Caps Waive Bourque
"Just talked to general manager George McPhee, and he confirmed that Chris Bourque was put on waivers at noon today. McPhee said the reason is the Caps needed a roster spot / salary cap space in case any player who was put on waivers from another team was someone they wanted to claim." - In The Room
over 2 years ago
J.P.
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Odd. Very. To tell a guy he’s made it and then…
That said, we are talking about a fourth-liner with limited upside here, a guy headed for waivers in a week or three anyway.
Also means the Nyls situation is not resolved.
They’re giving him a shot at the NHL rather than bury him in the AHL. Better than nothin’.
If you're after gettin' the honey, then you don't go killin' all them bees.
Unless another team claims him and sends him to their own AHL affiliate. Or is that not how it works?
by Laich It Or Lump It on Sep 29, 2009 3:13 PM EDT up reply actions
No he wouldn’t, I don’t think. After you pick a guy up on waivers there is a safe harbor period during which you can send the guy down. I don’t know if there is some exception to that early in the season but that’s how we got Kronwall back to HER after we snagged him from TOR.
If you're after gettin' the honey, then you don't go killin' all them bees.
You're both right
You have to put the player on your NHL roster immediately – which is why Kronwall played with the Caps for a few games. After that, you can send them down to the AHL without them needing to pass through waivers.
What you can’t do is grab them off waivers, then send them immediately to the AHL.
So team A claims him, puts him on the roster for two games and sends him to the minors and CBo is in the same spot he’d be in with the Caps but not on a Calder Cup contender.
If you're after gettin' the honey, then you don't go killin' all them bees.
Three teams actually bothered taking Chris Beech?
by DrinkingPartner on Sep 29, 2009 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions
They all thought he’d get to the AHL and be a stud for the farm. Nobody thought anyone else would take him so people kept taking him.
If you're after gettin' the honey, then you don't go killin' all them bees.
Ah, makes sense. Thanks all. So regardless of what happens, he starts the season in the NHL.
by Laich It Or Lump It on Sep 29, 2009 3:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Unless he gets claimed, assigned, and then passes through the second time. Fairly unlikely but not impossible.
I thought the point of letting him get claimed was to free up cap space.
by Laich It Or Lump It on Sep 29, 2009 3:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Not cap space – roster space. Bourque is only worth, what, 425k on the cap? almost nothing.
by DrinkingPartner on Sep 29, 2009 3:59 PM EDT up reply actions
eh, still. not a whole lot of space.
by DrinkingPartner on Sep 29, 2009 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Chris Bourque was placed on waivers at noon, the team has confirmed. The move could give the Caps some salary cap flexibility if the winger is claimed.
Per Tarik. That’s what I was going off of. If the only issue was roster space, why is Bourque the odd man out? Doesn’t make sense to me.
by Laich It Or Lump It on Sep 29, 2009 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions
The move could give the Caps some salary cap flexibility if the winger is claimed.
That doesn’t make sense unless the team’s going to play 11 forwards and eight defensemen. Which I guess is possible…
Yes, bit by implication, the Caps think there is someone much better they can pick up on waivers that they would then have to waive in a week or three.
Doesn’t compute – and what about all that happy horseshit about eating dinner at the Bourques Wed night in Boston?
Rings hollow.
They don’t have to immediately reassign him, if memory serves. I’m guessing the thought on this was to do it now and hopefully get it under the radar (barring Nylander, yada yada).
"Hey friend, an avatar makes you more personable, friendly. Have I mentioned we serve cigars and flavored vodka?"
by Bald Pollack on Sep 29, 2009 1:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Not cool, especially after telling the kid he would be on the team. But, business is business. However, combining this with the earlier comments about the Circles situation being resolved today leads me to believe something may have been in the works that fell through. I might be reading too much into this, though.
From TWT:
McPhee said there was a good chance this was going to an issue in a couple of weeks anyway (when Eric Fehr and/or Thomas Fleischmann return from injury).
The Caps certainly don’t want to lose Bourque, but as McPhee indicated, this roster squeeze was inevitable.
If Bourque clears now, can he be assigned to Hershey without clearing waivers in a couple weeks? I’m not sure, but I think once you clear waivers you are exempt from them for a certain amount of days/weeks.
That could be crazy-talk from me, but it would make sense if the Caps could sneak him through waivers now when a lot of guys are on the wire, rather than try it in a couple weeks (when Fehr is back) and there could be other injuries around the league that make Bourque more attractive to other teams.
Or do the Caps anticipate someone they like who’s possibly about to get on waivers? This seems unlikely to me, have to think the Caps have low waiver priority and anyone that’s an obvious waiver pickup wouldn’t even make it to them.
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*not just because we only work for 12 minutes a night
Agreed
I think this is an attempt to get him through waivers while guys like Schubert, Jones, Adam Hall and Ryan Craig are out there. Lots of teams are still paring down their own rosters right now, and probably aren’t looking to add a 3rd/4th liner. I think the fact that Aucoin and Giroux made it through indicated that most teams (other than the Isles) aren’t looking to pick people up right now.
In two weeks, when some teams (such as Colorado and Atlanta) make the inevitable decision to send some of their younger guys (Duchene/O’Reilly and Kane) back to junior and they’ve got spaces to fill, Bourque will have already cleared and they won’t be able to claim him.
by D'ohboy on Sep 29, 2009 2:01 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
If he clears and stays on the NHl roster, they have 10 NHL games or 30 days on an NHL roster (cumulative), whichever happens first, before he would have to clear waivers again, if he clears and stays on the NHL roster. Before one of those numbers is hit, he could be reassigned without having to be put on waivers again.
If he clears is assigned to Hershey and they find a way to recall him on emergency conditions (with a healthy scratch not going to happen, IMO, right now), the counter does not start while on emergency recall.
by sk84fun_dc on Sep 29, 2009 2:06 PM EDT up reply actions 9 recs
Incidentally
That’s almost exactly the number of games a kid can play before he needs to be sent back to juniors. If Bourque were sent down then, I could easily see the Avalanche picking him up after sending one of their youngsters back to juniors for more seasoning.
If he clears and stays on the NHl roster, they have 10 NHL games or 30 days on an NHL roster (cumulative), whichever happens first, before he would have to clear waivers again, if he clears and stays on the NHL roster. Before one of those numbers is hit, he could be reassigned without having to be put on waivers again.
Boom, there you go, thanks for the info. I thought I rememembered something along those lines.
Caps must be really confident that he will clear or have their eyes on someone else on the wire they like more than Bourque, otherwise it’s a headscratcher.
Pensburgh.com -- it's like the Max Talbot of blogs*
*not just because we only work for 12 minutes a night
If he clears and stays on the NHl roster, they have 10 NHL games or 30 days on an NHL roster (cumulative), whichever happens first, before he would have to clear waivers again, if he clears and stays on the NHL roster.
folks, please rec this one. It needs to be green.
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Sep 29, 2009 5:15 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
ha, typos and all….typing and posting too quickly on that one, but the typos don’t change the message :) And since some don’t understand these rules/haven’t read the CBA, to make it even clearer, what is meant by 10 games is the player involved plays in 10 games.
It’s the player plays in 10 NHL games or is on the NHL roster for 30 days (cumulative)
TEB says that Bourque will be in Boston if he clears waivers.
(Maybe he’ll in Boston if he doesn’t clear waivers, too.)
That seems unlikely, although it’s not like I’ve paid any attention to what’s going on in Boston. Just seems to me that if he’s expendable here, he’d be expendable in Boston.
I thought he meant he’ll start the season in Boston with the Caps, since they start the season there.
but also that boston might claim him. He meant it both ways.
"Baseball is drama with an endless run and an ever-changing cast." - Joe Garagiola
Chowdah Chatter - an outlet for my random thoughts and such.
Are NHL waivers like MLB waivers where you can take a player off waivers if there is a claim for them?
My theory – If you’re going to squeeze a guy through waivers, the day everyone else is making cuts is the day to do it. This is the only possible day that they might get Bourque through. Here’s hoping.
I'm so sick and tired of the refs explaining the calls like this is the NFL.
I don’t know that it’s the “only possible” day. I mean, Chris Bourque is a marginal NHL-AHL player with limited NHL upside. Those guys may get through on a given day and depending on Team X’s lineup, they may not.
Agree with this. I don’t quite get all the drama over Chris Frekkin’ Bourque? He’s not somebody I see as a key component for the club – just a guy that might hold down a spot as a bottom-6 forward, and then again might not.
huh??
See my longer comment below
But given the choice between Bourque and Flash, I’d take Bourque. Flash is too inconsistent and contributes nothing but scoring, and he doesn’t do that well enough to justify his otherwise lackluster play. His disappearing act during the playoffs was pretty much it for me.
Hmmmm. I don’t ever want to see Bourque as a second line wing, Flash’s relative weaknesses notwithstanding. Once Fehr gets back, I like him as a second liner maybe, with Laich sliding down to the third line.
I guess it boils down to this: I don’t see Chris Bourque as a potential impact player at the NHL level.
huh??
Top-2 lines
Ovie-Backstrom-Semin/Knuble
Laich-Morisson-Semin/Knuble
Please dear God, no room for flash.
Maybe not
But you’ve got to balance it out somehow. I think Sasha would be the most physical player on your hypothetical second line. Eep.
First off, just say no to the Care Bears.
Secondly, I like Laich better on the third line. Laich – Stecks – Clark is a killer third line – they’ll score some, pound a lot of opponents into the glass, and wear the crap out of you in their 15 minutes a night.
As for the second line wing, again, it just ain’t Bourque; Flash scores enough for me to run him out there; Fehr has enough potential for me to give him a shot.
huh??
