I think is called for is for people to limit their silliness/off-topic humor to appropriate threads. I’ve been in on some Caps Clips thread that got downright hilarious, and the same thing goes for the GDTs as well. However there are a lot of people interjecting this informal banter where it doesn’t belong.
To use your terminology: everyone is welcome to chat informally in the appropriate forum, but if you’re going to sit down at the “Bay Table” you’d better act accordingly.
This is not a game of who the f*ck are you...
Thank you. Posting a first ‘real opinion’ post on a thread about proper posting etc, is intimidating.
I think the Open Game Threads are just that ‘open’. And probably ought to be more the ‘comfie bar’ type thing. I think some articles are clearly more scholarly and the comments there should respect that. I guess the gray area (and the place I go every day for my news) is the clips pages.
What is the thought there?
"Right now, I can't wait for the playoffs." -- Mike Green 1/18/2010
Personally, I think Caps Clips are slightly more formal than GDTs (which need to be free-flowing to work), but much less formal than other posts (although others may disagree). In the past, we’ve encouraged people to take any off-topic stuff to the Clips post, which serves as a catch-all for general hockey stuff and also provides people a place to chat during the day. I’m not sure if J.P. and the other authors intend for it to be that way, so this is just my opinion, but I think that gives people a good outlet.
This is not a game of who the f*ck are you...
Part of the problem is that the “catch-all” is starting to include stuff that is completely non-hockey related. And the Caps Clips start with hockey articles, so the people that want to talk about the articles have to sift through hundreds of irrelevant comments to get to the nuggets of value. I lean in favor of a Chatty Cathy’s thread; I’m less concerned about the problem of enforcing than I am about having Clips threads flooded with non-hockey stuff.
Now let's say you and I go toe to toe on bird law and see who comes out the victor.
I know when I work during the day, I keep the Caps Clips up just to stay up on what’s happening and the like. I like the slightly OT feel of it, but it can become burdensome when just checking in and seeing 600+ comments by lunch time. I hate using shift+A because I feel like I’ll miss something good. And there are plenty of good things coming out of the comments on the Clips posts.
I have the same problem, particularly because I’m on the west coast and usually don’t get to the Caps Clips til at least noon EST. But I find that when threads shift to topics I’m not into it’s really not that hard to z through the whole thread (although as I mentioned elsewhere, that is where a “collapse” option would be useful.
How do you say "Third Wheel" in Russian?
by SeattleCapsFan on Jan 28, 2010 7:16 PM EST up reply actions
It’s not hard to Z through a thread, but I feel like I might be skipping over something good. I don’t know if that’s just me or not.
The collapse feature is not a bad idea, but I would hate to see an “ignore user” feature. I’ve seen this on message boards and you still see all the responses to the ignored user, and I personally think it’s kinda silly. Everyone is guilty of posting something that adds nothing to the conversation, but I just couldn’t see flat out ignoring one person. Maybe if I had beef with said user, but I just couldn’t see myself doing that.
Great post guys, thanks. I am a longtime hockey & Caps fan, but didn’t actually start getting into the nitty gritty of hockey until the last few years since graduating from college (was a Cornell season ticket holder and got sucked in). That was one of two reasons I joined the Rink, I appreciate the knowledge that Rink writers and commentators are bringing. It helps me apply what I do know and learn things I don’t. I’ve learned more about the game of hockey in the last 8 months since joining the Rink than I ever knew growing up as a Caps/Cornell fan.
In my quest to find the aforementioned hockey/Caps insight, I stumbled through several different blogs (Vogs and CI specifically). That brings me to the other reason I joined the Rink, which several of the commentators above alluded to but IMO didn’t mention forcefully enough. I came here in search of hockey/Caps insight, but I stayed here because of the notable lack of childish phrases like Cindy Crysby and Philthy…which is why I wholeheartedly applaud BP et al’s policing efforts.
If you would be pissed if a guy wearing black and orange started telling you that the Crapitals suck, then don’t act like that yourself. To be honest, none of those pet names are new or clever. They aren’t funny. So what’s the point?
This. This. This. This. If the Rink is going to remain an “elitist” blog, which from what I gather is why most of the commentators here joined to begin with, we need to refrain from this kind of middleschool-esque namecalling. In jest, on occasion, it can be funny (the recent use of Gir-poo comes to mind…he’s a) one of our players and b) I’m pretty sure the comment that used that petname was all snark anyway). But other than that, it detracts from the force of your argument and the quality of the community as a whole. And I will continue to call people out on that, and support anyone else who does as well.
It’s all about respect.
How do you say "Third Wheel" in Russian?
by SeattleCapsFan on Jan 28, 2010 5:37 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
I’ve learned more about the game of hockey in the last 8 months since joining the Rink than I ever knew growing up as a Caps/Cornell fan.
Well obviously, you’re being schooled by some Colgate boys now.
Now let's say you and I go toe to toe on bird law and see who comes out the victor.
by Rob Parker on Jan 28, 2010 5:45 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
BRING IT!
How do you say "Third Wheel" in Russian?
by SeattleCapsFan on Jan 28, 2010 5:46 PM EST up reply actions
I concur with a lot of what has been posted here. I figured I’d just add my 2 cents.
I’ve only been posting here for six weeks or so, but in that time I have already close to 1/3 the number of comments than at a football board I’ve posted at over the last 4 years. Yes, you read that right. To make things seem more imbalanced with my post totals I have been a moderator at said board for the past year and a half. And I will explain why this is relevant.
I lurked here for a looooong time. I think I found the site shortly after Hanlon was fired. I was actually in Africa with, extremely limited internet, when he was fired, and really out of the loop on all things Caps. Well I got back home, and one of the first things I did was attend a game at the Phone Booth where I saw our Capitals lose a 5-2 tilt to the Canadiens in December. Believe it or not, this is December of 2007, and the stands were STILL pretty empty. I still can’t believe how quick that turnaround happened, but I love it.
Well at one point I looked behind the bench and I was like, “who the hell is that?!” This is still less than a month into Boudreau’s tenure, I had been home for less than a week, jet lagged, and really hadn’t caught back up enough with the Caps since returning home to know that Glen Hanlon had been fired. One of the first things I did after the game was start reading back up on the Caps, and in the process of that I stumbled upon the Rink.
Now this is part of the story when I explain why I brought up that football board in the first place. While I was in Africa there were some big changes to the board, designed to make things better. From a content and aesthetic standpoint it did. But for some reason the community didn’t adjust, or never adjusted well. I now actively dread going to that board knowing what I’m going to read. It’s excessively miserable, the average level of analysis is so and so sucks, my grandmother can hit harder then him, and much much worse. No joke, I have seen posters challenge one another to fights. Actual fights, as in, “if I ever see you in person I’ll beat your ass!” We’ve even had posters hint at arranging them, but we would try to ban them before it got that far. But it can get pretty brutal.
The one reason I still post there, and still fulfill my duties as a moderator, is that there are a handful of people who have been posting there for a long time, who do have good analysis, good points, bring up interesting arguments, and aren’t looking to rehash the same argument over and over (you think 3 posts about Sasha in a week is bad here? we once went an entire month where 90% of the topics, at least, were about the same 2 subjects). I stay for them, the problem is threads that they start, or contribute, are constantly filled with the others who spew BS. Long story short, that board is extremely frustrating to be a part of, and now that I am staff over there, it is even harder because it is that much harder to get away. Before I was a moderator I would go months at a time without posting, or even checking, because I just couldn’t bring myself to read some of what was written. I can’t do that anymore.
Now this brings me back to the Rink. I could tell immediately that this place was different. I checked the site frequently after I first found it, and started checking it daily shortly after Huet was acquired and it became apparent the Caps were going to go all out in a sprint to the finish. Since then the only days I have not at least checked in on the Rink have been days where for one reason or another I did not have internet access.
I was happy for a while just to read the content, which was so far beyond anything I had seen in a Blog before. I didn’t actually start reading the comments until midway through last season. Even then, I hesitated to join because I was so busy for most of last year, and because I could tell that the Rink was different enough from other places that I wanted to get to know more about it, and it’s community before I took the leap. And I learned, when I finally joined the “commentariat” 6 weeks ago, I came ready with an avatar!
After my experience on that football blog I was really skeptical that anything close to a community as “elite” as this one could ever be established on the internet. Japers’ Rink has proved me wrong, and I am so grateful I found it and that you all do such a wonderful job maintaining it. I also realize that there is a strong element of “team toughness” among the long time posters (and even short timers) when it comes to calling people out on their BS. I firmly believe that most Rink members feel strong enough about this place that they will stand up for it. And quite frankly it is more than worth standing up for. There are some other good hockey blogs (and other sports too)out there, but none that offer this level of content, or this strong a posting community.
Thank you JP, DMG, Pepper, Becca, Tuvan, for everything you have done. And to all of you in the commentating community, thank you for proving that civility, respect, and reasonable discussion do have a place on the internet. That place is here at the rink.
—BFV
by BradleyFightingVehicle on Jan 28, 2010 6:26 PM EST reply actions 6 recs
As usual, I’m late to the party, but I’ll do my best to keep it concise. I also forewarn that I have not gone through most of the comments, so forgive me any repetition.
Japer’s Rink, to me, is synonymous with the Washington Capitals; it is the only place I enjoy and trust enough to get my news, read the opinions, and respond (and perhaps originate) with the confidence that I will be read and appreciated for what it offers (even if it’s simply a Jizz joke – I’m trying to cut back, I swear).
I’ve come to respect all of you in different ways, as we all offer different aspects to the conversation, whether that be pics or stats or anecdotes or full-on posts. I’ve come to recognize all of the regular voices and miss some when they’re not there (F&B pops to mind, as he never joins until well after I’ve gotten myself way too deep in work to continue contributing in a timely manner).
D’ohboy’s bar analogy strikes me as particularly poignant, because that’s also what I’ve come to feel about this place. The background noise isn’t getting to me, yet, but the potential for so is very real. And there’s nothing you can do about it.
J.P., DMG, Becca, Tuvan, and Peps: you all contribute excellent material. You’ve given me more than I could have ever hoped for in a Capitals’ forum. And it’s being recognized as such, given the increased commenting and the, likely, larger lurker community. Excellence is being justly rewarded with attention. Japer’s Rink is, for others, becoming synonymous with Caps’ hockey.
But it brings us to a realization: we don’t want to become Puck Daddy, do we?
Luckily, as long as we stay a Capital-centric blog, we will continue to have lower numbers and should be able to avoid syndication.
Unless that’s where you want to go.
To me, it makes no difference. You’ll continue to write and I’ll continue to absorb, and I’ll comment if I feel like it and I won’t if I don’t. I’ll still have my few buddies, as will everyone else.
I will, however, be angry if we get so big that I don’t get to play in the JR Pick-up games because we have too many. If ever we reach that point, perhaps another “State of the blog” will be necessary.
by DrinkingPartner on Jan 28, 2010 6:36 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
I think there are some things we can do to keep the background noise at bay:
A) Keep making intelligent comments: lead by example;
B) Keep writing intelligent FanPosts and FanShots: ditto;
C) Encourage others by commenting/rec’ing things that deserve it (I still feel guilty that I didn’t get a chance to reply to F&B’s Penalty Kill post because work intervened, and that was a while ago);
D) Regulate people within threads by gently nudging them toward better comments; and
E) Just ignore the people who make poor comments – I think eventually people want to engage in conversation and if they want to do so, they’ve got to meet our expectations – I think they’ll do so eventually.
This is not a game of who the f*ck are you...
Again, thanks to everyone for really thoughtful (and meaningful) comments.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
There’s a reason why I stopped posting at CI (well, I only posted like 5 comments) and came here.
When I had season tickets last year, and was getting back into Caps hockey after a “hibernation” period, I really was not a hockey fan. I only had the “Caps rule, everyone else sucks” mentality, which was topped off by booing Crosby everytime he touched the puck and catcalling/jeering at the other team’s fans. Looking back, I wonder why I ever would have done those types of things. Sure, it’s not like I committed a crime or anything, but being an educated, passionate hockey fan really beats being a fairweather, rude one (don’t assume – I went to my first game in 2000, when Calle Johansson, Peter Bondra, and Sergei Gonchar were still around). Now, having been “Japer-ized” (yes, that’s a coined term now), it’s great to look at hockey from a broader, less-biased perspective, and this blog has really helped me out in that aspect. I feel more educated as a fan and as an analyst, and posting and chatting with people who take the same view as me gives me the best insight on everything Capitals. Like F&B said waaaaaaay above, this blog should be known as a troll-free environment, and it should have a lot of great insight and posting about the Caps, which I think has been done, seeing as this blog is #1 in hockey, and that makes me proud.
This is a great, great blog with great, great people, and I know we all have no purposes of trolling or being obnoxious with other hockey blogs and fans. If anything, I think we try and un-troll them (another coined phrase). You don’t see other SB Nation blogs that get as much traffic as this one does, and to see more and more great, knowledgeable fans come on board makes me happy. If we can keep it this way, heck, who knows how great it’ll be in the future.
I echo the above thoughts. Let’s keep it nice, fun, and knowledgeable.
Thanks to the management, my fellow bloggers, and hopefully the new ones that will be coming soon.
Let’s get Japer-ized!
When you dance with the devil, you wait for the song to stop.
by Steck It Out on Jan 28, 2010 8:54 PM EST reply actions 3 recs
I know I'm way late to the party...
… but I just finished reading this entire thread (took forever, but definitely worth it!), so I thought I’d add my thoughts :)
I completely agree with DrinkingPartner in that to me, this blog is synonymous with the Washington Capitals. I rarely ever go anywhere else, unless it’s in the Clips thread, because I feel like this place provides the most comprehensive coverage. You all know I’m a teacher, and I really do believe “you learn something new every day” – and the Rink has been a significant source of my learning. Although I’ve been a Caps fan since I was a kid, I’m far from an expert, so I love having a place like this to learn and grow as a fan.
The other aspect I’ve more recently come to enjoy is the camaraderie of the Rink Rats and Rabbits. I was honestly afraid to comment for a long time, because I felt like I never had anything intelligent or insightful to add. I know I’m guilty of going OT at times (we all are, I suppose), but I’m definitely trying to work on it. I’ve started reading more and commenting less. If I hadn’t gotten over the “I’m not good/smart/cool enough” thing, though, I never would have met so many of you who I consider real friends now. I love the feeling that there’s probably always going to be someone at practice/games/events to meet up with. Not to mention the pick-up game, Hershey trip, Rabbit shirts, away game viewing parties… what an incredible community this is. The tweet mentioned earlier about “lots of friends to be made” is SO true – you all are awesome.
