Pick 'Em: Caps Captain?
by Stephen Pepper on Aug 28, 2009 1:30 PM EDT
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PrintAs training camp rapidly approaches (and thank the heavens for that fact), we thought it an appropriate time, on this Aloha Friday, to consider the possibility of a change in leadership. Perhaps, a lasting machine stitch of the "C" on a Washington Capitals sweater other than those worn by current captain, Chris Clark.
Notably, Patrick Marleau (historically a recent source of frustration for my fantasy teams) was stripped of his Sharks captaincy, and our Canes Country colleagues have pondered what may seem unthinkable to outsiders, relieving Rod-the-aging-Bod Brind'Amour of his position as team leader. If a captaincy change ought to be made, now seems the right time to implement it.
It was during 2005 training camp, following the lockout, that the team made a big to-do in announcing that the captaincy would be handed to Maryland native Jeff Halpern during a Fan Fest ceremony in Ballston. At the time, it seemed as if that captaincy would last for years to come. Unfortunately, Halpern's tenure was but one season, when Clark was named captain for the 2006 season, just a day before players were to report for September camp.
Back in late January, when Clark was shut down for the remainder of the season due to wrist surgery (the second straight season truncated by injury), all GM George McPhee would reveal about the effect of Clark's absence on the captain's position was that he and Coach Bruce Boudreau "would probably talk about it at a later point." Boudreau's view at the time, however, was clear: "Clark is our captain. There's no controversy there. When he gets healthy, he'll come back and be our captain." And so he did. Uncle Ted loves him. We see no indication that the team has since changed its course and will change its captain. But should they?
As I wrote in his Rink Wrap, Captain Cadaver certainly provides the younger players on this Caps team with an inspirational example of the rugged determination required to succeed in the NHL. But since his impressive 2006-07 campaign, he's been unable to consistently lead on the ice. And even Coach appeared to have called out El Capitan during a rough stretch of last season. More to the point, two of three Game 7 failures under his captain's watch resulted in defeat, the most recent of which was a stupendous collapse that still leaves much of Caps country scratching their heads. Ultimately, results matter.
But looking at the franchise's history of captains, we see quite clearly that the periods of greatest stability at the post, Rod Langway (1982-93) and Dale Hunter (1994-99), coincide with the greatest successes, both regular and post-season, of the franchise to date. Since the 1998-99, the team has seen six captaincy changes in nine seasons (including a "co-captaincy" of Steve Konowalchuk and Brendan Witt in 2001-02 and a switch to no captain under Glen Hanlon).
So with Clark still on the books for two more seasons and, we can only hope, healthy for the upcoming season, should McPhee and Boudreau stick with #17 at the helm, or is it time for the franchise to do what many believe must be its destiny: to officially designate Alex Ovechkin, the first repeat winner of the Hart Memorial Trophy in over a decade, as team captain? Or maybe even today's featured Cap, the pride of Wawota, SK?
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Clark – until he’s done with it or we’re done with him. He’s earned the right not to be humiliated by having the honor stripped away from him.
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by J.P. on Aug 28, 2009 1:31 PM EDT reply actions 4 recs
This is my initial reaction as well. But I voted other because I don’t really like any option. Clark hasn’t been playing, and when he has played he has been very un-Captainlike. I think he’s putting too much pressure on himself to not only get healthy, but to lead. I’d like to see GMGM/BB say that they want Clark to be healthy to hold the C so that if he goes down for an extended period of time again they can move on and give it to someone else.
If/when he goes down, I think the C should be offered to AO first, but I have a feeling he may still turn it down. After that I’d offer it to Laich and I’m sure he’d accept. I’m not sure who I’d rather have as the Captain. AO has admitted his English gets choppy when he’s worked up, and you need clear communication under some heated circumstances to be an effective Captain with the refs. On the other hand he is by far the most consistent player for the Caps and nobody doubts that he’d go through the wall for the team. I have no idea who is better in the locker room but from everything I’ve seen both Laich and AO are favorites so I don’t know that it would make a difference either way. Nobody knows what their leadership styles are so it’s impossible to speculate who is the better leader.
A man must have a code.
I’m waiting to hear from the ever-vocal Bradeckel lobby – conjoined captains, baby!
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by J.P. on Aug 28, 2009 1:42 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I’d be cool being done with him. :-)
How many teams have 4th liners that play undisciplined hockey as captain?
Didn’t the great Mike Modano get over the ‘humiliation’ of passing the torch along to Brendan Morrow?
Russian Machine Never Breaks
Mike Modano is a class act all the way. Lord knows I wouldn’t have handled it even 1% as well as he did.
Again, these aren’t really the sorts of things that I keep up on, but they’ve been together for some time, haven’t they?
I’ve always wondered about the Dallas area and Mike Modano, fan-wise. I mean, you’d think it couldn’t be a better fit… the all-time american boy plays for the Texas team. Gets them a Cup. Need to blip over to the Stars blog here on SB Nation and do a little research on that.
She definitely is gorgeous, even if she’s doing the whole modelesque angry-at-the-camera deal.
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And we love Modano here. Most fans were outraged when Modano lost the captaincy. It was one reason that Doug Armstrong lost the GM job.
by Brad_Richards_Rocks on Aug 29, 2009 4:44 PM EDT up reply actions
How many teams have 4th liners that play undisciplined hockey as captain?
Considering Brashear was the A for large chunks of last year, I wouldn’t begrudge Clark from some poor play in his first games from a 4 month layoff, no.
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by Bald Pollack on Aug 28, 2009 2:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Absolutely. In the back of my mind, though, I hope he chooses to pass it on, and recommends someone for the job.
by DrinkingPartner on Aug 28, 2009 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Personally, I think the importance of who wears the C is way overblown in hockey along with the greatness of the Original Six. It’s not like the captain is leading hs troops on to the beach at Normandy. That said, I’d keep Clark as captain until his time is done with the Caps, which I think could be next season. He showed his faith in the Caps during the bad times and he deserves to not have the captaincy title stripped from him. And when Chris is gone, I’d vote to have Ovechkin get it because, quite simply, this is his team and it’s time for him to take on that honor. He’s mature enough now and his English is good enough that he should be able to handle whatever responsibilities come with the title without it affecting his play. And please, enough with the Laich hero worship. Brooks is a nice enough guy and I’m sure the Don Cherry crowd would applaud giving the captaincy to a good Canadian boy, but passing over Alex to give to Laich would be a huge slap in the face to Ovechkin. And when the Caps win it all, the first person to touch the Cup, if it’s not Clark, should be Alex.
by b.orr4 on Aug 28, 2009 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
It’s not like the captain is leading hs troops on to the beach at Normandy.
Rec’d for perspective.
I’d keep Clark as captain until his time is done with the Caps, which I think could be next season.
Rec’d for loyalty and rewarding character.
And when Chris is gone, I’d vote to have Ovechkin get it because, quite simply, this is his team and it’s time for him to take on that honor…..And please, enough with the Laich hero worship…but passing over Alex to give to Laich would be a huge slap in the face to Ovechkin.
And, rec’d for truth.
My approach to this vote didn’t involve some dramatic ripping the C off the chest incident and risk Favring/schisming the lockerroom. Thus, my vote for Ovie.
Well, when the question asks “should McPhee and Boudreau stick with #17 at the helm, or is it time for the franchise to do what many believe must be its destiny,” I think it’s a pretty clear implication that we’re not talking a wholly peaceful transfer of power.
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I kid, Pepper. I read the whole thing. This is just one of the few topics that get me fired up. My vote was solid when I read the headline.
Well, getting readers fired up is one of our favorite pastimes here. Quite a spirited debate for a Friday.
by Stephen Pepper on Aug 28, 2009 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions
I will admit that I got it wrong. Read the original post in a very hurried way and understood “who would you like to see wearing the C this season.”
I feel like a real jerk now for voting for Laich: (1) because Clark has earned the right not to have this happen to him and (2) because I disrespected Pepper by skimming the article. Dumb.
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Aug 28, 2009 4:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Don’t sweat it. If you’re like me, a lot of times you want to get to the comments section to see what is going on. That’s not disrespect, that’s a testament to the fact that all three of the moderators will take the time to interact with us and bounce thoughts off each other. Sometimes I learn just as much, or more, about the article based on what they follow up with in the comments.
We should print Rink shirts with that on it.
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If noting a player’s on- and off-ice leadership constitutes “hero worship”… guilty as charged.
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I agree completely.
"My face is my mask."
by Jake Shapiro on Aug 28, 2009 3:09 PM EDT up reply actions
I’d like Laich to be the Captain so that’s who I voted for but in real life I agree with JP that Chris should keep the C since he’s going into this season healthy. If he’s still not producing I think the Caps might be done with him come trade deadline.
He’s going to have to be given the opportunity to produce. Clark’s “production” from the 3rd/4th lines will most likely manifest itself on the bench and lockeroom. He keeps it until he’s no longer a cap.
Laich found a way to produce from the 3rd line. Clark should be able get more points than he has in the past two seasons combined.
Ultimately I don’t see any way switching to someone other than Clark is a good idea.
Everyone knows Ovechkin’s the leader on the ice and giving him the ‘C’ isn’t going to make him better. Everyone knows Laich’s a good locker room guy and a heart-and-soul player, and he will continue to be no matter who wears the ‘C’. Take it away from Clark and you risk upsetting him and, I’m sure, some of the other players and creating a locker room awkwardness/tension.
Take it away from Clark and you risk upsetting him and, I’m sure, some of the other players
Including Laich. If you (general “you,” not DMG) haven’t already, read this great piece when you’ve got some time to kill.
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by J.P. on Aug 28, 2009 1:45 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Do we have any proof or reason to believe that taking the C away from Clark would “upset” him enough to effect his/team’s play??
by that i mean.. if he’s the character guy that everyone says/believes… he shouldn’t need the C on his jersey to make any difference in him or his play, and I feel like he would have to understand where the team is coming from w/ his recent injuries, lack of production, and upcoming young stars.
Well, in that case it wouldn’t really be “taking it away from him” so much as a mutual understanding, and I don’t think anyone would have a problem with Clark voluntarily relinquishing his role.
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Wow. That is great stuff. After that I’m not sure Laich would take the C if Clark was still on the team. I could easily see him and AO telling BB/GMGM that they wouldn’t wear the C while he was there.
A man must have a code.
How do you explain the Mike Modano situation? Modano is a far better player than Clark, accomplished more, and was a more entrenched Captain. I was shocked when they did it but I don’t think it’s turned out that badly.
A man must have a code.
I think there are two key differences. One is that the Stars had a clear captain in waiting in Morrow, while the Caps don’t. The other is that Modano had only captained the two for two seasons, with the lockout year in between. There wasn’t a ton of continuity there.
