Pens Sergei Gonchar hit on Wild Cal Clutterbuck, from 11 January 2010, resulted in 5 minute interference penalty.
over 2 years ago
renhoak
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Well I guess we know what’s on next Saturday’s Coach’s Corner with Don Cherry now
Support bacteria - they're the only culture some people have.
by Rather Bengt on Jan 12, 2010 7:57 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
Clutterbuck on Gonchar: “He better hope he retires at the end of the year, I’ll tell you that … Somebody’s going to hurt him before the end of the year. Someone will. It’s not going to be me, but someone will.”
This sounds like he believes there’s some kind of widespread Gonchar hatred in the NHL. Really? If there’s any widespread interest in hurting somebody, as Clutterbuck suggests, I’d venture that he would be a much more popular target than Gonchar.
But maybe I’m wrong. Is there widespread Gonch-hate out there? Does he have some kind of secret reputation that only players like Clutterbuck are privy to?
Make sure to watch all the way through — at the 55 second mark you get an explanation for why Gonch did that. Pretty stupid of Gonch to rise to the bait, though, at 12:40 in the 3rd period of a game where the Pens were down by a goal. Good on Clutterbuck for drawing the penalty and for taking Pittsburgh’s best offensive defenseman off the ice for so long. That’s what Clutterbuck is paid to do.
Atta dinnin stick a who!
I’d love to have Clutterbuck on the Caps
Because now I can justify browsing and commenting during the work day with the argument that I am promoting my business.
by Sombrero Guy on Jan 12, 2010 11:05 AM EST up reply actions
Same here.
The artist formerly known as thehoagster07
by what Juneau about that? on Jan 12, 2010 12:07 PM EST up reply actions
The Caps might already have him?
Because now I can justify browsing and commenting during the work day with the argument that I am promoting my business.
by Sombrero Guy on Jan 12, 2010 12:19 PM EST up reply actions
man alive…I hope so.
Support your local bakery!
by bigonetimer on Jan 12, 2010 12:33 PM EST up reply actions
FWIW
Delly is listed as 5’11 200 lbs
Clutterbuck is listed as 5’10, 196 lbs.
Because now I can justify browsing and commenting during the work day with the argument that I am promoting my business.
by Sombrero Guy on Jan 12, 2010 1:09 PM EST up reply actions
Pretty bush hit by Gonch. If Ovie did this, he’d get suspended.
Also, the Wild GM in NHL 10 just refuses to trade Clutterbuck to me, much to my chagrin. That guy is a great role player.
He also had a great mustache in november
by Garyland1177 on Jan 12, 2010 4:23 PM EST up reply actions
I'm as big a Gonch fan as there is...
Hell I named my cat after him, but that was a cheap-shot that is very unlike him (hell he rarely hits at all, never mind dirty). I hate to say it but he should be suspended for that. A game or two…
DC, where Hockey is a baffling ordeal.
by Chris meet Alex on Jan 12, 2010 11:46 AM EST reply actions
The Versus announcers were surprised he wasn’t tossed from the game for it. Wouldn’t be surprised if he gets a suspension.
He definitely should have been tossed from the game, that was a ridiculous cheap shot. There is no way he should have been out there to try and tie it up on the PP after he got out of the box.
I have no faith that supplemental discipline will hit Gonchar, but it should. That flying forearm shiver was at least as dangerous as anything AO has ever done, and showed a blatant intent to lay a cheap shot on Clutterbuck.
Of all our iniquities ignorance may be the worst
by Killer_Carlson on Jan 12, 2010 9:33 PM EST up reply actions
I’m not sure it was “flying” but I do agree it was dangerous and all forearm. Whether it was “as dangerous as anything AO has ever done” depends on whether or not you are more concerned with head injuries or knee injuries. I think there’s a body of evidence that the NHL supports the latter.
Now let's say you and I go toe to toe on bird law and see who comes out the victor.
Yes, but just because the NHL treats threats to the knee more harshly that doesn’t make knee injuries more dangerous. I think head injuries are definitely more dangerous.
And it looks to me like Gonchar clearly left his feet on that hit.
Of all our iniquities ignorance may be the worst
by Killer_Carlson on Jan 13, 2010 12:21 AM EST up reply actions
The WWE would envy that flying forearm.