"No Brooks Laich, no win. Know Brooks Laich, know win."
by kellobellow on Jan 28, 2010 9:02 PM EST reply actions 3 recs
I’m in the same boat as Kellobellow. I’ve been reading this site since the blogspot days and only occasionally posted over there. When it moved to SBN and the community grew, I was totally intimidated by the knowledge and savvy of the commenters. I felt like I could never add to the conversation. I couldn’t even tell you what my first comment was on here, but the “Get to Know You” post really helped, I think. If I hadn’t started commenting, I wouldn’t have met some really awesome people. I even discovered that folks on here actually sit in my section at VC!
This is just an awesome place, and it has become my first stop on the internet every single day. (and I usually don’t leave until I turn off my computer) Sometimes, I forget that I haven’t checked my email because I get so caught up in the links and comments over here. I’m not the most educated hockey fan, and I’ve learned so much from the writers and commenters here. My first game ever was Ovi’s first game his rookie year right after the lock out. I fell in love with this sport and have been trying to learn as much as I can. I’m still not a big stat person, but appreciate them and like reading about them. I love the analysis here, and I can’t think of a better site for any team in any sport that I’ve ever seen.
I'll admit, I haven't read most of the things yet, and I'll do that after posting (Normally I do this the other way around)
There’s a ton of great comments here, and I have to say things are outstanding, and much better than I thought they’d be making the jump from blogspot to SBnation. I’ve been talking a lot with eightyseven of Nucks Misconduct, and I mentioned the pick up game last night. “You guys have actually met in real life and play pick up?” was basically the response I had.
I have to say that the site has become far more than a “blog”. Yes, at it’s fundamental core, that’s what it is, but I honestly view Japers’ Rink as a fraternity. I view you guys like brothers and sisters all with the same cause – to support a common team, and to do it in a high class (For the most part) environment with well thought out discussion. Take for instance, that despite all of the bickering and arguing we do, that it’s all thrown out the window with a Semin tally, and then a new discussion will start. The Rink even has it’s own initiation rituals (Getting called out for not having an avatar, and your first time realizing it’s ok to have a differing opinion, and getting used to how to do it in the way we prefer to do it)
We once had a discussion about how a ton of us were better behaved on the other SBN blogs than at the rink, The Rink is like our living room, and we kind of toss our crap everywhere, and we don’t really think or care about what we say sometimes, and then no one else has a problem calling you out on your nonsense, while other blogs we treat with the utmost respect, because we’re in someone else’s home.
The Rink is a daily go-to on my list of websites, (Behind Gmail), and frankly, I can’t really find a better way to spend days. I’ve skipped classes just to come read the Rinks’ updates on the deadline. I’ve talked hockey, food, video games, fashion, tv shows, school, and many other left behind topics here. I’ve met plenty of you, and I hope to meet more, as I have yet to meet a Rink Rat or Rabbit I didn’t enjoy meeting.
My way to improve the rink? I hope every lurker becomes a full fledged poster. The more discussion, the better. I’d encourage every member to make at least one FanPost and one FanShot. I’d like to get some form of JR meet ups more often, and frankly, I’d like to get to know everyone better. Somehow, this is a place where a guy who has medical conditions galore and pretty rough social anxiety has found a niche where he can be himself without worry, and I don’t care if F&B calls me a man-lover for that.
Keep up the good work, Rats/Rabbits.
Familiar Rapports: Bald Pollack, F&B, Gould Old Days.
Lobbies: Osala, Perreault, Erskine, Pothier, Neuvirth, Flash.
Fan of: Mean Lars Backstrom, Line Mashing, Cake.
by Whiter Mage on Jan 28, 2010 9:04 PM EST reply actions 9 recs
This is closest to the way I feel.
I pretty much started posting here specifically because it’s almost a chat room atmosphere. I wouldn’t have gone to a meetup of CI commenters because all they do is bitch about the team and hockey and the NHL and rules and trades, etc. Sure, they’re mostly Caps fans, but what the hell else do I know about them? Here, due to all of the zany OT stuff that goes on, I felt like I already knew half of the folks that were at the viewing party, their favorite players, senses of humor and all that.
At the Pens/Caps party, it was even easier, and now for the second pickup game and upcoming Hershey trip, it’s like I’m just going to hang out with the guys (and girls) on my team or something. This is the stuff to me that’s more important or special or unique about this place. The fact that I can have my mind changed about an issue, or change someone’s mind, or learn something about a sport I’ve been watching and player my whole life is a close second.
My ability to post is only surpassed by my ability to pinch pennies.
by jordanDC on Jan 28, 2010 9:40 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Awww. I feel all warm and fuzzy now.
WM just summed up my feelings perfectly.
Tom Brady is Sidney Crosby, except Tom Brady has felt the touch of a woman, and has his own house.
Click on my SBN profile, see how many comments I’ve left in Japers’, and compare that to Pensburgh.
Then consider that I am a Penguins die-hard. That should tell you a little something about the quality of this blog, from an outsider’s perspective.
(Note: It’s nothing against the writers of Pensburgh- Hooks and Frank, who I think do a great job)
by Link_Gaetz on Jan 29, 2010 7:50 AM EST reply actions 4 recs
It’s the community, isn’t it? I’ve been over there a few times and it gets nasty. We don’t get nasty – we might throw a book at you sometimes, but it’s generally to prove a point, as opposed to insult hurling.
by DrinkingPartner on Jan 29, 2010 8:00 AM EST up reply actions
coughcoughporcupinecough
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Jan 29, 2010 9:08 AM EST up reply actions
But I don’t think he even posts at Pensburgh. Even he is above the nonsense that goes on over there.
Now let's say you and I go toe to toe on bird law and see who comes out the victor.
Oh yeah, I was just laughing at DP saying we don’t get nasty. Sometimes we do…
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Jan 29, 2010 4:33 PM EST up reply actions
It’s the community, isn’t it? I’ve been over there a few times and it gets nasty. We don’t get nasty – we might throw a book at you sometimes, but it’s generally to prove a point, as opposed to insult hurling.
I’m disappointed if that goes on more than I pick up on. I like it just as much as anyone when an opposing fan comes over and makes a valid observation or sparks a good debate with a viewpoint I might not see from my perspective.
"I'm glad I got drafted first, because no one remembers number two." -- Alexandre Daigle
by Hooks Orpik on Feb 1, 2010 3:28 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I’ll also note that I really enjoy having “outside” fans come here for intelligent discussion. It can break up instances of group-think. Some of my favorite discussions on here have been with Hooks.
This is not a game of who the f*ck are you...
It’s true. I love the fact that opposing teams’ fans choose to come here and — more important — that they don’t get shouted down right off the bat. Their input adds to all our depth, ad everyone’s civility helps keep this place great.
"Camaraderie, that's what the Washington Capitals are all about."
by CapitalCentre on Jan 29, 2010 12:36 PM EST up reply actions
Then consider that I am a Penguins die-hard. That should tell you a little something about the quality of this blog, from an outsider’s perspective.
(Note: It’s nothing against the writers of Pensburgh- Hooks and Frank, who I think do a great job)
This place is obviously special and has a great community, but I think there’s something to be said for trying to build your own. So I don’t knock you for posting here more (I’m around a lot too) but I would hope you try to add to the tone and conversation more at Pensburgh to help bring us up a notch.
(Sorry to shill / self-promote, just something honest to get off the chest)
"I'm glad I got drafted first, because no one remembers number two." -- Alexandre Daigle
by Hooks Orpik on Feb 1, 2010 3:31 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
After re-reading that didn’t come across quite like I meant.
To clarify: This place deservedly won that #1 ranking for hockey blogs recently because the writers have quality stuff and the community has attracted a solid and knowledgable lot….I don’t fault any fan for wanting to to be a part, but to me you should also be interested in adding to the discourse of your team’s SB Nation blog to help them get towards this place. I think that may make a little more sense.
Anyways, thanks for the mentions BP, UF and D’ohboy….Glad I can be a very small piece of your enjoyment, this is a solid community and one I’m trying to model my own blog after. I invite anyone to be more active at Pensburgh if there’s an angle you feel you could add on topics.
"I'm glad I got drafted first, because no one remembers number two." -- Alexandre Daigle
by Hooks Orpik on Feb 1, 2010 3:56 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Agreed – if you see things you like about other SBN blogs (or any blog), I’d hope you’d bring that to your favorite team’s SBN blog and try to make it even better than it already is. It really does take a village, and the bloggers themselves can only do so much.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
I think this goes both ways, though. If there’s things you see you dislike, hopefully you don’t bring that home. I guess that goes without saying.
Familiar Rapports: Bald Pollack, F&B, Gould Old Days.
Lobbies: Osala, Perreault, Erskine, Pothier, Neuvirth, Flash.
Fan of: Mean Lars Backstrom, Line Mashing, Cake.
Some readers may indict a Rink author for fantasy-hockey navel-gazing or statistical gerrymandering, but I don’t think it’s ever with the intent to artificially inflate any player’s performance.
(BTW, Nylander leads the Capitals in trips to Michigan and Sweden this year.)
The amount of time I’ve spent on other Caps-related websites has waned to naught since finding the blogspot incarnation of Japers’ Rink. It’s simply the best Caps-related site on the web, despite whatever misgivings individual readers may have.
We keep coming back, don’t we?
Pick SPG for your chance to win probably nothing.
The incredible leap to more diverse interactions with each other
What sets the Rink apart as a blog, imo, is the blossom of the community relationships offline. The power of communication within communities, reinforced by sharing and practicing together, is remarkably evident here at the Rink.
When I first read about the prospect of a pick up game among fellow posters, I asked around with my hockey crew here in MT and all agreed that it was a first. It took a bit of explaining; a few of these dudes work in the mine nearby, and they in particular are pretty jealous dismissive of my 3-4 hour/day habit. I credit F&B’s pickup game concept in dispelling a notion prevalent among some of these guys, that people online never meet in real life because, somehow, being online to these fellas isn’t reality. So it’s a real credit not only to F&B to generate the psych, but for the community to embrace it and desire to come into view.
Hockey has always been such a significant thread in my life and it’s been such a pleasure to find a place like this, where the passion is so strong. I’m also from the blogspot days and the evolution of the community has been incredible.
This place is Cadillac. Thanks.
Driving under the influence of hockey since godknow's when.
by bigonetimer on Jan 29, 2010 8:59 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
Knowledge + Camaraderie
It’s hard to offer something new on top of what has already been said, but if I had to summarize the effect that Japers’ Rink has had on me, it would be that this website now completely dominates my Internet-using habits. I cannot articulate how much time I’ve spent on this site both at home and at work. I’m only half-joking when I say that my work ethic has probably suffered tremendously the last year or so.
Knowledge and camaraderie. Two intangibles very difficult, if not impossible, to measure. But as someone who comes from a background steeped in both, they’re each easy to feel, you know it when you feel ‘em, and I feel exposed to both every day that I come here. There is an overwhelming sense of familiarity that I have with many of you, even if the feeling is likely not mutual since I don’t comment as much. You won’t see me dropping any in-depth, technical analysis, but I certainly am I sponge when someone else does. I’m a smarter hockey fan for it.
Like a few others have said (D’ohboy absolutely NAILED it above), sure, I’d prefer to only have to read a select number of commenters. But I would also say that none of us should expect SBNation or the moderators of this site to be anyone’s filter. I’m a smart guy, I know who to read and who to quickly skip over. I also like, and look forward to, the different “styles” of posts and the different types of comments to be found on each. I’d leave the current commenting system as is.
by Cluster on Jan 29, 2010 12:00 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
some may want to throw F&B under this bus for perceived behavior on SBN
I don’t know if everyone agrees with BP, or if people just don’t want to confront me on it, but I would like to make it clear that if other people think I cross the line, or I represent the Rink poorly on another site, you should most definitely call me out for it. I’m not trying to develop a bad reputation for us or ruin anyone else’s away games, so if I am I apologize and you should most definitely say something to me (preferably here amongst our own). Team toughness applies all around, and I do expect people here to hold me to the same standards that have been articulated throughout this post and thread.
Now let's say you and I go toe to toe on bird law and see who comes out the victor.
Hooray!
But I wasn’t too worried about you guys. I haven’t had any serious throw downs on your turf. Haven’t had to because you run a pretty good ship. Now, a couple other places…
And kudos to you for making it through this whole thing. Was it just curiosity?
Now let's say you and I go toe to toe on bird law and see who comes out the victor.
Yes
Part curiousity, part learning experience.
I definitely look at Japers’ as a guideline for how to run a great team blog so I try to take as much direction as I can from here.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
My boss would like a word with the staff regarding my production during the months of September to June……
Japers’ Rink is the only place I go for news, analysis, and anything related to the Capitals mainly due to the insight and hockey smarts of the staff and the commentors, but also because of the snark and witty banter. It is also a haven from homerism, nastiness, and ill will that saturates most other Capitals sites I have visited; however, for a newbie to the site and to the world of hockey in general, the amount of hockey knowledge held by the staff and frequent commentors can be quite intimidating to the uninitiated making it is difficult to even begin to try and add anything of substance or value without coming off sounding like a dolt or complete tool.
Thinking before posting…. I am guilty of not following this rule and want to apologize to JP and everyone else for past transgressions and idiocy.
by SethB on Jan 29, 2010 4:28 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
This is a great heart-to-heart thread. Great job to everyone here who made a post. I’ve never seen so much green (on these threads). I would make a ten paragraph comment, but everyone else here basically already said what I was going to say, which is why this a great place to come. It’s clear that the feelings about the blog, the team, and the hockey world are mutual.
Because what goes on above the red bar that says “Comments” truly is more important than what happens below it.
I agree with this because it makes me think of how this blog has taken on the personality of the Capitals franchise. It has great ownership, great management, and great players. Where does it start though? At the top (ownership and management). No, it’s not some cliche thrown around by commentators, journalists, and fans. [insert Dan Snyder joke here] The writers have done a great job, and there’s versatility among them as well. I can’t think of many blogs where I’m reading Russian translated stories about Semin and Ovie eating cheeseburgers. Quite simply put, the dedication and consistency of the material has molded this site into the gold standard of hockey blogs. I think I type “japersink.com” just as much as I type “google.com.” That’s a lot, trust me.
This is also the first site I’ve been to that represents a true community. In my opinion, this makes the Rink far ahead of its time. In the future, I believe the internet will be a staple in social gatherings worldwide (take a gander at Second Life). The pick-up game(s), Hershey trips, and viewing parties are only the beginning. In my eyes, this is an underground fan club. A fraternity that happens to be free. The sky is the limit, and pretty soon this “community” will potentially be a city.
Revenge is a dish best served cold.
by bigmac1124 on Jan 29, 2010 8:54 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
loving the parallel between blog management and team management.
I think I type "japersink.com" just as much as I type "google.com."
consider a google toolbar? i mean, you should clearly type japersrink.com far more than google.com..
by Natty Bumppo on Jan 30, 2010 12:31 AM EST up reply actions
In chrome I don’t get past “J.”
Now let's say you and I go toe to toe on bird law and see who comes out the victor.
by Rob Parker on Jan 30, 2010 1:09 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
You have to type a letter?
