What Losing Chris Bourque Really Means
by J.P. on Sep 30, 2009 4:00 PM EDT
366 comments
Before we get carried away about the loss of Chris Bourque who was claimed off waivers by the Pittsburgh Penguins this afternoon, let's get clear on what exactly the Caps lost, namely an under-sized 'tweener of a forward with modest upside and a marketable name (had the Caps put "Chris Smith" on waivers, perhaps he'd have cleared), who, in five years since being drafted, couldn't break into the organization's top-12 (or 13, or 14) forwards (and who made it all the way through the dregs of the League and to Pittsburgh before being claimed off waivers).
But what's troubling about the transaction (besides the lightning-quick "Hey, kid, you made it/Sorry, kid, you've been cut" aspect of it) is twofold, as it demonstrates relatively rare asset mismanagement on the part of the Caps' front office and it foreshadows just how little personnel flexibility the team will have this season.
On the first point, regardless of how good Bourque is now or may become - he's probably more Martin St. Pierre than Martin St. Louis - what the Caps had yesterday and, more importantly, all summer, was a 23-year-old former second-round pick who was a 20-goal/50-assist player in the AHL last year. And they got nothing for him. Not even the fifth-round pick they got in return for Sami Lepisto (who makes just $27,500 less than Bourque) earlier this summer. After investing a decent amount in Bourque over the course of his entry-level NHL contract, having nothing to show for it at this point is disappointing.
Perhaps more importantly, though, Bourque was a victim of the salary cap, and was replaced on the roster post-claim by AHL veteran Boyd Kane. In other words, the $77,500 difference in 2009-10 salary between the two players made the difference in allowing the team to squeeze under the $56.8 million salary cap. With that in mind, ask yourself how this team's going to make that key deadline deal, or handle a rash of short-term injuries. It doesn't take much imagination to see how it can get awfully dicey, awfully fast.
At the end of the day, if the Caps had wanted to keep Chris Bourque, they'd have found a way to have kept Chris Bourque. His absence won't make or break the 2009-10 Caps. But what could very well break them is a lack of roster flexibility, and no one player is to blame for that. Point fingers instead, if you must, at a front office that seems to be operating under the assumption that its biggest financial headache will somehow simply disappear. Until it does, it's apparent that there was, and is, no Plan B.
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Truth. This is the reason CBo and the team’s handling of the situation. matters.
by TylerG on Sep 30, 2009 4:05 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I take issue with using his lack of breaking into the team by now as a condemnation of his abilities. He clearly earned a roster spot last season in camp, but got shafted by his waiver-exempt status.
Otherwise the perspective is nice. This is a guy that wasn’t likely to have some huge impact on the score sheet, even if things went well. For some reason the Caps didn’t see fit to keep him for the whole season, and I guess that is the biggest issue here. Sloan is really more valuable than Bourque to this team for a full season? Laing is? Maybe there’s something that hasn’t gotten out that would clarify this all, but until then this is puzzling to say the least. The team chose to keep two AHLers long term over a tweener with upside; guess we’ll have to wait and see whether it was the right call.
by brs03 on Sep 30, 2009 4:05 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
If the guy had played like a guy who had to be in the lineup, he’d have been in the lineup. To use BB’s term, he didn’t knock anybody out.
by TylerG on Sep 30, 2009 4:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Though, in hindsight, I think you can argue he should have knocked out Brashear.
by David M. Getz on Sep 30, 2009 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, but I can understand WSH thinking that it needed (needs?) an enforcer and that Brash would do that. As you point out, ultimately Brash did not.
by TylerG on Sep 30, 2009 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fair – hindsight is 20/20, as they say.
by David M. Getz on Sep 30, 2009 4:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That’s fine. But that’s not really the standard you hold normal prospects to. Fehr got into the lineup many times despite not knocking anybody out. It’s too bad for Bourque that his “turn” came a year later, when the conditions weren’t right for it.
Bourque didn’t make himself someone that had to be kept, for sure, but he also did what you might expect with the [nearly nonexistent] chances he was given. I just don’t want people to pretend that he had been a disappointment that never showed anything even when given the chance.
by brs03 on Sep 30, 2009 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Caps were lacking...
In terms of grinding / punishing forwards. The teams with these guys usually go home with the hardware. They (Caps) didnt need any more firepower. Bourque, and other 5 ft 8 in guys like Aucoin, arent what BB or GMGM were looking for. Knuble, Laing, and a healthy Clark will bust skulls in the corners. This is the biggest difference. I hope he does well somewhere else.
by The Admiral on Sep 30, 2009 4:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I disagree in that Bourque is almost an energy guy already. I can understand the role issue, I just think it’s shortsighted. Laing isn’t going to give you anything except for shot blocking, whereas Bourque could likely be used in a defensive (non-PK) role, or as a forechecker, or even as a more offensive guy down the line.
by brs03 on Sep 30, 2009 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sloan is really more valuable than Bourque to this team for a full season? Laing is?
I can absolutely buy Laing because he’ll help the penalty kill. With Sloan, I don’t think it’s an issue of whether he helps the team more than Bourque. I think it’s that the team wants to keep Sloan, move another defenseman, and gain a little bit of wiggle room under the cap. In that case the question is ‘Are Sloan and additional cap space worth more than Bourque and [defenseman]’ and I think you can in favor of Sloan and cap space.
by David M. Getz on Sep 30, 2009 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
yeah, but
that’s contingent on moving the other guy(s).
I'm trying to work out a deal with a club in Europe
by D'ohboy on Sep 30, 2009 4:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You never know what will happen during the season. Blueliners take a good hit from Milan Lucic and it ends their season.
Remember also that Flash and Fehr should be back before too long.
"It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees." - Delores Ibarruri
by gotsparkly on Sep 30, 2009 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks, but
I’d rather ignore Flash’s impending return. Although, given his pastiness, maybe I won’t notice him against the back-drop of the ice. If he’s naked.
I'm trying to work out a deal with a club in Europe
by D'ohboy on Sep 30, 2009 4:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’d rather have Cbo than Flash… We picked too many guys up and didn’t clean house when we needed to. Bad managing, for once. We all have to admit that GMGM has been some sort of magical wizard the last few years, but that this is a huge screw up. Cbo brought grit and determination to a team that, in my opinion, lacks it quite a bit. I will miss him and hope that he finds success with the evil empire. Puck Fittsburg.
Caps 'n Bears
by Bongos on Sep 30, 2009 9:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
CBo got 21 goals at the AHL level, and Flash got 19 at the NHL level. both for very low salary hit, so flash has way more upside here.
by hockeyman33 on Sep 30, 2009 9:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I get the scoring stats… ALL THE STATS… but (I know everyone will get a laugh) there is more sports than stats… Flash had hot-cold-warm spells all season. His inconsistency is why I wouldn’t take him. And at the same time… we have more guys that could easily replace him. Can’t argue with the cap hit, but CBo was always tenacious and always after the puck. If (and I say if because we clearly won’t know) he tranlated his style from Hershey to here, he would have filled an energy gap we severely lack.
Caps 'n Bears
by Bongos on Sep 30, 2009 9:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The issue here isn’t between them, though, its effin Nylander. It all hinged on him and we couldnt get rid of him. It sucks. I just hope he doesnt become a team distraction or cancer.
Caps 'n Bears
by Bongos on Sep 30, 2009 9:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
is he still practicing and all with the team? Everyone knows he won’t play, and that BB would rather double shift guys than bring him in.
by hockeyman33 on Sep 30, 2009 9:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I almost feel like by carrying 8 D now it’s implicit that they are going to move other guys. But until they do so who knows.
If you're after gettin' the honey, then you don't go killin' all them bees.
by Fehr and Balanced on Sep 30, 2009 4:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’ve been feeling that from the start of training camp but I think it’s a pipedream. Probably b/c our 5-8 are more valuable to us than to anyone else — they’ve been in our system for a few years, know tendencies, etc.
by Fehrskine on Sep 30, 2009 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Right – the plan is a) luck into moving Nyls and/or b) luck into moving a defenseman. Both are tough plays at the moment.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
by J.P. on Sep 30, 2009 4:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
There are two signings that I don’t really get, one is the Erskine signing from the middle of last year. Not so much that they kept him, but kept him when they did. The second is the Juice signing. Did they not expect that any of these kids from Hershey would be ready come Oct. 1?
by Sct112 on Sep 30, 2009 5:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
There is less of a timeline on the D problem, though. They can wait it out and either injuries to us or injuries to someone else are going to make our glut of 5-7’s more valuable. Then a solution will present itself. The quicker we get Nyls off the books the better. Time is already pressed on that one.
If you're after gettin' the honey, then you don't go killin' all them bees.
by Fehr and Balanced on Sep 30, 2009 5:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Facts.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
by J.P. on Sep 30, 2009 5:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, but then do you really think Sloan would have been picked up on waivers? Why not waive him, assign him to Hershey to start, then call him up (he’s an AHL vet so he should be immune to re-entry waivers, right? Or am I getting confused?) whenever that deal gets made, if it ever does?
That way if you do end up losing someone it’s only an AHLer (albiet one that has filled in admirably), and not someone you’ve invested years of development into, and not someone that could be quite useful right now as well.
Of course, as I’ve said before, this all goes out the window if there’s something we’re not hearing, something that made Bourque wear out his welcome here.
by brs03 on Sep 30, 2009 5:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So, let’s hear what you would have done.
"It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees." - Delores Ibarruri
by gotsparkly on Sep 30, 2009 4:06 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
How far back in time do we get to go to answer this?
by David M. Getz on Sep 30, 2009 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, the obvious wrench in the gears is Nylander.