Didn’t Modano willingly give it up too?
by red army line on Aug 28, 2009 1:51 PM EDT up reply actions
But Modano had been on the team and been a leader on the team since before they won the Cup. He had also been a leader on Team USA. I see the point about Morrow but I think if it can happen to Mike Modano franchise face and highest goal scoring American ever, it can happen to Chris Clark.
A man must have a code.
But realistically, look who we’re dealing with – Bruce and George are two of the most loyal people (to a fault, perhaps) I’ve ever seen in the sport. It simply ain’t gonna happen.
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And that ethic begins higher even than those two…
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Aug 28, 2009 5:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Ovechkin is not the clear captain in waiting? He’s been in the league 4 years and has back to back Harts. He’s ready to lead.
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I think Laich’s the heir apparent.
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I think Laich is and will be a great leader, but this is Ovie’s team, at least for the next 12 years.
Russian Machine Never Breaks
I don’t dispute that, but he doesn’t have to be burdened with the captaincy to lead or for it to be “his team.”
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I don’t think AO would see that as a burden. In fact, I might argue that AO is burning for the chance to be captain; he’s just a good teammate and not creating trouble about it.
by DrinkingPartner on Aug 28, 2009 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions
I do think there are burdens that come along with the captaincy. For example, talking to the media after a loss. That’s not to say that the captaincy is a PR job, but as of now, Laich is much more willing to talk to the press than AO is, and can better verbalize what he needs to say.
Let AO focus on the hockey – on the ice and in the room – and not the additional BS.
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If anything though, Ilya Kovalchuk got better when he got the C.
by red army line on Aug 28, 2009 5:45 PM EDT up reply actions
He’s the captain of a dogshit team that’s going nowhere fast and was only named captain as a no-cost throw-in to try to keep him in town. It’s apples-to-oranges.
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Even if Ovie doesn’t think it’d be a burden it’d be a role than came with more pressure, especially in light of the Penguin’s Cup win.
My choice would be for AO to lead us into battle, compared to anyone else on the team. Heaping amounts of pressure or not.
by DrinkingPartner on Aug 28, 2009 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions
How is he not doing that already?
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Because of what D says below – there’s a lot more to it than the on-ice aspect.
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Okay, but leading the team “into battle” is only a portion of what the captain does. He also holds players only meetings, addresses the team before and after losses, keeps everyone in touch in the offseason, helps manage personalities, etc.
And knowing what “we” know of him (I don’t think any of us here are actual insiders), what makes us think that AO isn’t ready or as capable as Laich? That’s what I’m trying to figure out, because I just don’t see it, yet.
by DrinkingPartner on Aug 28, 2009 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions
And knowing what "we" know of him (I don’t think any of us here are actual insiders), what makes us think that AO isn’t ready or as capable as Laich?
- He loses his temper on the ice and takes bad penalties at times.
- His English isn’t great, so he’s less likely to be able to articulate to the players what needs to be said.
- He is, himself, larger than life personality-wise and very blunt. I don’t know he has the tact to manage twenty different guys personalities simultaneously.
I don’t doubt he’s a great teammate and leader, I just don’t know if he’s better than Laich.
To be fair, Clark also takes bad penalties when angry, but I’ll agree with his bluntness. He is very straight spoken, so it seems, and that could be detrimental. However, I would argue that probably isn’t an issue because he seems to be plenty blunt with Semin, who seems fairly sensitive toward rebuke.
by DrinkingPartner on Aug 28, 2009 3:13 PM EDT up reply actions
It’s not just the captain though. I’m sure the two alternates pick up some of those offseason/administrative duties. I’m sure Ovie would be great at delegation.
“Brooksie, give all the boys a call this week to see how they are doing. I’ll be at my dacha in Moscow.”
Can you imagine the reverse?
“Alex, give the boys a call this week to see how they’re doing. I’ll be fishing in Wawota”
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Aug 28, 2009 5:12 PM EDT up reply actions
the Stars had a clear captain in waiting in Morrow, while the Caps don’t
I disagree. The Caps have AO and Laich. I personally choose AO because it would essentially just be a formality at this point anyway. He already does everything expected of the Captaincy (incl. talking to the Refs, showing the kids the ropes, etc.).
On any other team, AO would likely already be captain, and Laich wouldn’t be too far behind.
by DrinkingPartner on Aug 28, 2009 2:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Right, the Capitals have Ovechkin and Laich.
When Morrow was named the captain it was right after he’d signed an extension (six years, iirc) and was the unquestioned next captain – I think the feeling was ‘this is the future, why not make the future now?’ With the Caps I think you’re looking at Laich as the captain in 2-3 years and Ovechkin as the captain in 5+.
by David Getz on Aug 28, 2009 2:40 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Well what happens once Laich has the C? Do we do this all over again, just replace Clark with Laich?
Fehr is fair, but I like Laich
If Laich is wearing the ‘C’ it’ll most likely either be because Clark has given it up or left the team.
I know, I meant how does it get to OV? Does Laich leave too? Or does he give it up? My point is that you said that Laich gets the C in 2-3, and then OV has it in 5+. How does it transfer?
Fehr is fair, but I like Laich
Ah, I see what you meant there. I though you meant ‘replace Laich with Clark as captain’ rather than ‘replace Clark with Laich in the discussion’.
That’s a good question. It seems like most of the players acknowledge that Ovechkin’s going to be the captain eventually – maybe if Laich heads in with that knowledge he knows his tenure will be brief and will be willing to hand it over if asked?
I feel like the next captain is going to be captain until his time is up with the team. I dont think BB and the staff will pick Laich, knowing that in 2 or 3 years time they will just give it to OV. If they know that it will eventually go down to Ovechkin than why dont they just give it to him first and skip the drama that might come with an interim. Or give it to Laich and, like a lot of people have said already, let OV worry about the game and not the media
Fehr is fair, but I like Laich
I feel like the next captain is going to be captain until his time is up with the team. I dont think BB and the staff will pick Laich, knowing that in 2 or 3 years time they will just give it to OV.
I agree, but I wasn’t talking about a situation where coaching staff gives it to Laich knowing they’ll be yanking it back in a couple seasons. I’m talking about a situation where they go to Laich and say, ‘Look, Brooks, we all know Ovechkin’s the future captain of this franchise but we/he don’t feel ready yet. Would you like to lead the time until he comes into his own as a leader?’
I don’t understand why Laich gets it now when AO doesn’t. As I said above (or below, i don’t even remember now), the only deciding factor in my mind is the fact that Laich is a native English speaker. I don’t think you can question AO’s leadership ability.
by DrinkingPartner on Aug 28, 2009 2:57 PM EDT up reply actions
I think Laich should be the next captain, but I’m not ready to see Clark “stripped” of it right now. If he wants to give it up then it has to happen, obviously, but I don’t think it’s at the point where we need to make him give it up.
Now that doesn’t mean I would be unhappy to see him possibly shipped out if he isn’t fitting (although that’s likely not a realistic occurrence any way you slice it). But for now he’s the captain, and I don’t think these past two seasons are enough to make change something necessary – yet.
Isn’t it worse to just trade the Captain instead of stripping him? Trading him says you don’t even want him on the team. Just curious, does anyone have an idea if it’s more common to strip a C or trade a C?
A man must have a code.
Most likely I think is he doesn’t get a new deal.
by red army line on Aug 28, 2009 1:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Isn’t it worse to just trade the Captain instead of stripping him?
No. Trading a player doesn’t say to him, “You’re no longer good enough at what we thought you were good at, i.e. being a leader” for the world to see.
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In fact, trading him says “your new team wanted you to play for them…”
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Aug 28, 2009 5:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Right, but keeping him says “we still value your contribution on the ice, we just don’t think you’re the right guy to lead the team.” If you’re playing someone still wants you, that’s true. But I’d bet right now Clark wants the Caps to value his on-ice contributions more than any other team.
A man must have a code.
said it before, ill say it again
its game seven national tv, the capitals just won the stanley cup,
gary bettman waddles out to the little table to a crowd and boos and declares CHRIS CLARK COME TAKE THE STANLEY CUP…
and at that moment you could lean out your window and hear a million viewers mutter “who?”
even if he does the beer-on-a-bar slide of the cup right to ovechkin without picking it up, its still kinda embarassing to think about him taking it first..
Couldn’t disagree more. After this guy took a puck in the mouth – and finished his shift, took a puck in the ear, and has dropped the gloves for this team on numerous occasions, you’d be embarrassed to see him take the Cup from Bettman?
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by J.P. on Aug 28, 2009 2:01 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
What the hell man? It’s embarrassing? This guy has worked his butt off for the team and for the community. Interesting that in your fantasy of the Caps winning the Cup you have thought multiple times about how lowly Clark is.
ok here we go
1) do NOT make assumptions upon my meaning, if you don’t know, ask, penguin-lover.
2)I own TWO jerseys one is clark and one is iafrate…so anyone else who is ASSUMING some kind of hate can suck it.
Here is the meaning that no one bothered to ask. Clark is 33 years old and nagging injuries and advancing age mean that his playing time (ASSUMING he’s even healthy enough to play and playing well enough not to lose his roster spot to a rookie) will be severally limited by the time a stanley cup finals roll around
now lets assume we do get to the finals…does anyone really think that Alex Ovechkin will not be our most valuable player in such an endeavor? a leader both on the ice in points and off the ice in determination and confidence…
what IS embarassing is that the best player on the team (and i might add the CLEAR leader) wouldn’t be the first one called up to get the cup for the simple reason that the francise refused to correct a glaring error. Although it makes perfect sense that you wouldn’t mind there being no change…its exactly what the penguins would do.
by luketheriault on Aug 28, 2009 6:00 PM EDT up reply actions
its exactly what the penguins would do
I don’t care personally if it brings a Cup to DC.
by red army line on Aug 28, 2009 6:04 PM EDT up reply actions
1) do NOT make assumptions upon my meaning, if you don’t know, ask, penguin-lover.
You said " its still kinda embarassing to think about [Clark] taking it first.." J.P. said “you’d be embarrassed to see him take the Cup from Bettman?” I don’t see how there could be very much, if any, misinterpretation there. I mean, really, assuming J.P. has any affinity towards the Penguins based on his comments in a much, much larger leap.
now lets assume we do get to the finals…does anyone really think that Alex Ovechkin will not be our most valuable player in such an endeavor? a leader both on the ice in points and off the ice in determination and confidence…
what IS embarassing is that the best player on the team (and i might add the CLEAR leader) wouldn’t be the first one called up to get the cup for the simple reason that the francise refused to correct a glaring error.
It’s certainly possible Ovechkin wouldn’t be the team’s best player under those circumstances. And even if he were the best player it’s not like him not being the captain would be a horrible and embarrassing precedent: of the last ten Conn Smyth winners only one (Scott Stevens) was the captain of his team at the time.