I don’t think he was doing much else.
by DrinkingPartner on Sep 29, 2009 4:35 PM EDT up reply actions
I hope that Knubles takes Fehr under his wing – just imagine what Fehr could turn into…
by DrinkingPartner on Sep 29, 2009 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, Fehr would have to have the wheels to get there in time to do something positive, and also to get back up the ice on D, but assuming he’s improved his skating, the possibilities do look gratifying, I agree.
huh??
He’s got the makings for it, though. And Knuble can only be a good influence on him.
by DrinkingPartner on Sep 29, 2009 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m actually with D’ohboy on this one. Every once in a while the stars align for someone and they just have a great year that isn’t representative of their normal performance. D’ohboy thinks he found a good tell and he’s pretty consistent about using it accurately. I haven’t done any research to counter his argument but when he points to the anomalous shooting % it usually does correspond to a guy who had a great year that they couldn’t follow up.
If you're after gettin' the honey, then you don't go killin' all them bees.
I’m not Flash supporter, but people said the same thing about Laich after he signed his contract. That he wouldn’t put up 20+ again because his shooting percentage was higher than hell when he did it the first time. He found a way.
It’s a weird stat.
It is a weird stat but I don’t remember anyone saying that about Laich. I also think Laich brings a lot of things that Flash doesn’t, as has been pointed out repeatedly in this thread.
If you're after gettin' the honey, then you don't go killin' all them bees.
Depends on the guy and his style
For example, Holmstrom and Knuble put up consistently high shooting percentages (16+ and 14+, respectively). It’s because they take all of their shots within about 5 feet of the net. Plus, scoring a lot off of deflections really helps out here, since if the shot misses, you didn’t take it.
Given Laich’s Baker→Bread: Net→Goal comments, he at least sees himself in the same role.
I'm trying to work out a deal with a club in Europe
So let's look at it...
Ovechkin – Backstrom – Knuble (thumbs way up)
Fehr – Morrison – Semin (if Fehr goes to the net, big thumbs up)
Laich – Stecks – Clard (can’t tell you how much I like this 3rd line)
Laing – Gordo – Brads (pretty damned good 4th line)
Oh, my, yes. The third line would be a decent second line for a bunch of teams…
huh??
I agree with those who say that this is just a way of sneaking Bourque through waivers now instead of in 2-3 weeks where he might well get grabbed. Corey’s teeets say that as long as he clears, he’ll still be with the Caps on Thursday.
Seems hinky and a bit rude on the surface, but never play poker with George McPhee.
"It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees." - Delores Ibarruri
by gotsparkly on Sep 29, 2009 2:34 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
hehehe you said Corey’s teeets (snicker)
by SethB on Sep 29, 2009 2:37 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
hinky and rude is an understatement… “If he’s not cleared he’ll be in Boston.” I just think it’s a load of bull. Politics and business are one thing, being a dick to your team is another. It isn’t just about the paycheck for these guys. Would you bust your butt for a team that doesn’t appear to be loyal to its players? Oli, Nyls, now C-Bo… I honestly don’t see him clearing at all. He might just be a 4th liner for us, but he could fill in a 3rd line spot somewhere else. He is a young, ballsy, capable player, and it’s a stupid gamble in my worthless opinion.
Caps 'n Bears
What sucks about politics is when it comes to paychecks and business, that’s why GMGM gets paid. That’s why Coach John Thompson calls him the Undertaker.
I'm so sick and tired of the refs explaining the calls like this is the NFL.
i thought he was ‘The Undertaker’ because of his radiant personality and always running mouth with a smile (no, not talking about Vinny).
Unh-uh. I don’t think it’s a lack of loyalty, if you dig below the surface. They’d have to waive and send him down when Fehr is ready, and Bourque knew that based on yesterday’s stories in the Post. By waiving him now, they’re giving him a better shot to stick with the Caps than he’d get in 2-3 weeks.
If Bourque goes to Hershey, then I’ll be upset. If he’s snuck through waivers and remains on the roster as I expect, I’ll be fine with it.
"It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees." - Delores Ibarruri
by gotsparkly on Sep 29, 2009 2:56 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
That’s good, no? It means there’s one more roster spot being taken up for an awful team that could have been used on CBo.
Would you bust your butt for a team that doesn’t appear to be loyal to its players? Oli, Nyls, now C-Bo
Really? Oli is the only one that has a marginal claim that he got fucked by the organization, and he was playing pretty poorly when that happened; and was flat outplayed when Huet came in. Nyls can’t play for BB, and CBo is a marginal NHLer. How far does loyalty go? Do you hurt the on ice product to assuage a guy’s feelings?
If you're after gettin' the honey, then you don't go killin' all them bees.
by Rob Parker on Sep 29, 2009 3:12 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Speaking as an athelete, to a degree, yes. A team doesn’t work when it’s emotions aren’t in line. The thought “if him, maybe me” is a serious issue that works both ways. It can either push a guy to be better, or completely shatter a team… again, my opinion is worthless in the long run.
Caps 'n Bears
I think you think the guys are way more sensitive than they actually are.
If you're after gettin' the honey, then you don't go killin' all them bees.
I know I’ve argued the personal feelings angle before, but I’m with F&B here: they’re professionals – they’ll act like it.
by DrinkingPartner on Sep 29, 2009 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions
I hope (know) they will, but it’s a dangerous animal. That’s all I’m saying. Busting your ass and body all day takes a mental toll too.
Caps 'n Bears
You’re also assuming that the organization hasn’t explained to Bourque why he’s being put on waivers after making the team (which is a pretty big assumption, considering that he could be with a new team tomorrow).
As someone else mentioned, Bourque’s the son of a former NHLer and probably understands his own tenious position on the roster as well as paperwork moves that, in reality, are designed to keep him there.
Busting your ass and body all day takes a mental toll too.
Yeah, in a job where the minimum salary is $400,000.
Shh, you’re invalidating my snark!
by David Getz on Sep 29, 2009 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Min salary in MLS in $11,000 IIRC. Beckham makes $50 (including endorsements) million.
by red army line on Sep 29, 2009 4:51 PM EDT up reply actions
You know what they say… douche-baggery PAYS STRAIGHT CASH, HOMEY. Oh, OK, he’s a pretty decent soccer player (or was recently enough to have landed that abomination of a contract).
"I am... *grins* ... 'Nobody' "
- Odysseus
by war_capitals on Sep 30, 2009 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Agreed, and if ever there were a system that will make guys bust their ass, it’s a meritocracy like BB runs (exception: Fleischmann).
I don’t know where this mindset of Flash not busting his ass comes from – I always have seen it. Just since his bout with pneumonia and before he put on extra weight, he was always getting put down on it while he tried.
I'm so sick and tired of the refs explaining the calls like this is the NFL.
What I was trying to say is that Flash seems to get lots of ice time no matter how long it’s been since he produced, moreso than any other player. I didn’t mean to imply he wasn’t trying. I think BB has done a good job of rewarding guys that produce and not rewarding the guys that don’t, but Flash doesn’t quite fit that trend in my mind.
That said, I think Flash is a decent player and I agree with your point below that he should be in the lineup over CBo, though I am interested in seeing what CBo can do.
Would you bust your butt for a team that doesn’t appear to be loyal to its players? Oli, Nyls, now C-Bo
That’s silly. Kolzig has no interest in being a backup and left. Nylander played himself out of a spot. Bourque’s still going to be on the team if he’s unclaimed, but he’s also behind Fehr and Fleischmann on the depth chart. None of those have anything to do with a lack of loyalty.
Nylander just had a bad shoulder at the absolute worst possible time for himself. The team took off right when he went down with injury. Made people think we sorta don’t need him.
My first thought was the whole “sneaking him down” theory, but I simply don’t see Bourque clearing. Maybe I’m not giving McPhee enough credit… Maybe he perfectly timed this to ensure that no one picks him up, but I just don’t see it happening. It’s been nice knowing you, Chris.
A couple of odd things (setting aside the fact the “dinner at your dad’s house” tease):
1. So, GMGM is apparently suggesting to Corey that they expect a player that the Caps covet might get placed on waivers, which justifies potentially losing Bourque or, at the very least, relegating him to Hershey for the season. Really? Or maybe the Caps have some inside knowledge here? Playing a hunch?
2. The Caps expose Bourque when they still are carrying 8 defensemen, including a guy who has been a career minor leaguer and would very likely clear waivers (and if he didn’t, it’s not like the Caps don’t have redundant parts who could easily replace him).
3. As much as I love the guy, I’m surprised that Bourque is below Laing on the depth chart. I’m pretty sure Laing could pass through waivers with no trouble at pretty much any point in the season.
Poor asset management, guys.
Does Laing make less than Bourque?
I'm so sick and tired of the refs explaining the calls like this is the NFL.
Of the top of my head, I’ll guess that they both make so little that there’s no meaningful difference.
That was my first thought as well, but I’m curious at this point. (cue to NHL Salary Cap page that’s linked somewhere on the site but SB Nation makes the page so busy I never remember where it is).
I'm so sick and tired of the refs explaining the calls like this is the NFL.
laing brings something different then Cbo… Cbo is more easily replaced by fehr and flash because he’s more offensive, and Laing is defensive… at least thats what I’m assuming..
This is definitely a reasonable distinction, but what of it? Bourque is an asset that teams might actually want to claim for their NHL rosters. Laing, as much as I love him, is just another grinder to most NHL teams.
Also, the Caps are carrying 8 defensemen! How does Sloan make the cut above Bourque?
Laing has a clearly defined role on the Caps—PK specialist and pure defensive player. Bourque does not, and he’s not an elite prospect. That’s a distinction that every GM in the league uses to determine who stays on the team.
Sloan stays on the team because there aren’t two injured blueliners due back soon to replace him.
People can be mad, or upset, because of how it seems Bourque is being treated, but at the end of the day, I’d be MORE mad if GMGM isn’t looking in the mirror and saying “Have I done all I can possibly do to improve this team today.” And if this is a chance to bring in someone who improves the team, I say go for it.