It looked like a good move when they signed him. I had very high hopes for him at the beginning of last year, to come back from a shoulder injury and really produce.
Other than Nyls, what could you do different? Not extend AO? Not sign Theodore? Not extend Erskine? Pay Green less?
They need to get rid of Nylander. Boyd Kane’s presence tells me that they are royally screwed if they don’t, as the article rightly points out.
huh??
by fat_daddyo on Sep 30, 2009 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was thinking more along the lines of this past June versus this past week. Going back to last season or earlier is too much, imo.
by David M. Getz on Sep 30, 2009 4:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, right. I was thinking that’s too much, as well.
Going back to June…it all boils down to Nyls, and if they could have moved him they would have, I have to think.
huh??
by fat_daddyo on Sep 30, 2009 4:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
June.
"It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees." - Delores Ibarruri
by gotsparkly on Sep 30, 2009 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Are you sure. The $366,667 payment to Ben Clymer looks bad right now.
by jcgillen on Sep 30, 2009 5:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Great point and example of how a seemingly benign buyout comes back to bite in the ass.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
by J.P. on Sep 30, 2009 5:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And hammers home why Nyls can’t be bought out.
If you're after gettin' the honey, then you don't go killin' all them bees.
by Fehr and Balanced on Sep 30, 2009 5:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
by J.P. on Sep 30, 2009 5:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nylander retire?
Do the Caps get cap space if Nylander retires? I’m thinking that if I’m GMGM and I can’t move him, he doesn’t see one red second (to mix metaphors) of ice time to make him think hard about realizing NOBODY in ANY LEAGUE wants him at his price and they he simply needs to hang ’em up.
God kills a kitten every time Sydney Crosby whines.
by Chris meet Alex on Sep 30, 2009 5:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Caps do get the cap space back if he retires but I don’t think that’s likely. I think he still wants to play hockey and I doubt he’d give up the money just to ease the Caps’ situation.
If you're after gettin' the honey, then you don't go killin' all them bees.
by Fehr and Balanced on Sep 30, 2009 5:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I guess its a question of pride. Does he have any? Will he cash a check in the owners box all season?
God kills a kitten every time Sydney Crosby whines.
by Chris meet Alex on Sep 30, 2009 5:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes he would “cash a check in the owners box all season.” He has pride, thinks he can play right now, and has been working his ass of in training camp.
It’s not his fault if he can’t get ice time and it’s not his responsibility to retire when he can still play.
One guy just drove his semi as a float. I guess semis are cool.
by zephyr on Sep 30, 2009 5:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ted cashes checks at games?
If you've read this far...seek help.
by ThePeerless on Sep 30, 2009 5:58 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
That’s why I put it in quotes to make sure everyone knew that I didn’t think Ted had a bank built into the owners box.
One guy just drove his semi as a float. I guess semis are cool.
by zephyr on Sep 30, 2009 6:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You must be confusing VC with Fedex Field.
"Hey friend, an avatar makes you more personable, friendly. Have I mentioned we serve cigars and flavored vodka?"
by Bald Pollack on Sep 30, 2009 6:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well even if he decides nobody in the NHL will take him and he wants to go to the SEL, he can just tell that to GMGM and have GMGM make a transfer deal with the SEL club. Nyls still gets his full Caps salary and the Caps get the space back. It doesn’t make sense for Nyls to retire from the NHL to go look in Europe because he’d almost definitely have to take a pay cut. He’s guaranteed the salary he has now whether or not he plays, and regardless of where.
If you're after gettin' the honey, then you don't go killin' all them bees.
by Fehr and Balanced on Sep 30, 2009 5:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I can’t imagine anybody’s going to take him at his salary in any league and thus why at this price he’s going to ride the pine. Thus the choice of retire…
But then again, I could be wishful thinking.
God kills a kitten every time Sydney Crosby whines.
by Chris meet Alex on Sep 30, 2009 5:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
SEL: We’ll take you Nyls, but not for that money.
Nyls (or Agent): Hey GMGM, the SEL wants me! They really want me!
GMGM: Hey SEL, I hear you want Nyls; He’s in the best shape of his life!
SEL: Yeah but we aren’t eating all that money you idiots guaranteed him.
GMGM: So how much can you kick back?
Negotiations begin. Caps pay Nyls the salary he is guaranteed and the Caps recoup some of that through whatever loan arrangement is negotiated for. I’m not sure how the tax implications work out.
If you're after gettin' the honey, then you don't go killin' all them bees.
by Fehr and Balanced on Sep 30, 2009 5:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
interesting… a half-buyout. Do they get all of his salary cleared from the cap if they are still paying a portion of it? I would think that whatever they are paying would go towards the cap. That would be nice!
God kills a kitten every time Sydney Crosby whines.
by Chris meet Alex on Sep 30, 2009 5:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
As I understand it they get all the cap space back if he’s in another league on a loan agreement.
If you're after gettin' the honey, then you don't go killin' all them bees.
by Fehr and Balanced on Sep 30, 2009 5:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Correct. Given the barrel that the Caps are over, I expect they’d have to cough up the bulk of the cash involved, if not all of it. But they would gain all of the precious salary cap space.
huh??
by fat_daddyo on Sep 30, 2009 5:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It’s money down the drain, anyway. Better to have cap space for it.
by gfcaps fan on Sep 30, 2009 6:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sorry. Typed before reading the last sentence. Duh.
by gfcaps fan on Sep 30, 2009 6:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I guess its a question of pride. Does he have any? Will he cash a check in the owners box all season?
I’m over this line of thinking….just plain over it. I touched on it briefly earlier today, but I don’t fault the man for honoring out his contract. Hindsight is a bitch, but if you remember, top tier FAs did not want to come to DC…OV or no OV when Nylander was signed. The team was forced to pay top dollar + years on contracts to essentially bribe players to come here.
I’d have more issue with Nylander as a man if I found out other teams had been willing to take on his contract but he wouldn’t waive his NMC.
by Yoshietree on Sep 30, 2009 9:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why should he do that? He can sit in the press box and collect several million dollars, why should he give all that money up?
by brs03 on Sep 30, 2009 5:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Heh. Fish noted Clymer in his .ppt on Saturday.
by Stephen Pepper on Sep 30, 2009 5:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’d take Clymer right now over Bourque
by Fehrskine on Sep 30, 2009 5:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
demoted Threeormore. Sign Manny Fernandez or another vet backup at half his salary.
not that i think losing bourque means anything
by Fehrskine on Sep 30, 2009 4:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Waived Sloan instead
I know you like him, but he’s organizational flotsam. He’s 28. He’s got no upside. He would have passed through waivers, and if not, hey, we’ve only got 7 D. Oh no. If we need someone, the drop-off from Sloan to Collins just isn’t that significant.
I'm trying to work out a deal with a club in Europe
by D'ohboy on Sep 30, 2009 4:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I do not think Sloan would have passed through waivers. ANA, CGY, CBJ, NSH, NYR….
by TylerG on Sep 30, 2009 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
???
Anaheim? Calgary? Nashville? Those teams are all tremendously deep on the blueline.
Let’s not forget that Marty Skoula just signed in Pittsburgh for peanuts, and Schubert passed through waivers.
I'm trying to work out a deal with a club in Europe
by D'ohboy on Sep 30, 2009 4:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was so hoping Bourque would pass through waivers to help level set “our” view of Caps fringe forward and D prospects
by Fehrskine on Sep 30, 2009 4:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t know – Nashville and Calgary both have great top end talent but questions about their depth.
by David M. Getz on Sep 30, 2009 4:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah. They’ve both got top-four guys, but after that….
by TylerG on Sep 30, 2009 5:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Plus, maybe CGY wants a D that can throw a clean open ice hit and answer for it himself. zzzzing.
If you're after gettin' the honey, then you don't go killin' all them bees.
by Fehr and Balanced on Sep 30, 2009 5:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
“isn’t that significant” — I’d say zero. Probably Helmer too for that matter.
by Fehrskine on Sep 30, 2009 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think you’re kidding yourself that he would have passed through waivers. There are a number of teams who could use a serviceable, NHL-caliber defenseman.
I know you don’t like him, but I don’t think he’d’ve made it through waivers either, and his status as a UFA as opposed to RFA makes him a tradeable asset.
"It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees." - Delores Ibarruri
by gotsparkly on Sep 30, 2009 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
his status as a UFA as opposed to RFA makes him a tradeable asset.
How? A team acquiring a pending RFA has cost certainty and control over their movement. Both are good things unless he’s already overpaid.
by David M. Getz on Sep 30, 2009 4:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Someone looking for short-term help?
"It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees." - Delores Ibarruri
by gotsparkly on Sep 30, 2009 4:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
But why is a UFA better? If you don’t like the RFA you just don’t re-sign him.
by David M. Getz on Sep 30, 2009 4:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Enh, fair enough I guess, but it just seems to me that UFA’s have fewer strings attached.
"It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees." - Delores Ibarruri
by gotsparkly on Sep 30, 2009 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
RFAs don’t have any strings attached from the team’s perspective. It’s the same amount of risk as a UFA but with a higher potentially reward because you can choose the retain the player.
by David M. Getz on Sep 30, 2009 4:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Who exactly do you think we're talking about?
This is TYLER FREAKING SLOAN. He’s a warm body with a low cap-hit. Maybe someone does take him. So? Call up Collins. Or Helmer. Or some other warm body with a low cap-hit.