But the issue is who should be the captain is not the same as the issue of who the team’s best player is. The best example recent history is probably Jagr – he was the captain of the Penguins for three years and led the NHL in scoring each year and won a Hart and two Pearsons. But there’s no way I would have wanted him to captain my team. Now lemme say, obviously Ovechkin’s no Jagr and I’m not trying to suggest he is, just pointing out the flaw in the ‘best/most valuable player should automatically be the captain’ logic.
Finally, where is your evidence Ovechkin is the “clear” leader? Writing it using the caps lock doesn’t count.
Although it makes perfect sense that you wouldn’t mind there being no change…its exactly what the penguins would do.
First off….this makes no sense. Secondly there are much worse things in the world than hoping your team emulates the Stanley Cup and two-time Eastern Conference Champions.
by David Getz on Aug 28, 2009 7:16 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
There it is.
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by Bald Pollack on Aug 28, 2009 9:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Also, what’s the ‘glaring error’ here? Not making Ovechkin captain? He was offered it and declined. Not making him the captain now? I would think stripping the captaincy of a guy who’s well respected, who has sacrificed for the team, and who’s leading what everyone thinks is a good locker room has the potential to be a glaring error.
who’s leading what everyone thinks is a good locker room
Me thinks this is the most important point of the entire thread. IMO the two most important roles of a Captain are to control the locker room and talk with the refs. I can’t think of another team that has so little animosity in the locker room (that’s reported anywho)…quite the opposite, all reports indicate this team gets along from top-to-bottom. Why…WHY…would anyone want to meddle right now? To the best that I can tell, there are no factions in the locker room….cliques maybe, but no factions. And that my friends is no small feat in this day and age.
What’s that time tested phrase? Don’t try to fix what ain’t broken or something?
if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.
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by crabchowdah on Aug 28, 2009 10:33 PM EDT up reply actions
And there’s always the old classic we’ve seen here before…
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Aug 29, 2009 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
gary bettman waddles out to the little table to a crowd and boos and declares CHRIS CLARK COME TAKE THE STANLEY CUP…
and at that moment you could lean out your window and hear a million viewers mutter "who?"
When considering the qualities that make a good captain at the NHL level ‘national name recognition’ ain’t on my list.
Somewhat (but not really) related, this FanPost.
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I don’t think you’re accusing me of it, but I’m just going to be clear that I never said anything about being embarrassed that Clark was our Captain.
A man must have a code.
Not at all – I just recalled your “who will Gary hand the Cup to” FanPost and thought I’d pop in the link to it as somewhat (but not really) related.
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Currently, 73% of people voting here think that George or Bruce should rip the “C” off Clarkie’s sweater right now. Unreal.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
I’d venture to say that a lot of those people (myself included) don’t actually think Clark should be “stripped” of the C, just that AO or Brooks would be a more ideal choice. I guess I see “who should be the captain?” and “should Clark be stripped of the C?” as two different questions.
That’s fair. I guess I don’t know how you get from “Clark is the captain” to “Laich is the captain” without “Clark is stripped of the C” (in light of his stated reluctance to relinquish it), but I can buy that.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
Clark suffers career-ending injury in training camp; Laich becomes captain.
See? Simple.
/not wishing for this at all
by Scott in Shaw on Aug 28, 2009 3:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Though the cap relief…
/not wishing for this at all
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I think this thread is officially over :-).
by DrinkingPartner on Aug 28, 2009 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions
I wasn’t factoring that at all (though I guess I should have been). I was just reading the question as “starting today, who do you think would be the best choice for captain?” I wasn’t thinking at all about how the team would get there.
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Aug 28, 2009 5:19 PM EDT up reply actions
What’s more unreal is hearing some Caps fans talk like Ovechkin not wearing a C is proof that Ted and GMGM aren’t serious about the team. I’ve never understood why so many fans need Ovechkin to be named captain. He seems to be fine about it.
What’s more unreal is hearing some Caps fans talk like Ovechkin not wearing a C is proof that Ted and GMGM aren’t serious about the team.
What’s unreal to me is that people can watch Leonsis pour tens of millions of dollars in to the team and watch McPhee work 60 hour weeks and think they’re not serious.
I’ve never understood why so many fans need Ovechkin to be named captain.
It’s a knee-jerk best-player-should-be-the-captain reaction from people who don’t realize that’s not always the case.
With an undertone of “you-know-who is a captain…”
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Probably. I’m just sensitive about the best-player-as-captain-automatically because everyone seemed to follow that train of thought on some of the teams I’ve been on and we’d end up voting a pouty, primadonna showoff as our leader.
by David Getz on Aug 28, 2009 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Good players can turn a game around with offense or heart, rather than just heart. Not all good players make good captains, but that offense is a good quality to have in a captain.
by red army line on Aug 28, 2009 2:20 PM EDT up reply actions
How does Loungo play into that?? just curious of ur opinion on that. (as it’s usually much more rational than mine)
he’s their best player… and the nucks made their goalie a captain… but it’s totally awkward and is/was it the only option they had??
I’ve been a goalie Captain of two teams but I had to wear the A instead of C like Lou.
It’s a little weird because you don’t get to talk to the players on the bench and stuff but that’s what your other two A’s are for.
You get to carry a lot of weight in the locker room, face-offs in your zone, and just general talk before\after games.
My thought is Lou didn’t get it just because he’s the best player.
I’m really not familiar enough with the Canucks to speak with much authority but I’ve heard Luongo is a good teammates, a hard worker, and so on. The move makes sense to me.
You don’t think that maybe it was a carrot for a guy who’s soon to be a free agent?
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Is the main reason people want Laich as “C” just because he’s a native English speaker? Because I think it would be very difficult to argue against AO, otherwise, as to who’s more deserving of the honor.
by DrinkingPartner on Aug 28, 2009 2:43 PM EDT up reply actions
To be perfectly blunt, I don’t think any of us, as outsiders, are good judges of who best to lead the team.
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by J.P. on Aug 28, 2009 2:44 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Well sure, but we’re the ones arguing, so it might as well be our viewpoints and opinions we’re basing this on :-).
by DrinkingPartner on Aug 28, 2009 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions
I would be floored if GMGM only works 60 hour weeks.
by Knee high to a duck on Aug 28, 2009 8:12 PM EDT up reply actions
seems to me that since crosby has the C… that some feel (not so much here at the rink) that Ovechkin isn’t good enough, or enough of a leader…
I don’t believe in the “letter” … I believe in the play. not to say that the captain doesn’t provide certain great qualities… but I feel like everyone should aspire to give 110% and do whats best for the team… then again I have been accused of being naive a time or two…
Are we honestly comparing AO to Yashin? These are two of the most polar opposite players in both style and personality that you could find.
by DrinkingPartner on Aug 28, 2009 2:44 PM EDT up reply actions
No… I believe F&B was pointing out my naivety of wanting to believe that “everyone should aspire to give 110% and do whats best for the team”
no comparison between the two players.
Gotcha, the side of me that saw Yashin in a “C” got me in a tizzy ;-).
by DrinkingPartner on Aug 28, 2009 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t think Crosby should have the C. I feel like it was thrust on him so that he could be the youngest C in the league and further his legend. He’s undisciplined and lets his emotions get the better of him. He also does really stupid things like ask the refs to broadcast a message to the fans to stop throwing hats after a hat trick.
More evidence: His nads shot. His sucker punch off the face off.
Last year when the Pens were hurting, it seemed like he was doing nothing to help the situation, perhaps making it worse.
Maybe this year he’ll be more of an actual leader.
I see Ovie as a hot shot, superb player. Very firey, naturally talented. I just have a feeling like he’s too good to be captain. Hard to explain.
I really hadn’t heard the “Ovechkin not wearing a C is proof that Ted and GMGM aren’t serious about the team.” Luckily, people seem to know better than to bring that brand of idiocy to this site.
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We specialize in completely different brands of idiocy!
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Aug 28, 2009 5:23 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m fine with Ovechkin wearing an A until he’s much older.
I didn’t agree with Crosby getting the C but I guess it worked out fine for them.
personally I think crosby is too much of a whiner to deserve the C. but he does have some good qualities and does produce.
Crosby has matured since he first got the C very prematurely. But no question about his work ethic and willingness to play in the corners and in front of the net.
by red army line on Aug 28, 2009 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah, i take nothing away from his play… i think he’s awesome to watch. (i do still hate him FWIW) …. and you’re right, he has matured a lot, but I’m having trouble getting over that “whiney” label he created for himself.
and how many captains sucker-punch a guy on a face-off and reverse-sack-punch another guy?? you stay classy sid.
That classy captain in the youngest such to hold the Cup, and it appears the team does just fine in the room.
Can we put this meme to bed?
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by Bald Pollack on Aug 28, 2009 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Maybe, but for the one aside I made to my daughter during the playoffs, which was that he’s such a good captain that his whole team was whining like he does. I forget if it was during our series or later, but it amazed me how much there was. But that’s all outward appearances, but that’s all we see, anyway.
I grate at excessive ref chatter like everyone else, but if it gains even a little advantage in a sport with subjective calls, it’s a necessary evil. Working the refs didn’t help Phil Jackson getting 10 trophies, but it didn’t hurt either.
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by Bald Pollack on Aug 28, 2009 3:13 PM EDT up reply actions
I found my notes. It was during our series, and it had little to do with the refs, it was all whining about how the Caps were playing (read “cheating”).
You’ve got notes? You must work in the government. ;)
Sid can still work the refs in the press, I don’t think that’s a big deal. If it works even a little, you do it. Hats on the other hand…
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by Bald Pollack on Aug 28, 2009 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Agreed. I think the “AO for captain” hew and cry has as much (if not more) to do with the fact that Crosby and Richards are captains of their respective teams than it has to do with AO having greater leadership/captain-like qualties than Laich.
Making AO captain will add nothing to AO’s game and might in fact detract from it. Making Laich the captain might have the same effect as putting Semin on the PK- with greater responsibility may come greater performances.
That said, IMO it would be disasterous to strip Clark of the C and hand it to either AO or Laich at this point. I see nothing but awkwardness, team disfunction and uncertainty resulting.
by ChrisAm on Aug 28, 2009 3:35 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Boy- a lot posts can come in by the time you add your 2 cents via your phone.
by ChrisAm on Aug 28, 2009 3:41 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
At no time did I even remotely consider who the captains were on other teams when I voted for Ovechkin.
I don’t get why people think Ovie’s votes are based on “knee jerk” reactions to Crosby.
Because some of them are. Others are because people have small penises and want the guy with the most points to have the C on his sweater. Still others are because they believe AO to be the best leader on the team.
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I like Clark keeping the C at the beginning of this season… unless he gets hurt AGAIN or continues to not produce… then I think you use it as a “message sender”
Coach already called him out in the media once before, and if his play doesn’t improve from what we’ve seen the last two seasons, this could be a real good way to send a 2nd message. The Captain usually doesn’t have to fix a discipline portion of his game. You lose your voice in the locker room if you’re not setting the best example you possibly can, right? Perhaps it would help to know what everyone thinks are the qualities a Captain should display, in order, and then compare how Clark handles those as opposed to any other challenger for the honor. On-ice performance is a good part of it of course, but maybe Clark still does the other intangibles better than anyone else is willing/capable of doing?