I'm so sick and tired of the refs explaining the calls like this is the NFL.
by Whiter Mage on Sep 29, 2009 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Agreed, and I think the Caps knew they were doing this when they decided to keep CBo up, and I bet they told him about this when they told him he made the team, too. Let’s wait for him to get claimed before getting too upset. Right now this just seems like smart roster management.
Agreed. And if he picks up another ‘skill’ guy I might tear out my eyes. His energy and tenacity are something we desperately need. Honestly, I would dress him over Flash… yeah yeah, where are the stats to back it up.
Caps 'n Bears
While you’re tearing your eyes out, look at the teams who are the most successful. People say that we model the Detroit Red Wings, but I’ve seen other teams do this as well. They routinely have room to pick up free agents and then make the right trade. Why? Because they don’t have an albatross hanging over their head, but also because they know when to fish or cut bait with prospects. Our system is teeming with potential talent, yes. But at some point you have to trim the fat. I’m not saying that Bourque doesn’t deserve to be in Washington. I even want him here. But as mentioned before, this conversation would have happened today, or two weeks from now, and let’s be honest, he’s not clearing waivers two weeks from now. He might today, he won’t then.
Look in other sports. I hate comparing this, but the New England Patriots have basically tossed aside players who didn’t just have talent, they were cornerstones to championships. They’re still contenders, because they know when it’s time to cut bait. This is maybe the first time we’ve seen McPhee try and do this, and he may fail. He may do it with the wrong guy. But I’m buying into this, because at worst, we lose a player who has high potential, but certainly wasn’t exactly an important cog in Washington last year.
I'm so sick and tired of the refs explaining the calls like this is the NFL.
But I’m buying into this, because at worst, we lose a player who has high potential
And as much as I liked the way he played, Borque’s “high potential” was what? 30 pts a year?
My thinking is he’s a guy who’s going to complement pretty much any line he plays on. ex. A Healthy Chris Clark.
I'm so sick and tired of the refs explaining the calls like this is the NFL.
I guess it depends on your perspective. Barring injuries or a trade, CBo was going to hit waivers as soon as Fehr/Flash come back at a time when there is a lot less competition. Even if Bourque gets claimed today, I think it was still the smart move. Obviously the Caps view Laing and Sloan as guys who will help the team more on the ice this year, or it would’ve been them. Maybe they’re wrong, but that’s the lens they’re looking through.
and you know, the fact is, that sometime down the line, this would’ve happened anyway.
and maybe another point too is, we always believe our own prospects are better than they actually (objectively) are. Perhaps he really will clear :D (hopefully). so let’s not worry too much about what goes on behind closed doors. as nice as it is to speculate.
by Vinn on Sep 29, 2009 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Yeah, there is definitely some debate to be had regarding whether or not Bourque will be a good NHL player, or is simply another career ’tweener.
My position is simply that the kid has done well for himself thus far in his career, and it’ll be a shame to see him get his shot with another NHL team while the Caps get nada, especially when you consider that the Caps had other options that didn’t involve losing a decent prospect for nothing.
What options were those?
"Hey friend, an avatar makes you more personable, friendly. Have I mentioned we serve cigars and flavored vodka?"
by Bald Pollack on Sep 29, 2009 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions
LTIR for Nylander with a torn contract, bruised ego, and/or lacerated fanbase?
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I’m not quite delusional enough to think that the Caps have any real plan with regard to Nylander. They’re stuck with him for the foreseeable future.
I do, personally. I’d like him to show me he’s not good enough for the system before I bench him for the season. He’s Michael-freaking-Nylander. He’s a good player, for christ’s sake.
by DrinkingPartner on Sep 29, 2009 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions
ChrisAM, are you trying to rebuild the Nylander lobby? : ]
FWIW, I’d like to see the guy get another shot if his practice habits/play warrant him a sweater. He does zilch for us in the pressbox, and playing him would serve as advertisement (and he may take a puck to the head vs. a more valuable member of the Caps).
"I am... *grins* ... 'Nobody' "
- Odysseus
by war_capitals on Sep 30, 2009 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Maybe not you, but I think a lot of people are just bitter that Sloan is in DC over Alzner. I bet if Alzner was in Sloan’s place, no one is arguing for Alzner to be sent down (even though Alzner doesn’t even have to clear waivers).
I'm so sick and tired of the refs explaining the calls like this is the NFL.
If someone gets injured, the Caps can always call someone up. And at the moment, the Caps have 2 spare defensemen on the NHL roster, so at least 2 people would have to get hurt. Finally, one of the guys they are carrying on the NHL roster is pushing 30 has spent his career in the AHL. They could send him down the Hershey with little to no risk.
And they don’t have to float them on the wire to do it.
And they can trade from that strength if they need to.
And they probably won’t need whatever Bourque will contribute defensively, so he’s going to have to tear his spleen to stay in the top 12, unless he’s a better PK guy then Laing.
"Hey friend, an avatar makes you more personable, friendly. Have I mentioned we serve cigars and flavored vodka?"
by Bald Pollack on Sep 29, 2009 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions
I have no idea what this post means.
I like Laing, but the Caps have other guys on the team that can kill penalties and play good defensive hockey.
Which explains the bang-up job they did on the PK last year.
Unless Bourque is stellar in his own end, it’s a simple, yet unfortunate choice.
"Hey friend, an avatar makes you more personable, friendly. Have I mentioned we serve cigars and flavored vodka?"
by Bald Pollack on Sep 29, 2009 3:30 PM EDT up reply actions
I guess I disagree that this is the only relevant calculation to be considered here. I figured the skill, speed, and effort that Bourque bring to the table might be worth something.
It may be, and I liked him on the 3rd line time he saw with Steckel and Fehr last year, but Clark’s clean bill of health and the near-return of Fehr leave him on the outside of the bottom 6, IMHO.
"Hey friend, an avatar makes you more personable, friendly. Have I mentioned we serve cigars and flavored vodka?"
by Bald Pollack on Sep 29, 2009 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Sloan has to clear waivers. And there are a lot of teams out there that would see him as a very cheap and attractive 6/7 D man option.
They’d have signed him already if they really thought so – they all had their chance in July.
by DrinkingPartner on Sep 29, 2009 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Training camp can change a lot of minds~
I'm so sick and tired of the refs explaining the calls like this is the NFL.
They didn't have their chance in July
The Caps had already resigned Sloan and Collins before the regular season was up. They just didn’t announce them until later.
Perhaps I am. I like both of those guys, especially Laing, but I just think they are both eminently replaceable.
He may be, but I think it’s a little too early to say for sure. This is difference between being a prospect and being a journeyman AHL veteran/NHL spare part.
GMGM and bruce are fielding the best team they can right now, so it doesn’t matter if they’re a journeyman or a prospect from their perspective. they’re going to keep the person who most helps the team and fills an immediate role.
Fair enough, but they are also risking the loss of a decent prospect who may or may not be a contributing NHL player in the short term.
I feel like keeping one’s prospects and fielding the best team don’t necessarily have to be mutually exclusive. And heck, in spite of my professed certainty that he’ll be claimed, it’s still certainly possible that Bourque clears. Here’s to hoping.
We have lots of decent prospects. And, honestly, I don’t think I’d be sad if we picked up Schubert in place of Bourque. Just sayin’, is all.
by DrinkingPartner on Sep 29, 2009 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Honestly, if Lepisto can be a top 6 guy in Phoenix (a team that has decent d-depth, actually), Sloan can be a 6/7 guy on a lot of rosters.
I'm so sick and tired of the refs explaining the calls like this is the NFL.
If there’s one thing that the Caps need, it’s more 6/7 defensemen, am I right?
by bodyodor on Sep 29, 2009 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
We’ll see what you say in December when 3 guys are down. But I still love the snark.
If you're after gettin' the honey, then you don't go killin' all them bees.
You know what else you can do?
Get an avatar. ;)
"Hey friend, an avatar makes you more personable, friendly. Have I mentioned we serve cigars and flavored vodka?"
by Bald Pollack on Sep 29, 2009 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Was waiting for that one…got one myself in a pre-emptive move.
huh??
by fat_daddyo on Sep 29, 2009 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
The joys of sweet, sweet compliance.
"Hey friend, an avatar makes you more personable, friendly. Have I mentioned we serve cigars and flavored vodka?"
by Bald Pollack on Sep 29, 2009 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Forgiven. And rec'd.
"Hey friend, an avatar makes you more personable, friendly. Have I mentioned we serve cigars and flavored vodka?"
by Bald Pollack on Sep 29, 2009 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions
When Fehr comes back, Bourque goes to the 4th line for 8 minutes a game. Kind of has him rot on the bench, no? So why not have the reassign option a little less risky now?
"Hey friend, an avatar makes you more personable, friendly. Have I mentioned we serve cigars and flavored vodka?"
by Bald Pollack on Sep 29, 2009 3:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Personally, I’d rather keep Bourque in the NHL playing limited minutes at this point in his career, rather than sending him down to play more minutes in the AHL and risk losing him via waivers. He’s proven himself at the AHL level, let him earn his lumps in the NHL.
Keep in mind, if he gets sent down, he’s more likely than not going to stay their for the rest of the regular season.
Waiver duration is 24 hours, noon to noon for those curious.
Winterion Game Studios
Visit us online at : http://winterion.com
by winterion on Sep 29, 2009 3:02 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
why are so many people so cranky about this? We all knew it would happen sooner or later when Fehr OR Flash were healthy again. Further, Laing will be sent down when Fehr AND Flash are healthy again (barring a trade or resolution to Nyls) – are you going to be just as mad then? If no, then are you mad because of CBo’s last name? Obviously, even though I like the guy too, he wasn’t one of the top 12 forwards in BB’s OR GMGM’s mind. …
I disagree with the characterization that “We all knew it would happen sooner or later.” Personally, I expected Bourque to spend the season in the NHL, with Laing and Sloan being the guys who would get moved to make room when the injured regular came back.
