Ranking the Capitals: #5
by J.P. on Aug 3, 2009 6:30 PM EDT
123 comments
In an effort to beat the summer doldrums, we're undertaking to rank - with your help - the Washington Capitals, from Ovechkin to, well, we'll see. The criteria is simple: who is the most valuable player in the organization who hasn't already been ranked? Put another way, if you could only keep one of the remaining players, who would it be (or who would have the most value in trade as of right now)? Consider age, potential, contract status, organizational depth, etc. - it's your call. And after you vote and defend your selection in the comments, help us out and suggest a name to add to the next poll. [Note: previous "Ranking the Capitals" posts can be found here."]
Welcome Alex Semin to the list, and Jose Theodore to the poll...
- Alex Ovechkin
- Nicklas Backstrom
- Mike Green
- Alex Semin
If this FanPost is written by someone other than one of the blog's authors, the opinions expressed in it do not necessarily reflect those of this blog or SB Nation.
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Wow! We are flying through these today. :-) I picked Knuble due to the skill set he brings.
by CP2Devil on Aug 3, 2009 6:49 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, the pace will now slow to one-a-day or so. Those first four were quick and obvious. The rest? Not so much.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
by J.P. on Aug 3, 2009 7:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
We haven’t seen what Knuble will really do for the team yet, and Laich is an all-around hard working guy that everyone loves. 21 FTW.
"My face is my mask."
by jakeshapiro on Aug 3, 2009 6:50 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I like that reasoning. And an all-around leader, too.
by gfcaps fan on Aug 3, 2009 7:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’ve seen plenty of what he can bring in Bruins & Flyers uniforms. Caps have no other guy with the combo of grit and skill he does. PLus he crashes the net better than any Cap including Brooks. Brooks has him on age, but that doesn’t outweigh everything else to me.
by CP2Devil on Aug 3, 2009 7:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And Knuble kills penalties as well as being a force on the power play.
by Gould Old Days on Aug 3, 2009 8:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
but we don’t know what he’s going to do for the caps.
I’m sure nylander looked real good when we picked him up…
by snowburnt on Aug 3, 2009 9:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Regardless, he has value – if a team needed a reasonably priced RW, they’d have interest in Knuble.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
by J.P. on Aug 3, 2009 9:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This may be true, but it’s silly to rank the capitals based on a guy who’s played a total of zero minutes with the team, all you have is expectations. I may vote for him next year, but it’s like voting for Ron Paul or Ralph Nader to vote for him now.
I’m not voting for potential I’m voting for results, which is my argument voting for Alzner and Carlson. We have 7 other guys on there who played some hard time out there. We know what they’ve done, and most of them still have potential to grow.
Next year I could see any of those guys in this spot, but not right now.
by snowburnt on Aug 4, 2009 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I might be misunderstanding what you wrote, but it sounds like you’re voting for Carlson at some point, but not Knuble, even though neither has played a minute for the Caps. If so, isn’t there a disconnect in that logic?
I get that one is a blue-chip prospect and one is a grizzled vet, but all that means to me is that you’ll assign each a value using different criteria (e.g. age, potential for Carlson, possibly age, past performance for Knuble).
by Cluster on Aug 4, 2009 12:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I definitely left out the word ""not" in there. I meant to say:
which is my argument for not voting for Alzner and Carlson.
I probably would vote for Knuble before them if it came down to it.
by snowburnt on Aug 4, 2009 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m sure Knuble will be great on this team, but youth is a big deal to me. With that youth also comes potential. Knuble is on the downfall of his career and Laich is just starting to reach his peak. Laich is cheaper (for now) and with this team, that does matter.
Knuble has three things on Laich. He plays right wing, he crashes the net, and he’s got experience… but that’s about it. He’s not the ‘leader’ type guy that Laich is. Laich can (regardless of what the nay-sayers say) play center when needed (IIRC his face-off% has always been great) and we all know his PK skills.
That being said, I can see why some people would vote Knuble. He’s probably more valuable this year but in the long run, assuming Laich is resigned beyond 2010/2011 (god I hope so), he is far more valuable to the organization.
Brooks Laich signing off.
by Laich on Aug 4, 2009 7:57 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
While I chose Knuble because I think his skill set at the moment outweighs any possible future gains with Brooks I certainly can’t argue with anyone who chose Brooks. There are probably 3-4 guys you could argue for at #5 depending on how you value certain skills and/or positions.
by CP2Devil on Aug 4, 2009 11:10 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think the fact that he’s pretty neck and neck in this poll with Varlamov, the “prodigy” goalie whom the Caps wouldn’t have escaped the first round without, makes it clear how much fans view his value.
by Laich on Aug 4, 2009 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The next edition of “Ranking the Capitals” will be even more interesting. I’d venture to say that many who voted for Varly on this one weighed the age and potential components heavily. That might lean them towards Alzner or Carlson next. Brooksie might end up being like the Buffalo Bills for a few polls.