OV’s still pretty young and he may not want all the additional burden, he’s doing more than his fair share already both from a playing standpoint as well as the off-ice stuff he does to promote his team and the NHL itself. But his career arch so far suggests that he’d do just fine with the ‘C’. For $124 million, one would hope he wouldn’t turn down a little extra work for that honor.
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by war_capitals on Aug 28, 2009 3:16 PM EDT up reply actions
I think part of what makes a great captain (not just good) is that when the team struggles, the captain can put forth a great individual effort to turn the game around. Ovechkin certainly can do it. Laich and Clark have to opt more times than not for a “heart” type play like fighting or shot blocking rather than an offensive play.
If Clark has another major injury, give Ovechkin the C, I say.
Btw, for everyone who puts a lot of stock in the “C,” how about the fact that for years the Caps’ real captain didn’t wear the letter, but goalie pads?
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by J.P. on Aug 28, 2009 2:24 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Are you arguing that we shouldn’t give it to a player whom can actually legally wear it, then, just because he can “lead unofficially?”
by DrinkingPartner on Aug 28, 2009 2:47 PM EDT up reply actions
no. I was asking if Lou got the C as “the best player” or if he was actually the best choice for the team.
DMG said he wasn’t familiar enough w/ the Canucks to answer…
Okay, reply fail. That was intended for JP. Sorry, Sco.
by DrinkingPartner on Aug 28, 2009 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions
I think it has something to do with conversations with refs…not sure how I that.
Per a Yahoo answer…no idea if it’s 100% right or not.
The role of the Captain, apart from the obvious ones, like pumping up the team, or having the most experience, best player etc. Is that the Captain (And Assistant Captains) are the only ones who can approach and talk to the referee after a stoppage of play. (Most likely to question a call, call a time out, ask for a review of a goal etc.) The Captain must stand outside of a painted half-circle in front of the timekeepers box to ask these questions. The timekeepers box is almost always at the center ice line. Here’s where it gets stupid. The rule is, that the Goalie, after a stoppage of play, should not cross the blue line of his own end, except to get equipment repairs or a shot of water at his own bench. This eliminates his ability to go over to the timekeepers bench to ask questions of the referee. This rule is hardly enforced anymore, but it’s there. Hence, the Goalie is hardly adequate to fulfill his duties as an on-ice Captain.
No. I’m saying that there’s a hell of a lot more to leadership than who has a letter on his chest and who doesn’t.
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We agree on this statement, I’m just trying to figure out why people think that Laich > Ovechkin in terms of this.
by DrinkingPartner on Aug 28, 2009 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, for one, his (Laich’s) willingness to meet with the media after tough losses (in my limited experience). His personality is also much more even-keeled, which I think is a plus for that role.
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I agree. When I think of Laich in a tough spot I think of calm, measured responses and blunt but tactful assessments of the team’s failings. When I think of Ovechkin getting upset I think of him taking retaliatory penalties and smashing his ipod because someone had the audacity to call out his buddy for his horrendous and continuous lack of discipline (yes that was a number of years ago, but…)
I remember him breaking stuff (sticks, iPods, etc.) because he was in the middle of a terrible goal drought. Also, 3 years have passed since then.
by DrinkingPartner on Aug 28, 2009 3:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Dont forget car axles, from the E60 piece.
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by Bald Pollack on Aug 28, 2009 3:16 PM EDT up reply actions
I remember him breaking stuff (sticks, iPods, etc.) because he was in the middle of a terrible goal drought.
Afterward the players met for about 15 minutes behind closed doors. Although no one would divulge exactly what was said, when the meeting ended, all-star left wing Alex Ovechkin emerged from the locker room and smashed his stick repeatedly against the wall and a trash can until it broke into four pieces, according to those who witnessed the episode. Ovechkin’s iPod and headphones also were destroyed, crumpled in the hallway.
Ovechkin and Semin, who are close friends and who were linemates on Saturday, left without speaking to the media. Asked why he thought Ovechkin was so angry, Kolzig said: “I’m sure he’s probably frustrated with what happened and in the meeting. And that’s really all I’m going to say. It wasn’t targeted at Ovie. He’s obviously our guy. But it was something he didn’t want to hear.”
Nowhere does it mention his “goal drought” (four games at the time). It’s also indicative of another potential problem – Ovechkin seems have his clique and to favor Russian players.
What do you mean by “favor Russian players”? And there isn’t a group of people of any size that doesn’t usually form cliques. The same can be said of the North Americans on the Caps. Might they have formed their clique first? It only hurts when it starts to isolate an individual or two.
Nyls told me to throw that last sentence in.
3 years ago, maybe, when that happened. Right now, coming from the end of the playoffs last season, none of the particular flaws he has are deal-breakers to me. And he has matured noticeably since his 2nd year.
by DrinkingPartner on Aug 28, 2009 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions
If you thought “hot stick” was bad last year, imagine if he pulled that crap with the “C” on his sweater.
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I can honestly say I wouldn’t care. AO explained himself atfer he did last year, and that was satisfactory. It’d be interesting with AO as Captain.
by DrinkingPartner on Aug 28, 2009 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, he might improve, right? When the early 90s Wings couldn’t win with Yzerman as captain, Yzerman turned it around, setting a new work ethic and focus on working hard on defense.
by red army line on Aug 28, 2009 5:52 PM EDT up reply actions
my only hesitations w/ OV are due to maturity…
on ice – i feel as if OV does get a little over exuberant at times (after goals “hot stick”, or penalties against him)
off ice – the OV/Green Verizon center cart incident… in my mind, I don’t picture Laich doing that.
could just be two different personalities… but when I think of a captain, I think of a “laich” personality over an OV one. (Clark fits into that “laich” mold in my head as well)
it’s just personal opinion I think…
off ice – the OV/Green Verizon center cart incident… in my mind, I don’t picture Laich doing that.
I could. I think sometimes we attribute too much maturity to him because he’s so good with the media.
Same here.
I just can’t think of any time I’ve seen Laich do something I thought was immature and I can think of several for Ovie.
These are valid concerns, though I’d argue against maturity, just in that Ovechkin rises to the occassion. I have a hard time believing that he would do something to make us regret giving him the captaincy – that’s just not the type of person he’s shown us these past 4 years.
by DrinkingPartner on Aug 28, 2009 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions
But you don’t give someone the captaincy and expect/hope them to do what they need (that’s what ’A’s can be used for), you give someone the captaincy when they’ve demonstrated they’re ready to take it on.
In those particular set of requirements, I’d say they’re both too young for the job, then. After all, Laich’s not as big as AO, so we have no idea what he does behind closed doors, except hang out with Mike Green. And so does AO. Maybe instead of a golf cart, it’d be heavy metal at 4am in Green’s new hot tub?
by DrinkingPartner on Aug 28, 2009 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions
In those particular set of requirements, I’d say they’re both too young for the job, then. After all, Laich’s not as big as AO, so we have no idea what he does behind closed doors, except hang out with Mike Green. And so does AO. Maybe instead of a golf cart, it’d be heavy metal at 4am in Green’s new hot tub?
I didn’t mention either age (Mike Richards is the same age as Ovechkin and younger than Laich for all intents and purposes) or what they do in their personal lives (which, unless it’s illegal or involves other player’s wives, is irrelevant).
This season Laich’s shown poise and thoughtfulness when he’s spoken with the media under all circumstances and showed that he can be a leader among his teammates, as evidenced by his response to allegations that steroids had been dealt to the Capitals while Ovechkin’s blunt, lacks tact, and demonstrated a tendency to take bad penalties and immaturity in the form of the “hot stick” celebration.
The on-ice immaturity argument is a stretch. One hot stick celebration does not equal a “tendency”.
The lack of discipline with regard to penalties I can’t argue with.
How ’bout the borderline charging?
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‘[B]orderline’ being the operative word. He doesn’t jump into people, he just hits hard.
Again, it’s not as if Clark is innocent of anything Alex has done, excepting heated sticks.
by DrinkingPartner on Aug 28, 2009 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Again, it’s not as if Clark is innocent of anything Alex has done, excepting heated sticks.
Again, the issue isn’t that Ovechkin has done something that merits disqualification – it’s that Clark and Laich are better options.
I disagree that Laich is a “better” option – I like them both. Clark is just as guilty of emotional play/penalties as AO is, so I don’t think that’s necessarily a bad thing for AO’s candidacy.
by DrinkingPartner on Aug 28, 2009 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions
But no one said Clark was perfect. I think we’d all agree he’d be a better player (and captain) if he took fewer penalties.
What makes you think Ovechkin is a stronger option that Laich?
Because he’s taking over for Olie. He’s the de facto team leader, and already assumes all of the Captaincy responsibilities. I’m advocating for officiality, is all.
by DrinkingPartner on Aug 28, 2009 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions
He’s the de facto team leader, and already assumes all of the Captaincy responsibilities.
In what sense? Laich’s response to the steroid allegations seems more ‘captain-esque’ than anything Ovechkin’s done.
Well, so wait, are we arguing that AO’s the leader on the ice and Laich’s the leader off?
by DrinkingPartner on Aug 28, 2009 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Perhaps – I would absolutely not dispute that Ovechkin’s the leader on the ice and Laich seems like the locker room leader to me. In my opinion, that’s the guy who should get the ‘C’ because they on ice leader is going to lead on ice no matter what.
Okay, well, that just sends this debate in all sorts of new directions :-).
Well, I guess my question now would be whether or not you think the duties off ice can’t be done similarly well, or simply delegated, by AO?
by DrinkingPartner on Aug 28, 2009 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, I guess my question now would be whether or not you think the duties off ice can’t be done similarly well, or simply delegated, by AO?
I don’t know for sure, but my feeling is sort of that Laich, because he’s more even keeled and a better communicator, would probably be better in the role and that the delegation of those off-ice roles would be undesirable because they’re the core of what the captain does.
To me the captaincy is somewhat an administrative position and I’m not sure that’s the kind of thing Ovechkin would be great at.
I dunno, AO can sure get hisse’f some honeys via his various admins when he wants them, so he knows how to work the system.
And yes, Laich’s definitely got the NHLPA pedigree, so he’s got more experience dealing with his teammates in that sense, I just can’t say for sure that that experience is more valuable to the team with him as “Captain” as opposed to “Assistant Captain.” It’s in my opinion that the leadership on the ice is more valuable in who gets the “C” on their jersey, during the game, literally leading the team in a game.
I think I’d rather have AO on the ice leading the team in the game itself, with the Assistants taking care of the “administrative side” so to speak. I think it speaks loudly to have AO as Captain in the middle of a game.
by DrinkingPartner on Aug 28, 2009 4:37 PM EDT up reply actions
What do we really know about how that played out? How do we know that the front office didn’t ask Laich to do that? Or that a couple players reached out to everyone and it was just Laich that was quoted?
