Tuesday Caps Clips: Boudreau Responds
by J.P. on Aug 4, 2009 7:00 AM EDT
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Your savory breakfast links:
- Bruce Boudreau disputes the "not good enough" quote that Michael Nylander attributed to him. Ball's in your court, Nyls. [Capitals Insider]
- Brendan Morrison visited Kettler last week, and sat down with Mike Vogel. Great stuff. [Caps365 (video)]
- Breaking: 23-year-old men enjoy sex. [Puck Daddy]
- Milan Jurcina was invited to Slovakia's Olympic Summer Camp, but will not attend. Related: Slovakia ain't medaling in Vancouver. [IIHF.com via CI]
- Alex Ovechkin, Alexander Semin and Simeon Varlamov have all been invited to Russia's Olympic Summer Camp later this month. Related: Russia will be medaling in Vancouver. [IIHF.com via CI]
- With the Young Guns out of the way, our "Ranking the Caps" project is getting interesting. [FanPost]
- Joe Finley's shenanigans have earned him an August 11 court date where he'll face charges of providing false information to an officer and disorderly conduct. The high point of the hearing, no doubt, will be when the judge asks to hear from the defense and Big Joe corrects him and tells him that the team has moved him to forward. [Grand Forks Herald]
- Who wins - Southeast All-Stars or Atlantic All-Stars? We'd need Cam Ward to come up real big. [PensBurgh]
- Finally, on an administrative note, you may have noticed two new buttons in "The Vault" on the left sidebar of the front page. The first of those links to our new Community Guidelines. Take a few minutes to read over them (especially the "FanPosts and FanShots: A User Guide" linked to therein) and please let us know your thoughts - our goal is to make the community work for everyone, so if you've got comments on the Guidelines, let 'em rip. The second new button is to our "Tweet Tweeters" page, which is a work in progress but we hope will be a useful aggregation of Caps tweets (especially for those of you who don't have Twitter access at work). These new pages, hopefully, will enhance your Rink experience (and thanks again, xiix, for the buttons).
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Nice work on both the guidelines and User Guide. But the larger question is why the frak do you still have Nyls cards?
"The passion of our supporters cannot be contained by clothing."
You should see my collection of Jagrs.
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what do you mean slovakia won’t have medal? in my world they’ll get silver…
might be old news here but Osala is invated to Finland’s Olympic camp
miss u, CR baby...u want 2 get back 2gether? - now with lots of Ducks love
Silver, eh? I’ve got RUS, CAN and SWE easily ahead of them, but you never know.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
Marc-Andre Fleury is better than Lundqvist? I’m not quite sold on that.
The Atlantic’s D is a whole lot better looking than the Southeast’s, but pending Taveres’ performance, the Atlantic doesn’t have a whole lot of forward past the second line. I’m not sure I could predict an outcome, but it would be entertaining either way.
Remember that the list was generated on a Pittsburgh blog.
by Moonage Daydream on Aug 4, 2009 7:58 AM EDT up reply actions
I admittedly haven’t seen Pronger play as much as I’ve seen Gonchar (East Coast bias).
There’s no doubt Pronger > Gonch at age 25, 30, 33 but they’re both 35 now….Pronger plays a game that doesn’t always age gracefully, compared to a puck moving defender.
Also, for my money the turnaround Gonchar gave the Penguins— 19 points in 25 regular season games, steadying the power-play, simply still being able to play as a #1 defenseman after tearing his MCL — is a large reason why the Pens won it all.
Just my opinion, if I Pronger blows everyone away in the East I’ll be the first to admit it and adjust rankings accordingly.
Pensburgh.com -- it's like the Max Talbot of blogs*
*not just because we only work for 12 minutes a night
Pronger plays a game that doesn’t always age gracefully, compared to a puck moving defender.
This is just wrong. Pronger is a good skater, covers tons of ice with little effort, and is widely acknowledged to be one of the best “Minutes managers” in the game (i.e. his body takes a lot less stress than you would expect out of his minutes because he knows how to coast through shifts when he can). He’s huge and dishes out punishment but you rarely see him take anyone because he is so hard to hit cleanly. He moves the puck well, shoots the puck well, plays angles well, skates well, and has a good stick (on puck and body). I don’t see what part of his game is going to (or has) decline. He’s not Derian Hatcher, he’s never relied on holding and simply overpowering guys.
Yeah, I agree Gooch gets credit for helping PIT. But Pronger carried EDM to the finals and then was instrumental in ANA winning the finals the following year (despite the suspension I don’t think ANA beats DET without Pronger). What does Gonchar bring that Pronger doesn’t? Nothing. Pronger has one of the best first passes in the game and is an elite PP QB. What does Pronger bring that Gooch doesn’t? I think everyone here can answer that question.