As Grapejoos pointed out:
“Even if Bourque gets claimed today, I think it was still the smart move. Obviously the Caps view Laing and Sloan as guys who will help the team more on the ice this year, or it would’ve been them.”
I think this is spot on.
I understand this viewpoint, and I can see how the Caps would believe this. I just disagree. I view potentially losing a reasonably good prospect for nothing as extremely poor asset management.
I view potentially losing a reasonably good prospect for nothing as extremely poor asset management.
That’s an oversimplification. With the roster limits, salary cap, waiver restrictions, etc something had to give. Even if the Capitals have to lose a prospect with decent potential it still might be their best option.
In general, yes, it’s an oversimplification. My point is that I simply can’t get behind the idea that this was best option in this specific scenario, if you consider that the Caps could easily have sent down their 8th defenseman.
If the Caps were giving up on Bourque, why not give him the Lepisto treatment? A late round pick is better than a whole lot of nothing.
My point is that I simply can’t get behind the idea that this was best option in this specific scenario, if you consider that the Caps could easily have sent down their 8th defenseman.
Then you still have the issue of what to do with him when Flash and Fehr and healthy. In the end, that’s what this move is about.
If I’m not mistaken, and it’s entirely possibly that I am in the wrong here, sending down Sloan and Laing would be sufficient, wouldn’t it?
I like those guys, especially Laing, but I don’t see them getting claimed, whereas Bourque has some value as a prospect. If you decide that, ultimately, this team is better with Laing than with Bourque, you have until Flash recovers to find a taker for him in trade.
It’s too bad we’d never be able to afford his salary in a new contract
by DrinkingPartner on Sep 29, 2009 4:37 PM EDT up reply actions
The problem I have with your scenario is your value system. Which is more valuable, bottom six winger or 6/7 defenseman. To be honest, even with our recent glut on D, I have to go with the defenseman being more valuable. Especially on a team where everyone suspects that their defense isn’t all that good, a stay at home, solid 6/7 defender is of more value.
by HateOffSeason on Sep 29, 2009 7:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Why I'm cranky
I’d prefer to have C-Bo on the roster over Flash, plain and simple. Flash’s wildly inconsistent play aggravated me last year, and his disappearing act in the playoffs was the last straw for me. He’s a couple years older than C-Bo and, quite frankly, I think he’s maxed out his potential. He’s been given every chance to play on every conceivable line combination, and he’s received an inordinate amount of power play time… And for what? ~10-20 goals and ~30-35 points. Nothing defensively, no physical play and no “energy.” If Flash isn’t scoring, he’s hurting the team every second he’s on the ice.
Given his hockey sense, his speed and his track record in Hershey, there’s every reason to believe that C-Bo could approach Flash’s numbers given the same amount of ice time and special teams time. Even if he couldn’t, though, Bourque doesn’t hurt the team when he’s not scoring. He’s feisty, he hits, he goes into corners. His speed makes him dangerous every time he’s out there. He’s the kind of player who improves his play when the pressure increases and the physical play comes to the fore. Over parts of four seasons, have we EVER been able to say that about Flash?
This team is better off with Bourque on the roster rather than Flash. That’s why I’m cranky.
by D'ohboy on Sep 29, 2009 3:24 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
I can not disagree more. Flash brings a skillset that complements him with players like Semin, like Morrison, and Ovechkin. Has he used it to his full potential yet? No. But Flash is an NHL top-6 guy. Bourque will never amount to more than a third liner, and if he does, it’ll be the same way Chris Clark did it. Has Flash produced yet? Not to what we’d have liked, but the guy is a playmaker and generates offense, and at some point, you have to think those kind of guys find the net. I can’t agree that he’s maxed his potential.
I'm so sick and tired of the refs explaining the calls like this is the NFL.
How quickly we forget last year's playoffs
Flash put up 19 goals last year, over 1/3 of which were on the league’s second-best power play. Take away his PP time and the guy is a second-liner who scores about 10 goals a year and completely and totally disappears for long stretches of the season. He’s not physical, not terribly responsible defensively, and at 25, he’s not some kid anymore.
Flash has been living off of his AHL accomplishments and his occasional displays of skill for too long. To me, his only saving grace is his cap-friendliness.
Flash gets cut slack on last season because of pneumonia. He started strong, got sick, and then was never 100%.
See Cuqui’s post~ The guy was a stud before he got pneumonia. Afterwards, he never got back into game shape. Unlike Semin, I don’t see him take a shift off, and while he isn’t a defensive player, he’s not asked to be one. The guy for his cap numbers is a steal.
I'm so sick and tired of the refs explaining the calls like this is the NFL.
Stud is a bit much
Flash was getting luckier last year – that’s all. His career-best shooting % before last year was 9%. Yes, it’s a small sample, but last year he shot 14.5%. I think he’s more likely to drop down to 10% than stay near 15. And given that he’s going to lose PP time to Knuble and Morisson, I think he’ll be lucky to break double-digits in goals.
Love the shooting % stat. You use it really well to shoot down anomalous years.
If you're after gettin' the honey, then you don't go killin' all them bees.
Using the shooting stat here is a joke though. Before last season he had 1 full season plus some change.
I think F&B knew that – I think D’ohboy missed it. But I could be wrong.
by DrinkingPartner on Sep 29, 2009 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Over 289 professional games, or about 3 seasons
So I’m including time spent in the AHL (which should help his cause, rather than hurt it) Flash averaged a little less than 11%. Do you really think his play from the first part of last season is the rule, or the exception?
Again, how much time do you expect a player to make the transition from the AHL to the NHL? I’m not saying he’s ever going to be a Semin, but I do think he has the potential to peak between 25-30 goals and 50-55 points. I don’t see Bourque ever reaching either of those numbers in the NHL.
Agree to disagree then
I think we saw Flash’s peak last year – about 20 goals and 35 points distributed in clusters throughout the season. In between the clusters, long stretches of marginal, disinterested play where Flash contributes nothing but taking up space on the ice.
Bourque, on the other hand, has yet to get any significant playing time in the NHL. Still, I’d wager that the kid’s good for 10 goals and 15 assists if given consistent 3rd-line time. Yes, statistically, that might be a bit of a drop-off from Flash, but Bourque does things other than score, and he can play on a line other than the top-two. Flash is totally useless if he’s not on a scoring line.
Heh. Agree to disagree works for me. But you still haven’t given me an answer on how quickly you expect a player to to make the transition from the AHL to the NHL. Flash put up solid numbers in the AHL and has played two full seasons in the NHL….with continued improvement over that time. I’m as frustrated as everyone else during his marginal streteches, but in the current NHL ~20 goals is still a bargain at 750k per year.
Bargains
I think that there are a large number of AAAA players in the AHL like Giroux or Aucoin who, if given enough ice time and PP time, could put up around 20 goals for the league minimum. The problem isn’t scoring, it’s what they do when they’re not scoring. That’s why guys like Lonny Bohonos and Oleg Saprykin are playing over in Europe.
Personally, I think Flash has more in common with guys like that than we’d care to admit.
I think it’s too soon to say. And I’m going to keep on asking until you answer.
How much time do you give a player to make the transition from the AHL to the NHL?
Sorry, I wasn't evading...
I’d say it differs from player to player, and I’d likely base my decisions on short-term risk vs. long-term reward. Also, I think the demonstration of progress is part of it. But for me, the big thing would be: do I see this guy developing into something I really need, and is that worth the time it takes to develop him? In the case of Flash, he’s a one-dimensional scorer who hasn’t yet scored that much in the NHL. Watching him thus far, we can see that he’s the kind of player who will utterly disappear in the playoffs. We don’t really more guys like that. I’d package him together with one of our spare defensemen for some draft picks. If we needed a fill-in at forward, I’d call up Aucoin.
If you’re looking for a precise timeline: for a forward, I’d say around 5 years in professional hockey with at least two of those in the NHL. I think that’s enough time to know what you’ve got. Not always of course (which is how you end up with guys like St. Louis), but I think that’s a ballpark figure I’m comfortable with.
I think it was growth. This is an unfair comparison, but look at Martin St. Louis – it took him just about that long to really start getting his game to NHL level. Even another year beyond that, at 26, I seem to recall, was when he really broke out. Correct me if I’m wrong.
by DrinkingPartner on Sep 29, 2009 4:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Big difference between St. Louis and Flash
St. Louis never got the kind of ice time in Calgary that Flash has received here, and certainly not the PP time. He was buried deeper than Clark on the depth chart.
Also, he was about 27 before he broke out in TB, and almost 30 when he established himself as an elite player.
I’d say that Flash has still got some development time, then, before he’s lost.
by DrinkingPartner on Sep 29, 2009 4:26 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m still not comfortable with the PP TOI comparisons. While Flash did get 2:20 per game it was extremely rare to see see him out there with the first unit and was 7th on the team (amongst forwards)…only 7 seconds more
than Nyls.
Yeah, but
Our “second unit” still boasted Ovie and Green (who typically never left the ice during a PP), and Sergei Fedorov. Not too shabby a group of linemates.
IIRC, the first unit was Backs, AO, Sems, Feds, Green.
If Feds was out there with them, it was at the tail end of his PP.
by DrinkingPartner on Sep 29, 2009 4:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Nope, not too shabby, but also not much time to work with either when the first unit spends atleast 90 seconds out ther .
I don’t see him take a shift off, and while he isn’t a defensive player, he’s not asked to be one.
He might not ‘take a shift off’ but he looks like he gets intimidated. And everyone should be a defensive player.
But I couldn’t agree more with regards to his contract. Twenty goals for 725k is a hell of a deal.
Take away his PP time and the guy is a second-liner who scores about 10 goals a year
Just for the record, take away Laich’s PP time and he has the same amount of points as Flash…in less TOI/G and 9 less games.