I'm trying to work out a deal with a club in Europe
by D'ohboy on Sep 30, 2009 4:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
fwiw, Helmer’s not under contract with the Caps.
by David M. Getz on Sep 30, 2009 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rog
Arsene then. Or Amadio. Or whomever’s left down there. When the options are “lose prospect with potential,” or “lose non-prospect at position of major organizational strength,” I take option #2.
I'm trying to work out a deal with a club in Europe
by D'ohboy on Sep 30, 2009 4:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Um, Carlznerson?
If you're after gettin' the honey, then you don't go killin' all them bees.
by Fehr and Balanced on Sep 30, 2009 4:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Can't
Cap space. If we can’t fit Bourque, we sure as hell can’t fit those guys, barring a move.
I'm trying to work out a deal with a club in Europe
by D'ohboy on Sep 30, 2009 4:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
can’t fit Bourque in part because……..Tyler Sloan is up.
by RedBirdie on Sep 30, 2009 5:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Right, but
at $800k+, you’d need to move BOTH to fit even Carlson, by my (admittedly crappy) math.
I'm trying to work out a deal with a club in Europe
by D'ohboy on Sep 30, 2009 5:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah momentary brain fart. Realized it right after I posted it. Comment, read, think.
If you're after gettin' the honey, then you don't go killin' all them bees.
by Fehr and Balanced on Sep 30, 2009 5:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Speaking of Collins, did he ever get officially assigned to Hershey?
by gfcaps fan on Sep 30, 2009 5:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dead Horse Beating
If you needed any further proof that Sloan would have passed through waivers easily:
Matt Lashoff cleared waivers yesterday. The #22 Overall pick in the 2005 draft. He’s struggled somewhat at the NHL level, but he’s only 23 and has an excellent track record in the AHL. He makes $585k.
If Matt Lashoff, an equally cheap and equally good (probably better, actually) player as Sloan, with significantly more potential, clears waivers, then Sloan clears.
I'm trying to work out a deal with a club in Europe
by D'ohboy on Oct 1, 2009 12:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’d have made it my job to trade get something in return for Bourque, as it’s now clear that he wasn’t in their plans (hoping for Nyls to move or for some long-term injuries does not constitute a plan).
Sparkly: “How do you know they didn’t try to move him?”
JP: “I don’t know that, and I assume they did. But obviously they didn’t try hard enough. They moved Lepisto – they could’ve moved Bourque.”
Sparkly: “How do you know?”
JP: “I don’t. That’s not the point. The point is you don’t spend years developing an asset and then lose it for nothing, and when you do, you’ve done something wrong.”
Sparkly: “How do you know?”
Etc.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
by J.P. on Sep 30, 2009 4:48 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
I’d have made it my job to trade get something in return for Bourque, as it’s now clear that he wasn’t in their plans (hoping for Nyls to move or for some long-term injuries does not constitute a plan).
I agree. The front office should have seen this problem coming a week or two ago and they should have moved Bourque.
by David M. Getz on Sep 30, 2009 4:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Longer than a week or two ago. I mean, what has changed since, say, the RFA period? Or heading into it? Jurcina got a nice deal, but you have to prepare for that eventuality. Did BMo’s tiny deal force Bourque out?
I dunno. You knew even when the Calder Cup was being hoisted that Bourque would have to either be a Cap or clear waivers, and you knew he wasn’t a top-12 guy then, so it should’ve been a high priority item to move him this summer.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
by J.P. on Sep 30, 2009 4:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Kyle Quincey
This kinda reminds me of his situation with the Wings a couple of years ago. Not sure the Wings are ruing the day, but he has gone on to a decent little career.
I'm trying to work out a deal with a club in Europe
by D'ohboy on Sep 30, 2009 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t think the Caps will ever truly rue the day they lost Bourque. But that doesn’t mean they should be ok with losing him for nothing.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
by J.P. on Sep 30, 2009 5:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just maybe they thought that this was the best way to get rid of him. Maybe they tried other avenues unsuccessfully & now decided on this. With all the young (unproven ) talent, there was probably no room for C-Bo.
LIVING IN PA IS NOT A CRIME. LIKING THE PENS OR FLYERS IS.
by Sidehillman on Sep 30, 2009 6:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I find it very doubtful that the team couldn’t have moved him for something, even if it were only a mediocre draft choice.
by David M. Getz on Sep 30, 2009 6:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree, but of course we don't reall know & maybe they tried.
LIVING IN PA IS NOT A CRIME. LIKING THE PENS OR FLYERS IS.
by Sidehillman on Sep 30, 2009 6:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
They would have had to try much earlier. By banking on Nyls’ money getting cleared they waited until the last minute when their balls were in a sling. Every GM knew they were over and had to shed salary so what could he really ask for in return? They could have moved him for something, but that time to do that was back when they moved Lepisto.
If you're after gettin' the honey, then you don't go killin' all them bees.
by Fehr and Balanced on Sep 30, 2009 6:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bold statement.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
by J.P. on Sep 30, 2009 6:49 PM EDT up reply actions 5 recs
Yes it is, but so are a lot of the other hypothesis put forth here. At this point one is correct & we will never know for sure.
LIVING IN PA IS NOT A CRIME. LIKING THE PENS OR FLYERS IS.
by Sidehillman on Sep 30, 2009 6:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Another bold statement.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
by J.P. on Sep 30, 2009 7:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Apparently so subtle he hasn’t caught on yet.
by CP2Devil on Sep 30, 2009 8:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Heh. Glad someone (multiple someone’s, in fact) did.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
by J.P. on Sep 30, 2009 10:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sharp as a tack, your readership.
If you're after gettin' the honey, then you don't go killin' all them bees.
by Fehr and Balanced on Sep 30, 2009 10:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And we have an enforcer who’s all too happy to play road games…
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
by J.P. on Sep 30, 2009 10:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I swear I was gonna play nice. I really was just curious as to how excited they were, and whether that excitement was over the player or from where he came. But that shit… I couldn’t turn away.
If you're after gettin' the honey, then you don't go killin' all them bees.
by Fehr and Balanced on Sep 30, 2009 10:25 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Well done F&B. You showed some serious restraint.
Because now I can justify browsing and commenting during the work day with the argument that I am promoting my business.
by Sombrero Guy on Oct 1, 2009 12:39 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Kept his sweater all nice and tied down, he did. A perfect gentleman. The Code has been paid its due.
IS PAЯTY NOW
by Your Nation's Capital on Oct 1, 2009 12:03 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
are you not entertained?
“are you not entertained?”
— natty
i just said it, so you can go ahead and attribute it to me.
by Natty Bumppo on Oct 1, 2009 1:04 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
better.
"Are you not entertained?" -- Coach Natty Bumppo
by Natty Bumppo on Oct 1, 2009 1:10 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Longer than a week or two ago. I mean, what has changed since, say, the RFA period? Or heading into it?
Laing made the team and Fehr became ineligible for LTIR. If Laing’s in Hershey and Fehr’s on IR, Bourque’s in DC, isn’t he? Even with a healthy Fleischmann?
by David M. Getz on Sep 30, 2009 5:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
But did Laing pass Bourque? I tend to doubt it – Laing was always ahead of Bourque.
As for Fehr, yeah, if he’s on LTIR, Bourque is still here. But again, we’re back to planning on injuries, which isn’t a plan at all (sorta how they got “lucky” that Clark and Pothier were on LTIR for so long last year).
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
by J.P. on Sep 30, 2009 5:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fehr on LTIR just delays the day Bourque gets waived.
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Sep 30, 2009 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
All the more reason they needed to be more aggressive in moving him.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
by J.P. on Sep 30, 2009 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Even without Laing on the roster?
by David M. Getz on Sep 30, 2009 5:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You can replace “Laing” with any of the other forwards ahead of Bourque on the depth chart.
Team needed to waive someone. They waived the guy at the bottom of their depth chart. I’d be more pissed if they’d lost Laing. At least that guy has a defined role in the NHL.
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Sep 30, 2009 5:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
How do you feel about Sloan vs. Bourque?
by bodyodor on Sep 30, 2009 5:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sloan outplayed 7 NHL defensemen to earn a spot on the team. The reason there are 8 NHL defensemen right now on the roster is to avoid “rare asset mismanagement.” Presumably the return on the defenseman they trade will be greater than the return on any trade involving Bourque.
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Sep 30, 2009 5:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed, though I’d preface the comment with “We’re told that…”
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
by J.P. on Sep 30, 2009 5:32 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
“We’re told that” what? That Sloan outplayed them? Just getting confused…
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Sep 30, 2009 5:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes. I think there’s a bit of a sales job done on Sloan. Don’t get me wrong, he’s shown himself to be serviceable.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
by J.P. on Sep 30, 2009 5:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hmm. Hadn’t considered that, but it makes sense. Talking him up to try and sell him higher…In the last two hours I’ve realized that the Caps will not be making any deadline acquisitions this year. Again.
That bums me out waaaaay more than Bourque or Sloan.
huh??
by fat_daddyo on Sep 30, 2009 5:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You never know what may happen through the course of the season. Theo might be going somewhere on deadline day. Nylander’s cap space may be freed up by them, etc…
One guy just drove his semi as a float. I guess semis are cool.
by zephyr on Sep 30, 2009 5:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
THAT’S what I needed to hear!
huh??
by fat_daddyo on Sep 30, 2009 5:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This should help you feel better
I'm trying to work out a deal with a club in Europe
by D'ohboy on Sep 30, 2009 6:03 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I don’t think the sell job was for the benefit of other NHL teams. This is all about getting the fans on board.
by bodyodor on Sep 30, 2009 5:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nah, you’re confusing the Caps with the Redskins.