What does Pronger bring that Gooch doesn’t?
Suspensions?
You make some good points, even if I don’t agree with your assessment of the power-play, I think Gonchar makes better decisions with the puck in the zone. And all your flowery words for Pronger about eating up minutes, moving the puck well, skating well, playing angles, good stick can all be applied to Gonchar. Pronger’s got the menacing edge and plays physical, no doubt.
Let’s see what happens. Gonchar was a deserved Norris nominee in 2007-08 and helped his team to a Cup this year one basically one leg. Still don’t think it’s unreasonable to rank him as the top guy in the division.
Pensburgh.com -- it's like the Max Talbot of blogs*
*not just because we only work for 12 minutes a night
Pronger is much better in his own end than Gooch. Gooch has made himself a better defender than he was when he was in DC but he’s still not on Pronger’s level. Yeah, Gooch played through a knee injury, but I guarantee Pronger doesn’t even take that injury. Pronger would have gotten his hands out in front and stood up AO, instead of trying to duck it and taking the knee on knee. That one anecdote demonstrates why it’s incorrect to assume that the more physical player is going to take more punishment. Everyone talks about getting in on the forecheck and hitting Pronger, how often does it happen? Pronger actually has a Norris and a Cup. There’s nothing you can say about Gooch that doesn’t also apply to Pronger.
And all your flowery words for Pronger about eating up minutes, moving the puck well, skating well, playing angles, good stick can all be applied to Gonchar.
But Gooch just doesn’t do it as well, in all phases of the game. Pronger is a better PKer and more likely to draw the opponents top line than Gooch is 5 on 5. You have to rely on the PP to make a case for Gooch, and Pronger’s good enough on the PP that Gooch can’t make up the difference in the other aspects of their respective games.
And a Hart, fwiw
A very disputed Hart.
Pensburgh.com -- it's like the Max Talbot of blogs*
*not just because we only work for 12 minutes a night
“very disputed Hart” > never remotely in Hart consideration
Though, of course, the Hart was awarded in 2000 and things have changed since then….
True that.
I was never knocking Pronger, I was simply saying that the guy who stablized a team’s defense this year and won the Cup, while playing #1 minutes with a serious injury is worthy of being #1 in my eyes.
F&B makes good points and has a great stance of his opinion. As Peerless points out below it could be a matter of preference/necessity as to which player is favored.
Pensburgh.com -- it's like the Max Talbot of blogs*
*not just because we only work for 12 minutes a night
For you maybe, I’m sure there’s people out there who’d like to argue about it. You’d be disingenuous to say that everyone in the known universe thinks Ovie is the best player ever.
I’m sure that the year pronger won may have been more “disputed” than any AO has won, but I think you get my point.
The only question about AO winning last year was if the Caps made the playoffs. When the Caps made the playoffs I think it was pretty obvious to everyone that the 65 goal scoring Art Ross winner was going to be the Hart winner. What was the dispute? I never said AO is the best player ever. I said he was hands down the best player in the NHL in 2007-08.
Ovechkin’s 65 goal season was open and shut for the Art Ross.
Even this year’s award (which I mildly objected too) would be a slam dunk, in my opinion, compared to Jagr v. Pronger in 2000.
Jagr wins the Art Ross (despite missing almost 20 games) and drags another otherwise unworthy Penguins into the playoffs.
Pensburgh.com -- it's like the Max Talbot of blogs*
*not just because we only work for 12 minutes a night
Ovechkin’s 65 goal season was open and shut for the Art Ross.
And by “Art Ross” I mean Hart. Dummy.
Pensburgh.com -- it's like the Max Talbot of blogs*
*not just because we only work for 12 minutes a night
Pobody’s nerfect.
And yes, honestly, Jagr should have won it in 2000. Then again, I thought Ray Bourque was more deserving than Mark Messier in 1990. Things don’t always pan out right, but they do often enough that I’m willing to forgive.
My only concern with the awards was the omnipresent Canadian control of the Conn Smythe, but that’s been broken down in recent years by Zetterberg and Malkin.
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All of this is in what sort of defenseman you’re looking for. If I want, say, a puck-moving defenseman because I already have those of other varieties, I probably take Gonchar. If I want a more physical presence because I already have puck-movers, Pronger is the guy.
If I had a blank slate with no defensemen on it? I’d probably take Pronger. I’d rather have him on the ice in the last two minutes than Gonchar, but to tell the truth, I’d kind of be hoping for a third option.
If you've read this far...seek help.
I would have also paired Tims and Pronger, assuming they’d have a camp, preseason, and a half-season of synergy built up by this theoretical game’s time.
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I didn’t think to take it out that far, but yeah that is a natural and good recommendation.