Laich plays physical, wins battles, wins face offs, and PKs (well).
If you're after gettin' the honey, then you don't go killin' all them bees.
Exactly
Flash doesn’t do anything but score, and he doesn’t do it frequently or consistently enough to justify his roster space.
Bourque could be an excellent energy player/pest when he’s not chipping in offensively. Plus, I think he’ll chip in more than we might imagine.
Let me see if I understand this. If you were a GM building a team today you’d take Bourque over Flash?
Yes
Unless I was absolutely and completely devoid of top-six forward talent and needed someone who could put pucks in the net, regardless of everything else.
Caps don’t seem to have that problem.
Out of curiosity, did you seen any of Hershey’s playoff run last year? I watched many of the games, and Bourque was frequently the best player on the ice at both ends of the rink.
Same for Flash when he was in Hershey. Why do you think BB likes him so much?
by DrinkingPartner on Sep 29, 2009 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions
He did have a badass playoff in 05-06
But that was 4 years ago now. Four years ago, Al Montoya looked like the next Tom Barasso.
We’ll see what Bourque does in the NHL – after all, he’ll either be here or somewhere come Thursday night, and we’ll get to see how right/wrong we were, then.
by DrinkingPartner on Sep 29, 2009 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions
I like BB’s long, fond memory, but he’s a pretty stubborn mule when it comes to Flash (though he did finally bench him the PIT series). Contract-wise, it’s SOGOTP for the kid this year with us.
from the house that Red Jesus built
by bigonetimer on Sep 29, 2009 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
And he’s even tinier and less offensively gifted (thus far) than Flash.
by DrinkingPartner on Sep 29, 2009 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Laich plays physical, wins battles, wins face offs, and PKs (well).
don’t forget screens goalies.
by Laich It Or Lump It on Sep 29, 2009 4:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Flash is a flash in the pan. I would almost view another team claiming him off waivers as an intervention to keep us from dreaming this guy is going to be some kind of 60 point top 6 guy.
I’d rather have a quality 3rd line energy guy who doesn’t get blown off his skates.
Russian Machine Never Breaks
Silly post:
Detroit gave up on him, and they’ve got a pretty good eye for talent.
Silly, but makes you think.
I’d have given up on him too for the player leading the league in points at the time.
I'm so sick and tired of the refs explaining the calls like this is the NFL.
by Whiter Mage on Sep 29, 2009 4:05 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Yep. That trade, in hindsight, a steal for the Capitals.
I'm so sick and tired of the refs explaining the calls like this is the NFL.
Um, can’t say I’d rather have Lang than Flash and the Green pick.
by DrinkingPartner on Sep 29, 2009 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeesh. Of course, I’d sign with PHX too if it meant I could play in the NHL.
by DrinkingPartner on Sep 29, 2009 4:37 PM EDT up reply actions
He was close to point-per-game before he got hurt last season. They need experienced centers in PHX like crazy, too.
huh, i think i know a team that has one who they haven’t played in awhile and dont plan to for the foreseeable futrue. Plus his contract is up next year so it’s not a long term commintement…
Trade?
Well, I’d take Peter Mueller, I guess.
by DrinkingPartner on Sep 29, 2009 4:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Agree 100%. Always been a big Lang guy myself. He was solid for Caps and only got dealt because of the rebuild not his production.
I’m liking Yotes roster more and more. Maloney has added quality vet grit and cheap scoring in Vrbata (wishes he never left for greener pastures now) and Lang. If Lombardi & Upshall can somehow keep the magic going they had at end of last season Yotes could contend again for 8th spot. Hopefully this time all the way to end of season.
We don’t need Flash to compliment AO and AS. Who did we have to go get to compliment the top line this year? Mike Knuble. Nobody will ever confuse Flash with Knuble. We talk so much about finding those “crash the net guys” to play with our snipers. Well, Flash ain’t a crash the net guy, and he’s not one of the best snipers on the team. If anything, Flash compliments (or exacerbates, depending on how you look at it) the cuteness of our skill guys. When he is with them the line is more likely to pull some dipsy doo shit on the perimeter.
If you're after gettin' the honey, then you don't go killin' all them bees.
I’d like to see Flash simply because he never seemed to bounce back fully from his bout with pneumonia mid-season. He was on a 30-goal pace at that point, if I recall correctly. Keeping Flash also is a bit of insurance given Semin’s contract situation (no I’m not saying he’s in Sasha’s league, it’s just that he’s an inexpensive scoring option at this point).
Having said that you make a lot of great points.
by cuqui on Sep 29, 2009 3:29 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
The problem with "30-goal pace"
Flash has always managed to look great for little. . . flashes here and there. If the season were a series of snapshots, he might look pretty good. But the problem with Flash is that those snapshots are few and far between and he does NOTHING to help the team in between.
Flash has always managed to look great for little. . . flashes here and there.
Again, I’ll match your hard-on against Flash with a hard-on for Flash. He put in 9 more goals last year than the season before…in fewer games. I don’t think you’ve seen enough of Flash (2 full seasons) to see his full potential. He’s never going to be in the same league with OV, Semin or Backs…but he is in the same league as a Laich-esque player.
I think the first half of his year was fluky. I think the second half was much more indicative of his actual skill level. Plus, his speed was one of his major assets. Do we really think he’s going to be all that fast after taking the summer off?
So you expect him to get pneumonia again and play some 15 pounds underweight?
by DrinkingPartner on Sep 29, 2009 3:57 PM EDT up reply actions
What was his excuse during the rest of his career then? The guy’s best season as a pro is now four years gone. He has shown an ability to score in the AHL, has had one decent year in the NHL (albeit abetted by playing on a stacked PP), and has clearly shown that he really doesn’t do much other than score sporadically.
If there were a track record of excellent play, I’d be more willing to cut him some slack. But a great AHL track record sure didn’t seem to help Alex Giroux or Keith Aucoin…
You keep bringing up track record. How quickly do you expect players to develop in the transition from AHL to NHL?
This will be Flash’s 5th year in the league. Yes, a couple of those years were not “full years,” but he’s not a rookie anymore. I’d like to believe that he’s got more in him (because that would be awesome for the Caps), but after watching him be a “talent tease” for the better part of four years, I’m done. I think he is what he is.
I’d like a full, healthy year (which is something Semin hasn’t given us, yet, either), before I judge him, finally.
by DrinkingPartner on Sep 29, 2009 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Ok
I don’t think you’re insane to hold out hope – I did too until last year’s playoffs. It was then that I realized that even if Flash puts up better regular season stats, I don’t think he’s ever going to be worth a damn in the playoffs given his style of play.
...
but it is insane to even equate Flash with Semin at all.
If you're after gettin' the honey, then you don't go killin' all them bees.
The expectations are the same, is the only point I was making. They both have durability problems, and they both ought to be able to produce more than they are (and that’s simply scary in Sasha Semin’s case).
They’re the same age and they play the same position. Actually, I’d say the parallel is just about right.
by DrinkingPartner on Sep 29, 2009 10:35 PM EDT up reply actions
But one guy justifies a spot on the team if he only plays 60, one guy doesn’t. One guy is a game changer healthy, one guy isn’t.
If you're after gettin' the honey, then you don't go killin' all them bees.
Around 20 goals from anyone justifies a spot on the team.
by DrinkingPartner on Sep 30, 2009 8:57 AM EDT up reply actions
Yes, a couple of those years were not "full years,"
Oh come on. You and I both know that’s a stretch. Prior to the last two seasons he played 43 games in the league…and during both of those abbreviated appearances he was tearing up the AHL.
Like I said above
It’s fine if you disagree and want to keep waiting on Flash. Personally, I think you’ll be singing my tune later this year if he’s getting significant time on the second line and doing his best impression of Casper the Friendly Ghost again.
Is that an albino joke? That’s not very nice D’ohboy.
If you're after gettin' the honey, then you don't go killin' all them bees.
I forgot about the sensitivities of my ginger colleagues. Out of curiosity, I wonder if gingers get tans from their monitors?
I'm trying to work out a deal with a club in Europe
by D'ohboy on Sep 29, 2009 6:43 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
His career has only just started, and Flash has had a much, much better NHL career than either Aucoin or Giroux up to this point, and he’s still only 25. I don’t see why everyone thinks he’s done, already. He’s a 20 goal scorer in the NHL for 725k/year. I’d take that proven ability over an unproven C.Bo any day of the year.
by DrinkingPartner on Sep 29, 2009 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Missed the point
It’s not about relative levels of development. It’s about the fact that there are plenty of guys putting up big offensive numbers in the AHL who, given enough playing time in the NHL, could likely put up numbers approaching Flash’s from last year, at an even lower cost.
I think he’s a bargain, but there are plenty of bargains to be had if you’re willing to dumpster-dive.
And with a full, healthy year, he could approach or eclipse 30 goals, for 725k. He’s already a bargain that can only get better.
by DrinkingPartner on Sep 29, 2009 4:47 PM EDT up reply actions
And he can be replaced if he doesn’t. Win-Win.
by DrinkingPartner on Sep 29, 2009 4:47 PM EDT up reply actions
It’s not about relative levels of development.
I’d argue that with players of Flash’s caliber/talent level that’s exactly what it is.
Again, how much time do you give a player to develop before giving up on them?
If he averages 20 goals a year at that money or a little more, for as many as he wants.
by DrinkingPartner on Sep 29, 2009 4:51 PM EDT up reply actions
But that wasnt the point I was making
I’m not directly comparing Flash to Aucoin/Giroux. Their age is irrelevant. Personally, I think we know what Flash is and will be – a decent scorer who’s stats never match his skills, who contributes nothing other than offense and disappears for long stretches at a time. I think that there are plenty of players like that around the league who are available on the cheap.