We will see!
by Cluster on Aug 4, 2009 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I doubt it. The second place finisher has won the next vote each time, regardless of how close it was.
It won’t get weird until we start comparing prospects to 4th liners.
by Laich on Aug 4, 2009 1:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You’re probably right.
I’m just saying that this was the first poll where the arguments made for the top two vote-getters were completely different. In other words, Brooks is the heart-and-soul, intangibles type that can chip in some goals, whereas Varly is a potential stud goaltender. The first few polls were simply going from one uber-talent to another.
by Cluster on Aug 4, 2009 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I dunno. I voted Varly this time and will vote Alzner next time. I’m sure I’m not alone.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
by J.P. on Aug 4, 2009 2:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i’m with cluster. laich wasn’t even a consideration for me with alzner, varly and carlson still on the board.
by Natty Bumppo on Aug 4, 2009 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Laich, Knuble & Poti will all go before Alzner and Carlson.
by Laich on Aug 4, 2009 1:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Carlson I’d agree, but not so sure about Alzner.
If the over/under was 1.5 on how many of those names (Laich, Knuble, Poti) go before Alzner, I’m taking the under.
by Cluster on Aug 4, 2009 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And we saw what Jagr did in Pitt and NYC…
by DrinkingPartner on Aug 4, 2009 9:15 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I struggled with this one, but ultimately went with Poti. I just think the defense is lost without him. He’s the only guy around who’s been at this gig for more than a few seasons. I’d feel differently if the Caps traded for another veteran on D, but for now he’s a lynchpin and underrated around here.
Knuble and Laich got serious consideration from me. Not any goalies though. The fact that we have so many good options pushes each of them down on my list.
“Where would the team be without Varlamov?” — “Actually, probably OK.”
“Where would the team be without Poti?” — “Screwed”
by Gould Old Days on Aug 3, 2009 6:51 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Seems as though you and I were thinking along the exact same lines. I could copy your post verbatim and its exactly the process I went through when voting for Poti on this one.
by GusDaMan on Aug 4, 2009 12:12 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
"Where would the team be without Varlamov?" — "Actually, probably OK."
"Where would the team be without Poti?" — "Screwed"
My thought process exactly.
by David M. Getz on Aug 4, 2009 9:54 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Poti was another one I thought long and hard about. Ultimately I chose Alzner over Poti because of JPs instructions….
Consider age, potential, contract status, organizational depth, etc. – it’s your call.
Yes, right now, today, Poti is more valuable than Alzner, but when thinking about age and potential, one has to recognize that Poti is probably just over the crest of the hill, while Alzner is just starting to climb it.
by Yoshietree on Aug 4, 2009 10:33 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Really?
Poti missed 30 games this year and the Caps put up a record number of points. While I caveat the addition of the “loser point,” this was still perhaps the best Caps squad in history, and Poti missed over 1/3 of the games. We really didn’t seem all that screwed during his absence.
I went for Laich primarily because his versatility is highly valuable. He plays in the corners, in front of the net, kills penalties, plays on the PP, can fill in on the top lines or be an excellent third-liner, blocks shots. . . etc. etc. etc. The Caps really don’t have anyone else who can do all of those things while scoring 20+ goals consistently. I think Steckel could do most of them, but he falls short on offense. Flash can probably put up 20+ goals, but he’s frequently invisible.
Knuble will likely prove to be very, very valuable (and could easily take this spot), but I’d like to see how he meshes – his role may be different here than it was in Philly. Likewise, Varlamov will probably prove quite valuable, but goalies can be enigmatic, and one postseason does not a career make. In the end, Laich’s ability to take a regular shift at center if need be cinches it for me.
by D'ohboy on Aug 4, 2009 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Poti missed 30 games this year and the Caps put up a record number of points. While I caveat the addition of the "loser point," this was still perhaps the best Caps squad in history, and Poti missed over 1/3 of the games. We really didn’t seem all that screwed during his absence.
With Poti in the lineup the Caps won 64.7% of their games; without him they won 54.8%.
I love Laich and in terms of absolute value I think he brings as much as Poti, if not more. But on this team going into this season I’d be assured of having Poti in the lineup because I’d rather my team have their #2 defenseman than a third line forward who can play up when need be.
by David M. Getz on Aug 4, 2009 1:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Poti missed 30 games this year and the Caps put up a record number of points.
While this is true, their record with him in lineup was much better than without…
With: 32-13-6
W/O: 18-11-2
by Yoshietree on Aug 4, 2009 1:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I actually had them at 32-12-6 and 17-12-2, counting that game Poti only played six seconds so the team could make an emergency callup as a game without him, but I could go either way.
by David M. Getz on Aug 4, 2009 1:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah…no chance I took that into account. Stupid memory issues.
by Yoshietree on Aug 4, 2009 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Went with Tsarly.