Pensburgh.com -- it's like the Max Talbot of blogs*
*not just because we only work for 12 minutes a night
Even Gretz knows Pronger is better.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
So, hypothetical question...
If the sky were to fall and Ballsilie were to win the Coyotes and move them to Hamilton… What would the realignment look like?
I feel like Hamilton should move into the Northeast, but that would mean some other NE team would have to move out and another team would have to leve the Eastern Conference entirely. So, seeing as Hamilton would be the westernmost team by my calculations if they were to move into the east, I would instead keep them in the West, but move them into the central division. Either Vancouver or Colorado would move into the Pacific to take Phoenix’s place, and Chicago would move into the Northwest. I would still feel bad about splitting the Wings and Hawks up, but it’s really the only way I could see it working if they wanted to keep the divisions at 5 teams per.
Anyone else have a better scenario?
Well the Lighthouse stuff on the Island could not proceed with the FO’s liking, and you’ve got the Kansas City Islanders.
"The passion of our supporters cannot be contained by clothing."
Everything I’ve read on the subject made it seem like that was the easiest available choice. I think Wang has significant monetary pressure to stay in the area (huge TV deal IINM).
Where would they play in Queens? Wang may have monetary pressure to stay in NY but not if he doesn’t have an arena to play in.
I’ve never heard anything about that. If the Nets move a team to Queens (I don’t follow the NBA at all so I don’t know how close they are to doing this; I just know I’ve heard such rumors) then the NYI could potentially get in that arena to play. The problem then is going to be getting an acceptable lease deal, but at least there will be a modern arena in the area that can keep NYI there. For all their flaws the NYI fan base is pretty good and they deserve to have their team there.
704 Houser St.
If you've read this far...seek help.
by ThePeerless on Aug 4, 2009 9:06 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
It worked for Prince Akeem and Semmi…
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+1 for the Coming to America reference…now there’s a movie I love but probably shouldn’t. Right up there with Blazing Saddles, really (although BS is obviously a much better movie).
…right, hockey. Sorry.
Why shouldn’t you? It’s fantastic. Just let your Soul Glo, CC – it’s cool.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
I’ve got a hankerin for Mcdowell’s for lunch
Because now I can justify browsing and commenting during the work day with the argument that I am promoting my business.
by Sombrero Guy on Aug 4, 2009 10:26 AM EDT up reply actions
I don’t get why there isn’t talk of them moving to Brooklyn to share the theoretical new Nets arena. Brooklyn is still technically on Long Island, I think, and they’d be much more accessible to many more people (albeit not so many of them are members of their traditional fanbase, the Long Island Rail Road is right underneath where they’re putting the new arena).
Brooklyn is geographically on LI but nobody from either is comfortable with associating the two places. If the arena has public transportation access then it can work. I haven’t heard anything about the NYI moving in with the Nets so I don’t know if it’s a possibility.
To be clear, I haven’t heard about it either. I am just surprised there has seemingly been discussion about them (or even the Devils) sharing that building with the Nets. NYC is definitely a Rangers town, so I’m not sure if it would work…but I wouldn’t mind being able to see Tavares play in my borough.
I was looking for a different map that was posted about a year ago, and I found this. It makes a lot of sense…
by Gould Old Days on Aug 4, 2009 8:45 AM EDT up reply actions
COL and DAL may have some complaints about that alignment. But the bigger problem is 5 divisions. How do you set the playoffs?
Yup. Reading fail. 5 divisions doesn’t make much sense. (It’s 5:47 in the morning here)
by Gould Old Days on Aug 4, 2009 8:48 AM EDT up reply actions
Seeing as there’s a concentration of teams on the East coast —> Mississippi River, an extreme way to realign may be to move every team in the Pacific and Northwest to the East coast. New Orleans Avalanche anyone?
by red army line on Aug 4, 2009 9:07 AM EDT up reply actions
I don’t think it works without expansion or another team moving, and I don’t see expansion happening soon. If the NYI move to KC then it works a little easier but they need to focus on getting more teams west than east. CBJ and NAS could easily be EC teams but as is they need to play a western schedule. Ideally they’d get 4 8-team divisions together and put some of the historic rivalries back together, but I don’t expect it to happen.
Detroit’s got first right of refusal for moving into the East; I’d have to think that would apply equally for relocation or expansion.
My guess? Nashville joins the pacific, Hamilton joins the central, at least until they can muddle through the issues with who gets to move where.
I’d have to think Seattle might be a decent market for an expansion club. You could get a built-in rivalry with Vancouver/Alberta, plus there’s probably a crowd with some sore feelings about the Sonics, plus that city’s got nothing to do from the end of the Seahawks’ season to the beginning of the Sounders’ one. But I’m purely dart-throwing based on Gouldie’s map.