Shocking.
Test of a true Rink Rat (who uses Firefox):
1. Open a new tab.
2. Hit down arrow twice.
3. If you are not on Japers’ Rink… FAIL.
PuckDaddy be damned, I'm putting CincoCinco on the back of a Schultz jersey!
by Chris meet Alex on Feb 1, 2010 1:00 PM EST up reply actions
*
er…
2.0.1 Hit Enter.
PuckDaddy be damned, I'm putting CincoCinco on the back of a Schultz jersey!
by Chris meet Alex on Feb 1, 2010 1:00 PM EST up reply actions
Open Firefox, it’s already there.
Homepage, son.
My ability to post is only surpassed by my ability to pinch pennies.
I feel pwnd.
PuckDaddy be damned, I'm putting CincoCinco on the back of a Schultz jersey!
by Chris meet Alex on Feb 1, 2010 1:52 PM EST up reply actions
I don't know if I'm jumping onto this thread late
But, I duno, I"m very mildly saddened(?) by some of the thoughts in here. I think saddened is the wrong word.
Anyways, I wasn’t a huge hockey fan before I started visiting this site probably a year or so ago, I think this site has definitely made me a more interested fan.. And I only started commenting here a few weeks ago, and not in great numbers. I guess I don’t feel like I have enough knowledge to add to actual hockey talk and so I generally keep my comments restricted to more trivial subjects. I feel like the general feeling is that I should just shut up then? I mean I love reading the hockey talk, and I learn new things each day but I certainly don’t hold a candle to all you hockey lifers.
Honestly, that’s the impression I got from this post but I wouldn’t let it discourage you.
Tom Brady is Sidney Crosby, except Tom Brady has felt the touch of a woman, and has his own house.
by Ovechwin on Jan 30, 2010 7:28 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I feel like the general feeling is that I should just shut up then?
Absolutely not. You should comment as much as you’re comfortable commenting if you think it’s either adding to the overall discussion or to your enjoyment or understanding of the game.
Read over the thread and you’ll see that plenty of folks once felt like it seems you do now, and now they’re among our most active and appreciated community members. The important thing is for you to get out of the site what you want to get out of it; hopefully you will.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
by J.P. on Jan 30, 2010 9:04 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Even more important that you post and comment. Maybe you have a question? Feel free to ask. Opinion? Go for it. Too many people use the “How long have you watched?” garbage argument that really doesn’t mean a thing. My thoughts are seriously, if you have an opinion, post it. If people jump on you, so what? People do it all the time, and it’s never personal, and if you have a solid opinion, and people jump on you, and you defend it, hell, you’re ahead of the game. I love differentiating opinions, and I love the views of people who have watched forever and the people who just started yesterday. Of course, we’re all in that big section of in between, and I like hearing from all of them too.
Familiar Rapports: Bald Pollack, F&B, Gould Old Days.
Lobbies: Osala, Perreault, Erskine, Pothier, Neuvirth, Flash.
Fan of: Mean Lars Backstrom, Line Mashing, Cake.
An Anecdote About Fear and Lurking on the Internet
After reading several of the comments in the thread such as Steve’s and Renhoak’s above, I wanted to offer this little anecdote.
I’m a huge Seattle Mariners fan and, as such, I read several blogs about the Seattle Mariners including one on SBN called Lookout Landing. In fact, I’ve been reading Lookout Landing since before it was called Lookout Landing and well before it joined SBN a while back. All told, I’ve been reading that blog for around 6 years, give or take.
I commented on Lookout Landing for the first time about two weeks ago. I lurked at that site for over 5 years, and I didn’t post there until they had a fanpost that literally called out all the lurkers and encouraged us to speak up.
Why did I wait so long to post? Lots of reasons, but mostly out of fear. I love the Mariners, but I only like baseball in general. I play in a fantasy league, but I don’t follow the sport religiously like I do with hockey. Moreover, Seattle games are late at night here and even with MLB.tv I can rarely stay awake until the end of the game, so I often end up missing games. The crowd over at LL is, by and large, extremely knowledgeable about baseball and advanced statistics in particular. They make my lame forays into statistical analysis look like macaroni pictures from a preschool arts and crafts class.
Also, like Japers’ Rink, they’ve managed to create a really tight-knit community. They meet up frequently and they’ve even hosted (along with another blog called USS Mariner) a Q&A session with the Mariners’ front office staff. Like the regulars and the editors/writers here, they’re protective of the community they’ve built, and rightly so. But to an outsider who’s already slightly intimidated by the lacunae in his or her expertise relative to the regulars, this has the effect of creating an insurmountable barrier to entry.
I’m sure there are many newcomers and lurkers out there who feel this way about Japers’ Rink and I want to let you know that I, for one, know how you feel. I’m sure there are many other “regulars” on here who once felt like you did. We understand, and we don’t want you to feel overly intimidated. I think most of us want more people to join and participate with the rest of us Rink Rats.
This is not, however, an apology, nor is it a call for the community here to throw its arms wide open and pull everyone in. I think I can speak for most of the regulars here when I say that most of the regular Rink Rats came here because we found the alternatives wanting. As someone who occasionally perused the comments section of “Capitals Insider” before finding the Rink back when it was still on blogspot, this place was a revelation. Here was a place where the writers actually knew what they were talking about, and where the commenters were just as savvy. Even better, people were civil with each other and wrote with clarity, proper spelling and punctuation.
It was like stumbling upon an everlasting spring gurgling with crystal clear, ice cold Evian after forty years in the desert.
Suddenly, there was no more “FIRST11!!!!!!1” or “SHOTGUN11!!!1.” We didn’t have to hear things like “Phuck Philthydelphia” every other sentence. “Jeff Schultz hits like a fairy and anyone who likes him is a fairy too,” didn’t pass for hard-hitting analysis at this new hockey oasis. Comments using statistics, full sentences and polysyllabic words weren’t written off as the work of “nerds/fags/nerd-fags.” This was a place for intelligent people to hold a civil, albeit sometimes spirited, conversation with other intelligent people about the game they love.
But see, you probably already knew this, because that’s why you came here in the first place. You probably came by and got hooked on the writing of J.P., DMG, Becca, Pepper and Tuvan, then stayed for the camaraderie of the comment threads. Maybe you just lurk, or maybe you comment every now and then. Maybe you’ve jumped in with both feet and become a regular commenter.
Regardless of which path you choose, all we ask is that you respect the community that the writers and commenters have built here. This goes out to Renhoak, Steve, all the newcomers and the hordes of lurkers: we want you here. We want you to read, join and participate. We just don’t want to lose the intelligent discourse and civility that made this our favorite place to come to talk about hockey.
If you’re a newcomer or lurker, right now you’re probably thinking, "Great. This guy is telling me to join and participate, but he’s also saying he wants intelligent discourse. I’m not suddenly going to wax eloquent on Corsi numbers, the intricacies of “the Code,” or the Left Wing Lock. I’m just going to keep my mouth shut."
If you want to stay on the sidelines, that’s certainly your right, but if you want to participate, the solution is very, very simple. Just ask questions. You don’t need to be Scotty Bowman right away. Just ask questions and someone, likely lots of someones, will answer. Depending on the question, you’ll probably get several different responses from various points of view. Then those people will start discussing the merits of their responses (arguing, really), and like that, you’ve spawned a conversation.
All you need to do is follow a few simple steps:
1) Keep it on-topic. Please don’t ask a question about Mike Green’s tattoos in a post about Tomas Fleischmann’s play as a center. If there’s a topic you’d really like to see addressed, ask about it in the Caps Clips or make a Fanpost. Fat_Daddyo made a FanPost a few days ago asking about Pythagorean Theorems for hockey and I’ve spent the better part of my last five evenings trying to come up with an answer for him. We’re like that around here.
2) Use proper spelling, punctuation and grammar. Honestly, it’s not that hard. We’re not going to berate you for making an it’s/its or their/they’re/there error, but if you resolutely refuse to use even basic punctuation or grammar it shows a lack of effort. Furthermore, SBN has a built-in spellchecker, so there really is no excuse. (This is obviously a little more flexible in the Game Threads, given the speed of the conversation.)
3) Try to ask things that aren’t easily Google-able. If you ask me how many goals Jeff Schultz has, you’ll probably get this as a reply. If you ask why Jeff Schultz seems to be getting more media attention this year, you’ll probably get ten responses and you’ll start a conversation.
4) Don’t be afraid to go against the prevailing opinion here. But don’t get butt-hurt and pout or descend into ad hominem attacks when people don’t agree with you. If you do that, you’ll quickly end up as a running joke.
5) Keep it respectful. Asking “How can you be so stupid as to think that Chris Bourque will ever be an NHL player?” will probably get you dismissed out of hand. Asking, “Why do you think Chris Bourque will ever be more than an AHL All-Star?” will probably get a lengthy reply.
6) Don’t get discouraged. This is an extension of #4 – if nobody answers your question, or if they answer it in a way you don’t like, don’t give up. Ask a few more. You don’t become BFFs instantly with people in real life and this place is no different. If you follow steps 1-5, people won’t hold you at arm’s length forever.
7) Get an avatar. I had to put this one in here, otherwise Bald Pollack would kill me.
8) Learn to use the formatting tools and preview your posts. The preview button is your friend and it will keep you out of trouble. Learn to embrace it. The formatting buttons are pretty self-explanatory. If you’re having problems, feel free to ask and someone (likely Your Nation’s Capital) will help you out.
9) At the risk of getting sued by Nike – JUST DO IT! Don’t be like me with Lookout Landing. Don’t lurk for five years; it’s better on the inside, trust me.
This is not a game of who the f*ck are you...
by D'ohboy on Jan 31, 2010 2:26 AM EST reply actions 14 recs
See, that comic is the kind of unnecessary, threadjacking, offensive “joke” in response to a long, heartfelt comment that we’re all talking about.
Oh wait, hi JP.
[pssst — this was snark. Look, that was JP posting the goofy comic. See, we’re really honestly not saying “don’t ever post a gag or a one-liner”]
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Jan 31, 2010 10:36 AM EST up reply actions
Exactly. And it was directly related to the last line of the comment to which it was responding.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
Thank You
D’ohboy, F&B, G.O.D., Knee High, and to so many others responding in this post -
You all are top notch, first class. This is a phenomenal post and set of comments. I am inspired by the depth of sincerity and caring for the Japers’ Rink community that is so exceptionally on display. In my short time here at the Rink, I have never felt unwelcome. But now more than ever, I do feel most welcome, and at home. And it feels good.
Gouldie...
…thank you for the kind words. I appreciate them.
Someone tell me how I missed this thread with all these comments? I need to stop watching Center Ice every night No… that I can’t do.
Let's go Caps!
Not as much as we all appreciate the bonus recaps, I’m sure. Cheers.
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Feb 1, 2010 4:14 PM EST up reply actions
TV Coverage...
is this game on any TV anywhere?
by TheFuryUnleashed on Feb 4, 2010 7:02 PM EST reply actions
this post was beautiful and mega cathartic, but i don’t think it’s made one lick of difference. and the two comments directly above aren’t helping to change my mind.
by Natty Bumppo on Feb 9, 2010 12:49 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
I think it’s more confusion on their part.
(On Mike Green) He’s urban, you northern folk wouldn’t understand!
Yeah, I open a ton of windows at the same time as well because there’ll be often multiple stories being commented on at a given moment.
Ovechkin = Green Backs
by red army line on Feb 9, 2010 2:04 PM EST up reply actions
and one of the points hammered home by many of the readers was “take more time to think before you post.”
Just because someone says something doesn’t mean everyone must abide by it.
(On Mike Green) He’s urban, you northern folk wouldn’t understand!
It’s not just that someone said it, it’s who said it and the reaction it received. The aforementioned suggestion was one that was rec’d and agreed with by many posters.
"Dozens of people spontaneously combust each year. It's just not really widely reported."
by Laich It Or Lump It on Feb 9, 2010 2:38 PM EST up reply actions
Essentially, you’re telling people on the internet (Some still masked) to not be stupid. That’s not really plausible, though I am with you.
Familiar Rapports: Bald Pollack, F&B, Gould Old Days.
Lobbies: Osala, Perreault, Erskine, Pothier, Neuvirth, Flash.
Fan of: Mean Lars Backstrom, Line Mashing, Cake.
Maybe not everyone took it to heart, but I did. I changed up my MO a bit. The problem may be that the people who would most likely benefit from this post are the ones who didn’t read it.
"Dozens of people spontaneously combust each year. It's just not really widely reported."
by Laich It Or Lump It on Feb 9, 2010 2:35 PM EST up reply actions
I think there’s been a change in behavior by some parties and it’s been for the better. It didn’t cure everything right away and there’s still a ways to go, but I do think there’s been an impact. It ended up more ‘love-in’ than I’d hoped, but I guess that was a fairly predictable reaction.
I’ve seen comments like that pop up in highly recommended fanposts before, I’m not sure if someone posted those somewhere else and they ended up here, but it’s at least possible, given the dislocation of other posts in single threads.
Only YOU can prevent idiots from commenting!
by Knee high to a duck on Feb 9, 2010 5:56 PM EST up reply actions
What is Japers’ Rink, fundamentally?
What enhances or detracts from your experience on the site?
What would you like The Rink to be?
How do we get there from here?
We got too “love-in?” wtf is that supposed to mean, anyway? We answered all of the questions. If you wanted this to be you four telling us how you want things, then you should have said so from the start, rather than opening it for opinion. In fact, it seems to me like the four of you decided “This it the new way we’re doing things” and it’s been enforced. I don’t really mind so much, but don’t sugar coat it. It’s really annoying, because obviously, if you read the comments, different people want different things, and only yours get enforced.
Frankly, what did you expect our reaction to be?
“There’s been a change in behavior by some parties…for the better. It didn’t cure everything right away…”
So you’re basically saying you made this post with the intention of telling us how things need to be, but you hid it in the form of an interview, and then opened up the floor. Now you’re not happy with some of the answers, and you and the rest of the people who made the post are becoming policemen.
Please explain this isn’t true, because I know I’m not the only one who feels this way, and if this isn’t really how it is, I’d love that, because it’s kind of sick.
Familiar Rapports: Bald Pollack, F&B, Gould Old Days.
Lobbies: Osala, Perreault, Erskine, Pothier, Neuvirth, Flash.
Fan of: Mean Lars Backstrom, Line Mashing, Cake.
by Whiter Mage on Feb 9, 2010 6:42 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
We got too "love-in?" wtf is that supposed to mean, anyway? We answered all of the questions. If you wanted this to be you four telling us how you want things, then you should have said so from the start, rather than opening it for opinion. In fact, it seems to me like the four of you decided "This it the new way we’re doing things" and it’s been enforced. I don’t really mind so much, but don’t sugar coat it. It’s really annoying, because obviously, if you read the comments, different people want different things, and only yours get enforced.