Yet again, I nominate Flash to be added.
by brs03 on Aug 3, 2009 6:59 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Flash is definitely the next add, then Mo (with two n’s).
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
by J.P. on Aug 3, 2009 7:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Can tell you right now I’d vote 10x for BMo before Mo, even without seeing him once.
by Laich on Aug 4, 2009 7:58 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
At this point for me it was kind of a push between several people…
In the end I decided to look at it from the point of view of who I would least like to see traded and I voted for Steckle..
I probably still have rose colored glasses after this years play offs but he’s one of the reliable guys the team can count on to perform when its necessary.. He works hard every shift, a good two way game and is as reliable as we can ask for on the face off dot…
I also want to nominate Matt Bradley for the next poll.
by JustJeff on Aug 3, 2009 7:21 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I also went with Steckel partially for the same reasons. Who would I’ ll miss the most if he got traded ?
Steckel definitively.
by Ice Warrior on Aug 3, 2009 7:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I picked Schultz. For me it was between him, Poti, and Alzner, Alzner is unproven, Poti may be gone soon. But Schultz is the monster on the Caps’ shutdown pair.
by red army line on Aug 4, 2009 3:54 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This was hard for me. I wanted to go with Poti for what he brings to the defense but in the end I had to go with Brooks cause of what it seems he brings in leadership and fight to the team.
by i12swim on Aug 3, 2009 7:38 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Seems like after the first 4, you almost need to have a netminder up there. Besides, given everything we know right now I believe Varlamov is the most valuable player on this list, given (a) what he’s done so far, (b) what was and is expected of him, and © his overall potential to perform in this league.
Is he the best or most proven on this list? No. Is he even my personal favorite as a fan? No. (Laich and/or Steckel fill that role from this list)…But most valuable? Yeah, I believe possibly so.
Still, this pick and the next few are gonna be tough
by PaintDrinkingPete on Aug 3, 2009 7:48 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Sorry that © was supposed to just be “( c )” … stupid auto-text!
/actually, it usually helps me.
by PaintDrinkingPete on Aug 3, 2009 7:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
With all due respect to all the myopics that have posted in consideration of this season, it’s Karl Alzner. He’s going to be a stud on the blueline for many years. He was Captain of Team Canada. He’s a great quote. He brings everything you love in Brooks Laich, and he will be a top pair D within 2 years. We’d suffer this year if we lost Poti, but he’s probably gone after this contract anyway. We’d struggle without Laich, but it’s easier to replace a 3rd line guy with 2nd line potential than it is to replace a 2nd/3rd pair D with top pair potential. If you want a team built around AO to compete for a decade, Karl Alzner is your man.
by Fehr and Balanced on Aug 3, 2009 7:49 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
I hope you are right. I like the confidence! Pass that kool-aid!
I take it the case for Alzner over Varly is that the Caps have Neuvirth (and Theo)?
by grapejoos on Aug 3, 2009 7:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
While they also have Carlson (and Orlov?)
Varlamov will have a larger hand in whether the Caps win or lose, at least this coming season. If that’s not “more valuable”…
by brs03 on Aug 3, 2009 7:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This season Theo would be able to get us to the playoffs and probably win the SE. Can you count on Theo for the playoffs? Obviously not. But can you really count on Varlamov being that hot again? Either way, I clearly didn’t vote for this season. I think Neuvirth and Varlamov are both going to be solid NHL starters. I don’t think we are going to regret moving either one of them. One is going to win us a lot of games, the other is going to bring us a nice bounty in return.
Carlson and Orlov are both offensive-minded D, and while Carlson has looked fine in his own end, Alzner is the only guy that became a bluechip based on his defensive play (arguably the only bluechip prospect at all). There are no other bluechip defensive players in the system. We have Mike Green. Carlson and Orlov are looking to be Alex Semin to Green’s AO. But Green needs a guy that can be trusted to cover him and play all those minutes. Alzner is the Backstrom. Alzner does it by always being in position, having amazing instincts, remaining calm, and making the right play. He is going to be the defensive anchor for the AO-led Caps for many years. Mark it.
by Fehr and Balanced on Aug 3, 2009 8:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That just got me excited. I think you just won my vote at #6 for Alzner. For me it comes down to who I’d be most upset if the Caps traded. I absolutely love Laich and Steckel, but they are simply more easily replaceable than Varly (or Alzner…F&B has me leaning that direction) in the long view.
by grapejoos on Aug 3, 2009 8:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I like where your head is at.
This is starting to get tough as hell. I know for whom I’m not voting quite yet – Carlson, Fehr, Knuble, Poti, Schultz, Stecks, Theo. So that leaves Alzner, Laich and Varly.