"The passion of our supporters cannot be contained by clothing."
I don’t think it’s much of a hockey city (IINM the T-birds don’t do so well there), and isn’t the arena not great?
If there’s expansion, KC is probably high on the list, and Vegas might be eventaully. Not sure where else.
Seattle’s lack of arena is going to be the big problem. I have no idea how they draw compared to the rest of the WHL but I know they don’t have a pro-caliber arena there.
If you build it they will come?
I’m moving to Seattle next year so I’m all for them getting a team…
The NHL is playing a pre-season game there this season so how far fetched could it be?
Who is going to build it? You think the NHL is in a hurry for another municipally-owned arena debacle? The NBA couldn’t get an arena built there, I’m not sure why you’d expect the NHL to pull it off. Aside from geography, what makes anyone think Seattle is a great hockey market? They don’t have great youth hockey, they don’t have NCAA hockey, they just have a WHL team that hasn’t really done anything. I’m not saying they don’t have a lot of hockey support, I’m just saying it’s not apparent.
DC isn’t exactly a hotbed of youth hockey either, but I’d say we do okay when it comes to being a hockey market.
"My face is my mask."
by Jake Shapiro on Aug 4, 2009 11:20 AM EDT up reply actions
OK, with some inspiration from JP’s 5 ways I’d change the NHL from last year, here’s an actually sensible division plan:
Wales Conference
Adams Division: BOS, BUF, MTL, OTT, TOR, HAM, DET
Patrick Division: CAR, CLB, NJD, NYI, NYR, PHI, PIT, WSH,
Campbell Conference
Norris Division: ATL, FLA, TBL, CHI, DAL, MIN, NSH, STL
Campbell Conference, Smythe Division: ANA, CGY, COL, EDM, LAK, SJS, VAN
by Gould Old Days on Aug 4, 2009 9:01 AM EDT up reply actions
That’s not bad… Do you keep the playoffs conference-based, or go to a top-4 from each division type thing? THough I guess that could be an unfair advantage to the 7-team divisions.
I’ve been a fan of going two conference/four divisions (like the old days) for a while. And, the first two rounds of the playoffs would be intra-divisional. Nothing builds rivalries like the good honest hatred of playoffs against your division rivals.
Or is that too easy for the NHL?
If you've read this far...seek help.
That Norris Division is a mess. I’m am strongly opposed to anything that splits DET/CHI/STL. Those teams should be in the same division.
How’s this?
Wales Conference
Adams Division: BOS, BUF, MTL, OTT, TOR, HAM, NYI, NYR
Patrick Division: ATL, CAR, NJD, PHI, WSH, FLA, TBL
Campbell Conference
Norris Division: CHI, CLB, DAL, DET, MIN, NSH, PIT, STL
Campbell Conference, Smythe Division: ANA, CGY, COL, EDM, LAK, SJS, VAN
by Gould Old Days on Aug 4, 2009 9:22 AM EDT up reply actions
Or another
Wales Conference
Adams Division: BOS, MTL, OTT, NJD, NYI, NYR, PHI, WAS
Norris Division: TOR, HAM, DET, CHI, STL, BUF, PIT
Campbell Conference
Patrick Division: ATL, CAR, FLA, TBL, DAL, NAS, COL, CLB
Smythe Division: ANA, CGY, MIN, EDM, LAK, SJS, VAN
by Gould Old Days on Aug 4, 2009 9:31 AM EDT up reply actions
PHI and PIT are split. TOR and MTL/OTT are split. I don’t think you can put 4 divisions together and keep the natural rivalries together the way the league is currently structured.
Today’s “natural rivalries” haven’t always been considered natural. Geographically, Toronto is just as “natural” a rival of Detroit as Montreal. And there’s precedent — look at the 85-86 standings:
- Prince of Wales Conference
- Adams Division
Quebec Nordiques
Montreal Canadiens
Boston Bruins
Hartford Whalers
Buffalo Sabres
- Patrick Division
Philadelphia Flyers
Washington Capitals
New York Islanders
New York Rangers
Pittsburgh Penguins
New Jersey Devils
- Clarence Campbell Conference
- Norris Division
Chicago Black Hawks
Minnesota North Stars
St. Louis Blues
Toronto Maple Leafs
Detroit Red Wings
- Smythe Division
Edmonton Oilers
Calgary Flames
Winnipeg Jets
Vancouver Canucks
Los Angeles Kings
Toronto in the Norris makes a lot of sense to me. And Hamilton and Buffalo are so close, they can join Toronto there with Detroit, Chicago and STL.