The Caps fans are already on board like a motherfucker, if you’ll pardon the expression.
huh??
by fat_daddyo on Sep 30, 2009 6:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m not convinced Boudreau does sales jobs. He’s a pretty lousy liar. He can clam up OK, but If he starts saying something he doesn’t believe the truth seems to start to leak out the sides.
McPhee on the other hand…
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Sep 30, 2009 6:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I didn’t call him a liar, but I do feel comfortable saying that he, at times, talks up his players a bit. Maybe he himself believes it. Or wants to. Flash, for example.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
by J.P. on Sep 30, 2009 7:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
As in
the “He lost 30lbs to pneumonia” in two weeks statement.
I'm trying to work out a deal with a club in Europe
by D'ohboy on Sep 30, 2009 7:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I lost 10 pounds in two weeks when I had pneumonia—but I only weighed 135 at the time, so it’s not like I had any more to lose.
by RPI93 on Sep 30, 2009 7:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I made this point in a different thread, but here it is again: it’s pretty easy to lose those first 10 or so. After that, you’re talking lean muscle, and it’s tough to lose that in two weeks. At least 30lbs worth.
I'm trying to work out a deal with a club in Europe
by D'ohboy on Sep 30, 2009 8:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And he wants other GM’s to think he believes it. No point publicly trashing a guy’s value.
If you're after gettin' the honey, then you don't go killin' all them bees.
by Fehr and Balanced on Sep 30, 2009 7:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Even were they to have traded Bourque for a 5, they’d still be guilty of “asset mismanagement” – trading a 2 for a 5 is not something you can do a whole lot of and get better…
huh??
by fat_daddyo on Sep 30, 2009 5:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You can trade a 2 for 5 a lot when your former 2’s become 5’s and your 5’s become 1’s.
One guy just drove his semi as a float. I guess semis are cool.
by zephyr on Sep 30, 2009 5:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Now we just need to see more of that “5 to 1” alchemy.
If you're after gettin' the honey, then you don't go killin' all them bees.
by Fehr and Balanced on Sep 30, 2009 5:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fives into ones makes you rich, agreed.
I was just looking at the Bourque thing in a vacuum – they were kinda screwed with that kid any which way you slice it. Bummer.
Move Nylander, and we’ll all move on.
huh??
by fat_daddyo on Sep 30, 2009 5:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Which, bt-effing-w, reminds me that the season starts tomorrow!!
huh??
by fat_daddyo on Sep 30, 2009 5:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Irrespective of where we took him, getting anything out of him beats the hell out getting nothing for him. We lost not only the pick, but all the time he was playing for Hershey developing for us for absolutely nothing.
by Knee high to a duck on Sep 30, 2009 5:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well we didn’t exactly lose that time, he helped win the Calder Cup this year.
If you're after gettin' the honey, then you don't go killin' all them bees.
by Fehr and Balanced on Sep 30, 2009 5:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rareness is somewhat relative
If you can only ice 6 d-men and you’ve got 8, they’re not exactly rare. To me, Sloan=Kronwall. Nice organizational depth. Only a desperate team is going to sign him to be an NHL defenseman. That’s sure as heck not why we picked him up.
I'm trying to work out a deal with a club in Europe
by D'ohboy on Sep 30, 2009 5:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Really? I mean, he’s a great heart-and-soul shot blocker, but that’s a pretty narrow niche. He’s got no hands and his mobility leaves so much to be desired…
by brs03 on Sep 30, 2009 5:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’d rather have Laing too, but I also see the logic in bringing both to camp and see the logic in not moving him in June.
by David M. Getz on Sep 30, 2009 5:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
But there’s really no point at which Bourque could have made this team, barring Nylander or one of the Ds other than Sloan going, Sloan not making the team, or the need to put a guy on Long-Term IR – the difference b/t Bourque’s deal and the League minimum (Laing, Kane, etc.) put them over the top.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
by J.P. on Sep 30, 2009 5:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
True – I wasn’t considering the cap ramification of a healthy Fleischmann. I concede the point.
by David M. Getz on Sep 30, 2009 6:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
But did Laing pass Bourque? I tend to doubt it – Laing was always ahead of Bourque.
No idea. Even if Laing was always ahead of Bourque I think there would be value in bringing them both to camp.
by David M. Getz on Sep 30, 2009 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Looks to me like they lined up their options thusly:
1. Nylander goes to Europe, we gain cap space, keep Bourque
2. Nylander does not go to Europe, we waive Bourque, he passes through waivers, we keep Bourque
3. We trade Bourque for marginal return, we lose Bourque, gain a late pick, not such a great deal.
4. We waive Bourque, he gets picked up, lose him for nothing.
Guess they decided to gamble…and lost.
This cap situation sucks, though. I for some stupid reason thought they had 1.8M in cap room at the moment?
huh??
by fat_daddyo on Sep 30, 2009 4:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think that’s way more thinking about Bourque than they actually did. I think it was god willing Nylander goes to Europe. If not, we’re f’ed. Then training camp kind of dicated what came next.
by Fehrskine on Sep 30, 2009 4:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Or you could waive Sloan now, and then find a taker for Bourque between now and the time Fleischmann is healthy again.
The Caps seem genuinely terrified that someone would have claimed Sloan. Personally, I find that baffling.
by bodyodor on Sep 30, 2009 4:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Or they expected Bourque to pass through.
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Sep 30, 2009 5:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If that is the case, then they’re dumber than I thought.
by bodyodor on Sep 30, 2009 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why? Because he didn’t?
There are better players than Bourque out there who didn’t get claimed.
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Sep 30, 2009 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, yeah. I would have been surprised if he did clear.
Also, “better” players is a fairly subjective thing, is it not?
by bodyodor on Sep 30, 2009 5:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
In some senses yes, but when comparing established NHL players to a guy who hasn’t been able to crack an NHL lineup in multiple tries I think it’s pretty objective.
If you're after gettin' the honey, then you don't go killin' all them bees.
by Fehr and Balanced on Sep 30, 2009 5:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bourque’s value is in the small size of his contract. IF he can be an energy line guy in the NHL, that’s valuable these days.
by Fehrskine on Sep 30, 2009 5:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The drawback to that is the small concuss he had in training camp. As an energy player, he may not be able to last physically.
LIVING IN PA IS NOT A CRIME. LIKING THE PENS OR FLYERS IS.
by Sidehillman on Sep 30, 2009 6:59 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Isn’t this his 3rd concussion? That’s a big issue at 23.
by RPI93 on Sep 30, 2009 7:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
28 teams passed on him….
Because now I can justify browsing and commenting during the work day with the argument that I am promoting my business.
by Sombrero Guy on Sep 30, 2009 5:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Isn’t the waiver ranking set by season, not postseason, rankings? That leaves a few more teams that never got to him.
by brs03 on Sep 30, 2009 5:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I believe it’s based on regular season standings, not playoff results.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
by J.P. on Sep 30, 2009 5:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
After Nov 1 (at least that is what someone else said on the last thread)
by Sct112 on Sep 30, 2009 5:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Right, but current waiver position is based on last year’s standings.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
by J.P. on Sep 30, 2009 5:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Right… thats what I said… or maybe not said but meant to say.
by Sct112 on Sep 30, 2009 5:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
ah, my mistake, thought it was like the draft order
Because now I can justify browsing and commenting during the work day with the argument that I am promoting my business.
by Sombrero Guy on Sep 30, 2009 5:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Before we get carried away about the loss of Chris Bourque
Too late.
huh??
by fat_daddyo on Sep 30, 2009 4:15 PM EDT reply actions 3 recs
Over one thousand comments in two (now three) separate threads. SBN wants more Caps on waivers, pronto.
IS PAЯTY NOW
by Your Nation's Capital on Sep 30, 2009 4:17 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I don’t think that’ll crash the servers. But Japers’ Rink must be near the contract limit now, and that expensive enforcer takes up valuable cap space.
by red army line on Oct 1, 2009 9:22 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If it wasn’t going to happen now, it was going to happen in 2-3 weeks. The Nylander Debacle won’t be fixed by that time, so keeping him with a healthy Fehr and Fleischmann just isn’t possible.
by TFG on Sep 30, 2009 4:17 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Crosby already called Bourque to tell him “my dad can beat up your dad.”
by SA-Town on Sep 30, 2009 4:18 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
For the most part, I agree
I’m probably higher on Bourque’s upside than some others. I think he acquitted himself particularly well in the Calder Cup last year. I think he possesses the three traits that often separate AAAA players from NHL players: speed, hockey smarts and defensive responsibility. He also would have brought a style of play that the Caps lack.
Be that as it may, losing him, even to the Pens, isn’t the end of the world. It sucks, in my opinion, but it’s not a tragedy by any means.
You’re completely right that this is indicative of the salary-cap clusterfuck that the Nylander contract has left us in. If Nyls doesn’t go away soon, this whole season could be in jeopardy. And that would really suck.
I'm trying to work out a deal with a club in Europe
by D'ohboy on Sep 30, 2009 4:19 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Be that as it may, losing him, even to the Pens, isn’t the end of the world. It sucks, in my opinion, but it’s not a tragedy by any means.
Dude, this is the internet. Get out of here with that perspective bull.
by David M. Getz on Sep 30, 2009 4:20 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
As JP said above, it is not necessarily the losing him, but the losing him for nothing that is a tragedy.
by ThreePingPost on Sep 30, 2009 4:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not even the losing him for no return is the tragedy (although none of this is a “tragedy”). The problem is the context that forced this move. There is a $4.875 salary cap hit attached to an unmovable player that will hanstring any move the Caps want to make this year, unless that contract is moved. It has been the 500-pound gorilla in the room for a year, and we appear no closer to dealing with it today than we were a year ago.