My ability to post is only surpassed by my ability to pinch pennies.
And it’s Cal Clutterbuck.
Now let's say you and I go toe to toe on bird law and see who comes out the victor.
I see Sidney’s leadership-by-example is really rubbing off on the rest of the team!
Kung-fu Rink Rabbit
What’s taking Hooks so long to get in here?
Now let's say you and I go toe to toe on bird law and see who comes out the victor.
Nothing to refute or add.
Bad hit, but it’s not like this is a Chris Pronger (player with a history). I’d have no problem with a fine, since this is Gonch’s first brush with supplementary discipline in a long, long time. Don’t think a suspension is needed, but if he got a game I would’t complain.
You come at the king, you best not miss.
I’ll start this off by saying I’ve been following hockey intensely for only 2 years (and only Caps games basically) but I’m having more and more trouble identifying a clean hit from a dirty one (or at least one outside the rules). It seems everyone here agrees this was a dirty hit. I didn’t go check the internet if this is agreed by everyone, what Pens fans think etc…, but to me it’s pretty much the same hit than the Richards on Booth hit which so many hockey specialists said was a great hit. Gonchar checks him with his body, doesn’t put his arm or elbow up. Heck, he doesn’t even put his shoulder down, like Richards, which could have seriously hurt Clutterbuck. Clutterbuck turns away from the puck, has his head way down, and receives the hit. Is it because he is “away from the puck”. From my point of view, he was close enough to play it until he turned around. So if the puck had gone through Fedotenko and Clutterbuck had played it, and gotten smacked a second later, it would have been a great hit?
This is an honest question and thank you for trying to explain the situation to me; unless you consider it is so obvious it shouldn’t even be up for discussion, at which point I’ll try to educate myself. For me, the Richards hit is more dirty because he aims straight for the head with the shoulder. Gonchar doesn’t go for the head, it seems, Clutterbuck just turns at the last split second.
One final note: from what I’ve seen from Ovechkin, in the same situation, I’m pretty sure he would have destroyed Clutterbuck in exactly the same way.
The main issue is that Clutterbuck never touched the puck. No matter how Gooch hit him it wouldn’t have been legal. Then he leads with a forearm/elbow to the head, which is another problem. It’s not the worst hit ever, and I wouldn’t say that it’s worse than Richards/Booth (although at least Booth had played the puck and it wasn’t a purely retaliatory action) but I do think that Gooch targeted the head.
Until you can point to an example of AO destroying a guy away from the puck just because he was pissed that he got hit cleanly, I just can’t agree with your last sentence. AO would have no doubt destroyed CC if he had done that, but AO targets guys with the puck and is at least attempting a legitimate hockey play the vast majority of the time.
Now let's say you and I go toe to toe on bird law and see who comes out the victor.
Yeah, I don’t see any similarity between this hit and the Richards hit other than they were both to the head. Richards got away with it because it was technically a clean hit: elbow was down, player had just played the puck, and there is no rule about targeting the head. Still, I’d agree that it is a dirty hit since he clearly blindsided Booth and targeted his head.
Gonchar left his feet AND led with his forearm/elbow. Right off the bat those are clear violations of clean hitting. Add in the fact that Clutterbuck never played the puck and Gonchar hit him in the head and there is no question that this was an illegal hit.
Of all our iniquities ignorance may be the worst
by Killer_Carlson on Jan 12, 2010 9:40 PM EST up reply actions
You think Gooch left his feet before contact? Is there a clear view of this? Or are you from the Jibblescribbits school of thought?
Now let's say you and I go toe to toe on bird law and see who comes out the victor.
I’m only looking at the video above (which admittedly doesn’t have a clear shot of his feet) but it looks to me like he does, particularly with how out of control they are flying around after contact.
Either way, the leaving his feet factor is only a minor part of why this hit is really dirty.
Of all our iniquities ignorance may be the worst
by Killer_Carlson on Jan 13, 2010 12:25 AM EST up reply actions
Thanks, I guess the main thing I fail to see/understand is the fact the guy never touches the puck. I see so many hits, though, where the guy has the puck, gets rid of it, and gets hit a full 1 or 2 seconds after, I thought it was OK to hit someone who is trying to make a play on the puck, but never actually gets to it. About Ovechkin, we have seen Ovechkin anticipating the play to make a hit, and follow through nevertheless when the puck isn’t there (the knee on knees come to mind). But once again the main thing is the “he never had the puck” problem.