I also don’t see any problem splitting PHI and PIT. Philadelphia is much closer to the New York and New Jersey teams than to Pittsburgh. I think Pittsburgh-Detroit would be a great intra-division rivalry.
by Gould Old Days on Aug 4, 2009 11:10 AM EDT up reply actions
The previous divisions are only evidence that the NHL has messed it up before; there is nothing inherently correct about that alignment. PIT and PHI may not be close as far as miles, but the inter-PA battle is a good rivalry and the fans get into it. TOR and MON should not be broken up, it’s a historic rivalry and, again, the fans really get into it. I think the NE Canadian teams (TOR, MON, OTT, HAM) and BUF should all be in the same division. You’d have TOR v. MON; the battle for greater Toronto; the battle for Ontario; and the border battles between BUF and TOR/HAM. That way the Canadian media can pretend there is only one division in hockey and leave the SE alone except when they fantasize about poaching our stars.
What’s a Prince of Wales and a Clarence Campbell? It’s just too hard to understand…
Russian Machine Never Breaks
I posted this before, but
I’d like to throw my hat into the ring:
We do the playoffs based on conference record for the most part—let’s do away with the divisions:
CAMPBELL CONFERENCE
VAN
EDM
CAL
SJ
LAK
ANA
PHO
COL
MIN
CHI
STL
DAL
DET
COL
NAS
WALES CONFERENCE
WAS
MON
OTT
TOR
BUF
PIT
PHI
BOS
NYR
NYI
NJD
CAR
ATL
TB
FLA
Everyone plays everyone within their conference 4 times (two home, two road = 56 games), then some slightly off-balanced schedule with the other conference for the remaining 26 games.
All the rivalries are preserved—what’s not to like?
by bilspacecadet on Aug 4, 2009 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Home and away with the other conference is 30 games. That’s 86. It shouldn’t be that hard to cut four games somewhere every year.
This would lead to increased travel, but as a fan I love the plan.
by Gould Old Days on Aug 4, 2009 6:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Do the Admirals draw well? It might be a potential destination, if it’s not seen as too close to the Hawks and Wild (shouldn’t be).
I don’t knwo how well the Admirals draw. But generally people in Wisconsin don’t really want to root for Minnesota or Illinois-based teams in anything. They might well welcome an NHL team. And Madison is a college powerhouse team (most years…..when Joe Finley isn’t leading massacres of Badgers…..)
And Milwaukee doesn’t have a football or basketball team, right? No competition for coverage in the winter… That’s actually not a bad idea.
by Murshawursha on Aug 4, 2009 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions
Uhh, Milwaukee has the Bucks for b-ball (no jokes about that not being a team) and the entire state of WI has the Packers.
Forgot about the Bucks, but I don’t think the Packers would be huge competition attendence-wise. Coverage-wise you’re probably right though.
by Murshawursha on Aug 4, 2009 12:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Its year-round Packers Mania in Wisconsin. Seriously. One of the things I hated about being there and working at a paper would be seeing my stories bumped off the front page for some “Oh my god, Brett Favre is sitting out mini-camp!” story in May. Really? Like he doesn’t skip mini camp every freaking year? (and this is more important than my story on new hunting regulations?!)
I’m not sure anyone cares about the Bucks. But I lived in hardcore hockey territory; basketball hardly registered.
Milwaukee finished 11th in the AHL in attendance for the 2008-2009 season (5,878/game), behind Manchester and ahead of Syracuse.
btw, Hershey led the league by more than 1,200 fans/game.
If you've read this far...seek help.
What about as % of capacity? Are those stats even available?
In a 29 team league that’s not bad, unless their arena is bigger than most others and they have trouble filling it.
I’m guessing the NHL has something like that in mind for future expansion, although obviously not top of the list (we’d have heard them mentioned before more seriously if that were so).
What if they went really off-the-wall and stuck a team in North Dakota? Most of the state is crazy about UND and there are no other pro sports around. Is it not a big enough TV market for the NHL?
by Murshawursha on Aug 4, 2009 12:04 PM EDT up reply actions
North Dakota has a population of, like 8. The Minnesota border counties have 12. (ok, maybe not quite that low…..) It’s really shockingly desolate and empty out there. I think North Dakota is considered Wild territory, though.
Yeah… I just feel like they should stick another team somewhere in the mountains. The Avs are really the only team between Minnesota and California.
Of course, the arguement there is that nobody actually lives here. But I can’t help but wonder if a team would have more success in a ‘non-traditional’ market like ND than a ‘non-traditional’ market like Phoenix. At least they know what ice is up north. I guess it comes down to whether 90% of a small population is more than 2% of a large one.
by Murshawursha on Aug 4, 2009 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions
640K
Actually, I was at a fundraiser for Senator Dorgan last night. ND has roughly 640,000 people. And they most certainly do not root for Minnesota teams — he made that very clear. He (and his constituents) is most proud of UND’s hockey national championships.