The thing though is that Flash had 3 months of consistency before he was bedridden. With some good luck, we’ve seen what he can achieve, he can achieve that, again.
by DrinkingPartner on Sep 29, 2009 4:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Can you give me 5 that match his points per dollar?
Personally, I think we know what Flash is and will be – a decent scorer who’s stats never match his skills, who contributes nothing other than offense and disappears for long stretches at a time.
I guess the point I’ve been trying to make is that he has 2 full seasons under his belt now. To me that seems to quick to give up on a player that has his potential.
I'd take the over on Aucoin
Seriously, give Keith Aucoin Flash’s ice time from last year and I’d wager that he’d match his stat line.
Not the scoring part. Though I’m with you on the rest. I’ve seen about enough of Flash & Fehr. Flash’s inability to deal with physical play is my biggest concern. It renders him practically useless in the post season.
Fehr is opposite. He’s become a physical guy but his scoring abilities are much more limited than many myself included assumed.
I don’t see either staying a Cap beyond this season barring tremendous performance jump.
Fehr is opposite. He’s become a physical guy but his scoring abilities are much more limited than many myself included assumed.
You can’t fault Fehr for his lack of ice time.
There’s a stat line I’ve seen posted that has Fehr as one of our more productive forwards when looking at points vs TOI. Someone should dig that up for us all to ponder.
How many of those points happened during his hot streak. I want to see it consistently.
I know we can go round and round about this, but I’m squarely in BB’s corner on Fehr. Until I see offensive touch consistently I’m not giving tons of ice time.
That’s silly. Who scores consistently with fourth line minutes and teammates and no powerplay time?
He’s shown he has the ability to score and we’re not going to know how he’d do with top six minutes unless he gets them.
I think lack of ice time is directly related to his production. He got the most ice time if I recall correctly when he went on that one goal scoring streak. It seemed to stop when teams realized what I already did. He’s going to go glove side with a wrister. If he doesn’t expand his offensive arsenal then I don’t see a reason to put him on ice more.
I think lack of ice time is directly related to his production.
It’s not. Even strength he scored and has points more often than any forward other than the Alexes. And he played against good competition. And he played with bad teammates.
He got the most ice time if I recall correctly when he went on that one goal scoring streak.
Thirteen games, seven goals, twelve points, 10:44 a game. Season as a whole, 11:16 a game.
Does anyone really believe there EVER was a Nylander deal in the making. Hell no. This was contrived and pitched as possibility from the get go. I’m sure Chris knew every option. His mom and HOF dad didn’t raise no dummy.
Hell – this may have been done as a sign of respect to him so he can land on another squad – being waived by the Caps may mean something more than to be castoff of the Coyotes or Bolts – no disrespect to those clubs. Okay, lots of disrespect to the Bolts!!!
I suspect it may have been a device to put pressure on Nyls. The Caps didn’t make Omsk say they were interested in him (if anyone did, it was probably Jagr, but I suspect it was legit). The Caps would love it if Nyls went to Europe. The problem is that Nyls doesn’t want to and has a bargained-for right to rot in the press box in DC and collect his money, and it doesn’t look like he’s going to cave.
If I were Nyls, I wouldn’t cave either.
Europe doesn’t appear they will come calling again – our best hope is a Nov/Dec deal where someone gets hurt and Nyls fits the bill. Maybe he gets Yonkman’ed in practice again – who knows?
Would you rather make 4.5 million watching hockey or 1.5 playing? No one is picking up his contract at full – they’d want a renegotiated deal.
I'm so sick and tired of the refs explaining the calls like this is the NFL.
He’s going to make the money the Caps signed him to regardless. If he gets loaned to a European club then GMGM negotiates with the club to get them to pay some of Nyls’ salary but GMGM is still on the hook for the whole salary, it’s just not on the cap. So I ask you, would you rather make 4.5 million watching hockey in America, or playing hockey in Europe?
If you're after gettin' the honey, then you don't go killin' all them bees.
if it were me, I’d rather play in Europe, and not because there’s fresh whole milk on the table in the morning.
C’monnnnnnnnn Omsk (or someone)
from the house that Red Jesus built
I do wonder if Nylander secretly hopes WSH and Avangard make a deal to get him back with Jagr.
by DrinkingPartner on Sep 29, 2009 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions
To me, it’s about professional pride: the guy has to be dying to play somewhere. KHL is the best option for a loaner—I don’t know if /how much he’d play for an SEL team, but Ice Warrior or someone more knowledgeable about that league would have a better perspective on that.
from the house that Red Jesus built
If you have 6 kids in a globally marginalized economy, I think you could answer that one yourself.
An NBA player , I forget who, was being harassed by fans and was asked by the media how he could take it, night after night. He replied, " I make $10 Million a year throwing a ball into a basket – I can put up with a lot."
As opposed to this infamous 2004 Latrell Sprewell comment:
Asked if he would play out the season and test the free-agent market, Sprewell said: ‘’Why would I want to help them win a title? They’re not doing anything for me. I’m at risk. I have a lot of risk here. I got my family to feed.‘’ Sprewell is due to make $14.6 million this year. Sprewell, 34, described the team’s latest offer, reported to be worth between $27 million and $30 million over three years, as ‘’insulting.’’
And now, he’s broke. Idiot.
another that comes to mind: marcus camby’s request for a stipend in order to manage the NBA’s recently implemented dress code.
by Natty Bumppo on Sep 29, 2009 6:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Anyone want to guess who claims Bourque on waivers? My guess is Toronto. They need offensive help bad. Maybe another 3rd line type guy doesn’t really fill that need…but an even better reason is payback for claiming Kronwall last season.
I think he’ll make it through. As I said up above, if I were another team, I’d be looking to take Schubert or Schremp (already taken, obviously) long before Bourque.
by DrinkingPartner on Sep 29, 2009 4:25 PM EDT up reply actions
I believe Kronwall was claimed while a different GM was running the show up there, though. So there might not be the harsh feelings that you’d expect.
Nah. Toronto already has a flux of prospects (Stalberg, Tlusty, Bozak..) who are hard-pressed to get a roster spot of their own, who fully deserve one IMO. Toronto won’t pick up Bourque. no room :)
Their offense isn’t that bad, it’s their defense that stunk. Their scorers are all back and they got Kessel to boot.
"Hey friend, an avatar makes you more personable, friendly. Have I mentioned we serve cigars and flavored vodka?"
by Bald Pollack on Sep 29, 2009 4:30 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m sure they’d take Sloan off our hands, though, if we waived him.
by DrinkingPartner on Sep 29, 2009 4:31 PM EDT up reply actions
There’s also a logjam on Leafs D. No way they have room for Bourque. A few teams don’t have room for CBo. Maybe Jersey?
C. Bo fits the “cheap enough” standards for Nash, though.
by DrinkingPartner on Sep 29, 2009 4:33 PM EDT up reply actions
I'd say Montreal
But he’s too tall
Your favorite meme is dead
by Edanger6 on Sep 29, 2009 4:41 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
With flash, we are the cutesy pass team, with bourque we’re more grittier. In the playoffs, I’d rather have the latter…
I don’t know if 5’8" of fury is what we needed to succeed in the playoffs last year.
by DrinkingPartner on Sep 29, 2009 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions
If you’re delegating Bourque to scant, 4th line duty, I doubt it makes much difference if he’s there or not.
by DrinkingPartner on Sep 29, 2009 4:38 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
5'8" is generous
Be that as it may, the Caps could’ve used an energy player at times. I’m thinking of the role that Max Talbot played for the Pens. Sometimes, Bradley fills that role, but he’s not as much of an agitator.
Sometimes, Bradley fills that role, but he’s not as much of an agitator
Bourque is more of an agitator than Bradley?
What hit are you talking about? The one that concussed him or did he throw a dirty one?
If you're after gettin' the honey, then you don't go killin' all them bees.
I think Beagle is no worse at that than Bourque – probably inherently better due to his size.
by DrinkingPartner on Sep 29, 2009 4:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Actually
I’d argue that smaller guys make better agitators. They’re more annoying.
by D'ohboy on Sep 29, 2009 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Until they sustain a concussion because someone twice their size checks them from behind.
by DrinkingPartner on Sep 29, 2009 4:44 PM EDT up reply actions
It's not the size of the dog...
I remember Scott Stevens destroying both Paul Kariya (5’9" if that) and Eric Lindros with open-ice hits at the blue line during the playoffs.
The difference? Kariya got up.
I'm trying to work out a deal with a club in Europe
I could hit Lindros and he’d fall down and suffer a concussion. And I’m 5’8" (and not Chris Bourque 5’8"……I’ve got at least an inch on the guy), 150 pounds soaking wet, and a bum knee.
Kariya had suffered a brutal concussion earlier in his career, so if you subscribe to the “one makes you infinitely more vulnerable for another” school of concussion-thought then Kariya was at least as vulnerable as Lindros.
If you're after gettin' the honey, then you don't go killin' all them bees.
There is nobody I want to punch harder than a little guy that won’t quit. Motherfuckers.
If you're after gettin' the honey, then you don't go killin' all them bees.
by Rob Parker on Sep 29, 2009 6:34 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Hell yeah
Rec’d.
"Camaraderie, that's what the Washington Capitals are all about."
by CapitalCentre on Sep 29, 2009 10:30 PM EDT up reply actions
5' 8" might be generous
Be that as it may, the Caps could’ve used an energy player at times. I’m thinking of the role that Max Talbot played for the Pens. Sometimes, Bradley fills that role, but he’s not as much of an agitator.
Chris, walk without rhythm as so to prevent attracting the waddle-bird. If all is well, you’ll be in Caps white on Thursday and Fehr will swap with you while you have a free pass down (and back up, incidentally.)
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by winterion on Sep 29, 2009 5:58 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Ted was right
This just in: There is nothing, NOTHING about Chris Bourque that merits 381 comments.