I disagree with this completely. Here’s what I meant by “too love-in”: There was a lot of rah-rah rink is great – and it is. That wasn’t the focus, at least not to me. The focus, to me, was exactly what those questions were:
What is Japers’ Rink, fundamentally?
What enhances or detracts from your experience on the site?
What would you like The Rink to be?
How do we get there from here?
There was plenty of discussion of that and so there should have been. Just tossing out, in an off-hand way, what I perceived. The very last thing I want is a descent into group-think.
Frankly, what did you expect our reaction to be?
I had my hope for more debate, I said I supposed that what ensued, which wasn’t at all bad, simply not the platonic ideal, was too be expected.
There’s been a change in behavior by some parties…for the better. It didn’t cure everything right away…"
So you’re basically saying you made this post with the intention of telling us how things need to be, but you hid it in the form of an interview, and then opened up the floor. Now you’re not happy with some of the answers, and you and the rest of the people who made the post are becoming policemen.
I meant exactly what I said, especially in the context of what Laich It or Lump It said below. Everyone was explicitly encouraged to comment and leave their thoughts, hopefully for debate, I can’t square that with “telling you how things need to be”. Mostly what I’ve observed as “policing” has been cleaning up stuff like OT, top level responses in analysis and stuff like Cindy Crysby. If that makes me a part of the Gestapo, I’m sorry, but I’m going to keep going.
Now you’re not happy with some of the answers, and you and the rest of the people who made the post are becoming policemen.
I wanted to address this specifically because it stands out to me. Have I not engaged in discussion on the topic? Haven’t the others? It’s readily apparent that there are some people who are unhappy with our answers, which I might remind you have no binding power. If this opens up fresh debate, excellent; clearly we need some more.
Please explain this isn’t true, because I know I’m not the only one who feels this way, and if this isn’t really how it is, I’d love that, because it’s kind of sick.
Good enough? Here’s my take: you’re reading way more into both the authority of the authors of the original post and the response that I just made that is actually present.
Only YOU can prevent idiots from commenting!
by Knee high to a duck on Feb 9, 2010 7:01 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Not really good enough, because the authority of the authors is extending into other threads with them telling people how they want things. And frankly, new people can’t post because of how things are now. Since this fanpost, we’ve had more fighting about what goes where than actual fucking hockey discussion. Some people are too worried about who’s posting what and where, and whether or not they’re using proper punctuation and capitalization and we can’t fucking talk about hockey anymore unless we do it in the proper EPA context.
It’s a joke. I’m all for intelligent discourse, and I’m all for things being in their place, but I’m also all for more opinions and less strong arming. Team toughness? Yeah, it’s great, but not when it’s so much that it discourages people from doing things appropriately. One kind “Hey, this shouldn’t go here” is better than ten people jumping and saying “Hey, look, you’re doing this wrong.”
You guys have engaged in discussion on the topic, but routinely in other threads you’re shitting on people for violating your rules. You want rules? J.P. has a rules thread. He can update that anyway he likes.
You may not have binding power, but you’re tossing your weight around elsewhere as if you do.
Familiar Rapports: Bald Pollack, F&B, Gould Old Days.
Lobbies: Osala, Perreault, Erskine, Pothier, Neuvirth, Flash.
Fan of: Mean Lars Backstrom, Line Mashing, Cake.
Of note, there’s things from Chris Meets Alex’s “Lurkers Guide to Jumping Onto the Rink” that’s kind of being lumped in to my frustrations, but overall, this is where that stemmed from.
Familiar Rapports: Bald Pollack, F&B, Gould Old Days.
Lobbies: Osala, Perreault, Erskine, Pothier, Neuvirth, Flash.
Fan of: Mean Lars Backstrom, Line Mashing, Cake.
Some people are too worried about who’s posting what and where, and whether or not they’re using proper punctuation and capitalization and we can’t fucking talk about hockey anymore unless we do it in the proper EPA context … I’m also all for more opinions and less strong arming.
Anecdote about this: My girlfriend has been coming out to the viewing parties, is a big Caps fan, is becoming friends with a bunch of Rats/Rabbits, but is generally way too intimidated by the kind of conduct noted above to start posting. That’s a shame. Others have noted that they’ve started scaling their participation back because they feel like they aren’t intelligent or informed enough to contribute at high enough a level to be considered valuable by the community. Or they fear getting jumped on by an individual or group of individuals for having an opinion that differs from the consensus at the Rink. They are beat down under the guise of having poorly-formed opinions or lacking sufficient evidence to back up whatever they might be saying (“I like player A more than player B”).
Blah, it’s getting frustrating to watch.
My ability to post is only surpassed by my ability to pinch pennies.
and on the other hand, you have commenters like d’ohboy (who gets rec’d through the roof whenever he contributes) who admit they are not participating as much anymore because the comments are bogged down and derailed by non-hockey discussion.
by Natty Bumppo on Feb 9, 2010 7:25 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
So the answer is to strongarm everyone that disagrees? Has to be a better solution.
My ability to post is only surpassed by my ability to pinch pennies.
i don’t see a ton of examples of where people have strongarmed the nice girlfriend types around here. a reminder to keep something OT in the clips thread is just that…a reminder. 5 of them on one comment is way overboard, but a statement of fact shouldn’t be intimidating to people. it’s not like there are that many rules we’re asking people to keep straight around here.
by Natty Bumppo on Feb 9, 2010 7:44 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
You haven’t seen a ton of examples of my girlfriend getting strongarmed because I don’t believe in domestic abuse.
That’s a joke.
But f’real, you don’t see a lot of the “casual, but really passionate fan” type posters get strongarmed because they’re too intimidated to post in the first place.
My ability to post is only surpassed by my ability to pinch pennies.
That’s part of the reason I don’t really make any post of substance, because I seem to remember getting berated for my attempts earlier.
(On Mike Green) He’s urban, you northern folk wouldn’t understand!
okay seriously, please give an example. is it just the way people debate around here? i’ve often thought that this place is “full of lawyers,” which to me means, “full of people that just REALLY like to argue about stuff and never take offense.” challenged and berated are too very different things.
by Natty Bumppo on Feb 9, 2010 7:59 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Asking people for evidence of everything, especially statements like “I remember getting berated” gets really old really fast, and I think is part of the problem around here.
Yes, ask for evidence if somebody says “Sloan was responsible for that goal against.” I ask for restraint in situations where somebody is expressing a feeling or a perception.
My ability to post is only surpassed by my ability to pinch pennies.
Because it doesn’t matter if you or somebody else MEANT to berate her. It matters what she remembers, felt, and took away from the experience.
My ability to post is only surpassed by my ability to pinch pennies.
honestly, there’s no way to fix that. there are accusations being made and they don’t jive with what i’ve read during my time at this site.
by Natty Bumppo on Feb 9, 2010 8:10 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
You know what? Intent matters. If there was a failure of communication, that’s one thing, but you don’t get to say “I was offended so your point is irrelevant”. The content of the original post and the spirit in which it was offered matters. Any communication is a two-way street, so saying that what the person meant to convey doesn’t matter is totally disingenuous.
Only YOU can prevent idiots from commenting!
by Knee high to a duck on Feb 9, 2010 8:13 PM EST up reply actions
All I’m saying is that at this point in the game, asking somebody “show me where, a year ago, I berated you” is a cop-out.
My ability to post is only surpassed by my ability to pinch pennies.
and at the same time, saying “i felt berated a year ago” kind of ends the discussion otherwise. what else is there to say? that’s a strong accusation levied at the entire community here. if it’s true, then that’s terrible, and it’s an example of how we should all keep each other in check.
by Natty Bumppo on Feb 9, 2010 8:26 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
How is it any more of a cop-out than “well I just don’t talk hockey because someone hurt my feelings a year ago”?
Of all our iniquities ignorance may be the worst
by Killer_Carlson on Feb 9, 2010 9:03 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
A week of Japers' Rink Welcomes
[some of them trimmed down…]
First time blogger, apologize for any gaffes in protocol.
by VooDooChile
Nah, you’re fine, and welcome aboard! Nice avatar :)
by gotsparkly
…Anyway, I’m new to the board — glad to finally track down some fellow Caps fans.
by Dallas Caps Fan…And welcome to the Rink!
by jakeshapiro…Welcome Aboard!
by iced
thought I’d delurk for a minute and say thanks to JP, the rest of the writers, and you all for helping me better appreciate hockey these last couple years.
by Sam DC
Lurker out of the woodwork! Welcome! Pssst … before you de-lurk again, one word: Avatar.
by UnleashFurry
Plenty of us can; don’t feel ashamed. Everyone’s gotta learn somewhere. Welcome.
by CapitalCentre
Just wanted to echo Sam’s sentiments and say thanks for being a great resource for newer fans who want to educate themselves. I’m pretty much a hockey noob but I’ve definitely learned a lot in the months that I’ve been reading the Rink. I’ve been hesitant to jump in for fear of being labeled a "bandwagon fan" but seems like if one is clueful and not a jerk, it’s all good. See, I even have an avatar already!
And I made sure to cut the tags off the jersey my husband gave me for Christmas. (He’s been a Caps fan since at least the Jaromir Jagr days, do I get a little proximity fan cred for that?)
by mosaicist
welcome! And new ain’t the same thing as bandwagon. I think you’ve already proved yourself to be more interested in real hockey than any "bandwagon" fan
by Gould Old Days
The NHL should do a real investigation and if it is found that a Rangers fan was indeed the one responsible for using the laser, then the Rangers should be docked points from the standings. The NHL needs to send a clear message to the idiots that think that shining a laser at a players face is funny, then your team is going to get punished and your name is going to get released to the public.
by MadFlava76…Related note: Welcome. I trust you’ll pick up an avatar along with your pre-blizzard sundries today.
by Bald Pollack
Lurking Fail
I actually e-mailed this in because I didn’t know if my commenting privileges would be active in time for the game.
[Awesome dirty dozen poster]
Here’s a bigger one.
by Gene Parmesan
that’s awesome! And welcome!
by RedBirdie
Hahahahaha. And a rec for you. (plus the handle deserves another rec).
by sixsevenfiftysix
If this is your first post, be proud, as your first post will likely turn green.
by Whiter Mage
That may be the best 1st day post I’ve ever seen. Welcome aboard!
by CP2Devil
GP, awesome job all around. Plus love the avatar. Welcome aboard!
by cuqui
Rec’d for the picture and the sweet ass handle.
by Bald Pollack
I know you caps fans haven’t been hockey fans for very long, but KOVY is Alexei Kovalev, NOT Kovalchuk.
Oh and nice win streak. Wish the Pens had such an easy schedule as the caps do
by GhostWalker40
Well, well, well … look who walked in.
Welcome GhostWalker40. I love the masterful broad strokes you execute when it comes to painting portraits of Caps fans. Brilliant comments and insights coming from you … Genius. What can I say? I don’t know how to begin having intelligent conversations with you.
by UnleashFurry
I’ll be there with a certain autographed jersey winner.
by jordanDC
that is me!
AKA JordanDC’s gf
by beeky
hiiii! :)
“No Brooks Laich, no win. Know Brooks Laich, know win.”
by kellobellow
Welcome!
by CapitalCentre
Hey!! Lucky!
by Ovechwin
+ like, a lot….
by Evel Knuble
welcome.
by Natty Bumppo
Nice username.
by jordanDC
Danke shoen.
Happy to be here
Looking forward to jumping eleventy billion dead penguins in my super-bad rocket-powered zamboni on Sunday….
by Evel Knuble
Seems to me we’re doing OK on being welcoming.
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Feb 9, 2010 10:49 PM EST up reply actions 6 recs
I agree with the exception that my welcome to GhostWalker40 was pretty much insincere sincerity to an actual Pens troll I’ve had the “privilege” to have a discussion with.
"Where can you go from there? Where? ... Nowhere. Exactly. What we do is, if we need that extra push over the cliff, you know what we do?"
GW40 stands out as the only person in gouldie’s block quote with no interest to talk hockey. there are also caps fans that come by with no interest in talking hockey, or with express interest at calling names or starting flame wars.
by Natty Bumppo on Feb 9, 2010 11:09 PM EST up reply actions
And hilariously well played.
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Feb 9, 2010 11:10 PM EST up reply actions
I think you missed his point entirely. There are people who want to talk hockey, and we can’t because of this correctional/elitist/how can you think positive of Tyler Sloan? mindset. I want hockey discussion, but there’s a certain aura of spontaneous discussion that can lead us off the path of the thread. When that happens, I’m all for a new thread at this point, but his point looked like he was saying his girlfriend can’t talk hockey.
Familiar Rapports: Bald Pollack, F&B, Gould Old Days.
Lobbies: Osala, Perreault, Erskine, Pothier, Neuvirth, Flash.
Fan of: Mean Lars Backstrom, Line Mashing, Cake.
see, this is what i don’t get: if you disagree with the group think that tyler sloan is an AHL player, that’s great…but don’t cry victim without defending your point, which is what i think people were taking umbrage at. i’d LOVE to see more opinions on here, because i think the volume of comments from a guy like F&B (together with his perspective and insight) can really intimidate people from challenging him. i’d just like to see both sides defending their points.
by Natty Bumppo on Feb 9, 2010 7:52 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
It’s a tonal thing. Some folks post in a way that’s a challenge. “I dare you to come back at me.” I hate it.
My ability to post is only surpassed by my ability to pinch pennies.
I’ve always been considered an asshole for about as long as I can remember. That’s just my style. But I’d really feel blue if I didn’t think you were going to forgive me.
Seriously though, it’s a hockey blog. We discuss the Caps and other hockey stuff. If being challenged is too much for you someone then I’m sorry. I’m not going to spend an hour editing my damn comments to try to soften the blow.
Killer_Carlson and Steckel Me Elmo are like brothers to me. And when I say brothers I don't mean like actual brothers. I mean it like how black people use it, which is more meaningful, I think.
You don’t have to. Natty just said “I’d love to see more opinions on here” and I suggested why maybe he doesn’t.
My ability to post is only surpassed by my ability to pinch pennies.
you’re right, i’m not interested in purely people’s opinions as much as i’m interested in the defenses of their opinions (referring back to my very first comment on this fanpost). but “posting in a way that’s a challenge” does not equate to “not wanting to hear someone’s opinion.” what am i missing?
A lot of that makes sense, and a lot of my post is hypothetical there. I do agree with the assessment of F&B, but I’m not going to back down from him when he says “God, Tom Poti sucks”. It’s not really any different from Jeff Schultz Sucks comments, but we don’t call him out, because for some reason, whether some of us think he’s snarking, or some of us think he’s legitimately feeling that way, he’s F&B, and obviously he knows the rules. Then people make similar posts about other players, and they don’t have the rapport with the rink that F&B has, and let’s say for instance, it’s Schultz. That can make a lot of people upset.