(As an aside: he doesn’t give a crap about the BCS because no one in ND cares about football, apparently.)
by Scott in Shaw on Aug 4, 2009 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions
The Admirals play, I believe, in Bradley Center, which accomodates 17,800 for hockey. Now, do they open the upper level? I don’t know.
If you've read this far...seek help.
As of a few years ago the answer was not usually and I don’t recall hearing that it changed. They sell upper level tickets for games when they expect a bigger crowd, for example the Calder Cup finals (and there was not much of a crowd for G6 when Hershey won in ’06 fwiw) and some games with a charity fund-raiser component or an opponent that draws.
One thing as it relates to sports and attendance, I don’t think looking at minor league attendance is necessarily a good barometer for major league attendance at the pro level. Hamilton is another example of this as the Bulldogs don’t sell out and often don’t sell the upper level tickets. Depends on the circumstances.
Getting rid of geographic divisions would be best. There’s always the chance the Panthers or the Islanders relocate to KC. Otherwise if you move a Hamilton team East, you’ll probably have to move either Pittsburgh or even Atlanta into the Central.
Knowing the NHL? Total realignment based on Northern and Southern Conferences.
I agree that they shouldn’t be slaves to geography, but they have to consider geography to some degree. It would be absurd for the Caps and Hawks to be in the same division.
Assuming a modest shuffle, you move the most sensibly eastern team out west, to the West. In my eyes, that’s Atlanta. Least clout, farthest west by latitude, pairs them up close to Nashville. The awful geographic reality is that you’d want Hamilton in the NE, so you’d almost have to think about bumping Boston to the Atlantic, and then, which of those teams goes to the southeast, the geographically closest Flyers and break up their NBC-adored fights with Pitt and NYR?
Hockey fans would probably embrace a move back to four divisions with, what, the top four from each division going to the postseason, or do you do top eight in the conference? 1-2 seeds for two division winners? Simple enough logistics to decide on.
Wales——
Adams: BOS, BUF, MTL, OTT, TOR, HAM, NYI, (possible exp)
Patrick: CAR, NJD, PHI, WSH, FLA, TBL, PIT, NYR
Campbell——
Norris: ATL, CHI, CLB, DAL, DET, MIN, NSH, STL
Smythe: ANA, CGY, COL, EDM, LAK, SJS, VAN (possible exp)
This change moves Atlanta to the Smythe and the Islanders to the Adams, but preserves the core rivalries of the Northeast, the Atlantic, the Central, and the Pacific.
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It also establishes Dallas as farther east than Colorado, which struck me as an obvious fix.
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Only issue would be moving NYI away from NYR and NJD
Because now I can justify browsing and commenting during the work day with the argument that I am promoting my business.
Which I lament, but they’ll have to get over it. They’re the least anchored of the five teams in that division rivalry-wise now, by far, and it’s not like they won’t still have games against the Rangers. Also, I bet you the CAN fans would be interested in having Tavares do the local tour through MTL, OTT, TOR, and HAM.
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Move NYI to the Patrick, FLA to the Norris, and MIN to the Adams and you get a reasonable setup and keep the traditional rivalries in tact. No way the NHL moves the Isles away from the Rags and Devils, especially considering the shaky ground they are on.
by Killer_Carlson on Aug 4, 2009 2:20 PM EDT up reply actions
So that would look like:
Wales——
Adams: BOS, BUF, MTL, OTT, TOR, HAM, MIN (possible exp)
Patrick: CAR, NJD, PHI, WSH, TBL, PIT, NYR, NYI
Campbell——
Norris: ATL, CHI, CLB, DAL, DET, NSH, STL, FLA
Smythe: ANA, CGY, COL, EDM, LAK, SJS, VAN (possible exp)
I think I prefer (swapping Columbus and Tampa):
Wales——
Adams: BOS, BUF, MTL, OTT, TOR, HAM, MIN (possible exp)
Patrick: CAR, NJD, PHI, WSH, CLB, PIT, NYR, NYI
Campbell——
Norris: ATL, CHI, DAL, DET, NSH, STL, FLA, TBL
Smythe: ANA, CGY, COL, EDM, LAK, SJS, VAN (possible exp)
I really like this one. MIN to the Adams is the thing I hadn’t been considering but which solves an awful lot of problems. I also like establishing a Pittsburgh-Columbus rivalry. And the Florida teams should be with the Georgia team.
by Gould Old Days on Aug 4, 2009 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions
I like that as well (although the Norris is made up of teams from two distinctly separate areas). MIN has a lot of flexibility since they don’t have any traditional rivals and the teams currently in their division are so far away from them already that it would be hard to screw them any more in terms of travel.
by Killer_Carlson on Aug 4, 2009 4:12 PM EDT up reply actions
It takes a whole lot of liberty, moving three Southeast teams to what is otherwise essentially the Central division. I thought Atlanta was safe enough, as they’re got Western precedent (see NFL, where they were in the NFC West for a while), but what is essentially Miami’s team, in the West?