About the forearm/elbow, would you say that is worse than the shoulder? I think elbowing is worse, but the Gonchar hit I would call more of a body/forearm check with an arm follow-through.
So then, if the puck had gotten through Fedotenko, and Clutterbuck had it for a split second before getting hammered, and Gonchar would have hit him with his shoulder (a lot of ifs, I know), that would have been clean?
Putting aside the whole “retaliatory” thing, even though it’s pretty clear it’s there, Clutterbuck goes in there to play the puck, sees Fedotenko has it and turns away at the last moment, which is when Gonchar arrives. I think Gonchar is trying to hit him but I don’t think he expected Clutterbuck to turn around right in his check. It’s one of those “I couldn’t stop at the last split second” things. Well, looking at it again, I better understand, Gonchar actually speeds up when Clutterbuck turns away from the puck. Looking at it this way, I understand the whole thing better. he clearly chose to hit him without the puck.
Thanks again.
Having had the puck changes everything. Finishing your check after the guy passes is OK. Hitting a guy before he ever touches the puck is not. I dispute your 1-2 second characterization, but it’s not all that important. Most of the hits, even the ones that seem late, are tops a full second after the guy moves the puck. Even the Stevens on Kariya hit was probably within a second when it happened live. Slow-mo changes our entire perception of “late.”
Now let's say you and I go toe to toe on bird law and see who comes out the victor.
This is pretty much my take too. The reason this one is bright-line dirty is that Clutterbuck did not touch the puck. You get some leeway if the guy plays it, no longer has it, and you’re finishing your check or following through shortly after the puck leaves. If you hit a guy going to get a puck before he gets there, it’s (supposed to be) always illegal. When you add in a hit to the head and the retaliatory element, it’s a clear call.
I think benjik’s hypothetical regarding what would have been clean is accurate. If Gonch hit CC after he had played the puck and not led with the forearm, I don’t think anyone would have called it dirty. Unless it was a Booth/Richards type of hit (which frankly I would be shocked if Gonchar pulled).
The reason Booth/Richards is more controversial (in that not everyone agrees it was dirty) is that it’s more nuanced. Most things about Richards’ check were legal, it was just the targeting of the head and the ferocity of the hit, knowing that Booth had no idea it was coming, that make it “dirty”.
Both of Ovechkin’s knee on knee hits were on players carrying the puck.
And I’m not attacking you and this applies to far more than just this Gonchar hit, but I hate when people justify cheap shots by saying things like “it’s a fast game, we can’t just change where we are going.” That is lame. These guys are some of the best athletes in the game, have to make split second decisions at top speed all the time and react to different scenarios and player movements, and yet you don’t think they can slow down or change direction when they see a vulnerable player? Iginla made an argument along these lines early this year talking about head shots, and I completely agree. How can NHLers make split second decisions and actions to dodge and stick handle through defenders, but not hold off on destroying a vulnerable player.
Of all our iniquities ignorance may be the worst
by Killer_Carlson on Jan 12, 2010 9:46 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Yeah, I understand that. Please note that in the end, I do agree Gonch had plenty of time to not hit him (see end of my comment).
Regarding the split second decisions, I’ve never played ice hockey, and certainly not at that speed so I can’t say for sure. But definitely it’s pretty easy for them to not hit a player in the head at the last second, but trying to stop hitting completely at the last second can be dangerous for the hitter. basically if he loses his balance or control trying to avoid a guy at the last minute because the guy puts his head down or turns his back, then the hitter can put himself in a vulnerable position. I think it’s different than any stickhandling split second action, because they’ve got all their momentum going in one direction at top speed, not expecting to have to change direction, so I can see how trying to avoid a player like that isn’t that easy. Knee on knees can also occur from such things I think. I personnaly hate boarding calls when the guy turns his back at the last moment. It seems like a cheap way to get a penalty call.
