I’m all for people not calling out victim. I know how that feels, after trying to defend Clark, Kolzig, and Flash for a while, and yeah, I learned how to bring more to the table than “Your stats aren’t what I see.”
I’d prefer a “Hey, look, back up what you’re saying, because maybe your point is valid” than a “Look, you’re wrong, and you can’t back it up.” I know some people, like F&B himself do this. He’s usually extremely good about saying “Please present me more evidence” even when I make a crazy radical claim like you can get hurt from a check more often than from a fight.
I think a lot of the issue here is in delivery, not in what’s being said.
Familiar Rapports: Bald Pollack, F&B, Gould Old Days.
Lobbies: Osala, Perreault, Erskine, Pothier, Neuvirth, Flash.
Fan of: Mean Lars Backstrom, Line Mashing, Cake.
Natty is 100% on target in my mind. Knee as well.
Sorry, but all opinions are not equal in my mind. Back your opinions up with reason/logic/facts. Heck, if your opinion is I like Tyler Sloan because I met him than just say that. But, don’t think that someone isn’t going to disagree with you if you just throw your opinion out there without reasoning, or at the very least some sort of explanation.
Even though I’ve been watching hockey for 30 years I learn something new every day about the game I have had some of my opinions on issues/players solidified by coming to JR and have had some of my opinions changed as well.
I think I’m pretty civil and I certainly apologize when I misinterpret what others say or do a poor job of conveying my thoughts. However, if people’s feelings get bruised by me giving my unvarnished opinions than I don’t know what to say. Unless JP has issues with my tone, as its his place, I don’t plan on changing how I approach the Rink.
"You ever use smelling salts, every time you type a bad blog?" Brooks Laich
by Carl Putnam on Feb 9, 2010 8:11 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Sorry, but all opinions are not equal in my mind. Back your opinions up with reason/logic/facts. Heck, if your opinion is I like Tyler Sloan because I met him than just say that. But, don’t think that someone isn’t going to disagree with you if you just throw your opinion out there without reasoning, or at the very least some sort of explanation.
I’m completely fine with this. I’m trying to say that a lot of people don’t know this, and get smacked with “Get out, TS89 sucks” or “Present some facts.” At that point, I don’t have “I grew up with is cousin” as a fact, and in fact that seems lame after being told to present stats.
Familiar Rapports: Bald Pollack, F&B, Gould Old Days.
Lobbies: Osala, Perreault, Erskine, Pothier, Neuvirth, Flash.
Fan of: Mean Lars Backstrom, Line Mashing, Cake.
I havecertainly seen some sarcasm used and “please present facts” statements as I would expect to. I’ve never seen anyone be told to get out.
How would you like me to appraoch it when someone makes a comment that may be ill informed? Give me an example how you think it should be handled.
"You ever use smelling salts, every time you type a bad blog?" Brooks Laich
I have above, and I’m all for sarcasm, once the poster realizes, hey, there’s sarcasm at this blog, or maybe that should be part of the sign up expectations.
It’s honestly that the infighting and this behavior is going to my head in ways that I don’t want it to, and I fear we’re driving potential good posters off.
Familiar Rapports: Bald Pollack, F&B, Gould Old Days.
Lobbies: Osala, Perreault, Erskine, Pothier, Neuvirth, Flash.
Fan of: Mean Lars Backstrom, Line Mashing, Cake.
Sorry, but that is part of the learning curve. It’s just like when you are new to anything. It’s also why I think lurking for a few weeks before joining is what most people should do. It’s like going to a new job/school. You spend a week or two observing before you jump into the fray.
I’ve made several suggestions, as have others, on how we might increase newbies transitions into the blog and the comments section.
However, if we aren’t going to engage in hockey discussions along with a little fun that others might not understand right away then what is the point.
It seems like you want to have your cake and eat it to.
"You ever use smelling salts, every time you type a bad blog?" Brooks Laich
I think you’ve missed the fact that I post a lot on hockey threads. I’d argue I talk more about hockey than anything.
And yeah, you spend a week or two observing before jumping in, but even then it’s still easy to put your foot in your mouth, because you’re new (Unless for some reason, you’re fFonzi or some shit).
Familiar Rapports: Bald Pollack, F&B, Gould Old Days.
Lobbies: Osala, Perreault, Erskine, Pothier, Neuvirth, Flash.
Fan of: Mean Lars Backstrom, Line Mashing, Cake.
I don’t think I intimated that either of you don’t post about hockey. I enjoy reading what both of you have to say most of the time, even some of the non-hockey stuff. I’m responding to the comments about how we are scaring potential new members.
"You ever use smelling salts, every time you type a bad blog?" Brooks Laich
OK.
I see more what you mean now.
No, I’m not saying we throw out the inside jokes. They’re fine. I’m just trying to throw out some of the hazing. The only time I want to see “Back button’s to the top left corner” is when someone’s blatantly spitting in someone’s face (This weekend had one time that I thought it was appropriate, and several “I think you’re going too far”s). I’m ok with the “I’d suggest you get an avatar”. The best intro I’ve seen is when someone without an avatar posted something their first time, and someone replied “Hey, look, I’d suggest giving an avatar, and here’s a bunch of links about how things work around here”. They got an employee handbook, so to speak. Some people reach out and get it early, and those should be applauded. Some don’t and need it given to them before we fire them. And then others just ignore it.
Familiar Rapports: Bald Pollack, F&B, Gould Old Days.
Lobbies: Osala, Perreault, Erskine, Pothier, Neuvirth, Flash.
Fan of: Mean Lars Backstrom, Line Mashing, Cake.
I was trying to get at that when I originally replied to the original post days ago. The newbies do need an instruction manual to help them navigate at first. After that they gotta mostly learn on their own. Sometimes that means making a mistake or two.
"You ever use smelling salts, every time you type a bad blog?" Brooks Laich
Fair enough. Just when it comes to genuine noobs, we can be less head smack and more “Here you go”. That’s all I’ve meant.
Familiar Rapports: Bald Pollack, F&B, Gould Old Days.
Lobbies: Osala, Perreault, Erskine, Pothier, Neuvirth, Flash.
Fan of: Mean Lars Backstrom, Line Mashing, Cake.
Head smacking, it’s the Western District way.
Killer_Carlson and Steckel Me Elmo are like brothers to me. And when I say brothers I don't mean like actual brothers. I mean it like how black people use it, which is more meaningful, I think.
by Rob Parker on Feb 9, 2010 8:56 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
I do agree with the assessment of F&B, but I’m not going to back down from him when he says "God, Tom Poti sucks"
I don’t like Tom Poti. I make no bones about it. I generally give credit when he plays well, as he has of late, but I’ll always point out his mistakes. I never tell Jordan not to like Poti, I just tease him for liking him. Jordan makes enough off-color jokes and demonstrates his sense of humor enough that I assume he can take it.
Even with you WM, I tease you about liking Erskine, and I tell you how I feel, but when it comes down to it I never said “you shouldn’t like Erskine” because as has been stated in this current dust up, sometimes it comes down to irrational fan emotions. That’s fine, I just want people to put those biases out front. If you just like a guy, you just like a guy. I’ll always like Komisarek, and I’ve said as much here. When he stinks, like this year, I feel for him and root for him, but I’m not going to blow smoke and tell you all that he deserved to be an All Star last year. When you say you like a guy, that’s one thing, but when you argue roster decisions it should be rooted in something deeper than fan/emotional attachments or you don’t like a guy’s blank stare.
Killer_Carlson and Steckel Me Elmo are like brothers to me. And when I say brothers I don't mean like actual brothers. I mean it like how black people use it, which is more meaningful, I think.
by Rob Parker on Feb 9, 2010 8:19 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Oh, I know completely, and I’m not trying to come off that way. I’m just saying that sometimes, it comes off that we sound like that to people who are green to the blog.
Familiar Rapports: Bald Pollack, F&B, Gould Old Days.
Lobbies: Osala, Perreault, Erskine, Pothier, Neuvirth, Flash.
Fan of: Mean Lars Backstrom, Line Mashing, Cake.
That stuff is exactly why I signed up. This place was different than the Caps boards or CI.
"You ever use smelling salts, every time you type a bad blog?" Brooks Laich
by Carl Putnam on Feb 9, 2010 8:22 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
i’d been waiting to comment on this one, WM, because there was a lot to get to (and a lot i agree with).
it’s tough also because most of us have seen F&B defend his favorite players 3 or 4 times or take down his least favorite players 3 or 4 times, armed with plenty of ammunition. i think we’d all benefit from limiting the throwaway comments, especially the most seasoned commenters. maybe a link back to a previous post or a previous comment? i’ve noticed DMG does a really outstanding job at either using new data or linking to old posts whenever he encounters a schultz hater. as more and more crop up, it becomes really difficult engaging in that same conversation, though.
i think we also cling a little hard to our inside jokes, and even if it’s subliminal, we are trying to insulate ourselves from CI. these things i cop to. but the accusations of brusk dismissals and berating of commenters attempting to actually “talk hockey” doesn’t really ring true to me (again, here i’m bringing in some of jordan’s and ovechwin’s comments). quite the opposite, it seems that when someone comes in bashing schultz, there’s always a new commenter stepping up to the plate to re-make the sgt schultz defense. which brings us closer together in a way.
and i just imagined not being accustomed to seeing that kind of thing.
by Natty Bumppo on Feb 9, 2010 8:29 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Honestly, I think a lot of throwaway comments happen because we see that on PPP a ton, and I feel our discussion is on a significantly higher level than how they talk. I’d much rather talk about Schultz’s corsi rating than CAPS MAN logos.
F&B does a really good job of being a poster. He’s our Ovechkin. But it’s easy to take the wrong way.
Different people come to this blog for different reasons. The snark, the sarcasm, the high level discussion, or the camaraderie. And no, we’re not CI. But I don’t want to come off holier than though either.
Familiar Rapports: Bald Pollack, F&B, Gould Old Days.
Lobbies: Osala, Perreault, Erskine, Pothier, Neuvirth, Flash.
Fan of: Mean Lars Backstrom, Line Mashing, Cake.
Different people come to this blog for different reasons. The snark, the sarcasm, the high level discussion, or the camaraderie. And no, we’re not CI. But I don’t want to come off holier than though either.
This. Everyone brings something to the table, and whether it stats or horrible attempts at humor, I can accept that, I wish everyone else could too.
(On Mike Green) He’s urban, you northern folk wouldn’t understand!
I generally don’t make my opinions known because so often in the past I was berated for them.
(On Mike Green) He’s urban, you northern folk wouldn’t understand!
I’d like to see more opinions from you. I’d welcome that.
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Feb 9, 2010 9:53 PM EST up reply actions
You guys have engaged in discussion on the topic, but routinely in other threads you’re shitting on people for violating your rules. You want rules? J.P. has a rules thread. He can update that anyway he likes.
so you’re saying as a community we can’t come together and agree on general rules of civility? or agree to maintain hockey discussion at a hockey blog? that we have to wait for JP to tell us not to call sidney crosby “cindy crysby?” in order to keep this place open to new and original opinions (in order to keep this an open blog), i do think it’s the long-time readers that have to step up to the plate.
by Natty Bumppo on Feb 9, 2010 7:22 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
That’s not at all it. I’m saying it doesn’t take 30 posts about it to make it stop. One kind note to each new poster, to say “Hey, we try to avoid that” other than ten people saying “We don’t do things that way.”
One of these comes off as snobby, jerkish, and prude. The other comes off as “Oh, they have rules, and I’d better follow them.”
The people who are going to piss on them are going to do it either way, and the people who made an honest mistake who are willing to follow the rules will just feel shit on, and he/she’ll get agitated from the get-go.
That’s what I have a problem with.
Familiar Rapports: Bald Pollack, F&B, Gould Old Days.
Lobbies: Osala, Perreault, Erskine, Pothier, Neuvirth, Flash.
Fan of: Mean Lars Backstrom, Line Mashing, Cake.
Unless there was a rash of this kind of stuff over the weekend when I wasn’t around, I haven’t seen this kind of berating going on. In fact, I see a hell of a lot more of the single “this post should go in this thread/be a fanshot, etc” than I see of ten people coming off as snobby jerks. The biggest dust-up that I can remember recently was in the clips post last week and it involved the appropriateness of non-hockey chatting from long time posters.
So again, unless I missed a lot over the weekend I just don’t see new posters getting berated for not following common etiquette, and I read almost everything on this site.
Of all our iniquities ignorance may be the worst
by Killer_Carlson on Feb 9, 2010 8:27 PM EST up reply actions
It was more over the weekend. There’s been a fluctuation of it, as well as I think a fluctuation of new members. Pens game does that, I suppose.
Familiar Rapports: Bald Pollack, F&B, Gould Old Days.
Lobbies: Osala, Perreault, Erskine, Pothier, Neuvirth, Flash.
Fan of: Mean Lars Backstrom, Line Mashing, Cake.
Not really good enough, because the authority of the authors is extending into other threads with them telling people how they want things. And frankly, new people can’t post because of how things are now. Since this fanpost, we’ve had more fighting about what goes where than actual fucking hockey discussion. Some people are too worried about who’s posting what and where, and whether or not they’re using proper punctuation and capitalization and we can’t fucking talk about hockey anymore unless we do it in the proper EPA context
That’s funny, a lot of what I see talked about is Doritos and Old Bay and why VA is better than MD or vice-versa. The fighting about what goes where is usually one or two posts and there’s been a lot more done about monikers. It’s been made abundantly clear in prior comments from JP, Becca and crew that you should be posting things related to the topic of the top-level post in that post. If it’s OT, it goes in Caps Clips or into an OT thread. I’m really not sure what’s so threatening about that.
For someone that capitalizes and punctuates as well as you do and have done in the past, I’m not sure where the concern there is. Surely you don’t want to read comments rife with typos and inconsistent capitalization? It’s not the be all and end all of the content of a post, but you’re taking a huge step backwards in clarity and quality if your readers have to stop and figure out what the fuck you meant to type every other sentence.
It’s a joke. I’m all for intelligent discourse, and I’m all for things being in their place, but I’m also all for more opinions and less strong arming. Team toughness? Yeah, it’s great, but not when it’s so much that it discourages people from doing things appropriately. One kind "Hey, this shouldn’t go here" is better than ten people jumping and saying "Hey, look, you’re doing this wrong."
What’s a joke? Expound. I wrote my section of this in absolute seriousness.
More opinions is exactly what I want to encourage. There is, however, a distinction between more opinions and having to support those opinions with evidence. If I see weak shit, I’m calling it.
It’s absolutely better to have one kind callout than 10 YOU’RE DOING IT WRONG!! posts and that’s not what team toughness is about. Team toughness is about anyone that sees it stepping up, not just an appointed enforcer. Have there been overreactions (like in today’s Clips?)? For sure and certain, but the place to address it is there, then someplace like here, instead of letting it fester. That’d be a prime example of team toughness – “Hey guys, no need to jump down his throat all at once”. Step up to the plate if you feel strongly about it.