If the front office asked Laich to do it, it was because of his relationship with the players and his presence in the locker room.
Maybe other players did, but we didn’t hear about it. Does it make a difference?
I’m just not onboard with it being used as evidence that Laich would make a better captain than Ovechkin. To me, he was just putting out a fire. If it was “captain-esque”, why didn’t Clark do it?
Ovie’s relationship with the players and his presence in the locker room is equal, if not better, than Laich’s.
Ovie’s relationship with the players and his presence in the locker room is equal, if not better, than Laich’s.
What makes you say that?
What makes you question that statement? Since we’re all speculating here, seems like a very reasonable thing to say based on game observation, practice observation, public relations pieces, newspaper coverage.
What makes you question that statement?
That there wasn’t any evidence given to support it.
My feeling is that the in the locker room stuff is something that you’re not going to see in practice or games, and definitely not in PR pieces. Maybe somewhat in the press, but those are the same things that have given me the indication that Laich’s the locker room leader.
I’d lump that into the lack of discipline part of his game. That’s not immaturity to me. That’s an inability to harness your emotion when required.
It’s easier to fix discipline problems than maturity problems.
Isn’t inability to harness your emotion a sign on immaturity? I’ve always felt it was.
by David Getz on Aug 28, 2009 4:01 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Then Clark’s the same way. he’s gotten himself some pretty bad penalties when he was angry, too.
by DrinkingPartner on Aug 28, 2009 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions
I see this quickly devolving into a semantics debate. It can easily be argued that:
Immaturity = Lack of discipline
Lack of discipline = immaturity
Which comes first? Or is two different flaws? The bottom line is that I don’t think Ovie is nearly deficient in either to warrant him not being given the captaincy of the team.
I just can’t think of any time I’ve seen Laich do something I thought was immature and I can think of several for Ovie.
Well, part (but not all) of that is because Laich isn’t a big name player, so what he does isn’t going to get as much media attention as something that Ovie does.
(someone’s probably already made this point, but I haven’t scrolled down yet, so sorry in advance)
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by Scott in Shaw on Aug 28, 2009 3:57 PM EDT up reply actions
To me, this is a non-starter as an issue. A “captain” is, by definition, a leader. He might be good at it (Langway), or he might be bad at it (Jaromir Jagr with the Penguins comes to mind). But there is another side to this that seems underrated — those who follow a captain. Any time there is the potential to remove a sitting leader and have him remain in the room, there is the potential for division in the room. In this case, those who support Clark, and those who would support his successor. Clark sitting there each night, dressing without a “C” on his jersey puts that sort of division in stark relief.
Why create a situation, or at least the potential for it, when it doesn’t have to happen? Alex Ovechkin might be a fine captain someday (I don’t happen to think October 1, 2009 is it; you may differ). But I don’t think it’s something he — or any other Capital — is campaigning for, which would be indicative to me of the residual support Clark has in the room. Clark’s performance over the past season-plus is not a product of deterioration of skill as much as it is physical problems. That’s not to say he’ll ever regain a 30-goal scoring touch (I doubt it on this team), but he has the potential to contribute in a lot of other ways, tangible and intangible, that suggest a leader the rest of the team would happily follow.
That’s captain enough for me.
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by ThePeerless on Aug 28, 2009 2:29 PM EDT reply actions 3 recs
I agree w/ all of that… but Clark seems like the type of guy (to me) that would say “ya know what, I don’t have the C, but I’m still gonna lead” …and he’d hop right behind Brooks, or OV, or whomever and pull those dissenters w/ him.
As things stand, I think Clark has to keep the captaincy. I voted for Laich, though, because the questions I read up at the top of the page, in context, seemed to me to read like, “which would be best for the franchise?”
I think Laich combines a lot of those hard-nosed, emulative qualities you want your team to take as an example, combined with being on the ice and performing such that your captain does have an impact.
I don’t want Clark stripped of his C. The locker room seems to have been very good in his tenure, right? I say, let him keep it and hope that, if he realizes he just can’t get on the ice and contribute for this team anymore after a third injury-plagued season, he’s groomed Laich during those Christmas visits to take the reins.
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Exactley what I did. Just because I think Laich should be the captain doesnt mean I think Clark should be stripped of the C. And I think thats why Laich is winning this poll by such a large margin. Us fans understand the division that would be created if the C was taken from CC. But they also would be happy if he wilingly gave it up to someone, and that someone was Laich
Fehr is fair, but I like Laich
Im a canes fan here, so outside of watching AO’s raw talent in highlight reels and youtube i dont see much of you guys. Is he the favorite just because he’s your best player, or is he really a leader? I know that the Pens made Crosby the capt. and Chi did the same with Toews. But Im left wondering if maybe those guys should just lead by example and let some other veteran wear the “C” so they can focus on what they do best, scoring. If Brindy were stripped of his captaincy, I’d rather it go to somone like Gleason, or Whitney. Staals a great leader, it comes naturally to him, “C” or no “C” hes gonna do his thing, and say all the same things anyway. I’d rather him not have the burden of feeling like hes gotta say something extra.
Ovie is a leader, particularly for the younger Russian guys, but for everyone, too. And most fans here have no problem with Ovie being an on-ice leader and wearing an A and letting a guy like Clark or Laich who seem to really enjoy dealing with the media do that often thankless task. Ovie does wear an “A”
I say it stays with Clarkie. I know he has been injured but when healthy he is the perfect captain. Also, he impressed the hell out of me a couple years ago and no I am not talking about his season.
It was the middle of April and the regular season had just ended a week ago. I was at Kettler’s getting a new hockey stick and I saw 1 lone player on the ice practicing. I went over and saw Clark working by himself. He had around 100 pucks on the ice and he was just practicing his shot, picking corners, blasting a slapper, etc… The season had just ended and he was there working on his game for next year.
Of all the stuff I have heard/read about Clarkie, he is the first one in and the last one to leave. He works as hard (or harder) then anyone and that’s why I think he should still be the captain. I really hope he gets back to his old 30 goal scoring self because he could easily play on the top line with Ovie and Nicky or be our net crasher on the 2nd line with Sasha and BMo. Not saying that’s where he should be but just that he could be.
After that I say that Brooks should be the next captain.
I personally believe it should stay with Clark. If he gets injured this season for an extended period of time – then put the C on someone else (Laich or Ovi IMO).
But don’t strip the C off of Clark. He hasn’t lost his right to be the Captain.
Now with that said, I wouldn’t be surprised if he passes the C along to AO. If he does that, that just shows the kind of guy Captain Clark is.
Sounds like Clark is pretty important to this club...yes?
Then why does his team rank make him irrelevant? I know JP is probably sick of me saying this, but I am either a hopeless imbecile or I dont inderstand the rankings.
I am not challenging the integrity of those who did not rank Clark IN THE TOP TWENTY FIVE most important Caps.
Curse the rankings, I say – I think there is a bit of hypocrisy in what people are posting here and how they physically rank him, per point totals, on this squad . I would think that Clark, in terms of his heart and soul leadership qualities, would be WAY higher – al least I am inferring from these many stirring comments. Who wouldn’t love Chris Clark?
His spiritual presence (not the Jimmy Swaggert version of spiritual, but his ability to affect the young players) would make him at least the 5th or 6th most important Cap.
What am I missing?
Sounds like Clark is pretty important to this club…yes?
Sounds to me like not upsetting the room is more important. If we asked the question “If Chris Clark voluntarily gave the C to Laich/Ovechkin, would you have a problem with it?” it might be a unanimous vote.
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What am I missing?
“Should the Capitals take this guy’s captaincy away and risk upsetting the locker room dynamic?” and “how valuable, considering age, salary history, trade value, etc?” are different questions and are going to have different criteria go into the answers.
IMO, a captain needs to be on the ice, not just in the locker room. Look at the recent Stanley Cup winners. If Clark isn’t on the battlefield enough to be relevant anymore, either due to injury or by an inability to adapt and therefore, play meaningful minutes in the most important games of his career (the playoffs), should he be a captain? Maybe not.
Ovechkin is the leader of this crew, and deserves to be a Captain.
Can’t figure out which of the many discussions regarding Laich this should go, but keep in mind he is currently the NHLPA rep for the Caps. He handles all of the communications and what not in that role. When the Caps were named by that Victor Conte-wannabe from Florida, it was Laich springing into action and contacting all of his teammates and keeping them informed of the latest developments (which, thankfully, there appear to be no more of). So, yes, when people talk about Laich’s leadership, there is something to it.
All that said, Clark isn’t going to, and shouldn’t have to, give up his “C”
As much as I love Ovechkin, I don’t think he should be the captain, as much as he’s a game-breaker all by himself. There are other people who have singlehandedly changed the momentum of a game (see: Bradley, Fedorov) through whatever means, so I don’t consider that alone as reason to hand someone the C. (Even if Brads is 1-0 as captain.) I look at things like the cart incident, the Eastern Motors stuff, and a few other things when I think of Ovi. He’s hilarious and he’s a world-shaker, but he doesn’t always set a good example. As others have observed, he’s also no diplomat.
As RedBirdie mentioned, Laich took on the role of the captain when the steroid rumors turned up, contacting the team, keeping them informed, and speaking to the media about it. He’s the media talker and the diplomat of the two of them.
I’m not in favor of taking the C from Clark if he is healthy, but if he relinquishes it or leaves, I think Laich should get it.
"It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees." - Delores Ibarruri
he’s also no diplomat
I thought he is “The Ambassador”?
by Scott in Shaw on Aug 28, 2009 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Let’s say Clark gives up the Captaincy: do you think he chooses the successor, or do BB and GM choose?
And to whom do they bestow it? I’d personally think it doesn’t go to either AO or Laich, if BB’s choosing.
Poti’d be my guess.
by DrinkingPartner on Aug 28, 2009 3:56 PM EDT reply actions
Let’s say Clark gives up the Captaincy: do you think he chooses the successor, or do BB and GM choose?
I’d guess they’d put it to a team vote.
i can’t see it happening that way – that creates a rift in the team between the candidates’ supporters. BB, GM, or CC would have to choose.
by DrinkingPartner on Aug 28, 2009 3:59 PM EDT up reply actions
I doubt it – it’s pretty common for teams to put it to a vote and the Capitals locker room seems strong enough to withstand some difference of opinion.
And again, I doubt there’d really be much difference of opinion. We’re all know-nothing speculators. My bet is that in the room, it’s obvious.
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Seriously. These guys are not that sensitive. They can hold a vote and move on.
A man must have a code.
“Semin will pout and suck if AO loses the captaincy vote” comment in 3… 2… 1…
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I’d guess they’d put it to a team vote.
Doesn’t strike me as Boudreau’s style
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Aug 28, 2009 6:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Where’d this come from?