If I could find an NHL taker for this contract for a 2012 seventh round draft pick, I’d do it, because the contract is just dead money at this point. And that dead money is stinking up the whole room.
If you've read this far...seek help.
by ThePeerless on Sep 30, 2009 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dude, move him for future considerations, a draft pick in 2025, whatever, just move him is the big thing.
huh??
by fat_daddyo on Sep 30, 2009 4:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If I could find an NHL taker for this contract for a 2012 seventh round draft pick, I’d do it, because the contract is just dead money at this point. And that dead money is stinking up the whole room.
Hell if I were McPhee I’d pay someone to take the contract.
by David M. Getz on Sep 30, 2009 4:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is where I agree with Burke
I sure wish we could pay someone to take him off our hands.
I'm trying to work out a deal with a club in Europe
by D'ohboy on Sep 30, 2009 4:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I meant pay in terms of assets. Trade Nylander and a pick for a lower pick, something like that.
by David M. Getz on Sep 30, 2009 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Or we could toss in a prospect. Like Bouchard or Broda, or both. It would suck to lose them, but it would be better than holding onto Nyls.
I'm trying to work out a deal with a club in Europe
by D'ohboy on Sep 30, 2009 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t agree that it would suck losing either Bouchard or Broda, but do agree that if it accompanied Nyls exiting town, it’d be the best thing since California Tortilla.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
by J.P. on Sep 30, 2009 4:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bouchard, Broda and Nyls for a 3rd or 4th round pick
I’d do it. Yesterday. With honey.
(They don’t let you have bees in here.)
I'm trying to work out a deal with a club in Europe
by D'ohboy on Sep 30, 2009 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
(They don’t let you have bees in here.)
Apropos of nothing: I write this in the ‘additional comments’ box when I order pizza online.
by David M. Getz on Sep 30, 2009 4:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rec’d, even if you do mean beads.
"Hey friend, an avatar makes you more personable, friendly. Have I mentioned we serve cigars and flavored vodka?"
by Bald Pollack on Sep 30, 2009 5:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hi! I’m Michael Nylander’s contract. What’s everybody so upset about today?
by Cluster on Sep 30, 2009 4:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Can’t we just say that the Caps never had any alleged deal for Nyls? Oh they were talking to, God knows how many KHL/NHL outposts – but does anyone really believe that a deal was imminent?
I will say this: it is f’ing stunning they would call up Boyd Kane when Nyls can play. Is BB really refusing to play him under orders from GMGM? I guess if Sather can unload that gargantuan Gomez stinkeroo K, then George must think he can too.
by S h a g g y on Sep 30, 2009 4:19 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I was hoping they’d scratch Nylander and play Erskine on the wing.
by Fehrskine on Sep 30, 2009 4:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh they were talking to, God knows how many KHL/NHL outposts – but does anyone really believe that a deal was imminent?
To be fair, I don’t think anyone said a deal was imminent.
I guess if Sather can unload that gargantuan Gomez stinkeroo K, then George must think he can too.
I think the message to Nylander is pretty clear: you’re not playing here this year, period. If you want to stay and pick up checks, that’s your right. But if you want to play competitive hockey it’s going to be somewhere else.
by David M. Getz on Sep 30, 2009 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe we can swap him for Kostitsyn. (Ducks.)
I'm trying to work out a deal with a club in Europe
by D'ohboy on Sep 30, 2009 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Honestly
I just want a guy with the nickname “Tits” on our team.
I'm trying to work out a deal with a club in Europe
by D'ohboy on Oct 1, 2009 12:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So we can pick on him (her?) instead of Flash and others for having no balls?
by red army line on Oct 1, 2009 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That, or there is a deal somewhere in the works… still.
I doubt it.
by TFG on Sep 30, 2009 4:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
“We should know something by Tuesday” seemed like a sign that GMGM/BB/Tarik thought something was coming up quick.
If you're after gettin' the honey, then you don't go killin' all them bees.
by Fehr and Balanced on Sep 30, 2009 5:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, we did know something – that the Caps will continue to be over a barrel for the foreseeable future.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
by J.P. on Sep 30, 2009 5:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Their hands are certainly tied in regards to the cap, aren’t they?
by Moonage Daydream on Sep 30, 2009 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
More Disconcerting Still
This now makes it much clearer as to why Sloan stuck around. Boudreau made a comment to Alzner that his return to Hershey was partly cap-motivated. Sloan might be the only D-man that we can afford to keep up with the team.
Given the size of his contract, Alzner won’t be able to join the Caps unless:
A) they clear space through a trade or waivers, or
B) someone goes on LTIR.
That also sucks.
I'm trying to work out a deal with a club in Europe
by D'ohboy on Sep 30, 2009 4:28 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
You didn’t know that? Of course Sloan outplaying Alzner had nothing to do with it.
"It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees." - Delores Ibarruri
by gotsparkly on Sep 30, 2009 4:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think that I might have understood it in the short term, but it never dawned upon me that, without moving Nyls (or someone else), Alzner might NEVER be able to play for the Caps this year. I don’t know why I didn’t get it, but there it is.
I'm trying to work out a deal with a club in Europe
by D'ohboy on Sep 30, 2009 4:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
But if Alzner plays for the Caps he’s jumped at least two guys on the depth chart, and the Caps can waive those two guys and open up space for Alzner.
by David M. Getz on Sep 30, 2009 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If you waive someone, their cap number comes off the books?
huh??
by fat_daddyo on Sep 30, 2009 4:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If you then demote them or they get claimed whatever’s left to be paid out comes off.
by David M. Getz on Sep 30, 2009 4:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, yeah. Makes sense, as Bourque was waived to get under the salary cap. Duh.
huh??
by fat_daddyo on Sep 30, 2009 4:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, but the Caps also had to call someone else up to replace him, and it HAD to be someone who made less money than Bourque.
If the Caps had sent down Sloan, they would have been under the cap, and they wouldn’t not have needed to call anyone up.
by bodyodor on Sep 30, 2009 4:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Right, but
If you think there was hand-wringing about losing Bourque for nothing, what if it’s Jurcina or Morrisonn?
I'm trying to work out a deal with a club in Europe
by D'ohboy on Sep 30, 2009 4:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Who is their famous dad?
If you're after gettin' the honey, then you don't go killin' all them bees.
by Fehr and Balanced on Sep 30, 2009 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
See scenario below
I'm trying to work out a deal with a club in Europe
by D'ohboy on Sep 30, 2009 4:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Heh…well my little lightbulb went off after yours…as in my switch just got flipped.
/hangs head in embarrassment.
by Yoshietree on Sep 30, 2009 9:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I disagree. The team didn’t need to keep Sloan; they already have seven NHL defensemen. The easiest way to save money would have been to waive him.
by David M. Getz on Sep 30, 2009 4:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Scenario
Imagine something happens like last year where a bunch of D suddenly go down with short-term injuries. Alzner can’t come up, because he puts us over the cap. Sloan would have to clear waivers. Man, if you think an enemy GM wanted to fuck with us, what could be better than snatching a guy when we need him to play that night? Keeping Sloan on the roster allows us to cover down in the event that a D-man gets hurt without needing to call him or Collins through waivers.
At least, that’s how I read this.
I'm trying to work out a deal with a club in Europe
by D'ohboy on Sep 30, 2009 4:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
calling Michael Nylander to the blue line
by Fehrskine on Sep 30, 2009 4:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Kinda makes me wish we still had Feds.
I'm trying to work out a deal with a club in Europe
by D'ohboy on Sep 30, 2009 4:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And that he was willing to be a full time D. I think he could still play NHL D but his days of being an impact C are over.
If you're after gettin' the honey, then you don't go killin' all them bees.
by Fehr and Balanced on Sep 30, 2009 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
that at 39 a guy who has played C the majority of his life could just switch to D like most of us flip on a light switch is nothing short of remarkable. (yes, I miss watching him skate) He is freakishly talented.
by RedBirdie on Sep 30, 2009 9:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Truer words were never spoken
I'm trying to work out a deal with a club in Europe
by D'ohboy on Sep 30, 2009 11:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Like when CBJ snagged Dubliewycz when the NYI tried to bring him back from the KHL. Dick move.
If you're after gettin' the honey, then you don't go killin' all them bees.
by Fehr and Balanced on Sep 30, 2009 5:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Or
When we snagged Kronwall from the Leafs.
I'm trying to work out a deal with a club in Europe
by D'ohboy on Sep 30, 2009 5:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Meh, TOR didn’t really need him and they weren’t contending for anything. The thing with CBJ and NYI was dick because NYI just saw all their goalies get hurt and needed a guy that could keep them from being embarrassed while CBJ wanted to try out a new back up.
If you're after gettin' the honey, then you don't go killin' all them bees.
by Fehr and Balanced on Sep 30, 2009 5:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, probably not as bad
Still, Toronto wanted to give him a try with the big club, and we grabbed him, gave him a try, and promptly sent him to Hershey.
I'm trying to work out a deal with a club in Europe
by D'ohboy on Sep 30, 2009 5:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And he won a Cup. I say he owes us.
If you're after gettin' the honey, then you don't go killin' all them bees.
by Fehr and Balanced on Sep 30, 2009 5:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Clearly. But the closest Staff is going to get to The Cup is when he hangs out with his brother the next time he wins it.
If you're after gettin' the honey, then you don't go killin' all them bees.
by Fehr and Balanced on Sep 30, 2009 7:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
"if the Caps had wanted to keep Chris Bourque..."
Perfect summary, JP. Rec’d!