You guys have engaged in discussion on the topic, but routinely in other threads you’re shitting on people for violating your rules. You want rules? J.P. has a rules thread. He can update that anyway he likes.
Please give me an example of me shitting on someone for violating “my” rules. Please. Just one. I call people on Crysby, Shittsburgh and the like, I call weak arguments or unsupported statements out, I’ll give a nudge to post something in the Clips, but I don’t shit on people. I think it’s abundantly (via admin comments) clear that those behaviors aren’t welcomed.
Only YOU can prevent idiots from commenting!
by Knee high to a duck on Feb 9, 2010 7:27 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
It’s been made abundantly clear in prior comments from JP, Becca and crew that you should be posting things related to the topic of the top-level post in that post. If it’s OT, it goes in Caps Clips or into an OT thread
Unless I’m remembering incorrectly those posts were in the clips and still got bitched about.
(On Mike Green) He’s urban, you northern folk wouldn’t understand!
Not all of them are. For example, we end up with a 150 post sidebar in a recap that started with a different game on TV.
The Clips have been labeled off-topic in the past. Personally, I’d rather talk hockey in them and this is a hockey website, but there’s room for OT stuff. I want to adjust the balance, but I can’t control that.
Only YOU can prevent idiots from commenting!
by Knee high to a duck on Feb 9, 2010 7:32 PM EST up reply actions
But what did that 150 comment tangent hurt exactly? How does it effect you in a negative way? I’ll go out on a limb and say all the pretentious-elitist talk hurts the blog much more than talking about a hockey game under the incorrect thread.
(On Mike Green) He’s urban, you northern folk wouldn’t understand!
It’s not really tangential, except in the most abstract sense that it’s also related to hockey.
Which pretentious-elitist talk are you referring to? If it’s asking people to support their argument, no dice.
You’re worried about crowding out other people with opinions? 150 posts on a non-topical subject gets distracting and it absolutely does crowd out other people’s thoughts on the game. You cannot sit there and say that does justice to the work that went into writing that recap. So that’s the harm it does and yes, I have a problem with that. If that makes me pretentious and elitist, then so be it.
Only YOU can prevent idiots from commenting!
by Knee high to a duck on Feb 9, 2010 8:11 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
This is more of a global thought than a reply to the above, but...
Honestly, we’re at the point where different people want different things. F&B, Knee High, many others want a place to come with images, well thought out analysis, and tons of legitimately awesome breakdowns. And that’s awesome. The rest of us, though, feel like this site has grown into something more than that, and frankly, the bigger issue in my opinion is a lack of a forum style breakdown, and that’s just not something SBNation will allow for. If there was a “Japers’ Rink Forums” we could flock there for our fandom/ot discussion, and then have this place for ONLY hockey chat. Maybe that’s the way to go. But until we have something like that in place, we’re going to have two or more sides pulling to what they like the best.
Familiar Rapports: Bald Pollack, F&B, Gould Old Days.
Lobbies: Osala, Perreault, Erskine, Pothier, Neuvirth, Flash.
Fan of: Mean Lars Backstrom, Line Mashing, Cake.
by Whiter Mage on Feb 9, 2010 8:20 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Schism?
Kidding aside, I think you just hit the nail on the head observation wise and concisely put what I was trying to say very effectively. Count me in the camp of F&B, Knee High if you will … but that’s not to say I don’t appreciate the ‘social’ aspect and community we have here. I do, to a degree. The same can be said of F&B and Knee High. Why else would they think it worth their while to participate (F&B, Knee High, etc) let alone organize (F&B) the inaugural Japers’ Rink pick-up game?
"Where can you go from there? Where? ... Nowhere. Exactly. What we do is, if we need that extra push over the cliff, you know what we do?"
I’m not against talking hockey, I’m against the tone that I got from this post, maybe it was just my turn to take things personally, but it came off as combative.
(On Mike Green) He’s urban, you northern folk wouldn’t understand!
I know you’re not against hockey, Ovechwin. I know we’ve had our share of banter and snark on off-topic comments, threads, etc. Hell, look at my SBN handle.
Appreciate you putting it directly, but I didn’t mean for my post (which ever one it was) that came off as combative. That was not my intent and quite frankly, if you saw my body language or heard the tone of voice if I were speaking to you I think you’d think differently.
Ah … love the internet. Another degree of separation added to human interaction. In all seriousness, How did I come across as combative? Please tell me b/c I’m blind to what you’re referencing and it was evident to me what you’re referring to.
"Where can you go from there? Where? ... Nowhere. Exactly. What we do is, if we need that extra push over the cliff, you know what we do?"
Not so much a schism.
I think maybe Something Awful has it right. They have their main site, and then pretty much global forums. On the main sites, there’s no comments, but here we could easily have them if we kept them on track. We could then have our own Caps fans only forums, and it’d be for whatever people wanted to talk about.
I’m not saying this is how we should do it, I’m just tossing out an idea I’ve been mulling.
Familiar Rapports: Bald Pollack, F&B, Gould Old Days.
Lobbies: Osala, Perreault, Erskine, Pothier, Neuvirth, Flash.
Fan of: Mean Lars Backstrom, Line Mashing, Cake.
Something Awful
What’s that? Can you provide a link?
"Where can you go from there? Where? ... Nowhere. Exactly. What we do is, if we need that extra push over the cliff, you know what we do?"
somethingawful.com
But you can’t really see the forums, as you need to pay to access (Obviously, we wouldn’t do that). Basically, you have all of your legit hardcore content at one place, and all of your chatty shit somewhere else.
Familiar Rapports: Bald Pollack, F&B, Gould Old Days.
Lobbies: Osala, Perreault, Erskine, Pothier, Neuvirth, Flash.
Fan of: Mean Lars Backstrom, Line Mashing, Cake.
Honestly, we’re at the point where different people want different things.
This is the key point, and it was the reason for this thread in the first place. Seems to me that some folks didn’t feel comfortable posting their preferences in the first place, and are just getting to that now. And I’m glad, because it’s been eye-opening.
Look, this place has gotten bigger than any one person’s view of it. It’s too many things to too many people for any one vision to hold. Above the “comments” line it belongs to the primary contributors, but below that line and along the right side strip, it belongs to us. All of us. And I think that was the main point we were trying to make in the roundtable. Literally, we just want everyone to act like they own the place.
What we’re fighting here is chaos, is entropy. If we didn’t try to decide what we want this place to be; if we didn’t work hard to make it that, then it would just devolve into CI or Puck Daddy comment areas. From my perspective, another week where the place doesn’t get worse is a victory. Sorry to get melodramatic, but that’s how I see it.
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Feb 9, 2010 10:57 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
I didn’t mean this to come off quite so negative. I mean, every day people do make the effort to maintain our standards here. All I’m really saying is that we have to keep that up. It hasn’t really been a problem yet.
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Feb 10, 2010 12:43 AM EST up reply actions
"I want the truth!" ... "You can't handle the truth!"
But what did that 150 comment tangent hurt exactly? How does it effect you in a negative way?
My limited amount of time. It takes a while for me to wade through topics I found irrelevant to what I was interested in. I mean this in the sincerest way and am calling it as I see it from my lens based on my experience thus far here at Japers’ Rink. I have a regular working schedule with a tremendous amount of responsibilities, and efficiency ends up being my MO if I want to get the daily fix of relevant topics and comments I need from Japers’ Rink. The Washington Post, OFB, ESPN, TSN, etc didn’t cut it for me and thus Japers’ Rink became my first stop for what I was looking for. Caps’ ice hockey news, discussions, comments, observations and tidbits. The social aspect is the icing on the cake. That’s not to say ‘icing’ is healthy for me, especially when not devoured in moderation.
As is, more often than not, I spend way too much time on Japers’ Rink (fairly or unfairly) b/c of tangent threads and comments. Inconvenience? Absolutely. At least for someone who has so much invested in his profession and finds that, along with his job, it’s pretty darn close to what some may label a calling or a passion. As much as I love ice hockey, the Caps and consider it my first true love growing up, I simply I care too much about what I do for a living. That’s just my situation and I’m keenly aware, not all of the commentariat here are in my position.
I know there’s the ‘Z’ and ‘Shift A’ move in the repertoire of my skill set, but it still seems inefficient in that either I 1) have to tap Z so fast … almost as fast as if I’m trying to hit the button (was it A or B) rapidly enough to will “Mac” to get up after being knocked down by King Hippo … in order to catch up to the next relevant thread and subsequent comments or 2) I go the ‘Shift A’ route and run the risk of skipping through many comments/threads that I might’ve found relevant. Both lead to different degrees of frustration for me depending on several factors (pressed for time, the amount of tangent threads/comments, my level of patience for the inconvenience.) That’s not to say I enjoy the occasional ‘social’ interaction and ‘social networking’ qualities of the community we have here at Japers’ Rink. The level of wit shown in the various banter (GDTs, Clips, OT discussions) and my participation in that as well as the different social gatherings (the innaugural pick-up game, viewing parties, pre-game brunch in Chinatown, etc) outside of the internet are testaments to that enjoyment. It’s great when it’s a snowy day like yesterday, a Saturday/Sunday morning, or when have some down time. When I’ve got my job to do and time is valuable, it’s a bit aggravating.
Many posts above (around the 50th comment or so) I was wondering if there was a way threads could be collapsible comment generated sub-threads could be an option. For the record, I emailed support@sbnation.com and I hope it’s something others consider doing as well. I don’t know if this is the solution everyone is looking for, but I’m inclined to think it’s a tool that could be a big aid for me.
My two cents and change for what it’s worth. I suppose this is the closest I’ve come to addressing the following:
What is Japers’ Rink, fundamentally?
What enhances or detracts from your experience on the site?
What would you like The Rink to be?
How do we get there from here?
"Where can you go from there? Where? ... Nowhere. Exactly. What we do is, if we need that extra push over the cliff, you know what we do?"
by Christoph J on Feb 9, 2010 8:50 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Thanks a ton – that’s a lot of good stuff. I enjoy what you and pretty much anyone brings to the table. I am pretty much getting to the point where I think we need Chatty Cathy OT threads (which can include anything including Caps hockey) to make that more a convenience to those working. I do think we need some OT threads, though, because frankly, not all of us have the same schedule. Some of us spend more time here than is healthy, and I don’t think that’s necessarily bad. Maybe we should just redirect it to a Caps Clips, and an OT. You’ve answered honestly – that helps.
Familiar Rapports: Bald Pollack, F&B, Gould Old Days.
Lobbies: Osala, Perreault, Erskine, Pothier, Neuvirth, Flash.
Fan of: Mean Lars Backstrom, Line Mashing, Cake.
by Whiter Mage on Feb 9, 2010 9:00 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I agree. As a high school junior now I simply have no time to leaf through thousands of comments every day when I get back from school, even though I’d like too, especially Game Recaps. Having off topic conversations is really annoying to go through in the time I do have, but then again, they almost always stem from hockey-related discussion, which makes it tough to control. I don’t really know if there’s a way around this aside from controlling comment volume somehow.
Ovechkin = Green Backs
by red army line on Feb 10, 2010 11:19 AM EST up reply actions
Urggh … grammar, preview, and edit FAIL.
"Where can you go from there? Where? ... Nowhere. Exactly. What we do is, if we need that extra push over the cliff, you know what we do?"
I should add to that … ADD, facebook, and cooking some asado … burnt to perfection. And the ADD, I blame on my inherent creativity. Everything and anything (well with the exception of somethings) interest me all at once.
"Where can you go from there? Where? ... Nowhere. Exactly. What we do is, if we need that extra push over the cliff, you know what we do?"
I think we’re a lot closer on most of these issues than you think. I think the major issue a lot of us have is the way to address it, which we’re talking about now.
Familiar Rapports: Bald Pollack, F&B, Gould Old Days.
Lobbies: Osala, Perreault, Erskine, Pothier, Neuvirth, Flash.
Fan of: Mean Lars Backstrom, Line Mashing, Cake.
Not all of them are. For example, we end up with a 150 post sidebar in a recap that started with a different game on TV.
I’ll be honest, that really pissed me off and I was vocal about it at the time. We have an OT thread specifically for that reason. Folks tried to mention that gently and were just ignored. I thought that was really disrespectful of becca who wrote the recap, and of folks who wanted to discuss the actual subject of that thread.
But there’s a balance to be struck here. My favorite recap ever is the famous Brooks Laich bubbles thread. It doesn’t get much more off topic than that. But it was brilliant and funny and fun, and until that thread I think the rabbits were reluctant to identify themselves as female. I’d like to think the place has gotten a lot more friendly and gender-neutral as a result.
My bottom line is that I think there’s an appropriate place for any discussion anyone wants to have (as long as it’s civil). I don’t have a problem with the Clips being wide open, since we don’t currently have chatty cathys. But OT hockey should go to the OT hockey thread. Discussion under an analysis post should stay on-topic.
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Feb 9, 2010 11:09 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Another thing to consider, I’m not sure how relevant it is, is that the Bubbles thread happened late at night, after the Caps Clips conversation had been had all day. It didn’t clutter the thread immediately off the bat. I know that made it more palatable for me. And, as always, humor makes it go down easier.
Killer_Carlson and Steckel Me Elmo are like brothers to me. And when I say brothers I don't mean like actual brothers. I mean it like how black people use it, which is more meaningful, I think.
You’re shitting on me for talking old bay and MD vs VA right now.
It’s absolutely better to have one kind callout than 10 YOU’RE DOING IT WRONG!! posts and that’s not what team toughness is about. Team toughness is about anyone that sees it stepping up, not just an appointed enforcer.
One kind word is better than a bunch of people jumping on you. I don’t understand your point. What’s a joke is that we’re strong arming people into things.
There is, however, a distinction between more opinions and having to support those opinions with evidence. If I see weak shit, I’m calling it.
Here’s where I’m the most frustrated. Some people are fans of players because of more than what they contribute. Some have personal reasons. Maybe the player wears their favorite number. Maybe they contribute off the ice. Maybe they’ve met them. Or maybe they just like anyone who suits up in Red, White, and Blue. Granted, someone can say “I like Poti, he’s the best” and not be able to back it up, and yeah, jump on that. But if someone says “I like Poti”, so what?
Familiar Rapports: Bald Pollack, F&B, Gould Old Days.
Lobbies: Osala, Perreault, Erskine, Pothier, Neuvirth, Flash.
Fan of: Mean Lars Backstrom, Line Mashing, Cake.
You’re shitting on me for talking old bay and MD vs VA right now.
Buddy, if it were only you it wouldn’t be an issue. Those were the two ones that came readily to mind because they were recent. If that came off as a personal attack, I’m sorry.