If Clark gives it up, they’d either put it to a vote or Bruce/George would decide. My guess is that it wouldn’t be as hard a decision as it appears to be here.
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If Clark gives it up, they’d either put it to a vote or Bruce/George would decide. My guess is that it wouldn’t be as hard a decision as it appears to be here.
Well, duh, ’cause Schultz gets it.
Norris for Captain!
A man must have a code.
by Rob Parker on Aug 28, 2009 4:02 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
Just a hypothetical-
Does it change anyone’s opinion (in either direction) if OV wears the C in the Olympics?
IS PAЯTY NOW
I’d say Mike Green would be pretty pissed to see AO wear the C when he’s honored for Gold.
A man must have a code.
snort!
But my guess is Kovy might get the “C.” Unless they give it to the Old Man out of some sort of respect.
Seems to me the team—having been through so much without him—may have ‘outgrown’ CC’s C. Certainly the moral and practical boost from his return was limited.
I think Laich would wear the C well, and that there’s little point sewing it to the 8 jersey. For one thing, we’ve no reason to believe he wants it. For another, he’s going to lead in his fashion no matter what he’s wearing. Nothing you could add or subtract from Ovechkin’s jersey would alter the power of his example; why not give one of the mortals an honor to live up to?
by redlineblue on Aug 28, 2009 4:09 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I disagree. I think he wants it badly. He’s already the leader on the ice, and he spends time with the kids coming over from Russia because that’s the easiest transition for them. He talks at Refs and he bleeds for the team. I think it’s a badge of honor he wants to earn. And has, in my eyes.
by DrinkingPartner on Aug 28, 2009 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Except for turning it down, Ovechkin hasn’t shown his hand about the C one way or t’other. It’s entirely possible we want him to have it more than he does. After all, living up to the eight letters on the back is harder— and closer to Lord Stanley—than living up to one letter on the front.
Washington Capitals star Alex Ovechkin recently informed the team that he doesn’t feel ready to take over as captain, and yesterday an NHL source confirmed the 20-year-old Russian won’t be wearing the “C” on his jersey this season.
Capitals Coach Glen Hanlon said in July that Ovechkin, the reigning NHL rookie of the year, would be among those considered to replace Jeff Halpern .
“This year I’m not ready because my English isn’t good enough,” Ovechkin told the Canadian Press yesterday in Toronto. “If I need to say something to the team . . . it’s hard. The captain is very important, you must be a leader all the time.”
OOOoooooooooOOooooh.
I remember that, even.
I wonder if he’d refuse today, though.
by DrinkingPartner on Aug 28, 2009 4:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Now obviously this was three years ago but I think the last sentence is key. Ovechkin seems to be interested in doing what he wants to do when he wants to do it – I’m not sure he wants to be the leader all the time.
Whether he “wants” to be a leader is really a moot point. He “is” a leader. He generates his own gravitational field.
IS PAЯTY NOW
For sure. Plus there’s a difference between being a leader by virtue of your spectacular play and being the leader in all situations at all times.
Agreed, but you said it yourself: this was three years ago. In fact, in recent history, outside of penalties, what has he done to make you question his leadership? All of the attacks thus far are about when he was significantly younger and prior to any NHL success. Anyone with anywhere near that emotional level is going to struggle in that situation. And it’s his emotion that I personally prize in his leadership.
Also, and this is entirely an objective observation, Obama went from a Senator giving a speech to President in 4 years. A lot can happen in that time. I think AO’s ready.
by DrinkingPartner on Aug 28, 2009 5:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Actually, more importantly, I think AO thinks he’s ready.
by DrinkingPartner on Aug 28, 2009 5:42 PM EDT up reply actions
I absolutely loathe statements like this. I’d love to hear your insight into how you know what AO thinks.
by Yoshietree on Aug 28, 2009 7:02 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
He thinks what AO thinks. Thinking can be right or wrong.
by red army line on Aug 29, 2009 8:06 AM EDT up reply actions
Let’s step back a moment – these aren’t “attacks,” they’re points.
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I’ve said it several times – it’s not about questioning his leadership, effort, or teamwork in any overall sense, it’s just saying that there might be other guys on the team who are better in those areas, the same way that Alex Semin is a great player even though he’s not the best left wing on his team.
prior to any NHL success
Rookie of the year isn’t considered success?
And it’s his emotion on the ice that I personally prize in his leadership.
None of us know what goes on in the locker room….we only can see what’s reported in the media and what’s on the ice.
Obama went from a Senator giving a speech to President in 4 years.
I’m not going down the politics road, but I fail to see how getting the C and being elected President of the United States are comparable at all.
To whit, I don’t think any of the questions about Ovechkin were ones raised by anything he did before he had pretty significant NHL success. In fact I think the ones brought up most – the ‘hot stick’ thing and the bad penalties – were only present this season.
I’m not questioning Ovie’s ability to be a leader. I just don’t think he’s the best option long term for this team right now. For the record, I voted for Clark, but if long term, I think Laich is that person. For whatever reason, I’m partial to blue collar type captains.
Nothing you could add or subtract from Ovechkin’s jersey would alter the power of his example
Steve Yzerman.
Not that Ovie is a comparable (yet, at least), but Yzerman did set the tone for 4 Stanley Cups and the first dynasty since the Oilers in the 80s (not counting the semi-dynasty of Brodeur’s Devils)
by red army line on Aug 28, 2009 6:02 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t really see your point. Yzerman was a great leader and a great captain, of course. But would the Red Wings have faltered in the semis without Stevie’s C? I doubt it. Similarly, if the Caps win a cup, we’ll know Ovechkin led them there no matter what he’s wearing.
by redlineblue on Aug 29, 2009 10:20 AM EDT up reply actions
Didn’t Yzerman change once he had the C and the Wings kept losing? He started playing good defense. What sort of an example would it be if AO busts his a** off backchecking whenever he can? A really good one.
by red army line on Aug 29, 2009 10:22 AM EDT up reply actions
Point is, Ovie doesn’t really set a shot-blocking defense example. But if he did that as well, I think the team would benefit greatly. And as a bonus all those Ovie-haters lose their one and only valid argument.
by red army line on Aug 29, 2009 10:24 AM EDT up reply actions
I fail to see what your point is.
1) Yzerman was captain for over a decade before the Wings won their first Cup….and it wasn’t until after the team brought in a new coach and players (one being Feds).
2) Are you implying that by giving AO the C he’s going to be a better backchecker? All of a sudden he becomes Captain and he magically becomes a “shot-blocking defense example”.
I don’t want OV ever to become a shot-blocking machine. That’s not his job. Nor do I care what “all those Ovie-haters” say.
I guess my point is that OV does not need to change his game whether he has an A or a C on his jersey. Will he get better defensively? I sure hope so, but it’s a natural learning curve that has nothing to do with extra letters on his jersey. OV is not, and will never be, a blue-collar player like Hunter, Kono, Halpern, Clark or even Laich. That’s just not who he is.
Well said Yosh. I quibble with one line.
OV is not, and will never be, a blue-collar player like Hunter, Kono, Halpern, Clark or even Laich. That’s just not who he is.
Aside from a few high profile lapses that AO haters love to latch on to, AO works as hard as anyone else on the ice. The reason we don’t call him a blue-collar guy is because he has so much damn skill.
A man must have a code.
Well said, and I take your point, but I just disagree. Agreed that he himself doesn’t need to change simply to individually help the team, as he’s already helping the team so much, but him changing could prompt others to play better, not take nights off, backcheck hard, etc, which I think if the young players (especially wingers) learned now, they could create a semi-dynasty (a label I apply to the Devils and the Avs of the 90s-early 2000s).
by red army line on Aug 30, 2009 5:47 AM EDT up reply actions
I just think you’re making a huge assumption that by putting the C on his jersey that he’s all of a sudden going to change his style of play.
Not all of a sudden, but he seems to be completely team first. I don’t doubt he’d make a good captain anyway
by red army line on Aug 30, 2009 12:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Captains and Jerseys
OK, it’s official. If you’re looking for a topic to stir the masses, selecting a captain and favorite jerseys are the crystal meth of blogs. Seriously, almost 300 comments in about three hours and on a Friday afternoon in August no less! I guess hockey really is a 12 month sport.
I’m just loud and proud for AO FOR CAPTAIN (PEACEABLY WHEN CLARK PASSES IT ON).
by DrinkingPartner on Aug 28, 2009 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Give it to 8
I like Clark, and I like what he did a few years ago. He was the necessary leader on a young, green team. Times have changed. The most dynamic player in the NHL is Ovechkin. The most dynamic player on the team is Ovechkin. The one guy that gets along with everyone is Ovechkin. The player that the rest of the guys follows and are emotionally supported by is Ovechkin. The only thing he doesn’t do is give motivational speeches. It appears that in all aspects, he is the soul of the team, the most respected guy in the room. What else does he have to do to be Captain? Lead the league in goals, lead the team in trophies? Let the netural order come together and give him the C, for crying out loud.
I agree that Ovechkin seems to be well liked in the locker room, but I really think his on-ice dominance is something that shouldn’t be at the forefront, or at the very least the argument for Ovechkin as captain shouldn’t be dependent on it. Being a great hockey player is one thing; being a great captain is another and the two don’t necessarily go hand in hand.
I disagree regarding his on ice dominance. Pavel Bure was a great player, but maybe not captain material. Heatley is a great player, maybe not a captain. Ovechkins on ice dominance goes beyond just playing well and putting up points. He’s got the teams respect and the respect of the rest of the league. His on ice prowess riles up the team, as a few teammates already said. He isn’t just leading on the ice by scoring and assisting, its the way he plays, the commitment, the fortitude, the unwavering determination. He leads by example. I understand what you mean when you say it shouldn’t be forefront, but with Ovechkin it is forefront. There’s no facade. Its all linked. I can’t name many others to which this would apply. Clark was great for the team when they needed him, and he should retain an A because he’s a character guy and deserves it. Now, this year, I want the Caps to have a captain that wouldn’t be included in a trade. Langway and Hunter were fixtures when they were here. Laich could be packaged, Clark could be, almost anyone else on the team could be. Ovechkin is the franchise and has the right qualities for captaincy. That’s all I’m saying. If you want your captain to lead by example, he’s it.
Laich could be packaged, but he isnt one of the guys sitting as trade bait right now. That would be a huge loss for this team, so they would have to be getting something great back for that to happen.
and there are a lot more players on this team that would never be packaged other than Ovi. Backstrom is a top 10 point producer who meshes greatly with Ovi. Varly and Nuevy are potentially franchise goalies. Mike Green lost the Norris by a few points. Alzner and Carlson are going to be stud NHL D’s. The depth makes 2 of those guys movable, but there is still a core of players that will most likely never be moved.
by hockeyman33 on Aug 29, 2009 10:05 AM EDT up reply actions
What else does he have to do to be Captain? Lead the league in goals, lead the team in trophies? Let the netural order come together and give him the C, for crying out loud.