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but what is essentially Miami’s team, in the West?
Here’s the logic:
Miami’s natural rivals are Atlanta and Tampa
Atlanta and Tampa are culturally southern cities (I recognize that Miami isn’t)
Atlanta-Tampa-Dallas-Nashville make natural rivals because they’re southern teams
Nashville and Dallas are pretty far west. Atlanta has some history being “west” for sports conferences.
Therefore, put the southern block of teams in the West.
Here’s maybe an even better version of it:
Wales——
Adams: BOS, BUF, MTL, OTT, TOR, HAM, MIN (possible exp)
Patrick: NJD, PHI, WSH, CLB, PIT, NYR, NYI, FLA
Campbell——
Norris: ATL, CHI, DAL, DET, NSH, STL, FLA, TBL, CAR
Smythe: ANA, CGY, COL, EDM, LAK, SJS, VAN (possible exp)
I swapped Florida and Carolina. Carolina culturally belongs with the southern block with Nashville, Atlanta, etc. Miami would probably love to be in the same division as New York so the Snow Birds can catch some games.
This last one is my favorite yet.
by Gould Old Days on Aug 4, 2009 6:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Oops. Got FLA in there twice. Here’s what I meant with that last one:
Wales——
Adams: BOS, BUF, MTL, OTT, TOR, HAM, MIN (possible exp)
Patrick: NJD, PHI, WSH, CLB, PIT, NYR, NYI, FLA
Campbell——
Norris: ATL, CHI, DAL, DET, NSH, STL, TBL, CAR
Smythe: ANA, CGY, COL, EDM, LAK, SJS, VAN (possible exp)
by Gould Old Days on Aug 4, 2009 6:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Boudreau won't allow this to be a controversy
He simply won’t address it. And I happen to believe him more than I do the wily Nyl-ie. Whenever I start feeling bad for them man, I can think of 5.5 Million reasons why I will shed no tears.
The “5.5m reasons” is a bit of a cop out, imo. I don’t care how much money you make, you deserve to be treated professionally in the performance of your job. I’m not saying Nyls wasn’t, per se, but I don’t think that you can put a dollar value on respect, especially when dealing with a veteran. Of course, respect is a two-way street…
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JP:
Maybe something was lost in translation, but IMO, what Nyls has done is almost as damaging as Dany Heatley’s tomfoolery: he is creating an untenable situation by making allegations the coach clearly didn’t make. I’m sure he and Bruce have already spoken VERY candidly on their issues – but Nyls is poisoning the well. I’d also like to hear more from McPhee.
Are we heading to Sean Avery territory with Nyls, as in, being persona non grata when camp starts?
I agree that even if the quote is accurate, it probably should be handled internally and not through the media, but what proof do you have that he’s “making allegations the coach clearly didn’t make”? That Bruce claims no recollection of such a comment?
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
They’re probably both right. Bruce may be technically correct in that he never uttered the words “You’re not good enough”, but when he sat a 17-year vet for 11 out of 14 playoff games and didn’t have him on the ice in the most important game of the year ( Game 7 against the Pens), he was clearly telling Nyls through his benching that he wasn’t “good enough” to play. If ever there was a classic example of the old saying “Actions speak louder than words”, this is it.
And what if Boudreau’s exact words, when Nylander asked why he was being benched, were “because you’re not playing good enough.” Pretty close to what Nylander heard…
by Gould Old Days on Aug 4, 2009 11:12 AM EDT up reply actions
J.P. … if you hadn’t had that translated yesterday its entirely possible that Bruce and the Caps never would have known or heard about it. Way to go, screwing up the lockerroom before the season even starts.
I think Nylander has actually handled this whole situation rather well. Not one time last season did he complain about being benched, and he never complained about sitting out the playoffs. Now, he came out and did one interview (with the Swedish media, no less) saying what pretty much everyone already knows. If Boudreau thought he was good enough, he’d obviously be playing. And at least this way, he’s making sure everybody knows that he’s not being stubborn and refusing to wave his NMC. He’d be willing to move, if he could.