Here’s where I’m the most frustrated. Some people are fans of players because of more than what they contribute. Some have personal reasons. Maybe the player wears their favorite number. Maybe they contribute off the ice. Maybe they’ve met them. Or maybe they just like anyone who suits up in Red, White, and Blue. Granted, someone can say "I like Poti, he’s the best" and not be able to back it up, and yeah, jump on that. But if someone says "I like Poti", so what?
That is a distinction that I try to make. The Jeff Schultz thing from seasons past is what was coming to mind when I wrote that, or things like “Crosby sucks!!!11”
Only YOU can prevent idiots from commenting!
by Knee high to a duck on Feb 9, 2010 7:42 PM EST up reply actions
I’m not your buddy, friend.
But seriously, we’ve always been under the impression Caps Clips was meant for open thread discussion. Now, I’ve talked to F&B in that very thread about how if we start getting closer to the right side of the page, we take it to a chatty cathy thread. I’m fine with non-hockey discussion on the blog, as long as if it’s somewhere it shouldn’t be, we move it to an OT thread. And with the community we have, where a lot of us have actually met, I don’t think it would be that big of a deal to have a “Do you like old bay” thread in the side bar. And the good fan posts that are hockey related would quickly replace it because they get rec’d, and they go to the recommended fanpost bar.
I just worry about people jumping on others for liking a player. Sometimes fandom is irrational. Hell, I supported a team after they got to the finals, then traded for a rival team’s player who never panned out, and then the team traded away it’s core, then went through nearly a decade of slop. Then my favorite player walked away, and people bashed him on this very blog for being selfish for taking his nameplate. Yeah, the team sucked, and yeah, Kolzig handled things wrong, but I still liked him, for the same reason that even though Hunter was a dirty schmuck, I liked him. The reason? They were just my favorites.
Familiar Rapports: Bald Pollack, F&B, Gould Old Days.
Lobbies: Osala, Perreault, Erskine, Pothier, Neuvirth, Flash.
Fan of: Mean Lars Backstrom, Line Mashing, Cake.
I’m not your friend, pal.
I don’t think your impression of Caps Clips is incorrect, but I’ll give you a personal ancedote – I’ve been skipping the comments in them more often than not because it’s not worth the time to skip through all the other comments that aren’t related. They’re fun while they happen and God knows I’ve contributed to them in the past, but I’m less likely to post now that I was, say, 5 months ago.
Jumping on someone for having a personal like for a player is weak sauce. I’ll razz people I think I have a rapport with for stuff like that, but it’s always intended in jest. I hope when other people do it that it’s the same way.
My favorite Cap until Ovie showed up was Michael Pivonka. Why? Because my name is Michael and that mattered to me when I started following the Caps. He showed up in the Bethesda Softworks “Wayne Gretzky Hockey III” for IBM compatible machines and I’ve been a fan ever since. I’m totally with you on that.
Here’s another irrationality from me: Ryan Getzlaf bothers me because I want to punch him in the face. He’s just got one of those faces and styles that annoys the hell out of me. He’s a great player, but I just hate the guy.
Only YOU can prevent idiots from commenting!
by Knee high to a duck on Feb 9, 2010 8:03 PM EST up reply actions
Fuck you, KHtaD
Pivonka is my favorite player ever and I’ve often expounded on how much Getzlaf’s face makes me want to shit in his hat. Get your own likes and dislikes.
My ability to post is only surpassed by my ability to pinch pennies.
I think we’re far enough apart on the OT stuff not to worry about it.
Only YOU can prevent idiots from commenting!
by Knee high to a duck on Feb 9, 2010 8:15 PM EST up reply actions
Or you could just dismiss me as I try to lighten the mood, that works too.
My ability to post is only surpassed by my ability to pinch pennies.
It was dry humor — doesn’t come across very well I guess.
Only YOU can prevent idiots from commenting!
by Knee high to a duck on Feb 9, 2010 8:19 PM EST up reply actions
I think it’s hard to read through 300+ comments regardless of if they’re about hockey or strawberries, with how it’s completely out of time in the presentation. It’s just tough to do. I skip a ton of things if the comments get above 100, because I know either the conversation is dead, or it’ll be hard to get into.
Familiar Rapports: Bald Pollack, F&B, Gould Old Days.
Lobbies: Osala, Perreault, Erskine, Pothier, Neuvirth, Flash.
Fan of: Mean Lars Backstrom, Line Mashing, Cake.
One kind "Hey, this shouldn’t go here" is better than ten people jumping and saying "Hey, look, you’re doing this wrong."
I’m a recipient of a gentle ‘rebuke.’ I promise, I won’t do it again.
/sobs uncontrollably
"Where can you go from there? Where? ... Nowhere. Exactly. What we do is, if we need that extra push over the cliff, you know what we do?"
You’re a good man. I wouldn’t have accepted you into the Black Avatar Alliance if you weren’t.
My ability to post is only surpassed by my ability to pinch pennies.
… and sista!
"Where can you go from there? Where? ... Nowhere. Exactly. What we do is, if we need that extra push over the cliff, you know what we do?"
personally, i think the goal from down on high was for readers to “uphold our end of the bargain” in keeping this a great blog. now that can be interpreted in a bunch of different ways, and the four original writers gave their opinions of how we the commenters can do a better job to keep this place great. as JP said at the outset, it gets “trickier and trickier to maintain the [site’s] integrity” as it grows. so all along the idea was for commenters to do their part…WM, if you think self-policing isn’t the best way from keeping these comment sections from becoming like puck daddy’s or TEB’s comment sections, then this is your chance to talk about how we ought to go about it. but i don’t read it as a gestapo of select policemen making everyone follow there own rules. these four guys started the roundtable discussion, and the vast majority of comments picked up right where they left off.
by Natty Bumppo on Feb 9, 2010 7:16 PM EST up reply actions 5 recs
Natty, I agree with a ton of this, but my big issue with this is when there’s ten people jumping on you for making a mistake you don’t know you’re making, it’s going to discourage people from posting. Think about before, so many people have said they were afraid to post because they thought their opinions weren’t good. Now, in addition to that, if you don’t type out “you” or if you post in the wrong forum on accident (Which we’ve all done) you get jumped on by ten folks? That’s annoying.
I posted above, if we were kinder to the people coming in, we’d not only have more of them, but there’d be fewer issues. The people who continuously spit on your words, yerah, team toughness the shit out of those guys, but I’d prefer if one person would say something. Whoever’s first to see it, say something, and then just leave it be. We can drive something into the fucking ground at times, and it’s annoying, and needs to stop.
I love this blog, and I love the community, but I don’t want to force other people’s opinions, and I sure as Hell don’t want it to become a something awful forum or a /b, which is the direction it’s heading.
Familiar Rapports: Bald Pollack, F&B, Gould Old Days.
Lobbies: Osala, Perreault, Erskine, Pothier, Neuvirth, Flash.
Fan of: Mean Lars Backstrom, Line Mashing, Cake.
We can drive something into the fucking ground at times, and it’s annoying, and needs to stop.
Example: I open the Caps/Pens recap post and all I see for the first few minutes is sniping back and forth about anti-crosby memes. Not supporting anti-crosby memes, but the viciousness and dismissiveness that they were met with was just shocking, really.
My ability to post is only surpassed by my ability to pinch pennies.
Whoever’s first to see it, say something, and then just leave it be. We can drive something into the fucking ground at times, and it’s annoying, and needs to stop.
this rings really true. i’m in full support. the gentle nudge can really fall flat after 5 or 6 times with the same commenter, though. and maybe i’m now an old fogey bemoaning “the good old days” at this blog, but i disagree with you that more posters could ever = fewer issues. i’d rather we keep a lot of the CI posters over at CI, the puck daddy posters over at puck daddy. do you think your GF would be interested in participating in hockey discussion? or just catching up with friends? i know there’s been brush back, but i still think the best way to maintain the site as an educational tool for people like me and as a social networking tool for people like ovechwin is to have chatty cathy threads alongside the hockey discussion.
by Natty Bumppo on Feb 9, 2010 7:37 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Yes, believe it or not, some girls actually like to talk hockey. I don’t appreciate the insinuation that this is not the case.
My ability to post is only surpassed by my ability to pinch pennies.
okay, i misread your comment. a lot to process at once, i should’ve stepped back and re-read everything. i’m sorry.
the way i see it, people are “strongarming” new posters that aren’t bringing anything of value to the discussion, so it’s one and the same. if someone enters into the fray with a good attitude and wants to talk hockey, i can’t think of examples where they were strongarmed to the point they didn’t want to comment anymore.
They’re getting strongarmed before ever getting a chance to contribute anything of substance. If some new poster waited the 24 hours to get into our little club, and their first post happens to be after a Pens/Caps game, and it happens to be “rah-rah go Caps Pens suck,” it is automatically assumed that they’ll never be able to post anything but.
My ability to post is only surpassed by my ability to pinch pennies.
That’s absolutely not true. If you don’t even have tough enough skin to take a rebuke, you probably don’t belong here. If you’ve posted with any regularity, you’ve been called out here. I’ve been called out, I’ve seen most of the regulars called out. Who cares, it’s not going to scare someone off just because you get taught the rules of the road.
And this argument is a fucking straw man. The push back isn’t because we are telling new posters how to comport themselves here. The push back is because of a divergence of visions among the established regulars. Jordan, Ovechwin, WM, and some others are more tolerant of random OT talk. That’s fine, but don’t hide behind the poor innocent lurkers. You guys were pissed when I called you out on Old Bay. Fine. You say “just say it once and don’t jump down our throats” but the point has been made repeatedly and people do the same shit. Hell, it’s gotten to the point that you passive aggressively joke about how you piss off other people with your random OT stuff. Personally, I’d just like a Chatty Cathy thread and then see how it works, but it’s not my call.
And let’s not pretend it’s the 4 of us mutinying and telling everyone how this community should be run. Look at the intro and the byline and ask yourself what that might mean. I wish J.P. would just step in and settle it because obviously the difference of opinion among the regulars isn’t going to just sort itself out.
Killer_Carlson and Steckel Me Elmo are like brothers to me. And when I say brothers I don't mean like actual brothers. I mean it like how black people use it, which is more meaningful, I think.
by Rob Parker on Feb 9, 2010 8:06 PM EST up reply actions 5 recs
About the “straw man” argument: I’m just telling you the impression I got upon opening the recap comments that day. I closed them after a while because I got tired of reading regulars from around here telling other Caps fans to be more gentlemanly and use their browser’s back button if they didn’t like it. It came off as condescending and mean, and I was honestly just something I don’t wan to see coming out of a community that I like so bad.
You say Who Cares, but I kinda do care.
My ability to post is only surpassed by my ability to pinch pennies.
I don’t really know which comments you’re talking about, so maybe that’s the problem. I thought we were talking about my dissatisfaction with Old Bay/Mountain Due stuff the other day. If there was something else I missed, I apologize, but I’ve also been skipping the Clips or only partially “attending” them lately.
Killer_Carlson and Steckel Me Elmo are like brothers to me. And when I say brothers I don't mean like actual brothers. I mean it like how black people use it, which is more meaningful, I think.
If there was something else I missed, I apologize, but I’ve also been skipping the Clips or only partially "attending" them lately.
Ditto here … and dare I say, b/c of the possibility of seeing way too much irrelevant comments/posts versus relevant ones.
"Where can you go from there? Where? ... Nowhere. Exactly. What we do is, if we need that extra push over the cliff, you know what we do?"
Look, I was upset because I took Knee High’s comments to basically mean “Look, our shit isn’t working.”
I’m not trying to get any straw man arguments, or any push backs. We talked about the OT shit, and I flat out told you how I felt. And at the time of the OT discussion, there wasn’t a common feeling about it. This stuff there’s a common feeling for, and that’s what I’m arguing about.
Familiar Rapports: Bald Pollack, F&B, Gould Old Days.
Lobbies: Osala, Perreault, Erskine, Pothier, Neuvirth, Flash.
Fan of: Mean Lars Backstrom, Line Mashing, Cake.
Look, I was upset because I took Knee High’s comments to basically mean "Look, our shit isn’t working."
Well, J.P. put this all together and posted it, so I think it’s fair to conclude that he’s concerned that what’s been going on lately isn’t working. I think it’s also telling that he and DMG have been less and less involved in the comments lately. I can’t speak for them, obviously, but I know what I’m taking from that.
And as for the rest of it I don’t mind arguing. I think that was part of what J.P. wanted; for us to figure this out on our own. There is a range of opinions and we need to find something that works to maintain the integrity of what has grown here while still allowing it to grow. I appreciate your stance on the whole Chatty Cathy debate, and I don’t even think we disagree all that much on the bottom line.
Killer_Carlson and Steckel Me Elmo are like brothers to me. And when I say brothers I don't mean like actual brothers. I mean it like how black people use it, which is more meaningful, I think.
by Rob Parker on Feb 9, 2010 9:54 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
If you don’t even have tough enough skin to take a rebuke, you probably don’t belong here. If you’ve posted with any regularity, you’ve been called out here. I’ve been called out, I’ve seen most of the regulars called out. Who cares, it’s not going to scare someone off just because you get taught the rules of the road.
Hey, now … hey! Wanna hug it out? C’mon bitch, let’s hug it out!
"Where can you go from there? Where? ... Nowhere. Exactly. What we do is, if we need that extra push over the cliff, you know what we do?"
was there a time when someone wrote “C.A.P.S. CAPS CAPS CAPS” and they got told to go away? i’ll admit that i internally do my best to keep track of different commenters so that i know who to read and who not to read, but i don’t see people shouting down new commenters for expressing caps pride or even penguin hate. i’ve seen it for the nickname use and that’s it. otherwise, the new commenter is more likely just to see his/her comment sit there without response.
I didn’t quite mean more people = fewer issues. I meant if we were kinder instead of jumping on things like we do, the people coming in would be less problematic with the rules. And I’m all for jumping on people for repeated violations, but just one? That’s counterproductive.
Familiar Rapports: Bald Pollack, F&B, Gould Old Days.
Lobbies: Osala, Perreault, Erskine, Pothier, Neuvirth, Flash.
Fan of: Mean Lars Backstrom, Line Mashing, Cake.
maybe i’m now an old fogey bemoaning "the good old days" at this blog
Did somebody call?
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Feb 9, 2010 10:58 PM EST up reply actions
that must have been subliminal on my part. :)
by Natty Bumppo on Feb 9, 2010 11:34 PM EST up reply actions
I love this blog, and I love the community, but I don’t want to force other people’s opinions, and I sure as Hell don’t want it to become a something awful forum or a /b, which is the direction it’s heading.
Err, I’m going to go out on a limb here and say that enforcing community guidelines for civility is the exact and diametric opposite of /b/ and SA.
I posted above, if we were kinder to the people coming in, we’d not only have more of them, but there’d be fewer issues.