This is the part where I recommend scrolling up and reading the link J.P. provided much earlier in this thread.
http://wewintrophies.com/ - 12 major trophies in national and international competitions. Be a part of the next one.
by Bald Pollack on Aug 28, 2009 5:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Glen Hanlon was a great fit as a coach for the rebuilding Caps, but his time ran out and the organization had to move on. Could it be the same for Captains? Could Clark have lost his ability to be a relevant leader to this team over time? In my estimation the four most important on ice events to the current team are: the last two NHL playoff seasons, and the two Calder Cup Finals runs that a lot of the guys had in Hershey. Clark wasn’t there for any of that. Those four playoffs are what really tied the core of this team together, and he wasn’t on the ice for it. I’m still not saying that he should be outright stripped of the C, I’m just curious if anyone else thinks there might be something to this.
A man must have a code.
This wouldn’t even be a discussion if Clark had been healthy these past 2 years.
by DrinkingPartner on Aug 28, 2009 4:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Agreed. But Clark hasn’t been healthy. When this team gets into tough spots what are they going to draw on for confidence? They’ll think about two Finals runs they went on, coming back from 2 separate 1-3 holes, 3 game 7s in the NHL, and winning 11 of 12 games to just get into the playoffs. For the most part Clark wasn’t around for any of that. I don’t know why you had to wait 280+ comments to come to the conclusion that this would all be irrelevant if Clark were healthy. None of this debate happens if he played with the teams for the last two years.
A man must have a code.
I’ve had that thought about Clark being the right captain for a particular time, and perhaps not now. But I think he still deserves to be the guy this season and prove that he’s capable of staying healthy and productive in the lineup for a full season.
For the record, he did play in the Game 7 victory over the Rangers.
by Stephen Pepper on Aug 28, 2009 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions
What, no Mike Green love? There was some in the middle of the season, about how he understands the game, etc.
Still think Clark should retain it until he leaves DC or has another major injury.
What, no Mike Green love?
Now you’re just being silly.
by Yoshietree on Aug 28, 2009 7:00 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Just remembering a thread earlier where it was brought up that he might be captain material. Right now he’s still behind 17, 21, 8, and 19 on my list.
by red army line on Aug 29, 2009 8:08 AM EDT up reply actions
Not only is he behind 17, 21, 8, 19 but pretty much 70% of the rest of the team also. IMO Green just is not Captain material. I don’t even want to see an A on his jersey.
I think that’s a little premature. Dude’s about to turn 24. Let’s see who he becomes before we declare him “not Captain material.”
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Aug 29, 2009 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Fair enough….I can’t think of any rational argument to that…so I’ll just say I accept it :). But I don’t think, at this point, he is Captain material. I would certainly put 17, 21, 8, 3, 19, 39 and even 10 ahead of him….at this point of his career.
I’d put 27 ahead of the last couple on Yosh’s list actually.
http://wewintrophies.com/ - 12 major trophies in national and international competitions. Be a part of the next one.
by Bald Pollack on Aug 29, 2009 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Let’s just keep Clark as captain and have this discussion when he’s no longer a Cap. Changing the captaincy now isn’t worth the trouble.
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Fear the Rebel Polar Bears
I voted for Clark because I’m not persuaded that changing captains is necessary or even advisable. Do we think he’s lost the respect of the players or the course of the last two seasons would have been different if someone else were captain? We’re not in a position to know but if George and Bruce think not, why risk any upheaval in the dressing room? Ovi is a leader on the ice; Laich is articulate and seems temperamentally suited to the position but unless there’s some impetus for change, it seems to me the players and coaches have plenty of other things to focus on. We, on the other hand, are hockey-starved so thankfully Pepper to the rescue with a juicy post.
by Lisita on Aug 28, 2009 7:27 PM EDT reply actions 3 recs
Ovi is a leader on the ice; Laich is articulate and seems temperamentally suited to the position
Well said.
The analogy I draw is a promotion to manager in the white collar workplace. Sure there might be a guy in sales who’s blowing everyone out of the water but that doesn’t mean he’s necessarily the best candidate for a supervisory role because it requires a different skill set.
Because I’ve seen a certain movie way too many times I just imagine a scenario where Clark hands the C over to OV under a lot of public pressure. At the press conference to announce it some young fan who happens to be near GMGM asks “Why is he giving it up? He didn’t do anything wrong.” GMGM’s reply: “Because he’s the captain DC deserves, but not the one it needs right now. So we’ll criticize him because he can take it. Because he’s not our captain. He’s a silent guardian, a watchful protector. A dark knight.”
/dork
//voted for Laich because I didn’t read closely enough
I voted for OV
Here’s why… I’m okay with a fourth liner being the Captain but it should be a guy who everyone knows is going to get a sweater every night…. how can you be the team leader if you’re frequently a healthy scratch….
As far as OV vs Brooks Laich – I like them both but to me OV is the clear team leader and the face of the frachise – if he isn’t already one of the faces of the league.
I don’t buy into the business analogy – it’s Captain of a sports team and the leader on the ice when he’s as big a force as OV is also very much the one the young guys coming onto the team will be looking at.
No doubt Laich should have an A though now that one’s free with Federov’s departure.
by markbona-capsfan99 on Aug 28, 2009 9:36 PM EDT reply actions
When was Clark “frequently a healthy scratch?”
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I didn't bother to go back and compile healthy scratch vs injured - I figure one of you (JP or Yoshi) knows that off the top of your heads...
I know you’ll correct me if I’m wrong and know this off the top of your heads but wasn’t he as healthy as anybody else during the playoffs and he only played in 8 games. Further what was his average TOI in the 18 games he played in during the 2007-2008 regular season, the 32 regular season games he played in during the 2008-2009 reguylar season as well as the 8 playoff games he played in during the 2009 playoffs.
Bottom line injured or otherwise out of a total of 199 possible games to have appeared in during the 2007-2008 and 2008-2009 regular seasons and playoffs, “The Captain” has appeared in only 58 of them (29.1%). I would have thought that last season he would have suggested that until he returned to healthy, regular playing status Federov could and should have worn the “C”.
IMO, To lead as Team Captain, you have to be on the bench during the game; and you have to have enough Ice Time that everyone knows you are owed the respect as a player they need to listen to you.
That’s just my opinion which I think like any other fan I’m entitled to – I obviously don’t agree with the underlying sentiment here that AO either really isn’t a leader or “doesn’t want to be one all the time.” To me when the next Captain of the Capitals is named, now that Federov, a legend to AO, is no longer on the team, he’ll want it; he’ll get it; and like everything else hockey related he has touched in his life, he’ll be great at it. Just my opinion.
BTW this is not any hating of Laich, he can and should be wearing an A this season regardless of whether Clark or AO are Captain. But to me right now it’s not clear Clark has a sweater every night on this team, they are so talented up front.
by markbona-capsfan99 on Aug 29, 2009 6:11 PM EDT up reply actions
For what it’s worth, he was officially listed as injured for all but three of the games he missed during the regular season and two in the playoffs. Of his other scratches (“DND” or “Did Not Dress”), the two in the playoffs were the last two before he got into the lineup (following 35 consecutive “INJ”) and the three in the regular season were a pair of consecutive games just before that streak of “INJ” (though he was listed as healthy scratched for both) and the game immediately preceding the streak.
So two “healthy scratches” that, in retrospect, probably weren’t.
Your points are valid, though, about his on-ice presence, but I don’t think there’s a single person here or said that AO really isn’t a leader or doesn’t want to be all the time.
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I don’t buy into the business analogy – it’s Captain of a sports team and the leader on the ice when he’s as big a force as OV is also very much the one the young guys coming onto the team will be looking at.
On ice doesn’t have anything to do with it – that’s the point. The Captain has duties that go beyond that and just because you’re a leader on the ice doesn’t mean you’re a leader in the locker room the same way a guy being great in sales doesn’t mean he’s a great manager.
In 2006, Alexei Kovalev was the captain of Russia’s Olympic team. I wonder how it’ll be this time around. My bet? Alexei Kovalev.
Fwiw, AO was the captain of Russia’s WJC teams when he was 18 and 19.
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without having read any of the comments…and just one guy’s opinion…but this brooks laich stuff is way out of hand. clark is the team’s captain, and into the future AO is 100% captain material.
i’m not being totally dismissive, btw. i even began to write my own fanpost on the topic, based around these 10 leadership qualities. i think AO exhibits all of them, and i had scrounged up examples of each (including his never failing to praise the fourth liners and hershey call-ups for good plays or good games…the guy literally always says the right thing.) i’ll give the other viewpoints more of a chance after i sleep off this FedEx semi-drunken stuper.
by Natty Bumppo on Aug 29, 2009 1:43 AM EDT up reply actions
Something just occurred to me...
The best athletes…
As far back as grade school, the best athletes were usually the ones who got to pick who was going to be on their team… and, leader or not, the team that picked first got the best athletes who weren’t “captains”. The team that picked last… usually got me. :-p
This pattern continued through middle (junior high) school, high school, and into college.
My point is that with this as an integral part of our upbringing, many of us expect as a given that the best athlete will be the team captain.
Yes, Ovechkin has been acting like captain for the last year while Clark was out hurt. But it does not necessarily follow that he’d be the best leader off the ice. To the contrary, he’s a bit of a wild child.
I said Laich based on the same factor others have mentioned – that the question wasn’t asked in a way that implied, “should the Caps strip Clark of his captaincy?”
Given that the missing implication appears to have been meant, I will state that Clark should remain captain as long as he wants it.
>Yzerman was a center and Ovechkin’s a wing. The backchecking “issue” about 8’s play is mostly manufactured. As for shot-blocking, hell’s bells. Remember that glove save he made that lagged his game for weeks? Do you really want a Joe Shlabotnik slapshot to cost us 20 games of Ovechkin? I don’t, and apparently neither does BB.
Couldn’t care less, btw, what the 8haters say. If you watch what’s done to him in a typical shift you’d never ever call him dirty; if you watch the wings and the system you’d find little enough to criticize in his D.
by redlineblue on Aug 29, 2009 10:33 AM EDT up reply actions
I said Laich based on the same factor others have mentioned – that the question wasn’t asked in a way that implied, "should the Caps strip Clark of his captaincy?"
I have to disagree. I think the “is it time for the franchise to do what many believe must be its destiny: to officially designate Alex Ovechkin, the first repeat winner of the Hart Memorial Trophy in over a decade, as team captain? Or maybe even today’s featured Cap, the pride of Wawota, SK?” establishes that, especially in the context of discussion Marleau’s demotion. But I also think those are clearly different questions and probably have different answers.
My point is that with this as an integral part of our upbringing, many of us expect as a given that the best athlete will be the team captain.
I could not agree more.
Curious
It seems that those voting for Laich are voting for him because he’s good with the media, as if that somehow translates into leadership. I can’t think of a worse reason to give someone a letter.