As much as I love Laich – and I love me some Laich – I think he’s not quite next. I think Bradley brings a lot of the same leadership traits, and Knuble and another guy or two can replace a lot of what he does on the ice. Don’t get me wrong, he’s plenty valuable, but when you’ve got a Top-5 picked D (who’s living up to the pedigree) and a potential franchise G, I think there’s more relative value in those guys.
So Alzner or Varly… I’ve gotta think for a while on this one.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
by J.P. on Aug 3, 2009 8:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Come to where the flavor is. Come to Varly country.
"The passion of our supporters cannot be contained by clothing."
by Bald Pollack on Aug 3, 2009 8:59 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Neuvirth makes Varlamov more expendable, that’s the only reason I’d take a franchise D over a franchise goalie.
by Fehr and Balanced on Aug 3, 2009 10:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I thought about this for a few hours without looking at the comments or poll results and picked Laich. I was pleasantly surprised to see how many others picked him as well.
I really thought Alzner\Knuble would be his biggest competition this round. A little surprised to see Varlamov with a slight edge.
by zephyr on Aug 4, 2009 12:18 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i can’t say Alzner is more valuable than Brooks Laich or Mike Knuble. Maybe for the future, but not now. He did good in his call-up last year, but he was he worst Dman but the time of his demotion. i voted Laich, but would have gone Knuble if i had seen him fit into the Caps system. Can’t vote for a guy i haven’t seen play with the team,
Varly isnt the most valuable because we still have Theo. Varly has shown me more than Alzner and a goalie is more important thena Dman. Again, Varly is a future thing.
by hockeyman33 on Aug 3, 2009 10:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I can see the point if we’re talking about this year only (because Theo will be gone afterward), but can you really have Theo as your playoff starting goalie? Maybe under that scenario, Neuvirth could theoretically do what Varlamov did, but I think the Caps would fare better in the playoffs – this year – without Laich and with Varly than the other way around.
That said, Laich is going to finish no worse than #7 in this game for me, and is awesome.
by grapejoos on Aug 3, 2009 10:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i’ve been looking at it as: who would i trade for whom? to me, that’s the best way to identify value. i would trade laich—a 2nd or 3rd line winger with great intangibles—for alzner, a young star-in-the-making, future top pairing defenseman. i would also trade varly for alzner. with the way we’ve seen goalies shine and then fizzle around the NHL, alzner is a much safer bet to reach his potential.
by Natty Bumppo on Aug 4, 2009 11:01 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
joining the conversation late, i’ll just agree with everything F&B said. alzner was my pick.
by Natty Bumppo on Aug 4, 2009 10:31 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I went with Varly. There are other good choices here, but when you’re talking about most valuable, it’s pretty hard to dismiss what Varly did in the playoffs and the increasingly real potential that he turns into an all-star caliber goalie. Neuvirth looks strong too, but until you do it in the NHL, you’re still an unknown (and on that note, Varly hasn’t completely proven he can do it over the long haul, but all indicators are good and he has a first-round pedigree).
I love Laich and Steckel, love what Poti brings to the equation, etc., but you need a good goalie to win championships, and Varly looked like that kind of goalie to me in the playoffs. If the Caps traded him today, goaltending would become an enormous concern for me going forward, Neuvy or not.
by grapejoos on Aug 3, 2009 7:49 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I too went with Varly because I looked at the part up top that said “if you could only keep one of the remaining players, who would it be”
I have already decided that Laich is my #6 so I am just waiting for that post. Alzner is a stud and probably will get my #7 vote but I like what has been said about Stecks and Poti as well.
by PKLords76 on Aug 3, 2009 7:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yup. Varly. For all the reasons I said when I voted him #4 over Semin.
by Scott in Shaw on Aug 4, 2009 12:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh as far as the next man on the list goes, while he gets bashed for being a bottom tier D, I say Erskine gets on there. He would have been a top 4 guy in the old NHL because of his size and mean streak and that’s what you need come playoff time.
by PKLords76 on Aug 3, 2009 7:59 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I like Laich for this one
Wah wah waaaaaah
"And next year it will be ours."
by Ovechwin on Aug 3, 2009 8:00 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Laich also, although I was this close to choosing Varlamov. this is where the choices get difficult and I’m glad I don’t have Bruce’s job.
by CapitalCentre on Aug 3, 2009 8:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
tough decision for sure, and i made it tougher for myself by reading all the comments first – can’t decide if that’s a good or bad idea! on one hand, it gives me a lot more insight – but it briefly made me doubt my first instinct (which was “oh, we’re on #5 after the big guys now? laich, no-brainer”). so, i guess it’s not so much a no-brainer (seriously thought about varly), but i still go with laich. you can replace his skill set, perhaps, but i don’t think you can replace his heart.
by kellobellow on Aug 4, 2009 12:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I voted for Alzner before reading the comments but F and B nailed it. When you consider “age, potential, contract status, and organizational depth” there is no one on that list that is more valuable than Alzner: he’s not yet 21; he is potentially a player who will mature in a cornerstone top pair D; he has a very manageable cap hit for the next several years; and there is no one in the organization who brings to the table what he could potentially bring. He is the complete package both on and off the ice and could (reasonably) be this generation’s Rod Langway. It would suck to lose Laich, Varly etc but I would rather lose them than Alzner.
Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity
by ChrisAm on Aug 3, 2009 8:30 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Go Steckel… He’s one of the most dependable players on the ice at any given point in time. Always doing the tough work short handed and winning more face offs than any one else.
As important as developing players may be, Steckel is proven at this point to be a steady hand out there.
by snowburnt on Aug 3, 2009 8:39 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I went with Varly. I considered Alzner and Laich, but the kid keeper takes the cake in my mind when considering the criteria of trade value, age, potential, and contract status.
Plus, I consider a hot goaltending prospect similar to a stud starting pitching prospect in baseball. You simply value them as a commodity more than the other positions in the sport. They are harder to find. The bonus here is that Varly has shown significant glimpses of what he is capable of (in high-pressure situations to boot). He’s not all the way there yet, but considering how deep the Caps’ goaltending depth supposedly is, I am impressed by the way he has grabbed the opportunity by the throat.
by Cluster on Aug 3, 2009 9:08 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
As the loan Schultz voter out here on the interwebs, I’d like to explain myself.
To me, Varly and Alzner are both full of immense potential that’s close to being realized. But neither of them has gone through a full NHL season as yet.
So sure, Schultz is goofy awkward on skates at times, he doesn’t hit as much as Chara, he’s not nasty like Pronger, and the pratfall against the Rags sticks out big time. But not many 23 year olds have played 150+ NHL games on the blueline in the league. He doesn’t have the leadership makeup that Alzner has, but his ceiling is just as high and he’s closer to reaching it than King Karl.
Varly looks like he’s got a shot at being stupendous too. But there’s always a goalie or two in every generation who looks like the second coming of Dryden or Roy then fizzles out into obscurity. So until we see some sustained production from Varly, he can’t make #5.
If you want to call this “most trade value” then I’d agree that Alzner and Varly are both ahead of Schultz, because they’re still on entry-level deals. But for long-term franchise value, I vote Schultz
by Tromni on Aug 3, 2009 9:23 PM EDT reply actions 3 recs
Rec’d for the Sarge love.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
by J.P. on Aug 3, 2009 9:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think his issue is that he’s not the best now (that’s Poti, at least for defensive D) and he’s not likely the best in the future (Alzner). He’s the best combo of the two, though, and I agree that’s likely not given as much weight as it should.
by brs03 on Aug 3, 2009 9:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Poti only looks better now in the sense that he makes fewer obvious mistakes. That’s what being a veteran is all about.
And “Future Alzner” is definitely better than Schultz is right now. But “Future Schultz” is also better than his current self. And while you can’t teach the leadership qualities that Alzner possesses, you can’t teach wingspan either.
Regardless of how it shakes out in anyone’s opinion right now, I’d say that
Green – Alzner
Carlson – Schultz
is going to be the best top 4 in the NHL at some point in the next 5 years.
by Tromni on Aug 3, 2009 9:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
But you also can’t teach hockey sense, and Alzner’s got boatloads of it whereas Schultz doesn’t touch him in that regard.
That’s why Alzner’s touted as a semi-franchise player.
That top-4 could be sweet if everyone develops and stays in the org., no doubt.
by brs03 on Aug 3, 2009 10:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And if 5 years is the window, who knows if Orlov could join that group as well.
If that top 4 shakes out, it will be a testament to the worth of 1st round picks (and will mean McPhee did pretty well on his hit rate in the first round). Also, Green is the latest pick in the group, at #29 (Carlson #27, Schultz # 27, Alzner #5).
by grapejoos on Aug 3, 2009 10:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I voted 55 too.
If all four of the ‘top four’ guys are back in 10-11, that’s a ~$23 million in cap hit. A guy like 55 — cheap, big minutes, fantastic stats (sorry but-I-saw-it-with-my-own-eyes-waaaah! types), CBA-locked-in, etc. — is mega-valuable in a capped NHL. He’s even more valuable in an environment when the cap is likely to fall a bit.
by TylerG on Aug 3, 2009 10:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
There’s a Mr. David Getz on line one for you.