Which issues would there be fewer of? I mean this in the most inquisitive possible way, please expound.
but I’d prefer if one person would say something. Whoever’s first to see it, say something, and then just leave it be. We can drive something into the fucking ground at times, and it’s annoying, and needs to stop.
We can swing too far to the other end of the spectrum, no one is denying that. I agree with this point absolutely.
Only YOU can prevent idiots from commenting!
by Knee high to a duck on Feb 9, 2010 7:38 PM EST up reply actions
Which issues would there be fewer of? I mean this in the most inquisitive possible way, please expound.
Less recap threads would be full of “Back button is up and to the left” for starters.
My ability to post is only surpassed by my ability to pinch pennies.
Less absolute refusal to let go of Cindy Crysby or Shittsburgh would have been a great way to end that early.
Only YOU can prevent idiots from commenting!
by Knee high to a duck on Feb 9, 2010 7:45 PM EST up reply actions
Gentler introduction of blog policies would have gone a long way towards making that happen, instead of dismissive statements like “there’s a welcome guide for a reason” or “there are stickied fanposts for a reason.”
My ability to post is only surpassed by my ability to pinch pennies.
If the poster was a first-timer, that would have been more reasonable, but they’d been posting in prior topics and possibly lurking for a time before that. It’s not like they were the first person in that thread to pull that crap and it had been going since the middle of the third period thread.
Only YOU can prevent idiots from commenting!
by Knee high to a duck on Feb 9, 2010 8:25 PM EST up reply actions
Maybe there’s just going to be an ugly transition time, and that’s what we’re seeing, but I just hate seeing more “that doesn’t go here” than actual discussion. That’s really my biggest issue.
Familiar Rapports: Bald Pollack, F&B, Gould Old Days.
Lobbies: Osala, Perreault, Erskine, Pothier, Neuvirth, Flash.
Fan of: Mean Lars Backstrom, Line Mashing, Cake.
fair enough. and i do hope it’s just a transition thing, too. i feel like i owe it to this blog to do that kind of thing, but my assumption is always that at some point we won’t have to. (or that more and more people can share the mantle.)
Gentler introduction of blog policies would have gone a long way towards making that happen, instead of dismissive statements
This is a critical point. It’s about team toughness, but that doesn’t mean any of us get to be nasty. I’ve flamed folks on here memorably twice, and to be honest I regret them both. It just wasn’t worth it. docciavelli and tyler are good guys. There are better ways to express disagreement. And that goes triple for new posters.
It’s a hard balance to strike. How do you tell someone that we don’t much like the “Crysbys” and “Philthys” without sounding antagonistic? But it’s important to try.
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Feb 9, 2010 11:01 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
SA is pretty similar to this at the current stage, or at least, the SA clans I’ve been with in online games.
Which issues would there be fewer of? I mean this in the most inquisitive possible way, please expound.
I’m saying that there’s people joining who may not understand the rules and want to jump right in. Imagine your first post here, at the site your friends have bragged about, you say Cindy Crosby. Granted, there’s no place for that, and I agree. Now, imagine 30 people jump on you (exaggeration for a point) and all say “We don’t do that here”. You’re a tempermental guy (I know I am), and you say “Look, fuck off, this is annoying and not worth it”. You probably leave, or you start shit up.
If you get just one or two “Hey, look, we prefer to leave that kind of behavior at CI”, the reaction is different. “Oh, I’m sorry, my mistake.”
There’ll still be people who say stuff (like we saw on Sunday) to the tune of “But crysby’s his name lol” and these kinds of things. Those kind of people should be derided away from the blog, and I’m all for that. If people fight the rules, yeah, put them in their place, but if people make a simple mistake, it sucks.
Granted, I was guilty of jumping on a guy because I got confused the other day. Four or five other people quickly jumped on him for posting something from Pensburgh. Had one comment stood out, he could have said “Oh, that wasn’t really me, I was quoting”, we tell him “Oh, use the quote feature” and then the situation is over, but I feel kind of guilty for labelling him a troll so early, and I hope he doesn’t hold a grudge for it.
Familiar Rapports: Bald Pollack, F&B, Gould Old Days.
Lobbies: Osala, Perreault, Erskine, Pothier, Neuvirth, Flash.
Fan of: Mean Lars Backstrom, Line Mashing, Cake.
It ended up more ‘love-in’ than I’d hoped, but I guess that was a fairly predictable reaction.
Forgive for I have sinned …
"Where can you go from there? Where? ... Nowhere. Exactly. What we do is, if we need that extra push over the cliff, you know what we do?"
You’ve done nothing wrong.
Familiar Rapports: Bald Pollack, F&B, Gould Old Days.
Lobbies: Osala, Perreault, Erskine, Pothier, Neuvirth, Flash.
Fan of: Mean Lars Backstrom, Line Mashing, Cake.
I second that.
Only YOU can prevent idiots from commenting!
by Knee high to a duck on Feb 9, 2010 7:29 PM EST up reply actions
Wanna know what’s crazy? Sometimes “what will JP, DMG, Becca, F&B or D’Ohboy write about this play?” instinctively pops into my mind before the reality of “Oh shit, WTF Sloan!” actually leaves my mouth along with a spray of Newcastle Brown Ale.
Cant say that the Rink is bigger than the Caps, but without doubt it gives me an indispensable place to read, research, and learn with others similarly brainwashed by this team, and this sport.
Thanks to all who lead and contribute. Great stuff indeed. Most def my Homepage. The first and last stops on my Google machine – daily.
Just read through about all the comments.
Chill out people, it’s a hockey blog. Let’s talk hockey. Let’s bask in the glory of 14 straight wins while it lasts. You hate the Penguins? Good, so do I.
Cheers.
DC Landing Strip - Waxed and Ready to Go
I Went to See a Fight and Then a Hockey Game Broke Out
Welcome RF. Appreciate the simple reminder of what the Rink that JP built is and to talk about what it is about in the first place. Please be assured that most, if not all of us, want to talk hockey to varying degrees — with that said, what did you really expect … how does anything involving hockey go without at least a single fight?
Kidding aside, you point out “it’s a hockey blog.” Presuming, that’s your answer to the inquiry
‘What is Japers’ Rink, fundamentally?’ would you care to share with us what you expect from a “hockey blog” as a reader and as a relatively new member of the commentariat? I also invite you to pitch in your two cents or whatever change you can spare for the following in light of the subject of this particular FanPost:
What enhances or detracts from your experience on the site?
What would you like The Rink to be?
How do we get there from here?
Let’s bask in the glory of 14 straight wins while it lasts.
We’re doing that, trust me … it’s plenty self evident, as I’m sure you’ve already seen, in the various weekly Ups and Downs, Clips, GDTs, FanShots, FanPosts and all the subsequent commentary that follow.
You hate the Penguins? Good, so do I.
Surprisingly, you’ll find some members of the Rink actually don’t. Infidels are here, you ask? Sure, why not … but not any that we can’t eventually convert or turn away from the dark side!
"Where can you go from there? Where? ... Nowhere. Exactly. What we do is, if we need that extra push over the cliff, you know what we do?"
I’m actually not a new member, just had a identity crisis name change about a month ago. Used to go by “ninefttall”. Been reading for about 3 and commenting for about 2 years now (just not as much as some of the regulars I guess).
Honestly, Japers is perfect and I wouldn’t change one thing about it. If I read a comment that annoys me then so be it. One click of the “x” button makes it disappear. The community guidelines that JP has created are more than enough to “monitor” this place and if they are broken, the boss knows what to do.
I think all comments should be welcome on a blog, provided everyone has a username and thus some form of accountability exists.
DC Landing Strip - Waxed and Ready to Go
Gotcha. Apologies for my presumption. Never the less, appreciate your thoughts. Hitting the ‘Z’ button is fine, but the frequency of which I have to do it sometimes gets a bit overwhelming as mentioned in an earlier comment I put up above.
The community guidelines that JP has created are more than enough to "monitor" this place and if they are broken, the boss knows what to do.
I have no doubts that JP knows what to do if he has to do it. Can’t speak for him, but I get the general feeling he, as well as other members of the community, hope we don’t get to a point where JP has to bring out that feared Ban Gavel to deal with a similar situation that had already happened at PPP. It was mentioned many posts above on a few occasions that there is a community generated from the readers of this blog and it’s that community that’s one of the strong qualities of Japers’ Rink. I would like to think it is a community that is strong and willing enough to keep each other in check, without having to unnecessarily resort or lean on JP, DMG, Becca H and Stephen Pepper to police the threads. I’m sure those four would rather not to do it, nor do they have the time or is not worth their time to do so. I’m also sure they would rather keep doing what they’re doing — providing meaningful content related to Caps’ hockey instead of baby sitting on a frequent basis.
We, members of the community as readers and commentariat here on Japers’ Rink, have a responsibility to hold our end of the deal. The community guidelines of this blog, are just that. Guidelines. Somehow they have to be upheld. Somehow the behavior that contributes to so much of the great user-generated content that makes this blog recognized as the top ice hockey blog to needs to be encouraged. Conversely the behavior that detracts or takes away from said user-generated content needs to be gently and consistently discouraged. That’s the nature of communities. There are certain behaviors that develop and define them and in turn the community shapes those behaviors and refines them based on how they would like the community to be defined.
I think that’s what this FanPost and the current passionate discourse that’s going on is trying to achieve. Someone mentioned growing pains. Indeed it is …
Hot chocolate calls …
"Where can you go from there? Where? ... Nowhere. Exactly. What we do is, if we need that extra push over the cliff, you know what we do?"
by Christoph J on Feb 10, 2010 11:29 AM EST up reply actions
Wow, this thread took a turn…
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
No kidding.
The one issue raised that concerns me is people being over aggressive in standing up to people either because of their ideas or the way they present them. I haven’t really seen this – is it happening on the Caps Clips threads (I’m usually not able to read all the comments in those)?
My thoughts on it are this. If it’s an issue of style or something that can be addressed in the community guidelines, there’s no reason for ten people to jump in and beat it into the ground – one person doing it and getting rec’d through the roof should be fine.
As for content debates – if someone comes on here throwing out an unpopular opinion, I think it’s everyone’s right to disagree, even if it winds up feeling like people are ganging up, because I don’t want anyone to think “I have something to add to this discussion, but so many people have already commented I’d better not”. If things are presented respectfully and valid points are made and the original commenter can’t handle that people disagree with them, they’re probably not interested in the kind of discussion we want here anyway. Content is key – saying “I can’t agree one your assessment of this player because of x,y, and z” is a lot different than saying “You think that guy’s good? Obviously you’re an idiot and know nothing about hockey! F- you!”
But in my experience, this is pretty much how the site operates. If anyone can point me to examples of otherwise, it’d be appreciated.
Content is key – saying "I can’t agree one your assessment of this player because of x,y, and z" is a lot different than saying "You think that guy’s good? Obviously you’re an idiot and know nothing about hockey! F- you!"
But in my experience, this is pretty much how the site operates. If anyone can point me to examples of otherwise, it’d be appreciated.
Appreciate you chiming in DMG. Can you clarify, in your experience and what you see/read, how the site operates? Do you see more of the former or the latter happening in actuality?
"Where can you go from there? Where? ... Nowhere. Exactly. What we do is, if we need that extra push over the cliff, you know what we do?"
by Christoph J on Feb 10, 2010 10:10 AM EST up reply actions
i read it as he sees more of the former. from what i’ve seen, if ANYONE tried to go with the latter (unless it was rapport between friends), they’d either be warned by the editors, or they’d be the ones targeted by other commenters to cut that crap out.
by Natty Bumppo on Feb 10, 2010 11:56 AM EST up reply actions
If it’s an issue of style or something that can be addressed in the community guidelines, there’s no reason for ten people to jump in and beat it into the ground – one person doing it and getting rec’d through the roof should be fine.
I think this is a big part of the problem — if six or eight people are composing essentially the same comment at the same time, none of them will realize that others are addressing it, and then the ‘offender’ perceives that he/she has been ganged up on.
OTOH, should we be waiting for you mods to address tricky comments or potential problems as they arise? You all (I think) have day jobs — whereas some of our most prolific, most team-tough commenters seem to have free time in the early going of the Clips threads.
"Camaraderie, that's what the Washington Capitals are all about."
by CapitalCentre on Feb 10, 2010 12:40 PM EST up reply actions
for better or worse? Just curious …
"Where can you go from there? Where? ... Nowhere. Exactly. What we do is, if we need that extra push over the cliff, you know what we do?"
by Christoph J on Feb 10, 2010 10:11 AM EST up reply actions
This is a good example of where I kind of wish the Z key went from earliest to latest new comment instead of top to bottom, haha. As someone who was lurking this thread (honestly afraid to chime in for most of it), I could see a real turn, but for the better.
It started out with pretty much everyone overreacting and freaking out, but once people actually started talking about things and clarifying them, it went towards a “See? We actually do pretty much agree” or at least a “I can see where you’re coming from.”
The only thing I don’t think people completely agree on still is the idea of an OT/Chatty Cathy type thread, but even those who don’t necessarily want it don’t seem to be against trying it. That’s just something that I don’t think everyone will agree 100% on, no matter what (and personally, I have no preference on either way).
Just my two cents :)
"No Brooks Laich, no win. Know Brooks Laich, know win."
by kellobellow on Feb 10, 2010 10:16 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recent FanPosts
FanShots
Quick hits of video, photos, quotes, chats, links and lists that you find around the web.
Recent FanShots
Southeast Standings
| GP | W | L | OTL | PT | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
Florida
|
55 | 27 | 17 | 11 | 65 |
|
Washington
|
55 | 28 | 22 | 5 | 61 |
|
Winnipeg
|
57 | 26 | 25 | 6 | 58 |
|
Tampa Bay
|
55 | 24 | 25 | 6 | 54 |
|
Carolina
|
56 | 20 | 25 | 11 | 51 |
(updated 2.13.2012 at 1:00 PM EST)
The Vault
In Association With
Latest Puck Daddy - NHL from Yahoo! Sports
- Forget Quenneville; GM Stan Bowman just gave Blackhawks goalies a vote of confidence
- Puck Headlines: Dustin Penner’s pancakes; why Stanley Cup is sports’ best trophy
- Fantasy Hockey: Odd year for rookies; Corey Perry on fire; buy on Robidas
- Marek Vs. Wyshynski Radio: Dave Bidini; NHL players and food; greatest trades never made
- Puck Daddy chats with John Tavares about all-star season, commitment to Islanders and Nassau Coliseum as a ‘dump’
Latest stories and headlines from NHL.com
- What were they thinking? Jets agree shootout with Malkin and Penguins a bad idea
- Struggling Toronto Maple Leafs set out on road trip amid plenty of questions
- Former Flyer OK with sharing record with Red Wings
- Jets deal minor-leaguer Riley Holzapfel to Ducks for Maxime Macenauer
- Coyotes goalie Smith named NHL first star after recording four wins last week
Certain photos copyright © 2012 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