I am definitely in the “it should have been Sloan” camp, which is a completely different conversation, but I absolutely agree that, in the end, the Caps decided that Bourque wasn’t that important in the scheme of things.
by bodyodor on Sep 30, 2009 4:39 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
So I seem to have noticed a certain spike in quantity of comments as we approach hockey season…
"My face is my mask."
by jakeshapiro on Sep 30, 2009 4:59 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
The quality…not so much.
One guy just drove his semi as a float. I guess semis are cool.
by zephyr on Sep 30, 2009 5:24 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Old school!
"Hey friend, an avatar makes you more personable, friendly. Have I mentioned we serve cigars and flavored vodka?"
by Bald Pollack on Sep 30, 2009 5:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Could it just be that the Caps do not value CBo as much as the bloggers value him?
by Moonage Daydream on Sep 30, 2009 5:00 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Which bloggers value him highly?
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
by J.P. on Sep 30, 2009 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The ones that believe that losing Borque is a big loss to the team.
by Moonage Daydream on Sep 30, 2009 5:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, you shouldn’t waste your time reading their crap. :)
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
by J.P. on Sep 30, 2009 5:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
In other words, the $77,500 difference in 2009-10 salary between the two players made the difference in allowing the team to squeeze under the $56.8 million salary cap.
I’ll believe this when Don Fishman confirms it. So far, we’ve heard Tarik say this, but Tarik has a real habit of talking out his ass. Corey didn’t say this.
I think it’s much more likely that, knowing that Fehr would be back within days, the team decided to put Bourque on waivers yesterday (when many good players are floating through) rather than wait a few days (when he’d be all alone). In other words, they took an educated gamble that he’d make it through, and lost.
Why Boyd Kane? Because you need a body. Because you know he’ll pass clean through waivers. Because you know that as a veteran, he doesn’t need to be there during Hershey’s camp to get acquainted with the rest of the players. Because you won’t need someone for very long.
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Sep 30, 2009 5:01 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Per Ted, via Corey, via twitter:
cmasisak22 – Ted Leonsis says the Caps are now “something like $12,800 under the salary cap.” Lots more from 90 with Leonsis on the TWT site coming soon.
by Ames on Sep 30, 2009 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Capgeek really is pretty far off then, eh?
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Sep 30, 2009 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
After investing a decent amount in Bourque over the course of his entry-level NHL contract, having nothing to show for it at this point is disappointing.
Not correlating one to the other, but the frightening thought is that they’re going to blow half of another entry level contract on a Top 5 pick 2 years ago, but at least hopefully they’ll have figured it out by then.
"Hey friend, an avatar makes you more personable, friendly. Have I mentioned we serve cigars and flavored vodka?"
by Bald Pollack on Sep 30, 2009 5:05 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
After investing a decent amount in Bourque over the course of his entry-level NHL contract
Who cares about the sunken cost? Maybe they should have drafted someone else long ago. But the relevant question now is “What was his value to the team going forward?” The answer for ‘09-’10 was “14th forward”
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Sep 30, 2009 5:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with the economics
but not the pattern. You can’t keep doing this if you want to compete in the NHL.
I'm trying to work out a deal with a club in Europe
by D'ohboy on Sep 30, 2009 5:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think in general GMGM has had good asset management since he won the lotto. He got something for Lepisto. He got Carlson for Eminger. He got Feds for Lead-foot Ruth. Got a 2nd for Sutherby. Got Boo-eh for a 2nd. This is a blunder, but I don’t think it’s a pattern yet. (Now, how the hell he salvages Bouchard and Godfrey, I’m curious.)
If you're after gettin' the honey, then you don't go killin' all them bees.
by Fehr and Balanced on Sep 30, 2009 5:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's gonna get tougher from here out
And I’m still not ready to forgive him for the Nylander cluster—-.
I'm trying to work out a deal with a club in Europe
by D'ohboy on Sep 30, 2009 5:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Try to make enforcers out of ’em.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
by J.P. on Sep 30, 2009 5:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I can see it now
“Ok everyone, we’re gonna practice the PP now.”
“Not you Bouch and Gods. You guys are gonna spar for the rest of practice.”
I'm trying to work out a deal with a club in Europe
by D'ohboy on Sep 30, 2009 5:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed. And I think he got a 12th rounder for Sasha Pokuluk.
by Fehrskine on Sep 30, 2009 5:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Speaking of a bad investment, could the Caps demote Theo at some point and save his cap hit?
by Fehrskine on Sep 30, 2009 5:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
They could, but he’d have to pass through waivers.
by David M. Getz on Sep 30, 2009 5:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yikes, that would be ballsy. Going into the season with two rookies in net…very scary. But it would free up some cap space.
huh??
by fat_daddyo on Sep 30, 2009 5:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
But there are still plenty of veteran goalies out there (Fernandez I think being the best) that would work for half of theo’s salary. Ted has to eat the $4 mill which he wouldn’t like but it would free up space (and probably bring in a better netminder)
by Fehrskine on Sep 30, 2009 5:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m not concerned of the cost; I’m concerned that we’re going down the same road with a more valued prospect. Or two, depending on opinion.
"Hey friend, an avatar makes you more personable, friendly. Have I mentioned we serve cigars and flavored vodka?"
by Bald Pollack on Sep 30, 2009 5:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Roger you.
I'm trying to work out a deal with a club in Europe
by D'ohboy on Sep 30, 2009 5:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not from a cost perspective, from a numbers/depth perspective.
"Hey friend, an avatar makes you more personable, friendly. Have I mentioned we serve cigars and flavored vodka?"
by Bald Pollack on Sep 30, 2009 5:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Which guy(s) would that be?
If you're after gettin' the honey, then you don't go killin' all them bees.
by Fehr and Balanced on Sep 30, 2009 5:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Alzner. He’s starting year two of that deal, yes?
"Hey friend, an avatar makes you more personable, friendly. Have I mentioned we serve cigars and flavored vodka?"
by Bald Pollack on Sep 30, 2009 5:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah he is. I misread your statement. I thought you meant going down the road of sunken costs and losing them for nothing. That won’t be the case with Alzner. He may be stuck in HER for a while as GMGM tries to make some space for him on the big club, but that’s a temporary problem, IMO.
If you're after gettin' the honey, then you don't go killin' all them bees.
by Fehr and Balanced on Sep 30, 2009 5:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well yeah, it’s temporary, but the supposition that there’s a Lack of a plan B lends more credence (in my mind, anyway) to why Sloan’s up here, which is to fall on the waiver sword when the latter of Fehr/Flash return. Which is fine, but again, the latter’s done because there were too many eggs in the former.
"Hey friend, an avatar makes you more personable, friendly. Have I mentioned we serve cigars and flavored vodka?"
by Bald Pollack on Sep 30, 2009 5:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
KHAAAAAAAAN!!!
I'm trying to work out a deal with a club in Europe
by D'ohboy on Sep 30, 2009 5:15 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
If we are expressing with pictures, I prefer
If you're after gettin' the honey, then you don't go killin' all them bees.
by Fehr and Balanced on Sep 30, 2009 5:19 PM EDT up reply actions 5 recs
forgive my ignorance
but what’s this from?
I'm trying to work out a deal with a club in Europe
by D'ohboy on Sep 30, 2009 5:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Wire. Fabulous scene, one of my favorites in TV history.
by Knee high to a duck on Sep 30, 2009 5:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Great scene. Anyone that hasn’t gotten into The Wire should.
If you're after gettin' the honey, then you don't go killin' all them bees.
by Fehr and Balanced on Sep 30, 2009 5:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’d love to hear Stringer Bell’s take on the Caps current economic predicament as it relates to the salary cap.
by CP2Devil on Sep 30, 2009 5:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rec’d for the Wire. Avon wouldn’t take this @#*%.
Greatest show I’ve ever seen; also one of the hardest to get into in season 1. The season they followed the dock workers (season 2?) was phenomenal.
God kills a kitten every time Sydney Crosby whines.
by Chris meet Alex on Sep 30, 2009 6:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That’s an odd take. Almost everyone I talk to is hooked by the 3rd episode of S1 and takes a little longer to get used to S2.
If you're after gettin' the honey, then you don't go killin' all them bees.
by Fehr and Balanced on Sep 30, 2009 6:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Huh. I thought Frank Sobotka was one of the greatest characters of all time.
God kills a kitten every time Sydney Crosby whines.
by Chris meet Alex on Sep 30, 2009 6:32 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
Oh he is. I’m just saying that in my experience most people are hooked immediately to the street characters and then take a little longer to appreciate the transition to the dock characters. I didn’t think it took long to get into at all. I was hooked at “It’s America, you got’s to.”
If you're after gettin' the honey, then you don't go killin' all them bees.
by Fehr and Balanced on Sep 30, 2009 6:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i loved season 2 as well, but it is generally regarded as the weakest season by many. I am not of this opinion.
Because now I can justify browsing and commenting during the work day with the argument that I am promoting my business.
by Sombrero Guy on Sep 30, 2009 7:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
5 is the weakest hands down.
If you're after gettin' the honey, then you don't go killin' all them bees.
by Fehr and Balanced on Sep 30, 2009 7:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Careful – don’t want to be quoted out of context by the Langway lobby.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
by J.P. on Sep 30, 2009 7:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nobody can accuse me of bigotry against 5. I wear 5. Some of my best friends are 5.