"The passion of our supporters cannot be contained by clothing."
by Bald Pollack on Aug 4, 2009 7:30 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Props to F&B for making the argument before me, but here was my thinking going into the voting as well (hopefully I’m not just repeating his argument:
Had to go with Alzner here with my thinking being “who from that list would be the hardest to replace with someone of equal value inside or outside of the organization?” I would say Neuvirth is (at this point) still fairly comparable to Varlamov so that eliminated Varly from my consideration (although a 20-something goalie with that much upside is definitely a close call). A net-crashing forward is fairly easy to find, though the price makes it a closer call for Knuble. 2nd and 3rd liners can always be found somewhere, so despite their nearness to the top of my list of favorite players I had to bypass Stecks and Laich. Someone like Alzner – a defensive minded blueliner, under team control for a long while, still very young, proven as a top tier guy in all other levels that he’s played – is not easily replaceable when you look around the league (at least to someone with as limited knowledge as I have). That type of player is also a big need when you’ve got someone like our #3 most valuable guy for him to (hopefully) pair up with – someone has to protect Green’s backside. So I voted for Alzner. These next few are going to be brain-twisters.
Also, I vote for Bradley to be added to the list next (being from those still not on the list who are signed for next year as a main consideration, although he is also fairly “replaceable” per my logic above…).
by MB_10 on Aug 3, 2009 9:42 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I’d like to see Clark added to the list- it will be most revealing.
by ChrisAm on Aug 3, 2009 9:49 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
we all know our captain is one of our least valuable players. have him healthy and it might change.
by hockeyman33 on Aug 3, 2009 10:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Right. How would it be revealing at all? The Caps have basically gone two seasons without him playing much or having any impact. I’d pick a handful of depth guys over Clark.
by zephyr on Aug 4, 2009 12:20 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Revealing in at least 2 ways: how much perceived value does Clark have in a general sense despite his fall off in production and who is specifically valued over him? Given the organizational depth at some positions, I can see cogent arguments for keeping Clark over any combination of Juice, Fehr, and ShaMo (and at some moments Flash). At least 2 of those guys are not depth players IMO.
by ChrisAm on Aug 4, 2009 8:36 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, crud. I meant to vote for Laich, but I accidentally voted for Pat Buchanan Varly. Darn confusing ballots!
(In all seriousness, if it’s within one vote, hey, it’s my fault for mis-clicking. =)
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by winterion on Aug 3, 2009 10:36 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I went with Alzner. Not going to spend too much time explaining my rationale since I’m sure most of it’s already been said. BLUF…it came down to Alzner, Laich and a keeper.
Alzner > Laich – Personally, I think Alzner is going to be much more important to this team than Laich, especially when you consider the additions of Morrison and Knuble.
Alzner > Keeper – IMO Varly and Theo are going to be much closer to splitting the games than any of us want to believe. If the option had been for the tandem of Varly/Theo I probably woulda chosen them over Alzner.
by Yoshietree on Aug 3, 2009 11:09 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I picked Varly
Seriously, how many times did Theodore let the team down last year? Too many to count. When the goaltending slumps, the teams confidence slumps and it shows. Everyones play suffers. Varly gives you a chance to win every single night. This team plays supremely confident hockey when Varlys on his game. The defense also picks up its game when they have competent goaltending behind them. Its Varly, plain and simple.
by DonCaps819 on Aug 3, 2009 11:52 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Varly gives you a chance to win every single night.
To early to say something like that especially after seeing him wear down by games 5,6,7.
by zephyr on Aug 4, 2009 12:21 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
To early to say something like that especially after seeing him wear down by games 5,6,7.
Agreed, and I voted for him twice in these polls.
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by Bald Pollack on Aug 4, 2009 7:44 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This rating thing requires some assumption/angle.
If I have mooks and those 4 on my team I think I need a goaltender now and I would actually choose a goalie with less “potential” and more stats than Varly as my starter but, he’s the best option available – possibly a great option – so I’d personally have to go with him.
by Icebat on Aug 3, 2009 11:54 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Let’s put it this way…
If it’s not a goaltender, the Caps have no chance to win the Stanley Cup this year.
If you've read this far...seek help.
by ThePeerless on Aug 4, 2009 7:26 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Well, the margin between the top goalies and the lesser FA goalies is what, 1 GA per game? The Flyers are trying to counter that with good offense and defense.
by red army line on Aug 4, 2009 8:01 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
To which I say… good luck.
It hasn’t worked since 1975, it won’t work this year.
If you've read this far...seek help.
by ThePeerless on Aug 4, 2009 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The chances are against it, but if a team allows 15 shots against a game, that’ll be like an extra GA every two games.
by red army line on Aug 4, 2009 1:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Varly - You’ve got to have solid tending to do anything in June, and it ain’t three-or-more, and Bjork Neuvirth isn’t on the list. If Neuy were on the list, it might be pretty interesting.
by marks4java on Aug 4, 2009 10:09 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Knuble is interesting in terms of what he COULD bring to the Caps. We know that we should be able to expect 20-25 goals, but if he manages to be a mentor in the school of net crashing and garbage goal collecting for Laich and Fehr, then he will be even more valuable.