At the CapsCon Ted said that DC is now a hockey town… 381 on CBo = proof.
by TylerG on Sep 29, 2009 6:09 PM EDT reply actions 8 recs
McPhee was just on NHL Home Ice on XM. They didn’t ask him about Bourque at all, shocker. Pretty sure us Caps fans are the only people that think this is a big deal, or any kind of deal.
The interview was pretty standard. “Jose is good, we like our goalies, Knuble and Morrison are upgrades, we will be better because we’re more experienced.” He did say that they’re still talking to Euro teams about Nylander, though. And that Nylander is interested in some of them.
Chris Bourque was placed on waivers earlier today because of salary-cap concerns, I’m told.
Bourque likely wouldn’t have been waived had the Caps managed to move Michael Nylander as they had hoped. But that hasn’t happened, and so the Caps must absorb his $4.875 million cap hit — for now.
Because Nylander was not waived by noon, it’s expected he’ll be on the opening-night roster when it’s submitted at 3 p.m. Wednesday.
“We’ll see,” GM George McPhee said of Nylander, who has two years remaining on his contract but has fallen out of favor with the coaching staff and management. “We’re still working on things.”
If Bourque is claimed, the Caps will not receive any compensation. If he clears, it’s possible he could be assigned to Hershey of the American Hockey League and Nylander could be in the lineup for the opener Thursday in Boston because of the injuries to Tomas Fleischmann and Eric Fehr.
IS PAЯTY NOW
The Penguins cut all of their bubble forwards, they’re down to just 12 now.
They’ve already looked out of the organization to sign Martin Skoula today…
Just sayin…..
Pensburgh.com -- it's like the Max Talbot of blogs*
*not just because we only work for 12 minutes a night
by Hooks Orpik on Sep 29, 2009 6:23 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
It's a good thing they had CapsCon last Saturday.
Ima having a few more questions for BB and GMGM now…
IS PAЯTY NOW
Just watched the vid on Tarik’s blog and it’s painful seeing Bourque and BB talk at the very end of it. My heart goes out to the kid… who happens to be my age.
Anyway.
by DrinkingPartner on Sep 29, 2009 7:07 PM EDT reply actions
This is the problem, I think — not that he was waived (although I would prefer he stay here), but that he was waived almost immediately after it was publicized that he made the team. The announcements could maybe have waited a little longer.
"Camaraderie, that's what the Washington Capitals are all about."
by CapitalCentre on Sep 30, 2009 8:49 AM EDT up reply actions
The big point here
For me anyway, is they thought they had a plan for Nylander, and now they have bubkis.
8 hours down, 16 hours to go.
/sweatingbullets
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Do you think Chris Borque is going to turn into a valuable member of an NHL team? I see him as an average third liner at best
by Moonage Daydream on Sep 29, 2009 8:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Why? He’s more than a point a game player in the highest minor professional league. Not saying you’re wrong, just want to know your reasoning.
Bourque put up 113 points in 142 AHL games from 07-09.
Joe Motzko put up 127 points in 140 AHL games from 04-06.
So maybe AHL point totals aren’t the best predictor of a player’s ceiling . . .
In All Fairness
From ’06-7 to ’08-9, he played in 218 games and scored 194 points, or .89 pts/game. In ’06, he was 20.
Motzko was 20 before he ever turned pro, and during his best 3-year run (’03-4 through ’05-6) he played in 210 games and scored 163 points, or .78 pts/game. In ’03, he was 23, or roughly the age Bourque is now.
I don’t think Bourque is the second coming of Marty St. Louis, but I do think that his lack of size has hurt him and that he deserved a chance to play in the NHL. Barring injury, I think his speed, his on-ice smarts and his hard shot give him a chance to be a good 3rd-liner who can fill in on the 2nd line in a pinch.
And I know one thing for sure, I’d rather watch him flying around out there on the ice in a #56 jersey that, quite frankly, looks like a kindergartner’s smock on him, than watch Flash’s ginger ass pull more disappearing acts than a deadbeat dad.
I'm trying to work out a deal with a club in Europe
I wonder if we’re as nervous as Chris is.
by DrinkingPartner on Sep 30, 2009 11:14 AM EDT up reply actions
I just hope he actually gets to play in the game tomorrow.
OMG the season starts tomorrow I can hardly contain my excitement.
As long as he clears, he can play tomorrow. They’ll have a 10 day window to send him down, meaning they could play Chris for a couple games.. AFAIK, that means until the 7th, meaning he could play @Boston, home against Toronto, on the road against Philadelphia, and then just stay in PA and walk over to Hershey instead of coming back with the big club, to avoid the 10 day window issue?
Or, does he still count against the cap (putting us, what, some micro-shave over the limit?) It would be a crying shame if he can’t play a game up in the town he won the Beanpot for because of cap issues.
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I think one of the issues is that Nylander is sitting in his roster spot and we can’t move him anywhere.. which I think is why Tarik is speculating that we could see Nylander in the game.
So in the end, if Chris clears waivers (25 minutes to go), he still can’t play for Washington because they’re (a) over the cap because Fehr isn’t on LTIR and (b) over the roster limit of 23 because Nylander just looks so comfy in that chair.
Mental count here, OV, Backs, Knuckles, Semin, B-Mo, Laich, Steckel, Clark, Gordon, Laing, Bradley, eight defenders, two goalies, that’s 20. Nylander is 21, Fehr is 22. So, they’ve got a roster spot right now because it’s a safe assumption Flash is going on, or is on, LTIR. Then it’s the cap room they’re short on because Fehr counts against the cap while on basic IR?
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Insane opening night postulate – fourth line of Laing – Gordon – Erskine? Bradley – Steckel – Clark on third?
Makes more sense than Nylander on the wing…?
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Or, heaven help us, they move B-Mo to wing, Nyls to second line center, and Laich down to third alongside Clark and Steckel.
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So in the end, if Chris clears waivers (25 minutes to go), he still can’t play for Washington because they’re (a) over the cap because Fehr isn’t on LTIR and (b) over the roster limit of 23 because Nylander just looks so comfy in that chair.
Fehr’s on IR, which opens a roster space but doesn’t give cap relief and the Caps can eat into the bonus cushion if they need to.
So, what you’re saying is, that Chris could still play in Boston on Thursday if he clears in the next five minutes?
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Remember the original post from Corey, way at the top of this thread?
McPhee said the reason is the Caps needed a roster spot / salary cap space in case any player who was put on waivers from another team was someone they wanted to claim.
- Flash and Fehr are on IR, so there’s no problem with roster spots.
- The team is under the cap, if they use the bonus cushion (we’ve all done that capgeek)
I think the Caps waived him now because Flash and Fehr will eventually be back, and they knew this is the best time to waive him. And also so they can claim someone if other teams are pulling the same shit right now. If I understand it right, Bourque should play if he clears.
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Sep 30, 2009 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree with this and call bullshit on the stated reason. I know it’s late and not original.
If you're after gettin' the honey, then you don't go killin' all them bees.
Is it an accurate assumption that we’ll know if he got claimed or not as soon as it happens? Just wondering when it’s safe to assume he cleared (assuming no news in the next 3 minutes).
I assume TEB or Corey will let us know. Come on, kid… clear…
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Corey’s got nothing, and he’d probably get it first. But of course the assumption is that he or even the Caps would know if it had happened.
I think we’d hear something if he got claimed; nothing doing and it’s now 12:30, so I guess the coast is clear.
"It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees." - Delores Ibarruri
445, 446, 447...
… any NHL GM who surfs over here is going to see the count on this thread and yell, “HE MUST BE A SUPERHERO! CLAIM! CLAIM! CLAIM!”
by TylerG on Sep 29, 2009 9:15 PM EDT reply actions 4 recs
If I thought NHL GMs used the Rink as a vital source of scouting info, I would have gone “TURN OUT THAT LIGHT!” WWII style on the entire thread. =)
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Yeah, that won’t tank our journalistic integrity..!!
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I'm trying to work out a deal with a club in Europe
by D'ohboy on Sep 29, 2009 11:41 PM EDT up reply actions 8 recs
If I’d ever thought that Jagr could be a LOLCat before, it was never quite like this. Well done, friend.
by DrinkingPartner on Sep 30, 2009 8:59 AM EDT up reply actions
Awesome. Rec’d!
Also, are people REALLY sore at Nylander here? Let’s get serious, guys. We all knew we’d be stuck with Nylander to start the season. Whatever happens here, it is 100% on the front office, not Nyles.
by bodyodor on Sep 30, 2009 9:39 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Sore isn’t quite the right way to put it, but I’m not happy with him. I completely accept his bargained-for right to sit in the press box and collect his money, but the fact of the matter is that at this point in time, his presence is holding the Caps back from being the best team they can be. There’s tension there and everyone knows it.
Basically, as a fan, he’s not doing everything he can do to help the team, which, in this case, would be to go play in Europe. I am sure he doesn’t feel like he owes the Caps anything (I wouldn’t if I were him), but that’s the situation and he’s the only one that can alleviate it.
They really must not have had too much confidence in Backstrom to be the star that he is now back then.
I think it’s more that they didn’t realize how good Backs really was, how hurt Nyles would become (in ‘07-’08), and also how replaceable Nyles was by players like Feds and Morrison. They thought Nyles would be an invaluable piece to get Backs comfortable and playing well, and he might’ve been, but it didn’t take long for him to become useless to the team.
by DrinkingPartner on Sep 30, 2009 10:58 AM EDT up reply actions
Agreed, but
Why the 4-year contract? 2 would have been sufficient to get Backis comfy. I know – he would’ve signed in Edmonton in that case, but would that really have been that bad a thing in hindsight?
I'm trying to work out a deal with a club in Europe
it could have taken Backs 3+ years to develop. Thank G.O.D. it didn’t.
by DrinkingPartner on Sep 30, 2009 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions
What did Gould Old Days have to do with it?