If you're after gettin' the honey, then you don't go killin' all them bees.
by Fehr and Balanced on Sep 30, 2009 7:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i’ll fess to have been slow on the uptake to season 1. i relate to the wire as i would with a good book. the first few chapters are slow, but it picks up pace, and the entire experience is improved the better you know the characters. juggling the personalities when you first start can be tough. i usually tell people to give it til the 6th episode (the introduction of the wire itself). by the time you get to season 2, the characters are like old friends.
by Natty Bumppo on Sep 30, 2009 8:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I can buy that. I still watch the seasons straight through and you keep picking up subtle things that just tie together. The characters are really amazing.
If you're after gettin' the honey, then you don't go killin' all them bees.
by Fehr and Balanced on Sep 30, 2009 8:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i relate to the wire as i would with a good book
I think that has to do with the David Simon’s background as a reporter as well as other people he got involved in the series over the years like author George Pelicanos. I don’t think a series like that would ever be written by a creator who got their start as a TV writer.
by CP2Devil on Sep 30, 2009 8:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dennis Lehane represent!
"Hey friend, an avatar makes you more personable, friendly. Have I mentioned we serve cigars and flavored vodka?"
by Bald Pollack on Sep 30, 2009 8:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Greatest show I’ve ever seen
Totally agree. The acting and the quality of the writing is outstanding. No show I’ve ever watched had so many memorable characters, lines, or subplots.
by CP2Devil on Sep 30, 2009 6:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If you've read this far...seek help.
by ThePeerless on Sep 30, 2009 5:30 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Reminder: Chris Bourque is a UFA at the end of the season. Really, we’re all this upset over losing a year of an energy guy?
I’d understand this if he was really a prospect and they’d had rights to him past this year. But he was Staffan Kronwall. I just don’t see him being worth much in trade.
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Sep 30, 2009 5:06 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I think most of the people on this thread – as opposed to some others – are dismayed at the cap-space predicament the team has.
huh??
by fat_daddyo on Sep 30, 2009 5:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I can’t speak for everyone, but can say that for myself, I’m not upset at losing Bourque, I’m upset at losing him for nothing at all.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
by J.P. on Sep 30, 2009 5:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, this.
Also, the whole “you made the team… SIKE!” thing was pretty unfortunate.
by bodyodor on Sep 30, 2009 5:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed. If that doesn’t happen, this debate is 10% the size it is right now.
by David M. Getz on Sep 30, 2009 5:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Moral of the story: don’t tease the Borque lobby.
If you're after gettin' the honey, then you don't go killin' all them bees.
by Fehr and Balanced on Sep 30, 2009 5:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It’s small and scrappy!
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
by J.P. on Sep 30, 2009 5:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
But ultimately not all that valuable.
If you're after gettin' the honey, then you don't go killin' all them bees.
by Fehr and Balanced on Sep 30, 2009 5:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Now that is just gonna make some people angry, why make that dig F&B?
by Sct112 on Sep 30, 2009 5:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh man I knew I shouldn’t but I was just chuckling too hard to myself to not say it. In case it’s not clear it’s totally sarcastic. The conversation here is amazing and I wouldn’t want any of the regulars to leave, even if they chose to join the wrong diminutive-forward-lobby.
If you're after gettin' the honey, then you don't go killin' all them bees.
by Fehr and Balanced on Sep 30, 2009 5:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I got it, but the poor Bourque lobby has had a rough day…
by Sct112 on Sep 30, 2009 5:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, true. Sorry guys.
If you're after gettin' the honey, then you don't go killin' all them bees.
by Fehr and Balanced on Sep 30, 2009 5:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
give ‘em a hug and buy them a shot and all will be forgiven, I’m sure.
by RedBirdie on Sep 30, 2009 9:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Moral of the story: don’t tease the Borque lobby.
1,200 comments and counting. SBN (hearts) the Bourque lobby, and is looking at the Alzner lobby with a speculative eye…
IS PAЯTY NOW
by Your Nation's Capital on Sep 30, 2009 5:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He apparently needs 2 more years in the A to generate the required traffic.
"Hey friend, an avatar makes you more personable, friendly. Have I mentioned we serve cigars and flavored vodka?"
by Bald Pollack on Sep 30, 2009 5:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sadly, I don’t think he’ll make it.
If you're after gettin' the honey, then you don't go killin' all them bees.
by Fehr and Balanced on Sep 30, 2009 5:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
We can’t extend Nyls… yet. After this season, July 1, we can extend him. And it will be a 35+!
If you're after gettin' the honey, then you don't go killin' all them bees.
by Fehr and Balanced on Sep 30, 2009 5:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with that, but I’m guessing that GMGM truly did want to keep him. He was working on moving Nyls or Juice/Mo and when that didn’t happen the only one that he could move was Bourque.
You’ve talked about Bourque being an issue as of the Calder Cup finals. At that point I imagine that GMGM expected he would be able to free up the cap space. Wouldn’t it have sucked to get rid of Bourque for a 5th and then have been able to dump Nyls to the KHL?
by Sct112 on Sep 30, 2009 5:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wouldn’t it have sucked to get rid of Bourque for a 5th and then have been able to dump Nyls to the KHL?
Not really. Borque still isn’t that valuable. If we freed up Nyls’ cap space I’d be looking for some bigger fish.
If you're after gettin' the honey, then you don't go killin' all them bees.
by Fehr and Balanced on Sep 30, 2009 5:20 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Right. Not at all, in fact.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
by J.P. on Sep 30, 2009 5:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Apparently he isn’t worth dick.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
by J.P. on Sep 30, 2009 5:25 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Well the GMs around the league aren’t stupid, they weren’t going to trade for something they could get for free on the waiver wire. As I said above, Nyls has been their all along. GMGM has had to deal, its all of the signings this summer that have pushed them to the brink that are most frustrating to me.
by Sct112 on Sep 30, 2009 5:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
But most of them could’ve had him for free on the waiver wire and passed.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
by J.P. on Sep 30, 2009 5:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Pens finished with a high point total in the regular season, I believe in the top 10. That means at least 20 GMs passed on him before the Pens had a whack at it and claimed him.
by Knee high to a duck on Sep 30, 2009 5:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So the Caps were willing to give him up for nothing and most teams didn’t even want him for free and on a minimal K.
If you're after gettin' the honey, then you don't go killin' all them bees.
by Fehr and Balanced on Sep 30, 2009 5:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Right, I thought that there was something else being said here. GMGM wanted to keep GMGM and backed himself into a corner by signing a bunch of guys he thought he could move, but couldn’t.
by Sct112 on Sep 30, 2009 5:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh ok. I may have gotten lost. All this Porque has given me the ‘itis. I thought we were just talking about "isn’t worth dick."
If you're after gettin' the honey, then you don't go killin' all them bees.
by Fehr and Balanced on Sep 30, 2009 5:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dick who?
If you've read this far...seek help.
by ThePeerless on Sep 30, 2009 5:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
C. Normous
If you're after gettin' the honey, then you don't go killin' all them bees.
by Fehr and Balanced on Sep 30, 2009 5:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
My feelings as well.
One guy just drove his semi as a float. I guess semis are cool.
by zephyr on Sep 30, 2009 5:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I can’t speak for everyone, but can say that for myself, I’m not upset at losing Bourque, I’m upset at losing him for nothing at all.
Agreed, and also anxious about the salary cap issues, but i can’t help being irrationally pissed that a guy i want to root for is now a penguin. Wish it was some other team…
Because now I can justify browsing and commenting during the work day with the argument that I am promoting my business.
by Sombrero Guy on Sep 30, 2009 5:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
At the “Let’s Make a Deal” CapsCon panel, GMGM said the Golden Rule is to “never give away an asset for nothing”.
:: shakes head sadly ::
IS PAЯTY NOW
by Your Nation's Capital on Sep 30, 2009 5:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bwhahahahaha.
One guy just drove his semi as a float. I guess semis are cool.
by zephyr on Sep 30, 2009 5:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Damn. Kinda wish I had that quote verbatim and had thrown it in the post.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
by J.P. on Sep 30, 2009 5:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sorry, no recordey, so no verbatim. But it got a nice round of applause.
:: golf clap ::
IS PAЯTY NOW
by Your Nation's Capital on Sep 30, 2009 6:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sometimes you win (Carlson for Emmy ) & sometimes you lose. The salary cap era is a crap shoot.
LIVING IN PA IS NOT A CRIME. LIKING THE PENS OR FLYERS IS.
by Sidehillman on Sep 30, 2009 7:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
as is drafting
LIVING IN PA IS NOT A CRIME. LIKING THE PENS OR FLYERS IS.
by Sidehillman on Sep 30, 2009 7:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It’s a bit more complex than that. The effect of a good – or bad – GM can be readily apparent.
by David M. Getz on Sep 30, 2009 7:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Where do you get UFA? This is his fifth year and he’ll be 24. I thought it’s seven years or 27. (No, I didn’t click on the CBA, but I thought I looked at it a couple of days ago.)
by gfcaps fan on Sep 30, 2009 5:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Btw, CBo was voted the 25th most valuable Cap. Amazingly, the 48th most valuable player gets his roster spot, while #49 sits…
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
by J.P. on Sep 30, 2009 5:24 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Yeah I was talking about that in the Pepper post. All for naught!
One guy just drove his semi as a float. I guess semis are cool.
by zephyr on Sep 30, 2009 5:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not to take this too far off the rails, but that 2004 draft wasn’t bad as second rounds go…Dave Bolland, David Booth, Brandon Dubinsky, Alex Goligoski, David Krejci. On the other hand, the Caps are now without Bourque and without the first pick in the next round, Lepisto.
Good thing the Caps had the top pick in that draft, becuase before too long, that draft might have a product of…
Mike Green.
If you've read this far...seek help.
by ThePeerless on Sep 30, 2009 6:14 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Uh, Peerless?