I picked Laich because he’s young, under contract for a couple more years and provides that element of dirty work that other young guns tend to miss. However having read all of the comments and arguments, I kind of wish I had picked Alzner.
Related to Varly, I think he is very important, but I am also tempering expectations for him. He had a great run, but he is still very much an unknown quantity, and with Neuvirth in the wings, I think its kind of hard to say which player is going to have the better career since the sample size on both is so small.
Because now I can justify browsing and commenting during the work day with the argument that I am promoting my business.
by Sombrero Guy on Aug 4, 2009 10:14 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I have to go Varly because I cannot honestly see Laich as a more valuable player than the goalie. I think #5 had to be a goalie. We picked our 4-man Powerplay and our goalie.
I think Laich’d probably be next on my list, too, though.
by DrinkingPartner on Aug 4, 2009 10:30 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Poti or Steckel? must give this more thought.
by RedBirdie on Aug 4, 2009 10:23 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
If Steckel goes down, Boyd Gordon replaces a lot of what he does. If Poti goes down, who replaces him?
by David M. Getz on Aug 4, 2009 10:27 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What timeline are you thinking on?
by Fehr and Balanced on Aug 4, 2009 10:34 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Next season. I’m personally using that as my criteria first and foremost.
by David M. Getz on Aug 4, 2009 10:36 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hmmm. thinking first and foremost in terms of next year would impact a lot of people’s arguments about Alzner.
Because now I can justify browsing and commenting during the work day with the argument that I am promoting my business.
by Sombrero Guy on Aug 4, 2009 10:50 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
True, but hey people are free to use whatever criteria they choose. For my personally value is tied so much not only to a guy’s performance and potential but the performance and potential of his teammates so projecting how valuable a guy’s going to be several years down the road is very difficult IMO, especially if you consider personnel changes.
by David M. Getz on Aug 4, 2009 10:52 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dead Horse Beating...
We went through this last year – any assortment of our younger guys (Alzner/Carlson) or AHL callups like Sloan/Collins. Poti missed 30 games last year and the Caps didn’t suffer inordinately. He’s replaceable.
by D'ohboy on Aug 4, 2009 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
With Poti in the lineup the Capitals averaged 1.41 points per game; with him out they averaged 1.16.
That 0.25 points per game difference represents a 21.6% increase in points per game with Poti in lineup. Plus 1.41 points per game comes out to 116 points over the course of a season, while 1.16 comes out to 95. Last year 116 points won the Eastern Conference and 95 points was good enough for seventh. That’s a pretty significant drop off.
by David M. Getz on Aug 4, 2009 1:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, but who else was absent from the lineup when Poti was out? Hard to correlate that points increase directly to him I’d imagine.
by Cluster on Aug 4, 2009 1:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree – plus you can’t control for opponents, home and away, goaltenders, etc. Irregardless it’s certainly not the case that there was not a significant drop off in the team’s performance while Poti was hurt.
by David M. Getz on Aug 4, 2009 1:06 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Gotta meeting to run to, but I’m guessing that if you compared our GA in games he played vs. those he didn’t it would be better when he was out of the lineup. Either way, he missed much of the season and the Caps didn’t suffer much for it in the standings. Obviously, there’s no counter-factual for Laich, but we’re relatively much deeper at D than at forward.
by D'ohboy on Aug 4, 2009 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I just don’t see Laich’s numbers going up at all this year. If anything I think they’re going to dip as almost half of his points were on the PP. No chance he gets the same minutes this year with the addition of Knuble.
by Yoshietree on Aug 4, 2009 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I just don’t see Laich’s numbers going up at all this year. If anything I think they’re going to dip as almost half of his points were on the PP. No chance he gets the same minutes this year with the addition of Knuble.
but the power play lost Fedorov. I look at it as, on the PP, Knuble replaces Feds and Laich gets pretty much the same time as last year.
by RedBirdie on Aug 4, 2009 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
But Knuble will presumably play more than 52 games.
by David M. Getz on Aug 4, 2009 1:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Knuble and Feds play different rolls. Feds played C and point. Knuble won’t play either of those. The Po-Po and BMo will take Feds’ time.
by Fehr and Balanced on Aug 4, 2009 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Feds didn’t play the point, not that often. His favorite spot was rotating with Backstrom between the front of the net and the right wing. That’s likely what Knuble will be doing as well.
by brs03 on Aug 4, 2009 3:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Gotta meeting to run to, but I’m guessing that if you compared our GA in games he played vs. those he didn’t it would be better when he was out of the lineup.