"Hey friend, an avatar makes you more personable, friendly. Have I mentioned we serve cigars and flavored vodka?"
by Bald Pollack on Sep 30, 2009 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Completely agree
I have nothing at all against Nyls. I’m still annoyed with GMGM for his contract…
I'm trying to work out a deal with a club in Europe
The hour has struck.
Now, we just wait for the confirm/deny from sources in the know, and perform my Clear Waivers Dance….
(>’.‘)> stay stay stay
stay stay stay <(’.’<)
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They’re very similar. You’ll notice both start with a right movement before going left.
Anyway, last word from TEB was that Chris was practicing (2 hours ago). Good sign.
Corey mentions the second PP unit practicing right now is Poti-Pothier, Bourque-Morrison-Knuble.
Theo announced to start 28 mins ago.
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Which makes this official…
"Hey friend, an avatar makes you more personable, friendly. Have I mentioned we serve cigars and flavored vodka?"
Bourque’s a UFA after this year, and I’m worried the Caps will lose them then. Anyone know if the team will re-sign him?
{ducks}
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Sep 30, 2009 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions
No, I don’t think the Ducks would take him.
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Least it’s only one year.
"It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees." - Delores Ibarruri
Poor kid, thinking he’d get to play in Boston and have dinner with his dad, then getting waived…
"And next year it will be ours."
At least he gets to play in Black and Gold. Yech. Such an awful taste in my mouth.
I'm trying to work out a deal with a club in Europe
Erskine at forward?
Come on.
"Hey friend, an avatar makes you more personable, friendly. Have I mentioned we serve cigars and flavored vodka?"
by Bald Pollack on Sep 30, 2009 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Can’t help but envision the scenario in which this will come back to haunt the Caps, but I generally agree that this is a little overblown.
No, you’ve got it backward. They only got Guerin because they knew the Caps wanted him and then he was the reason they won the Cup
If you're after gettin' the honey, then you don't go killin' all them bees.
by Rob Parker on Sep 30, 2009 1:04 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I’m pissed.
For right now, I hate this organization. It’s such a shitty thing for them to do.
"And next year it will be ours."
Hate is a bit strong, but I’m sure curious about another shoe dropping. Erskine at 4L makes no.sense.at.all.
from the house that Red Jesus built
by bigonetimer on Sep 30, 2009 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Per Corey, they are calling up Boyd Kane, and the difference between Kane and Bourque’s salary was the difference between being under and over the cap.
Just another reason to want Nylander gone.
Intentional or not, Michael Nylander is the reason Chris Bourque went from Washington to PIttsburgh.
This officially makes him my least favorite hockey player of all time.
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by winterion on Sep 30, 2009 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Seconded.
Had I been forced to receive his autograph I would have asked him how he felt being such a gigantic waste of space.
"And next year it will be ours."
There are still a couple guys ahead of Nylander on my list (Jagr anyone?) but this does indeed suck. The team really botched the way this was handled – did they really think Nylander would be gone? Sounds like someone screwed up the math, or something…
by grapejoos on Sep 30, 2009 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Not for me. Chris Bourque was the reason I became a Caps fan.
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Understandable, then.
Really, we’re talking about losing a guy here that was likely going back to Hershey as soon as Fehr was ready to go, so it’s not the end of the world. The personal aspect of it (and failure to get anything of value for a guy that was probably worth something and could have been packaged to alleviate the logjam at D) is the shitty part.
For me PIT is the shitty part.
If you're after gettin' the honey, then you don't go killin' all them bees.
It sure doesn’t help. But if it had been Phoenix or something, I might’ve felt even worse for Bourque. Pitt is probably right behind Boston on the list of best personal destinations for him.
If it was PHX I would have been happier. They are looking for young guys to give a chance and he’d be less likely to be buried. I’d even be happy if it was DET. I fucking hate PIT and if CBo ever does anything with them I’ll be apoplectic.
If you're after gettin' the honey, then you don't go killin' all them bees.
Lemieux is a great player. I’ve never had anything against him. I was sitting right behind the net when he scored his 500th goal (suck on that Hooks).
If you're after gettin' the honey, then you don't go killin' all them bees.
No one to blame but George McPhee
from the house that Red Jesus built
by bigonetimer on Sep 30, 2009 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions
For right now, I hate this organization. It’s such a shitty thing for them to do.
What? They can’t waive a guy?
The can
But they waived THE WRONG GUY…
Btw, this is a by-product of stockpiling prospects for so long. Get ready to have this be a yearly occurrence for the next few years.
I'm trying to work out a deal with a club in Europe
I don’t think the loss is that big with the guys who are going to come back from IR. But I also don’t see the logic in losing him to keep eight defensemen.
With Jones and Schubert out there
Do you really think Sloan wouldn’t slip through waivers? He’s a 28-year old 7/8 defenseman. Bargain contract or no, he’d have cleared.
I'm trying to work out a deal with a club in Europe
Did you really think CBo was going to get snagged? I honestly didn’t think he was going to get picked up by anyone. And in any event, GMGM knew he was going to have to do this when Fehr and Flash were healthy (notwithstanding your personal preference for CBo) so he tried to slip him through when he thought it was more likely. I still think something is in the works with our depth D so I think GMGM wanted to hold on to Sloan for options.
If you're after gettin' the honey, then you don't go killin' all them bees.
Options?
It’s not like we didn’t have two or three D-men waiting in Hershey…
Sloan’s the 5th wheel. . . on a bicycle.
I'm trying to work out a deal with a club in Europe
by D'ohboy on Sep 30, 2009 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Hahahaha. Great line. I’m not totally disagreeing with you but right now Sloan can give BB cheap, reliable minutes, if not spectacular. I don’t think Carlson is ready and to be honest I think Alzner has some work to do before being really trustworthy. I’d like both of them to get some huge minutes in HER for the first half of the season (potentially at the same time!). Not that I don’t think the Caps could overcome some Carlznerson growing pains, but I think depth at D is more important than depth at bottom 6 F.
If you're after gettin' the honey, then you don't go killin' all them bees.
True
You’re right, but three things still get me about this:
1) Pit. Fuck.
2) I liked Bourque as a scrappy little guy.
3) This indicates a certain lack of foresight and planning on behalf of our front office.
I'm trying to work out a deal with a club in Europe
Can’t disagree with any of that. I really think they were banking on moving Nyls and it fell through and they were left to scramble and couldn’t get a deal done to salvage any value so they had to waive him. (Although I still think the Ron Hainsey scenario may be more accurate than GMGM will admit.)
If you're after gettin' the honey, then you don't go killin' all them bees.
Why do you hate this organization? He was a marginal player at best. With another name we probably don’t even think twice about it.
If you're after gettin' the honey, then you don't go killin' all them bees.
Ok you can feel bad for him but to hate the org. (I’m sure it was hyperbole) or to consider it a shitty thing of them to do is a bit much for me. As The Greek said, “Business, always business.”
If you're after gettin' the honey, then you don't go killin' all them bees.
Wait for the playoffs
Then you’ll be down here with the rest of us in ginger hell.
I'm trying to work out a deal with a club in Europe
i.e. he has trade value? I imagine if GMGM could have gotten something of value for CBo he would have.
If you're after gettin' the honey, then you don't go killin' all them bees.
I’d like to think so, but the way this was handled makes it seem like the Caps screwed up some math and didn’t realize it at first, or something. Surely they could have gotten a 5th or later round draft pick back (or sweetened a Jurcina trade, or something).
Trade
The issue with trying to trade C-Bo is that you’re in a crappy position. Other teams know that you’ll have to put him through waivers. Why give up something if you can get it for free?
Still you’re correct, Flash probably has more trade value to other teams. Doesn’t mean I want him, though.
I'm trying to work out a deal with a club in Europe
I don’t think it’s the choice between Bourque and Fleischmann right now. It’s the choice between Bourque and seven defensemen or eight defensemen.
Short-term, yes
I don’t see the point behind keeping Sloan in the short-term. In the long-run, I’d rather have Bourque than Flash.
I'm trying to work out a deal with a club in Europe
Saw this coming the instant I heard Pittsburgh cut their 3 forwards fighting for 1 job.
Bourque’s younger than all of them and probably a better player and higher ceiling. Good depth piece.
Pensburgh.com -- it's like the Max Talbot of blogs*
*not just because we only work for 12 minutes a night
All I can really say is congrats.. and please start him as often as possible. After fighting all these years to finally get a chance to start with the big club, this was the last thing he deserved… and to compound it with a swift trip to the Baby Pens would be downright abysmal.
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We could always try to snag him back on waivers if/when he goes that way.
"And next year it will be ours."
I think the Pens will give Bourque a chance…They only have 13 forwards and one of them is Eric Godard so CBo should crack the lineup a couple of times.
But he’ll probably be playing with guys like Mike Rupp and Pascal Dupuis, so who knows if it’ll be in a good situation for him to succeed. Going back on waivers isn’t something I’d rule out.
Pensburgh.com -- it's like the Max Talbot of blogs*
*not just because we only work for 12 minutes a night
Along the same lines, guessing Crawford’s going to SWB for a year for you guys, presumably?
"Hey friend, an avatar makes you more personable, friendly. Have I mentioned we serve cigars and flavored vodka?"
by Bald Pollack on Sep 30, 2009 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions
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Southeast Standings
| GP | W | L | OTL | PT | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
Florida
|
53 | 25 | 17 | 11 | 61 |
|
Washington
|
54 | 28 | 21 | 5 | 61 |
|
Winnipeg
|
56 | 26 | 24 | 6 | 58 |
|
Tampa Bay
|
53 | 23 | 24 | 6 | 52 |
|
Carolina
|
55 | 20 | 25 | 10 | 50 |
(updated 2.10.2012 at 3:26 AM EST)
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