Are you forgetting a certain tall, gangly defenseman with a propensity to not hit people?
I'm trying to work out a deal with a club in Europe
by D'ohboy on Sep 30, 2009 7:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If folks get their wish, he’d be on his way out, too.
If you've read this far...seek help.
by ThePeerless on Oct 1, 2009 7:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
At the end of this year, the contracts of Theodore, Pothier, Shaone Morrisonn all expire. I assume the Caps will let them all walk. So, they can bring up Alzner, Carlson, and give Semin and Backstrom the money for their new contracts. Nylander’s NMC also expires and his salary drops a bit too. (What happens if Nylander is bought out at the end of this year?)
by CapsFan75 on Sep 30, 2009 6:20 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
"Hey friend, an avatar makes you more personable, friendly. Have I mentioned we serve cigars and flavored vodka?"
by Bald Pollack on Sep 30, 2009 6:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think Clymer’s a perfect example of why you don’t buy out Nyls. Just stash him and suck it up and pay him, especially now that the team’s making money. Cap space dollars are far more valuable than salary dollars going forward (easy to say when it’s not my money, of course…).
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
by J.P. on Sep 30, 2009 6:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No NMC = Nylander can go to Hershey next year
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Sep 30, 2009 6:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Right, that’s my point – rather than buy him out and take a $1m cap hit for two years, send him down (doubtful he reports, isn’t it), and suck it up and take the $3.5m salary hit for one year and no cap hit at all.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
by J.P. on Sep 30, 2009 6:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly. Hard to see Nyls riding an AHL bus at that point in his career
Because now I can justify browsing and commenting during the work day with the argument that I am promoting my business.
by Sombrero Guy on Sep 30, 2009 7:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
There is an odd irony in all of this that points out just how important the draft is — to fans as much as the club itself — as opposed to other forms of player acquisiton. A few years back, the Caps also let a player go, if not for nothing, than for next to it in trade. He was certainly a serviceable player, if something of an underachiever, one who demonstrated he could contribute 70 or more points a year. Caps fans didn’t shed a tear at the parting, nor did they knash their teeth over the miniscule return.
But here is a player — a marginal NHL player at that — who commands all this attention, all this sympathy, and all this displeasure with the front office (a lot of it deserved for reasons that have little to do with the player).
It’s the difference between an established player brought in via trade and a prospect that was home grown.
It’s the difference between Jaromir Jagr and Chris Bourque.
If you've read this far...seek help.
by ThePeerless on Sep 30, 2009 7:33 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Too much is going on with Jagr to draw that conclusion. The guy quit on the organization. Drafted or not that would piss off a fan base. Dale Hunter and Rod Langway weren’t home grown but they will forever remain in Caps lore.
If you're after gettin' the honey, then you don't go killin' all them bees.
by Fehr and Balanced on Sep 30, 2009 7:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Only after Hunter and Langway spent a decade in Washington earning that status. Bourque had, what, less than ten games?
If you've read this far...seek help.
by ThePeerless on Oct 1, 2009 7:38 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
True. I don’t remember exactly how the fans felt when Langway and Hunter showed up so I don’t know the immediate reaction, my point was just that there are limits to how important the draft is; and that Jagr is hated not because he wasn’t drafted by the Caps, but because he was a total D-bag in a Caps jersey.
If you're after gettin' the honey, then you don't go killin' all them bees.
by Fehr and Balanced on Oct 1, 2009 1:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
and he was a d-bag in a Pens jersey before that.
by RedBirdie on Oct 1, 2009 2:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
But a winning one. Winning cures an awful lot.
by gfcaps fan on Oct 1, 2009 4:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
nearly 1400 comments in three days about Bourque, pretty amazing for a third/fourth liner
never let the truth get in the way of a good story
by toymechanic on Sep 30, 2009 7:59 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
nearly 1400 comments in three days about Bourque, pretty amazing for athird/fourthfifth liner
Fixed that for you – if he was a third/fourth liner, he’d still be here.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
by J.P. on Sep 30, 2009 8:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That edit is still pretty false though. If Laing’s a 3rd/4th liner, Bourque’s at least as much. Heck, if Sloan’s an NHLer, Bourque’s a 3rd/4th liner.
If Bourque made less than he does now, he’d still be here. He doesn’t, so he isn’t. Simple as that.
by brs03 on Sep 30, 2009 11:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If Borque makes an NHL roster, he’ll be an NHLer.
If you're after gettin' the honey, then you don't go killin' all them bees.
by Fehr and Balanced on Sep 30, 2009 11:20 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Then by default
He’s now an NHLer, since the Pens will have to hold onto him, at least for a bit.
I'm trying to work out a deal with a club in Europe
by D'ohboy on Sep 30, 2009 11:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Of course he’s an NHL’er. The Pens gave him a real number…
“12”
…not that scrubeenie “56” he was wearing here like he was going to suit up at linebacker for the Redskins.
If you've read this far...seek help.
by ThePeerless on Oct 1, 2009 7:40 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
he probably would have been a better option at LB for the deadskins than what they have now…..
by RedBirdie on Oct 1, 2009 10:28 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Isn’t it likely that the one and only reason Kane is playing is to be a human one-finger salute to Nyls? Give Nyls a sweater, and he might be arrogant enough to think that he could play himself back into a regular role. Scratching Nyls in favor of Kane is about as big an insult as could be imagined, and it makes it utterly clear that he’ll be in the stands for every game this year. It ain’t much leverage, but its all they have to try to get him to accept movement.
by Norsk4Caps on Sep 30, 2009 8:18 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
It sure looks like it. They could be banking precious cap space and suck it up and play Nyls but they won’t even give him that. Calling up a career AHLer with a fraction of the talent just to fill out a 4th line and keep you in a suit is a pretty clear message.
If you're after gettin' the honey, then you don't go killin' all them bees.
by Fehr and Balanced on Sep 30, 2009 8:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
They scratched him for Jay Beagle in the playoffs. Is this any worse?
I think they’ve made a conscious decision to move forward without Nylander, and that means no ice time.
What this whole Bourque situation points out, however, is the team is one two-week ankle sprain (assuming Fehr and Flash are still out) away from either dressing seven D or playing Nyls.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
by J.P. on Sep 30, 2009 8:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Anyone think that this might have negative effects on the team? As in, “We had to drop a kid who busted his ass to be here because of Mikey?”
Caps 'n Bears
by Bongos on Sep 30, 2009 9:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No. These guys are the only ones who know what it’s like to be in that world and I would guess most of them sympathize with Nylander.
by David M. Getz on Sep 30, 2009 9:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
In which case, seven D-men will dress.
by Norsk4Caps on Sep 30, 2009 8:27 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Thanks for the clear-headed analysis. As I said earlier, if they wanted to keep him they would have. CBo is like our Robbie Schremp – except Caps fans wanted to keep CBo.
But Brawndo's got what plants crave. It's got electrolytes.
by hotdog88gt on Sep 30, 2009 8:54 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
the only news i want to see from now on is “Nyls has been traded… along with Theo for Brent Johnson”
by hockeyman33 on Sep 30, 2009 9:02 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Johnson is injured.
Thank God next year they can send Nylander to Hershey.
huh??
by fat_daddyo on Sep 30, 2009 9:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
thats right. realistically, i dont see any team taking nyls unless they have loads of cap space. i think the only cap relief we can get is trading Mo or Juice.
by hockeyman33 on Sep 30, 2009 9:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I can’t believe that no one has realized that Chris Bourque will probably score the OT goal in game 7 of the ECF to come back and bite us in the ass. Then we will have 6000 comments about C-Bo
by sincitycapsfan on Oct 1, 2009 12:42 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I guess it’s fitting. It would be the third straight time a Cap scored against the Caps for the Pens in a playoff OT game.
If you're after gettin' the honey, then you don't go killin' all them bees.
by Fehr and Balanced on Oct 1, 2009 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It means that the Caps front office doesnt know how to use a calculator
The Caps front office just botched this. Maybe they had a solution for Nylander or maybe not – But you have to know that Bourque would put you over the cap and decide to keep someone else.
They told him he was on the team realized a few minutes later that they were $0.0775M over the $56.8M salary cap. So they had to put Bourque on waivers to call up a guy with much less (if any?) talent that makes just $77.5K less.
Or maybe they could have solved it by modifying someone elses deal this year for a little more for Cap room.
by tbowersva on Oct 1, 2009 3:50 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
modifying someone elses deal this year
You can’t, under the current CBA….maybe in the next one, though.
from the house that Red Jesus built
by bigonetimer on Oct 1, 2009 4:44 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Requiem for Chris Bourque from the (avert your eyes, RedBirdie) Washington Examiner.
A nice piece with reax from CBo and Gabby.
IS PAЯTY NOW
by Your Nation's Capital on Oct 1, 2009 11:26 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Congrats, Chris, you’re not the Penguins 13th forward. Sucktacular couple of days for him.
by RedBirdie on Oct 1, 2009 2:48 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
sorry, should be “now” instead of “not.” Spelling fail.
by RedBirdie on Oct 1, 2009 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
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Southeast Standings
| GP | W | L | OTL | PT | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
Washington
|
71 | 47 | 14 | 10 | 104 |
|
Atlanta
|
70 | 30 | 29 | 11 | 71 |
|
Tampa Bay
|
70 | 28 | 30 | 12 | 68 |
|
Florida
|
69 | 28 | 30 | 11 | 67 |
|
Carolina
|
70 | 29 | 33 | 8 | 66 |
(updated 3.19.2010 at 1:17 AM EDT)
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