By my (quick) math the Capitals gave up more goals when Poti was in the lineup (3.09/game to 2.81/game) but they also scored more (3.53 to 2.96) and obviously their goal differential was much better at +0.44 compared to +0.16.
Either way, he missed much of the season and the Caps didn’t suffer much for it in the standings.
I think it’s awfully hard to say that. Obviously the team had a very good year and finished very high in the standings but it’s impossible to know what they could have done with Poti in the lineup, and the numbers suggest they would have been better.
we’re relatively much deeper at D than at forward.
Perhaps, but there’s much, much more high-end talent at forward which makes me feel like the team would suffer less from the loss of Laich since Ovechkin, Backstrom, Semin, Knuble, Morrison, Steckel, Fehr, and Fleischmann should still be able to get the job done and the fact that I think the team would suffer more from a loss of Poti makes him more “valuable” in my eyes.
by David M. Getz on Aug 4, 2009 1:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Another thing that makes Poti valuable is his leadership of the PK unit. And when the Caps do something supremely stupid with 2:05 left and go down to a 5-on-3, Poti’s going to be out there working is ass off to make sure the other team doesn’t score (along side Steckel and Gordon, of course)
by RedBirdie on Aug 4, 2009 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Except according to the rules of this make-believe August activity we lose most of those names listed.
According to the rules we get only these 4 players and that’s it. Who’s next to have success. Doesn’t mean someone would change their pick… just making sure we’re all on the same page s’all.
by Icebat on Aug 4, 2009 1:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fair point, although that changes the whole dynamic of our Laich/Poti debate.
by David M. Getz on Aug 4, 2009 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I didn’t want to delve too much into the rules of the game though, it’s interesting thinking in terms of losing one player over another as well.
by Icebat on Aug 4, 2009 1:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No doubt. I especially like how J.P. told us to use whatever criteria we like in order to spark a more lively debate.
by David M. Getz on Aug 4, 2009 2:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rec’d for the use of “irregardless.”
by Fehr and Balanced on Aug 4, 2009 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ok, even thought I voted for Laich I think you guys have gotten this right with Varly, after sleeping on it.
That’s only IF he is awesome this year though. If he ends up blowing up or Neuvy surpasses him…
by zephyr on Aug 4, 2009 12:27 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
11% lead now for Valry
Because now I can justify browsing and commenting during the work day with the argument that I am promoting my business.
by Sombrero Guy on Aug 4, 2009 12:52 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Varly just called and left a message:
“Затем голосование, пожалуйста”
by Cluster on Aug 4, 2009 1:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I like Laich.
Come on, dudes. We all know that Brooks is the guy here, right?
I mean, I like Varlamov, but he hasn’t proven all that much yet in his one NHL season. I’m not ready to put all my eggs in that basket yet. Brooks is a young, heart and soul guy and a clear leader in the locker room, and he also happens to produce consistently at the NHL level (I’m looking at you, David Steckel).
Vote Laich!
by bodyodor on Aug 4, 2009 1:01 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Brooks is a young, heart and soul guy and a clear leader in the locker room, and he also happens to produce consistently at the NHL level (I’m looking at you, David Steckel).
Brooks’ PP time per game also more than doubled from ‘07-08 and he saw 3+ minutes a game more than Stecks did in ’08. I’m not about to discredit the value of Laich to the team, but if the inference is that Stecks has had his shot and blown it, I’d suggest Stecks hasn’t gotten much of a shot to blow.
"The passion of our supporters cannot be contained by clothing."
by Bald Pollack on Aug 4, 2009 1:47 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I wasn’t suggesting that Steckel has blown his shot at all. You are absolutely correct that he hasn’t been given much of an offensive role on the Caps, but he has done admirable work in a defensive capacity. I just wouldn’t hold my breath waiting for an offensive breakout any time soon.
by bodyodor on Aug 5, 2009 9:21 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would LOVE to see BB participate in this little exercise and see who he slots where (a possible indicator as to how he assesses his players). Too many bruised egos though, huh? I’m not sure ice time is a 100% indicator, there must be times where he’d rather play a certain player but can’t due to penalties or relative position on the ice (offensive/neutral zone/defensive draws, etc.)
by war_capitals on Aug 4, 2009 2:42 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
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by J.P. on Aug 4, 2009 3:10 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
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Southeast Standings
| GP | W | L | OTL | PT | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
Washington
|
71 | 47 | 14 | 10 | 104 |
|
Atlanta
|
70 | 30 | 29 | 11 | 71 |
|
Tampa Bay
|
70 | 28 | 30 | 12 | 68 |
|
Florida
|
69 | 28 | 30 | 11 | 67 |
|
Carolina
|
70 | 29 | 33 | 8 | 66 |
(updated 3.19.2010 at 1:17 AM EDT)
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