Part of me wonders if part of his problem last year was that Bruce had him playing as a checking-line center alot of the time. Seems to me that’s not a role he’s particularly suited for.
by Murshawursha on Aug 4, 2009 10:51 AM EDT up reply actions
I got beat to posting! Anyway, in response to S h a g g y:
I’m sure he and Bruce have already spoken VERY candidly on their issues – but Nyls is poisoning the well.
and J.P.:
it probably should be handled internally and not through the media
Given the “Nylander for Khabibulin” story that “broke” recently, plus milestone player movement dates such as the trade deadline, draft day and July 1 having all come and gone, Nyls is probably about as frustrated as a player gets. It’s not unreasonable that he’s looking at the market and saying, “Well, if Gomez and his ‘untradeable’ contract can get moved…”
Personally, I think he has kept it within the organization, refrained from commenting to the media, and taken the situation in stride. In the here and now, I would even argue his latest action is damn passive given the comments were made to a domestic publication in Sweden. He could have just as easily called up Tarik or Corey, made the same comments, then had the interview roll out all over the hockey news wire. Additionally, I would say the timing is about as passive as it gets as well. August vs May or June is, in my opinion, significant.
Maybe I’m nitpicking, but I don’t blame Nyls for speaking out in the least.
by ThreePingPost on Aug 4, 2009 11:00 AM EDT up reply actions
Maybe I’m nitpicking, but I don’t blame Nyls for speaking out in the least.
Neither do I. Melvin Mora up in Baltimore was benched for a five or six games and he’s screaming about being “disrespected”. Nylander was in the press box for 70% of the playoffs and he doesn’t say a word. I think he acted pretty professionally, all things considered.
Now, if Nyls really wanted to kick it up a notch, he should go on T.O.’s new reality show and really learn how to self-aggrandize.
How do you say I Love Me Some Me in Swedish?
i’m a huge fan of the community guidelines! well done all around. can’t think of anything to add, except possibly “relentless negativity or positivity,” with all the same caveats. although i’m sure it would constitute some other category of trolling, mindless “the caps are teh awesome! stanley cup in the bag!!” is on the same level as “the caps are lucky to be in the playoffs, guaranteed to lose in the first round” when repeated over and over again.
The guidelines have a “Rec” button so I rec’d them. But my rec ain’t showing. So I’m sorry if I broke the guidelines.
by Gould Old Days on Aug 4, 2009 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions
On another subject, is Ovechkin going to start a reality show with Leon Phelps?
If you've read this far...seek help.
Libelous, slanderous or otherwise defamatory statements.
Did DMG throw this one in so I could no longer promote my 2005 fixed lottery theory? ;-)
Russian Machine Never Breaks
Alex Ovechkin possibly makes the Caps’ PR folk very nervous by candidly discussing a bevy of topics like, um, just see for yourself, because this is a family newspaper and we have standards, USA Today.
vai CI
Man this issue has just started grating on me more and more. Why can’t people talk about sex? Washington post talks about people’s heads getting shot off all the time.
It’s ridiculous that that “story” is getting so much ahem play.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
I wouldn’t mind if people consistently had a sense of humor about it. Honestly, it is pretty funny. But you just know there’s going to be a prude backlash after this.
by Gould Old Days on Aug 4, 2009 3:57 PM EDT up reply actions
It’s obvious that where the interview was done this was just one part of the interview where here it becomes what the whole interview was apparently about.
It was the end of the man’s own party, he was basking in the (have to go there, sorry) afterglow, and a pretty girl was asking him questions.
With cameras rolling.
Poor guy never had a chance.
/he’s still absolutely adorable
//no doubt about it
IS PAЯTY NOW
Hadn’t thought of it this way before, and didn’t actually watch the video, but what are the chances he’s not even serious?
Doesn’t matter. He walked right into it. When you’re still jammed by your deejay set, with “Moscow Never Sleeps” and the cheers of an adoring crowd ringing in your ears, and a pretty girl starts asking you questions, you’ve got to represent.
TJ reports that he gave at least 10 interviews on that couch, one after the other after the other.
IS PAЯTY NOW
Plus, he’s helping to dismantle the old myth that:
abstinence = sexual frustration = increased agressiveness and performance in sports
That was so 1990s.
I have had sex before and after a hockey game too...
and haven’t won a Stanley Cup EITHER. Makes you think…
Sports are so pedestrian. I’ve prepared some science experiments that will illuminate the mind and dazzle the eye.
Russian Machine Never Breaks
by macvechkin on Aug 4, 2009 10:49 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
That’s as good a spot as any to wrap ’er up.
"The passion of our supporters cannot be contained by clothing."
by Bald Pollack on Aug 4, 2009 11:01 PM EDT up reply actions
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Southeast Standings
| GP | W | L | OTL | PT | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
Florida
|
53 | 25 | 17 | 11 | 61 |
|
Washington
|
54 | 28 | 21 | 5 | 61 |
|
Winnipeg
|
56 | 26 | 24 | 6 | 58 |
|
Tampa Bay
|
53 | 23 | 24 | 6 | 52 |
|
Carolina
|
56 | 20 | 25 | 11 | 51 |
(updated 2.11.2012 at 8:02 AM EST)
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