Clark is the captain. Poti and Ovechkin are the A’s. Not much to think about, here.
Pepper, good to see you writing again. Always a treat.
I think it’s more that we see their personalities through their interactions with the media (how else would we know anything about them?) and we think Laich has the right personality based on that.
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Aug 29, 2009 10:18 AM EDT up reply actions
Laich is a good interview. That doesn’t make him a good leader.
Confusing the two is tragic, at best.
see my post above about Laich’s role as NHLPA rep and the responsibilities of that. I think Laich is the future C. I think Clark should remain in his position for the foreseeable future with the team.
…and being a player representative is in no way an indicator for becoming a captain. yes i realize redbirdie is using the fact to point out his leadership abilities, but it could just as easily show his unlikeliness to ever be named captain. the player rep title is an indicator of your talents outside the room. last year’s player reps per wikipedia (i think i see three captains on the list, maybe four?):
George Parros – Anaheim Ducks
Andrew Ference – Boston Bruins
Andrew Peters – Buffalo Sabres
Robyn Regehr – Calgary Flames
Eric Staal – Carolina Hurricanes
Duncan Keith – Chicago Blackhawks
Vactant – Colorado Avalanche
Manny Malhotra – Columbus Blue Jackets
Stephane Robidas – Dallas Stars
Chris Chelios – Detroit Red Wings
Shawn Horcoff – Edmonton Oilers
Gregory Campbell – Florida Panthers
Kyle Calder – Los Angeles Kings
Nick Schultz – Minnesota Wild
Greg de Vries – Nashville Predators
Patrik Elias – New Jersey Devils
Andy Sutton – New York Islanders
Stephen Valiquette – New York Rangers
Chris Phillips – Ottawa Senators
Scott Hartnell – Philadelphia Flyers
Shane Doan – Phoenix Coyotes
Matt Cooke – Pittsburgh Penguins
Andy McDonald – St. Louis Blues
Patrick Marleau – San Jose Sharks
Vincent Lecavalier – Tampa Bay Lightning
Matt Stajan – Toronto Maple Leafs
Rob Davison – Vancouver Canucks
Brian Pothier – Washington Capitals
by Natty Bumppo on Aug 30, 2009 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Exactly...
see my post above about Laich’s role as NHLPA rep and the responsibilities of that
A team’s NHLPA rep is everybody’s friend. As far as AO being “a bit of a wild child” as noted in other posts vs. Laich “having the right personality” – who’s known as the team’s real “ladies man” AO or Laich – hint, per comments by other players it isn’t AO… and who do younger palyers, especially the Europeans talk about as exteding them a warm welcome, a place to stay and guidance – I’ve never heard Laic mentioned in that context – I have heard AO, Federov and Nylander … hey let’s make Nylander … Captain since it’s really apparently all about “off ice leadership” in some peoples minds if for some reason (like Salary Cap Space) – Clark gets traded and Nyls stays in DC this whole season…yeah that’s it…
by markbona-capsfan99 on Aug 29, 2009 6:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Sorry I still haven’t figured out how to use the block quote keys…perhaps that should DQ me from the rest of this thread..
by markbona-capsfan99 on Aug 29, 2009 6:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Repeatedly confusing what people are saying in this thread with the strawman “Laich should be captain because he is a good interview” is totally unfair.
If you really think that’s what we’re saying, then I don’t know where to go from here. I already tried to explain once why that’s not what we’re saying. I’ll try again:
Laich strikes me as having what I consider a “captain personality.” I base that on what I’ve heard him say in interviews, because that’s the only information I have about him as a person. If I knew him personally, I might have better insight. But basically, all anyone here has to go with is the interviews the players give. We can either base what we think on the interviews folks give, or we can throw up our hands and say “what goes on in The Room stays there, and nobody really knows what kind of leaders these guys will make.”
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Aug 29, 2009 1:46 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Best post on this thread yet
Once again Gould Old Days nails it – we’re all just flapping our gums and really have no idea what will happen if and when it’s decided the Caps need a new Captain…
by markbona-capsfan99 on Aug 29, 2009 6:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Laich is a good interview. That doesn’t make him a good leader.
I think it’s a stretch to say people are saying ’Laich’s a good interview therefor he’s a good leader’. To me it’s much more of ‘Laich has consistently shown personality traits in interviews that are associated with leadership qualities, ergo there’s reason to believe he has leadership qualities’.
i would never dispute laich’s leadership traits (although i do echo sentiments above that go “we really have no idea about the team dynamic and these are all just educated guesses”).
i dispute the idea that ovechkin is not a player the team follows both on and off the ice. from what we’ve seen, AO at times hangs with bradley and green and steckel, so i don’t buy that he divides the locker room between russians and non-russians. from what we’ve seen, AO is every bit as willing to stay afterwards answering question after question for outlet after outlet, even if he’s answered them 1,000 times before. from what we’ve seen, AO is the type of player that on the ice (and yes, it matters, even as only one factor) can change the momentum of a game and get teammates to believe in themselves (rangers game mid-season last year + the entire playoffs + countless other examples). from what we’ve seen, AO is the first to praise the 3rd- and 4th-liners in interviews, and the first to jump into their arms after goals. AO is the player to go retrieve the scored puck from the referee so that he can bring it to the bench and sloan/alzner/whoever can save the puck into eternity.
i would never make a case for AO by bringing down brooks laich. but AO has shown a maturity to go along with his moxy whenever it comes to hockey. (if you want to bring non-hockey examples into the mix, then so be it, but i see AO as “fun-loving,” not immature.) BB has always maintained that he is coachable. AO is also on the ice more than anyone, and in the best position to lead from the coach or to the refs. AO appears to be the perfect heir, and while we all love laich, i think there needs to be a reason not to give the C to the best player in the league/ face-of-your-franchise superstar. AO has more obligations on the ice and off the ice than anyone, and the C seems like a just reward.
by Natty Bumppo on Aug 30, 2009 2:08 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
>>i think there needs to be a reason not to give the C to the best player in the league/ face-of-your-franchise superstar.
Fair enough. Does “he might not want it” suffice?
sure, if AO says “i don’t want it” again, that’s a reason. here’s betting he won’t.
by Natty Bumppo on Aug 31, 2009 1:59 AM EDT up reply actions
i would never make a case for AO by bringing down brooks laich.
i think there needs to be a reason not to give the C to the best player in the league/ face-of-your-franchise superstar.
If it’s unfair to bring up criticism of one guy when you’re discussing the issue but you need a reason to not give Ovechkin the captaincy, doesn’t that then make it impossible to argue against him?
I don’t think I, or anyone else, is trying to bring Ovechkin down. No one’s downplaying his talent on the ice, the fact that he is well-liked in the locker room, or his personality. Just wondering whether there’s a better option for this one specific role.
If it’s unfair to bring up criticism of one guy when you’re discussing the issue but you need a reason to not give Ovechkin the captaincy, doesn’t that then make it impossible to argue against him?
i can’t pinpoint anything laich does better than ovechkin re: my ten leadership qualities (vision, integrity, dedication, magnanimity, humility, openness, creativity, assertiveness, sense of humor)….okay, well maybe humility, but AO’s edge in assertiveness should make up for it.
fair to say the tiebreaker between two great leaders “in the room” should be the leader on the ice? you can argue against AO all you want, but i never said it was “unfair” to bring down either player. your words. i said i didn’t see a need to bring down laich in order to identify our multiple hart trophy winner (who is in most ways also a leader) as my preferred future caps captain.
by Natty Bumppo on Aug 31, 2009 11:30 AM EDT up reply actions
your “unfair” = my “not necessary” in the case of laich, btw.
i believe the C is ovechkin’s to win or to lose. in fact the very opposite of unfair, i believe it’s more the analysis of ovechkin’s leadership ability than laich’s leadership ability that will decide between the two. AO should absolutely be scrutinized, i just happen to think he comes up roses.
by Natty Bumppo on Aug 31, 2009 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions
A decent read from back in May:
“Our room, for the most part, is pretty quiet,” Caps forward Brooks Laich said. “We aren’t a bunch of guys that have to give a rah-rah speech. We don’t need a vocal leader. We know what we have to do on the ice. It’s 20 leaders in the locker room.”
A natural voice would be Alex Ovechkin. He’s the team’s future captain but not yet the kind of player who will talk tactics between periods.
“I haven’t seen it,” Boudreau said. “The coaches aren’t in the room a lot but [I haven’t seen Ovechkin] stand up and say something profound other than cheering and saying, ’Let’s go guys. Let’s win.’ I haven’t seen him walk around and say, ‘Guys, this is what we have to do,’ unless he’s echoing my statements.”
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and i get from this exactly what o’halloran writes: AO is not the type of player who talks tactics between periods.
we have seen him talk tactics on the bench and on the ice via television microphone (“backy, next time if you’re out wide i can come back for the puck,” “sasha, if keep going to the net there i can give it back to you”). maybe he sees his role as not stepping on the coach’s toes between periods? certainly, echoing the coach is exactly what you’d want in a captain…right?
by Natty Bumppo on Aug 30, 2009 2:15 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m not sure why the tactics stuff matters. Captains aren’t coaches. Insofar as they give any coaching direction to anyone else it had better be within the parameters already set forth by the coach. Of course it helps to have a smart Captain, but that’s the same for any player.
I’d look back to the earlier link J.P. posted. Look at what Clark does for the team and ask who you think would be more willing/better at doing that? Who is going to be the welcome committee for FA signees? Who is going to have young players over for Christmas? Who is going to organize team events?
A man must have a code.
Who is going to be the welcome committee for FA signees? Who is going to have young players over for Christmas? Who is going to organize team events?
AO has done this as much as laich has. AO has had three different players stay at his home in arlington, IIRC. AO has personally called every free agent signee (via interviews with BMo and knuble). with knuble, AO called him from russia at like 5am local time. again…laich fits the bill, i’m sure, but so does AO.
by Natty Bumppo on Aug 30, 2009 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions
plus AO has a bigger home for those christmas parties..
by Natty Bumppo on Aug 30, 2009 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t disagree with any of that stuff. I was posing what I see as the relevant question, not really offering an argument. AO has definitely been willing to help out other young guys, and I think he would be more than willing to host young guys (North American and European) if he had the C. But I also recognize that AO likes to spend most of his summer in Russia and it would be a bigger pain for him to come back early to be the welcoming committee than it would be for a guy like Brooks Laich. Calling a FA is one thing, being there to help them get settled in town is another. I’m still torn though right now I think Laich is probably a better choice. Really I just hope Clark stays healthy and makes it all moot for two more years at which time I think AO will be ready to take on all the responsibilities of a C.
A man must have a code.
This was the quote from ShaMo after the "Miracle on Seventh Ave" game back in Dec.
"Alex, it’s amazing what he can do. He’s a great leader on the ice. He sparks the team. He believes, so we believe."
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